Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. As you can probably hear, I'm fighting a pretty bad cold right now, so please pardon the sound of my voice, but I could not pass up the opportunity to sit down with one of the world's best golfers, Roy McElroy, and the timing couldn't be better because today is round one of the PGA Championship at Valhalla Golf Club, right here in my hometown of Louisville, Kentucky. My Valhalla partners and I have been working hard for this moment, and I can't wait for you to see this beautiful course and the one-of-a-kind golf experience you can only find here in Kentucky. And guess what? Last time Valhalla hosted the PGA Championship was back in 2014 when the winner was, you guessed it, none other than Roy McElroy. I loved having a chance to talk with him ahead of the tournament, and I really enjoyed hearing him talk about why it's so important to keep an open mind if you want to lead well. So let's jump in. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Roy McElroy, and again, I apologize for the cold. Roy, it's great to have you on the show. Good to be back. Glad that we could make it happen. Yeah, me too. The last time the PGA Championship was hosted at Valhalla 10 years ago, you won . I remember rooting for you very madly, and what's a behind-the-scenes story from the 2014 PGA that maybe you haven't told before? I'd say the big thing for me about that PGA Championship was how hard Sunday morning was. You're sleeping on the lead overnight, and then you get this weather delay that comes in, and you don't tee off until maybe two hours after your tea time was supposed to be. So I think just waiting around for those all that extra time, and you've got all this anxious energy, and you just want to get out there and try to get this thing, basically try to get it over and done with, and that was the hardest part of the week. The golf was almost like the easy part. The hard part was trying to keep my mind quiet on Sunday morning when I had to wait those extra couple hours to go out and play. You know, I think all leaders have that as a challenge from time to time. What do you do when you have that anxiety creep in? I mean, how do you get the quiet mind? Sort of counterintuitive, but I always try to imagine the worst-case scenario. Like on the golf course, okay, well, you know, if you're worried about the first tee shot, okay, if you hit it in the trees. What are you going to do? You're going to walk up to your ball. You're going to try to find a gap in the trees and you're going to figure it out. You trust that you've done this so many times before. You fall back on all those experiences that you've had before. And it's a counterintuitive way to look at it. But I think when you imagine the worst-case scenario, and you come out of that and you think, well, that worst-case scenario actually wouldn't be so bad because I'd figure it out and I'd make a different decision. And then I'd move forward. I think that gives you a level of comfort instead of just ruminating in your head the whole time. Well, one thing for sure, Roy, in 2014, you figured things out. Whatever came your way, whatever challenge you had, you figured out how to win, even if it was finishing in the dark almost, you know, but you really made it happen . And one of the things that I really find interesting about what you've been going through is leaders is that you've been on the board of the PGA Tour and you've seen up close and personal the rivalry of the PGA and live and all the developments. I'm really curious as to what you take away as you step back and reflect, because you are a person that always steps back and reflects on things and takes in new information. What do you take as the main leadership lessons from that situation that any leader could learn from? I think the one thing that I have learned through this whole process is to be a little more open-minded. I think once you have a position and you dig your heels in, it's very hard to get out of that position, right? So I learned because I was a little bit that way too. I think you have to be open-minded. I think you have to be able to see things from the other side. You have to be able to put a foot on the other shoe and see if, you know, if there's any areas of common interest there, okay, is there, yes, we disagree on a lot of things, but is there some things that we agree on and that's a good starting point to try to figure out a resolution. So I think if some of us were a little more open-minded through all this, I think a lot of the PN could have been avoided and we wouldn't be in the position that we're in, but that's with the luxury of hindsight. You know, we're now trying to do it, but more open-minded and trying to put it all back together. But I think once you take a position and you're set that sort of set in stone for you, it's very hard to reverse out of that if the situation requires it. I've got to give you a lot of credit because you have evolved. I mean, you came out and you said, "I hate live." I was something to that extent. And now you seem to have softened your view. What's it take for you as a leader to change your mind on something? I think being able to change your mind is one of the greatest things in the human experience, because if you can't change your mind based on new information, then that's not a great place to start from. So I think for me, being able to change my mind on this, based on new information and trying to be a little more open-minded and trying to talk to people from the other side, yeah, of course, that you're going to hear both arguments and both sides and you're going to make your mind up and sort of see where you land. But I feel like I've gotten a little bit of criticism for changing my mind, but I actually view being able to change your mind as a good thing. I don't think it's flip-flopping. I don't think it's a bad thing. I truly think someone that's able to change their mind based on new information is an open-minded person. I couldn't agree with you more. And one of the things that I've had to open up my mind to is live because I'm a golf purist, I mean, turning on the television and watching live with the music and guys out there playing shotgun star and all this kind of good stuff. But I started watching it a little bit because John Romsen, good buddy of mine, he went to live so I want to follow him. And I'm just curious. I think everybody has to pay attention to competition. When you look at what lives do you, just from a competitive standpoint, if you 're the PGA tour, what's something that the PGA might be able to learn from live? I think tapping into a different demographic, you talk about being a golf pur ist and a traditionalist and I think that's the PGA tour appeals to that type of golf fan , where live appeals to a completely different demographic. And the average age of a golf year in the United States is over 60 years old. So how can you tap into this younger demographic where hopefully you're going to watch golf for the remainder of their life? So being a little more forward-thinking and having a little more vision. I think is something that lives have done pretty well. I still don't, 54 holes, shock on starts, the team element. There's a few things to me that they haven't quite got right, but I don't know if that's completely their fault. They had to launch at some point and they launched with a product that probably wasn't fully thought out, but they had to go with it. They've gained a little traction. I wouldn't say they've gained a lot of traction, but they've definitely been a disruptor in the game of golf. And sometimes things need to shake up, and if anything, I think it was a bit of a wake-up call for the PGA tour to maybe focus a little bit more on the future. And there's so many in-built advantages that the PGA tour has over live in terms of the commercial contracts and media rights deals. And there's just so many things that they have that live don't. But at the end of the day, all of that stuff goes away. The commercial end of it and sponsorship deals and media rights, if people aren 't willing to watch and engage with the product that you're putting out there. And I think we've seen this year that, yeah, live has maybe taken away a little bit of market share from the PGA tour, even though the PGA tour is still the most watched golf platform in the world. But I think the fan consensus and a lot of people that I talked to would much rather all the best players be together again. The PGA tour players have stayed, and that's not really not our fault, but at the same time, I don't think we can start playing the blame game here. I think we just need to see the bigger picture and try to do what's best for the game of golf. I'm not that close to it, so I really don't have a personal answer to this, but I golf with people all the time. You know, people have a hell of a time figuring out what a live PGA or PGA live merger would really look like. Hypothetically, what would it look like because we all want to see the best players in the world play each other? Absolutely. I would say the core golf season wouldn't look much different, so you've got the four major championships in the bigger individual tournaments. But I think there is a way, so Tiger, myself, and Mike McCarley funded TGL a couple of years ago that's going to launch in January of 2025. That's a fun, forward thinking team type of league that, you know, engulf and, you know, will hopefully provide the viewer a different sort of experience of how to watch golf. And it's going to be very cool, very much technology forward, you know, massive to disservice to call it a simulator. It's, you know, you're hitting balls into this iMac screen. You know, it's a made for TV event, so it's going to be a very different way to consume golf. But I think if there's a way to, we have TGL, which is, you know, purely PGA to our players, but if there's a way to, I don't know if merge the businesses is the right word , if you try to expand team golf and try to make it like this bigger entity so that you maybe have TGL can have some of the live guys come over and play with their teams and then maybe live more on the back end of the year, like post the summer sort of going into the fall. You know, maybe have some of the TGL teams start to play and some of the live type tournaments. It's a bridge. I don't know if that would be the permanent solution, but at least it's something where because it seems like the team element is something that is very important for the live people. So if you can try to incorporate more of that team golf within the entire calendar year, that's sort of like a win for them. And then also if you can, you know, try to put everything back together a little bit and have, you know, it would be great for John Ram to be here this week in Charlotte or, you know, Bryson to be at the Arnold Palmer Invitational because he's won there before Com Smith to be at the players championship because he lives there and he's won there. You know, I think guys made those decisions to not be able to take a part of those, which is fine. But at the same time, I think those tournaments would benefit from having those guys there. So it's a long road. I don't think we're really going to see anything materialized until at least 20 26. But I know that people are putting their heads together and trying to figure this out. So there's hope. And some common ground it sounds like and some common sense might get us there, you know, hopefully for the world of golf that's in the cards. You know, Roy, I met you a little over 10 years ago. One of the things that really piqued my interest was your interest in me, the fact that you peppered me with all kinds of questions. And it was clear to me that you're really a very active learner. How do you go about, you know, learning your business acumen? Because I'd like you to just share some of the interests you have outside of golf, which is really considerable. Now some of them are golf related, but you've really line extended yourself and moved into other businesses. Tell us about what you're into. I would say that, you know, the first part about being an active learner, I would say that I didn't pick that up until probably my early 20s. I wasn't much of a student. I wasn't too interested in school. But I think as I as I traveled the world, and I think traveling the world is a wonderful education. You learn so much about yourself, you learn so much about other people and different cultures and how other people live and their beliefs. And I think traveling is such a great education in itself. But you know, spending time with people like you and you know, especially in the golf world, golf and business is so linked and it always has been. And I think that I've not always had an interest, but I think just seeing the similarities as well and being a competitive person and getting into maybe the business side of things is a different side of my competitiveness that I can bring out. What I really got interested in, it's within the golf world, but it's how can we bring the game of golf into the 21st century? So I've invested in quite a few businesses that are looking towards the future and okay, how do people consume content? How are they going to watch golf moving forward? Well, you know, there's more golf shots hit, not on golf courses anymore, so top golf and pop stroke and pottery and simulator golf. So how can we take advantage of that? How can we get more people into that? That's an unintimidating way to introduce people to the game of golf, which is wonderful. And then from there, if they want to go and take a lesson with their local PGA pro, they can and get into it deeper. So that's been a big area of focus for us because golf is so rooted in its history and its traditions, which is wonderful. But at the same time, it has to move into the 21st century. So that's been a big, big driver for me. And then I think from there, just in the investing world and seeing opportunities and yeah, trying to learn from people that I either play pro arms with or I learn from people that I've gotten to know just within the golf world. And that's a passion of mine. It's a passion to try to look forward and see if there's a company that's doing really interesting things and whether that's an opportunity that you should take advantage of. And I think the one thing that I'm grateful for is that I can certainly invest my money in certain companies or in certain things. But I think I've got enough of a platform to try to influence those investments in some way as well. So more of an active investor rather than a possible. It's been an education. It still is an education. Golf is my full time job and I want to make sure that the main thing stays the main thing. I think I'm a more well-rounded person by having these other interests in my life. I like to get into how people make decisions. And you did kind of get out of golf on this one. Tell me about how you made the decision to get involved in Formula One. Yeah. So I've always been a fan of Formula One, but it was never something that I thought that I would get into from an investment standpoint. It's a pretty expensive sport. When I invest, I also want to see who's investing in the CM thing. So I invested in the Alpine Formula One team and Ryan Reynolds and his partner Rob McElhenny, who they have their own fund called Maximum Effort. They were investing in the CM Ron as I was. And I thought that was super interesting because I watched what they've done with Raxham and they've turned a relatively obscure British soccer team into one of the most well-known sports teams in the world. And I think they've got such a great platform and they can amplify what they do so much. And I thought to go invest with them would be a really great opportunity and might provide some more opportunities down the road. So the Alpine thing in getting into Formula One was exciting as a fan, but also who I was investing with was really important. So you have all these business interests, which means you're bringing on a lot of people issues. A lot of people challenges, either people that you pay as consultants or people that you bring on your team directly. How do you think about the people you have to lead? I always try to say that whoever is working on my behalf, you're now an extension of me. And I want you to try to act accordingly on whatever that means. But I think for me, I think I'm a pretty kind person and I like to lead with kindness and encouragement. And I wouldn't ask anyone to lead with an iron fist unless they really, really feel like they have to, but definitely compassion. I think that's trying to be compassionate, trying to see things from the other side at times and just trying to have an open mind. I think is a great way to either lead yourself or if you have to ask people to lead for you, I think that's a good way to do it. Now your catty, Harry Diamond, you've had for quite a few years now and you have a great relationship. He's one of your best friends, if not your best friend. What advice can you give leaders on making business relationships work with close friends? Yeah, it's difficult. And for me, I have a lot of those in my life where it's either a friend has become someone that I work with or someone that I work with has become a very close friend. So I do have quite a lot of those relationships in my world. And the one great thing about it is I know that I can be so open and honest with Harry and he's not going to get upset or he's not going to take it the wrong way and he can be so open and honest with me and he feels exactly the same way. So I think open honest communication, not being afraid to say the hard thing sometimes, that's a level of comfort that you need with anyone that you work with or any relationship you have in your life. But especially when you've got that dynamic where you've got a very good friend that also is working with you in some way, being open, being honest, having clear communication at all times, not keeping anything to yourself, just letting it all out there. Even if it's something I don't want to hear, I appreciate that someone tells me that because for someone in a position where they're working for me, it's hard to say the truth sometimes. And if they think that I don't want to hear it, it's hard to say that. But I would much rather they did because they're being open and honest and we 'll always be able to have a conversation and figure it out. I know you and Harry met when you were kids growing up in Northern Ireland. So I want to take you back to that period of your life. Is there a story from your childhood that has really shaped the kind of leader that you are today? So at Hollywood Golf Club where Harry and I grew up, Harry's five years older than me, just under five years older than me. So we met in the summer of 1996. I was seven years old, the time he was 11 or 12. I was always the youngest kid at Hollywood Golf Club. So I think by being the youngest and having to try to prove myself all the time , that sort of shaped my leadership style in terms of like trying to lead by example and trying to prove myself over and over again. That's the mindset that I always try to take with all things in my life. It's almost like what you did yesterday is wonderful and it's great. And if you've had success, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to have success moving forward. So keeping on proving yourself, keeping on trying to master your craft, keeping on trying to lead by example. I think by being the youngest a lot in my early years, I think that really shaped how my mindset is when it comes to that. You know, I've had the great fortune to get to know your father, Jerry, and one of the clubs that we're in and he's got to be probably the most popular member. I mean, everybody loves playing with him. So I was curious, you know, what do you do pick up with him as your father that you've really tried to apply to your own life? Positivity. He is the most positive person on earth. He can see a silver lining in anything. He is just the eternal optimist. And I think that and I do get that from my dad a lot. I don't think you should be wearing rose-colored glasses all the time with everything that you do in life. But my dad is such a great example of seeing the good in everyone and seeing the good in everything. And that's a wonderful trait to have. And I was so lucky as a child to be able to grow up in a household and an environment like that where it was positivity and happiness over everything else. I'm obviously very grateful for that. I was surprised when I learned this when we met. But you didn't finish high school and you never went to college. And where I just wrote this new book called How Leaders Learn. And you mentioned you learned a lot from your international travel, which really piqued your interest in a lot of areas. What's one of the biggest leadership lessons that you've picked up either from your travels or by working with other people? Yeah, I think working with other people or listening to other people. I remember listening to one of your podcasts with Tom Brady a couple of years ago and I'm having my notebook beside me and writing down all these different things that Tom was saying to you about leadership and especially in his position as a quarterback, trying to get everyone to work together. I've still got those notes from that podcast that I've listened to. But I think it's all it's seeking out excellence. It's seeking out people that are the best at what they do. I'm learning from them. You don't have to know them. There's a lot of books out there. There's a lot of podcasts. There's a lot of everything. We have so much at our fingertips and we have access to so much. Your mentors don't have to be people that you know. And I think that's the one thing that I've realized. If I want to go and listen to an interview with Warren Buffett, I can. If I want to go and listen to the podcast with Tom Brady, if I want to go and listen or read something about a person that's a leader in another industry, you can go and do that. So that one of the biggest lessons and one of the easiest ways to learn, you don't have to take everything that they say. But if there's one or two little tidbits that really resonate with you, then you know, it makes the R2 of listening to something. It makes it so worthwhile. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Roy McRoy in just a moment. Roy mentioned taking notes as he listened to my conversation with Tom Brady. Well those same leadership insights Roy heard are waiting for you, including this one about Tom's three C's of communication. Clear current communication. Be really clear about what it is and let's be really current about what we're talking about and let's talk. And I think if we work on those things, then you know, I don't want to have to guess all the time what you're thinking. You know, we can't solve problems. If you're thinking one thing or I'm just thinking another word, I really find it difficult for people who create expectations without telling the other person. You know, well this is what, you know, this is what I was expecting them to do, but they never did it. I'm like, well, did you ever tell them? Well, no, well, I mean, they should know. I'm like, get that out of here. I don't want to hear that. You know, now I can hold you accountable. If I told you, hey, do this or I'm expecting this to happen, a particular situation. If you don't do that situation or that what I said, we're going to have a talk. But if I don't ever tell you what I want, then how can I hold you accountable for that? So CCC is really important on a personal level, but it's certainly really important in a professional environment as well. So grab a pen and paper and just like Roy, go and listen to the interview with Tom Brady, episode 53 here on How Leaders Lead. As I understand it, Roy, you were ambitious from the very beginning and you actually set the goal when you were seven years old and said you want to be the number one golfer in the world. And then you finally achieved that year, right? Number one in the world. You know, what was that like when you hit that big goal? I caught myself very lucky that I'm in such a fortunate position that I can go out and chase my dreams basically every day. And I don't know if everyone in the world can say that. So I'm obviously very grateful for that, but it was a dream come true. It was a dream I had from when I was a little boy growing up in Northern Ireland, in Hollywood, in the town of 12,000 people, the PGA Tour and Tiger Woods and all those guys were a world away from where I grew up. So to be able to achieve that at 22 years of age, to have Tiger Woods be the one that finished second to me in that tournament, but I did get to world number one. I mean, I couldn't have scripted it any better. It was a dream come true. And luckily I've been able to get to the peak of world golf a few times, but probably nothing will compare to that first time when, and it's the same thing. That's for the first time you get to world number one or the first major you win or it's the, you know, those firsts are just so, they're so incredible and they're so satisfying, but they're also so motivating. It's like, okay, well, I've done this and I want to do it again. What did that experience teach you about goal setting? My attitude towards goal setting is a little different. I think people, you can make these grand, ambitious plans, but if you don't have a structure or a system to work within, someone said once that you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. So if you have good systems in place, so for me, that would be, okay, I want to be the best player in the world or I want to win the Masters one day. For example, okay, that's great, but how do you get there? And it's all to do. What does a practice they look like for me? Okay, well, I want to be in the gym for two hours and I want to work in my short game for this amount of time and I want to do this and I want to do that. So my goals start to become more process driven rather than result driven. So if I can make my goals about the process and I can check the boxes while I'm practicing and while I'm doing the stuff I need to do, then hopefully one day the results should just take care of itself. That's sort of my attitude towards goal setting. But you need to set the big goal to start, obviously, but then it's breaking it down into these little sections that I think is the real important stuff. I'll tell you one thing about golf and I don't care what level you're at. It's hard to win. I mean, it is really hard to win. You're competing against so many people and so many things can go right or wrong. And success is obviously a wonderful teacher, but so can failure be. I mean, what's the biggest lessons that you've learned from failure and it happens to us all? And so appreciative of the failures that I've had or the opportunities. They're failures because you want to do something and you don't quite do it, but they're opportunities to learn. And you certainly learn more in your failures than you do in your wins. You reflect a little bit more on your failures too and you try to degrease some learning from them. And that's the one thing that I really pride myself on. My whole career is my resilience. If I have a failure, if I have a bad week, I reflect on it. I think about what I could do better and then I get back to work. And the one great thing about golf too is there's so many tournaments. There's always the next week. There's always an opportunity to get back on the horse and do it again. So that's the lucky thing about sailing in golf. There's always the next week. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more on that. Your weeks are a lot better to mind though. One of the things I just love watching is the Ryder Cup. And I love the passion and the spirit that you personally have for the Ryder Cup. I mean, you almost look like you're having an out of body experience and you love it so much. If you had to wrap it up, you know, why is it so damn special? You're playing for a purpose bigger than yourself. That's why it's so special. You're playing for your teammates. You're playing for your captain, your vice-copterns. You're playing for us, for Europeans. You're playing for a continent, right? You're playing for a lot of different people, which is a much different experience than what golfers usually do weekend week out when we're really just playing for ourselves, or maybe for our team or a family or whatever it is. So I think having that purpose that's beyond yourself is a huge motivator. And then I also think the Ryder Cup is the one competition that I think that I 've learned more about leadership than anything else. Being responsible for being that sort of talisman for the European team and trying to lead by example and trying to set the tone and trying to bring the rookies along when I can. And just all that is, I love that stuff. I, you know, the Ryder Cup is, you know, I've played in seven of them. I wish I really hope I play in seven more. I don't know if seven is achievable, but it is, it's the best experience you can have as a professional golfer. It's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And you are the leader of the team or certainly one of the key leaders of the team and no question about that, but you weren't a oyster leader. I mean, you started out as a rookie, you know, what's it been like to transition in that experience from being a team player, individual contributors to now where you kind of assume that leadership mantle. I had great examples along the way. You know, whenever I was a rookie, there was some great leaders in that team that had played in a lot of Ryder Cups and I, I learned by their example. And you know, that was a big thing for me. So yeah, as I said before, you need, you need mentors, you need, you need people to guide you along the way. And I was very lucky to be a part of a European team that, that had some of those people on it and had the experience so that I could learn from them a little bit. And then when it was my turn to step into that leadership role, you know, I was maybe a little, a little more ready than I would have been if I didn't have their example. You know, speaking of leadership, Luke Donald seemed to be the ideal captain for the European team. You know, what did you learn from him that you'll take forward when you become captain? Because you will be a captain someday for sure. I mean, what would you say would be the single biggest thing that you'd want to take forward for what he did? The one thing about Luke was his demeanor, his tone, just his whole attitude throughout the week never changed. You could have looked at Luke that week and you wouldn't have known if we were five points up or if we were five points down. And I think that's the sort of, you know, steady, you know, sort of rock-like leadership that, you know, if you're a team and you're looking at your captain and he looks like that all the time, like that just gives you so much confidence that like he, whether he thinks he knows what he's doing, but he looked like he knew what he was doing, right? You know, he was, he just had this air of complete confidence and comfort and every time a player looked at Luke in Rome, they just got the sense that no matter what happens, this guy's got everything under control. And that is, you know, to have a leader like that is amazing. Yeah, I really loved watching Luke and action myself. I loved how he gave his opening speech in Italian and I loved reading about how he did all these things in your team room to showcase your family and the history of the Ryder Cup, which really pumped all you guys up. What I'd like to do now is really shift gears and I mean in a big-time way, you know, and I think you might find this a real strange one, but explain to me, how do you use juggling to make you a better golfer? How it was explained to me was juggling is a very good way to sort of activate the gray matter in your brain. So it's almost like you get into this trance-like meditative state, but also having this sort of focus at the same time and doing something with like your motor skills. I think juggling, there's a lot that goes on in your brain and it activates a lot of different parts of your brain. And that was the reason that it was suggested to me that I should take up juggling. Are you pretty good at it? I'm pretty good at it. Yeah, I've gotten pretty good where I still, I can't quite get five. I can do three and I can do four. And what do you juggle? Just juggling balls or golf balls or, you know, whatever. I haven't went to knives or fire or anything like that. Just if you can do it for a couple of minutes, I feel like it resets your mental state a little bit. Now, explain to me why you try to keep your mouth closed during high-pressure situations. Yeah, I'm very much a, a mouth breather. This is just the curiosity of me and I've read a lot of books. And I honestly think I had some rib issues when I was in 2017-2018. And I think some of it was to do with the fact that I breathed through my mouth and not through my nose. So I, I breathed very high up. You know, it was all in my chest. It was all where, you know, breathing through your nose, you got to expand your diaphragm and you actually breathe properly. Like if you look at a little baby breathing, you know, their belly goes up and down, not their chest. So I just, I almost needed to retrain myself on how to breathe properly. And then what happens when you breathe properly is your nervous system starts to relax. So it's very, it's much easier to tap into your parasympathetic system. So fight or flight, basically. And on the golf course, you want to be as calm and as level-headed as you possibly can be. So one of the things that I do is when I walk between shots, I just try to keep my mouth closed unless I'm talking to Harry or whatever it is. But, you know, if I can just remember to breathe through my nose on the golf course, I just know that helps my mental state and my nervous system so much. I'm going to try that before I give my next big speech. Hey, everyone. It's Kula, co-host of Three More Questions. And I have some exciting news to share with you. We just launched a breakthrough app that will help you become a better leader in less than two minutes a day. It's called How Leaders Lead. As you know, on the podcast, David spends about an hour each week interviewing some of the top leaders in the world. But we know that leaders like yourself are pressed for time, so we've taken the very best clips from these conversations and put them into an easy-to-use mobile app that you can learn from in less than two minutes a day. If you want to become a better leader, start a daily leadership habit with the How Leaders Lead app. It's available now for free in the App Store. Download it today. I've heard you say your love for golf is unconditional. How have you worried how have you sustained that level of passion for so many years now in spite of the high highs and the low lows? I would say because I love the game. I love the game of golf. And I play it competitively. And because I play it competitively, you have wins and losses. You've good days. But I love the game. I love going over to Seminole and playing with my dad. I think that's the reason. And I think if you find anyone who is truly great at what they do and they're passionate about what they do, it's because they just have this innate love for it. I've loved the game ever since I knew how to walk. And I don't think, just because I'm a competitive golfer now, I don't think I 'll ever lose that because I don't see it as a job. I see it as a-- I get to play this game that I love. Sometimes they pay me for it. It's great. So that to me is the-- and also, I also think that the game of golf has been so good to me and so good to my family. The opportunities, the game of golf has given us. And I think just being grateful for that because I could have picked another sport or I could have picked another profession. But I chose golf. And I loved golf and golf has loved me back. And that's awesome. Roy, was there every time where you lost some of that passion? And if so, what did you do to get it back? It was the summer of 2005. I was 16 years old. My dad would drive me to all these different tournaments around Ireland. And we were coming back from the Mullingar Scratch Cup that I had just won. I'd won this tournament and it was great. But I remember driving back in the car and I said to my dad, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. All my friends are off school and they're going and doing whatever. And I feel like I'm missing all this stuff. I just want a tournament. I'm not happy. You know, all typical teenager stuff that you-- you know, the emotions that you go through. So my dad said, fine, take a few days off. See how you feel. Having full well that when I take a few days off, I couldn't wait to get back to the golf course. He knew me so well. He's like, whatever you want to do, your mother and I will support. Whatever you want to do, if that means that you need to focus more on your schoolwork, that's if you're not going to play golf, that's something you're going to have to do. But he said, take a few days off. Take a week off and see how you feel. And I think I lasted three days. And then I was back at the golf course. So I didn't last long. And then during my professional career, there's been times where I know that I 've needed a trick, I've needed a rest. But I've never fallen out of love with the game. You know, Laura, this has been so much fun. I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Ready. All right. Three words to best describe you. Happy, driven, compassionate. If you could be one person beside yourself for a day, who would it be? Staff Curry. Your biggest pet peeve. People talking over you in a conversation. Who would play you in a movie? Um, bad ass like. Imagine it's the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole, a par four, and you need a birdie to win it. But someone else has to hit your shots for you. Who's hitting the drive? Ludwig Aberg. Who's hitting the approach shot? Justin Thomas. Who's putting? Danny McCarthy. Who's the number of hole in ones you've made? I have made 12. Your most memorable golf shot. Probably that three-wooded Valhalla on Sunday during the PGA. Oh, nice little eagle you made there, big guy. Yeah. What's something you'd only know about Northern Ireland if you'd been there? In my opinion, the people are some of the best people in the world. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Um, hip-hop. Usually hip-hop. What's something about you that few people would know? I'm a big watch collector and I'm a big wine collector. It was probably there. There might be two big entrests outside of golf. And your most meaningful tournament victory? It's out of less field, but the 2013 Australian Open. I have had the worst season of my professional career in 2013. I just had a changed equipment. I sort of really struggled to make the switch. I had an awful year. I didn't have a win, didn't play well. And I went down to Australia and I played with Adam Scott all four days. He was the reigning Masters Champion and I ended up beating him on the 72nd green. And that was just of all the trophies that I have at home. That stone haven't caught the Australian Open Trophy is meaningful because I feel like it got me back on track to then go and have the great year in 2014 that I did and go on to win two majors that year. So that Australian Open will always hold a special place in my heart. I would have never guessed that one. That's fantastic. You know, just a few more questions and I'll let you get back to work. You know, analytics are like everything today on almost every field. How do you use analytics to determine what you need to get better at? Or do you? Yeah, I do. I'm a stats analyst and he sent me a deck this week on Valhalla. You know, what you need to do there to play well and you know, okay, well, you need to focus on, you know, between 150 and 175 is a big area of focus and you have to focus on putting between 18 and 24 feet and you have to do this. So and the good thing with golf now is we have all this data available to us. So through the shot link system that the PGA Tour uses and then through the track man that, you know, we use every day on the driving range. And so I think the numbers thing for me, the numbers, the strokes gain numbers as well on tour are so good because you can see how you're doing compared to the rest of the field. It's not just the old stats were okay, greens and regulation or, you know, driving accuracy and that didn't really tell you a story of well, how does that match up with everyone else that's playing that week? So the strokes gain system is it's a great way to measure yourself against the rest of your competition. And it breaks it down in the strokes gain driving, strokes gain approach, strokes gained around the green. So chipping, pitching, bunker play and strokes gain potting. So you know, through those four areas, you can see what your deficient that and then you can break it down even further and be like, okay, well, my strokes gained approach isn't good, but okay, the reason is is because I'm really lacking between 125 and 150. So I'm going to go work on my yardages between 125 and 150. So you can really, you can get into the nitty gritty of it, which I think is I 'm always a proponent of more, more knowledge, more information. You can choose to do whatever you want with that information, but I always think that more more information is better. Roy, one of the things I've been impressed by is how you give back. Talk about that aspect of your life. My attitude towards charity and philanthropy is so the way I try to describe it is I'm very lucky that there hasn't really been anything in my life that has, like from a health wise from a family member or someone else that's made a huge impact on me. So to me, I've always resonated with children. I love children. I love spending time around children. So I've always tried to help either disadvantage children at home or children that have cancer. You know, I've done a lot with the cancer fund for children in Northern Ireland , which is a great charity that has built respite centers for children with cancer, but also their families because, you know, taking care of a child with cancer, that's a huge burden for a family and they need a place to go to be able to recharge and rewind and try to feel like a sense of normality. So I've done a lot of work with them and they do some great work and, you know, that's been amazing and unbelievably fulfilling to feel like you're making a difference in people's lives. But yeah, for me, it's, you know, if I can help children, disadvantaged children, children that are born into undesirable situations, you know, if I can do that through my platform and through financial aid that I can provide, then that's a wonderful way, you know, I feel to give back. You know, that's great. And speaking of children, what have you learned about leadership being a father to poppy? It's a lot of responsibility. And I think you want your, you know, I feel everyone has a responsibility to make sure their child grows up in a really positive, nurturing environment where they're able to express themselves freely. That's been my whole thing. I think Poppy has turned into, you know, she's quite a strong-willed little girl, which is a great thing. You know, she knows what she wants. She's not afraid to tell you, which I think is great. In this day and age, it's, you know, the more of that, the better. So, but, you know, as a parent, there's a big responsibility to provide an environment that is safe, that is nurturing. And, you know, I think we've done that so much. And, yeah, it's a thrill. It's a thrill to see her grow up and turn into the little person she's turned into and the personality and, you know, the things that she says and the activities that she does, she's a great little swimmer. She's into music. She loves singing. She loves dancing. A little piano, a little guitar. You know, she's into all of that. So, that's been unbelievably fulfilling and just to watch her grow into this little girl that has her own mind and personality and knows what she likes. It's really cool. You know, given all you've accomplished already, Roy, what do you see as your unfinished business? At the start of the podcast, when you said I sat my stall light early about wanting to be the number one player in the world when I was seven. I also finished that free as well as that. I want to win all the majors. And I haven't won all the majors. I've gotten pretty close. But I think that's my unfinished business. I think if I, you know, I've got, you know, I'm still a pretty young man. Just turned 35 a couple of days ago. But if I, if I think about it, I've probably got a good 10 or 12 opportunities left at Augusta amongst all the other majors. And, you know, I think that's the only unfinished business I have in the game. And whether I finished that business or not, that's up to me. And what I end my career with a slight tinge of regret, probably. But at the same time, the game of golf's been unbelievable to me. And, you know, if that were to happen, wonderful. But if not, I would leave or I would walk away from the game being unbelievably fulfilled with what I've been able to achieve. You ever feel like you want something so bad that it makes it hard to do it? Yeah, you got to let go. You got to let go. That's been the big key for me is the harder you try, the harder it is to achieve. So you got to let it happen. You got to, you know, relax, try to treat it like just any other. It's hard if you're going to give a big speech or you're going to, you know, whatever it is, you, it's, you have to be in the right mindset. I've definitely gotten myself in the right mindset at Augusta, but some years someone just plays better. And that's, you know, again, that's the hard thing about golf tournaments is, you know, you're not just competing against the golf course. You're competing against a hundred other guys and, you know, one of those guys that we could could just have the week of their life. And that's sport. And that's, you know, you go and you try your best and that's all you can do. There's no doubt in my mind where you are going to have the week of your life at Augusta someday and who knows you might just repeat as the champion here at the Halla and wow, what a thrill that would be for everybody to see you as the repeat winner. What's one piece of advice and we'll wrap this up that you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader. The one piece of advice to be a better leader is to be able to see things from others perspective. I think that's a great way to be able to lead, to be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and see the world through their eyes, try to find some sort of compromise . I think that's leadership right there. It's being able to recognize, you know what you know, but you also know what you don't know. We always said in the European team and the Ryder Cup, leaving your ego at the door and taking feedback and taking advice and being open to that to me is sort of leadership 101. Well I think you could give a masterclass in golf right and as you evolve into a leader in business, you're working on a masterclass across all fronts and I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be with me today. The one thing I have to tell you though is that I still haven't gotten over the fact that I'm one of the few guys that's ever lost with you as a partner losing that Harry Diamond and your dad just on the 17th hole, Seminole does not sit well with me. We've got to get a rematch someday. Absolutely. We will. I know Seminoles pretty much closed now or it's closing for the summer so whenever the season starts back up again, we'll get that organized. Awesome buddy. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Pleasure. Thank you. I've got to tell you, I'll never forget watching Rory hit that gorgeous three wood on Valhalla's 10th hole back in 2014. It was crucial to his win that day and I can't wait to see him make more memorable shots like that this weekend. He's a special player and I'm sure you'll agree after this conversation, a special leader too. Every single leader faces tough situations where the people in the room just don't see eye to eye. Sometimes lines get drawn in the sand, people dig in their heels and it gets really hard to find common ground and move forward. I love Rory's insight here about keeping an open mind in those situations. You got to see things from the other person's perspective and you've got to be able to be open enough to let your position evolve and grow as you get more information. To me, that's a sign of incredible maturity and strength and confidence in yourself. And as a leader, it's a must have skill if you want to navigate tricky decisions because you know what? The world does change. Information changes that takes you to a different position. This week ask yourself, is there a position you've taken in your business that you need to revisit? What new information have you gotten that might change your position? Like Rory said, being able to change your mind is a good thing and the kind of mature thinking it takes to lead well provided you change your mind for all the good reasons. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders keep an open mind. Coming up next on How Leaders Lead is Steve Squery, the chairman and CEO of American Express. I think so many people so many times just focus on what they're good at and don 't want to look in that mirror and say, "Hey, this is where I'm not so good and I can use to develop a little bit more." So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]