[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":18,"_19":20,"_21":-5,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":41,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_45":46,"_47":-5,"_48":49,"_50":51,"_52":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2060/no-matter-how-good-you-are-you-can-get-better","id",2060,"title","No matter how good you are, you can get better","subtitle","How to keep your ego in check","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.420\nI love the gratification just like anybody else, but in what I do, it can be\n\n2\n00:00:06.420 --> 00:00:07.000\npoison.\n\n3\n00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:11.000\nIt can really, it can be poison for me and it can hurt somebody.\n\n4\n00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:17.000\nAnd so I really try to make it more of a self-awareness thing.\n\n5\n00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:22.140\nI know what I'm good at and I know I'm always trying to get better and hone my\n\n6\n00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:23.000\nskills every day.\n\n7\n00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:28.600\nAnd so I don't mind if I do something because I think I'm good at it because I\n\n8\n00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:29.000\nthink I am.\n\n9\n00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:35.000\nBut I'm self-aware enough to know that problems can arise, challenges can arise\n\n10\n00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:35.000\n,\n\n11\n00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:39.000\nand that you better be prepared to handle it.\n\n12\n00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:44.300\nAnd if you're not growing, if you're not green and growing, then you're next to\n\n13\n00:00:44.300 --> 00:00:45.000\nrotten.\n\n14\n00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.000\nYou're ripe and next to rotten.\n\n15\n00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.000\nSo I don't ever want to be on the right side.\n\n16\n00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.000\nI want to be green and growing.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1320479,"end_time",1370909,"keywords","skills, professional development, personal development, self-awareness, continual improvement","slug","no-matter-how-good-you-are-you-can-get-better","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","HVWAPd01dDjuUqu4UE4l6pneAjAdwr1WBEbh00IAX2Y1c","mux_asset_id","hbbYD2RCNvLvdvx3DyukEaUvL3CDr01z3cyFFLiYwwiM","leader_id",82,"episode_id",231,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:48:41.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2060/no-matter-how-good-you-are-you-can-get-better","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":37,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_26":108,"_109":110,"_63":111,"_60":111,"_112":113,"_70":114,"_40":115,"_116":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_45":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_47":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_52":-5},"episode",{"_13":39,"_15":53,"_28":54,"_17":55,"_56":57,"_19":58,"_21":59,"_60":61,"_62":-5,"_63":61,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":-5,"_36":37,"_40":76,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_47":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_52":-5},"og_image_media","Why We Shouldn't Chase Passion","why-we-shouldnt-chase-passion","Listen as David and Neal discuss why chasing passion is a sure way to set yourself up for failure and burnout, and that there’s something better to chase.","summary","

Dr. Neal ElAttrache is a renowned American orthopedic surgeon best known as the Lead Physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers and Rams — as well as his patents and innovation in sports medicine. As a leader, Neal believes strongly in the three “A’s” — Affability, Availability, and Ability. Listen as David and Neal discuss why chasing passion is a sure way to set yourself up for failure and burnout, and that there’s something better to chase.

Show Notes

Intro
Finding joy in performing Tommy Johns surgery
Growing up to become a surgeon
Pursuing purpose over passion in your career
How to think critically and sensitively as a surgeon
What it's like serving as team physician for the Los Angeles Rams and Los Angeles Dodgers
Working with Baseball Hall of Famer Joe Torre, NFL coach Sean McVeigh, golfer Brooks Koepka, and the legendary Tom Brady
How to be mentored and mentor others
Lightning Round
Advice for aspiring leaders

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Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

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","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.560\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:09.360\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:12.000\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.720\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:15.720 --> 00:00:16.280\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.700\nsimple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader, and that's what\n\n7\n00:00:20.700 --> 00:00:21.800\nthis podcast\n\n8\n00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:23.400\nis all about.\n\n9\n00:00:23.400 --> 00:00:29.610\nNow today's guest is my good friend, Neil Elotronge, a world-renowned orthoped\n\n10\n00:00:29.610 --> 00:00:30.960\nic surgeon who works\n\n11\n00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:36.600\nwith the top athletes in the world, athletes like Tom Brady and Brooks Kepka.\n\n12\n00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.060\nNow I'm going to say something here that you might think makes me a little\n\n13\n00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:40.600\ncrazy, it's\n\n14\n00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.440\na little provocative, but stick with me.\n\n15\n00:00:44.440 --> 00:00:49.040\nAs a leader, you shouldn't chase passion.\n\n16\n00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:51.560\nNow I know what you're thinking out there.\n\n17\n00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.760\nDavid, you've lost your mind.\n\n18\n00:00:54.760 --> 00:00:56.480\nEverybody should be passionate.\n\n19\n00:00:56.480 --> 00:01:02.080\nBut I mean it, if what drives you is simply passion, you are setting yourself\n\n20\n00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:03.960\nup for burnout,\n\n21\n00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:08.040\nwhich is the absolute worst place you should be as a leader.\n\n22\n00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:13.840\nAnd so while I don't want you to chase passion, I do have another idea for you.\n\n23\n00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:17.280\nI want you to chase purpose instead.\n\n24\n00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:22.950\nThe great leaders I know understand why they do what they do, and I'll tell you\n\n25\n00:01:22.950 --> 00:01:23.840\n, purpose\n\n26\n00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:27.360\nwill sustain you a lot more than passion.\n\n27\n00:01:27.360 --> 00:01:32.130\nYou know, we've all fallen in love with something one day and had that go away\n\n28\n00:01:32.130 --> 00:01:33.080\nthe next, but\n\n29\n00:01:33.080 --> 00:01:35.840\npurpose sustains what you do.\n\n30\n00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:40.670\nIn my interview with Neil, he shares several stories in how this plays out in\n\n31\n00:01:40.670 --> 00:01:41.400\nhis life,\n\n32\n00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.640\nhis career, and in the operating room.\n\n33\n00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:48.800\nAnd I can't think of a better leader for you to learn from on this critically\n\n34\n00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:49.520\nimportant\n\n35\n00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:50.880\ninsight.\n\n36\n00:01:50.880 --> 00:01:51.880\nSo here we go.\n\n37\n00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:57.040\nWe cover so much in this episode, and I can't wait for you to listen in.\n\n38\n00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.600\nHere's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours.\n\n39\n00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:06.880\nIt's my conversation with Dr. Neil Elitraz.\n\n40\n00:02:06.880 --> 00:02:14.520\nNeil, I want to start out by just taking a moment to thank you for my own time.\n\n41\n00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:16.240\nMy own physical well-being.\n\n42\n00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:19.520\nYou know, a couple of years ago, I had a killy surgery.\n\n43\n00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.680\nI now have a plate and four screws in the back of my heel.\n\n44\n00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:27.620\nAnd I understand that you have the patent on the technology that made that\n\n45\n00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:28.280\noperation\n\n46\n00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:29.280\nsuccessful.\n\n47\n00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.960\nI can now walk 36 holes in golf with no pain.\n\n48\n00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:32.960\nHow about that?\n\n49\n00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:33.960\nThank you very much.\n\n50\n00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:34.960\nAwesome.\n\n51\n00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:35.960\nThat is great.\n\n52\n00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:38.760\nBy the way, you've never agreed to be my partner in any of these golf\n\n53\n00:02:38.760 --> 00:02:39.560\ntournaments.\n\n54\n00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.160\nWith the few strokes you're getting, I think we could do really well.\n\n55\n00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:45.560\nI'd love to do that someday.\n\n56\n00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:51.190\nYou absolutely light up like a candle when I talked about my success with my\n\n57\n00:02:51.190 --> 00:02:52.320\noperation.\n\n58\n00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:55.720\nYou seem to get so much joy from what you do.\n\n59\n00:02:55.720 --> 00:03:00.120\nI am so fortunate to have found maybe the one thing in the world that I really\n\n60\n00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:00.640\nfeel like\n\n61\n00:03:00.640 --> 00:03:02.400\nI'm any good at.\n\n62\n00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.950\nAnd it gives me a ton of joy to be able to do it and to hear the stories like\n\n63\n00:03:07.950 --> 00:03:08.720\nyours.\n\n64\n00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:12.780\nYou mentioned some of the instruments that I had developed and I get a real\n\n65\n00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:13.320\nkick out\n\n66\n00:03:13.320 --> 00:03:20.090\nof hearing people that have benefited from it in ways that I had never really\n\n67\n00:03:20.090 --> 00:03:20.600\nconceived\n\n68\n00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:26.240\nof whenever I was going through the development of that.\n\n69\n00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.470\nWhen I was developing any of the things that I've done, any of my patents or\n\n70\n00:03:30.470 --> 00:03:31.200\nintellectual\n\n71\n00:03:31.200 --> 00:03:36.100\nproperty, it was just to solve problems that I was facing, challenges I was\n\n72\n00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:36.920\nfacing in my\n\n73\n00:03:36.920 --> 00:03:39.160\nown practice or in the operating room.\n\n74\n00:03:39.160 --> 00:03:45.250\nAnd I don't know that I was prescient enough or smart enough to realize all the\n\n75\n00:03:45.250 --> 00:03:46.080\nuses that\n\n76\n00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:50.680\nthese things could be put into practice for.\n\n77\n00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:55.260\nAnd so I'm glad that he hears stories like yours every now and then to say that\n\n78\n00:03:55.260 --> 00:03:55.800\nyou've\n\n79\n00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:56.800\nbenefited from it.\n\n80\n00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:57.800\nYeah, absolutely.\n\n81\n00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:00.240\nHow many patents do you have, Neil?\n\n82\n00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.680\nAnd how do you go about innovating?\n\n83\n00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:12.290\nI have six that are the main ones and they're iterations on a theme with regard\n\n84\n00:04:12.290 --> 00:04:13.440\nto using\n\n85\n00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:20.650\nimplants in bone that fix suture where you need to fix it to repair tissue and\n\n86\n00:04:20.650 --> 00:04:22.160\nalso to\n\n87\n00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.340\ndo it in a way that doesn't require a lot of extra suture, not tying things\n\n88\n00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:28.280\nlike that.\n\n89\n00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:33.110\nSo there are variations on the same theme with regard to minimizing exposure,\n\n90\n00:04:33.110 --> 00:04:33.960\nminimizing\n\n91\n00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:38.040\nsurgical morbidity and getting really strong tissue repair.\n\n92\n00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:42.740\nYou know, Neil, the last time we talked, you mentioned to me that you were\n\n93\n00:04:42.740 --> 00:04:43.520\ngoing to have\n\n94\n00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:49.160\nseven Tommy John surgeries scheduled in the upcoming week.\n\n95\n00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.160\nSomething that's never been done before.\n\n96\n00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:55.540\nFor our listeners out there, what's Tommy John surgery and can you tell us how\n\n97\n00:04:55.540 --> 00:04:55.920\nthat\n\n98\n00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.880\nweek went?\n\n99\n00:04:58.880 --> 00:05:06.270\nTommy John surgery is the operation to fix the ligament on the inside of the\n\n100\n00:05:06.270 --> 00:05:07.640\nelbow that\n\n101\n00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:11.040\nbreaks down in pitchers.\n\n102\n00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:17.960\nAnd also it happens in other endeavors like javelin throwers in track and field\n\n103\n00:05:17.960 --> 00:05:18.160\n.\n\n104\n00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:22.030\nAnd we found out over the years that there's a form of handball played in\n\n105\n00:05:22.030 --> 00:05:22.840\nEurope where\n\n106\n00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:24.280\nthey tear this ligament too.\n\n107\n00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:30.330\nBut it really is the stabilizing ligament that is necessary when a person is\n\n108\n00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:31.560\naccelerating\n\n109\n00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.840\ntheir arm in a throwing type position.\n\n110\n00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:42.490\nAnd my senior partner who is no longer with us maybe looking down from the\n\n111\n00:05:42.490 --> 00:05:43.760\nheavens on\n\n112\n00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:48.660\neverything that I'm doing anyway, that he was the one to develop this operation\n\n113\n00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:49.280\nand true\n\n114\n00:05:49.280 --> 00:05:54.340\nto form with his own humility, he named it after the patient that he did it on\n\n115\n00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:54.920\nrather\n\n116\n00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.240\nthan getting it named after himself.\n\n117\n00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:02.600\nSo Frank Job is the great surgeon that developed the operation and the first\n\n118\n00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:03.480\nperson he did\n\n119\n00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:07.200\nit on was a pitcher named Tommy John.\n\n120\n00:06:07.200 --> 00:06:12.250\nAnd Tommy John went on to win more games after the operation than he did before\n\n121\n00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:13.360\nthe operation.\n\n122\n00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:16.160\nHe was a great Dodger player and then with the Yankees.\n\n123\n00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.670\nAnd so that procedure is one of the most successful procedures that we do in\n\n124\n00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:21.840\nsports medicine with\n\n125\n00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:25.080\nregard to getting players that have been injured back to play.\n\n126\n00:06:25.080 --> 00:06:31.810\nIf you look at all the things we do, that procedure probably has the best track\n\n127\n00:06:31.810 --> 00:06:32.840\nrecord.\n\n128\n00:06:32.840 --> 00:06:35.600\nSo you did seven of these in one week.\n\n129\n00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:38.600\nHow is everybody doing after that surgery?\n\n130\n00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:44.040\nWell, we track our patients pretty carefully and so far those were recent\n\n131\n00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:45.320\nwithin the past\n\n132\n00:06:45.320 --> 00:06:49.320\nseveral months and they're all doing fine at this point.\n\n133\n00:06:49.320 --> 00:06:53.520\nIt's when they get back to the thing that got them here in the first place.\n\n134\n00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:58.150\nWhen they get back in the war out there on the mound, that's when we really pay\n\n135\n00:06:58.150 --> 00:06:58.900\nattention\n\n136\n00:06:58.900 --> 00:07:04.000\nto see how they're doing, how they're performing, but so far so good.\n\n137\n00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:05.520\nI was thinking about that.\n\n138\n00:07:05.520 --> 00:07:12.560\nSeven surgeries with people who have their relying on their career that rely on\n\n139\n00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:13.640\nyou to\n\n140\n00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:16.400\nget them back on the mound.\n\n141\n00:07:16.400 --> 00:07:20.040\nYou've got to feel all kinds of pressure on that.\n\n142\n00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:25.880\nDo you have a process that you use for getting yourself up for each surgery?\n\n143\n00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:27.880\nI stay in my lane.\n\n144\n00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:36.200\nI do what I really feel that I'm proficient at and that I'm good at.\n\n145\n00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:41.340\nThere's going to be some things that I see occasionally that are not that\n\n146\n00:07:41.340 --> 00:07:41.960\ncommon and no\n\n147\n00:07:41.960 --> 00:07:46.780\none has a lot of surgical experience with some things because they're rather\n\n148\n00:07:46.780 --> 00:07:47.080\nrare.\n\n149\n00:07:47.080 --> 00:07:53.710\nI'm not beyond going and practicing and technique or taking some time to go\n\n150\n00:07:53.710 --> 00:07:55.400\ndown to the lab\n\n151\n00:07:55.400 --> 00:08:01.120\nand working on some things if this is something that's unusual or rare.\n\n152\n00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:07.060\nI would say that the answer to your question is I am very, very prepared every\n\n153\n00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:07.800\ntime I go\n\n154\n00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:09.320\ninto the operating room.\n\n155\n00:08:09.320 --> 00:08:14.400\nI've envisioned exactly what the injury is.\n\n156\n00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:16.920\nIt's tattooed in my brain, what I'm going to see.\n\n157\n00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.080\nI already anticipate all the eventualities.\n\n158\n00:08:20.080 --> 00:08:23.170\nYou can't predict everything that's going to happen in an operating room, but\n\n159\n00:08:23.170 --> 00:08:23.600\nwhat you\n\n160\n00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:29.000\ncan do is you can narrow it down to the things that could happen.\n\n161\n00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:34.880\nYou don't want to be doing a lot of deliberating in the OR, in surgery.\n\n162\n00:08:34.880 --> 00:08:38.200\nThat's not a good place for a surgeon to be.\n\n163\n00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:44.080\nIt's like a commander in a battle being indecisive and nothing good happens\n\n164\n00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:45.200\nwith that.\n\n165\n00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.260\nYou have to anticipate the things that can happen, the things you can see, and\n\n166\n00:08:49.260 --> 00:08:49.800\nimmediately\n\n167\n00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:53.800\nthat drives you to a solution that you've already worked out in your head.\n\n168\n00:08:53.800 --> 00:08:56.400\nI'm very prepared.\n\n169\n00:08:56.400 --> 00:08:58.760\nI imagine everything that I could see.\n\n170\n00:08:58.760 --> 00:09:05.300\nI already imagined the anatomy in my brain before I make an incision in the\n\n171\n00:09:05.300 --> 00:09:06.160\nskin.\n\n172\n00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:09.200\nThat's why I feel very, very comfortable when I'm in there.\n\n173\n00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:10.200\nAbsolutely.\n\n174\n00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:12.200\nIt makes so much sense.\n\n175\n00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.640\nNow I'd like to just go back to the beginning.\n\n176\n00:09:15.640 --> 00:09:19.830\nTell us a story about your upbringing that impacted the kind of leader that you\n\n177\n00:09:19.830 --> 00:09:20.720\n've become.\n\n178\n00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.320\nI was raised in a caregiver's home.\n\n179\n00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:33.430\nMy father was a surgeon, and his living was in the rural areas of Western\n\n180\n00:09:33.430 --> 00:09:35.480\nPennsylvania.\n\n181\n00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.400\nThat's how I grew up.\n\n182\n00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:42.280\nI grew up in a coal mining town of hardworking people.\n\n183\n00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:45.880\nI just got a chance to observe.\n\n184\n00:09:45.880 --> 00:09:49.950\nMaybe I didn't realize what the impact it was having on me, but I saw what it\n\n185\n00:09:49.950 --> 00:09:50.360\nmeant\n\n186\n00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:51.920\nto take care of others.\n\n187\n00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:58.240\nMy mother started the Meals on Wheels program there in that little town.\n\n188\n00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:02.320\nThat was very important because people as they were aging, they really couldn't\n\n189\n00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:02.560\nget\n\n190\n00:10:02.560 --> 00:10:03.560\naround.\n\n191\n00:10:03.560 --> 00:10:09.320\nIt was a long way to go to the grocery store and things like that.\n\n192\n00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:15.550\nI saw the way that you gained a lot personally by living a life of that kind of\n\n193\n00:10:15.550 --> 00:10:16.640\nservice.\n\n194\n00:10:16.640 --> 00:10:18.160\nI was drawn to that.\n\n195\n00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:20.760\nI'm not a jack of all trades.\n\n196\n00:10:20.760 --> 00:10:23.240\nI was an okay high school athlete.\n\n197\n00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.720\nI nowhere near as good as I thought I was.\n\n198\n00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.300\nMy mother figured that out quickly and encouraged me to go to a school that I\n\n199\n00:10:29.300 --> 00:10:30.080\nwouldn't have\n\n200\n00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:36.320\nany delusions that I was good enough to play college football or anything.\n\n201\n00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:40.560\nI went on to Notre Dame.\n\n202\n00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:43.690\nFrom there, I went to medical school at the University of Pittsburgh because I\n\n203\n00:10:43.690 --> 00:10:44.080\nwanted\n\n204\n00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:47.860\nto be a surgeon and all the people that wanted to be surgeons at that time\n\n205\n00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:49.160\nseemed to be gravitating\n\n206\n00:10:49.160 --> 00:10:50.160\nthere.\n\n207\n00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:54.240\nWhen you're young in your 20s and you've found the thing that you feel like you\n\n208\n00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:54.840\nwere meant\n\n209\n00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:00.970\nto do and the rewards were amazing because you felt like you were on the top of\n\n210\n00:11:00.970 --> 00:11:01.280\nthe\n\n211\n00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:06.840\nworld like you were an astronaut that was walking on the moon.\n\n212\n00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:12.340\nYou are sort of blind to some of the realities of life with regard to your\n\n213\n00:11:12.340 --> 00:11:13.360\nprofession.\n\n214\n00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.890\nI was drawn to orthopedic surgery where you had otherwise generally healthy\n\n215\n00:11:18.890 --> 00:11:19.840\npeople came\n\n216\n00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:25.760\nand broke and you fixed them and they got back to doing what they loved to do.\n\n217\n00:11:25.760 --> 00:11:28.200\nI became an orthopedic surgeon.\n\n218\n00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:32.280\nOrthopedic surgery has given me a real purpose and reward in life that I don't\n\n219\n00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:32.880\nknow that\n\n220\n00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:35.920\nI could have ever gotten with anything else.\n\n221\n00:11:35.920 --> 00:11:40.430\nYou mentioned the joy you get from your profession and you just mentioned the\n\n222\n00:11:40.430 --> 00:11:42.360\nword purpose.\n\n223\n00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:47.400\nWhat do you think is driven you most to your path for excellence?\n\n224\n00:11:47.400 --> 00:11:50.360\nPassion that you have or the purpose that you have?\n\n225\n00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.720\nPurpose for sure.\n\n226\n00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:02.530\nI love it when I see people come in and they have a ton of passion for what\n\n227\n00:12:02.530 --> 00:12:03.960\nthey're doing.\n\n228\n00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:07.860\nSome of these young guys that are coming in, young guys and ladies now that are\n\n229\n00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:08.280\ncoming\n\n230\n00:12:08.280 --> 00:12:15.790\nin and really drawn to orthopedics and they are very passionate but they have\n\n231\n00:12:15.790 --> 00:12:16.960\nto realize\n\n232\n00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:23.000\nlike I realized after the fact that passion is about you.\n\n233\n00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:28.800\nIt's about your response to things and the passion can be both good and bad.\n\n234\n00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:38.040\nPassion is shaded by your needs at the time, what kind of gratification you're\n\n235\n00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:39.080\ngetting\n\n236\n00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:44.830\nbut your purpose is really about what you are meant to do as far as achieving a\n\n237\n00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:45.200\ngoal\n\n238\n00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.360\nin life.\n\n239\n00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:49.440\nPassion will wax and wane.\n\n240\n00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:53.280\nYou'll fall in love and out of love with things.\n\n241\n00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:58.220\nBut your purpose if you really consider what was I really meant to do to be\n\n242\n00:12:58.220 --> 00:12:59.080\nable to do the\n\n243\n00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:03.280\nbest for me and the world around me, that's sustainable.\n\n244\n00:13:03.280 --> 00:13:07.970\nIf you really see it clearly and come to grips with that and if you're lucky\n\n245\n00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:10.280\nenough to really\n\n246\n00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:16.070\nlook at it that way, that will last a lifetime and that will drive you through\n\n247\n00:13:16.070 --> 00:13:16.920\nthe tough\n\n248\n00:13:16.920 --> 00:13:18.200\nmoments.\n\n249\n00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.280\nSo I'm driven by purpose.\n\n250\n00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:23.320\nPassion, it's great.\n\n251\n00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:27.750\nIt's a great exhilarating feeling now and then but the big things in my life\n\n252\n00:13:27.750 --> 00:13:28.520\nare driven\n\n253\n00:13:28.520 --> 00:13:29.520\nby purpose.\n\n254\n00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:36.400\nDr. when you were coming up in the orthopedic world, did you have a pivotal\n\n255\n00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:37.240\nmoment that\n\n256\n00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:40.240\nreally changed the trajectory of your career?\n\n257\n00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.400\nThose moments happened to me all the time and still do.\n\n258\n00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:48.970\nI think that probably the biggest false thing that I could ever say is that I'm\n\n259\n00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:49.680\nsomehow\n\n260\n00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:56.570\na self-made man and I think that those pivotal moments happened every single\n\n261\n00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:57.840\ntime somebody\n\n262\n00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:03.540\ncame into my life that for whatever reason took an interest in me or what I was\n\n263\n00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:04.120\ndoing\n\n264\n00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:10.190\nand I became better for every one of those encounters and so I could remember\n\n265\n00:14:10.190 --> 00:14:11.160\nso clearly\n\n266\n00:14:11.160 --> 00:14:17.040\nall those times when somebody came along and pushed me forward, did whatever\n\n267\n00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:17.800\nthey needed\n\n268\n00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:23.890\nto do or added whatever they need, bigger small to make me better for having\n\n269\n00:14:23.890 --> 00:14:24.640\nhad that\n\n270\n00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:25.560\nhappened to me.\n\n271\n00:14:25.560 --> 00:14:32.000\nSo I've always remembered that and I try to pay that back.\n\n272\n00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:37.040\nI try to, anytime that I come into contact with somebody that might be on the\n\n273\n00:14:37.040 --> 00:14:37.560\npath to\n\n274\n00:14:37.560 --> 00:14:41.720\ntheir life's work, I try to add something to it if I can.\n\n275\n00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:49.630\nSo it's happened to me a lot of times David and some big, some little but it's\n\n276\n00:14:49.630 --> 00:14:50.720\nhappened\n\n277\n00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.800\nto me numerous times.\n\n278\n00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:58.400\nYou've talked about heightened sensitivity as a critical asset for a surgeon.\n\n279\n00:14:58.400 --> 00:14:59.400\nExplain.\n\n280\n00:14:59.400 --> 00:15:07.600\nWell, the sensitivity is, it's all encompassing.\n\n281\n00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:15.290\nIf you're not in the moment and really aware of the interaction and observant\n\n282\n00:15:15.290 --> 00:15:16.080\nsort of\n\n283\n00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:21.980\nas a second nature of people you're taking care of, then you're not really\n\n284\n00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:22.920\ngetting to\n\n285\n00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:26.160\n100% of what you need to be doing.\n\n286\n00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:33.240\nSo the relationship I have with the people I take care of is, I would say that\n\n287\n00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:34.000\nthat's\n\n288\n00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.270\nprobably the most intimate relationship that one human being can have with\n\n289\n00:15:39.270 --> 00:15:39.880\nanother.\n\n290\n00:15:39.880 --> 00:15:46.110\nI've heard you actually say that surgeons can create a higher level of intimacy\n\n291\n00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:46.840\nfor human\n\n292\n00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.320\nbeings than any other profession, including the clergy.\n\n293\n00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.120\nI agree.\n\n294\n00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:58.520\nAnd I consider myself spiritual and I was raised in that kind of a household.\n\n295\n00:15:58.520 --> 00:16:04.220\nSo I'm not running down the clergy by any means, but when I look at the\n\n296\n00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:05.480\nrelationship\n\n297\n00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:13.570\nthat happens between two human beings, when one person is saying, I trust you\n\n298\n00:16:13.570 --> 00:16:14.560\nenough to\n\n299\n00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:22.770\nput my body, my health, or that of my loved one in your hands, if that doesn't\n\n300\n00:16:22.770 --> 00:16:23.640\nstrike\n\n301\n00:16:23.640 --> 00:16:32.960\nbudding physicians out there right between the eyes as this divine purpose,\n\n302\n00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:34.360\nthen they're\n\n303\n00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:37.760\nmissing the most beautiful thing that I experience.\n\n304\n00:16:37.760 --> 00:16:43.480\nYou know, you hear and see a lot of doctors, you know, where they try to keep\n\n305\n00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:44.520\nan emotional\n\n306\n00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:48.280\ndistance from their patients.\n\n307\n00:16:48.280 --> 00:16:52.280\nHow do you look at the relationship that you have with the patient?\n\n308\n00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:54.440\nSo can you get too close?\n\n309\n00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:59.040\nOr, you know, I know you operate on a lot of friends, for example.\n\n310\n00:16:59.040 --> 00:17:09.690\nYeah, I think that, you know, if the closeness clouds your judgment, I think it\n\n311\n00:17:09.690 --> 00:17:10.920\n's a problem.\n\n312\n00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:17.590\nAnd so there's a lot of things that happen in what I do on a weekly basis that\n\n313\n00:17:17.590 --> 00:17:18.240\nif I worried\n\n314\n00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:23.410\nabout the media, the press, the agent, the team, you know, all of these other\n\n315\n00:17:23.410 --> 00:17:24.000\nthings\n\n316\n00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:30.000\nbecause what would be said or what would be, you know, it could definitely\n\n317\n00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:30.920\ncloud your\n\n318\n00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:32.120\ncloud your judgment.\n\n319\n00:17:32.120 --> 00:17:36.880\nAnd I think the same goes if you're taking care of somebody that's dear to you.\n\n320\n00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:42.470\nIf you're, if the, that closeness is going to cloud your judgment on doing what\n\n321\n00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:43.120\n's best,\n\n322\n00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:45.680\ndoing your job, then it can be a problem.\n\n323\n00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.880\nI find, I don't think that it's an issue at all.\n\n324\n00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:55.470\nIf I had a friend or a relative that I thought that I could do something as\n\n325\n00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:56.720\nwell or better\n\n326\n00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:06.660\nthan what else they could get for me to do that, I'll be quite frank about that\n\n327\n00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:06.800\n.\n\n328\n00:18:06.800 --> 00:18:13.400\nUnless if I, unless if I found myself in the situation where my relationship,\n\n329\n00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:14.400\nmy feelings\n\n330\n00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:21.160\nwould cloud somehow my judgment and therefore be a detriment to them.\n\n331\n00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.760\nYeah, that makes sense.\n\n332\n00:18:22.760 --> 00:18:27.110\nAnd, you know, I understand you are the team position for the Los Angeles\n\n333\n00:18:27.110 --> 00:18:27.960\nDodgers and the\n\n334\n00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.160\nLos Angeles Rams.\n\n335\n00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:35.880\nWhat's that like and what's the key to success in a role like that?\n\n336\n00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.880\nVery, very simple, very simple ingredient.\n\n337\n00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.480\nYou know, the patient comes first.\n\n338\n00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.520\nSo every one of these players is, I consider a patient.\n\n339\n00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:49.800\nAnd, and so if that comes first, their well-being comes first, everything else\n\n340\n00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:50.440\ntakes care of\n\n341\n00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.440\nitself.\n\n342\n00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:55.780\nAnd, you know, we can talk a little bit about the history of sports and how\n\n343\n00:18:55.780 --> 00:18:56.840\nthat has aligned\n\n344\n00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:59.840\nincentives as, as time has gone on.\n\n345\n00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:03.350\nThere's more and more money in, in, in these sports and things, but it's made,\n\n346\n00:19:03.350 --> 00:19:04.000\nmade things\n\n347\n00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.690\nactually a lot easier, not more difficult because everybody's incentives are\n\n348\n00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:08.360\naligned.\n\n349\n00:19:08.360 --> 00:19:14.350\nBut if, if you consider the well-being of that, of that player patient and all\n\n350\n00:19:14.350 --> 00:19:14.560\nthat\n\n351\n00:19:14.560 --> 00:19:19.120\nreally matters at that point is that relationship between me and that player\n\n352\n00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:20.240\npatient, everything\n\n353\n00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.480\nelse flows from there.\n\n354\n00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.430\nAnd aside from that, then it's the things that, that make any executive, you\n\n355\n00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:26.880\nknow, a\n\n356\n00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.160\ngood executive.\n\n357\n00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.520\nIt's, it's availability, affability and ability.\n\n358\n00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:37.210\nAnd the three A's, you know, that's, that's, you know, if I wasn't available or\n\n359\n00:19:37.210 --> 00:19:37.720\nif I wasn't\n\n360\n00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:43.400\nable or if people hated me, you know, how effective would I be?\n\n361\n00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:48.220\nSo, so, you know, the, the same ingredients that makes any, any executive good,\n\n362\n00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:49.160\nbut, but\n\n363\n00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.510\nby and large, you know, I can, I can eliminate all of the conflicts of interest\n\n364\n00:19:52.510 --> 00:19:52.920\nif I just\n\n365\n00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.680\nkeep the, the player patient first.\n\n366\n00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.520\nWell, from now on, I'm going to refer to you as the AAA leader.\n\n367\n00:19:58.520 --> 00:20:00.080\nThank you.\n\n368\n00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:03.960\nYou know, you work with Hall of Fame or Joe Tory.\n\n369\n00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.200\nWhat did you learn about leadership watching him manage the Dodgers?\n\n370\n00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.520\nHe was a very player-centric person.\n\n371\n00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:15.840\nAnd what he did, you know, if you look at the people that he managed, and there\n\n372\n00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:16.040\n's a\n\n373\n00:20:16.040 --> 00:20:21.300\nfew other coaches that come to mind, but Joe is at, at the top of the heap when\n\n374\n00:20:21.300 --> 00:20:21.800\nit comes\n\n375\n00:20:21.800 --> 00:20:22.800\nto this.\n\n376\n00:20:22.800 --> 00:20:26.120\nMaybe Pat Riley was another one that could do this.\n\n377\n00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:31.980\nThey took some of the biggest sort of impact players, biggest egos, biggest\n\n378\n00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:32.600\npeople in\n\n379\n00:20:32.600 --> 00:20:36.560\ntheir sport and put them together in a locker room.\n\n380\n00:20:36.560 --> 00:20:41.480\nAnd his motto was not check your ego at the door at all.\n\n381\n00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.320\nQuite frankly, it was the opposite.\n\n382\n00:20:43.320 --> 00:20:46.280\nIt was, listen, you, you're special.\n\n383\n00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:48.280\nYou're here because you're special.\n\n384\n00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:51.940\nBring that, bring that on in, on in here, but do it in a way that makes the\n\n385\n00:20:51.940 --> 00:20:52.520\nother guys\n\n386\n00:20:52.520 --> 00:20:53.520\nbetter.\n\n387\n00:20:53.520 --> 00:21:00.850\nAnd I learned a lot by watching him manage the, you know, the big egos that he\n\n388\n00:21:00.850 --> 00:21:03.000\nwas managing.\n\n389\n00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:08.180\nAnd I think that, you know, he was so successful as a manager because he got\n\n390\n00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:09.240\nthe best out of\n\n391\n00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:16.980\neach one of these big-time players and did it in a way that he completely\n\n392\n00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:17.800\nallowed them\n\n393\n00:21:17.800 --> 00:21:18.800\nto be them.\n\n394\n00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:20.640\nHe allowed Jeter to be Jeter.\n\n395\n00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.760\nHe allowed, you know, a rod to be him.\n\n396\n00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:29.680\nThe only rule he had was bring it on in here, but make the guy next to you\n\n397\n00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:30.760\nbetter.\n\n398\n00:21:30.760 --> 00:21:35.580\nAnd I think that that's a great way if you're taking care of people, managing\n\n399\n00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:36.640\npeople and,\n\n400\n00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:41.040\nyou know, working with a, with a real, with a team of, of any kind of, in any\n\n401\n00:21:41.040 --> 00:21:42.600\nkind of job,\n\n402\n00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:44.520\nthat's a great way to do it.\n\n403\n00:21:44.520 --> 00:21:48.800\nYou know, speaking of egos, you know, surgeons are known to have huge egos, you\n\n404\n00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:49.600\nknow, because\n\n405\n00:21:49.600 --> 00:21:53.360\nyou have to have that confidence to be able to go in and get it done.\n\n406\n00:21:53.360 --> 00:22:00.640\nAnd, you know, how do you manage and lead the, the ego part of your job?\n\n407\n00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:05.470\nI love the gratification just like anybody else, but, but I, I, in what I do,\n\n408\n00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:05.920\nit can\n\n409\n00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.440\nbe poison.\n\n410\n00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:10.640\nIt can really, it can be poison for me and it can hurt somebody.\n\n411\n00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:16.740\nAnd so I, I really try to make it more of a self-awareness thing, you know, I\n\n412\n00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:17.440\nknow what\n\n413\n00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:22.050\nI'm good at, and I know I'm always trying to get better and hone my skills\n\n414\n00:22:22.050 --> 00:22:22.880\nevery day.\n\n415\n00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.830\nAnd so, you know, I, I don't mind if I do something because I think I'm good at\n\n416\n00:22:27.830 --> 00:22:28.400\nit because\n\n417\n00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.840\nI think I am.\n\n418\n00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:36.170\nBut I'm self-aware enough to know that problems can arise, challenges can arise\n\n419\n00:22:36.170 --> 00:22:37.260\nand that you\n\n420\n00:22:37.260 --> 00:22:39.400\nbetter be prepared to handle it.\n\n421\n00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:43.520\nAnd if you're not growing, you know, if you're not green and growing, then,\n\n422\n00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:44.640\nthen you're\n\n423\n00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.000\nnext to rotten, you know, you're, you're ripe and next to hot and so I don't\n\n424\n00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:48.400\never want\n\n425\n00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.400\nto be on the ripe side.\n\n426\n00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:51.600\nI want to be green and growing.\n\n427\n00:22:51.600 --> 00:22:52.600\nThat's good.\n\n428\n00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:56.860\nYou know, you've also worked for the youngest coach in the NFL, Sean, Sean McV\n\n429\n00:22:56.860 --> 00:22:57.280\nay.\n\n430\n00:22:57.280 --> 00:23:00.520\nWhat did you learn from him that you try to apply in your world?\n\n431\n00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:05.120\nSean makes everything his responsibility.\n\n432\n00:23:05.120 --> 00:23:11.010\nYou know, he has what we call agency, you know, he thinks that everything that\n\n433\n00:23:11.010 --> 00:23:11.480\noccurs\n\n434\n00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:21.900\nwithin those walls at the LA Rams is at least impacted or can be impacted by\n\n435\n00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:22.680\nhim and his\n\n436\n00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.520\nwork and what he does.\n\n437\n00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:31.120\nSo he takes responsibility for pretty much everything that happens there.\n\n438\n00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:35.410\nSometimes that's a very difficult way to live because, you know, you end up,\n\n439\n00:23:35.410 --> 00:23:35.680\nyou end\n\n440\n00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.960\nup really, you know, putting it on yourself whenever things that are a little\n\n441\n00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:40.440\nbit out\n\n442\n00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.400\nof your control, you know, occur.\n\n443\n00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:45.600\nAnd so that can be a hard way to live.\n\n444\n00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:51.630\nHowever, I don't think that you can succeed in a, in a big endeavor like that\n\n445\n00:23:51.630 --> 00:23:52.440\nif you, or\n\n446\n00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:58.390\neven personally in your own personal life, if you consider basically everything\n\n447\n00:23:58.390 --> 00:23:58.880\nas fate\n\n448\n00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:03.470\nor somebody else's responsibility or, you know, I didn't succeed because this\n\n449\n00:24:03.470 --> 00:24:04.040\nand this\n\n450\n00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:07.320\nand this happened that were out of my control.\n\n451\n00:24:07.320 --> 00:24:14.640\nSean is, for his young, young years is really remarkable at basically saying,\n\n452\n00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.880\nyou know what,\n\n453\n00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:16.880\nthis is my job.\n\n454\n00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.640\nI'm going to study my tail off.\n\n455\n00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:20.480\nI'm going to be as good at this as I can be.\n\n456\n00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:26.560\nAnd I'm in it's my responsibility to make this thing successful.\n\n457\n00:24:26.560 --> 00:24:30.680\nAnd I just, I really admire this young guy.\n\n458\n00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:31.680\nYeah, absolutely.\n\n459\n00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:33.080\nYou know, I think that makes so much sense.\n\n460\n00:24:33.080 --> 00:24:36.160\nHe's clearly moved up the accountability ladder for sure.\n\n461\n00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.990\nYou know, you know, you, you recently did knee surgeries with Tom Brady and\n\n462\n00:24:40.990 --> 00:24:42.840\nBrooks Kepka.\n\n463\n00:24:42.840 --> 00:24:45.000\nDoing the surgery is one thing.\n\n464\n00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.520\nHow do you help your patients through the recovery process?\n\n465\n00:24:48.520 --> 00:24:53.360\nYeah, I think that I'm a very positive optimistic person.\n\n466\n00:24:53.360 --> 00:24:55.000\nI don't think falsely so.\n\n467\n00:24:55.000 --> 00:25:02.900\nI, I think that, you know, I see what's possible and I, I sort of exude that\n\n468\n00:25:02.900 --> 00:25:04.200\nand I feed off\n\n469\n00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.560\nof other positive personalities.\n\n470\n00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:11.930\nYou've hit on two people that I don't think there's anybody I've ever\n\n471\n00:25:11.930 --> 00:25:13.360\nencountered.\n\n472\n00:25:13.360 --> 00:25:18.820\nMaybe the, the late Kobe Bryant maybe, but, but Tom Brady is a, is a very, very\n\n473\n00:25:18.820 --> 00:25:19.480\nspecial\n\n474\n00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:22.120\nguy, as you know, I think you know him a bit.\n\n475\n00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:27.360\nAnd, and so his positive can do attitude.\n\n476\n00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:31.840\nIt's, it's well founded in reality.\n\n477\n00:25:31.840 --> 00:25:36.530\nBut you know, there's a, that you, you, you feed, I feed off of that as a, as a\n\n478\n00:25:36.530 --> 00:25:37.400\nphysician.\n\n479\n00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:42.220\nAnd so, and, and I think that they, my, my patients can tell that from the\n\n480\n00:25:42.220 --> 00:25:43.040\ndoorway when\n\n481\n00:25:43.040 --> 00:25:48.270\nyou walk in these, especially these athletes, these are real sort of alpha\n\n482\n00:25:48.270 --> 00:25:49.320\nanimals, you\n\n483\n00:25:49.320 --> 00:25:52.000\nknow, they, they can sense a lot of things.\n\n484\n00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.910\nAnd, and if you come in and you're honest and they, they, they trust you and\n\n485\n00:25:56.910 --> 00:25:57.760\nbelieve what\n\n486\n00:25:57.760 --> 00:26:05.040\nyou're saying and you exude this positivity in a, in a realistic way.\n\n487\n00:26:05.040 --> 00:26:11.000\nI think that that's a, that is a big recipe for, for success.\n\n488\n00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:17.050\nAnd, and beyond that, you know, I just, I, I do, like I say, I do a little, I\n\n489\n00:26:17.050 --> 00:26:17.640\ndo a little\n\n490\n00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.980\nbit of surgery and, and they do a lot of work and God does a lot of healing,\n\n491\n00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.760\nyou know, and\n\n492\n00:26:22.760 --> 00:26:29.920\nso it, it, it really, I, my faith has gotten stronger in a greater being, the\n\n493\n00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:30.880\nlonger I've\n\n494\n00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:35.790\ndone what I, what I do because when I look at that, it really tells me that\n\n495\n00:26:35.790 --> 00:26:36.480\nthere's\n\n496\n00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.440\nsomething, something out there that is truly miraculous when it comes to the\n\n497\n00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:43.600\nhuman body.\n\n498\n00:26:43.600 --> 00:26:47.460\nYou know, I know you had a mentor that actually asked you to tell, tell him\n\n499\n00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:48.360\nsomething that\n\n500\n00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:50.160\nyou learned each week.\n\n501\n00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.640\nYou know, something that you picked up and he asked you, what is it?\n\n502\n00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:54.640\nAnd I love that.\n\n503\n00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:57.680\nAnd when I read that, I, I love that.\n\n504\n00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:00.680\nWhat do you do to stay on top of your game now?\n\n505\n00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:05.520\nUm, you know, I, I, I continued to do research.\n\n506\n00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:13.420\nI, I, I have found for me anyway, the, the most productive research for me is,\n\n507\n00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:14.960\nis addressing\n\n508\n00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:19.320\nissues that, that are challenging or things that I think can be done better.\n\n509\n00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:23.920\nSo I, I have never tended to do research for research's sake.\n\n510\n00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:27.080\nI've never needed to do research for my own status.\n\n511\n00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:32.310\nI, I've always gotten involved in, in investigating things that, that I thought\n\n512\n00:27:32.310 --> 00:27:33.400\nthat I could do\n\n513\n00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:34.520\nbetter.\n\n514\n00:27:34.520 --> 00:27:39.840\nAnd, um, so, so that, one of the ways I do that is, uh, I continue to\n\n515\n00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:41.200\ninvestigate.\n\n516\n00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:46.440\nThe other is that I, I'm a teacher and we, um, we, we run the largest sports\n\n517\n00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:47.160\nmedicine\n\n518\n00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.160\nfellowship training program in the country.\n\n519\n00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:53.000\nUh, we've got the largest alumni network out there.\n\n520\n00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:57.450\nWe've got 360 people now over the years that are out there that are sports\n\n521\n00:27:57.450 --> 00:27:58.480\nmedicine, orthopedic\n\n522\n00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:03.250\nsurgeons around the country and, and many of them are, are very accomplished\n\n523\n00:28:03.250 --> 00:28:04.160\nacademically\n\n524\n00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:06.320\nand now have their own training program.\n\n525\n00:28:06.320 --> 00:28:12.850\nSo, so staying fresh and teaching, uh, and especially these young talented\n\n526\n00:28:12.850 --> 00:28:13.920\npeople that\n\n527\n00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.120\nare coming in here now, you know, I, it, it makes me stay on top.\n\n528\n00:28:17.120 --> 00:28:18.120\nI'm going to be on my game.\n\n529\n00:28:18.120 --> 00:28:23.520\nYou know, you're not shy deal about giving other people credit for, for your\n\n530\n00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:24.760\ndevelopment.\n\n531\n00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:29.890\nDid you ever have a mentor help you see a blind spot that, that you had in your\n\n532\n00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:31.240\nown development?\n\n533\n00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.840\nAnd, and can you tell us about it?\n\n534\n00:28:33.840 --> 00:28:40.220\nYeah, I think the first one was probably, uh, the one that comes to mind, I'm\n\n535\n00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:40.920\nsure that\n\n536\n00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:44.490\nthere were, there were many before that and I didn't even realize the, the,\n\n537\n00:28:44.490 --> 00:28:45.520\nthat they were,\n\n538\n00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:48.280\nuh, polishing me up a little bit.\n\n539\n00:28:48.280 --> 00:28:54.900\nBut, um, Bob Curlin, who was, uh, who's considered by many to be the, the true\n\n540\n00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:57.000\nfather of, uh,\n\n541\n00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.520\nof, uh, team physicians and, and, and sports medicine, he ran the group.\n\n542\n00:29:03.520 --> 00:29:08.800\nBob Curlin and Frank Job is, are the Curlin and Job and in the clinic.\n\n543\n00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:15.000\nBoth passed away now, but when I came to interview out of my residency,\n\n544\n00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:15.040\nquestion, he\n\n545\n00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:19.500\nasked me was, uh, so, you know, tell me about, uh, tell me a little bit about\n\n546\n00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:20.400\nyourself.\n\n547\n00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:27.500\nWhat, you know, what you feel, uh, you know, is, uh, gives you the purpose to\n\n548\n00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:28.160\ndo, um, sports\n\n549\n00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.160\nmedicine.\n\n550\n00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.210\nAnd, and he was the one that really without me knowing it at the time was\n\n551\n00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:33.920\ndrawing the line\n\n552\n00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:38.440\nbetween, between purpose and, and passion for me.\n\n553\n00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:42.960\nAnd I started to talk about, you know, how great it would be to, to do what he\n\n554\n00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:43.560\n's doing\n\n555\n00:29:43.560 --> 00:29:47.170\nand, and how good it would feel to be able to take care of people, the injured,\n\n556\n00:29:47.170 --> 00:29:47.640\ninjured\n\n557\n00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:53.320\nathletes that were hurt and getting them back to work and, um, he said, listen,\n\n558\n00:29:53.320 --> 00:29:53.840\nI, I'm,\n\n559\n00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:59.240\nI'm not asking you about, you know, what turns you on in the day, every day.\n\n560\n00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.040\nI'm not asking you about your passion.\n\n561\n00:30:01.040 --> 00:30:05.440\nAnd I said, tell me what you feel like your purpose is here.\n\n562\n00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:10.310\nAnd that really made me, made me sort of focus on, on really the true meaning\n\n563\n00:30:10.310 --> 00:30:10.760\nof what,\n\n564\n00:30:10.760 --> 00:30:14.360\nwhat I was doing, where I was going.\n\n565\n00:30:14.360 --> 00:30:19.240\nAnd when I came to grips with what I was trying to do, what I really made me\n\n566\n00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:19.680\nhappy, what I\n\n567\n00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:25.200\nwas looking for was a way to take care of people, um, in, in the, in the best\n\n568\n00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:25.800\nway, in\n\n569\n00:30:25.800 --> 00:30:28.880\nthe best atmosphere that, that I could.\n\n570\n00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.640\nAnd, uh, for me, it was, uh, orthopedics and the active population and trying\n\n571\n00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:34.720\nto help,\n\n572\n00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.960\nhelp get them better from, from ailments and injuries.\n\n573\n00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.960\nSo that, that was, that's what I brought it all into focus for me.\n\n574\n00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.300\nNow, I, I understand that, that you're the president of the American North Ep\n\n575\n00:30:47.300 --> 00:30:48.160\nhedic Society\n\n576\n00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:49.360\nfor Sports Medicine.\n\n577\n00:30:49.360 --> 00:30:52.000\nYou have 4,000 members.\n\n578\n00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.760\nTell us about that role and, and, and how you've, how you've led in it.\n\n579\n00:30:56.760 --> 00:30:57.760\nYeah.\n\n580\n00:30:57.760 --> 00:31:01.000\nSo I, uh, in 2019, I was the president.\n\n581\n00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:06.280\nIt's a, when you, when you become elected president of that organization, it's\n\n582\n00:31:06.280 --> 00:31:06.640\na, it's\n\n583\n00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:10.000\na five year stint in the presidential line.\n\n584\n00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:16.150\nSo you, you really, you really get educated and, uh, and they help you to\n\n585\n00:31:16.150 --> 00:31:17.000\nevolve into\n\n586\n00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:21.930\nthat role, uh, for two years before your presidency, I, then I, I, when I was\n\n587\n00:31:21.930 --> 00:31:22.800\npresident,\n\n588\n00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:26.680\nwe had our big annual meeting in Boston in 2019.\n\n589\n00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:33.130\nAnd, and it was a, the largest attended meeting at that point for the society,\n\n590\n00:31:33.130 --> 00:31:34.240\num, uh, not\n\n591\n00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:38.640\nbecause I was president, but because, uh, you know, the, the program that we\n\n592\n00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:39.840\nput together.\n\n593\n00:31:39.840 --> 00:31:43.840\nAnd, and, uh, I had some amazing presidential speakers.\n\n594\n00:31:43.840 --> 00:31:49.170\nSo I, what I wanted to do was to create a, uh, uh, an experience for the people\n\n595\n00:31:49.170 --> 00:31:49.720\nthat were\n\n596\n00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.740\ngoing to take time out of their life, out of their practices and really come\n\n597\n00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:54.280\nand, and\n\n598\n00:31:54.280 --> 00:32:00.740\nlearn, learn not only about sports medicine, but learn about, uh, giving and\n\n599\n00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:02.480\nthe, and about\n\n600\n00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.540\navenues to, to be able to give back a lot of people out there looking for ways\n\n601\n00:32:06.540 --> 00:32:07.680\nto, to\n\n602\n00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.940\ngive back to their fellow man, but are looking for the right avenue or just\n\n603\n00:32:12.940 --> 00:32:13.920\nsome potential\n\n604\n00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.320\nto do it.\n\n605\n00:32:15.320 --> 00:32:19.860\nAnd so my presidential speakers, uh, were Ken Langone and Stan Druckenmiller,\n\n606\n00:32:19.860 --> 00:32:20.280\ntwo of\n\n607\n00:32:20.280 --> 00:32:24.920\nthe greatest givers that I have ever encountered in my life.\n\n608\n00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:29.440\nAnd I, and I, I count them among my closest friends.\n\n609\n00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:31.080\nUh, I'm very lucky about that.\n\n610\n00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:35.000\nMy keynote speaker was, was, uh, Tom Brady.\n\n611\n00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:40.850\nAnd I had a wonderful young lady who gave one of the most meaningful, uh,\n\n612\n00:32:40.850 --> 00:32:43.040\nspeeches, uh,\n\n613\n00:32:43.040 --> 00:32:45.120\nand that, that was Madison Cossian.\n\n614\n00:32:45.120 --> 00:32:52.300\nShe was a one of the fab five gold medal Olympic winners, uh, from the last\n\n615\n00:32:52.300 --> 00:32:52.600\nOlympics\n\n616\n00:32:52.600 --> 00:32:54.680\nand, uh, gymnast.\n\n617\n00:32:54.680 --> 00:33:00.430\nAnd, um, she talked about, she gave a riveting speech that to enlighten us on,\n\n618\n00:33:00.430 --> 00:33:01.360\non our blind\n\n619\n00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:04.240\nspots, uh, that we have.\n\n620\n00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:11.350\nAnd out of that grew, um, a major effort within AOS SM, the, the society for,\n\n621\n00:33:11.350 --> 00:33:12.280\nuh, athletes\n\n622\n00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:13.280\nadvocacy.\n\n623\n00:33:13.280 --> 00:33:19.060\nSo it, it brought us to, um, the, the forefront with regard to being, uh, you\n\n624\n00:33:19.060 --> 00:33:20.360\nknow, official\n\n625\n00:33:20.360 --> 00:33:24.360\nadvocates for the, for the needs of our, our athletes.\n\n626\n00:33:24.360 --> 00:33:29.570\nAnd, um, so to answer your question, I think that I tried to respond to what I\n\n627\n00:33:29.570 --> 00:33:30.440\nthought were\n\n628\n00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.280\nthe needs of the members.\n\n629\n00:33:32.280 --> 00:33:36.570\nI wanted to provide them with the things that I, I thought would, they would,\n\n630\n00:33:36.570 --> 00:33:37.080\nthey would\n\n631\n00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:40.240\ntake away from, from my time as president.\n\n632\n00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.100\nUm, and I would leave the society better and I would leave the members with, uh\n\n633\n00:33:45.100 --> 00:33:45.480\n, a bit\n\n634\n00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:48.320\nmore knowledge and enlightenment on what we do.\n\n635\n00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:50.880\nSo it was all member centric.\n\n636\n00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:55.250\nAnd so if I was successful as a president of the society, it was because I, I\n\n637\n00:33:55.250 --> 00:33:55.880\ndid it for\n\n638\n00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:56.880\nthem.\n\n639\n00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:57.880\nIt's funny how that works.\n\n640\n00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:05.220\nYou know, you're also on NFL today on CBS to give the status updates on injured\n\n641\n00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:06.120\nplayers\n\n642\n00:34:06.120 --> 00:34:08.880\nor prospective on injuries.\n\n643\n00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.920\nHow do you get prepared to go on TV and be, enjoy it.\n\n644\n00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:16.620\nI've done some of that less and less over the past few years because I'm, I\n\n645\n00:34:16.620 --> 00:34:17.160\nhappen to\n\n646\n00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:19.640\nbe, I guess I'm taken care of a lot of these guys.\n\n647\n00:34:19.640 --> 00:34:24.420\nAnd so I, I, it's not really proper for me then to go on and comment, comment\n\n648\n00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:24.960\nabout,\n\n649\n00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.960\nabout them.\n\n650\n00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:30.480\nSo I've done that a bit less as, as my practice has gone on.\n\n651\n00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.990\nUm, what I enjoy is I enjoy explaining the types of injuries to, uh, the\n\n652\n00:34:36.990 --> 00:34:38.800\ninterested public.\n\n653\n00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:42.120\nI think that, uh, you know, it, it's educational.\n\n654\n00:34:42.120 --> 00:34:46.460\nI think that, uh, it's helpful for them to learn a little bit about, uh, you\n\n655\n00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:47.200\nknow, the\n\n656\n00:34:47.200 --> 00:34:51.450\nkinds of injuries that, that occur in an active population and the kinds of\n\n657\n00:34:51.450 --> 00:34:52.240\ninjuries that\n\n658\n00:34:52.240 --> 00:34:55.560\nthese remarkable athletes are, are dealing with.\n\n659\n00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:58.680\nAnd, and, uh, so that's what I did enjoy about it.\n\n660\n00:34:58.680 --> 00:35:03.900\nI, I just, uh, my, my ability to do that has decreased over time because I'm\n\n661\n00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:04.760\ntaking care\n\n662\n00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.960\nof a lot of these guys and people are interested in.\n\n663\n00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:12.560\nI, you know, I also understand that your, your, uh, your wife was an\n\n664\n00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:13.720\noutstanding surgical\n\n665\n00:35:13.720 --> 00:35:14.720\nnurse.\n\n666\n00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:18.280\nUh, how has her knowledge of the business impacted you?\n\n667\n00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:26.430\nUh, you know, she is, uh, my wife is, uh, she can laser right in on what's\n\n668\n00:35:26.430 --> 00:35:27.840\nimportant.\n\n669\n00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:34.800\nShe's not tainted or, uh, overcome by glamour or celebrity or anything.\n\n670\n00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:39.590\nAlthough she, I think she's a beautiful glamorous woman, but, but that, not,\n\n671\n00:35:39.590 --> 00:35:40.080\nnot in the way\n\n672\n00:35:40.080 --> 00:35:42.560\nthat is, uh, superficial or anything.\n\n673\n00:35:42.560 --> 00:35:46.360\nAnd she was, she was such a great OR nurse.\n\n674\n00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:50.460\nI don't think that, that the, you know, those guys that I worked with ever forg\n\n675\n00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:51.480\nave me for\n\n676\n00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:56.550\ntaking her off the nursing market, but, but she, she, because she worked her\n\n677\n00:35:56.550 --> 00:35:57.320\ntail off.\n\n678\n00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.440\nShe was, she can talk about agency.\n\n679\n00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.680\nShe considered everything that happened in that OR, her responsibility.\n\n680\n00:36:05.680 --> 00:36:11.240\nAnd if it wasn't perfect, uh, you know, she was really was, was not happy.\n\n681\n00:36:11.240 --> 00:36:14.080\nAnd so she has helped me over the years.\n\n682\n00:36:14.080 --> 00:36:15.960\nWe've been married 28 years.\n\n683\n00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.540\nUh, she's helped me to really focus in and stay focused on what's really\n\n684\n00:36:20.540 --> 00:36:21.800\nimportant and\n\n685\n00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:25.520\nnot to get caught up in, you know, a lot of the things that come and go, you\n\n686\n00:36:25.520 --> 00:36:26.320\nknow, with,\n\n687\n00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.760\nwith a profession taken care of well known people.\n\n688\n00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:33.710\nYou know, you've had so much success, Neil, but almost every leader has an epic\n\n689\n00:36:33.710 --> 00:36:34.360\nfail that\n\n690\n00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.000\nthey look back on.\n\n691\n00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.080\nWhat would be yours and how'd you deal with it?\n\n692\n00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:47.550\nAs a surgeon, I don't remember the, the, the hundreds and thousands of, um, of\n\n693\n00:36:47.550 --> 00:36:47.760\ngreat\n\n694\n00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:48.760\nresults.\n\n695\n00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:52.230\nI don't remember necessarily unless if I really think about or somebody\n\n696\n00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:53.280\nmentions a name to\n\n697\n00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.210\nme about people that have been great on the field or whatever after the, after\n\n698\n00:36:58.210 --> 00:36:58.960\nmy surgery\n\n699\n00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:04.460\nwith them, I remember the, I remember the few that didn't turn out like that.\n\n700\n00:37:04.460 --> 00:37:09.960\nAnd so I, I'm trying to avoid considering those failures.\n\n701\n00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:16.270\nIf because I, because I know that I did the best that I could, you know, so\n\n702\n00:37:16.270 --> 00:37:16.880\nthose are the\n\n703\n00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.320\nmy, my less than great results are the ones that I remember.\n\n704\n00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:27.800\nMaybe the one thing that comes to mind that I really do consider to this point\n\n705\n00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:28.760\nI've failed\n\n706\n00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:32.240\nat was that I haven't really accomplished.\n\n707\n00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:37.970\nYou know, I had a big goal in mind that, you know, I really wanted to create a\n\n708\n00:37:37.970 --> 00:37:38.720\nsafety net\n\n709\n00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:43.280\nfor young student athletes that were out there that got injured that, that,\n\n710\n00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.240\nthat didn't have\n\n711\n00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:47.680\nthe wherewithal to get the kind of care they needed.\n\n712\n00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:54.320\nAnd I think it was a failure to this point because, um, because I just haven't\n\n713\n00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:54.960\npushed\n\n714\n00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.160\nahead and been a bulldog about getting that done.\n\n715\n00:37:58.160 --> 00:38:04.080\nSo those are the ones I try not to, not to judge myself on.\n\n716\n00:38:04.080 --> 00:38:07.600\nYou know, this conversation has been so fascinating and unique for me.\n\n717\n00:38:07.600 --> 00:38:09.840\nIt's also been so much fun.\n\n718\n00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.000\nJust to hear your thoughts.\n\n719\n00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.360\nI want to have some more with you with the lightning round of Q and A. All\n\n720\n00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:15.000\nright.\n\n721\n00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.000\nLet's go.\n\n722\n00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.000\nWhat three words best describe you?\n\n723\n00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:28.120\nLoyal, diligent and positive.\n\n724\n00:38:28.120 --> 00:38:33.320\nIf you could be one person for a day besides you, who would it be?\n\n725\n00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:37.740\nI would love, I think that for a short period of time and then get the hell out\n\n726\n00:38:37.740 --> 00:38:38.400\nof there,\n\n727\n00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:41.320\nI would love to be the president of the United States.\n\n728\n00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:48.110\nI think that, um, I think that maybe I'm, I'd be, I'm disillusioned or I'm not\n\n729\n00:38:48.110 --> 00:38:48.720\naware\n\n730\n00:38:48.720 --> 00:38:53.000\nof how, you know, everybody had goes in with big ideas of what they could do.\n\n731\n00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:59.190\nBut I think that, you know, with honesty and attention to, um, to, to really\n\n732\n00:38:59.190 --> 00:38:59.800\nwhat's\n\n733\n00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:05.020\nbest for the, for the country and the, and the people that live here, you know,\n\n734\n00:39:05.020 --> 00:39:05.320\nI would\n\n735\n00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:06.760\nlove a crack at it.\n\n736\n00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:10.320\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n737\n00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:14.160\nUh, I'm extremely sensitive.\n\n738\n00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:17.560\nDo you have any hidden talents?\n\n739\n00:39:17.560 --> 00:39:24.050\nUm, I, I, I have a few, I have a few talents, but I don't think any of them are\n\n740\n00:39:24.050 --> 00:39:24.240\nhidden\n\n741\n00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:28.520\nat this point.\n\n742\n00:39:28.520 --> 00:39:31.120\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n743\n00:39:31.120 --> 00:39:35.280\nUm, inefficiency.\n\n744\n00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.280\nWhat's your favorite operating procedure?\n\n745\n00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:39.960\nThe one that you just can't wait to go do.\n\n746\n00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:45.080\nUh, you know, I, I, and I, no, no, this is not a lightning round, but I, I vac\n\n747\n00:39:45.080 --> 00:39:45.640\nillate\n\n748\n00:39:45.640 --> 00:39:50.480\nand, and, uh, you know, I go through periods where I love rotator cuff surgery.\n\n749\n00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.160\nI go through periods where I love ligament surgery in the knee.\n\n750\n00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:58.640\nAnd, and so I have a few wheelhouses, uh, you know, whether it's a rotator, I\n\n751\n00:39:58.640 --> 00:39:59.240\njust,\n\n752\n00:39:59.240 --> 00:40:02.560\nI just told a patient that I'm going to take care of another physician.\n\n753\n00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:05.920\nI'm going to operate on his rotator cuff and I said, you know, right now, this\n\n754\n00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:06.200\nis my\n\n755\n00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:07.200\nfavorite thing.\n\n756\n00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:12.280\nAnd so, uh, you know, I, I'm excited about the, the few things that I do.\n\n757\n00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:16.000\nAnd it sort of shifts from week to week.\n\n758\n00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.000\nLuckily.\n\n759\n00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:23.100\nI want to wrap this up, uh, Neil, by, by asking you, you know, what, what three\n\n760\n00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:23.440\nbits\n\n761\n00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:28.280\nof advice would you give to aspiring leaders?\n\n762\n00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:32.960\nUm, no thyself.\n\n763\n00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:39.840\nI think that, uh, you know, no, you cannot effectively lead other people unless\n\n764\n00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:40.400\nif you\n\n765\n00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:48.150\nare keenly aware of your own strengths and weaknesses and, um, that you, you\n\n766\n00:40:48.150 --> 00:40:48.920\nneed to\n\n767\n00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:54.650\nbe able to function when you're coming in touch with other people to make sure\n\n768\n00:40:54.650 --> 00:40:55.000\nthat the\n\n769\n00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:01.980\nway that you're helping to guide others, um, is not tainted by some unrecogn\n\n770\n00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:03.240\nized, uh,\n\n771\n00:41:03.240 --> 00:41:07.980\nweaknesses and your strengths put those to good use when it comes to dealing\n\n772\n00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:08.520\nwith, with\n\n773\n00:41:08.520 --> 00:41:09.520\nothers.\n\n774\n00:41:09.520 --> 00:41:11.440\nSo know thyself first.\n\n775\n00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:19.050\nUm, secondly, except the fact that, that people are human and, um, you know,\n\n776\n00:41:19.050 --> 00:41:20.200\nyou, you,\n\n777\n00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:26.130\nyou want to be able to have some way to inspire, create inspiration in, in\n\n778\n00:41:26.130 --> 00:41:27.080\npeople.\n\n779\n00:41:27.080 --> 00:41:33.620\nAnd, and if you're going to be a leader of, of any sort, um, I think that you,\n\n780\n00:41:33.620 --> 00:41:34.000\nyou really\n\n781\n00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.320\nneed to give people something to believe in.\n\n782\n00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:43.760\nAnd so it, how you conduct yourself your own life and how you inspire others,\n\n783\n00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:44.640\nuh, you need\n\n784\n00:41:44.640 --> 00:41:49.800\nto give them something to look to, to want to emulate or to.\n\n785\n00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:54.430\nAnd so, you know, I think that, you know, your, your own taking care of your\n\n786\n00:41:54.430 --> 00:41:55.480\nown issues is,\n\n787\n00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:01.360\nuh, is very, very important and, and give them something to really aspire to.\n\n788\n00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:05.200\nDon't, don't let your hair down, um, in inappropriate ways in front of the\n\n789\n00:42:05.200 --> 00:42:06.400\npeople that you're, you're\n\n790\n00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.520\ntrying to lead and inspire.\n\n791\n00:42:08.520 --> 00:42:16.680\nUm, and, uh, and the last, lastly is, um, I'm all about second chances.\n\n792\n00:42:16.680 --> 00:42:23.360\nAnd, um, you know, if something just doesn't, doesn't exactly follow every rule\n\n793\n00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:24.280\nor guideline,\n\n794\n00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:29.410\nthere's a, there's a break in it to be, to not look at ways to salvage\n\n795\n00:42:29.410 --> 00:42:30.520\nsomething.\n\n796\n00:42:30.520 --> 00:42:35.830\nI, you know, I've had some, some people who are, are fantastic surgeons and\n\n797\n00:42:35.830 --> 00:42:36.680\nfantastic\n\n798\n00:42:36.680 --> 00:42:42.140\ndoctors and now they are in positions of leadership that along the, along the\n\n799\n00:42:42.140 --> 00:42:42.520\nway, there, there\n\n800\n00:42:42.520 --> 00:42:45.800\nmay have been a misstep here or there.\n\n801\n00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.620\nAnd, um, and if, and if, you know, some things are a little bit too, too\n\n802\n00:42:50.620 --> 00:42:51.760\negregious to be\n\n803\n00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:55.200\nable to overlook, I will, I will admit that.\n\n804\n00:42:55.200 --> 00:43:01.290\nBut by and large, um, I'm all about second chances and, and, and salvaging the\n\n805\n00:43:01.290 --> 00:43:02.080\ngreatness\n\n806\n00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:08.020\nin people and, and not let, uh, not let, you know, sort of this blind, uh,\n\n807\n00:43:08.020 --> 00:43:09.000\nallegiance\n\n808\n00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:13.080\nto a, a rule book, um, dominate everything, you know.\n\n809\n00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:18.480\nWell, speaking of greatness, uh, Neil, you obviously are a great leader.\n\n810\n00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.160\nYou're leading the way in your profession and you care so much.\n\n811\n00:43:22.160 --> 00:43:24.480\nIt's, it's, it's absolutely inspiring.\n\n812\n00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.890\nUh, and just by listening to this conversation, I want to become a better\n\n813\n00:43:27.890 --> 00:43:28.480\nperson.\n\n814\n00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:29.800\nI can tell you that.\n\n815\n00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:33.200\nI want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show.\n\n816\n00:43:33.200 --> 00:43:34.200\nThank you, David.\n\n817\n00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:35.200\nIt's been a real privilege to be with you.\n\n818\n00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:46.080\nLet me tell you something.\n\n819\n00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:50.870\nWhen Dr. Neil started talking about the difference between passion and purpose,\n\n820\n00:43:50.870 --> 00:43:51.600\nit really got\n\n821\n00:43:51.600 --> 00:43:57.800\nmy mind racing and it took me back to my days as CEO of young brands.\n\n822\n00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:02.410\nYou know, we had had a lot of years of good success and we'd really built the\n\n823\n00:44:02.410 --> 00:44:03.120\nbusiness\n\n824\n00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:08.730\ninto a global business and I wanted to really get people excited about what we\n\n825\n00:44:08.730 --> 00:44:09.760\ncould become.\n\n826\n00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:14.280\nAnd in fact, I wanted to have something that got me so excited that I couldn't\n\n827\n00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:14.760\nwait to\n\n828\n00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:16.280\nget out of bed.\n\n829\n00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:21.270\nSo I came up with this phrase that we were going to build the defining global\n\n830\n00:44:21.270 --> 00:44:21.920\ncompany\n\n831\n00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:23.400\nthat feeds the world.\n\n832\n00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.360\nNow what did I mean by defining?\n\n833\n00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:29.950\nIt meant that people would best practice us for how to recognize people and\n\n834\n00:44:29.950 --> 00:44:30.460\nthat we\n\n835\n00:44:30.460 --> 00:44:34.930\nwould have a recognition culture that was renowned, that we would make our\n\n836\n00:44:34.930 --> 00:44:35.960\nbrands vibrant\n\n837\n00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:41.050\neverywhere we do business and we would feed the entire world, not just people,\n\n838\n00:44:41.050 --> 00:44:41.840\nour food,\n\n839\n00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.000\nbut also the people who couldn't afford our food.\n\n840\n00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.780\nWe would tie in with the world food program and feed the hungry as well.\n\n841\n00:44:49.780 --> 00:44:52.160\nNow this was something that really excited me.\n\n842\n00:44:52.160 --> 00:44:56.300\nIt got me out of bed, made me want to go to work and it also inspired our\n\n843\n00:44:56.300 --> 00:44:56.980\npeople.\n\n844\n00:44:56.980 --> 00:45:03.580\nSo I'm a big believer in purpose because that purpose drove me day in and day\n\n845\n00:45:03.580 --> 00:45:04.300\nout.\n\n846\n00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:09.160\nSo I've got to ask you, are you leading with passion or purpose?\n\n847\n00:45:09.160 --> 00:45:14.240\nRemember, passion will fade away but purpose will keep you engaged as a leader\n\n848\n00:45:14.240 --> 00:45:15.080\nthrough the\n\n849\n00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:16.760\nups and downs.\n\n850\n00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:20.440\nNow here's what I want you to do and I know you can do it.\n\n851\n00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:26.480\nTake the next 10 minutes and write down why it is that you do what you do.\n\n852\n00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:30.040\nHave you ever thought about why it is that you lead?\n\n853\n00:45:30.040 --> 00:45:31.860\nWhat's your purpose?\n\n854\n00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:37.160\nWrite it down and be thinking about that this week as you make your decisions.\n\n855\n00:45:37.160 --> 00:45:39.840\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n856\n00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:44.220\nWhat we learned today is that leaders lead with purpose.\n\n857\n00:45:44.220 --> 00:45:46.880\nTake that into your week.\n\n858\n00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:51.050\nThanks again for listening to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to\n\n859\n00:45:51.050 --> 00:45:51.660\nlisten in\n\n860\n00:45:51.660 --> 00:45:55.580\nwhile I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n861\n00:45:55.580 --> 00:45:59.550\nBy giving you something simple that you can apply to your business, you'll\n\n862\n00:45:59.550 --> 00:46:00.420\ncontinue to\n\n863\n00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:03.700\ndevelop into an incredible leader as well.\n\n864\n00:46:03.700 --> 00:46:04.740\nI'll see you next week.\n\n865\n00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:14.740\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n866\n00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:24.740\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. And that's what this podcast is all about. Now, today's guest is my good friend, Neil l trage, a world renowned orthopedic surgeon who works with the top athletes in the world athletes like Tom Brady and Brooks Katka. Now, I'm gonna say something here that you might think makes me a little crazy. It's a little provocative, but but stick with me. As a leader, you shouldn't Chase passion. Now, I know what you're thinking out there, David, you've lost your mind. Everybody should be passionate. But I mean it. If what drives you is simply passion, you are setting yourself up for burnout, which is the absolute worst place you should be as a leader. And so while I don't want you to chase passion, I do have another idea for you. I want you to chase purpose. Instead, the great leaders I know understand why they do what they do. And I'll tell you, purpose will sustain you a lot more than passion. You know, we've all fallen in love with something one day and had that go away the next, but purpose sustains what you do. In my interview with Neil, he shares several stories and how this plays out in his life, his career and in the operating room. And I can't think of a better leader for you to learn from on this critically important insight. So here we go. We cover so much in this episode, and I can't wait for you to listen in. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. It's a conversation with Dr. Neil Ella tries.

Hello, I want to start out by just taking a moment to thank you for my own physical well being. You know, a couple of years ago, I had Achilles surgery, I now have a plate and four screws in the back of my heel. And I understand that you have the patent on the technology that made that operation successful. I can now walk 36 holes and golf with no pain. How about that, thank you very much awesome.

Neal ElAttrache 2:33

And it's great. By the way, we never agreed to be my partner in any of these golf tournaments. With a few strokes you're getting, I think we could do really well.

David Novak 2:43

I'd love to do that someday, you absolutely light up like a candle when I talked about my success. With my operation, you seem to get so much joy from what you do.

Neal ElAttrache 2:55

I'm so fortunate to have found maybe the one thing in the world that I really feel like I'm any good at you know, and it gives me a ton of joy to be able to do it and hear the stories like yours. You know, you mentioned some of the instruments that I had developed. And I get a real kick out of hearing people that have benefited from it in ways that I had never really conceived of whenever I was going through the development of that, you know, when I was developing any of the things that I've done any of my patents or intellectual property, it was just to solve problems that I was facing challenges I was facing in my own practice or in the operating room. And I don't know that I was prescient enough or smart enough to realize all the uses that these things could be could be put into practice for and so you know, I'm glad to hear stories like yours every now and then to say that you've benefited from it.

David Novak 3:56

Yeah, absolutely. How many patents Do you have? Nealon. And how do you go about innovating? Well,

Neal ElAttrache 4:02

I have I have six that are the main ones and they're iterations on, on on a theme with regard to using implants in bone that that fix suture where you where you need to, to fix it to repair tissue. And also to do it in a way that doesn't require a lot of extra suture not tying things like that. So they're variations on on the same theme with regard to minimizing exposure, minimizing surgical morbidity, and getting really strong tissue repair.

David Novak 4:37

You know, any of the last time we talked you mentioned to me that you were going to have seven Tommy John surgeries scheduled in the upcoming week. Something that's never been done before. For listeners out there. What's Tommy John surgery and can you tell us how that week went?

Neal ElAttrache 4:58

Tommy John surgery is the operation to fix the ligament on the on the inside of the elbow that breaks down in, in pitchers and and also happens in in other endeavors like Javelin throwers in track and field. And we found out over the years that there's a form of handball played in Europe where they were, they tear this ligament too. But it really it was the stabilizing ligament that that is necessary when a person is accelerating their arm and into throwing type position. And my senior partner who, who is no longer with us, maybe looking down from from the heavens on everything that I'm doing anyway, that he was the one that developed this operation and true to form with his own humility. He named it after the patient that he did on rather than getting it named after himself. So Frank Jobe is the is the great surgeon that developed the operation. And the first person he did it on was a pitcher named Tommy, John. And Tommy, John went on to win more games after the operation than he did before the operation, he was a great Dodger player, and then with the Yankees. And so that procedure is one of the most successful procedures that we do in sports medicine, with regard to getting players that have been injured back to play, if you look at all the things we do that that procedure is, probably has the best track record.

David Novak 6:32

So you did seven of these in one week, you know, how's everybody doing after that surgery?

Neal ElAttrache 6:38

Well, we're, you know, we track our patients pretty carefully. And and so far, it those were recent, within the past several months, and they're all doing fine at this point. You know, it's when they get back to, back to the thing that that got them here in the first place, you know, when they get back in the war out there on the mound that that's, you know, when we really pay attention to see, you know, how they're doing, how they're performing. But so far, so good. You know,

David Novak 7:03

I was thinking about that seven surgeries, you know, with people who have, they're relying on their career that the, you know, relying on you to get them back, back up on the mound, you've got to feel all kinds of pressure on that, you know, you have a process that you use for getting yourself up for each surgery.

Neal ElAttrache 7:24

You know, I I stay in my lane I do, I do what I really feel that, that I'm proficient at and that I'm that, that I'm good at, there's going to be some things that I see occasionally that are not that common, and, and no one has a lot of surgical experience with with some things because they're rather rare. But I'm not beyond going and practicing and technique or taking some time to go down to the lab and working on some things if this is something that's unusual or rare that. So I would say that the answer to your question is I I am very, very prepared. Every time I go into the operating room, I I've envisioned exactly what the injury is I have it's it's tattooed in my brain, when I'm going to see I already anticipate all of the eventualities, you know, you can't predict everything that's going to happen in an operating room, but what you can do is you can narrow it down to the things that could happen and, and you don't want to be doing a lot of deliberating in the or in surgery, that that's not a good place for the first surgeon to be. That's like a commander in a battle, you know, being indecisive and that nothing good happens with that. So you have to anticipate the things that that can happen, the things you can see. And immediately that drives you to a solution that you've already worked out in your head. So I'm very prepared. I, I imagined everything that I could see, I already imagined the anatomy in my brain before I make an incision in the skin. So that's, that's why I feel very, very comfortable when I'm in there.

David Novak 9:08

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it makes so much sense. Now, I'd like to just kind of go back to the beginning. You know, tell us a story about your upbringing that impacted the kind of leader that you've become.

Neal ElAttrache 9:20

I was raised in a in a caregivers home, you know, my my, my father was, was a surgeon and his living was in the rural areas of, of Western Pennsylvania, in and that's how I grew up. I grew up in a in a coal mining town of hardworking people. And I just got a chance to, to sort of observe and I maybe I didn't realize what the impact it was having on me, but I saw what it meant to take care of others. My mother started the Meals on Wheels program there in that little town and that was very important because there was a people as they were aging, they really they couldn't get around. And it was a long way to go to the grocery store and things like that. So So I saw the way that you you gain a lot personally by living a life of of that kind of service. And so I was drawn to that. I'm not a jack of all trades, you know, I was I was an okay high school athlete, I nowhere near as good as I thought I was my mother figured that out quickly and encouraged me to go to a school that I wouldn't have any delusions that I was good enough to play college football or anything and and I went on to Notre Dame and, and then from there went to medical school at the University of Pittsburgh, because I wanted to be a surgeon and all the all the people that wanted to be surgeons at that time seem to be gravitating there. And when you're young in your 20s, and you found the thing that you feel like you were meant to do, and and the rewards were amazing, because you you just you felt like you were on top of the world, like you were an astronaut that there was walking on the moon, you, you are sort of blind to some of the realities of life with regard to your profession. And I was drawn to orthopedic surgery where you had otherwise generally healthy people came in broken, you fix them, and they got back to, to doing what they what they love to do. And I became an orthopedic surgeon, orthopedic surgery has given me a real purpose and reward in life that I don't know, that I could have ever gotten with anything else.

David Novak 11:35

You've mentioned, the joy you get from your profession, and you just mentioned the word, purpose, you know, what do you think is driven you most to your path for excellence, that passion that you ever the purpose that you have?

Neal ElAttrache 11:49

purpose for sure, you know, I think that you know, we I love it when I see people come in and they have a ton of, you know, passion for, for, you know what they're doing some of these young guys that are coming in young guys and ladies now that that are coming in and really drawn to orthopedics and they are very passionate but that they have to realize, like I realized you after the fact that that passion is it's it's about you, it's about your your response to things and the passion can be both good and bad passion is it's your it's shaded by your maybe your needs at the time, what kind of gratification you're getting. But your purpose is really about what you were meant to do. As far as achieving a goal in life and passion will wax and wane. You'll fall in love and out of love with things and but your purpose if you really consider what was I really meant to do to be able to do the best for me and the world around me that's sustainable, that if you if you really see it clearly, and come to grips with with that. And if you're lucky enough to really look at it that way that will last a lifetime. And that will drive you through the tough moments. And so I'm driven by purpose, passion, it's, it's it's great. It's a great exhilarating feeling, now and then. But the big things in my life are driven by purpose.

David Novak 13:29

You know, Doctor, you know, when you were coming up in the orthopedic world, did you have a pivotal moment that really changed the trajectory of your career,

Neal ElAttrache 13:40

those moments happened to me all the time, and still do. I think that probably the biggest false thing that I could ever say is that I'm somehow self made, man. And I think that those pivotal moments happened every single time some somebody came into my life that for whatever reason, took an interest in me or what I was doing it and I became better for every one of those encounters. And so I could remember so clearly, all those times when somebody came along and pushed me forward, did whatever they needed to do, or or, or added whatever they need big or small to make me better for having had that that happened to me. So I've always remembered that and I try to pay that back. You know, I I try to anytime that I come into contact with somebody that might be you know, on the path to their life's work, you know, I I try to add something to it if I can, so it's happened to me a lot of times, David, and, you know, some some big some level but it's happened to me numerous times.

David Novak 14:52

You've talked about heightened sensitivity as a critical asset for a surgeon. Explain.

Neal ElAttrache 14:59

Well, you Uh, you know, the sensitivity is, it's all encompassing, you know, you have to be, if you're not in the moment, and really aware of the interaction, and observant, sort of as a second nature of people you're taking care of, then you're not really, you're not really getting to 100% of what you need to be doing. So the relationship I have with, with, with the Pilat people I take care of is, I would say that that's probably the most intimate relationship that one human being can have with another.

David Novak 15:39

I've heard you actually say, surgeons can create a higher level of intimacy for human beings than any other profession, including the clergy.

Neal ElAttrache 15:50

I agree, and I'm an I am spirit, I consider myself spiritual. And, you know, I was raised in that kind of a household. So there's, I'm not, I'm not running down the clergy, by any means. But, but when I look at the relationship, that that happens between two human beings, when one person is saying, I trust you enough to put my body my health, or that of my loved one in your hands, if that doesn't strike, budding physicians out there, right, between the eyes, as is this divine purpose, then I then then they're missing, they're missing the most beautiful thing that that I experienced, you know, you

David Novak 16:39

hear and see a lot of doctors, you know, where, you know, they try to keep it emotional distance from their patients. How do you look at the relationship that you have with the patient? So can you get to closer? You know, I know, you operate on a lot of friends, for example.

Neal ElAttrache 16:59

Yeah, I think that, you know, if, if the closeness clouds your judgment, I think it's a problem. And so there's a lot of things that happen in in, in what I do, on a weekly basis, that if I worried about the media, the press, the agent, the team, you know, all of these other things, because what would be sad, or what would be, you know, it could definitely cloud your cloud, your judgment. And I think the same goes, if you're taking care of somebody that's dear to you. If if you're, if that closeness is going to cloud your judgment on doing what's best doing your job, then then it can be a problem, I find, I don't think that it's an issue at all. If I have, if I had a friend or a relative, that I thought that I could do something as well, or better than, then what else they could get for me to, for me to do that, I'll be quite frank about that. Unless if i Unless if I found myself in this situation where my relationship, my feelings would cloud somehow my judgment, and they will therefore be a detriment to them.

David Novak 18:21

Yeah, that makes sense. You know, and, you know, I understand you, you are the team physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Rams. What's that, like? And what's the key to success in a role like that?

Neal ElAttrache 18:35

Very, very simple, very simple ingredient. The patient comes first. So every one of these players is I consider a patient and, and so if that comes first, their well being comes first, everything else takes care of itself. And, you know, we can talk a little bit about the history of sports and how that has aligned incentives as as time has gone on, there's more and more money in in these sports and things but it's made, made things actually a lot easier, not more difficult, because everybody's incentives are aligned. But if you consider the well being of that, of that player, patient and all that really matters at that point is that relationship between me and that player patient everything else flows from there. And aside from that, then it's the things that that make any executive you know, a good executive, its availability, affability and ability, and the three A's you know that, you know, if I wasn't available, or if I wasn't able, or if people hated me, you know, how effective would I be so, so, you know, the the same ingredients that makes any any executive good, but, but by and large, you know, I can I can eliminate all of the conflicts of interest if I just keep the the player patient first.

David Novak 19:54

Well, from now on, I'm going to refer to you as the AAA leader. Do you work with a Hall of Famer Joe Torre? What did you learn about leadership watching him manage the Dodgers,

Neal ElAttrache 20:06

he was a very player centric person and what he did you know, if you look at the people that he managed, and there's a few other coaches that come to mind, but Joe is, at the top of the heap, when it comes to this, maybe Pat Riley was another one that could do this, they took some of the biggest sort of impact players biggest egos biggest people in their sport, and put them together in a locker room. And his motto was not check your ego at the door at all, quite frankly, it was the opposite. It was listen, you're special, you're here, because you're special, bring that bring that on on in here, but do it in a way that makes the other guys better. And I learned a lot by watching him manage the, you know, the big egos that he was managing. And I think that, you know, he was so successful as a manager, because he got the best out of each one of these big time players. And did it in a way that he completely allowed them to be them. He allowed Jeter to be Jeter, he allowed, you know, a rod to be him. The only rule he had was bring it on in here, but make the guy next to you better. And I think that that's a great way, if you're taking care of people, the managing people and, you know, working with a with a real with a team of any kind of any kind of job, that's a great way to do it.

David Novak 21:44

You know, speaking of egos, you know, surgeons are known to have huge egos, you know, because you have to have that confidence to be able to go in and get it done. And, you know, how do you manage and lead the, the ego part of your job,

Neal ElAttrache 22:00

I love the gratification just like anybody else, but But I in what I do, it can be poison, it can really, it can be poisoned for me, and it can hurt somebody. And so I really try to make it more of a self awareness thing, you know, I know what I'm good at. And I know I'm always trying to get better and hone my skills every day. And so, you know, I don't mind if I do something, because I think I'm good at it, because I think I am. But I'm self aware enough to know that problems can arise, challenges can arise and that you better be prepared to handle it. And if you're not growing, you know, if you're not green and growing, then then you're next to rotten, you know, you're you're ripe and next to hot and so I don't ever want to be on the right side, I want to be green and growing.

David Novak 22:51

It's good. You know, you've also worked for the youngest coach in the NFL, Sean Sean McVeigh, what did you learn from him that you tried to apply in your world,

Neal ElAttrache 23:00

Sean makes everything his responsibility. You know, he has what we call agency, you know, he thinks that everything that occurs within those walls, at the LA Rams is at least impacted or can be impacted by by him and his work and what he does. So he takes responsibility. For pretty much everything that happens there. Sometimes it's a very difficult way to live, because you end up, you end up really, you know, putting it on yourself whenever things that are a little bit out of your control, you know, occur. And so that can be a hard way to live. However, I don't think that you can succeed in in a, in a big endeavor like that, if you or even personally in your own personal life, if you consider basically everything as fate or it's somebody else's responsibility or, you know, I didn't succeed because this and this and this happened that were out of my control. Sean is it for his young young years, is really remarkable at basically saying, You know what, this is my job. I'm going to study my tail off, I'm going to be as good at this as I can be. And I'm, it's my responsibility to make this thing successful. And I just I really admire this young guy.

David Novak 24:30

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that makes so much sense. He's clearly moved up the accountability ladder for sure. You know, you know, you recently did knee surgeries with Tom Brady and Brooks Capco. Doing the surgery is one thing. How do you help your patients through the recovery process?

Neal ElAttrache 24:48

Yeah, I think that I'm a very positive optimistic person. I don't think falsely so I think that you know, I see what's possible and I I sort of exude that and I feed off of other positive personalities, you've, you've hit on two people that I don't think there's anybody I've ever encountered. Maybe the late Kobe Bryant, maybe but, but Tom Brady is a is a very, very special guy, as you know, I think you know him a bit and, and so his positive, can do attitude, it's well founded in reality. But, you know, there's that you feel I feed off of that as a as a physician. And so, and I think that they, my, my patients can tell that from the doorway, when you walk in these, especially these athletes, these are real, sort of alpha animals, you know, they, they can sense a lot of things and, and if you come in, and you're honest, and they, they trust you, and believe what you're saying, and you exude this positivity in a, in a realistic way, I think that that's, that is a big recipe for for success. And beyond that, you know, I just, I did, like I say, I do, I do a little bit of surgery, and, and they do a lot of work, and God does a lot of healing, you know, and so it's it really I, my faith has gotten stronger in a greater being, the longer I've done what I what I do, because when I look at that, it really tells me that there's something something out there that is truly miraculous. When it comes to the human body. You know,

David Novak 26:43

I know you had a mentor that actually asked you to tell tell him something that you learned each week, you know, something that you picked up, and he asked you, what is it and I love that. And when I read that, I love that, what do you do to stay on top of your game now?

Neal ElAttrache 27:01

You know, I, I continued to do research i I've I have found for me anyway, that the the most productive research for me is, is addressing issues that that are challenging, or things that I think can be done better. So I've never tended to do research for researchers sake, I've never needed to do research for my own status. I I've always gotten involved in, in investigating things that that I thought that I could do better. And so so that one of the ways I do that is I continue to investigate. The other is that I'm a teacher and we we run the largest sports medicine fellowship training program in the country. We've got the largest alumni network out there, we've got 360 People now over the years that are out there, that are sports medicine, orthopedic surgeons around the country, and many of them are very accomplished academically and now have their own training program. So So staying fresh and teaching, especially these young, talented people that are coming in here now, you know, it makes me stay on my game. You know, you're not

David Novak 28:19

shy deal about giving other people credit for your development. Did you ever have a mentor help you see a blind spot that that you had in your own development? And and can you tell us about it?

Neal ElAttrache 28:34

Yeah, I think the first one was probably the one that comes to mind. I'm sure that there were there were many before that, and I didn't even realize that they were polishing me up a little bit. But I Bob Curlin who was who's considered by many to be the the TRUE FATHER OF of teen physicians and and sports medicine. He ran the group Bob Curlin and Frank Jobe is our the Kerlin and job and in the clinic, both passed away now. But when I came to interview out of my residency question he asked me was, so you know, tell me about Tell me a little bit about yourself, you know, what do you feel, you know, is it gives you the purpose to do sports medicine, and he was the one that really without me knowing it, at the time was drawing the line between between purpose and passion for me. And I started to talk about, you know, how great it would be to to do what he's doing and how good it would feel to be able to take care of people that injured injured athletes that were hurt and getting them back to work and and he said, Listen, I'm not asking you about, you know what turns you on. In every day. I'm not asked Think about your passion. In essence, tell me what you feel like your purposes here. And that really made me made me sort of focus on on really the true meaning of what what I was doing where I was going. And when I came to grips with what I was trying to do, what I really made me happy, what I was looking for was a way to take care of people in the, in the best way and the best atmosphere that I could. And for me, it was orthopedics in the active population and trying to help help get them better from from ailments and injuries. So so that was, that's what brought it all into focus for me.

David Novak 30:42

Now, I understand that, that you're the president of the American orthopaedic society for sports medicine, you have 4000 members, tell us about that role and, and how you've how you've led it.

Neal ElAttrache 30:57

So I, in 2019, I was the president, it's when you're when you become elected president of that organization, it's a it's a five year stint in the presidential line. So you really, you really get educated and, and they help you to evolve into that role. For two years before your presidency, then I, when I was president, we had our big annual meeting in Boston in 2019, and it was the largest attended meeting at that point for the society. Not because I was president but because the program that we put together and and I had some amazing presidential speakers. So I what I wanted to do was to create a an experience for the people that we're going to take time out of their life out of their practices, and really come and learn learn not only about Sports, medicine, but learn about giving and, and about avenues to be able to give back a lot of people out there looking for ways to to give back to their fellow man, but are looking for the right avenue or just some potential to do it. And so my presidential speakers were Ken Langone and Stan Druckenmiller, two of the greatest givers that I have ever encountered in my life. And I and I count them among my closest friends. I'm very lucky about that my keynote speaker was was Tom Brady. And I had a wonderful young lady who gave one of the most meaningful speeches. And that was Madison Koshien, she she was one of the Fab Five gold medal Olympic winners from the last Olympics, and gymnast. And she talked about, she gave a riveting speech that to enlighten us on our blind spots that we have and out of that group, a major effort within aos, SM the Society for athletes advocacy. So it brought us to the the forefront with regard to being, you know, official advocates for the for the needs of our athletes. And so, to answer your question, I think that I tried to respond to what I thought were the needs of the members, I wanted to provide them with the things that I thought would, they would take away from, from my time as President, and I would leave the society better. And I would leave the members with a bit more knowledge and enlightenment on what we do. And so it was all member centric. And so if I was successful as a president of the Society it was because I did it for them.

David Novak 33:56

It's funny how that works. You're also on NFL today on CBS to give the status updates on injured players or perspective on injuries. How do you get prepared to go on TV and do enjoy it?

Neal ElAttrache 34:11

I've done some of that less and less over the past few years. Because I happen to be I guess I'm taking care of a lot of these guys. And so I it's not really proper for me then to go on and comment comment about about them. So I've done that a bit less as as my practice has gone on. What I enjoy is I enjoy explaining the types of injuries to the interested public. I think that you know, it's educational, I think that it's helpful for them to learn a little bit about, you know, the kinds of injuries that that occur in an active population and the kinds of injuries that these remarkable athletes are dealing with. And so that's what I did enjoy about it. I just My, my ability to do that has decreased over time because taking care of a lot of these guys that people are interested in,

David Novak 35:07

I, you know, I, I also understand that your, your, your wife was an outstanding surgical nurse How is her knowledge of the business impacted you?

Neal ElAttrache 35:18

You know she is my wife is she can laser right in on what's important. She's not tainted or overcome by Glamour or celebrity or anything. Although she I think she's a beautiful glamorous woman but but that is not not in the way that is superficial or anything she was she was such a great or nurse. I don't think that the you know, those guys that I worked with ever forgave me for taking her off the nursing market, but, but she, she because she worked her tail off she was she can talk about agency, she considered everything that happened in that or her responsibility. And if it wasn't perfect, you know, she was really was was not happy. And so she has helped me over the years, we've been married 28 years, but she's helped me to really focus in and stay focused on what's really important. And not to get caught up in, in a lot of the things that come and go, you know, with with a profession taking care of well known people.

David Novak 36:28

You know, you've had so much success, Neil. Yeah, but almost every leader as an epic fail that they look back on, what would be yours, and how do you deal with it?

Neal ElAttrache 36:39

As a surgeon, I don't remember the, the hundreds and 1000s of of great results. I don't remember necessarily, unless if I really think about if somebody mentions a name to me about people that have been great on the field or whatever, after the after my surgery with them. I remember the I remember the few that didn't turn out like that. And so I I'm trying to avoid considering those failures. If, because I because I know that I did the best that I could, you know, so those the my less than great results are the ones that I remember, maybe the one thing that comes to mind that I really do consider to this point, I've failed that was that I haven't really accomplished you know, I had a big goal in mind that you know, I really wanted to create a safety net for young student athletes that are out there that got injured that didn't have the wherewithal to get the kind of care they needed. And I think I've it's a failure to this point because because I just haven't pushed ahead and been a bulldog about getting that done. So those those are the ones I try not to not to judge myself on.

David Novak 38:03

You know, this conversation has been so fascinating unique for me, it's also been so much fun. Just to hear your thoughts. I want to have some more with you with the lightning round of q&a. All right, let's go okay, what three words best describe you

Neal ElAttrache 38:19

loyal, diligent and positive.

David Novak 38:27

If you could be one person for a day besides you who would it be?

Neal ElAttrache 38:33

I would love I think for a short period of time and then get the hell out of there I would I would love to be the president United States I think that I think that maybe I'm I'd be disillusioned or I'm not aware of how everybody goes in with big ideas what they could do but I think that you know with honesty and and attention to to really what's best for the for the country in the in the people that live here. You know, I would love a crack at it.

David Novak 39:06

What's something about you that few people would know?

Neal ElAttrache 39:11

I'm extremely sensitive.

David Novak 39:13

Do you have any hidden talents?

Neal ElAttrache 39:19

I I have I have a few talents. But I don't think any of them are hidden at this point.

David Novak 39:28

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Neal ElAttrache 39:32

inefficiency.

David Novak 39:34

You What's your favorite operating procedure? The one that you just can't wait to go do

Neal ElAttrache 39:40

you know i? And I know this is not a lightning round but I vacillate and you know I go through periods where I love rotator cuff surgery. I go through periods where I love ligament surgery in the knee and so I have a few wheel houses. You know, whether it's rotate I just I just told to pay Patient that I'm going to take care of another physician, I'm going to operate on his rotator cuff. I said, you know, right now, this is my favorite thing. And so, you know, I, I'm excited about the few things that I do, and it sort of shifts from week to week. Luckily,

David Novak 40:17

I want to wrap this up. Neal Neil, by asking you, you know, what, three bits of advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

Neal ElAttrache 40:30

Know thyself, I think that, you know, you cannot effectively lead other people, unless, if you are keenly aware of your own strengths and weaknesses. And that you, you need to be able to function when you're coming in, in touch with other people to make sure that the way that you're helping to guide others, is not tainted by some unrecognized weaknesses and your strengths, put those to good use when it comes to dealing with with others, so know thyself first. Secondly, except the fact that, that people are human. And, you know, you, you want to be able to have some way to inspire, you create inspiration in people and, and if you're going to be a leader of any sort, I think that you really need to give people something to believe in. And so it, how you conduct yourself, your own life, and how you inspire others, you need to give them something to look to, to want to emulate or to. So, you know, I think that you know, your your own, taking care of your own issues is or is very, very important and, and give them something to really aspire to Don't Don't let your hair down in inappropriate ways in front of the people that you're you're trying to lead and inspire. And, and the last lastly is I'm all about second chances. And you know, if something just doesn't doesn't exactly follow every rule or guideline there's there's a break in it to be to not look at ways to salvage something I you know, I've had some some people who are, are fantastic surgeons and fantastic doctors, and now they are in positions of leadership that along the along the way, there may have been a misstep here or there. And and if if, you know, some things are a little bit too too egregious to be able to overlook, I will admit that but by and large I'm all about second chances and and salvaging the greatness in people and not let not let you know sort of this blind allegiance to a rulebook dominate everything, you know?

David Novak 43:13

Well, speaking of greatness deal, you obviously are a great leader, you're leading the way in your profession, and you care so much, it's it's absolutely inspiring. And just by listening to this conversation, I want to become a better person, I can tell you that, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show.

Neal ElAttrache 43:32

Thank you, David, it's been a real privilege to be with you.

David Novak 43:44

Let me tell you something. When Dr. Neil started talking about the difference between passion and purpose, it really got my mind racing. And it took me back to my days as CEO of yum brands, you know, we had had a lot of years of good success. And we'd really built the business into a global business. And I wanted to really get people excited about what we could become. And in fact, I wanted to have something that got me so excited that I couldn't wait to get out of bed. So I came up with this phrase that we were going to build the defining global company that feeds the world. Now what did I mean by defining it meant that people would best practices for how to recognize people, and that we would have a recognition culture that was renowned, that we would make our brands vibrant everywhere we do business and we would feed the entire world, not just people our food, but also the people who couldn't afford our food. We would tie in with the World Food Program and feed the hungry as well. Now this was something that really excited me it got me out of bed and made me want to go to work and it also inspired our people. So I'm a big believer in purpose because that purpose drove me day in and day out. So I've got to ask you, are you leading with passion or purpose? Remember, passion will fade away, but purpose will keep you engaged as a leader through the ups and downs. Now, here's what I want you to do. And I know you can do it. Take the next 10 minutes and write down why it is that you do what you do. Have you ever thought about why it is that you lead? What's your purpose? Write it down and be thinking about that this week as you make your decisions. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that leaders lead with purpose. Take that into your week. Thanks again for listening to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. By giving you something simple that you can apply to your business. You'll continue to develop into an incredible leader as well. I'll see you next week.

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