[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3004/never-assume-youve-seen-it-all-before","id",3004,"title","Never assume you’ve seen it all before","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.360\nWhen you look at all these places where you've gone, you've turned around\n\n2\n00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:04.000\nbusinesses,\n\n3\n00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:08.720\ndo you have a playbook for getting that done?\n\n4\n00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:17.680\nActually, no. Not really. One of my 32 essentials says, \"Never assume you've\n\n5\n00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:18.960\nseen it all before.\"\n\n6\n00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:25.840\nThat's a one-liner. Okay. And I think after that on the same line, I say, this\n\n7\n00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:26.880\nis one of the\n\n8\n00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:32.600\nbiggest contributors to leadership failure. You have to go in assuming there'll\n\n9\n00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:34.000\nbe surprises.\n\n10\n00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.600\nIn my case, of course, I was learning in many cases new industries.\n\n11\n00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.030\nCertain things were the same. You knew you were going to have to change the\n\n12\n00:00:40.030 --> 00:00:40.720\nculture\n\n13\n00:00:40.720 --> 00:00:45.420\nto what? No, we're unsure from the outside, but you knew that the culture was\n\n14\n00:00:45.420 --> 00:00:45.840\nbankrupt\n\n15\n00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:50.080\nin these turnarounds. And you needed to have that. You knew there'd be some\n\n16\n00:00:50.080 --> 00:00:51.680\nother obvious challenges.\n\n17\n00:00:51.680 --> 00:00:55.500\nMaybe some people just can't make the trip with you. They don't believe in what\n\n18\n00:00:55.500 --> 00:00:56.240\nyou're doing.\n\n19\n00:00:56.800 --> 00:01:02.150\nOr what have you. There'll have to be some changes and so on. But generally, I\n\n20\n00:01:02.150 --> 00:01:05.360\nsay, keep an open mind.\n\n21\n00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:10.400\nIt will be surprising. Never assume. We all have these prejudices that we build\n\n22\n00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:10.560\nup\n\n23\n00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:17.840\nbased on success elsewhere. And they may work in this new situation. They may\n\n24\n00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:18.800\nbe wrong.\n\n25\n00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:22.480\nI tried to stay very, very open-minded.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1510609,"end_time",1593369,"keywords","open-mindedness, turnaround, failure, assumptions, adaptability, surprise, bias","slug","never-assume-youve-seen-it-all-before","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","rqtHjnpZ02ZOnPaGm8bs3B0100K3d1mcoRWmB8H00Ci1h2U","mux_asset_id","EGf6jngYV29XUfnbu01RTjFnGUGMEcOq2be8902Ig023DQ","leader_id",239,"episode_id",391,"updated_at","2025-08-07T17:07:29.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3004/never-assume-youve-seen-it-all-before","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_25":108,"_109":110,"_61":111,"_58":111,"_112":113,"_68":114,"_39":115,"_116":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_44":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_46":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":89,"_90":-5,"_46":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Embrace the unfamiliar","embrace-the-unfamiliar","Listen to this leadership podcast with Peter Cuneo, former Marvel CEO, and see the incredible turnaround story behind this iconic brand.","summary","

Every leader faces the unknown. The best ones lean into it.

When Peter Cuneo became CEO of Marvel, the company had just emerged from bankruptcy. But under his leadership, it became one of the most valuable entertainment brands in the world. By the time it was sold to Disney, Marvel’s stock had risen from just 96 cents to over $50 a share.

In this episode, Peter shares the bold, practical leadership moves behind that remarkable turnaround—and how embracing the unfamiliar helped him spark innovation, make big bets, and unlock his team’s full potential.

You’ll also learn:

Why your “outsider” status is a secret weapon
What to protect at all costs if you want a creative culture
The strategic thinking behind hiring Robert Downey, Jr. as Ironman
The two culture shifts every turnaround needs

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.520\nNever assume you've seen it all before. This is one of the biggest contributors\n\n2\n00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:06.080\nto leadership\n\n3\n00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:10.620\nfailure. You have to go in assuming there'll be surprises. We all have these\n\n4\n00:00:10.620 --> 00:00:11.440\nprejudices that we\n\n5\n00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:17.920\nbuild up based on success elsewhere. And they may work in this new situation.\n\n6\n00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.680\nThey may be more\n\n7\n00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:24.160\non. Welcome to How Leaders Lead. I'm David Novak. And every week I have\n\n8\n00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:25.680\nconversations with the very\n\n9\n00:00:25.680 --> 00:00:29.810\nbest leaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be. Today\n\n10\n00:00:29.810 --> 00:00:30.640\nI'm talking with\n\n11\n00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.650\nPeter Kunio, the former CEO and vice chairman of Marvel Entertainment and the\n\n12\n00:00:34.650 --> 00:00:35.520\nman behind one of\n\n13\n00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:40.710\nthe most remarkable turnarounds in recent years. When Peter stepped in as CEO,\n\n14\n00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:41.520\nMarvel had just come\n\n15\n00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:45.470\nout of bankruptcy. But under his leadership, it became one of the most valuable\n\n16\n00:00:45.470 --> 00:00:46.320\nentertainment\n\n17\n00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.550\nbrands in the world. By the time it was sold to Disney, Marvel's stock had\n\n18\n00:00:50.550 --> 00:00:52.240\nrisen from 96 cents\n\n19\n00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:57.630\na share to over $50. In this conversation, you're going to see the leadership\n\n20\n00:00:57.630 --> 00:00:59.040\nprinciples that drove\n\n21\n00:00:59.040 --> 00:01:04.130\nthose results. And let me tell you, a big reason is Peter's ability to embrace\n\n22\n00:01:04.130 --> 00:01:05.760\nthe unknown. See,\n\n23\n00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:10.750\nfor most people, uncertainty breeds fear. But for Peter, unfamiliar territory\n\n24\n00:01:10.750 --> 00:01:11.840\nis an opportunity\n\n25\n00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:16.780\nto innovate, to grow, and to find out what you and your team are really capable\n\n26\n00:01:16.780 --> 00:01:18.000\nof. Great leaders\n\n27\n00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:23.210\ndevelop that ability to embrace uncertain situations. And today, you'll see\n\n28\n00:01:23.210 --> 00:01:24.480\nexactly what it looks like\n\n29\n00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:29.480\nin action. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours,\n\n30\n00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:30.160\nPeter Kunio.\n\n31\n00:01:30.160 --> 00:01:41.360\nI got to tell you, I'm happy to have you here. And one of the things that I got\n\n32\n00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:42.480\nto ask you is that\n\n33\n00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:46.520\nwhat's something that you learned about real leadership by being around\n\n34\n00:01:46.520 --> 00:01:48.000\nfictional, iconic\n\n35\n00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:55.120\nsuperheroes at Marvel every day? Well, the nice thing about 4,700 characters\n\n36\n00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:56.640\nthat you own and control\n\n37\n00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:02.320\nmakes life in some ways much easier than if they are alive.\n\n38\n00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:10.160\nWe were effectively their agents, except our fee was 100% of what they earned.\n\n39\n00:02:10.880 --> 00:02:18.400\nAnd they never talked back. So we never had to debate with them on how we're\n\n40\n00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:19.360\ndoing their movies\n\n41\n00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:25.200\nor comic books or whatever. Yeah, it's one of the things I learned is if you're\n\n42\n00:02:25.200 --> 00:02:26.400\ninto the IP business,\n\n43\n00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:31.710\nyou want to own and control all your IP. Yeah, I can see that. And you know\n\n44\n00:02:31.710 --> 00:02:32.480\nwhat I think about\n\n45\n00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:38.080\nbeing the CEO of Marvel, that's such a cool business to be in. And I don't even\n\n46\n00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:38.560\npeople even\n\n47\n00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.120\nthink about it as a business. But how did you go about just attacking the\n\n48\n00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.160\nbusiness opportunity?\n\n49\n00:02:44.160 --> 00:02:47.820\nBecause I know when you went in there, a lot had to be done. You had to turn it\n\n50\n00:02:47.820 --> 00:02:48.480\naround.\n\n51\n00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:53.920\nWell, Marvel had just emerged from bankruptcy when I came as CEO. It had been\n\n52\n00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:54.800\nin bankruptcy for\n\n53\n00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.060\nabout two years. And I always tell people that the process of going through\n\n54\n00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:01.120\nbankruptcy is\n\n55\n00:03:01.920 --> 00:03:09.290\nyou can relate to chemotherapy. You emerge from your treatment. You are\n\n56\n00:03:09.290 --> 00:03:10.240\nhopefully cured,\n\n57\n00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:16.200\nor certainly in remission. But you've lost all your hair and you are very weak.\n\n58\n00:03:16.200 --> 00:03:17.760\nAnd what happens\n\n59\n00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:24.000\nfor any company in bankruptcy is akin to that, in that you are very weak. The\n\n60\n00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:24.960\nfinancial\n\n61\n00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:32.790\nway you are organized coming out of bankruptcy is not the best way for the\n\n62\n00:03:32.790 --> 00:03:34.480\nbusiness. It's only what\n\n63\n00:03:34.480 --> 00:03:39.920\nthe creditors would agree to. And there very often is a mismatch completely.\n\n64\n00:03:39.920 --> 00:03:41.760\nAnd in Marvel's case,\n\n65\n00:03:41.760 --> 00:03:46.880\nwhen we came out of bankruptcy, we had that mismatch. It was what the creditors\n\n66\n00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:48.080\nwould buy into,\n\n67\n00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:52.250\nnot what we really needed. So I knew that that would be one of the early\n\n68\n00:03:52.250 --> 00:03:53.680\nchallenges. The other\n\n69\n00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:58.320\nthing is, talk about being weak, lose your hair. Well, a lot of good people had\n\n70\n00:03:58.320 --> 00:03:59.120\nleft Marvel\n\n71\n00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:04.160\nbecause they could. And because there was a lot of uncertainty about the future\n\n72\n00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:04.160\n,\n\n73\n00:04:04.160 --> 00:04:09.680\nthe bankruptcy lasted quite a long time. And so on. So part of the challenge\n\n74\n00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:10.480\nwhen I came was\n\n75\n00:04:10.480 --> 00:04:17.680\nfinding new people. And in some cases, re-energizing and attracting good people\n\n76\n00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:19.600\nthat left the company\n\n77\n00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.360\nto believe in our future and to come back to the company, not easy.\n\n78\n00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:28.400\nWhen you took the job at Marvel, as I understand it, you'd never made a comic,\n\n79\n00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:29.200\nyou'd never made a\n\n80\n00:04:29.200 --> 00:04:35.350\nmovie. What was that, uh-oh moment maybe you had when you realized just how\n\n81\n00:04:35.350 --> 00:04:37.600\nmuch you didn't know.\n\n82\n00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:42.160\nI mean, was that something that concerned you? Or how did you go about learning\n\n83\n00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:42.880\na business that\n\n84\n00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:46.480\nyou weren't familiar with? You'd done a lot of hard goods, a lot of different\n\n85\n00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:46.960\nproducts,\n\n86\n00:04:46.960 --> 00:04:50.320\ndifferent, you know, turnaround. So this is a whole new game.\n\n87\n00:04:50.320 --> 00:04:55.600\nYeah. Well, my seven turnarounds five were new industries, completely different\n\n88\n00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:01.600\nfrom anything that I had done before. So I was very used to going into\n\n89\n00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.720\nenvironments where maybe\n\n90\n00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:07.390\nI didn't have a background in the particular business. I do think that it's\n\n91\n00:05:07.390 --> 00:05:08.480\nactually going to\n\n92\n00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:14.280\nturn around a positive to have some people come in that are completely learning\n\n93\n00:05:14.280 --> 00:05:15.440\na new business\n\n94\n00:05:15.440 --> 00:05:20.640\nbecause they can see the craziness that may have existed and is the cause for\n\n95\n00:05:20.640 --> 00:05:21.440\nthe company,\n\n96\n00:05:21.440 --> 00:05:26.880\nbeing near bankruptcy or being weak and needing, you know, a lot of change.\n\n97\n00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:34.230\nAnd so for me, it was very clear to me very quickly that we weren't going to\n\n98\n00:05:34.230 --> 00:05:36.240\ncompete the way\n\n99\n00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:41.140\nother people did that made films or comic books. We were going to change the\n\n100\n00:05:41.140 --> 00:05:42.240\nrules of the game\n\n101\n00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:49.440\nand we could see, you know, some of the flaws, the warts of those industries\n\n102\n00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:50.640\nand avoid them.\n\n103\n00:05:50.640 --> 00:05:54.800\nAnd in fact, do things quite differently. And I will tell you that the reason\n\n104\n00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:56.240\nMarvel was successful\n\n105\n00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:03.700\nwas not just that we made very good films and comic books, but our culture was\n\n106\n00:06:03.700 --> 00:06:04.320\ncompletely\n\n107\n00:06:04.320 --> 00:06:08.770\ndifferent from anyone else. The value system that we put in myself and the\n\n108\n00:06:08.770 --> 00:06:10.480\nboard, bit a great board,\n\n109\n00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:15.440\nwas this we're going to take risk when it changed the rules of the game and not\n\n110\n00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:16.000\nlike\n\n111\n00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.160\nthe other people. And needless to say, the rest is history.\n\n112\n00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:26.080\nYou know, a lot of people talk about culture and they get the values and they\n\n113\n00:06:26.080 --> 00:06:29.700\nwrite them up in the wall, they laminate them, they put them up there and you\n\n114\n00:06:29.700 --> 00:06:30.240\nknow,\n\n115\n00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.480\nthat's what you're supposed to stand for. But you know, it's another thing to\n\n116\n00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:35.120\nreally drive it\n\n117\n00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:39.350\ndeep in your company. So let's take this idea of risk being a risk taking\n\n118\n00:06:39.350 --> 00:06:41.760\nculture. You know,\n\n119\n00:06:41.760 --> 00:06:45.280\nhow do you drive that? How do you drive that in your organization? So it wasn't\n\n120\n00:06:45.280 --> 00:06:45.920\njust the\n\n121\n00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:51.760\nboard and the people in the corner office believe it. So David, I kind of say\n\n122\n00:06:51.760 --> 00:06:52.720\nthat I agree with you\n\n123\n00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:58.860\non one thing. Putting something on a plaque and putting it up on the wall does\n\n124\n00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:00.480\nnothing, does nothing\n\n125\n00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:07.360\nfor change. What we need is, is you know, quality leadership to espouse what\n\n126\n00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:08.320\nthe culture will be\n\n127\n00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:15.440\nand for that leadership to back it up with their actions. Talk is very cheap\n\n128\n00:07:15.440 --> 00:07:17.040\nand nobody in the\n\n129\n00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:23.730\norganization is going to believe you until they see your own behavior. And in a\n\n130\n00:07:23.730 --> 00:07:24.800\nturnaround,\n\n131\n00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:29.460\nthere are lots of opportunities to back up what you're saying because you're\n\n132\n00:07:29.460 --> 00:07:30.320\ngoing to need to\n\n133\n00:07:30.320 --> 00:07:36.110\nmake a lot of change. And for me, culture has two facets. One is how we're\n\n134\n00:07:36.110 --> 00:07:37.200\ngoing to treat each\n\n135\n00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:41.740\nother, platinum symbol, how we're going to treat each other in the organization\n\n136\n00:07:41.740 --> 00:07:42.640\nand how we're going\n\n137\n00:07:42.640 --> 00:07:47.900\nto treat our business partners outside the organization. You know, do we\n\n138\n00:07:47.900 --> 00:07:49.840\nrespect our customers? Believe it\n\n139\n00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:54.920\nor not, a lot of the turnarons I went to, didn't respect the customer. I know\n\n140\n00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:56.320\nit sounds wild, but\n\n141\n00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:05.760\nare we going to work closely with our suppliers, you know, to do the best job\n\n142\n00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:06.720\nwe possibly can?\n\n143\n00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:11.920\nWhat about our investors? What about, you know, and so on and so forth. Equally\n\n144\n00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:12.400\nimportant,\n\n145\n00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:18.080\nin every turnaround, part of the that part of the culture was messed up. It was\n\n146\n00:08:18.080 --> 00:08:19.120\ncrazy, actually,\n\n147\n00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:24.540\nin some cases. The second part of culture to me is, all right, what do we have\n\n148\n00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:26.080\nto do as a business\n\n149\n00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:31.260\nto really prosper? What do we need to get an A+ in? We want to be A+ in\n\n150\n00:08:31.260 --> 00:08:33.920\neverything, but the reality is\n\n151\n00:08:33.920 --> 00:08:40.020\nwe're not because no one is ever A+ in every trade. But what are the ones that\n\n152\n00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:40.800\nwe really want\n\n153\n00:08:40.800 --> 00:08:49.060\nto have to be A+? Is it new products? The way we treat customers is it our\n\n154\n00:08:49.060 --> 00:08:50.480\nadvertising that\n\n155\n00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:56.570\nprojects a company that customers will value, not just for the products or the\n\n156\n00:08:56.570 --> 00:08:57.600\nservices, but\n\n157\n00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:04.160\nfor what we believe in. You know, it's all those things. And amazingly, a lot\n\n158\n00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:05.040\nof these businesses,\n\n159\n00:09:05.040 --> 00:09:10.640\nwhat they had to be really good in, they were just the opposite. And didn't\n\n160\n00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:11.920\nrealize that they\n\n161\n00:09:11.920 --> 00:09:17.280\nhad to be good, which is, again, it's hard to believe. But, you know, Peter,\n\n162\n00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:18.080\none of the things that\n\n163\n00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:25.280\nyou obviously mentioned earlier was the fact that you wanted to change the game\n\n164\n00:09:25.280 --> 00:09:26.000\n. You changed the\n\n165\n00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:30.930\ngame in the industry. You know, looking back, you know, what was the biggest\n\n166\n00:09:30.930 --> 00:09:32.400\nthing you changed in\n\n167\n00:09:32.400 --> 00:09:37.400\nin the industry? And how difficult was it for you to take people with you to\n\n168\n00:09:37.400 --> 00:09:38.560\nget that done?\n\n169\n00:09:38.560 --> 00:09:44.160\nWell, let me say first of all, I'll get into that. But first of all, I was not\n\n170\n00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:46.480\narrogant enough\n\n171\n00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:51.290\nto think that I could walk through the door, read a script on a movie, make\n\n172\n00:09:51.290 --> 00:09:52.720\nchanges, and what have\n\n173\n00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:58.310\nyou. Okay. Weak leaders would have done that. They would assume as the leader,\n\n174\n00:09:58.310 --> 00:09:59.600\nthey would have to be\n\n175\n00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:04.900\nall knowing and whatever. And I've never bought into that. And everyone knew\n\n176\n00:10:04.900 --> 00:10:06.320\nthat I had no background\n\n177\n00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:11.520\nand things. So my role for the first six months was to ask a lot of questions\n\n178\n00:10:13.040 --> 00:10:17.890\nof a lot of people. And I was in learning mode. In the case of film, I can't\n\n179\n00:10:17.890 --> 00:10:20.000\ntake credit for\n\n180\n00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.740\nMarvel getting into the film business because the first film in the new era of\n\n181\n00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:27.360\nMarvel was X-Men 1.\n\n182\n00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:32.240\nAnd it was already being filmed when I joined the company. And I actually went\n\n183\n00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:33.920\nto set in Toronto\n\n184\n00:10:33.920 --> 00:10:40.080\nmy second week or something on the job just to visit. And so the idea of Marvel\n\n185\n00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:40.720\ngetting into\n\n186\n00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:46.690\nmovies and building franchises was not mine. I will take credit for staying out\n\n187\n00:10:46.690 --> 00:10:47.440\nof the way.\n\n188\n00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:54.980\nI'm not mucking up the creatives both in comics and in movies, making sure as\n\n189\n00:10:54.980 --> 00:10:55.600\nbest I could\n\n190\n00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:59.920\nthat we had the right people. Although I'm again, how much judgment could I\n\n191\n00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:00.800\nbring to the table?\n\n192\n00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:07.410\nBut I did know that they already had part of this new culture, this change the\n\n193\n00:11:07.410 --> 00:11:08.240\nrules of the game.\n\n194\n00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:13.980\nAnd if you get into some of the things we did casting for the movies, the\n\n195\n00:11:13.980 --> 00:11:15.520\nHollywood system\n\n196\n00:11:15.520 --> 00:11:21.320\nwould want you to find some big actor or actress that gets a lot of money up\n\n197\n00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:21.440\nfront\n\n198\n00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:26.980\nand a big back end and would quote, \"make your film.\" I always love that phrase\n\n199\n00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:28.480\n. If you have so and so\n\n200\n00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.740\nin the lead role in your film, you've made automatically you're going to make\n\n201\n00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:34.080\nmoney.\n\n202\n00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:40.340\nAnd we resisted that completely. We just wanted good actors and actresses. They\n\n203\n00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:40.560\nwould be\n\n204\n00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:46.930\nbehind a mask a lot of the time. And the heroes we're going to make, our\n\n205\n00:11:46.930 --> 00:11:47.920\ncharacters were going\n\n206\n00:11:47.920 --> 00:11:52.900\nto be the stars that make the movies. So a lot of back and forth and unh\n\n207\n00:11:52.900 --> 00:11:53.920\nappiness in\n\n208\n00:11:53.920 --> 00:12:00.590\nHollywood with Marvel because of that basic change. And we cast unknowns in a\n\n209\n00:12:00.590 --> 00:12:01.920\nlot of the\n\n210\n00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:07.360\nfilms. We also took chances on certain people. I mean, Robert Downey Jr. Mug\n\n211\n00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.600\nshot was all over\n\n212\n00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:15.630\nthe news three months before we cast him as Tony Stark. In Marvel's own, we\n\n213\n00:12:15.630 --> 00:12:16.960\nformed our own studio\n\n214\n00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:22.290\neventually. This was the first film where we weren't partnering with a big\n\n215\n00:12:22.290 --> 00:12:24.800\nstudio. And it had to be a\n\n216\n00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:30.920\nhit. We'd raised a lot of money. And the company took a chance and arrested\n\n217\n00:12:30.920 --> 00:12:32.160\nagain this history.\n\n218\n00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:39.520\nHe's got himself together. He's been tremendous in that role. Still is today.\n\n219\n00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:46.720\nDo you know that I was the only one who believed in you? Everyone else said I\n\n220\n00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:47.920\nwas crazy to recruit\n\n221\n00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:52.800\na 14-year-old kid. I just wanted to be like him. And I wanted you to be better.\n\n222\n00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:59.870\nAnd who won just won the award for Best Supporting Actress? Actor, excuse me. I\n\n223\n00:12:59.870 --> 00:13:00.320\nmean,\n\n224\n00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:06.480\nit's Robert Downey Jr. So we were willing to take risks. He was toxic at the\n\n225\n00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.160\ntime. No one would\n\n226\n00:13:08.160 --> 00:13:14.270\nhire him when we did. So we were out there and we were doing things differently\n\n227\n00:13:14.270 --> 00:13:16.000\nand what have you.\n\n228\n00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:23.120\nIn comic books, one of the big issues that I had when I came in was that trying\n\n229\n00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:23.680\nto learn the\n\n230\n00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:27.760\ncharacters in the comic books, I had to start it like I don't remember the\n\n231\n00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:29.040\nexact number, but let's\n\n232\n00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:36.640\nsay Spider-Man 456. You know, what happened in the previous 455 comic books.\n\n233\n00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:39.040\nAnd the origin stories\n\n234\n00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:46.400\nare very important to superheroes. And this is something that attracts fans.\n\n235\n00:13:46.400 --> 00:13:49.520\nAnd so we actually\n\n236\n00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:54.920\nstarted doing comic books, still maintaining the ones in place, but now re\n\n237\n00:13:54.920 --> 00:13:57.760\ntelling the story of\n\n238\n00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:05.020\nthe characters from day one, from their origin, from what had been basically,\n\n239\n00:14:05.020 --> 00:14:06.080\nyou know, comic\n\n240\n00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:12.290\nbook number one. We made very few changes. Spider-Man was bitten by a\n\n241\n00:14:12.290 --> 00:14:13.520\nradioactive\n\n242\n00:14:13.520 --> 00:14:18.820\nPeter Parker, becomes Spider-Man, by being bitten by a radioactive spider\n\n243\n00:14:18.820 --> 00:14:22.720\noriginally in 1961 or\n\n244\n00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.250\ntwo. When we started this, this over, which was around 2000, he was bitten by a\n\n245\n00:14:28.250 --> 00:14:30.320\ngenetically altered\n\n246\n00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:37.360\nspider. And in 2000, he had a cell phone, he didn't have a cell phone in 61,\n\n247\n00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.320\nbut you know,\n\n248\n00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:45.250\nthese are not big changes in the origin stories and so on. So again, constantly\n\n249\n00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:46.640\nlooking for\n\n250\n00:14:46.640 --> 00:14:56.960\nnew ways to attract fans. Now, as you drove that need to look for new ways,\n\n251\n00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:02.730\nhow did you, was it challenging to get your people to think differently? And\n\n252\n00:15:02.730 --> 00:15:03.040\nhow did you\n\n253\n00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:07.330\ndeal with that? Or did you have to? They just automatically abrasives that, hey\n\n254\n00:15:07.330 --> 00:15:07.840\n, Peter, you're\n\n255\n00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:12.090\nright on the money, we're all in. It's interesting in creative businesses, as\n\n256\n00:15:12.090 --> 00:15:14.640\nopposed to non-more\n\n257\n00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:20.960\ncall it fixed asset businesses, okay, in creative businesses, you're dependent\n\n258\n00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:22.480\non the creativity of\n\n259\n00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.240\nthe human beings, what's in their minds. And one of the things I had learned in\n\n260\n00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:29.200\nother businesses\n\n261\n00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:35.190\nthat had creative elements advertising, for example, you know, you wanted to\n\n262\n00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:36.320\ncreate a culture\n\n263\n00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.260\nwhere every idea is worth talking about. There are no stupid ideas. This is the\n\n264\n00:15:42.260 --> 00:15:43.440\nway you get to sift\n\n265\n00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.720\nthrough, you know, when people feel comfortable throwing out what may be viewed\n\n266\n00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.240\nas completely nuts.\n\n267\n00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:55.950\nBut remember, we were changing the rules of the game. So we were, I was, but\n\n268\n00:15:55.950 --> 00:15:57.360\nthe whole organization,\n\n269\n00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:03.040\nthe board was interested in new ideas, new approaches. Once the organization\n\n270\n00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:04.560\nsees, no one says,\n\n271\n00:16:04.560 --> 00:16:09.310\nyou're an idiot, what are you talking about or, you know, it brushes you off in\n\n272\n00:16:09.310 --> 00:16:10.240\na meeting or\n\n273\n00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:15.810\nwhatever, but want to talk through every idea that's changing the culture and\n\n274\n00:16:15.810 --> 00:16:16.720\nit gets around\n\n275\n00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:22.720\nand it's infectious. It also gets outside the company and allows you to hire\n\n276\n00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:23.040\nback\n\n277\n00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:28.320\nsome people or hire new people that you wouldn't have gotten unless they\n\n278\n00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.240\nunderstood that the culture\n\n279\n00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.590\nreally unchanged. Hey everyone, it's Kula from How Leaders Lead. And a couple\n\n280\n00:16:34.590 --> 00:16:35.120\nyears ago,\n\n281\n00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:39.360\nwe did a survey of all of you podcast listeners and in it, you told us that you\n\n282\n00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.000\nwould like more\n\n283\n00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.650\nof David's point of view on some of the topics that he talks about with the\n\n284\n00:16:43.650 --> 00:16:45.440\nguests that he interviews.\n\n285\n00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:49.680\nAnd in case you didn't know, we have an episode that does just that. Every\n\n286\n00:16:49.680 --> 00:16:50.720\nMonday, we release an\n\n287\n00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:54.970\nepisode called Three More Questions with David Novak where I put David in the\n\n288\n00:16:54.970 --> 00:16:56.160\nhot seat and get his\n\n289\n00:16:56.160 --> 00:17:00.080\npoint of view and his take on some of the concepts that he talks about with the\n\n290\n00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:00.960\nguests that he\n\n291\n00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:05.010\ninterviews. It's a great way to get learnings from David and to hear about his\n\n292\n00:17:05.010 --> 00:17:05.600\nexperience,\n\n293\n00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:11.100\nleading young brands, a company of over 1.5 million employees. So if you haven\n\n294\n00:17:11.100 --> 00:17:11.840\n't subscribed to the\n\n295\n00:17:11.840 --> 00:17:15.360\nHow Leaders Lead feed, wherever you get your podcast, do that now so that you\n\n296\n00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:16.400\nnever miss an episode of\n\n297\n00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:20.350\nThree More Questions and so that you can get coaching from David himself. You\n\n298\n00:17:20.350 --> 00:17:21.600\nknow, one of the\n\n299\n00:17:21.600 --> 00:17:25.200\nthings you also mentioned about the import, you know, it's key to a powerful\n\n300\n00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:26.000\nculture is just the\n\n301\n00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.590\ncustomer focus that you have. And you know, one thing about Marvel movies, I'm\n\n302\n00:17:30.590 --> 00:17:31.360\nsure is that,\n\n303\n00:17:31.360 --> 00:17:36.900\nyou know, your customers are rabid fans. How did you tap into the loyalty of\n\n304\n00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:38.320\nyour customer base\n\n305\n00:17:38.320 --> 00:17:42.120\nand leverage that as you, you know, continue to do movie after movie after\n\n306\n00:17:42.120 --> 00:17:43.440\nmovie? Because I can tell\n\n307\n00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:48.550\nyou, you know, seems like this has got to be one of the most, you know, once\n\n308\n00:17:48.550 --> 00:17:50.480\nyou once you get a user,\n\n309\n00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.130\nyou got a user for a while if you treat them well. You're totally right. A\n\n310\n00:17:55.130 --> 00:17:56.960\nlittle bit of history on\n\n311\n00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:03.200\ncomic books, one of the assets or one of the advantages, I thought that I had\n\n312\n00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.200\nat Marvel\n\n313\n00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:10.630\nversus other other companies was that our Marvel characters are very different\n\n314\n00:18:10.630 --> 00:18:11.280\nfor most other\n\n315\n00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:20.480\ncompetitors. The brilliance of Stan Lee from 1961 to 1965, he and some great\n\n316\n00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:22.000\neditors created all\n\n317\n00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:28.140\nthese characters that you now think of as the A list of Marvel. And what made\n\n318\n00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:29.200\nthem different?\n\n319\n00:18:29.840 --> 00:18:37.600\nThey created characters who were flawed, who human beings could identify with,\n\n320\n00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:44.670\nwho had the same problems you and I do and all the fans did. Okay. And this was\n\n321\n00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:45.440\nthe brilliance of\n\n322\n00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:51.050\nwhat they did. And so yes, they had superpowers. Okay. But a lot of times they\n\n323\n00:18:51.050 --> 00:18:52.480\ncouldn't handle the\n\n324\n00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:57.070\nsuperpowers. People were afraid of them because they didn't understand the US\n\n325\n00:18:57.070 --> 00:18:58.640\ngovernment passed laws\n\n326\n00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:04.080\nagainst the X-Men because they were mutants that these powers and they couldn't\n\n327\n00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:04.960\nunderstand them.\n\n328\n00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:11.210\nBy the way, do we not have that problem today in the world? I mean, it's worse\n\n329\n00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:12.880\nthan ever actually.\n\n330\n00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.040\nAnd every high school student thought of themselves as a mutant. Will people\n\n331\n00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:18.960\nlike me? Will I be popular?\n\n332\n00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.520\nYou know, will I, you know, will a girl, you know, sitting across from me like\n\n333\n00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:27.040\nme if I ask her for a date,\n\n334\n00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.840\nyou know, how do I balance my study? You know, all of these things,\n\n335\n00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:39.120\nminority groups always loved the X-Men because they're mutants. Peter Parker\n\n336\n00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:40.000\ncan't get a date\n\n337\n00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:45.580\nwith Mary Jane in high school who he loves because he's a Nevish. He's a nerd.\n\n338\n00:19:45.580 --> 00:19:47.120\nHe can't handle his\n\n339\n00:19:47.120 --> 00:19:53.760\npowers. He gets his uncle killed because he got, you know, basically two-hour\n\n340\n00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:54.560\ngift about his power,\n\n341\n00:19:54.560 --> 00:20:00.800\nhis powers. So that was the greatness of Marvel characters. So when we started\n\n342\n00:20:00.800 --> 00:20:01.680\nmaking movies,\n\n343\n00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:08.120\nwe had a simple concept, really. It was a big action scene to start in the\n\n344\n00:20:08.120 --> 00:20:08.960\nmiddle of\n\n345\n00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.190\na modest action scene and then a big action scene at the end. Everything else\n\n346\n00:20:13.190 --> 00:20:14.720\nin the movies was\n\n347\n00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:19.260\ncharacter development. The viewer was learning about the character, was\n\n348\n00:20:19.260 --> 00:20:20.560\nlearning their origin\n\n349\n00:20:20.560 --> 00:20:25.530\nstory, was seeing that they had their own challenges and problems just like\n\n350\n00:20:25.530 --> 00:20:26.160\nthey did.\n\n351\n00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:34.090\nAnd it was very powerful. The first film we did was X-Men 1 and on Friday night\n\n352\n00:20:34.090 --> 00:20:34.720\n, when it was\n\n353\n00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:41.370\npremiering in the US, the lines were around the block. Now, not all those\n\n354\n00:20:41.370 --> 00:20:43.120\npeople on those lines were\n\n355\n00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:51.010\ncomic book fans. Most of them look 5 or 10% of the US are comic book fans. That\n\n356\n00:20:51.010 --> 00:20:51.200\n's it.\n\n357\n00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:59.280\nBut the power of the comic book people in popular culture was much bigger than\n\n358\n00:20:59.280 --> 00:21:00.320\nthe number of people\n\n359\n00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:07.470\nin the industry. And so once you see the newspaper, this movie called X-Men\n\n360\n00:21:07.470 --> 00:21:09.760\njust premiered and\n\n361\n00:21:09.760 --> 00:21:15.820\nit's breaking box office records, I got to go see it. Knowing nothing, most\n\n362\n00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:16.640\npeople walking through\n\n363\n00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:23.570\nthat into the theater at No idea X-Men was the most popular comic book in the\n\n364\n00:21:23.570 --> 00:21:24.560\nworld at the time.\n\n365\n00:21:24.560 --> 00:21:31.040\nSpeaking of stories, one of the questions I always ask people is when you think\n\n366\n00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:32.400\nback about your\n\n367\n00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:39.380\nupbringing, what's a story from your childhood that really impacted the kind of\n\n368\n00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:40.240\nleader you are today?\n\n369\n00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:46.080\nWell, I certainly didn't think of it as leadership at the time, but I have\n\n370\n00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:47.920\nsomething on my website\n\n371\n00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.470\ncalled the 32 Essentials of Superhero Leadership. And the background is that\n\n372\n00:21:52.470 --> 00:21:53.600\nabout 20 years ago,\n\n373\n00:21:53.600 --> 00:21:59.700\nI was asked to give a speech on leadership to a big group. And truth be told, I\n\n374\n00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:00.880\nhad thought very\n\n375\n00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:05.880\nlittle, surprisingly to me now looking back about my own leadership, what I'd\n\n376\n00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:06.960\nlearned. It was all\n\n377\n00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:13.590\nan adventure. I had this adventure of gene. It was all an adventure and I was\n\n378\n00:22:13.590 --> 00:22:14.880\nmore of a risk taker\n\n379\n00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:19.570\nthan most human beings for whatever reason. I'm not sure. Probably the way I\n\n380\n00:22:19.570 --> 00:22:20.480\nwas raised.\n\n381\n00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:25.570\nWhen I was very young, my father, who was a Navy officer, had been a World War\n\n382\n00:22:25.570 --> 00:22:26.320\nII in the South\n\n383\n00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:35.040\nPacific, was a reserve officer. And when the Korean War started, I, he was\n\n384\n00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:35.520\ncalled up.\n\n385\n00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:41.120\nAnd so in a two year period, we went from living in New York City to Pensacola,\n\n386\n00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:41.680\nFlorida,\n\n387\n00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:46.760\nto Bremerton, Washington, to a mothball fleet, which is Bremerton is near\n\n388\n00:22:46.760 --> 00:22:47.200\nSeattle,\n\n389\n00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:53.920\nthen down to San Diego, big Navy base, and then to Philadelphia, my father,\n\n390\n00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:58.720\nthe disaward of Philadelphia Naval Shipyard over a two year period. So I did\n\n391\n00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:59.920\nthe fourth and fifth\n\n392\n00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:07.500\ngrades on the road, so to speak. And I saw, even as a young person, that there\n\n393\n00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:08.960\nwere even cultural\n\n394\n00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:15.180\ndifferences in the United States. I didn't really think about it. It wasn't\n\n395\n00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:17.200\nconscious. It was just,\n\n396\n00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.300\nI had to make friends in four different places. And then we went back to New\n\n397\n00:23:21.300 --> 00:23:22.720\nYork City after he was,\n\n398\n00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:31.920\nthe war was over. So I often cite the fact that very effective leaders are very\n\n399\n00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.880\ncomfortable\n\n400\n00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:38.170\nbeing either making a decision to go into an alien environment, or being thrown\n\n401\n00:23:38.170 --> 00:23:39.040\ninto an alien\n\n402\n00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:43.170\nenvironment. We all have our cocoon, right David? We're comfortable in our coc\n\n403\n00:23:43.170 --> 00:23:44.560\noon. We like ourselves\n\n404\n00:23:44.560 --> 00:23:50.450\nusually in the cocoon, and something happens to break us out. Maybe we, it's a\n\n405\n00:23:50.450 --> 00:23:51.120\njob decision,\n\n406\n00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:54.640\nwe're going to a completely different city or country for a job. That's\n\n407\n00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:56.000\nsomething we did ourselves.\n\n408\n00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:01.870\nMaybe it's unfortunately a health thing comes in. It's not a good thing. But\n\n409\n00:24:01.870 --> 00:24:02.560\ngenerally, when I'm\n\n410\n00:24:02.560 --> 00:24:07.480\ntalking about alien environments here, I'm talking about different, not bad,\n\n411\n00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:08.640\nbut different.\n\n412\n00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.660\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Peter Kuneo in just a\n\n413\n00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:13.360\nmoment.\n\n414\n00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:18.030\nAs you can tell, Peter is a guy who isn't afraid of a new challenge. And his\n\n415\n00:24:18.030 --> 00:24:18.560\nmentality\n\n416\n00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:23.440\nreminds me of an insight Jenny Rometty shared with me. As the CEO of IBM, she\n\n417\n00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:24.480\nregularly found ways\n\n418\n00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:29.540\nto get out of her comfort zone so that she could learn. You will only grow when\n\n419\n00:24:29.540 --> 00:24:30.960\nyou're uncomfortable.\n\n420\n00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:35.840\nAnd I've talked to so many people around the world that resonate with that. And\n\n421\n00:24:35.840 --> 00:24:37.520\nI try to say to them,\n\n422\n00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:41.080\nI actually got to the point where I love to feel uncomfortable, because then I\n\n423\n00:24:41.080 --> 00:24:41.360\n'm like,\n\n424\n00:24:41.360 --> 00:24:45.210\nyes, I'm learning, I'm learning. And so I would even look to put myself as a\n\n425\n00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:46.240\nCEO, particularly\n\n426\n00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:50.000\nin those positions, right? I'd be seeing a client that ran a railroad. I got to\n\n427\n00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:50.640\nlearn railroad\n\n428\n00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.250\nbusiness before I get there. And it was like, if you start feeling like you're\n\n429\n00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:54.960\nnot, I would say\n\n430\n00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.970\nto people, if you're feeling so comfortable in a role, you do need to change it\n\n431\n00:24:58.970 --> 00:24:59.840\nbecause you are\n\n432\n00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:05.040\nnot learning. So growth and comfort never co-existing. Go back and listen to my\n\n433\n00:25:05.040 --> 00:25:05.440\nentire\n\n434\n00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:11.560\nconversation with Jenny, episode 66 here on How Leaders Lead. When you look at\n\n435\n00:25:11.560 --> 00:25:12.480\nall these places\n\n436\n00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:18.310\nwhere you've gone, you've turned around businesses, do you have a playbook for\n\n437\n00:25:18.310 --> 00:25:19.360\ngetting that done?\n\n438\n00:25:19.360 --> 00:25:28.320\nActually, no, not really. One of my 32 essentials says, never assume you've\n\n439\n00:25:28.320 --> 00:25:29.600\nseen it all before.\n\n440\n00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:36.480\nThat's a one-liner. Okay. And I think after that on the same line, I say this\n\n441\n00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.520\nis one of the\n\n442\n00:25:37.520 --> 00:25:43.200\nbiggest contributors to leadership failure. You have to go in assuming there'll\n\n443\n00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.640\nbe surprises.\n\n444\n00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.490\nIn my case, of course, I was learning in many cases new industries. Certain\n\n445\n00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:49.200\nthings were the same.\n\n446\n00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.740\nYou knew you were going to have to change the culture to what? No, we're unsure\n\n447\n00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:54.720\nfrom the outside,\n\n448\n00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.920\nbut you knew that the culture was bankrupt in these turnarounds. And you need\n\n449\n00:25:58.920 --> 00:25:59.840\nto have that.\n\n450\n00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:03.980\nYou knew there'll be some other obvious challenges. Maybe some people just can\n\n451\n00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:05.280\n't make the trip with\n\n452\n00:26:05.280 --> 00:26:08.860\nyou. They don't believe in what you're doing or what have you. There'll have to\n\n453\n00:26:08.860 --> 00:26:09.760\nbe some changes.\n\n454\n00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:19.120\nAnd so on. But generally, I say, keep an open mind. It will be surprising. We\n\n455\n00:26:19.120 --> 00:26:19.680\nall have these\n\n456\n00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:25.680\nprejudices that we build up based on success elsewhere. And they may work in\n\n457\n00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:27.200\nthis new situation.\n\n458\n00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:36.640\nThey may be wrong. I tried to stay very, very open-minded. And so on.\n\n459\n00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:41.960\nThat's great. And that open-minded led to the specific playbook for each\n\n460\n00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:42.800\nturnaround.\n\n461\n00:26:42.800 --> 00:26:47.040\nPeter, this has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with what I call\n\n462\n00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:47.920\nmy lightning round\n\n463\n00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:51.400\nof questions. So are you ready for this? Sure. Okay. What three words best\n\n464\n00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:52.560\ndescribe you?\n\n465\n00:26:53.360 --> 00:26:58.900\nVery, very impatient. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who\n\n466\n00:26:58.900 --> 00:26:59.760\nwould it be?\n\n467\n00:26:59.760 --> 00:27:04.310\nAbraham Lincoln. What's your biggest pet peeve? People who say that leaders are\n\n468\n00:27:04.310 --> 00:27:06.160\nborn and not made.\n\n469\n00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:10.160\nWhat's the best city you've ever lived in? Well, I've been blessed a lot of\n\n470\n00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:10.720\ngood places,\n\n471\n00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.490\nbut I'm going to say my hometown, New York City. Who's your favorite Marvel\n\n472\n00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:15.200\ncharacter?\n\n473\n00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:21.120\nWolverine. It's one of the X-Men. Yeah. What's one fact only? A Marvel CEO\n\n474\n00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:21.920\nwould know?\n\n475\n00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:31.420\nOutsiders don't appreciate the role of the non-content-oriented people. The\n\n476\n00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:32.240\npeople in\n\n477\n00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:41.200\nin finance, people in legal. They board some of the big owners. They played a\n\n478\n00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:41.840\nvery, very\n\n479\n00:27:41.840 --> 00:27:47.680\nimportant role in Marvel's success. They just don't get any real press. What's\n\n480\n00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:48.560\nthe one thing you do\n\n481\n00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:53.300\njust for you, Peter? You know, every Saturday morning, I probably watch a silly\n\n482\n00:27:53.300 --> 00:27:55.040\nmovie streaming\n\n483\n00:27:55.040 --> 00:28:01.520\njust to completely detach myself from the real world. Besides your family, what\n\n484\n00:28:01.520 --> 00:28:02.320\n's your most prized\n\n485\n00:28:02.320 --> 00:28:07.030\npossession? Boy, there's nothing close to my family. I have to say my friends,\n\n486\n00:28:07.030 --> 00:28:08.080\nmy good friends.\n\n487\n00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:11.590\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear me\n\n488\n00:28:11.590 --> 00:28:13.600\nlistening to old radio shows\n\n489\n00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:22.400\non Sirius X-M. There's a channel that actually plays old radio shows going back\n\n490\n00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.160\nto the 1930s,\n\n491\n00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:29.840\nand they have all genres from mysteries to police to comedy. What's one of your\n\n492\n00:28:29.840 --> 00:28:30.400\nfavorite\n\n493\n00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:35.530\ndaily rituals? Something that you never miss? My two cups of coffee in the\n\n494\n00:28:35.530 --> 00:28:37.280\nmorning, one caffeine,\n\n495\n00:28:37.280 --> 00:28:42.800\none non decaf. All right, we're out of the lightning round down. I've got a few\n\n496\n00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:43.600\nmore questions. We'll\n\n497\n00:28:43.600 --> 00:28:48.400\nwrap this up. You know, is there anything that you picked up about leading at\n\n498\n00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.320\nwork that you've\n\n499\n00:28:50.320 --> 00:28:56.810\ncarried with you to help you become an even better leader at home? I wish I\n\n500\n00:28:56.810 --> 00:28:57.920\ncould say that.\n\n501\n00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:02.400\nI've mentioned that I'm very impatient. Being impatient for turnarounds is a\n\n502\n00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.280\nvery good thing.\n\n503\n00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:09.460\nBeing impatient at home is not necessarily a good thing as my wife would tell\n\n504\n00:29:09.460 --> 00:29:10.400\nyou. I'm very\n\n505\n00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:15.280\nlucky. I've married for 54 years to an amazing woman who's put up with me, and\n\n506\n00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:16.480\nI mean that literally\n\n507\n00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:24.280\nall these years. Unconditional love. We've traveled and moved a lot chasing\n\n508\n00:29:24.280 --> 00:29:25.920\njobs. I've been\n\n509\n00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.800\nan expat in Ottawa, Canada. We've been in California. We've been in New Jersey.\n\n510\n00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:32.560\nWe've been all over\n\n511\n00:29:32.560 --> 00:29:39.090\nthe place, and she's always hung in there, and I give her 95% of the credit for\n\n512\n00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:39.840\nraising two\n\n513\n00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:46.240\nwonderful boys who've made us proud and married great women from really high\n\n514\n00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:47.200\nquality families,\n\n515\n00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:51.600\nand we have six grandchildren now. While I preach them occasionally on my\n\n516\n00:29:51.600 --> 00:29:54.000\nlearning leadership\n\n517\n00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:59.230\nprinciples, they seem to be doing really well. That's great. As you look\n\n518\n00:29:59.230 --> 00:29:59.920\nforward,\n\n519\n00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:07.230\nwhat do you see as your unfinished business? I'm really very tied in and wound\n\n520\n00:30:07.230 --> 00:30:08.400\nup about leadership\n\n521\n00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:14.510\ntoday as I talked about. The lack of good leadership in the world, maybe it's\n\n522\n00:30:14.510 --> 00:30:15.440\nworse than maybe even\n\n523\n00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:20.830\nin human history, I don't know. Just turn on the TV or the radio every day to\n\n524\n00:30:20.830 --> 00:30:21.840\nsomething new\n\n525\n00:30:21.840 --> 00:30:28.720\nin every country. Young people learning leadership, because in the end, they're\n\n526\n00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:29.600\ngoing to have to save\n\n527\n00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:36.600\nus going down the pike. That's fantastic. Last question here. What's one piece\n\n528\n00:30:36.600 --> 00:30:37.280\nof advice you'd\n\n529\n00:30:37.280 --> 00:30:40.560\ngive to anyone who wants to be a better leader? If you had to just pick one\n\n530\n00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:41.360\nthing, I know you got\n\n531\n00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:47.170\nyour 32, but what would be the number one? Take risks. Reach is even if you\n\n532\n00:30:47.170 --> 00:30:48.640\nthink you can't get there.\n\n533\n00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:53.840\nThe one thing I would say that's very important in my entire life is four or\n\n534\n00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:54.880\nfive times,\n\n535\n00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:00.550\nwhether it was professional or personal. I had people who came into my life at\n\n536\n00:31:00.550 --> 00:31:01.360\ncertain times\n\n537\n00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:06.540\nthat believed in me even more than I believed in myself. I'm not lacking self-\n\n538\n00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:07.360\nconfidence,\n\n539\n00:31:07.360 --> 00:31:13.000\nbut there were certain heights I just didn't think I could reach. They pushed\n\n540\n00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:14.800\nme, encouraged me,\n\n541\n00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:22.300\nand I made the effort just to please them, never thinking I'd get there, and\n\n542\n00:31:22.300 --> 00:31:22.800\nthey all\n\n543\n00:31:22.800 --> 00:31:29.280\nworked out actually. You have very take risks. I want to thank you for coming\n\n544\n00:31:29.280 --> 00:31:30.000\non this show,\n\n545\n00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.710\nand thank you for being a superior leader and being someone that can learn from\n\n546\n00:31:34.710 --> 00:31:35.360\n. Thank you\n\n547\n00:31:35.360 --> 00:31:40.180\nfor taking the time to share what you've learned, because I think that's an\n\n548\n00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:42.160\nobligation that every\n\n549\n00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:45.820\ngreat leader takes on. You've done it, and you're doing it in spades. I wish\n\n550\n00:31:45.820 --> 00:31:47.280\nyou luck with your new\n\n551\n00:31:47.280 --> 00:31:52.240\nbook and your continued success with your podcast. Thank you very much. David,\n\n552\n00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:53.200\nthank you. I enjoyed\n\n553\n00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.720\nit very much. It's always nice to get questions you've never had before.\n\n554\n00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:03.360\n[laughter]\n\n555\n00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:07.840\nYou know, a lot of leaders try to avoid the unfamiliar. They'd rather try out\n\n556\n00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:08.640\nthe same old\n\n557\n00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.560\nplaybook and go over the same old path. But as Peter shows us, great leadership\n\n558\n00:32:14.560 --> 00:32:15.120\nisn't always\n\n559\n00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:18.890\nabout sticking to the familiar. You've got to be willing to navigate the\n\n560\n00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:20.960\nunknown. He jumped right\n\n561\n00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:25.280\ninto an industry he didn't have a background in. He asked questions. He\n\n562\n00:32:25.280 --> 00:32:26.640\nlistened. Then he took\n\n563\n00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:32.270\nsmart risks. He fought for culture, and he brought Marvel back to life. Sure,\n\n564\n00:32:32.270 --> 00:32:33.120\nthe unknown can be\n\n565\n00:32:33.120 --> 00:32:38.020\nscary, but it's also an opportunity. Every time you step into it, you develop\n\n566\n00:32:38.020 --> 00:32:39.200\nnew instincts.\n\n567\n00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.520\nYou find new opportunities. You get a clearer sense of what others are capable\n\n568\n00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:45.040\nof, and what you\n\n569\n00:32:45.040 --> 00:32:49.490\nare capable of. So here's your challenge this week. Where in your life and\n\n570\n00:32:49.490 --> 00:32:50.320\nleadership are you\n\n571\n00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:55.120\ntempted to stick with what's comfortable and familiar? What would it look like\n\n572\n00:32:55.120 --> 00:32:55.840\nif you just\n\n573\n00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:00.520\nstarted to shake things up? So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we\n\n574\n00:33:00.520 --> 00:33:01.600\nlearned today is the\n\n575\n00:33:01.600 --> 00:33:06.190\ngreat leaders embrace the unfamiliar. Coming up next on how leaders lead is\n\n576\n00:33:06.190 --> 00:33:07.040\nDavid Levy,\n\n577\n00:33:07.040 --> 00:33:11.280\nthe co-CEO of Horizon Sports and Experiences, and the former president of\n\n578\n00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:12.320\nTurner Networks.\n\n579\n00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:17.170\nSo be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts so that\n\n580\n00:33:17.170 --> 00:33:17.840\nyou don't miss it.\n\n581\n00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:22.240\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead. Where every\n\n582\n00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:23.040\nThursday you get\n\n583\n00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:27.050\nto listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I'm\n\n584\n00:33:27.050 --> 00:33:27.760\nmaking a point to\n\n585\n00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:32.380\ngive you something simple on each episode so that you can apply that to your\n\n586\n00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:33.680\nbusiness so that you'll\n\n587\n00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:41.280\nbecome the best leader you can be.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL5669394929.mp3","dx_media_id",2396,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2025-08-07","itunes_episode_id",251,"youtube_id","F2RCyBD6qRA","2025-08-07T15:22:52.000000Z","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/wOSdJpcaOat8iGHBxrCMZbSCtwTnVC1EDUb89mO4.mp3","dx_filename","wOSdJpcaOat8iGHBxrCMZbSCtwTnVC1EDUb89mO4.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","AfW3K37EZxwgs9xTZZdd414UHRiKsdW6tdt8khI3rFY","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/2396.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",2015913,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/F2RCyBD6qRA/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_95":79,"_96":77,"_97":-5,"_31":81,"_33":98,"_99":-5,"_100":83,"_86":87,"_101":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","xRZIJPqowQjLgusufmCa4vasZT55DTAfq6JvAXj1rFQ","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Peter","last_name","Cuneo","job_title","Marvel Entertainment, Former CEO and Vice Chairman","Peter Cuneo, CEO, Marvel, entertainment","external_links","https://www.petercuneo.com/about,https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-cuneo,https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781510783843/superhero-leadership/,https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/superhero-leadership-with-peter-cuneo/id1706007621",0,"image_media_id",2378,2379,"2026-07-20T20:45:51.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/KinLg43kCdu4GfVwjutLrYLdjvAkAwvdcvIMiSJJ.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/Wk6CSs9EmHEZnt6zAHwPQQ6fv3zTku3NdbgtngZM.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/239/peter-cuneo","industry_id",7,"industry",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":137},"industries",[132],"image_media",{"_13":113,"_95":131,"_96":118,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},{"_13":114,"_95":130,"_96":119,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},"Wk6CSs9EmHEZnt6zAHwPQQ6fv3zTku3NdbgtngZM.jpg","KinLg43kCdu4GfVwjutLrYLdjvAkAwvdcvIMiSJJ.jpg",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":136},"name","Entertainment","pivot",{"_35":36,"_121":122},{"_35":36,"_121":122},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_146":147,"_148":149,"_150":151,"_152":153,"_154":155},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]