[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2843/dont-wait-to-deal-with-problems","id",2843,"title","Don’t wait to deal with problems","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.800\nOne of the things I always say is, I always ask our team, I say,\n\n2\n00:00:02.800 --> 00:00:04.720\n\"When is, and this is all talked to all employees.\"\n\n3\n00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:07.840\nI'll say, \"When is the best time to solve a problem?\"\n\n4\n00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:09.840\nThey kind of look at me and I look like,\n\n5\n00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:14.320\n\"The minute you know you have one because problems do not get smaller.\"\n\n6\n00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.120\nAnd so we now are championing to this day,\n\n7\n00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.360\neven though I would say almost 40 percent of our technical talent\n\n8\n00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:23.280\nwasn't here when that happened.\n\n9\n00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:26.080\nOnce a year, we have a safety week,\n\n10\n00:00:26.080 --> 00:00:29.440\nand we start every meeting with the safety protocols\n\n11\n00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:30.640\nand a safety message.\n\n12\n00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:32.960\nBut once a year, we dedicate a whole week,\n\n13\n00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.960\nand we remind people for those employees that weren't even here\n\n14\n00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.480\nwhen the ignition switch recall happened in 2014,\n\n15\n00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:42.880\nwhat it was and why we do what we do,\n\n16\n00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.960\nand how we all have to be committed to making sure we solve problems early,\n\n17\n00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:49.280\nand we never let something like that happen again.\n\n18\n00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.720\nSo it was difficult, don't get me wrong.\n\n19\n00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:56.080\nI thank my team because I got through it as we worked together as a team,\n\n20\n00:00:56.080 --> 00:01:00.400\nand it was also just kind of something that's foundational for me right now.\n\n21\n00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:02.880\nWe're going to do the right thing even when it's hard.\n\n22\n00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:05.520\nAnd I think a lot of times when people have tough situations,\n\n23\n00:01:05.520 --> 00:01:07.440\nI think they've got a decision to make.\n\n24\n00:01:07.440 --> 00:01:09.920\nYou don't. You have to do the right thing.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1205729,"end_time",1275789,"keywords","Problem, issue, crisis, safety","slug","dont-wait-to-deal-with-problems","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","DncdKKjOoBU7NEOqHXxR00LS3tZR4PMcYaBsI02fiYr0200","mux_asset_id","W902KdR102TqOkJrS8jy3PgSd6XWORyrKXgpB8Wmtko9E","leader_id",222,"episode_id",374,"updated_at","2025-04-10T18:25:50.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2843/dont-wait-to-deal-with-problems","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_62":112,"_59":112,"_113":114,"_69":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":75,"_35":36,"_39":76,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Seek the truth","seek-the-truth","Learn how to make better decisions by seeking the truth, even when it’s uncomfortable or inconvenient. Discover the power of “ambidextrous leadership.” Plus, one way you can make everyone in your company feel more valued.","summary","

Ever made a decision based on limited info, internal spin, or wishful thinking? You’re not alone—but there’s a better way.In this episode, David sits down with General Motors Chair and CEO, Mary Barra. She shares how a relentless commitment to the truth leads to better decisions, stronger teams, and a culture built on trust. If you want to lead with more clarity and less guesswork, don’t miss this conversation.

You’ll also learn:

How a crisis shapes your culture
The #1 thing you need to do to make sure your people feel valued
A strategy to make big problems way more manageable
What “ambidextrous leadership” is – and why it’s crucial to your success

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.960\nSeek truth was really our message to the entire company.\n\n2\n00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:06.600\nSo don't just give us something that optimizes your area.\n\n3\n00:00:06.600 --> 00:00:10.240\nBut it was that frustration of decisions coming to us\n\n4\n00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:11.600\nthat weren't the whole truth\n\n5\n00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:14.080\n'cause they didn't look at it from an enterprise perspective.\n\n6\n00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:15.120\nLet's get to the truth.\n\n7\n00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:17.720\nThat what someone wants it to be, what is it?\n\n8\n00:00:17.720 --> 00:00:19.840\nHow can you demonstrate it with information,\n\n9\n00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:21.120\ndata and information,\n\n10\n00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:23.560\nso we can make the very best decision quickly.\n\n11\n00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:28.560\n(silence)\n\n12\n00:00:28.560 --> 00:00:33.920\n- Hey, when you're leading at the highest level,\n\n13\n00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.240\nthere's one thing you can't afford to lose sight of.\n\n14\n00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:38.640\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n15\n00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.480\nI'm David Novak and every week,\n\n16\n00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:43.760\nI have conversations with the very best leaders in the world\n\n17\n00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:46.520\nto help you become the best leader that you can be.\n\n18\n00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:48.320\nMy guest today is Mary Berra,\n\n19\n00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.320\nthe chair and CEO of General Motors.\n\n20\n00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.520\nShe started working at GM when she was just 18 years old,\n\n21\n00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:57.840\ninspecting fenders and bumpers, no less.\n\n22\n00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:00.240\nAnd today, she's leading the company\n\n23\n00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:02.560\nthrough one of the biggest transformations\n\n24\n00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:04.520\nin automotive history.\n\n25\n00:01:04.520 --> 00:01:08.000\nAnd you know what really impresses me about Mary?\n\n26\n00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.920\nIt's her relentless commitment to seek the truth,\n\n27\n00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:13.720\nto push for clarity and intellectual honesty\n\n28\n00:01:13.720 --> 00:01:16.720\nas she and her team make decisions.\n\n29\n00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:19.360\nUnfortunately, a lot of leaders end up making decisions\n\n30\n00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:21.880\nbased on assumptions or wishful thinking\n\n31\n00:01:21.880 --> 00:01:24.960\nor just the spin of internal politics.\n\n32\n00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:27.840\nBut as you'll learn today, the best decisions\n\n33\n00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.080\nand the strongest teams are built\n\n34\n00:01:30.080 --> 00:01:34.720\nwhen everyone aligns around what's real, not what's convenient.\n\n35\n00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:37.440\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend\n\n36\n00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:39.920\nand soon to be yours, Mary Berra.\n\n37\n00:01:45.240 --> 00:01:50.240\nI read that you drove a Chevrolet Chavette in college.\n\n38\n00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:54.480\nYou know, what did that say about who you were\n\n39\n00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.680\nat that time and stage of your life?\n\n40\n00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.240\n- Well, it's a really funny story, David,\n\n41\n00:01:58.240 --> 00:02:01.240\nbecause actually, you know, my dad was a dye maker\n\n42\n00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:02.800\nat Pontiac Mortar Division.\n\n43\n00:02:02.800 --> 00:02:05.360\nAnd so we had gone to the Pontiac Motor Lodge\n\n44\n00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:08.600\nand we had put a down payment on a firebird.\n\n45\n00:02:08.600 --> 00:02:10.920\nAnd so I was thinking, wow, this is really great.\n\n46\n00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:12.400\nI'm gonna be driving to firebird.\n\n47\n00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:15.120\nWent home and my mother reminded both my dad\n\n48\n00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.800\nand I that I needed to pay for college.\n\n49\n00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:21.440\nAnd so we had to go back and get the deposit back\n\n50\n00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:23.840\nand then that's when I ended up with a Chavette.\n\n51\n00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:25.640\nBut I have to tell you, it was a great vehicle,\n\n52\n00:02:25.640 --> 00:02:30.360\ngot me through college and after I used it and I was at work.\n\n53\n00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.920\nSo I was able to buy another vehicle.\n\n54\n00:02:32.920 --> 00:02:35.200\nIt got my brother through med school.\n\n55\n00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:37.880\nSo it was a very reliable Chevy Chavette.\n\n56\n00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:39.160\n- I have to ask you this one.\n\n57\n00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:40.560\nI'm sure everybody wants to know, you know,\n\n58\n00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:42.120\nwhat are you driving this week?\n\n59\n00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:47.120\n- Well, right now I'm waiting actually\n\n60\n00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:49.800\nfor a new Blazer EV to come in.\n\n61\n00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:52.480\nBefore that I was driving a Hummer SUV.\n\n62\n00:02:52.480 --> 00:02:55.280\nBut we also have a Yukon,\n\n63\n00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:57.680\none of our brand new internal combustion engine\n\n64\n00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:00.960\nmid-size or full-size SUVs.\n\n65\n00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:02.640\nAnd so that's what I'm driving,\n\n66\n00:03:02.640 --> 00:03:03.880\nbut I'm waiting for that Blazer.\n\n67\n00:03:03.880 --> 00:03:05.920\nI like to always have one ice and one EV\n\n68\n00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:08.360\nto just make sure I'm looking at all of our vehicle.\n\n69\n00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:10.640\n- How often do you switch up the cars you drive?\n\n70\n00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:12.320\n- Well, that's the best part of my job.\n\n71\n00:03:12.320 --> 00:03:14.880\nI, you know, anytime I want to drive one of our new vehicles\n\n72\n00:03:14.880 --> 00:03:16.840\nto experience it for a weekend\n\n73\n00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:18.840\nor for a period of time I can do that.\n\n74\n00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:20.480\nSo that's one of the best parts of working\n\n75\n00:03:20.480 --> 00:03:23.320\nfor a car company is getting to experience all our vehicles.\n\n76\n00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:24.160\n- I love it.\n\n77\n00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:27.360\nAnd how do you team take a look at competition?\n\n78\n00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:29.360\nDo you drive the competitors cars as well or?\n\n79\n00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:30.680\n- We do, we do.\n\n80\n00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:33.080\nI would say the people that probably spend the most time\n\n81\n00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:37.160\ndriving our competitor vehicles are our chief engineers\n\n82\n00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:38.640\nand our head of product development.\n\n83\n00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:41.600\nThey generally, many times a month on Fridays,\n\n84\n00:03:41.600 --> 00:03:44.080\nthey have drives out at our Milford Proving Grounds\n\n85\n00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.680\nand we'll drive our vehicles along with the competition\n\n86\n00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.760\nto make sure we know what we got to do to win\n\n87\n00:03:49.760 --> 00:03:51.400\nand have the best vehicle and segment.\n\n88\n00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.520\n- You know, it's clear, you know, I've done from all my research,\n\n89\n00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.200\nyou know, you're known for being a very innovative leader,\n\n90\n00:03:57.200 --> 00:03:59.640\nsomeone who really invents not only your company,\n\n91\n00:03:59.640 --> 00:04:02.760\nbut yourself and you're making major strides.\n\n92\n00:04:02.760 --> 00:04:04.840\nYou know, you know, looking out,\n\n93\n00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:07.520\nwhat do you think vehicles be like 10 years from now?\n\n94\n00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:09.400\nAnd what should be on people's minds?\n\n95\n00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:11.320\n- Well, I think there's two things.\n\n96\n00:04:11.320 --> 00:04:13.960\nYou know, everybody's talking about the change in propulsion,\n\n97\n00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.040\ngoing from internal combustion engine to EVs.\n\n98\n00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.480\nAnd I think that will happen because EVs are fun,\n\n99\n00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:20.800\nfun to drive, instant torque,\n\n100\n00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.800\nand you never need to go to the gas station.\n\n101\n00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:25.480\nBut there's two trends I think that are even more significant.\n\n102\n00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:29.200\nOne is the fact that the vehicle is now a software platform.\n\n103\n00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:31.000\nI think that there's so much we can do\n\n104\n00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.000\nto provide the customer with even better experiences\n\n105\n00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.560\nintegrating their life and their phone\n\n106\n00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:38.800\nand everything into the vehicle, but doing it safely.\n\n107\n00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:42.360\nSo I think continuing to make life safer\n\n108\n00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.560\nand more convenient from that perspective.\n\n109\n00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:47.800\nBut then I also think there's a huge opportunity with autonomy.\n\n110\n00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.720\nAnd right now, General Motors, we're really proud\n\n111\n00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:51.500\njust within the last month,\n\n112\n00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:54.480\nMotor Trend named our driver assistance technology,\n\n113\n00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:57.480\nSuper Cruise as the best in the industry.\n\n114\n00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.840\nAnd, but I think we can continue to improve upon that,\n\n115\n00:05:00.840 --> 00:05:03.800\ngetting all the way to what is called L4 autonomy,\n\n116\n00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:06.640\nwhere literally the car is responsible and drive.\n\n117\n00:05:06.640 --> 00:05:07.880\nRight now, driver assistance,\n\n118\n00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:10.880\nyou're still responsible, you've got to be paying attention.\n\n119\n00:05:10.880 --> 00:05:12.520\nBut it's a journey that will get there.\n\n120\n00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:15.840\nSo I believe in 10 years, we'll be there\n\n121\n00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:18.080\nand people will drive when it's fun to drive,\n\n122\n00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:20.120\nbut when it's not, they'll have the opportunity\n\n123\n00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:21.520\nfor the vehicle to drive itself.\n\n124\n00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:22.880\n>> It's so interesting and fascinating\n\n125\n00:05:22.880 --> 00:05:24.880\njust how much your industry is changing.\n\n126\n00:05:24.880 --> 00:05:26.880\nAnd I would imagine as a CEO,\n\n127\n00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:29.400\nyou've had to really evolve the culture\n\n128\n00:05:29.400 --> 00:05:32.000\nto get people to really be on top of everything\n\n129\n00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.640\nthat's going on in terms of technology and AI\n\n130\n00:05:34.640 --> 00:05:36.240\nand where things are going.\n\n131\n00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.280\nHow have you gone about doing that?\n\n132\n00:05:38.280 --> 00:05:41.920\n>> Well, I think as the battery technology came in\n\n133\n00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:43.760\nas software became so important,\n\n134\n00:05:43.760 --> 00:05:45.960\nit's bringing in people outside the company\n\n135\n00:05:45.960 --> 00:05:49.000\nwho are experts who really bring that expertise.\n\n136\n00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.920\nAnd so hiring people who have spent time\n\n137\n00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:53.800\nin the battery industry, well before electric vehicles\n\n138\n00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:58.760\nwere the focus or our software team is led by people\n\n139\n00:05:58.760 --> 00:06:03.600\nfrom Apple and Meta, Amazon, Microsoft, Google.\n\n140\n00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.440\nAnd the thing that was interesting about that\n\n141\n00:06:06.440 --> 00:06:08.600\nis we were able to track that talent\n\n142\n00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.840\nbecause they want to be part of this industry\n\n143\n00:06:11.840 --> 00:06:13.880\nand what a great American company like General Motors\n\n144\n00:06:13.880 --> 00:06:17.960\ncan do to lead going into our next 100 years.\n\n145\n00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:21.880\nSo it's been fun, but then what I think the key has been\n\n146\n00:06:21.880 --> 00:06:25.120\nis marrying that knowledge and that expertise\n\n147\n00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:26.960\nfrom the outside in with the people\n\n148\n00:06:26.960 --> 00:06:28.720\nwho know how to do great vehicles,\n\n149\n00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.960\nreally well, deeply integrated, beautifully designed.\n\n150\n00:06:31.960 --> 00:06:35.120\nAnd so it's really been integrating the new,\n\n151\n00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.640\npeople with new skill sets to people with the skill sets\n\n152\n00:06:37.640 --> 00:06:40.040\nyou really need to put great cars, trucks and crossovers\n\n153\n00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:40.960\non the road.\n\n154\n00:06:40.960 --> 00:06:44.720\nAnd that's something that's been really fun to see happen\n\n155\n00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:46.520\nand to get the teams to work well together.\n\n156\n00:06:46.520 --> 00:06:48.600\n>> Yeah, I would say that'd be a heck of a challenge\n\n157\n00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.880\nas you basically have the legacy members of GM\n\n158\n00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:53.600\nthat know the business so well.\n\n159\n00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.560\nYou bring in all these new people.\n\n160\n00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:57.120\nWhat is the single biggest thing you've done\n\n161\n00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.200\nto integrate people with such different backgrounds?\n\n162\n00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:01.960\n>> Well, I think first of all is making sure\n\n163\n00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:04.280\neverybody got to know each other and spending time\n\n164\n00:07:04.280 --> 00:07:07.240\nwith each other because it's hard to dislike someone\n\n165\n00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.160\nwhen you get to know them.\n\n166\n00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:10.600\nIt's easy when it's that person way over there,\n\n167\n00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:13.000\nthe person on the West Coast, not in Detroit.\n\n168\n00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.160\nSo a lot of it's been spending time together\n\n169\n00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.920\ngetting to know each other, but then making sure,\n\n170\n00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:20.800\nI think there's been a healthy respect going both ways of,\n\n171\n00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:22.640\nwell, this software and the way you do it\n\n172\n00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:24.040\nis really make it our vehicles better.\n\n173\n00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:26.640\nAnd oh my gosh, I didn't realize how complex it was\n\n174\n00:07:26.640 --> 00:07:28.040\nto put a great vehicle on the road.\n\n175\n00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.200\nSo I think a core tenant is getting the teams together\n\n176\n00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:33.080\nand then they really respect the work\n\n177\n00:07:33.080 --> 00:07:35.520\nof the other individual and learn we're only gonna win\n\n178\n00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:36.760\nif we work together.\n\n179\n00:07:36.760 --> 00:07:39.240\nSo there were some bumpy spots there that we had to work\n\n180\n00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.800\nthrough, but we made it very clear\n\n181\n00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:46.560\nand we were gonna change or we weren't going to win.\n\n182\n00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.520\nAnd I think the great leaders rose to the occasion.\n\n183\n00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:50.360\n>> Absolutely.\n\n184\n00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:53.560\nAnd I can't wait to hear how you are leading the GM,\n\n185\n00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:56.120\nbut first I wanna take you back.\n\n186\n00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:57.840\nWhat's the story from your childhood\n\n187\n00:07:57.840 --> 00:08:00.680\nthat you think really shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n188\n00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.000\n>> Well, I think both of my parents\n\n189\n00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.240\nwere born and raised during the oppression.\n\n190\n00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:10.240\nAnd so they understood the, I think the value of hard work\n\n191\n00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:15.280\nand the importance of work, but my mother especially\n\n192\n00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:16.960\nalso believed in the American dream.\n\n193\n00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:18.760\nSo she believed if you worked hard,\n\n194\n00:08:18.760 --> 00:08:21.080\nyou could do and be anything you wanted to be.\n\n195\n00:08:21.080 --> 00:08:22.800\nAnd I think that stuck with me,\n\n196\n00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:25.480\nbut it's this you work before you play.\n\n197\n00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.720\nIt matters the quality of work\n\n198\n00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:31.400\nand wanting to work harder than the next person\n\n199\n00:08:31.400 --> 00:08:34.240\nand be that go-to person for your boss, et cetera.\n\n200\n00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.600\nSo I think it's the power of hard work.\n\n201\n00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:40.200\n>> I understand that your father worked at GEM.\n\n202\n00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.720\nYou just mentioned that.\n\n203\n00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:44.800\nWhat kind of impression did that leave on you growing up?\n\n204\n00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:47.160\nJust his upbringing in GM?\n\n205\n00:08:47.160 --> 00:08:48.960\n>> Well, I mean, I think one, it was something\n\n206\n00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:51.360\nhe was very proud of the work he did and he showed him.\n\n207\n00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:52.440\nHe worked very hard.\n\n208\n00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.320\nHe was able to raise our family\n\n209\n00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:59.320\nand it was a great childhood that I had,\n\n210\n00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:00.600\nmy brother and I.\n\n211\n00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:02.680\nAnd so I think he was very proud\n\n212\n00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:04.400\nof what he was able to accomplish,\n\n213\n00:09:04.400 --> 00:09:06.600\nbut also then every now and then he talked about\n\n214\n00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:08.040\nthe vehicle he was working on\n\n215\n00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:09.800\nor he'd get to bring a vehicle home.\n\n216\n00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:12.280\nAnd the whole neighborhood would come over\n\n217\n00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:13.280\nto see that vehicle.\n\n218\n00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:16.720\nAnd as kids, we climb through it and look at every inch of it.\n\n219\n00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:20.200\nAnd I think that kind of was that made the industry\n\n220\n00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:22.680\nkind of a part of just who I am.\n\n221\n00:09:22.680 --> 00:09:25.440\n>> And you've been in this industry since you've been\n\n222\n00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:26.600\n18 years old.\n\n223\n00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.120\nWhat is it about the company that's kept you with it\n\n224\n00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:32.240\nall these years?\n\n225\n00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:33.960\nPeople move around so much anyway,\n\n226\n00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.360\nbut you've had tremendous continuity\n\n227\n00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.200\nand grown from within.\n\n228\n00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:41.880\nWhat's been the glue that's kept you there?\n\n229\n00:09:41.880 --> 00:09:43.600\n>> I think early in my career,\n\n230\n00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.280\nI just had so many opportunities.\n\n231\n00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:48.480\nI mean, General Motors sent me to Stanford to get my MBA.\n\n232\n00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.160\nI worked in an assembly plan.\n\n233\n00:09:50.160 --> 00:09:54.240\nI had overseas opportunities to work with our teams overseas\n\n234\n00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:55.880\nas we were globalizing.\n\n235\n00:09:55.880 --> 00:09:58.200\nAnd I got to work in many different functions.\n\n236\n00:09:58.200 --> 00:09:59.840\nI think what that taught me though,\n\n237\n00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.720\nis there's so many great people at GM who work hard\n\n238\n00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.840\nand really care, call it that Detroit grit\n\n239\n00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.280\nthat the team has and I realized\n\n240\n00:10:08.280 --> 00:10:09.800\nhow talented people were.\n\n241\n00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:13.200\nAnd so that as I was going as we were going through\n\n242\n00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.200\nthe rough times like the bankruptcy,\n\n243\n00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.120\nI knew this company had great people\n\n244\n00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:18.560\nand we could do great vehicles.\n\n245\n00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:20.320\nAnd I wanted to be a part of that.\n\n246\n00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:23.200\nNever thinking I would have the opportunity to be CEO.\n\n247\n00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:24.880\nAnd when I did and then we had to work through\n\n248\n00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:25.840\nsome of the challenges,\n\n249\n00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:27.680\nwhether it was the very devastating\n\n250\n00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:28.920\nignition switch recall,\n\n251\n00:10:28.920 --> 00:10:31.800\nbut we really learned and drove culture change\n\n252\n00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:32.960\nbecause of that.\n\n253\n00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:35.760\nAnd then managing through COVID\n\n254\n00:10:35.760 --> 00:10:37.680\nand the semiconductor challenge\n\n255\n00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:40.800\nand currently all the challenges we face today,\n\n256\n00:10:40.800 --> 00:10:43.200\nI think what keeps me here is one,\n\n257\n00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.520\nit's an exciting industry.\n\n258\n00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:47.120\nI mean, we get to be such a special part of people's lives.\n\n259\n00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.320\nI get letters from people.\n\n260\n00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:50.760\nSometimes telling me they're not happy\n\n261\n00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:51.680\nand we take care of those,\n\n262\n00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:54.120\nbut you wouldn't believe the letters I get from people\n\n263\n00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.440\ntelling me they've named their vehicle\n\n264\n00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.000\nand their vehicle's a part of their life\n\n265\n00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.920\nthat they've taken them through thick and thin.\n\n266\n00:11:00.920 --> 00:11:04.040\nAnd I think it's the excitement of the industry\n\n267\n00:11:04.040 --> 00:11:07.560\nand then being a part of this transformation\n\n268\n00:11:07.560 --> 00:11:08.680\nthat's happening right now,\n\n269\n00:11:08.680 --> 00:11:09.720\nwhen in an industry,\n\n270\n00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.440\ndo you get to be a part of so much transformation\n\n271\n00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:14.840\nand really shape what the company's gonna be?\n\n272\n00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:16.880\nThat's what excites me and motivates me every day.\n\n273\n00:11:16.880 --> 00:11:18.200\n- Yeah, and I wanted to get more into that,\n\n274\n00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.200\nbut the fact is that you started out at 18\n\n275\n00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:23.800\nand you ended up becoming the CEO,\n\n276\n00:11:23.800 --> 00:11:25.840\nyou had a lot of different jobs.\n\n277\n00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:28.160\nWhat advice can you give the people coming up\n\n278\n00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:31.120\non terms of how they can really differentiate themselves\n\n279\n00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:36.040\nand move up the ladder, particularly in a corporation?\n\n280\n00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:37.720\n- You know, so often I see people\n\n281\n00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.960\nwho are very talented and very smart,\n\n282\n00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.240\nbut are more focused on their next job\n\n283\n00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.160\nthan they are on the one they're in.\n\n284\n00:11:44.160 --> 00:11:46.320\nAnd I always say, do the job\n\n285\n00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.440\nlike you're gonna do it for the rest of your life.\n\n286\n00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:49.520\nBecause then you own it.\n\n287\n00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:51.760\nYou're not kind of passing through,\n\n288\n00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:54.600\nit's like a vehicle who washes a rental car.\n\n289\n00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:59.600\nAnd so own your job and make structural changes to it,\n\n290\n00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.320\nbuild the network you need to be more effective\n\n291\n00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.840\nand to do your job better.\n\n292\n00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.600\nAnd I think those are the people that get noticed\n\n293\n00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:08.240\nand then get the opportunity.\n\n294\n00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:09.360\nAnd then I would also say,\n\n295\n00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.480\nbe in an industry where you love the product.\n\n296\n00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:13.840\nI mean, not every day is gonna be fun\n\n297\n00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:15.200\nof going out to the proving ground\n\n298\n00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.600\nand driving cars or walking through design.\n\n299\n00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:19.960\nBut if you love the industry\n\n300\n00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.120\nand love the challenge that it brings,\n\n301\n00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.000\nI think you're gonna do a better job as well.\n\n302\n00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.480\n- You know, Mary, you obviously have such a passion\n\n303\n00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:32.080\nfor the industry and an infectious energy about you.\n\n304\n00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:36.440\nWhen you were moving up at GM,\n\n305\n00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:39.160\ncan you tell us a story of where you kind of\n\n306\n00:12:39.160 --> 00:12:41.560\ndifferentiated yourself as a leader\n\n307\n00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:43.720\nwhere people really saw that you had the capability\n\n308\n00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.920\nto do more than your job, but really, really lead people?\n\n309\n00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:48.360\n- Well, I think it started, David.\n\n310\n00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.200\nWhen I first started in the corporation,\n\n311\n00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:52.000\nI was pretty shy.\n\n312\n00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.480\nAnd so I wouldn't speak up always.\n\n313\n00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.520\nAnd then I'd be in a meeting and I'd be thinking something,\n\n314\n00:12:57.520 --> 00:12:58.800\nbut I did say it.\n\n315\n00:12:58.800 --> 00:13:00.560\nAnd then somebody else eventually would say it\n\n316\n00:13:00.560 --> 00:13:02.080\nor it wouldn't get said.\n\n317\n00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:03.480\nAnd one of the things I learned\n\n318\n00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.680\nand I got great advice from a person,\n\n319\n00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:06.840\nI had many mentors at GM,\n\n320\n00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:07.840\nbut one of the mentors said,\n\n321\n00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:09.520\nyou know, Mary, no one knows what you're thinking\n\n322\n00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:10.440\nif you don't speak up.\n\n323\n00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:11.720\nSo don't be afraid to speak it,\n\n324\n00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:12.560\nif you're wrong.\n\n325\n00:13:12.560 --> 00:13:15.640\nThat's advice I give people joining the company today.\n\n326\n00:13:15.640 --> 00:13:18.560\nBut I think it's once I got that confidence to speak up.\n\n327\n00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:21.200\nAnd then I think what differentiated me\n\n328\n00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.000\nis I would go the extra mile.\n\n329\n00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.160\nAnd I was working to make sure I didn't understand\n\n330\n00:13:26.160 --> 00:13:28.640\njust my piece of it, but the whole business.\n\n331\n00:13:28.640 --> 00:13:31.480\nAnd I think having that perspective\n\n332\n00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.200\nand really looking much broader\n\n333\n00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.440\nthan just my sole responsibility\n\n334\n00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.200\nwas how I distinguished myself in those early days.\n\n335\n00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:39.960\n- Tell me a story about when you found out\n\n336\n00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.320\nyou were gonna become the CEO.\n\n337\n00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.040\n- I understood I was in consideration.\n\n338\n00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:47.840\nAnd then my predecessor, unfortunately,\n\n339\n00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.760\nhis wife was diagnosed with an illness\n\n340\n00:13:49.760 --> 00:13:54.000\nand the whole timeline was shortened dramatically.\n\n341\n00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.440\nThe whole board was at a hotel\n\n342\n00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:58.840\nand we were having our meeting there\n\n343\n00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:01.440\nand they pulled me in and told me, you know,\n\n344\n00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.680\nI was gonna be CEO and I'm like, you know, oh my gosh.\n\n345\n00:14:04.680 --> 00:14:08.120\nAnd then I had to go right into the board room\n\n346\n00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.240\nand I didn't get a chance to tell my husband.\n\n347\n00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.360\nAnd so I was just dying that whole time\n\n348\n00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.120\nto be able to text my husband and say, oh my gosh,\n\n349\n00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:16.440\nI was selected.\n\n350\n00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.440\nAs soon as I was done, that was the first thing I did\n\n351\n00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.040\nand got home later that night.\n\n352\n00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:23.840\nAnd obviously I could tell no one,\n\n353\n00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:26.960\nbut we went and had a, just the two of us had a dinner\n\n354\n00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.760\nto celebrate very quietly.\n\n355\n00:14:28.760 --> 00:14:30.760\nAnd I'll remember that phone call\n\n356\n00:14:30.760 --> 00:14:32.560\nand that dinner for the rest of my life.\n\n357\n00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:33.400\n- Makes sense.\n\n358\n00:14:33.400 --> 00:14:36.880\nAnd being the CEO, was this something you really sought out?\n\n359\n00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:38.000\n- Well, you know, through my career,\n\n360\n00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.000\nI always was looking for ways that I continue to grow\n\n361\n00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:44.320\nand advance and I think I like leading people.\n\n362\n00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.800\nI'd like to understand what makes people tick\n\n363\n00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:49.480\nand how do you motivate them to do and be their very best?\n\n364\n00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:51.160\nHow do you provide that environment?\n\n365\n00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:54.080\nSo when I never had really thought about it,\n\n366\n00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.400\n'cause you know, frankly, at that time,\n\n367\n00:14:55.400 --> 00:14:57.320\nI was running product development,\n\n368\n00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.840\nwhich is probably one of the best jobs in the company.\n\n369\n00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.600\nAnd so when I understood I was being considered for it,\n\n370\n00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.480\nyou know, I thought about it, but then I did.\n\n371\n00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:10.480\nI wanted, I aspired to work hard to be able to achieve the role.\n\n372\n00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.280\nSo it wasn't something I planned for my whole career,\n\n373\n00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:15.320\nbut once I knew I was in the running, of course,\n\n374\n00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:17.800\nI worked hard and tried to distinguish myself\n\n375\n00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:20.080\nand was fortunate enough to be selected.\n\n376\n00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.160\n- Now Mary, you're the CEO,\n\n377\n00:15:21.160 --> 00:15:23.400\nbut you were the very first female CEO\n\n378\n00:15:23.400 --> 00:15:25.680\nof a major global automaker.\n\n379\n00:15:25.680 --> 00:15:27.760\nDid that bring a lot of extra pressure to you?\n\n380\n00:15:27.760 --> 00:15:29.520\nI have to imagine it did.\n\n381\n00:15:29.520 --> 00:15:31.680\n- You know, it did because so often people would say,\n\n382\n00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:36.040\nMary, you're the first woman CEO of an automotive company.\n\n383\n00:15:36.040 --> 00:15:37.560\nAnd I'm like, well, there's no question there.\n\n384\n00:15:37.560 --> 00:15:39.200\nI'm like, yes, that's true.\n\n385\n00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.360\nAnd I had to realize, because again, my mother taught me\n\n386\n00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.760\nthat if I worked hard, I could do and be anything.\n\n387\n00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:49.160\nSo what I didn't realize, there's a lot of young people,\n\n388\n00:15:49.160 --> 00:15:52.680\nand especially little girls who, if they didn't see someone,\n\n389\n00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:54.120\nthey didn't think they could be, you know,\n\n390\n00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.080\nit's like I cannot be what I cannot see.\n\n391\n00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:58.040\nAnd that's just not the way I was raised.\n\n392\n00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:01.240\nSo then I realized I had a really important role\n\n393\n00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.400\nto help make sure women understood.\n\n394\n00:16:03.400 --> 00:16:05.720\nYes, you can achieve these kinds of jobs.\n\n395\n00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:09.120\nAnd I also am passionate about STEM.\n\n396\n00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:14.120\nAnd so helping young ladies, young girls in elementary\n\n397\n00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.200\nor middle school, study hard in math,\n\n398\n00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.000\nstudy hard in science, understand technology,\n\n399\n00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.000\nbecause I think that technology is changing\n\n400\n00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.280\nevery industry.\n\n401\n00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:30.440\nAnd so I've realized I had a greater responsibility\n\n402\n00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.560\nto be that role model.\n\n403\n00:16:32.560 --> 00:16:34.280\nSo little girls would study\n\n404\n00:16:34.280 --> 00:16:37.480\nand believe they could be engineers and move forward.\n\n405\n00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:39.760\n- Hi everyone, it's Kula from Hal Eaters Lead.\n\n406\n00:16:39.760 --> 00:16:41.160\nAnd if you're seeing my face right now,\n\n407\n00:16:41.160 --> 00:16:43.840\nit means you're watching this interview on YouTube.\n\n408\n00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.880\nI wanna say thanks.\n\n409\n00:16:44.880 --> 00:16:46.120\nThanks for watching it on YouTube.\n\n410\n00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.920\nAnd if you love the show, subscribe to the channel\n\n411\n00:16:48.920 --> 00:16:50.400\nso you never miss an episode.\n\n412\n00:16:50.400 --> 00:16:52.720\nAnd if you like one of the episodes,\n\n413\n00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.360\nlet us know in the comments.\n\n414\n00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.360\nI wanna just give a shout out to a couple of folks\n\n415\n00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.120\nwho have left some positive reviews.\n\n416\n00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.800\nThis guy says, you are a great podcaster,\n\n417\n00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:04.720\nDavid, shout out David, you are a great podcaster.\n\n418\n00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:07.360\nSomeone else said, earn to subscribe to the channel.\n\n419\n00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:09.360\nI listened from start to end.\n\n420\n00:17:09.360 --> 00:17:12.040\nYou guys, these conversations are incredible as you know.\n\n421\n00:17:12.040 --> 00:17:14.840\nAnd if you love them, hit subscribe on our channel,\n\n422\n00:17:14.840 --> 00:17:15.920\nleave a comment.\n\n423\n00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.280\nIf you love one of the episodes,\n\n424\n00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:19.360\nit'll help us in our mission to make the world\n\n425\n00:17:19.360 --> 00:17:22.080\na better place by developing better leaders.\n\n426\n00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:25.160\nAnd we truly believe that better workplaces,\n\n427\n00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.160\nbetter communities and a better world\n\n428\n00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:28.500\nstarts with better leaders.\n\n429\n00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:31.080\nAnd when you help this podcast grow,\n\n430\n00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:32.700\nit helps us do more of that.\n\n431\n00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:34.700\nSo subscribe to the channel, let us know\n\n432\n00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:36.300\nif you love one of the shows,\n\n433\n00:17:36.300 --> 00:17:39.160\nand we might even feature you in one of the episodes.\n\n434\n00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:40.580\nSo subscribe to the channel today\n\n435\n00:17:40.580 --> 00:17:43.220\nand thank you so much for listening.\n\n436\n00:17:43.220 --> 00:17:44.960\n- You're such an out and out leader.\n\n437\n00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:46.220\nYou're clearly a leader.\n\n438\n00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:48.520\nI hesitated to even ask that question.\n\n439\n00:17:48.520 --> 00:17:50.440\nAnd I was wondering,\n\n440\n00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.920\ndid you get tired of getting that question?\n\n441\n00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.580\n- I did because I'd like to think I got the job\n\n442\n00:17:57.580 --> 00:17:59.560\nbecause I was the best person for the job.\n\n443\n00:17:59.560 --> 00:18:00.840\nSo I did get tired of it.\n\n444\n00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:02.640\nAnd that's because that's when the light bulb went on\n\n445\n00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.040\nand said, look, this is an important role for me to model\n\n446\n00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:08.440\nfor all those little girls who didn't have my mom\n\n447\n00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.880\nand their ear saying you could do and be everything.\n\n448\n00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.600\nI grew to appreciate why the question was asked so often.\n\n449\n00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:17.880\n- So you take over CEO in January of 2014\n\n450\n00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.040\nand welcome to the job\n\n451\n00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:23.160\nbecause you're immediately thrust into this situation\n\n452\n00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.560\nwhere you have to do a major product recall\n\n453\n00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:28.460\nbecause of faulty ignition switch.\n\n454\n00:18:28.460 --> 00:18:31.780\nTell me how this tested your leadership.\n\n455\n00:18:31.780 --> 00:18:34.180\n- Well, it was quite the challenge\n\n456\n00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:36.300\nbecause again, most of the leadership team\n\n457\n00:18:36.300 --> 00:18:38.100\nwas in new positions.\n\n458\n00:18:38.100 --> 00:18:40.060\nI'll never forget, I actually got the phone call\n\n459\n00:18:40.060 --> 00:18:42.540\nas I was driving home, I was pulling into the garage\n\n460\n00:18:42.540 --> 00:18:44.140\nand I actually sat in the car,\n\n461\n00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:45.220\nwas driving in an escalade,\n\n462\n00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:48.660\nsat in the escalade, understood what was happening.\n\n463\n00:18:48.660 --> 00:18:49.940\nAnd again, we were always got it like,\n\n464\n00:18:49.940 --> 00:18:51.260\nwe've got to do the right thing.\n\n465\n00:18:51.260 --> 00:18:53.260\nThe thing that a lot of people don't understand\n\n466\n00:18:53.260 --> 00:18:55.820\nis when you have something like that that happens,\n\n467\n00:18:55.820 --> 00:18:57.180\nyou don't know everything.\n\n468\n00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:00.860\nAnd so we started to meet every single day to understand\n\n469\n00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:03.520\nand started our own internal investigation.\n\n470\n00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:05.480\nWe've learned that the root issue\n\n471\n00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:08.280\nthat was causing the problem was actually engineering\n\n472\n00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:11.760\nthat had been done over a decade before in the late 90s.\n\n473\n00:19:11.760 --> 00:19:13.540\nWe were the team that was going to deal with it.\n\n474\n00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:15.800\nI think one of the things that most people didn't know,\n\n475\n00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:17.780\nwe were the ones who actually figured it out\n\n476\n00:19:17.780 --> 00:19:21.140\nand self-reported that we knew what the problem was\n\n477\n00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:26.140\nthat then started the whole ignition switch case.\n\n478\n00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:29.380\nBut we just methodically did the right things.\n\n479\n00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:31.280\nAnd we were guided by three principles.\n\n480\n00:19:31.280 --> 00:19:33.160\nWe were gonna be transparent.\n\n481\n00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:34.460\nWe were gonna do everything we could\n\n482\n00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:36.980\nto protect the customer and we were gonna do everything\n\n483\n00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:39.960\nin our power to make sure nothing like this ever happened again.\n\n484\n00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:41.200\nAnd that's what guided us.\n\n485\n00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.940\nWe spoke a lot to the employees helping them understand\n\n486\n00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:47.940\nbecause it became so public.\n\n487\n00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:49.700\nI testified in front of Congress\n\n488\n00:19:49.700 --> 00:19:52.340\nas something I probably would recommend not having to do\n\n489\n00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:54.260\nespecially when you have a problem.\n\n490\n00:19:54.260 --> 00:19:56.460\nBut I also knew when I was there,\n\n491\n00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:57.980\nI was speaking to our employees\n\n492\n00:19:57.980 --> 00:20:00.240\nand I wanted them to be proud of me\n\n493\n00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.680\nis the way I represented the company.\n\n494\n00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:04.220\nAnd so we just kept working through it.\n\n495\n00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:05.860\nWe made lasting change.\n\n496\n00:20:05.860 --> 00:20:07.180\nOne of the things I always said is,\n\n497\n00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:08.820\nI always ask our team, I say,\n\n498\n00:20:08.820 --> 00:20:10.460\nand this is all talk to all employees.\n\n499\n00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:13.740\nI'll say, when is the best time to solve a problem?\n\n500\n00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:15.760\nAnd they kind of look at me and I look like,\n\n501\n00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:17.820\nthe minute you know you have one\n\n502\n00:20:17.820 --> 00:20:20.140\nbecause problems do not get smaller.\n\n503\n00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:22.980\nAnd so we now are championing to this day,\n\n504\n00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:27.140\neven though I would say almost 40% of our technical talent\n\n505\n00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:29.020\nwasn't here when that happened.\n\n506\n00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:32.020\nOnce a year, we have a safety week\n\n507\n00:20:32.020 --> 00:20:35.340\nand we start every meeting with the safety protocols\n\n508\n00:20:35.340 --> 00:20:36.580\nand the safety message.\n\n509\n00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:38.860\nBut once a year we dedicate a whole week\n\n510\n00:20:38.860 --> 00:20:41.900\nand we remind people for those employees\n\n511\n00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:44.300\nthat weren't even here when the ignition switch recall\n\n512\n00:20:44.300 --> 00:20:47.060\nhappened in 2014, what it was\n\n513\n00:20:47.060 --> 00:20:48.820\nand why we do what we do\n\n514\n00:20:48.820 --> 00:20:50.860\nand how we all have to be committed\n\n515\n00:20:50.860 --> 00:20:52.860\nto making sure we solve problems early\n\n516\n00:20:52.860 --> 00:20:55.060\nand we never let something like that happen again.\n\n517\n00:20:55.060 --> 00:20:58.620\nSo it was difficult, don't get me wrong.\n\n518\n00:20:58.620 --> 00:21:00.300\nI think my team, 'cause I got through it\n\n519\n00:21:00.300 --> 00:21:01.980\nas we work together as a team.\n\n520\n00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.740\nAnd it was a, it was also just kind of something\n\n521\n00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:06.300\nthat's foundational for me right now.\n\n522\n00:21:06.300 --> 00:21:08.820\nWe're gonna do the right thing even when it's hard.\n\n523\n00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:11.420\nAnd I think a lot of times when people have tough situations,\n\n524\n00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:13.300\nI think they've got a decision to make.\n\n525\n00:21:13.300 --> 00:21:14.220\nYou don't.\n\n526\n00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:15.980\nYou have to do the right thing.\n\n527\n00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:18.500\nYou know, it was interesting because when that happened,\n\n528\n00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:21.980\nI was at Young Brands and we, I brought my team together\n\n529\n00:21:21.980 --> 00:21:24.740\nand we had crisis happen a lot of times around the world\n\n530\n00:21:24.740 --> 00:21:26.260\nand we really studied what you did.\n\n531\n00:21:26.260 --> 00:21:28.580\nAnd one of the things that we are most impressed with was\n\n532\n00:21:28.580 --> 00:21:31.260\nthat you took the blame for a lot of things\n\n533\n00:21:31.260 --> 00:21:33.860\nthat you didn't directly contribute to.\n\n534\n00:21:33.860 --> 00:21:36.860\nObviously the technology happened a decade before\n\n535\n00:21:36.860 --> 00:21:39.260\nthat caused the problem.\n\n536\n00:21:39.260 --> 00:21:41.900\nYou know, what's your view on a leader stepping up\n\n537\n00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:44.740\nand taking responsibility like you did?\n\n538\n00:21:44.740 --> 00:21:47.260\nEven for things that maybe you had nothing to do with.\n\n539\n00:21:47.260 --> 00:21:50.620\n- Well, I think at the time I was the CEO,\n\n540\n00:21:50.620 --> 00:21:52.540\neverything, it stops with me.\n\n541\n00:21:52.540 --> 00:21:54.420\nBut I also, I think it was so important\n\n542\n00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.020\nto tell all our employees,\n\n543\n00:21:56.020 --> 00:21:58.700\n\"Hey, things are gonna happen outside of your control.\"\n\n544\n00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:01.780\nIf you're in the chair, you own them, you've got to fix them.\n\n545\n00:22:01.780 --> 00:22:03.140\nWe can't make excuses.\n\n546\n00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:05.060\nWe always have to be focused on the customer\n\n547\n00:22:05.060 --> 00:22:06.980\nand doing the right thing for the customer.\n\n548\n00:22:06.980 --> 00:22:11.100\nAnd it was my responsibility to fix what we needed to do.\n\n549\n00:22:11.100 --> 00:22:12.540\nAnd that's why I'm so proud of the fact\n\n550\n00:22:12.540 --> 00:22:15.340\nthat we not only changed engineering processes,\n\n551\n00:22:15.340 --> 00:22:18.060\nvalidation processes, our whole quality process\n\n552\n00:22:18.060 --> 00:22:19.380\nand how we look at things,\n\n553\n00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:21.300\nbut we also, I think, drove culture change\n\n554\n00:22:21.300 --> 00:22:24.020\nbecause it's easy to say, \"This is what I believe in,\"\n\n555\n00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:26.300\nor, \"This is what we want the values of the company to be,\n\n556\n00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:28.020\nwhen everything's going great.\"\n\n557\n00:22:28.020 --> 00:22:29.780\nIt's a lot harder to,\n\n558\n00:22:29.780 --> 00:22:32.180\nbut you have the opportunity in a crisis\n\n559\n00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:33.700\nto demonstrate to your employees.\n\n560\n00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:35.060\nWe really mean it.\n\n561\n00:22:35.060 --> 00:22:37.020\nAnd I think that was foundational\n\n562\n00:22:37.020 --> 00:22:38.620\nfor the entire company.\n\n563\n00:22:38.620 --> 00:22:41.780\nThey knew we meant it and we were right there with them.\n\n564\n00:22:41.780 --> 00:22:44.380\n- So you really drove safety and made that\n\n565\n00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:47.580\na prominent driver of your culture.\n\n566\n00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:50.940\nAnd as you look at your business today,\n\n567\n00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:52.820\nwhat are you trying to put your stamp on now\n\n568\n00:22:52.820 --> 00:22:54.860\nto make the culture even better?\n\n569\n00:22:54.860 --> 00:22:57.660\n- Well, one is continuing the strong safety message.\n\n570\n00:22:57.660 --> 00:22:59.580\nAnd that's why I said we start every meeting,\n\n571\n00:22:59.580 --> 00:23:02.180\nwe've expanded, it's not just product safety,\n\n572\n00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:05.740\nbut workplace safety and just psychological safety\n\n573\n00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:07.500\nin the workplace, making sure people\n\n574\n00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:11.020\nare in an environment where they can do their best work.\n\n575\n00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:13.820\nSo I think we've grown it and we're now working on,\n\n576\n00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:16.620\nhow power can we bring it back into the process\n\n577\n00:23:16.620 --> 00:23:19.620\nto make sure we don't ever have a problem?\n\n578\n00:23:19.620 --> 00:23:21.940\nAnd so we keep working backward from that.\n\n579\n00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:23.780\nI would think that's something important.\n\n580\n00:23:23.780 --> 00:23:26.220\nI think another thing I'm trying to drive into the company\n\n581\n00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:29.220\nis the speed at which we need to move.\n\n582\n00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:31.060\nThis industry and every industry,\n\n583\n00:23:31.060 --> 00:23:33.420\ntechnology is changing so quickly.\n\n584\n00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:35.540\nAnd yesterday's winner aren't guaranteed\n\n585\n00:23:35.540 --> 00:23:37.300\nthat they'll be tomorrow's winners.\n\n586\n00:23:37.300 --> 00:23:39.180\nSo speed matters.\n\n587\n00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:41.660\nI feel confident we have the right strategy,\n\n588\n00:23:41.660 --> 00:23:44.020\nbut can we execute it faster and better\n\n589\n00:23:44.020 --> 00:23:45.460\nthan our competition?\n\n590\n00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:46.700\nBecause that's what it's gonna take\n\n591\n00:23:46.700 --> 00:23:48.820\nin this fast paced world we live in now.\n\n592\n00:23:48.820 --> 00:23:50.460\nSo safety is a foundation,\n\n593\n00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:53.300\nculture of our companies, a foundation.\n\n594\n00:23:53.300 --> 00:23:55.820\nBut I think speed of how we innovate\n\n595\n00:23:55.820 --> 00:23:57.620\nto serve the customer better than others\n\n596\n00:23:57.620 --> 00:23:59.620\nis something we're really focused on right now.\n\n597\n00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:02.540\n- Another thing that I know you're very focused on,\n\n598\n00:24:02.540 --> 00:24:04.900\nor I read about is just you love building\n\n599\n00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:06.500\nan organization of truth tellers.\n\n600\n00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:07.940\nI mean, you're looking for the truth,\n\n601\n00:24:07.940 --> 00:24:10.540\nno matter what it is, which is great.\n\n602\n00:24:10.540 --> 00:24:12.460\nDo you have a fun story,\n\n603\n00:24:12.460 --> 00:24:14.500\nor maybe it's not so fun story\n\n604\n00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:16.900\nof where you got that kind of truth\n\n605\n00:24:16.900 --> 00:24:18.100\nand it really helped the company?\n\n606\n00:24:18.100 --> 00:24:20.620\n- Well, what we found actually one of our values\n\n607\n00:24:20.620 --> 00:24:24.180\nis seek truth because in a company this big,\n\n608\n00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.140\nwhat we found, and it was our president Mark Royce\n\n609\n00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:29.860\nand I, we would found many times people would come in\n\n610\n00:24:29.860 --> 00:24:33.060\nwith a proposal, but if it was only a part\n\n611\n00:24:33.060 --> 00:24:36.580\nof the organization, it wasn't an enterprise wide solution.\n\n612\n00:24:36.580 --> 00:24:39.180\nAnd so, and then it would be like,\n\n613\n00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:40.860\nwe felt like we were somewhat playing whack about,\n\n614\n00:24:40.860 --> 00:24:42.580\nbut okay, well, yeah, I can solve that problem,\n\n615\n00:24:42.580 --> 00:24:44.140\nbut it creates this problem over here,\n\n616\n00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:46.220\nand there's one over here and one over here.\n\n617\n00:24:46.220 --> 00:24:48.580\nAnd so seek truth was really our message\n\n618\n00:24:48.580 --> 00:24:52.100\nto the entire company from our individual contributors\n\n619\n00:24:52.100 --> 00:24:53.500\nall the way to our vice presidents\n\n620\n00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:55.780\nof give us enterprise solutions.\n\n621\n00:24:55.780 --> 00:24:58.380\nDon't just give us something that optimizes your area,\n\n622\n00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:02.060\nbut it was that frustration of decisions coming to us\n\n623\n00:25:02.060 --> 00:25:06.140\nthat weren't the whole, I would say they weren't the whole truth\n\n624\n00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:08.780\n'cause they didn't look at it from an enterprise perspective.\n\n625\n00:25:08.780 --> 00:25:11.180\nAnd that's something we still say today is,\n\n626\n00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.180\nlet's get to the truth.\n\n627\n00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:15.780\nThat what someone wants it to be, what is it?\n\n628\n00:25:15.780 --> 00:25:17.900\nHow can you demonstrate it with information,\n\n629\n00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:19.900\ndata and information so we can make\n\n630\n00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:21.580\nthe very best decision quickly?\n\n631\n00:25:21.580 --> 00:25:23.140\n- You know, you have a company where you have\n\n632\n00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:27.420\nnearly 170,000 team members around the world.\n\n633\n00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:31.580\nAnd how do you give people a sense,\n\n634\n00:25:31.580 --> 00:25:33.500\nno matter where they're at in the organization,\n\n635\n00:25:33.500 --> 00:25:34.500\nthat they count?\n\n636\n00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:37.620\n- Well, I think part of it is our work to make sure\n\n637\n00:25:37.620 --> 00:25:39.140\nthat everybody feels valued.\n\n638\n00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:41.500\nWe do regular engagement.\n\n639\n00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.500\nWe benchmark our information across other industries\n\n640\n00:25:44.500 --> 00:25:45.660\nand other companies.\n\n641\n00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:49.340\nAnd then we hold our leadership and managers, leaders\n\n642\n00:25:49.340 --> 00:25:53.820\nall the way up to my leadership team, the SLT.\n\n643\n00:25:53.820 --> 00:25:55.900\nWhat are we doing to solve what our employees\n\n644\n00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:56.860\nare telling us?\n\n645\n00:25:56.860 --> 00:25:58.900\nAnd one of the things we actually had a double down on\n\n646\n00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:01.380\nrecently is with all the change that's happening\n\n647\n00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:04.060\nin the industry, we weren't communicating enough\n\n648\n00:26:04.060 --> 00:26:05.100\nto everyone.\n\n649\n00:26:05.100 --> 00:26:08.020\nSo now we've doubled down on communicating to\n\n650\n00:26:08.020 --> 00:26:09.820\nour senior leaders, our leaders,\n\n651\n00:26:09.820 --> 00:26:12.500\nbut then doing more global tone halls\n\n652\n00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:14.140\nwhere people can ask questions.\n\n653\n00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:16.500\nThe other thing we started doing that I think is really\n\n654\n00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.300\nhelped is after every quarterly earnings,\n\n655\n00:26:19.300 --> 00:26:22.260\nthe CFO and I, we do a global town hall where\n\n656\n00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:25.900\nwe literally make comments for one or two minutes\n\n657\n00:26:25.900 --> 00:26:27.540\nand then we go into employee questions.\n\n658\n00:26:27.540 --> 00:26:29.380\nAnd we talk about what they wanna talk about.\n\n659\n00:26:29.380 --> 00:26:31.940\nWe talk about what they're not clear on.\n\n660\n00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:35.780\nAnd so that, and it's pushed out through the whole company.\n\n661\n00:26:35.780 --> 00:26:38.740\nIt's recorded for people who are in different time zones\n\n662\n00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:39.620\nso they can watch it.\n\n663\n00:26:39.620 --> 00:26:42.300\nAnd I think those have been effective ways\n\n664\n00:26:42.300 --> 00:26:45.580\nto help get the whole company aligned.\n\n665\n00:26:45.580 --> 00:26:48.540\nAnd then I really believe in, and this is something I started\n\n666\n00:26:48.540 --> 00:26:51.820\nbelieving early in my career, if people feel like they're\n\n667\n00:26:51.820 --> 00:26:55.660\nvalued, listened to, and their work is respected,\n\n668\n00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:58.060\nthey're gonna do a better job because it's the,\n\n669\n00:26:58.060 --> 00:27:00.740\nI don't care what you know until I know that you care.\n\n670\n00:27:00.740 --> 00:27:03.660\nWe really work on that part of engagement.\n\n671\n00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.940\nSo every single person understands what their responsibilities\n\n672\n00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:09.460\nare but knows their work is respected.\n\n673\n00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:13.420\n- And you've built a great track record for doing what you say.\n\n674\n00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:18.340\nYou consistently hit your earnings, great performance.\n\n675\n00:27:18.340 --> 00:27:21.380\nWhat do you think is the best practice that you really drive\n\n676\n00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:25.220\nas a leader that helps get the kind of consistent results\n\n677\n00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:26.260\nthat you've generated?\n\n678\n00:27:26.260 --> 00:27:29.700\n- I think when it's teamwork, I can't tell you how many times,\n\n679\n00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:33.700\nwhether it was when we had a shutdown all over facilities\n\n680\n00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:37.100\nwith COVID that we got the team, a cross-functional team\n\n681\n00:27:37.100 --> 00:27:39.020\nworking, okay, what is it gonna take to get people back\n\n682\n00:27:39.020 --> 00:27:40.780\nto work safely?\n\n683\n00:27:40.780 --> 00:27:43.860\nWhen we got into the semi-conductor shortage,\n\n684\n00:27:43.860 --> 00:27:46.100\nand we've literally never had we worried about it.\n\n685\n00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:48.020\nThere was always an excess of semi-conductors.\n\n686\n00:27:48.020 --> 00:27:50.300\nAll of a sudden, you couldn't get the semi-conductors\n\n687\n00:27:50.300 --> 00:27:51.380\nthat we needed.\n\n688\n00:27:51.380 --> 00:27:54.580\nAnd again, it was a cross-functional team that started\n\n689\n00:27:54.580 --> 00:27:58.100\nmeeting on a daily basis, leadership met on a daily basis\n\n690\n00:27:58.100 --> 00:28:01.940\nto help remove roadblocks, to help make priority decisions.\n\n691\n00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:05.940\nSo across the board, I think it's teamwork is what it's allowed\n\n692\n00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:08.580\nus at, 'cause it can seem like a really difficult problem\n\n693\n00:28:08.580 --> 00:28:11.340\non your own, but when you get everybody together,\n\n694\n00:28:11.340 --> 00:28:12.940\nall of a sudden they're like, well, I can do this\n\n695\n00:28:12.940 --> 00:28:15.740\nand I can do this and okay, we can't make that,\n\n696\n00:28:15.740 --> 00:28:16.900\nbut we can make this.\n\n697\n00:28:16.900 --> 00:28:19.940\nAnd I think it's that cross-functional teamwork\n\n698\n00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:22.820\nof here's the challenge, how do we collectively?\n\n699\n00:28:22.820 --> 00:28:25.740\nAnd I will tell you what the team comes up with,\n\n700\n00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.620\njust amazes me of what they're able to,\n\n701\n00:28:28.620 --> 00:28:31.140\nlike, hey, look what we figured out we can do,\n\n702\n00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:34.100\nagain, to meet our financial commitments,\n\n703\n00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:37.580\nas well as, and more importantly, serve the customer.\n\n704\n00:28:37.580 --> 00:28:39.780\n- You know, one thing I love Mary is when people go public\n\n705\n00:28:39.780 --> 00:28:43.700\nwith big goals, and you've definitely done that.\n\n706\n00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:47.980\nI mean, you've committed to being an all EV electric vehicle\n\n707\n00:28:47.980 --> 00:28:50.580\nby 2035.\n\n708\n00:28:50.580 --> 00:28:53.820\nNow, what have you seen happen inside the company\n\n709\n00:28:53.820 --> 00:28:55.740\nplanning your flag like that?\n\n710\n00:28:55.740 --> 00:28:58.820\nAnd why would you come out and make such a bull statement\n\n711\n00:28:58.820 --> 00:28:59.660\nlike that?\n\n712\n00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:01.540\n- Well, I think a couple things, and it's an interesting\n\n713\n00:29:01.540 --> 00:29:04.260\nthat you ask that now, in this era, I never thought\n\n714\n00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:06.420\nthe propulsion system necessarily in the vehicle\n\n715\n00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:08.740\nwould become political, but first of all,\n\n716\n00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:10.460\nwe'll always be guided by the customer.\n\n717\n00:29:10.460 --> 00:29:14.220\nAnd so as we put our strategy forward,\n\n718\n00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:16.660\nwe are always going to do what is in the best interest\n\n719\n00:29:16.660 --> 00:29:18.820\nand what the customer is guiding us to do.\n\n720\n00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:21.900\nBut when we did that several years ago now,\n\n721\n00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:26.380\nthere was too much debate in the company of if and when.\n\n722\n00:29:26.380 --> 00:29:30.940\nEVs were going to be driving the industry.\n\n723\n00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:35.660\nAnd I recognize in our senior leadership, we recognize\n\n724\n00:29:35.660 --> 00:29:39.460\nwe had to get people to stop debating and start working on\n\n725\n00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:41.580\nwhat are the plans to make it true.\n\n726\n00:29:41.580 --> 00:29:44.980\nAnd so when we put the proclamation that we plan to be\n\n727\n00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:48.380\nall electric by 2035 for our light duty vehicles,\n\n728\n00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:51.100\nit's stopped at the internal debate of if we should,\n\n729\n00:29:51.100 --> 00:29:53.380\nand people got working on what would it take.\n\n730\n00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:55.940\nNow we can always make adjustments, but if we're still\n\n731\n00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:59.380\narguing about when instead of figuring out what,\n\n732\n00:29:59.380 --> 00:30:01.420\nit was just not a good place for the company to be.\n\n733\n00:30:01.420 --> 00:30:03.900\nSo that was one of the reasons that I was convinced\n\n734\n00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:06.580\nit was the right thing to do, is to get the company\n\n735\n00:30:06.580 --> 00:30:09.900\nfrom off of the debate and into the action phase.\n\n736\n00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:12.100\n- A lot of times I would make some fairly big\n\n737\n00:30:12.100 --> 00:30:15.780\npronounces myself, and then we'd have a setback\n\n738\n00:30:15.780 --> 00:30:17.860\nwhen you're chasing that kind of big goal.\n\n739\n00:30:17.860 --> 00:30:20.620\nCan you tell me a story of maybe when you had a setback\n\n740\n00:30:20.620 --> 00:30:22.220\ngoing after something this aggressive,\n\n741\n00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:25.620\nand how you work it through with your team?\n\n742\n00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:28.940\n- Well, I think with EVs a couple of years ago,\n\n743\n00:30:28.940 --> 00:30:32.180\nand really in 23, we were all set,\n\n744\n00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:34.860\nwe had a lot of EVs plan to launch,\n\n745\n00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:37.700\nand we realized the automation we were using\n\n746\n00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:39.860\nto make modules, it wasn't working.\n\n747\n00:30:39.860 --> 00:30:41.540\nWe weren't able to get at rate.\n\n748\n00:30:41.540 --> 00:30:43.660\nAnd this was something that was, I think, doubly hard\n\n749\n00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:45.420\nfor me, 'cause I grew up in manufacturing,\n\n750\n00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:47.100\nso I'm like, what a minute, what do you mean?\n\n751\n00:30:47.100 --> 00:30:48.460\nWe can't build modules.\n\n752\n00:30:48.460 --> 00:30:51.340\nAnd it turned out to be a pretty significant challenge.\n\n753\n00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:53.340\nThere was a whole host of reasons,\n\n754\n00:30:53.340 --> 00:30:56.260\nbut that was a setback where I had to explain\n\n755\n00:30:56.260 --> 00:30:58.900\nto the street why we weren't getting the number of EVs out\n\n756\n00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:00.260\nthat we thought we were.\n\n757\n00:31:00.260 --> 00:31:04.140\nNow, in the background, we were again, meeting on it,\n\n758\n00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:05.980\ncross-functional team working on it,\n\n759\n00:31:05.980 --> 00:31:07.540\nand within about eight months,\n\n760\n00:31:07.540 --> 00:31:08.940\nwe were able to solve the issue.\n\n761\n00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:12.060\nBut that was probably one of the most public pronouncements\n\n762\n00:31:12.060 --> 00:31:14.700\nI'd made, that I had to walk it back,\n\n763\n00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:17.900\nand again, the way we handled it is we told the truth.\n\n764\n00:31:17.900 --> 00:31:19.940\nWe said, look, it's not that our vehicles aren't ready.\n\n765\n00:31:19.940 --> 00:31:21.220\nIt's not that they're not right.\n\n766\n00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:23.020\nIt's not that we don't have the battery cells.\n\n767\n00:31:23.020 --> 00:31:26.620\nWe literally are having automation challenges\n\n768\n00:31:26.620 --> 00:31:29.260\nwith building modules for battery packs.\n\n769\n00:31:29.260 --> 00:31:33.620\nSo we were honest, it cost us, it hurt for almost a year,\n\n770\n00:31:33.620 --> 00:31:36.820\nbut we then, last year was a year of execution,\n\n771\n00:31:36.820 --> 00:31:38.140\nand I couldn't be more proud of the team\n\n772\n00:31:38.140 --> 00:31:40.900\nof how they executed, but it was painful.\n\n773\n00:31:40.900 --> 00:31:43.620\n- Yeah, those times definitely are.\n\n774\n00:31:43.620 --> 00:31:46.100\nBut the honesty always proves\n\n775\n00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:47.780\nto give you the credibility in the end.\n\n776\n00:31:47.780 --> 00:31:49.260\nJust everything in this world\n\n777\n00:31:49.260 --> 00:31:51.060\nwhere everything is so transparent,\n\n778\n00:31:51.060 --> 00:31:54.380\nI used to, I have two grown children now,\n\n779\n00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:55.220\nbut when they were growing up,\n\n780\n00:31:55.220 --> 00:31:57.420\nI always used to say the truth will set you free.\n\n781\n00:31:57.420 --> 00:31:58.820\nIt may not get you out of trouble,\n\n782\n00:31:58.820 --> 00:32:00.700\nbut it will be a lot better than if I find out\n\n783\n00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:01.820\nyou're not telling me the truth.\n\n784\n00:32:01.820 --> 00:32:04.100\nSo I'm a big believer the truth will set you free.\n\n785\n00:32:04.100 --> 00:32:05.700\n- That's good advice, you know.\n\n786\n00:32:05.700 --> 00:32:08.420\nAnd Tesla has obviously been the front runner in the US\n\n787\n00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:12.020\nwith the EVs, and what have you learned from watching them\n\n788\n00:32:12.020 --> 00:32:15.140\nthat's fueling your own innovation for growth?\n\n789\n00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:17.460\n- Well, I think one of the things that, you know,\n\n790\n00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:19.260\nagain, very capable vehicles,\n\n791\n00:32:19.260 --> 00:32:22.140\nit's a very impressive team with what they're able to do.\n\n792\n00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:23.420\nBut I think, you know, early on,\n\n793\n00:32:23.420 --> 00:32:24.780\nwhen they came out with a vehicle\n\n794\n00:32:24.780 --> 00:32:27.980\nthat had over 300 miles of range, that was huge\n\n795\n00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:30.500\nbecause others who had EVs out there,\n\n796\n00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:33.140\n300 miles became consumer of it.\n\n797\n00:32:33.140 --> 00:32:36.620\nIt's over 300, they felt confident for most of the time\n\n798\n00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:38.740\nthat they could, they'd get to where they needed to be\n\n799\n00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:41.380\nand they didn't have charging anxiety.\n\n800\n00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:44.260\nAnd so they really set the standard there.\n\n801\n00:32:44.260 --> 00:32:46.540\nWhat they've done with their charging network\n\n802\n00:32:46.540 --> 00:32:47.700\nwas very impressive as well.\n\n803\n00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:50.220\nI was happy that we were able to work with Tesla\n\n804\n00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:53.140\nand open up the charging network to GM vehicles as well.\n\n805\n00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:56.060\nThey've done a very capable vehicle\n\n806\n00:32:56.060 --> 00:32:59.660\nthat is competition that we have to understand\n\n807\n00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:02.140\nand work hard to surpass.\n\n808\n00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:04.460\n- Despite the fact you've had consistent results\n\n809\n00:33:04.460 --> 00:33:07.380\nand such an impressive track record,\n\n810\n00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:10.580\nit seems like everybody predicts the demise\n\n811\n00:33:10.580 --> 00:33:13.100\nof the US auto makers, you know.\n\n812\n00:33:13.100 --> 00:33:15.380\nYou've been the best among all of them,\n\n813\n00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:17.220\nbut what do you say to everybody that says,\n\n814\n00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:20.340\nhey, GM's, they're on the way out.\n\n815\n00:33:20.340 --> 00:33:21.420\nIt's just not gonna happen.\n\n816\n00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:22.980\nThey're not changing fast enough.\n\n817\n00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:25.820\nI mean, obviously you're kind of have a lot going on these days.\n\n818\n00:33:25.820 --> 00:33:27.820\n- Well, one is we show them our product portfolio,\n\n819\n00:33:27.820 --> 00:33:29.700\nwhether it's our internal combustion engine\n\n820\n00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:33.420\nor our EV vehicles and they keep winning awards\n\n821\n00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:35.380\nand we're growing share both in our,\n\n822\n00:33:35.380 --> 00:33:38.580\nwhat we call ICE internal combustion and our EVs.\n\n823\n00:33:38.580 --> 00:33:40.700\nAnd so we're gonna continue to do that.\n\n824\n00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:42.500\nWe're gonna continue to put points on the board\n\n825\n00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:43.940\nfrom an earnings perspective.\n\n826\n00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:48.380\n- And but demonstrate that, you know, we are different.\n\n827\n00:33:48.380 --> 00:33:51.500\nI mean, one of the South side analysts, you know,\n\n828\n00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:55.900\nit said, you know, we're the best house in a bad neighborhood.\n\n829\n00:33:55.900 --> 00:33:57.100\nAnd so I've used that with the team.\n\n830\n00:33:57.100 --> 00:33:59.180\nI said, okay, we gotta move neighborhoods\n\n831\n00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:00.460\n'cause we got a good house.\n\n832\n00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:03.100\nSo now let's focus on getting people to understand\n\n833\n00:34:03.100 --> 00:34:04.340\nwe're in a different neighborhood.\n\n834\n00:34:04.340 --> 00:34:07.260\nProduct is what will help us get there.\n\n835\n00:34:07.260 --> 00:34:09.500\nI mean, at the end of the day, this is, as I said before,\n\n836\n00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:12.100\nthis is such an important purchase for most people.\n\n837\n00:34:12.100 --> 00:34:14.140\nWe've gotta make sure we have the best product\n\n838\n00:34:14.140 --> 00:34:17.660\nfrom a design, beautifully designed\n\n839\n00:34:17.660 --> 00:34:22.300\nfrom range of performance, from functionality, et cetera.\n\n840\n00:34:22.300 --> 00:34:25.220\nAnd if we continue to execute and have great products,\n\n841\n00:34:25.220 --> 00:34:27.620\nwe'll win and people will recognize\n\n842\n00:34:27.620 --> 00:34:30.100\nthat we are gonna be around and we're gonna lead.\n\n843\n00:34:30.100 --> 00:34:32.460\n- And you have a great manufacturing background, you said.\n\n844\n00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:33.660\nAnd then when you became CEO,\n\n845\n00:34:33.660 --> 00:34:35.700\nyou were ahead of product development.\n\n846\n00:34:35.700 --> 00:34:39.060\nHow did you pick up your marketing skills\n\n847\n00:34:39.060 --> 00:34:41.740\nand your customer focus, which you've gotta have.\n\n848\n00:34:41.740 --> 00:34:44.060\nI mean, if you're not customer centric, you're gonna die.\n\n849\n00:34:44.060 --> 00:34:46.780\nI mean, was this in the wood to begin with\n\n850\n00:34:46.780 --> 00:34:48.340\nor is this something you had to develop?\n\n851\n00:34:48.340 --> 00:34:51.180\n- Well, I think it really was helpful.\n\n852\n00:34:51.180 --> 00:34:53.900\nWhen I was in manufacturing, it was all about quality\n\n853\n00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:57.100\nbecause I wanted to make sure the vehicles we built\n\n854\n00:34:57.100 --> 00:34:58.060\nwere the highest of quality.\n\n855\n00:34:58.060 --> 00:35:00.220\nSo customers didn't have issues.\n\n856\n00:35:00.220 --> 00:35:02.300\nIn product development, now we have\n\n857\n00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:04.460\nall the chief engineers who are deciding,\n\n858\n00:35:04.460 --> 00:35:05.700\nwhat is this product gonna be?\n\n859\n00:35:05.700 --> 00:35:07.420\nWe start with a blank piece of paper\n\n860\n00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:08.700\nand have to make all the decisions.\n\n861\n00:35:08.700 --> 00:35:09.700\nWhat's the design?\n\n862\n00:35:09.700 --> 00:35:10.980\nWhat's the functionality?\n\n863\n00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:12.740\nWhat's the space in the backseat?\n\n864\n00:35:12.740 --> 00:35:14.060\nThe legroom.\n\n865\n00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:16.580\nEvery dimension of a vehicle, you start with\n\n866\n00:35:16.580 --> 00:35:17.420\nand you have to define.\n\n867\n00:35:17.420 --> 00:35:19.580\nAnd that's where we really learned, I learned,\n\n868\n00:35:19.580 --> 00:35:22.100\njust how much work we had to do to really understand\n\n869\n00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:25.500\nthe customer for a Corvette versus a heavy duty truck\n\n870\n00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:27.140\nversus an Equinox.\n\n871\n00:35:27.140 --> 00:35:28.660\nAnd so that was very helpful.\n\n872\n00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:30.940\nAnd I would say in the marketing side, I'm still a student,\n\n873\n00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:33.620\nbut I have to say we have great marketing team\n\n874\n00:35:33.620 --> 00:35:37.020\nled by Norm DeGrave, who has really brought a lot\n\n875\n00:35:37.020 --> 00:35:39.940\nto our team and taught me a lot about marketing.\n\n876\n00:35:39.940 --> 00:35:43.620\nSo I think as a CEO, you can never have sad in every chair.\n\n877\n00:35:43.620 --> 00:35:46.260\nSo you've got to be curious and be a learner\n\n878\n00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:47.700\neven when you're the CEO.\n\n879\n00:35:47.700 --> 00:35:50.460\n- And one thing that every company as to Russell with\n\n880\n00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:53.660\nis just the risk of becoming too insular.\n\n881\n00:35:53.660 --> 00:35:58.660\nHow do you keep your company, keep GM externally focused?\n\n882\n00:35:58.660 --> 00:36:00.740\nNot only on the customer, but everything else\n\n883\n00:36:00.740 --> 00:36:02.380\nthat's going on around the world.\n\n884\n00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:04.980\n- Well, I think it gets to bringing in talent\n\n885\n00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:06.220\nfrom outside the industry.\n\n886\n00:36:06.220 --> 00:36:09.100\nSo they bring different industry's perspective as one.\n\n887\n00:36:09.100 --> 00:36:11.980\nI think regularly looking at our competitors' products\n\n888\n00:36:11.980 --> 00:36:14.220\nto understand where they're headed.\n\n889\n00:36:14.220 --> 00:36:16.940\nObviously, we monitor everything.\n\n890\n00:36:16.940 --> 00:36:18.700\nWe have a team on competitive intelligence,\n\n891\n00:36:18.700 --> 00:36:20.980\nunderstanding what's happening around the world.\n\n892\n00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:23.980\nAnd then focused on where are the trends?\n\n893\n00:36:23.980 --> 00:36:28.780\nI realized in 2015 that our industry was changing.\n\n894\n00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:31.900\nAnd whether it was the way the vehicle was propelled,\n\n895\n00:36:31.900 --> 00:36:33.620\nthe way software was changing it,\n\n896\n00:36:33.620 --> 00:36:35.500\nthe way autonomy was changing it.\n\n897\n00:36:35.500 --> 00:36:39.540\nAnd so we regularly, in those early years,\n\n898\n00:36:39.540 --> 00:36:42.300\nspent time in Silicon Valley,\n\n899\n00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:44.540\nmeeting with the different tech companies\n\n900\n00:36:44.540 --> 00:36:47.260\nand Stanford just to understand.\n\n901\n00:36:47.260 --> 00:36:49.540\nSo I think you have to force yourself\n\n902\n00:36:49.540 --> 00:36:51.980\nbecause I think being insular was one of the things\n\n903\n00:36:51.980 --> 00:36:53.020\nthat hurt general motors.\n\n904\n00:36:53.020 --> 00:36:55.900\nThey went from the success of the '50s and '60s.\n\n905\n00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:57.900\nAnd I think they stopped looking outside,\n\n906\n00:36:57.900 --> 00:37:00.660\nwhich I think any company that stops really looking\n\n907\n00:37:00.660 --> 00:37:03.100\nat what's happening does it at their own risk.\n\n908\n00:37:03.100 --> 00:37:06.100\nAnd then especially with how quickly technology is moving\n\n909\n00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:08.180\nand changing everything we do,\n\n910\n00:37:08.180 --> 00:37:11.820\nyou have to stay just actively looking to learn\n\n911\n00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:15.100\nand understand how you can make your own business better.\n\n912\n00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:17.020\n- We'll be back with the rest of my conversation\n\n913\n00:37:17.020 --> 00:37:18.540\nwith Mary Bear in just a moment.\n\n914\n00:37:18.540 --> 00:37:20.940\nWell, Master's Week is here.\n\n915\n00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:24.220\nAnd it's the perfect excuse to check out my conversation\n\n916\n00:37:24.220 --> 00:37:27.620\nwith the Golden Bear himself, Jack Nicholas.\n\n917\n00:37:27.620 --> 00:37:30.780\nWhen I asked Jack what made him so consistently successful\n\n918\n00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:32.940\nin his golf game over the years,\n\n919\n00:37:32.940 --> 00:37:36.620\nhe didn't talk about the talent or the skill that he had.\n\n920\n00:37:36.620 --> 00:37:40.860\nHe talked about the power of preparation.\n\n921\n00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:43.380\n- First of all, I think being prepared\n\n922\n00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:47.460\nis probably the most important thing in any walk of life.\n\n923\n00:37:47.460 --> 00:37:49.220\nYou can't walk into a business meeting.\n\n924\n00:37:49.220 --> 00:37:50.700\nYou can't walk into anything else,\n\n925\n00:37:50.700 --> 00:37:52.860\na sales or anything if you're not prepared.\n\n926\n00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:56.780\nAnd I prided myself on being prepared to play\n\n927\n00:37:56.780 --> 00:37:59.060\nwhen I was ready to play, it wasn't a play.\n\n928\n00:37:59.060 --> 00:38:02.100\nAnd so as I went into each of those majors,\n\n929\n00:38:02.100 --> 00:38:04.940\nI really geared myself early in the year for the Masters.\n\n930\n00:38:04.940 --> 00:38:07.580\nAnd I practiced on courses that I thought were\n\n931\n00:38:07.580 --> 00:38:09.420\ncourses that would help me for a guest then.\n\n932\n00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:12.380\nAnd so when I got to a guest, I was ready to play a guest.\n\n933\n00:38:12.380 --> 00:38:15.340\nAnd so being prepared, being ready,\n\n934\n00:38:15.340 --> 00:38:18.340\nand being focused on those events\n\n935\n00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:21.500\nwere something that I really prided myself on.\n\n936\n00:38:21.500 --> 00:38:23.540\nAnd if you're not prepared,\n\n937\n00:38:23.540 --> 00:38:25.020\nyou're not gonna perform.\n\n938\n00:38:25.020 --> 00:38:28.540\n- Go back and listen to my entire conversation\n\n939\n00:38:28.540 --> 00:38:33.180\nwith Jack episode 21 here on How Leaders Lead.\n\n940\n00:38:33.180 --> 00:38:35.700\nOne of the things I enjoy most about having conversations\n\n941\n00:38:35.700 --> 00:38:38.060\nlike this is I always learn when I do them.\n\n942\n00:38:38.060 --> 00:38:39.580\nAnd one of the things that I've learned\n\n943\n00:38:39.580 --> 00:38:42.340\nis I've learned about you is this concept called\n\n944\n00:38:42.340 --> 00:38:44.260\nambidextrous leadership.\n\n945\n00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:45.260\nSay more.\n\n946\n00:38:45.260 --> 00:38:47.500\n- Ambidextrous leadership is,\n\n947\n00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:49.540\nhow do I manage for today and manage\n\n948\n00:38:49.540 --> 00:38:52.020\nand look over the horizon for tomorrow?\n\n949\n00:38:52.020 --> 00:38:54.140\nAnd you have to be an ambidextrous leader\n\n950\n00:38:54.140 --> 00:38:58.020\nto manage today while setting the strategy for tomorrow.\n\n951\n00:38:58.020 --> 00:38:59.740\nOtherwise you might perfect today,\n\n952\n00:38:59.740 --> 00:39:02.020\nbut it's irrelevant for where the industry\n\n953\n00:39:02.020 --> 00:39:03.340\nand the world is going.\n\n954\n00:39:03.340 --> 00:39:06.620\nSo that's been a really helpful concept to have\n\n955\n00:39:06.620 --> 00:39:08.980\nand our leaders have embraced it.\n\n956\n00:39:08.980 --> 00:39:11.220\n- How do you manage your own time with that in mind?\n\n957\n00:39:11.220 --> 00:39:13.980\nWhat does an ambidextrous calendar look like for you?\n\n958\n00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:16.340\n- Well, I try to spend more of my time on strategy,\n\n959\n00:39:16.340 --> 00:39:18.380\nalthough if we're having issues, I'll dig deep.\n\n960\n00:39:18.380 --> 00:39:20.100\nI think it's the engineer in me.\n\n961\n00:39:20.100 --> 00:39:22.420\nI really like to look and I don't manage it\n\n962\n00:39:22.420 --> 00:39:23.780\non a day or a week basis,\n\n963\n00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:26.500\nbut I do go back every now and then and look at\n\n964\n00:39:26.500 --> 00:39:28.740\nhow much time have I spent on what's for the future\n\n965\n00:39:28.740 --> 00:39:31.300\nof the company versus the problems of today?\n\n966\n00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:32.820\nWe do that with our board as well,\n\n967\n00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:35.820\nmaking sure that most of the board is focused\n\n968\n00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:39.860\non what's in the future and how do we get all the insights,\n\n969\n00:39:39.860 --> 00:39:42.060\nall the expertise on our board has\n\n970\n00:39:42.060 --> 00:39:44.820\nto make sure we're making the right strategic decision.\n\n971\n00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:48.460\nSo I think it's my job to really force the organization\n\n972\n00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:50.660\nto do that and to have the right leaders\n\n973\n00:39:50.660 --> 00:39:53.100\none in two and three levels below\n\n974\n00:39:53.100 --> 00:39:54.700\nthat can manage the day to day\n\n975\n00:39:54.700 --> 00:39:57.260\nand in their area be looking at what do they need\n\n976\n00:39:57.260 --> 00:39:59.100\nto be aware of to make their area better?\n\n977\n00:39:59.100 --> 00:40:01.620\nHow is technology changing it, et cetera?\n\n978\n00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:03.180\n- You know, as a leader, Mary,\n\n979\n00:40:03.180 --> 00:40:06.100\nhow are you going about just sharpening your own acts\n\n980\n00:40:06.100 --> 00:40:07.980\nand getting better and better as a leader?\n\n981\n00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:09.460\nWhat are you working on these days?\n\n982\n00:40:09.460 --> 00:40:11.340\n- Well, I would say I'm working on making sure\n\n983\n00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:16.340\nI understand AI and just using the tools in my daily life,\n\n984\n00:40:16.340 --> 00:40:18.460\nspending time with our team.\n\n985\n00:40:18.460 --> 00:40:20.180\nWe just did a session at the end of last week\n\n986\n00:40:20.180 --> 00:40:21.780\nwith one of our tech leaders,\n\n987\n00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:24.180\nour whole leadership team, we spend over an hour\n\n988\n00:40:24.180 --> 00:40:27.660\nunderstanding what the hype is versus what's real,\n\n989\n00:40:27.660 --> 00:40:30.340\nbut even we're learning how you can create an app\n\n990\n00:40:30.340 --> 00:40:32.260\nwith not ever touching the keyboard.\n\n991\n00:40:32.260 --> 00:40:35.820\nSo I think it's, for me, I think because I'm an engineer,\n\n992\n00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:37.780\nI have to do it to understand it.\n\n993\n00:40:37.780 --> 00:40:39.420\nAnd then I would also say,\n\n994\n00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:42.260\njust reading of everything that's happening around the world\n\n995\n00:40:42.260 --> 00:40:44.860\nis so important to stay up on trends\n\n996\n00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:46.420\non business around the globe.\n\n997\n00:40:46.420 --> 00:40:47.900\n- You know, Mary, this has been so much fun\n\n998\n00:40:47.900 --> 00:40:50.340\nand now I wanna have my traditional round\n\n999\n00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:52.020\nof lightning round questions here.\n\n1000\n00:40:52.020 --> 00:40:53.380\nAre you ready for this?\n\n1001\n00:40:53.380 --> 00:40:54.220\n- I'm ready.\n\n1002\n00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:55.060\n- Okay.\n\n1003\n00:40:55.060 --> 00:40:56.820\nThe three words that best describe you.\n\n1004\n00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:59.140\n- Fair, optimistic and driven.\n\n1005\n00:40:59.140 --> 00:41:00.780\n- If you could be one person for a day\n\n1006\n00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:02.580\nbeside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1007\n00:41:02.580 --> 00:41:04.020\n- Maybe Taylor Swift.\n\n1008\n00:41:04.020 --> 00:41:05.540\nMy daughter's a big Taylor Swift fan\n\n1009\n00:41:05.540 --> 00:41:07.820\nand she's made me a, I'm a Swiftie.\n\n1010\n00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:09.580\n- Me, our family is too.\n\n1011\n00:41:09.580 --> 00:41:10.820\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1012\n00:41:10.820 --> 00:41:11.980\n- When people don't tell the truth.\n\n1013\n00:41:11.980 --> 00:41:13.340\n- Who would play you in a movie?\n\n1014\n00:41:13.340 --> 00:41:15.820\n- One of my favorite actresses is Jennifer Aniston.\n\n1015\n00:41:15.820 --> 00:41:19.300\nSo she's younger than me, so probably not, but why not?\n\n1016\n00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:20.220\n(laughs)\n\n1017\n00:41:20.220 --> 00:41:21.060\n- Okay.\n\n1018\n00:41:21.060 --> 00:41:21.900\nOh, why not?\n\n1019\n00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:24.300\nHave you ever named one of your vehicles?\n\n1020\n00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:26.460\n- Yes, our kids actually did.\n\n1021\n00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:30.660\nWhen they were growing up, we had Tim Batahou.\n\n1022\n00:41:30.660 --> 00:41:31.580\n- Fantastic.\n\n1023\n00:41:31.580 --> 00:41:33.300\nName a car you're building at GM\n\n1024\n00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:35.060\nthat everyone should test drive.\n\n1025\n00:41:35.060 --> 00:41:36.660\n- Oh, there's so many, David.\n\n1026\n00:41:36.660 --> 00:41:37.940\nThat's so unfair.\n\n1027\n00:41:37.940 --> 00:41:39.980\nThey should get in, let me give you a couple.\n\n1028\n00:41:39.980 --> 00:41:43.260\nAn Equinox EV, Chevrolet Track, the Lyric.\n\n1029\n00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:44.100\nThose are just a few.\n\n1030\n00:41:44.100 --> 00:41:45.300\nLike I said, I could go on and on\n\n1031\n00:41:45.300 --> 00:41:47.380\nbecause having run product development,\n\n1032\n00:41:47.380 --> 00:41:50.420\nevery product has a special place in my heart.\n\n1033\n00:41:50.420 --> 00:41:51.620\n- I knew it was unfair question,\n\n1034\n00:41:51.620 --> 00:41:52.740\nbut I asked it anyway.\n\n1035\n00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:56.220\nWhat's something that only the CEO of GM knows about GM?\n\n1036\n00:41:56.220 --> 00:41:58.300\n- I think unfortunately it's a best kept secret\n\n1037\n00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:00.020\nof how talented our people are.\n\n1038\n00:42:00.020 --> 00:42:01.860\nI think people look and they think we're old\n\n1039\n00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:04.900\nwhen I tell them over 40% of our technical talent\n\n1040\n00:42:04.900 --> 00:42:07.900\nhas been with the company less than five, four or five years.\n\n1041\n00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:09.580\nThey kind of look at me with this shock.\n\n1042\n00:42:09.580 --> 00:42:12.380\nSo the capability of the team.\n\n1043\n00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:13.220\n- Fantastic.\n\n1044\n00:42:13.220 --> 00:42:15.140\nWhat makes Detroit so special?\n\n1045\n00:42:15.140 --> 00:42:17.580\n- You know, it's a grit that I talked about.\n\n1046\n00:42:17.580 --> 00:42:19.020\nIt's a sports town.\n\n1047\n00:42:19.020 --> 00:42:22.060\nIt's a, I was just at a Red Wings game yesterday.\n\n1048\n00:42:22.060 --> 00:42:25.300\nIt's just a town where people work hard\n\n1049\n00:42:25.300 --> 00:42:28.420\nand I don't know, maybe it's the winters we go through,\n\n1050\n00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:31.540\nbut there's this grit in Detroit\n\n1051\n00:42:31.540 --> 00:42:33.500\nthat we're gonna get through things\n\n1052\n00:42:33.500 --> 00:42:35.140\nand we're going to work hard.\n\n1053\n00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:39.740\nAnd it's also a city in the Midwest.\n\n1054\n00:42:39.740 --> 00:42:42.300\nSo we're nice, but we work hard and we're determined.\n\n1055\n00:42:42.300 --> 00:42:44.340\n- What's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n1056\n00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:45.500\n- I love to shop.\n\n1057\n00:42:45.500 --> 00:42:48.380\n- Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?\n\n1058\n00:42:48.380 --> 00:42:50.180\n- Well, my dog is part of my family.\n\n1059\n00:42:50.180 --> 00:42:51.420\nSo my family is everything.\n\n1060\n00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:53.100\nI have two grown children.\n\n1061\n00:42:53.100 --> 00:42:55.300\nI have a husband that will celebrate our 40th wedding\n\n1062\n00:42:55.300 --> 00:42:59.220\nanniversary this year and my dog hunter is pretty special.\n\n1063\n00:42:59.220 --> 00:43:01.860\nBut, you know, I can't think of,\n\n1064\n00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:04.980\nonce you have your family, I guess my health.\n\n1065\n00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:06.420\nYou have your family and you have your health.\n\n1066\n00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:08.140\nYou kind of have, you have a lot.\n\n1067\n00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:10.620\n- If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1068\n00:43:10.620 --> 00:43:12.100\n- Country music probably.\n\n1069\n00:43:12.100 --> 00:43:12.860\n- You and me both.\n\n1070\n00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:15.100\nWhat's something about you few people would know?\n\n1071\n00:43:15.100 --> 00:43:17.020\n- I'm not the most coordinated person.\n\n1072\n00:43:17.020 --> 00:43:18.780\n- What's one of your daily rituals,\n\n1073\n00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:20.340\nsomething that you never miss?\n\n1074\n00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.700\n- I need iced tea in the morning.\n\n1075\n00:43:21.700 --> 00:43:23.780\nIt used to be Diet Coke a long time ago.\n\n1076\n00:43:23.780 --> 00:43:26.460\nI switched to iced tea, but I need that iced tea\n\n1077\n00:43:26.460 --> 00:43:27.700\nin the morning.\n\n1078\n00:43:27.700 --> 00:43:29.460\n- All right, Mary, we're out of that lightning round.\n\n1079\n00:43:29.460 --> 00:43:30.300\nGreat job.\n\n1080\n00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:32.220\nJust a few more questions if we'll wrap this up.\n\n1081\n00:43:32.220 --> 00:43:37.220\nYou know, GM has always been a very innovative company\n\n1082\n00:43:37.220 --> 00:43:38.580\nand thinker.\n\n1083\n00:43:38.580 --> 00:43:41.860\nYou know, I guess in, I read where in your articles\n\n1084\n00:43:41.860 --> 00:43:44.060\nof incorporation, 115 years ago,\n\n1085\n00:43:44.060 --> 00:43:49.060\nyou talked about electric vehicles and even flying vehicles.\n\n1086\n00:43:49.060 --> 00:43:52.380\nSo it really is in your DNA.\n\n1087\n00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:54.900\nHow are you thinking about the environment\n\n1088\n00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:59.580\nthat's gonna empower people to have that kind of innovation?\n\n1089\n00:43:59.580 --> 00:44:01.220\nYou know, let's say 100 years from now,\n\n1090\n00:44:01.220 --> 00:44:04.060\nwhen they look back at 2025, they say,\n\n1091\n00:44:04.060 --> 00:44:05.300\n\"Oh, look what they did that.\"\n\n1092\n00:44:05.300 --> 00:44:07.740\n- Well, I think it's really engaging.\n\n1093\n00:44:07.740 --> 00:44:09.660\nI think a lot of people think somebody else\n\n1094\n00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:11.620\nis gonna innovate, I'm just gonna do my job.\n\n1095\n00:44:11.620 --> 00:44:13.860\nAnd it's really getting every person to understand\n\n1096\n00:44:13.860 --> 00:44:15.140\nthat they can innovate.\n\n1097\n00:44:15.140 --> 00:44:17.540\nOne of my coolest stories about General Motors\n\n1098\n00:44:17.540 --> 00:44:19.620\nis one of the innovations with Cadillac,\n\n1099\n00:44:19.620 --> 00:44:23.860\nway back when is they invented the electric starter?\n\n1100\n00:44:23.860 --> 00:44:25.140\nAnd why did they do it?\n\n1101\n00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:27.020\nBecause before an electric starter,\n\n1102\n00:44:27.020 --> 00:44:29.060\nthe way you started a vehicle is you cranked it.\n\n1103\n00:44:29.060 --> 00:44:30.500\nIt was a crank turn.\n\n1104\n00:44:30.500 --> 00:44:32.900\nI'm told that's where the term cranky came from\n\n1105\n00:44:32.900 --> 00:44:34.300\nbecause it was hard.\n\n1106\n00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:36.740\nPeople would break their arms doing it.\n\n1107\n00:44:36.740 --> 00:44:40.100\nWomen and people of small stature had a hard time doing it.\n\n1108\n00:44:40.100 --> 00:44:42.500\nAnd so General Motors was so customer focused,\n\n1109\n00:44:42.500 --> 00:44:44.460\nthey said, \"Okay, how do we solve this?\"\n\n1110\n00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:46.060\nThe electric starter.\n\n1111\n00:44:46.060 --> 00:44:49.060\nI tell that story just because think about how\n\n1112\n00:44:49.060 --> 00:44:52.700\nit's such a customer facing, but such an innovative\n\n1113\n00:44:52.700 --> 00:44:55.260\nof we're gonna solve the things that the customer\n\n1114\n00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:58.700\nfinds the least or the most challenging with our vehicle\n\n1115\n00:44:58.700 --> 00:45:00.420\nor the thing they dislike the most.\n\n1116\n00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:01.860\nAnd we're gonna solve it.\n\n1117\n00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:05.460\nEveryone, every engineer, every single person in the company\n\n1118\n00:45:05.460 --> 00:45:07.020\ncan be thinking along those lines.\n\n1119\n00:45:07.020 --> 00:45:09.420\nAnd so we try to drive innovation everywhere\n\n1120\n00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:10.340\ninto the company.\n\n1121\n00:45:11.220 --> 00:45:13.860\n- You know, as a CEO, you're also a mom\n\n1122\n00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.460\nand you've mentioned your family really being\n\n1123\n00:45:15.460 --> 00:45:17.380\nyour most prized possession.\n\n1124\n00:45:17.380 --> 00:45:21.340\nHow have you integrated the two over the years?\n\n1125\n00:45:21.340 --> 00:45:24.420\n- Well, I'm really proud of the fact that, you know,\n\n1126\n00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:27.180\nthere were times where when the kids were little,\n\n1127\n00:45:27.180 --> 00:45:29.260\nyou know, I'd take the breaks so we could have\n\n1128\n00:45:29.260 --> 00:45:31.060\nfamily dinner together and they'd go to bed\n\n1129\n00:45:31.060 --> 00:45:32.660\nand I'd start working again.\n\n1130\n00:45:32.660 --> 00:45:34.580\nSometimes did crazy things on my schedule\n\n1131\n00:45:34.580 --> 00:45:37.340\nto make that cross country meet or that hockey game\n\n1132\n00:45:37.340 --> 00:45:39.500\nor that soccer match because,\n\n1133\n00:45:39.500 --> 00:45:40.860\nand my kids knew I was there.\n\n1134\n00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:43.820\nAnd so, you know, what I encourage people to do\n\n1135\n00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:46.980\nis that period of time, you think it's gonna go on forever,\n\n1136\n00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:47.820\nbut it doesn't.\n\n1137\n00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:50.020\nAnd when your kids graduate from high school,\n\n1138\n00:45:50.020 --> 00:45:52.260\nunless they're playing, you know, college sports,\n\n1139\n00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:53.460\nthat phase is over.\n\n1140\n00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:56.460\nSo there's moments that you shouldn't miss\n\n1141\n00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:59.460\nand only you can prioritize for yourself\n\n1142\n00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:01.660\n'cause only you know what's important.\n\n1143\n00:46:01.660 --> 00:46:03.260\nI chose what was important to me,\n\n1144\n00:46:03.260 --> 00:46:06.220\nbut that was an excuse to not get my work done\n\n1145\n00:46:06.220 --> 00:46:07.740\nand to excel.\n\n1146\n00:46:07.740 --> 00:46:10.820\nBut sometimes it took a lot of creativity.\n\n1147\n00:46:10.820 --> 00:46:13.540\nAnd I think my kids know that and they're proud of me for it\n\n1148\n00:46:13.540 --> 00:46:16.140\nand they're proud of what I've accomplished.\n\n1149\n00:46:16.140 --> 00:46:20.060\n- And you're celebrating your 40th wedding anniversary.\n\n1150\n00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:23.220\nWhat do you think makes a partnership work like that?\n\n1151\n00:46:23.220 --> 00:46:26.380\nWhat has gotta happen to be able to have that kind\n\n1152\n00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:28.180\nof an enduring relationship?\n\n1153\n00:46:28.180 --> 00:46:30.980\n- Well, I think we're best friends.\n\n1154\n00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:32.940\nI mean, I wanna be around my husband\n\n1155\n00:46:32.940 --> 00:46:35.100\nand I think he wants to be around me,\n\n1156\n00:46:35.100 --> 00:46:37.060\nbut we enjoy spending time together.\n\n1157\n00:46:37.060 --> 00:46:40.780\nWe debate, but I would also say he's my rock\n\n1158\n00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:42.660\nand he's also the person every now and then holds up\n\n1159\n00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:44.940\nthe mirror to me and says, \"Mary, come on.\"\n\n1160\n00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:47.860\nSo I mean, after 40 years, we grew up together,\n\n1161\n00:46:47.860 --> 00:46:49.740\nwe got married right out of college,\n\n1162\n00:46:49.740 --> 00:46:52.820\nbut I think there's so many dimensions of our relationship\n\n1163\n00:46:52.820 --> 00:46:55.300\nfor which I'm grateful because there's no bigger supporter\n\n1164\n00:46:55.300 --> 00:46:56.740\nin my life than my husband.\n\n1165\n00:46:56.740 --> 00:46:58.940\n- What do you see now as you look forward\n\n1166\n00:46:58.940 --> 00:47:00.540\nas your unfinished business?\n\n1167\n00:47:00.540 --> 00:47:03.060\n- Well, I think, you know, we're still in the middle\n\n1168\n00:47:03.060 --> 00:47:06.220\nof this transformation of not only propulsion system,\n\n1169\n00:47:06.220 --> 00:47:08.340\nbut software and autonomy.\n\n1170\n00:47:08.340 --> 00:47:11.780\nAnd, you know, the work will always be innovating\n\n1171\n00:47:11.780 --> 00:47:14.660\nand continuing, so I can't say when the work is done,\n\n1172\n00:47:14.660 --> 00:47:18.220\nbut I wanna make sure we're on this kind of irreversible path\n\n1173\n00:47:18.220 --> 00:47:20.740\nfor existing for the next hundred years,\n\n1174\n00:47:20.740 --> 00:47:23.780\nand then also making sure I'm developing the next gen,\n\n1175\n00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:26.500\nso they're gonna do even more amazing things.\n\n1176\n00:47:26.500 --> 00:47:27.380\nThat's my hope.\n\n1177\n00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:28.980\n- And last question for you.\n\n1178\n00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:31.580\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1179\n00:47:31.580 --> 00:47:32.900\nwho wants to be a better leader?\n\n1180\n00:47:32.900 --> 00:47:34.900\n- Get to know your people, care about them,\n\n1181\n00:47:34.900 --> 00:47:35.940\nand give them feedback.\n\n1182\n00:47:35.940 --> 00:47:36.780\nFeedback is a gift.\n\n1183\n00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:38.500\nA lot of times what I've seen, you know,\n\n1184\n00:47:38.500 --> 00:47:40.420\nyou get somebody who thinks they're doing a great job.\n\n1185\n00:47:40.420 --> 00:47:41.860\nThey haven't been given feedback\n\n1186\n00:47:41.860 --> 00:47:43.660\nto know how they could have been better.\n\n1187\n00:47:43.660 --> 00:47:44.980\nIf you don't give someone feedback,\n\n1188\n00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:48.260\nhow do they know what, you know, what you think they're missing?\n\n1189\n00:47:48.260 --> 00:47:50.980\nSo, care about your people, give them feedback\n\n1190\n00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:53.220\nso they can be there very best.\n\n1191\n00:47:53.220 --> 00:47:55.700\n- Well, Mary, I can only imagine what's been going on\n\n1192\n00:47:55.700 --> 00:47:58.260\nin your day, and the fact that you took an hour out with me,\n\n1193\n00:47:58.260 --> 00:48:00.860\nI can't thank you enough, I appreciate it.\n\n1194\n00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:04.220\nYou know, you are the real deal, you're a real leader.\n\n1195\n00:48:04.220 --> 00:48:07.060\nYou know, you have every characteristic that it takes\n\n1196\n00:48:07.060 --> 00:48:09.380\nto get people to be inspired by you\n\n1197\n00:48:09.380 --> 00:48:11.340\nand the confidence that you bring to the party.\n\n1198\n00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:14.580\nSo, thank you so much for taking time to be with me.\n\n1199\n00:48:14.580 --> 00:48:16.700\n- Well, I knew I was gonna enjoy this conversation\n\n1200\n00:48:16.700 --> 00:48:18.180\nand the hour flew by.\n\n1201\n00:48:18.180 --> 00:48:20.180\nSo, David, thank you so very, very much\n\n1202\n00:48:20.180 --> 00:48:21.820\nfor what you're doing and giving back\n\n1203\n00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:24.700\nfor everybody who can listen to your podcast,\n\n1204\n00:48:24.700 --> 00:48:26.380\nwhich I think is phenomenal.\n\n1205\n00:48:26.380 --> 00:48:27.220\nThank you.\n\n1206\n00:48:32.540 --> 00:48:35.500\n- One thing that really stands out to me about Mary\n\n1207\n00:48:35.500 --> 00:48:39.500\nis how she leads with such curiosity and candor.\n\n1208\n00:48:39.500 --> 00:48:41.220\nShe's not afraid of the hard truth.\n\n1209\n00:48:41.220 --> 00:48:44.700\nHeck, she goes looking for them, she's hunting them down.\n\n1210\n00:48:44.700 --> 00:48:46.660\nWhen you invite truth into the room\n\n1211\n00:48:46.660 --> 00:48:49.220\nand when you reward your people for bringing it,\n\n1212\n00:48:49.220 --> 00:48:51.740\nyou create more alignment, you build more trust\n\n1213\n00:48:51.740 --> 00:48:55.900\nand ultimately you always get better outcomes.\n\n1214\n00:48:55.900 --> 00:48:58.180\nGreat leaders seek the whole truth,\n\n1215\n00:48:58.180 --> 00:49:01.340\neven when it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.\n\n1216\n00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:03.860\nThat's how you avoid the bad decisions\n\n1217\n00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:07.820\nthat happen when wishful thinking or turf wars take over.\n\n1218\n00:49:07.820 --> 00:49:11.060\nSo with that in mind, here's something to try this week.\n\n1219\n00:49:11.060 --> 00:49:15.620\nIn your next meeting or decision, ask this simple question.\n\n1220\n00:49:15.620 --> 00:49:19.180\nAre we looking at the full picture?\n\n1221\n00:49:19.180 --> 00:49:24.260\nAre we seeking the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth?\n\n1222\n00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:26.580\nEncourage your team to bring that intellectual\n\n1223\n00:49:26.580 --> 00:49:30.300\nand honesty to the table, even when it isn't convenient\n\n1224\n00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:33.620\nbecause Mary's absolutely right when she says,\n\n1225\n00:49:33.620 --> 00:49:37.460\n\"The truth, the truth will set you free.\"\n\n1226\n00:49:37.460 --> 00:49:39.140\nSo do you wanna know how leaders lead?\n\n1227\n00:49:39.140 --> 00:49:42.060\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders seek the truth.\n\n1228\n00:49:42.060 --> 00:49:45.220\nComing up next on \"How leaders lead\" is Dave Mackay,\n\n1229\n00:49:45.220 --> 00:49:48.340\npresident and CEO of RBC.\n\n1230\n00:49:48.340 --> 00:49:50.780\nThat's the Royal Bank of Canada.\n\n1231\n00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:54.100\n- I see leaders who wanna take a risk but keep it quiet.\n\n1232\n00:49:54.100 --> 00:49:54.940\nI don't want anyone to see\n\n1233\n00:49:54.940 --> 00:49:57.860\nand if I'm successful, I'll tell you about it the day,\n\n1234\n00:49:57.860 --> 00:49:59.900\nbut then it's hard to marshal resource\n\n1235\n00:49:59.900 --> 00:50:01.460\nand excitement and organization\n\n1236\n00:50:01.460 --> 00:50:03.460\nif you don't declare yourself.\n\n1237\n00:50:03.460 --> 00:50:05.220\n- So be sure to subscribe to YouTube\n\n1238\n00:50:05.220 --> 00:50:07.540\nor wherever you go to get your podcast\n\n1239\n00:50:07.540 --> 00:50:09.380\nso you don't miss it.\n\n1240\n00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:11.580\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode\n\n1241\n00:50:11.580 --> 00:50:13.740\nof \"How leaders lead\" where every Thursday\n\n1242\n00:50:13.740 --> 00:50:16.260\nyou get to listen in while I interview some\n\n1243\n00:50:16.260 --> 00:50:18.420\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1244\n00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:20.460\nI make it a point to give you something simple\n\n1245\n00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:23.900\non each episode that you can apply to your business\n\n1246\n00:50:23.900 --> 00:50:27.180\nso that you'll become the best leader that you can be.","

Mary Barra 0:00

Seek truth. Was really our message to the entire company, don't just give us something that optimizes your area. But it was that frustration of decisions coming to us that weren't the whole truth because they didn't look at it from an enterprise perspective. Let's get to the truth that what someone wants it to be, what is it? How can you demonstrate it with information, data and information, so we can make the very best decision quickly.

David Novak 0:32

Hey, when you're leading at the highest level, there's one thing you can't afford to lose sight of. Welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader that you can be. My guest today is Mary Barra, the chair and CEO of General Motors. She started working at GM when she was just 18 years old, inspecting fenders and bumpers, no less, and today, she's leading the company through one of the biggest transformations in automotive history. And you know what really impresses me about Mary? It's her relentless commitment to seek the truth, to push for clarity and intellectual honesty as she and her team make decisions. Unfortunately, a lot of leaders end up making decisions based on assumptions or wishful thinking or just the spin of internal politics. But as you'll learn today, the best decisions and the strongest teams are built when everyone aligns around what's real, not what's convenient. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Mary Barra, you

I read that you drove a Chevrolet Chevette in college. Now, what did that say about who you were at that time and stage of your life?

Mary Barra 1:56

Well, it's a really funny story, David, because actually, you know, my dad was a die maker at Pontiac mortar division, and so we had gone to the Pontiac motor law and we had put a down payment on a Firebird. And so I was thinking, wow, this is really great. I'm going to be driving a Firebird. Went home, and my mother reminded both my dad and I that I needed to pay for college, and so we had to go back and get the deposit back. And then that's when I ended up with a Chevette. But I have to tell you, it was a great vehicle got me through college, and after I used it, and I was at work, so I was able to buy another vehicle. It got my brother through med school. So it was a very reliable Chevy Chevette.

David Novak 2:37

I have to ask you this one. I'm sure everybody wants to know. What are you driving this week?

Mary Barra 2:42

Well, right now I I'm waiting, actually, for a new blazer EV to come in. Before that, I was driving a Hummer SUV, but we also have a Yukon, one of our brand new internal combustion into mid size or full size SUVs, and so that's what I'm driving. But I'm waiting for that blazer I like to always have one ice and one EV to just make sure I'm looking at

David Novak 3:07

all of our vehicles. How often do you switch up the cars you drive? Well, that's the best part of

Mary Barra 3:11

my job. I you know, anytime I want to drive one of our new vehicles to experience it for a weekend or for a period of time, I can do that. So that's one of the best parts of working for a car company is getting to experience all our vehicles. I love

David Novak 3:23

it and and how do you team take a look at competition. Do you drive the competitors cars as well? Or

Mary Barra 3:29

we do? We do. I would say the people that probably spend the most time driving our competitor vehicles are our chief engineers and our Head of Product Development. They generally many times a month. On Fridays, they have drives out at our Milford proving grounds, and we'll drive our vehicles along with the competition to make sure we know what we got to do to win and have the best vehicle and segment. You know,

David Novak 3:51

it's clear, you know, I've done from all my research. You know, you're, you're known for being a very innovative leader, someone who really invents not only your company, but your but yourself. And you're making major strides. Looking out, what do you think vehicles be like 10 years from now? And what should be on people's minds? Well, I

Mary Barra 4:09

think there's two things everybody's talking about, the change in propulsion, going from internal combustion engine to EVs, and I think that will happen because EVs are fun, fun to drive, instant torque, and you never need to go to the gas station. But there's two trends I think that are even more significant. One is the fact that the vehicle is now a software platform. I think that there's so much we can do to provide the customer with even better experiences, integrating their life and their phone and everything into it, into the vehicle, but doing it safely. So I think continuing to make life safer and more convenient from that perspective. But then I also think there's a huge opportunity with autonomy. And right now, General Motors were really proud just within the last month, Motor Trend named our driver assistance technology super cruise as the best in the industry and but I think we can continue to improve upon. That getting all the way to what is called l4 autonomy, where, literally, the car is responsible and drive right now, driver assistance, you're still responsible. You've got to be paying attention. But it's a journey that will get there. So I believe in 10 years, will, will will be there, and people will drive when it's fun to drive, but when it's not, they'll have the opportunity for the vehicle to drive itself. It's so

David Novak 5:21

interesting and fascinating just how much your industry is changing. And I would imagine as a CEO, you've had to really evolve the culture to get people to really be on top of everything that's going on in terms of technology and AI and where things are going. How have you how have you gone about doing that? Well, I think

Mary Barra 5:38

as you know, as the battery technology came in, as software became so important, it's bringing in people outside the company who are experts, who really bring that expertise. And so hiring people who have spent time in the battery industry well before electric vehicles were were the focus. Or, you know, our software team is led by people from Apple and meta, Amazon, Microsoft, Google. And, you know, the thing that was interesting about that is we were able to track that talent because they want to be part of this industry, and what a great American company like General Motors can do to lead going into our next 100 years. So it's been fun. But then what I think the key has been, is marrying that, that knowledge and that expertise from the outside in, with the people who know how to do great vehicles really well, deeply integrated, beautifully designed. And so it's really been integrating the new, you know, people with new skill sets, to people with the skill sets you really need to put great cars, trucks and crossovers on the road, and that's that's something that's been really fun to see happen, and to get the teams to work well together. Yeah,

David Novak 6:46

I would say that be a heck of a challenge, because you basically have the legacy members of GM that who know the business so well. You bring in all these new people. What is the single biggest thing you've done to be integrate people with such different backgrounds?

Mary Barra 7:00

Well, I think first of all is making sure everybody got to know each other and spending time with each other. Because it's hard to dislike someone when you get to know them. It's easy when it's that person way over there, the person on the West Coast, not in Detroit. So a lot of it's been spending time together, getting to know each other, but then making sure, I think there's been a healthy respect going both ways of whoa, this software, and the way you do it is really making our vehicles better. And oh my gosh, I didn't realize how complex it was to put a great vehicle on the road. So I think a core tenet is getting the teams together and then they really respect the work of the other individual and learn we're only going to win if we work together. So there were some bumpy spots there that we had to work through, but we made it very clear, and you know we were going to change, or, you know, we weren't going to win. And I think, you know, the great leaders rose to the occasion Absolutely.

David Novak 7:49

And you know, I can't wait to hear how you are leading it. GM, but you know, first I want to take you back. You know, what's the story from your childhood that you think really shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Mary Barra 8:00

Well, I think, you know, both of my parents were born and raised during the Depression, and so they understood the, I think, the the value of hard work and the importance of work, but my mother, especially also believed in the American dream. So she believed, if you worked hard, you could do and be anything you wanted to be. And I think that stuck with me. But it's this, you work before you play. It matters the quality of work. And, you know, wanting to work harder than the next person and be that go to person for your boss, etc. So I think it's the power of hard work. You

David Novak 8:36

know, I understand that. You know, your father worked at G M, you just mentioned that, you know, what kind of impression did that leave on you growing up, just his, his upbringing in GM,

Mary Barra 8:47

well, I mean, I think one it was something he was very proud of the work he did. And he should have, he worked very hard. He was able to, you know, raise our family. And, you know, it was a great, you know, a great childhood that I had, my brother and I and so I think he was very proud of what he was able to accomplish. But also then every now and then, he'd talk about the vehicle he was working on, or he'd get to bring a vehicle home, and the whole neighborhood would come over to see that vehicle. And we as kids, we'd climb through it and look at every inch of it. And I think, you know, that kind of was that, you know, made the industry kind of a part of my, part of just who I am,

David Novak 9:22

and you've been in this industry is since you've been 18 years old. You know, what is it about the company that's kept you with it all these years? You know, people move around so much anyway, but you've, you've had tremendous continuity and grown from within. You know, what has it been, what's been the glue that's kept you

Mary Barra 9:41

there? Well, I think early in my career, I just had so many opportunities. I mean, General Motors sent me to Stanford to get my MBA. I worked in an assembly plan. I had overseas opportunities to work with our teams overseas as we were globalizing. And I got to work in many different functions. I think what that taught me, though, is. So many great people at GM who work hard and really care. Call it that, you know, Detroit grit, that you know the team has. And I realized how talented people were, and so that as I was going, as we were going through the rough times like the bankruptcy, I knew this company had great people and we could do great vehicles, and I wanted to be a part of that. Never thinking I would have the opportunity to be CEO, and when I did, and then we had to work through some of the challenges, whether it was the very devastating ignition switch recall, but we really learned and drove culture change because of that, and then managing through COVID and the semiconductor challenge. And, you know, currently, all the challenges we face today, I think what keeps me here is one. It's an exciting industry. I mean, we get to be such a special part of people's lives. I get letters from people, you know, sometimes telling me they're not happy, and we take care of those. But you wouldn't believe the letters I get from people telling that me they've named their vehicle, and their vehicle is a part of their life that they, you know, got taken them through thick and thin and and it's, I think it's the excitement of the industry and then being a part of this transformation that's happening right now. When in an industry, do you get to be a part of so much transformation and really shape what the company is going to be? I think that's what excites me and motivates me every day. Yeah, and I

David Novak 11:16

want to get more into that. But you know, the fact is that you started out at 18, and you end up becoming the CEO. You had a lot of different jobs. What advice can you give the people coming up on terms of how they can really differentiate themselves and and move up the ladder, particularly in a corporation? You

Mary Barra 11:35

know, so often I see people who are very talented and very smart but are more focused on their next job than they are on the one they're in. And I always say, do the job like you're going to do it for the rest of your life, because then you own it. You're not kind of passing through it's like a vehicle who washes a rental car. And so own, own your job and make, you know, make structural changes to it, build the network you need to be more effective and to do your job better. And I think those, those are the people that get noticed and then get the opportunity. And then I would also say, you know, be in an industry where you love the product. I mean, not every day is going to be, you know, fun of going out to the proving ground and driving cars or walking through design. But you know, if you love the industry and love, love the the challenge that it brings, I think you're going to do a better job as well. You know,

David Novak 12:25

Mary, you obviously have such a passion for the industry and an infectious energy about you in when, when you were moving up at GM. Can you tell us a story of where you kind of differentiated yourself as as a leader, where people really saw that you had the capability to do, do more than your job, but really, really lead people. Well, I think,

Mary Barra 12:47

you know, it started, David, when I, when I first started in the corporation, I was pretty shy, and so I wouldn't speak up always. And then I'd, you know, I'd be in a meeting, and I'd be thinking something, but I did say it, and then somebody else eventually would say it or it wouldn't get said. And one of the things I learned, and I got great advice from a person. I had many mentors at GM, but one of the mentors said, you know, Mary, no one knows what you're thinking if you don't speak up, so don't be afraid to speak if you're wrong. And that's advice I give people joining the company today, but I think it's once I got that confidence to speak up, and then I think what differentiated me is I would go the extra mile, and I was working to make sure I didn't understand just my piece of it, but the whole business. And I think having that perspective and really looking much broader than just my sole responsibility was how I distinguish myself in those early days.

David Novak 13:37

Tell me a story about when you found out you were going to become the CEO.

Mary Barra 13:42

I understood I was being I was in consideration. And then my predecessor, unfortunately, his wife, was diagnosed with an illness, and the whole timeline was was shortened dramatically. The whole board was at a hotel, and we were having our meeting there, and they pulled me in and told me, you know, I was going to be CEO, and I'm like, you know, oh my gosh. And but then I had to go right into the right into the boardroom, and I didn't get a chance to tell my husband. And so I was just dying that whole time to be able to text my husband and say, oh my gosh, I was selected. As soon as I was done, that was the first thing I did. And got home later that night, and obviously I could tell no one, but we went and had a just the two of us, had a dinner to celebrate very quietly, and I'll remember that phone call and that dinner for the rest of my life, makes

David Novak 14:32

sense. And being the CEO, was this something you really sought out. Well, you

Mary Barra 14:36

know, through my career, I always was looking for ways that I continue to grow and advance. And I think I like leading people. I like to understand what makes people tick, and how do you motivate them to do and be their very best? How do you provide that environment? So when I never had really thought about it, because, you know, frankly, at that time, I was running product development, which is probably one of the best jobs in the company. And. So when I understood I was being considered for it, you know, I thought about it, but then I did. I wanted, I aspired to, to work hard to be able to achieve the role. So it wasn't something I planned for my whole career. But once I knew I was in the running, of course, I worked hard and tried to distinguish myself, and was fortunate enough to be selected. Now,

David Novak 15:19

Mary, you're the CEO, but you were the very first female CEO of a major global automaker. Did that bring a lot of extra pressure to you? I have to imagine it did. You know

Mary Barra 15:29

it did? Because so often people would say, Mary, you're the first woman CEO of an automotive company. And I'm like, well, there's no question there. I'm like, Yes, that's true. And I had to realize, because, again, my mother taught me that if I worked hard, I could do and be anything. So what I didn't realize there's a lot of young people, and especially little girls, who, if they didn't see someone, they didn't think they could be, you know, it's like, I cannot be what I cannot see. And that's just not the way I was raised. So then I realized I had a really important role to help make sure women understood, yes, you can achieve these kinds of jobs. And I also am passionate about STEM and so helping, you know, young ladies, young girls in, you know, elementary or middle school, study hard in math, study hard in science. Understand technology, because I think that's technology is changing, changing every industry. And so I've, I've realized I had a greater responsibility to to be that role model so little girls would study and believe they could be engineers and move forward. Hi

Koula Callahan 16:37

everyone. It's cool from how leaders lead, and if you're seeing my face right now. It means you're watching this interview on YouTube. I want to say thanks. Thanks for watching it on YouTube. And if you love the show, subscribe to the channel so you never miss an episode, and if you like one of the episodes, let us know in the comments. I want to just give a shout out to a couple folks who have left some positive reviews. This guy says you are a great podcaster. David. Shout out, David. You are a great podcaster. Someone else said, earn to subscribe to the channel I listened from start to end. You guys, these conversations are incredible, as you know, and if you love them, hit, subscribe on our channel. Leave a comment. If you love one of the episodes, it'll help us in our mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And you know, we truly believe that better workplaces, better communities and a better world starts with better leaders. And when you help this podcast grow, it helps us do more of that. So subscribe to the channel. Let us know if you love one of the shows and that we might even feature you in one of the episodes. So subscribe to the channel today, and thank you so much for listening. You

David Novak 17:43

know, you're such an out and out leader. I mean, you're clearly a leader. I hesitated to even ask that question. And I was wondering, you know, did get tired of getting that

Mary Barra 17:53

question? I did because, you know, I'd like to think I got the job because I was the best person for the job. So I did get tired of it. And that's like I said, that's when the light bulb went on. It said, look, and said, Look, this is an important role for me to model for all those little girls who didn't have my mom in their ear saying, you could do and be everything. I grew to appreciate why the question was asked so often. So

David Novak 18:14

you take over CEO in January 2014 and welcome to the job, because you're immediately thrust into this situation where you have to do a major product recall because of faulty ignition switch. Tell me how this tested your leadership.

Mary Barra 18:31

Well, it was, it was quite the challenge, because, again, most of the leadership team was in new positions. I'll never forget, I actually got the phone call as I was driving home, I was pulling into the garage, and I actually sat in the car. Was driving an Escalade, sat in the Escalade, understood what was happening. And again, we were always guided, like we've got to do the right thing. The thing that a lot of people don't understand is when you have something like that that happens, you don't know everything. And so we started to meet every single day to understand and started our own internal investigation. We've, you know, learned that the root issue that was causing the problem was actually engineering that had been done over a decade before. In the late 90s, we were the team that was going to deal with it. I think one of the things that most people didn't know we were the ones who actually figured it out and self reported that we knew what the problem was that then, you know, started the whole ignition, ignition switch case, but we just mathematically did the right things we and we were guided by three principles. We were going to be transparent, we were going to do everything we could to protect the customer, and we were going to do everything in our power to make sure nothing like this ever happened again. And that's what guided us. We spoke a lot to the employees, help helping them understand because it became so public, I testifying in front of Congress is something I probably would recommend not, not having to do, especially when you have a problem. But I also knew when I was there, I was speaking to our employees, and I wanted them to be proud of me. Is the way I represented the company. And so we just kept working through it. We made lasting change. One of the things I always said is I always ask our team. I say, what is, and this is, I'll talk to all employees, I'll say, When is the best time to solve a problem? And they kind of look at me and I look like the minute, you know you have one, because problems do not get smaller. And so we now are champion and to this day, even though, I would say almost 40% of our technical talent wasn't here when that happened, once a year, we have a safety week, and we start every meeting with the safety, safety protocols and a safety message. But once a year, we dedicate a whole week every month we remind people for those, those employees that weren't even here when the admission switch recall happened in 2014 what it was and why we do what we do, and how we all have to be committed to making sure we solve problems early and we never let something like that happen again. So it was a, it was difficult. Don't get me wrong, I think my team, because I got through it, because we work together as a team. And it was a it was also just kind of something that's foundational for me right now, we're going to do the right thing even when it's hard. And I think a lot of times when people have tough situations, I think they've got a decision to make, you don't you have to do the right thing. You know,

David Novak 21:16

it was interesting, because when that happened, I was at young brands, and we I brought my team together, and we had crisis happen a lot of times around the world. And we really studied what you did, and one of the things that we were most impressed with was that you took the blame for a lot of things that you didn't directly contribute to. Obviously, the technology happened a decade before that caused the problem. You know, what's your view on a leader stepping up and taking responsibility like you did, even for things that maybe you had nothing to do with.

Mary Barra 21:46

Well, I think at the time I was the CEO, everything, it stops with me. But also I think it was so important to tell tell all our employees, hey, things are going to happen outside of your control. If you're in the chair, you own them, you've got to fix them. We can't make excuses. We always have to be focused on the customer and doing the right thing for the customer. And it was my responsibility to fix what we needed to do, and that's why I'm so proud of the fact that we not only changed engineering processes, validation processes, our whole quality process on how we look at things, but we also, I think, drove culture change, because it's easy to say, this is what I believe in, or this is what we want the values of the company to be. When everything's going great, it's a lot harder to and but you have the opportunity in a crisis to demonstrate to your employees we really mean it. And I think that was foundational for the entire company. They knew we meant it, and we were right there with them. So you really

David Novak 22:42

drove safety and made that a prominent driver of your culture. And as you look at your your business today, what are you trying to put your stamp on now to make the culture even better?

Mary Barra 22:54

Well, one is continuing the strong safety message, and that's why I said we start every meeting. We've expanded. It's it's not just product safety, but workplace safety and just psychological safety in the workplace of you know, making sure people can are in an environment where they can do their best work. So I think we've grown it, and we're now working on, how far can we bring it back into the process to make sure we don't ever have a problem, and so we keep working backward from that, I would think that's something important. I think another thing I'm trying to drive into the company is the speed at which we need to move this industry. In every industry, technology is changing so quickly, and yesterday's winner aren't guaranteed that they'll be tomorrow's winners. So speed matters. I feel confident we have the right strategy, but it's can we execute it faster and better than our competition? Because that's what it's going to take in this fast paced world we live in now. So safety is a foundation. Culture of our company is a foundation. But I think speed of how we innovate to serve the customer better than others is something we're really focused on right now. Another

David Novak 23:59

thing that I know you're very focused on, or I read about, is just, you love building an organization of truth tellers. I mean, you're looking for the truth no matter, matter what it is, which is great. Do you have a Do you have a fun story, or maybe, maybe it's not so fun story of where, where you got that kind of truth? And it really helped the company.

Mary Barra 24:17

Well, what we found, actually, one of our values is seek truth. Because in a company this big, what we found, and it was our president, Mark Royce, and I, we would found many times, people would come in with a proposal, but if it was only a part of the organization, it wasn't an enterprise wide solution. And so, you know, and then it would be like we felt like we were somewhat playing whack a boat. Okay, well, yeah, I can solve that problem, but it creates this problem over here, and there's one over here and one over here. And so see, truth was really our message to the entire company, from our individual contributors all the way to our vice presidents of give us enterprise solutions. Don't just give us something that optimizes your area. But it was that frustration. Of decisions coming to us that weren't the whole but I would say they weren't the whole truth because they didn't look at it from an enterprise perspective. And that's something we still say today, is, you know, let what's let's get to the truth, not what someone wants it to be. What is it? How can you demonstrate it with information, data and information, so we can make the very best decision quickly. You

David Novak 25:21

know, you have a company where you have nearly 170,000 team members around the world, and you know, how do you, how do you give people a sense, no matter where they're at in the organization, that they count? Well, I

Mary Barra 25:34

think part of it is our work to make sure that everybody feels valued. We do regular engagement. We benchmark our information across other other industries and other companies, and then we hold our leadership and managers leaders all the way up to to the My organ, my leadership team, the SLT, what are we doing to solve what our employees are telling us? And one of the things we actually had a double down on recently is with all the change that's happening in the industry, we weren't communicating enough to everyone, so now we've doubled down on communicating to our senior leaders, our leaders, but then doing more global town halls where people can ask questions. The other thing we started doing that I think has really helped is after every quarterly earnings, the CFO and I, we do a global Town Hall, where we literally make comments for one or two minutes, and then we go into employee questions, and we talk about what they want to talk about. We talk about what they're not clear on. And so that had, and it's, it's, you know, pushed out through the whole company. It's recorded for people who are in different time zones, so they can watch it. And I think those have been effective, effective ways to help get the whole company aligned, and then I really believe in this is something I started believing early in my career. If people feel like they're valued, listened to, and their work is respected, they're going to do a better job. Because, you know, it's the I don't care what you know until I know that you care. We really work on that part of engagement, so every single person understands what their responsibilities are, but knows their work is respected. And

David Novak 27:09

you've built a great track record for doing what you say. You consistently hit your earnings great performance. What do you think is the best practice that you really drive as a leader that helps get the kind of consistent results that you've generated.

Mary Barra 27:26

I think one it's teamwork. I can't tell you how many times, whether it was when we had a shutdown all of our facilities with COVID that we got the team, a cross functional team, working okay? What is it going to take to get people back to work safely? When we got into the semiconductor shortage, and we literally never had we worried about it. There was always an excess of semiconductors. All of a sudden, you couldn't get the semiconductors that we needed. And again, it was a cross functional team that started meeting on a daily basis. Leadership met on a daily basis to help remove roadblocks, to help make priority decisions. So across the board, I think it's teamwork is what has allowed us, because it could seem like a really difficult problem on your own, but when you get everybody together, all of a sudden, they're like, Well, I can do this, and I can do this. And okay, we can't, we can't make that, but we can make this. And I think it's that cross functional teamwork of here's the challenge, how do we collectively? And I will tell you the what the team comes up with. It just amazes me, of what they're able to, you know, like, hey, look what we figured out we can do again to meet our meet our financial commitments, as well as and, more importantly, serve the customer. You

David Novak 28:37

know, one thing I love, Mary is when people go public with big, big goals, and you've definitely done that. I mean, you've committed to being an all EV electric vehicle by 2035, now, what have you seen happen inside the company, planning your flag, flag like that, and why would you come out make such a bold statement like that?

Mary Barra 28:58

Well, I think a couple things. And it's an interesting that you ask that now in this era, I never thought the propulsion system, necessarily in the vehicle, would become political. But first of all, we'll always be guided by the customer, and so as we put our strategy forward, we are always going to do what is in the best interest and what the customer is guiding us to do. But when we did that several years ago now, there was too much debate in the company of if and when EVs were going to be, you know, driving the industry. And we needed, I recognized in our senior leadership, we recognized we had to get people to stop debating and start working on what are the plans to make it true. And so when we put the proclamation that we plan to be all electric by 2035 for our light duty vehicles, it stopped the internal debate of if we should, and people got working on what would it take. Now we can always make adjustments, but if we're still arguing about when, instead of figuring out what it was just. A good place for the company to be. So that was one of the reasons that I could I was convinced it was the right thing to do, is to get the company front, off of the debate and into the action phase. A

David Novak 30:09

lot of times, I would make some fairly big pronounces myself, and then we'd have a setback when you're chasing that kind of big goal. Can you tell me a story of maybe when you had a setback going after something this aggressive, and how you, how you work it through with your your team? Well,

Mary Barra 30:25

I think with EVs a couple years ago, in really, in 23 we were all set. We had a lot of EVs planned to launch, and we realized the automation we were using to make modules, it wasn't working. We weren't able to get at rate. And this was something that was, I think, doubly hard for me, because I grew up in manufacturing, so I'm like, wait a minute, what do you mean we can't build modules? And it turned out to be a pretty significant challenge. There was a whole host of reasons, but that was a setback where I had to explain to the street why we weren't getting the number of EVs out that we thought we were now in the background, we were again meeting on it, cross functional team working on it, and within about eight months, we were able to solve the issue. But that was probably one of the most public pronouncements I'd made that I had, I had a, you know, walk it back and but again, the way we handle it is we told the truth. We said, look, it's not that our vehicles aren't ready. It's not that they're not right. It's not that we don't have the battery cells. We literally are having automation challenges with building modules for battery packs. So we were honest. It cost us. It hurt for, you know, almost a year, but we then, you know, last year was a year of execution, and I couldn't be more proud of the team, of how they executed. But it was painful. Yeah,

David Novak 31:40

those times definitely are and but you know, the honesty always proves to give you the credibility. In the end, just everything

Mary Barra 31:48

in this world where everything is so transparent, I used to, I have two, two grown children now, but when they were growing up, I always used to say, the truth will set you free. It may not get you out of trouble, but it will be a lot better than if I find out you're not telling me the truth. So I'm a big believer the truth will set you free.

David Novak 32:04

That's good advice, you know. And Tesla has obviously been the front runner in the US with the EVS. And what have you learned from watching them that that's fueling your own innovation for growth?

Mary Barra 32:14

Well, I think one of the things that I you know, again, very capable vehicles. It's a very impressive team, what they were able to do, but I think, you know, early on, when they came out with a vehicle that had over 300 miles of range, that was huge, because others who had EVs out there 300 miles became consumer of if it's over 300 they felt confident for most of the time that they could they get to where they needed to be, and they weren't. They didn't have charge anxiety, and so they really set the standard there. What they've done with their their charging network was very impressive as well. I was happy that we were able to work with Tesla and open up the charging network to GM vehicles as well. They've done a very capable vehicle that is competition that we have to understand and work hard to surpass

David Novak 33:02

despite the fact you've had consistent results and such an impressive track record, it seems like everybody predicts the demise of US auto makers. You know, you've been the best among all of them. But you know, what do you say to everybody says, Hey, GMs, they're on the way out. You know, it's just not going to happen. They're not changing fast enough. I mean, obviously you're kind of have a lot going on these days. Well, one

Mary Barra 33:25

is we show them our product portfolio, whether it's our internal combustion engine or our EV vehicles, and they keep winning awards, and we're growing share both in our, what we call ice internal combustion and our EVs. And so we're going to continue to do that. We're going to continue to put points on the board from an earnings perspective and and but demonstrate that, you know, we are different. I mean, one of the the South Side analysts, you know, it said, you know, we're the best house in a bad neighborhood. And so I've used that with the team. I said, Okay, we got to move neighborhoods, because we've got a good house. Let's let's focus on getting people to understand we're in a different neighborhood. Product is what will help us get there. I mean, at the end of the day, this is, as I said before, this is such an important purchase for most people. We've got to make sure we have the best product from a from a design, beautifully designed, from from Ranger, performance, from functionality, etc. And if we continue to execute and have great products, we'll win, and people will recognize that we are going to be around and we're going to lead.

David Novak 34:29

And you have a great manufacturing background, you said. And then when you became CEO, you were ahead of product development. How did you pick up your marketing skills in your customer focus, which you've got to have. I mean, you know, if you're not customer centric, you're going to die. I mean, was this in the wood to begin with, or is this something you had to develop?

Mary Barra 34:47

Well, I think it really was helpful in when I was in manufacturing, it was all about quality, because, you know, wanted to make sure the vehicles we built were the highest equality, so customers didn't have have issues. And product development. Now we have all the chief engineers who are deciding, what is this product going to be. We start with a blank piece of paper, and have to make all the decisions, what's the design, what's the functionality, you know, what's the space in the back seat, the leg room? You know, every dimension of a vehicle you start with, and you have to define. And that's where we really learn. I learned just how much work we had to do to really understand the customer for a Corvette versus a heavy duty truck, you know, versus an equinox. And so that was very helpful. And I would say, in the marketing side, I'm still a student, but I have to say we have great, great marketing team led by norm degrave, who has really bought, brought a lot to our team and taught me a lot about marketing. So I think as a CEO, you can never have sat in every chair, so you've got to be curious and be a learner, even when you're the CEO.

David Novak 35:47

And you know, one thing that every company has to wrestle with is just the risk of becoming too insular. You know, how do you how do you keep your company, keep GM, externally focused, not only on the customer, but everything else that's going on around the world.

Mary Barra 36:01

Well, I think it gets to bringing in talent from outside the industry. So they bring different industries perspective as one, I think regularly looking at our competitors products, to understand where they're headed. Obviously, we monitor everything. We have a team on competitive intelligence, understanding what's happening around the world. And then, you know, focused on, where are the trends? I realized in 2015 that our industry was changing. And you know, whether it was the way the vehicle was propelled, the way software was changing it, the way autonomy was changing it. And so, you know, we regularly, in those early years, spent time in Silicon Valley, meeting with the different tech companies and Stanford just to understand. So I think it's you have to force yourself, because I think being insular was one of the things that hurt General Motors. They went from the success of the 50s and 60s, and I think they stopped looking outside, which I think any company that stops really looking at what's happening, does it at their own risk, and then, especially with how quickly technology is moving and changing, everything we do you have to stay, you know, just actively looking to learn and understand how you could make your own business better.

David Novak 37:14

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Mary bear in just a moment. Well, Masters week is here, and it's the perfect excuse to check out my conversation with the Golden Bear himself, Jack Nicklaus, when I asked Jack what made him so consistently successful in his golf game over the years, he didn't talk about the talent or the skill that he had. He talked about the power of preparation. First of all, I think being prepared is probably the most important thing in any walk of life. You can't walk into a business meeting, you can't walk into anything or sales or anything if you're not prepared. And I prided myself on being prepared to play when I was ready to play. Wanted to play. And so as I went in each of those majors, I really geared myself early in the year for the Masters, and I practiced on courses that I thought were courses that would help me for Augustine. And so when I got to Augusta, I was ready to play Augusta. And so being prepared, being ready and being focused on on those events were something that that I really prided myself on and you know, if you're not prepared, you're not gonna you're not gonna perform. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Jack, Episode 21 here on how leaders lead. One of the things I enjoy most about having conversations like this is I always learn when I do them, and one of the things that I've learned is I've learned about you is this concept called ambidextrous leadership. Say more

Mary Barra 38:44

ambidextrous leadership is, how do I manage for today and manage and look over the horizon for tomorrow? And you have to be an ambidextrous leader to manage today while setting the strategy for tomorrow. Otherwise you might perfect today, but it's relevant for where the industry and the world is going. So that's been really helpful concept to have, and our leaders have embraced it. How

David Novak 39:08

do you manage your own time with that in mind? What does an ambidextrous calendar look like for you? Well,

Mary Barra 39:13

I try to spend more of my time on strategy, although if we're having issues, I'll dig deep. I think it's the engineer in me, you know, I really like to look and I don't manage it on a day or a week basis, but I do go back every now and then and look at how much time have I spent on what's for the future of the company versus the problems of today. We do that with our board as well, making sure that for most of the board is focused on what's what's in the future. And how do we get all the insights, all the expertise on our board has to make sure we're making the right strategic decisions. So I think it's my job to really force the organization to do that, and to have the right leaders, one in two and three levels below that can manage the day to day and in their area, be looking at what do they need to be aware of to make their area better? How is technology? Changing it, etc. You

David Novak 40:01

know, as a leader, Mary, how are you going about just sharpening your own acts and getting better and better as a leader? What are you working on these days? Well,

Mary Barra 40:09

I would say I'm working on making sure I understand AI and just using using the tools in my daily life. Spending time with our team. We just did a session at the end of last week with one of our tech leaders, our whole leadership team, we spend over an hour understanding, you know, what the hype is versus what's real. But even we're learning how you can create an app with not ever touching the keyboard. So I think it's, you know, for me, I think because I'm an engineer, I have to do it, to understand it. And then I would also say, you know, just reading of everything that's happening around the world is so important to stay up on trends on business around the globe. You know, Mary, this

David Novak 40:46

has been so much fun, and now I want to have my traditional round of lightning round questions. Here, are you ready for this? I'm ready. Okay, the three words that best describe you, fair, optimistic and driven. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself. Who would it be? Maybe Taylor

Mary Barra 41:02

Swift. My daughter's a big Taylor Swift Fan, and she's made me I'm a Swifty.

David Novak 41:07

Our family is too. What's your biggest pet peeve when people

Mary Barra 41:10

don't tell the truth? Who would play you in a movie? One of my favorite actresses is Jennifer Anderson, so she's younger than me, so probably not. But why not? Okay,

David Novak 41:20

why not? Have you ever named one of your vehicles?

Mary Barra 41:24

Yes, our kids actually did when they were when we were growing up, we had a Tim pataho,

David Novak 41:30

fantastic name a car you're building at GM that everyone should test drive. Oh, there's so

Mary Barra 41:35

many. David, That's so unfair. They should get in. Let me give you a couple. An equinox TV, Chevrolet track, the lyric. Those are just a few. Like I said, I could go on and on, because having run product development, every product has a special place in my heart. I

David Novak 41:50

knew it was unfair question, but I asked it anyway. What's something that only the CEO of GM knows about GM?

Mary Barra 41:55

I think, unfortunately, it's the best kept secret of how talented our people are. I think people look and they think we're old. When I tell them, over 40% of our technical talent has been with the company less than five, four or five years, they kind of look at me with this shock. So that's the capability of the team.

David Novak 42:11

Fantastic. What makes Detroit so special? You know, it's what

Mary Barra 42:15

that it's that grit that I talked about. It's a sports town. It's a I was just at a Red Wings game yesterday. It is. It's just, it's a town where people work hard, and I don't know, maybe it's the winters we go through, but it there's this grit in Detroit that we're gonna we're gonna get through things, and we're going to work hard. And, you know, it's also a city in the in the Midwest, so we're nice, but we work hard and we're determined. What's the

David Novak 42:42

one thing you do, just for you? I'd love to shop besides your family. What's your most prized possession?

Mary Barra 42:48

Well, my dog is part of my family. So my family is everything I you know, I have two grown children. I have a husband that will celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary this year, and my dog Hunter is pretty special, but, you know, I can't think of once you have your family, I guess my health, you have your family, and you have your health, you kind of have,

David Novak 43:06

you have a lot. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Country music, probably you and me both. What's something about you? Few people would know I'm not the most coordinated person. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss? I need iced

Mary Barra 43:20

tea in the morning. I used to, it used to be Diet Coke. A long time ago, I switched to ice tea, but I need that iced tea in the morning.

David Novak 43:26

All right, Mary, we're out of that lightning round. Great job. Just a few more questions. We'll wrap this up. You know, GM has always been a very innovative company and thinker, you know, I guess in I read where in your Articles of incorporations, 115 years ago, you talked about electric vehicles and even flying vehicles, you know. So it really is in your your DNA, how are you thinking about the environment that's going to, you know, empower people to have that kind of innovation, you know, let's say, 100 years from now, when they look back at in 2025 they say, Oh, look what they did that.

Mary Barra 44:04

Well, I think it's really engaging. I think a lot of people think somebody else is going to innovate. I'm just going to do my job. And it's really getting every person to understand that they can innovate. One of my the coolest stories about General Motors is one of the innovations with Cadillac, way, back when is they invented the electric starter. And why did they do it? Because before an electric starter, the way you started a vehicle is you cranked it. It was a crank turn. I'm told that's where the term cranky came from, because it was hard. People would break their arms doing it. Women and people of small stature had a hard time doing it. And so General Motors was so customer focused. They said, Okay, how do we solve this? The electric starter? I tell that story just because think about how it's such a customer facing but such an innovative of we're going to solve the things that the customer finds the least or the most challenging with our vehicle, or the thing they dislike the most. Dollars, and we're going to solve it everyone, every engineer, every single person in the company, can be thinking along those lines. And so we try to drive innovation everywhere, into the company. You

David Novak 45:11

know, as a CEO, you're also a mom, and you've mentioned your family really being your most prized possession. How have you integrated the the two over the years. Well,

Mary Barra 45:21

I, I'm really proud of the fact that, you know, there were times where, when the kids were little, you know, I take the break so we could have family dinner together, and they'd go to bed and I'd start working again. Sometimes did crazy things on my schedule to make that cross country meet or that hockey game or that soccer match, because and my kids knew I was there. And so, you know, I, what I encourage people to do is that period of time you think it's going to go on forever, but it doesn't. And when it when your kids graduate from high school, unless they're playing, you know, college sports, that phase is over. So there's moments that you shouldn't miss, and only you can prioritize for yourself, because only you know what's important. I chose what was important to me, but that was an excuse to not get my work done and to excel, but sometimes it took a lot of creativity, and I think my kids know that, and they're proud of me for it, and they're proud of what I've accomplished.

David Novak 46:15

And you're celebrating your 40th wedding anniversary. What do you think makes a partnership work like that? What has got to happen to be able to have that kind of an enduring relationship? Well, I

Mary Barra 46:28

think we're best friends. I mean, I want to be around my husband, and I think he wants to be around me, but we enjoy spending time together. We we debate, but I would also say He's my rock. He's also the person every now and then holds up the mirror to me and says, Mary, come on. So I mean, after 40 years, we grew up together, we got married right out of college. But I think there's so many dimensions of our relationship for which I'm grateful, because there's no bigger supporter in my life than my husband.

David Novak 46:56

What do you see now as you look forward as your unfinished business? Well,

Mary Barra 47:00

I think, you know, we're still in the middle of this transformation of not only propulsion system, but software and autonomy. And you know, the work will there, will always be innovating and continuing. So I can't say when the work is done, but I want to make sure we're on this kind of irreversible path for existing for the next 100 years, and then also making sure I'm developing the next gen so they're going to do even more amazing things. That's my hope.

David Novak 47:26

And last question for you, but what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

Mary Barra 47:32

Get to know your people, care about them, and give them feedback. Feedback is a gift. A lot of times, what I've seen, you know, you get somebody who thinks they're doing a great job they haven't been given feedback to know how they could have been better. If you don't give someone feedback, how do they know what you know what you think they're missing? So care about your people. Give them feedback so they can be their very best. Well,

David Novak 47:53

Mary, I can only imagine what's been going on in your day, and the fact that you took an hour out with me, I can't thank you enough. I appreciate it. You know you are the real deal. You're a real leader. You know you have every characteristic that it takes to get people to be inspired by you and the confidence that you bring to the party. So thank you so much for taking time to be with me. Well,

Mary Barra 48:14

I knew I was going to enjoy this conversation, and the hour flew by. So, David, thank you so very, very much for what you're doing and giving back for everybody who can can listen to your your podcast, which I think is phenomenal. Thank you.

David Novak 48:32

One thing that really stands out to me about Mary is how she leads with such curiosity and candor she's not afraid of the hard truths. Heck, she goes looking for him. She's hunting them down. When you invite truth into the room and when you reward your people for bringing it, you create more alignment, you build more trust, and ultimately, you always get better outcomes. Great Leaders seek the whole truth even when it's uncomfortable or inconvenient. That's how you avoid the bad decisions that happen when wishful thinking or turf wars take over. So with that in mind, here's something to try this week in your next meeting or decision, ask this simple question, are we looking at the full picture? Are we seeking the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth. Encourage your team to bring that intellectual honesty to the table even when it isn't convenient, because Mary's absolutely right when she says the truth, the truth will set you free. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders seek the truth. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Dave Mackay, President and CEO of RBC. That's the Royal Bank of Canada.

Dave McKay 49:50

I see leaders who want to keep take a risk, but keep it quiet. I don't want anyone to see and if I'm successful, I'll tell you about it the other day, but then it's hard to marshal resources. Excitement and organization if you don't declare yourself, so

David Novak 50:03

be sure to subscribe to YouTube or wherever you go to get your podcast so you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business, so that you'll become the best leader that you can be.

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