[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1422/courage-is-a-willingness-to-listen","id",1422,"title","Courage is a willingness to listen","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.000\nI, David, I had one of my closest friends in the firm.\n\n2\n00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:05.800\nAnd even to this day, he's still my closest friends.\n\n3\n00:00:05.800 --> 00:00:08.040\nHe called me up and he said, Tim, he said,\n\n4\n00:00:08.040 --> 00:00:11.000\nbe careful, this isn't what we elected you for.\n\n5\n00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.600\nAnd again, one of my closest friends.\n\n6\n00:00:14.600 --> 00:00:18.720\nAnd I asked him to simply participate and learn.\n\n7\n00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:20.480\nI think courage is an interesting word.\n\n8\n00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.760\nWe often associate courage with taking a hill\n\n9\n00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:25.280\nand loud voices.\n\n10\n00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.000\nThe courage sometimes is a willingness to listen.\n\n11\n00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.640\nAnd I really try to listen to all the different perspectives.\n\n12\n00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.600\nAnd what I try to do in that case is get this person,\n\n13\n00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:36.600\nI'll call him Fred, that's not his name.\n\n14\n00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.240\nI asked him just to participate, learn with an open mind.\n\n15\n00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.000\nAnd what happened is he met me halfway.\n\n16\n00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:44.120\nHe realized it.\n\n17\n00:00:44.120 --> 00:00:46.720\nSo the courage was willing to listen to him\n\n18\n00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:50.160\nand not get angry, not get mad, not get upset.\n\n19\n00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:54.040\nHe couldn't see what I was beginning to understand.\n\n20\n00:00:54.040 --> 00:00:57.000\nAnd part of it was really trying to be that bridge bill\n\n21\n00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:58.800\nthat I get him to understand.\n\n22\n00:00:58.800 --> 00:00:59.800\nAnd I think that's really it.\n\n23\n00:00:59.800 --> 00:01:02.520\nLike ultimately you need to make decisions, no doubt about it.\n\n24\n00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.000\nAnd that is a sign of a, that is a really important sign\n\n25\n00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:06.000\nof a leader.\n\n26\n00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.120\nBut decisions after getting a lot of input\n\n27\n00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:10.800\nand appreciating different perspectives.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",466000,"end_time",535484,"keywords","perspectives, interpersonal relationships, decisions, race relations, understanding, self awareness, pwc","slug","courage-is-a-willingness-to-listen","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","fmTuHa5cGBKchynmZgf02BedQMqX1t9mK6tV61d016HSE","mux_asset_id","euTznjpZqrksWtxsM3uLItfNM9sPJ01oH3fK1Qv5mWj4","leader_id",124,"episode_id",272,"updated_at","2025-02-26T20:05:51.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1422/courage-is-a-willingness-to-listen","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Listen to Different Perspectives","listen-to-different-perspectives","Learn how listening is a key part of your job as a leader, especially when you face risky decisions. Get practical advice for making diversity and inclusion a real priority. Plus, the three fundamental things the marketplace is telling us – and why they need to be a part of your strategic plans.","summary","

Today’s guest is Tim Ryan, US Chair and Senior Partner of PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the top accounting and consulting firms in the world.

You don’t get elected to this kind of position if you’re not absolutely at the top of your game. And Tim sure is. He is one of the smartest guys around.

But that does not mean he has all the answers. In fact, in his words, he “drives himself crazy with listening.” He’s always seeking out more data points and drawing out differing perspectives.

It’s really at the heart of how they serve their clients and formulate strategy.

And that willingness to listen has also empowered him to make some really bold decisions.

Right after he was elected to his role in 2016, there was a tragic, racially charged shooting in Dallas. Tim listened to his employees’ rousing response.

And it motivated him to drastically shift his entire leadership strategy to focus on racial injustice.

That’s the big leadership lesson waiting for you today. When you know how to listen to different perspectives, you can make even the toughest decisions from a place that’s informed and empathetic. And that’s definitely the mark of a great leader.

You’ll also learn:

A practical blueprint for making diversity a real priority at your company
The #1 thing to focus on when things feel scary or chaotic at work
The 3 big trends every business needs to be dialed into right now
What to do when you make a mistake (yes, this is the hard-won wisdom after the infamous Oscars blunder)

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.030\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:08.030 --> 00:00:08.880\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.960\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.430\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:14.430 --> 00:00:15.040\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:15.040 --> 00:00:18.920\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:21.320\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:26.530\nToday's guest is Tim Ryan, US chair and senior partner of PricewaterhouseCo\n\n9\n00:00:26.530 --> 00:00:27.600\nopers, one of the\n\n10\n00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.120\ntop accounting and consulting firms in the world.\n\n11\n00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.450\nNow you don't get elected by your partners to this kind of position if you're\n\n12\n00:00:34.450 --> 00:00:35.360\nnot absolutely\n\n13\n00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:37.040\nat the top of your game.\n\n14\n00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:38.440\nAnd Tim sure is.\n\n15\n00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:40.880\nHe is one of the smartest guys I know.\n\n16\n00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:43.280\nBut that doesn't mean he has all the answers.\n\n17\n00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:48.080\nIn fact, in his words, he derives himself crazy with listening.\n\n18\n00:00:48.080 --> 00:00:52.640\nHe's always seeking out more data points and drawing out differing perspectives\n\n19\n00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:52.720\n.\n\n20\n00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:58.840\nIt's really at the heart of how PWC serves their clients and formulate strategy\n\n21\n00:00:58.840 --> 00:00:58.920\n.\n\n22\n00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.610\nAnd you know, that willingness, and I'd go so far as to say eagerness, to\n\n23\n00:01:03.610 --> 00:01:04.480\nlisten, has\n\n24\n00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:08.600\nalso empowered him to make some really bold decisions.\n\n25\n00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:14.190\nRight after he was elected to his role in 2016, there was a tragic, racially\n\n26\n00:01:14.190 --> 00:01:15.240\ncharged shooting\n\n27\n00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:17.000\nin Dallas.\n\n28\n00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.560\nTim listened to his employees rousing response and it motivated him to\n\n29\n00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:22.960\ndrastically shift his\n\n30\n00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:28.320\nentire leadership strategy to focus on racial injustice.\n\n31\n00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:32.000\nAnd that's the big leadership lesson waiting for you today.\n\n32\n00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.670\nWhen you know how to listen to different perspectives, you can make even the\n\n33\n00:01:35.670 --> 00:01:37.160\ntoughest decisions\n\n34\n00:01:37.160 --> 00:01:40.640\nfrom a place that's informed and empathetic.\n\n35\n00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:43.880\nAnd that's definitely the mark of a great leader.\n\n36\n00:01:43.880 --> 00:01:55.800\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Tim Ryan.\n\n37\n00:01:55.800 --> 00:02:00.660\nNow as we're learning, every leader has their own unique style, something that\n\n38\n00:02:00.660 --> 00:02:01.240\nsets them\n\n39\n00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:02.240\napart.\n\n40\n00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:07.070\nAnd I'd venture to say that Tim has embraced diversity and inclusion as a\n\n41\n00:02:07.070 --> 00:02:08.320\nbusiness driver.\n\n42\n00:02:08.320 --> 00:02:13.360\nAnd I'm talking about a real business driver with a courage and passion like no\n\n43\n00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.000\nother CEO.\n\n44\n00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.000\nTim, thanks so much for taking the time to have this conversation.\n\n45\n00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.000\nThank you, David.\n\n46\n00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:21.000\nIt's great to be here.\n\n47\n00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.280\nI really appreciate your work and I'm looking forward to the conversation.\n\n48\n00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.820\nTim, I have to ask you as we get started and I want to get your whole story\n\n49\n00:02:26.820 --> 00:02:27.320\nhere.\n\n50\n00:02:27.320 --> 00:02:32.090\nBut what was that watershed moment that you had that made you decide to put\n\n51\n00:02:32.090 --> 00:02:32.840\ndiversity\n\n52\n00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.360\nand equality as your real focus of your leadership?\n\n53\n00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.040\nYeah, David, it's interesting.\n\n54\n00:02:39.040 --> 00:02:42.770\nI had the privilege of being a elected chairman and senior partner by my\n\n55\n00:02:42.770 --> 00:02:44.040\npartners in the spring\n\n56\n00:02:44.040 --> 00:02:49.200\nof 2016 at PwC where democracy, it's one partner, one vote.\n\n57\n00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:52.600\nI tell people it's similar to the United States, but a lot more civil.\n\n58\n00:02:52.600 --> 00:02:57.830\nAnd I had partners vote and when I ran for senior partner, I had a really good\n\n59\n00:02:57.830 --> 00:02:58.520\nplan.\n\n60\n00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:02.500\nWe were going to grow, we were going to gain market share, we were going to\n\n61\n00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:03.200\ntransform,\n\n62\n00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:04.680\nenter new markets.\n\n63\n00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.800\nAnd if you saw it, I hope you would agree it was a really good plan.\n\n64\n00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:13.040\nOne week into my first week as chairman and senior partner, that Friday was\n\n65\n00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:13.840\nwhen we had\n\n66\n00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.000\nshootings in Dallas.\n\n67\n00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:20.320\nI woke up that Friday morning, but my leadership team together and it was clear\n\n68\n00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:21.140\nsomething had\n\n69\n00:03:21.140 --> 00:03:24.560\nhappened in our country in the summer of 2016.\n\n70\n00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:28.120\nAnd I reached out to our people like many CEOs did at the time.\n\n71\n00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.160\nAnd it was a fairly unremarkable email that I sent.\n\n72\n00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:33.000\nIt simply said, \"I know we're hurting.\n\n73\n00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:34.760\nI know this thing's on your mind.\"\n\n74\n00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:37.680\nBut what happened after was very remarkable.\n\n75\n00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:42.740\nWe heard from hundreds and hundreds of our people and one person summed it up\n\n76\n00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:43.400\nbest.\n\n77\n00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.520\nThey said, \"When I came to work Friday morning, the silence was deafening.\"\n\n78\n00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:49.280\nAnd for me, it really hit me.\n\n79\n00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.920\nHere I'm in charge in privilege with leading 55,000 people and yet they were\n\n80\n00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:54.800\ncoming within\n\n81\n00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:57.400\nthe full walls of PwC and couldn't talk about it.\n\n82\n00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:00.240\nAnd it was that day that I threw that really good plan out the window.\n\n83\n00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.870\nWhat I realized on that day is if I can inspire and help our people, remarkable\n\n84\n00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:05.680\nthings will\n\n85\n00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:06.680\nhappen.\n\n86\n00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.080\nThe goals I had in my plan were outcomes.\n\n87\n00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.410\nWhat I was really missing was the fact that you got to motivate and inspire,\n\n88\n00:04:12.410 --> 00:04:13.680\nprotect people\n\n89\n00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.040\nand great things happen.\n\n90\n00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:18.870\nAnd so it was my first week as chairman and senior partner that we really did a\n\n91\n00:04:18.870 --> 00:04:19.280\nmajor\n\n92\n00:04:19.280 --> 00:04:20.280\npivot.\n\n93\n00:04:20.280 --> 00:04:21.440\nWow, that's amazing.\n\n94\n00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:27.720\nAnd I understand shortly thereafter you had a firm-wide conversation on race.\n\n95\n00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.560\nNow what compelled you to do that?\n\n96\n00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:35.230\nWell, it became clear as PwC, like many large organizations, we were 10, 15\n\n97\n00:04:35.230 --> 00:04:36.000\nyears into a\n\n98\n00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.440\ndiversity strategy and programs.\n\n99\n00:04:38.440 --> 00:04:43.410\nWe had all the training, all the programs, measurement, different groups for 10\n\n100\n00:04:43.410 --> 00:04:44.080\nyears.\n\n101\n00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:49.040\nWhat became clear in that early part of July of 2016 is that we were\n\n102\n00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:50.960\nuncomfortable talking\n\n103\n00:04:50.960 --> 00:04:55.370\nabout race and the point where literally people weren't sure whether you were\n\n104\n00:04:55.370 --> 00:04:56.840\nBlack or African-American\n\n105\n00:04:56.840 --> 00:04:57.840\nor Black and Brown.\n\n106\n00:04:57.840 --> 00:05:02.330\nAnd it became clear we had missed the foundation, the foundation of true\n\n107\n00:05:02.330 --> 00:05:03.840\nunderstanding what it's\n\n108\n00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:06.830\nlike to be in somebody's shoes, what it's like to be Black in the workplace,\n\n109\n00:05:06.830 --> 00:05:07.280\nwhat it's\n\n110\n00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:11.540\nlike to be Black in our communities and come to work and go back to your\n\n111\n00:05:11.540 --> 00:05:12.640\ncommunities.\n\n112\n00:05:12.640 --> 00:05:16.580\nSo we made the decision, or I made the decision, ultimately to cut the firm\n\n113\n00:05:16.580 --> 00:05:18.360\ndown on July 21,\n\n114\n00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.520\n2016 to have a day-long discussion on race.\n\n115\n00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:25.870\nYou can imagine as a young new CEO, there were many who felt that was a good\n\n116\n00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:26.480\nidea and\n\n117\n00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.480\nmany who felt it was too risky.\n\n118\n00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:34.610\nOne Fortune 50 CEO said, \"Tim, it's going to blow up in your blankity blank\n\n119\n00:05:34.610 --> 00:05:35.080\nface.\"\n\n120\n00:05:35.080 --> 00:05:38.740\nIf you do this, we ultimately decided to do it, David, because we needed to\n\n121\n00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:39.480\nunderstand\n\n122\n00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:40.480\neach other.\n\n123\n00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:41.680\nWe needed to get raw.\n\n124\n00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.400\nWe needed to really understand what it was like.\n\n125\n00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:50.360\nAnd then by doing so, that would then set the foundation for moving forward.\n\n126\n00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:55.360\nI won't go into details in the day right now, but one person said a best.\n\n127\n00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:00.660\nWe said in that day, we shed more tears on that day than we did in our 160-year\n\n128\n00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:01.520\nhistory.\n\n129\n00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:06.190\nAnd I had the ability to participate in Atlanta and New York that day, and it\n\n130\n00:06:06.190 --> 00:06:07.480\nwas remarkable.\n\n131\n00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:08.600\nWhat did you learn, Tim?\n\n132\n00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:15.400\nI learned that we had people who were coming to work with things in their minds\n\n133\n00:06:15.400 --> 00:06:15.600\nthat I\n\n134\n00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:17.120\ncould have never understood.\n\n135\n00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.450\nAnd so again, as a young CEO, my mindset was, every day you come to work, you\n\n136\n00:06:22.450 --> 00:06:23.000\ntake the\n\n137\n00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:27.640\nhill, you serve our clients, well, you transform the firm, you're 100% all in.\n\n138\n00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:31.640\nWhat I learned is we had people coming to work, and we had black professionals\n\n139\n00:06:31.640 --> 00:06:32.080\nwho felt\n\n140\n00:06:32.080 --> 00:06:34.360\nlike they would be watching our hallways.\n\n141\n00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:35.360\nThey felt unsafe.\n\n142\n00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:39.440\nAnd so here I am, naively thinking, we're all marching to the same mission.\n\n143\n00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:43.030\nWe have a great strategy, a great way to go, and people have more basic things\n\n144\n00:06:43.030 --> 00:06:43.520\nin their\n\n145\n00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:44.520\nminds.\n\n146\n00:06:44.520 --> 00:06:49.620\nI learned that some of our black professionals carry their driver's license in\n\n147\n00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:50.320\ntheir PwC\n\n148\n00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:51.480\nbusiness card.\n\n149\n00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.080\nSo if they get pulled over, they can show that they could afford the car.\n\n150\n00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:58.590\nI learned that some of our black professionals, when they're going out to play\n\n151\n00:06:58.590 --> 00:06:59.160\na softball\n\n152\n00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.000\ngame in Central Park, and they take their work shirt off and they put their t-\n\n153\n00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:04.000\nshirt on,\n\n154\n00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.830\nthey feel like they're being watched because their people view them as unsafe\n\n155\n00:07:07.830 --> 00:07:08.680\nin the office,\n\n156\n00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:12.100\nI learned that some of our black professionals teach their children and sons\n\n157\n00:07:12.100 --> 00:07:12.800\nhow to get pulled\n\n158\n00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:14.400\nover by the police.\n\n159\n00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:19.400\nThings I could have never understood that I now had a beginning to understand\n\n160\n00:07:19.400 --> 00:07:19.720\nmore and\n\n161\n00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:21.280\nmore was on our people's minds.\n\n162\n00:07:21.280 --> 00:07:22.640\nI knew we needed to address it.\n\n163\n00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:26.400\nNo, you had one CO tell you this thing was going to just blow up in your face.\n\n164\n00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:30.520\nAnd I'm sure, I've been in a lot of meetings internally where you want to make\n\n165\n00:07:30.520 --> 00:07:31.120\nan effort\n\n166\n00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:33.920\nlike this and people say, \"Hey, come on, Tim.\n\n167\n00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.720\nWe got a business to run.\n\n168\n00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.240\nHow do you muster up the courage to do that?\"\n\n169\n00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.400\nBecause it looks easy now, but back then you're new.\n\n170\n00:07:43.400 --> 00:07:44.400\nYou want to get the results.\n\n171\n00:07:44.400 --> 00:07:45.840\nHow do you muster up that courage?\n\n172\n00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:46.840\nI did.\n\n173\n00:07:46.840 --> 00:07:48.920\nI had one of my closest friends in the firm.\n\n174\n00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.760\nAnd even to this day, he's still my closest friends.\n\n175\n00:07:51.760 --> 00:07:54.560\nHe called me up and he said, \"Tim, be careful.\n\n176\n00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.160\nThis isn't what we elected you for.\"\n\n177\n00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:03.680\nAnd again, one of my closest friends, and I asked him to simply participate and\n\n178\n00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:04.600\nlearn.\n\n179\n00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.400\nI think courage is an interesting word.\n\n180\n00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:11.280\nWe often associate courage with taking a hill and loud voices.\n\n181\n00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:14.320\nThe courage sometimes is a willingness to listen.\n\n182\n00:08:14.320 --> 00:08:17.640\nAnd I really try to listen to all the different perspectives.\n\n183\n00:08:17.640 --> 00:08:21.280\nAnd what I try to do in that case is get this person, I'll call him Fred.\n\n184\n00:08:21.280 --> 00:08:22.480\nThat's not his name.\n\n185\n00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:26.280\nI asked him just to participate, learn with an open mind.\n\n186\n00:08:26.280 --> 00:08:29.200\nAnd what happened is he met me halfway.\n\n187\n00:08:29.200 --> 00:08:30.200\nHe realized it.\n\n188\n00:08:30.200 --> 00:08:35.090\nSo, the courage was willing to listen to him and not get angry, not get mad,\n\n189\n00:08:35.090 --> 00:08:36.040\nnot get upset.\n\n190\n00:08:36.040 --> 00:08:40.200\nHe couldn't see what I was beginning to understand.\n\n191\n00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:43.760\nAnd part of it was really trying to be that bridge bill that I get him to\n\n192\n00:08:43.760 --> 00:08:44.680\nunderstand.\n\n193\n00:08:44.680 --> 00:08:45.880\nI think that's really it.\n\n194\n00:08:45.880 --> 00:08:48.520\nUltimately, you need to make decisions, no doubt about it.\n\n195\n00:08:48.520 --> 00:08:52.040\nAnd that is a sign of a, that is a really important sign of a leader.\n\n196\n00:08:52.040 --> 00:08:55.280\nBut decisions after getting a lot of input and appreciating different\n\n197\n00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:56.080\nperspectives.\n\n198\n00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:59.760\nSo it sounds like when you get challenged, your first instinct is to listen.\n\n199\n00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.760\nYeah.\n\n200\n00:09:00.760 --> 00:09:02.960\nSo I drive myself crazy with listening.\n\n201\n00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:04.640\nI'm a constant listener.\n\n202\n00:09:04.640 --> 00:09:09.350\nI'm a big believer in understanding the different perspectives of how you come\n\n203\n00:09:09.350 --> 00:09:10.160\nat a problem.\n\n204\n00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:13.160\nUltimately, I'm very willing to make a decision.\n\n205\n00:09:13.160 --> 00:09:15.560\nBut it's rare that I would make a HST's decision.\n\n206\n00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:18.960\nI'm a big believer that leaders collect data points.\n\n207\n00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.520\nAnd your job is to accumulate multiple data points.\n\n208\n00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:26.670\nAnd then, similar data points, I share with people often, I'm without a doubt,\n\n209\n00:09:26.670 --> 00:09:27.120\nnot one\n\n210\n00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.000\nof the smartest people in the world.\n\n211\n00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:31.560\nBut I'm a really good listener and I'm smart enough to know if there's enough\n\n212\n00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:32.200\npeople pointing\n\n213\n00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.820\nto something over here, a good thing, a bad thing, an opportunity, a problem,\n\n214\n00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:36.480\nthen that's\n\n215\n00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:37.960\nwhere I need to go.\n\n216\n00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.980\nAnd find it's a little bit humbling because definitely not the most intelligent\n\n217\n00:09:41.980 --> 00:09:42.520\nperson,\n\n218\n00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:44.600\nbut a really good listener and then you know where to go.\n\n219\n00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:46.680\nWell, you've learned one plus one equals three.\n\n220\n00:09:46.680 --> 00:09:49.160\nIt increases your IQ points, which is great.\n\n221\n00:09:49.160 --> 00:09:52.120\nNow, you also, you didn't just focus internally.\n\n222\n00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.000\nYou started the CEOs taking action group.\n\n223\n00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:57.000\nTell us about it.\n\n224\n00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:58.000\nYeah.\n\n225\n00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.850\nSo David asked literally that the day we ended on July 21st, I was walking out\n\n226\n00:10:02.850 --> 00:10:03.320\nof the\n\n227\n00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:04.320\noffice.\n\n228\n00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.160\nI was a black man, which is roughly six to eight years of experience.\n\n229\n00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:11.000\nHe said to me something the effect of Tim, thank you for today.\n\n230\n00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:12.000\nIt was great.\n\n231\n00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.000\nThank you for the leadership.\n\n232\n00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:14.000\nI really appreciate it.\n\n233\n00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:15.000\nWe need it.\n\n234\n00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:16.960\nHe said, but can I ask you a question?\n\n235\n00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:22.200\nHe said, with a brand of PwC, what's your role outside of PwC?\n\n236\n00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.600\nAnd I will admit, David, I thought to myself, God, can I just, I breathe?\n\n237\n00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:30.160\nCan I, we just pulled this really risky day off.\n\n238\n00:10:30.160 --> 00:10:33.580\nIt didn't blow up or it was getting news from all over the country that had\n\n239\n00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:34.360\ngone well.\n\n240\n00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.630\nBut the more I thought about it that night, again, listening, the more I\n\n241\n00:10:37.630 --> 00:10:38.360\nthought about\n\n242\n00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:39.360\nit, he was right.\n\n243\n00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:43.520\nLike I sit in an incredibly privileged seat at serving ultimately at the\n\n244\n00:10:43.520 --> 00:10:44.400\nconfidence of\n\n245\n00:10:44.400 --> 00:10:49.110\nmy partners, but I have a major responsibility to the communities and our\n\n246\n00:10:49.110 --> 00:10:49.920\nclients.\n\n247\n00:10:49.920 --> 00:10:52.720\nAnd the more I thought about it, I'm like, God, he is right.\n\n248\n00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:53.720\nHe is right.\n\n249\n00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:55.680\nAnd so I began talking to people.\n\n250\n00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:59.920\nI began trying to listen to what is the role of the business community.\n\n251\n00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:01.760\nAgain, it's the summer of 2016.\n\n252\n00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:05.760\nIt's we've come a long way in four years around purpose and ESG and role of a\n\n253\n00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:06.800\ncorporation.\n\n254\n00:11:06.800 --> 00:11:10.520\nBut in summer of 2016, it was way less clear.\n\n255\n00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:13.920\nAnd so what I did is it began to talking to people that I respected.\n\n256\n00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:16.840\nSo I spent a lot of time with David Taylor, the chairman and CEO of Parkland\n\n257\n00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:17.400\nGamble.\n\n258\n00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:21.280\nI spent a lot of time with a man by the name of Ron Parker, who is the chairman\n\n259\n00:11:21.280 --> 00:11:21.800\nand CEO\n\n260\n00:11:21.800 --> 00:11:24.160\nof the executive leadership council.\n\n261\n00:11:24.160 --> 00:11:29.120\nAnd we began talking about what is the role of business and what we realized is\n\n262\n00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:29.760\nthere was\n\n263\n00:11:29.760 --> 00:11:30.760\na void.\n\n264\n00:11:30.760 --> 00:11:35.390\nThere was a void of how do we help all of us become way better at something we\n\n265\n00:11:35.390 --> 00:11:36.040\n're very\n\n266\n00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:39.800\nuncomfortable on, which is the topic of inclusion and diversity.\n\n267\n00:11:39.800 --> 00:11:41.560\nAnd so that was the ultimate formation.\n\n268\n00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:43.600\nSo I listened to our black professional.\n\n269\n00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.600\nI got other inputs.\n\n270\n00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.240\nClearly we did play a role.\n\n271\n00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.280\nAnd then I got the help of other CEOs.\n\n272\n00:11:49.280 --> 00:11:55.560\nBut really incredible about all this is this happened well before the George\n\n273\n00:11:55.560 --> 00:11:56.720\nFloyd tragic\n\n274\n00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:01.180\nincident that happened and the other things that have just kind of amazed\n\n275\n00:12:01.180 --> 00:12:02.160\neverybody.\n\n276\n00:12:02.160 --> 00:12:05.400\nJust how can it possibly happen in our country?\n\n277\n00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:12.400\nAnd now you've made new commitments to fight racial injustice.\n\n278\n00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:14.120\nWhat are you doing now?\n\n279\n00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:19.210\nThe thing when I maybe first when I look at George Floyd, that murder and that\n\n280\n00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:19.800\nkilling\n\n281\n00:12:19.800 --> 00:12:21.480\nis incredibly tragic.\n\n282\n00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.760\nWhat will be even more tragic is if we don't use it as a springboard\n\n283\n00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:27.920\nopportunity to improve.\n\n284\n00:12:27.920 --> 00:12:33.240\nWhat inspired me from George Floyd's killing is now all across our country.\n\n285\n00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:38.530\nAnd in many cases all across the world, when now the majority we're beginning\n\n286\n00:12:38.530 --> 00:12:39.880\nto understand.\n\n287\n00:12:39.880 --> 00:12:44.940\nThat's really where we were in 2016, understanding what the burden that our\n\n288\n00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.440\nfellow black Americans\n\n289\n00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.520\nand black citizens across the world are carrying.\n\n290\n00:12:49.520 --> 00:12:55.000\nAnd that inspires me and gets me excited that because I truly believe the more\n\n291\n00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:56.040\nwe understand\n\n292\n00:12:56.040 --> 00:12:57.840\nthen we can care more.\n\n293\n00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.520\nI believe in many cases, and I'll put myself in this bucket.\n\n294\n00:13:00.520 --> 00:13:04.480\nPrior to 2016, I was unintentionally ignorant.\n\n295\n00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:09.240\nAnd what's happening now is we're really understanding a lot more and so many\n\n296\n00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:10.280\nmillions of people\n\n297\n00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:12.680\nare saying I had no idea.\n\n298\n00:13:12.680 --> 00:13:16.360\nAnd now that I understand I'm called to do something.\n\n299\n00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:18.880\nAnd what I'm inspired now is we have the opportunity to do something.\n\n300\n00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:22.000\nSo what are we doing at PwC?\n\n301\n00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:26.280\nWe've made a number of commitments inside PwC and on top of everything else we\n\n302\n00:13:26.280 --> 00:13:27.520\n're doing.\n\n303\n00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:30.410\nThe two that I'm most proud about to talk about because there's six I won't\n\n304\n00:13:30.410 --> 00:13:30.960\nspend all\n\n305\n00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.920\nthe time going through six.\n\n306\n00:13:32.920 --> 00:13:38.490\nOne is we're giving every one of our people 40 hours a year paid time\n\n307\n00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:39.960\nadditional on top\n\n308\n00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:44.400\nof everything else we do to go spend in the community any way they want.\n\n309\n00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:49.100\nNon-profit NGO, local policymakers to really drive their passion to make a\n\n310\n00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:50.080\ndifference.\n\n311\n00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.230\nThat's going to be 2.2 million hours into our society to go make a difference\n\n312\n00:13:54.230 --> 00:13:54.800\nand my hope\n\n313\n00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:56.800\nis they'll spend a lot more.\n\n314\n00:13:56.800 --> 00:14:00.900\nThe second thing is we've been working very hard over the last several years\n\n315\n00:14:00.900 --> 00:14:01.680\naround driving\n\n316\n00:14:01.680 --> 00:14:05.960\nimprovement around recruitment, retention, advancement, equity.\n\n317\n00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.000\nAnd I've shared with my people I'm going to make that data available to them.\n\n318\n00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.000\nIn many cases a lot I'm proud of.\n\n319\n00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.560\nNo surprise is still in important areas.\n\n320\n00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:15.000\nBut I want to share that with our people.\n\n321\n00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.070\nWe've been working really hard and I'm hoping by highlighting where we have\n\n322\n00:14:19.070 --> 00:14:20.320\nroom for improvement\n\n323\n00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:25.240\nwill rally around that and work even more better together to go after that.\n\n324\n00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:31.020\nThe thing I'm equally excited about David is we're creating a thousand person\n\n325\n00:14:31.020 --> 00:14:31.920\nstartup.\n\n326\n00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:36.520\nAnd so what we're doing is we're asking every member of CEO Action.\n\n327\n00:14:36.520 --> 00:14:38.160\nThat's CEOAction.com.\n\n328\n00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:41.800\nThat's the entity that we started three years ago.\n\n329\n00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:46.540\nWe're asking every member to contribute one or more people for a two year\n\n330\n00:14:46.540 --> 00:14:47.600\nfellowship with\n\n331\n00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:52.940\nthat those thousand people work together to work on policy making at the city,\n\n332\n00:14:52.940 --> 00:14:53.520\nstate and\n\n333\n00:14:53.520 --> 00:14:57.950\nfederal level and work collaboratively with our policy makers to really drive\n\n334\n00:14:57.950 --> 00:14:58.960\nracial equality\n\n335\n00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:02.320\nand ultimately eliminate racism in the United States.\n\n336\n00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.880\nAnd we will have scale like nobody else has ever had it before.\n\n337\n00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:10.560\nI've contributed one of my potential successors as the CEO of that group.\n\n338\n00:15:10.560 --> 00:15:14.760\nAnd in addition to that we have 20 CEOs who have agreed to serve on the\n\n339\n00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:15.720\ngoverning body\n\n340\n00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.560\nof that group which we're already lined up ready to go.\n\n341\n00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:23.410\nAnd we also at P2VC will contribute 30 people to that group to start it up\n\n342\n00:15:23.410 --> 00:15:24.360\nright away.\n\n343\n00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:29.750\nAs sad as this may sound I can imagine a lot of people listening to this\n\n344\n00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:30.400\npodcast and\n\n345\n00:15:30.400 --> 00:15:34.960\ntheir eyes are rolling back.\n\n346\n00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:38.990\nAnd because they look at this as diversity inclusion sort of some sort of\n\n347\n00:15:38.990 --> 00:15:39.720\nproject you\n\n348\n00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:43.040\ndo off to the side.\n\n349\n00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:48.890\nHow have you integrated everything you're doing with diversity and justice and\n\n350\n00:15:48.890 --> 00:15:49.840\ninclusion?\n\n351\n00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.800\nHow have you integrated that into your business in actually driving results?\n\n352\n00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:55.800\nYeah.\n\n353\n00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:58.400\nAnd I appreciate the skepticism.\n\n354\n00:15:58.400 --> 00:16:02.880\nLike to your point I can understand a lot of people saying we've heard this all\n\n355\n00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:03.360\nbefore\n\n356\n00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.400\nsome companies treat it as a side project.\n\n357\n00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:09.520\nFor us it's integrated in everything that we do just to give you a sense.\n\n358\n00:16:09.520 --> 00:16:14.290\nDavid I spent 10 to 15 percent of my time on diversity inclusion inside of the\n\n359\n00:16:14.290 --> 00:16:14.680\nfirm.\n\n360\n00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:18.320\nSo it is where I spend a significant amount of my time.\n\n361\n00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.480\nIt's at the heart of everything we do.\n\n362\n00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:24.050\nSo when we sit down every year and we're going through our recruitment plans we\n\n363\n00:16:24.050 --> 00:16:24.480\nbring\n\n364\n00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:29.880\non roughly 8 to 9,000 people a year both from campuses and experience hires.\n\n365\n00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:31.960\nWe're talking about representation.\n\n366\n00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.600\nWe're talking about how we're getting the right talent in.\n\n367\n00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.920\nSo it's part of that it's not off the side every year when we go through our\n\n368\n00:16:37.920 --> 00:16:39.320\npeople plans.\n\n369\n00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:42.700\nPart of what we're doing every year when we go through our talent succession\n\n370\n00:16:42.700 --> 00:16:43.320\nprocess.\n\n371\n00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:47.080\nIt's part of what we do when we look at how we serve our clients representation\n\n372\n00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:47.800\nis critical\n\n373\n00:16:47.800 --> 00:16:49.240\nat the team level.\n\n374\n00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.280\nWhen we go through how we deal with our governing matters it's part of that.\n\n375\n00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:54.880\nSo everything we do is part of that.\n\n376\n00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:58.800\nI share with people I share internally and externally.\n\n377\n00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:02.990\nIt is critically important to understand that diversity inclusion is not only\n\n378\n00:17:02.990 --> 00:17:04.000\nfrom my perspective\n\n379\n00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.000\nthe right thing to do.\n\n380\n00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:09.360\nBecause leaders we have a responsibility to make sure everybody can succeed.\n\n381\n00:17:09.360 --> 00:17:12.630\nIt's what's great about this country and we have opportunity to create a level\n\n382\n00:17:12.630 --> 00:17:12.920\nplan\n\n383\n00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:15.440\nfor everybody to succeed.\n\n384\n00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:17.120\nIt's the right thing to do.\n\n385\n00:17:17.120 --> 00:17:20.320\nIf that doesn't get you the business cases overwhelming the reality is that\n\n386\n00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:21.040\ndemographics\n\n387\n00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:25.330\nare changing in our country and our world dramatically and customers will vote\n\n388\n00:17:25.330 --> 00:17:26.200\nwith their feet if\n\n389\n00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:29.660\nthey don't have diverse perspectives and there's a burning need to make sure in\n\n390\n00:17:29.660 --> 00:17:30.400\nour case we\n\n391\n00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.240\nhave diverse teams to serve the very best clients.\n\n392\n00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.630\nWe have the privilege of serving some of the best brands in the world and if\n\n393\n00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:37.320\nthose brands\n\n394\n00:17:37.320 --> 00:17:41.020\ndon't see us as represented their customer base they're going to question\n\n395\n00:17:41.020 --> 00:17:41.600\nwhether they're\n\n396\n00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:43.080\ngetting the right diverse views.\n\n397\n00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:46.040\nAnd lastly our government is changing.\n\n398\n00:17:46.040 --> 00:17:48.800\nThey're going to add a necessity to get dragged into this.\n\n399\n00:17:48.800 --> 00:17:52.360\nSo it's better to own the issue as opposed to not own the issue.\n\n400\n00:17:52.360 --> 00:17:56.640\nSo everything we do it's embedded in how we run our firm.\n\n401\n00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.040\nYou know just to be clear I take my hat off to what you're doing.\n\n402\n00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:01.440\nI'm not one of those skits.\n\n403\n00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.520\nI think what you're doing is you're leading the way and making it happen here.\n\n404\n00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:12.240\nNow the other thing is Tim you've got PWC has thousands of clients in over 150\n\n405\n00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.120\ncountries\n\n406\n00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:15.880\nor a great global organization.\n\n407\n00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.960\nWhat advice are you giving your clients on how to handle COVID-19?\n\n408\n00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:21.600\nYeah thank you David.\n\n409\n00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:27.890\nSo what COVID-19 unquestionably has accelerated strategies that were already in\n\n410\n00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:28.880\nexistence.\n\n411\n00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:34.220\nSo what we're seeing is many companies are realizing the transformation there\n\n412\n00:18:34.220 --> 00:18:35.200\nunderway.\n\n413\n00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.040\nThe digital transformation that they were underway has just been accelerated.\n\n414\n00:18:39.040 --> 00:18:43.170\nSo assuming first second year not one of these massively hard hit industries\n\n415\n00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:44.360\nlike entertainment,\n\n416\n00:18:44.360 --> 00:18:48.630\ntravel, airlines which my heart goes out to them because beyond anything they\n\n417\n00:18:48.630 --> 00:18:49.320\ncan control\n\n418\n00:18:49.320 --> 00:18:50.920\ntheir businesses have been upended.\n\n419\n00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.080\nI'll put those into one group.\n\n420\n00:18:53.080 --> 00:18:57.380\nWhen I look at other companies in other industries, finance insurance, banking,\n\n421\n00:18:57.380 --> 00:18:58.480\nasset management,\n\n422\n00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.660\nmanufacturing, healthcare, entertainment, what we're seeing is their strategies\n\n423\n00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:04.080\nhave been\n\n424\n00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:05.080\naccelerated.\n\n425\n00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:08.240\nLike COVID isn't a change, it's an acceleration.\n\n426\n00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:13.320\nWhat we are advising our clients is to move deliberately and move quickly\n\n427\n00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:14.920\naround accelerating\n\n428\n00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:19.880\ntheir strategy because what's amazing is we've all had this shared experience.\n\n429\n00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:23.880\nHaving gone through this as a world take advantage of that shared experience.\n\n430\n00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:27.680\nWe're also advising that executives need to be in the details.\n\n431\n00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:33.140\nIt is very hard to change an organization that is 100,000 people, 50,000 people\n\n432\n00:19:33.140 --> 00:19:34.360\n, 20,000\n\n433\n00:19:34.360 --> 00:19:37.360\npeople and the change matters at the human level.\n\n434\n00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:41.500\nAnd we're advising our clients at the senior management level be in the\n\n435\n00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:42.520\ntrenches with your\n\n436\n00:19:42.520 --> 00:19:46.860\npeople, explain to them the changes, explain why you're doing this gets the\n\n437\n00:19:46.860 --> 00:19:47.920\nheart to minds.\n\n438\n00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:53.080\nThe reality is many, many of our millions of workers around the country in the\n\n439\n00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:53.080\nworld\n\n440\n00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:55.490\nthey're worried about their own technology relevance, they're worried about\n\n441\n00:19:55.490 --> 00:19:55.840\ntheir job\n\n442\n00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:57.960\nsecurity, what it means to them.\n\n443\n00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.160\nWe're encouraging the drive transformation at the human level.\n\n444\n00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.880\nExplain what you can be transparent about what you don't know.\n\n445\n00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:10.280\nAnd we think that sets a platform to really get the transformation faster than\n\n446\n00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:10.800\npeople\n\n447\n00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:11.800\nare looking for.\n\n448\n00:20:11.800 --> 00:20:13.400\nGet out of the shoe.\n\n449\n00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.280\nAll makes so much sense, but we just talked about two subjects.\n\n450\n00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:23.150\nWe talked about the racial injustice, COVID-19 with all this negativity going\n\n451\n00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:24.120\non, Tim.\n\n452\n00:20:24.120 --> 00:20:25.880\nHow do you keep yourself up?\n\n453\n00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:26.880\nYes.\n\n454\n00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:27.880\nSo thanks, David.\n\n455\n00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:32.600\nI'll share with you something that I did believe it or not about four weekends\n\n456\n00:20:32.600 --> 00:20:33.160\nago.\n\n457\n00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:39.240\nI wrote a letter to my partners to be opened in 2040.\n\n458\n00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:41.920\nAnd the reason I did that is because one of the things that I've come to\n\n459\n00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:43.120\nunderstand through\n\n460\n00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:47.680\nwatching other leaders, learning from other leaders is things will pass.\n\n461\n00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.160\nLike in the moment, things always seem massively, massively challenging.\n\n462\n00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.300\nAnd what I did in this letter that I'm going to have my board approve and have\n\n463\n00:20:56.300 --> 00:20:56.960\nit opened\n\n464\n00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.720\nin 2040 is lay out what our mindset is right now.\n\n465\n00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:01.920\nAnd let's be candid.\n\n466\n00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.960\nIt's a scary world right now.\n\n467\n00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.960\nMany companies don't know what their revenue demand is going to be.\n\n468\n00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.040\nHundreds of thousands of business will go under or be impaired.\n\n469\n00:21:10.040 --> 00:21:12.120\nIt's a challenging time right now.\n\n470\n00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:16.050\nAnd what I'm trying to do in this letter is I laid out here's why we made it\n\n471\n00:21:16.050 --> 00:21:16.560\nand we\n\n472\n00:21:16.560 --> 00:21:17.560\nthrive.\n\n473\n00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:21.990\nAnd we focused on the things that we can control and we focus on things that\n\n474\n00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:22.800\nare guided by\n\n475\n00:21:22.800 --> 00:21:26.820\nour purpose, whether how we treat our people, how we treat our clients, where\n\n476\n00:21:26.820 --> 00:21:27.480\nwe invest,\n\n477\n00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.720\neven though it's harder to invest today.\n\n478\n00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.720\nSo for me, when it gets challenging, I try to take my head up above the clouds\n\n479\n00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:34.160\nbecause\n\n480\n00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:35.160\nI am in the details.\n\n481\n00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.680\nI believe great leaders need to be in the details.\n\n482\n00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.440\nAnd I try to look back at other crises and other challenging times.\n\n483\n00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.200\nAnd we always make it.\n\n484\n00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.750\nAnd we make it because we have the fortitude to look ahead and understand that\n\n485\n00:21:46.750 --> 00:21:47.160\nit'll be\n\n486\n00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:48.160\nokay.\n\n487\n00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.400\nAnd I'm a big believer in your focus on what we can control.\n\n488\n00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:56.840\nI advise hundreds of companies and at a personal level, dozens of CEOs.\n\n489\n00:21:56.840 --> 00:22:02.400\nThere's a lot of scary stuff, geopolitics, the pandemic that we can't control.\n\n490\n00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.880\nWhat we can control is how quickly and how confidently we react to change.\n\n491\n00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:07.880\nAnd I try to do that.\n\n492\n00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.610\nYou know, Tim, I hope I'm around in 2040 when that letter is published to the\n\n493\n00:22:12.610 --> 00:22:13.080\nWall Street\n\n494\n00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:18.600\nJournal, so you've been at PWC for over 30 years.\n\n495\n00:22:18.600 --> 00:22:24.600\nBut I understand your first big job was working in the supermarket.\n\n496\n00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:30.000\nWhat did you learn about customers and having a growth mindset in that job?\n\n497\n00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.840\nYes, David, with all due respect to where I went to college, at Babson College,\n\n498\n00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:34.360\nI learned\n\n499\n00:22:34.360 --> 00:22:37.640\nmore at the supermarket than I ever did anywhere else.\n\n500\n00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.080\nThe supermarkets still in existence today.\n\n501\n00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:43.000\nMy brother and my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, they all worked there still\n\n502\n00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:43.040\n.\n\n503\n00:22:43.040 --> 00:22:47.120\nWhat I learned there first of all is the customer is always right.\n\n504\n00:22:47.120 --> 00:22:50.360\nAnd I learned the humility to know the customer is always right.\n\n505\n00:22:50.360 --> 00:22:53.600\nAnd while I'm now in a client service business, it's the same thing.\n\n506\n00:22:53.600 --> 00:22:56.400\nLike our customers are the people you have to listen to.\n\n507\n00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.240\nAnd I believe any business that loses sight of the fact that customers are the\n\n508\n00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:00.600\nones who\n\n509\n00:23:00.600 --> 00:23:04.280\npay the bills, more importantly, the ones that guide you where to take your\n\n510\n00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:05.080\nbusiness.\n\n511\n00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:07.520\nI learned that at the supermarket.\n\n512\n00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:11.080\nAnd it's grown to take on bigger things over the last 30 years.\n\n513\n00:23:11.080 --> 00:23:14.680\nBut fundamentally, the customers are always right.\n\n514\n00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:17.710\nAround growth mindset, I'll just share with you a quick story that I've shared\n\n515\n00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:18.200\nfrom time\n\n516\n00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.600\nto time.\n\n517\n00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:23.870\nWhen I was at the supermarket, my sophomore year in college, it was only eight\n\n518\n00:23:23.870 --> 00:23:24.520\nstores.\n\n519\n00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:26.360\nIt was a family-owned chain.\n\n520\n00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:30.120\nAnd at the time, they were expanding not to nine, but to ten.\n\n521\n00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:33.800\nThey were jumping from opening two stores at the same time.\n\n522\n00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:38.060\nAnd I'll never forget, when I was working the floor one day, the owner, Pat Ro\n\n523\n00:23:38.060 --> 00:23:38.520\nach, him\n\n524\n00:23:38.520 --> 00:23:42.200\nand his brother, or the Pat and Bud Roach, Pat used to come in all the time.\n\n525\n00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.320\nHe knew us, we knew him.\n\n526\n00:23:44.320 --> 00:23:47.120\nAnd he came up to me, asked me how I was doing.\n\n527\n00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:48.840\nAnd I said to Pat, I said, I'm doing okay.\n\n528\n00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:51.200\nI said, but I got something out of my mind.\n\n529\n00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.120\nA lot of us are concerned, you're growing too fast.\n\n530\n00:23:55.120 --> 00:23:59.210\nAnd we're worried about eroding the brand and worried that maybe we're going to\n\n531\n00:23:59.210 --> 00:23:59.560\nlose\n\n532\n00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:03.240\nthe edge we have of serving the customer better than anybody else.\n\n533\n00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.400\nAnd of course, David, I was a sophomore in college.\n\n534\n00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:07.520\nI had every answer in the book at that point.\n\n535\n00:24:07.520 --> 00:24:11.950\nI had taken to the county class, an economics class, and Pat said to me, he\n\n536\n00:24:11.950 --> 00:24:13.360\nsaid, Tim, he\n\n537\n00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:14.960\npointed to the sign outside.\n\n538\n00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.440\nHe goes, that's mine and Bud's name on the sign.\n\n539\n00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:22.120\nHe goes, I'm worried about the risk of growing too fast.\n\n540\n00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:23.120\nI want you to know that.\n\n541\n00:24:23.120 --> 00:24:25.480\nLike, I don't take that for granted.\n\n542\n00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.460\nAnd then what he did is he goes, he pointed over to my brother, Pat, who at the\n\n543\n00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:30.080\ntime had\n\n544\n00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:31.080\nmade his career choice.\n\n545\n00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:34.560\nHe was going to work there full time, and he's still there today.\n\n546\n00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:37.950\nThe Pat Roach pointed to my brother, Pat, and he said, what I also know is that\n\n547\n00:24:37.950 --> 00:24:38.520\nif I don't\n\n548\n00:24:38.520 --> 00:24:44.350\ncreate opportunities for people like your other Pat to stay and grow, I'm going\n\n549\n00:24:44.350 --> 00:24:45.040\nto lose\n\n550\n00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:46.040\nthem.\n\n551\n00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:49.080\nAnd David, that's when I learned why growth is so important.\n\n552\n00:24:49.080 --> 00:24:51.160\nLike growth isn't a number on a page.\n\n553\n00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.440\nGrowth isn't something you're most about and talk about.\n\n554\n00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:55.960\nLook what I did.\n\n555\n00:24:55.960 --> 00:25:00.170\nIf you're not constantly growing, your best talent's going to walk out the door\n\n556\n00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:00.680\n, and it's\n\n557\n00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:01.680\nto be in the end.\n\n558\n00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.330\nAnd I learned that from Pat Roach, and to this day, I'm very focused on growing\n\n559\n00:25:06.330 --> 00:25:07.800\nour firm.\n\n560\n00:25:07.800 --> 00:25:12.220\nNot so I can have written about, look how great Tim or PBC did, because that\n\n561\n00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:12.720\ntalent that\n\n562\n00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.470\nI'm entrusted in growing them and helping them achieve great career\n\n563\n00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:17.600\nopportunities.\n\n564\n00:25:17.600 --> 00:25:20.650\nIf I'm not going to firm, I'm going to have that great talent walk out the door\n\n565\n00:25:20.650 --> 00:25:20.720\n.\n\n566\n00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:22.520\nPat Roach taught me that at the Super Market.\n\n567\n00:25:22.520 --> 00:25:24.040\nWow, that's great.\n\n568\n00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:28.320\nThen you go from the supermarket to PBC, and that's a long time ago.\n\n569\n00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:30.000\nDo you remember your first day on the job?\n\n570\n00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:31.000\nOh, God.\n\n571\n00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.200\nIn 2013, 1988, this is my first day on the job.\n\n572\n00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.000\nDid you learn anything that first day?\n\n573\n00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:36.000\nI did.\n\n574\n00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.960\nSo I came from a very working class family.\n\n575\n00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.920\nMy mother worked at a supermarket.\n\n576\n00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:44.830\nI remember telling me every day how cold our hands were in the winter, how hard\n\n577\n00:25:44.830 --> 00:25:45.200\nit was\n\n578\n00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:46.400\nto work there.\n\n579\n00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:50.610\nMy dad worked three jobs, and I was the first one to graduate my college at the\n\n580\n00:25:50.610 --> 00:25:51.240\ntime.\n\n581\n00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.880\nMy mother helped me buy my clothes my first day.\n\n582\n00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:58.000\nWe went to Sears and Robot at the Dettum Mall.\n\n583\n00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.230\nWe bought my clothes and I had a couple of nice suits, a couple of really nice\n\n584\n00:26:02.230 --> 00:26:02.960\npolyester\n\n585\n00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:04.440\nties.\n\n586\n00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:08.690\nThat first day, I was really nervous, needless to say, and we were sitting in\n\n587\n00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:09.480\nthe training\n\n588\n00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:10.480\nroom.\n\n589\n00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.480\nIt was June.\n\n590\n00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:13.920\nIt was hot as heck.\n\n591\n00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:18.280\nAs the day wore on, it got very, very, very hot.\n\n592\n00:26:18.280 --> 00:26:20.800\nEverybody was taking their jackets off.\n\n593\n00:26:20.800 --> 00:26:22.840\nAs I noticed, everybody was taking their jackets off.\n\n594\n00:26:22.840 --> 00:26:26.600\nThey all had white, long-sleeve cotton shirts on.\n\n595\n00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:32.120\nI knew underneath my jacket, I had a short sleeve polyester shirt on.\n\n596\n00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:33.560\nI was embarrassed, David.\n\n597\n00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:35.200\nI was embarrassed.\n\n598\n00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:39.240\nI ultimately took it off because I was the only one in the room with the suit\n\n599\n00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.040\ncoat on.\n\n600\n00:26:40.040 --> 00:26:43.000\nAfter I took it off, I felt everybody was looking at me.\n\n601\n00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.080\nI felt like I didn't belong.\n\n602\n00:26:44.080 --> 00:26:46.600\nI felt like this is the wrong place for me.\n\n603\n00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:47.600\nI don't fit in.\n\n604\n00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:49.400\nI'm not like the others.\n\n605\n00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:54.460\nAt lunchtime, one of the instructors took me down to Fileen's basement, which\n\n606\n00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:55.240\nwas a department\n\n607\n00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:56.240\nstore.\n\n608\n00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:01.880\nHe bought me two white cotton shirts, and he showed me the right ones to wear.\n\n609\n00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:04.680\nThat person is now one of my partners today.\n\n610\n00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:08.200\nThat's why I'm here 30 years later, because it's about people.\n\n611\n00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:13.730\nIt's about helping people understand the right things, understand how to fit in\n\n612\n00:27:13.730 --> 00:27:14.520\n, keeping\n\n613\n00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:17.040\nyour own individual identity at the same time.\n\n614\n00:27:17.040 --> 00:27:19.320\nMost of the point was about compassion.\n\n615\n00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:21.200\nI love that story.\n\n616\n00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.200\nHere you are.\n\n617\n00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.000\nYou've climbed the ladder at the top of the organization.\n\n618\n00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:31.160\nWhat was the biggest obstacle you had to overcome to get to where you're at?\n\n619\n00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:36.260\nI would say without a doubt, it was the transition of realizing that in your\n\n620\n00:27:36.260 --> 00:27:38.240\nfirst several years,\n\n621\n00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.560\nyou can do a lot yourself.\n\n622\n00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:45.110\nFor me, it was the realization that if you want to keep progressing, you've got\n\n623\n00:27:45.110 --> 00:27:45.640\nto come\n\n624\n00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.360\nto the realization you can't do it all yourself.\n\n625\n00:27:48.360 --> 00:27:51.680\nFor me, that road was bumpy, quite frankly.\n\n626\n00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.000\nThere were times where I would work.\n\n627\n00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.420\nAgain, you need to work hard to be a leader, but there were times where I was\n\n628\n00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:58.120\nworking around\n\n629\n00:27:58.120 --> 00:28:02.720\nthe clock because I felt this insecure need to do everything myself and to get\n\n630\n00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.240\nit done\n\n631\n00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.200\nright, which you can do that at one level.\n\n632\n00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:11.300\nBy the time you get to certain levels and the responsibility comes so big, if\n\n633\n00:28:11.300 --> 00:28:11.760\nyou don't\n\n634\n00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:16.030\nlearn to trust others and give them guidance and let them show what they have,\n\n635\n00:28:16.030 --> 00:28:17.000\nyou ultimately\n\n636\n00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:18.000\nwill resealing.\n\n637\n00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.770\nFrankly, in my career, I've seen hundreds and hundreds of people hit a ceiling\n\n638\n00:28:22.770 --> 00:28:22.880\nbecause\n\n639\n00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.320\nthey can't get over that comfort level.\n\n640\n00:28:25.320 --> 00:28:27.800\nFor me, it was growing to understand that.\n\n641\n00:28:27.800 --> 00:28:31.720\nI would say my last 10 years, that has been an incredible journey.\n\n642\n00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:35.330\nIt's really been rewarding to see so many other people grow, which not only\n\n643\n00:28:35.330 --> 00:28:36.040\ncontributes\n\n644\n00:28:36.040 --> 00:28:39.630\nto their growth, it contributes to the firm growth as well, but letting go,\n\n645\n00:28:39.630 --> 00:28:40.280\nDavid, was\n\n646\n00:28:40.280 --> 00:28:43.280\nreally hard.\n\n647\n00:28:43.280 --> 00:28:50.000\nYou're obviously a purpose-driven leader.\n\n648\n00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:55.160\nHow would you define your company's North Star?\n\n649\n00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:00.560\nOur purpose is building trust in society and solving important problems.\n\n650\n00:29:00.560 --> 00:29:03.760\nEvery decision we make goes through that lens.\n\n651\n00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:04.760\nEvery decision.\n\n652\n00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:08.180\nI'll just give you a recent example, which frankly is still playing out for our\n\n653\n00:29:08.180 --> 00:29:08.600\neyes.\n\n654\n00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:11.080\nI don't know how this will end.\n\n655\n00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:15.430\nIn mid-March, when we saw the pandemic hit, we knew that the biggest thing on\n\n656\n00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:16.360\nour people's\n\n657\n00:29:16.360 --> 00:29:20.160\nminds was their health of them, their families, and their loved ones.\n\n658\n00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.970\nAs a professional service firm, there wasn't much I could do for our people\n\n659\n00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:23.640\nthere, except\n\n660\n00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.600\nsay, \"Don't travel, work from home,\" and we're here if you need us.\n\n661\n00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:31.700\nBut the second biggest thing that was on our people's minds was their job scary\n\n662\n00:29:31.700 --> 00:29:31.960\n.\n\n663\n00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:36.200\nWe have 55,000 people who are caring for a couple of million family members,\n\n664\n00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:36.800\nfriends,\n\n665\n00:29:36.800 --> 00:29:41.310\nand communities, and we knew economic uncertainty was the second biggest thing\n\n666\n00:29:41.310 --> 00:29:42.320\non their mind.\n\n667\n00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:47.080\nI got my team on the phone and the webcast in the span of a two-week period.\n\n668\n00:29:47.080 --> 00:29:51.200\nI talked to my board and I said, \"We need to help our people.\n\n669\n00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:55.240\nWe need to let them know they don't need to worry about their jobs.\"\n\n670\n00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:58.820\nWe came out at the end of March and we said, \"We will do layoffs as a last\n\n671\n00:29:58.820 --> 00:29:59.560\nresort.\"\n\n672\n00:29:59.560 --> 00:30:03.440\nKeep in mind, David, in March and even sitting here today, we don't know what\n\n673\n00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:04.080\nrevenues are\n\n674\n00:30:04.080 --> 00:30:05.080\ngoing to be.\n\n675\n00:30:05.080 --> 00:30:09.680\nThe economy is so uncertain, but we made that through the prism of our purpose,\n\n676\n00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.000\nwhich is\n\n677\n00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.700\nif we're serious about solving important problems, if we're serious about\n\n678\n00:30:13.700 --> 00:30:14.320\nmaking sure\n\n679\n00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:17.870\nwe're building trust, we owe it to our people to say, \"We're going to do it as\n\n680\n00:30:17.870 --> 00:30:18.520\nan absolute\n\n681\n00:30:18.520 --> 00:30:19.520\nlast resort.\"\n\n682\n00:30:19.520 --> 00:30:23.880\nAs I said here now, five months into this journey, the business is suffering in\n\n683\n00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:24.440\ncertain\n\n684\n00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:26.200\nareas, no doubt about it.\n\n685\n00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.780\nBut our people see that we're leading with our purpose and we're carrying them\n\n686\n00:30:29.780 --> 00:30:30.160\nin, and\n\n687\n00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.530\nFrank, I hope that pays dividends on the outside, but I can tell you this, they\n\n688\n00:30:33.530 --> 00:30:34.760\ntrust us because\n\n689\n00:30:34.760 --> 00:30:36.640\nwe're leading from the front.\n\n690\n00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:42.000\nFor me, that purpose statement drives every lens that we go through.\n\n691\n00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:46.410\nStrategy is so important and you're in a business that is constantly changing\n\n692\n00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:46.880\nand has\n\n693\n00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.480\nto change with your clients.\n\n694\n00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:56.030\nHow do you stay on top of trends and how do you lead this strategic process as\n\n695\n00:30:56.030 --> 00:30:56.840\na CEO?\n\n696\n00:30:56.840 --> 00:31:01.320\nWe're constantly not only talking with each other, but we're constantly\n\n697\n00:31:01.320 --> 00:31:02.200\nlistening to\n\n698\n00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.200\nour clients.\n\n699\n00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.960\nWhen I joke with people, we don't have to be the smartest people in the world.\n\n700\n00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.670\nWe have to listen to our smartest clients because we have the privilege of\n\n701\n00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:11.240\nreaching\n\n702\n00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.430\na thousand companies within the Fortune 1000 because we're constantly dealing\n\n703\n00:31:15.430 --> 00:31:16.120\nwith hundreds\n\n704\n00:31:16.120 --> 00:31:17.360\nof startups.\n\n705\n00:31:17.360 --> 00:31:20.400\nWe're listening, again, to go back to collating data points.\n\n706\n00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:24.340\nFor me, it's not only listening to my team and my people at every level in the\n\n707\n00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:26.000\norganization,\n\n708\n00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.330\nit's being on the road constantly up until this world, now it's virtual, it's\n\n709\n00:31:29.330 --> 00:31:29.920\nlistening,\n\n710\n00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.440\nit's looking and seeing what's working.\n\n711\n00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:36.640\nWhat we realize is that if we listen to our clients and the people that make up\n\n712\n00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:37.440\nthe business\n\n713\n00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.760\ncommunity and are the stakeholders, we know what to do.\n\n714\n00:31:40.760 --> 00:31:44.960\nWhat's driven our strategy very clearly is we believe the marketplace is\n\n715\n00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:45.920\ntelling us three\n\n716\n00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:46.920\nfundamental things.\n\n717\n00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:48.720\nThis has been this way for four years.\n\n718\n00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.800\nThis is not a reaction to COVID.\n\n719\n00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:55.080\nThe marketplace desperately wants things to be more digital and they've told us\n\n720\n00:31:55.080 --> 00:31:55.600\nthat.\n\n721\n00:31:55.600 --> 00:31:57.760\nIf we listen, that's what they're telling us.\n\n722\n00:31:57.760 --> 00:31:59.640\nThey're also telling us they want more value.\n\n723\n00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.280\nWhatever they get from us, they want more value.\n\n724\n00:32:02.280 --> 00:32:05.940\nThey're also telling us that cost matters, like in our labor constrained world,\n\n725\n00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:06.520\nagain,\n\n726\n00:32:06.520 --> 00:32:10.160\npre-COVID, you can't keep passing on headcount costs.\n\n727\n00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.980\nThose three things, cost value digital, that has formed our strategy and we\n\n728\n00:32:14.980 --> 00:32:16.400\nhave been resolute\n\n729\n00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:17.800\nin driving that strategy.\n\n730\n00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:22.810\nThe planning process is listening to what the world is telling us and not just\n\n731\n00:32:22.810 --> 00:32:23.560\nour clients,\n\n732\n00:32:23.560 --> 00:32:25.720\nbut the communities, our people.\n\n733\n00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:31.850\nAnd executing that strategy is constant, constant communication and laser focus\n\n734\n00:32:31.850 --> 00:32:33.320\non what matters.\n\n735\n00:32:33.320 --> 00:32:36.720\nOne of the hardest parts of my job, honestly, David, is respectfully telling\n\n736\n00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.320\npeople good\n\n737\n00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:41.760\nidea, but it doesn't fit with where we're going.\n\n738\n00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:44.200\nWe have to be laser focused on what matters.\n\n739\n00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.520\nFor us, that's cost value and digital.\n\n740\n00:32:46.520 --> 00:32:49.870\nTim, you deal with all clients and you said in the supermarket business, you\n\n741\n00:32:49.870 --> 00:32:50.400\nlearn the\n\n742\n00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.840\ncustomers always right.\n\n743\n00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:54.800\nWell, that's not always true.\n\n744\n00:32:54.800 --> 00:32:59.960\nYou know, sometimes you've got a real tough client and that isn't right.\n\n745\n00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:04.240\nYou know, what, can you tell us about your worst client experience and how you\n\n746\n00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:04.800\nhandled\n\n747\n00:33:04.800 --> 00:33:05.800\nit?\n\n748\n00:33:05.800 --> 00:33:10.570\nYeah, so what I would tell you is in our business, our clients pay us and they\n\n749\n00:33:10.570 --> 00:33:10.960\nwant\n\n750\n00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:11.960\nour best advice.\n\n751\n00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.320\nThat doesn't mean we always agree upfront.\n\n752\n00:33:14.320 --> 00:33:18.570\nLike our best partners are the ones who can present something to a client, a\n\n753\n00:33:18.570 --> 00:33:19.120\npoint of\n\n754\n00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:24.780\nview, and then work with them either to we, we evolve our point of view or they\n\n755\n00:33:24.780 --> 00:33:24.780\n're\n\n756\n00:33:24.780 --> 00:33:27.960\nevolving, or as you mean the middle depends on the facts.\n\n757\n00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:32.820\nI had the privilege of being a partner in the financial crisis and I would not\n\n758\n00:33:32.820 --> 00:33:33.240\ncall\n\n759\n00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:34.240\nit my worst experience.\n\n760\n00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.680\nI would actually call it my best experience, but it was the hardest one.\n\n761\n00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.160\nIt was the hardest one.\n\n762\n00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:41.960\nWhen I was working with this client, I had a great team.\n\n763\n00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:45.280\nSo I had frankly made the pivot of not doing everything myself.\n\n764\n00:33:45.280 --> 00:33:48.650\nThis is important because if I had tried to do anything myself, we would have\n\n765\n00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:49.080\nsurely\n\n766\n00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:50.440\ngotten the wrong answer.\n\n767\n00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.480\nSo I had grown enough as a leader to know you've got to trust your team.\n\n768\n00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:56.260\nAnd we saw some challenges.\n\n769\n00:33:56.260 --> 00:33:59.220\nWe saw some challenges in there at the company.\n\n770\n00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:01.620\nWe worked with the management team at the time.\n\n771\n00:34:01.620 --> 00:34:05.140\nWe worked with the board and ultimately a long period of time we just couldn't\n\n772\n00:34:05.140 --> 00:34:06.100\nget there.\n\n773\n00:34:06.100 --> 00:34:10.300\nAnd despite trying to get there, trying to help them to see what we saw.\n\n774\n00:34:10.300 --> 00:34:13.800\nIn ultimately, I had to make a decision in that like notwithstanding all the\n\n775\n00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:14.380\nlistening\n\n776\n00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:18.450\nand all the consulting and I didn't go in alone, I ultimately had to make a\n\n777\n00:34:18.450 --> 00:34:19.100\ndecision\n\n778\n00:34:19.100 --> 00:34:22.900\nwhich at the time was the hardest decision I'd ever made in my career, which\n\n779\n00:34:22.900 --> 00:34:23.540\nwas simply\n\n780\n00:34:23.540 --> 00:34:26.660\nto tell them we and I can't get there.\n\n781\n00:34:26.660 --> 00:34:28.880\nWe can't get over to their point of view.\n\n782\n00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.570\nAnd I'll never forget David walking back in Midtown Manhattan in early February\n\n783\n00:34:34.570 --> 00:34:35.680\n2008.\n\n784\n00:34:35.680 --> 00:34:39.420\nAnd I had given the client my final answer after months and months and months\n\n785\n00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:40.760\nof deliberation,\n\n786\n00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:45.480\nintense deliberation and trying to help get them over to where we were.\n\n787\n00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.490\nAnd I'll never forget feeling like my career was over, like who would want\n\n788\n00:34:49.490 --> 00:34:50.240\nsomebody who\n\n789\n00:34:50.240 --> 00:34:52.760\nwas that tough and that hard.\n\n790\n00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:56.680\nAnd I'll never forget going into our office around 9 o'clock at night at 300\n\n791\n00:34:56.680 --> 00:34:57.180\nMadison\n\n792\n00:34:57.180 --> 00:34:58.820\nin New York.\n\n793\n00:34:58.820 --> 00:35:04.420\nAnd I went up to the 31st floor, which is where my bags were and my desk was.\n\n794\n00:35:04.420 --> 00:35:07.380\nAnd when I got there, there were 40 people waiting for me.\n\n795\n00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:12.580\nAnd what I realized is even though I felt alone, I wasn't alone.\n\n796\n00:35:12.580 --> 00:35:16.300\nAnd surely it was a very challenging client experience.\n\n797\n00:35:16.300 --> 00:35:20.340\nBut I realized that evening a couple of things, number one, I wasn't alone.\n\n798\n00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:24.210\nEven though I had to make the decision, I had the full firm backing me,\n\n799\n00:35:24.210 --> 00:35:25.480\nincluding the senior\n\n800\n00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:29.080\npartner at the time was there, the role I have now.\n\n801\n00:35:29.080 --> 00:35:34.030\nIt helps me to understand now with 55,000 people, I don't need to make every\n\n802\n00:35:34.030 --> 00:35:34.800\ndecision.\n\n803\n00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:39.270\nBut I need to back my teams when they do make a decision and have to follow all\n\n804\n00:35:39.270 --> 00:35:40.420\nof our process.\n\n805\n00:35:40.420 --> 00:35:42.960\nIf they haven't gone it alone, my job is pretty simple.\n\n806\n00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.960\nI make sure they follow our process and I support them.\n\n807\n00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:49.360\nAnd by the way, I'm happy to tell you that that client today is thriving.\n\n808\n00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:51.540\nAnd it's one of my best relationships.\n\n809\n00:35:51.540 --> 00:35:53.480\nThat's great.\n\n810\n00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.460\nYou talk about citizen led innovation.\n\n811\n00:35:57.460 --> 00:35:58.700\nWhat the heck is that?\n\n812\n00:35:58.700 --> 00:35:59.700\nYeah.\n\n813\n00:35:59.700 --> 00:36:03.660\nSo citizen, it flips problem solving on its head.\n\n814\n00:36:03.660 --> 00:36:07.580\nI believe the way we need to do it in the 21st century.\n\n815\n00:36:07.580 --> 00:36:12.810\nThe way that many of the clients that I serve and even I grew up is you're coll\n\n816\n00:36:12.810 --> 00:36:13.580\nating data\n\n817\n00:36:13.580 --> 00:36:15.880\npoints and you make decisions from the top.\n\n818\n00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:20.940\nThe reality is many businesses are so far flung and so complicated that we,\n\n819\n00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:21.580\ndespite\n\n820\n00:36:21.580 --> 00:36:25.000\nbest efforts sitting in the center, you can't solve everything.\n\n821\n00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:27.540\nBut we all have really smart people.\n\n822\n00:36:27.540 --> 00:36:32.060\nWhat we have tried to do is we empower our people to make decisions on the\n\n823\n00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:32.840\nground.\n\n824\n00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:38.700\nI passionately believe that there's very few decisions somebody can make on the\n\n825\n00:36:38.700 --> 00:36:39.320\nground\n\n826\n00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:41.160\nthat are going to put us out of business.\n\n827\n00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:44.930\nBut if you build a culture of not making decisions at the point of the customer\n\n828\n00:36:44.930 --> 00:36:45.520\n, then\n\n829\n00:36:45.520 --> 00:36:47.820\nyou ultimately, that culture will put you out of business.\n\n830\n00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:52.590\nSo what we've done over the last four years invested in citizen led development\n\n831\n00:36:52.590 --> 00:36:53.320\nand citizen\n\n832\n00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:54.980\nled execution.\n\n833\n00:36:54.980 --> 00:36:59.570\nBy the way, David, on my first day of senior partner 2016, I made the decision\n\n834\n00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:00.040\nto go to\n\n835\n00:37:00.040 --> 00:37:01.040\njeans.\n\n836\n00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:03.360\nAgain, seems pretty obvious today.\n\n837\n00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:07.950\nBut with New York being about 25% of our firm, that didn't go over to a big in\n\n838\n00:37:07.950 --> 00:37:08.640\nNew York.\n\n839\n00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:10.520\nLike, you know, why should we wear jeans?\n\n840\n00:37:10.520 --> 00:37:13.000\nBut they're going to, you know, people don't want to see people on jeans.\n\n841\n00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:14.680\nSo we're the wrong type of jeans.\n\n842\n00:37:14.680 --> 00:37:17.720\nBut I did it because I want to tell people I trust you.\n\n843\n00:37:17.720 --> 00:37:20.840\nI trust you to make the right decisions.\n\n844\n00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:24.040\nFast forward, what we've done over the last three years is we have massively\n\n845\n00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:24.560\nempowered\n\n846\n00:37:24.560 --> 00:37:26.920\nour people with technology.\n\n847\n00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:31.520\nWe have invested in our people like technology for us in constant digital upsk\n\n848\n00:37:31.520 --> 00:37:32.160\nilling is\n\n849\n00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:35.320\nlike an employee benefit, like 401k and healthcare.\n\n850\n00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:40.400\nBy us teaching our people those skills and empowering them to fix things, the\n\n851\n00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:41.320\nproductivity\n\n852\n00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:46.380\nwe've seen over the last two years has been staggering because we're empowering\n\n853\n00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:46.680\nour\n\n854\n00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:52.280\npeople with skills and then decision rights to identify microwaves of driving\n\n855\n00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:53.000\nthings we've\n\n856\n00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.000\nnever seen before.\n\n857\n00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.280\nI'd passionately believe you teach people to fish.\n\n858\n00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.480\nThey'll do things the right way and much better than I could ever do sitting in\n\n859\n00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.000\nNew York.\n\n860\n00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:03.000\nThat's great.\n\n861\n00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:07.460\nNow I have to ask you, when you went to the gene dress code, did you accelerate\n\n862\n00:38:07.460 --> 00:38:08.440\nthe sale\n\n863\n00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:09.920\nof short-sleeved shirts?\n\n864\n00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:15.400\nIt was all types of things.\n\n865\n00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:16.400\nIt's amazing.\n\n866\n00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.840\nEverybody's wearing short-sleeved shirts though.\n\n867\n00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:25.800\nI understand you had the honor of speaking at the commencement at Duke in 2019.\n\n868\n00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.040\nWhat was the most important thing you told the students?\n\n869\n00:38:29.040 --> 00:38:30.800\nThank you for that.\n\n870\n00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.600\nIt was quite an honor.\n\n871\n00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:37.940\nWhat I told them was, at the end of the day, you need to know what your moral\n\n872\n00:38:37.940 --> 00:38:39.880\ncompass is.\n\n873\n00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.960\nThe thing you can never get back is your integrity.\n\n874\n00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.120\nI asked them to think about some of the big challenges in the world.\n\n875\n00:38:46.120 --> 00:38:49.800\nI talked about where we are in race in the United States.\n\n876\n00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:55.000\nI talked about some of the leaders that we should look up in in my rat.\n\n877\n00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:58.740\nI challenged them to think about what their legacy was going to be and have the\n\n878\n00:38:58.740 --> 00:38:59.160\ncourage\n\n879\n00:38:59.160 --> 00:39:00.600\nto make the early hard decisions.\n\n880\n00:39:00.600 --> 00:39:02.920\nI assured them that growth will happen.\n\n881\n00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:06.640\nI assured them that innovation will happen.\n\n882\n00:39:06.640 --> 00:39:09.200\nWe need now more than ever as courageous leaders.\n\n883\n00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:13.040\nAgain, as you point out, that was in the spring of 2019.\n\n884\n00:39:13.040 --> 00:39:16.880\nI asked them to think about what their legacy is going to be in 30 years.\n\n885\n00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:19.400\nI truly believe this will be the generation.\n\n886\n00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:24.800\nThis will be the generation of people that really lead us to more equality in\n\n887\n00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:26.000\nour society.\n\n888\n00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:30.390\nI think we look at talented people like at Duke and all across our country, in\n\n889\n00:39:30.390 --> 00:39:31.160\nour colleges\n\n890\n00:39:31.160 --> 00:39:34.930\nand our high schools, they'll figure out if they have the courage to make those\n\n891\n00:39:34.930 --> 00:39:35.720\ndecisions.\n\n892\n00:39:35.720 --> 00:39:40.400\nBy the way, David, as an aside, we're shooting this on July 20th.\n\n893\n00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:45.410\nThis Saturday, I'm giving the commencement speech and socially distance to my\n\n894\n00:39:45.410 --> 00:39:46.240\nhigh school\n\n895\n00:39:46.240 --> 00:39:48.040\nwhere I went.\n\n896\n00:39:48.040 --> 00:39:53.060\nBy the way, I was in the bottom 25% of the class academically, and I'm going to\n\n897\n00:39:53.060 --> 00:39:53.200\ngive\n\n898\n00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:55.000\nthem the same advice.\n\n899\n00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:56.840\nThat's good.\n\n900\n00:39:56.840 --> 00:40:01.160\nWe share a great academic background together.\n\n901\n00:40:01.160 --> 00:40:06.320\nTell us a story about how you go about inspiring people.\n\n902\n00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.800\nYeah, it's listening first.\n\n903\n00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:10.800\nIt's listening.\n\n904\n00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:14.440\nIt is reading from the front, so I'm extremely hands-on.\n\n905\n00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:18.040\nIf we have a tough client situation, I'm right out there.\n\n906\n00:40:18.040 --> 00:40:19.160\nI'm reading from the front.\n\n907\n00:40:19.160 --> 00:40:21.240\nI'm talking with the client team.\n\n908\n00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:25.570\nI'm talking with the client, and I'm making sure part of inspiring is showing\n\n909\n00:40:25.570 --> 00:40:26.200\nthat I'm\n\n910\n00:40:26.200 --> 00:40:27.200\nin it with you.\n\n911\n00:40:27.200 --> 00:40:29.400\nI'm not directing from the top of the hill.\n\n912\n00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.640\nFor me, that's hugely important.\n\n913\n00:40:31.640 --> 00:40:35.480\nThe other one is, David, there's always problems.\n\n914\n00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:37.840\nThere's always problems out there.\n\n915\n00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.640\nPart of me from an inspiration standpoint is, yes, that's a problem.\n\n916\n00:40:41.640 --> 00:40:43.640\nHow do we figure it out together?\n\n917\n00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:45.280\nI believe in an empowerment.\n\n918\n00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.760\nYou've got to go fix the challenges.\n\n919\n00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:49.480\nYou've got to fix problems.\n\n920\n00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:52.160\nSometimes it's showing people we can fix them together.\n\n921\n00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:53.800\nLet's work on it.\n\n922\n00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.780\nJust as an aside, this morning I spent an hour on the phone with one of our\n\n923\n00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:58.760\nblack partners\n\n924\n00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.920\nwho has experienced some challenges.\n\n925\n00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:02.120\nWe're inspired to fix them together.\n\n926\n00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:03.400\nWe'll fix them together.\n\n927\n00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:07.150\nIt was taking something very challenging and then saying, \"Okay, break it down\n\n928\n00:41:07.150 --> 00:41:07.600\nto those\n\n929\n00:41:07.600 --> 00:41:08.600\nmicrosites.\"\n\n930\n00:41:08.600 --> 00:41:12.560\nWhen you do that and you show together, we can get through things that inspires\n\n931\n00:41:12.560 --> 00:41:13.120\npeople.\n\n932\n00:41:13.120 --> 00:41:17.760\nAs a firm, you have the great privilege of tabulating results for the Oscars.\n\n933\n00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:20.040\nI have to ask you this.\n\n934\n00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:25.880\nWhat was it like when you learned that La La Land was incorrectly named the\n\n935\n00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:26.560\nmovie of the\n\n936\n00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:28.560\nyear instead of Moonlight?\n\n937\n00:41:28.560 --> 00:41:34.320\nWere you in the audience then or watching on TV?\n\n938\n00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.320\nTell us that story.\n\n939\n00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.640\nI had the privilege of attending that Oscars.\n\n940\n00:41:39.640 --> 00:41:41.200\nThat was my first year as senior partner.\n\n941\n00:41:41.200 --> 00:41:43.440\nThey're obviously an incredibly important client.\n\n942\n00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.280\nThey're trying to build up some amazing responsibilities.\n\n943\n00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:52.000\nI thought that was a night off and my wife and I were sitting in the audience.\n\n944\n00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:55.280\nMy first year was very intense, a lot of stuff going on.\n\n945\n00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:59.320\nI had a plan on that being a nice, relaxing evening, watching the great artists\n\n946\n00:41:59.320 --> 00:41:59.920\nget their\n\n947\n00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:00.920\nawards.\n\n948\n00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:05.610\nOnce our people came on stage, I knew we had made a mistake because we don't\n\n949\n00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:06.200\nbelong on\n\n950\n00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:10.770\nstage where the back of the show, the people who shouldn't be seen, we have a\n\n951\n00:42:10.770 --> 00:42:11.840\nvery important\n\n952\n00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:14.920\nresponsibility and we should stay focused on that.\n\n953\n00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:16.800\nYou know you're in trouble when you see the account.\n\n954\n00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.800\nYou got it.\n\n955\n00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.760\nYou're not a group of people you want on stage.\n\n956\n00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.200\nBut David, for me, it was right when they came on, I knew there's a problem.\n\n957\n00:42:24.200 --> 00:42:28.340\nBut again, through years or years of development, my mother taught me something\n\n958\n00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:29.040\n, which is when\n\n959\n00:42:29.040 --> 00:42:31.680\nyou make a mistake on up to it.\n\n960\n00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:33.680\nWe clearly had made a mistake.\n\n961\n00:42:33.680 --> 00:42:38.420\nThis is, again, an important leadership lesson because within minutes I was on\n\n962\n00:42:38.420 --> 00:42:39.000\nthe side of\n\n963\n00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.800\nthe stage with our teams.\n\n964\n00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.200\nWe're getting all kinds of advice.\n\n965\n00:42:42.200 --> 00:42:44.800\nDidn't have all the facts at this point.\n\n966\n00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.680\nBut frankly, I knew enough to know we had made a mistake.\n\n967\n00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:50.510\nI'm very proud of the fact that within a matter of minutes, we're out with a\n\n968\n00:42:50.510 --> 00:42:51.040\nstatement\n\n969\n00:42:51.040 --> 00:42:52.200\nthat said we owned it.\n\n970\n00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:53.200\nWe made a mistake.\n\n971\n00:42:53.200 --> 00:42:55.080\nWe didn't get to the bottom of it.\n\n972\n00:42:55.080 --> 00:42:56.080\nWe did.\n\n973\n00:42:56.080 --> 00:42:59.990\nI think one of the biggest things leaders need to do is simply own up when you\n\n974\n00:42:59.990 --> 00:43:01.320\nmake a mistake.\n\n975\n00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.960\nIn this case, the academy was our client.\n\n976\n00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:06.080\nWe clearly made a mistake.\n\n977\n00:43:06.080 --> 00:43:10.250\nWe sat with them publicly and on the issue and we significantly improved our\n\n978\n00:43:10.250 --> 00:43:10.920\nprocesses\n\n979\n00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:11.920\ngoing forward.\n\n980\n00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:16.850\nFor me, again, an important leadership lesson, which is when you make a mistake\n\n981\n00:43:16.850 --> 00:43:18.080\njust on it.\n\n982\n00:43:18.080 --> 00:43:22.160\nDon't worry about your brand, don't worry about legal, don't worry about risk.\n\n983\n00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:23.160\nMake a mistake on it.\n\n984\n00:43:23.160 --> 00:43:27.280\nI live by this saying bad news only gets worse.\n\n985\n00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:29.120\nIf make a mistake on up to it.\n\n986\n00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:31.320\nI felt horrible for the artist.\n\n987\n00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:33.720\nIt would work so hard to get that.\n\n988\n00:43:33.720 --> 00:43:37.440\nTim, this whole conversation has been so much fun for me.\n\n989\n00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:41.790\nI want to have a little bit more fun with you and ask you a lightning round of\n\n990\n00:43:41.790 --> 00:43:43.480\nQ&A.\n\n991\n00:43:43.480 --> 00:43:46.880\nWhat would be the three words that best describe you?\n\n992\n00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.360\n\"Unbow hardworking and honest.\"\n\n993\n00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.760\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n994\n00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.600\nMy biggest pet peeve is when people say we need to be thoughtful when we're\n\n995\n00:43:56.600 --> 00:43:57.040\ndebating\n\n996\n00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:58.040\na problem.\n\n997\n00:43:58.040 --> 00:44:03.440\nBecause the implication is that we're not going to be thoughtful.\n\n998\n00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:06.920\nWho would you want to be for a day and why?\n\n999\n00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:08.440\nWow.\n\n1000\n00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:12.960\nI would love to be President of the United States for a day.\n\n1001\n00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:13.960\nWhy?\n\n1002\n00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:17.360\nBecause I think we are the best country in the world and I'd love to tell\n\n1003\n00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:18.920\npeople that.\n\n1004\n00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:23.850\nI'd like to see us come together even more to harness the power of this country\n\n1005\n00:44:23.850 --> 00:44:24.040\n.\n\n1006\n00:44:24.040 --> 00:44:27.680\nWhat's a random fact about you that few people would know?\n\n1007\n00:44:27.680 --> 00:44:34.990\nMy favorite meal that I indulge once a week is a cheeseburger and fries and one\n\n1008\n00:44:34.990 --> 00:44:36.360\nBud Light.\n\n1009\n00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.960\nDo you have a hidden talent?\n\n1010\n00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:43.170\nI'm not sure I would say I have a hidden talent except I'm a really, really,\n\n1011\n00:44:43.170 --> 00:44:43.720\nreally\n\n1012\n00:44:43.720 --> 00:44:44.720\ngood listener.\n\n1013\n00:44:44.720 --> 00:44:47.120\nYou know, I understand you're a marathoner.\n\n1014\n00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:48.560\nWhat was your best time?\n\n1015\n00:44:48.560 --> 00:44:53.200\nMy best time was 358-31 in the Chicago Marathon.\n\n1016\n00:44:53.200 --> 00:44:55.200\nYou beat me by 15 minutes.\n\n1017\n00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:56.200\nThat's great.\n\n1018\n00:44:56.200 --> 00:44:58.960\nI was in the New York mirror, I thought.\n\n1019\n00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.040\nSo what's something about Ireland?\n\n1020\n00:45:01.040 --> 00:45:04.360\nYou'd only know if you had parents who grew up there.\n\n1021\n00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:08.970\nOne of the biggest things you would know is that the culture is incredibly hard\n\n1022\n00:45:08.970 --> 00:45:09.520\nworking\n\n1023\n00:45:09.520 --> 00:45:11.280\nand there's no sympathy.\n\n1024\n00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:12.440\nJust a quick story.\n\n1025\n00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:15.640\nI broke my collarbone when I was in high school playing hockey in Canada.\n\n1026\n00:45:15.640 --> 00:45:18.120\nI spent eight hours in the hospital getting it set.\n\n1027\n00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:22.000\nMy dad, we came home that Sunday night and my mother took my arm and moved it\n\n1028\n00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.440\nup and\n\n1029\n00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.360\ndone it said it's not that bad.\n\n1030\n00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:28.840\nWe don't get a lot of sympathy being from Ireland.\n\n1031\n00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.860\nNow, you mentioned your mother taught you that when you make a mistake, you\n\n1032\n00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:33.440\nknow, own\n\n1033\n00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:34.440\nup to it.\n\n1034\n00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:35.440\nOkay.\n\n1035\n00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.160\nWhat's the single most important thing your father taught you?\n\n1036\n00:45:38.160 --> 00:45:41.280\nMy father taught me is don't go looking for praise.\n\n1037\n00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:43.440\nLike you have a job to do, go do it.\n\n1038\n00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:46.480\nLike this isn't about getting praise no matter what you're doing.\n\n1039\n00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.080\nMy father once said to me when I came in from cutting the grass and I was\n\n1040\n00:45:49.080 --> 00:45:49.920\nlooking for praise\n\n1041\n00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.760\nand he goes, \"He was thanks for doing your job.\"\n\n1042\n00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:54.760\nAnd so there's no-\n\n1043\n00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.440\nSounds like a really good tough Irish family, you know?\n\n1044\n00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:59.440\nYes.\n\n1045\n00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.440\nThat's great.\n\n1046\n00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:01.440\nI love that.\n\n1047\n00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:04.100\nYou know, what would be three bits of advice Tim, you would give to aspiring\n\n1048\n00:46:04.100 --> 00:46:04.640\nleaders?\n\n1049\n00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:09.940\nI would first ask everybody to recognize your integrity is most important and\n\n1050\n00:46:09.940 --> 00:46:10.560\nin larger\n\n1051\n00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:13.200\nsmall, we're all going to get our integrity tested.\n\n1052\n00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:16.930\nBe watching a co-worker be treated unfairly, it could be a tough customer\n\n1053\n00:46:16.930 --> 00:46:17.720\nsituation.\n\n1054\n00:46:17.720 --> 00:46:22.930\nSomebody might ask you to do something, respect the fact that your integrity is\n\n1055\n00:46:22.930 --> 00:46:23.560\nyours and do\n\n1056\n00:46:23.560 --> 00:46:25.560\neverything you can to protect it and grow it.\n\n1057\n00:46:25.560 --> 00:46:27.160\nThat would be my first one.\n\n1058\n00:46:27.160 --> 00:46:28.720\nThe second one, David, work hard.\n\n1059\n00:46:28.720 --> 00:46:32.300\nLike achieving great things and being a leader, there's a certain amount of\n\n1060\n00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:32.840\ntime you have\n\n1061\n00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:33.840\nto put in.\n\n1062\n00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:35.680\nDon't be afraid to work hard.\n\n1063\n00:46:35.680 --> 00:46:38.040\nAnd the last one is be optimistic.\n\n1064\n00:46:38.040 --> 00:46:40.400\nNobody wants to follow a pessimist.\n\n1065\n00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.720\nThere are dozens and dozens and dozens of problems in our world today.\n\n1066\n00:46:45.720 --> 00:46:48.760\nLeaders are not the ones looking down the ground and kicking the dirt and\n\n1067\n00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:49.680\nsaying, \"This\n\n1068\n00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:50.680\nstinks.\"\n\n1069\n00:46:50.680 --> 00:46:53.560\nLeaders are the ones who say, \"Yes, that's a problem.\n\n1070\n00:46:53.560 --> 00:46:54.680\nLet's fix it and make it better.\n\n1071\n00:46:54.680 --> 00:46:55.680\nBe optimistic.\"\n\n1072\n00:46:55.680 --> 00:46:57.720\nAnd people will follow you.\n\n1073\n00:46:57.720 --> 00:46:59.880\nBalance is so important in business.\n\n1074\n00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:02.560\nI mean, this was one of the things that you do.\n\n1075\n00:47:02.560 --> 00:47:07.800\nYou help your clients balance their books, make sure everything's right.\n\n1076\n00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.240\nHow do you make it happen in your personal life?\n\n1077\n00:47:10.240 --> 00:47:11.240\nYeah.\n\n1078\n00:47:11.240 --> 00:47:13.640\nSo you have to work at it.\n\n1079\n00:47:13.640 --> 00:47:16.320\nI've shared with many people balances.\n\n1080\n00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:18.000\nI push and rock up a hill.\n\n1081\n00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:21.260\nIf someone can make it sound easy, but I almost wonder whether they're being\n\n1082\n00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:22.080\nintellectually\n\n1083\n00:47:22.080 --> 00:47:24.600\nhonest, you have to work at it every day.\n\n1084\n00:47:24.600 --> 00:47:28.030\nAnd if you're pushing a rock up a hill, the second you stop, it'll run right\n\n1085\n00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:28.560\nover.\n\n1086\n00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:31.750\nAnd you need to appreciate the fact that it's just like staying shaped on a\n\n1087\n00:47:31.750 --> 00:47:32.400\nmarathon.\n\n1088\n00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.720\nYou've got to constantly stay and shape to do it.\n\n1089\n00:47:34.720 --> 00:47:36.280\nSo you've got to work at it.\n\n1090\n00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:37.600\nAnd I work at it every day.\n\n1091\n00:47:37.600 --> 00:47:40.280\nAnd I have six children, the ages 12 to 20.\n\n1092\n00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:42.520\nAnd I'm not constantly working at that.\n\n1093\n00:47:42.520 --> 00:47:43.520\nIt'll overtake me.\n\n1094\n00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:45.400\nSo it's constant work.\n\n1095\n00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.910\nI've grown and I wish I was more confident when I was younger and early in my\n\n1096\n00:47:49.910 --> 00:47:50.680\ncareer.\n\n1097\n00:47:50.680 --> 00:47:53.400\nI've grown to be more disciplined with my calendar.\n\n1098\n00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.320\nSo I don't have this utopia where I make everything.\n\n1099\n00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:59.450\nBut the things that are important to me are in my calendar and my calendar is\n\n1100\n00:47:59.450 --> 00:48:00.040\nset a year\n\n1101\n00:48:00.040 --> 00:48:01.040\nin advance.\n\n1102\n00:48:01.040 --> 00:48:04.600\nAnd the schools that my kids go to, they must think I'm insane because we're\n\n1103\n00:48:04.600 --> 00:48:05.080\ncalling\n\n1104\n00:48:05.080 --> 00:48:08.120\nit in August to find out what's going to happen in April.\n\n1105\n00:48:08.120 --> 00:48:10.440\nSo massively disciplined with the calendar.\n\n1106\n00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.560\nAnd I've come to appreciate I've got to invest in myself.\n\n1107\n00:48:13.560 --> 00:48:16.360\nAnd that means finding time to make sure I shut down.\n\n1108\n00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:20.280\nSo I'm way more disciplined on my vacation, my weekends than I used to be.\n\n1109\n00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.190\nAnd a combination of those things, constant working, very deliberate planning\n\n1110\n00:48:24.190 --> 00:48:24.760\nand having\n\n1111\n00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:28.220\nthe confidence to shut down throughout different times during the year is\n\n1112\n00:48:28.220 --> 00:48:28.920\nreally important.\n\n1113\n00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:30.600\nI take a week's vacation every quarter.\n\n1114\n00:48:30.600 --> 00:48:32.880\nI would have never done that 10 years ago.\n\n1115\n00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:34.920\nI would encourage people to do that.\n\n1116\n00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:39.120\nWho was the last person you recognized and why?\n\n1117\n00:48:39.120 --> 00:48:42.780\nI would say this partner, I spoke to this morning and he had gone through a\n\n1118\n00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:43.640\nvery difficult\n\n1119\n00:48:43.640 --> 00:48:44.640\ntime.\n\n1120\n00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:46.560\nAnd at the end of it, I thanked him for what he's doing.\n\n1121\n00:48:46.560 --> 00:48:48.200\nI thanked him for persevering.\n\n1122\n00:48:48.200 --> 00:48:49.880\nI thanked him for sticking through.\n\n1123\n00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.660\nI think you've got to constantly recognize people who are going through who\n\n1124\n00:48:53.660 --> 00:48:54.320\naccomplish\n\n1125\n00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:57.200\nthings or who have gone through challenging times.\n\n1126\n00:48:57.200 --> 00:49:01.350\nFor me, when people achieve a successful outcome, applying new piece of\n\n1127\n00:49:01.350 --> 00:49:02.240\ntechnology,\n\n1128\n00:49:02.240 --> 00:49:05.720\nwhat do you do a client, making a hard decision around quality?\n\n1129\n00:49:05.720 --> 00:49:10.750\nI want to recognize those, but it's even people who just survive through a\n\n1130\n00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:11.200\ntough day.\n\n1131\n00:49:11.200 --> 00:49:12.360\nAnd you've got to recognize them.\n\n1132\n00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:16.970\nI've learned over time a pat in the back, a recognition goes way longer than\n\n1133\n00:49:16.970 --> 00:49:17.680\nanything\n\n1134\n00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.680\nelse.\n\n1135\n00:49:18.680 --> 00:49:21.320\nAnd I recognize this partner I spoke to this morning for an hour.\n\n1136\n00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:22.680\nWell, Tim, I think, you know, thank you.\n\n1137\n00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:24.480\nI don't know if it's one word or two words.\n\n1138\n00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.040\nI think that's the most powerful thing.\n\n1139\n00:49:26.040 --> 00:49:29.080\nYou can say to anybody when you see them really doing a good job.\n\n1140\n00:49:29.080 --> 00:49:32.640\nIt's just a powerful, powerful phrase that needs to be said more often.\n\n1141\n00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:37.610\nAnd I want to thank you for just being so open and honest and giving us your\n\n1142\n00:49:37.610 --> 00:49:38.560\nleadership\n\n1143\n00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:39.720\ninsights today.\n\n1144\n00:49:39.720 --> 00:49:41.480\nAppreciate it very much.\n\n1145\n00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:42.560\nThank you, David, for having me.\n\n1146\n00:49:42.560 --> 00:49:43.560\nThank you for your work.\n\n1147\n00:49:43.560 --> 00:49:45.800\nTake care of yourselves.\n\n1148\n00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:56.520\nWell, I have to tell you, I really appreciate the people at PWC who spoke up\n\n1149\n00:49:56.520 --> 00:49:58.320\nand sparked\n\n1150\n00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.560\nthat conversation in 2016.\n\n1151\n00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:05.610\nAnd I appreciate that Tim was willing to listen to his team and then pivot his\n\n1152\n00:50:05.610 --> 00:50:06.480\nwhole company\n\n1153\n00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.520\nto focus on diversity and inclusion.\n\n1154\n00:50:09.520 --> 00:50:14.870\nListening takes courage and time and empathy and true humility to see the\n\n1155\n00:50:14.870 --> 00:50:16.280\nwisdom of someone\n\n1156\n00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.560\nelse's perspective.\n\n1157\n00:50:18.560 --> 00:50:22.360\nAnd now it's time for me to give you a little coaching.\n\n1158\n00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.200\nThis week is part of your weekly personal development plan.\n\n1159\n00:50:25.200 --> 00:50:27.840\nI've got a fun challenge for you.\n\n1160\n00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.200\nAnd this one might even test you.\n\n1161\n00:50:30.200 --> 00:50:33.850\nLook at your calendar and pick one meeting where you know there's going to be a\n\n1162\n00:50:33.850 --> 00:50:34.520\ndiscussion\n\n1163\n00:50:34.520 --> 00:50:37.240\nabout an important decision.\n\n1164\n00:50:37.240 --> 00:50:41.360\nThen during that meeting, don't offer your opinion.\n\n1165\n00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:43.120\nJust listen.\n\n1166\n00:50:43.120 --> 00:50:44.920\nAsk questions.\n\n1167\n00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:49.080\nDraw out the wisdom and perspective of your team.\n\n1168\n00:50:49.080 --> 00:50:54.380\nI think you're going to be amazed at how much you learn and how much better\n\n1169\n00:50:54.380 --> 00:50:55.280\nprepared you're\n\n1170\n00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:59.960\ngoing to be when it comes time to make the decision.\n\n1171\n00:50:59.960 --> 00:51:01.920\nGive it a try.\n\n1172\n00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.160\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1173\n00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:08.520\nWhat we learned today is that great leaders listen to different perspectives.\n\n1174\n00:51:08.520 --> 00:51:13.000\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every\n\n1175\n00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:13.760\nThursday you\n\n1176\n00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:18.400\nget to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1177\n00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:22.430\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1178\n00:51:22.430 --> 00:51:23.280\napply to your\n\n1179\n00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.160\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1180\n00:51:27.160 --> 00:51:37.160\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1181\n00:51:37.160 --> 00:51:59.620\n[ Silence ]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Tim Ryan, US chair and senior partner of PricewaterhouseCoopers, one of the top accounting and consulting firms in the world. And now you don't get elected by your partners to this kind of position if you're not absolutely at the top of your game. And Tim sure is, he is one of the smartest guys I know. But that doesn't mean he has all the answers. In fact, in his words, he drives himself crazy with listening, he's always seeking out more data points and drawing out different perspectives. It's really at the heart of how PwC serves their clients and formulate strategy. And you know, that willingness, and I'd go so far as to say eagerness to listen has also empowered him to make some really bold decisions. Right after he was elected to his role in 2016. There was a tragic, racially charged shooting in Dallas, Tim listened to his employees rousing response. And it motivated him to drastically shift his entire leadership strategy to focus on racial injustice. And that's the big leadership lesson waiting for you today. When you know how to listen to different perspectives, you can make even the toughest decisions from a place that's informed, and empathetic. And that's definitely the mark of a great leader. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Tim Ryan.

Now, as we're learning, every leader has their own unique style, something that sets them apart. And I'd venture to say that Tim has embraced diversity and inclusion as a business driver, and I'm talking about a real business driver, with a courage and passion like no other CEO, Tim, thanks so much for taking the time to have this conversation.

Tim Ryan 2:18

Thank you, David. It's great to be here. I really appreciate your work. And I'm looking forward to the conversation.

David Novak 2:23

Tim, I have to ask you, as we get started, I want to get your whole story here. But what was that watershed moment that you had that made you decide to put diversity and equality as your real focus of your leadership?

Tim Ryan 2:37

David, it's interesting, I had the privilege of being elected chairman and senior partner by my partners in the spring of 2016. at PwC, we're a democracy it's one partner, one vote. I tell people, it's similar to the United States, but a lot more civil. And I tried this vote. And when I ran for senior partner I had I had a really good plan it had, we were going to grow, we were going to gain market share, we were going to transform enter new markets. And if you saw it, I hope you would agree it was a really good plan. One week into my first week as chairman and senior partner that Friday was when we had shootings in Dallas. I woke up that Friday morning, that my leadership team together and it was clear something had happened in our country in the summer of 2016. And I reached out to our people, like many CEOs did at the time. And it was a fairly unremarkable email that I sent it simply said, I know we're hurting. I know there's things on your mind. But what happened afterwards was was very remarkable. We heard from hundreds and hundreds of our people. And one person summed it up best. They said, when I came to work Friday morning, the silence was deafening. And for me, it really hit me here are charging privilege with leading 55,000 people. And yet they were coming within the four walls of PVC and couldn't talk about it. And it was that day that I threw that really good plan out the window. What I realized on that day is if I can inspire and help our people, remarkable things will happen. Like the goals I had my plan were outcomes. What I was really missing was the fact that you gotta motivate, inspire, protect people, and great things happen. And so it was my first week as chairman, senior partner, that we really did a major pivot.

David Novak 4:19

Wow, that's amazing. And I understand shortly thereafter, you had a firm wide conversation on on on race. Now, what compelled you to do that?

Tim Ryan 4:29

Well, it became clear as PwC like many large organizations, we were 1015 years into a diversity, strategy and programs. We had all the training all the programs, measurement, different groups for for 10 years. What became clear in that early part of July 2016, is that we were uncomfortable talking about race in the point where literally people weren't sure whether us were black or African American or black and brown, and it became clear we had missed the foundation, the foundation of true understanding what it's like to be in somebody's shoes, what it's like to be black in the workplace, what it's like to be black in our communities and come to work and, and go back to your communities. So we made the decision, or I made the decision ultimately to tuck the firm down on July 21 2016. To have a day long discussion on race. You can imagine as a young new CEO, there were many who felt that was a good idea, and many who felt it was too risky one, when fortune 50 CEO said Tim, it's going to blow up in your Blink blankety blank face. If you do this, we ultimately decided to do it, David, because we needed to understand each other, we needed to get raw, we needed to really understand what it was like. And then as in by in doing so that would then set the foundation for for moving forward. I won't go into details in the day right now. But one person said at best we said in that day, we shed more tears on that day than we did in our 160 year history. And I had the ability to participate in Atlanta and New York that day. And it was remarkable. What did you learn Tim, I learned that we had people who were coming to work with with things in their minds that I could have never understood. So again, as a young CEO, my my mindset was, we're going to every day you come to work, you take the hill, you serve our clients while you transform the firm, you're 100%. All in, what I learned is we had people coming to work and we had black professionals, who were felt like they're being watched in our hallways, they felt unsafe. And so there I am naively thinking, we're all marching to the same mission, we have a great strategy agree where to go. And people have more basic things in their minds, I learned that some of our black professionals carry their driver's license in their PwC business card. So if they get pulled over, they can show that they could afford the car, I learned that some of our black professionals, when they're going out to play a softball game in Central Park, and they take their work shirt off and they put their T shirt on, they feel like they're being watched because they their people who view them as unsafe in the office, I learned that some of our black professionals teach their children sons how to get pulled over by the police things I could have never understood that I now had a beginning to understand more and more what was on our people's minds. And I knew we needed to address it.

David Novak 7:22

Now you had one CEO tell you this thing was gonna just blow up in your face. And I'm sure you know, I've been in a lot of meetings internally where you know, you want to make an effort like this. And people say, Hey, come on, Tim, you know, we got a business to run, you know, how do you muster up the courage to do that? Because it looks easy now, but out back then you're new? You know, you want to get the results. How do you muster up that courage? Hi,

Tim Ryan 7:46

David, I had one of my closest friends in the firm. And even to this day, he's still my closest friends. He called me up and he said, Tim, he said, Be careful, this isn't what we elected you for. And, and again, one of my closest friends. And I asked him to simply participate and learn. I think courage is interesting word we often associate courage with, like taking a hill and loud voices. The courage sometimes is a willingness to listen. And I really tried to listen to all the different perspectives. And what I tried to do in that case is, is get this personal column Fred, that's not his name. I asked him just to participate, learn with an open mind. And what happened is he he met me halfway, he realized it. So the courage was willing to listen to him and not not getting angry, not get mad, not not get upset, he couldn't see what I was beginning to understand. And part of it was really trying to be that bridge builder to get him to understand. And I think that's really like, ultimately, you need to make decisions, no doubt about it. And that is a sign of there's a really important sign of a leader. But decisions after getting a lot of input in appreciating different perspectives.

David Novak 8:55

So it sounds like when you get challenged, your first instinct is the lesson.

Tim Ryan 8:59

Yeah, so I drive myself crazy with listening, I am a constant listener. I'm a big believer in understanding the different perspectives of how you come at a problem, ultimately, very willing to make a decision. But it's rare that I would make a hasty decision. I'm a big believer that leaders collect data points. And your job is to accumulate multiple data points, and then assemble the data points I share with people often. I'm without a doubt not one of the smartest people in the world. But I'm a really good listener. And I'm smart enough to know if there's enough people pointing to something over here a good thing or a bad thing and opportunity or problem, then that's where I need to go. And I find it's a little bit humbling because definitely not the most intelligent person but a really good listener and then you know where to go.

David Novak 9:44

Well, you've learned one plus one equals three, it increases your IQ points, which is great. Now, you also you didn't just focus internally, you started a CEOs Taking Action Group. Tell us about it.

Tim Ryan 9:56

Yeah, so David asked, literally that day Hey, we ended on July 21, I was walking out of the office, and one of our black managers, which is roughly 68 years of experience. He said to me something to the effect of Tim, thank you for today. It was great. Thank you for leadership. I really appreciate it. We need it. He said, But can I ask you a question? He said with a brand at PWC. Watch your role outside of PVC. And, and I will admit, David, I thought to myself, gosh, can I just say breathe, I can I we just pull this really risky day off, it didn't blow up or getting news from all over the country that are gone well, but the more I thought about it that night again, listening, the more I thought about it, he was right. I sit in incredibly privileged seat at serving, ultimately at the confidence of my partners, but but I have a major responsibility to the communities and our clients. And the more I thought about it, I'm like, God, He is right. He is right. And so I began talking to people I began trying to listen to what is the role of the business community again, it's the summer of 2016. It's we've come a long way in four years around purpose and ESG, and role of a corporation but summer 2016, it was way less clear. And so what I did as I began to talk to people that I respected, so I spent a lot of time with David Taylor, the Chairman and CEO of Procter and Gamble, I spent a lot of time with a man by the name of Ron Parker, who is the Chairman and CEO of the Executive Leadership Council. And we began talking about what is the role of business. And what we realize is there was a void, there was a void of how do we help all of us become way better at something we were very uncomfortable on, which is the topic of inclusion and diversity. And so that was the ultimate formation. So I listened to our black professional, I got other inputs. Clearly, we did play a role. And then I got the help of other CEOs.

David Novak 11:49

What's really incredible about all this is this happened well before the the George Floyd, tragic incident that happened and the other things that have just kind of, I mean, amazed, everybody, just how can it possibly happen in our country? And now you've made a new commitment to fight racial injustice, what are you doing now?

Tim Ryan 12:13

The thing when I maybe first when I look at George Floyd, is that murder and that that killing is is incredibly tragic, well will be even more tragic is if we if we don't use it as a springboard opportunity to improve. What would inspire me from George Floyd's killing is now all across our country. And in many cases all across the world, we're now the majority were beginning to understand it's really where we were in 2016. Understanding the burden that our black fellow Black Americans and black citizens across the world are carrying. And that that inspires me and gets me excited that because I truly believe the more we understand, then we can care more. I believe in many cases, I'll put myself in this bucket. Prior to 2016. I was unintentionally ignorant. And what's happening now is we're really understanding a lot more. And so many millions of people are saying I had no idea. And now that I understand I'm called to do something. And what I'm inspired now is we have the opportunity to do something. So what are we doing? at PwC, we've made a number of commitments inside PWC. And on top of everything else we're doing the two that I'm most proud about to talk about, because there's six I won't spend all the time going through sixth. One is we're giving every one of our people 40 hours a year, pay time, additional on top of everything else we do, to go spend in the community anyway, they want nonprofit NGO local policymakers to really drive their passion to make a difference, that's going to be 2.2 million hours into our society to go make a difference in my hope is they'll spend a lot more. The second thing is we've been working very hard over the last several years around driving improvement around recruitment, retention and advancement, pay equity. And I've shared with my people, I'm going to make that data available to them. In many cases a lot. I'm proud of no surprises stolen from important areas. But I want to share that with our people. We've been working really hard. And I'm hoping by highlighting where we have room for improvement will rally around that and work even more better together to go after that. The thing I'm equally excited about David is where we're creating 1000 person startup. And so what we're doing is we're asking every member of CEO action that CEO action.com That's the entity that we started three years ago, we're asking every member to contribute one or more people for a two year fellowship with that those 1000 people work together to work on PolicyMaking at the city, state and federal level, and work collaboratively with our policymakers to really drive racial equality and ultimately eliminate racism in the United States. And we will have scale like nobody else has ever had it before. I've contributed one of my potential successes as the CEO of that group. And in addition to that, we have 20 CEOs who have agreed to serve as the governing body of that group, which were already lined up ready to go. And we also at PwC, will contribute 30 people to that group to start it off right away.

David Novak 15:23

As sad as this may sound, I can imagine a lot of people listening to this podcast and their their eyes are rolling, you know, back, you know, it's like, and because they look at this as diversity inclusion, sort of some sort of project you do off at the off to the side, how have you integrated everything you're doing with diversity and justice and inclusion? How have you integrated that into in your business and actually driving results.

Tim Ryan 15:54

So it's an I appreciate the skepticism, I, they to your point, I can understand a lot of people saying, we've heard this all before some companies treat it as a side project at for us, it's integrated in everything that we do. Just to give you a sense, David, I spent 10 to 15% of my time on diversity inclusion inside the firm. So it is where I spend a significant amount of my time, it's at the heart of everything we do. So when we sit down every year, and we're going through our recruitment plans, we bring on roughly eight to 9000 people a year, both from campuses and experience, hires, we're talking about representation, we're talking about how are we getting the right talent in. So it's part of that it's not off to the side every year when we go through our people plans. It's part of what we're doing every year, when we go through our talent succession process. It's part of what we do, when we look at how we serve our clients representation is critical at the team level. When we go through how we deal with our governing matters. It's part of that. So everything we do, as part of that I share with people I share internally and externally, it is critically important to understand that diversity inclusion is not only from my perspective, the right thing to do, I think as leaders, we have a responsibility to make sure everybody can succeed. It's what's great about this country, and we have opportunity to create a level playing field for everybody to succeed, it's the right thing to do. If that doesn't get you the business case is overwhelming. The reality is the demographics are changing in our country and our world dramatically. And customers will vote with their feet if they don't have diverse perspectives. And there's a burning need to make sure in our case, we have diverse teams to serve the very best clients, we have the privilege of serving some of the best brands in the world. And if those brands don't see us as represent their their customer base, they're going to question whether they're getting the right diverse views. And lastly, our government is changing that they're going to add a necessity get dragged into this. So it's better to own the issue, as opposed to not own the issue. So everything we do, it's embedded in how we run our firm.

David Novak 17:56

You know, just to be clear up, you know, I take my hat off to what you're doing. I'm not one of those skeptics, I think what you're doing is you're leading the way and making it happen here. Now, the other thing is, Tim, you've got PwC has 1000s of clients in in over 150 countries are a great global organization. What advice are you giving your clients on how to handle COVID-19?

Tim Ryan 18:20

Yeah, thank you, David. So what COVID-19 Unquestionably has accelerated strategies that were already in existence. So what we're seeing is many, many companies are realizing the transformation, they're underway, the digital transformation that they were under way, has just been accelerated. So assuming for a second, you're not one of these massively hard hit industries like entertainment, travel airlines, which my heart goes out to them, because beyond anything they can control their businesses have been upended. I'll put those into one group. When I look at other companies in other industries, finance, insurance, banking, asset management, manufacturing, health care, entertainment, what we're seeing is their strategies have been accelerated it COVID is in a change, it's an acceleration. What we are advising our clients is to move deliberately, and move quickly arrived accelerating their strategy, because what's amazing is we've all had this shared experience, having gone through this as a world, take advantage of that shared experience. We're also advising that executives need to be in the details, it is very hard to change an organization is 100,000 people, 50,000 people, 20,000 people, and the change matters at the human level. And we're advising our clients at the senior management level. Be in the trenches with your people, explain to them the changes explain why you're doing this gets the hearts and minds. The reality is many, many of our millions of workers around the country in the world. They're worried about their own technology relevance, they're worried about their job security, what it means to them. We're encouraging the drive transformation at the human level, explain what you can be transparent about what you don't know. And we think that sets a platform to really get the transformation faster than people looking for this, you

David Novak 20:12

all make so much sense. But we just talked about two subjects. We talked about the racial injustice COVID-19 ID, with all this negativity going on, Tim, you know, how do you keep yourself up?

Tim Ryan 20:25

Yeah. So thanks, David, I'll share with you something that I did, believe it or not, about four weekends ago, I wrote a letter to my partners, to be opened in 2014. And the reason I did that is because one of the things that I've come to understand through watching other leaders learning from our leaders is things will pass. Like in the moment, things always seem massively, massively challenging. And what I did in this letter that I'm going to have my board approve and have it opened in 2040, is lay out what our mindset is right now. And let's be candid, it's a scary world right now. Many companies don't know what their revenue demand is going to be. Hundreds of 1000s of business will go under or be impaired. It's a challenging time right now. And what I'm trying to do in this letter is I laid out, here's why we made it, and we thrived. And we focused on the things that we can control. And we focus on things that are guided by our purpose, whether how we treat our people, we treat our clients where we invest, even though it's harder to invest today. So for me, when it gets challenging, I try to take my head up above the cause because I am in the details. I believe great leaders need to be the details. And I try to look back at other crises and other challenging times. And we always make it and we make it because we have the fortitude to look ahead and understand that it will be okay. And I'm a big believer in your focus on weed control. I advise hundreds of companies and at a personal level dozens of CEOs, there's a lot of scary stuff, geopolitics, the pandemic that we can't control. What we can control is how quickly and how confidently we react to change. And I tried to do that. You know, Tim, I

David Novak 22:08

hope I'm around in 2040 when that that letter is published to the Wall Street Journal so you know you've been at PwC for over 30 years and but I understand you actually want to your your first big job was in a working in the supermarket. What did you learn about customers and and having a growth mindset in that job?

Tim Ryan 22:29

Yes, Sir David, with all due respect, where I went to college at Babson College, I learned more at the supermarket than I ever did anywhere else. The supermarket is still in existence today. My my brother and my brother in law, my sister in law, they all work there still. What I learned there, first of all, is the customer's always right, and I'm learning humility to know the customer's always right. And while I'm the now when a client service business, it's the same thing like our, our customers are the people you have to listen to. And I believe any business that loses sight of the fact that customers are the ones who pay the bills. More importantly, they're the ones that guide you where to take your business. I learned that at the supermarket. And it's grown to take on bigger things over the last 30 years. But fundamentally, the customer's always right. Around growth mindset, I'll just share with you a quick story that I've shared from time to time. When I was at the supermarket my sophomore year in college, it was only eight stores is this family owned chain. And at the time, they were expanding nine to nine but to 10 they were jumping from a opening two stores at the same time. And I'll never forget when I was working the floor one day the the owner Pat Roche, him and his brother are independent by Roche. Pat used to come in all the time he knew us we knew him. And he came up to me asked me how I was doing. And I said to Pat, I said I'm doing okay, I said but I got something on my mind. A lot of us are concerned you're growing too fast. And we're worried about eroding the brand and worried that maybe we're we're gonna lose the edge we have of serving the customer better than anybody else. And of course, David, I was a sophomore in college, I had every answer in the book. At that point, I had taken an accounting class and economics class. And Pat said to me, he said, Tim, he pointed to the sign. Outside, he goes, that's mine and buds name and the sign. He goes, I'm worried about the risk of growing too fast. I want you to know that. Like I don't take that for granted. And then what he did is he goes he pointed over to my brother Pat, who at the time had made his career choice, he was going to work there full time and he's still there today for power roads pointed to my brother Pat and he said what I also know is that if I don't create opportunities for people like your brother Pat to stay in grow, I'm going to lose them. And David, that's when I learned why growth is so important that growth isn't a number on a page growth isn't something you can boast about and talk about. Look what I did. If you're not constantly growing your best talents gonna walk out the door. You're in, it's to be in the end. And I learned that from Pat Roche. And to this day, I'm very focused on growing our firm. Not so I can have written about, look how great Tim or PBC did, because that talent that I'm interested in growing them and helping them achieve great career opportunities. If I'm not going to firm I'm gonna have that great talent walk out the door. Pat Roach taught me that Superman.

David Novak 25:22

Wow, that's great. Then you go from the supermarket to PVC, and that's a long time ago. Do you remember your first day on the job?

Tim Ryan 25:30

Oh, god. Yeah, June 13 1988 was my anything that first day I did. My. So he came from a very working class family. My mother worked at a supermarket. I remember her telling me every day I called her aunts were in the winter, how hard it was to work there. My dad worked three jobs. And I was the first one to graduate college at the time. My mother helped me buy my clothes. My first day, we went to Sears and Roebuck at the denim law. And we bought my clothes and a couple of nice suits, couple really nice polyester ties. And that first day, I was really nervous, needless to say, and we were sitting in the training room and it was again, June it was hot as heck. And as the day wore on, it got very, very, very hot. And everybody was taking their jackets off. And as I noticed everybody taking their jackets off, they all had white, long sleeve cotton shirts on. I knew underneath my jacket, I had a short sleeve polyester shirt on. I was embarrassed, David, I was embarrassed. And I ultimately took it off, because I was the only one in the room with the suit coat on. And after I took it off, I felt everybody was looking at me. And I felt like I didn't belong. I felt like this is the wrong place for me. I don't fit in. I'm not like the others. At lunchtime, one of the instructors took me down to Filene's Basement, which is a department store. And he bought me two white cotton shirts, and he showed me the right ones to wear. That person is now one of my partners today. And that's why I'm here 30 years later, because it's about people. It's about helping people understand the right things, understand how to fit in keeping your own individual identity at the same time, the most important it was about compassion.

David Novak 27:19

I love that story. In here you are now you've climbed the ladder, you're at the top of the organization, what was the biggest obstacle you had to overcome to get to where you're at?

Tim Ryan 27:31

I would say, without a doubt, it was the transition of realizing that in your first several years, you can do a lot yourself. For me, it was the realization that if you want to keep progressing, you got to come to the realization you can't do it all yourself. And for me, that road was bumpy, quite frankly, there were times where I would I would work. And again, you need to work hard to be a leader. But there were times where I was working around the clock because I felt this insecure need to do everything myself and to get it done right, which you can do that at one level. But by the time you get to certain levels and the responsibility comes so big. If you don't learn to trust others and give them guidance, and let them show what they have, you ultimately will have a ceiling and frankly, in my career, I've seen hundreds and hundreds of people hit a ceiling, because they can't get over that comfort level. For me it was growing to understand that and I would say my last 10 years, that has been an incredible journey, it's really been rewarding to see so many other people grow, which not only contributes to their growth, it contributes to the firm's growth as well. But letting go David was really hard.

David Novak 28:46

You're obviously a purpose driven leader. I mean, how would you define your company's Northstar?

Tim Ryan 28:54

Yeah, for our purposes, building trust in society, and solving important problems. In every decision we make goes through that lens, every decision, just give you a recent example, which frankly is still playing out before our eyes. I don't know how this will end. But in mid March, when we saw the pandemic hit, we knew that the biggest thing on our people's minds was their health of them, their families and their loved ones. As a professional service firm. There wasn't much I could do for our people there except say don't travel work from home. And we're here if you need us. But the second biggest thing that was in our people's minds was their job security. We have 55,000 people who are caring for a couple of million family members, friends and communities. And we knew economic uncertainty was the second biggest thing on their mind. I got my team on the phone and webcast in the span of a two week period. I talked to my board and I said we need to help our people. We need to let them know they don't need to worry about their jobs. And we came out at the end of March and we said we will do layoffs as a last resort. And we can My David, in March and even sitting here today, we don't know what revenues are going to be like the economy is so uncertain. But we made that through the prism of our purpose, which is if we're serious about solving important problems, if we're serious about making sure we're building trust, we owe it to our people to say we're going to do it as an absolute last resort. And as I sit here now, five months into this journey, yeah, the business is suffering in certain areas, no doubt about it. But our people see that we're leading with our purpose. And we're carrying them and Frank, I hope that pays dividends on the outside. But I can tell you this, they trust us, because we're leading from the front. And so for me, that purpose statement drives every lens that we go through.

David Novak 30:41

Strategy is so important, and you're in a business that is constantly changing has to change with your, with your clients. How do you stay on top of trends? And how do you lead the strategic process as a CEO?

Tim Ryan 30:56

Yeah, so we're constantly not only talking with each other, but we're constantly listening to our clients, I joke with people, we don't have to be the smartest people in the world, we have to listen to our smartest clients, because we have the privilege of reaching 1000 companies within the fortune 1000. Because we're constantly dealing with hundreds of startups, we're listening again, go back to collating data points. So for me, it's not only this into my team, and my people at every level in the organization, it's been on the road constantly up until this world now it's virtual, it's listening, it's looking and seeing what's working. And so what we realize is that if we listen to our clients, and the people that make up the business community, and are the stakeholders, we know what to do. And what's driven our strategy very clearly, is we believe the marketplace is telling us three fundamental things. And this has been this way for four years. So this is not a reaction to COVID. The Marketplace desperately wants things to be more digital. And they've told us that if we listen, that's what they're telling us. They're also telling us they want more value, whatever they get from us, they want more value. And they're also telling us that cost matters like in a labor constrained world, again, pre COVID, you can't keep passing on Hey, Kong cost, those three things cost value digital, that is formed our strategy, and we had been resolute in driving that strategy. So the planning process is listening to what the world is telling us and not just our clients, but the communities, our people, and then executing that strategy is constant, constant communication. And in laser focus on what matters. One of the hardest parts of my job. Honestly, David, is respectfully telling people good idea, but it doesn't fit with where we're going. And we have to be laser focused on what matters. And for us, that's cost value in digital. Tim, you

David Novak 32:46

deal with all clients, you said in the supermarket business you learned the customer's always right. Well, that's not always true. Okay. You know, I mean, sometimes you got a real tough client. And that isn't right. You know, what can you tell us about your worst client experience and how you handled it?

Tim Ryan 33:05

Yeah. So what I would tell you is anything in our business, our clients pay us and they want our best advice. That doesn't mean we always agree upfront, like our best partners are the ones who can present somebody to a client a point of view. And then and then work with them either to we we evolve our point of view, or they evolve ours. You mean, the middle depends on the facts. I had the privilege of, of being a partner in the financial crisis. And I would not call it My worst experience, I would actually call it My best experience. But it was the hardest one, it was the hardest one. When I was working with this client, I had a great team. So I frankly made the pivot of not doing everything myself. And this is important, because if I had tried to do everything myself, we would have surely gotten the wrong answer. So a grown enough, as a leader to know, you've got to trust your team. And we saw some challenges, like we saw some challenges in there at the company, and we worked with the management team at the time we worked with the board and, and ultimately over a long period of time, we just couldn't get there it despite trying to get there, trying to help them to see what we saw. And ultimately, I had to make a decision. And then they notwithstanding all the listening and all the consulting, and I didn't go in alone. I ultimately had to make a decision, which at the time was the hardest decision I've ever made in my career, which was simply to tell him I we and I can't get there. We can't get over their point of view. And I'll never forget David walking back in midtown Manhattan in early February 2008. And I had given the client my final answer after months and months and months of deliberation, intense deliberation, and trying to help get them over to where we were. And I'll never forget feeling like my career was over. Like who would want somebody who's that tough and that hard. And I'll never forget going into our office around nine o'clock at night at 300 Madison in New York. And I went up to the 30 First floor, which is where my bags were, and my desk was. And when I got there, there were 40 people waiting for me. And what I realized is, even though I felt alone, I wasn't alone. And surely it was a very challenging client experience. But I realized that evening, a couple of things. Number one, I wasn't alone, even though I had to make the decision. I had the full firm backing me, including the senior partner at the time was there, the role I have now, it helps me to understand now with 55,000 people, I don't need to make every decision. But I need to back my teams, when they do make a decision, and have to follow all of our process. If they haven't gone it alone. My job is pretty simple. I made sure they followed our process, and I support them. And by the way, I'm happy to tell you that that client today is thriving, and it's one of my best relationships.

David Novak 35:53

You talk about citizen led innovation. What the heck is that?

Tim Ryan 35:58

Yeah, so citizen like it, it flips problem solving. on its head, I believe the way we need to do in the 21st century, the way that many of the clients that I serve in in even even I grew up is your your calling data points and you make decisions to the top. The reality is many businesses are so far flung and so complicated, that we despite best efforts sitting in the center, you can't solve everything. But we all have really smart people. What we've tried to do is we empower our people to make decisions on the ground, I passionately believe that there's very few decisions somebody can make on the ground, they're going to put us out of business. But if you build a culture of not making decisions at the point of the customer, then you ultimately that culture will pull you out of business. So what we've done over the last four years invested in citizen led development, citizen led execution. By the way, David, on my first day of senior partner 2016, I made the decision to go to jeans again, seems pretty obvious today. But with a New York being about 25% of our firm that didn't go over too big in New York, like, you know why we shouldn't be wearing jeans, but they're gonna you know, people don't want to see people in jeans wear the wrong type of jeans, but I did it because I want to help people, I trust you. I trust you to make the right decisions. Fast forward, what we've done the last three years is we have massively empowered our people with technology. We've invested in our people like technology for us in constant digital upskilling is like an employee benefit, like 401k, and healthcare. By us teaching our people those skills, and empowering them to fix things. Their productivity we've seen over the last few years has been staggering, because we're empowering our people with skills and then decision rights to identify micro ways of driving things we've never seen before. I passionately if you teach people to fish, they'll do things the right way, and much better than I could ever do sitting in New York.

David Novak 38:01

That's great. Now, I have to ask you, when you went to the jean dress code did, did you accelerate the the sale of short sleeve shirts? So it was amazing. Everybody's wearing short sleeve shirts, though. You know, I understand you had the honor of speaking at the commencement at Duke in 2019. What was the most important thing you told the students?

Tim Ryan 38:28

Yeah, so. So thank you for that it was it was quite an honor. And what I what I told them was, at the end of the day, you need to know what your moral compasses. And the thing you can never get back is your integrity. And I asked him to think about some of the big challenges in the world. And I talked about where we are in race in the United States. And I talked about some of the some of the leaders that we should look look up and admire at. And I challenged him to think about what their legacy was going to be, and have the courage to make the really hard decisions, I assure them that growth will happen. I assure that ensure that innovation will happen. But will we need now more than ever as courageous leaders and again, as you point out, that was in the spring of 2019. And I asked them to really think about what their legacy is going to be in 30 years, because I truly believe this will be the generation this will be the generation of people that really lead us to more equality in our society. And I think we look at talented people like at Duke and all across our country, in our colleges and our high schools. They'll figure it out if they have the courage to make those decisions. By the way, David as an aside, we're shooting this on on July 20. This Saturday, I'm giving the commencement speech and socially distance to my high school where I went, were by the way I was in the bottom 25% of the class academically and I'm gonna give them the same advice.

David Novak 39:55

That's good. Well, we share a great academic background together. You But yeah, tell us a story about how you go about and inspiring people.

Tim Ryan 40:05

Yeah, it's, it's listening. First, it's listening. It is leading from the front. So I am extremely hands on. So if we have a tough client situation, I'm right out there. leading from the front, I'm talking with the client team, I'm talking with the client. And I'm making sure part of inspiring is showing that I'm in it with you. I'm not directing from the top of the hill. So for me, that's hugely important. But the other one is, David, there's always problems like there's, there's always problems out there. Part of me from an inspiration standpoint is, yes, that's a problem. How do we figure it out together? So I, I believe in empowerment, you've got to go fix the challenges. You've got to fix problems. Sometimes it's showing people we can fix them together. Like let's work on it. Just as inside like, this morning, I spent an hour on the phone with one of our blog partners, who has experienced some challenges. We're inspired to fix them together. Now. We'll fix them together. So it was taking something very challenging, and then saying, okay, break it down to its micro sites. When you do that, and you show together we can get through things that inspires people.

David Novak 41:12

As a firm, you have the great privilege of of tabulated results for the Oscars. So I have to ask you this, you know, what was it like when you learned that lala land was incorrectly named? The movie of the year instead of moonlight? Yeah. Were you in the audience then or Yes. latching on, watch it on TV. Tell us that story. Yep.

Tim Ryan 41:35

So. So I had the privilege of attending that Oscars, that was my first year as senior partner there, obviously an incredibly important client, they trusted us with some amazing responsibilities. I thought that was a night off. And my wife and I were sitting in the audience. You know, my first year was very intense, a lot of stuff going on. And it planned on that being a nice, relaxing evening, watching the great artists get their awards. Once our people came on stage, I knew we had made a mistake, because that we don't we don't belong on stage where the with the back of the show the people who shouldn't be seen, we have a very important responsibility. And we should stay focused on that.

David Novak 42:14

You know, you're in trouble when you see the account. You got it. Yeah, not

Tim Ryan 42:17

so not a group of people you want on stage. But David, for me, it was right. When he came on, I knew there's a problem. And it again, through through years or years of development, my mother taught me something, which is we make a mistake on up to it. And and we clearly had made a mistake. And this is again, an important leadership lesson, because within minutes, I was on the side of the stage with our teams, we're getting all kinds of advice didn't have all the facts at this point. But frankly, I knew enough to know we made a mistake. And I'm very proud of the fact that within a matter of minutes, we're out with a statement that said, we own it, we made a mistake, we're gonna get to the bottom of it. And we did. And I think one of the biggest things leaders need to do is simply own up when you make a mistake. And in this case, the academy was our client. And we clearly made a mistake. And we sat with him publicly and on the issue. And we've significantly improved our processes going forward. So for me, again, an important leadership lesson, which is when you make a mistake just on it, don't don't worry about your brand. Don't worry about vehicle don't worry about risk. If you make a mistake on it, I live by the same bad news only gets worse. And if you've made a mistake, own up to it, and I felt horrible for the artist would work so hard to get that.

David Novak 43:33

Tim it's it's this whole conversation has been so much fun for me. But I like want to have a little bit more fun with you. And ask you a lightning round of q&a. Sure. You're. So what would be the three words that best describe you?

Tim Ryan 43:47

Humble, hardworking, and honest?

David Novak 43:50

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Tim Ryan 43:53

So my biggest pet peeve is when people say we need to be thoughtful when we're debating a problem. Because the implication is that we're not going to be thoughtful.

David Novak 44:03

Who would you want to be for a day and why?

Tim Ryan 44:05

Oh, wow. I would love to be present United States for a day. And why? Because I think we're the best country in the world. And I'd love to tell people that and I'd like to see us come together even more to harness the power of this country.

David Novak 44:23

What's a random fact about you that few people would know?

Tim Ryan 44:27

My favorite meal that I indulge once a week is a cheeseburger and fries and one Bud Light?

David Novak 44:35

Do you have a hidden talent?

Tim Ryan 44:38

I'm not sure I would say I have a hidden talent except I am a really? I'm a really, really good listener.

David Novak 44:44

You know, I understand. You're a marathoner. What was your best time?

Tim Ryan 44:48

Oh, my desk time was 358 31 in the Chicago Marathon

David Novak 44:52

up by 15 minutes. I was in the New York Marathon. So what's something about Ireland, you'd only know if you had parents who grew up there.

Tim Ryan 45:04

One of the biggest things you would know is that their culture is incredibly hardworking. And there's no sympathy and just quick story, I broke my collarbone. When I was in high school playing hockey Canada, I spent eight hours in the hospital getting a set. My dad, we came home that Sunday night, and my mother took my arm and moved it up and down and said, it's not that bad. We don't get a lot of sympathy being from Ireland.

David Novak 45:29

Now, you mentioned your mother taught you that when you make a mistake, you know, own up to okay, what's the single most important thing your father taught you?

Tim Ryan 45:37

My My father taught me is not, don't go looking for praise, like you have a job to do. Go do it. And I get it. This isn't about getting praise no matter what you're doing. My father once said to me when I came in from cutting the grass, and I was looking for praise, and he goes, he goes, thanks for doing your job. And so it's no sounds

David Novak 45:54

like a really good tough Irish family. Yes, great. I love that. You know, what would be three bits of advice, Tim you would give to aspiring leaders,

Tim Ryan 46:04

I would first ask everybody to recognize your integrity is most important and largest small, we're all going to get our integrity tested, it could be watching your coworker be treated fairly, it could be a tough customer situation, and somebody might ask you to do something. Respect the fact that your integrity is yours, and do everything you can to protect it and grow it and it'd be my first one. The second one, do you work hard, they achieving great things. And being a leader, there's certain amount of time you have to put in, don't be afraid to work hard. And the last one is be optimistic. Nobody wants to follow pessimists. There are dozens and dozens, dozens of problems in our world today. Leaders are not the ones looking down the ground and kicking the dirt and saying This stinks. Leaders are the ones who say yes, that's a problem. Let's fix it and make it better be optimistic, and people will follow you.

David Novak 46:57

Balances is so important in business. I mean, you this was one of the things that you do you know, you help your clients, you know, balance their books, make sure everything's right, you know, how do you make it happen in your personal life?

Tim Ryan 47:10

Yeah. So you have to work at it I I've shared with many people, balances, I'm pushing a rock up the hill, like if someone can make it sound easy, but I almost wonder whether they're being intellectually honest. You have to work at it every day. And if you're pushing a rock up the hill, the second you stop, it'll run right over. And you need to appreciate the fact that it's just like saying shaped or marathon, you've got to constantly stay in shape to do it. So you've got to work at it. And I work at it every day. And I have I have six children their ages 12 to 20. And if I'm not constantly working at that, it'll overtake me. So it's constant work, have grown. And I wish I was more confident when I was younger. And early in my career. I've grown to be more disciplined with my calendar. So I don't have this utopia where I make everything. But the things that are important to me are in my calendar, and my calendar is set a year in advance. And the schools that my kids go to, they must think I'm insane. Because we're calling in August to find out what's going to happen in April to massively discipline with the calendar. And I've come to come to appreciate I've got to invest in myself. And that means finding time to make sure I shut down so I'm way more disciplined on my vacation my weekends. And I used to be in a combination OC things constant working very deliberate planning. And having the confidence to shut down throughout different times during the year is really important. I take a week's vacation every quarter, I would have never done that 10 years ago, I would encourage people to do that.

David Novak 48:34

Who was the last person you recognized and why

Tim Ryan 48:39

I would say this partner I spoke to this morning, and he had gone through a very difficult time. And at the end of it, I thanked him for what he's doing. I thanked him for persevering. I thank him for sticking through. I think you've got to constantly recognize people who are going through who accomplished things, or have gone through challenging times. For me. When people achieve a successful outcome, you know, applying a new piece of technology when a new client making a hard decision around quality. I want to recognize those, but it's even people who just make survived through a tough day. And you've got to recognize them. I've learned over time, a pat in the back or recognition goes way longer than anything else. And I recognized this partner I spoke to this morning for an hour.

David Novak 49:21

Well, Tim, I think you know, thank you. I don't know if it's one word or two words. I think that's the most powerful thing you can say to anybody when you see them really doing a good job. It's just a powerful, powerful phrase that needs to be said more often. And I want to thank you for just being so open and honest and giving us your leadership insights today. Appreciate it very much.

Tim Ryan 49:41

Thank you David for having me. Thank you for your work take care yourself.

David Novak 49:53

Well, I have to tell you, I really appreciate the people at PwC spoke up and sparked that conversation and teeth out Since 16, and I appreciate that Tim was willing to listen to his team, and then pivot his whole company to focus on diversity and inclusion, listening takes courage and time, and empathy, and true humility to see the wisdom of someone else's perspective. And now, it's time for me to give you a little coaching. This week as part of your weekly personal development plan. I've got a fun challenge for you. And this one might even test you look at your calendar and pick one meeting where you know, there's going to be a discussion about an important decision. Then during that meeting, don't offer your opinion. Just listen. Ask questions. Draw out the wisdom and perspective of your team. I think you're going to be amazed at how much you learn and how much better prepared you're going to be. When it comes time to make the decision. Give it a try. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders listen to different perspectives. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

David Novak 0:04

Tim Ryan 2:18

Thank you, David. It's great to be here. I really appreciate your work. And I'm looking forward to the conversation.

David Novak 2:23

Tim Ryan 2:37

David Novak 4:19

Wow, that's amazing. And I understand shortly thereafter, you had a firm wide conversation on on on race. Now, what compelled you to do that?

Tim Ryan 4:29

David Novak 7:22

Tim Ryan 7:46

David Novak 8:55

So it sounds like when you get challenged, your first instinct is the lesson.

Tim Ryan 8:59

David Novak 9:44

Well, you've learned one plus one equals three, it increases your IQ points, which is great. Now, you also you didn't just focus internally, you started a CEOs Taking Action Group. Tell us about it.

Tim Ryan 9:56

David Novak 11:49

Tim Ryan 12:13

David Novak 15:23

Tim Ryan 15:54

David Novak 17:56

Tim Ryan 18:20

David Novak 20:12

all make so much sense. But we just talked about two subjects. We talked about the racial injustice COVID-19 ID, with all this negativity going on, Tim, you know, how do you keep yourself up?

Tim Ryan 20:25

David Novak 22:08

Tim Ryan 22:29

David Novak 25:22

Wow, that's great. Then you go from the supermarket to PVC, and that's a long time ago. Do you remember your first day on the job?

Tim Ryan 25:30

David Novak 27:19

I love that story. In here you are now you've climbed the ladder, you're at the top of the organization, what was the biggest obstacle you had to overcome to get to where you're at?

Tim Ryan 27:31

David Novak 28:46

You're obviously a purpose driven leader. I mean, how would you define your company's Northstar?

Tim Ryan 28:54

David Novak 30:41

Tim Ryan 30:56

David Novak 32:46

Tim Ryan 33:05

David Novak 35:53

You talk about citizen led innovation. What the heck is that?

Tim Ryan 35:58

David Novak 38:01

Tim Ryan 38:28

David Novak 39:55

That's good. Well, we share a great academic background together. You But yeah, tell us a story about how you go about and inspiring people.

Tim Ryan 40:05

David Novak 41:12

Tim Ryan 41:35

David Novak 42:14

You know, you're in trouble when you see the account. You got it. Yeah, not

Tim Ryan 42:17

David Novak 43:33

Tim Ryan 43:47

Humble, hardworking, and honest?

David Novak 43:50

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Tim Ryan 43:53

So my biggest pet peeve is when people say we need to be thoughtful when we're debating a problem. Because the implication is that we're not going to be thoughtful.

David Novak 44:03

Who would you want to be for a day and why?

Tim Ryan 44:05

David Novak 44:23

What's a random fact about you that few people would know?

Tim Ryan 44:27

My favorite meal that I indulge once a week is a cheeseburger and fries and one Bud Light?

David Novak 44:35

Do you have a hidden talent?

Tim Ryan 44:38

I'm not sure I would say I have a hidden talent except I am a really? I'm a really, really good listener.

David Novak 44:44

You know, I understand. You're a marathoner. What was your best time?

Tim Ryan 44:48

Oh, my desk time was 358 31 in the Chicago Marathon

David Novak 44:52

up by 15 minutes. I was in the New York Marathon. So what's something about Ireland, you'd only know if you had parents who grew up there.

Tim Ryan 45:04

David Novak 45:29

Now, you mentioned your mother taught you that when you make a mistake, you know, own up to okay, what's the single most important thing your father taught you?

Tim Ryan 45:37

David Novak 45:54

like a really good tough Irish family. Yes, great. I love that. You know, what would be three bits of advice, Tim you would give to aspiring leaders,

Tim Ryan 46:04

David Novak 46:57

Tim Ryan 47:10

David Novak 48:34

Who was the last person you recognized and why

Tim Ryan 48:39

David Novak 49:21

Tim Ryan 49:41

Thank you David for having me. Thank you for your work take care yourself.

David Novak 49:53

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