[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":18,"_19":20,"_21":-5,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":41,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_45":46,"_47":-5,"_48":49,"_50":51,"_52":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2616/reconsider-5050-ownership","id",2616,"title","Reconsider 50/50 ownership","subtitle","Lessons learned from a failed partnership","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.720\nWhen we started the company, we started with no money, no money whatsoever.\n\n2\n00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:09.360\nI had a few thousand dollars life savings in the bank.\n\n3\n00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:13.560\nI got a credit card advance, but we had no money.\n\n4\n00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:18.800\nHe actually had some business school debt that we needed to take care of.\n\n5\n00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.560\nThe bottom line is, when did I realize it was a problem?\n\n6\n00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:26.710\nI think very early on when we were in that NYU business school dorm room, just\n\n7\n00:00:26.710 --> 00:00:27.080\nthought\n\n8\n00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:30.920\nwe don't have money to hire an attorney, to hire an accountant.\n\n9\n00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:34.840\nWe will just file incorporation papers and we'll be on our way.\n\n10\n00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:39.230\nA few years into the company, what happened is he and I were boyfriend and\n\n11\n00:00:39.230 --> 00:00:39.760\ngirlfriend\n\n12\n00:00:39.760 --> 00:00:42.560\nand then we were engaged.\n\n13\n00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.760\nThen we broke up.\n\n14\n00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:48.730\nAt that point, I think I realized we really need this shareholders agreement\n\n15\n00:00:48.730 --> 00:00:49.400\nbecause we\n\n16\n00:00:49.400 --> 00:00:54.790\nneed to clearly define our roles, our responsibilities, how decisions are made,\n\n17\n00:00:54.790 --> 00:00:56.880\ndispute resolution,\n\n18\n00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:02.350\nwhat happens in the event of divorce, death, disability, and if either of us\n\n19\n00:01:02.350 --> 00:01:03.040\nwants to\n\n20\n00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:08.920\nstop working and sell this company and the other doesn't, for example.\n\n21\n00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:13.310\nI knew we needed this for a lot of reasons, not to mention we couldn't agree\n\n22\n00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:15.520\nconstantly.\n\n23\n00:01:15.520 --> 00:01:17.160\nWe fought.\n\n24\n00:01:17.160 --> 00:01:21.280\nThis happened about five or six years into it.\n\n25\n00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:25.770\nI will say we did bring in attorneys at that point, spent the day with them and\n\n26\n00:01:25.770 --> 00:01:26.360\nthen could\n\n27\n00:01:26.360 --> 00:01:28.520\nnot agree on a shareholders agreement.\n\n28\n00:01:28.520 --> 00:01:33.040\nWe just would not both agree to do it.\n\n29\n00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:38.840\nWe went through the whole time together as co-owners, co-CEOs, for all intents\n\n30\n00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:39.760\nand purposes,\n\n31\n00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:47.240\n50/50 owners with no clear way of making decisions and it was a challenge.\n\n32\n00:01:47.240 --> 00:01:53.560\nThen finally, it got to a point where it got really bad and I tried again.\n\n33\n00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:59.040\nWe couldn't agree on one and as a result, I had to pursue litigation.\n\n34\n00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:00.200\nI'll tell you what I did.\n\n35\n00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:04.810\nI actually litigated to get a custodian to be put in charge to resolve deadlock\n\n36\n00:02:04.810 --> 00:02:05.280\nin the\n\n37\n00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.350\nshort term and oversee the sale of the company in the longer term whereby I\n\n38\n00:02:09.350 --> 00:02:10.160\ncould buy him\n\n39\n00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:14.520\nout, he could buy me out or a third party could buy us both out.\n\n40\n00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:19.270\nThe point is when I tell people the lesson learned is you need a shareholders\n\n41\n00:02:19.270 --> 00:02:20.280\nagreement,\n\n42\n00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:24.680\neven if you have almost no money, even if you're broke like we were, you need a\n\n43\n00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:25.240\nproper\n\n44\n00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:26.920\nshareholders agreement.\n\n45\n00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:33.070\nI also recommend you not be 50/50 owners with no clear decision maker, no tie\n\n46\n00:02:33.070 --> 00:02:34.080\nbreaker,\n\n47\n00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:37.680\nbecause it can be very rocky and very challenging.\n\n48\n00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:41.230\nThen finally, if you do have a shareholders agreement, it's important that\n\n49\n00:02:41.230 --> 00:02:41.760\nthere be a\n\n50\n00:02:41.760 --> 00:02:47.850\nnon-compete between you and your partner because that ultimately I couldn't get\n\n51\n00:02:47.850 --> 00:02:48.480\nand that would\n\n52\n00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:52.400\nhave been helpful to have in the end too, just as far as when you're selling\n\n53\n00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.280\nthe company,\n\n54\n00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.920\nthat will increase the valuation of the company.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1696239,"end_time",1871179,"keywords","company, credit card, NYU Business School, accountant, incorporation, shareholder agreement, attorneys, CEO, 50/50 owners, litigation, valuation, dispute resolution","slug","reconsider-5050-ownership","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","SWlcpzT1xS01y3XMGfZ02MFcENbkuW1HtBcgIwmtphIT4","mux_asset_id","QxPD2cbkDQzxi7jsVMuMmbbZXyGq017G7zg0102ni02AsyI","leader_id",150,"episode_id",293,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:55:02.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2616/reconsider-5050-ownership","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":37,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_26":108,"_109":110,"_63":111,"_60":111,"_112":113,"_70":114,"_40":115,"_116":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_45":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_47":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_52":-5},"episode",{"_13":39,"_15":53,"_28":54,"_17":55,"_56":57,"_19":58,"_21":59,"_60":61,"_62":-5,"_63":61,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":-5,"_36":37,"_40":76,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_47":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_52":-5},"og_image_media","Develop a bias toward action","develop-a-bias-toward-action","Learn how a strong bias toward action can help you turn dreams and strategies into real-world success. Get practical advice for building a winning sales team. Plus, one big reason why you may not be hitting your goals.","summary","

There are few things more frustrating than a leader who sets up a bunch of meetings, presents ideas, and talks strategy…

… but then doesn’t know how to motivate everyone to actually get all that stuff done!

Fortunately, our guest today is NOT that kind of leader.

Liz Elting is the former CEO of TransPerfect, a translation solutions company that she started and built into a billion-dollar business.

Today you’re going to hear how she did it. And as you’ll see, a huge part of her success comes from Liz’s strong bias toward action.

She is willing to put in the hard work and long hours. She is incredibly goal-oriented. And best of all, she knows how to motivate a team to go out and operate in the same way.

If you’re feeling stagnant or weighed down by too much bureaucracy, this episode is going to help you be the kind of leader who’s biased toward action – and whose teams are, too.

You’ll also learn:

What to focus on early in a startup if you want to get out of the weeds and scale quickly
A big personnel mistake Liz made early (and how she fixed it)
One big reason you might not be hitting your goals
A key characteristic to look for when you’re hiring for a sales role
Practical sources of new ideas that you’re probably overlooking
Three critical safeguards EVERY business partnership needs

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.670\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.670 --> 00:00:08.440\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.440 --> 00:00:10.600\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:13.910\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:13.910 --> 00:00:14.500\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.500 --> 00:00:18.820\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.820 --> 00:00:21.200\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:21.200 --> 00:00:25.660\nYou know, there are a few things more frustrating than a leader who sets up a\n\n9\n00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:26.760\nbunch of meetings\n\n10\n00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:32.130\nand presents ideas and talks strategy, but then doesn't really know how to\n\n11\n00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:33.320\nmotivate people\n\n12\n00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.120\nso all that stuff actually gets done.\n\n13\n00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:41.260\nIt's actually one of the biggest derailing factors I see in leaders.\n\n14\n00:00:41.260 --> 00:00:45.940\nThey can dream and plan and strategize, but they don't have that urgency and\n\n15\n00:00:45.940 --> 00:00:46.600\naction to\n\n16\n00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.040\ngalvanize their teams and make it happen.\n\n17\n00:00:50.040 --> 00:00:54.200\nFortunately, my guest today is not that kind of leader.\n\n18\n00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.880\nLiz Elting is the former CEO of TransPerfect, which is the language translation\n\n19\n00:00:58.880 --> 00:00:59.400\nsolutions\n\n20\n00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:04.200\ncompany that she built from the ground up into a billion dollar business.\n\n21\n00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:09.200\nToday, you're going to hear how she did it, and you'll see Liz has a strong\n\n22\n00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:10.240\nbias towards\n\n23\n00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:13.680\naction that really drives her success.\n\n24\n00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:17.000\nShe's willing to put in the hard work in long hours.\n\n25\n00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.340\nShe's incredibly goal oriented, and even better, she knows how to motivate a\n\n26\n00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:22.400\nteam to go out\n\n27\n00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:24.960\nand operate in the same way.\n\n28\n00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:28.160\nAnd let me tell you, it is powerful.\n\n29\n00:01:28.160 --> 00:01:32.310\nIf you're feeling stagnant or weighed down by too much bureaucracy, this\n\n30\n00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:33.320\nepisode is going\n\n31\n00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:38.110\nto help you be the kind of leader who gets big things done with a bias towards\n\n32\n00:01:38.110 --> 00:01:38.960\naction.\n\n33\n00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:44.700\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Liz Elting\n\n34\n00:01:44.700 --> 00:01:45.040\n.\n\n35\n00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:54.060\nYou know, Liz, as we get started here, you need to know that I barely pass\n\n36\n00:01:54.060 --> 00:01:55.080\nLatin in\n\n37\n00:01:55.080 --> 00:01:58.760\ncollege, but I'm going to give this a try anyway.\n\n38\n00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:01.560\nQuando Amari Linguas.\n\n39\n00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:05.120\nOh, when did I start loving languages?\n\n40\n00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.120\nYou got it.\n\n41\n00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:07.120\nYou got it.\n\n42\n00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.560\nFor everybody else out there, I guess we should keep this in English.\n\n43\n00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:14.000\nSo tell everybody, when did you fall in love with languages?\n\n44\n00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.280\nYou picked it up.\n\n45\n00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:16.800\nYou know, that's a great question.\n\n46\n00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:17.800\nI love that question.\n\n47\n00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:22.760\nI appreciate that question because, yes, languages have always been my passion.\n\n48\n00:02:22.760 --> 00:02:26.750\nWhen I was eight, my family moved to Portugal, and when we did, I started\n\n49\n00:02:26.750 --> 00:02:28.000\nlearning Portuguese\n\n50\n00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.480\nand French in third grade.\n\n51\n00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:32.920\nAnd right then and there, I realized I loved languages.\n\n52\n00:02:32.920 --> 00:02:37.400\nI loved going to that bakery and ordering the delicious Portuguese bread in\n\n53\n00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:38.240\nPortuguese,\n\n54\n00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:40.360\nand I just loved the whole experience.\n\n55\n00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:47.600\nSo came back to the US, then moved to Toronto when I was 10, and then continued\n\n56\n00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:48.920\nwith French,\n\n57\n00:02:48.920 --> 00:02:53.310\nand then in high school had the opportunity to start studying Latin in Spanish\n\n58\n00:02:53.310 --> 00:02:53.720\nand loved\n\n59\n00:02:53.720 --> 00:02:55.320\nthose languages as well.\n\n60\n00:02:55.320 --> 00:02:57.560\nSo languages became my passion.\n\n61\n00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.200\nI took the four of them.\n\n62\n00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:01.640\nBy the time I graduated from college, and it was, yeah, a dream.\n\n63\n00:03:01.640 --> 00:03:03.320\nI loved languages.\n\n64\n00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:06.920\nAnd I want to get into how you lead and built this billion dollar business from\n\n65\n00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:07.480\nthe ground\n\n66\n00:03:07.480 --> 00:03:09.440\nup, which is something I really admire.\n\n67\n00:03:09.440 --> 00:03:14.440\nI love people who can really start something to make it really work.\n\n68\n00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:17.120\nBut first, let's go back to the beginning.\n\n69\n00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.880\nAnd you touched a little bit on it already, but what's a story from your\n\n70\n00:03:20.880 --> 00:03:21.800\nchildhood that\n\n71\n00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:26.200\nreally sticks out that shaped the kind of leader that you are today?\n\n72\n00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:27.200\nSure.\n\n73\n00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:32.040\nSo growing up, I had some interesting times.\n\n74\n00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:36.530\nAnd I remember one was when I was in sixth grade, when I was 12 years old, and\n\n75\n00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:36.960\nI was\n\n76\n00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:37.960\nin music class.\n\n77\n00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:39.520\nThere were about 60 of us in there.\n\n78\n00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.520\nIt was two combined classes.\n\n79\n00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.730\nAnd we were all singing for our teacher, one of my very favorite songs, Joseph\n\n80\n00:03:45.730 --> 00:03:46.200\nand his\n\n81\n00:03:46.200 --> 00:03:47.920\namazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.\n\n82\n00:03:47.920 --> 00:03:50.840\nAnd I was just loving it, having the time of my life.\n\n83\n00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.360\nAnd I thought everything sounded so beautiful.\n\n84\n00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:58.990\nAnd then our music teacher started walking around from person to person, and in\n\n85\n00:03:58.990 --> 00:03:59.400\nfront\n\n86\n00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:01.880\nof each person and stopping.\n\n87\n00:04:01.880 --> 00:04:04.160\nAnd she got to me.\n\n88\n00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:06.280\nAnd I thought, well, this is exciting.\n\n89\n00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:07.280\nAnd she stopped.\n\n90\n00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:09.760\nAnd she said, this is it.\n\n91\n00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:14.200\nAnd I thought, oh, wow, she's going to tell me I can do a solo.\n\n92\n00:04:14.200 --> 00:04:16.360\nAnd she said, this is the problem.\n\n93\n00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:17.440\nYou're off key.\n\n94\n00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:19.080\nYou need to go.\n\n95\n00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:20.720\nWe can't have you in the choir.\n\n96\n00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.440\nSo she basically told me I could not participate.\n\n97\n00:04:23.440 --> 00:04:27.610\nI needed to go downstairs, sit in a classroom, buy myself for the rest of the\n\n98\n00:04:27.610 --> 00:04:28.440\nsemester while\n\n99\n00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:32.400\neveryone else, the other 59 or so people got to stay.\n\n100\n00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:34.600\nAnd it was so traumatic.\n\n101\n00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:38.200\nAnd until then, I thought I was a pretty good singer, clearly not.\n\n102\n00:04:38.200 --> 00:04:42.000\nSo I think from that, I realized, wow, how could you do that?\n\n103\n00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.000\nThat was pretty awful.\n\n104\n00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.520\nAnd I didn't like being called out in public.\n\n105\n00:04:45.520 --> 00:04:46.520\nIt was traumatic.\n\n106\n00:04:46.520 --> 00:04:47.960\nIt was hard.\n\n107\n00:04:47.960 --> 00:04:52.290\nAnd I also felt like a bit of an underdog then, but I also thought, OK, I'm not\n\n108\n00:04:52.290 --> 00:04:52.800\ngoing\n\n109\n00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:57.840\nto do that to people if I'm in that situation, because that's really hard.\n\n110\n00:04:57.840 --> 00:05:01.800\nAnd no one wants to be given such negative feedback in public.\n\n111\n00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:06.280\nSo that was one story that formed my style as a leader.\n\n112\n00:05:06.280 --> 00:05:12.200\nBut the other one was when I was 14, I was in Vermont walking with my cousin\n\n113\n00:05:12.200 --> 00:05:12.920\nacross the\n\n114\n00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:14.840\nstreet in Manchester, Vermont.\n\n115\n00:05:14.840 --> 00:05:16.680\nAnd I got hit by a car.\n\n116\n00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:18.240\nIt felt like out of nowhere.\n\n117\n00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:23.520\nAnd I basically flew in the air, landed on my head, had a fractured skull, was\n\n118\n00:05:23.520 --> 00:05:24.040\nrushed\n\n119\n00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:28.280\nto the hospital in Albany, because it was a very bad situation.\n\n120\n00:05:28.280 --> 00:05:30.600\nAnd my parents then ended up getting there.\n\n121\n00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:35.480\nTurns out there was another kid, approximately my age, a boy, who had a\n\n122\n00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:37.040\nfracture skull, similar\n\n123\n00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:38.040\ninjury is mine.\n\n124\n00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.480\nWe were both in a coma for about three days.\n\n125\n00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.800\nAnd I remember my parents were talking to the boys' parents and they said, \"Oh\n\n126\n00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:45.120\nboy,\n\n127\n00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:46.880\nhopefully they'll make it.\"\n\n128\n00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:48.440\nAnd my parents were even, they were praying.\n\n129\n00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:51.380\nThey were saying, \"OK, well, if she can't walk for the rest of her life, that's\n\n130\n00:05:51.380 --> 00:05:51.680\nOK.\n\n131\n00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.960\nAs long as she can talk, as long as she doesn't have severe brain damage.\"\n\n132\n00:05:54.960 --> 00:05:58.440\nAnyway, after three days, I woke up.\n\n133\n00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:03.600\nThe boy didn't and I realized, \"Wow, I was the lucky one.\n\n134\n00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:08.760\nI need to do something important in life and I need to make a difference.\n\n135\n00:06:08.760 --> 00:06:10.680\nAt some point in my life, I need to go out.\n\n136\n00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:11.680\nI need to help people.\n\n137\n00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:14.720\nI need to make the world a better place because I'm here for a reason.\"\n\n138\n00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:15.720\nThat's great.\n\n139\n00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:16.720\nI love that.\n\n140\n00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.640\nAnd you certainly had a great takeaway from it, which is very powerful.\n\n141\n00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:26.290\nAnd I understand that your father gave you some great advice early on that\n\n142\n00:06:26.290 --> 00:06:27.240\nultimately\n\n143\n00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.920\nled to you starting your business with languages.\n\n144\n00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:32.520\nWhat did he tell you?\n\n145\n00:06:32.520 --> 00:06:34.080\nIt was sophomore year.\n\n146\n00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:37.560\nIt was the night before I needed to choose my major.\n\n147\n00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.880\nAnd I called him up and I said, \"Dad, I don't know what to do because I love my\n\n148\n00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:41.320\nlanguage\n\n149\n00:06:41.320 --> 00:06:46.640\ncourses, but what on earth am I going to do with a language major?\"\n\n150\n00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:47.960\nI want to have a good career.\n\n151\n00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:49.400\nI know I need to be independent.\n\n152\n00:06:49.400 --> 00:06:51.400\nAnd he said, \"Don't worry about it.\"\n\n153\n00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:56.120\nHe said, \"Pursue what you love and the rest will take care of itself.\"\n\n154\n00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:57.760\nAnd so I chose languages.\n\n155\n00:06:57.760 --> 00:06:59.560\nI majored in modern languages.\n\n156\n00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.690\nAnd boy was I glad he told me that because I felt like he gave me permission to\n\n157\n00:07:03.690 --> 00:07:04.160\npursue\n\n158\n00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:06.840\nmy passion and that was wonderful.\n\n159\n00:07:06.840 --> 00:07:08.280\nAbsolutely.\n\n160\n00:07:08.280 --> 00:07:13.390\nAnd when did you first experience that intersection of your passion, which was\n\n161\n00:07:13.390 --> 00:07:14.400\nlanguage and a\n\n162\n00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:15.880\ncareer?\n\n163\n00:07:15.880 --> 00:07:20.460\nShortly after graduating from college, I first did an internship in Venezuela\n\n164\n00:07:20.460 --> 00:07:20.600\nand then I\n\n165\n00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.240\ncame back from Caracas, Venezuela to New York and I was able to get a job at\n\n166\n00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:26.800\nwhat,\n\n167\n00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.920\nat the time, was the world's largest translation company.\n\n168\n00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:35.280\nIt was about 90 people and I was so excited because I saw, I walked in the door\n\n169\n00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:36.200\n, I remember\n\n170\n00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:40.710\nat that company for my interview and I saw there was a Macintosh computer on\n\n171\n00:07:40.710 --> 00:07:41.440\nevery desk\n\n172\n00:07:41.440 --> 00:07:45.050\nand what they delivered was language services and I thought, \"Wow, this is\n\n173\n00:07:45.050 --> 00:07:46.040\nbusiness combined\n\n174\n00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:47.120\nwith language.\"\n\n175\n00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.720\nAnd I said to them, \"I'd love a job in sales.\n\n176\n00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:51.120\nDo you have anything?\"\n\n177\n00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.000\nThey said, \"No, but perhaps you could do production.\"\n\n178\n00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:56.000\nAnd I said, \"Okay.\"\n\n179\n00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.200\nAnd if that works out, could I potentially move into sales after?\n\n180\n00:07:59.200 --> 00:08:01.440\nAnd they said, \"Yes, maybe you can.\"\n\n181\n00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:06.700\nSo I had the opportunity to work at this wonderful translation company where I\n\n182\n00:08:06.700 --> 00:08:07.200\nlearned\n\n183\n00:08:07.200 --> 00:08:08.200\nthe business.\n\n184\n00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:09.200\nI loved it.\n\n185\n00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:10.520\nI loved the culture.\n\n186\n00:08:10.520 --> 00:08:15.440\nI loved what we were doing for clients, but I thought it could be done better.\n\n187\n00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:20.530\nI really felt like I saw a real gap between what was needed in the industry and\n\n188\n00:08:20.530 --> 00:08:20.880\nwhat we\n\n189\n00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:22.200\nwere providing.\n\n190\n00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:27.750\nI felt like there could be a real one-stop shop with top of the line service,\n\n191\n00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:28.360\ntop of the\n\n192\n00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:32.720\nline quality and at the time that was really what clients needed.\n\n193\n00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.330\nBack then, it was enough to be a translation company and they were getting by,\n\n194\n00:08:36.330 --> 00:08:36.680\nbut I thought\n\n195\n00:08:36.680 --> 00:08:37.920\nit could be done better.\n\n196\n00:08:37.920 --> 00:08:42.770\nWhen you thought about how you could really differentiate yourself, what was\n\n197\n00:08:42.770 --> 00:08:43.360\nthe idea\n\n198\n00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.160\nyou took to market and really ran with?\n\n199\n00:08:46.160 --> 00:08:50.040\nWell, I knew there was a need for this service.\n\n200\n00:08:50.040 --> 00:08:54.370\nI actually, at the time, there were 10,000 translation companies out there, but\n\n201\n00:08:54.370 --> 00:08:54.600\nthey were\n\n202\n00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:55.840\nall moms and pops.\n\n203\n00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.420\nThey were between two and five people and they were started and run by transl\n\n204\n00:08:59.420 --> 00:08:59.880\nators,\n\n205\n00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:05.080\nvery talented individuals with a very high level of language knowledge.\n\n206\n00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:07.640\nBut I didn't have that level of language knowledge.\n\n207\n00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:12.940\nInstead, the idea was, \"Okay, I as a business person with an MBA could really\n\n208\n00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:13.600\ntake the\n\n209\n00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.610\ncompany and scale it by spoiling the client with the best service out there, by\n\n210\n00:09:18.610 --> 00:09:19.440\ndelivering\n\n211\n00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:25.480\nsuperior quality, by having an office in every major city around the world, and\n\n212\n00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:26.040\nby being\n\n213\n00:09:26.040 --> 00:09:27.600\na real one-stop shop.\"\n\n214\n00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.520\nSo those were the differentiators.\n\n215\n00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:32.160\nReally to create the world's premier language solutions company.\n\n216\n00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:39.120\nYou have 10,000 competitors and most of them have less than five employees.\n\n217\n00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:46.640\nAnd yet you had this dream to scale this language business, which is really\n\n218\n00:09:46.640 --> 00:09:47.160\namazing.\n\n219\n00:09:47.160 --> 00:09:51.170\nHow did you pull yourself out of the weeds when you first started so that you\n\n220\n00:09:51.170 --> 00:09:51.960\ncould really\n\n221\n00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:53.800\nbuild scale?\n\n222\n00:09:53.800 --> 00:09:57.300\nI think that had to be a big task because you don't have a lot of\n\n223\n00:09:57.300 --> 00:09:58.520\ninfrastructure at the\n\n224\n00:09:58.520 --> 00:09:59.520\nbeginning.\n\n225\n00:09:59.520 --> 00:10:01.480\nYou don't have that many clients.\n\n226\n00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:05.440\nHow did you pull yourself out of the weeds and really start scaling something?\n\n227\n00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:10.660\nI think it's so important as an entrepreneur to, even though in the beginning,\n\n228\n00:10:10.660 --> 00:10:11.320\nall I focused\n\n229\n00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:14.990\non and all we focused on was selling, selling, selling 300 phone calls a day,\n\n230\n00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:15.960\n300 letters\n\n231\n00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:21.360\na day, and not letting ourselves up for air unless we did that.\n\n232\n00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.200\nWe were the only salespeople, my partner and I.\n\n233\n00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:25.200\nSo that was critical.\n\n234\n00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.800\nBut the question is, how do you get to the next level?\n\n235\n00:10:27.800 --> 00:10:34.100\nI think the key thing is to not be the company's only salesperson or even most\n\n236\n00:10:34.100 --> 00:10:35.400\nimportant sales\n\n237\n00:10:35.400 --> 00:10:36.400\nperson.\n\n238\n00:10:36.400 --> 00:10:40.550\nI guess ultimately the founder and CEO could potentially always be the most\n\n239\n00:10:40.550 --> 00:10:41.480\nimportant.\n\n240\n00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.480\nBut by that, I mean, as far as how they spend their time.\n\n241\n00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:52.590\nI think it was so important that we quickly built a top tier world class sales\n\n242\n00:10:52.590 --> 00:10:54.200\norganization.\n\n243\n00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:59.400\nAnd so every bit of profit that came in really went toward hiring these people\n\n244\n00:10:59.400 --> 00:11:00.240\nand training\n\n245\n00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:07.060\nthem, developing them and retaining them so that they were our connection with\n\n246\n00:11:07.060 --> 00:11:07.840\nthe clients\n\n247\n00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:09.160\nover time.\n\n248\n00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:13.390\nAnd I think that was so critical because ultimately we did have the largest\n\n249\n00:11:13.390 --> 00:11:14.120\nsales team\n\n250\n00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:15.120\nin the industry.\n\n251\n00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:19.520\nBut that was by design over 600 full time salespeople.\n\n252\n00:11:19.520 --> 00:11:22.840\nAnd it was necessary because had we not really focused on that?\n\n253\n00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:25.240\nWe couldn't have built the company.\n\n254\n00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.000\nIt was all about hiring the salespeople so we could work on the business rather\n\n255\n00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:29.320\nthan\n\n256\n00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:30.320\nin the business.\n\n257\n00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:35.010\nGive us a snapshot of TransPerfect and the business that is today, the business\n\n258\n00:11:35.010 --> 00:11:35.320\nthat\n\n259\n00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:36.320\nyou developed.\n\n260\n00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:40.160\nWell, I did sell it five years ago.\n\n261\n00:11:40.160 --> 00:11:44.900\nBut when we started the company and out of an NYU dorm room and then when I\n\n262\n00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:45.680\nsold, the\n\n263\n00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:50.600\ngoal had been to become the world's largest with offices around the world, a\n\n264\n00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:51.400\nreal one-stop\n\n265\n00:11:51.400 --> 00:11:52.400\nshop.\n\n266\n00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:56.600\nIn 2017, when I sold, we finally accomplished that goal.\n\n267\n00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.870\nWe became the world's largest language solutions company with offices in over\n\n268\n00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:03.320\n100 cities around\n\n269\n00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:09.650\nthe world and the highest revenue of any company out there and over 5,000 full\n\n270\n00:12:09.650 --> 00:12:11.200\ntime employees.\n\n271\n00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:12.200\nAnd that was the company.\n\n272\n00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:16.630\nAnd basically any foreign language related service we did, also litigation\n\n273\n00:12:16.630 --> 00:12:18.120\nsupport services,\n\n274\n00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:21.360\nstaffing solutions, technology solutions.\n\n275\n00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:22.360\nThat was the company.\n\n276\n00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:27.530\nBasically, anything a client needed in a foreign language or a technology\n\n277\n00:12:27.530 --> 00:12:28.680\nsolution in order\n\n278\n00:12:28.680 --> 00:12:31.160\nto conduct global business.\n\n279\n00:12:31.160 --> 00:12:34.040\nWhat was the base business you had when you first started out?\n\n280\n00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:37.920\nAnd then what was the next big new area you went into?\n\n281\n00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:41.560\nSo really, the base business was document translation.\n\n282\n00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:45.320\nBut the plan was to do anything in a foreign language that a company needed.\n\n283\n00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.400\nThat was the plan from day one.\n\n284\n00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:51.940\nAnd then as time went on, as we spoke to our clients, we realized and our\n\n285\n00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:52.880\nemployees, we\n\n286\n00:12:52.880 --> 00:12:55.400\ngot a lot of ideas for how to grow.\n\n287\n00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:58.430\nAnd that was starting related lines of business, like some of the ones I\n\n288\n00:12:58.430 --> 00:12:59.120\nmentioned.\n\n289\n00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:03.260\nBut initially, document translation and then anything in a foreign language was\n\n290\n00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:03.760\nreally the\n\n291\n00:13:03.760 --> 00:13:08.120\ncore.\n\n292\n00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:12.280\nHave you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each\n\n293\n00:13:12.280 --> 00:13:12.800\nweek?\n\n294\n00:13:12.800 --> 00:13:16.620\nOr have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions\n\n295\n00:13:16.620 --> 00:13:17.360\nthat he asked\n\n296\n00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:18.360\nhis guests?\n\n297\n00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:19.920\nWell, I do.\n\n298\n00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:22.000\nAnd I know a lot of you do too.\n\n299\n00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:23.360\nMy name is Koolah Callahan.\n\n300\n00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.830\nAnd together with David, I host the three more questions podcasts that airs\n\n301\n00:13:27.830 --> 00:13:28.840\nevery Monday.\n\n302\n00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:30.920\nThese episodes are just about 15 minutes.\n\n303\n00:13:30.920 --> 00:13:35.570\nAnd in them, I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of\n\n304\n00:13:35.570 --> 00:13:36.360\nhis episode\n\n305\n00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.360\nwith his guests.\n\n306\n00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.800\nDavid shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading young\n\n307\n00:13:41.800 --> 00:13:42.360\nbrands.\n\n308\n00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.840\nAnd all of his answers are super practical and inspiring.\n\n309\n00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.910\nThink this great insight, David Sherrod, and one of our most recent three more\n\n310\n00:13:48.910 --> 00:13:49.400\nquestions\n\n311\n00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:50.400\nepisodes.\n\n312\n00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:57.080\nYou know, so many ideas get killed before they've had any kind of opportunity\n\n313\n00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:58.200\nto develop.\n\n314\n00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:02.560\nSo let people get their ideas out and build on them.\n\n315\n00:14:02.560 --> 00:14:06.870\nBut if you start out by judging everything that comes out and say, \"Nah, that\n\n316\n00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:07.320\nwon't\n\n317\n00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:08.320\nwork.\n\n318\n00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:09.320\nThat will work.\"\n\n319\n00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.400\nYou just squash creativity.\n\n320\n00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:13.720\nJust suspend judgment.\n\n321\n00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.320\nLet things play out.\n\n322\n00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.310\nGet the three more questions podcasts in your feed each Monday and dive even\n\n323\n00:14:20.310 --> 00:14:21.160\ndeeper into\n\n324\n00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:23.040\nthe episodes you know and love.\n\n325\n00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:34.320\nJust subscribe to How Leaders Lead wherever you get your podcasts.\n\n326\n00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.440\nYou grew your team to over 5,000 employees.\n\n327\n00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:44.040\nWe had over 100 offices worldwide, $1.1 billion in revenue.\n\n328\n00:14:44.040 --> 00:14:48.020\nHow did you develop the leadership skills so that the business didn't pass you\n\n329\n00:14:48.020 --> 00:14:48.440\nby?\n\n330\n00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:54.390\nSo it was a lot of learning by doing and making plenty, plenty of mistakes\n\n331\n00:14:54.390 --> 00:14:56.640\nalong the way.\n\n332\n00:14:56.640 --> 00:15:00.040\nBecause you know, I had had virtually no training.\n\n333\n00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:04.040\nI had worked at the other translation company for three years, but I had had\n\n334\n00:15:04.040 --> 00:15:04.760\nvery little\n\n335\n00:15:04.760 --> 00:15:05.760\nexperience there.\n\n336\n00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:09.450\nAnd I was really making mistakes and learning from them and then making sure I\n\n337\n00:15:09.450 --> 00:15:09.960\ndidn't do\n\n338\n00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:11.160\nthem again.\n\n339\n00:15:11.160 --> 00:15:15.370\nWhat's one area of leadership, Liz, that you felt especially challenged in as\n\n340\n00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:15.760\nyou were\n\n341\n00:15:15.760 --> 00:15:17.920\nscaling the business?\n\n342\n00:15:17.920 --> 00:15:22.060\nIn the early days, as I mentioned, we were working so hard to sell, sell, sell\n\n343\n00:15:22.060 --> 00:15:22.360\nso that\n\n344\n00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.520\nwe could get the money to hire people and grow.\n\n345\n00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:27.760\nSo we would do that.\n\n346\n00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:32.670\nAnd then we had enough work where we needed to hire people to get the work done\n\n347\n00:15:32.670 --> 00:15:32.800\n.\n\n348\n00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:36.320\nAnd we needed people so badly that we would bring people in.\n\n349\n00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:41.480\nAnd sometimes we made mistakes on what we looked for in a person we hired.\n\n350\n00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:46.680\nThat was one thing, but the other big thing was we in the early days asked too\n\n351\n00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:47.120\nmuch of\n\n352\n00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.400\nour employees.\n\n353\n00:15:48.400 --> 00:15:51.940\nWe had so much work because we had worked so hard to get that work and our\n\n354\n00:15:51.940 --> 00:15:52.440\nemployees\n\n355\n00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.240\nhad worked so hard to get that work.\n\n356\n00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.680\nBut then they were working crazy hours.\n\n357\n00:15:56.680 --> 00:15:59.120\nThey were pulling all night after all night.\n\n358\n00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.240\nAnd we needed to have them do that to get the work done.\n\n359\n00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.600\nWe couldn't bring in the people fast enough, but that's no good.\n\n360\n00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.960\nWe thought, okay, we'll just give them a bonus.\n\n361\n00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:10.400\nWe'll just give them a raise.\n\n362\n00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:12.760\nBut over time, of course, that doesn't work.\n\n363\n00:16:12.760 --> 00:16:14.560\nThey need their life.\n\n364\n00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:15.560\nThey will be miserable.\n\n365\n00:16:15.560 --> 00:16:16.600\nThey will burn out.\n\n366\n00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:21.500\nAnd we lost a lot of people in the early days because we expected too much and\n\n367\n00:16:21.500 --> 00:16:22.000\nwe couldn't\n\n368\n00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.360\njust take care of it with paying a bonus.\n\n369\n00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.000\nSo that was a big mistake we learned.\n\n370\n00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.280\nAnd through that, we learned things like, okay, we need to set it up so we have\n\n371\n00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:30.880\ndifferent\n\n372\n00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:32.040\nshifts.\n\n373\n00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:34.520\nAnd after that, we added shifts within a time zone.\n\n374\n00:16:34.520 --> 00:16:39.270\nFor example, in New York, where our headquarters is, we also made it so in our\n\n375\n00:16:39.270 --> 00:16:40.160\nother offices\n\n376\n00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:44.480\naround the world, they were covering our second shifts and our third shifts.\n\n377\n00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:49.610\nSo when the work day was done in New York, then it could go to another time\n\n378\n00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:51.000\nzone in Hawaii\n\n379\n00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.480\nor wherever, and so on, and then Tokyo and so on.\n\n380\n00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:59.440\nSo we found ways around it, but initially, we had a lot of turnover.\n\n381\n00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.640\nEvery leader has to go through those learnings that really impact themselves\n\n382\n00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:04.720\nand other people.\n\n383\n00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:06.320\nAnd that's a great example.\n\n384\n00:17:06.320 --> 00:17:10.480\nAnd you say that your business was all about sales at the beginning.\n\n385\n00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.160\nI mean, you were sales, sales, sales.\n\n386\n00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:17.440\nTell us about Jack Daly and what you learned from him.\n\n387\n00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.800\nYes, and Jack Daly is terrific.\n\n388\n00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:24.080\nOne thing I did early on a couple of years into the business is I joined\n\n389\n00:17:24.080 --> 00:17:25.080\nsomething called\n\n390\n00:17:25.080 --> 00:17:30.200\nWaiyo, a young entrepreneurs organization, and was very excited to do that.\n\n391\n00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:35.700\nAnd one of the first programs that they had, the first lectures was with Jack\n\n392\n00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:36.400\nDaly.\n\n393\n00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:40.480\nAnd Jack Daly's lecture was about how to manage sales managers.\n\n394\n00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.000\nAnd I went to it.\n\n395\n00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.120\nThis was a few years into the business, and we were the sales managers.\n\n396\n00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:48.450\nYou know, I and my partner were the sales managers, but I thought, I'll go\n\n397\n00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:48.880\nlisten to\n\n398\n00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:54.430\nJack, and he just gave all his recommended ideas, advice on how to manage sales\n\n399\n00:17:54.430 --> 00:17:55.480\nmanagers.\n\n400\n00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:58.040\nSo from that, I thought, okay, we better get some sales managers in place.\n\n401\n00:17:58.040 --> 00:18:01.120\nWe got a really higher than this world class sales team.\n\n402\n00:18:01.120 --> 00:18:04.040\nSo he gave me amazing ideas.\n\n403\n00:18:04.040 --> 00:18:05.200\nI was wowed by him.\n\n404\n00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.640\nAnd what I started doing after that is I brought him into our company.\n\n405\n00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:14.740\nAnd we started bringing him in when we had about five salespeople, and he would\n\n406\n00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:14.960\nspeak\n\n407\n00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:20.040\nto them all together in the morning, and all of us, and kind of give his ideas.\n\n408\n00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:23.550\nAnd then in the afternoon, he would meet with each of them one to one and talk\n\n409\n00:18:23.550 --> 00:18:24.120\nto them about\n\n410\n00:18:24.120 --> 00:18:25.680\ntheir goals and how they were going to get there.\n\n411\n00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:26.680\nAnd he was wonderful.\n\n412\n00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:31.490\nAnd he came back once every year or two for the entire 25 plus years I was with\n\n413\n00:18:31.490 --> 00:18:32.640\nmy company\n\n414\n00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.800\nuntil we had over 600 salespeople.\n\n415\n00:18:34.800 --> 00:18:40.280\nAt the end, he was just jumping on tables, motivating the 600 plus salespeople\n\n416\n00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:41.080\nall together.\n\n417\n00:18:41.080 --> 00:18:43.800\nBut he started when we were about five salespeople.\n\n418\n00:18:43.800 --> 00:18:45.080\nSo he was wonderful.\n\n419\n00:18:45.080 --> 00:18:48.560\nWhat did he teach you about yourself that made you a better salesperson?\n\n420\n00:18:48.560 --> 00:18:53.560\nYou know, he taught us a lot of things that weren't even only related to sales.\n\n421\n00:18:53.560 --> 00:18:58.050\nLike, for example, I can think of some of his lessons which were higher slowly,\n\n422\n00:18:58.050 --> 00:18:58.200\nfire\n\n423\n00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:59.280\nquickly.\n\n424\n00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:01.280\nThat was one of his sayings.\n\n425\n00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:06.360\nAnother was, you know, don't have a big party when people go away from your\n\n426\n00:19:06.360 --> 00:19:06.880\ncompany when\n\n427\n00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.880\nthey quit.\n\n428\n00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:09.440\nHave the big party when they're coming in.\n\n429\n00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.440\nSo some of these ideas didn't just relate to sales.\n\n430\n00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:14.240\nI'm just thinking back.\n\n431\n00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:19.560\nBut I mean, I think it was just be really tough on yourself with your goals.\n\n432\n00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:22.640\nMake sure you have your goals down on paper.\n\n433\n00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:27.000\nAnd that's daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals, quarterly goals, annual\n\n434\n00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:27.640\ngoals.\n\n435\n00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.920\nMake sure you have them on paper.\n\n436\n00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:34.430\nAnd then make sure you then go back from there and figure out whatever you need\n\n437\n00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:35.080\nto do to\n\n438\n00:19:35.080 --> 00:19:36.320\ndeliver them.\n\n439\n00:19:36.320 --> 00:19:40.130\nAnd then the other piece of it that he shared was make sure you share those\n\n440\n00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:41.840\ngoals with people.\n\n441\n00:19:41.840 --> 00:19:43.600\nYou don't just put them down for yourself.\n\n442\n00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:47.430\nYou make sure you announce them to your internal board or, you know, your board\n\n443\n00:19:47.430 --> 00:19:48.440\nof directors,\n\n444\n00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:49.600\nwhatever it is.\n\n445\n00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:50.920\nAnd that was very valuable.\n\n446\n00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:57.240\nI've read where you're a big believer in these goals, but goals with deadlines.\n\n447\n00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:58.320\nOh, yes.\n\n448\n00:19:58.320 --> 00:20:01.440\nSo how did you implement that in your company?\n\n449\n00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.040\nHow did you drive that deep in the organization?\n\n450\n00:20:04.040 --> 00:20:05.480\nOh, absolutely.\n\n451\n00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:11.520\nAnd I because I think that really is the key or was the key for me.\n\n452\n00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:13.760\nGrowing up with goals with the deadline.\n\n453\n00:20:13.760 --> 00:20:17.940\nAnd I think that starts with when I started as a salesperson or when our sales\n\n454\n00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:19.400\npeople started,\n\n455\n00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:24.140\njust as far as the actions we need to take, like making 300 phone calls a day,\n\n456\n00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.400\nsending\n\n457\n00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.600\nout 300 letters.\n\n458\n00:20:25.600 --> 00:20:28.940\nAnd now maybe those letters would be emails or something like that, but not\n\n459\n00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:29.560\nletting the\n\n460\n00:20:29.560 --> 00:20:36.040\nday pass without requiring ourselves to do them, being tough on ourselves and,\n\n461\n00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:36.280\nyou know,\n\n462\n00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:41.390\ngiving ourselves little rewards when we do 25 or 50 or 100, letting ourselves\n\n463\n00:20:41.390 --> 00:20:41.760\nget up\n\n464\n00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:46.460\nfor a break, up for a sandwich, up for a five minute walk, but not letting the\n\n465\n00:20:46.460 --> 00:20:47.600\nday pass\n\n466\n00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:49.640\nwithout doing those things.\n\n467\n00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:53.280\nSo I think that's on a daily basis, you know, as far as other goals with\n\n468\n00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:54.360\ndeadlines on a\n\n469\n00:20:54.360 --> 00:20:59.200\nbig higher level, basically with the goal being to open an office in every\n\n470\n00:20:59.200 --> 00:20:59.960\nmajor city\n\n471\n00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:01.280\naround the world.\n\n472\n00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:06.820\nI said, okay, our first external offices need to be in these cities and\n\n473\n00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:08.040\nbasically put down\n\n474\n00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:09.040\non paper.\n\n475\n00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:12.400\nOkay, in Q1, we'll do San Francisco.\n\n476\n00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:14.800\nQ2 will open Atlanta.\n\n477\n00:21:14.800 --> 00:21:20.640\nQ3 Washington, D.C., Q4 Chicago, and then held ourselves to those goals.\n\n478\n00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.840\nAnd you know, they weren't the hardest things in the world because we really\n\n479\n00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:24.400\nstarted with\n\n480\n00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.560\none person in each office.\n\n481\n00:21:26.560 --> 00:21:29.940\nAnd then of course, those people had goals where they had to sell a certain\n\n482\n00:21:29.940 --> 00:21:30.520\namount.\n\n483\n00:21:30.520 --> 00:21:32.440\nAnd as soon as they did, we could add people.\n\n484\n00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.440\nAnd then when those two sold a certain amount, we could add people and so on\n\n485\n00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:37.240\nand so on, but\n\n486\n00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.840\nreally sticking to the goals.\n\n487\n00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:44.450\nAnd you know, as I said, on a daily level, on an individual basis, and then as\n\n488\n00:21:44.450 --> 00:21:44.840\nfar as\n\n489\n00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:49.530\nthe offices, the company is added and basically for every person adding to\n\n490\n00:21:49.530 --> 00:21:50.520\ntheir team.\n\n491\n00:21:50.520 --> 00:21:55.240\nWhat do you think was the most important thing you did to build a world-class\n\n492\n00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.400\nsales organization?\n\n493\n00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:03.130\nSo basically finding people who were very entrepreneurial and aligning their\n\n494\n00:22:03.130 --> 00:22:03.720\nincentives\n\n495\n00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:04.840\nwith the company.\n\n496\n00:22:04.840 --> 00:22:07.120\nSo when the company did well, they did well.\n\n497\n00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:09.920\nOr when their office did well, they did well.\n\n498\n00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:15.150\nAnd basically, as far as how that worked is they would come in and as far as\n\n499\n00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:16.360\ncompensation,\n\n500\n00:22:16.360 --> 00:22:20.440\nthey might make a little less than they would in a regular job.\n\n501\n00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:25.930\nBut then if they sold and were successful and really built an office or built a\n\n502\n00:22:25.930 --> 00:22:26.520\nteam,\n\n503\n00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:31.130\nthey would make more money than they could anywhere else in the industry and\n\n504\n00:22:31.130 --> 00:22:31.440\nperhaps\n\n505\n00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.000\nanywhere else in a company.\n\n506\n00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.080\nSo that from a compensation standpoint was very important.\n\n507\n00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:40.280\nBut these people, they were entrepreneurial.\n\n508\n00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:44.250\nThey were very driven by the idea of building their own organization within the\n\n509\n00:22:44.250 --> 00:22:44.920\ncompany.\n\n510\n00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.200\nSo I think that was very important.\n\n511\n00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:53.170\nI think the way we paid people was very valuable, a commission that never sun\n\n512\n00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:54.640\nsets, so that\n\n513\n00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.000\nyou're 10 of a client they're making the same amount as they would in year one.\n\n514\n00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:01.360\nI think that's very important.\n\n515\n00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:06.240\nI think really hiring the best, most motivated people and then getting out of\n\n516\n00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:06.880\ntheir way.\n\n517\n00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.220\nLetting them do that's so, so important, not micromanaging because so many of\n\n518\n00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:11.640\nthem,\n\n519\n00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.560\nthey could do it so much better than I could.\n\n520\n00:23:14.560 --> 00:23:18.240\nAnd that's the whole concept of hiring people who are smarter than you are.\n\n521\n00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:21.600\nAnd it's a little cliche, but boy, is it true, right?\n\n522\n00:23:21.600 --> 00:23:24.520\nI mean, that was not that hard for me.\n\n523\n00:23:24.520 --> 00:23:29.520\nI could find people who were smarter than I was and better.\n\n524\n00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:34.360\nHow did you develop that security to hire people smarter, better than you?\n\n525\n00:23:34.360 --> 00:23:38.760\nI mean, was it easy for you to get out of the way?\n\n526\n00:23:38.760 --> 00:23:43.860\nYes, because I think I know what I'm better at and I know what things I'm not\n\n527\n00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:44.440\nso good\n\n528\n00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.600\nat, there are plenty of other things to do at the company, right?\n\n529\n00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:49.880\nSo that wasn't a problem for me at all.\n\n530\n00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:54.380\nAnd I think the whole idea is with hiring, it's just making sure you hire\n\n531\n00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:55.080\npeople who\n\n532\n00:23:55.080 --> 00:23:56.080\nimpress you.\n\n533\n00:23:56.080 --> 00:24:00.800\nWhen they walk in the interview, they may be young just out of college, but you\n\n534\n00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:01.200\ncan tell\n\n535\n00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.040\nwhen they're impressive and there are so many that are impressive.\n\n536\n00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:06.920\nAnd if they are, then why would you not want them there?\n\n537\n00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:11.300\nIf you can envision them there in five years and 10 years, leading a team of\n\n538\n00:24:11.300 --> 00:24:12.480\n100, 200\n\n539\n00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.200\npeople, that's an opportunity.\n\n540\n00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:18.480\nAnd I was just so excited to have that opportunity and to go for it.\n\n541\n00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:23.230\nYou started out as basically the chief sales officer, you're pounding, knocking\n\n542\n00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:23.960\non doors,\n\n543\n00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.080\nsending emails, the business grows and grows.\n\n544\n00:24:27.080 --> 00:24:33.340\nHow did you step up and carve out the time to think about the new growth\n\n545\n00:24:33.340 --> 00:24:34.640\nvehicles and\n\n546\n00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.160\nthe vision for the company that would take you down new paths?\n\n547\n00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:43.790\nWell, what was nice is we definitely focused on building that sales team early\n\n548\n00:24:43.790 --> 00:24:44.240\non and\n\n549\n00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:50.060\nthen related to what you're saying, we got so many of our great ideas for the\n\n550\n00:24:50.060 --> 00:24:50.800\ncompany\n\n551\n00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:53.880\nthrough both our employees and our clients.\n\n552\n00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:59.020\nSo for example, our salespeople who were on the front lines, they were talking\n\n553\n00:24:59.020 --> 00:24:59.920\nto clients\n\n554\n00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.720\nor handling big projects.\n\n555\n00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:07.000\nAnd one example would be when we started our litigation support services\n\n556\n00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:07.800\ndivision, that\n\n557\n00:25:07.800 --> 00:25:12.750\nwas the idea of one of our salespeople who was dealing with these cases that we\n\n558\n00:25:12.750 --> 00:25:13.160\nwere\n\n559\n00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:15.080\ndoing the translation for.\n\n560\n00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:16.520\nAnd so that was one.\n\n561\n00:25:16.520 --> 00:25:21.260\nAnother was when we became ISO certified and that added a lot of value to our\n\n562\n00:25:21.260 --> 00:25:22.040\ncompany.\n\n563\n00:25:22.040 --> 00:25:24.400\nThat was from another employee.\n\n564\n00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.980\nAnother was when we developed our language certification, which really expanded\n\n565\n00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:29.280\nour reach.\n\n566\n00:25:29.280 --> 00:25:30.800\nAnd that was through an employee.\n\n567\n00:25:30.800 --> 00:25:35.920\nAnd then so many of the other ideas were through conversations with clients.\n\n568\n00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:42.910\nSo I think what I found is the innovation was not difficult because we had\n\n569\n00:25:42.910 --> 00:25:43.840\nemployees\n\n570\n00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:46.880\nand clients who were happy to share ideas with us.\n\n571\n00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.640\nAnd in fact, we had all kinds of ways to get these ideas from our employees.\n\n572\n00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:58.380\nI mean, everything from certain positions required an innovation idea in order\n\n573\n00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.840\nto be\n\n574\n00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:00.240\npromoted into.\n\n575\n00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.600\nWe did a lot of promotion from within in order to be promoted.\n\n576\n00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:05.000\nSomeone had to come up with a new idea.\n\n577\n00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:06.760\nSo that was the incentive.\n\n578\n00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:11.010\nBut as far as how they came up with these ideas, you know, as I said, just from\n\n579\n00:26:11.010 --> 00:26:11.440\ndealing\n\n580\n00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.930\nwith the business, another way we got them was employee questionnaires,\n\n581\n00:26:15.930 --> 00:26:16.520\nemployee one\n\n582\n00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:17.520\non one meetings.\n\n583\n00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:22.580\nI'm a big believer in sitting with the people for a meeting or walking with the\n\n584\n00:26:22.580 --> 00:26:23.240\npeople that\n\n585\n00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:29.430\nyou work with directly one on one ideally once a week, if not once every two\n\n586\n00:26:29.430 --> 00:26:30.320\nweeks.\n\n587\n00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:33.240\nAnd that's how you can get some of these great ideas.\n\n588\n00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.560\nSo that's the answer to your question.\n\n589\n00:26:35.560 --> 00:26:38.680\nI think so many ideas from our employees and from our clients.\n\n590\n00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:43.020\nAnd then by just stepping back, because as we all know, when we're busy in the\n\n591\n00:26:43.020 --> 00:26:43.920\nbusiness,\n\n592\n00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:47.760\nwe can't and stepping back and looking at the big picture also gave us a chance\n\n593\n00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:48.120\nto come\n\n594\n00:26:48.120 --> 00:26:50.960\nup with some of our own ideas as well.\n\n595\n00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.120\nNow you had a co-founder who you met at NYU Stern School of Business.\n\n596\n00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:58.200\nWhat made the partnership work at the beginning?\n\n597\n00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:02.040\nSo the way it worked at the beginning, we met at business school.\n\n598\n00:27:02.040 --> 00:27:06.550\nI had the language background as far as taking languages and working in the\n\n599\n00:27:06.550 --> 00:27:07.400\nindustry.\n\n600\n00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.520\nAnd he liked the idea of being an entrepreneur.\n\n601\n00:27:11.520 --> 00:27:15.580\nAnd I think we were both just committed to building the world's premier\n\n602\n00:27:15.580 --> 00:27:16.680\nlanguage solutions\n\n603\n00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:19.680\ncompany and doing whatever it took.\n\n604\n00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:26.790\nAnd in the early days, we were putting in a ridiculous amount of time, 100, 120\n\n605\n00:27:26.790 --> 00:27:27.320\nhours\n\n606\n00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:32.450\na week for quite a few years, and we were both willing to put everything aside\n\n607\n00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:32.800\nin our\n\n608\n00:27:32.800 --> 00:27:33.800\nlives to do that.\n\n609\n00:27:33.800 --> 00:27:36.360\nAnd we were committed and we were motivated.\n\n610\n00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:38.600\nSo I think that made it work.\n\n611\n00:27:38.600 --> 00:27:41.200\nWe did have complementary skills.\n\n612\n00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:47.220\nHowever, I will say, we didn't do the best job saying, okay, you do this, I do\n\n613\n00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:47.960\nthat.\n\n614\n00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:48.960\nWe didn't.\n\n615\n00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:53.220\nI mean, of course, that's what you need in a company to divide responsibilities\n\n616\n00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:53.440\n.\n\n617\n00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:55.160\nThat's critical.\n\n618\n00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:56.720\nAnd we didn't do that.\n\n619\n00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:01.070\nBut in spite of that, we had complementary skills and we were both beyond\n\n620\n00:28:01.070 --> 00:28:02.040\nmotivated.\n\n621\n00:28:02.040 --> 00:28:03.040\nThat's great.\n\n622\n00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:06.880\nAnd when you started the business, I think you had a 50/50 deal, right?\n\n623\n00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.000\nWhen did you first realize that that could potentially be a problem or was it a\n\n624\n00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:11.680\nproblem?\n\n625\n00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:16.480\nSo the truth is, I think I realized pretty early on that it could be a problem.\n\n626\n00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.640\nWhen we started the company, we started with no money, no money whatsoever.\n\n627\n00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:25.520\nI had a few thousand dollars life savings in the bank.\n\n628\n00:28:25.520 --> 00:28:29.360\nI got a credit card advance, but we had no money.\n\n629\n00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:34.440\nAnd he actually had some business school debt that we needed to take care of.\n\n630\n00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:38.480\nSo the bottom line is, when did I realize it was a problem?\n\n631\n00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:42.620\nI think very early on when we were in that NYU Business School dorm room, just\n\n632\n00:28:42.620 --> 00:28:43.000\nthought\n\n633\n00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:46.800\nwe don't have money to hire an attorney, to hire an accountant.\n\n634\n00:28:46.800 --> 00:28:50.800\nSo we will just file incorporation papers and we'll be on our way.\n\n635\n00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:55.090\nA few years into the company, what happened is he and I were boyfriend, a\n\n636\n00:28:55.090 --> 00:28:55.760\ngirlfriend,\n\n637\n00:28:55.760 --> 00:28:58.400\nand then we were engaged.\n\n638\n00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.320\nAnd then we broke up.\n\n639\n00:29:00.320 --> 00:29:03.800\nAnd at that point, I think I realized we really need this shareholders\n\n640\n00:29:03.800 --> 00:29:05.320\nagreement because we\n\n641\n00:29:05.320 --> 00:29:11.210\nneed to clearly define our roles, our responsibilities, how decisions are made,\n\n642\n00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:12.800\ndispute resolution,\n\n643\n00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:17.600\nwhat happens in the event of divorce, death, disability.\n\n644\n00:29:17.600 --> 00:29:22.990\nAnd if either of us wants to stop working and sell this company and the other\n\n645\n00:29:22.990 --> 00:29:23.840\ndoesn't,\n\n646\n00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:24.840\nfor example.\n\n647\n00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:29.320\nSo I knew we needed this for a lot of reasons, not to mention we couldn't agree\n\n648\n00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:30.880\nconstantly.\n\n649\n00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:31.880\nConstantly.\n\n650\n00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:32.880\nSo we fought.\n\n651\n00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.880\nWe fought.\n\n652\n00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.200\nSo this happened about five or six years into it.\n\n653\n00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.440\nI will say we did bring in attorneys at that point, spent the day with them,\n\n654\n00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:42.240\nand then could\n\n655\n00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.400\nnot agree on a shareholders agreement.\n\n656\n00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:46.720\nWe just, we're not both agree to do it.\n\n657\n00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:54.100\nSo that we went through the whole time together as co-owners, co-CEOs, for all\n\n658\n00:29:54.100 --> 00:29:55.080\nintents and\n\n659\n00:29:55.080 --> 00:30:01.120\npurposes, 50/50 owners with no clear way of making decisions.\n\n660\n00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:03.120\nAnd it was a challenge.\n\n661\n00:30:03.120 --> 00:30:07.920\nAnd then finally, it got to a point where it got really bad.\n\n662\n00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.440\nAnd I tried again.\n\n663\n00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.000\nWe couldn't agree on one.\n\n664\n00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.360\nAnd as a result, I had to pursue litigation.\n\n665\n00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:16.360\nAnd I'll tell you what I did.\n\n666\n00:30:16.360 --> 00:30:21.070\nI actually litigated to get a custodian to be put in charge to resolve deadlock\n\n667\n00:30:21.070 --> 00:30:21.160\nin the\n\n668\n00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.230\nshort term and oversee the sale of the company in the longer term whereby I\n\n669\n00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:26.040\ncould buy him\n\n670\n00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:27.040\nout.\n\n671\n00:30:27.040 --> 00:30:29.560\nHe could buy me out or a third party could buy us both out.\n\n672\n00:30:29.560 --> 00:30:34.580\nBut the point is when I tell people the lesson learned is you need a\n\n673\n00:30:34.580 --> 00:30:36.200\nshareholders agreement.\n\n674\n00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:40.550\nEven if you have almost no money, even if you're broke like we were, you need a\n\n675\n00:30:40.550 --> 00:30:41.120\nproper\n\n676\n00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:42.840\nshareholders agreement.\n\n677\n00:30:42.840 --> 00:30:48.940\nI also recommend you not be 50/50 owners with no clear decision maker, no tie\n\n678\n00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:50.440\nbreaker, because\n\n679\n00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.520\nit can be very rocky and very challenging.\n\n680\n00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:57.130\nAnd then finally, if you do have a shareholders agreement, it's important that\n\n681\n00:30:57.130 --> 00:30:57.680\nthere be a\n\n682\n00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:03.760\nnon-compete between you and your partner because that ultimately I couldn't get\n\n683\n00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:04.080\n.\n\n684\n00:31:04.080 --> 00:31:07.910\nAnd that would have been helpful to have in the end too, just as far as when\n\n685\n00:31:07.910 --> 00:31:08.480\nyou're selling\n\n686\n00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.080\nthe company, that will increase the valuation of the company.\n\n687\n00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:13.240\nYeah, makes a lot of sense.\n\n688\n00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:16.790\nBut that had to be, we'll move on from this, but that had to be a lot of drama,\n\n689\n00:31:16.790 --> 00:31:17.600\nparticularly\n\n690\n00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:19.480\nat the end before you sold, I would imagine.\n\n691\n00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:24.490\nI mean, how did you, with that drama, how did the company function, you have\n\n692\n00:31:24.490 --> 00:31:25.200\nall these\n\n693\n00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.480\npeople working for you?\n\n694\n00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.400\nI mean, how did you manage through that, Liz, as a leader?\n\n695\n00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.400\nI mean, how did you rise above it?\n\n696\n00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:36.310\nYeah, that's a great question because that was the toughest time in my life,\n\n697\n00:31:36.310 --> 00:31:37.560\nquite frankly.\n\n698\n00:31:37.560 --> 00:31:42.120\nIt was difficult, I think we just had to not be emotional.\n\n699\n00:31:42.120 --> 00:31:44.880\nI mean, how can any of us not be emotional, right?\n\n700\n00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.840\nThat sounds crazy.\n\n701\n00:31:46.840 --> 00:31:50.420\nBut in the interest of the company and what's best for the employees and what\n\n702\n00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:50.880\nwas best\n\n703\n00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:54.360\nfor the clients, I did my best to rise above it.\n\n704\n00:31:54.360 --> 00:31:55.960\nBut yes, it was very public.\n\n705\n00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.720\nThere was a lot of press on it.\n\n706\n00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:03.520\nAnd I just thought, I've got to push through this and I can't quit.\n\n707\n00:32:03.520 --> 00:32:07.020\nI could have just not pursued the litigation, not gone through the litigation,\n\n708\n00:32:07.020 --> 00:32:07.480\nnot gone\n\n709\n00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.840\nthrough the lengthy sale process.\n\n710\n00:32:09.840 --> 00:32:11.440\nBut I'm so glad I did.\n\n711\n00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:14.400\nAnd I think I learned from that the importance of not quitting.\n\n712\n00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:18.480\nAnd believe me, a lot of people were saying, this isn't good for the company.\n\n713\n00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:23.100\nYou should just do something where you're not working together in an expedited\n\n714\n00:32:23.100 --> 00:32:23.480\nway,\n\n715\n00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:28.320\nbut it needed to be done as it was done as far as the process.\n\n716\n00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:32.180\nAnd I think you just pushed through it, but it was a good learning lesson for\n\n717\n00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:32.640\nme that\n\n718\n00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.640\nsometimes you just have to stay with things until the end when you know what's\n\n719\n00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:37.120\nbest.\n\n720\n00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:40.600\nBut all the while, trying to keep the employees out of it, much like when\n\n721\n00:32:40.600 --> 00:32:41.560\nparents are going\n\n722\n00:32:41.560 --> 00:32:44.120\nthrough a divorce, you keep the kids out of it.\n\n723\n00:32:44.120 --> 00:32:47.000\nAnd that was what I tried to do, but it was crazy.\n\n724\n00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:48.200\nIt was crazy drama.\n\n725\n00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.280\nIt was so insane.\n\n726\n00:32:51.280 --> 00:32:52.920\nSounds like it.\n\n727\n00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:54.800\nBut you decide to sell your shares in the end.\n\n728\n00:32:54.800 --> 00:32:55.800\nIt's trans perfect.\n\n729\n00:32:55.800 --> 00:33:00.450\nBut before you left it, as you mentioned, after 25 years from the business, you\n\n730\n00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:01.000\nfinally\n\n731\n00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:05.320\nhit your big goal to become the largest language solutions business in the\n\n732\n00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:05.960\nworld.\n\n733\n00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.680\nHow'd you celebrate, Liz?\n\n734\n00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:11.080\nIt was ultimately a celebration, very emotional at first.\n\n735\n00:33:11.080 --> 00:33:13.200\nI felt like I was leaving my baby behind.\n\n736\n00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:18.240\nAnd, you know, there was so much loving and caring and emotion in the company.\n\n737\n00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.680\nAnd I had felt like so many of those people were my family.\n\n738\n00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.640\nBut, but that said, how did I celebrate?\n\n739\n00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:27.200\nI finally went on my long-awaited maternity leave.\n\n740\n00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:33.060\nAnd what I mean by that is I was very much in the weeds when I had both my kids\n\n741\n00:33:33.060 --> 00:33:33.360\n.\n\n742\n00:33:33.360 --> 00:33:37.800\nAnd we had about 150 people at the company when I had my first son and a little\n\n743\n00:33:37.800 --> 00:33:38.080\nmore\n\n744\n00:33:38.080 --> 00:33:40.560\nthan that when I had my second son.\n\n745\n00:33:40.560 --> 00:33:43.200\nAnd I couldn't take even a day of maternity leave.\n\n746\n00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.240\nSo my kids were in high school visiting colleges.\n\n747\n00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.480\nAnd I got to spend some long-awaited quality time with them.\n\n748\n00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.120\nSo that was wonderful.\n\n749\n00:33:52.120 --> 00:33:54.760\nI also started my foundation.\n\n750\n00:33:54.760 --> 00:33:56.360\nAnd I thought, well, isn't this great?\n\n751\n00:33:56.360 --> 00:34:01.300\nAnd now I can focus on all the issues that I've been seeing, are real issues in\n\n752\n00:34:01.300 --> 00:34:02.120\nthis country,\n\n753\n00:34:02.120 --> 00:34:05.440\nin this world that I haven't had time to focus on.\n\n754\n00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.240\nSo that's been wonderful.\n\n755\n00:34:08.240 --> 00:34:13.870\nAnd then, of course, now I just wrote my book, Dream Big and Win, where I'm\n\n756\n00:34:13.870 --> 00:34:14.440\nreally excited.\n\n757\n00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:17.800\nI've really enjoyed the process because I love talking about entrepreneurship\n\n758\n00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:18.560\nand what\n\n759\n00:34:18.560 --> 00:34:21.280\nI learned along the way from what I did, right?\n\n760\n00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:22.800\nAnd the many things I did wrong.\n\n761\n00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.280\nAnd I've loved this process as well.\n\n762\n00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:26.480\nSo it's all been one big celebration.\n\n763\n00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:30.920\nIt's been wonderful.\n\n764\n00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.040\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Liz Elting in just a moment\n\n765\n00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:35.040\n.\n\n766\n00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:38.770\nI'm telling you, it's an incredible thing to build a billion-dollar business\n\n767\n00:34:38.770 --> 00:34:39.240\nfrom the\n\n768\n00:34:39.240 --> 00:34:40.560\nground up.\n\n769\n00:34:40.560 --> 00:34:45.800\nThat's also what Uri Levine did, is the co-founder of the popular traffic app,\n\n770\n00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:46.400\nWaze.\n\n771\n00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.760\nHe joined me for a conversation on how leaders lead not too long ago.\n\n772\n00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:55.880\nJust like Liz, Uri has found that success often comes faster when you're not\n\n773\n00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:56.440\nafraid\n\n774\n00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.320\nof failure.\n\n775\n00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:02.040\nAt the end of the day, it's going to be a journey of failures, right?\n\n776\n00:35:02.040 --> 00:35:04.680\nSo you are going to make mistakes throughout this journey.\n\n777\n00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:06.000\nAnd there are two conclusions of that.\n\n778\n00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.820\nIf you realize that this is going to be a journey of failure, the first one is\n\n779\n00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:09.200\nthat if\n\n780\n00:35:09.200 --> 00:35:12.600\nyou're afraid to fail, then in reality, you already fail because you're not\n\n781\n00:35:12.600 --> 00:35:13.040\ngoing to\n\n782\n00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:14.040\ncry.\n\n783\n00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:17.250\nBut even if you decide that you are not afraid to fail and you go into this\n\n784\n00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:18.360\njourney, the faster\n\n785\n00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:22.430\nthat you fail, you essentially increase the likelihood of being successful\n\n786\n00:35:22.430 --> 00:35:23.120\nbecause you\n\n787\n00:35:23.120 --> 00:35:27.290\nhave enough time and resources and funding for another attempt and another try\n\n788\n00:35:27.290 --> 00:35:27.880\nand another\n\n789\n00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.280\nexperiment and so forth.\n\n790\n00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:35.920\nGo back and listen to my entire conversation with Uri, Episode 129, here on How\n\n791\n00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:36.560\nleaders\n\n792\n00:35:36.560 --> 00:35:43.520\nlead.\n\n793\n00:35:43.520 --> 00:35:46.160\nThis foundation you started.\n\n794\n00:35:46.160 --> 00:35:51.430\nWhat do you see are the tangible things you're going to do to advance women's\n\n795\n00:35:51.430 --> 00:35:52.360\nability to\n\n796\n00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:56.000\nmove up in the workplace and be treated the way they should be treated?\n\n797\n00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:58.880\nI know you had a big payout that everybody knows about.\n\n798\n00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.840\nYou walked away with about $400 million.\n\n799\n00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.160\nYou got plenty of money to make a big difference.\n\n800\n00:36:03.160 --> 00:36:07.800\nSo what would we specifically do to change the game?\n\n801\n00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.640\nWhat I've tried to do related to what you're saying, David, is I really do\n\n802\n00:36:11.640 --> 00:36:12.960\nfocused on women\n\n803\n00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.160\nand marginalized communities.\n\n804\n00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:21.570\nAnd one of the things I do is scholarships for women, undergrad, like Trinity\n\n805\n00:36:21.570 --> 00:36:22.320\nCollege,\n\n806\n00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:26.390\nwhere I went and I'm on the board, and then business school went to NYU\n\n807\n00:36:26.390 --> 00:36:27.840\nBusiness School,\n\n808\n00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.960\nfocus on MBA scholarships also.\n\n809\n00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:36.680\nAnd then I focus on other scholarships at a few other colleges as well.\n\n810\n00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:39.720\nAnd that's because of course, education is the great equalizer.\n\n811\n00:36:39.720 --> 00:36:44.120\nBut in addition, another great equalizer is entrepreneurship.\n\n812\n00:36:44.120 --> 00:36:46.400\nAnd so I really focus on entrepreneurs.\n\n813\n00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.800\nAnd I do that with NYU Business School.\n\n814\n00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:53.720\nI'm part of something called Endless Frontier Labs.\n\n815\n00:36:53.720 --> 00:36:56.000\nAnd I have something called Elizabeth Elting Ventures.\n\n816\n00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:00.020\nAnd I fund women-led businesses that are part of Endless Frontier Labs, which\n\n817\n00:37:00.020 --> 00:37:00.480\nis what\n\n818\n00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.680\nI think the best accelerator program in the world.\n\n819\n00:37:03.680 --> 00:37:07.240\nI mean, we have people from all over the world participate in it.\n\n820\n00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:11.360\nThey don't have any or they don't need to have any affiliation with NYU.\n\n821\n00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:15.080\nAnd I'm very involved in supporting those women entrepreneurs.\n\n822\n00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:18.470\nAlso, I'm supporting women entrepreneurs through the American Heart Association\n\n823\n00:37:18.470 --> 00:37:18.680\n.\n\n824\n00:37:18.680 --> 00:37:21.240\nI just started a social impact fund there.\n\n825\n00:37:21.240 --> 00:37:25.690\nAnd these women entrepreneurs are, and they're women of color generally, and\n\n826\n00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:26.640\nthey're working\n\n827\n00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:33.320\nin their communities addressing the social inequities related to heart disease.\n\n828\n00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:36.200\nSo doing that, lift our voices.\n\n829\n00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:39.680\nI will mention that because it relates to your original question.\n\n830\n00:37:39.680 --> 00:37:44.980\nThat foundation was started by Gretchen Carlson, who went through a lot with\n\n831\n00:37:44.980 --> 00:37:46.280\nsexual harassment\n\n832\n00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:48.480\nand working on her cause as well.\n\n833\n00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.160\nSo that's an important one.\n\n834\n00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:53.780\nYour book, Dream Big and Win, you know, you want to share what you learned as\n\n835\n00:37:53.780 --> 00:37:54.840\nan entrepreneur.\n\n836\n00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.040\nWhat skills do you think are most important to have that you're going to start\n\n837\n00:37:58.040 --> 00:37:58.400\nand grow\n\n838\n00:37:58.400 --> 00:37:59.400\na business?\n\n839\n00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:04.640\nWell, I think it's super important to feel comfortable with risk.\n\n840\n00:38:04.640 --> 00:38:07.280\nBecause of course, there's going to be some risk.\n\n841\n00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:12.090\nAnd you just have to get comfortable with it because the alternative is another\n\n842\n00:38:12.090 --> 00:38:12.480\nkind\n\n843\n00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.880\nof risk, which is you may not lead your dream life.\n\n844\n00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:18.200\nYou're not in control of your destiny.\n\n845\n00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:23.950\nYou can't necessarily be working in your dream industry or in the dream culture\n\n846\n00:38:23.950 --> 00:38:24.560\nwithin\n\n847\n00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:25.600\nyour company.\n\n848\n00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:29.480\nYou can't necessarily control how much money you make.\n\n849\n00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:34.000\nYou can't ultimately control how you spend your time.\n\n850\n00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.980\nSo it's worth the risk because if you do all the right things, it could\n\n851\n00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:38.800\ndefinitely work\n\n852\n00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:39.800\nout.\n\n853\n00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:40.800\nAnd if not, so be it.\n\n854\n00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.800\nYou learn and you move on.\n\n855\n00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:43.640\nBut I think you need to get comfortable with risk.\n\n856\n00:38:43.640 --> 00:38:47.720\nI think you also need to be comfortable with putting in a lot of hours.\n\n857\n00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:52.780\nYou know, I think, you know, that doesn't sound what people want to hear, but I\n\n858\n00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:53.240\nthink\n\n859\n00:38:53.240 --> 00:38:58.120\nwe all know the hours can be crazy, you know, it can be crazy.\n\n860\n00:38:58.120 --> 00:39:00.720\nBut it's worth it because you can create your dream.\n\n861\n00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:04.810\nYou're creating your dream company, you're working with the kind of people who\n\n862\n00:39:04.810 --> 00:39:05.560\nare like-minded\n\n863\n00:39:05.560 --> 00:39:08.160\nand they want to build your dream too.\n\n864\n00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:12.440\nSo again, I think it's comfortable with risk, the hours.\n\n865\n00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:17.090\nAnd then people who think outside the box, people who are looking for ways to\n\n866\n00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:17.760\ndo things\n\n867\n00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:23.500\nbetter, you know, and I think that relates to just being curious, asking lots\n\n868\n00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:24.480\nof questions\n\n869\n00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.760\nand then thinking, okay, what's a way to solve this?\n\n870\n00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.160\nHow can I come up with a better way?\n\n871\n00:39:30.160 --> 00:39:34.480\nYou know, in your book, you say verbs are fundamental for dreams.\n\n872\n00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:35.480\nExplain.\n\n873\n00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:41.160\nYeah, because if you don't have a verb, it's just a dream or a wish.\n\n874\n00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:44.960\nAnd I think dreams are great because that's how you get inspired to do it.\n\n875\n00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:48.040\nBut it'll then just end up being a wish.\n\n876\n00:39:48.040 --> 00:39:50.080\nSo verbs meaning action.\n\n877\n00:39:50.080 --> 00:39:53.320\nAnd I've always been a language person with English too.\n\n878\n00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:55.680\nI mean, I love my verbs.\n\n879\n00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:59.710\nAnd it's all about actions because I think a lot of people love the idea of\n\n880\n00:39:59.710 --> 00:40:01.400\nbeing entrepreneurs,\n\n881\n00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.460\nbut it's about the actions you take day in and day out to get there over a\n\n882\n00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:06.120\nsustained\n\n883\n00:40:06.120 --> 00:40:07.120\nperiod of time.\n\n884\n00:40:07.120 --> 00:40:08.840\nAnd I think they're critical.\n\n885\n00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:11.870\nYou know, this has been so much fun, Liz, and I wanted to have some more with a\n\n886\n00:40:11.870 --> 00:40:12.360\nlightning\n\n887\n00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.920\nround of questions.\n\n888\n00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:15.400\nAre you ready for this?\n\n889\n00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:16.400\nYes, sure.\n\n890\n00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.280\nAll right, here we go.\n\n891\n00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:21.440\nWhat's one word others would use to best describe you?\n\n892\n00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.760\nI would say authentic.\n\n893\n00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:26.360\nWhat would you say is one word that best describes you?\n\n894\n00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:27.360\nI hope kind.\n\n895\n00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.080\nI'd like to believe I'm kind.\n\n896\n00:40:30.080 --> 00:40:34.040\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n897\n00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:37.880\nI would say Taylor Swift because she's got it all together.\n\n898\n00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:41.080\nI mean, she's got, she's figured it out, right?\n\n899\n00:40:41.080 --> 00:40:45.480\nThe talent, the brains, the ability to entertain.\n\n900\n00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:47.320\nI mean, she's amazing.\n\n901\n00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:48.560\nAbsolutely.\n\n902\n00:40:48.560 --> 00:40:50.320\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n903\n00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.480\nI like when people are on time.\n\n904\n00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:53.680\nI don't like when people are late.\n\n905\n00:40:53.680 --> 00:40:55.520\nI don't like when people are late.\n\n906\n00:40:55.520 --> 00:40:57.680\nWhat's your favorite language to speak?\n\n907\n00:40:57.680 --> 00:40:59.840\nYou know, I love Spanish.\n\n908\n00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:05.650\nI just had the most amazing time, my junior year in Spain and the people, the\n\n909\n00:41:05.650 --> 00:41:06.480\nculture.\n\n910\n00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:10.320\nI just feel like I'm in another world when I'm speaking Spanish.\n\n911\n00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:12.000\nWhat's one of your daily rituals?\n\n912\n00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.880\nSomething that you absolutely never miss?\n\n913\n00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.360\nI walk at least five miles a day.\n\n914\n00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:18.360\nAwesome.\n\n915\n00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.480\nIf I turn the radio on in your car, what would I hear?\n\n916\n00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:22.480\nJimmy Buffett.\n\n917\n00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.320\nI love Jimmy Buffett.\n\n918\n00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:27.480\nWhat's something about you few people would know?\n\n919\n00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:29.840\nI'm very competitive.\n\n920\n00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.800\nBut I think people might know that.\n\n921\n00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:33.720\nThat's the end of the lightning round, okay?\n\n922\n00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:37.560\nBut I want to ask you, you say that, you know, you're competitive.\n\n923\n00:41:37.560 --> 00:41:40.360\nHow do you manage your competitive instincts?\n\n924\n00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:44.520\nI mean, you obviously, you know, dream big and win.\n\n925\n00:41:44.520 --> 00:41:45.520\nWin's a big part.\n\n926\n00:41:45.520 --> 00:41:48.540\nYou know, it's like, if you had to say, what's the biggest part of the book,\n\n927\n00:41:48.540 --> 00:41:49.160\nthe Dreaming\n\n928\n00:41:49.160 --> 00:41:51.520\nBig or the end win?\n\n929\n00:41:51.520 --> 00:41:55.780\nThe idea is, you know, whatever you're doing, and I think what I mean by it is,\n\n930\n00:41:55.780 --> 00:41:56.400\nyou don't\n\n931\n00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.400\njust think, okay, I'm going to do it to a small degree.\n\n932\n00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:02.000\nLike, think big.\n\n933\n00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:06.380\nI think it's so important to think big because if you think big, you may not\n\n934\n00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:07.320\nachieve everything\n\n935\n00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.520\nyou want to, the biggest in your industry, but you just might.\n\n936\n00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:16.080\nAnd you will get damn near close if you do.\n\n937\n00:42:16.080 --> 00:42:19.380\nSo I think it's very important to dream big, and then as far as winning, you\n\n938\n00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:20.040\nknow, what\n\n939\n00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:21.040\ndefines the win?\n\n940\n00:42:21.040 --> 00:42:25.360\nI mean, getting close, achieving the actual dream.\n\n941\n00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:30.410\nAnd I feel like whether it's doing it in the first part of your career or, you\n\n942\n00:42:30.410 --> 00:42:31.000\nknow,\n\n943\n00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.640\nwhat I went through in the later parts of my career, I mean, what I went\n\n944\n00:42:34.640 --> 00:42:35.360\nthrough and\n\n945\n00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:39.630\nwith, you know, I had my litigation, then I have my foundation work and now my\n\n946\n00:42:39.630 --> 00:42:39.720\nbook\n\n947\n00:42:39.720 --> 00:42:44.140\nwork and I just think it's whatever you're doing, you know, go for, shoot for\n\n948\n00:42:44.140 --> 00:42:45.160\nthe stars.\n\n949\n00:42:45.160 --> 00:42:51.310\nAnd then you will, you know, win in some way and maybe it's the actual ultimate\n\n950\n00:42:51.310 --> 00:42:51.400\ngoal.\n\n951\n00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:56.030\nIn your book, you have a quote and I love this is which is work today like no\n\n952\n00:42:56.030 --> 00:42:56.560\none else\n\n953\n00:42:56.560 --> 00:43:01.320\nwill so you can live and give tomorrow like no one else can.\n\n954\n00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:06.910\nYou know, when you look forward now and you think about your own dreams, what\n\n955\n00:43:06.910 --> 00:43:07.640\ndo you see\n\n956\n00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:09.920\nas your unfinished business?\n\n957\n00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:16.880\nI think the unfinished business is trying to leave the world a better place\n\n958\n00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:17.200\nthan when\n\n959\n00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:22.010\nI came into it or that it is now and there are a lot of causes to work on,\n\n960\n00:43:22.010 --> 00:43:22.800\nright?\n\n961\n00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:26.680\nThey're all the different things that I and so many other people are working.\n\n962\n00:43:26.680 --> 00:43:28.760\nAnd so that's my unfinished business.\n\n963\n00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.920\nJust keep trying to give them back and make the world a better place.\n\n964\n00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:34.020\nLast question.\n\n965\n00:43:34.020 --> 00:43:38.170\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better\n\n966\n00:43:38.170 --> 00:43:38.600\nleader?\n\n967\n00:43:38.600 --> 00:43:43.410\nYou know, I mentioned before the one on one meetings and I think they are so\n\n968\n00:43:43.410 --> 00:43:44.720\nimportant.\n\n969\n00:43:44.720 --> 00:43:49.810\nYou know, basically talking to your people and finding out what's important to\n\n970\n00:43:49.810 --> 00:43:50.400\nthem.\n\n971\n00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.720\nAnd sometimes you actually have to ask more than once like, how are you?\n\n972\n00:43:53.720 --> 00:43:54.720\nThey say fine.\n\n973\n00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:55.720\nNo, how are you really?\n\n974\n00:43:55.720 --> 00:43:56.720\nOh, everything's good.\n\n975\n00:43:56.720 --> 00:44:00.110\nAnd then you might have to ask five times to get to the answer and part of it\n\n976\n00:44:00.110 --> 00:44:00.880\nis personally\n\n977\n00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.080\nand then part of it is respect with respect to business.\n\n978\n00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:08.780\nAnd that way you can manage them right, you can make sure you're addressing\n\n979\n00:44:08.780 --> 00:44:09.840\ntheir personal\n\n980\n00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.060\nneeds, you can also make sure you're helping them fulfill their long term goals\n\n981\n00:44:14.060 --> 00:44:14.320\n.\n\n982\n00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:19.810\nSo I think it's so much about talking to your people and of course listening to\n\n983\n00:44:19.810 --> 00:44:20.480\nthem and\n\n984\n00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:27.230\nthen making sure you're giving each individual what they need so that they want\n\n985\n00:44:27.230 --> 00:44:27.920\nto work\n\n986\n00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:31.600\nfor you and with you and stay at your company a very long time.\n\n987\n00:44:31.600 --> 00:44:34.520\nI have to ask you another question while I have you because it's interesting.\n\n988\n00:44:34.520 --> 00:44:37.770\nYou know, you work these incredible long hours and I think we all do when we're\n\n989\n00:44:37.770 --> 00:44:38.280\nbuilding\n\n990\n00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.750\nsomething and you know, you talked about a hundred hour weeks, hundred and\n\n991\n00:44:41.750 --> 00:44:42.600\ntwenty hour\n\n992\n00:44:42.600 --> 00:44:43.600\nweeks.\n\n993\n00:44:43.600 --> 00:44:48.170\nDid you ever burn yourself out and if you did, how did you replenish your\n\n994\n00:44:48.170 --> 00:44:48.920\nenergy?\n\n995\n00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:53.720\nYes, I did burn myself out over the 26 years.\n\n996\n00:44:53.720 --> 00:44:54.720\nI mean, yes.\n\n997\n00:44:54.720 --> 00:44:58.790\nAnd it got so much better and I guess that's what happens to people over that\n\n998\n00:44:58.790 --> 00:44:59.560\nlong period\n\n999\n00:44:59.560 --> 00:45:00.560\nof time.\n\n1000\n00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:01.960\nIn the last days, it was crazy.\n\n1001\n00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:03.280\nHow did I replenish my energy?\n\n1002\n00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:09.640\nI think as time went on, I was lucky enough to have kids and get to spend time\n\n1003\n00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:10.280\nwith my\n\n1004\n00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:14.750\nkids and of course, when I did get to spend time with my kids, that is the most\n\n1005\n00:45:14.750 --> 00:45:15.400\nkind of\n\n1006\n00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:18.680\nuplifting time that I ever had.\n\n1007\n00:45:18.680 --> 00:45:21.100\nI mean, being with them, being with them when they're little, when they're\n\n1008\n00:45:21.100 --> 00:45:22.080\nlearning to walk\n\n1009\n00:45:22.080 --> 00:45:23.080\nand learning to talk.\n\n1010\n00:45:23.080 --> 00:45:28.300\nSo that was very fulfilling and I think traveling with them when I got the\n\n1011\n00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:29.680\nopportunity, getting\n\n1012\n00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:32.800\nexercise, I think that was wonderful.\n\n1013\n00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:34.560\nBut yeah, I think it's really important.\n\n1014\n00:45:34.560 --> 00:45:37.880\nYeah, you have to step away from it or you will completely burn out.\n\n1015\n00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:40.740\nBut it was all about the family in the end because the last thing I'll say on\n\n1016\n00:45:40.740 --> 00:45:41.080\nit is,\n\n1017\n00:45:41.080 --> 00:45:44.800\nI think when you're doing it, you don't have a lot of time for hobbies.\n\n1018\n00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.120\nSo our eye didn't and so it was kind of all work, but then boy, if I wasn't\n\n1019\n00:45:49.120 --> 00:45:49.960\nworking,\n\n1020\n00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:52.840\nI wanted to spend every minute with my kids and that was the best.\n\n1021\n00:45:52.840 --> 00:46:07.540\nYou know, at Young Brands, I got a lot of big ideas pitched to me and it was my\n\n1022\n00:46:07.540 --> 00:46:08.000\njob to\n\n1023\n00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:12.620\nask the right questions and make sure those big ideas were really going to help\n\n1024\n00:46:12.620 --> 00:46:13.720\nour business.\n\n1025\n00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:19.080\nOne of those questions I always asked after hearing a big idea was, \"Now what?\n\n1026\n00:46:19.080 --> 00:46:22.760\nWhat do we really need to do to make this happen?\"\n\n1027\n00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:27.410\nBecause here's the thing, those big dreams and ideas are important, but they're\n\n1028\n00:46:27.410 --> 00:46:27.640\njust\n\n1029\n00:46:27.640 --> 00:46:28.840\nthe beginning.\n\n1030\n00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:33.720\nThe real success comes when you do the hard work of executing them.\n\n1031\n00:46:33.720 --> 00:46:37.160\nAnd that's a big theme I see in how Liz leads.\n\n1032\n00:46:37.160 --> 00:46:41.870\nFrom the get-go at TransPerfect, she was all about action and execution, where\n\n1033\n00:46:41.870 --> 00:46:42.520\ntheir daily\n\n1034\n00:46:42.520 --> 00:46:46.560\nquota of 300 sales calls that really built the business.\n\n1035\n00:46:46.560 --> 00:46:50.280\nAnd she built that bias towards action into her culture.\n\n1036\n00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:55.260\nShe made sure her team set goals and she incentivized everybody to achieve them\n\n1037\n00:46:55.260 --> 00:46:55.560\n.\n\n1038\n00:46:55.560 --> 00:46:59.360\nThat's an important takeaway to your life as a leader too.\n\n1039\n00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:05.140\nDreams and ideas and strategies are all crucial, but it's easy to get stuck\n\n1040\n00:47:05.140 --> 00:47:05.480\nthere.\n\n1041\n00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:11.720\nDevelop a strong bias towards taking action, both for yourself and your team.\n\n1042\n00:47:11.720 --> 00:47:17.360\nSet goals with deadlines, create incentives, and just be willing to jump in and\n\n1043\n00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:18.560\nget started.\n\n1044\n00:47:18.560 --> 00:47:20.640\nYou've got to execute.\n\n1045\n00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:23.560\nYou've got to make sure things get done.\n\n1046\n00:47:23.560 --> 00:47:26.360\nSo I got to ask you, \"Now what?\"\n\n1047\n00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:30.240\nThis is a big idea, but we got to turn it into action, right?\n\n1048\n00:47:30.240 --> 00:47:35.050\nThis week, as you close out your meetings and workdays, try that question for\n\n1049\n00:47:35.050 --> 00:47:35.960\nyourself.\n\n1050\n00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:38.240\nAsk yourself, \"Now what?\"\n\n1051\n00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:40.240\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1052\n00:47:40.240 --> 00:47:45.080\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders develop a bias towards action.\n\n1053\n00:47:45.080 --> 00:47:51.390\nAnd up next on How Leaders Lead is Mike White, the former chairman and CEO of\n\n1054\n00:47:51.390 --> 00:47:51.960\nDirect TV.\n\n1055\n00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.000\nIntegrity and character comes first, no question.\n\n1056\n00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.200\nBut second in a world of change, you've got to look around the corner and skate\n\n1057\n00:47:58.200 --> 00:47:58.480\nto where\n\n1058\n00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:00.920\nthe fuck is going to quote Gretzky.\n\n1059\n00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:04.580\nAnd in this world in particular, the change has come in so fast and furious,\n\n1060\n00:48:04.580 --> 00:48:05.280\nyou've got\n\n1061\n00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.200\nto make sure what to keep and what to change.\n\n1062\n00:48:08.200 --> 00:48:10.520\nAnd that's a constant challenge.\n\n1063\n00:48:10.520 --> 00:48:15.040\nSo be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation.\n\n1064\n00:48:15.040 --> 00:48:19.000\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every\n\n1065\n00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:19.560\nThursday\n\n1066\n00:48:19.560 --> 00:48:23.850\nyou get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the\n\n1067\n00:48:23.850 --> 00:48:24.520\nworld.\n\n1068\n00:48:24.520 --> 00:48:28.720\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1069\n00:48:28.720 --> 00:48:29.520\napply to your\n\n1070\n00:48:29.520 --> 00:48:33.120\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1071\n00:48:33.120 --> 00:48:43.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1072\n00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:53.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. You know, there are a few things more frustrating than a leader who sets up a bunch of meetings, and presents ideas and talks strategy, but then doesn't really know how to motivate people. So all that stuff actually gets done. It's actually one of the biggest derailing factors I see in leaders, they can dream and plan and strategize, but they don't have that urgency and action to galvanize their teams and make it happen. Fortunately, my guest today is not that kind of leader, Liz Elting is the former CEO of transperfect, which is the language translation solutions company that she built from the ground up into a billion dollar business. Today, you're going to hear how she did it. And you will see, Liz has a strong bias towards action that really drives her success. She's willing to put in the hard work and long hours. She's incredibly goal oriented. And even better, she knows how to motivate a team to go out and operate in the same way. And let me tell you, it is powerful. If you're feeling stagnant or weighed down by too much bureaucracy, this episode is going to help you be the kind of leader who gets big things done with a bias towards action. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. Liz Elting.

Yo lives as we get started here, you need to know that I barely passed Latin in college. But I'm going to give this a try anyway. Cuando Amari linguists,

Liz Elting 2:01

Oh, when did I start loving languages?

David Novak 2:04

You got it? You got it? For everybody else out there. I guess we should keep this in English. So tell everybody, when did you fall in love with language? You picked it up?

Liz Elting 2:15

You know? That's a great question. I love that question. I appreciate that question. Because, yes, languages have always been my passion. When I was eight, my family moved to Portugal. And when we did, I started learning Portuguese in French, in third grade. And right then in there, I realized I love languages, I love going to that bakery and ordering the delicious Portuguese bread in Portuguese. And I just loved the whole experience. So came back to the US then moved to Toronto, when I was 10. And then continued with French. And then in high school, I had the opportunity to start studying Latin and Spanish, and loved those languages as well. So languages became my passion. I took the four of them by the time I graduated from college, and it was yeah, a dream. I loved languages.

David Novak 3:03

And I want to get into how you lead and built this billion dollar business from the ground up, which is something I really admire. I love people who can, you know, really start something to make it make it really work. But first, let's let's go back to the beginning, you know, and you touched a little bit on it already. But what's a story from your childhood that really sticks out that shaped the kind of leader that you are today?

Liz Elting 3:26

Sure. So growing up, I, I had some some interesting times. And I remember one was when I was in sixth grade when I was 12 years old. And I was in music class. And there were about 60 of us in there. It was two combined classes. And we were all singing for our teacher one of my very favorite songs Joseph and His Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. And I was just loving it, having the time of my life. And I thought everything sounded so beautiful. And then our, and our music teacher started walking around from person to person, and in front of each person and stopping. And she got to me. And I thought, well, this is exciting. And she stopped, and she said, This is it. And I thought, Oh, well, she's going, she's going to tell me I can do a solo. And she said, this is the problem. You're off key, you need to go, we can't have you in the choir. So she basically told me I could not participate, I needed to go downstairs, sit in a classroom by myself for the rest of the semester, while everyone else the other 59 or so people got to stay. And it was so traumatic. And until then, I thought I was a pretty good singer. Clearly not. So I think from that I realized, wow, how could you do that? That was pretty awful. And I I didn't like being called out in public. It was it was traumatic, it was hard. And you know, I also felt like a bit of an underdog and but I also thought, Okay, I'm not going to do that, you know, to people if I'm in that situation, because that's really hard and no one wants to be given such Negative feedback in public. So that was one story that formed my style as a leader. But the other one was when I was 14, I was in Vermont walking with my cousin across the street in Manchester, Vermont, is I got hit by a car. It felt like out of nowhere. And I basically like, flew in the air landed on my head had a fractured skull was rushed to the hospital in Albany, because it was a very bad situation. And my parents then ended up getting there turned out there was another kid approximately my age, a boy who had a fractured skulls, similar injuries mind, we were both in a coma for about three days. And I remember my parents were talking to the boy's parents, and they said, oh, boy, you know, hopefully, it'll make it and, and my parents were even they were praying, they were saying, Okay, well, if she can't walk for the rest of her life, that's okay. As long as she can talk, as long as she doesn't have severe brain damage. Anyway, after three days, I woke up, the boy didn't. And I realized, wow, I was the lucky one. You know, I need to do something important in life, and I need to make a difference. At some point in my life, I need to go out, I need to help people, I need to make the world a better place. Because I'm here for a reason.

David Novak 6:14

That's great. I love that. And you certainly had a great takeaway from it, which is very powerful. You know, and I understand that your father gave you some great advice early on that ultimately led to you starting your business with languages. What did he tell you?

Liz Elting 6:32

It was sophomore year, it was the night before I needed to choose my major. And I called him up and I said, Dad, I don't know what to do, because I love my language courses. But what on earth? Am I going to do with a language major? You know, I want to have a good career. I know I need to be independent. And he said, Don't worry about it. He said, pursue what you love. And the rest will take care of itself. And so I chose languages. I majored in modern languages. And boy, was I glad he told me that because, you know, I felt like he gave me permission to pursue my passion. And that was

David Novak 7:05

wonderful. Absolutely. And when did you first experience this, that intersection of your passion, which was language and a career,

Liz Elting 7:15

shortly after graduating from college, I first did an internship in Venezuela. And then I came back from Caracas, Venezuela, to New York. And I was able to get a job at what, at the time was the world's largest translation company. It was about 90 people. And I was so excited because I saw, I walked in the door, I remember at that company for my interview, and I saw there was a Macintosh computer on every desk. And what they delivered was language services. And I thought, wow, this is business combined with language. And I had said to them, I'd love a job in sales. Do you have anything? They said? No, but perhaps you could do production? And I said, Okay, and if that works out, could I potentially move into sales after? And they said, Yes, maybe you can. So I had the opportunity to work at this wonderful translation company, where I learned the business, I loved it. I loved the culture, I loved what we were doing for clients. But I thought it could be done better. I really felt like I saw a real gap between what was needed in the industry. And what we were providing. I felt like there could be a real one stop shop with, you know, top of the line service, top of the line quality. And at the time, that was really what clients needed, you know, back then it was enough to be a translation company, and they were getting by, but I thought it could be done better.

David Novak 8:37

When you thought about how you could really differentiate yourself, you know, what was the idea you took to market and really ran with? Well, I

Liz Elting 8:47

knew there was a need for this service. You know, there were actually at the time, there were 10,000 Translation companies out there. But they were all moms and pops, there were between two and five people. And they were started and run by translators, very talented individuals with a very high level of language knowledge. But I didn't have that level of language knowledge. And instead, the idea was okay, I as a business person with an MBA could really take the company and scale it by spoiling the client with the best service out there by delivering superior quality by having an office in every major city around the world. And by being a real one stop shop. So those were the differentiators really to create the world's premier language solutions company.

David Novak 9:32

You have 10,000 competitors, you know, they most of them have less than five employees and, and yet you had this dream to scale this this language business, which is really amazing. You know, how did you pull yourself out of the weeds when you first started, so that you could really build scale? And I think that had to be a big task because you know, you don't have a lot of infrastructure at the beginning. You don't have that many clouds. It's, you know, how do you pull yourself out of the weeds and really start scaling something,

Liz Elting 10:05

I think it's so important as an entrepreneur to, even though in the beginning, all I focused on and all we focused on was selling, selling, selling 300 phone calls a day, 300 letters a day, and not letting ourselves up for air unless we did that. And I, we were the only salespeople, my partner and I. And so that was critical. But the question is, how do you get to the next level, I think the key thing is to not be the company's only salesperson, or even most important salesperson, I mean, I guess, ultimately, the founder and CEO could potentially always be the most important. But by that, I mean as far as how they spend their time, you know, I think it was so important that we quick quickly built a top tier, world class sales organization. And so every bit of profit that came in, really went toward hiring these people and training them, developing them and retaining them so that they were our connection with the clients over time. And I think that was so critical, because, you know, ultimately, we did have the largest sales team in the industry, but that was by design, over 600, full time sales people. And it was necessary because had we not really focused on that we couldn't have built the company, it was all about hiring the salespeople. So we could work on the business rather than in the business. Give us a

David Novak 11:30

snapshot of transperfect. In the end the business that is today the business that you developed.

Liz Elting 11:36

Well, I did sell it five years ago. But when we started the company and our out of an NYU dorm room, and then when I sold, the goal had been to become the world's largest, with offices around the world, a real one stop shop. In 2017. When I sold, we finally accomplished that goal, we became the world's largest language solutions company with offices in over 100 100 cities around the world. And the highest revenue, you know, of any company out there and you know, over 5000 full time employees, and that was the company and basically any foreign language related service we did also litigation support services, staffing, solutions, technology solutions, that was the company basically anything a client needed in a foreign language or a technology solution in order to conduct global business.

David Novak 12:30

What was the base business you had when you first started out? And then what was the next big new area you went into?

Liz Elting 12:37

So really, the base business was document translation. But the plan was to do anything in a foreign language their company needed. That was the plan from day one. And then as time went on, as we spoke to our clients, we realized and our employees, we got a lot of ideas for how to grow. And that was starting related lines of business like some of the ones I mentioned. But initially, you know, document translation, and then anything in a foreign language was really the core.

Koula Callahan 13:07

Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guest? Well, I do and I know a lot of you do, too. My name is Kula Callahan and together with David I host the three more questions podcast that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes and in them I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading yum brands and all of His answers are super practical and inspiring. Like this great insight David shared and one of our most recent, three more questions episodes.

David Novak 13:50

You know, so many ideas get killed before they've had any kind of opportunity to develop. So let people get their ideas out and build on it. But if you start out by judging everything that comes out and say, Nah, that won't work that will work. Oh, you just squash creativity, just the spin judgment. Let things play out.

Koula Callahan 14:16

Get the three more questions podcasts in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love. Just subscribe to how leaders lead wherever you get your podcasts.

David Novak 14:34

You grew your team to over 5000 employees, you had over 100 offices worldwide $1.1 billion in revenue. How did you develop the leadership skills so that the business didn't pass you by?

Liz Elting 14:47

So it was a lot of learning by doing and making plenty plenty of mistakes along the way? Because, you know, I had had virtually no training I had worked at the other translation company for three years, but I had had very little experience there. So it was really making mistakes and learning from them. And then making sure I didn't do them again, what's one area

David Novak 15:11

of leadership lives that you you felt especially challenged in as you were scaling the business.

Liz Elting 15:17

In the early days, as I mentioned, we were working so hard to sell, sell, sell, so that we could get the money to hire people and grow. So we would do that. And then we had enough work, where we needed to hire people to get the work done. And we needed people so badly that we would bring people in. And sometimes we made mistakes on what we looked for in a person we hired. That was one thing, but the other big thing was, we, in the early days, asked too much of our employees, we had so much work because we had worked so hard to get that work. And our employees had worked so hard to get that work. But then they were working crazy hours, they were pulling all nighter, after all nighter. And we needed to have them do that to get the work done. We couldn't bring in the people fast enough. But that's no good. We thought, Okay, we'll just give them a bonus, we'll just give them a raise. But over time, of course, that doesn't work. They need their life, they will be miserable, they will burn out. And we lost a lot of people in the early days, because we expected too much. And we couldn't just take care of it with paying a bonus. So that was a big mistake we learned and through that we learned things like okay, we need to set it up. So we have different shifts. And after that we added shifts within a timezone. For example, in New York, where our headquarters is we also made it so in our other offices around the world, they were covering our second shifts, and our third shifts. So when the workday was done in New York, then it could, you know, go to another timezone, you know, in Hawaii, or wherever, and so on. And then you know, Tokyo, and so on. So we found ways around it. But initially, we had a lot of turnover,

David Novak 16:58

you know, every leader has to go through those learnings that really impact themselves and other people. And that's a great example. And you say that your business was all about sales at the beginning. I mean, you were sales sales sales. Tell us about Jack Daly, and what you learned from him.

Liz Elting 17:17

Yes. And Jack Daly is terrific. One thing I did early on a couple years into the business is I joined something called Why do Young Entrepreneurs Organization and was very excited to do that. And one of the first programs that they had the first lectures was with Jack Dailey. And Jack Daly's lecture was about how to manage sales managers. And I went to it. And this was a few years into the business. And we didn't, we were the sales managers. You know, I had my partner with the sales managers, but I thought I'll go listen to Jack. And he just gave all his recommended ideas, advice on how to manage sales managers. So from that, I thought, okay, we better get some sales managers in place, we got to really hire this world class sales team. So he gave me amazing ideas. I was wowed by him. And what I started doing after that is I brought him into our company. And we started bringing him in when we had about five salespeople. And he would speak to them altogether in the morning, and all of us and kind of give his ideas. And then in the afternoon, he would meet with each of them one to one, and talk to them about their goals and how they were going to get there. And he was wonderful. And he came back once every year or two for the entire 25 plus years, I was with my company, until we had over 600 salespeople at the end, he was just getting jumping on tables, motivating the 600 Plus salespeople all together. But he started when we were about five salespeople. So he was wonderful. What did

David Novak 18:45

he teach you about yourself that made you a better salesperson?

Liz Elting 18:48

You know, he taught us a lot of things that weren't even only related to sales. Like for example, I can think of some of his lessons which were hire slowly, fire quickly. That was one of his sayings. Another was, you know, don't have a big party when people go away from your company when they quit have the big party when they're coming in. So some of these ideas didn't just relate to sales. I'm just thinking back. But I mean, I think it was just be really, you know, tough on yourself with your goals. You know, make sure you have your goals down on paper. And that's daily goals, weekly goals, monthly goals, quarterly goals, annual goals, make sure you have them on paper, and then make sure you then go back from there and figure out whatever you need to do to deliver them. And then the other piece of it that he shared was, make sure you share those goals with people. You don't just put them down for yourself. You make sure you announce them to your internal board or you know, your board of directors, whatever it is, and that was very valuable. I've read

David Novak 19:51

where you're a big believer in these goals, but goals with deadlines. Yes. So how did you implement that your company? How did you drive that deep in the organization?

Liz Elting 20:03

Oh, absolutely. And I because I think that really is the key, or was the key for, for me coming up with goals with a deadline. And I think that starts with when I started as a salesperson or when our salespeople started, just as far as the actions we need to take, like making 300 phone calls a day, sending out 300 letters. And now maybe those letters would be emails or something like that, but not letting the day pass without requiring ourselves to do them being tough on ourselves. And, you know, giving ourselves little rewards when we do 25 or 50, or 100, letting ourselves get up for a break up for a sandwich up for a five minute walk, but not letting the day pass without doing those things. So I think that's on a daily basis. You know, as far as other goals with deadlines on a big higher level, basically, with the goal being to open an office in every major city around the world. I said, Okay, our first external offices, need to be in these cities, and basically put down on paper, okay, in q1, we'll do San Francisco, q2, will open Atlanta, q3, Washington, DC, q4 Chicago, and then held ourselves to those goals. And, you know, they weren't the hardest things in the world, because we really started with one person in each office. And then of course, those people had goals where they had to sell a certain amount. And as soon as they did, we could add people. And then when those two sold a certain amount, we could add people, and so on, and so on, but really sticking to the goals. And you know, as I said, on a daily level, on an individual basis, and then as far as the offices, the company is added, and basically, for every person adding to their team, what do

David Novak 21:50

you think was the most important thing you did to build a world class sales organization?

Liz Elting 21:57

So basically finding people who were very entrepreneurial, and aligning their incentives with the company. So when the company did well, they did well, or when their office did well, they did well, in basically as far as how that worked is they would come in. And as far as compensation, they might make a little less than they would in a regular job. But then if they sold and were successful, and really built an office or built a team, they would make more money than they could, anywhere else in the industry, and perhaps anywhere else in a company. So that from a compensation standpoint was very important. But these people, you know, they were entrepreneurial, they were very driven by the idea of building their own organization within the company. So I think that was very important. I think the way we paid people was very valuable, a commission that never sunsets, you know, so that your 10 of a client, they're making the same amount as they would in year one, I think that's very important. I think really hiring the best, most motivated people and then getting out of their way, you know, letting them that's so so important. Not micromanaging? Because so many of them, they could do it so much better than I could and, you know, that's the whole concept of hiring people who are smarter than you are, and a little cliche, cliche, but boy, is it true, right? I mean, that was not that hard for me. I could find people who were smarter than I was and better, how did

David Novak 23:29

you develop that security? To hire people smarter, better than you? I mean, you know, was it easy for you to get out of the way?

Liz Elting 23:38

Yes. Because I think I, you know, I know what I'm better at. And I know what things I'm not so good at, there are plenty of other things to do at the company. Right? So that wasn't a problem for me at all. And, you know, I think the whole idea is with hiring, it's just making sure you hire people who impressed you, you know, when they walk in the interview, they may be young, just out of college. But you can tell when they're impressive. And they there are so many that are impressive. And if they are, then why would you not want them there, if you can envision them there in five years and 10 years, leading a team of 100 200 people, that's an opportunity, and I was just so excited to have that opportunity and to go for it.

David Novak 24:18

You started out as the basically the Chief Sales Officer you're pounding, you know, knocking on doors, sending emails, you know, the business grows and grows, how did you step up and carve out the time to think about the new growth vehicles and the vision for the company that would take you down new paths?

Liz Elting 24:38

Well, what was nice is, you know, we definitely focused on building that sales team early on, and then related to what you're saying. We got so many of our great ideas for the company through both our employees and our clients. So for example, our salespeople who were on the front lines, they were talking to clients or handling big projects. And you know, one example would be when we started our Litigation Support Services Division, that was the idea of one of our salespeople who was dealing with these cases that we were doing the translation for. And so that was one another was when we became ISO certified and how that added a lot of value to our company that was from another employee. Another was when we developed our language certification, which really expanded our reach. And that was through an employee. And then, so many of the other ideas were through conversations with clients. So I think what I found is, you know, the innovation was not difficult, because we had employees and clients who were happy to share ideas with us. And, in fact, we had all kinds of ways to get these ideas from our employees, I mean, everything from certain positions required, and innovation idea, in order to be promoted into we did a lot of promotion from within, in order to be promoted, someone had to come up with a new idea. So that was the incentive. But as far as how they came up with these ideas, you know, as I said, just from dealing with the business, another way we got them was employee questionnaires, employ one on one meetings, I'm a big believer in sitting with the people for a meeting or walking with the people that you work with directly, one on one, ideally once a week, if not once every two weeks. And that's how you can get some of these great ideas. So that's the answer to your question, I think so many ideas from our employees and from our clients. And then by just stepping back, because as we all know, when we're busy in the business, we can't and stepping back and looking at the big picture also gave us a chance to come up with some of our own ideas as well.

David Novak 26:50

Now you had a co founder, who you met at NYU Stern School of Business, what made the partnership work at the beginning.

Liz Elting 26:57

So the way it worked at the beginning, we met at business school, I had the language background as far as teaching languages and working in the industry. And he liked the idea of being an entrepreneur. And I think we were both just committed to building the world's premier language solutions company and doing whatever it took. And in the early days, we were putting in a ridiculous amount of time 100 100, out 120 hours a week, for quite a few years. And we were both willing to put everything aside in our lives to do that. And we are committed and we were motivated. So I think that made it work. We did have complementary skills. However, I will say, we didn't do the best job saying, Okay, you do this, I do that? We did. I mean, of course, that's what you need and accompany to divide responsibilities. That's critical. And we didn't do that. But in spite of that we had complementary skills. And we were both beyond motivated.

David Novak 28:01

That's great. And when you started the business, I think you had a 5050 deal, right? When did you first realize that that could potentially be a problem? Or was it a problem?

Liz Elting 28:11

So the truth is, I think I realized pretty early on that it could be a problem. When we started the company, we started with no money, no money whatsoever, I had a few $1,000 life savings in the bank, got a credit card advance, but we had no money and he actually had some business school debt that we needed to take care of. So the bottom line is, when did I realize it was a problem? I think it's very early on when we're in that NYU Business School dorm room just thought we don't have money to hire an attorney to hire an accountant. So we will just file incorporation papers, and we'll be on our way, a few years into the company. What happened is he and I were boyfriend and girlfriend, and then we were engaged, and then we broke up. And at that point, I think I realized we really need the shareholders agreement, because we need to clearly define our roles or responsibilities, how decisions are made dispute resolution, what happens in the event of divorce or death, disability, and if either of us wants to stop working and sell this company, and the other doesn't, for example, so I knew we needed this for a lot of reasons not to mention, we couldn't agree constantly, constantly. So we fought, we fought so this happened about five, five or six years into it. I will say we did bring in attorneys at that point, spent the day with them and then could not agree on a shareholders agreement. We just were not both agreed to do it. So so that we went through the whole time together as CO owners, co CEOs, as for all intents and purposes 5050 owners, with no clear way of making decisions And, and it was a challenge. And then finally, it got to a point where it got really bad. And I tried again, we couldn't agree on one. And as a result, I had to pursue litigation. And I'll tell you what I did, I actually litigated to get a custodian to be put in charge to resolve deadlock in the short term, and oversee the sale of the company in the longer term whereby I could buy him out, he could buy me out, or a third party could buy us both out. But the point is, when I tell people the lesson learned is you need a shareholders agreement. Even if you have almost no money, even if you're broke, like we were, you need a proper shareholders agreement. I also recommend you not be 5050 owners with no clear decision maker, no tiebreaker. Because it can be very rocky and very challenging. And then finally, if you do have a shareholders agreement, it's important that there be a non compete between you and your partner, because that ultimately, I couldn't get and that would have been helpful to have in the end to just as far as when you're selling the company that will increase the valuation of the company.

David Novak 31:11

Yeah, makes a lot of sense. But that had to be, you know, we'll move on from this. But that had to be a lot of drama, particularly at the end before he sold, I would imagine, I mean, how did you with that drama? How did the company function? You know, you have all these people working for you? I mean, how did you manage through that lives as a leader? I mean, how do you rise above it?

Liz Elting 31:31

Yeah, that's a great question. Because that was the toughest time in my life, quite frankly. It was difficult. I think we just had to not be emotional. I mean, how can any of us not be emotional, right? That sounds crazy. But in the interest of the company, and what's best for the employees, and what was best for the client, I did my best to rise above it. But yes, it was very public, there was a lot of press on it. And I just thought, I've got to push through this and I can't quit, I could have just not pursued the litigation not gone through the litigation, not gone through the lengthy sale process. But I'm so glad I did. And I think I learned from that the importance of not quitting. And believe me, a lot of people were saying, This isn't good for the company, you should just do something where you're not working together in an expedited way. But it needed to be done as it was done. As far as the process. And you know, I think you just push through it. But it was a good learning lesson for me that sometimes you just have to stay with things until the end, when you know what's best, but all the while trying to keep the employees out of it. Much like when parents are going through a divorce, you keep the kids out of it. And that was what I tried to do. But it was crazy. It was crazy drama, it was so insane.

David Novak 32:50

Sounds like it you know, but you decided to sell your shares in the end of transperfect. But before he left, as you mentioned, you know, after 25 years, the business, you finally hit your big goal to become the largest language solutions business in the world. How do you celebrate less,

Liz Elting 33:07

it was ultimately a celebration, very emotional. At first, I felt like I was leaving my baby behind. And you know, there was so much loving and caring and emotion in the company. And I had felt like so many of those people were my family. But But that said, How did I celebrate, I finally went on my long awaited maternity leave. And what I mean by that is, I was very much in the weeds when I had both my kids and we had about 150 people at the company when I had my first son and a little more than that when I had my second son. And I couldn't take even a day of maternity leave. So so my kids were in high school visiting colleges, and I got to spend some long awaited quality time with them. So that was wonderful. I also started my foundation. And I thought, Well, isn't this great? Now I can focus on all the issues that I've been seeing are real issues in this country in this world that I haven't had time to focus on. So that's been wonderful. And then of course now I just wrote my book, dream big and when, where I'm really excited. I've really enjoyed the process because I love talking about entrepreneurship and what I learned along the way from what I did, right, and the many things I did wrong, and I've loved this process as well. So it's all been one big celebration. It's been wonderful.

David Novak 34:30

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Liz Elton in just a moment. I'm telling you, it's an incredible thing to build a billion dollar business from the ground up. That's also what rave Levine did is the co founder of the popular traffic app Waze. He joined me for a conversation on how leaders lead not too long ago and just like Liz arry has found that success often comes faster when you're not afraid of failure.

Uri Levine 34:58

At the end of the day, it's going It would be a journey of failures, right? So you're going to make mistakes throughout this journey. And there are two conclusions of that if you realize that this is going to be a journey of failure, the first one is that if you're afraid to fail, then in reality, you already failed, because you're not going to try. But even if you decide that you are not afraid to fail, and you go into this journey, the faster that you fail, you essentially increase the likelihood of being successful because you have enough time and resources and funding for another attempt, and another tried another experiment, and so forth.

David Novak 35:28

Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Ori, Episode 129, here on how leaders lead.

This foundation you started, what do you see are the tangible things you're going to do to advance women's ability to move up in the workplace and be treated the way they should be treated? I know you had a big payout that everybody knows about, you walked away with about $400 million, you got plenty of money to make a big difference. So you know, what will you specifically do to change the game?

Liz Elting 36:07

What I've tried to do related to what you're saying, David is, I really do focused on women and marginalized communities. And one of the things I do is scholarships for women undergrad, like Trinity College, where I went, and I'm on the board, and then business school, went to NYU Business School, focus on MBA scholarships, also. And then I focus on other scholarships at a few other colleges as well. And that's because, of course, education is the great equalizer. But in addition, the other another great equalizer is entrepreneurship. And so I really focus on entrepreneurs. And I do that with NYU business school, I'm part of something called Endless Frontier labs. And I have something called Elizabeth Elting ventures, and I fund women led businesses that are part of Endless Frontier Labs, which is what I think the best accelerator program in the world. I mean, we have people from all over the world participate in it, they don't have any, or they don't need to have any affiliation with NYU, and very involved in supporting those women entrepreneurs. Also, I'm supporting women entrepreneurs through the American Heart Association, I just started a Social Impact Fund there. And these women entrepreneurs are and they're women of color, generally. And they're working in their communities, addressing the social inequities related to heart disease. So doing that, lift our voices, I will mention that because it relates to your original question, that foundation was started by Gretchen Carlson, who went through a lot with sexual harassment, and working on her cars as well. So that's an important one,

David Novak 37:49

your book Dream big. And when you know, you want to share what you learned as an entrepreneur, what skills do you think are most important to have? If you're going to start and grow a business?

Liz Elting 37:59

Well, I think it's super important to feel comfortable with risk, because of course, there's going to be some risk, and you just have to get comfortable with it. Because the alternative is another kind of risk, which is, you may not lead your dream life, you're not in control of your destiny, you can't necessarily be working in your dream industry or in the dream culture within your company, you can't necessarily control how much money you make, you can't ultimately control how you spend your time. So it's worth the risk. Because if you do all the right things, it could definitely work out. And if not, so be it, you learn and you move on. But I think you need to get comfortable with risk. I think you also need to be comfortable with putting in a lot of hours. You know, I think, you know, that doesn't sound what people like what people want to hear. But I think we all know, the hours can be excruciating, you know, it can be crazy. But it's worth it. Because you can create your dream. You're creating your dream company, you're working with the kind of people who are like minded and they want to build your dream too. So again, I think it's comfortable with risk, the hours, and then people who think outside the box people who are looking for ways to do things better. You know, and I think that relates to just being curious, asking lots of questions. And then thinking, Okay, what's, what's a way to solve this? How can I come up with a better way?

David Novak 39:29

You know, in your book, you say verbs are fundamental for dreams. Explain.

Liz Elting 39:35

Yeah. Because if you don't have a verb, it's just a dream or a wish. And I think dreams are great because that's how you get inspired to do it. But it'll then just being a will end up being a wish. So verbs meaning actions, and I've always been a language person with English too. I mean, I love my verbs. And it's all about actions because I think a lot of people love the idea of being entrepreneurs, but it's about the actions you take day in and day out to get there over a sustained period of time. And I think they're critical.

David Novak 40:08

You know, this has been so much fun. Liz and I wanted to have some more with a lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?

Liz Elting 40:15

Yes, sure.

David Novak 40:16

All right, here we go. What's one word others would use to best describe you?

Liz Elting 40:21

I would say authentic.

David Novak 40:23

What would you say is one word that best describes you?

Liz Elting 40:26

I hope kind. I'd like I like to believe unkind.

David Novak 40:29

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself. Who would it be?

Liz Elting 40:33

I would say Taylor Swift. Because she's got it all together. I mean, she's got she's figured it out. Right? The challenge the brains that the ability to entertain? I mean, she's amazing.

David Novak 40:46

Absolutely. What's your biggest pet peeve?

Liz Elting 40:50

I like when people are on time. I don't like it when people are late. I don't like when people are late.

David Novak 40:55

What's your favorite language to speak?

Liz Elting 40:57

You know, I love Spanish. I just had the most amazing time my junior year in Spain, and the people the culture, I just feel like I'm in another world when I'm speaking Spanish.

David Novak 41:10

What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you absolutely never miss?

Liz Elting 41:14

I walk at least five miles a day. Awesome.

David Novak 41:17

If I turned the radio on in your car, what would I hear?

Liz Elting 41:21

Jimmy boss, it

David Novak 41:25

was something about you a few people would know.

Liz Elting 41:27

I'm very competitive. But I think people might know that.

David Novak 41:31

That's the end of the lightning round. Okay. But I want to ask you, you say that, you know, you're competitive? How do you manage your competitive instincts? I mean, you obviously, you know, dream big and win wins a big part. You know, it's like, if you had to say, what's the biggest part of the book, the dreaming big or the and when the ideas,

Liz Elting 41:51

you know, whatever you're doing, and I think what I mean by it is don't don't just think, Okay, I'm going to do it. to a small degree, like, think big, I think it's so important to think big, because if you think big, you may not achieve everything, you want to get the biggest in your industry, but you but you just might and, and you will get damn near close if you do. So I think it's very important to dream big. And then as far as winning, you know, what defines the win, I mean, getting close to achieving the actual dream. And I feel like whether it's doing it in the first part of your career, or, you know, what I went through, in the later parts of my career, what I went through and with, you know, I had my litigation, then I have my foundation work, and now my book work and I just think it's whatever you're doing, you know, go for shoot for the stars. And then you will, you know, when in some way, and maybe it's the actual ultimate goal.

David Novak 42:51

In your book, you have a quote, and I love this is which is work today, like no one else will. So you can live and give tomorrow, like no one else can. You know, when you look forward now and you think about your own dreams? What do you see as your unfinished business?

Liz Elting 43:09

I think the unfinished business is trying to leave the world a better place than when I came into it or than it is now. And there are a lot of causes to work on. Right there. All the different things that I and so many other people are working. And so that's my unfinished business, just keep trying to give them back and make the world a better place.

David Novak 43:32

Last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader?

Liz Elting 43:38

You know, I mentioned before the one on one meetings, and I think they are so important, you know, basically talking to your people, and finding out what's important to them. And sometimes you actually have to ask more than once, like, how are you? They say, Fine. Now? How are you really, oh, everything's good. And then you might have to ask five times to get to the answer. And part of it is personally. And then part of it is respect with respect to business. And that way you can manage them, right, you can make sure you're addressing their personal needs, you can also make sure you're helping them fulfill their long term goal goals. So I think it's so much about talking to your people, and of course listening to them. And then making sure you're giving each individual what they need, so that they want to work for you and with you and stay at your company a very long time.

David Novak 44:31

I have to ask you another question while I have here, because it's interesting, you know, you work these incredible long hours. And I think we all do when we're building something and you know, you talked about 100 hour weeks, 120 hour weeks. Did you ever burn yourself out? And if you did, how did you replenish your energy?

Liz Elting 44:48

Yes, I did burn myself out over the 26 years. I mean, yes, and it got so much better. And I guess that's what happens to people over that long period of time and money. In the early days, it was crazy. How did I replenish my energy? I think as time went on, I was lucky enough to have kids and get to spend time with my kids. And of course, when I did get to spend time with my kids, that is the most kind of uplifting time that I ever had. I mean, being with them being with them when they're little when they're learning to walk and learning to jog. So that was very fulfilling. And I think traveling with them, when I got the opportunity, getting exercise, I think that that was wonderful. But yeah, I think it's really important. Yeah, you have to step away from it, or you will completely burn out. But it was all about the family in the end. Because the last thing I'll say on it is, I think when you're doing it, you don't have a lot of time for hobbies. So our I didn't. And so it was kind of all work. But then boy, if I wasn't working, wanted to spend every minute with my kids, and that was the best.

David Novak 46:03

You know, at yum brands, I got a lot of big ideas pitched to me. And it was my job to ask the right questions and make sure those big ideas, were really going to help our business. One of those questions I always asked after hearing your big idea was now what? What do we really need to do to make this happen? Because here's the thing, those big dreams and ideas are important, but they're just the beginning. The real success comes when you do the hard work of executing them. And that's a big theme I see and how Liz leads from the get go at transperfect. She was all about action and execution were their daily quota of 300 sales calls that really built the business. And she built that bias towards action into her culture. She made sure teams set goals and she incentivized everybody to achieve them. That's an important takeaway to your life as a leader to dreams and ideas and strategies are all crucial. But it's easy to get stuck there. Develop a strong bias towards taking action, both for yourself and your team, set goals with deadlines, create incentives, and just be willing to jump in and get started. You've got to execute. You've got to make sure things get done. So I got to ask you, now what? This is a big idea, but we got to turn it into action right? This week as you close out your meetings and workdays. Try that question for yourself. Ask yourself now what? So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders develop a bias towards action. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Mike White, the former chairman and CEO of Direct TV,

Mike White 47:51

integrity and character comes first. No question. But second in a world of change. You got to look around the corner and skate to where the puck is going to quote Gretzky. And in this world in particular, the changes coming so fast and furious. You've got to make sure you know what to keep and what to change. And that's a constant challenge.

David Novak 48:10

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead. We're every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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