[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1523/small-language-tweaks-can-boost-gender-equality","id",1523,"title","Small language tweaks can boost gender equality","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.400\nYou know how brutal those PepsiCo personnel reviews were when all of your peers\n\n2\n00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:04.520\nare in\n\n3\n00:00:04.520 --> 00:00:07.720\na room and you're discussing, you know, somebody that worked in marketing and\n\n4\n00:00:07.720 --> 00:00:08.160\nhearing what\n\n5\n00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:11.120\nthe sales perspective was on it, which is really great.\n\n6\n00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:16.920\nWell, sometimes often when referring to a guy working in one of the departments\n\n7\n00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:17.880\n, somebody\n\n8\n00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:24.360\nwould say, \"He's a really great guy,\" which is kind of code for he part of the\n\n9\n00:00:24.360 --> 00:00:25.080\nclub.\n\n10\n00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:26.080\nWe like him.\n\n11\n00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:27.080\nWe hang out with him.\n\n12\n00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:28.080\nHe's a good guy.\n\n13\n00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:29.080\nHe's going places.\n\n14\n00:00:29.080 --> 00:00:33.000\nHe's a great judgment based on potential.\n\n15\n00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.800\nYou don't hear the corollary.\n\n16\n00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:36.840\nShe's a great gal.\n\n17\n00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:39.520\nYou tend to hear for the women, \"What has she done?\n\n18\n00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:40.680\nHas she proven that?\"\n\n19\n00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:43.200\nIt's very, you know, performance oriented.\n\n20\n00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:47.120\nSo when some of us are in those meetings, you hear, \"He's a great guy.\"\n\n21\n00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:48.280\nI said, \"Okay.\n\n22\n00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:49.280\nWhat did he do this year?\n\n23\n00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:51.000\nWhat do you think he can accomplish?\"\n\n24\n00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.600\nAnd the purpose is that let's be more descriptive, and also let's give the\n\n25\n00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:55.520\nbenefit if we're\n\n26\n00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:01.360\njudging people on capability, let's make sure we're judging everyone and giving\n\n27\n00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:01.840\nthem the\n\n28\n00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:06.970\nbenefit of the doubt and that one group doesn't have to over prove their\n\n29\n00:01:06.970 --> 00:01:08.360\nability to perform,\n\n30\n00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:13.000\nto get promoted where the other one gets a message of, \"We believe in you, so\n\n31\n00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:13.480\nwe're\n\n32\n00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:15.740\ngoing to give you,\" even though you haven't proven you can do it, we're going\n\n33\n00:01:15.740 --> 00:01:16.040\nto give\n\n34\n00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:17.040\nyou the shot.\n\n35\n00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:21.120\nSo that's just an example of sort of general language.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",642000,"end_time",722419,"keywords","DEI, gender bias, gender equality, communication, advocacy, micro aggression, culture, Pepsi, PepsiCo","slug","small-language-tweaks-can-boost-gender-equality","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","vGmMREZPJSNVPutdlQ4vD00mhlcjnhnThckLXcjSdRVE","mux_asset_id","hE8AHFnRk4KfMdQcuUwEBK1cqCQFkCVuXmF3WhkxIMU","leader_id",16,"episode_id",163,"updated_at","2025-03-07T15:21:27.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1523/small-language-tweaks-can-boost-gender-equality","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Evolve your culture","evolve-your-culture","Learn how to build a stronger, more diverse culture by making small shifts in the language you use. Plus, get powerful insights into the generational differences happening right now that will impact how you lead.","summary","

Today’s guest is Dawn Hudson, the former President and CEO of Pepsi-Cola North America and former CMO of the NFL.

Now, you don’t work for Pepsi unless you love competition. And Dawn absolutely has that competitive drive to keep pushing for better ideas and bigger impact.

But she’s also passionate about helping leaders build cultures that allow EVERYONE to win.

We may not even realize the ways we’ve allowed assumptions and biases to shape our team’s culture. But they’re real. If we aren’t intentional about eliminating them, they can hamper the growth of our people – and the growth of our organizations, too.

Like every great leader, Dawn understands the power of a strong, diverse culture where everyone can win – and this conversation is full of practical ways YOU can build one.

You’ll also learn:

• Small ways our language can create gender bias in the workplace

• Why you have to pay closer attention to your work culture, especially right now

• What “office housework” is and what every leader needs to know about it

• Key insights into generational shifts in consumers

• What every woman needs to hear before her next performance review

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.070\nWelcome to Howl Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:08.070 --> 00:00:08.860\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.860 --> 00:00:10.940\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.940 --> 00:00:14.330\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:14.330 --> 00:00:14.940\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.940 --> 00:00:18.920\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:21.500\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:26.450\nMy guest today is Don Hudson, the former president and CEO of Pepsi Cola North\n\n9\n00:00:26.450 --> 00:00:27.060\nAmerica\n\n10\n00:00:27.060 --> 00:00:31.100\nand former CMO of the National Football League.\n\n11\n00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:35.300\nNow look, you don't work for Pepsi unless you love competition.\n\n12\n00:00:35.300 --> 00:00:39.770\nAnd Don absolutely has that competitive drive to keep pushing for better ideas\n\n13\n00:00:39.770 --> 00:00:40.460\nand bigger\n\n14\n00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:41.620\nimpact.\n\n15\n00:00:41.620 --> 00:00:45.690\nBut she's also passionate about helping leaders build cultures that allow\n\n16\n00:00:45.690 --> 00:00:47.500\neveryone to win.\n\n17\n00:00:47.500 --> 00:00:51.910\nYou know, we may not even realize the ways we've allowed assumptions and bias\n\n18\n00:00:51.910 --> 00:00:52.460\nto shape\n\n19\n00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:54.020\nour team's culture.\n\n20\n00:00:54.020 --> 00:00:58.350\nBut they're real, and if we aren't intentional about eliminating them, they can\n\n21\n00:00:58.350 --> 00:00:59.300\nreally hamper\n\n22\n00:00:59.300 --> 00:01:03.900\nthe growth of your people and the growth of your organization as well.\n\n23\n00:01:03.900 --> 00:01:09.170\nLike every great leader I know, Don understands the power of a strong, diverse\n\n24\n00:01:09.170 --> 00:01:10.180\nculture where\n\n25\n00:01:10.180 --> 00:01:11.860\neveryone can win.\n\n26\n00:01:11.860 --> 00:01:16.620\nAnd this conversation is full of practical ways you can build one.\n\n27\n00:01:16.620 --> 00:01:21.130\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Don Hudson\n\n28\n00:01:21.130 --> 00:01:21.500\n.\n\n29\n00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:32.300\nDon, I understand you just went through this 100 year birthday celebration.\n\n30\n00:01:32.300 --> 00:01:33.460\nTell us about it.\n\n31\n00:01:33.460 --> 00:01:39.480\nIn October of this year, my husband turned 75 and our daughter turned 25 within\n\n32\n00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:40.180\nfour days\n\n33\n00:01:40.180 --> 00:01:41.420\nof each other.\n\n34\n00:01:41.420 --> 00:01:44.700\nSo we thought, let's take her to Europe.\n\n35\n00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:48.520\nAnd she's about to get married next year to a guy she met at the Culinary\n\n36\n00:01:48.520 --> 00:01:49.260\nInstitute in\n\n37\n00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:50.620\nNew York.\n\n38\n00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.650\nAnd she works for a YouTube chef as a kitchen producer, and he works at Miche\n\n39\n00:01:54.650 --> 00:01:55.180\nlin Star\n\n40\n00:01:55.180 --> 00:01:57.860\nrestaurants, and they love food.\n\n41\n00:01:57.860 --> 00:02:01.390\nAnd her fiance had not been to Europe, and she had only been to London in high\n\n42\n00:02:01.390 --> 00:02:01.980\nschool.\n\n43\n00:02:01.980 --> 00:02:04.100\nSo we said, okay, how many days can you get off?\n\n44\n00:02:04.100 --> 00:02:07.980\nThey got off eight days, and we said, all right, we can cover three markets.\n\n45\n00:02:07.980 --> 00:02:10.900\nWe'll go London, Paris, and Copenhagen.\n\n46\n00:02:10.900 --> 00:02:15.380\nAnd we ate our way through all three, and I am still paying the price of having\n\n47\n00:02:15.380 --> 00:02:16.380\nto exercise\n\n48\n00:02:16.380 --> 00:02:20.660\nespecially hard this week, trying to get the pounds off.\n\n49\n00:02:20.660 --> 00:02:21.820\nThat's fantastic.\n\n50\n00:02:21.820 --> 00:02:26.440\nAnd you know, we both worked at PepsiCo together, and I remember that you were\n\n51\n00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:27.420\njust known for\n\n52\n00:02:27.420 --> 00:02:29.980\nbeing super, super competitive.\n\n53\n00:02:29.980 --> 00:02:33.580\nI mean, you are very competitive and a very good athlete.\n\n54\n00:02:33.580 --> 00:02:38.870\nAnd as I was doing my research, I learned that you do whatever it takes to stay\n\n55\n00:02:38.870 --> 00:02:40.060\ncompetitive,\n\n56\n00:02:40.060 --> 00:02:44.260\nto beat the younger people, whether it's paddle ball, tennis, or our golf.\n\n57\n00:02:44.260 --> 00:02:45.260\nHow's that going?\n\n58\n00:02:45.260 --> 00:02:47.860\nNot on the youngsters, or how are you faring?\n\n59\n00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:52.700\nAll I can say is, I'm still playing in the regular leagues for tennis.\n\n60\n00:02:52.700 --> 00:02:57.390\nSo I compete against 18 plus, and I do that in paddle tennis as well, and I do\n\n61\n00:02:57.390 --> 00:02:57.860\nthat in\n\n62\n00:02:57.860 --> 00:02:58.860\ngolf.\n\n63\n00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:00.220\nSo I have to.\n\n64\n00:03:00.220 --> 00:03:04.020\nAt some point, maybe I'll do the 50 plus or whatever, but I'm not there yet.\n\n65\n00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:07.660\nSo as long as the knees keep moving and I keep running, I'm going to keep doing\n\n66\n00:03:07.660 --> 00:03:08.060\nit.\n\n67\n00:03:08.060 --> 00:03:13.580\nI am the oldest of three daughters born to a father who is one of four boys.\n\n68\n00:03:13.580 --> 00:03:17.220\nAnd a number of them were semi-professional baseball players.\n\n69\n00:03:17.220 --> 00:03:20.100\nSo I became the son he didn't have.\n\n70\n00:03:20.100 --> 00:03:24.620\nAnd I got groomed in sports from the get-go and love sports.\n\n71\n00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:29.400\nAnd I am convinced that the success I've had in business is related, and the\n\n72\n00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:30.620\ncompetitiveness\n\n73\n00:03:30.620 --> 00:03:33.900\nI have to sports, sports analogy.\n\n74\n00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:35.060\nYou're on the tennis court.\n\n75\n00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:37.900\nYou're trying to, it's only you out there.\n\n76\n00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:39.060\nYou've got no complaints.\n\n77\n00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:40.460\nYou can't have any excuses.\n\n78\n00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:42.140\nI sort of learned.\n\n79\n00:03:42.140 --> 00:03:45.540\nBut sports is a big part of my background and a big part of my leadership.\n\n80\n00:03:45.540 --> 00:03:49.030\nI'm really curious to know on the business front, what's a story that would\n\n81\n00:03:49.030 --> 00:03:49.620\nhighlight\n\n82\n00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:55.140\nhow you've evolved to stay competitive as you've grown in your career?\n\n83\n00:03:55.140 --> 00:03:59.370\nWell, you cannot work at Pepsi with Coke in the backyard and not inherently be\n\n84\n00:03:59.370 --> 00:04:00.380\ncompetitive.\n\n85\n00:04:00.380 --> 00:04:05.060\nThe whole nature of the industry, as you know, is it's them or it's us.\n\n86\n00:04:05.060 --> 00:04:08.820\nWe try harder and we move faster and we come up with ideas more quickly.\n\n87\n00:04:08.820 --> 00:04:10.780\nSo definitely be a competition.\n\n88\n00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:17.480\nI believe that you learn and grow as a leader, as an employee, when times are\n\n89\n00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:18.540\ntougher, more\n\n90\n00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:20.540\nso than when times are easy.\n\n91\n00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:24.380\nIt's easy when things are going well to come out with some more, put some more\n\n92\n00:04:24.380 --> 00:04:25.180\nmoney behind\n\n93\n00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:27.340\nit, success, breed success.\n\n94\n00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:29.700\nIt's harder when things aren't going well.\n\n95\n00:04:29.700 --> 00:04:33.850\nAnd I can think of one story in particular that you will have an appreciation\n\n96\n00:04:33.850 --> 00:04:34.460\nwith with\n\n97\n00:04:34.460 --> 00:04:41.350\nyour background where when I was the CEO Pepsi, our largest food service\n\n98\n00:04:41.350 --> 00:04:43.340\ncustomer after Yum\n\n99\n00:04:43.340 --> 00:04:45.340\nwas Subway restaurants.\n\n100\n00:04:45.340 --> 00:04:49.200\nAnd my team in food service was working on renewing Subway and we had all the\n\n101\n00:04:49.200 --> 00:04:49.580\nright\n\n102\n00:04:49.580 --> 00:04:52.140\nmeetings and the right things.\n\n103\n00:04:52.140 --> 00:04:56.350\nAnd you can learn a lot around making sure that you're listening completely,\n\n104\n00:04:56.350 --> 00:04:57.060\nbut we thought\n\n105\n00:04:57.060 --> 00:04:59.140\neverything was going our way.\n\n106\n00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:02.140\nAnd then we got a call and they had selected Coke.\n\n107\n00:05:02.140 --> 00:05:03.460\nAnd that was a dagger to the heart.\n\n108\n00:05:03.460 --> 00:05:05.940\nYou're the largest customer in food service.\n\n109\n00:05:05.940 --> 00:05:06.940\nYou lose.\n\n110\n00:05:06.940 --> 00:05:10.670\nNow you guys, young were happy because it stepped up to be our largest customer\n\n111\n00:05:10.670 --> 00:05:10.740\n.\n\n112\n00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:14.220\nBut at the time it was a lot of volume and it was very visible.\n\n113\n00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:20.640\nAnd I would say the tendency there is to kind of hide and how terrible and you\n\n114\n00:05:20.640 --> 00:05:21.260\nknow,\n\n115\n00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:23.660\nwe'll get on with it and let's go someplace else.\n\n116\n00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:29.820\nBut my reaction was nobody signed on the line yet, deals not done.\n\n117\n00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:30.940\nI'm going to resurrect it.\n\n118\n00:05:30.940 --> 00:05:32.420\nI want to understand why.\n\n119\n00:05:32.420 --> 00:05:35.940\nI called up the CEO of Subway, tracked him down, talked him.\n\n120\n00:05:35.940 --> 00:05:37.420\nI knew he was a fan of ours.\n\n121\n00:05:37.420 --> 00:05:39.340\nThere were a lot of politics going on.\n\n122\n00:05:39.340 --> 00:05:41.340\nSaid let's have another meeting.\n\n123\n00:05:41.340 --> 00:05:42.340\nAnd I think I tried.\n\n124\n00:05:42.340 --> 00:05:47.140\nI got about two weeks of meetings and came close to reversing the decision.\n\n125\n00:05:47.140 --> 00:05:49.900\nDidn't succeed, but came close.\n\n126\n00:05:49.900 --> 00:05:55.660\nAnd so leaning into problems, not running away from them is something that I\n\n127\n00:05:55.660 --> 00:05:56.460\nthink makes\n\n128\n00:05:56.460 --> 00:05:59.340\nfor great employees and great leaders.\n\n129\n00:05:59.340 --> 00:06:04.990\nAnd I think one of the biggest compliments I've gotten in my professional life\n\n130\n00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:05.300\nwas by\n\n131\n00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:08.580\nSteve Reinemann, who was my boss and the CEO of Pepsi at the time.\n\n132\n00:06:08.580 --> 00:06:13.900\nAnd he said, Dawn, he said, you are a person I want in my foxhole with me.\n\n133\n00:06:13.900 --> 00:06:17.580\nYou're the number one person I want to jump in the foxhole with me.\n\n134\n00:06:17.580 --> 00:06:19.860\nAnd I married an army guy.\n\n135\n00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:24.050\nI lived through military analogies, but he was really saying, you know, when\n\n136\n00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:24.620\nthe going\n\n137\n00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:26.300\ngets tough, I want you on my team.\n\n138\n00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:28.140\nAnd I thought that was a great compliment.\n\n139\n00:06:28.140 --> 00:06:29.140\nAbsolutely.\n\n140\n00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:32.570\nAnd, you know, speaking and leaning into big problems, you just wrote a new\n\n141\n00:06:32.570 --> 00:06:33.180\nbook called\n\n142\n00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:34.700\nYou Should Smile More.\n\n143\n00:06:34.700 --> 00:06:38.260\nNow, how to dismantle the gender bias in the workforce?\n\n144\n00:06:38.260 --> 00:06:40.140\nWhat drove you to write this book?\n\n145\n00:06:40.140 --> 00:06:42.460\nAnd what's the big idea behind the book?\n\n146\n00:06:42.460 --> 00:06:44.980\nThe big idea is little ideas, but I'll get to that.\n\n147\n00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:47.260\nSo you interviewed Indra Nui.\n\n148\n00:06:47.260 --> 00:06:53.240\nAnd Indra Nui has a wonderful ability to pull people who have worked at Pepsi\n\n149\n00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:53.980\nwomen and\n\n150\n00:06:53.980 --> 00:06:58.190\ngone on to other interesting places to work back together to break bread, to\n\n151\n00:06:58.190 --> 00:06:58.940\nhave a glass\n\n152\n00:06:58.940 --> 00:07:00.340\nof wine.\n\n153\n00:07:00.340 --> 00:07:03.990\nAnd it was at one of these events in Greenwich when a number of my associates,\n\n154\n00:07:03.990 --> 00:07:05.020\nformer associates\n\n155\n00:07:05.020 --> 00:07:12.980\nat Pepsi got together and we were talking and we were, this was in 2019.\n\n156\n00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:17.490\nWe were kind of laughing at the things that happened to us 20 years ago at\n\n157\n00:07:17.490 --> 00:07:18.300\nPepsiCo and\n\n158\n00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:22.160\nsomebody might have been me made the comment, boy, thank goodness there's more\n\n159\n00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:22.660\nwomen in the\n\n160\n00:07:22.660 --> 00:07:25.180\nworkforce today that doesn't happen.\n\n161\n00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:28.020\nAnd people laughed and said, yeah, because we're all laughing, but some of\n\n162\n00:07:28.020 --> 00:07:28.780\nthese situations\n\n163\n00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:30.580\nweren't so laughable.\n\n164\n00:07:30.580 --> 00:07:34.420\nAnd that caused someone else to say, you know, I just read an article recently.\n\n165\n00:07:34.420 --> 00:07:39.780\nIt actually suggested that while the numbers of diversity, women and people of\n\n166\n00:07:39.780 --> 00:07:40.420\ncolor in\n\n167\n00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:47.130\nthe workforce is significantly higher, the culture and the feeling of inclusion\n\n168\n00:07:47.130 --> 00:07:47.700\nis not\n\n169\n00:07:47.700 --> 00:07:49.260\nchanged much.\n\n170\n00:07:49.260 --> 00:07:52.730\nAnd so a few of us that were challenged to, you know, go learn about it and\n\n171\n00:07:52.730 --> 00:07:53.500\ncontinue the\n\n172\n00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:54.500\nconversation.\n\n173\n00:07:54.500 --> 00:08:01.580\nSo we did, and I was say Katie Lacey and Angelique Belmer and C. Nicholson and\n\n174\n00:08:01.580 --> 00:08:03.460\nMitzi Short and\n\n175\n00:08:03.460 --> 00:08:08.540\nmyself and Lori Marcus, we googled and we read and we actually came back\n\n176\n00:08:08.540 --> 00:08:09.580\ntogether and\n\n177\n00:08:09.580 --> 00:08:11.500\nsaid, you know what, it's shocking.\n\n178\n00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:15.010\nBut there really is a problem here that the numbers are increasing and the\n\n179\n00:08:15.010 --> 00:08:16.020\nculture isn't.\n\n180\n00:08:16.020 --> 00:08:19.580\nAnd at the time, it was very much me too.\n\n181\n00:08:19.580 --> 00:08:24.740\nEveryone was talking about big, big sexual issues in the marketplace.\n\n182\n00:08:24.740 --> 00:08:26.460\nWe weren't talking about those.\n\n183\n00:08:26.460 --> 00:08:30.790\nWe were talking about these little things that happen every day that drove us\n\n184\n00:08:30.790 --> 00:08:31.340\nnuts.\n\n185\n00:08:31.340 --> 00:08:34.910\nAnd if we'd made a big deal of any one of them, we would thought we were really\n\n186\n00:08:34.910 --> 00:08:35.380\nmaking\n\n187\n00:08:35.380 --> 00:08:37.860\na mountain out of a molehill.\n\n188\n00:08:37.860 --> 00:08:39.500\nBut they were important.\n\n189\n00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:43.630\nSo in that summer, somebody heard that we had been talking, this group of us,\n\n190\n00:08:43.630 --> 00:08:43.940\nand they\n\n191\n00:08:43.940 --> 00:08:47.100\nsaid Adweek was doing a festival in New York City.\n\n192\n00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:51.390\nWould we come and talk to some of the employees and advertising about our\n\n193\n00:08:51.390 --> 00:08:52.420\nexperience?\n\n194\n00:08:52.420 --> 00:08:57.420\nAnd we've got some pictures drawn up by a young art director to capture in a\n\n195\n00:08:57.420 --> 00:08:58.180\nhumorous\n\n196\n00:08:58.180 --> 00:09:01.940\nmanner, some of the situations we wanted to talk about.\n\n197\n00:09:01.940 --> 00:09:03.460\nAnd it went well.\n\n198\n00:09:03.460 --> 00:09:06.080\nIt turned out it was the most engaging thing.\n\n199\n00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.180\nPeople could really relate to it and ask questions.\n\n200\n00:09:08.180 --> 00:09:11.560\nIt brought men into the conversation because it wasn't trying to point the\n\n201\n00:09:11.560 --> 00:09:12.100\nfinger.\n\n202\n00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:15.380\nIt was trying to say, \"Hey, if you're in the room, you can help out.\n\n203\n00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:19.580\nLet us educate you around the things that make us feel uncomfortable.\"\n\n204\n00:09:19.580 --> 00:09:23.420\nAnd so many men that read our book and maybe you did say, \"I didn't know that.\n\n205\n00:09:23.420 --> 00:09:25.860\nGeez, that's a new perspective for me.\"\n\n206\n00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:31.720\nNow I understand why you almost called the book still because the stuff that's\n\n207\n00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:32.240\nin the\n\n208\n00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.540\nbook just continues to happen, right?\n\n209\n00:09:34.540 --> 00:09:35.540\nYes.\n\n210\n00:09:35.540 --> 00:09:39.790\nThe reason we call that you should smile more is so of the six of us, I'm the\n\n211\n00:09:39.790 --> 00:09:40.300\nonly one\n\n212\n00:09:40.300 --> 00:09:45.060\nof the six that's never been told in a personnel review that they should smile\n\n213\n00:09:45.060 --> 00:09:45.660\nmore.\n\n214\n00:09:45.660 --> 00:09:49.770\nAnd that's a very personal comment to make to somebody that's not about their\n\n215\n00:09:49.770 --> 00:09:50.700\nperformance.\n\n216\n00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:55.880\nAnd it's not very men I've met who've been told that they should smile more in\n\n217\n00:09:55.880 --> 00:09:56.540\na review\n\n218\n00:09:56.540 --> 00:09:58.300\nof their performance.\n\n219\n00:09:58.300 --> 00:10:01.660\nAnd it's particularly told to women of color.\n\n220\n00:10:01.660 --> 00:10:05.860\nSo when the book was named, you should smile more.\n\n221\n00:10:05.860 --> 00:10:09.940\nAnd you tell a woman that's worked in business, they kind of chuckle.\n\n222\n00:10:09.940 --> 00:10:13.060\nAnd knowingly that this is something that they're often told.\n\n223\n00:10:13.060 --> 00:10:16.970\nI've had many a guy, I feel badly for them to say they see the cover of the\n\n224\n00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:17.900\nbook, \"Oh,\n\n225\n00:10:17.900 --> 00:10:18.900\nyou should smile more.\"\n\n226\n00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:22.300\nAnd they pause and they say, \"That's nice.\n\n227\n00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:24.700\nI should probably smile more too.\"\n\n228\n00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:26.700\nNot understanding.\n\n229\n00:10:26.700 --> 00:10:28.620\nSo again, that's the purpose of the book.\n\n230\n00:10:28.620 --> 00:10:29.620\nIt's not to point fingers.\n\n231\n00:10:29.620 --> 00:10:31.780\nThe purpose of the book to say, \"Let's educate you.\n\n232\n00:10:31.780 --> 00:10:32.900\nYou should know this.\n\n233\n00:10:32.900 --> 00:10:34.060\nThink about it.\"\n\n234\n00:10:34.060 --> 00:10:38.200\nAnd that there's lazy language that's sometimes used in the workforce that can\n\n235\n00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:39.860\nbe misinterpreted.\n\n236\n00:10:39.860 --> 00:10:42.260\nGive me another example of lazy language.\n\n237\n00:10:42.260 --> 00:10:46.040\nYou know how brutal those PepsiCo personnel reviews were when all of your peers\n\n238\n00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:46.380\nare in\n\n239\n00:10:46.380 --> 00:10:49.840\na room and you're discussing somebody that worked in marketing and hearing what\n\n240\n00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:50.340\nthe sales\n\n241\n00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:52.820\nperspective was on it, which is really great?\n\n242\n00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:59.520\nWell, sometimes often when referring to a guy working in one of the departments\n\n243\n00:10:59.520 --> 00:10:59.740\n, somebody\n\n244\n00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:06.190\nwould say, \"He's a really great guy,\" which is kind of code for he part of the\n\n245\n00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:06.940\nclub.\n\n246\n00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:07.940\nWe like him.\n\n247\n00:11:07.940 --> 00:11:08.940\nWe hang out with him.\n\n248\n00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:10.620\n\"Yeah, he's going places.\n\n249\n00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:14.820\nIt's a judgment based on potential.\n\n250\n00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:16.580\nYou don't hear the corollary.\n\n251\n00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:18.660\nShe's a great gal.\n\n252\n00:11:18.660 --> 00:11:21.300\nYou tend to hear for the women, \"What has she done?\n\n253\n00:11:21.300 --> 00:11:22.540\nHas she proven that?\"\n\n254\n00:11:22.540 --> 00:11:25.060\nIt's very performance oriented.\n\n255\n00:11:25.060 --> 00:11:29.060\nSo when some of us are in those meetings, you hear, \"He's a great guy.\"\n\n256\n00:11:29.060 --> 00:11:30.100\nI said, \"Okay.\n\n257\n00:11:30.100 --> 00:11:31.180\nWhat did he do this year?\n\n258\n00:11:31.180 --> 00:11:32.820\nWhat do you think he can accomplish?\"\n\n259\n00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:35.460\nAnd the purpose is that let's be more descriptive.\n\n260\n00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:40.830\nAnd also, let's give the benefit if we're judging people on capability, let's\n\n261\n00:11:40.830 --> 00:11:41.620\nmake sure we're\n\n262\n00:11:41.620 --> 00:11:45.240\njudging everyone and giving them the benefit of the doubt and that one group\n\n263\n00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:45.940\ndoesn't have\n\n264\n00:11:45.940 --> 00:11:52.720\nto over-prove their ability to perform, to get promoted, where the other one\n\n265\n00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:53.900\ngets a message\n\n266\n00:11:53.900 --> 00:11:55.140\nof we believe in you.\n\n267\n00:11:55.140 --> 00:11:57.570\nSo we're going to give you, even though you haven't proven you can do it, we're\n\n268\n00:11:57.570 --> 00:11:57.700\ngoing\n\n269\n00:11:57.700 --> 00:11:58.780\nto give you the shot.\n\n270\n00:11:58.780 --> 00:12:02.940\nSo that's just an example of sort of general language.\n\n271\n00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:09.340\nThese are little teeny things and one would think that when the ranks of women\n\n272\n00:12:09.340 --> 00:12:10.460\nand diverse\n\n273\n00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:15.600\npeople have grown so much in corporate America, that just by sheer virtue of\n\n274\n00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.820\nthere being more\n\n275\n00:12:16.820 --> 00:12:19.580\nof them, that some of these things wouldn't happen.\n\n276\n00:12:19.580 --> 00:12:24.780\nBut I think that's why it's still happening surprised us.\n\n277\n00:12:24.780 --> 00:12:28.940\nAnd yet as we dug into it, it didn't because you have to pretty overtly try to\n\n278\n00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:29.620\nchange some\n\n279\n00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:33.860\nof these very subtle, some people call them microaggressions.\n\n280\n00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:36.420\nThat feels very aggressive to us.\n\n281\n00:12:36.420 --> 00:12:38.220\nSo we call them these micro moments.\n\n282\n00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:41.610\nThey're moments that are important for one person in the room but may not be\n\n283\n00:12:41.610 --> 00:12:42.180\nnoticed by\n\n284\n00:12:42.180 --> 00:12:43.180\nthe others.\n\n285\n00:12:43.180 --> 00:12:48.080\nSo, you know, if you walk in on a Monday morning and the room is talking about\n\n286\n00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:48.900\nSunday night\n\n287\n00:12:48.900 --> 00:12:50.940\nfootball, I'm going to love it.\n\n288\n00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:52.820\nI'm going to participate.\n\n289\n00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:58.400\nBut there very could be somebody else who doesn't participate, doesn't know\n\n290\n00:12:58.400 --> 00:12:59.380\nfootball.\n\n291\n00:12:59.380 --> 00:13:03.390\nAnd if you see that person looking down at their phone during email or whatever\n\n292\n00:13:03.390 --> 00:13:03.860\nduring\n\n293\n00:13:03.860 --> 00:13:05.540\nthe meeting, you want to engage them.\n\n294\n00:13:05.540 --> 00:13:07.780\nSo say, \"Hey, what did you do last night?\"\n\n295\n00:13:07.780 --> 00:13:09.340\nOr try to change the subject.\n\n296\n00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:13.490\nAnd also we advise women in that situation, don't disengage and look at your\n\n297\n00:13:13.490 --> 00:13:14.380\nphone because\n\n298\n00:13:14.380 --> 00:13:19.310\nthat opportunity for camaraderie and discussion is really important to get to\n\n299\n00:13:19.310 --> 00:13:20.100\nknow people\n\n300\n00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:23.260\nand don't just, you know, fade into the corner.\n\n301\n00:13:23.260 --> 00:13:27.570\nYou know, this book is all about gender bias, which, you know, obviously it\n\n302\n00:13:27.570 --> 00:13:28.300\nexists.\n\n303\n00:13:28.300 --> 00:13:32.340\nBut you rose to be the CEO of Pepsi Cola Company.\n\n304\n00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:35.580\nHow'd you break through the clutter as a female leader?\n\n305\n00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:37.020\nI mean, how'd you do it?\n\n306\n00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:38.780\nFirst of all, I didn't set out to do that.\n\n307\n00:13:38.780 --> 00:13:44.180\nI set out to do my job as well as I could to have fun and to have impact.\n\n308\n00:13:44.180 --> 00:13:48.260\nAnd I was lucky along the way to have people that recognize this and gave me an\n\n309\n00:13:48.260 --> 00:13:49.220\nopportunity.\n\n310\n00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:53.780\nI've had one of the book talks about mentors versus sponsors.\n\n311\n00:13:53.780 --> 00:13:55.700\nI've always had a lot of mentors.\n\n312\n00:13:55.700 --> 00:13:59.140\nIt's easy to get in business, people that you, you know, have lunch with, you\n\n313\n00:13:59.140 --> 00:13:59.740\nask questions\n\n314\n00:13:59.740 --> 00:14:04.510\nof, but sponsors, people that will really go to bat for you, I've been lucky to\n\n315\n00:14:04.510 --> 00:14:04.900\nhave\n\n316\n00:14:04.900 --> 00:14:10.100\nfemale and male sponsors that really advocated for me.\n\n317\n00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:14.670\nAnd I will tell you one of the, you know, one of the breakthrough things I\n\n318\n00:14:14.670 --> 00:14:15.260\nthink that\n\n319\n00:14:15.260 --> 00:14:21.620\npropelled my career was getting the national sponsorship of the NFL for Pepsi.\n\n320\n00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:27.640\nAt that particular time, I was chief marketing officer and you know in the\n\n321\n00:14:27.640 --> 00:14:29.740\nbeverage business,\n\n322\n00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:34.210\nwhen it's unaffordable for either Coke or Pepsi to put money on the table to\n\n323\n00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:34.900\nwin every\n\n324\n00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.900\nsingle deal.\n\n325\n00:14:35.900 --> 00:14:39.100\nSo you figure out which ones you go into to be a spoiler for the other guy.\n\n326\n00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:42.500\nI'm going to go in and bid to make Coke's price go up.\n\n327\n00:14:42.500 --> 00:14:45.740\nAnd which ones you're really going to get in there and try to win.\n\n328\n00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:46.740\nAnd the NFL was one.\n\n329\n00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.980\nI think that the PepsiCo thought we didn't have a shot at and we would just go\n\n330\n00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:50.300\nin and\n\n331\n00:14:50.300 --> 00:14:51.780\nbe a spoiler.\n\n332\n00:14:51.780 --> 00:14:53.660\nBut I don't like to be a spoiler at anything.\n\n333\n00:14:53.660 --> 00:14:55.420\nI want to go in and go for it.\n\n334\n00:14:55.420 --> 00:15:00.020\nSo I took the naive point of view that we're going to go win this and we're\n\n335\n00:15:00.020 --> 00:15:00.460\ngoing to bring\n\n336\n00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:01.980\nbetter ideas.\n\n337\n00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:06.450\nAnd so working with the sports group, the marketing group and working with our\n\n338\n00:15:06.450 --> 00:15:07.020\noutside\n\n339\n00:15:07.020 --> 00:15:12.780\nagency, we had a pretty simple premise that, you know, football is about\n\n340\n00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:14.060\nentertainment\n\n341\n00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:16.910\nand Pepsi's entertainment brand and there should be things that we could do\n\n342\n00:15:16.910 --> 00:15:17.340\nuniquely\n\n343\n00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:20.500\ntogether and took it to them.\n\n344\n00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:22.820\nAnd it was a matter of three weeks and won the deal.\n\n345\n00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:28.290\nAnd I think Roger Goodell at the time was head of sponsorship among other\n\n346\n00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:29.180\nthings.\n\n347\n00:15:29.180 --> 00:15:31.980\nAnd he was looking to show that he could do things differently.\n\n348\n00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:33.020\nAnd so it was good timing.\n\n349\n00:15:33.020 --> 00:15:34.620\nAnyway, we got the deal done.\n\n350\n00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:39.360\nAnd I think that they were so incredulous that Pepsi was actually the sponsor\n\n351\n00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:39.780\nof the\n\n352\n00:15:39.780 --> 00:15:43.850\nNational Football League for the first time ever that I think that factored\n\n353\n00:15:43.850 --> 00:15:44.780\ninto a decision\n\n354\n00:15:44.780 --> 00:15:48.060\nto elevate me when the president's job opened up.\n\n355\n00:15:48.060 --> 00:15:51.420\nYou talk about your sports background with your family earlier.\n\n356\n00:15:51.420 --> 00:15:55.700\nHow much did that help you moving up the ladder in the corporate world?\n\n357\n00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:59.070\nDid it make men feel more comfortable with you that you could sit and chat with\n\n358\n00:15:59.070 --> 00:15:59.340\nthem\n\n359\n00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.420\nabout what happened on Sunday night?\n\n360\n00:16:01.420 --> 00:16:02.820\nAnd was that a big factor?\n\n361\n00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.620\nI think it absolutely helped me.\n\n362\n00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:08.270\nI grew up playing competitive tennis and I subsequently have learned about\n\n363\n00:16:08.270 --> 00:16:09.060\npaddle tennis\n\n364\n00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:12.740\nthat I love playing it outside in a chicken coop.\n\n365\n00:16:12.740 --> 00:16:15.700\nBut I also took up golf when I married a golfer.\n\n366\n00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:19.790\nAnd golf has turned out, as you well know, to be a very effective way to spend\n\n367\n00:16:19.790 --> 00:16:20.460\nfour hours\n\n368\n00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:23.100\nwith somebody and really get to know them.\n\n369\n00:16:23.100 --> 00:16:27.430\nAnd when you're running a bottling organization of largely men and they're\n\n370\n00:16:27.430 --> 00:16:28.100\nprivately held\n\n371\n00:16:28.100 --> 00:16:34.030\nat the time, separate from PepsiCo, going out and playing golf for four hours\n\n372\n00:16:34.030 --> 00:16:34.540\nwas a great\n\n373\n00:16:34.540 --> 00:16:38.610\nway to get to know people personally in addition to professionally and it\n\n374\n00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:39.700\nallowed you to use\n\n375\n00:16:39.700 --> 00:16:45.100\nyour relationship when the tough questions came up to get through the hard.\n\n376\n00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:49.160\nBut sports teaches you that and sports gave me that opportunity and I'll add\n\n377\n00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:49.700\none more\n\n378\n00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:50.700\nthing.\n\n379\n00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:57.030\nIf you can take money off of a bottler in a golf round, you automatically get\n\n380\n00:16:57.030 --> 00:16:57.900\nrespect.\n\n381\n00:16:57.900 --> 00:17:00.980\nSo five bucks is five bucks.\n\n382\n00:17:00.980 --> 00:17:02.420\nAnd I do believe it helped me.\n\n383\n00:17:02.420 --> 00:17:04.100\nNo questions, sports helped me.\n\n384\n00:17:04.100 --> 00:17:08.100\nOne of the things I really enjoyed about your book is it provides tangible\n\n385\n00:17:08.100 --> 00:17:08.820\nexamples of\n\n386\n00:17:08.820 --> 00:17:15.230\nwhat you should do as an employee, as a boss, and as a witness, someone that's\n\n387\n00:17:15.230 --> 00:17:16.580\njust watching\n\n388\n00:17:16.580 --> 00:17:17.580\nwhat's going on.\n\n389\n00:17:17.580 --> 00:17:20.460\nAnd you talk about each of those three things.\n\n390\n00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:23.860\nThat's why I think the book is so practical and I really love passing it on to\n\n391\n00:17:23.860 --> 00:17:24.500\nmy daughter\n\n392\n00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:25.500\nAshley.\n\n393\n00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:29.680\nBut anyway, when you look at the workplace, what's something that's going on in\n\n394\n00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:30.500\nthe workplace\n\n395\n00:17:30.500 --> 00:17:38.180\nright now that absolutely drives you crazy, you know, that men are oblivious to\n\n396\n00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:38.180\n?\n\n397\n00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:41.490\nI think one of the things that gets me right now, and I'm going to slightly\n\n398\n00:17:41.490 --> 00:17:42.060\nanswer the\n\n399\n00:17:42.060 --> 00:17:47.490\nquestion differently, David, is we are in a time in America where people seem\n\n400\n00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:48.140\nfocused\n\n401\n00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:52.370\non, am I going to make people go back in the office three days a week, four\n\n402\n00:17:52.370 --> 00:17:53.180\ndays a week,\n\n403\n00:17:53.180 --> 00:17:56.300\nwhat days of the week are they going to be able to be totally virtual?\n\n404\n00:17:56.300 --> 00:17:59.260\nAm I going to let them stay where they move to or not?\n\n405\n00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:05.290\nA very transactional thinking about how the workforce is going to evolve as the\n\n406\n00:18:05.290 --> 00:18:05.820\nresult\n\n407\n00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:06.820\nof COVID.\n\n408\n00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:13.470\nWhat kind of drives me crazy is that the conversation is not at the same time\n\n409\n00:18:13.470 --> 00:18:16.740\nabout how do we create\n\n410\n00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:21.000\nin light of how we're going to do our work, how are we going to create the\n\n411\n00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:21.940\nculture that\n\n412\n00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:26.320\nis going to bind our people if they are remote and make sure that we're\n\n413\n00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:27.460\nbuilding a strong\n\n414\n00:18:27.460 --> 00:18:31.100\nculture because that's what retains employees.\n\n415\n00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:36.220\nPeople have a lot of options today and people are very quick to say, I'm going\n\n416\n00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:36.740\nto go do\n\n417\n00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:39.620\nmy own thing, I'm going to jump ship.\n\n418\n00:18:39.620 --> 00:18:44.020\nWhat drives me nuts is the culture discussion isn't heightened right now.\n\n419\n00:18:44.020 --> 00:18:51.570\nIt's actually reduced at a time when I think it's critical for corporate\n\n420\n00:18:51.570 --> 00:18:52.940\nAmerica.\n\n421\n00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:57.340\nWe may not even realize the ways we've allowed assumptions and biases to shape\n\n422\n00:18:57.340 --> 00:18:58.100\nour team's\n\n423\n00:18:58.100 --> 00:19:00.500\nculture, but they're real.\n\n424\n00:19:00.500 --> 00:19:04.400\nAnd if we aren't intentional about eliminating them, they can really hamper the\n\n425\n00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:04.980\ngrowth of\n\n426\n00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:08.620\nyour people and the growth of your organization as well.\n\n427\n00:19:08.620 --> 00:19:12.440\nI talk a lot about how important it is for leaders to have a high level of self\n\n428\n00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:13.340\n-awareness.\n\n429\n00:19:13.340 --> 00:19:17.260\nI mean, without self-awareness, you really don't know yourself.\n\n430\n00:19:17.260 --> 00:19:20.100\nAnd if you don't know yourself, then you can't grow yourself.\n\n431\n00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:23.740\nAnd you know, that's really what this podcast is all about.\n\n432\n00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:27.860\nMy most recent book, Take Charge of You, How Self-Coaching Can Transform Your\n\n433\n00:19:27.860 --> 00:19:30.060\nLife and Career is an excellent\n\n434\n00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:34.420\nresource for anyone looking to increase their self-awareness.\n\n435\n00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:38.290\nThe book walks you through a process of how to really understand yourself, to\n\n436\n00:19:38.290 --> 00:19:38.700\nfigure out\n\n437\n00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:43.940\nwhat you're good at, what builds your joy, what blocks your joy, and tons more.\n\n438\n00:19:43.940 --> 00:19:47.910\nAnd by going through this process, you'll get a deep understanding of what you\n\n439\n00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:48.260\ncan do\n\n440\n00:19:48.260 --> 00:19:51.620\nto continue to grow and get better.\n\n441\n00:19:51.620 --> 00:19:55.830\nThe book is jam-packed with simple exercises that will increase your self-\n\n442\n00:19:55.830 --> 00:19:56.700\nawareness and\n\n443\n00:19:56.700 --> 00:20:00.180\nkeep you connected to your personal growth and development.\n\n444\n00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:04.510\nThe self-coaching process was a total game-changer for me, and I know it will\n\n445\n00:20:04.510 --> 00:20:06.660\nbe for you too.\n\n446\n00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:12.180\nGet your copy of Take Charge of You Today on Amazon or wherever books are sold.\n\n447\n00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:21.130\nThere's no question that culture, every great company and every great leader I\n\n448\n00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:21.980\ntalk to,\n\n449\n00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:24.700\nthey make it their top priority for exactly that reason.\n\n450\n00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:27.740\nYou've got to have that culture to drive results.\n\n451\n00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.140\nOne of the things you talk about in the book is office housework, which is like\n\n452\n00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:32.420\nwhere when\n\n453\n00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:37.340\nit's time to take notes, you have the woman in the room takes the notes.\n\n454\n00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:41.240\nAnd one of my really great friends was the late Brenda Barnes, who I'm sure you\n\n455\n00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:41.700\nknew.\n\n456\n00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:46.360\nShe was the CEO of Sarah Lee and also Chief Operating Officer and President\n\n457\n00:20:46.360 --> 00:20:47.100\nPepsi.\n\n458\n00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:51.400\nBut she always told me that she thought it was a big advantage for her because\n\n459\n00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:51.820\nshe was\n\n460\n00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:56.200\nasked to take the notes because she was able to be at the center of the room,\n\n461\n00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:57.020\nsynthesize\n\n462\n00:20:57.020 --> 00:21:01.560\neverybody's points of views, and be much more than a note-taker and it's\n\n463\n00:21:01.560 --> 00:21:03.140\nseparated.\n\n464\n00:21:03.140 --> 00:21:04.820\nWhat's your perspective on it?\n\n465\n00:21:04.820 --> 00:21:06.620\nI loved Brenda.\n\n466\n00:21:06.620 --> 00:21:08.580\nI followed in her footsteps in a way.\n\n467\n00:21:08.580 --> 00:21:12.260\nPeople say, \"What was it like to lead Pepsi Cola, a largely male organization?\"\n\n468\n00:21:12.260 --> 00:21:13.660\nI said, \"Well, I wasn't the first.\"\n\n469\n00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:15.260\nBrenda was the first.\n\n470\n00:21:15.260 --> 00:21:20.620\nBut where I would differ from her is, \"Yes, I think when you take the notes,\n\n471\n00:21:20.620 --> 00:21:21.300\nyou actually\n\n472\n00:21:21.300 --> 00:21:25.240\ndon't participate as much in the conversation because you're having to note-\n\n473\n00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:26.420\ntake everything.\"\n\n474\n00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:30.200\nAnd I think also that there's an added amount of work for you to do after the\n\n475\n00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:30.660\nmeeting is\n\n476\n00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:33.300\nover to summarize the notes and send them out.\n\n477\n00:21:33.300 --> 00:21:39.220\nAnd yes, there is power in what she said in the ability to articulate what\n\n478\n00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:40.060\nexactly was\n\n479\n00:21:40.060 --> 00:21:42.820\nhappened at the meeting and direct.\n\n480\n00:21:42.820 --> 00:21:47.900\nBut there's also the negative is more time and you maybe can't fully\n\n481\n00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:49.260\nparticipate.\n\n482\n00:21:49.260 --> 00:21:52.860\nBut I think it's more than just taking the notes in the meeting.\n\n483\n00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:58.140\nWhen I started at Compton Advertising, I was doing well.\n\n484\n00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:03.020\nSo what's the first thing they asked me to do, not, \"Would you participate in\n\n485\n00:22:03.020 --> 00:22:03.880\nour task\n\n486\n00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.540\nforce to see if we can grow the Procter & Gamble business?\"\n\n487\n00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:08.640\nThat'd be great.\n\n488\n00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:12.940\nWould you participate in our task force to try to get more business in besides\n\n489\n00:22:12.940 --> 00:22:13.500\nProcter\n\n490\n00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:14.500\n& Gamble?\n\n491\n00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:15.500\nWould it participate?\n\n492\n00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:16.500\nNo.\n\n493\n00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:18.980\n\"Would you run the company's Christmas party?\"\n\n494\n00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:24.020\nI'm 24 years old and they're going to ask me to put together an outside party\n\n495\n00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:24.380\nfor a\n\n496\n00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:25.980\nthousand people.\n\n497\n00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:29.670\nI guess it's a compliment to my organizational capability that I was asked to\n\n498\n00:22:29.670 --> 00:22:30.320\ndo that.\n\n499\n00:22:30.320 --> 00:22:34.520\nBut that took a tremendous amount of work and yet at the end of the day, the\n\n500\n00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:34.980\nfact that\n\n501\n00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:41.000\nI had run a successful Christmas party had nothing to do with whether I got the\n\n502\n00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:41.460\nnext\n\n503\n00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:45.100\npromotion or not and in fact it took a lot of time away from me.\n\n504\n00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:49.770\nAnd that's what we say is office housework is just as a leader, make sure that\n\n505\n00:22:49.770 --> 00:22:50.060\nyou're\n\n506\n00:22:50.060 --> 00:22:53.780\ngiving that responsibility evenly across everyone.\n\n507\n00:22:53.780 --> 00:22:57.960\nBecause if you're asked to throw the party and you're asked to take the notes\n\n508\n00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:58.660\nand you're\n\n509\n00:22:58.660 --> 00:23:03.850\nasked to participate in this Diversity Council and participate in this\n\n510\n00:23:03.850 --> 00:23:05.460\nDiversity Council,\n\n511\n00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:07.340\nin aggregate it's a lot of your time.\n\n512\n00:23:07.340 --> 00:23:11.620\nIt's taking you away from doing your job and it might not result in you're\n\n513\n00:23:11.620 --> 00:23:12.420\ngetting that\n\n514\n00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.820\nraise or getting promoted.\n\n515\n00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:18.440\nYou might get an attaboy, pat on the back or add a girl, but not as meaningful\n\n516\n00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:19.620\nas participating\n\n517\n00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:23.540\nsome other types of extracurricular work for the company.\n\n518\n00:23:23.540 --> 00:23:27.610\nI talk about one thing you said which is really important to us that we weren't\n\n519\n00:23:27.610 --> 00:23:28.380\ngoing to tell\n\n520\n00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:32.930\nwomen this book was written to help people like your daughter figure out how to\n\n521\n00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:33.540\nnavigate\n\n522\n00:23:33.540 --> 00:23:36.220\nthese circumstances they find themselves in.\n\n523\n00:23:36.220 --> 00:23:40.340\nAnd because they're six sisters, every situation has two or three of us\n\n524\n00:23:40.340 --> 00:23:41.820\noffering our perspective\n\n525\n00:23:41.820 --> 00:23:48.400\non what we do because you might relate to, you know, Lori using humor or see\n\n526\n00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.580\nusing facts.\n\n527\n00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:53.420\nBut one of us you might relate to, so there's multiple points of view.\n\n528\n00:23:53.420 --> 00:23:56.760\nBut that's saying the problem is women and women have to solve it or learn how\n\n529\n00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:57.300\nto suffer\n\n530\n00:23:57.300 --> 00:23:58.540\nthrough it.\n\n531\n00:23:58.540 --> 00:24:00.460\nWhat we run to do is change culture.\n\n532\n00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:04.000\nSo what you have to do is ask the other people in the room, the men and the\n\n533\n00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.800\nwomen to come\n\n534\n00:24:04.800 --> 00:24:05.800\nin and help.\n\n535\n00:24:05.800 --> 00:24:12.080\nYou can sensitize bystanders, witnesses who are there to actually do something.\n\n536\n00:24:12.080 --> 00:24:13.440\nIt's really easy.\n\n537\n00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.520\nThere's a meeting going on.\n\n538\n00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:20.320\nThis happens a lot of times to women and sometimes men.\n\n539\n00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:21.920\nAnd there's a discussion going on.\n\n540\n00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:23.240\nThere's a problem in the business.\n\n541\n00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.160\nYou say, I have an idea.\n\n542\n00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:26.880\nWhat if we did this?\n\n543\n00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:31.120\nAnd the discussion continues and few other people say things.\n\n544\n00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:37.600\nAnd then Joe articulates what I just said, slightly different words.\n\n545\n00:24:37.600 --> 00:24:40.520\nAnd everybody says, oh, Joe, that's a great idea.\n\n546\n00:24:40.520 --> 00:24:41.520\nLet's go do that.\n\n547\n00:24:41.520 --> 00:24:43.440\nWell, all of a sudden I feel badly.\n\n548\n00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:45.360\nWhy didn't you hear me?\n\n549\n00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:51.260\nAnd how easy would it have been for Joe to just say, I want to build on Don's\n\n550\n00:24:51.260 --> 00:24:52.040\nidea?\n\n551\n00:24:52.040 --> 00:24:55.280\nOr for someone in the room or the boss to say, I like that idea.\n\n552\n00:24:55.280 --> 00:24:56.720\nDon had a similar idea.\n\n553\n00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.480\nLet's all talk about it.\n\n554\n00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.820\nSo by having a point of view of what if you're in the room you can do to help\n\n555\n00:25:02.820 --> 00:25:04.120\nthe situation.\n\n556\n00:25:04.120 --> 00:25:08.250\nOr if you're a boss, is that collection of people that actually can change\n\n557\n00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:09.000\nculture?\n\n558\n00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:15.240\nI also got a kick out of reading about the Zambuka Patrol and how it impacted\n\n559\n00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.560\nyour thoughts\n\n560\n00:25:16.560 --> 00:25:17.560\non business meetings.\n\n561\n00:25:17.560 --> 00:25:21.720\nAnd I have to admit, the Zambuka Patrol for everybody that's listening was\n\n562\n00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:22.320\nRoger and\n\n563\n00:25:22.320 --> 00:25:27.730\nRico's former chairman of PepsiCo, he loves Zambuka and he would stay up all\n\n564\n00:25:27.730 --> 00:25:28.640\nnight drinking\n\n565\n00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:30.920\nZambuka with whoever would do it with him.\n\n566\n00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:35.240\nAnd I have to admit, Don, I took advantage of that as a male.\n\n567\n00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.960\nAnd there are many times when we were the last to leave a restaurant.\n\n568\n00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.360\nBut you really talk about the adverse effects of that.\n\n569\n00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:44.360\nTalk about that.\n\n570\n00:25:44.360 --> 00:25:49.800\nSo, first of all, just to be in the presence of Roger and to be part of his\n\n571\n00:25:49.800 --> 00:25:50.680\nZambuka Patrol\n\n572\n00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:55.330\nwas like a rite of passage of PepsiCo and something you really wanted to be a\n\n573\n00:25:55.330 --> 00:25:55.880\npart of\n\n574\n00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:59.880\nbecause Roger in those moments, as you know, would tell stories.\n\n575\n00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.750\nAnd there was folklore that was history about the company that would really\n\n576\n00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:04.880\nhelp you understand\n\n577\n00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:09.800\nboth the culture and the DNA of who PepsiCo and Pepsi was.\n\n578\n00:26:09.800 --> 00:26:11.600\nSo you wanted to be there.\n\n579\n00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:18.040\nBut in my particular case, I was seven months pregnant and not able to drink.\n\n580\n00:26:18.040 --> 00:26:22.270\nAnd so trying to stay up seven months pregnant till four in the morning, well,\n\n581\n00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:22.640\neverybody\n\n582\n00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.950\nelse is laughing and getting more and more drunk and stupid and having a great\n\n583\n00:26:25.950 --> 00:26:26.320\ntime.\n\n584\n00:26:26.320 --> 00:26:28.320\nAnd I'm like, I'm not having that great a time.\n\n585\n00:26:28.320 --> 00:26:30.080\nI want to listen and hear the stories.\n\n586\n00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:33.230\nI'm trying to participate, but my water just doesn't taste really good at four\n\n587\n00:26:33.230 --> 00:26:34.520\nin the morning.\n\n588\n00:26:34.520 --> 00:26:37.880\nThat was just the sort of flip side for me if it was bad timing for Zambuka\n\n589\n00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:38.520\nPatrol for\n\n590\n00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:39.520\nme.\n\n591\n00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:41.160\nSo what do you do if you're Roger and Rico?\n\n592\n00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.160\nDo you not have the Zambuka?\n\n593\n00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.800\nYou go to bed at 10 o'clock.\n\n594\n00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:46.280\nYou don't stay up.\n\n595\n00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:49.160\nSo Roger and Rico starts earlier.\n\n596\n00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.220\nHe starts telling those stories when there's more people around the table, not\n\n597\n00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:53.640\nless.\n\n598\n00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:55.160\nEverybody wants to stay up till four in the morning.\n\n599\n00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:56.160\nGo for it.\n\n600\n00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.280\nYou know, I'm not saying don't stay up till four in the morning.\n\n601\n00:26:58.280 --> 00:27:01.540\nI'm just saying start the folklore, start telling the stories sooner when there\n\n602\n00:27:01.540 --> 00:27:01.960\n's more\n\n603\n00:27:01.960 --> 00:27:03.160\npeople there.\n\n604\n00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.120\nAnd the second thing is Roger loved that.\n\n605\n00:27:06.120 --> 00:27:08.000\nI would never take that away from him.\n\n606\n00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:13.240\nBut there were one or two of the senior leaders could have if they saw some\n\n607\n00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:14.600\nyounger employees\n\n608\n00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:16.040\nthat weren't as engaged.\n\n609\n00:27:16.040 --> 00:27:17.480\nThey could have said, you know what?\n\n610\n00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:18.760\nThere's a bunch of us packing it in.\n\n611\n00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:20.120\nThe rest of you guys stay.\n\n612\n00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:23.650\nBut they could have left with a group to give a group permission to leave that\n\n613\n00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:24.160\nwanted to\n\n614\n00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:28.800\nleave and not make the junior person feel awkward, you know, having to be the\n\n615\n00:27:28.800 --> 00:27:29.440\nonly one\n\n616\n00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:30.600\nleaving.\n\n617\n00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:35.920\nBefore you were the CEO of Pepsi Cola, you were the chief marketing officer.\n\n618\n00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:40.030\nHow would you say your background in marketing has equipped you to be a better\n\n619\n00:27:40.030 --> 00:27:40.680\nleader?\n\n620\n00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.360\nWhat skills in marketing have you really applied to how you lead people?\n\n621\n00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:51.040\nAnd to be a good marketer, you have to listen to your consumers.\n\n622\n00:27:51.040 --> 00:27:53.280\nYou have to hear what they like.\n\n623\n00:27:53.280 --> 00:27:55.440\nYou have to hear what they don't like.\n\n624\n00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.690\nYou have to listen to how younger people are interacting different than older\n\n625\n00:27:58.690 --> 00:27:59.200\npeople.\n\n626\n00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.800\nYou have to be a student of people.\n\n627\n00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:05.680\nSo when you're a leader, you have to listen to your organization.\n\n628\n00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.360\nYou can't just say, I'm always right all the time.\n\n629\n00:28:08.360 --> 00:28:09.840\nAnd you have to bring out the best.\n\n630\n00:28:09.840 --> 00:28:13.640\nI think leaders are champions of their people to bring out the best.\n\n631\n00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:18.440\nSo I think listening is an extremely important skill.\n\n632\n00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.560\nYou know, one of the things that I was curious to see was that, you know, you\n\n633\n00:28:22.560 --> 00:28:23.360\nwere the CEO\n\n634\n00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:28.680\nof Pepsi Cola, and then you go be the chief marketing officer at the NFL.\n\n635\n00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:32.360\nGo from being a general manager back to a functional leader.\n\n636\n00:28:32.360 --> 00:28:34.760\nThat seemed like an interesting move to me.\n\n637\n00:28:34.760 --> 00:28:39.410\nWhat made you want to go back into the functional route versus pursuing another\n\n638\n00:28:39.410 --> 00:28:40.360\nCEO type job?\n\n639\n00:28:40.360 --> 00:28:46.500\nSo a little background, I left Pepsi in 2008 when the soft drink business had\n\n640\n00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:47.280\ngone from\n\n641\n00:28:47.280 --> 00:28:52.220\nbeing the darling of PepsiCo growing a lot of fun to grow at a lot of fun to\n\n642\n00:28:52.220 --> 00:28:52.800\ncome up\n\n643\n00:28:52.800 --> 00:29:00.490\nwith innovation to being perceived by people as not healthy for you and\n\n644\n00:29:00.490 --> 00:29:02.880\ndeclining at 7%\n\n645\n00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.880\nper year.\n\n646\n00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.120\nSo my job turned from being an innovator.\n\n647\n00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:10.870\nYou just couldn't innovate the non-carbonated business fast enough to make up\n\n648\n00:29:10.870 --> 00:29:11.720\nfor the decline\n\n649\n00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:12.720\nin carbonated.\n\n650\n00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.960\nSo anyway, I left and I was going to go be a CEO of another type company.\n\n651\n00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:22.240\nAnd I came very close to CEO for Dunkin Donuts, but it took a long time.\n\n652\n00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:28.590\nAnd after I had left PepsiCo and I spent more time with my girls, I made a\n\n653\n00:29:28.590 --> 00:29:29.680\ndecision that\n\n654\n00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.630\nI didn't have anything to prove that I didn't need to go be CEO of a bigger\n\n655\n00:29:32.630 --> 00:29:33.200\ncompany.\n\n656\n00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:38.040\nWhat I needed to do is find ways to get fulfillment in my professional life in\n\n657\n00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:38.880\na way that worked\n\n658\n00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:40.240\nwith my kids.\n\n659\n00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:46.780\nSo I made the decision to go and join corporate boards as a board director, but\n\n660\n00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:47.680\nalso to be\n\n661\n00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:51.490\na leader of a consulting firm in the consumer practice where they had a big\n\n662\n00:29:51.490 --> 00:29:52.200\npractice in\n\n663\n00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.960\neducation, Parthenon, and they didn't have a big consumer practice.\n\n664\n00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:03.550\nSo that was my personal decision, so that's where I stepped off, if you will,\n\n665\n00:30:03.550 --> 00:30:04.240\nthe CEO\n\n666\n00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:05.640\npath.\n\n667\n00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:08.720\nNever thinking I was going to go back to being a chief marketing officer,\n\n668\n00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.480\nthinking I was\n\n669\n00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:14.070\ngoing to use my general management experience to help people in the consulting\n\n670\n00:30:14.070 --> 00:30:14.320\nworld and\n\n671\n00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:17.280\nto help in my board a director role.\n\n672\n00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:21.200\nWe sold Parthenon to Ernst & Young in 2014.\n\n673\n00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:24.560\nI was thinking about what I was going to do and I was probably more going to do\n\n674\n00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:25.480\nentrepreneurial\n\n675\n00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:29.040\nthings and continue doing my boards of directors.\n\n676\n00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:35.340\nBut I was sitting at my desk one day and my phone rang and it was Roger Goodell\n\n677\n00:30:35.340 --> 00:30:35.560\n.\n\n678\n00:30:35.560 --> 00:30:39.000\nAnd I hadn't talked to him in a, he was a neighbor of mine, but I hadn't talked\n\n679\n00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:39.000\nto\n\n680\n00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:42.190\nhim in a few years and I've been very careful that once he'd be his named\n\n681\n00:30:42.190 --> 00:30:43.000\ncommissioner,\n\n682\n00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:44.760\nI didn't try to hang on his coattails.\n\n683\n00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:48.530\nBut he said to me, \"Don, look, I want to bring a woman into my senior team and\n\n684\n00:30:48.530 --> 00:30:48.800\nI want\n\n685\n00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:52.000\nsomeone who knows sports but who has an outside in perspective.\"\n\n686\n00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.040\nAnd he said, \"I know you know us really well.\n\n687\n00:30:54.040 --> 00:30:56.440\nI have no idea what you're doing.\n\n688\n00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.480\nWould you consider coming to the NFL?\"\n\n689\n00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.250\nAnd the role would be head of marketing and running the events business,\n\n690\n00:31:04.250 --> 00:31:04.520\nthrowing the\n\n691\n00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:07.840\nSuper Bowl, taking games around the world.\n\n692\n00:31:07.840 --> 00:31:10.790\nAnd he said, \"And if you're not available to do it, will you help me find the\n\n693\n00:31:10.790 --> 00:31:11.200\nright\n\n694\n00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:12.200\nwoman?\"\n\n695\n00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.440\nSo I said, \"Of course I'll help you find the right woman.\"\n\n696\n00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.610\nI said, \"But you know right now I'm in the process of selling and you know it's\n\n697\n00:31:18.610 --> 00:31:19.120\nan interesting\n\n698\n00:31:19.120 --> 00:31:20.320\ntime for me.\n\n699\n00:31:20.320 --> 00:31:21.880\nCan I have a couple of days to think about it?\"\n\n700\n00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.920\nHe said, \"Take a couple of days to think about it.\"\n\n701\n00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:26.880\nI think that cell phone was down on that desk.\n\n702\n00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:27.880\nNot 10 seconds.\n\n703\n00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.920\nI'm like, \"Wow, that would be a really fun job.\n\n704\n00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:32.560\nI love sports.\n\n705\n00:31:32.560 --> 00:31:34.120\nI know the NFL.\n\n706\n00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:35.640\nI have time.\"\n\n707\n00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:38.430\nAnd so I think I yelled down at my husband downstairs and it's a friend and\n\n708\n00:31:38.430 --> 00:31:38.880\nthey all\n\n709\n00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.760\nsaid, \"Oh my God, that'd be like the perfect next job for you in your career.\"\n\n710\n00:31:42.760 --> 00:31:45.920\nSo it was more about the moment.\n\n711\n00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:47.920\nThat's by the way how I've worked my career.\n\n712\n00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:49.760\nI don't plan it out that much.\n\n713\n00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:53.880\nI see an opportunity and I think it through and if it feels right, I go do it.\n\n714\n00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.640\nAnd so I never said it was a challenge to go from being a general operator into\n\n715\n00:31:58.640 --> 00:31:59.120\nbeing\n\n716\n00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:03.720\na Chief Marketing Officer again, I have to say, but good learning.\n\n717\n00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:07.030\nBut it was fun to be part of sports and the NFL is the biggest sport and being\n\n718\n00:32:07.030 --> 00:32:07.360\non the\n\n719\n00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:09.480\ninside was a gas.\n\n720\n00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.270\nI know one of the things that you're really well known for is just being a\n\n721\n00:32:13.270 --> 00:32:13.920\nstudent of\n\n722\n00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:20.240\nconsumers and I was just curious how you looked at the generational shifts.\n\n723\n00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:26.090\nWhat's going on with how consumers are acting these days versus the NFL versus\n\n724\n00:32:26.090 --> 00:32:26.880\nPepsi, for\n\n725\n00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:27.880\nexample?\n\n726\n00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:29.920\nWhat did you see going on with the consumer?\n\n727\n00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.560\nSo David, I mean you point out to Pepsi, when I joined Pepsi, Pepsi was still\n\n728\n00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:35.240\nriding the\n\n729\n00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:41.770\nwave of the baby boomers, campaigns they'd done in the 70s and they had kind of\n\n730\n00:32:41.770 --> 00:32:42.240\nlost\n\n731\n00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:47.140\nout with Gen X that followed the boomers because they didn't really market to\n\n732\n00:32:47.140 --> 00:32:47.480\nthat\n\n733\n00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.440\ngroup and Coke got a bigger share of that generation.\n\n734\n00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:54.400\nSo I immediately turned my attention to the millennials, the kids of the boom\n\n735\n00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.840\ners and\n\n736\n00:32:54.840 --> 00:32:57.920\nwhat do we need to do to make sure we connect with that generation?\n\n737\n00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:02.280\nBecause as you well know, younger people drink a lot more beverage than older\n\n738\n00:33:02.280 --> 00:33:02.920\npeople.\n\n739\n00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:05.480\nSo for soda, it was really important.\n\n740\n00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:10.020\nIt sort of got me to be a student of generations and how generations change\n\n741\n00:33:10.020 --> 00:33:11.040\ntheir involvement\n\n742\n00:33:11.040 --> 00:33:12.600\nwith certain categories.\n\n743\n00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:16.800\nSo I couldn't help but when I went to the NFL, start to study and I had access\n\n744\n00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:17.160\nthe research\n\n745\n00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:23.910\nteam work for me to looking at how were millennials interacting with football\n\n746\n00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:24.920\nand how was that\n\n747\n00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.520\nthe same and how was that different than their parents?\n\n748\n00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:33.800\nAnd even Gen Z coming up, how were they starting to react with football?\n\n749\n00:33:33.800 --> 00:33:38.870\nAnd it was pretty clear that there were some big fundamental changes that every\n\n750\n00:33:38.870 --> 00:33:39.240\nbit is\n\n751\n00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:44.330\npassionate as the parents but where the parents tended to be very team-centric\n\n752\n00:33:44.330 --> 00:33:45.360\nbased on where\n\n753\n00:33:45.360 --> 00:33:49.140\nthey grew up, they followed, wherever they moved around the country, that team\n\n754\n00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:49.560\nwas their\n\n755\n00:33:49.560 --> 00:33:54.130\nteam and they followed the team and they tended to follow their team on\n\n756\n00:33:54.130 --> 00:33:55.080\ntelevision.\n\n757\n00:33:55.080 --> 00:33:59.360\nAnd have to buy things like Sunday Ticket if they moved someplace that didn't\n\n758\n00:33:59.360 --> 00:34:00.000\nhave that\n\n759\n00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.000\nteam.\n\n760\n00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.540\nBut that the younger generation, which must more into playing fantasy into\n\n761\n00:34:04.540 --> 00:34:05.280\nknowing about\n\n762\n00:34:05.280 --> 00:34:10.730\nthe individual players, yes following a team but often following a few teams\n\n763\n00:34:10.730 --> 00:34:11.320\nand following\n\n764\n00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:13.480\nplayers as they move from team to team.\n\n765\n00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:17.760\nMy older daughter's favorite player was Darryl Rivas.\n\n766\n00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:23.120\nWhen he moved from the Jets to the Patriots, she shifted her allegiance.\n\n767\n00:34:23.120 --> 00:34:25.560\nWho would do that from the Jets to the Patriots?\n\n768\n00:34:25.560 --> 00:34:26.560\nBut that's how she thought.\n\n769\n00:34:26.560 --> 00:34:28.120\nWe would consider him a traitor.\n\n770\n00:34:28.120 --> 00:34:29.520\nWe would consider a traitor.\n\n771\n00:34:29.520 --> 00:34:33.190\nShe said, \"No, I'm a fan of Darryl Rivas and I'm going to follow him where his\n\n772\n00:34:33.190 --> 00:34:33.400\ncareer\n\n773\n00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:34.480\ntakes him.\"\n\n774\n00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:39.450\nSo that caused me to work from an NFL standpoint of what could we do with our\n\n775\n00:34:39.450 --> 00:34:40.880\ndigital content,\n\n776\n00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:45.190\ninsight into what was going on behind the scenes to let our fans, our younger\n\n777\n00:34:45.190 --> 00:34:46.080\nfans actually\n\n778\n00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:49.560\nsee because they're much more interested in the things that other people don't\n\n779\n00:34:49.560 --> 00:34:50.000\nknow.\n\n780\n00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:51.000\nWhat is going on?\n\n781\n00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:52.000\nYou see the TV screen.\n\n782\n00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:53.400\nWhat's going on behind?\n\n783\n00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:54.400\nHalf-time.\n\n784\n00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:57.810\nWhat goes on when they're in the tunnel about to come out for the Half-time\n\n785\n00:34:57.810 --> 00:34:58.400\nshow?\n\n786\n00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.240\nAnd so that created a lot of marketing opportunities.\n\n787\n00:35:01.240 --> 00:35:05.270\nAnd that as I just learned led to the formation of a new company that you're\n\n788\n00:35:05.270 --> 00:35:06.040\ninvolved in the\n\n789\n00:35:06.040 --> 00:35:11.040\nstartup on, which is called the draft network, it's a digital platform, tell us\n\n790\n00:35:11.040 --> 00:35:12.360\nabout that.\n\n791\n00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:14.160\nNo credit to starting it.\n\n792\n00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:17.480\nSmarter people than me, younger people than me, started this business.\n\n793\n00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:22.060\nBut when I left the NFL and I was asked to get involved with this business, it\n\n794\n00:35:22.060 --> 00:35:22.720\n's a digital\n\n795\n00:35:22.720 --> 00:35:29.280\nplatform that has former scouts for college in the NFL right about the players\n\n796\n00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:30.240\nin college\n\n797\n00:35:30.240 --> 00:35:36.040\nthat will be likely entering the NFL and offering their perspective on how they\n\n798\n00:35:36.040 --> 00:35:37.120\nwill influence\n\n799\n00:35:37.120 --> 00:35:40.840\nwhat team they go to and which teams they might fit better with.\n\n800\n00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.840\nAnd there's also it had a game called the mock draft machine where you can\n\n801\n00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:44.320\nactually\n\n802\n00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.720\nact like a GM and do a draft.\n\n803\n00:35:47.720 --> 00:35:51.680\nSo I started to love being involved with a company because it was really an\n\n804\n00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:52.200\ninsight\n\n805\n00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:55.040\nto how younger people were interacting with football.\n\n806\n00:35:55.040 --> 00:35:56.360\nAnd so I'm an owner.\n\n807\n00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:57.800\nI don't run anything.\n\n808\n00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.600\nI don't hold any positions.\n\n809\n00:35:59.600 --> 00:36:05.000\nAnd yet as an owner, I interact with the CEO and some of the staff and I can't\n\n810\n00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:05.760\nhelp but\n\n811\n00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:10.310\ntry to offer some wisdom, hopefully not too much when we hit opportunities or\n\n812\n00:36:10.310 --> 00:36:10.840\nbumps in\n\n813\n00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:11.840\nthe road.\n\n814\n00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.760\nI want to get back to the NFL for a second.\n\n815\n00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.600\nYou mentioned the Super Bowl.\n\n816\n00:36:15.600 --> 00:36:19.400\nWhat's it like to market the Super Bowl as the head of marketing for the NFL?\n\n817\n00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:23.680\nI mean, what's it take to really make that event even better each year?\n\n818\n00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:26.360\nIt's a pleasure to market the Super Bowl.\n\n819\n00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:30.630\nDavid, I would tell you one of the things that I had the most fun with that I\n\n820\n00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:32.080\ndid not appreciate.\n\n821\n00:36:32.080 --> 00:36:35.280\nI really didn't understand the job I took when I joined the NFL.\n\n822\n00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.680\nRoger said, \"Oh, you'll have the events department.\"\n\n823\n00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:38.920\nAll right, all right.\n\n824\n00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:40.840\nSo I'm going in as chief marketing officer.\n\n825\n00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:44.920\nWhat I didn't realize is the events department was 24 people and their job was\n\n826\n00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:45.520\nto throw the\n\n827\n00:36:45.520 --> 00:36:52.210\nSuper Bowl, throw the Pro Bowl, produce the international games in the UK and\n\n828\n00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:53.320\nnow Germany\n\n829\n00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:59.000\nto remove the draft out of New York and made it a festival around the country.\n\n830\n00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:04.580\nI would tell you the creativity involved in an event and then how you use the\n\n831\n00:37:04.580 --> 00:37:04.960\nthings\n\n832\n00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:06.560\nthat happen in that event.\n\n833\n00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:11.140\nAgain, think young people want access, special access to different things going\n\n834\n00:37:11.140 --> 00:37:11.560\non.\n\n835\n00:37:11.560 --> 00:37:14.960\nIt's really not about tune into the Super Bowl.\n\n836\n00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.440\nIt's more get behind the scenes of the Super Bowl, find out what fans are\n\n837\n00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:20.600\nexperiencing,\n\n838\n00:37:20.600 --> 00:37:23.040\nwho's going to the special concert.\n\n839\n00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:24.040\nIt's a myriad.\n\n840\n00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:26.840\nIt's a tapestry of things that go on around event.\n\n841\n00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:32.060\nThat was what was really fun to market and honestly through events to create a\n\n842\n00:37:32.060 --> 00:37:32.400\nlot of\n\n843\n00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:33.680\nthose moments.\n\n844\n00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:36.970\nYou mentioned that Roger calls you up and said, \"I really would like to have a\n\n845\n00:37:36.970 --> 00:37:37.200\nfemale\n\n846\n00:37:37.200 --> 00:37:38.200\non my staff.\n\n847\n00:37:38.200 --> 00:37:40.920\nI think you'd be terrific at it.\"\n\n848\n00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.860\nThere are a lot of times, I'm sure, when you're in these meetings at the NFL\n\n849\n00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:44.360\nwhere you're\n\n850\n00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.160\nthe only female in the room.\n\n851\n00:37:46.160 --> 00:37:50.870\nDid you ever find that to be an advantage or was it always something you had to\n\n852\n00:37:50.870 --> 00:37:51.800\novercome?\n\n853\n00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:52.800\nOh, no, no.\n\n854\n00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:54.880\nDefinitely at times an advantage.\n\n855\n00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:56.520\nYou would stand out.\n\n856\n00:37:56.520 --> 00:37:59.320\nThe bigger advantage wasn't just being a woman.\n\n857\n00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:06.540\nThe advantage was being a woman with the vantage point of a former sponsor, a\n\n858\n00:38:06.540 --> 00:38:07.060\nvantage\n\n859\n00:38:07.060 --> 00:38:11.440\npoint of the fan in a room of people.\n\n860\n00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:16.120\nIf you think of diversity more broadly than just male/female, I was such a\n\n861\n00:38:16.120 --> 00:38:17.600\ndiverse perspective\n\n862\n00:38:17.600 --> 00:38:22.560\nin that room because I didn't have a shared experience with most of the people.\n\n863\n00:38:22.560 --> 00:38:28.040\nI didn't spend 20, 30 years in sports.\n\n864\n00:38:28.040 --> 00:38:30.760\nI didn't play professional football.\n\n865\n00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:35.410\nI didn't live and breathe it and therefore my perspective was fresher and I\n\n866\n00:38:35.410 --> 00:38:36.280\nused that.\n\n867\n00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.080\nThe fact that I looked different in the room stood up.\n\n868\n00:38:39.080 --> 00:38:42.970\nPeople noticed when I spoke, but it was definitely an advantage, definitely\n\n869\n00:38:42.970 --> 00:38:43.720\ndifferent.\n\n870\n00:38:43.720 --> 00:38:48.220\nI will tell you one of the tougher things was think about that Monday morning\n\n871\n00:38:48.220 --> 00:38:48.800\nmeeting\n\n872\n00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.280\nwhen you're on the senior staff, Roger's staff.\n\n873\n00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:55.720\nHe's talking about the football game and invariably they're talking discrat\n\n874\n00:38:55.720 --> 00:38:57.520\nically about some\n\n875\n00:38:57.520 --> 00:39:01.440\nof the calls that caused a lot of fan issues.\n\n876\n00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.680\nNow I've not played football.\n\n877\n00:39:04.680 --> 00:39:07.760\nI've tried flag when I was there because I never had a chance growing up to\n\n878\n00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:08.680\nplay football.\n\n879\n00:39:08.680 --> 00:39:12.040\nSo it's the closest I got to playing football.\n\n880\n00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:15.800\nIf you have a couple of professional football players around the room and Roger\n\n881\n00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:16.400\nGoodell's\n\n882\n00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:21.420\nthere, you choose very carefully how you're going to offer your opinion on the\n\n883\n00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:21.880\ncall or\n\n884\n00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:22.880\nthe play.\n\n885\n00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.400\nThat's just not how you engage in that conversation.\n\n886\n00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:28.850\nSo what I would engage with is how the fan reacted to something that happened\n\n887\n00:39:28.850 --> 00:39:29.360\nthe night\n\n888\n00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:36.600\nbefore because that was in an area of expertise for me.\n\n889\n00:39:36.600 --> 00:39:40.930\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Don Hudson in just a moment\n\n890\n00:39:40.930 --> 00:39:41.000\n.\n\n891\n00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:45.130\nIn her time at both Pepsi and the National Football League, Don worked along\n\n892\n00:39:45.130 --> 00:39:46.120\nRoger Goodell,\n\n893\n00:39:46.120 --> 00:39:48.280\nwho's the commissioner of the NFL.\n\n894\n00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:52.200\nAnd just like Don, Roger never stops pushing to make things better.\n\n895\n00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:56.560\nIn my conversation with Roger, you'll get plenty of wisdom on how to keep your\n\n896\n00:39:56.560 --> 00:39:57.080\nculture\n\n897\n00:39:57.080 --> 00:39:58.800\nfrom complacency.\n\n898\n00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:03.680\nThe biggest risk we have is the NFL going forward is complacency.\n\n899\n00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:07.880\nAnd it was probably a little bold to say that to people who were enjoying a\n\n900\n00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:08.520\ngreat deal\n\n901\n00:40:08.520 --> 00:40:09.600\nof success.\n\n902\n00:40:09.600 --> 00:40:11.040\nBut I really do mean it.\n\n903\n00:40:11.040 --> 00:40:14.840\nAnd in fact, that theme has been intertwined with most of my comments to the\n\n904\n00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:15.720\nownership over\n\n905\n00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:19.980\nthe years, but most specifically and most recently at our annual meeting this\n\n906\n00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:20.480\nyear.\n\n907\n00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:24.580\nBecause I really do believe the NFL is at a level of success that we've never\n\n908\n00:40:24.580 --> 00:40:26.080\nbeen before.\n\n909\n00:40:26.080 --> 00:40:31.430\nBut I think our opportunities are so great right now that it's on us to seize\n\n910\n00:40:31.430 --> 00:40:32.080\nthat and\n\n911\n00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:35.600\nmissing that opportunity would be a failure for all of us.\n\n912\n00:40:35.600 --> 00:40:41.140\nGo back and listen to my entire conversation with Roger Goodell, episode 101\n\n913\n00:40:41.140 --> 00:40:41.960\nhere on How\n\n914\n00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:42.760\nLeaders Lead.\n\n915\n00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:51.840\nYou say that you need to be your own person.\n\n916\n00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:55.920\nYou will not succeed if you're not leveraging what makes you you.\n\n917\n00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.120\nTell me how you learned that lesson.\n\n918\n00:40:58.120 --> 00:41:02.520\nIn my career early on, I'm an idea person, build teams.\n\n919\n00:41:02.520 --> 00:41:09.600\nI'm a cheerleader for people, probably not the best at quick follow up in\n\n920\n00:41:09.600 --> 00:41:10.680\nemails and\n\n921\n00:41:10.680 --> 00:41:15.040\nthe written word, even though I learned how to write clearly.\n\n922\n00:41:15.040 --> 00:41:21.240\nSo how I think I learned it is people tend to focus when you're younger on how\n\n923\n00:41:21.240 --> 00:41:21.800\nyou can\n\n924\n00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:23.080\nget better in this area.\n\n925\n00:41:23.080 --> 00:41:24.480\nYou're not as good in this area.\n\n926\n00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:26.360\nYou need to do this better.\n\n927\n00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:30.780\nBut then I observed over time that when I get promoted, I most often got\n\n928\n00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:31.600\npromoted on\n\n929\n00:41:31.600 --> 00:41:33.960\nthe things that I did well.\n\n930\n00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.600\nBeing able to command presence in a meeting.\n\n931\n00:41:36.600 --> 00:41:40.920\nBeing able to win business by bringing in a big idea.\n\n932\n00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:47.380\nSo I learned over time that I had more success leveraging my strengths than\n\n933\n00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:49.080\nspending my time\n\n934\n00:41:49.080 --> 00:41:51.040\ntrying to mitigate my weaknesses.\n\n935\n00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:55.600\nThat's not to say that you don't have to make your weaknesses better.\n\n936\n00:41:55.600 --> 00:41:59.350\nBut if you focus on that, then you're not leveraging and bringing forth what\n\n937\n00:41:59.350 --> 00:41:59.720\nreally\n\n938\n00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:00.800\nmakes you succeed.\n\n939\n00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.790\nI think people win in life based on leveraging their strengths, not erasing\n\n940\n00:42:04.790 --> 00:42:05.960\nyour weaknesses.\n\n941\n00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:11.330\nI did a podcast with Jenny Rometty, the former CEO of IBM, who I'm sure you\n\n942\n00:42:11.330 --> 00:42:12.080\nknow.\n\n943\n00:42:12.080 --> 00:42:16.620\nAnd Jenny said when she was asked to be CEO, she didn't think she was\n\n944\n00:42:16.620 --> 00:42:18.040\nnecessarily ready\n\n945\n00:42:18.040 --> 00:42:19.840\nfor that kind of job.\n\n946\n00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.360\nAnd her husband said, \"Of course you are.\n\n947\n00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:26.820\nDo you find that women have a tendency to think that they don't have all the\n\n948\n00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:27.680\neyes dotted\n\n949\n00:42:27.680 --> 00:42:30.520\nand the teeth crossed to really take on jobs?\"\n\n950\n00:42:30.520 --> 00:42:33.760\nI mean, most men I know you get offered a promotion.\n\n951\n00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.760\nYou go, \"Absolutely.\"\n\n952\n00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.360\nI mean, whatever you don't know, you'll figure it out.\n\n953\n00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:38.360\nBut how about women?\n\n954\n00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.320\nIs the trait that Jenny exhibited there?\n\n955\n00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.320\nIs that a female trait that's pretty predominant or is it?\n\n956\n00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:44.320\nHow would you describe it?\n\n957\n00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.870\nWell, not 100%, but I definitely agree with you that in general it's a female\n\n958\n00:42:47.870 --> 00:42:48.320\ntrait.\n\n959\n00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:52.410\nI do want to tell a story because when I was promoted to President of Pepsi, I\n\n960\n00:42:52.410 --> 00:42:53.080\nhad 11\n\n961\n00:42:53.080 --> 00:42:57.640\ndirect reports and nine of them were met and two were women.\n\n962\n00:42:57.640 --> 00:43:00.920\nAnd over the course of the next year, PepsiCo does what they do.\n\n963\n00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:03.920\nWe have an opening for a strong senior person in finance.\n\n964\n00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:05.720\nWe're going to take your CFO.\n\n965\n00:43:05.720 --> 00:43:08.760\nWe need a new sales leader and it was the right time for them.\n\n966\n00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:13.880\nSo in the course of my first year leading that division, I went from a staff of\n\n967\n00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:14.240\nnine\n\n968\n00:43:14.240 --> 00:43:18.900\nmen and two women to six men and five women.\n\n969\n00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:20.400\nSo about evenly balanced.\n\n970\n00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:25.780\nSo when I went through the personnel review phase for the first year as CEO, I\n\n971\n00:43:25.780 --> 00:43:26.280\nhad an\n\n972\n00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:30.800\nobservation not dissimilar to what you're talking about, which is I found that\n\n973\n00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:31.520\nthe men\n\n974\n00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:36.190\ntended to come into my office, telling me that they're ready to be promoted,\n\n975\n00:43:36.190 --> 00:43:36.440\ntelling\n\n976\n00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:40.820\nme that they need more money, focusing on that sort of can do attitude and what\n\n977\n00:43:40.820 --> 00:43:41.220\nthey\n\n978\n00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:46.640\ndone well, but very self-promoting and good for them.\n\n979\n00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:50.700\nThe women more often came in my office talking about where they thought they\n\n980\n00:43:50.700 --> 00:43:51.920\ncould do better,\n\n981\n00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:54.400\nwhat they could learn and what we're work on.\n\n982\n00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.730\nSo a self-betterment point of view and they would not bring up salary as much,\n\n983\n00:43:59.730 --> 00:44:00.480\nwould not\n\n984\n00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:01.800\nbring up ready for promotion.\n\n985\n00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.600\nThey'd ask me when they thought they would be ready.\n\n986\n00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:10.830\nSo I did notice that husband that positivity around personal potential men had\n\n987\n00:44:10.830 --> 00:44:11.760\nand I often\n\n988\n00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:15.890\nhave advised women to come in with that too and not to do things that are false\n\n989\n00:44:15.890 --> 00:44:16.600\nfor you,\n\n990\n00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:20.220\nbut think about when you go into a personnel review, all the positives that you\n\n991\n00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:21.000\naccomplished\n\n992\n00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:24.480\nin the last year and be prepared to talk about them.\n\n993\n00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.760\nAnd do say, I think I'm capable of this if you think you are.\n\n994\n00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:33.160\nNot everybody, I think most people when given a job have not done every aspect\n\n995\n00:44:33.160 --> 00:44:34.120\nof that job\n\n996\n00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:35.760\nbefore they're given the job.\n\n997\n00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:40.660\nThey have the capability to learn, they've proven that, they have the talent to\n\n998\n00:44:40.660 --> 00:44:41.040\nlead\n\n999\n00:44:41.040 --> 00:44:42.840\nand they're given the opportunity.\n\n1000\n00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:47.570\nSo I try to advise women to come in to an interview or to advocate for\n\n1001\n00:44:47.570 --> 00:44:48.880\nthemselves more\n\n1002\n00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.640\nand quote unquote in our book, Be Like Greg.\n\n1003\n00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:53.760\nGreg self advocates, you can do that too.\n\n1004\n00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:57.280\nYou know, you talk in your book and you highlight Steve Reinemann, former\n\n1005\n00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.640\nchairman of PepsiCo\n\n1006\n00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:04.600\nas an outstanding leader, advancing the cause of really attacking gender bias.\n\n1007\n00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:08.240\nWhat do you do that others should emulate?\n\n1008\n00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:13.440\nTalked about it, put goals against it, did research to find out what it was,\n\n1009\n00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:14.080\nwhat are\n\n1010\n00:45:14.080 --> 00:45:15.080\nour numbers.\n\n1011\n00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:21.020\nI don't believe when he first started when we did an employee culture survey\n\n1012\n00:45:21.020 --> 00:45:21.360\nthat we\n\n1013\n00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:26.240\nactually broke it out for the first time we broke out diverse women separate\n\n1014\n00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:26.960\nfrom diverse\n\n1015\n00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.560\nmen.\n\n1016\n00:45:28.560 --> 00:45:32.440\nAnd then we even worked at Hispanic versus African American versus Asian.\n\n1017\n00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:33.600\nThat hadn't been done before.\n\n1018\n00:45:33.600 --> 00:45:35.360\nSo he used data.\n\n1019\n00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:38.680\nHe looked at turnover rates by different population groups.\n\n1020\n00:45:38.680 --> 00:45:41.960\nHe asked his senior leaders to mentor a particular group.\n\n1021\n00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:47.910\nAnd when I sat and saw the research and I saw that women of color had the worst\n\n1022\n00:45:47.910 --> 00:45:48.920\nexperience\n\n1023\n00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:54.160\nof PepsiCo and we're leaving at twice the rate of white men.\n\n1024\n00:45:54.160 --> 00:45:55.160\nI raised my hand.\n\n1025\n00:45:55.160 --> 00:45:58.160\nI said, I'm not a woman of color, but I would really like to lead this group.\n\n1026\n00:45:58.160 --> 00:46:02.720\nI'd like to understand what the issues are and try to help, which we made a lot\n\n1027\n00:46:02.720 --> 00:46:03.560\nof progress\n\n1028\n00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:04.560\non.\n\n1029\n00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:10.200\nBut I think what Steve did is first, what leaders do, give a vision.\n\n1030\n00:46:10.200 --> 00:46:14.640\nHe identified and put his finger on the fact that the PepsiCo at the time he\n\n1031\n00:46:14.640 --> 00:46:15.320\ntook over\n\n1032\n00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:19.240\nwas a little bit of a male, white male fraternity.\n\n1033\n00:46:19.240 --> 00:46:25.960\nAnd from a business standpoint, recognized that the talent pool, the future was\n\n1034\n00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:26.520\nnot all\n\n1035\n00:46:26.520 --> 00:46:32.020\nwhite men from high end Ivy League schools, that he had to change the culture\n\n1036\n00:46:32.020 --> 00:46:32.520\nand he had\n\n1037\n00:46:32.520 --> 00:46:34.040\nto change the representation.\n\n1038\n00:46:34.040 --> 00:46:36.200\nSo first, create the vision.\n\n1039\n00:46:36.200 --> 00:46:40.480\nSecondly, create very simple roadmap of what we need to do.\n\n1040\n00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:42.480\nWe're going to increase our representation.\n\n1041\n00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.780\nWe're going to get the turnover rate to be even across groups and I'm going to\n\n1042\n00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:46.160\nask my\n\n1043\n00:46:46.160 --> 00:46:48.720\nsenior leaders to lead.\n\n1044\n00:46:48.720 --> 00:46:52.520\nAnd he just followed it and I think he made it one of the tenets of his, I\n\n1045\n00:46:52.520 --> 00:46:53.800\nthink new CEOs,\n\n1046\n00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:56.910\nyou would know better than me of corporations say, this is what I want to be\n\n1047\n00:46:56.910 --> 00:46:57.560\nknown for.\n\n1048\n00:46:57.560 --> 00:47:00.940\nThis is what I think I can really impact the company on and he made diversity\n\n1049\n00:47:00.940 --> 00:47:01.440\nhis number\n\n1050\n00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:05.200\none goal besides obviously driving performance of the company.\n\n1051\n00:47:05.200 --> 00:47:09.490\nAnd speaking of driving performance, I know at one point Steve told you while\n\n1052\n00:47:09.490 --> 00:47:10.040\nyou were\n\n1053\n00:47:10.040 --> 00:47:12.440\nat Pepsi, this exercise, he really do you want to do it.\n\n1054\n00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:16.250\nI wanted you to think through the business by saying, pretend your division is\n\n1055\n00:47:16.250 --> 00:47:16.680\ngoing\n\n1056\n00:47:16.680 --> 00:47:19.520\nto be acquired by a private equity fund.\n\n1057\n00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:21.160\nTell me what they would do.\n\n1058\n00:47:21.160 --> 00:47:22.960\nWhat did that experience teach you?\n\n1059\n00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:28.750\nOverall, what the exercise was designed to do is to say, step back, take away\n\n1060\n00:47:28.750 --> 00:47:30.640\nyour blinders,\n\n1061\n00:47:30.640 --> 00:47:35.020\nget out of the moment you're in and all of the assumptions you, without\n\n1062\n00:47:35.020 --> 00:47:36.000\nthinking about\n\n1063\n00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.280\nmake and look at it from the outside in.\n\n1064\n00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:43.230\nAs somebody who said, I'm going to look at your business and where are the\n\n1065\n00:47:43.230 --> 00:47:43.840\nlevers to\n\n1066\n00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:47.600\ncreate more top line growth, more profit growth.\n\n1067\n00:47:47.600 --> 00:47:52.800\nAnd can you look with a new clarity at what you should do?\n\n1068\n00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:54.920\nYou're a very sought out speaker.\n\n1069\n00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:59.290\nYou're an aspiring speaker and you talk about innovation and the impact it can\n\n1070\n00:47:59.290 --> 00:48:00.200\nhave on business\n\n1071\n00:48:00.200 --> 00:48:01.200\ngrowth.\n\n1072\n00:48:01.200 --> 00:48:03.520\nWhat's the big lesson that you share?\n\n1073\n00:48:03.520 --> 00:48:05.480\nA couple of things.\n\n1074\n00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:10.030\nI think everybody, most people agree you need to innovate and that good ideas\n\n1075\n00:48:10.030 --> 00:48:10.640\ndon't have\n\n1076\n00:48:10.640 --> 00:48:14.910\nto be necessarily new, that you could take an idea that you've had somewhere\n\n1077\n00:48:14.910 --> 00:48:15.440\nelse and\n\n1078\n00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:16.800\nimprove it.\n\n1079\n00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:22.520\nI think my biggest lesson is fewer, bigger innovations.\n\n1080\n00:48:22.520 --> 00:48:27.520\nA lot of people think innovation and they make small tweaks to a lot of things.\n\n1081\n00:48:27.520 --> 00:48:32.800\nVersus do one thing really well and make sure you're completely aligned.\n\n1082\n00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:38.200\nI had a boss once, Phil Marano, that went on to be CEO of Levi's and I remember\n\n1083\n00:48:38.200 --> 00:48:38.920\nhim saying\n\n1084\n00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.520\nto me and it really stuck with me.\n\n1085\n00:48:41.520 --> 00:48:49.230\nHe said, Don, he said, I will take a 75% idea, executed 100%, rather than an\n\n1086\n00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:49.960\nidea that's\n\n1087\n00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:54.200\n100% and gets executed 75%.\n\n1088\n00:48:54.200 --> 00:48:58.390\nAnd that stuck with me to say, one, I believe that innovations have different\n\n1089\n00:48:58.390 --> 00:48:59.000\nscale and\n\n1090\n00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.900\nif you're worth really changing the trajectory of your business, make sure your\n\n1091\n00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:03.560\ninnovation\n\n1092\n00:49:03.560 --> 00:49:05.120\nis a big one.\n\n1093\n00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:10.330\nSecondly, make sure that you have the planning time to really execute behind it\n\n1094\n00:49:10.330 --> 00:49:11.080\nand get the\n\n1095\n00:49:11.080 --> 00:49:15.680\norganizational line behind it so that you get that significant lift.\n\n1096\n00:49:15.680 --> 00:49:19.250\nThere's been a lot of fun and I'd like to have some more with my lightning\n\n1097\n00:49:19.250 --> 00:49:19.800\nround of\n\n1098\n00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:20.800\nQ&A.\n\n1099\n00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:21.800\nAre you ready for this?\n\n1100\n00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:22.800\nI don't know.\n\n1101\n00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:23.800\nLet's try.\n\n1102\n00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:24.800\nAll right.\n\n1103\n00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:27.400\nThe three words others would use to describe you.\n\n1104\n00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.560\nPlastic, driven, warm.\n\n1105\n00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:38.120\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why?\n\n1106\n00:49:38.120 --> 00:49:43.780\nBillie Jean King, because I had a great tennis career and it's changing the\n\n1107\n00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:44.600\nworld.\n\n1108\n00:49:44.600 --> 00:49:46.680\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1109\n00:49:46.680 --> 00:49:50.800\nIn business, probably people trying to do too much.\n\n1110\n00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:52.040\nThat was a weakness of mine.\n\n1111\n00:49:52.040 --> 00:49:55.460\nI always tried to do too much and what I learned through being a leader is you\n\n1112\n00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:56.160\ncannot do a\n\n1113\n00:49:56.160 --> 00:50:01.560\nlot of things and doing a lot of small things well doesn't add up to impact.\n\n1114\n00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:04.000\nDo less better.\n\n1115\n00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.640\nWhat's something about working for the NFL that you'd only know if you'd been\n\n1116\n00:50:07.640 --> 00:50:08.000\non the\n\n1117\n00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.200\ninside?\n\n1118\n00:50:09.200 --> 00:50:14.120\nThe feeling of being down on the field, being right on the edge of the field,\n\n1119\n00:50:14.120 --> 00:50:14.400\nwhen those\n\n1120\n00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:20.830\nplayers are warming up, how large they are, the cacophony in the stadium, the\n\n1121\n00:50:20.830 --> 00:50:21.880\npowerful,\n\n1122\n00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:27.640\nyou feel the competitiveness, you feel the strength, the athleticism.\n\n1123\n00:50:27.640 --> 00:50:29.640\nIt is unbelievable.\n\n1124\n00:50:29.640 --> 00:50:33.360\nIt's the single experience I remember the most and I miss the most.\n\n1125\n00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:35.240\nYou have a wide open Saturday.\n\n1126\n00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:36.760\nHow would you spend your time?\n\n1127\n00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:39.320\nMy ideal Saturday, I would get up and go kayaking.\n\n1128\n00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:41.200\nThen I would go play tennis.\n\n1129\n00:50:41.200 --> 00:50:45.240\nThen I would have some lunch and then I would go out and golf with my husband.\n\n1130\n00:50:45.240 --> 00:50:49.360\nAnd then I'd take the dog in a long run and then have dinner with friends.\n\n1131\n00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:51.000\nAnd then go to bed.\n\n1132\n00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:53.080\nWhat's your favorite book on leadership?\n\n1133\n00:50:53.080 --> 00:50:55.800\nI really don't have a favorite book on leadership.\n\n1134\n00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:56.800\nI don't think there's one.\n\n1135\n00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:00.080\nI take tidbits out a lot of things and weave them together.\n\n1136\n00:51:00.080 --> 00:51:03.040\nWhat's one of your daily rituals, something that you'd never miss?\n\n1137\n00:51:03.040 --> 00:51:05.560\nA cup of tea in the morning before I get going.\n\n1138\n00:51:05.560 --> 00:51:08.880\nIf you turned on your radio in your car, what would we hear?\n\n1139\n00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:10.200\nSeventies music.\n\n1140\n00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:13.240\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n1141\n00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:17.960\nThey wouldn't know that I went on a tour of the Middle East and ended up in\n\n1142\n00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.920\nSaudi Arabia\n\n1143\n00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:22.440\nat a men's drinking club, drinking with bottlers.\n\n1144\n00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:26.840\nThat had to be a one of a kind experience.\n\n1145\n00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:30.780\nWhat's the most powerful thing a leader can say to someone that works with them\n\n1146\n00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:31.080\n?\n\n1147\n00:51:31.080 --> 00:51:32.440\nI believe in you.\n\n1148\n00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:33.440\nFantastic.\n\n1149\n00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.440\nThat's the end of the lightning round.\n\n1150\n00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:41.280\nAs we wrap this up, I hate to ask you the general PAP question.\n\n1151\n00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.040\nBut I'm going to ask it anyway because I think you may have a unique\n\n1152\n00:51:44.040 --> 00:51:44.840\nperspective on\n\n1153\n00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:45.840\nthis.\n\n1154\n00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:51.890\nHow have you balanced the challenges of work and home as an employee and as a\n\n1155\n00:51:51.890 --> 00:51:52.720\nboss?\n\n1156\n00:51:52.720 --> 00:51:57.920\nDo you have any insight that you think is really valuable in that front?\n\n1157\n00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:03.120\nThe advice I gave to my organization at Pepsi, I give to myself, I give to my\n\n1158\n00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:04.760\ndaughters constantly\n\n1159\n00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.400\nis when you're dead, nobody's going to write in your tombstone.\n\n1160\n00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.680\nI wish I'd worked an hour harder every day.\n\n1161\n00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:16.100\nYou're going to write on your tombstone, I wish I had more time with friends\n\n1162\n00:52:16.100 --> 00:52:16.880\nand family.\n\n1163\n00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:19.680\nThat's not to say to leave work, to spend time with friends and family.\n\n1164\n00:52:19.680 --> 00:52:22.760\nIt's about making sure that you have the balance that works for you.\n\n1165\n00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:26.360\nThere's no such thing as completely doing it all and being a superwoman.\n\n1166\n00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:30.690\nIt's doing the right thing for you at the right point in your time and your\n\n1167\n00:52:30.690 --> 00:52:31.680\ncareer.\n\n1168\n00:52:31.680 --> 00:52:37.800\nThe thing I've learned and I advise others to do is don't separate the two.\n\n1169\n00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:43.240\nYou do not have a list of to-dos for work and a list of to-dos for personal.\n\n1170\n00:52:43.240 --> 00:52:46.000\nIt's just never that simple.\n\n1171\n00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:50.200\nWhen your daughter needs to go to the doctor, it's during the day.\n\n1172\n00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:55.440\nAnd now, at night, you have to respond to the email from somebody in business.\n\n1173\n00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:00.550\nSo it's integrate the two and make sure, I was used to say to people, \"Just\n\n1174\n00:53:00.550 --> 00:53:01.360\ntell your\n\n1175\n00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:02.360\nboss.\n\n1176\n00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:05.770\nYou've got to go and take your parent needs to see a doctor and you want to go\n\n1177\n00:53:05.770 --> 00:53:06.920\nwith them.\n\n1178\n00:53:06.920 --> 00:53:08.280\nYou're not going to take the day off.\n\n1179\n00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:10.560\nI'm going to be gone for two or three hours.\n\n1180\n00:53:10.560 --> 00:53:11.800\nI want to make sure I'm not missing.\n\n1181\n00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:13.080\nIs it okay?\n\n1182\n00:53:13.080 --> 00:53:15.520\nIntegrate and be honest.\n\n1183\n00:53:15.520 --> 00:53:16.800\nPeople respect that.\"\n\n1184\n00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:19.440\nAnd I think, again, bring your whole self to work.\n\n1185\n00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.420\nIf you can't be open and honest about what's going on, you don't feel\n\n1186\n00:53:23.420 --> 00:53:24.480\ncomfortable.\n\n1187\n00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:28.680\nIt's really important in your culture that you have to be home for dinner every\n\n1188\n00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:28.680\nnight\n\n1189\n00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:31.440\nand be part of making the dinner and you have to leave.\n\n1190\n00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.970\nYou can say, \"I'll get back online at nine, check things, but I've got to leave\n\n1191\n00:53:34.970 --> 00:53:36.120\nat 5.30.\"\n\n1192\n00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:40.360\nJust being able to do what's right for you and integrate the personal\n\n1193\n00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:41.440\npriorities with\n\n1194\n00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:42.920\nthe business priorities.\n\n1195\n00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:47.880\nI mean, I have a list of to-dos at Pepsi and the NFL and it would be like get\n\n1196\n00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:48.800\nwith CBS\n\n1197\n00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:53.630\nto change how they talk about concussions, make an appointment for Morgan to go\n\n1198\n00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:54.080\nto the\n\n1199\n00:53:54.080 --> 00:53:58.840\ndoctor, all the same list because they're all important to me personally.\n\n1200\n00:53:58.840 --> 00:53:59.840\nLast question.\n\n1201\n00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:03.840\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders?\n\n1202\n00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:07.130\nPeople come out of college and more likely business school and they say, \"This\n\n1203\n00:54:07.130 --> 00:54:07.400\nis the\n\n1204\n00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:09.840\njob I want.\"\n\n1205\n00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:13.080\nMy advice, life changes too much.\n\n1206\n00:54:13.080 --> 00:54:17.430\nWhat you set out to do and what you will end up doing would be quite different\n\n1207\n00:54:17.430 --> 00:54:17.720\nand the\n\n1208\n00:54:17.720 --> 00:54:20.240\nworld is changing so quickly.\n\n1209\n00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:23.960\nThere are so many opportunities you don't know that will come ahead.\n\n1210\n00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:29.760\nMy advice to you is to not look far into the distance, look today at what you\n\n1211\n00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:30.280\nwant your\n\n1212\n00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:36.000\nimpact to be and where you could have impact and spend your time focused on\n\n1213\n00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:36.560\nwhat you can\n\n1214\n00:54:36.560 --> 00:54:40.830\naccomplish in your current role and if there's things that you think you can\n\n1215\n00:54:40.830 --> 00:54:42.040\naccomplish outside\n\n1216\n00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:45.280\nof your current role, you can participate in task forces, whatever.\n\n1217\n00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.320\nBut don't try to think two and three steps ahead.\n\n1218\n00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:50.830\nBuild yourself into the best leader you can be today and those new\n\n1219\n00:54:50.830 --> 00:54:51.680\nopportunities will\n\n1220\n00:54:51.680 --> 00:54:52.680\npresent themselves.\n\n1221\n00:54:52.680 --> 00:54:57.160\nDon, you're a classic example who really walks a talk on what you just said.\n\n1222\n00:54:57.160 --> 00:55:00.620\nI mean, what you've done with the book that you've just written I think is\n\n1223\n00:55:00.620 --> 00:55:01.320\ngoing to have\n\n1224\n00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:04.640\na huge impact on so many people.\n\n1225\n00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:08.760\nI have to tell you after reading the book, it opened my eyes up to a lot of\n\n1226\n00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:09.480\nthings.\n\n1227\n00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.890\nI felt pretty good about myself overall as I read the book, but there are some\n\n1228\n00:55:12.890 --> 00:55:13.280\nthings\n\n1229\n00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:14.880\nthat I read that I said, \"You know what?\n\n1230\n00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:15.880\nI've done that before.\n\n1231\n00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:17.880\nI could handle that better.\"\n\n1232\n00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:23.440\nI think what I loved about the book is it is not just for women, it is for men\n\n1233\n00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:24.120\ntoo.\n\n1234\n00:55:24.120 --> 00:55:28.300\nI encourage both women, as I mentioned, I gave the book to my daughter and I'm\n\n1235\n00:55:28.300 --> 00:55:28.960\nglad I read\n\n1236\n00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:32.290\nit because I picked up a few things that hopefully will make me a better leader\n\n1237\n00:55:32.290 --> 00:55:32.600\nas I\n\n1238\n00:55:32.600 --> 00:55:33.600\ngo forward.\n\n1239\n00:55:33.600 --> 00:55:35.600\nSo thank you for taking the time to write the book.\n\n1240\n00:55:35.600 --> 00:55:40.400\nIt's not easy to do, but you did it and it takes courage and congratulations.\n\n1241\n00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:42.520\nIt's been fun talking to you today.\n\n1242\n00:55:42.520 --> 00:55:43.520\nThank you.\n\n1243\n00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:57.640\nDon has so much energy and I absolutely love her drive.\n\n1244\n00:55:57.640 --> 00:56:01.160\nAnd boy, she is using that drive to make sure the cultures we're building are\n\n1245\n00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:01.640\ngetting\n\n1246\n00:56:01.640 --> 00:56:03.580\nbetter and better too.\n\n1247\n00:56:03.580 --> 00:56:07.700\nYour culture is your top priority, but we really hamper it when we allow either\n\n1248\n00:56:07.700 --> 00:56:08.360\nourselves\n\n1249\n00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:13.010\nor the people on our teams to make assumptions about each other and let bias\n\n1250\n00:56:13.010 --> 00:56:13.920\ncreep in, even\n\n1251\n00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.760\nin ways that may appear very small.\n\n1252\n00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:20.720\nSo this week, ask yourself, how does your culture need to evolve?\n\n1253\n00:56:20.720 --> 00:56:24.320\nMaybe you need to pick up Don's book and be more aware of those small language\n\n1254\n00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:24.800\nchanges\n\n1255\n00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:27.360\nwe can make to reduce gender bias.\n\n1256\n00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:31.870\nOr maybe you need to shift the conversation about remote and in office work to\n\n1257\n00:56:31.870 --> 00:56:32.400\nbe less\n\n1258\n00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.090\nabout the details of all of it and more about how your culture is going to grow\n\n1259\n00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:37.460\nin this\n\n1260\n00:56:37.460 --> 00:56:39.800\nnew workforce model.\n\n1261\n00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.760\nCarve out time this week to consider how your culture can evolve.\n\n1262\n00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:48.080\nI promise you, whatever time you invest in building a better culture will\n\n1263\n00:56:48.080 --> 00:56:48.700\nalways give\n\n1264\n00:56:48.700 --> 00:56:50.540\nyou a good return.\n\n1265\n00:56:50.540 --> 00:56:52.640\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1266\n00:56:52.640 --> 00:56:56.780\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders keep evolving their culture.\n\n1267\n00:56:56.780 --> 00:57:01.330\nComing up next on how leaders lead is our best of quarter one episode, where we\n\n1268\n00:57:01.330 --> 00:57:01.640\ntake\n\n1269\n00:57:01.640 --> 00:57:05.870\nso much of the great wisdom from the last three months and highlight the most\n\n1270\n00:57:05.870 --> 00:57:06.560\nimpactful\n\n1271\n00:57:06.560 --> 00:57:10.100\ntakeaways for you like this one right here.\n\n1272\n00:57:10.100 --> 00:57:15.580\nWell, I think it depends on your philosophical approach to people.\n\n1273\n00:57:15.580 --> 00:57:19.980\nAre they an investment or are they an expense?\n\n1274\n00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:22.260\nI think they're an investment.\n\n1275\n00:57:22.260 --> 00:57:26.440\nAnd if you invest in people, they're going to give you great customer service\n\n1276\n00:57:26.440 --> 00:57:27.180\nand deliver\n\n1277\n00:57:27.180 --> 00:57:28.180\ngreat results.\n\n1278\n00:57:28.180 --> 00:57:32.580\nAnd I've certainly seen that in spades here at UPS and I saw it at Home Depot\n\n1279\n00:57:32.580 --> 00:57:33.100\ntoo.\n\n1280\n00:57:33.100 --> 00:57:36.610\nIt doesn't mean that you shouldn't constantly look for opportunities to\n\n1281\n00:57:36.610 --> 00:57:38.160\noptimize your organizations\n\n1282\n00:57:38.160 --> 00:57:43.400\nand drive productivity through technology and other innovation.\n\n1283\n00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:47.800\nBut if you invest in your people, they'll do amazing things for you.\n\n1284\n00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:52.240\nIt's a huge bang for your time, so be sure to come back again next week.\n\n1285\n00:57:52.240 --> 00:57:56.110\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every\n\n1286\n00:57:56.110 --> 00:57:56.840\nThursday you\n\n1287\n00:57:56.840 --> 00:58:01.120\nget to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1288\n00:58:01.120 --> 00:58:05.010\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1289\n00:58:05.010 --> 00:58:05.820\napply to your\n\n1290\n00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:09.120\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1291\n00:58:09.120 --> 00:58:19.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1292\n00:58:19.120 --> 00:58:29.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Don Hudson, the former president and CEO of Pepsi Cola, North America, and former CMO of the National Football League. Now, look, you don't work for Pepsi unless you love competition. And Don absolutely has that competitive drive to keep pushing for better ideas and bigger impact. But she's also passionate about helping leaders build cultures that allow everyone to win. You know, we may not even realize the ways we've allowed assumptions and bias to shape our team's culture, but they're real. And if we aren't intentional about eliminating them, they can really hamper the growth of your people and the growth of your organization as well. Like every great leader, I know, Don understands the power of a strong, diverse culture where everyone can win. And this conversation is full of practical ways. You can build one. So here's my conversation with my good friend, hen soon to be yours, Don Hudson.

Done I understand you just went through this 100 year birthday celebration. Tell us about it.

Dawn Hudson 1:33

In October of this year, my husband turned 75. And our daughter turned 25 Within four days of each other. So we thought, let's take her to Europe. And she's about to get married next year to a guy she met at the Culinary Institute in New York. And she works for a YouTube chef as a kitchen producer. And he works at Michelin star restaurants. And they love food. And her fiance had not been to Europe, and she had only been to London in high school. So we said okay, how many days can you get off, they got off eight days. And we said alright, we can cover three markets. We'll go London, Paris, and Copenhagen. And we ate our way through all three, and I am still paying the price of having to exercise especially hard this week trying to get the pounds off.

David Novak 2:20

That's fantastic. And you know, we both worked at PepsiCo together. And I remember that you were just known for being super, super competitive. I mean, you are very competitive, and a very good athlete. And as I was doing my research, I learned that you do whatever it takes to stay competitive to beat the younger people, whether it's paddle ball tennis, or our golf, how's that going? Are you beating up on the youngsters? Or you know, how are you faring

Dawn Hudson 2:48

all I can say as in, I'm still playing in the regular leagues for tennis. So I compete against 18 Plus, and I do that in Paddle Tennis as well. And I do that in golf. So I have to at some point, maybe I'll do the 50 Plus or whatever, but I'm not there yet. So as long as the knees keep moving, and I keep running, I'm going to keep doing it. I'm the oldest of three daughters born to a father who was one of four boys. And a number of them were semi professional baseball players. So I became the sunny didn't have and I got groomed in sports from the get go and love sports. And I am convinced that the success I've had in business is related and the competitiveness I have to sports sports analogy. You know, you're on the tennis court, you're trying to sell only you out there. You've got no complaints. You can't have any excuses. I sort of learned but sports is a big part of my background and a big part of my leadership.

David Novak 3:45

I'm really curious to know on the business front, what's a story that would highlight how you've evolved to stay competitive as you've grown in your career?

Dawn Hudson 3:54

Well, you cannot work at Pepsi with coke in the backyard and not inherently be competitive. The whole nature of the industry, as you know is it's them or it's us. We try harder and we move faster and we come up with ideas more quickly. So definitely be a competition. I believe that you learn and grow as a leader as an employee. When times are tougher, more so than when times are easy. It's easy when things are going well to come out with some more put some more money behind it. Success breeds success. It's harder when things aren't going well. And I can think of one story in particular that you will have an appreciation with with your background, where when I was the CEO of Pepsi, our largest food service customer after yum was subway restaurants. And my team in food service was working on renewing subway and we hit all the right meetings and write things and you can learn a lot around making sure that you're listening completely but we thought everything was going our way. And then we got a call All and they had selected coke. And that was a dagger to the heart, your largest customer and food service, you lose. Now you guys at young were happy because it stepped up to be our largest customer. But at the time, it was a lot of volume and it was very visible. And I would say the tendency there is to kind of hide and how terrible and you know, it's we'll get on with it and let's go someplace else. But my reaction was nobody signed on the line yet. deals not done. I'm gonna resurrect it. I want to understand why I called it the CEO of subway, tracked him down, talk to him. I knew he was a fan of ours. There were a lot of politics going on. So let's have another meeting. And I think I tried I got about two weeks of meetings and came close to reversing the decision didn't succeed, but came close. And so leaning in to problems not running away from them is something that I think makes for great employees and great leaders. And I think one of the biggest compliments I've gotten in my professional life was by Steve Ryan, a man who is my boss and the CEO of Pepsi at the time. And he said, Don, he said, You are a person I want in my foxhole with me is the number one person I want to jump in the foxhole with me. And I married an army guy. I lived through a military analogies, but he was really saying, you know, when the going gets tough, I want you on my team. And I thought that was a great compliment.

David Novak 6:27

Absolutely. And, you know, speaking and leaning into big problems. You just wrote a new book called you should smile more. You know how to dismantle the gender bias in the workforce. What drove you to write this book and what's the big idea behind the book,

Dawn Hudson 6:42

the big ideas, little ideas, but I'll get to that. So you interviewed and renewing, and Indra Nooyi has a wonderful ability to pull people who have worked at Pepsi women, and going on to other interesting places to work back together to break bread to have a glass of wine. And it was at one of these events in Greenwich when a number of my associates, former associates at Pepsi got together. And we were talking and we were this was in 2019. We were kind of laughing at the things that happened to us 20 years ago at PepsiCo, and somebody might have been me made the comment, boy, thank goodness, there's more women in the workforce today. That doesn't happen. And people laughed and said, Yeah, because we're all laughing. But some of these situations weren't so laughable. And that caused someone else to say, you know, I just read an article recently, it actually suggested that well, the numbers of diversity, women and people of color in the workforce is significantly higher. The culture and the feeling of inclusion is not changed much. And so a few of us that were challenged to you know, go learn about and continue the conversation. So we did, and I would say Katie Lacey and Angelique, Belmar, and see Nicholson and Mitzi shore, and myself, and Laurie Marcus, we googled and reread. And we actually came back together and said, You know what, it's shocking. But there really is a problem here that the numbers are increasing, and the culture isn't. And at the time, it was very much me, too. Everyone was talking about big, big, sexual issues in the marketplace. We weren't talking about those, we were talking about these little things that happen every day that drove us nuts. And if we'd made a big deal of any one of them, we would thought we were really making a mountain out of a molehill. But they were important. So in that summer, somebody heard that we had been talking this group of us and they said Adweek, was doing a festival in New York City, would we come and talk to some of the employees and advertising about our experience. And we'd got some pictures drawn up by a young art director to capture in a humorous manner, some of the situations we wanted to talk about. And it went well, it turned out it was the most engaging thing, people could really relate to it and ask questions, it brought men into the conversation because it wasn't trying to point the finger it was trying to say, hey, if you're in the room, you can help out let us educate you around the things that make us feel uncomfortable. And so many men that read our book, and maybe you did say I didn't know that she's you know, that's a new perspective for me.

David Novak 9:25

No, I understand. You know, why you almost called the book still, because the stuff that's in the book just continues to happen, right?

Dawn Hudson 9:34

Yeah. So the reason we call that you should smile more is so of the six of us. I'm the only one of the six that's never been told in a personnel review, that they should smile more. And that's a very personal comment to make to somebody that's not about their performance. And it's not very men I've met who've been told that they should smile more in a in a review of their performance. And it's particularly told to Women of Color. So when the book was named, you should smile more. And you tell a woman that's worked in business, they kind of chuckle, knowingly, that this is something that they're often told, I've had many a guy, I feel badly for them to say they see the cover of the book, hey, you should smile more, and they pause. And they say, that's nice, I should probably smile more to not understanding. So again, that's the purpose of the book. It's not to point fingers, the purpose of the book to say, Let's educate you, you should know this, think about it. And that there's lazy language that is sometimes used in the workforce that can be misinterpreted. Give me another example of lazy language. You know how brutal those PepsiCo personnel reviews were when all of your peers are in a room and you're discussing, you know, somebody that worked in marketing and hearing what the sales perspective was on it, which is really great. Well, sometimes, often, when referring to a guy working in one of the departments, somebody would say, he's a really great guy, which is kind of code for he part of the club. We like him may hang out with him. He's good guy. He's going places. It's a judgment based on potential. You don't hear the corollary, she's a great gal. You tend to hear for the women, what is she done? Has she proven that it's very, you know, performance oriented? So when some of us are in those meetings, you hear, he's a great guy. So okay, what did he do this year? What do you think he can accomplish? And the purpose is that let's be more descriptive. And also, let's give the benefit if we're judging people on capability, let's make sure we're judging everyone and giving them the benefit of the doubt. And that one group doesn't have to over prove their ability to perform to get promoted, where the other one gets a message of, we believe in you. So we're gonna give you even though you haven't proven you can do it, we're gonna give you this shot. So that's just an example of sort of general language. These are little teeny things. And one would think that when the ranks of women and diverse people have grown so much in corporate America, that just by sheer virtue of there being more of them, that some of these things wouldn't happen. But I think that's why still, it's still happening, surprised us. And yet, as we dug into it, it didn't, because you have to pretty overtly try to change some of these very subtle, some people call them micro aggressions, that feels very aggressive to us. So we call them these micro moments, there are moments that are important for one person in the room, but may not be noticed by the others. So you know, if you walk in on a Monday morning, and the room is talking about Sunday Night Football, I'm gonna love it, I'm gonna participate. But they're very, could be somebody else who doesn't participate doesn't know football. And if you see that person's looking down at their phone, during email, or whatever, during the meeting, you want to engage them. So say, Hey, what did you do last night, or try to change the subject and also, we advise women in that situation, don't disengage and look at your phone, because that opportunity for camaraderie and discussion is really important to get to know people and don't just, you know, fade into the corner.

David Novak 13:23

You know, this book is all about gender bias, which, you know, obviously exists. Yet you rose to be the CEO of Pepsi Cola Company. How'd you break through the clutter as a female leader? I mean, how did you do it?

Dawn Hudson 13:36

First of all, I didn't set out to do that I set out to do my job as well as I could to have fun and to have impact. And I was lucky along the way to have people that recognize this and gave me an opportunity. I've had one of the book talks about mentors versus sponsors. I've always had a lot of mentors. So it's easy to get in business people that you you know, have lunch with, you ask questions of, but sponsors, people that will really go to bat for you. I've been lucky to have female and male sponsors that really advocated for me, and I will tell you one of the you don't know one of the breakthrough things, I think that propelled my career was getting the national sponsorship of the NFL for Pepsi. At that particular time, I was chief marketing officer. And you know, in the beverage business, when it's unaffordable for either Coke or Pepsi to put money on the table to win every single deal so you figure out which ones you go into to be a spoiler for the other guy, I'm gonna go in and bid to make cokes price go up, and which ones are really going to get in there and try to win. And the NFL was one I think that the PepsiCo thought we didn't have a shot out and we would just go in and be a spoiler, but I don't like to be a spoiler on anything. I want to go in and go for it. So I took the naive point of view that we're gonna go with this We're gonna bring better ideas. And so working with sports group with the marketing group and working with our outside agency, we had a pretty simple premise that you know, footballs about entertainment and Pepsi's entertainment brand. And there should be things that we could do uniquely together and took it to them and was a matter of three weeks won the deal. And I think Roger Goodell at the time was head of sponsorship, among other things. And he was looking to show that he could do things differently. And so it was good timing. Anyway, we got the deal done. And I think that they were so incredulous that Pepsi was actually the sponsor of the National Football League for the first time ever, that I think that factored into a decision to elevate me when the president's job opened up.

David Novak 15:47

You talk about your sports background with your family earlier, how much did that help you moving up the ladder in the corporate world? Did it make men feel more comfortable with you that you could sit and chat with them about what happened on Sunday night? And was that a big factor?

Dawn Hudson 16:02

I think it absolutely helped me, I grew up playing competitive tennis. And I subsequently have learned about Paddle Tennis that I love playing it outside, in a chicken coop. But I also took up golf when I married a golfer. And Golf has turned out as you well know, to be a very effective way to spend four hours with somebody and really get to know them. And when you're running a bottling organization have largely men and their privately held at the time separate from PepsiCo, going out and playing golf for four hours was a great way to get to know people personally, in addition to professionally and allowed you to use your relationship when the tough questions came up, to get through the hard that Sports teaches you that. And sports mate gave me that opportunity. And I'll add one more thing. If you can take money off of a bottler in a golf round, you automatically get respect. So five bucks is five bucks. And I do believe it helped me no question sports helped me.

David Novak 17:03

One of the things I really enjoyed about your book is it provides tangible examples of what you should do as an employee, as a boss. And as a witness, someone that's just watching what's going on. And you talk about each of those three things. That's why I think the book is so practical, and I really love passing it on to my daughter, Ashley. But anyway, when you look at the workplace, what's something that's going on in the workplace right now, that absolutely drives you crazy, you know, that men are oblivious to?

Dawn Hudson 17:38

I think one of the things that gets me right now and I'm gonna slightly answer the question differently. David, is, we are in a time in America where people seem focused on am I going to make people go back in the office three days a week, four days a week? What days of the week? Are they going to be able to be totally virtual? Am I going to let them stay where they move to or not? A very transactional? Thinking about how the workforce is going to evolve as the result of COVID? We're kind of drives me crazy, is that the conversation is not at the same time about how do we create in light of how we're going to do our work? How are we going to create the culture that is going to bind our people if they are remote, and make sure that we're building a strong culture because that's what retains employees. People have a lot of options today. And people are very quick to say I'm gonna go do my own thing. I'm going to jump ship. What drives me nuts is the culture discussion isn't heightened right now. It's actually reduced at a time when I think it's critical for corporate America. We may not even

David Novak 18:53

realize the ways we've allowed assumptions and biases to shape our team's culture, but they're real. And if we aren't intentional about eliminating them, they can really hamper the growth of your people and the growth of your organization as well. I talk a lot about how important it is for leaders to have a high level of self awareness. I mean, without self awareness, you really don't know yourself. And if you don't know yourself, then you can't grow yourself. And you know, that's really what this podcast is all about. My most recent book take charge of you how self coaching can transform your life and career is an excellent resource for anyone looking to increase their self awareness. The book walks you through a process of how to really understand yourself to figure out what you're good at what builds your joy, what blocks your joy, and tons more. And by going through this process, you'll get a deep understanding of what you can do to continue to grow and get better. The book is jam packed with simple exercises that will increase your self awareness and keep you connected to your personal growth and development. The Self coaching process was a total game changer for me. And I know it will be for you to get your copy of take charge of you today on Amazon, or wherever books are sold.

There's no question that culture, every great company that every great leader I talked to, they make it their top priority for exactly that reason. You've got to have that culture to drive results. One of the things you talk about in the book is Office housework, which is like where when it's time to take notes, you have the woman in the room takes notes. And you know, one of my really great friends was the late Brenda Barnes, who I'm sure you knew she was the CEO of Sara Lee, and also Chief Operating Officer and President Pepsi. But she always told me that she thought it was a big advantage for her. Because she was asked to take the notes because she was able to be at the center of the room, you know, synthesize everybody's points of views, and, you know, be much more than a notetaker. And it's separator. What's your perspective on it?

Dawn Hudson 21:04

I love Brenda, you know, I followed in her footsteps in a way people say, Oh, what was it like to lead Pepsi Cola, largely male organization? I said, Well, I wasn't the first Brenda was the first. But where I would differ from her is? Yes. I think when you take the notes, you actually don't participate as much in the conversation, because you're having to note take everything. And I think also that there's an added amount of work for you to do with it after the meeting is over to summarize the notes and send them out. And yes, there is power in what she said, in the ability to articulate what exactly was happened at the meeting and direct. But there's also the negative is more time, and you maybe can't fully participate. But I think it's more than just taking the notes in the meeting. When I started at Compton advertising. I was doing well. So what's the first thing they asked me to? Do? You know not? Would you participate in our task force to see if we can grow the Procter and Gamble business? That'd be great. Would you participate in our task force to try to get more business in besides Procter and Gamble? Would it participate? No, would you run the company's Christmas party, I'm 24 years old, and they're going to ask me to put together an outside party for 1000 people, I guess it's a compliment to my organizational capability that I was asked to do that. But that took a tremendous amount of work. And yet, at the end of the day, the fact that I had run a successful Christmas party had nothing to do with whether I got the next promotion or not. And in fact, it took a lot of time away from me. And that's what we say is Office housework is just as a leader, make sure that you're giving that responsibility evenly across everyone. Because if you're asked to throw the party, and you're asked to take the notes, and you're asked to participate in this diversity council and participate in this diversity council, in aggregate, it's a lot of your time, it's taking you away from doing your job. And it might not result in you're getting that raise or getting promoted, you might get an attaboy pat on the back, or add a girl, but not as meaningful as participating some other types of extracurricular work for the company. I talk about one thing you said which is really important to us, that we weren't going to tell women, this book was written to help people like your daughter, figure out how to navigate the circumstances they find themselves in. And because there's six sisters, every situation has two or three of us offering our perspective on what we do. Because you might relate to, you know, Laura, using humor, or C using facts. But one of us you might relate to so there's multiple points of view. But that saying the problem is women and women have to solve it or learn how to suffer through it. What we want to do is change culture. So what you have to do is ask the other people in the room, the men and the women to come in and help. And if you can sensitize bystanders witnesses, who are there to actually do something, it's really easy. There's a meeting going on just happens a lot of times to women and sometimes men. And there's a discussion going on, there's a problem in the business, you say I have an idea. What if we did this? And the discussion continues, and few other people say things. And then Joe articulates what I just said, slightly different words. And everyone says, oh, chill. That's a great idea. Let's go do that. Well, all of a sudden, I feel badly. Why didn't you hear me? And how easy would it have been for Joe? to just say, I want to build on Don's idea, or for someone in the room or the boss to say I liked that idea. Don had a similar idea. Let's all talk about it. So by having point of view of what if you're in the room you can do to help the situation. Or if you're a boss, is that collection of people that actually can change culture.

David Novak 25:08

I also got a kick out of reading about the Zahm Buka. Patrol and and how it impacted your thoughts on business meetings. And you know, I have to admit, the Zen Buddha patrol for everybody that's listening was Roger Enriquez, former chairman of PepsiCo, he loves Nambucca. And he would stay up all night drinking Sambuca with whoever would do it with him. And I have to admit on I took advantage of that as a male. And there are many times when we were the last to leave a restaurant and but you really talk about the adverse effects of that. Talk about that.

Dawn Hudson 25:44

So first of all, just to be in the presence of Roger, and to be part of his Sambuca patrol was like a rite of passage at PepsiCo. And something you really wanted to be a part of, because Roger, in those moments, as you know, would tell stories. And that was folklore, that was history about the company that would really help you understand both the culture and the DNA of who PepsiCo and Pepsi was. So you wanted to be there. But in my particular case, I was seven months pregnant, and not able to drink. And so trying to stay up seven months pregnant till four in the morning, while everybody else is laughing and getting more and more drunk and stupid, having a great time. And I'm like, I'm not having that great time. I want to listen and hear the stories. I'm trying to participate. But my water just doesn't taste really good at four in the morning. That was just a sort of flip side for me if it was bad timing for Sambuca patrol for me.

David Novak 26:39

So what do you do? If you're Roger Enrico? Do you not have the Zen Buka? You go to bed at 10 o'clock, you don't stay up?

Dawn Hudson 26:45

Roger Enrico starts earlier. He starts telling us stories. When there's more people around the table, not less. Everybody wants to stay up till four in the morning, go for it. You know, I'm not saying don't stay up till four in the morning. I'm just saying start the folklore start telling the story sooner when there's more people there. And the second thing is Roger love that I would never take that away from him. But there were one or two of the senior leaders could have. If they saw some younger employees that weren't as engaged. They could have said, You know what, there's a bunch of us packing it in and the rest of you guys stay, but they could have left with a group to give a group permission to leave that wanted to leave, and not make the junior person feel awkward in a having to be the only one leaving

David Novak 27:30

before you were the CEO of PepsiCo, you were the chief marketing officer. How would you say your background in marketing has equipped you to be a better leader? What skills and marketing Have you really applied to how you lead people

Dawn Hudson 27:44

listening? To be a good marketer, you have to listen to your consumers. You have to hear what they like. You have to hear what they don't like. You have to listen to how younger people are interacting different than older people, you have to be a student of people. So when you're a leader, you have to listen to your organization. You can't just say I'm always right all the time. And you have to bring out the best I think leaders are champions of their people to bring out the best. So I think listening is an is an extremely important skill. You know,

David Novak 28:18

one of the things that I was curious to see was that, you know, you were the CEO of Pepsi Cola, and then you go be the Chief Marketing Officer at the NFL go from being a general manager back to a functional leader. That seemed like an interesting move to be what what made you want to go back into the functional route versus pursuing another CEO type job.

Dawn Hudson 28:40

So a little background, I left Pepsi in 2008 when the soft drink business had gone from being the darling of PepsiCo, growing a lot of fun to grow at a lot of fun to come up with innovation, to being perceived by people as not healthy for you. And declining at 7% per year. So my job turned from being an innovator. You just couldn't innovate the non-carbonated business fast enough to make up for the decline and carbonated so anyway, I left and I was going to go be a CEO of another type company and I came very close to CEO for Dunkin Donuts. But it took a long time. And after I had left PepsiCo and I spent more time with my girls, I made a decision that I didn't have anything to prove that I didn't need to go be CEO of a bigger company. What I needed to do is find ways to get fulfilment in my professional life in a way that worked with my kids. So I made the decision to go and join corporate boards as a board director but also to be a leader of a consulting firm in the consumer practice where they had a big practice and education Parthenon and they didn't have a big consumer practice. So that was my personal decision. So that's where I stepped off, if you will, the CEO path, never thinking I was going to go back to being a chief marketing officer thinking I was going to use my general management experience to help people in the consulting world. And to help in my board of director role. We sold Parthenon to Ernst and Young in 2014, I was thinking about what I was going to do, and I was probably more going to do entrepreneurial things and continue doing my boards of directors. But I was sitting at my desk one day, and my phone rang, and it was Roger Goodell. And I had talked to him. And he was a neighbor of mine, but I hadn't talked to him in a few years. And I've been very careful that once he was named Commissioner, I didn't try to hang on his coattails. But he said to me, Don, look, I want to bring a woman into my senior team. And I want someone who knows sports, but who has an outside in perspective, and he said, I know, you know us really well, I have no idea what you're doing. Would you consider coming to the NFL? And the role would be head of marketing and running the events business, throwing the Super Bowl, taking games around the world? And he said, and if you're not able to do it, will you help me find the right woman? So, of course, I'll help you find the right woman. I said, But you know, right now I'm in the process of selling. And, you know, it's an interesting time for me, can I have a couple of days. So think about he said, take a couple of days to think about it. I think that cell phone was down on that desk, not 10 seconds, I'm like, wow, that would be a really fun job. I love sports. I know the NFL, I have time. And so I think I yelled out at my husband downstairs and some friends and they all said, Oh my god, that'd be like the perfect next job for you and your career. So it was more about the moment. That's, by the way, how I've worked my career, I don't plan it out that much. I see an opportunity. And I think it through and if it feels right, I go do it. And so I never said um, it was a challenge to go from being a general operator and to being a chief marketing officer. Again, I have to say, but good learning. But it was fun to be part of sports. And the NFL is the biggest sport and being on the inside was a gas.

David Novak 32:09

I know one of the things that you're really well known for is just being a student of consumers. And I was just curious how you looked at the generational shifts? What's going on with how consumers are acting these days, versus the NFL versus Pepsi, for example. And what did you see going on with the consumer?

Dawn Hudson 32:29

So David, I mean, you you point out to Pepsi, when I joined Pepsi, Pepsi was still riding the wave of the baby boomers, campaigns they'd done in the 70s. And they had kind of lost out with Gen X, the follow the boomers, because they didn't really market to that group. And coke got a bigger share of that generation. So I immediately turn my attention to the millennials, the kids of the boomers. And what do we need to do to make sure we connect with that generation because as you well know, younger people drink a lot more beverage than older people. So for soda, it was really important. It sort of got me to be a student of generations and how generations change their involvement with certain categories. So I couldn't help but when I went to the NFL start to study and I had access, the research team worked for me to looking at how were Millennials interacting with football? And how was that the same? And how was that different than their parents? And even Gen Z coming up? How were they starting to react with football. And it was pretty clear that there was some big fundamental changes that every bit as passionate as the parents, but were the parents tended to be very team centric based on where they grew up. They followed whether they moved around the country, they that team was their team, and they follow the team. And they tended to follow their team on television and have to buy things like Sunday Ticket if they move someplace that didn't have that team, but that the younger generation was much more into playing fantasy into knowing about the individual players Yes, following a team but often following a few teams and following players as they move from team to team. My daughter, older daughter's favorite player was Daryl Revis, when he moved from the jets to the Patriots, she shifted her allegiance who would do that from the jets to the Patriots, but that's how she thought we would consider him a traitor. We would consider a traitor. She said, No, I'm a fan of Darryl Rivas and I'm going to follow him where his career takes him. So that caused me to work from an NFL standpoint of what could we do with our digital content, insight into what was going on behind the scenes to let our fans or younger fans actually see because they're much more interested in the things that other people don't know what is going on. You see the TV screen what's going on behind halftime? What goes on when they're in the tunnel about to come out for the halftime show. And so that recruited a lot of marketing opportunities

David Novak 35:01

in that, as I just learned, led to the formation of a new company that you're involved in the startup on, which is called the draft network. It's a digital platform tell us about that.

Dawn Hudson 35:12

No credit to starting at a smarter people than me younger people than me, started this business. But when I left the NFL and I was asked to get involved with this business, it's a digital platform that has former scouts for college in the NFL, right about the players in college that will be likely entering the NFL, and offering their perspective on how they will influence what team they go to in which teams they might fit better with. And there's also it had a game called the mock draft machine where you can actually act like a GM and do a draft. So I started to love being involved with the company, because it was really an insight to how younger people were interacting with football. And so I'm an owner, I don't run anything, I don't hold any positions. And yet, as an owner, I interact with the CEO, and some of the staff and I can't help but try to offer some wisdom, hopefully not too much. When we hit opportunities or bumps in the road.

David Novak 36:11

I want to give back to the NFL for a second. You mentioned the Super Bowl. What's it like to market the Super Bowl as the head of marketing for the NFL? I mean, what what's it take to really make that event even better each year?

Dawn Hudson 36:23

It's a pleasure to market the Super Bowl. David, I would tell you one of the things that I was had the most fun with that I did not appreciate I really didn't understand the job I took when I joined the NFL, Roger said, Oh, you'll have the events department. All right. All right. So I'm going in as chief marketing officer, what I didn't realize is the events department was 24 people. And their job was to throw the Superbowl, throw the Pro Bowl, produce the international games in the UK. And now Germany, too, we move the draft out of New York and made it a festival around the country, I would tell you the creativity involved in an event. And then how you use the things that happen in that event. Again, I think young people want access, special access to different things going on, it's really not about tune in to the Superbowl. It's more get behind the scenes of the Super Bowl, find out what fans are experiencing who's going to the special concert. It's a myriad, it's a tapestry of things that go on around event. That was what was really fun to mark it. And honestly through events to create a lot of those moments,

David Novak 37:33

you mentioned that Roger calls you up and said, I really would like to have a female on my staff, I think you'd be terrific at it. And so there are a lot of times I'm sure when you're in these meetings at the NFL where you're the only female in the room? Did you ever find that to be an advantage? Or was it always something you had to overcome?

Dawn Hudson 37:51

Oh, no, no, definitely at times an advantage, you know, you will stand out. The bigger advantage wasn't just being a woman. The advantage was being a woman with the vantage point of a former sponsor, a vantage point of the fan, in a room of people. So if you think of diversity more broadly than just male, female, I was such a diverse perspective in that room. Because I didn't have a shared experience with most of the people. I didn't spend 2030 years in sports. I didn't play professional football. I didn't live and breathe it. And therefore my perspective was fresher. And I use that. And the fact that I looked different in the room stood up, you know, people noticed when I spoke, but it was definitely an advantage. Definitely different. I will tell you one of the tougher things was think about that Monday morning meeting, when you're on the senior staff, Roger staff, and everybody's talking about the football game. And invariably, they are talking disgruntled lay about some of the calls that caused a lot of fan issues. Now, I've not played football. I've tried PFLAG when I was there because I never had a chance growing up to play football. So it's the closest I got to to playing football. But if you have a couple of professional football players around the room, and Roger Goodell is there, you choose very carefully how you're going to offer your opinion on the call or the play. That's just not how you engage in that conversation. So I would engage with is how the fan reacted to something that happened the night before, because that was an area of expertise for me.

David Novak 39:36

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Don Hudson in just a moment. In her time at both Pepsi and the National Football League. Don worked along Roger Goodell who's the commissioner of the NFL. And just like Don Roger never stops pushing to make things better. In my conversation with Roger, you'll get plenty of wisdom on how to keep your culture from complacency.

Roger Goodell 39:58

The biggest risk we have As the NFL going forward is complacency. And it was probably a little bold to say that to people who were enjoying a great deal of success, but I really do mean it. And in fact, that theme has been intertwined with most of my comments to the ownership over the years, but most specifically, and most recently at our annual meeting this year, because I really do believe the NFL is at a level of success that we've never been before. But I think our opportunities are so great right now that it's on us to seize that. And missing that opportunity would be a failure for all of us.

David Novak 40:35

Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Roger Goodell, Episode 101, here on how leaders lead.

You say that you need to be your own person, you will not succeed if you're not leveraging what makes you you. Tell me how you learn that lesson.

Dawn Hudson 40:57

In my career early on. I'm an idea person, build teams. I'm a cheerleader for people, probably not the best at quick follow up in emails and the written word, even though I learned how to write clearly. So how I think I learned it is people tend to focus when you're younger, on how you can get better in this area, you're not as good in this area, you need to do this better. But then I observed over time that when I get promoted, I most often got promoted on the things that I did well, being able to command presence in a meeting, being able to win business by bringing in a big idea. And so I learned over time that I had more success, leveraging my strengths than spending my time trying to mitigate my weaknesses. That's not to say that you don't have to make your weaknesses better. But if you focus on that, then you're not leveraging and bringing forth what really makes you succeed. And I think people win in life based on leveraging their strengths, not erasing your weaknesses.

David Novak 42:05

I did a podcast with Ginni Rometty, the former CEO of IBM, who I'm sure you know, and Jenny, you know, said when she was asked to be CEO, she didn't think she was necessarily ready for that kind of job. And her husband said, Of course you are. Do you find that women have a tendency to think that they don't have all the i's dotted and the T's crossed to really take on on jobs? I mean, most men, I know, you get offered a promotion go? Absolutely. And whatever you don't know, you'll figure it out. But how about women is the trait that Ginni exhibited there? Is that a female trait that's pretty predominant, or is it? How would you describe Well,

Dawn Hudson 42:43

again, not 100%. But I definitely agree with you that in general, it's a female trait, I do want to tell a story, because when I was promoted to President of Pepsi, I had 11 direct reports, and nine of them were met, and two are women. And over the course of the next year, PepsiCo does what they do, we have an opening for a strong senior person in finance, we're going to take your CFO, we need a new sales leader, and it was the right time for them. So in the course of my first year, leading that division, I went from a staff of nine men and two women, to six men and five women, so about evenly balanced. So when I went through the personnel review phase, for the first year, as CEO, I had an observation not dissimilar to what you're talking about, which is I found that the men tended to come into my office, telling me that they're ready to be promoted, telling me that they need more money, focusing on that sort of can do attitude and what they've done well, but very self promoting, and good for them. The women more often came in my office talking about where they thought they could do better, what they could learn and what wouldn't work on. So you know, a self Betterment point of view. And they would not bring up salary as much would not bring up ready for promotion, they'd asked me, you know, when they thought they would be ready. So I did notice that chutzpah, that positivity around personal potential men had and I often have advised women to come in with that too, and not to do things that are false for you. But think about when you go into a personnel review all the positives that you accomplished in the last year, and be prepared to talk about them. And do say, I think I'm capable of this, if you think you are not everybody. I think most people, when given a job, have not done every aspect of that job before they're given the job. They have the capability to learn. They've proven that they have the talent to lead, and they're given the opportunity. So I tried to advise women to come in to an interview or to advocate for themselves more and quote unquote, in our book be like Greg, Greg self advocates. You can do that too.

David Novak 44:53

You talk in your book, and you highlight Steve Ryman, former chairman of PepsiCo as an outstanding leader are advancing the cause of really attacking gender bias, you know, what do you do that others should emulate?

Dawn Hudson 45:07

Talked about it put goals against it did research to find out what what it was, you know, what are our numbers, I don't believe when he first started, when we did an employee culture survey, that we actually broke it out for the first time we broke out diverse women separate from diverse men. And then we even worked at Hispanic versus African American versus Asian, that hadn't been done before. So he used data. He looked at turnover rates by different population groups, he asked his senior leaders to mentor a particular group. And when I sat and saw the research, and I saw that women of color had the worst experience of PepsiCo, and we're leaving at twice the rate of white men, I have raised my hand, I said, I'm not a woman of color. But I would really like to lead this group, I'd like to understand what the issues are, and try to help which we made a lot of progress on. But I think what Steve did is, first, what leaders do have a vision, he identified and put his finger on the fact that the PepsiCo at the time he took over was a little bit of a male, white male fraternity, and from a business standpoint, recognized that the talent pool, the future was not all white men from high end Ivy League schools, that he had to change the culture and how to change the representation. So first, create the vision. Secondly, create very simple roadmap of what we need to do, we're going to increase our representation, we're going to get the turnover rate to be even across groups. And I'm going to ask my senior leaders to lead. And he just followed it. And I think he made it one of the tenants of his, you know, I think New CEOs who would know better than me of corporations say, This is what I want to be known for, this is what I think I can really impact a company on. And he made diversity, his number one goal, besides obviously, driving performance of the company.

David Novak 47:04

And speaking of driving performance, I know at one point, Steve, told you while you were at Pepsi, this exercise, he really wanted you to think through the business by saying, pretend your division is going to be acquired by a private equity fund. Tell me what they would do. What did that experience teach you?

Dawn Hudson 47:22

Overall, what the exercise was designed to do is to say, step back, take away your blinders. Get out of the moment you're in and all of the assumptions you without thinking about make and look at it from the outside in. As somebody who said, I'm going to look at your business, and where are the levers to create more top line growth, more profit growth? And can you look with new clarity at what you should do?

David Novak 47:52

You're a very sought out speaker, you're an aspiring speaker, and you talk about innovation and the impact it can have on business growth. What's the big lesson that you share?

Dawn Hudson 48:03

A couple of things. I think everybody most people agree you need to innovate. And that good ideas don't have to be necessarily new, that you could take an idea that you've had somewhere else and improve it. I think my biggest lesson is fear, fewer bigger innovations. A lot of people think innovation and they make small tweaks to a lot of things. Versus do one thing really well and make sure you're completely aligned. I had a boss once Phil Mourinho that went on to be CEO of Levi's. And I remember him saying to me, and it really stuck with me. He said, Don, he said, I will take a 75% idea, executed 100%, rather than an idea that's 100% and gets executed 75%. And that stuck with me to say, one, I believe that innovations have different scale. And if you're worth to really changing the trajectory of your business, make sure your innovation is a big one. Secondly, make sure that you have the planning time to really execute behind it and get the organization aligned behind it so that you get that significant lift.

David Novak 49:15

There's been a lot of fun, and I'd like to have some more with my lightning round of q&a. Are you ready for this? I don't know.

Dawn Hudson 49:21

Let's try.

David Novak 49:23

All right, the three words others would use to describe you

Dawn Hudson 49:26

enthusiasts stick driven, warm.

David Novak 49:31

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be and why?

Dawn Hudson 49:37

Billie Jean King, because had a great tennis career and is changing the world. What's your biggest pet peeve? And business probably people tried to do too much. That was a weakness of mine. I always tried to do too much and what I learned through being a leader is you cannot do a lot of things and doing a lot of small things well doesn't add up to to impact, do less better.

David Novak 50:03

What's something about working for the NFL that you'd only know if you'd been on the inside?

Dawn Hudson 50:09

The feeling of being down on the field being right on the edge of the field, when those players are warming up, how large they are the cacophony in the stadium, the powerful. You feel the competitiveness, you feel the strength, the athleticism, it is unbelievable. It's the single experience I remember the most, and I missed the most.

David Novak 50:33

You have a wide open Saturday, how would you spend your time, my ideal Saturday,

Dawn Hudson 50:37

I would get up and go kayaking, then I would go play tennis, then I would have some lunch. And then I would go out and golf with my husband. And then I take the dog and a long run, and then have dinner with friends,

David Novak 50:49

and then go to bed. What's your favorite book on leadership?

Dawn Hudson 50:52

I really don't have a favorite book on leadership. I don't think there's one I take tidbits out a lot of things and weave them together.

David Novak 50:59

What's one of your daily rituals, something

Dawn Hudson 51:01

that you'd never miss a cup of tea in the morning before I get going?

David Novak 51:05

If you turn on your radio in your car, what would we hear? Seven days music? What's something about you that few people would know? They wouldn't know

Dawn Hudson 51:13

that I went on a tour of the Middle East and ended up in Saudi Arabia at a men's drinking club. Drinking with bottlers

David Novak 51:23

had to be a one of a kind experience. You know, what's the most powerful thing a leader can say to someone that works with them? I believe in you. Fantastic. That's the end of the lightning round. As we wrap this up, you know, I hate to ask you the general pap question, you know, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Because I think you may have a unique perspective on this, you know, how have you balanced the challenges of work and home as an employee? And as a boss? I mean, do you have any insight that you think is really valuable in that front?

Dawn Hudson 51:57

You know, the advice I, I gave to my organization at Pepsi I give to myself, I give to my daughters constantly is, when you're dead, nobody's going to write on your tombstone, I wish I'd worked in our harder every day, they're going to write on your tombstone, I wish I had more time with friends and family. And that's not safe to leave work to spend time with friends and family, it's about making sure that you have the balance that works for you, there is no such thing as completely doing it all. And being a super woman, it's doing the right thing for you at the right point in your time and your career. So the thing I've learned, and I advise others to do is don't separate the two, you do not have a list of to dues for work, and a list of to dues for personal. It's just never that simple. When your daughter needs to go to the doctor, it's during the day. And now, you know, at night, you have to respond to the email from somebody in business. So it's integrate the two and make sure I always used to say to people, just tell your boss, you've got to go and take your parent needs to see a doctor and you want to go with them. You're not going to take the day off, I'm going to be gone for two or three hours. I want to make sure I'm not missing is it? Okay, integrate, and be honest. People respect that. And I think again, bring your whole self to work. If you can't be open and honest about what's going on, you don't feel comfortable. It's really important in your culture, that you have to be home for dinner every night and be part of making the dinner and you have to leave, you can say I'll get back online at nine check things but I've got to leave at 530 Just being able to do what's right for you, and integrate the personal priorities with the business priorities. I mean, I have a list of to do's when I add Pepsi in the NFL. And it would be like get with CBS to you know change how they talk about concussions. Make an appointment for Morgan to go to the doctor, you know, all the same list because they're all important to me personally.

David Novak 53:58

Last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders,

Dawn Hudson 54:03

people come out of college and more likely business school, and they say this is the job I want. So my advice, life changes too much. What you set out to do and what you will end up doing will be quite different and the world is changing so quickly. There are so many opportunities you don't know that will come ahead. So my advice to you is to not look far into the distance. look today at what you want your impact to be, and where you could have an impact. And spend your time focused on what you can accomplish in your current role. And if there's things that you think you can accomplish outside of your current role, you can you can participate in task forces, whatever, but don't try to think two and three steps ahead. Build yourself into the best leader you can be today and those new opportunities will present themselves.

David Novak 54:52

Don, you're a classic example who really walks the talk on what you just said. I mean, right what you've done with the book that you've just written I think is going to have a huge impact on so many people. And I have to tell you after reading the book, you know, it opened my eyes up to a lot of things. You know, I felt pretty good about myself overall as I read the book, but there are some things that I read that said, You know what, I've done that before I can handle that better. And I think what I loved about the book is that it's not just for women, it is for men too. And, you know, I encourage both women, as I mentioned, I gave the book to my daughter, and I'm glad I read it, because I picked up a few things that I hopefully will make me a better leader as I go forward. So thank you for taking the time to write the book. It's not easy to do. But you did it and takes courage. And congratulations,

Dawn Hudson 55:40

that's been fun talking to you today, thank you.

David Novak 55:52

God has so much energy, and I absolutely love her drive. And boy, she is using that drive to make sure the cultures we're building are getting better and better to your culture is your top priority. But we really hamper it when we allow either ourselves or the people on our teams to make assumptions about each other and let bias creepin even in ways that may appear very small. So this week, ask yourself, how does your culture need to evolve? Maybe you need to pick up Don's book and be more aware of those small language changes we can make to reduce gender bias. Or maybe you need to shift the conversation about remote and in in office work to be less about the details of all of it and more about how your culture is going to grow in this new workforce model. Carve out time this week to consider how your culture can evolve. I promise you, whatever time you invest in building a better culture will always give you a good return. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders keep evolving their culture. Coming up next on how leaders lead is our best of quarter one episode, where we take so much of the great wisdom from the last three months and highlight the most impactful takeaways for you like this one right here.

Carol Tomé 57:10

I think it depends on your philosophical approach to people. Are they an investment? Or are they an expense, I think they're an investment. And if you invest in people, they're gonna give you great customer service and deliver great results. And I've certainly seen that in spades here at UPS and I saw it at Home Depot to that doesn't mean that you shouldn't constantly look for opportunities to optimize your organization's and drive productivity through technology and other innovation. But if you invest in your people, they'll do amazing things for you.

David Novak 57:47

It's a huge bang for your time, so be sure to come back again next week. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in well I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you have become the best leader you can be

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