[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3199/ask-the-hard-questions-respectfully","id",3199,"title","Ask the hard questions (respectfully)","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.500\nAnd it rankles me when I see people who are avoiding asking what needs to be\n\n2\n00:00:07.500 --> 00:00:08.580\nasked.\n\n3\n00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:13.740\nI have asked questions at times that ruin relationships.\n\n4\n00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:15.740\nI don't want to get specific.\n\n5\n00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:17.380\nThere's some pretty famous people.\n\n6\n00:00:17.380 --> 00:00:20.710\nI actually did a commentary about this on my show a couple of weeks ago, so\n\n7\n00:00:20.710 --> 00:00:21.140\nthis one's\n\n8\n00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:22.620\nno secret.\n\n9\n00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:27.680\nFuzzy Zeller, after the whole episode with Tiger Woods in 1997 at Augusta\n\n10\n00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:28.700\nNational, I\n\n11\n00:00:28.700 --> 00:00:30.580\nhad some things to say about that.\n\n12\n00:00:30.580 --> 00:00:35.420\nFuzzy never talked to me from that day until the day he passed away.\n\n13\n00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:37.220\nHe wouldn't talk to me.\n\n14\n00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:40.860\nI think you've got to do what you've got to do.\n\n15\n00:00:40.860 --> 00:00:47.950\nI honestly believe that when you have a microphone in your hand and you work in\n\n16\n00:00:47.950 --> 00:00:50.580\nthe media, your\n\n17\n00:00:50.580 --> 00:00:55.460\njob is to represent people on the couch.\n\n18\n00:00:55.460 --> 00:00:59.940\nThey're there to ask questions that they want the answers to.\n\n19\n00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:04.260\nNow, number one is you have to be respectful.\n\n20\n00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:10.390\nI think Tom Callahan, the just brilliant journalist, wrote a lot about golf in\n\n21\n00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:11.820\nthe NBA.\n\n22\n00:01:11.820 --> 00:01:17.020\nHe did a story on Larry Bird, and Bird was famously reticent.\n\n23\n00:01:17.020 --> 00:01:20.820\nHe didn't really do an awful lot of talking to a lot of people, I think.\n\n24\n00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:21.820\nBird asked him.\n\n25\n00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:28.080\n\"What are you trying to do here?\" and he said, \"My objective is, \"Fare to you\n\n26\n00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:30.420\ntrue to me.\"\n\n27\n00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:36.450\nI think that was the phrase, but that really represents, I think, what you've\n\n28\n00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:37.380\ngot to do.\n\n29\n00:01:37.380 --> 00:01:39.460\nYou've got to be respectful of people.\n\n30\n00:01:39.460 --> 00:01:45.330\nYou've got to give them respect, but that doesn't mean that there aren't\n\n31\n00:01:45.330 --> 00:01:46.340\nquestions to\n\n32\n00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:46.740\nask.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1434458,"end_time",1541259,"keywords","Communication, questions, interviewing, Tiger Woods, Fuzzy Zeller, Tom Callahan, Larry Bird, respect","slug","ask-the-hard-questions-respectfully","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","FrKEpsxkIbYfRsLcu00X0201bg72HXdMFI5qsNQ02eblkOU","mux_asset_id","WXWgjNiOi3F6p7CDqWcAj9jNiHyDdLZ2L01oG77P5Tfg","leader_id",263,"episode_id",415,"updated_at","2026-02-05T17:02:19.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3199/ask-the-hard-questions-respectfully","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Curiosity builds connection","curiosity-builds-connection","When you cultivate genuine curiosity for people, you create space for better conversations, stronger relationships, and more meaningful work.","summary","

The 2026 Winter Olympics kick off tomorrow! And who better to get you in the spirit than the guy who has brought Olympic stories to life for more than four decades!

Jimmy Roberts is a 13-time Emmy Award-winning broadcaster for NBC and the Golf Channel, and he’s the voice behind some of the most unforgettable human moments in Olympic history.

In this episode, Jimmy shares how curiosity fuels connection, and how it can help you listen more deeply and connect authentically with the people you lead.

Whether you’re leading a team, trying to build stronger relationships, or just looking for a fresh way to see the world around you, this conversation is full of insights (and stories that will give you chills).

You’ll also learn:

What “un-trying” is (and why it’s important)
Why storytelling is a leadership skill
The #1 thing to prioritize if you want to stay calm in big moments
What the Olympics can teach us about inspiring others

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.340\nHello everyone, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:04.340 --> 00:00:04.960\nNovak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:10.130\nThe 2026 Winter Olympics kick off tomorrow, and there's no better guest to get\n\n4\n00:00:10.130 --> 00:00:10.960\nyou in the spirit\n\n5\n00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:16.130\nthan the guy who has brought Olympic stories to life for more than four decades\n\n6\n00:00:16.130 --> 00:00:16.160\n.\n\n7\n00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:21.330\nToday, we've got Jimmy Roberts on the podcast. He's a 13-time Emmy award-\n\n8\n00:00:21.330 --> 00:00:22.240\nwinning broadcaster for\n\n9\n00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:26.760\nNBC on the Golf Channel. In this episode, you'll not only hear incredible\n\n10\n00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:27.840\nstories from the Olympics\n\n11\n00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:33.340\nover the years, but you'll also hear how Jimmy's curiosity fuels his connection\n\n12\n00:00:33.340 --> 00:00:34.320\n. It'll help you\n\n13\n00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.840\nlisten more deeply and connect more authentically with the people that you lead\n\n14\n00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:39.680\n. So whether you're\n\n15\n00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:43.440\nleading a team, trying to build stronger relationships, or just looking for a\n\n16\n00:00:43.440 --> 00:00:44.480\nfresh way to see the\n\n17\n00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:49.650\nworld around you, you are going to love this conversation with Jimmy Roberts.\n\n18\n00:00:49.650 --> 00:00:50.000\nEnjoy.\n\n19\n00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:55.040\nThat's unheard of. Nobody'd ever done it before. Nobody'll ever do it again.\n\n20\n00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:59.280\nI know this is going to sound crazy. I think it's the greatest athletic feat\n\n21\n00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.320\nthat I have ever thought of.\n\n22\n00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:12.670\nWe're all tuned into the Olympics right now, and when you watch the games today\n\n23\n00:01:12.670 --> 00:01:12.880\n,\n\n24\n00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:17.520\nwhat are you paying attention to that most viewers probably miss?\n\n25\n00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:25.040\nI'm the strangest sports animal because I never got into it for the numbers,\n\n26\n00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:26.480\nthe results. I mean,\n\n27\n00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:31.650\nof course, I care deeply about a lot of that stuff. But to me, it's always the\n\n28\n00:01:31.650 --> 00:01:32.240\nstories.\n\n29\n00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:37.440\nAnd that's what I pay attention to. And that's one of the reasons I think that\n\n30\n00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:38.240\nthe Olympics have\n\n31\n00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:43.410\nalways been so successful because we end up caring about Romanian weightlifters\n\n32\n00:01:43.410 --> 00:01:45.200\nand Japanese tennis\n\n33\n00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:51.280\ntable players because, you know, Roon Arlidge, who was the ultimate leader when\n\n34\n00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.080\nit came to sports\n\n35\n00:01:52.080 --> 00:01:58.670\ntelevision and a real innovator, he created a phrase and a concept that today\n\n36\n00:01:58.670 --> 00:01:59.840\npeople use so\n\n37\n00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.360\nliberally. And I would imagine that the majority of people who use it don't\n\n38\n00:02:04.360 --> 00:02:05.680\nhave any idea where it\n\n39\n00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:10.260\ncame from or what it means. And that's up close and personal. And the idea was\n\n40\n00:02:10.260 --> 00:02:11.520\nwhen ABC sports first\n\n41\n00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:16.690\nstarted doing the Olympics in the early 60s, they had to figure out a way to\n\n42\n00:02:16.690 --> 00:02:18.400\nget people to\n\n43\n00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:23.680\nget invested in what was happening. And the majority of these athletes are\n\n44\n00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:24.000\ngoing to be\n\n45\n00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.540\npeople they didn't know. So they did these small little features, which\n\n46\n00:02:28.540 --> 00:02:29.680\nintroduced you to these\n\n47\n00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:34.330\npeople and eventually gave you a rooting interest. They got you up close and\n\n48\n00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:35.680\npersonal. And for any\n\n49\n00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:41.280\nstorytelling, I think that's where it's at. You know, you got to care, right?\n\n50\n00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.600\nAnd it can't just care\n\n51\n00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:47.690\nabout someone with a number on their back. You want to know their story. And\n\n52\n00:02:47.690 --> 00:02:49.200\nthat's why the Olympics\n\n53\n00:02:49.200 --> 00:02:53.510\nare just the greatest. Everybody has a story, I like to say. But Olympic\n\n54\n00:02:53.510 --> 00:02:54.400\nstories to me,\n\n55\n00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:58.790\nthese are extraordinary people. I mean, if you think about best in the world,\n\n56\n00:02:58.790 --> 00:02:59.680\nyou know,\n\n57\n00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:03.640\nright? I should have done the research on this. And somewhere back there, I\n\n58\n00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:04.880\nhave the numbers. But\n\n59\n00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:10.050\nif you think about what the odds are of becoming an Olympian, they're\n\n60\n00:03:10.050 --> 00:03:10.880\nmicroscopic. These are\n\n61\n00:03:10.880 --> 00:03:15.400\nspecial people. So I love these stories. You know, you mentioned Roon Arledge\n\n62\n00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:16.080\nas a leader.\n\n63\n00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:20.600\nWhat did you learn, you know, watching him in action and what made him such a\n\n64\n00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:21.680\nunique character\n\n65\n00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:28.000\nas it relates to leadership? Towards the end of my time with ABC sports and ABC\n\n66\n00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:28.560\nnews,\n\n67\n00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:34.240\nand I worked for both, I worked a little bit with Roon. And I mean, it was\n\n68\n00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:34.720\nreally like the\n\n69\n00:03:34.720 --> 00:03:38.790\ngreat and powerful odds. I remember the first time I met him, I was summoned to\n\n70\n00:03:38.790 --> 00:03:39.760\nhis office at the\n\n71\n00:03:39.760 --> 00:03:45.280\nCalgary Olympics. You know, you'd see this guy passing in the hall. And it was\n\n72\n00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:45.920\nlike the it was\n\n73\n00:03:45.920 --> 00:03:49.870\nlike the head of state or something like that is always a bunch of people scur\n\n74\n00:03:49.870 --> 00:03:51.040\nrying after him.\n\n75\n00:03:51.600 --> 00:04:00.960\nAnd I just remember how unafraid he was. You know, he had an idea. And this is\n\n76\n00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:01.760\nwhat he wanted to\n\n77\n00:04:01.760 --> 00:04:07.520\nexecute. But the thing that I remember was how collaborative he was. You know,\n\n78\n00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:08.560\nhe wanted you\n\n79\n00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:14.230\nto do what he wanted you to do. But he wanted your perspective. He wanted your\n\n80\n00:04:14.230 --> 00:04:15.440\nhelp. And it was,\n\n81\n00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:20.570\nit was very clear that, you know, you were part of his team. And I just, you\n\n82\n00:04:20.570 --> 00:04:21.520\nknow, through the years,\n\n83\n00:04:21.520 --> 00:04:27.110\nI've just really, I have appreciated that as a quality in leaders. And I know,\n\n84\n00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:27.920\nyou know, I hope\n\n85\n00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:32.120\nwe get an opportunity to get to this, our mutual friend Mark Messier, with whom\n\n86\n00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:33.440\nI wrote a book\n\n87\n00:04:33.440 --> 00:04:38.000\na few years ago, to me, is the ultimate leader. And this is a guy who never\n\n88\n00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.280\neven went to college.\n\n89\n00:04:39.280 --> 00:04:42.960\nI don't want to drone on and on. We'll get to it if you want to talk to him.\n\n90\n00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:47.200\nYou know, he was the captain. I mean, he, you know, he was Hall of Fame hockey\n\n91\n00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:47.920\nplayer, took the\n\n92\n00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:52.640\nRangers to the champ. What do you think is his single greatest trait that makes\n\n93\n00:04:52.640 --> 00:04:53.920\nhim a great leader?\n\n94\n00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.840\nYou know, that's, you're in my wheelhouse now, because I spent two years with\n\n95\n00:04:57.840 --> 00:04:58.080\nMark\n\n96\n00:04:58.080 --> 00:05:03.200\nduring the pandemic, you know, when it was pretty lonely out there. And we just\n\n97\n00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:03.200\ntalked\n\n98\n00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:08.880\nendlessly, not only about his life, but about his perspective on things.\n\n99\n00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:12.410\nI mean, this is the only guy at that point who had ever kept in two different\n\n100\n00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:14.080\nteams to a Stanley Cup.\n\n101\n00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:17.170\nAnd, you know, there are people out there who might say, well, what does it\n\n102\n00:05:17.170 --> 00:05:18.080\nmean to be a captain\n\n103\n00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:24.000\nof a team in hockey? It means a real lot. It really is a significant thing. And\n\n104\n00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:24.320\nMark,\n\n105\n00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:29.490\nyou know, there was just so much perspective from my favorite story from the\n\n106\n00:05:29.490 --> 00:05:30.720\ntime that I spent with\n\n107\n00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:37.200\nhim involves a guy named Darren Langdon. Darren Langdon was a journeyman player\n\n108\n00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:38.480\nwho had never played\n\n109\n00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:43.440\nin the NHL. I think it was 1994. It might have been the year after they won the\n\n110\n00:05:43.440 --> 00:05:44.480\nCup. So it was 95.\n\n111\n00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:50.880\nThe Rangers had a game in Montreal, and they had an injury. So they needed to\n\n112\n00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:51.520\ncall up someone\n\n113\n00:05:51.520 --> 00:05:55.030\nfrom their farm system. They ended up calling up Darren Langdon, who had never\n\n114\n00:05:55.030 --> 00:05:56.240\nplayed in the NHL.\n\n115\n00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:02.860\nHe was from rural Canada. So, and so just think about, you know, what's on this\n\n116\n00:06:02.860 --> 00:06:03.760\nguy's mind.\n\n117\n00:06:03.760 --> 00:06:08.310\nHis life is hockey, but he's never played in the NHL. So now he's going to go\n\n118\n00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:09.120\nplay with the Stanley\n\n119\n00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:15.700\nCup champions at the Montreal Forum, the most famous arena in the game. So you\n\n120\n00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:16.800\ncan just only\n\n121\n00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:22.200\nimagine how momentous this moment is. So Langdon, the way it worked with the\n\n122\n00:06:22.200 --> 00:06:23.520\nRangers then, and I don't\n\n123\n00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:28.270\nknow how it is now, is that whenever the team had to go to the arena for a game\n\n124\n00:06:28.270 --> 00:06:29.040\nor a skate,\n\n125\n00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:35.080\nthey had to wear coat and tie. And so the Rangers get to Montreal, and it's the\n\n126\n00:06:35.080 --> 00:06:36.480\nday before the game,\n\n127\n00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:41.650\nand Langdon shows up at the arena, and he's wearing a sweater and khakis. And,\n\n128\n00:06:41.650 --> 00:06:41.920\nyou know,\n\n129\n00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:46.000\nall the guys are really ribbing him. And, you know, he's embarrassed. He looks\n\n130\n00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:46.800\naround. Everybody's\n\n131\n00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.670\nwearing a coat and tie and messiers and scents. You know, he looks at everybody\n\n132\n00:06:50.670 --> 00:06:51.600\nelse's. What are\n\n133\n00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.740\nyou doing? That may, you know, that may be the best that he owns. Why would you\n\n134\n00:06:55.740 --> 00:06:56.720\ndo that to him?\n\n135\n00:06:57.280 --> 00:07:03.760\nSo, anyway, the skate is over. The team goes back to the hotel. Mark calls up a\n\n136\n00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:04.640\nguy that he knows\n\n137\n00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:09.740\nin Montreal, a tailor. God only knows how Mark knows a tailor in Montreal. But\n\n138\n00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:10.480\nhe gets this guy\n\n139\n00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:18.800\nto come to the hotel, and he fits Langdon for a custom-made suit. The next day,\n\n140\n00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.800\nthey all, you know,\n\n141\n00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:26.390\nthey wake up and there's a message for Langdon that there's something for him\n\n142\n00:07:26.390 --> 00:07:27.120\nin the lobby.\n\n143\n00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:31.200\nThey send it up. It's this custom-made suit that this guy has made overnight.\n\n144\n00:07:31.200 --> 00:07:32.720\nYou know, he puts this\n\n145\n00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:36.740\nthing on and he probably never even owned a blazer before. He puts this custom-\n\n146\n00:07:36.740 --> 00:07:37.440\nmade suit on\n\n147\n00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:42.610\nand goes to the game. Must have felt like a million bucks, scored a goal the\n\n148\n00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:43.280\nRangers win.\n\n149\n00:07:43.280 --> 00:07:48.450\nSo, what's the moral of the story? And this is the beauty of it. Mark said, if\n\n150\n00:07:48.450 --> 00:07:49.440\nyou have someone\n\n151\n00:07:49.440 --> 00:07:54.610\nwho's a teammate and you need them, why wouldn't you want them to feel as good\n\n152\n00:07:54.610 --> 00:07:55.760\nabout themselves as\n\n153\n00:07:55.760 --> 00:08:02.630\nthey possibly could? And I'm thinking to myself, you know, duh, that's just so\n\n154\n00:08:02.630 --> 00:08:04.160\nintuitive. I mean,\n\n155\n00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.680\nI would say it doesn't cost anything. It costs Mark a suit. But, you know, that\n\n156\n00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:09.920\nto him was nothing.\n\n157\n00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:13.810\nBut the point is, it doesn't really cost you anything as a leader to make\n\n158\n00:08:13.810 --> 00:08:14.800\nsomebody feel good\n\n159\n00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:20.290\nabout themselves and feel worth. And that's what I get back to, you know, with\n\n160\n00:08:20.290 --> 00:08:22.640\nthe Arlage story was,\n\n161\n00:08:22.640 --> 00:08:28.300\nhe was, you know, had his opinions and was unsparing, but he was grateful in my\n\n162\n00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:30.720\nexperience. And, you know,\n\n163\n00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:34.790\nI remember him making me feel good about the work that I did. And that was\n\n164\n00:08:34.790 --> 00:08:35.680\nmeaningful and\n\n165\n00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:40.310\nemotivating. Absolutely. And, you know, you know, staying on the Olympics for a\n\n166\n00:08:40.310 --> 00:08:41.600\nwhile here, you know,\n\n167\n00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.770\nwhen you walk into Olympic host city and it's day one for Jimmy Roberts, you\n\n168\n00:08:46.770 --> 00:08:47.680\nknow, what's the first\n\n169\n00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:54.550\nthing you look for as a storyteller? I look for the unusual. You know, I think\n\n170\n00:08:54.550 --> 00:08:55.520\nthat if you read\n\n171\n00:08:55.520 --> 00:09:03.080\nthe headlines, there are a lot of things which are that everybody knows. I look\n\n172\n00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:04.720\nfor the stories\n\n173\n00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:12.490\nthat maybe not everybody knows. I think the best story that I ever did was at\n\n174\n00:09:12.490 --> 00:09:14.400\nthe Sydney Olympics\n\n175\n00:09:14.400 --> 00:09:21.450\nabout a guy named Eric Musambani. Eric Musambani got this nickname, Eric the E\n\n176\n00:09:21.450 --> 00:09:23.360\nel. And he was\n\n177\n00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:29.200\nnot qualified for the games by numbers, but he got what they called an Olympic\n\n178\n00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:30.240\nwild guard birth,\n\n179\n00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.760\nwhich meant that the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, would include\n\n180\n00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:36.560\ncertain\n\n181\n00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:41.730\nathletes from countries that hadn't necessarily qualified, but in the interest\n\n182\n00:09:41.730 --> 00:09:42.480\nof trying to grow\n\n183\n00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:46.730\nthe sport, they would include these athletes and give them the Olympic\n\n184\n00:09:46.730 --> 00:09:49.040\nexperience maybe to inspire\n\n185\n00:09:49.040 --> 00:09:53.300\npeople in their own countries. So here comes this guy from Equatorial Guinea.\n\n186\n00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:54.320\nBecause he was\n\n187\n00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.480\nthe lowest of qualifiers, he was in the first heat. Well, there were only three\n\n188\n00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:01.040\npeople in the\n\n189\n00:10:01.040 --> 00:10:06.620\nfirst heat. The other two wild card qualifiers also, they both fall started. So\n\n190\n00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:07.760\nwhat ended up\n\n191\n00:10:07.760 --> 00:10:12.930\nhappening was here's this Eric the Eel swimming by himself. Now you got to\n\n192\n00:10:12.930 --> 00:10:14.000\nremember Australia,\n\n193\n00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:20.320\nswimming in Australia is like what the NFL is in the United States. I mean,\n\n194\n00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:21.840\nthey love it.\n\n195\n00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:26.960\nSo this guy dives in the water and maybe for the first 15 meters, it looked\n\n196\n00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:27.440\nlike he knew what he\n\n197\n00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:37.590\nwas doing. But it clearly became evident that he was out of his element. And it\n\n198\n00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:38.640\nbecame a thrashing\n\n199\n00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:44.310\nstroke and then literally a dog paddle. I mean, he was in the pool by himself.\n\n200\n00:10:44.310 --> 00:10:46.080\nAnd I remember that\n\n201\n00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:51.240\nsome of the athletes might have, some of the spectators might have started off\n\n202\n00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:51.280\nlaughing.\n\n203\n00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:58.960\nBut by the time he got about halfway there, they were cheering endlessly. And\n\n204\n00:10:58.960 --> 00:10:59.840\nto me,\n\n205\n00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:06.000\nthat was the Olympics. This guy trying his hardest, unconcerned about what\n\n206\n00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:07.040\nanybody else would think.\n\n207\n00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:11.810\nAnd I remember I put a line in the script, I said, could you do it? You know, I\n\n208\n00:11:11.810 --> 00:11:12.960\ndon't know if I could.\n\n209\n00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:16.720\nBut I love that story. I think that's my favorite Olympic story.\n\n210\n00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:22.800\nYou covered your first Olympics in 1980 and I'm pulling up a picture of you\n\n211\n00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:23.920\nback then.\n\n212\n00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:28.450\nWhat's the story from your first Olympic experience that taught you an\n\n213\n00:11:28.450 --> 00:11:29.600\nimportant lesson?\n\n214\n00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:35.440\nI think that I was so starry-eyed. Look at that. That looks just like me, doesn\n\n215\n00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:35.600\n't it?\n\n216\n00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:43.900\nLove the hair. So I was starry-eyed at that point. You know, those Lake Placid\n\n217\n00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.800\nOlympics were,\n\n218\n00:11:45.520 --> 00:11:49.440\nI mean, they'll never be another Olympics like that. That was a tiny little\n\n219\n00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:49.760\ntown.\n\n220\n00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:57.920\nYou know, what happened? I always say that I felt terribly sorry for Eric Haydn\n\n221\n00:11:57.920 --> 00:11:58.640\nbecause,\n\n222\n00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:02.890\nyou know, the miracle on ice happened there, the United States beating the\n\n223\n00:12:02.890 --> 00:12:03.440\nSoviets.\n\n224\n00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:12.080\nAnd just next door, at the outdoor rink, Eric Haydn won five gold medal. I was\n\n225\n00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.200\nstarry-eyed at that\n\n226\n00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:18.370\npoint. You know, those Lake Placid Olympics were, I mean, they'll never be\n\n227\n00:12:18.370 --> 00:12:19.120\nanother Olympics like\n\n228\n00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:24.640\nthat. That was a tiny little town. You know, the miracle on ice happened there,\n\n229\n00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:25.520\nthe United States\n\n230\n00:12:25.520 --> 00:12:31.870\nbeating the Soviets. And just next door, at the outdoor rink, Eric Haydn won\n\n231\n00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:33.280\nfive gold medals,\n\n232\n00:12:33.280 --> 00:12:37.850\neverything from the 500 to the 10,000. That's, you know, people don't follow\n\n233\n00:12:37.850 --> 00:12:38.960\nspeeds. That's unheard\n\n234\n00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:43.040\nof. Nobody'd ever done it before. Nobody will ever do it again. I know this is\n\n235\n00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:43.520\ngoing to sound\n\n236\n00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:50.000\ncrazy. I think it's the greatest athletic feat that I have ever thought of. It\n\n237\n00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.520\n's like winning the\n\n238\n00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:57.360\n100-meter dash and the marathon and everything in between. But so what did I\n\n239\n00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.120\nlearn? You know,\n\n240\n00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:04.290\nI learned that you got to kind of keep your feet on the ground, I think. The\n\n241\n00:13:04.290 --> 00:13:05.280\nbigger the event,\n\n242\n00:13:05.280 --> 00:13:09.040\nthe more grounded you need to stay. And I think there are applications in\n\n243\n00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:10.000\nbusiness for that.\n\n244\n00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:17.280\nYou know, a big deal, a lot going on. You know, you need to take a deep breath.\n\n245\n00:13:17.280 --> 00:13:18.560\nI always say the\n\n246\n00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:24.600\nbest advice that I ever got as a broadcaster was a friend of mine. He passed\n\n247\n00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:25.760\naway last year,\n\n248\n00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:29.500\nAl Troutwick. He was a terrific broadcaster. He was in my wedding. We were dear\n\n249\n00:13:29.500 --> 00:13:30.080\nfriends.\n\n250\n00:13:31.040 --> 00:13:36.210\nHe always used to say, \"However slowly you think you're speaking, you're not\n\n251\n00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:36.960\nspeaking anywhere\n\n252\n00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:42.130\nnear as slowly as you think you're speaking.\" And what ends up happening, the\n\n253\n00:13:42.130 --> 00:13:43.040\nmore quickly,\n\n254\n00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:47.430\nyou know, it's the adrenaline flows and then, you know, your lips can't keep up\n\n255\n00:13:47.430 --> 00:13:48.320\nwith your brain.\n\n256\n00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:54.360\nAnd there's a corollary in business or in, you know, whatever it is that we do\n\n257\n00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:54.960\non a day-to-day\n\n258\n00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:03.040\nbasis. Take a deep breath. I wrote a book with a golf book, years and years ago\n\n259\n00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:03.600\n, and it was called\n\n260\n00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.110\nBreaking the Slump. And it was all about how great players conquered their\n\n261\n00:14:07.110 --> 00:14:08.080\nworst times in the game\n\n262\n00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.300\nand what you can learn from it. One of my favorite stories from the book came\n\n263\n00:14:11.300 --> 00:14:12.160\nfrom Davis\n\n264\n00:14:12.160 --> 00:14:16.110\nLove the Third, whose father, Davis Love Jr., was a very, very good player and\n\n265\n00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:17.440\na very good teacher.\n\n266\n00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:21.830\nAnd Davis Love Jr. went to the University of Texas where his coach was Harvey\n\n267\n00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:22.400\nPeanock,\n\n268\n00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:27.920\nthe very famous golf coach. And one day, Harvey's on the range, or Davis Jr.'s\n\n269\n00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:28.720\non the range hitting\n\n270\n00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:34.400\nballs and Harvey walks by and he says, \"Hey, Davis, what do you got there?\" He\n\n271\n00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:34.880\nsays,\n\n272\n00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:38.620\n\"Well, coach, I got a seven iron.\" He says, \"Davis, see that green out there? I\n\n273\n00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:39.440\nneed you to get me\n\n274\n00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:45.490\nsome six irons on that green.\" And Davis says, \"Coach, that green is 155 yards\n\n275\n00:14:45.490 --> 00:14:46.400\naway. Why would\n\n276\n00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:51.920\nI hit six iron?\" He said, \"Because sometimes the answer is to try less hard.\"\n\n277\n00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:54.240\nNow, I just think\n\n278\n00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:59.610\nthat's genius. Because what wouldn't we do better if we would all just take a\n\n279\n00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:00.880\nlittle bit of a deep\n\n280\n00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:06.040\nbreath? It doesn't mean that you don't try hard. It just mean, or apply\n\n281\n00:15:06.040 --> 00:15:07.200\nyourself fully. It just\n\n282\n00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:12.780\nmeans sometimes the answer is to take a deep breath, take your foot off the\n\n283\n00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:13.840\naccelerator,\n\n284\n00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.200\nand maybe understand that cruise control is more effective sometimes.\n\n285\n00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.200\nThat's interesting because at Young, one of the things we taught our leaders\n\n286\n00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:22.400\nwas the importance\n\n287\n00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:29.410\nof untrying, which is, I think, a great phrase. I want to take you back a\n\n288\n00:15:29.410 --> 00:15:31.200\nlittle further here.\n\n289\n00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.720\nWhat's the story from your childhood, Jimmy, that really shaped the kind of\n\n290\n00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.280\nleader you are today,\n\n291\n00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:46.720\nthe kind of storyteller you are? I was a lacrosse player, and I was a decent\n\n292\n00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.520\nlacrosse player. I was\n\n293\n00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:51.900\nthe captain of my high school team. I aspired to go and play further. I never\n\n294\n00:15:51.900 --> 00:15:54.720\ndid. But I remember\n\n295\n00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:01.600\nthat we were playing a team that my school had never beaten in the history of\n\n296\n00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.120\nthe two schools.\n\n297\n00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:14.080\nAnd I had a really good game, as I remember it's like it's yesterday. I had\n\n298\n00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.360\nfour goals and two assists,\n\n299\n00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:20.880\nand I was really proud of myself. But I made a critical mistake at the end of\n\n300\n00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:21.600\nthe game. We were\n\n301\n00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.820\nup by one goal, and the coach told me, \"I want you to take the ball, and I don\n\n302\n00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:27.360\n't want it to\n\n303\n00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:31.930\nleave your stick. I want you to run around. I don't care if they kill you. You\n\n304\n00:16:31.930 --> 00:16:32.960\nare not to throw the\n\n305\n00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:38.800\nball to anybody.\" It blows the whistle. We start. We're up by one goal. Never\n\n306\n00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:40.240\nbeaten this team before,\n\n307\n00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:46.640\nand they collapse on me. A couple of defenders collapse on me, and my instinct\n\n308\n00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:47.600\ntook over,\n\n309\n00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:53.870\nbecause there in front of the goal was a teammate of mine, completely unguarded\n\n310\n00:16:53.870 --> 00:16:54.240\n.\n\n311\n00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:02.170\nThere wasn't anybody within 25 yards of him, and I threw him the ball. And he\n\n312\n00:17:02.170 --> 00:17:04.560\ndropped the ball.\n\n313\n00:17:04.560 --> 00:17:10.830\nThey ended up running down the field and scoring. The game ended up being tied,\n\n314\n00:17:10.830 --> 00:17:11.600\nand because of a\n\n315\n00:17:11.600 --> 00:17:17.640\nlightning situation, they called the game. So there was a victory in the sense\n\n316\n00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:18.720\nthat it was the first\n\n317\n00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.800\ntime that we ever didn't lose to them, but it was a loss for me personally. I\n\n318\n00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:23.520\nstill haven't\n\n319\n00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:28.080\nreconciled if I feel I did the right thing, or I did the wrong thing about that\n\n320\n00:17:28.080 --> 00:17:29.120\n, but I know that\n\n321\n00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:33.040\nthat was four decades ago, and I still think about it. I don't know if I\n\n322\n00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:34.240\nanswered your question,\n\n323\n00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.320\nbut that's something from my youth that I remember. When you think about it,\n\n324\n00:17:38.320 --> 00:17:39.680\nhow does that impact\n\n325\n00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.720\nhow you do your job today, or how do you think about things? Do you got to\n\n326\n00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:44.800\nshare the ball,\n\n327\n00:17:44.800 --> 00:17:51.200\nkeep the ball? What's the takeaway here? Well, I am a big believer in share the\n\n328\n00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:52.560\nball. Maybe that's\n\n329\n00:17:52.560 --> 00:17:56.990\njust because that's who I am. That was the instinct that took over there, right\n\n330\n00:17:56.990 --> 00:17:57.200\n?\n\n331\n00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.320\nYeah, it really was, and I mean, it may not have worked out. Maybe the lesson\n\n332\n00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:01.280\nDavid is that\n\n333\n00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:05.800\nit may not have worked out that time, but I know that's the right instinct to\n\n334\n00:18:05.800 --> 00:18:06.720\nshare the ball.\n\n335\n00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:13.300\nYeah, you know, what's something, Jimmy, when you think about how you were\n\n336\n00:18:13.300 --> 00:18:13.760\nraised,\n\n337\n00:18:14.560 --> 00:18:21.140\nthat you probably didn't really appreciate until now. Well, I think I\n\n338\n00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:22.240\nappreciated this\n\n339\n00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:30.010\nwhen I became an adult. My parents were parents of the depression and the\n\n340\n00:18:30.010 --> 00:18:30.960\nsecond world war. My\n\n341\n00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:37.090\nfather was a veteran and was fought and injured and was decorated, second world\n\n342\n00:18:37.090 --> 00:18:38.320\nwar. My mother was\n\n343\n00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:44.160\na school teacher. I had a pretty conventional upbringing. I wouldn't say they\n\n344\n00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.840\nwere the strictest\n\n345\n00:18:45.840 --> 00:18:50.130\nparents. They were strict. I mean, I was the third of three children, so by the\n\n346\n00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:50.560\ntime I\n\n347\n00:18:50.560 --> 00:18:54.980\nrolled around, they probably had had it. It's like, yeah, whatever. But my\n\n348\n00:18:54.980 --> 00:18:58.640\nparents were very moral.\n\n349\n00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:04.960\nThey believe that what's right is right, and they weren't going to ever tell me\n\n350\n00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.720\nwhat I should\n\n351\n00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:12.960\nthink is right. But to this day, I can't get away from it. And I'm one of those\n\n352\n00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:13.920\ncrazy people. If I\n\n353\n00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.490\nsee people driving on the shoulder during a traffic jam, it makes me nuts. You\n\n354\n00:19:18.490 --> 00:19:20.000\nknow, people cutting in\n\n355\n00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:25.590\nline. You must be very frustrated living in New York that. Yeah, but I do think\n\n356\n00:19:25.590 --> 00:19:26.320\n, again, one of\n\n357\n00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:32.160\nthose things that I may not have reconciled yet, but I think that that shaped\n\n358\n00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.760\nme knowing where\n\n359\n00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:43.130\ntrue north is. And I think the challenge in life is kind of getting comfortable\n\n360\n00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:43.840\nwith it\n\n361\n00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:49.010\nand just feeling OK about it. You know, I understand that when you were in high\n\n362\n00:19:49.010 --> 00:19:49.600\nschool,\n\n363\n00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:55.920\nyou used to write and deliver a joke a day. Well, you've done your research.\n\n364\n00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.480\nIs this when you realized you were destined for a broadcasting career?\n\n365\n00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.840\nYeah, it's funny. It was called the north house joke of the day. I just went to\n\n366\n00:20:05.840 --> 00:20:07.280\na big reunion,\n\n367\n00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:11.020\nbig high school reunion. I won't tell you what number it was. It was a lot of\n\n368\n00:20:11.020 --> 00:20:12.880\nyears. But\n\n369\n00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:16.620\nwhen I got when I got there, one of the first things everybody said was the\n\n370\n00:20:16.620 --> 00:20:17.120\nnorth house\n\n371\n00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:22.320\njoke of the day. It's the guy from the joke of the day. And you know, it's\n\n372\n00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:23.200\nalways a little bit of a\n\n373\n00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.890\nham. But the interesting thing was when I got into when I graduated college and\n\n374\n00:20:27.890 --> 00:20:28.400\nwent to the\n\n375\n00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:36.960\nUniversity of Maryland, go Terps, I didn't want to get in front of the camera\n\n376\n00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.000\nbecause I remember\n\n377\n00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:43.840\nthinking to myself, I didn't want to be the person who everybody passed\n\n378\n00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:45.120\njudgment on.\n\n379\n00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:51.200\nI love the creative aspect of what the media was about. But the whole idea that\n\n380\n00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.480\n, and I would look\n\n381\n00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.640\nin back then, it was in the newspapers and maybe on the radio and people would\n\n382\n00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.080\ncriticize the way\n\n383\n00:20:58.080 --> 00:21:02.110\nthis person went about his job or the way this person looked. And I thought, \"\n\n384\n00:21:02.110 --> 00:21:02.880\nWho the heck needs\n\n385\n00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:09.750\nthat?\" So I worked behind the camera for eight years for ABC Sports, then ABC\n\n386\n00:21:09.750 --> 00:21:11.200\nNews, then ABC Sports.\n\n387\n00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:16.370\nAnd in 1988, I thought I was going to lose my job because there was some\n\n388\n00:21:16.370 --> 00:21:17.760\ncorporate restructuring.\n\n389\n00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:21.280\nAnd I had to kind of do an inventory and say to myself, \"Well, what do I do?\n\n390\n00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:23.920\nWhat talent do I have?\"\n\n391\n00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:29.090\nAnd I was writing and producing these features for some pretty famous people.\n\n392\n00:21:29.090 --> 00:21:29.600\nHoward,\n\n393\n00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:36.610\nCocel, Jim McKay, Keith Jackson, those may be names that young audiences don't\n\n394\n00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:37.200\nrecognize,\n\n395\n00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.720\nbut they were lions of the industry. And I said, \"Well, if I can write and\n\n396\n00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:42.480\nproduce these things\n\n397\n00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:49.740\nfor them, why can't I do it for myself?\" So I took a bunch of these scripts,\n\n398\n00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:50.560\nthese stories that I\n\n399\n00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:56.400\nhad done. I had written, I took their voices off, put my voice on. Back then,\n\n400\n00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:56.960\nyou actually had to\n\n401\n00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.150\nmake a tape and sent it out. I sent a tape out, got a bunch of nasty rejection\n\n402\n00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:01.840\nletters,\n\n403\n00:22:01.840 --> 00:22:08.430\nall of which I still have. And there was one place that was willing to give me\n\n404\n00:22:08.430 --> 00:22:09.040\na job.\n\n405\n00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:14.950\nAnd back then, it was a really obscure little cable operation in rural\n\n406\n00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:16.800\nConnecticut. It was called\n\n407\n00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:23.380\nESPN. And to this day, one of the funniest things when I think back on it was I\n\n408\n00:22:23.380 --> 00:22:24.640\ncame from ABC Sports,\n\n409\n00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:31.120\nwhich at the time was the leader in the industry. It was as big as there was in\n\n410\n00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:31.760\nthe industry.\n\n411\n00:22:31.760 --> 00:22:37.920\nAnd I went to this ESPN. And I remember I picked up the phone one day early on\n\n412\n00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.320\nin my\n\n413\n00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:42.180\ntime at ESPN. And I was on the phone with somebody. And I said, \"Hey, my name\n\n414\n00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:43.520\nis Jimmy Roberts. I'm\n\n415\n00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:48.660\nfrom ESPN.\" And there was silence on the other end of the phone. And the woman\n\n416\n00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:50.560\nsaid, \"SPN,\n\n417\n00:22:50.560 --> 00:22:57.230\nwhat is that?\" Now, can you imagine? That's like, I mean, can you imagine there\n\n418\n00:22:57.230 --> 00:22:58.320\n's anybody\n\n419\n00:22:58.320 --> 00:23:04.480\nin America? Sports fan or not who doesn't know what ESPN is now. But back then,\n\n420\n00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:05.680\nI mean, we are\n\n421\n00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.850\ntalking about the backwaters of media. So it was an interesting time, but that\n\n422\n00:23:10.850 --> 00:23:11.680\n's how I got started.\n\n423\n00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:18.940\nAnd I'm really lucky. I ended up there as my first step because I could fail.\n\n424\n00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:19.760\nAnd I failed a lot.\n\n425\n00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:26.000\nAnd I could fail in relative obscurity. I like to say that if there was YouTube\n\n426\n00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:26.640\nback then,\n\n427\n00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:33.510\nI'd be waiting tables right now. You're a really nice guy. And one of the\n\n428\n00:23:33.510 --> 00:23:33.680\nthings\n\n429\n00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:41.760\nthat journalists have to do, and I'm sure if you're a nice guy, might be even\n\n430\n00:23:41.760 --> 00:23:42.400\nharder to do,\n\n431\n00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:49.290\nis you got to ask a tough question. So how do you think about that aspect of\n\n432\n00:23:49.290 --> 00:23:49.760\nyour job?\n\n433\n00:23:49.760 --> 00:23:56.630\nWell, I tell you what, that lives deep inside me. And it rankles me when I see\n\n434\n00:23:56.630 --> 00:23:59.440\npeople who are\n\n435\n00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:06.310\navoiding asking what needs to be asked. I have asked questions at times that\n\n436\n00:24:06.310 --> 00:24:07.280\nruin relationships.\n\n437\n00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:12.450\nI don't want to get specific. There are some pretty famous people. I actually\n\n438\n00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:13.200\ndid a commentary\n\n439\n00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.200\nabout this on my show a couple of weeks ago. So this one's no secret. Fuzzy Z\n\n440\n00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.000\neller, after the\n\n441\n00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.460\nwhole episode with Tiger Woods in 1997 at Augusta National, I had some things\n\n442\n00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:24.800\nto say about that.\n\n443\n00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:30.080\nFuzzy never talked to me from that day until the day he passed away. Wouldn't\n\n444\n00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:30.800\ntalk to me.\n\n445\n00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:39.520\nI think you got to do what you got to do. I honestly believe that when you have\n\n446\n00:24:39.520 --> 00:24:40.480\na microphone in your\n\n447\n00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:49.040\nhand and you work in the media, your job is to represent people on the couch.\n\n448\n00:24:49.040 --> 00:24:51.040\nYou're there to ask\n\n449\n00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:57.620\nquestions that they want the answers to. Now, number one is you have to be\n\n450\n00:24:57.620 --> 00:24:58.640\nrespectful.\n\n451\n00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:04.920\nI think Tom Callahan, the just brilliant journalist, wrote a lot about golf in\n\n452\n00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:06.000\nthe NBA.\n\n453\n00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:12.320\nHe did a story on Larry Bird, and Bird was famously reticent. He didn't really\n\n454\n00:25:12.320 --> 00:25:12.640\ndo an\n\n455\n00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.000\nawful lot of talking to a lot of people, I think. Bird asked him. He said, \"\n\n456\n00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.520\nWell, what are you trying\n\n457\n00:25:17.520 --> 00:25:23.960\nto do here?\" And he said, \"My objective is fair to you, true to me.\" And I\n\n458\n00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.160\nthink that's a really,\n\n459\n00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:31.520\nI think that was the phrase, but that really represents I think what you got to\n\n460\n00:25:31.520 --> 00:25:31.920\ndo. You got\n\n461\n00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:38.960\nto be respectful of people. You got to give them respect. But that doesn't mean\n\n462\n00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.080\nthat there aren't\n\n463\n00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:44.470\nquestions to ask. You know, I worked for Howard Kossell for a couple of years\n\n464\n00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:45.360\non a show he had\n\n465\n00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:49.930\ncalled Sportsbeat. And I get asked all the time, what I learned from Howard.\n\n466\n00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:52.640\nAnd I think the most\n\n467\n00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.900\nimportant takeaway that I had, and I don't know how much I learned from him in\n\n468\n00:25:56.900 --> 00:25:58.320\nthis regard, but my\n\n469\n00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:08.130\ntakeaway was Howard had the ability to ask the biggest names in entertainment,\n\n470\n00:26:08.130 --> 00:26:10.160\nmedia, sports.\n\n471\n00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:17.760\nHe could, politics, he could ask them anything and not lose them. And that is\n\n472\n00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:18.720\nthe trick of being a\n\n473\n00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:23.840\ngood interviewer, I think, is being able to ask the questions that need to be\n\n474\n00:26:23.840 --> 00:26:26.080\nasked. And at the same\n\n475\n00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:32.010\ntime, not losing your subject. Look, anybody can ask really, really hard\n\n476\n00:26:32.010 --> 00:26:33.600\nquestions. What might\n\n477\n00:26:33.600 --> 00:26:38.430\nhappen if you turn your subject off? What good is that? You know, you're going\n\n478\n00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:39.280\nto get one-word\n\n479\n00:26:39.280 --> 00:26:42.880\nanswers, or maybe they'll just get up and walk away, which has happened to me.\n\n480\n00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:46.620\nWell, let me ask you a question. And you talked about Fuzzy Zoller when he's\n\n481\n00:26:46.620 --> 00:26:47.680\nmade his comment about\n\n482\n00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:54.550\nTiger. We're probably sort of fried chicken at the master's dinner. You know,\n\n483\n00:26:54.550 --> 00:26:55.760\nyou lost that\n\n484\n00:26:55.760 --> 00:27:00.930\nfriendship. He never talked to you again. You know, would you ask that question\n\n485\n00:27:00.930 --> 00:27:01.520\ndifferently?\n\n486\n00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:06.480\nI mean, you know, you lost him, right? I mean, what would you do differently?\n\n487\n00:27:07.040 --> 00:27:11.360\nYeah, well, let me give you a little context on that. So I had a really good\n\n488\n00:27:11.360 --> 00:27:12.080\nrelationship with\n\n489\n00:27:12.080 --> 00:27:18.120\nFuzzy, but I wasn't alone. Fuzzy was good to everybody. He was a great guy. He\n\n490\n00:27:18.120 --> 00:27:19.600\nwas a great\n\n491\n00:27:19.600 --> 00:27:26.860\nguy who did a stupid thing. And the details, it wasn't really like asking him a\n\n492\n00:27:26.860 --> 00:27:27.280\nquestion,\n\n493\n00:27:27.280 --> 00:27:31.360\nbut a couple of months after I was a guest on a radio show, the host asked me,\n\n494\n00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:31.600\nhe said,\n\n495\n00:27:31.600 --> 00:27:35.570\ndo I think Fuzzy Zoller is a racist? I said, I said, Fuzzy Zoller is not a\n\n496\n00:27:35.570 --> 00:27:36.640\nracist. Fuzzy\n\n497\n00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:41.830\nZeller is a great guy who did a stupid thing, you know, and Fuzzy happened to\n\n498\n00:27:41.830 --> 00:27:42.960\nhear the radio\n\n499\n00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:48.240\ninterview. And that was what happened. Now, I tried to reach out to him and\n\n500\n00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.960\nhave a discussion\n\n501\n00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:53.480\nwith him about it, but, you know, gets back to, you know, fair to you, true to\n\n502\n00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:53.920\nme.\n\n503\n00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:58.020\nBeing true to me, you know, that's a good thing. So you literally, you\n\n504\n00:27:58.020 --> 00:27:58.960\ndeveloped your style.\n\n505\n00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:05.680\nYou know, how long did it take you as a leader to develop what is now you?\n\n506\n00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:10.850\nIs it when you started out working? How much have you evolved? I mean, versus\n\n507\n00:28:10.850 --> 00:28:11.760\nwhere you were?\n\n508\n00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:15.680\nI hope I'm still evolving. I hope I'm still learning. I learn all the time. I\n\n509\n00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:16.160\njust started\n\n510\n00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.520\nthis new business. We've got the show on Golf Channel on Tuesdays. It's called\n\n511\n00:28:21.520 --> 00:28:22.320\nThe Big Swing,\n\n512\n00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:27.680\nShameless Pop. And it's all about the golf industry. And I am, at my age, I\n\n513\n00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:29.360\nhave a business partner\n\n514\n00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:39.040\nwho I am learning like I feel like I'm in sixth grade. And I'm grateful that my\n\n515\n00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:40.560\nmind and my\n\n516\n00:28:40.560 --> 00:28:47.120\npersonality still kind of allow me to recognize my own ignorance or naivete.\n\n517\n00:28:47.120 --> 00:28:55.850\nI think that I was so fortunate, David, and you must feel the same way. You\n\n518\n00:28:55.850 --> 00:28:56.560\nknow,\n\n519\n00:28:57.280 --> 00:29:01.360\nbe a sponge. I tell this to my kids. You know, there's no shame in not knowing,\n\n520\n00:29:01.360 --> 00:29:01.680\nright?\n\n521\n00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:09.520\nLearn and take. It's okay to take from people, you know, aspects that you\n\n522\n00:29:09.520 --> 00:29:10.880\nadmire from them.\n\n523\n00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:15.430\nAnd I think it's only a fool who doesn't. And then, you know, getting back to\n\n524\n00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:16.320\nwhat I said before,\n\n525\n00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:20.170\nyou got to be able to look in the mirror, you know, because people are not\n\n526\n00:29:20.170 --> 00:29:21.520\ngoing to universally\n\n527\n00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:26.680\nlove everything you do. But if you know it's the right thing, if you're goal-\n\n528\n00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:26.880\noriented,\n\n529\n00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:32.000\nI really believe and you're decent to people. You know, that's a companion\n\n530\n00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:32.880\nthing. You got to be\n\n531\n00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.730\ndecent because not all decisions are easy. Look, you know that, you know, the\n\n532\n00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:37.680\nbusinesses that you've\n\n533\n00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:43.040\nled, you got to make some hard decisions. But if decency governs you and it's\n\n534\n00:29:43.040 --> 00:29:43.600\nthe way you go\n\n535\n00:29:43.600 --> 00:29:46.640\nabout your business, you can look at yourself in the mirror and you can sleep\n\n536\n00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:47.280\nat night.\n\n537\n00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:51.670\nYou know, speaking of learning, you've covered so many different events from\n\n538\n00:29:51.670 --> 00:29:52.320\nthe Olympics,\n\n539\n00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:58.480\nheavyweight championship bouts and Super Bowls. What do you think that diverse\n\n540\n00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.760\nset of experiences\n\n541\n00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:10.450\nhas really given you? I think diversity of experience is just nothing but great\n\n542\n00:30:10.450 --> 00:30:11.280\nfor everybody.\n\n543\n00:30:13.040 --> 00:30:18.240\nYou know, I try and talk to my kids about that. In our house, I'm married to a\n\n544\n00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:19.600\nwoman who was a\n\n545\n00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:24.770\nvery accomplished network television news producer who could care less about\n\n546\n00:30:24.770 --> 00:30:25.120\nsports.\n\n547\n00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:31.010\nShe has her sentence in life is that she has three sons, you know, one of whom\n\n548\n00:30:31.010 --> 00:30:32.400\nworks for the NHL.\n\n549\n00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:36.320\nThe other one was a sportscaster, has been a sportscaster, and the other one is\n\n550\n00:30:36.320 --> 00:30:37.200\nabout to graduate\n\n551\n00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:43.120\ncollege. And all he wants to do is be involved in sports. So, but I, you know,\n\n552\n00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:44.240\nI encourage them\n\n553\n00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:49.850\nto look at their mom and see what her interests are. And it's all about\n\n554\n00:30:49.850 --> 00:30:50.800\ndiversity of thought.\n\n555\n00:30:50.800 --> 00:30:56.530\nIt really is. I just think that that gives you better perspective on life, you\n\n556\n00:30:56.530 --> 00:30:57.120\nknow, learn.\n\n557\n00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:01.510\nYou know, to produce at the level that you've produced and to do it for the\n\n558\n00:31:01.510 --> 00:31:02.240\nnumber of years\n\n559\n00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:08.820\nthat you've done, you got to have elite discipline. You know, what process have\n\n560\n00:31:08.820 --> 00:31:09.040\nyou\n\n561\n00:31:09.040 --> 00:31:12.800\nbuilt into your schedule to consistently perform at a high level?\n\n562\n00:31:12.800 --> 00:31:17.680\nOkay, so I feel very strongly, again, I hate to bring my family back into this,\n\n563\n00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:23.280\nbut I've been telling my kids this forever. There are three things that I think\n\n564\n00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:24.480\nare essential.\n\n565\n00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:29.650\nFor me, a lot of that has to do with the fact that I grew up with what I now\n\n566\n00:31:29.650 --> 00:31:30.160\nrecognize as a\n\n567\n00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:35.330\nlearning disability. I had, you know, ADHD, which, you know, half the\n\n568\n00:31:35.330 --> 00:31:36.640\npopulation does.\n\n569\n00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:42.880\nBut that meant that I just had to try harder, or I had to find my lane, find my\n\n570\n00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:43.760\nprocess. And so\n\n571\n00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:48.930\nfor me, I tell that my kids, and I tell young people when I talk to them also,\n\n572\n00:31:48.930 --> 00:31:50.800\nthis, three things\n\n573\n00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:56.960\nimportant. Number one, work hard. And you know, that may seem kind of obvious,\n\n574\n00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.760\nbut you need to\n\n575\n00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:05.110\nwork hard all the time. You know, nobody should outwork you. That doesn't mean\n\n576\n00:32:05.110 --> 00:32:06.560\nyou need to be ragged,\n\n577\n00:32:06.560 --> 00:32:10.320\nbut you need to feel that again, you look in the mirror, did you give it your\n\n578\n00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:10.720\nall?\n\n579\n00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.240\nAnd I think a lot of that has to, that came from my participation in sports,\n\n580\n00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:15.440\nbecause you know,\n\n581\n00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.010\nif you failed, you know, a lot of times you could look at yourself and say, was\n\n582\n00:32:20.010 --> 00:32:21.280\nI, you know, did I\n\n583\n00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:27.600\nwork my hardest? But the next two things, I think apply to everybody as well.\n\n584\n00:32:27.600 --> 00:32:29.120\nWork hard,\n\n585\n00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:37.600\nbe organized, and be prepared. When I first got to NBC, I didn't do a lot of\n\n586\n00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:38.720\nstudio broadcasting.\n\n587\n00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:46.680\nI did a lot of feature reporting and live reporting from the field. But I got\n\n588\n00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:47.840\nto NBC,\n\n589\n00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:53.120\nand I ended up doing a lot of studio work. I hosted the halftime of Notre Dame\n\n590\n00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:53.920\nfor a bunch of years\n\n591\n00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.640\nand Wimbledon, and this sports update that I did hundreds and hundreds of them\n\n592\n00:32:58.640 --> 00:32:59.120\nthrough the years,\n\n593\n00:32:59.120 --> 00:33:03.640\nmaybe thousands, who knows. But it was being in a studio, and it meant\n\n594\n00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:05.840\ndeveloping a different skill.\n\n595\n00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:11.950\nAnd what I needed to do to kind of make sure that we have this saying, it's,\n\n596\n00:33:11.950 --> 00:33:12.640\nyou know, somebody with\n\n597\n00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.290\nmy best friend, who was a producer, always say to me, had the telecast go, and\n\n598\n00:33:16.290 --> 00:33:16.800\nI'd say, well,\n\n599\n00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:21.970\nthere's no blood on the floor. That's, you know, that's job one, you know, get\n\n600\n00:33:21.970 --> 00:33:22.960\nthrough it cleanly.\n\n601\n00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:27.500\nAnd for me, what that meant was I had to be organized, because, I mean, you\n\n602\n00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:28.400\nlook around and you look\n\n603\n00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:32.830\nat people like, you know, Mike Torrico. I'll leave it at that. He's my\n\n604\n00:33:32.830 --> 00:33:34.640\ncolleague, longtime friend.\n\n605\n00:33:35.280 --> 00:33:41.860\nHe is a freak. He is so exceptionally talented. And I work one of his first\n\n606\n00:33:41.860 --> 00:33:43.200\nshows with a mid-ESPN\n\n607\n00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.050\nin the studio together. And I remember thinking to myself, this guy just has a\n\n608\n00:33:47.050 --> 00:33:48.480\ntalent that's\n\n609\n00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:53.650\nexceptional. He really is extraordinary. And there are people like that who\n\n610\n00:33:53.650 --> 00:33:54.400\njust are really good\n\n611\n00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.360\nat it. Bob Costas was good at it. Jim Nance is good at it. And you could go on\n\n612\n00:33:58.360 --> 00:33:58.880\nand on.\n\n613\n00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:03.630\nI wasn't. So I had to figure out, how can I make sure that there's no blood on\n\n614\n00:34:03.630 --> 00:34:04.560\nthe floor?\n\n615\n00:34:04.560 --> 00:34:10.210\nOkay? So for me, that's, make sure that I rolled into that studio. Every time I\n\n616\n00:34:10.210 --> 00:34:10.800\n'm in front of a\n\n617\n00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.200\ncamera, I want to make sure I am prepared. You know, I want to make sure that\n\n618\n00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:16.880\nthere isn't anything\n\n619\n00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:22.730\nthat has eluded me to get to this moment and be organized. You know, have what\n\n620\n00:34:22.730 --> 00:34:23.840\nwas the old book,\n\n621\n00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:29.010\nknow where your cheese is. You need to know where you can get your hands on\n\n622\n00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:30.480\nwhat you need to do the\n\n623\n00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.650\njob. So be organized, be prepared, work hard. And what I always say that that\n\n624\n00:34:35.650 --> 00:34:36.240\ncreates,\n\n625\n00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:42.480\nI think that creates a sense of confidence and common me, which allows me to be\n\n626\n00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:43.040\nthe best\n\n627\n00:34:43.040 --> 00:34:47.120\nthat I can be. Hello, everyone. I hope you were loving this conversation\n\n628\n00:34:47.120 --> 00:34:48.240\nbetween David and Jimmy.\n\n629\n00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:52.370\nI know I sure am, and it has me all in my feels about the Olympic Games coming\n\n630\n00:34:52.370 --> 00:34:52.800\nup.\n\n631\n00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:57.520\nAs always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode so that you don't miss the\n\n632\n00:34:57.520 --> 00:34:57.840\ndeep\n\n633\n00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.840\nbrief that David and I have about his conversation with Jimmy, you'll get some\n\n634\n00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:02.880\nreal practical tips\n\n635\n00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.330\nthat you can apply to your life and to your leadership. And you'll also hear a\n\n636\n00:35:06.330 --> 00:35:06.880\npretty epic\n\n637\n00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.980\nstory about David Novak's experience at the Olympic Games himself. So stay\n\n638\n00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:12.080\ntuned to the deep brief,\n\n639\n00:35:12.080 --> 00:35:18.280\nand I will see you soon. You know, Jimmy, there's so much, you know, going on\n\n640\n00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:20.480\nright now with AI,\n\n641\n00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:24.220\nartificial intelligence. And you know, when you think about the creative\n\n642\n00:35:24.220 --> 00:35:25.840\nproduct that you produce,\n\n643\n00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:34.720\nyou know, do you use AI at all in your job? And two-part question here, you\n\n644\n00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:34.800\nknow,\n\n645\n00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:45.280\nwhat should leaders not outsource to AI? I haven't really started to use AI to\n\n646\n00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:46.320\nthe degree that\n\n647\n00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:50.640\nI know that I eventually will. My kids use it. There are lots of applications\n\n648\n00:35:50.640 --> 00:35:51.520\nthat I don't love\n\n649\n00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:57.360\nabout it because I think it can be a crutch. It can be a tool, but it can be a\n\n650\n00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:58.320\ncrutch.\n\n651\n00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:02.300\nI mean, we're clearly heading into direction where it's just going to\n\n652\n00:36:02.300 --> 00:36:03.760\naccelerate. So get with\n\n653\n00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:10.030\nthe program or, you know, get gone. I will say my oldest son is a senior at the\n\n654\n00:36:10.030 --> 00:36:10.480\nUniversity of\n\n655\n00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:14.770\nMichigan. And one of the proudest moments I had was he came to me, he's in his\n\n656\n00:36:14.770 --> 00:36:15.840\nlast semester now,\n\n657\n00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.950\nand he said, you know, I'm putting together my course load for my last semester\n\n658\n00:36:21.950 --> 00:36:23.040\n. And I think I'm\n\n659\n00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:28.450\ngoing to take creative writing. And I thought, I love that, you know, because a\n\n660\n00:36:28.450 --> 00:36:29.760\nlot of people say\n\n661\n00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:36.240\nthat writing is one of the things that AI is just going to gobble up. And in\n\n662\n00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:38.640\nfact, it does. It will,\n\n663\n00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:45.440\nand it can. But I think that, you know, when you learn to write, it's basically\n\n664\n00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:46.320\norganizing your\n\n665\n00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:50.220\nthoughts. And so I think that's a really valuable tool. There's so many\n\n666\n00:36:50.220 --> 00:36:53.280\napplications, David, in our\n\n667\n00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.730\nbusiness for AI, particularly when it comes to research for getting prepared to\n\n668\n00:36:58.730 --> 00:36:59.920\ndo something.\n\n669\n00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:06.560\nBut I don't think I've kind of fully scratched the surface here on how I might\n\n670\n00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:08.000\nbe able to use it yet.\n\n671\n00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.280\nYou talked about how you've done hundreds of stories, maybe thousands of\n\n672\n00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.000\nstories, you know.\n\n673\n00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:18.870\nAnd, you know, you're so, you know, so acknowledged at being one of the best in\n\n674\n00:37:18.870 --> 00:37:20.080\nyour field. How do you\n\n675\n00:37:20.080 --> 00:37:24.600\nfight complacency? You know, leaders have a leaders have got to make sure that\n\n676\n00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:24.880\nthey\n\n677\n00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:30.050\nkeep that edge. How do you keep your edge? I said it before, lots of times the\n\n678\n00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:30.800\nstory will find you.\n\n679\n00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:37.380\nI get excited. I know something excites me. I mean, at the point in my career\n\n680\n00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:39.200\nwhere, you know,\n\n681\n00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:43.720\nI recognize that not everything is going to be the best, you know, not\n\n682\n00:37:43.720 --> 00:37:44.800\neverything is going to\n\n683\n00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:50.240\nwin an Emmy. But I have a responsibility to try my hardest, give it my all. But\n\n684\n00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:51.440\nthere are sometimes\n\n685\n00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:55.800\nwhen something a story comes and it taps you on the shoulder, you just can't\n\n686\n00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:56.720\nhelp yourself.\n\n687\n00:37:56.720 --> 00:38:01.050\nAnd I think you need to surrender to it. There are a couple of incidences. I\n\n688\n00:38:01.050 --> 00:38:01.920\ndid a story\n\n689\n00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.790\nfor the Paris Olympics a couple of years ago that is the best thing that I've\n\n690\n00:38:08.790 --> 00:38:09.360\never done for\n\n691\n00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.220\na number of reasons. You know, there have been a couple of things through the\n\n692\n00:38:12.220 --> 00:38:13.200\nyears. I once did\n\n693\n00:38:13.200 --> 00:38:18.780\na story a couple of years ago about a guy who was serving a long sentence in\n\n694\n00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:20.000\nAttica prison\n\n695\n00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.020\nfor murder. And of course, you know, the old story is that prisons are filled\n\n696\n00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:24.880\nwith people who are\n\n697\n00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:27.980\ninnocent. You know, at least that's what they'll tell you. Well, it turns out\n\n698\n00:38:27.980 --> 00:38:29.680\nthis guy was and we\n\n699\n00:38:29.680 --> 00:38:33.540\nhelped. We were among a group of people who ended up being able to get him out\n\n700\n00:38:33.540 --> 00:38:34.800\nof prison. He spent\n\n701\n00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.970\n27 years in Attica. He's an artist. His name is Valentino Dixon. That's some of\n\n702\n00:38:39.970 --> 00:38:40.960\nthe artwork he did,\n\n703\n00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:46.130\nbut he was he loves golf never played, but he became a big fan of golf because\n\n704\n00:38:46.130 --> 00:38:47.200\nhe loved to draw\n\n705\n00:38:47.200 --> 00:38:53.680\npictures of golf courses. In terms of the Olympics, it's still to this day that\n\n706\n00:38:53.680 --> 00:38:54.640\nthe greatest experience\n\n707\n00:38:54.640 --> 00:38:59.020\nthat I've ever had in terms of a story was doing the story on Dan Jansen\n\n708\n00:38:59.020 --> 00:39:00.480\nwinning his gold medal in\n\n709\n00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.160\n1994. Because the back story was just, you know, it just seemed impossible.\n\n710\n00:39:06.160 --> 00:39:08.240\nThese are stories\n\n711\n00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:14.440\nthat, like I say, the tap on the shoulder and you just know and you just get\n\n712\n00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:16.160\nexcited about it.\n\n713\n00:39:16.160 --> 00:39:20.680\nI don't know that my personality would ever allow me to be complacent. I can\n\n714\n00:39:20.680 --> 00:39:21.680\nbarely sit still.\n\n715\n00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:28.090\nIt hurts me sometimes, but it's a really good. It's a really good question. I\n\n716\n00:39:28.090 --> 00:39:28.880\nthink you got to\n\n717\n00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:34.160\nmake sure that you're not phoning it in. Listen, I think there are a bunch of\n\n718\n00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:35.040\npeople who are phoning\n\n719\n00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:40.760\nit in and I don't think you'll see them really rise to the top of whatever it\n\n720\n00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:41.920\nis they do because\n\n721\n00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:46.640\nthat becomes apparent, I think. You cover the masters. You spend a lot of time\n\n722\n00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:48.000\nat Augusta National.\n\n723\n00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:54.240\nIt's sacred ground, obviously. From a leadership standpoint, what do you think\n\n724\n00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:56.080\nthat Augusta\n\n725\n00:39:56.080 --> 00:40:00.390\nNational gets right in terms of tradition and excellence that other\n\n726\n00:40:00.390 --> 00:40:01.920\norganizations could learn\n\n727\n00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:10.460\nfrom? Augusta is just singular. The reason is, in my opinion, because they are\n\n728\n00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:12.400\nthe only organization\n\n729\n00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.990\nI have ever seen. Forget about sports anywhere. Augusta National is willing to\n\n730\n00:40:17.990 --> 00:40:18.800\nleave money on\n\n731\n00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:24.260\nthe table in order to do things the way they think or right. That's so\n\n732\n00:40:24.260 --> 00:40:26.160\nexceptional to me.\n\n733\n00:40:26.160 --> 00:40:31.330\nDo you know of any other business that's willing to say, \"Yeah, I'll take less\n\n734\n00:40:31.330 --> 00:40:32.960\nmoney,\" and I'm not\n\n735\n00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:36.920\nsuggesting that I know the intimate details of their negotiations, but my\n\n736\n00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:38.320\nexperience, and I've\n\n737\n00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:43.440\nbeen going there since the early 1990s, was that they want to do things the way\n\n738\n00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:44.000\nthey want to do\n\n739\n00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:52.320\nthings, and they are willing to suffer the consequences, but they're willing to\n\n740\n00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:52.560\nlive\n\n741\n00:40:52.560 --> 00:40:57.960\nby whatever that necessitates, and I just think that's so rare. I mean, the\n\n742\n00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:58.720\nplace is just so\n\n743\n00:40:58.720 --> 00:41:06.320\nexceptional, and I love it. I mean, it's unique. You're back to that upbringing\n\n744\n00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:07.040\nthat you got from\n\n745\n00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:10.560\nyour parents to do the right things, and the right things happen. It seems to\n\n746\n00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:11.600\nbe a big philosophy of\n\n747\n00:41:11.600 --> 00:41:17.150\nyours. Yeah, I mean, I love what Fred Ridley, Chairman Ridley, did creating the\n\n748\n00:41:17.150 --> 00:41:18.560\nAugusta National\n\n749\n00:41:18.560 --> 00:41:24.020\nWomen's Amateur. That event in just such a short period of time has become, I\n\n750\n00:41:24.020 --> 00:41:28.080\nmean, it was again,\n\n751\n00:41:28.080 --> 00:41:35.160\nkind of like a duh moment. Why didn't we think of this before? It's great. A\n\n752\n00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:36.160\nlot of great stuff.\n\n753\n00:41:37.520 --> 00:41:42.760\nYou obviously know as much about golf as most people, whatever could possibly\n\n754\n00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:43.520\nknow.\n\n755\n00:41:43.520 --> 00:41:49.120\nWhen you look at the PGA and Live, what do you think the learning is there from\n\n756\n00:41:49.120 --> 00:41:50.160\na leadership\n\n757\n00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:55.330\nperspective? Well, we just sat down with Greg Norman for our show. Boy, I think\n\n758\n00:41:55.330 --> 00:41:56.080\nthere's a lot to\n\n759\n00:41:56.080 --> 00:42:03.340\nbe learned. From the beginning, my opinion is, I think it was a mistake for the\n\n760\n00:42:03.340 --> 00:42:04.720\ntour, not to at\n\n761\n00:42:04.720 --> 00:42:09.890\nleast hear them out, see what they had in mind. A lot of this has happened\n\n762\n00:42:09.890 --> 00:42:10.960\nbehind closed doors,\n\n763\n00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:23.600\nso it's hard to know what was and wasn't said. But I think it's clear that the\n\n764\n00:42:23.600 --> 00:42:24.640\nexistence of Live\n\n765\n00:42:24.640 --> 00:42:30.810\nkind of moved the PGA tour to a different place. We'll see what that means. We\n\n766\n00:42:30.810 --> 00:42:32.080\n'll see if that has\n\n767\n00:42:32.080 --> 00:42:37.920\nbeen good for the game or not. Personally, I think where the PGA tour seems to\n\n768\n00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.400\nbe headed,\n\n769\n00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:44.050\nagain, just my opinion, is the right place. I mean, David, you remember when we\n\n770\n00:42:44.050 --> 00:42:45.760\nwere younger that\n\n771\n00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:54.230\ngolf, the PGA tour golf started in January, ended in August. And again, I've\n\n772\n00:42:54.230 --> 00:42:56.000\nsaid this so many times\n\n773\n00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.540\nin the last couple of weeks, but I wasn't a very good student in terms of math\n\n774\n00:43:00.540 --> 00:43:01.440\nand quantitative\n\n775\n00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:07.360\nanalysis. This is not exactly my forte. But I always thought that to make\n\n776\n00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:08.480\nsomething more valuable,\n\n777\n00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:13.050\nyou make less of it, not more of it. And I think that it was a big mistake for\n\n778\n00:43:13.050 --> 00:43:14.080\nthe tour to expand\n\n779\n00:43:14.080 --> 00:43:19.250\nto the degree that it did in the 1990s. I get why they did it. They had a\n\n780\n00:43:19.250 --> 00:43:21.280\nunique asset, Tiger Woods.\n\n781\n00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:26.450\nAnytime he showed up at a tournament, it meant massive television ratings. And\n\n782\n00:43:26.450 --> 00:43:29.760\nI think they're\n\n783\n00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:36.800\nheading back to a more sensible place. And I think Ryan Rollap is really an\n\n784\n00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:37.520\ninteresting guy.\n\n785\n00:43:37.520 --> 00:43:42.720\nOne of the things that I think that he said that I think really is refreshing\n\n786\n00:43:42.720 --> 00:43:43.760\nis that they\n\n787\n00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:48.930\nwon't be a slave to history, that they want to make sure that everything is\n\n788\n00:43:48.930 --> 00:43:50.240\ngoing to be considered\n\n789\n00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:55.040\nas potentially possible. They're going to do whatever is best for the game.\n\n790\n00:43:55.040 --> 00:43:55.360\nThey're going to\n\n791\n00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.330\nrespect the traditions of the game, but not be slave to them. And I think that\n\n792\n00:43:59.330 --> 00:44:00.160\n's a really good\n\n793\n00:44:00.160 --> 00:44:05.330\nperspective. You know, the mission is before you've received multiple Emmys and\n\n794\n00:44:05.330 --> 00:44:05.840\nsignificant\n\n795\n00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:11.010\nrecognition for your work. When you get awards, what does it do or not do for\n\n796\n00:44:11.010 --> 00:44:12.640\nyour psyche? How\n\n797\n00:44:12.640 --> 00:44:16.380\nimportant is it? You know, maybe when I was younger, it meant a lot. When I\n\n798\n00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:16.960\nthink back,\n\n799\n00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:29.700\nthere is one award that I've gotten that kind of stood out. And I won an Emmy\n\n800\n00:44:29.700 --> 00:44:31.440\nonce for writing.\n\n801\n00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:38.720\nAnd all of my heroes, the people I looked up to were writers, at least in this\n\n802\n00:44:38.720 --> 00:44:39.200\nindustry,\n\n803\n00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:43.430\nJack Whitaker, Jim McKay, Dick Schapp, a guy named Judd Rose, who I was a\n\n804\n00:44:43.430 --> 00:44:44.560\nproducer for.\n\n805\n00:44:45.120 --> 00:44:52.400\nYou know, I admired writers. So to me, and it doesn't really mean anything, you\n\n806\n00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:52.480\nknow,\n\n807\n00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:57.100\nas long as you try your hardest and you do your best work, I think that all of\n\n808\n00:44:57.100 --> 00:44:57.680\nthat stuff\n\n809\n00:44:57.680 --> 00:45:02.960\ndoesn't matter. Is it better to win than not win? I suppose so. But to me, that\n\n810\n00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:04.720\nof whatever\n\n811\n00:45:04.720 --> 00:45:11.590\nrecognition I've ever had, that one to me really meant something because it\n\n812\n00:45:11.590 --> 00:45:12.880\nmade me feel like I was,\n\n813\n00:45:13.600 --> 00:45:19.200\nat least in the conversation with people who I admired, really good, thoughtful\n\n814\n00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:20.240\nwriters who\n\n815\n00:45:20.240 --> 00:45:25.760\norganized their thoughts and presented them in a way that made sense. You know,\n\n816\n00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:26.480\nthis has been so\n\n817\n00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.980\nmuch fun, Jimmy. I want to have a little bit more with my lightning round of\n\n818\n00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:29.760\nquestions. Are you\n\n819\n00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:34.960\nready? I'm ready. The three words that best describe you. Energetic, impatient,\n\n820\n00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.600\nloving.\n\n821\n00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:40.720\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Wouldn't\n\n822\n00:45:40.720 --> 00:45:41.200\nit just be\n\n823\n00:45:41.200 --> 00:45:44.940\nfascinating to know what it's like to be the president of the United States\n\n824\n00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:46.080\njust for a day?\n\n825\n00:45:46.080 --> 00:45:49.970\nAnd I'm not talking about this president, the former president, or anyone\n\n826\n00:45:49.970 --> 00:45:51.120\nthrough history.\n\n827\n00:45:51.120 --> 00:45:56.320\nBut wouldn't it just be fascinating to understand what it's like from the\n\n828\n00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:58.880\npressures and the experience?\n\n829\n00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:04.050\nI mean, I think that'd be wild. Your biggest pet peeve. Okay, I got a lot of\n\n830\n00:46:04.050 --> 00:46:05.120\nthem, but I gotta\n\n831\n00:46:05.120 --> 00:46:11.280\nshare this one. Okay, it's a language pet peeve. It makes me crazy when I hear\n\n832\n00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.560\npeople use the word\n\n833\n00:46:12.560 --> 00:46:19.430\nlike constantly, when they're talking like, you know, like this, I saw him and\n\n834\n00:46:19.430 --> 00:46:20.320\nhe like said this to\n\n835\n00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:24.430\nme and I like didn't like that. I want to tear my hair out. And the other one\n\n836\n00:46:24.430 --> 00:46:25.760\nis there's a specific\n\n837\n00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:32.960\npiece of language that I, it's a big pet peeve with me. People who use the word\n\n838\n00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:39.830\nreticent as a synonym for the word reluctant. I'm not going to go any further\n\n839\n00:46:39.830 --> 00:46:40.880\nthan that. They\n\n840\n00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.670\nare two very different words. If you care at all, just look it up. They're not\n\n841\n00:46:45.670 --> 00:46:46.320\nthe same. They\n\n842\n00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:53.580\ndon't mean the same thing. Who would play you in a movie? Seth Rogan. A story\n\n843\n00:46:53.580 --> 00:46:54.880\nyou almost didn't tell\n\n844\n00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:01.760\nbut are glad you did. That story I mentioned before from the Paris Olympics,\n\n845\n00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:08.860\nthe most fulfilling thing I've ever done. One Olympic moment that always gives\n\n846\n00:47:08.860 --> 00:47:09.520\nyou chills.\n\n847\n00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:21.680\n2002, Salt Lake City Olympics, six months after 9/11, I was given the honor of\n\n848\n00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:23.120\ndoing the interview\n\n849\n00:47:23.120 --> 00:47:27.640\nwith the person or people who were to light the Olympic flame. I remember\n\n850\n00:47:27.640 --> 00:47:28.720\nstanding at the top of\n\n851\n00:47:28.720 --> 00:47:34.070\nthe stadium in Salt Lake City, watching the torch, I'm getting chills right now\n\n852\n00:47:34.070 --> 00:47:35.280\n, watching that torch\n\n853\n00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:39.610\nascend the stairs. And it was the miracle on ice team who lit the flame. And I\n\n854\n00:47:39.610 --> 00:47:40.640\nlooked to my left\n\n855\n00:47:40.640 --> 00:47:44.200\nand I looked to my right and here were all these American heroes who meant so\n\n856\n00:47:44.200 --> 00:47:45.360\nmuch to our country,\n\n857\n00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:50.530\nsix months after 9/11, wearing their jerseys and peering around the corner. And\n\n858\n00:47:50.530 --> 00:47:51.440\nthe flame got out\n\n859\n00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:54.990\nthere and they all ran out and came together and lit the flame. And I did the\n\n860\n00:47:54.990 --> 00:47:55.520\ninterview with\n\n861\n00:47:55.520 --> 00:48:02.780\nMike Arusioni and Jim Craig. That to me was just such an honor and such a\n\n862\n00:48:02.780 --> 00:48:04.960\nmoment. It's just so\n\n863\n00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:10.130\nmeaningful to me. Of the books you've written, which is the most special and\n\n864\n00:48:10.130 --> 00:48:12.080\nwhy? It's like asking\n\n865\n00:48:12.080 --> 00:48:17.920\nfor your favorite children. I just finished writing a novel, which is yet to be\n\n866\n00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:18.800\npublished.\n\n867\n00:48:19.600 --> 00:48:25.810\nThat to me was I think that's been a lot of fun. I think my first book and it\n\n868\n00:48:25.810 --> 00:48:27.440\nwas the book called\n\n869\n00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.960\nBreaking the Slump, which I started out writing a book about golf and ended up\n\n870\n00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:31.600\nbeing a book\n\n871\n00:48:31.600 --> 00:48:35.760\nabout how successful people handle adversity. It was a bunch of golfers,\n\n872\n00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:37.680\nPresident Bush 41\n\n873\n00:48:37.680 --> 00:48:42.850\ndid a chapter with me. But it was my first book. And the fact that I actually\n\n874\n00:48:42.850 --> 00:48:44.880\ncould do it was\n\n875\n00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:48.800\nreally meaningful. It's funny. I remember calling my sister. I'm very close to\n\n876\n00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:49.920\none of my sisters.\n\n877\n00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.120\nAnd I said to her, Nancy, I'm going to write a book and there was silence on\n\n878\n00:48:53.120 --> 00:48:53.760\nthe other end of\n\n879\n00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:56.990\nthe line. And she said, I think mom and dad would have been really happy if\n\n880\n00:48:56.990 --> 00:48:57.920\nthey knew that you had\n\n881\n00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:03.760\njust read a book. So anyway, my first book. What's something you've been\n\n882\n00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.200\ncurious about lately that\n\n883\n00:49:05.200 --> 00:49:09.450\nhas absolutely nothing to do with anything that you do at work? Cooking and\n\n884\n00:49:09.450 --> 00:49:11.760\nguitar playing. Those\n\n885\n00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:16.930\nare the two things that I cooking I love to do. And that's because I love to\n\n886\n00:49:16.930 --> 00:49:17.920\neat guitar playing.\n\n887\n00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:25.180\nI just I love music. I really love music. And, you know, in my fantasy, you\n\n888\n00:49:25.180 --> 00:49:26.000\nknow, my dreams,\n\n889\n00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:30.580\nI'm a good guitar player. But that's really not the case. What's the one thing\n\n890\n00:49:30.580 --> 00:49:31.680\nyou do just for you?\n\n891\n00:49:32.720 --> 00:49:40.100\nI walk with my dog. I have a yellow lab. His name is buddy. He's seven years\n\n892\n00:49:40.100 --> 00:49:42.080\nold. And when I need\n\n893\n00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:47.580\nto clear my head, buddy and I go on long walks usually around six miles. And I\n\n894\n00:49:47.580 --> 00:49:50.320\ndon't like to walk\n\n895\n00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:54.480\nwith other people. Sometimes I'll listen to a podcast. I'll probably listen to\n\n896\n00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:55.040\nthis one on my\n\n897\n00:49:55.040 --> 00:49:59.170\nnext one next walk. But a lot of times it's just to clear my head. And, you\n\n898\n00:49:59.170 --> 00:50:01.120\nknow, I do that just\n\n899\n00:50:01.120 --> 00:50:03.440\nbecause it makes me feel good. It's really just self-indulgent.\n\n900\n00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:07.600\nBesides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?\n\n901\n00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:08.800\nThese days my sanity.\n\n902\n00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:12.480\nIf I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n903\n00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:20.050\nSteely Dan, the Beatles, the Almond Brothers, classical music, bluegrass, and\n\n904\n00:50:20.050 --> 00:50:20.480\nnews.\n\n905\n00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.800\nWhat's something about you a few people would know?\n\n906\n00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.160\nWell, I don't know if this qualifies. But one time, I mean, I've done so much\n\n907\n00:50:28.160 --> 00:50:28.880\nwork in golf,\n\n908\n00:50:28.880 --> 00:50:32.520\nI think I once was in an airport and somebody said to me, \"Hey, love your work\n\n909\n00:50:32.520 --> 00:50:33.280\n.\" And I said\n\n910\n00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:37.130\nwhat I always say, which is, \"Hey, thanks so much for watching.\" And the guy\n\n911\n00:50:37.130 --> 00:50:37.600\nsays,\n\n912\n00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:40.000\n\"But, you know, I was looking it up. What years did you play on tour?\"\n\n913\n00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:45.680\nSo apparently, you know, he certainly didn't know that I...\n\n914\n00:50:45.680 --> 00:50:50.720\nThat is not the level of my skill. I'll just leave it at that.\n\n915\n00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:53.920\nAll right. We're out of the lightning round. There are just a few more\n\n916\n00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:54.880\nquestions and I'll\n\n917\n00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:58.800\nwrap this up. You know, you mentioned your book that you wrote about, your\n\n918\n00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.160\nfirst book about adversity,\n\n919\n00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:04.960\nso how leaders handle adversity. What's the biggest thing you learned from\n\n920\n00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:05.600\nwriting that book\n\n921\n00:51:05.600 --> 00:51:11.640\nabout that topic? Yeah. Listen, everybody's got, you know, adversity in their\n\n922\n00:51:11.640 --> 00:51:13.280\nlives. It takes\n\n923\n00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:19.200\ndifferent forms. I remember, you know, some of the people I talked to had\n\n924\n00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:21.360\nchallenges. One of my\n\n925\n00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:25.680\nfavorite stories from the book was Scott Ver Plank. You know, he had... I mean,\n\n926\n00:51:25.680 --> 00:51:26.640\nhe was a...\n\n927\n00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:31.810\nHe won a professional tournament as an amateur and he was going to be the next\n\n928\n00:51:31.810 --> 00:51:32.480\nbig thing,\n\n929\n00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:38.640\nbut Scott had a bunch of physical challenges. He is diabetic. But more than\n\n930\n00:51:38.640 --> 00:51:39.440\nthat, he had some\n\n931\n00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:45.120\nissues with his elbow and his shoulder or elbow and his arm. I think that\n\n932\n00:51:45.120 --> 00:51:47.920\nchallenges come in all\n\n933\n00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:55.180\nforms. Listen, you can just roll over and surrender or you can fight. And I\n\n934\n00:51:55.180 --> 00:51:55.680\nthink that,\n\n935\n00:51:55.680 --> 00:52:00.220\nyou know, again, it's easy for me to say knock wood that things are relatively\n\n936\n00:52:00.220 --> 00:52:00.960\nokay with me,\n\n937\n00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:06.720\nbut you got to fight. You got to fight. You know, Jimmy, I just want to say\n\n938\n00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:07.360\nthis personally,\n\n939\n00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:14.030\nyou know, it meant a great deal to me when you wrote that piece about me\n\n940\n00:52:14.030 --> 00:52:15.840\nwinning the Shinnecock\n\n941\n00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:20.000\none of my favorite stories, David. I'm a story guy. You captured it beautifully\n\n942\n00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:20.000\n,\n\n943\n00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:23.600\nat least from my perspective. I mean, I don't know if anybody else thought so,\n\n944\n00:52:23.600 --> 00:52:24.640\nbut what\n\n945\n00:52:24.640 --> 00:52:29.000\nare moments like that, you know, where you're telling someone else a story mean\n\n946\n00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:30.400\nto you at this\n\n947\n00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:34.410\nstage in your career? I mean, you know, I'm a nobody, obviously, but you found\n\n948\n00:52:34.410 --> 00:52:35.360\na story there.\n\n949\n00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:41.820\nMy wife always says that I don't talk to people. I interview them. I'm just,\n\n950\n00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:42.880\nyou know, I should\n\n951\n00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:46.400\nhave, when going back to what you said before about a word about myself,\n\n952\n00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.080\nanother one is curious.\n\n953\n00:52:48.080 --> 00:52:54.440\nI am just curious. I want to know about people. I'm interested to hear their\n\n954\n00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:55.760\nstories. And\n\n955\n00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:03.130\nthat is not an affectation. That's just me. I, and I think that for better or\n\n956\n00:53:03.130 --> 00:53:03.440\nworse,\n\n957\n00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:09.120\nI kind of landed in the right place because, you know, what I do for a living\n\n958\n00:53:09.120 --> 00:53:10.240\nkind of satisfies\n\n959\n00:53:10.240 --> 00:53:15.630\nthat Jones and me. I'm curious about people and their stories. And I'm kind of\n\n960\n00:53:15.630 --> 00:53:16.400\nthrilled\n\n961\n00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.500\nwhen I hear them. I mean, your story about, you know, the oldest guy to ever\n\n962\n00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:21.440\nwin the club\n\n963\n00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:26.010\nchampionship at Shinnecock, I was fascinated by that. And, you know, not only\n\n964\n00:53:26.010 --> 00:53:27.520\nthat, but, you know,\n\n965\n00:53:27.520 --> 00:53:30.180\nthe fellow you beat who'd won the championship a couple of times is a good\n\n966\n00:53:30.180 --> 00:53:30.960\nfriend of mine.\n\n967\n00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:38.240\nAnd I just, I am always, I always feel like in life I'm at a cocktail party\n\n968\n00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:45.750\nand listening to people. I am very, very wary of people who don't listen. I\n\n969\n00:53:45.750 --> 00:53:47.840\nheard something\n\n970\n00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:55.390\ngenius the other day. Some people are listening. Some people are just waiting\n\n971\n00:53:55.390 --> 00:53:55.840\nto talk.\n\n972\n00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:03.760\nJust think about that for a second. You know, listening is an active skill. You\n\n973\n00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:03.920\nknow,\n\n974\n00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:07.840\nsome people, you know, when you have a conversation with them, you got to get\n\n975\n00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.640\nthe feeling like they\n\n976\n00:54:08.640 --> 00:54:14.480\njust can't wait to talk. And then there are other people who they're listening,\n\n977\n00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:15.440\nthey're actually\n\n978\n00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.960\nlistening. And I just think we all need to listen more. What do you see as your\n\n979\n00:54:19.960 --> 00:54:21.040\nunfinished business\n\n980\n00:54:21.040 --> 00:54:27.080\nnow, Jimmy? We just started this new company, Big Swing Media. And I am the\n\n981\n00:54:27.080 --> 00:54:28.000\nchief operating\n\n982\n00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:34.480\nofficer. And I have a partner in he and I have launched this new business. And\n\n983\n00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:35.680\nif you would have\n\n984\n00:54:35.680 --> 00:54:38.730\ntold me that I was going to do something like this at this point in my life, I\n\n985\n00:54:38.730 --> 00:54:40.240\nwould have never thought\n\n986\n00:54:40.240 --> 00:54:44.200\nso. But this is something that I'm passionate about. It's all about the\n\n987\n00:54:44.200 --> 00:54:45.440\nbusiness side of golf,\n\n988\n00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:50.780\nwhich we really feel like nobody's been covering. And I am working with some\n\n989\n00:54:50.780 --> 00:54:52.720\namazing people. And\n\n990\n00:54:52.720 --> 00:54:58.230\nI feel a tremendous responsibility to them to make this thing successful. And\n\n991\n00:54:58.230 --> 00:55:00.080\nso my unfinished\n\n992\n00:55:00.080 --> 00:55:06.480\nbusiness right now is to make the Big Swing as good as it can be.\n\n993\n00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:11.680\nLast question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be\n\n994\n00:55:11.680 --> 00:55:12.400\na better leader?\n\n995\n00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:17.600\nI would just say, David, there are hard decisions that need to be made a lot of\n\n996\n00:55:17.600 --> 00:55:19.440\ntimes. But I think\n\n997\n00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:24.790\ncompassion goes a long way. And again, I get that. I'd like to think I get that\n\n998\n00:55:24.790 --> 00:55:25.360\nfrom my\n\n999\n00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:30.980\nparents that time I spent with Mark Messier. I mean, that guy was fierce as a\n\n1000\n00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:31.760\nplayer. I mean,\n\n1001\n00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:38.630\nyou still look at him today and he's a little scary. But I can't tell you. And\n\n1002\n00:55:38.630 --> 00:55:39.280\nagain, you know\n\n1003\n00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:49.280\nthe guy. He is all about the team and supporting the people that he works with\n\n1004\n00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:50.960\nso that together,\n\n1005\n00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:55.920\nyou know, greater things can happen. And I think there's really something. I\n\n1006\n00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:56.720\nthink there's something\n\n1007\n00:55:56.720 --> 00:56:01.450\nthere. Jimmy, there's obviously a lot there with you. You're a hell of a good\n\n1008\n00:56:01.450 --> 00:56:03.200\nguy. You're so talented\n\n1009\n00:56:03.200 --> 00:56:09.040\nand just a pleasure to be with. And I look forward to being with you soon and,\n\n1010\n00:56:09.040 --> 00:56:09.120\nyou know,\n\n1011\n00:56:09.120 --> 00:56:12.660\nhopefully getting to play around a golf this year. That'd be fun. David, listen\n\n1012\n00:56:12.660 --> 00:56:13.120\n, this was\n\n1013\n00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:18.280\nthis was a lot of fun. I love talking to you. I love hearing about what you've\n\n1014\n00:56:18.280 --> 00:56:18.400\ndone and\n\n1015\n00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.320\nlearning about what's next. So we'll tee it up soon.\n\n1016\n00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:33.010\nDavid, what an amazing episode to air right before the Olympics. And believe it\n\n1017\n00:56:33.010 --> 00:56:33.600\nor not,\n\n1018\n00:56:33.600 --> 00:56:38.120\njust two weeks ago, I was actually in Cortina, Italy, skiing down the very\n\n1019\n00:56:38.120 --> 00:56:38.960\nslopes that some of\n\n1020\n00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:43.280\nthe Olympic skiers will be skiing down in competition. The only difference is\n\n1021\n00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:44.960\nthey didn't fall down\n\n1022\n00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.610\nall along the way, right? I knew it was covered. I knew it was such a softball.\n\n1023\n00:56:49.610 --> 00:56:51.040\nI knew it was\n\n1024\n00:56:51.040 --> 00:56:55.260\nthat was an easy one. Yes. You know, by the way, you know, I actually, I went\n\n1025\n00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.920\nthe Alberville Olympics\n\n1026\n00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:04.510\nin France in 1992, Winter Olympics. And sports illustrated took me because I\n\n1027\n00:57:04.510 --> 00:57:05.920\nwas running marketing\n\n1028\n00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:11.600\nat the Pepsi Cola company. I remember skiing to the events because they had\n\n1029\n00:57:11.600 --> 00:57:13.280\nspecial access,\n\n1030\n00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.510\nyou know, where we could actually ski to the events. Now that is going to the\n\n1031\n00:57:17.510 --> 00:57:19.280\nOlympics in style.\n\n1032\n00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.600\nDoesn't happen these days. Doesn't happen these days. But it was great. You\n\n1033\n00:57:23.600 --> 00:57:23.840\nknow,\n\n1034\n00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:27.350\nthere's so many great moments that I think back with the Olympics, I was able\n\n1035\n00:57:27.350 --> 00:57:28.000\nto attend. I've\n\n1036\n00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:32.960\nbeen fortunate enough to be able to go to a few, but I'll never forget the one\n\n1037\n00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:33.840\nin the United States\n\n1038\n00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:39.010\nin Atlanta, you know, when Muhammad Ali lit the torch, you know, and he made it\n\n1039\n00:57:39.010 --> 00:57:40.160\nup there somehow.\n\n1040\n00:57:40.160 --> 00:57:45.880\nOkay. And, you know, I know all the organizers behind that event had a lot of\n\n1041\n00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:46.640\nconcern about\n\n1042\n00:57:46.640 --> 00:57:50.620\nwhether it could be pulled off. But somehow this guy, one of the greatest\n\n1043\n00:57:50.620 --> 00:57:52.000\nchampions to ever\n\n1044\n00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:57.240\nparticipate in any, any sport, you know, had the, had the strength and the\n\n1045\n00:57:57.240 --> 00:57:58.880\nstamina and the desire\n\n1046\n00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:04.480\nto light that torch and, and it's inspired people all over the world.\n\n1047\n00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:08.640\nThe Olympics just makes me feel good. I remember I was a gymnast when I was\n\n1048\n00:58:08.640 --> 00:58:09.200\nyounger,\n\n1049\n00:58:09.200 --> 00:58:11.760\nand I will never forget watching. Another one of your great sports.\n\n1050\n00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:21.030\nExactly. Allow me to continue. I'll never forget watching Dominique Luciano on\n\n1051\n00:58:21.030 --> 00:58:21.520\nthe balance\n\n1052\n00:58:21.520 --> 00:58:25.310\nbeam. I will truly never forget. I thought I was going to be her one day. And\n\n1053\n00:58:25.310 --> 00:58:26.400\nthen just like your\n\n1054\n00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:32.330\nMLB career, my professional gymnastics career also went to die. But it just\n\n1055\n00:58:32.330 --> 00:58:33.440\nmakes you feel good.\n\n1056\n00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:37.660\nAnd I'm so glad that we have Jimmy on the show this week because his voice is\n\n1057\n00:58:37.660 --> 00:58:38.960\nsomewhat synonymous\n\n1058\n00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.920\nwith the Olympics. And I'm so excited to see everything unfold.\n\n1059\n00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:46.000\nBut David, in our debrief today, what I want to do is also get everyone in the\n\n1060\n00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:46.800\nOlympic spirit,\n\n1061\n00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:50.650\nbut give our listeners some really tangible things that they can take away from\n\n1062\n00:58:50.650 --> 00:58:50.800\nthis\n\n1063\n00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:54.650\nconversation so that they can level up their leadership and, and just show up\n\n1064\n00:58:54.650 --> 00:58:55.600\nin a more positive\n\n1065\n00:58:55.600 --> 00:58:59.050\nway. The first thing I want to talk about, David, is a really interesting\n\n1066\n00:58:59.050 --> 00:59:00.080\nconcept that you and Jimmy\n\n1067\n00:59:00.080 --> 00:59:04.400\ntalked about in the episode. He mentioned that, you know, sometimes the answer\n\n1068\n00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:05.280\nto your problems\n\n1069\n00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:10.450\nis just to try less hard. And you mentioned when you're at Young Brands, you\n\n1070\n00:59:10.450 --> 00:59:11.280\ntalked to your teams\n\n1071\n00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:15.800\nabout this concept of untrying and the importance of that. Explain what that is\n\n1072\n00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:16.960\nand why leaders\n\n1073\n00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:20.550\nshould encourage that. Well, I think any performance coach will tell you that\n\n1074\n00:59:20.550 --> 00:59:21.600\nif you think about the\n\n1075\n00:59:21.600 --> 00:59:26.760\noutcome, that'll get in the way of the result because you're, you're, you're\n\n1076\n00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:27.600\ntrying so hard to,\n\n1077\n00:59:27.600 --> 00:59:33.680\nto get the outcome that you desire, that you forget about what you have to do\n\n1078\n00:59:33.680 --> 00:59:34.880\nto get the outcome.\n\n1079\n00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:37.950\nYou know, you're much better off to follow the process that's going to get you\n\n1080\n00:59:37.950 --> 00:59:38.800\nthe result\n\n1081\n00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:45.810\nthan, than trying so hard to go from A to B. I'm sure you've seen people when\n\n1082\n00:59:45.810 --> 00:59:47.040\nthey get presentations\n\n1083\n00:59:47.040 --> 00:59:51.720\nand they're trying so hard to do a great job. You almost feel it for them. You,\n\n1084\n00:59:51.720 --> 00:59:52.480\nyou, you, you kind\n\n1085\n00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:57.050\nof, they, they make you feel uneasy because you know they're struggling so hard\n\n1086\n00:59:57.050 --> 00:59:57.920\nversus someone\n\n1087\n00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:01.280\nwho gets up there who's done the homework and it's only focused on\n\n1088\n01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:02.960\ncommunicating their message\n\n1089\n01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:07.320\nto you. And they're, they're, they're not trying to impress. They're just\n\n1090\n01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:09.120\ntrying to communicate. And,\n\n1091\n01:00:09.120 --> 01:00:14.700\nand in that case, that person is, is untrying. And, you know, that's what we\n\n1092\n01:00:14.700 --> 01:00:15.520\nmean by that. And,\n\n1093\n01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:19.880\nyou know, I think sometimes as a leader, words can be very powerful. So when\n\n1094\n01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:20.960\nyou say untried,\n\n1095\n01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:25.370\npeople go, well, what do you mean? Untried? Well, you know, then you can\n\n1096\n01:00:25.370 --> 01:00:27.520\nexplain what you mean by it.\n\n1097\n01:00:27.520 --> 01:00:33.190\nAnd that's a concept that we used all across young brands all around the world.\n\n1098\n01:00:33.190 --> 01:00:34.160\nAnd it wasn't that\n\n1099\n01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:38.710\nwe didn't want to have effort. We wanted people putting the effort in, but we\n\n1100\n01:00:38.710 --> 01:00:39.680\ndidn't want them to\n\n1101\n01:00:39.680 --> 01:00:44.200\ntry so hard that to keep them from performing at their very best. It's so true.\n\n1102\n01:00:44.200 --> 01:00:45.280\nWhen you cling so\n\n1103\n01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:49.160\nhard to what you want the outcome to be, it usually is the thing that gets in\n\n1104\n01:00:49.160 --> 01:00:49.840\nthe way of\n\n1105\n01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:53.690\nyou performing at your best, whether you were an Olympic athlete or just trying\n\n1106\n01:00:53.690 --> 01:00:54.880\nto win in business.\n\n1107\n01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:59.120\nYeah. And in sports, you know, how many times you've read the story about the\n\n1108\n01:00:59.120 --> 01:01:00.480\nguy or the woman who\n\n1109\n01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:04.560\nhas a great career, and they get into playoff games and they don't perform.\n\n1110\n01:01:04.560 --> 01:01:06.320\nThey don't score\n\n1111\n01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:10.890\ntheir 25 points a game anymore. Because they're trying so hard to perform like\n\n1112\n01:01:10.890 --> 01:01:11.680\nthey did in a\n\n1113\n01:01:11.680 --> 01:01:16.870\nregular season. And it keeps them from the peak performance you need to have at\n\n1114\n01:01:16.870 --> 01:01:17.680\nthe right time of\n\n1115\n01:01:17.680 --> 01:01:21.590\nthe year. Another concept that Jimmy talks about in the episode that I just\n\n1116\n01:01:21.590 --> 01:01:22.880\nlove, he says it doesn't\n\n1117\n01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:27.440\ncost you anything as a leader to make someone feel good about themselves. And I\n\n1118\n01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:28.400\nlove that concept,\n\n1119\n01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:32.140\nbut for leaders, that's a pretty hard thing to measure. I mean, making someone\n\n1120\n01:01:32.140 --> 01:01:32.800\nfeel good about\n\n1121\n01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:36.710\nthemselves is pretty intangible and almost a little bit squishy. But I believe\n\n1122\n01:01:36.710 --> 01:01:37.600\nthat it can have a\n\n1123\n01:01:37.600 --> 01:01:41.860\nreal tangible impact in creating a culture where people feel like they really\n\n1124\n01:01:41.860 --> 01:01:42.560\nmatter.\n\n1125\n01:01:42.560 --> 01:01:47.280\nHow do you think about that? Well, you know, I'm going to tell a story since\n\n1126\n01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:48.400\nJimmy Roberts is such\n\n1127\n01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:53.200\na great storyteller, okay? And it's not a story that happened to me, but it's a\n\n1128\n01:01:53.200 --> 01:01:54.080\nstory that someone\n\n1129\n01:01:54.080 --> 01:02:01.160\ntold me. And Klaus Kleinfeld, who, you know, ran Alcoa and Siemens, and you\n\n1130\n01:02:01.160 --> 01:02:03.280\nknow, he used to work late,\n\n1131\n01:02:03.280 --> 01:02:07.850\nand, you know, he was out in the elevator and he was going in the elevator to\n\n1132\n01:02:07.850 --> 01:02:09.040\ngo down. And I think\n\n1133\n01:02:09.040 --> 01:02:14.270\nhe met one of the guys that, you know, cleaned up the offices at night, and he\n\n1134\n01:02:14.270 --> 01:02:15.280\nknew him by his\n\n1135\n01:02:15.280 --> 01:02:21.040\nfirst name, and he always talked to him. And, you know, this guy said to him,\n\n1136\n01:02:21.040 --> 01:02:22.000\nhe said, you know,\n\n1137\n01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:30.830\nyou know, thanks for talking to me. And, and the guy, Klaus goes, what do you\n\n1138\n01:02:30.830 --> 01:02:31.440\nmean? Thanks for\n\n1139\n01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:36.130\ntalking to you. I mean, you're a great guy. And, you know, I enjoy talking. He\n\n1140\n01:02:36.130 --> 01:02:37.520\nsays, he says, well,\n\n1141\n01:02:37.520 --> 01:02:42.050\na lot of people aren't that way. Most people don't see me. They look through me\n\n1142\n01:02:42.050 --> 01:02:44.400\n. That was such a\n\n1143\n01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:49.570\npowerful story for me, because that's what leaders do. Leaders make others feel\n\n1144\n01:02:49.570 --> 01:02:49.920\nseen.\n\n1145\n01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:57.180\nThey make other people feel appreciated. They give them the respect that they\n\n1146\n01:02:57.180 --> 01:02:58.320\ndeserve. They,\n\n1147\n01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:02.500\nyou know, a person told me once, don't look up, don't look down, always look\n\n1148\n01:03:02.500 --> 01:03:03.920\nstraight ahead. You're,\n\n1149\n01:03:03.920 --> 01:03:09.090\nyou're no better than anybody. So never look down. Nobody's better than you. So\n\n1150\n01:03:09.090 --> 01:03:09.760\nnever look up.\n\n1151\n01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:14.930\nJust look people straight in the eye and treat everybody the same, regardless\n\n1152\n01:03:14.930 --> 01:03:16.080\nof what position\n\n1153\n01:03:16.080 --> 01:03:21.290\nthey have. And it doesn't cost you anything as a leader to do that. And, you\n\n1154\n01:03:21.290 --> 01:03:23.200\nknow, another little\n\n1155\n01:03:23.200 --> 01:03:28.680\nstory is Colin Powell. You know, he told me that, you know, he worked in a bott\n\n1156\n01:03:28.680 --> 01:03:29.520\nling plant.\n\n1157\n01:03:29.520 --> 01:03:35.120\nThese former Secretary of State, he worked in a bottling plant, Pepsi bottling\n\n1158\n01:03:35.120 --> 01:03:35.440\nplant,\n\n1159\n01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:39.030\nand he mopped the syrup off the floor all summer long. And at the end of the\n\n1160\n01:03:39.030 --> 01:03:39.840\nend of the summer,\n\n1161\n01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:45.010\nyou know, the guy, the foreman comes up to him and says, son, I've been\n\n1162\n01:03:45.010 --> 01:03:46.160\nwatching you all summer\n\n1163\n01:03:46.160 --> 01:03:50.420\nlong. And you've been making these these four sparkle all when you left the\n\n1164\n01:03:50.420 --> 01:03:52.160\ntheir spickens band,\n\n1165\n01:03:52.160 --> 01:03:56.480\nyou know, really appreciate the great job you did. Okay. And Colin Powell said\n\n1166\n01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:57.200\nthat's when he learned\n\n1167\n01:03:57.200 --> 01:04:02.370\nthe power of recognition, because it says that people are watching. He didn't\n\n1168\n01:04:02.370 --> 01:04:03.120\nknow anybody was\n\n1169\n01:04:03.120 --> 01:04:08.500\nreally watching what he did. And, you know, it doesn't cost you anything when\n\n1170\n01:04:08.500 --> 01:04:09.680\nyou see somebody do\n\n1171\n01:04:09.680 --> 01:04:14.850\nsomething good. And it doesn't cost you anything to recognize them. You know,\n\n1172\n01:04:14.850 --> 01:04:16.560\nyou know, words of\n\n1173\n01:04:16.560 --> 01:04:22.740\naffirmation are powerful. Okay. And, you know, I think it and they can be given\n\n1174\n01:04:22.740 --> 01:04:24.880\naway appropriately\n\n1175\n01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:28.620\nif it's genuine. And I don't think you have to look too hard to find people\n\n1176\n01:04:28.620 --> 01:04:29.520\ndoing good things\n\n1177\n01:04:29.520 --> 01:04:35.050\nin this world. That's so true. I worked for a guy one time who said we had this\n\n1178\n01:04:35.050 --> 01:04:35.920\nhuge office building\n\n1179\n01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:39.440\nwith lots of hallways and lots of rows of desks. And he says, if you're ever at\n\n1180\n01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:39.920\nthe end of the\n\n1181\n01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:42.830\nhallway and someone else is at the other end, a colleague who may not know, and\n\n1182\n01:04:42.830 --> 01:04:43.520\nyou're walking\n\n1183\n01:04:43.520 --> 01:04:47.260\npast each other, never let that moment go by without just saying hi. Because\n\n1184\n01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:48.000\nthink about how\n\n1185\n01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.690\nmany times you want to dodge your head or pretend like you're on your phone or\n\n1186\n01:04:50.690 --> 01:04:51.520\njust not speak to\n\n1187\n01:04:51.520 --> 01:04:55.700\nsomeone. That small interaction can actually go a really long way. And if\n\n1188\n01:04:55.700 --> 01:04:56.880\neverybody's doing that,\n\n1189\n01:04:56.880 --> 01:05:02.960\nit creates the spirit of collaboration and connectedness that really does have\n\n1190\n01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:04.800\nreal impact.\n\n1191\n01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:09.970\nI'm sure I've probably done that in my life, but I can't think of too many\n\n1192\n01:05:09.970 --> 01:05:10.960\ntimes when I have. I mean,\n\n1193\n01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:16.160\nit'd be hard for me to imagine walking by somebody and not saying hi. And I\n\n1194\n01:05:16.160 --> 01:05:17.360\nalways would think very\n\n1195\n01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:22.530\ndifferently about someone who'd walk by me and not say hi. It's sort of like\n\n1196\n01:05:22.530 --> 01:05:23.920\nthe person you wave to,\n\n1197\n01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:27.280\nyou know, when you're driving out in your neighborhood and you wave and they\n\n1198\n01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:29.280\nsee you\n\n1199\n01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:32.240\nwaving them, they don't wave you back and go, what kind of, you know, what is\n\n1200\n01:05:32.240 --> 01:05:34.560\nthat guy? And, you know,\n\n1201\n01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:42.480\nbut that person is the kind of person that doesn't necessarily look to find how\n\n1202\n01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:42.800\nto give\n\n1203\n01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:46.680\npeople the acknowledgement that they deserve. And you know, Jimmy Roberts is a\n\n1204\n01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:47.120\nguy who is\n\n1205\n01:05:47.120 --> 01:05:52.290\nnaturally curious. I mean, he is a broadcaster, a reporter, so he lives on\n\n1206\n01:05:52.290 --> 01:05:53.280\nstories and thinks\n\n1207\n01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:57.040\nconstantly about how to tell them in a way that really captures an audience.\n\n1208\n01:05:57.040 --> 01:05:58.160\nAnd, you know, he says\n\n1209\n01:05:58.160 --> 01:06:02.420\nthe best stories really find him. And I think it's because he says that he's\n\n1210\n01:06:02.420 --> 01:06:03.680\njust a naturally\n\n1211\n01:06:03.680 --> 01:06:08.850\ncurious person. But David, for those people listening who might not consider\n\n1212\n01:06:08.850 --> 01:06:09.040\nthemselves\n\n1213\n01:06:09.040 --> 01:06:14.220\nnaturally curious, what do you think that they can do to find those points of\n\n1214\n01:06:14.220 --> 01:06:14.880\nmeaning in those\n\n1215\n01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:21.020\nstories that really matter? Well, I think what, you know, Jimmy does is number\n\n1216\n01:06:21.020 --> 01:06:22.240\none, he's got the\n\n1217\n01:06:22.240 --> 01:06:28.280\nmindset that has him on the lookout for him. You know, you're looking out to\n\n1218\n01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:29.200\nyou're looking to find\n\n1219\n01:06:29.200 --> 01:06:34.350\nhim. And because you're looking to find him, they come to you. Okay. The other\n\n1220\n01:06:34.350 --> 01:06:34.720\nthing is that\n\n1221\n01:06:34.720 --> 01:06:43.120\ncuriosity means that that you have this insatiable desire to learn new things\n\n1222\n01:06:43.120 --> 01:06:43.600\nand\n\n1223\n01:06:43.600 --> 01:06:48.770\nlearn about people or in the best way to be that is to learn how to ask\n\n1224\n01:06:48.770 --> 01:06:49.760\nquestions.\n\n1225\n01:06:51.120 --> 01:06:58.480\nYou know, one of the best ways to get to know someone is to really ask him\n\n1226\n01:06:58.480 --> 01:06:59.280\nquestions and get\n\n1227\n01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:02.480\nhim talking about themselves. You know, Dale Carnegie said that was the most\n\n1228\n01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:03.120\npowerful thing\n\n1229\n01:07:03.120 --> 01:07:07.120\nyou could do in sales is to learn how to ask questions and get people talking\n\n1230\n01:07:07.120 --> 01:07:07.840\nabout themselves\n\n1231\n01:07:07.840 --> 01:07:10.960\nbecause if they could talk about themselves, they sure as hell like you. Okay.\n\n1232\n01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:12.640\nYeah. And that's\n\n1233\n01:07:12.640 --> 01:07:18.290\nhow you influence people. So, you know, one of the best exercises we ever had\n\n1234\n01:07:18.290 --> 01:07:19.440\nat work when we were\n\n1235\n01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:23.360\nbringing new teams together was we'd have people, you know, sit across the\n\n1236\n01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:24.480\ntable from each other and\n\n1237\n01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:29.940\ntell everybody to tell three things about themselves to the other person. You\n\n1238\n01:07:29.940 --> 01:07:32.560\nknow, that shared\n\n1239\n01:07:32.560 --> 01:07:38.320\nexperience of asking each other that question and then opening yourself up and\n\n1240\n01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:39.120\ngiving three things\n\n1241\n01:07:39.120 --> 01:07:44.290\nabout your life, you know, help people begin to get a bond. And, you know, I\n\n1242\n01:07:44.290 --> 01:07:46.560\nthink that, you know,\n\n1243\n01:07:46.560 --> 01:07:50.720\nlearning how to ask questions is important. And it's becoming one of the things\n\n1244\n01:07:50.720 --> 01:07:51.120\nthat people\n\n1245\n01:07:51.120 --> 01:07:56.290\nare trying to build into their cultures now, particularly when you're dealing\n\n1246\n01:07:56.290 --> 01:07:56.720\nwith AI.\n\n1247\n01:07:56.720 --> 01:08:02.960\nBecause it's not enough just to go to chat GBT. What questions you're going to\n\n1248\n01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:04.000\nask? You know,\n\n1249\n01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:09.170\nhow can you really stimulate, you know, thought and conversation and elevate\n\n1250\n01:08:09.170 --> 01:08:10.240\nyour game by learning\n\n1251\n01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:14.490\nthrough AI? And it's the questions that you ask that are going to be the most\n\n1252\n01:08:14.490 --> 01:08:16.080\nimportant. So,\n\n1253\n01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:21.250\nthe biggest thing I would do is just try to learn how to ask questions. And\n\n1254\n01:08:21.250 --> 01:08:21.760\nthat means\n\n1255\n01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:25.610\nforcing yourself to ask questions and then getting better and better at it so\n\n1256\n01:08:25.610 --> 01:08:26.400\nyou get better and\n\n1257\n01:08:26.400 --> 01:08:31.570\nbetter insights. It's the questions you ask that give you the insights that are\n\n1258\n01:08:31.570 --> 01:08:32.240\ngoing to help you\n\n1259\n01:08:32.240 --> 01:08:37.840\nwin. I think about it specifically around customer feedback. It's actually, it\n\n1260\n01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:38.880\ntakes a good bit of\n\n1261\n01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:42.520\nmental energy to figure out what questions to ask customers in order to glean\n\n1262\n01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:43.360\nthose insights\n\n1263\n01:08:43.360 --> 01:08:46.470\nthat are really going to give you what you need to take action and make\n\n1264\n01:08:46.470 --> 01:08:48.000\nsomething better or improve\n\n1265\n01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:51.940\nyour margins or whatever. So, if you just ask, you know, binary questions, it's\n\n1266\n01:08:51.940 --> 01:08:52.400\nyes or no,\n\n1267\n01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:58.720\nthen it's not going to give you a ton of real meaningful anecdotes to go on.\n\n1268\n01:08:58.720 --> 01:08:59.440\nBut if you\n\n1269\n01:08:59.440 --> 01:09:03.920\nunderstand how to get that insight from them, but the question changes things.\n\n1270\n01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:09.510\nI totally agree with you. You know, that's why I love to do problem detection\n\n1271\n01:09:09.510 --> 01:09:10.400\nstudies because\n\n1272\n01:09:10.400 --> 01:09:14.940\npeople are not very good at telling you what they like, but they're very great\n\n1273\n01:09:14.940 --> 01:09:15.840\nat bitching.\n\n1274\n01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:21.200\nSo, we would always try to ask people, you know, what are the problems? What\n\n1275\n01:09:21.200 --> 01:09:21.760\nare the things you\n\n1276\n01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:26.150\ndislike about a brand? You know, and if we could figure out what the most\n\n1277\n01:09:26.150 --> 01:09:26.880\nimportant\n\n1278\n01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:34.520\nproblem was that occurred most frequently, we'd always find a great consumer\n\n1279\n01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:35.600\ninsight that could\n\n1280\n01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:42.860\nhelp us grow the business. But, you know, so they're a myriad of ways where you\n\n1281\n01:09:42.860 --> 01:09:44.160\ncan get answers,\n\n1282\n01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:48.880\nbut none of them come without having a question. Absolutely. Absolutely, David.\n\n1283\n01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:49.920\nWell, I am so\n\n1284\n01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:53.060\nthrilled for the Olympics. And I'm so thrilled that Jimmy took the time to sit\n\n1285\n01:09:53.060 --> 01:09:53.760\ndown with you\n\n1286\n01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:58.110\nbecause it's just a perfect way to kick off what is sure to be an amazing\n\n1287\n01:09:58.110 --> 01:09:59.520\ncelebration over the next\n\n1288\n01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:03.110\ncouple of weeks. Hope everyone listening enjoys watching the Olympics. And\n\n1289\n01:10:03.110 --> 01:10:04.240\nthank you so much for\n\n1290\n01:10:04.240 --> 01:10:08.550\ntuning in to this episode of How Leaders Lead with David Novak. We will see you\n\n1291\n01:10:08.550 --> 01:10:09.440\nnext week.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL5535959132.mp3","dx_media_id",3378,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-02-05","itunes_episode_id",277,"youtube_id","6a8Ar5Qmr8I","2026-08-19T21:32:21.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with Emmy-winning sports broadcaster Jimmy Roberts and discover how curiosity can help you make better connections.","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/orXym2AzHtitHI2enBsAfIUWuZR8Of8TBag0OkxI.mp3","dx_filename","orXym2AzHtitHI2enBsAfIUWuZR8Of8TBag0OkxI.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","02cTVyvY1c00hmapQLF9KYMWW4LU8jJ54NEBEHqw39BH4","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/3378.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4218453,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/6a8Ar5Qmr8I/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_96":80,"_97":78,"_98":-5,"_31":82,"_33":99,"_100":-5,"_101":84,"_87":88,"_102":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","HpTRnlo2n4wQT00ktZNVvn01qDf7sZdyIZYndfC5XkcyE","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Jimmy","last_name","Roberts","job_title","Emmy Award-winning broadcaster, NBC Sports","Jimmy Roberts, broadcast, sports, entertainment, Olympics, golf, podcast, Masters, Augusta National","external_links","https://x.com/JimmyRobertsNBC,https://x.com/BigSwingMedia_,https://www.nbcsports.com/pressbox/bios/jimmy-roberts,https://www.instagram.com/jimmyrobertsnbc/",0,"image_media_id",3376,3377,"2026-07-20T20:37:06.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/fYohyzkTI0z9Dz5V2Tkv4a2yW2GNKcoBfWSFEOCt.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/EYCcPrmjYrQlZ6tS1G9xCycMCQmFhAfqFffIYkfr.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/263/jimmy-roberts","industry_id",3,"industry",{"_13":123,"_134":135,"_136":138},"industries",[133],"image_media",{"_13":114,"_96":132,"_97":119,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_100":-5,"_101":-5,"_87":-5,"_102":-5},{"_13":115,"_96":131,"_97":120,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_100":-5,"_101":-5,"_87":-5,"_102":-5},"EYCcPrmjYrQlZ6tS1G9xCycMCQmFhAfqFffIYkfr.jpg","fYohyzkTI0z9Dz5V2Tkv4a2yW2GNKcoBfWSFEOCt.jpg",{"_13":123,"_134":135,"_136":137},"name","Sports","pivot",{"_35":36,"_122":123},{"_35":36,"_122":123},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_147":148,"_149":150,"_151":152,"_153":154,"_155":156},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]