[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3217/how-to-drive-change-in-your-organization","id",3217,"title","How to drive change in your organization","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.180\nBut anytime you're trying to make organizational changes a lot, I mean, there's\n\n2\n00:00:02.180 --> 00:00:02.700\nan influence\n\n3\n00:00:02.700 --> 00:00:07.230\nmodel and one of those is role modeling and the other is questions that you can\n\n4\n00:00:07.230 --> 00:00:07.860\nask, right?\n\n5\n00:00:07.860 --> 00:00:11.760\nAnd so people tend and you know this when you were, you know, if you're asking\n\n6\n00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:12.780\na question,\n\n7\n00:00:12.780 --> 00:00:16.020\npeople are going to start to realize it's important, right?\n\n8\n00:00:16.020 --> 00:00:20.380\nThat is one of the, I would say the privileges of leadership.\n\n9\n00:00:20.380 --> 00:00:24.970\nAnd for me, it's every time I get in with a team, first of all, I ask them how\n\n10\n00:00:24.970 --> 00:00:25.620\nthey're\n\n11\n00:00:25.620 --> 00:00:26.620\nusing it.\n\n12\n00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:27.620\nLike, I asked them, well, what did you do?\n\n13\n00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:29.140\nHow'd you come up with this answer?\n\n14\n00:00:29.140 --> 00:00:30.840\nHow'd you use the AI?\n\n15\n00:00:30.840 --> 00:00:32.680\nWhat questions were you asking it?\n\n16\n00:00:32.680 --> 00:00:33.680\nDid you ask it X?\n\n17\n00:00:33.680 --> 00:00:37.390\nDid you, you know, you have to, you have to be intellectually curious, first\n\n18\n00:00:37.390 --> 00:00:38.180\nand foremost,\n\n19\n00:00:38.180 --> 00:00:40.420\nif you want them to be intellectually curious.\n\n20\n00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:44.500\nBe they have to see that you're using it, right?\n\n21\n00:00:44.500 --> 00:00:46.140\nYou know, what are your own experiences?\n\n22\n00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:49.820\nSo I will talk about like how I used it to do X or do I.\n\n23\n00:00:49.820 --> 00:00:53.530\nAnd then, you know, you have to find ways to celebrate whether it's teams or\n\n24\n00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:54.300\nindividuals\n\n25\n00:00:54.300 --> 00:00:58.140\nor do something outstanding to use a technology, which is a little bit of the\n\n26\n00:00:58.140 --> 00:00:58.900\npulpit that you\n\n27\n00:00:58.900 --> 00:01:04.050\nget to sit on to say, again, I don't know, maybe this is just inside my firm,\n\n28\n00:01:04.050 --> 00:01:05.180\nbut inside\n\n29\n00:01:05.180 --> 00:01:10.390\nMcKinsey, you will see if someone of leadership celebrates someone else,\n\n30\n00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:11.700\neveryone starts to\n\n31\n00:01:11.700 --> 00:01:14.220\nsay, well, why did they get celebrated?\n\n32\n00:01:14.220 --> 00:01:15.820\nAnd how do I get celebrated next time?\n\n33\n00:01:15.820 --> 00:01:17.540\nI want to be the one that could celebrate.\n\n34\n00:01:17.540 --> 00:01:18.540\nWhat did they do?\n\n35\n00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:21.840\nAnd you start to watch people follow, especially if they see the same kind of\n\n36\n00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:23.100\ncommon thread\n\n37\n00:01:23.100 --> 00:01:25.260\nof what someone in leadership is celebrating.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",817179,"end_time",902429,"keywords","Change, culture, questions, curiosity, curious, recognition, role model, AI","slug","how-to-drive-change-in-your-organization","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","0098kApJXYDi00qKyrDQ6mABQbVc8RFT9LQt2lEgxBHp4","mux_asset_id","7t3hcJO501qFTLAfTfH3HEL00yKmN1jbEB9lgnByRiakM","leader_id",265,"episode_id",417,"updated_at","2026-02-19T17:13:36.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3217/how-to-drive-change-in-your-organization","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","AI is about growth, not just productivity","ai-is-about-growth-not-just-productivity","Leaders who only see AI through the lens of productivity are missing out. Consider the kinds of growth and new opportunities AI makes possible. That's a lot more fun – and inspiring to your team, too.","summary","

“This is a once-in-a-generation technology transition.”

That’s how Eric Kutcher, Senior Partner and North America Chair at McKinsey & Company describes the AI moment we’re living through. And he should know: he’s spent 28 years coaching the world’s top companies through massive change.

In this episode, Eric breaks down the AI revolution in practical terms, dives deep into what truly makes a team great, and shares a story involving three thousand stress balls that you’ll never forget.

You’ll also learn:

What it means to work with “long term urgency”
How to identify great talent when they have zero experience
The mindset you need to bounce back from a big failure
Two ways you can drive change in your organization

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.920\nHello everyone and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:05.360\nNovak. Today's guest\n\n3\n00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.530\nis Eric Kutcher. He's a senior partner and chair of North America at Mackenzie\n\n4\n00:00:09.530 --> 00:00:10.160\n& Company,\n\n5\n00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.130\nwhich, as most of you know, is one of the largest consulting firms in the world\n\n6\n00:00:14.130 --> 00:00:14.400\n.\n\n7\n00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:19.330\nEric's a renowned expert in AI, and he talks a lot about how this is the most\n\n8\n00:00:19.330 --> 00:00:20.640\ntransformative\n\n9\n00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:25.600\nmoment our generation will get to lead through. He's spent over 28 years\n\n10\n00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.480\ncoaching the world's\n\n11\n00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:30.720\ntop companies through massive change. And in today's episode, you'll get his\n\n12\n00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:32.080\ncoaching and expertise\n\n13\n00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:37.000\naround how you should be utilizing AI, not just for productivity, but for new\n\n14\n00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.000\nrevenue generation\n\n15\n00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:42.310\nand growth. Enjoy this conversation between David and Eric, and I will see you\n\n16\n00:00:42.310 --> 00:00:43.280\nat the debrief.\n\n17\n00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:55.870\nNow, I understand that you've broken quite a few bones over the years. What's\n\n18\n00:00:55.870 --> 00:00:56.960\nthe total up to this\n\n19\n00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:00.350\npoint? I don't even know. I think I stopped counting a long time ago, so I was\n\n20\n00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:01.200\nin nine short\n\n21\n00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:06.160\narm casts. I broke my nose six times, collarbone twice, fingers didn't count,\n\n22\n00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:07.360\ntwo thumb surgeries,\n\n23\n00:01:07.360 --> 00:01:11.470\none knee surgery. I don't even, I think that's as much as I can remember. But I\n\n24\n00:01:11.470 --> 00:01:12.800\nam quite, quite\n\n25\n00:01:12.800 --> 00:01:17.680\nconvinced that if I grew up today and had a file like I did, the Department of\n\n26\n00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:18.320\nFamily Services would\n\n27\n00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:21.760\nsure have come knocking on our door. And every one of those was playing a\n\n28\n00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:22.720\ndifferent sport or doing\n\n29\n00:01:22.720 --> 00:01:28.790\nsomething stupid as a kid. Which bone has the, which broken bone has the best\n\n30\n00:01:28.790 --> 00:01:30.000\nstory behind it?\n\n31\n00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.280\nWhich one has the best? So here's one that's kind of more speaks to me\n\n32\n00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.560\nand who I am and a little bit of my irreverence. But I was a pretty decent\n\n33\n00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.000\nbaseball player back in\n\n34\n00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:43.590\nthe day. There was a man on third base, it was a summer, it was a summer league\n\n35\n00:01:43.590 --> 00:01:44.480\n, a man on third\n\n36\n00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.630\nbase. And for those that know, if the ball is hit to the left side of the\n\n37\n00:01:47.630 --> 00:01:48.800\ninfield, the runner is\n\n38\n00:01:48.800 --> 00:01:52.730\nnot supposed to go and the runner went on contact. And it was a close game,\n\n39\n00:01:52.730 --> 00:01:53.920\nkind of middle to a late\n\n40\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:58.510\npart of the game. And the third baseman froze and like pumped three times. And\n\n41\n00:01:58.510 --> 00:01:59.680\nby the time he got\n\n42\n00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.560\nme the ball, I caught it. And as I went to put my, my throwing him, my non-gl\n\n43\n00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:05.600\nove hand in to hold\n\n44\n00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:09.900\nthe ball so I could take the hit, the kids cleat got in my glove and broke my\n\n45\n00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.520\nthumb in 17 spots.\n\n46\n00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:15.440\nAnd I was really pissed because I dropped the ball and the runner was safe. And\n\n47\n00:02:15.440 --> 00:02:16.160\nso I went to pick up\n\n48\n00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:19.440\nthe ball and I called time out and walked it back out to the pitcher's mount.\n\n49\n00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:20.720\nAnd my thumb was just\n\n50\n00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:24.890\nabsolutely an agony. And so I went back behind home plate and coach said, can\n\n51\n00:02:24.890 --> 00:02:25.440\nyou play? I said,\n\n52\n00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:28.800\nI don't know if I can play, but we're going to try. And sure enough, I went to,\n\n53\n00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:29.440\nI caught the first\n\n54\n00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:32.490\npitch, went to throw and the ball came right out of my hand. And he goes, all\n\n55\n00:02:32.490 --> 00:02:33.360\nright, you're pulling\n\n56\n00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.410\nyou out. And I sat in the dugout, we had a double header. And I just started y\n\n57\n00:02:36.410 --> 00:02:37.360\nanking on my thumb\n\n58\n00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.840\nbecause it looked like it was dislocated. But it turns out it wasn't dislocated\n\n59\n00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:41.680\n, it was broken.\n\n60\n00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:46.240\nSo I didn't play the double header. And again, in kind of who I am, when I got\n\n61\n00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.040\nout of surgery,\n\n62\n00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:51.920\nI made the mold the cast to the bench so I could continue to work out that\n\n63\n00:02:51.920 --> 00:02:52.400\nsummer when I couldn't\n\n64\n00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.490\nplay anymore ball. That says quite a bit about your leadership, I imagine. I\n\n65\n00:02:57.490 --> 00:02:57.920\ndon't know about\n\n66\n00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:02.840\nmy leadership, but about my own stupidity. Yeah, maybe it says you don't really\n\n67\n00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:03.600\ngive up, you know?\n\n68\n00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:09.640\nYou know, there's really so much that I wanted to discuss about your time at\n\n69\n00:03:09.640 --> 00:03:11.120\nMcKinsey in the past\n\n70\n00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:16.040\n28 years you've spent at that phenomenal firm. And the kick things off, you\n\n71\n00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:17.040\nknow, I know that\n\n72\n00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:21.450\nyou're a renowned expert in artificial intelligence. I mean, you know, you\n\n73\n00:03:21.450 --> 00:03:22.640\nwould never tell me that,\n\n74\n00:03:22.640 --> 00:03:26.950\nbut a lot of people have told me that. And every leader today is really trying\n\n75\n00:03:26.950 --> 00:03:28.240\nto figure it out\n\n76\n00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:33.180\nright now. When you strip away all the hype of AI, and everybody's talking\n\n77\n00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:34.640\nabout it, you know,\n\n78\n00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:40.080\nwhat should leaders really understand about AI? So I am definitely not an\n\n79\n00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:41.360\nexpert and I appreciate\n\n80\n00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:44.210\nthe praise, but I am not. There are people that really understand this. What I\n\n81\n00:03:44.210 --> 00:03:45.360\nhave is a lens from\n\n82\n00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.910\ntalking to many, many, many clients and seeing at this moment kind of where we\n\n83\n00:03:49.910 --> 00:03:51.200\nare. I think this\n\n84\n00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:54.190\nis, and I've talked about this, the most transformative moment that this\n\n85\n00:03:54.190 --> 00:03:55.440\ngeneration will get to lead\n\n86\n00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:59.530\nthrough, right? I think this is a once in a generation type technology\n\n87\n00:03:59.530 --> 00:04:01.920\ntransition. You know, as someone\n\n88\n00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.520\nelse pointed out to me, it's probably the fourth great industrial revolution.\n\n89\n00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.400\nThe first one goes\n\n90\n00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:10.470\nall the way back to the invention of steam. And that was the first time we saw\n\n91\n00:04:10.470 --> 00:04:11.760\ntrans oceanic\n\n92\n00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:15.110\ntransport. You've then followed that up with the internal combustion engine\n\n93\n00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:16.000\nthat led to whether\n\n94\n00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.980\nit was trains or whether it led to the automobile kind of trans within the\n\n95\n00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:22.960\ncontinent, if you will.\n\n96\n00:04:22.960 --> 00:04:25.830\nAnd then the third was the invention of the semiconductor, which put all this\n\n97\n00:04:25.830 --> 00:04:27.040\namazing technology.\n\n98\n00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:30.960\nAnd every one of those had a 40 to 50 year period of massive change. Some of\n\n99\n00:04:30.960 --> 00:04:31.600\nthat comes with the\n\n100\n00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.010\nindustrial revolution. You see levels of productivity. I don't think we've seen\n\n101\n00:04:36.010 --> 00:04:37.600\nthis since the invention\n\n102\n00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.680\nof the semiconductor. And what we are now about to witness is this generation's\n\n103\n00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:42.400\nopportunity to\n\n104\n00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:47.320\nthink about. So I believe in this moment, I often call it the reimagine moment.\n\n105\n00:04:47.320 --> 00:04:48.640\nAnd the reason why is\n\n106\n00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:53.950\nit is an opportunity for every CEO, and I do think it is more the CEO moment\n\n107\n00:04:53.950 --> 00:04:54.800\nthan most,\n\n108\n00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:00.640\nto really reimagine what their business looks like out five and 10 years. And I\n\n109\n00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:01.280\n'm sure David,\n\n110\n00:05:01.280 --> 00:05:04.840\nyou would say having been one of the great operators, great CEOs, no one can\n\n111\n00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:06.080\nlook at five to 10 years.\n\n112\n00:05:06.080 --> 00:05:10.380\nBut I do think in this moment, you have to ask yourself, what could I, if I\n\n113\n00:05:10.380 --> 00:05:11.280\nbuilt this company,\n\n114\n00:05:11.280 --> 00:05:15.040\nAI first look like five to 10 years from now, because I think that's the length\n\n115\n00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:15.680\nof the journey.\n\n116\n00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.280\nAnd I think it's one of those moments that the CEOs that are not doing that,\n\n117\n00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:22.000\nfrankly, are going to get left behind and their companies are going to be in\n\n118\n00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:22.640\ntrouble. And the\n\n119\n00:05:22.640 --> 00:05:26.720\nones that are really out there looking and what is looking look like, I'll come\n\n120\n00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:27.360\nback to in just a\n\n121\n00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:31.770\nmoment. I think they are going to have an opportunity to, if you will, pass in\n\n122\n00:05:31.770 --> 00:05:32.960\nthe rain or pass the\n\n123\n00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:36.680\ncars that are kind of standing there and not moving as quickly. When I think\n\n124\n00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:37.440\nabout this moment,\n\n125\n00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:42.360\nI tend to think about it in three different buckets. Bucket number one is there\n\n126\n00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:42.720\nis pure\n\n127\n00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.270\nproductivity. And by the way, most CEOs get relatively unexcited. I find this\n\n128\n00:05:47.270 --> 00:05:47.920\nis much more\n\n129\n00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:52.430\nthe CFO world, where you can paint a picture that doesn't take very much. It\n\n130\n00:05:52.430 --> 00:05:53.760\nsays my G&A cost as a\n\n131\n00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:59.950\npercentage of revenue could be down by 50%. Because you could imagine really\n\n132\n00:05:59.950 --> 00:06:01.520\nreimagining all of the\n\n133\n00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.800\ncore processes, whether it's HR, whether it's finance, and what's super\n\n134\n00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:07.120\ninteresting about those\n\n135\n00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.410\nand create a much better experience. I don't know what your experience has been\n\n136\n00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:12.240\nlike mine.\n\n137\n00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.080\nIt's very frustrating. I have to go scour my internet to go figure out, or\n\n138\n00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:16.480\ninternet,\n\n139\n00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.670\nI should say, to figure out what HR policy this is, or that is, or what benefit\n\n140\n00:06:20.670 --> 00:06:21.040\nI have.\n\n141\n00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.600\nThat should never be the case again. That should be something where I am\n\n142\n00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:25.120\nchatting with\n\n143\n00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:28.880\nsomething, whether by voice or whether by text. And the answer is very much in\n\n144\n00:06:28.880 --> 00:06:30.480\nsitu. And that,\n\n145\n00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:34.400\nif you do it well, I think we'll have many fewer people. We looked at this for\n\n146\n00:06:34.400 --> 00:06:35.440\na client on marketing,\n\n147\n00:06:35.440 --> 00:06:40.360\nwhich you could argue is a function that is much more on the revenue generating\n\n148\n00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:40.480\nside,\n\n149\n00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.560\nnot even the more traditional G&A. And we found a way, and this now gets into\n\n150\n00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:46.080\nbucket number two.\n\n151\n00:06:46.080 --> 00:06:51.740\nBut before you get into that one, this whole thing on the productivity, it\n\n152\n00:06:51.740 --> 00:06:52.960\nreduces the number of\n\n153\n00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:59.840\npeople. I don't know how should leaders really communicate that. I mean, people\n\n154\n00:06:59.840 --> 00:07:00.400\nworry about\n\n155\n00:07:00.400 --> 00:07:04.810\nlosing their job. There's a big fear of what can happen. How do you handle that\n\n156\n00:07:04.810 --> 00:07:05.280\nas a leader,\n\n157\n00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:09.040\nwhether you're a CEO or leading a team that might be impacted by it?\n\n158\n00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.160\nYeah, so it's super interesting. The first, I can't tell you, a couple dozen\n\n159\n00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:14.160\nconversations I had\n\n160\n00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:18.210\naround AI. It was a lot around this question of productivity. And I think most\n\n161\n00:07:18.210 --> 00:07:19.360\nleaders realize\n\n162\n00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.280\nit's super hard to move the organization to get excited about a world where\n\n163\n00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:25.120\nthey have fewer\n\n164\n00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.290\nemployees. And I think most organizations have a recognition that there will be\n\n165\n00:07:29.290 --> 00:07:29.760\nsome,\n\n166\n00:07:29.760 --> 00:07:34.170\nbut much more what I have found is most want to figure out how do I do this to\n\n167\n00:07:34.170 --> 00:07:34.880\nenable growth.\n\n168\n00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:38.800\nAnd so one level of that is I can do all kinds of things that they either drive\n\n169\n00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:39.280\ngrowth in the\n\n170\n00:07:39.280 --> 00:07:42.680\ncore business, and I can do that without adding more heads. This is a marketing\n\n171\n00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:43.440\nexample that I'll\n\n172\n00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:50.830\ncome to. The other is I can start all kinds of new businesses, and I can rebal\n\n173\n00:07:50.830 --> 00:07:51.600\nance from places\n\n174\n00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:54.400\nwhere I can take labor out and move towards areas of investment that I wouldn't\n\n175\n00:07:54.400 --> 00:07:55.360\nbe able to do before.\n\n176\n00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:58.840\nAnd so what I think most organizations are now pivoting to, and about two\n\n177\n00:07:58.840 --> 00:08:00.000\nthirds of the CEOs I\n\n178\n00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.080\ntalk to say, I really want to orient the story of AI towards a growth story and\n\n179\n00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:04.560\nnot towards a\n\n180\n00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:09.480\nproductivity story. We will get the productivity, but we'll do it as an enabler\n\n181\n00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:10.240\nof what we get out\n\n182\n00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:14.360\nof the growth side. And so I think most senior executives, I think they've\n\n183\n00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:15.200\nstruggled with the,\n\n184\n00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:21.270\nI'm going to use this as a real source of, as I said, the G&A at 50%. And much\n\n185\n00:08:21.270 --> 00:08:22.320\nmore, how do I\n\n186\n00:08:22.320 --> 00:08:25.600\nthink about getting the resources to the places that will make the biggest\n\n187\n00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.560\ndifference to allow\n\n188\n00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:29.940\nthat level of growth that we weren't unable to do in the past? And frankly, we\n\n189\n00:08:29.940 --> 00:08:30.640\nhave limited the\n\n190\n00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:34.060\ngrowth because we don't have the investment capacity to go take the resources\n\n191\n00:08:34.060 --> 00:08:35.040\naway from here and move\n\n192\n00:08:35.040 --> 00:08:38.880\nthem over here. Got it. So moving to that second.\n\n193\n00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:43.420\nI'll open the marking example. So this is a CEO of a company that's worth about\n\n194\n00:08:43.420 --> 00:08:44.800\n$300 billion,\n\n195\n00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:48.270\nright, had been on an incredible journey to get there. He really wants to hit a\n\n196\n00:08:48.270 --> 00:08:49.040\ntrillion dollars.\n\n197\n00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:51.760\nAnd that's not, and he wants to do it in the next three to four years. That is,\n\n198\n00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:52.320\nI mean,\n\n199\n00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.200\nnot that many companies, and I realize we've lived in this unique moment where\n\n200\n00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:55.520\nyou've seen\n\n201\n00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:58.890\nmore, but there have been, it's only four or five years ago, we talked about,\n\n202\n00:08:58.890 --> 00:08:59.600\nmaybe we'll see our\n\n203\n00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.370\nfirst trillion dollar company. And now we've got upwards of five trillion, and\n\n204\n00:09:03.370 --> 00:09:04.320\nthere's probably\n\n205\n00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:09.390\nseven or six or seven of them. But it wasn't, that was not a common kind of\n\n206\n00:09:09.390 --> 00:09:10.080\nlevel of scale.\n\n207\n00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:15.300\nAnd he said, look, I know I've got about a thousand customers today, and the\n\n208\n00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:16.480\nonly way I can get to\n\n209\n00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.600\na trillion is if I can get to 3,000 customers. And I've got to figure out how\n\n210\n00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:20.960\nto do that,\n\n211\n00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.410\nbecause I'm not without adding any resource. I've got to figure out how do I go\n\n212\n00:09:24.410 --> 00:09:24.960\n, and by the way,\n\n213\n00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.920\nto do that, I've got to go after very different segments and a very different\n\n214\n00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:29.120\ngo-to-market motion\n\n215\n00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:34.040\nthat is much more what they would call product-led and much more kind of self-d\n\n216\n00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:34.480\niscovery and\n\n217\n00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.320\nscaling through there before you come. And so how do I target those customers?\n\n218\n00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.880\nHow do I message\n\n219\n00:09:38.880 --> 00:09:42.710\nthose customers? And how do I do that all using kind of an agentic first, right\n\n220\n00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:44.000\n? And so we really\n\n221\n00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.920\nare in the middle of kind of reworking what that organization looks like, right\n\n222\n00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:49.920\n, to enable that\n\n223\n00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:53.680\n1,000 to 3,000. And the whole reason they haven't gotten there in the past,\n\n224\n00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:54.160\nthey haven't able to\n\n225\n00:09:54.160 --> 00:09:57.190\nmake the investment. Now, some of that investment to get to the one that is\n\n226\n00:09:57.190 --> 00:09:58.800\ngoing to come from places\n\n227\n00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:02.720\nwhere they absolutely reduce heads, but it's going to go to places that allow\n\n228\n00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:03.920\nthem to go from $300\n\n229\n00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:07.740\nbillion to $1 trillion. And I have to say, when we started this conversation, I\n\n230\n00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:08.640\ndidn't think it was\n\n231\n00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:12.200\npossible. I was like, there's no way we're going to get to $1 trillion in three\n\n232\n00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:13.360\n, four, five years,\n\n233\n00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.140\npick that time period. And now I think it is, right? I actually think you can\n\n234\n00:10:17.140 --> 00:10:18.240\ndo that. So,\n\n235\n00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.930\nbut that's an example, because you could have started that conversation on\n\n236\n00:10:21.930 --> 00:10:22.880\nmarketing about\n\n237\n00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:27.850\nhow do I go and take out some large percentage of the marketing force. And\n\n238\n00:10:27.850 --> 00:10:28.880\ninstead we most\n\n239\n00:10:28.880 --> 00:10:33.020\nmore pivoted towards how do I think about going from 1,000 to 3,000. And when\n\n240\n00:10:33.020 --> 00:10:34.000\nyou do that, the\n\n241\n00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.920\norganization goes, I want to be on that journey. How do you get? I know you're\n\n242\n00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:38.240\ngoing to get to\n\n243\n00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:42.750\nthis third book, but how do you create a AI driven culture? You know, I want to\n\n244\n00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:44.240\nbe on this journey.\n\n245\n00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:49.220\nSo in the case I just gave you, you have to start by saying, do we believe, do\n\n246\n00:10:49.220 --> 00:10:50.080\nwe want to get to\n\n247\n00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.320\nthis place, whether it's 1,000 to 3,000 to 300 to a trillion, whatever that\n\n248\n00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.040\nmission that you're\n\n249\n00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:58.470\nsaying and why. And one of the things I've learned over the years as someone\n\n250\n00:10:58.470 --> 00:10:59.840\ntaught me is there's\n\n251\n00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.150\ndifferent groups. There's some people that are motivated by what's in it for\n\n252\n00:11:02.150 --> 00:11:04.000\nthem. You may argue\n\n253\n00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:07.590\nthat if I go from 300 to a trillion, look at my bank account. There's another\n\n254\n00:11:07.590 --> 00:11:08.240\ngroup that says,\n\n255\n00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.640\nwhat does that do for the community around me? There's another group that says,\n\n256\n00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:11.280\nwhat does it do for\n\n257\n00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:15.050\nmy customers? There's another group that says, what does it do for my team? And\n\n258\n00:11:15.050 --> 00:11:16.080\nso you have to\n\n259\n00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.560\nfigure out how you can create the why that speaks to everyone that puts\n\n260\n00:11:19.560 --> 00:11:21.200\neveryone in that organization\n\n261\n00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.120\non that same mission and that every one of the jobs that you are doing is\n\n262\n00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:26.640\norienting towards that\n\n263\n00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:31.860\nmission. To do that today, you can't do these things. You can't dream that big\n\n264\n00:11:31.860 --> 00:11:32.400\nwithout thinking\n\n265\n00:11:32.400 --> 00:11:36.220\nabout what does it look like AI first. And the hardest part of the, I mean, one\n\n266\n00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:36.560\nof the things\n\n267\n00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:40.730\nthat's so magical about AI today is the most democratized technology we've ever\n\n268\n00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:41.200\nseen,\n\n269\n00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:46.020\nright? It's in everyone's hands. It's why everyone talks about, look at the\n\n270\n00:11:46.020 --> 00:11:46.800\nrate and pace which they\n\n271\n00:11:46.800 --> 00:11:51.110\ngot to 100 million users, right? Everyone is using this, whether you're using\n\n272\n00:11:51.110 --> 00:11:52.160\nit to plan your trip,\n\n273\n00:11:52.160 --> 00:11:54.890\nwhether you're using it to plan your recipes, whether you're using this to ask\n\n274\n00:11:54.890 --> 00:11:55.600\nit the question\n\n275\n00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:59.350\nused to ask Google, right? Everyone is using this, which means every one of our\n\n276\n00:11:59.350 --> 00:11:59.920\nemployees\n\n277\n00:11:59.920 --> 00:12:04.960\nis using AI. I got to get to this third bucket, but I want to ask you this one\n\n278\n00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.280\nbecause we're\n\n279\n00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:09.490\nhonest. This is so fascinating. You know, what skills should leaders be\n\n280\n00:12:09.490 --> 00:12:11.520\ndeveloping in their people\n\n281\n00:12:11.520 --> 00:12:17.280\nif AI is doing so much of their thinking these days? So I get this question a\n\n282\n00:12:17.280 --> 00:12:18.080\nlot in the context\n\n283\n00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.670\nof McKinsey, right? Because this question comes up is, gosh, what a lot of the\n\n284\n00:12:21.670 --> 00:12:22.640\nwork that you guys\n\n285\n00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:26.720\nwere doing some period of time ago, the AI can do, and I'm like, absolutely.\n\n286\n00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.600\nBut if you go back\n\n287\n00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:30.880\nin time and look at what I did when I was first an analyst, what I took six\n\n288\n00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:31.920\nweeks to do, we now\n\n289\n00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:36.840\ncall Tuesday between 8.30 and 9. That's just the way it's been evolving that\n\n290\n00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:37.600\nway. The problems get\n\n291\n00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.000\nmore complicated. The young adults that are graduating from university that I\n\n292\n00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.400\nget to speak to, I say,\n\n293\n00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:45.970\nlook, the things that will differentiate you is, A, have you learned how to\n\n294\n00:12:45.970 --> 00:12:47.040\nbecome a great prompt\n\n295\n00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:50.730\nengineer? Do you know how to ask the right questions? And by the way, part of\n\n296\n00:12:50.730 --> 00:12:51.680\nasking the right questions\n\n297\n00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:55.400\nis being incredibly intellectually curious, right? You're going to get a\n\n298\n00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:57.120\nsurface level answer\n\n299\n00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.840\nin some period of time. It could be three minutes. It could be five minutes. It\n\n300\n00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:00.400\ncould be an hour,\n\n301\n00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:04.200\ndepending on the complexity of what you ask. But do you understand why you got\n\n302\n00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:05.120\nthat answer? Are you\n\n303\n00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.210\nwilling to challenge that answer? Are you willing to ask it more subsequent\n\n304\n00:13:08.210 --> 00:13:08.880\nquestions?\n\n305\n00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:11.760\nAre you willing to ask it a different question to get a different answer, to\n\n306\n00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:13.840\nsee what the A's and\n\n307\n00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.330\nthe B's or the red and the blues? And so you have to get super intellectually\n\n308\n00:13:17.330 --> 00:13:17.840\ncurious,\n\n309\n00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:22.800\nand you have to be willing to be a good prompt engineer that never accepts the\n\n310\n00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:23.440\nfirst surface\n\n311\n00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.200\nlevel answer. And so I think today, everyone has to start to do this.\n\n312\n00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:33.680\nHow do you teach curiosity? How do you teach that? How do you drive that deep\n\n313\n00:13:33.680 --> 00:13:34.960\nin your organization?\n\n314\n00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.710\nSo I believe that anytime you're trying to make organizational changes a lot. I\n\n315\n00:13:38.710 --> 00:13:39.120\nmean,\n\n316\n00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.090\nthere's an influence model and one of those is role modeling and the other is\n\n317\n00:13:43.090 --> 00:13:44.000\nquestions that\n\n318\n00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.990\nyou can ask, right? And so people tend and you know this when you were, you\n\n319\n00:13:46.990 --> 00:13:47.360\nknow,\n\n320\n00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:51.480\nif you're asking a question, people are going to start to realize it's\n\n321\n00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:53.280\nimportant, right? That is\n\n322\n00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:59.130\none of the, I would say, the privileges of leadership. And for me, it's every\n\n323\n00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:01.200\ntime I get in with a team.\n\n324\n00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.760\nFirst of all, I asked them how they're using it. Like I asked them, well, how\n\n325\n00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:05.200\ndid you come up with\n\n326\n00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:10.120\nthis answer? How do you use the AI? What questions were you asking it? Did you\n\n327\n00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:10.960\nask it X? Did you,\n\n328\n00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.300\nyou know, you have to, you have to be intellectually curious, first and\n\n329\n00:14:14.300 --> 00:14:15.200\nforemost,\n\n330\n00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.270\nif you want them to be intellectually curious, be they have to see that you're\n\n331\n00:14:19.270 --> 00:14:21.440\nusing it, right?\n\n332\n00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.870\nYou know, what are your own experiences? So I will talk about like how I used\n\n333\n00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:25.840\nit to do X or do I.\n\n334\n00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.860\nAnd then, you know, you have to find ways to celebrate whether it's teams or\n\n335\n00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:31.360\nindividuals\n\n336\n00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:35.440\nor do something outstanding to use a technology, which is a little bit of the\n\n337\n00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:36.160\npulpit that you get\n\n338\n00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:41.080\nto sit on to say, again, I don't know, maybe this is just inside my firm, but\n\n339\n00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:42.800\ninside McKinsey,\n\n340\n00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:48.720\nyou will see if someone of leadership celebrates someone else, everyone starts\n\n341\n00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.040\nto say, well,\n\n342\n00:14:49.040 --> 00:14:53.360\nwhy did they get celebrated? And how do I get celebrated next time? I want to\n\n343\n00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:53.680\nbe the one\n\n344\n00:14:53.680 --> 00:14:57.510\nthey can celebrate. What did they do? And you start to watch people follow,\n\n345\n00:14:57.510 --> 00:14:58.320\nespecially if they see\n\n346\n00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.220\nthe same kind of common thread of what someone in leadership is selling. You\n\n347\n00:15:03.220 --> 00:15:03.760\nunderstand, obviously,\n\n348\n00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:07.760\nthe power of recognition of it. That's exactly it. That's a bill. I'm not sure\n\n349\n00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:08.320\nit works in every\n\n350\n00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:12.240\norganization, but it sure works. I think it works everywhere. I think every\n\n351\n00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:12.800\npeople want to be\n\n352\n00:15:12.800 --> 00:15:17.230\nrecognized. But you know, so you got this bucket of productivity, you got this\n\n353\n00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:18.000\nbucket of growth.\n\n354\n00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.840\nWhat's the third bucket of growth in the core? And then I think the third is,\n\n355\n00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:26.960\nhow do you use AI to create net new business, which is another form of growth?\n\n356\n00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:27.920\nWhat are the\n\n357\n00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:31.660\nthings that I can do with AI that I might not have been able to do before? I\n\n358\n00:15:31.660 --> 00:15:33.280\nthink Yum did something\n\n359\n00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:35.800\nwith bite, which I thought was super interesting. And I don't know how\n\n360\n00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:36.800\nsuccessful it's been yet.\n\n361\n00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.580\nI don't know where it is. But this idea that we can create this operating\n\n362\n00:15:40.580 --> 00:15:41.760\nsystem that allows a\n\n363\n00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:47.280\nfranchisee's to effectively optimize that I've given them something that isn't\n\n364\n00:15:47.280 --> 00:15:49.920\nthe next best\n\n365\n00:15:49.920 --> 00:15:53.990\noffering or product. But I'm giving them a technology that allows them to,\n\n366\n00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:54.400\nwhether it's\n\n367\n00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:57.780\nthe market better, all of a sudden, and I can now take that and go from my\n\n368\n00:15:57.780 --> 00:15:58.800\nfranchisee's and now\n\n369\n00:15:58.800 --> 00:16:03.210\nI can go beyond my friend. That to me is a net new business. And so I think\n\n370\n00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:03.760\nwhat every\n\n371\n00:16:03.760 --> 00:16:07.240\norganization I start asking, what do I do? If I have all kinds of really\n\n372\n00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:08.800\ninteresting data\n\n373\n00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:13.120\non what's going on on an aircraft, do I start to use that data to create a\n\n374\n00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:13.680\nbusiness that\n\n375\n00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:16.960\nmight do something very like, how do I start to take this information that I\n\n376\n00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.000\nnever realized was\n\n377\n00:16:18.640 --> 00:16:24.080\nso interesting as a new business around AI that I create? And so I always think\n\n378\n00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:24.720\nof those three.\n\n379\n00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.810\nIt's how do I drive productivity, which is mostly about rebalancing or reall\n\n380\n00:16:29.810 --> 00:16:31.040\nocating.\n\n381\n00:16:31.040 --> 00:16:35.550\nHow do I figure out how to drive the core, the 1000 to 3000? And how do I\n\n382\n00:16:35.550 --> 00:16:36.560\ncreate a net new business\n\n383\n00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:40.580\nthat never would have been possible but for what I am able to do because I was\n\n384\n00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:41.520\nout in front?\n\n385\n00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:48.150\nWhat would be the one bit of advice you'd give to every leader that should help\n\n386\n00:16:48.150 --> 00:16:48.640\nthem win\n\n387\n00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:54.640\nin this new era that we're in? If you had to just pick one bit of advice.\n\n388\n00:16:54.640 --> 00:17:03.840\nI would find a way every week to explore some new AI technology in my life,\n\n389\n00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.640\nwhether it's in my\n\n390\n00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.880\npersonal life or whether it's in my professional life. Go listen to a podcast,\n\n391\n00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:09.520\nlearn about the\n\n392\n00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:13.280\ntech and then go experiment with it and see what it can do. One of the stories\n\n393\n00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:14.240\nI really found\n\n394\n00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.000\nquite fond of as a friend of mine, as a CEO of a very successful financial\n\n395\n00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:20.960\nservices company,\n\n396\n00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:27.120\nnot surprisingly happens to be a big golfer. He was trying to figure out why\n\n397\n00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:27.920\nthey fit him in a\n\n398\n00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:31.920\ncertain golf club with a certain shaft because nothing about that made sense\n\n399\n00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.120\ngiven his handicap\n\n400\n00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:39.200\netc. And he went to the various forms of the chat GPT or Gemini and I really\n\n401\n00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.000\nkind of got in and\n\n402\n00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.840\nasked it a thousand questions to kind of get to the place where it actually did\n\n403\n00:17:43.840 --> 00:17:45.040\nhelp him understand\n\n404\n00:17:45.040 --> 00:17:50.800\nwhy they'd gotten to. And it's a totally unimportant decision but it showed his\n\n405\n00:17:50.800 --> 00:17:51.680\nwillingness to be\n\n406\n00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.490\nopen to it and to learn from it and to use it in something that was important\n\n407\n00:17:55.490 --> 00:17:55.920\nto him\n\n408\n00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.650\nso that I promise you what he's going to do now is he's going to use that\n\n409\n00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:00.800\ntechnology and what you\n\n410\n00:18:00.800 --> 00:18:04.600\nknow he's prepping for a meeting with his team. He's going to ask it seven\n\n411\n00:18:04.600 --> 00:18:05.920\nquestions that you know\n\n412\n00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.820\nhe wants to be well informed about before he sees the team. It's just going to\n\n413\n00:18:08.820 --> 00:18:10.240\nhelp him be better at\n\n414\n00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.180\nwhat he does. That's great you know and thanks for going deep on this subject\n\n415\n00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:15.280\nbecause everybody\n\n416\n00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:19.360\nis really curious as to how to out of out of out of winning this environment\n\n417\n00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:20.400\nbut I want to shift gears\n\n418\n00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:27.450\nnow and move into your leadership and at the kids in your past you know and let\n\n419\n00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:28.320\n's start just with a\n\n420\n00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:31.520\nstory from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today.\n\n421\n00:18:31.520 --> 00:18:36.960\nWe talked about this a little bit of the not giving up. There is no question my\n\n422\n00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:37.440\nparents\n\n423\n00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.620\nplayed a very formative role. I think really my father played a very formative\n\n424\n00:18:40.620 --> 00:18:41.200\nrole in kind of\n\n425\n00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:47.680\nthe person that I became. Both sort of gave me different attributes but I think\n\n426\n00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.040\nthe restlessness\n\n427\n00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:53.920\nhas been a large part because of things my father would do with me when I was\n\n428\n00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:54.160\nyoung. So\n\n429\n00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:58.240\nlike literally when I was two years old my dad decided that I was going to be a\n\n430\n00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:58.960\nprofessional baseball\n\n431\n00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:03.080\nplayer that obviously didn't happen and he taught me to switch hit and I\n\n432\n00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:04.240\nremember you know he'd come\n\n433\n00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.550\nto all my games and even the games that went extraordinary I remember there's\n\n434\n00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:09.360\none game it was\n\n435\n00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:12.840\nit got us into the league championship. I think I was a senior at the time. I\n\n436\n00:19:12.840 --> 00:19:14.240\nwent I had a great\n\n437\n00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:18.110\ngame. I mean I think I went for two for three and I think I think I had one RBI\n\n438\n00:19:18.110 --> 00:19:19.200\nand we went to one\n\n439\n00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.650\nand I scored one of the runs and they got through a guy out at second base and\n\n440\n00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:23.520\nI really felt like I\n\n441\n00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:27.760\ngot like I'm like I'm on top of the moon and I remember my father asking me a\n\n442\n00:19:27.760 --> 00:19:28.240\nquestion that when\n\n443\n00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:31.570\nsomething like you know Eric I don't really understand like why did you call\n\n444\n00:19:31.570 --> 00:19:32.640\nfor that pitch on that\n\n445\n00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.800\ncount and not part of the game right and it was like no matter how good it felt\n\n446\n00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:37.840\nin the moment it's\n\n447\n00:19:37.840 --> 00:19:42.730\nalways like you can be better you can you can aspire for greater still and I\n\n448\n00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:43.600\nthink that has been a\n\n449\n00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:48.420\nbig part of my leadership is I just never allowed the status quo or the reason\n\n450\n00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:49.520\nyou know because we\n\n451\n00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:55.040\nsomething is being done because that's the way we've always done it as kind of\n\n452\n00:19:55.040 --> 00:19:55.200\nsomething I'm\n\n453\n00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.770\nwilling to to let sit and and I think it came from all those experiences a lot\n\n454\n00:19:59.770 --> 00:20:00.480\nof those came from\n\n455\n00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.710\ngrowing up playing sports or growing up and and him always pushing like well\n\n456\n00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:05.600\nwhy what were you\n\n457\n00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:09.580\nthinking in that moment to really kind of help me think about well maybe there\n\n458\n00:20:09.580 --> 00:20:10.640\nwas a different way\n\n459\n00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.720\nand and that's I mean I think my poor teams that have had to suffer with me\n\n460\n00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:15.440\nthey will come forth\n\n461\n00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.750\nand say well we've done acts and I said well I don't understand it feels like\n\n462\n00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:18.320\nthat's what we\n\n463\n00:20:18.320 --> 00:20:21.600\nused to do but like why are we doing it that way and does that make sense given\n\n464\n00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:21.760\nthe\n\n465\n00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:27.200\nmission that we're on and inevitably you can push and you get to a different\n\n466\n00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:28.000\nand better place\n\n467\n00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:32.860\nbecause you don't you're not willing to accept the past as the as the marker of\n\n468\n00:20:32.860 --> 00:20:33.600\nthe future yeah\n\n469\n00:20:33.600 --> 00:20:37.840\nyou know that the best leaders typically have this healthy dissatisfaction with\n\n470\n00:20:37.840 --> 00:20:38.640\nit with the status\n\n471\n00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:44.300\nquo and and you know speaking of that your your father was a doctor and I\n\n472\n00:20:44.300 --> 00:20:45.920\nunderstand you wanted to\n\n473\n00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:52.670\nbe an orthopedic surgeon at one one point in time uh when was that moment you\n\n474\n00:20:52.670 --> 00:20:53.600\nrealized that that\n\n475\n00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:58.030\nwasn't going to be your path so you talked about early like how many how many\n\n476\n00:20:58.030 --> 00:20:58.880\nbroken bones that I\n\n477\n00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.460\nhave and as I said I stopped counting but I was in the orthopods office a lot\n\n478\n00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:02.960\nand I was\n\n479\n00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.040\nI love skiing and my orthopedic surgeon was the usg team doctor and I decided\n\n480\n00:21:07.040 --> 00:21:07.760\nkind of growing up\n\n481\n00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:11.770\naround medicine that that's what I wanted to do and I had oriented my entire\n\n482\n00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:13.680\nlife around that and\n\n483\n00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:17.040\nI was literally going to bed the night before I was taking the MCAT which for\n\n484\n00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:17.440\nthose that have\n\n485\n00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:21.220\nnever thought about medical school are the entrance exam but you would take the\n\n486\n00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:22.560\nSATs or the ACTs or\n\n487\n00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:27.600\nthe GREs for graduate school or the LSATs for law school and I went to bed that\n\n488\n00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:29.280\nnight probably\n\n489\n00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:32.560\npretty early I you know probably like 9 30 10 o'clock which is super early if\n\n490\n00:21:32.560 --> 00:21:33.760\nyou're in college not so\n\n491\n00:21:33.760 --> 00:21:38.680\nsuper early for me today and I woke up at like 1 30 in the morning I was\n\n492\n00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:40.480\nfinally ill like literally\n\n493\n00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:46.300\nyou know over the toilet violently ill I get uh I get back in bed I wake up at\n\n494\n00:21:46.300 --> 00:21:47.440\nlike 5 30 and I'm\n\n495\n00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:51.360\nviolently ill and at this point I said you know what I'm just going to get up I\n\n496\n00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:51.920\n'm going to get\n\n497\n00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.080\nshowered I'm going to get dressed I'm going to go meet my friends we're all\n\n498\n00:21:55.080 --> 00:21:56.000\nabout to have we're\n\n499\n00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.000\ngoing to get bagels at the bagel place across the street from where we're going\n\n500\n00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:00.000\nto take the MCATs\n\n501\n00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:05.520\nI had a red Cornell baseball hat and I had a green Patagonia fleece that was up\n\n502\n00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:06.160\nover my nose\n\n503\n00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:11.060\nbecause I was shivering I get into the exam I take my pencil and I open the\n\n504\n00:22:11.060 --> 00:22:12.240\nbook and\n\n505\n00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:17.460\nwithin five minutes I get violently ill and all over the exam when I get exc\n\n506\n00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:18.080\nused for being a\n\n507\n00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:21.690\ndisruption and that was like a really big moment not because I'd been sick by\n\n508\n00:22:21.690 --> 00:22:23.200\nthe way I felt fine\n\n509\n00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.130\nsix hours later it was because once you missed that window for the MCAT the\n\n510\n00:22:28.130 --> 00:22:29.280\nnext window wasn't\n\n511\n00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:32.560\nuntil I think August and that meant you really had to take another year and I\n\n512\n00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.600\nremember that\n\n513\n00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:38.560\nsummer I was doing a fellowship and and I called my dad and I was very nervous\n\n514\n00:22:38.560 --> 00:22:39.200\nabout calling him\n\n515\n00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.240\nbecause I felt like I was going to disappoint like we'd spent my whole life\n\n516\n00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:42.880\nkind of orienting\n\n517\n00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:48.360\ntowards this and he'd been a mentor and he was you know a doctor and so on and\n\n518\n00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:49.200\nand I said dad I\n\n519\n00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.650\ndon't think I'm going to go to medical school and he kind of said why and I\n\n520\n00:22:52.650 --> 00:22:53.680\nsaid I I'm doing a lot\n\n521\n00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.250\nof thinking over this summer and I don't think that's what I want to do I don't\n\n522\n00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:58.640\nthink it's I said\n\n523\n00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.760\neverything that I've enjoyed doing in school is not what I did in engineering\n\n524\n00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:03.840\nor not what I did in\n\n525\n00:23:03.840 --> 00:23:07.890\nthis class is to learn to be a doctor it's like everything I've done has had an\n\n526\n00:23:07.890 --> 00:23:09.200\nelement of leadership\n\n527\n00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.210\nand teamwork and I think I want to do that and he goes what does that look like\n\n528\n00:23:13.210 --> 00:23:14.240\nyou know I go I\n\n529\n00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.500\ndon't know and this is how I ended up McKinsey I said all my friends applied\n\n530\n00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:19.600\nfor jobs at McKinsey\n\n531\n00:23:19.600 --> 00:23:22.450\nlast year none of them got it maybe I'll apply to that and see if I can get one\n\n532\n00:23:22.450 --> 00:23:23.200\nbecause they you\n\n533\n00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:28.120\nknow just as a way to show them and that was a little bit of of how I changed\n\n534\n00:23:28.120 --> 00:23:28.560\ncourse and\n\n535\n00:23:28.560 --> 00:23:32.550\nand it you know it's funny he always had this expression um or has this\n\n536\n00:23:32.550 --> 00:23:34.000\nexpression which is\n\n537\n00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.050\nif you're a skier it's not how you groom the ski it's not how you scheme the\n\n538\n00:23:38.050 --> 00:23:38.720\ngroomers it's how\n\n539\n00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.470\nyou ski the bump runs or like how do you throw how do you hit the curveball\n\n540\n00:23:41.470 --> 00:23:42.400\nlike it's throwing at\n\n541\n00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:47.680\nyou and that was a real curveball for me hey describe the culture that was at\n\n542\n00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:48.480\nthe McKinsey back\n\n543\n00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:54.140\nthen you know I it was hard to get in obviously it was a culture cutthroat\n\n544\n00:23:54.140 --> 00:23:55.440\ncollaborative you know\n\n545\n00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:02.190\nwhat was it like I would say of my 28 plus years at the firm you know 90 plus\n\n546\n00:24:02.190 --> 00:24:02.800\npercent of it has\n\n547\n00:24:02.800 --> 00:24:08.010\nbeen super super collaborative and it's only moments and and it may be it's 95\n\n548\n00:24:08.010 --> 00:24:08.960\npercent there's\n\n549\n00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:11.670\na five percent of the window where the firm is not at its best and then you can\n\n550\n00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:12.240\nget a little bit\n\n551\n00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.990\ncutthroat people feel like they're competing but it's one of the things I've\n\n552\n00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:16.000\nalways loved about our\n\n553\n00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:22.100\nfirm is we celebrate team we celebrate collective we don't celebrate individual\n\n554\n00:24:22.100 --> 00:24:24.320\nand there's also\n\n555\n00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:27.880\nit's not like there's one senior partner it's not like there's you know you go\n\n556\n00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:28.480\nto a corporation\n\n557\n00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:32.410\nthere's one CEO there's you know in our case the managing partner is the first\n\n558\n00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:33.200\namong equals\n\n559\n00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:38.470\nright you know there we're all peers in kind of how we lead and so that's a\n\n560\n00:24:38.470 --> 00:24:39.600\nvery big difference\n\n561\n00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:42.670\nand so as a result there's not there's you know we always thought about\n\n562\n00:24:42.670 --> 00:24:44.240\nelecting another partner is\n\n563\n00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.350\nwe have this incredible table where there's 11 of us sitting there and we've\n\n564\n00:24:47.350 --> 00:24:48.240\ncreated this great\n\n565\n00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.170\nfeast and or we if someone else bring in something to the table that is going\n\n566\n00:24:51.170 --> 00:24:52.160\nto be additive and if\n\n567\n00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.610\nthey are we want to invite them and so there's sort of this limitless you know\n\n568\n00:24:55.610 --> 00:24:56.640\nappetite for\n\n569\n00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.520\ninviting more to join the party as long as they are bringing something that it\n\n570\n00:25:00.520 --> 00:25:01.680\nthat makes us\n\n571\n00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:06.600\nbetter or not does bigger and I think as a result I just never felt like I was\n\n572\n00:25:06.600 --> 00:25:07.600\never competing with\n\n573\n00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:12.170\nsomeone inside the firm but rather I was collaborating in fact I have found one\n\n574\n00:25:12.170 --> 00:25:12.880\nof the things I really\n\n575\n00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:16.200\nand I really put emphasis on this is team-based sports and folks that have\n\n576\n00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:17.360\nlearned how to succeed\n\n577\n00:25:17.360 --> 00:25:22.240\nin the team I think do extraordinarily well and what we do because we are I\n\n578\n00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:22.880\nmean every day you're\n\n579\n00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.760\nworking in a team that team you know you know you know someone has to pick up\n\n580\n00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:26.960\nyou make a mistake\n\n581\n00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.670\nit's not that person to make a mistake it's what do we all do to kind of make\n\n582\n00:25:29.670 --> 00:25:30.560\nthat mistake and\n\n583\n00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:33.920\nit's a lot like when you play on a team sport it's not anyone individuals fault\n\n584\n00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:34.720\nin that moment\n\n585\n00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:38.820\nit's what everything that led up to that moment that got there and so I you\n\n586\n00:25:38.820 --> 00:25:39.760\nknow that expression of\n\n587\n00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:43.320\nyou're only as strong as your weakest link I really believe in and so it has\n\n588\n00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:44.400\nalways been about how\n\n589\n00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.620\ndo you build the links around you to be so everyone is better hello everyone I\n\n590\n00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:50.720\nhope you are loving\n\n591\n00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.640\nthis episode with David and Eric as always stay tuned to the very end of the\n\n592\n00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:56.320\nepisode when David\n\n593\n00:25:56.320 --> 00:26:00.530\nand I debrief the conversation that he's having with Eric will give you a few\n\n594\n00:26:00.530 --> 00:26:01.680\npractical tangible\n\n595\n00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.550\ntakeaways that you can apply right away to your leadership to your work and to\n\n596\n00:26:05.550 --> 00:26:06.560\nyour life so stay\n\n597\n00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:11.510\ntuned to the very end of the episode and I will see you at the debrief so here\n\n598\n00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:13.600\nyou are you you\n\n599\n00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:18.160\nyou're a collaborator you believe in collaboration you also just described a\n\n600\n00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.040\nlittle bit earlier about\n\n601\n00:26:19.040 --> 00:26:23.180\nhow competitive you I mean you know obviously you're competitive you know you\n\n602\n00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:24.720\nyou get a special cast\n\n603\n00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:29.640\nand you talked about all this animalistic behavior that you have how did you\n\n604\n00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.520\nmanage the the balance\n\n605\n00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:38.270\nbetween being collaborative and competitive and how to differentiate yourself\n\n606\n00:26:38.270 --> 00:26:39.120\nfrom others in the\n\n607\n00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:43.000\nfirm the first part's easy the second part of that I'm not sure I have a great\n\n608\n00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:43.680\nanswer for\n\n609\n00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.960\nand by the way I don't know that I always did this well I think some of this\n\n610\n00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:48.480\nhas been\n\n611\n00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.900\nas I've gotten more and more comfortable on my own skin and more comfortable\n\n612\n00:26:52.900 --> 00:26:54.320\nwhere I am in life\n\n613\n00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:58.560\nmore than anything else but you know it's funny I think leadership in maybe and\n\n614\n00:26:58.560 --> 00:26:58.880\npart of this is\n\n615\n00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.590\ngetting more comfortable in life is as you're as you progress in life you know\n\n616\n00:27:01.590 --> 00:27:02.640\nI had this incredible\n\n617\n00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.200\nand you you'll know and Ron Daniel you'll remember him from yeah he was on my\n\n618\n00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:07.840\nboard yeah okay so Ron\n\n619\n00:27:07.840 --> 00:27:11.780\nI think it's an amazing amazing guy you just have this expression which is you\n\n620\n00:27:11.780 --> 00:27:12.960\nhave to age in the\n\n621\n00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:17.370\nbottle right and one of the most unnatural things that I think sometimes we\n\n622\n00:27:17.370 --> 00:27:18.640\nmake people do is they\n\n623\n00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:21.370\nlead before they're ready they lead before they're comfortable in their own\n\n624\n00:27:21.370 --> 00:27:23.360\nskin and for me\n\n625\n00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:27.520\nand by the way I think it takes time you can't rush it like there's no process\n\n626\n00:27:27.520 --> 00:27:28.000\nto make that\n\n627\n00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.740\nwine better in the short term it just takes time for it to kind of run its\n\n628\n00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:32.720\nprocess it's why I\n\n629\n00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.980\nthe wisdom comes with age because it comes with experience and you can you can\n\n630\n00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:38.160\nbe super smart\n\n631\n00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.920\nyou can be an incredible leader but you need time to let those things happen\n\n632\n00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.360\nand by the way you\n\n633\n00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:47.450\nhave to have lived through failure you know I don't think you can become your\n\n634\n00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:48.320\nbest self-till\n\n635\n00:27:48.320 --> 00:27:52.840\nyou've lived through real failure and it's when you're faced with that failure\n\n636\n00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:53.440\nyou have to decide\n\n637\n00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.320\nwhat you're going to do and are you going to push yourself through that moment\n\n638\n00:27:57.320 --> 00:27:58.320\nof failure it's why\n\n639\n00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:02.340\nI love athletes right even the championship team has had failure moments in the\n\n640\n00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:03.120\ncourse of what\n\n641\n00:28:03.120 --> 00:28:06.960\nthey've done they've had to decide they're going to persevere through one of\n\n642\n00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.920\nthe things I often\n\n643\n00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.970\ngot criticized for is maybe having too much ambition which is back to your\n\n644\n00:28:10.970 --> 00:28:11.760\npoint about being\n\n645\n00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:16.680\ncompetitive and it's funny I never thought of the ambition for myself but I\n\n646\n00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:17.760\nalways thought about\n\n647\n00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:23.600\nfor institutionally or what we were doing as that team whether that team was an\n\n648\n00:28:23.600 --> 00:28:25.200\noffice or a sector\n\n649\n00:28:26.080 --> 00:28:30.000\nand and not everyone always understood that but I didn't understand why anyone\n\n650\n00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:30.640\nwould ever and by\n\n651\n00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.440\nthe way this was part of my own learnings is it doesn't always resonate ever\n\n652\n00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.640\nknows if I got asked\n\n653\n00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:39.050\na question and I had a very for me it was a large sizable leadership role when\n\n654\n00:28:39.050 --> 00:28:39.840\nI was too young to\n\n655\n00:28:39.840 --> 00:28:42.980\nprobably be in it or too inexperienced to be in it and I stood up in front of\n\n656\n00:28:42.980 --> 00:28:43.840\nthe group and I said\n\n657\n00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.760\nhere's what winning looks like and one of my partners said Eric why would like\n\n658\n00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:49.600\nwhy does winning\n\n659\n00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:53.290\nmatter and I literally think I said something like I don't understand the\n\n660\n00:28:53.290 --> 00:28:54.320\nquestion that doesn't\n\n661\n00:28:54.320 --> 00:28:58.080\ncompute like do you want to be do you not well like I don't because that's just\n\n662\n00:28:58.080 --> 00:28:58.640\nhow like you\n\n663\n00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:02.090\nalways grew up that and the reality is that doesn't speak to everyone right not\n\n664\n00:29:02.090 --> 00:29:02.960\neveryone kind of\n\n665\n00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:07.880\noriented that way and so the ambition that I had for us collectively didn't\n\n666\n00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:08.720\nresonate with\n\n667\n00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.150\nwith others and so therefore a guy they got placed on me and that was that was\n\n668\n00:29:12.150 --> 00:29:13.440\na real lesson about\n\n669\n00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.880\nhow you have to lead to bring others and figure out what it is that motivates\n\n670\n00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.080\nthem because what\n\n671\n00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:20.910\nmotivates me is not them and by the way that's a hard thing to do because you\n\n672\n00:29:20.910 --> 00:29:21.680\nhave to be true to\n\n673\n00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.920\nyourself as a leader but you have to recognize that what you're doing is not\n\n674\n00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:26.400\nalways going to be\n\n675\n00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:31.320\nthe inviting thing to someone else you know the failure thing I think is real I\n\n676\n00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:32.720\nand I think as\n\n677\n00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.790\nyou get more comfortable in your own skin you're probably more willing to\n\n678\n00:29:35.790 --> 00:29:36.880\nrecognize the failure\n\n679\n00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:43.630\nand to take learnings from the failure and your biggest failure I've talked\n\n680\n00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:44.720\nabout this a lot and\n\n681\n00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.410\nit's this a hard one for me because you know so before I was in this role I was\n\n682\n00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:49.200\na CFO of the firm\n\n683\n00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:55.000\nand I thought I had I mean if you I didn't I didn't want to be the CFO of the\n\n684\n00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:55.680\nfirm I was\n\n685\n00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.170\nasked to be the CEO of the firm CFO of the firm and I did it because I've\n\n686\n00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:00.160\nalways been a good\n\n687\n00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.550\nsoldier and when you know when the leader asked you to do something you figure\n\n688\n00:30:03.550 --> 00:30:04.640\nit's in the collective\n\n689\n00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:07.920\nbest interest and so you do it and part of the reason I didn't want to do it is\n\n690\n00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.560\nI wasn't excited\n\n691\n00:30:08.560 --> 00:30:11.000\nabout the role but part of the reason is I didn't think I was going to learn a\n\n692\n00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:11.840\nlot in the role like\n\n693\n00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:15.680\nI thought I kind of knew the skills and I built the skills that were required\n\n694\n00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:16.880\nto be successful in that\n\n695\n00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:21.800\nrole and my failure was there's the what you do but how you change an\n\n696\n00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:23.520\norganization of this size\n\n697\n00:30:23.520 --> 00:30:28.360\nand get them to believe in the why and then the how you bring them along I\n\n698\n00:30:28.360 --> 00:30:29.040\nfailed miserably at\n\n699\n00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:32.650\nthat there are things that I definitely had wrong on the what but that wasn't\n\n700\n00:30:32.650 --> 00:30:33.520\nthe real problem\n\n701\n00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:36.380\nthe problem was the organization didn't believe my partners didn't believe in\n\n702\n00:30:36.380 --> 00:30:37.040\nwhat we were doing\n\n703\n00:30:37.040 --> 00:30:41.130\nthey didn't understand it they didn't and the result is when it didn't go the\n\n704\n00:30:41.130 --> 00:30:41.760\nright way\n\n705\n00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:46.360\nI was the one to blame because I hadn't kind of gotten the buy-in and gotten\n\n706\n00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:47.280\nwhat were you trying\n\n707\n00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:50.880\nto do there were a lot of things we were trying to do we were trying to\n\n708\n00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.400\nintroduce new capabilities to\n\n709\n00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.320\nthe firm and get them to scale at a pace that they hadn't in the past we were\n\n710\n00:30:57.320 --> 00:30:58.320\ndoing that through\n\n711\n00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:02.060\nelements of M&A that we had not ever really succeeded in the past and we were\n\n712\n00:31:02.060 --> 00:31:02.720\nnot that the\n\n713\n00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:05.870\nend of them were big but there were more of them we probably did more\n\n714\n00:31:05.870 --> 00:31:07.200\nacquisitions in a three or\n\n715\n00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.150\nfour year period than we'd done in the history of the firm by a factor of three\n\n716\n00:31:11.150 --> 00:31:12.320\nor four and the\n\n717\n00:31:12.320 --> 00:31:16.490\nfirms a hundred years old so it was a real change we were trying to do things\n\n718\n00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:18.400\naround new innovative\n\n719\n00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.680\neconomic models and and how we better align what we're doing with our clients\n\n720\n00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:25.200\nand and by the way\n\n721\n00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.130\npart of that was helping people to understand the why we were trying to do it\n\n722\n00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:28.960\nwhich I failed at\n\n723\n00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:34.700\nmiserably it was a super humbling experience I had I think I went into that\n\n724\n00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:37.520\nrole you know as well\n\n725\n00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:43.340\nliked as anyone and I came out of that role really in a bad spot for the first\n\n726\n00:31:43.340 --> 00:31:44.320\ntime in my\n\n727\n00:31:44.320 --> 00:31:48.820\n28 years I felt pretty unwelcome when I show up for a meeting how do you get it\n\n728\n00:31:48.820 --> 00:31:50.000\nas you get out\n\n729\n00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.800\nget through that I mean as a leader it was hard I mean I had friends that\n\n730\n00:31:53.800 --> 00:31:55.120\nreally I had some I had\n\n731\n00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:00.040\ntwo friends in particular who I think really helped me they listened a lot they\n\n732\n00:32:00.040 --> 00:32:00.880\ncoached me through\n\n733\n00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.170\nI had a moment which I think was the beginning of the healing process with my\n\n734\n00:32:05.170 --> 00:32:06.480\npartners where\n\n735\n00:32:07.360 --> 00:32:11.480\nyou know our managing partner had just been reelected it had been a contentious\n\n736\n00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:12.400\nelection to say the\n\n737\n00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:17.320\nleast and the first meeting we had afterwards was in Copenhagen the managing\n\n738\n00:32:17.320 --> 00:32:18.160\npartner asked me if I\n\n739\n00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.740\nwould open the meeting to talk about how we're doing and I was like you're out\n\n740\n00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:21.280\nof your mind\n\n741\n00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:25.590\nlike why like I'm the CFO like this is a moment for you to stand up and for you\n\n742\n00:32:25.590 --> 00:32:26.160\nto kind of\n\n743\n00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:30.160\nbring everyone together and like no one likes me right now and I don't have any\n\n744\n00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:30.560\nparticularly\n\n745\n00:32:30.560 --> 00:32:34.370\ngreat news to share so like why would you possibly throw me up there to set up\n\n746\n00:32:34.370 --> 00:32:35.520\nthis meeting which\n\n747\n00:32:35.520 --> 00:32:38.870\nis going to be down the next three days and the tone is going to get set in the\n\n748\n00:32:38.870 --> 00:32:39.840\nfirst 40 minutes\n\n749\n00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:43.920\nand he goes Eric I just need you to do it and now whether he was just so much\n\n750\n00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:44.640\nsmarter than me or\n\n751\n00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.690\nhe figured out that I was going to who the hell knows why I remember sitting\n\n752\n00:32:47.690 --> 00:32:48.480\nthere and I have this\n\n753\n00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.560\nincredible business analyst who worked full-time for me at the time and I said\n\n754\n00:32:52.560 --> 00:32:53.600\nwe have to figure\n\n755\n00:32:53.600 --> 00:32:56.150\nout something we were working on the charts and one day we had this epiphany\n\n756\n00:32:56.150 --> 00:32:57.600\nwhich is I was going\n\n757\n00:32:57.600 --> 00:33:00.880\nto walk up on stage and it went something like this I literally we do our\n\n758\n00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:02.560\nmeetings in the round so\n\n759\n00:33:02.560 --> 00:33:06.250\nit doesn't feel quite as large and it feels like you're kind of immersed in\n\n760\n00:33:06.250 --> 00:33:07.120\nwith your partners\n\n761\n00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:12.000\nand so you've got this kind of stadium seating around this the circle and it\n\n762\n00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:12.400\nworks well for me\n\n763\n00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.300\nbecause I talk with my hands as you can see and I pace a lot and I have this\n\n764\n00:33:16.300 --> 00:33:18.000\nmicrophone I call it\n\n765\n00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.920\nmy Madonna mic and the music stops and I'm now walking out of my seat and up on\n\n766\n00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:24.080\nstage and I turn\n\n767\n00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:27.860\nto my partners and I say look let's just call a spade a spade this relation but\n\n768\n00:33:27.860 --> 00:33:28.560\nit ain't been\n\n769\n00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:33.840\nworking for a while so I bought you all a gift and I said so I'd like you to\n\n770\n00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:34.720\nall reach underneath\n\n771\n00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:40.190\nyour chairs and there's a gift and they all pulled out a stressful like one of\n\n772\n00:33:40.190 --> 00:33:41.200\nthose little blue\n\n773\n00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:46.100\nstress balls that you squeeze and I said before you all say cut your why the\n\n774\n00:33:46.100 --> 00:33:46.720\nhell would you buy\n\n775\n00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.400\nme a stress ball that's not the gift but on the count of three I want you to\n\n776\n00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.680\nall stand up and I\n\n777\n00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.560\nwant you to throw that ball at me and I went one two and I said stop and I went\n\n778\n00:33:57.560 --> 00:33:58.560\nand I grabbed my\n\n779\n00:33:58.560 --> 00:34:03.480\ncatcher's mask I put my catcher's mask on and three three thousand balls came p\n\n780\n00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:04.560\nummeling down on\n\n781\n00:34:04.560 --> 00:34:10.800\nstage in this moment where everything started to heal itself again and I had a\n\n782\n00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.240\nlot of people\n\n783\n00:34:12.240 --> 00:34:17.160\ntold me you can't do that it's the wrong tone but I was just kind of me right I\n\n784\n00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:18.480\nit was kind of my\n\n785\n00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:24.140\nway of saying to the partners like I get it you need you need to be able to let\n\n786\n00:34:24.140 --> 00:34:25.760\nit out before we\n\n787\n00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.890\ncan move forward and then we can decide if we're going to move forward but\n\n788\n00:34:28.890 --> 00:34:29.920\nthere's no chance we're\n\n789\n00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:34.330\ngoing to get there unless we do that that's a great great story you know and\n\n790\n00:34:34.330 --> 00:34:35.120\nyou know people\n\n791\n00:34:35.120 --> 00:34:40.040\nknow McKinsey is a great consulting firm obviously but tell me a story that\n\n792\n00:34:40.040 --> 00:34:41.760\nwould give everyone a\n\n793\n00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:48.810\nbetter sense of what McKinsey looks like at its best from discovery to the\n\n794\n00:34:48.810 --> 00:34:50.160\nfinal deliverables for\n\n795\n00:34:50.160 --> 00:34:54.170\na client I think when we're at our best you can't tell who's McKinsey and who's\n\n796\n00:34:54.170 --> 00:34:54.880\nthe client\n\n797\n00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:02.160\nthat when we're on best we are literally working from the CEO's office all the\n\n798\n00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:02.880\nway down to the\n\n799\n00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.800\nfront line that we are collectively as a team set on a set of objectives like\n\n800\n00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:08.560\nthat man on the\n\n801\n00:35:08.560 --> 00:35:11.910\nmoon moment where we've set something that we know and thought was possible as\n\n802\n00:35:11.910 --> 00:35:12.560\nan objective\n\n803\n00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:17.760\nand that we are working tirelessly to achieve it that everyone from the front\n\n804\n00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:18.400\nline of the client\n\n805\n00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.090\nto that scene literally at the end say we would never have gotten there but for\n\n806\n00:35:22.090 --> 00:35:23.920\nand as one client\n\n807\n00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.070\nonce said to me it was the first time we ever worked together he goes I never\n\n808\n00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:28.160\nworked with the firm\n\n809\n00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:33.890\nand while this effort may be coming to an end I now understand kind of why what\n\n810\n00:35:33.890 --> 00:35:34.800\nyou do is so\n\n811\n00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:40.580\nmagical and I think of this much more as the end of the beginning because I\n\n812\n00:35:40.580 --> 00:35:41.120\nknow we're going to do\n\n813\n00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:45.130\na lot of great that it was just that's what it feels like and it feels like a\n\n814\n00:35:45.130 --> 00:35:46.240\nselfless team who\n\n815\n00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:50.320\nis willing to do everything to make this organization better that you care\n\n816\n00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:51.280\nabout one of the things I've\n\n817\n00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:54.970\nalways loved about it's hard because when you when you when you serve a client\n\n818\n00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:56.000\nyou serve a client the\n\n819\n00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:00.940\nlevel of of intimacy that we get a chance to do it often you actually become\n\n820\n00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:02.320\npart of that institution\n\n821\n00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:07.240\nlike I root for that organization for decades to come I often will describe it\n\n822\n00:36:07.240 --> 00:36:08.960\nas we not as like\n\n823\n00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.710\nthey because I feel as accountable and I feel like when things aren't going\n\n824\n00:36:12.710 --> 00:36:14.000\nwell I want to be like\n\n825\n00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:18.480\nyou really get you really become a part of that fabric in a in a way that\n\n826\n00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:23.890\nis felt and and and it really I've watched it I've watched it when the client\n\n827\n00:36:23.890 --> 00:36:24.720\ndoesn't know who's the\n\n828\n00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:30.950\nclient who's mckenzie yeah you know it's I got a confession to make here uh you\n\n829\n00:36:30.950 --> 00:36:32.160\nknow I I ran marketing\n\n830\n00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:37.370\nat uh at pizza hot we had very little low budget couldn't really afford\n\n831\n00:36:37.370 --> 00:36:39.200\nconsultants and then I got\n\n832\n00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:44.090\npromoted to be the executive VP of uh marketing sales for a Pepsi Cola company\n\n833\n00:36:44.090 --> 00:36:45.680\nand I went in and\n\n834\n00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:50.300\nwe had a huge marketing department obviously and everywhere I looked there was\n\n835\n00:36:50.300 --> 00:36:51.440\na consultant and I\n\n836\n00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:57.140\nwas like what do you do because we had all these consultants running around you\n\n837\n00:36:57.140 --> 00:36:58.560\nknow doing what I\n\n838\n00:36:58.560 --> 00:37:05.610\nthought was the job of the person that was in the job okay and I I got this\n\n839\n00:37:05.610 --> 00:37:10.240\nbelief that that many\n\n840\n00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:14.190\npeople who hire consultants are just lazy they they don't do their own own\n\n841\n00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:18.080\nthinking and so I you\n\n842\n00:37:18.080 --> 00:37:24.150\nknow then I end up running young brands and we're also you know very frugal I\n\n843\n00:37:24.150 --> 00:37:25.840\nmean I had this\n\n844\n00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:30.760\ndid I had this phrase if it looks like consultant did his start over I had it I\n\n845\n00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:31.760\nhad all this you\n\n846\n00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:38.050\nknow disdain for consultants and then you know we did end up using consultants\n\n847\n00:37:38.050 --> 00:37:39.120\na couple of times\n\n848\n00:37:39.120 --> 00:37:44.560\nI'd be curious as to what your reaction is to that and and when should you hire\n\n849\n00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:45.920\na consultant\n\n850\n00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:51.680\nbecause I know you're a pretty avid golfer do you have a coach uh I have had\n\n851\n00:37:51.680 --> 00:37:52.880\nyou coaches\n\n852\n00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:58.720\nI think it's pretty hard to find a great athlete that doesn't have a team\n\n853\n00:37:58.720 --> 00:37:59.360\naround them\n\n854\n00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:03.600\nright and usually that involves there's someone that's helping them from the\n\n855\n00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:04.160\nmental and there's\n\n856\n00:38:04.160 --> 00:38:06.960\nsomeone that's helping them train physically and there's someone that kind of\n\n857\n00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:07.920\nis an expert in\n\n858\n00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:12.940\nif we take golf the swing or the short game or the and we would criticize them\n\n859\n00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:14.160\nonly if they don't\n\n860\n00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:19.080\nhave that team around them and I think a big part of what we are is we are we\n\n861\n00:38:19.080 --> 00:38:20.560\nare that team around\n\n862\n00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:25.600\nthe great athletes to help make them better um and part of that is no matter\n\n863\n00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:26.720\nhow good you are\n\n864\n00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:32.790\nyou don't see what's going on and you know and it's little things that make all\n\n865\n00:38:32.790 --> 00:38:33.360\nthe difference\n\n866\n00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:37.920\nright it's the way I approach that particular shot or it's the the way I've\n\n867\n00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:38.640\nkind of worked my\n\n868\n00:38:38.640 --> 00:38:42.330\nswing to get and it's no matter what you can't do it and and you need someone\n\n869\n00:38:42.330 --> 00:38:43.200\nby your side and so\n\n870\n00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:47.710\nI think a lot of what we do is we are the coach for the great athlete because\n\n871\n00:38:47.710 --> 00:38:48.480\nthe teams that\n\n872\n00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.810\nthe clients we work for are great companies and they're doing extraordinarily\n\n873\n00:38:51.810 --> 00:38:53.760\nwell most of the time\n\n874\n00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.180\nand you've got incredible leadership teams who are leading some of the most\n\n875\n00:38:57.180 --> 00:38:58.320\nimportant institutions\n\n876\n00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.710\non earth of course these are some of the most capable people you've ever\n\n877\n00:39:01.710 --> 00:39:03.920\nencountered but so is\n\n878\n00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:07.980\nyou know so are the LA Dodgers or so are you know so are you know pick your\n\n879\n00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:09.360\nfavorite college football\n\n880\n00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:14.240\nteam but yet you know all those athletes and all those Olympians tend to have\n\n881\n00:39:14.240 --> 00:39:14.560\npeople that are\n\n882\n00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:19.780\nhelping them perfect their craft and I think that's a big part of what we end\n\n883\n00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:20.880\nup doing certainly as\n\n884\n00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.780\nsenior members my experience has always been and I've had some of my clients I\n\n885\n00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:25.680\n've served for the\n\n886\n00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:30.890\nmajority if not all of my career it's very hard to bring someone in that doesn\n\n887\n00:39:30.890 --> 00:39:32.320\n't know the organization\n\n888\n00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:35.920\nthat doesn't know the team that doesn't that for which you have to build trust\n\n889\n00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:37.920\num because those\n\n890\n00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.840\nthings to do that to take the leaps of faith that we as a firm and we as\n\n891\n00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.840\nconsultants will push\n\n892\n00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:48.390\norganizations to do is a leap of faith it is you have to really have trust in\n\n893\n00:39:48.390 --> 00:39:48.960\nthat person that\n\n894\n00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.240\nthey have your best interest I don't think that works well transactionally my\n\n895\n00:39:52.240 --> 00:39:53.200\nphilosophy has always\n\n896\n00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:57.610\nbeen I am extraordinary long-term urgent with my clients as I said I've served\n\n897\n00:39:57.610 --> 00:39:58.880\none client for 28\n\n898\n00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.810\nplus years and there are times when we're not engaged at all there were times\n\n899\n00:40:02.810 --> 00:40:03.680\nwe were thrown\n\n900\n00:40:03.680 --> 00:40:07.600\nout of the building but that didn't stop me from meeting with the executives\n\n901\n00:40:07.600 --> 00:40:08.480\nand ensuring that I\n\n902\n00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:12.040\nalways kind of knew and provide a perspective and when the time was right and\n\n903\n00:40:12.040 --> 00:40:12.880\nthat time was the\n\n904\n00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.660\norganization was ready that executive was ready we would really be there to\n\n905\n00:40:16.660 --> 00:40:17.760\nwork side by side with\n\n906\n00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:21.040\nthem to get to a mission that they didn't think was possible and when there\n\n907\n00:40:21.040 --> 00:40:22.720\nwasn't we would still\n\n908\n00:40:22.720 --> 00:40:26.130\nbe around or if certain of us would certainly be still be around and I think\n\n909\n00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:27.200\nthat's really it is\n\n910\n00:40:27.200 --> 00:40:31.130\nyou know you you have to build folks around you that you can trust that can be\n\n911\n00:40:31.130 --> 00:40:32.240\nwith you through all\n\n912\n00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:36.010\nperiods of time including when you don't need them as much you know if you're\n\n913\n00:40:36.010 --> 00:40:37.360\non a heater you don't\n\n914\n00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.240\nreally want to make a lot of change but that doesn't mean you don't want that\n\n915\n00:40:41.240 --> 00:40:42.160\nteam around you\n\n916\n00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:45.970\nseeing what you're doing and maybe just actually saying you know keep going you\n\n917\n00:40:45.970 --> 00:40:46.800\n're on a heater\n\n918\n00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:53.280\nyou mentioned long-term urgent explain so I've had two philosophies in my own\n\n919\n00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:54.320\ncareer that I just kind\n\n920\n00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:00.250\nof um I actually heard from a a Goldman exec when I was a baby at the firm he\n\n921\n00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:02.080\nhad a list of things\n\n922\n00:41:02.080 --> 00:41:04.960\nthat they believed in and two of them really resonated with me one is long-term\n\n923\n00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:05.440\nurgency\n\n924\n00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:11.150\nand the second is you run to trouble um and I'll give you first the example of\n\n925\n00:41:11.150 --> 00:41:11.520\nyou know you run\n\n926\n00:41:11.520 --> 00:41:16.440\nto trouble I had a a colleague who she was a remark she was remarkable what she\n\n927\n00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:17.840\ndid and\n\n928\n00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:25.760\nwhen the CFO of her client got fired she would go visit that CFO every week at\n\n929\n00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.880\nhis house for the\n\n930\n00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:32.960\nnext nine months and when the CFO got rehired into another situation everyone\n\n931\n00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:33.760\non you know under the\n\n932\n00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.680\nSun called and said hey I'd like to meet with you he picked up the phone and\n\n933\n00:41:38.680 --> 00:41:40.480\ncalled her and he did\n\n934\n00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:45.400\nthat because she had been there with him every step along the way including\n\n935\n00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:46.400\nwhen no one else wanted\n\n936\n00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.840\nto talk to him because he never positioned that to me is running into trouble\n\n937\n00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:50.560\nthe long-term\n\n938\n00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:55.970\nurgent is I treat every meeting with the utmost importance never with an\n\n939\n00:41:55.970 --> 00:41:57.200\nexpectation that I'm\n\n940\n00:41:57.200 --> 00:42:01.000\ngoing to do anything on the back end I remember I had one client who really was\n\n941\n00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:02.400\nimportant to me\n\n942\n00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:07.660\nand I met him when I was probably a mid-tenured partner and I said look what I\n\n943\n00:42:07.660 --> 00:42:08.880\nwant to do is I\n\n944\n00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:13.200\nwant to go I'll give you two stories from the two different individuals there I\n\n945\n00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:13.760\nsaid I want\n\n946\n00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.590\nto meet with you every month I'm just going to set up an hour every month and\n\n947\n00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:18.480\nevery month you're\n\n948\n00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:21.360\ngoing to give me an assignment of things that you want me to be thinking about\n\n949\n00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.160\non your behalf and\n\n950\n00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:25.950\nI'm going to come back and I'm going to share some perspective and when the\n\n951\n00:42:25.950 --> 00:42:26.960\ntime is right you'll\n\n952\n00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:31.880\ndecide if and when you want to work on any of these things and honestly I bet\n\n953\n00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:33.280\nyou we didn't do\n\n954\n00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:38.490\nany work with him for the first 18 months of that so he'd call it 18 meetings\n\n955\n00:42:38.490 --> 00:42:41.760\nand you know we probably\n\n956\n00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:45.090\ndidn't do a ton of work until there was a moment it was probably seven or eight\n\n957\n00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.160\nyears later where he\n\n958\n00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:49.440\nreally was the moment was right for him to do something that was big and\n\n959\n00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.360\ntransformative but it\n\n960\n00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:57.290\ntook years years to get there or I had another client where he got thrust into\n\n961\n00:42:57.290 --> 00:42:58.400\na position because\n\n962\n00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.920\nhis boss got fired overnight and he didn't really want the job he didn't feel\n\n963\n00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:03.840\nlike he was super\n\n964\n00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.200\nwell prepared for the job and I said don't look I'm just going to I'm going to\n\n965\n00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.000\ntake the office\n\n966\n00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.560\nright outside of yours and I'm going to be there every day and there were days\n\n967\n00:43:11.560 --> 00:43:12.240\nwhere he would have\n\n968\n00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:15.410\nto fly across the country I'd get on the plane with him and I'd fly with him\n\n969\n00:43:15.410 --> 00:43:16.400\nand we'd talk and do\n\n970\n00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:20.700\nwhat we had to do and then I'd get on a red eye back you know you know coach\n\n971\n00:43:20.700 --> 00:43:21.520\nthe net that same night\n\n972\n00:43:21.520 --> 00:43:24.850\nI'd literally go from one side of the airport to the other and that's what I\n\n973\n00:43:24.850 --> 00:43:25.760\nmean by long-term\n\n974\n00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.120\nurgent I was never in it for what that you know what was going to come our way\n\n975\n00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:31.040\nI was always treating\n\n976\n00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:34.410\nevery moment with the L level of urgency as it was the most important moment\n\n977\n00:43:34.410 --> 00:43:35.440\nbut I recognize it would\n\n978\n00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.910\ntake time until the situation would be right for us to really have the impact\n\n979\n00:43:38.910 --> 00:43:39.920\nthat I aspired for us\n\n980\n00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.960\nto have that's what I meant those are the two things that have been really\n\n981\n00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.680\nimportant to me\n\n982\n00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:48.600\nnow you you also say that you believe that Mackenzie's talent is your your\n\n983\n00:43:48.600 --> 00:43:49.600\nbiggest competitive\n\n984\n00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:57.760\nadvantage what what can you teach us about how to have an eye for a great\n\n985\n00:43:57.760 --> 00:43:59.600\ntalent I mean you know\n\n986\n00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:05.260\nwhat do you what do you really what you see people at clients you see people\n\n987\n00:44:05.260 --> 00:44:06.080\nwithin the firm\n\n988\n00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:11.800\nwhat have you picked up on that front our talent model is somewhat unique right\n\n989\n00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:12.080\nmeaning\n\n990\n00:44:12.080 --> 00:44:19.280\nmost of our talent is hired at the entry level so we hire about 50% of our\n\n991\n00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:20.160\npeople right out of\n\n992\n00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:24.470\nundergraduate we hire the other 50% out of some level of graduate school or\n\n993\n00:44:24.470 --> 00:44:25.120\nthat's probably not\n\n994\n00:44:25.120 --> 00:44:30.040\nright it's probably 98% so call it 49 and 49 and there's 2% that will come in\n\n995\n00:44:30.040 --> 00:44:30.240\nlater\n\n996\n00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:37.600\nand so at some level the eye for talent is more about intrinsic at that stage\n\n997\n00:44:37.600 --> 00:44:38.880\nthan it is about\n\n998\n00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:44.320\nany particular skills and so I've always thought about this kind of in three\n\n999\n00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:45.120\nbuckets\n\n1000\n00:44:45.120 --> 00:44:49.280\nthat you're looking for one is you know we are famous for our case interviews\n\n1001\n00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:54.180\nso we are really testing how you do on a conceptual level from a problem\n\n1002\n00:44:54.180 --> 00:44:54.720\nsolving how you do from\n\n1003\n00:44:54.720 --> 00:44:58.280\nanalytical level how you do from a quantitative level and it is really a test\n\n1004\n00:44:58.280 --> 00:44:59.120\nit is really a way\n\n1005\n00:44:59.120 --> 00:45:04.080\nto examine how you do walking through an example that you might encounter when\n\n1006\n00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:05.040\nyou show up\n\n1007\n00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:09.450\nfrom a kind of problem solving intrinsic point of view and a lot of that is how\n\n1008\n00:45:09.450 --> 00:45:10.080\ndo you structure\n\n1009\n00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:14.180\nand how would you how would you go figure out and and that by the way I often\n\n1010\n00:45:14.180 --> 00:45:14.880\nget frustrated\n\n1011\n00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.430\ntoday when all these kids come in and they're super well prepped and they've\n\n1012\n00:45:17.430 --> 00:45:18.320\ngot all the frameworks\n\n1013\n00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:22.400\nI actually want to see how they think not like the way chat GPT would tell them\n\n1014\n00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:22.960\nto answer the\n\n1015\n00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:26.240\nquestion but you can figure out people that are really think or come up with\n\n1016\n00:45:26.240 --> 00:45:27.120\ninnovative ways to\n\n1017\n00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:30.300\nlook at it that when you're on the other side of the interview doing the\n\n1018\n00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:31.680\ninterview you're like\n\n1019\n00:45:31.680 --> 00:45:34.960\ngosh I learned something and that the way they thought about it right so I look\n\n1020\n00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:35.440\nfor that\n\n1021\n00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:40.660\nI look for we we have these things where you're looking for life experiences\n\n1022\n00:45:40.660 --> 00:45:42.000\nand how do they respond\n\n1023\n00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:46.060\nin those moments so we often say well give us a moment where you failed or give\n\n1024\n00:45:46.060 --> 00:45:46.560\nus a moment\n\n1025\n00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:50.130\nwhere you were leading and we only ask questions like well what were you\n\n1026\n00:45:50.130 --> 00:45:51.600\nthinking what did you do\n\n1027\n00:45:51.600 --> 00:45:56.520\nor what did you say so you can't tell me the story right other than kind of\n\n1028\n00:45:56.520 --> 00:45:57.520\nthrough those and\n\n1029\n00:45:57.520 --> 00:46:00.520\nyou're constantly asking them well what did you say to the person in that\n\n1030\n00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:00.880\nmoment\n\n1031\n00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:06.160\nright well why did you say that like what were you thinking about or you know\n\n1032\n00:46:06.160 --> 00:46:06.720\nbecause you're trying\n\n1033\n00:46:06.720 --> 00:46:09.800\nto understand how they influence and how they kind of navigate tricky\n\n1034\n00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:11.680\nsituations and and someone\n\n1035\n00:46:11.680 --> 00:46:15.030\nthat's kind of testing the maturity and are they kind of more mature because we\n\n1036\n00:46:15.030 --> 00:46:15.920\n're going to throw a\n\n1037\n00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:19.620\nlot of these young folks into situations where they are with much more senior\n\n1038\n00:46:19.620 --> 00:46:20.560\nexperience more\n\n1039\n00:46:20.560 --> 00:46:25.500\nseasoned leaders and so how will they react in those moments and the third I\n\n1040\n00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:26.320\njust look for is\n\n1041\n00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:30.010\nkind of what are their leadership like in the organization that even part of\n\n1042\n00:46:30.010 --> 00:46:30.800\nwhat difference did\n\n1043\n00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.000\nthey make as leaders right so I often you know I have kids that are in college\n\n1044\n00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:36.240\nand so they're\n\n1045\n00:46:36.240 --> 00:46:38.240\nall coming to me with questions and their friends are coming to me with\n\n1046\n00:46:38.240 --> 00:46:39.280\nquestions and they're like\n\n1047\n00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.970\nwell there'd be as part of such and such a club matter I'm like it doesn't\n\n1048\n00:46:42.970 --> 00:46:44.320\nbecause I don't care\n\n1049\n00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.600\nwhat things you were affiliated with I care about what difference you made when\n\n1050\n00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:48.640\nyou were there\n\n1051\n00:46:48.640 --> 00:46:52.200\nright and so I want to hear about the and so between those three things you can\n\n1052\n00:46:52.200 --> 00:46:52.720\nget a real\n\n1053\n00:46:52.720 --> 00:46:56.890\nsense of the person and the potential and then we shape a lot of it right we\n\n1054\n00:46:56.890 --> 00:46:58.000\nshape a lot of it\n\n1055\n00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.840\nfrom that point which is why I say it's a somewhat unique model right if you're\n\n1056\n00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:02.960\ntrying to hire like\n\n1057\n00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.670\nI have to say I still struggle with if I'm trying to if we're trying to hire\n\n1058\n00:47:05.670 --> 00:47:06.720\nsomeone at a very senior\n\n1059\n00:47:06.720 --> 00:47:10.660\nlevel like I don't know that I have yet figured out what are the questions\n\n1060\n00:47:10.660 --> 00:47:12.240\nasked to really understand\n\n1061\n00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:15.520\nor they grade it what they did you can ask references but those are always\n\n1062\n00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:17.120\nbiased the beauty of what\n\n1063\n00:47:17.120 --> 00:47:21.040\nwe do is we really kind of take this raw talent these diamonds in the rough and\n\n1064\n00:47:21.040 --> 00:47:22.320\nwe get them to be\n\n1065\n00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:27.210\nthis incredible gem by the time they're done yeah I know when I've interviewed\n\n1066\n00:47:27.210 --> 00:47:29.040\nyoung people and\n\n1067\n00:47:29.040 --> 00:47:34.970\nyou know I just get excited but it's like you meet these people you go god I\n\n1068\n00:47:34.970 --> 00:47:35.840\ncan't let this guy\n\n1069\n00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.530\nout of my office like this woman I we've got to hire her you know but they had\n\n1070\n00:47:39.530 --> 00:47:40.320\na way of just\n\n1071\n00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.600\nexciting the hell out of you yeah you do this while you always every meeting\n\n1072\n00:47:43.600 --> 00:47:44.400\nanyone that ever meets\n\n1073\n00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.980\nyou walks away feeling good and more energized than they did beforehand and I\n\n1074\n00:47:47.980 --> 00:47:48.720\nthink that's a big\n\n1075\n00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:52.660\npart of you know you have to be as someone say exothermic you have to kind of\n\n1076\n00:47:52.660 --> 00:47:53.200\ndeliver\n\n1077\n00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:57.440\nthis energy that is infectious to people well I don't know if I do that but I\n\n1078\n00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:58.000\n'll tell you what\n\n1079\n00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:01.280\nwhen I would meet the people that had it I mean I couldn't wait to hire them\n\n1080\n00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.320\nthere's no question\n\n1081\n00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:08.550\nabout that you know and you know you you Eric you you you really get prepared\n\n1082\n00:48:08.550 --> 00:48:09.840\nyou're known for\n\n1083\n00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.930\npreparation so like if you're gonna if you're gonna sit down and have a big\n\n1084\n00:48:12.930 --> 00:48:13.760\nmeeting with a\n\n1085\n00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:20.030\na CEO or a potential client how do you think through that you know and again it\n\n1086\n00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:20.480\nall depends\n\n1087\n00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.760\non the meeting I find and you can tell me this is true or not true that if you\n\n1088\n00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.240\n're going to meet\n\n1089\n00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:29.460\nwith a CEO the first thing I always do is I read the cover of last years or the\n\n1090\n00:48:29.460 --> 00:48:30.560\ninside you know what\n\n1091\n00:48:30.560 --> 00:48:34.870\nthey wrote to the shareholders because I typically find most CEOs spend a lot\n\n1092\n00:48:34.870 --> 00:48:36.000\nof time thinking about\n\n1093\n00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.320\nwhat messages they want to and they're very proud of what they've written in\n\n1094\n00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:40.160\nthere and so I first\n\n1095\n00:48:40.160 --> 00:48:45.080\njust try to understand that with AI there's some incredible things like\n\n1096\n00:48:45.080 --> 00:48:46.160\nnotebook LM where you can\n\n1097\n00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:49.010\ngo find every speech they've given the last three months and every interview\n\n1098\n00:48:49.010 --> 00:48:49.920\nthey've done and what\n\n1099\n00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.860\nthey've said on analyst meetings and you can create a short podcast you can say\n\n1100\n00:48:53.860 --> 00:48:54.720\nI want a five-minute\n\n1101\n00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:58.990\npodcast I want a 10 minute that really can synthesize kind of what may be on\n\n1102\n00:48:58.990 --> 00:49:00.640\ntheir mind I typically will\n\n1103\n00:49:00.640 --> 00:49:03.740\nspend real time saying what are the three four five six things that I really\n\n1104\n00:49:03.740 --> 00:49:04.800\nwant to make sure I get\n\n1105\n00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.540\nacross but I I would tell you on an average meeting I might get one or two of\n\n1106\n00:49:08.540 --> 00:49:09.760\nthose and I always go\n\n1107\n00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:13.260\nin without paper which I am sure there's some people I go see they're like why\n\n1108\n00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:14.080\nis he always coming\n\n1109\n00:49:14.080 --> 00:49:17.980\nto that paper it's not that I didn't prepare the paper it's not I just I can't\n\n1110\n00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:19.200\nhave the conversation\n\n1111\n00:49:19.200 --> 00:49:22.920\nwith you if I'm staring or taking you through a document and I can bring\n\n1112\n00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:24.000\nsomeone else to walk\n\n1113\n00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.880\nthrough the document if they come to the point in time where that's the right\n\n1114\n00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:27.600\nthing to do but I\n\n1115\n00:49:27.600 --> 00:49:29.910\nreally want to hear what's on your mind I want to hear what's and so I learned\n\n1116\n00:49:29.910 --> 00:49:30.560\nto ask a lot of\n\n1117\n00:49:30.560 --> 00:49:34.280\nquestions but I have done a fair bit of prep right so I always listen to the\n\n1118\n00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:35.600\nlast earnings call I\n\n1119\n00:49:35.600 --> 00:49:38.400\nalways want to know what's going on I always want to know what the questions\n\n1120\n00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:39.120\nwere I want to know who\n\n1121\n00:49:39.120 --> 00:49:42.080\nwe answered the questions why they answered and the way they did I want to see\n\n1122\n00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:43.200\nwhat the stock reacted\n\n1123\n00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:46.920\nto I want to you know I'm constantly trying to understand one of the things I\n\n1124\n00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:47.760\ndo lots of times I\n\n1125\n00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.870\ngo talk to customers right because it's always good to come in with a\n\n1126\n00:49:50.870 --> 00:49:52.320\nperspective of what the kind\n\n1127\n00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:56.010\nI don't deal with a lot of consumer businesses personally I deal with a lot\n\n1128\n00:49:56.010 --> 00:49:57.440\nmore enterprise-related\n\n1129\n00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.130\nsales and so what's the customer saying what's the reputation what are those\n\n1130\n00:50:01.130 --> 00:50:02.880\nCEOs not really hearing\n\n1131\n00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.760\nfrom their own teams of what's maybe going on and inevitably because I've spent\n\n1132\n00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:07.280\nso much time\n\n1133\n00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:10.970\nin tech I I know we're serving a lot of these other institutions so I\n\n1134\n00:50:10.970 --> 00:50:12.160\nunderstand what they're\n\n1135\n00:50:12.160 --> 00:50:15.440\nthinking and how they're thinking about in the perception and I find that super\n\n1136\n00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:16.080\nI find that\n\n1137\n00:50:16.080 --> 00:50:19.460\nsuper compelling but you know what do I know because the only compelling part\n\n1138\n00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:20.240\nis they haven't\n\n1139\n00:50:20.240 --> 00:50:25.550\nthrown me out too often you know there's been so much fun Eric and I want to\n\n1140\n00:50:25.550 --> 00:50:26.400\nhave some more and\n\n1141\n00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:30.320\nI have this lightning round of questions sir so are you ready for this yeah\n\n1142\n00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:30.960\nthree words that\n\n1143\n00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.180\nbest describe you optimistic energetic and restless if you could be one person\n\n1144\n00:50:36.180 --> 00:50:36.720\nfor a day\n\n1145\n00:50:36.720 --> 00:50:42.480\nbeside yourself who would it be it's gaudy sheffler your biggest pet peeve\n\n1146\n00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:44.480\nhierarchy who would play\n\n1147\n00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:50.320\nyou in a movie tom cruise I thought you'd have to tell me it's Jerry Seinfeld\n\n1148\n00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:51.680\nthat's why you know\n\n1149\n00:50:54.480 --> 00:51:01.680\nyour favorite place to ski Kirkwood Mountain in Tahoe lowest round of golf 67\n\n1150\n00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:02.080\nwhen you're\n\n1151\n00:51:02.080 --> 00:51:07.300\nteeing it up with your your boys in the weekend who wins my my 18 year old has\n\n1152\n00:51:07.300 --> 00:51:08.480\nbeaten me once and\n\n1153\n00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.970\nhe won't let me live it down and he made birdie on 18 to do it he shot 75 that\n\n1154\n00:51:13.970 --> 00:51:14.960\nday we're still at a\n\n1155\n00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.070\npoint where I am beating my kids but I don't I don't think that's for much\n\n1156\n00:51:18.070 --> 00:51:19.040\nlonger the fastest\n\n1157\n00:51:19.040 --> 00:51:24.010\nyou've ever driven in your electric car 120 miles an hour what's something you\n\n1158\n00:51:24.010 --> 00:51:25.360\n've been curious about\n\n1159\n00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:30.600\nlately that has nothing to do with work the ideas behind longevity have you\n\n1160\n00:51:30.600 --> 00:51:32.320\nread that book out live\n\n1161\n00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.200\nI did I read her over the break yeah I read it too so I'm gonna live for a long\n\n1162\n00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:38.240\ntime I have no doubt\n\n1163\n00:51:38.240 --> 00:51:44.310\nabout it what's the one thing you do just for you I go to the gym every day if\n\n1164\n00:51:44.310 --> 00:51:45.280\nI turned on the\n\n1165\n00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:48.840\nradio in your car what would I hear right now you'd find Spotify is the thing\n\n1166\n00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:50.000\nthat I am using most\n\n1167\n00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:53.580\noften and I've been listening to a couple of different artists lately I've been\n\n1168\n00:51:53.580 --> 00:51:54.320\nlistening to\n\n1169\n00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.760\nColdplay I've been listening to the Google dolls I've been listening to train\n\n1170\n00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:59.360\nwhat's something about\n\n1171\n00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:06.110\nyou a few people would know I think most people would would think about me more\n\n1172\n00:52:06.110 --> 00:52:07.120\nabout my head and\n\n1173\n00:52:07.120 --> 00:52:11.290\nwhat's going on in terms of my brain I actually think what really those that\n\n1174\n00:52:11.290 --> 00:52:12.400\nknow me well know\n\n1175\n00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:16.920\nabout my heart what's one of your daily rituals besides your workout something\n\n1176\n00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:17.680\nthat you'd never\n\n1177\n00:52:17.680 --> 00:52:22.600\nmiss my cup of coffee all right there we go we're out of the lightning round\n\n1178\n00:52:22.600 --> 00:52:23.280\ngood job all right\n\n1179\n00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:28.500\njust a few more questions here we'll wrap this up Eric you have three kids how\n\n1180\n00:52:28.500 --> 00:52:30.080\nhave you brought\n\n1181\n00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:36.150\nthe the way that you lead at McKinsey and and take it at home it was super\n\n1182\n00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:38.080\ninteresting I just I just\n\n1183\n00:52:38.080 --> 00:52:44.010\nhad about 35 of my partners down at my place in South Carolina and I thought\n\n1184\n00:52:44.010 --> 00:52:44.480\nthis was actually\n\n1185\n00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:48.360\nI apologize this was 35 of my engagement managers and and associate partners\n\n1186\n00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:49.360\nthey're just before\n\n1187\n00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:54.190\nfolks become partner and someone asked me the question about like you know as I\n\n1188\n00:52:54.190 --> 00:52:54.640\nlook back on\n\n1189\n00:52:54.640 --> 00:53:02.160\nas my as my oldest turns 20 on Sunday do I do I feel like I was a good dad or\n\n1190\n00:53:02.160 --> 00:53:02.960\ndid I miss out on\n\n1191\n00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.910\nall the things and did I really kind of orient more towards my career and and\n\n1192\n00:53:06.910 --> 00:53:07.680\nthe firm which can\n\n1193\n00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:13.810\ntake a lot of my time and I and I and I had been feeling better as my kids had\n\n1194\n00:53:13.810 --> 00:53:14.960\ngotten older that\n\n1195\n00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:18.720\nI had done a lot to influence them and that they actually rely on me more and\n\n1196\n00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:19.440\nmore especially as\n\n1197\n00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:22.840\nthey enter this phase of their career but when this young pregnant woman asked\n\n1198\n00:53:22.840 --> 00:53:23.840\nme this question I\n\n1199\n00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:27.280\nsaid you know I don't want to answer the question but instead I just FaceTime\n\n1200\n00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.240\nmy daughter there's about\n\n1201\n00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:31.310\n40 people in this room and one of them just asked me a question I think you're\n\n1202\n00:53:31.310 --> 00:53:32.160\nbetter prepared to\n\n1203\n00:53:32.160 --> 00:53:37.840\nanswer and she goes what's the question I said well was I a good dad and she\n\n1204\n00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:38.720\ncalls for a moment and\n\n1205\n00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:46.110\nshe goes absolutely and she said well I said well why and she says I always\n\n1206\n00:53:46.110 --> 00:53:47.520\nknew whenever I needed\n\n1207\n00:53:47.520 --> 00:53:52.360\nyou you would be there no matter what right and so that was very meaningful to\n\n1208\n00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:53.360\nme as to you know\n\n1209\n00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:56.920\nthe presence and the presence of and I do think about that from a leadership\n\n1210\n00:53:56.920 --> 00:53:57.760\npoint of view like\n\n1211\n00:53:58.560 --> 00:54:04.000\nI think my colleagues would say no matter where in the world I am if they need\n\n1212\n00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:04.880\nto chat with me that\n\n1213\n00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:08.690\nday they will get me if they you know that my response time to call them back\n\n1214\n00:54:08.690 --> 00:54:09.600\nis very fast and\n\n1215\n00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:15.060\nit's I do believe that this is the the urgency point like you always have to be\n\n1216\n00:54:15.060 --> 00:54:15.600\nthere with\n\n1217\n00:54:15.600 --> 00:54:19.210\nfor Pope for people's moments of need they have to know that you will\n\n1218\n00:54:19.210 --> 00:54:20.160\nprioritize them\n\n1219\n00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:25.080\nand that's part of the trust and so I think that's been a big part of what I do\n\n1220\n00:54:25.080 --> 00:54:25.600\nat work and I think\n\n1221\n00:54:25.600 --> 00:54:30.480\nit's a big part of how I've been as a parent people talk about work-life\n\n1222\n00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:30.800\nbalance you just\n\n1223\n00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.770\ntalked about you know a few minutes ago red eyes and being away and all the\n\n1224\n00:54:35.770 --> 00:54:37.760\ntravel what's your\n\n1225\n00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.710\ntake on on on work-life balance I mean how do you think about it I honestly don\n\n1226\n00:54:42.710 --> 00:54:44.880\n't right I mean I\n\n1227\n00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:49.390\nI've always thought this a little bit of fictitious like I love what I do right\n\n1228\n00:54:49.390 --> 00:54:50.640\nand what I do I wouldn't\n\n1229\n00:54:50.640 --> 00:54:53.920\ndo what I do every day I wouldn't travel the way I do I'm with the exception of\n\n1230\n00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:54.720\nabout an 18-month\n\n1231\n00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:58.000\nperiod that I talked about as the end of my time as CFO I've been at the firm\n\n1232\n00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.000\n28 plus years I've run\n\n1233\n00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.920\nto work every day for all but that 18-month period that's an amazing that's an\n\n1234\n00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.680\namazing thing so\n\n1235\n00:55:05.680 --> 00:55:11.190\nlike I have not chosen to say I'm going to do work here and life here I rather\n\n1236\n00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:11.760\nmake them\n\n1237\n00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:16.680\nall integrate together so my kids are part of my work like you know we do these\n\n1238\n00:55:16.680 --> 00:55:17.120\nretreats I bring\n\n1239\n00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:22.070\nthe family like I they know a lot about the firm and a lot about what I do and\n\n1240\n00:55:22.070 --> 00:55:23.840\nit's part of who they\n\n1241\n00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:28.900\nare and then vice versa I bring like you know it's I've just never believed you\n\n1242\n00:55:28.900 --> 00:55:30.080\ncould ever separate\n\n1243\n00:55:30.080 --> 00:55:33.980\nthose two things if you're doing something that you care so much about and that\n\n1244\n00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:34.720\n's been true about\n\n1245\n00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:38.520\nmy passions too like I am a deeply passionate golfer but I involve that and\n\n1246\n00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:39.280\nwhat I do from a\n\n1247\n00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:42.460\nwork point of view or I happen to be a die-hard Yankee fan and I bring lots of\n\n1248\n00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:43.520\nclients to see my\n\n1249\n00:55:43.520 --> 00:55:50.280\nI found a way to make work and life very intertwined so that it never felt like\n\n1250\n00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.520\nI had to draw lines\n\n1251\n00:55:51.520 --> 00:55:56.800\nthat were this artificial balance point and it's why I don't think I've ever\n\n1252\n00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:57.040\nlike\n\n1253\n00:55:57.040 --> 00:56:03.170\nI've never gone to work like not the exception of that one small period where I\n\n1254\n00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:03.920\nwas not excited\n\n1255\n00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:09.840\nto go that day well tell me if this is true I I'm sure it is because but but I\n\n1256\n00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:10.720\nheard you've\n\n1257\n00:56:10.720 --> 00:56:16.230\nyou said you've got 10 years left before you retire at 60 years old you're such\n\n1258\n00:56:16.230 --> 00:56:17.440\na young guy\n\n1259\n00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:21.680\nwhy would you retire at 60 yeah I think my I think the last couple years it may\n\n1260\n00:56:21.680 --> 00:56:21.920\nbe\n\n1261\n00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:26.960\nJames so the the firm has this you know the firm our firm has this real\n\n1262\n00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:27.840\nincentive to\n\n1263\n00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.880\nleave by your 60th birthday and I think it's an important thing inside the firm\n\n1264\n00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:31.840\nto do that\n\n1265\n00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.120\nbecause it's how you pass the firm generationally right it's actually an\n\n1266\n00:56:35.120 --> 00:56:35.600\nimportant point\n\n1267\n00:56:35.600 --> 00:56:41.870\nit's a young person's firm and so I'm now 51 I've got you know up to nine years\n\n1268\n00:56:41.870 --> 00:56:42.480\nthat I can stay at\n\n1269\n00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.760\nthe firm as long as I'm being useful and helpful with the firm I used to think\n\n1270\n00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:46.720\nthat I would really\n\n1271\n00:56:46.720 --> 00:56:49.740\nkind of you know not want to be tethered to my phone and be able to play golf\n\n1272\n00:56:49.740 --> 00:56:50.240\nand not have to\n\n1273\n00:56:50.240 --> 00:56:54.170\nworry about the 150 emails that came through and and what I've realized over\n\n1274\n00:56:54.170 --> 00:56:55.120\nthe last probably two\n\n1275\n00:56:55.120 --> 00:56:59.030\nyears is I'm just not set up well to retire like it's just not who I am\n\n1276\n00:56:59.030 --> 00:57:00.240\npersonally and so\n\n1277\n00:57:00.240 --> 00:57:05.250\nI think now much more about working like really in it doing something\n\n1278\n00:57:05.250 --> 00:57:07.440\nmeaningful into my mid 60s\n\n1279\n00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.540\nand then after that doing something where I'm kind of giving back\n\n1280\n00:57:10.540 --> 00:57:12.000\nprofessionally in a different\n\n1281\n00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.160\nway but not maybe necessarily at the same speed for another 10 or so years and\n\n1282\n00:57:16.160 --> 00:57:16.640\nat that point\n\n1283\n00:57:16.640 --> 00:57:20.430\nthat's 20 you know that gets me 25 years from now who the hell knows how I'll\n\n1284\n00:57:20.430 --> 00:57:21.600\nfeel in 25 years from\n\n1285\n00:57:21.600 --> 00:57:28.480\nnow so you never retire Eric you you you you refire you refire I like that the\n\n1286\n00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:29.920\nretirement word is a\n\n1287\n00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:36.400\nis a bad bad word you know uh you know what do you see Eric is as your\n\n1288\n00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:37.840\nunfinished business\n\n1289\n00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:42.720\nboth for Mackenzie and you personally you know so I think the first thing is as\n\n1290\n00:57:42.720 --> 00:57:43.520\na parent it's always\n\n1291\n00:57:43.520 --> 00:57:48.440\nunfinished right I mean the reality is when when it's all said and done and\n\n1292\n00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:49.840\nthey they finally you\n\n1293\n00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:54.100\nknow put it in stone but I really want them to write is you know beloved\n\n1294\n00:57:54.100 --> 00:57:55.680\nhusband father and friend\n\n1295\n00:57:55.680 --> 00:57:59.680\nand so you have to make sure no matter what you are there with your family and\n\n1296\n00:57:59.680 --> 00:58:00.960\nwith your kids and\n\n1297\n00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:03.890\nI'm at this super interesting time is they're kind of thinking about where they\n\n1298\n00:58:03.890 --> 00:58:04.320\n're what they're\n\n1299\n00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:07.420\ngoing to start their careers at and kind of as they are in college they're in\n\n1300\n00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:08.640\nthis incredible moment\n\n1301\n00:58:08.640 --> 00:58:13.050\nand to make sure that I'm there and don't and that part never finishes if you\n\n1302\n00:58:13.050 --> 00:58:14.000\nknow as my father\n\n1303\n00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:17.050\ntaught me or my parents taught me little kids little problems big kids big\n\n1304\n00:58:17.050 --> 00:58:17.760\nproblems and so\n\n1305\n00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.640\nthose never go away and you're always kind of worried about it's one of the\n\n1306\n00:58:20.640 --> 00:58:21.200\nthings I think\n\n1307\n00:58:21.200 --> 00:58:25.420\nabout leadership a lot is you absorb the pain of your kids or of your teams but\n\n1308\n00:58:25.420 --> 00:58:26.960\nyou celebrate\n\n1309\n00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.400\nand live and bask in the glory of their successes and so that part is not done\n\n1310\n00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:36.640\nprofessionally it's funny I talked about this kind of being comfortable I'm\n\n1311\n00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:37.440\nmuch more centered now\n\n1312\n00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.720\nthan I ever was and so I don't have a lot more that I have to personally feel\n\n1313\n00:58:40.720 --> 00:58:42.240\nlike I have to prove\n\n1314\n00:58:42.240 --> 00:58:45.930\nI do a lot of what I do and I especially as I've been leading inside the firm\n\n1315\n00:58:45.930 --> 00:58:46.240\ntoday\n\n1316\n00:58:46.240 --> 00:58:50.010\nas I think a lot about this work stewardship I think I'll I know the firm\n\n1317\n00:58:50.010 --> 00:58:51.280\nMcKenzie turns 100\n\n1318\n00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:54.970\nthis year I don't think we I don't think any of us know the exact day but one\n\n1319\n00:58:54.970 --> 00:58:55.680\nof the things I was\n\n1320\n00:58:55.680 --> 00:58:59.850\nI've been really struck by is and if you think about the word stewardship as\n\n1321\n00:58:59.850 --> 00:59:01.680\nopposed to ownership\n\n1322\n00:59:02.080 --> 00:59:05.770\nI think of it as you kind of get a moment in time where you are the caretaker\n\n1323\n00:59:05.770 --> 00:59:06.720\nof the institution\n\n1324\n00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:12.130\nand so until like you stand on the shoulders of those that came before you and\n\n1325\n00:59:12.130 --> 00:59:12.800\nhanded you this\n\n1326\n00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:16.590\nincredible thing and then your job is to make it better and hand it to the next\n\n1327\n00:59:16.590 --> 00:59:17.360\ngeneration and\n\n1328\n00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:22.190\nthen you've kind of done your job and I haven't yet been you know been asked to\n\n1329\n00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:22.560\ngive it to the\n\n1330\n00:59:22.560 --> 00:59:27.450\nnext generation fully and so until I do my job is to continue to make the firm\n\n1331\n00:59:27.450 --> 00:59:28.480\nbetter and I think\n\n1332\n00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:32.980\npart of that is continuing to build the culture and you know that attracts what\n\n1333\n00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:33.600\nI think is the most\n\n1334\n00:59:33.600 --> 00:59:36.700\namazing talent gets them to want to stay and do the things we do which I think\n\n1335\n00:59:36.700 --> 00:59:37.520\nis a noble purpose\n\n1336\n00:59:37.520 --> 00:59:41.760\nand then it's probably to help position us for what I think is going to be this\n\n1337\n00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.480\ngreatest moment\n\n1338\n00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:46.700\nof transformational change that I've lived through which is this AI moment and\n\n1339\n00:59:46.700 --> 00:59:47.200\nso how do you get\n\n1340\n00:59:47.200 --> 00:59:52.120\nthe organization ready to do that in a partnership and then and so I think once\n\n1341\n00:59:52.120 --> 00:59:53.520\nthose things are done\n\n1342\n00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:57.610\nI think the firm will be happy to say goodbye to me. Last question what's one\n\n1343\n00:59:57.610 --> 00:59:58.720\npiece of advice\n\n1344\n00:59:58.720 --> 01:00:02.640\nyou'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? I think great leaders are\n\n1345\n01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:04.000\nmuch more about\n\n1346\n01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.310\nthe team they leave behind than about themselves and so I think if you are self\n\n1347\n01:00:08.310 --> 01:00:08.960\n-oriented and are\n\n1348\n01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:13.210\ndoing this for you or doing it for the wrong purpose great leaders think about\n\n1349\n01:00:13.210 --> 01:00:14.000\nhow they make\n\n1350\n01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:18.920\nevery one of the team members better and that's their job they chose that team\n\n1351\n01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:19.520\nbecause they believe\n\n1352\n01:00:19.520 --> 01:00:24.440\ncollectively that team can do something magical their job as the leader is to\n\n1353\n01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:24.960\nmake every\n\n1354\n01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.520\none of those people reach their full potential so that the collectively they\n\n1355\n01:00:28.520 --> 01:00:29.360\ncan achieve that\n\n1356\n01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:33.120\nimpossible if they do it because they think that team is leveraged for them\n\n1357\n01:00:33.120 --> 01:00:34.960\nthat is selfish and\n\n1358\n01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:37.850\nthey are a bad leader and I think that's a really important difference. You\n\n1359\n01:00:37.850 --> 01:00:40.720\nknow Eric this has been\n\n1360\n01:00:40.720 --> 01:00:45.640\nyou know a great conversation I want to thank you for taking the time you\n\n1361\n01:00:45.640 --> 01:00:47.680\ndefinitely are smart\n\n1362\n01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:53.650\nthere's no question about that and I've had the privilege of getting to know\n\n1363\n01:00:53.650 --> 01:00:54.960\nyou and I think\n\n1364\n01:00:54.960 --> 01:01:00.170\nwhat if there's anybody that doesn't realize that you don't you don't have a\n\n1365\n01:01:00.170 --> 01:01:01.920\nheart they might not\n\n1366\n01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:07.790\nhave one okay because I think you have that the unique combination of being you\n\n1367\n01:01:07.790 --> 01:01:09.200\nknow smart with\n\n1368\n01:01:09.200 --> 01:01:16.000\nheart and it's it's I'm sure that's why your clients love you and and people\n\n1369\n01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:16.560\nlove you since\n\n1370\n01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:23.200\nyou start being that assholes CFO. It is true. Sometimes courses are courses\n\n1371\n01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:23.600\nand I just had\n\n1372\n01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:27.640\nto play the role for the moment. Thank you I really appreciate you. It's\n\n1373\n01:01:27.640 --> 01:01:28.400\namazing thank you.\n\n1374\n01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:37.920\nDavid I feel a whole lot smarter after listening to that interview between you\n\n1375\n01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:38.320\nand Eric.\n\n1376\n01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:42.480\nWell that's the way I should be when you talk to a consultant they should make\n\n1377\n01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.120\nyou a whole lot\n\n1378\n01:01:43.120 --> 01:01:47.760\nsmarter and give you insights that you wouldn't come up with on their own so I\n\n1379\n01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.400\ndon't know that\n\n1380\n01:01:48.400 --> 01:01:53.320\nyou could pay Eric a finer compliment than that. I love this episode David and\n\n1381\n01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:53.760\nobviously it's\n\n1382\n01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.320\nvery AI forward and I think you know it's people say this all the time but for\n\n1383\n01:01:57.320 --> 01:01:58.160\nsome reason in this\n\n1384\n01:01:58.160 --> 01:02:01.870\nepisode it held a little more weight when Eric says that this is a once in a\n\n1385\n01:02:01.870 --> 01:02:03.200\ngeneration technology\n\n1386\n01:02:03.200 --> 01:02:07.130\ntransition and we all know that AI is a big deal and it's changing everything\n\n1387\n01:02:07.130 --> 01:02:08.400\nbut the way that he\n\n1388\n01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:12.650\napproaches it and teaches it and encourages other leaders to teach their people\n\n1389\n01:02:12.650 --> 01:02:13.680\nabout it is so\n\n1390\n01:02:13.680 --> 01:02:17.680\nsignificant and I love the way that he broke it down and just made it really\n\n1391\n01:02:17.680 --> 01:02:18.320\npractical for\n\n1392\n01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:22.450\neverybody and I'm excited David to get your take on some of those same concepts\n\n1393\n01:02:22.450 --> 01:02:23.200\nthat you and Eric\n\n1394\n01:02:23.200 --> 01:02:28.400\ntalked about in this debrief of your conversation. Well what I like to say\n\n1395\n01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:29.280\npointing out a couple\n\n1396\n01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:32.840\nof things number one is that obviously everybody knows AI can drive\n\n1397\n01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:34.800\nproductivity you know by reducing\n\n1398\n01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:40.580\ncosts and the typical employee count that you have in your organization you\n\n1399\n01:02:40.580 --> 01:02:41.280\nknow that's that's\n\n1400\n01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:45.340\nsomething that you know people readily acknowledge but what he brings up is the\n\n1401\n01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:47.120\nfact that as we get\n\n1402\n01:02:47.120 --> 01:02:52.160\nsmarter and smarter with AI we're going to drive huge revenue generation and\n\n1403\n01:02:52.160 --> 01:02:54.000\nsatisfy customers even\n\n1404\n01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:58.920\nmore and I think that's what really has him excited is the potential that we\n\n1405\n01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.480\nhave to use AI to really\n\n1406\n01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:06.610\ngrow businesses and you know drive their sales and profits much more\n\n1407\n01:03:06.610 --> 01:03:08.080\nsignificantly.\n\n1408\n01:03:08.080 --> 01:03:11.840\nThe other thing that I loved you were going to go ahead and you were going to\n\n1409\n01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:12.960\nsay something cool.\n\n1410\n01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:17.270\nI was just going to say you know everybody's manager boss is trying to figure\n\n1411\n01:03:17.270 --> 01:03:17.600\nout how to\n\n1412\n01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:20.770\nincorporate AI into their work stream but even if you're an individual\n\n1413\n01:03:20.770 --> 01:03:22.000\ncontributor I would go back\n\n1414\n01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:25.690\nand listen to those three things that Eric says around what he believes AI is\n\n1415\n01:03:25.690 --> 01:03:26.560\ngoing to be most\n\n1416\n01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:30.800\nimpactful around especially pay attention to the third one where he talks about\n\n1417\n01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:32.160\nhow it's going to\n\n1418\n01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:38.000\nallow for much more net new business for any company so even if you're an\n\n1419\n01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.040\nindividual contributor\n\n1420\n01:03:39.040 --> 01:03:43.960\nand not in charge of helping your entire team adopt AI in all these different\n\n1421\n01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:44.800\nways how can you\n\n1422\n01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:49.720\nthink through what AI will allow you to do in terms of generating net new\n\n1423\n01:03:49.720 --> 01:03:51.120\nbusiness and coming\n\n1424\n01:03:51.120 --> 01:03:55.180\nup with these new revenue streams because when you take that to your team and\n\n1425\n01:03:55.180 --> 01:03:55.920\nto your boss\n\n1426\n01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:00.480\nit will not only show them that you are an active and avid learner and adopting\n\n1427\n01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:01.280\nAI but it will show\n\n1428\n01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:06.200\nthat you have a more enterprise view of your organization. Yeah a great point\n\n1429\n01:04:06.200 --> 01:04:06.880\nand speaking of\n\n1430\n01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:10.460\nthe enterprise and how the enterprise should build into the culture I thought\n\n1431\n01:04:10.460 --> 01:04:11.760\nhe brought up a\n\n1432\n01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:17.280\nphenomenal point which is what leaders are going to need to do now and every\n\n1433\n01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:18.320\nleader should be doing\n\n1434\n01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:25.760\nfor themselves is learn how to ask AI really great questions because the better\n\n1435\n01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:26.800\nquestions you ask\n\n1436\n01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:32.640\nthe better the input you're going to get from chat GBT or whoever you go to so\n\n1437\n01:04:32.640 --> 01:04:34.480\nto me that is a\n\n1438\n01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:38.320\ngreat insight and when I think about it the best leaders always have known how\n\n1439\n01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:39.440\nto ask great questions\n\n1440\n01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:43.130\nyou know the best leaders ask questions of their people they ask questions from\n\n1441\n01:04:43.130 --> 01:04:44.640\ncustomers you know\n\n1442\n01:04:44.640 --> 01:04:49.860\nthey ask questions from investors or you name it they're very good at driving\n\n1443\n01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:50.960\nfor insights through\n\n1444\n01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:56.810\nbeing curious and I think teaching people and teaching yourself how to ask\n\n1445\n01:04:56.810 --> 01:04:58.080\nreally insightful\n\n1446\n01:04:58.080 --> 01:05:02.970\nquestions is a great leadership skill everybody should everybody should really\n\n1447\n01:05:02.970 --> 01:05:03.680\nbuild in and\n\n1448\n01:05:03.680 --> 01:05:07.390\nyou know people always talk about the importance of listening that is\n\n1449\n01:05:07.390 --> 01:05:09.280\nabsolutely true but you know\n\n1450\n01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:13.100\nit's much better to listen after after you ask some really good questions\n\n1451\n01:05:13.100 --> 01:05:13.920\nbecause that's when\n\n1452\n01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:18.820\nyou really got to get the best insights he talks about being a good prompt\n\n1453\n01:05:18.820 --> 01:05:19.520\nengineer and that was a\n\n1454\n01:05:19.520 --> 01:05:24.440\nvery good piece of feedback that I've taken from this conversation and even you\n\n1455\n01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:25.200\nknow since I've\n\n1456\n01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:29.070\nlistened to it and since I've been using Jim and I in chat GBT I try to stop\n\n1457\n01:05:29.070 --> 01:05:30.320\nmyself before I hit\n\n1458\n01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:35.360\nenter on my chat and I say okay is this prompt going to elicit the informed\n\n1459\n01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:37.680\npiece of data that I'm\n\n1460\n01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:42.920\nreally looking for yeah and and the better we all get it it it it it really you\n\n1461\n01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:44.000\nknow clearly\n\n1462\n01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:49.660\narticulating those prompts I think the more power we're going to get out of AI.\n\n1463\n01:05:49.660 --> 01:05:50.640\nSwitching gears\n\n1464\n01:05:50.640 --> 01:05:54.600\njust a little bit David I want to talk about failure and in the episode Eric\n\n1465\n01:05:54.600 --> 01:05:55.360\nshares this\n\n1466\n01:05:55.360 --> 01:06:00.900\nincredibly vulnerable story about failing as a CFO he lost confidence of his\n\n1467\n01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:01.680\npartners\n\n1468\n01:06:01.680 --> 01:06:05.040\nbecame unwelcome in meetings he talks about how awkward it was when he walked\n\n1469\n01:06:05.040 --> 01:06:05.760\nin the door in\n\n1470\n01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:10.720\nmeetings after that period of time but he worked his way back in and rebuilt\n\n1471\n01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:11.760\ntrust and\n\n1472\n01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:18.230\nand gained the the approval of his team for someone who needs to repair trust\n\n1473\n01:06:18.230 --> 01:06:18.800\nfor the team\n\n1474\n01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:22.880\nafter a pretty significant misstep what would you tell them to do I think the\n\n1475\n01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:23.680\nfirst thing you have\n\n1476\n01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:30.430\nto do is is go public with the fact that you were accountable take\n\n1477\n01:06:30.430 --> 01:06:33.440\naccountability say hey this was\n\n1478\n01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:39.520\nmy job this was my role and it didn't work out well now that's one thing but\n\n1479\n01:06:39.520 --> 01:06:40.560\nthe the most important\n\n1480\n01:06:40.560 --> 01:06:45.220\nthing I think is what can we learn from it you know what can we learn so that\n\n1481\n01:06:45.220 --> 01:06:46.400\nit doesn't happen\n\n1482\n01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.240\nagain or what can we learn that we can build into whatever we're working on to\n\n1483\n01:06:51.240 --> 01:06:51.840\nmake sure that\n\n1484\n01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:56.760\nyou know we have you know a much higher success factor I think taking\n\n1485\n01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:58.240\naccountability for\n\n1486\n01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:03.320\nmessing up to the fact that hey you're the you know you acknowledge the fact\n\n1487\n01:07:03.320 --> 01:07:04.080\nyou could have done it\n\n1488\n01:07:04.080 --> 01:07:08.020\nbetter and then learning from it is great and then the third thing is get your\n\n1489\n01:07:08.020 --> 01:07:09.360\nhead out of the sand\n\n1490\n01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:14.650\nokay keep your head high you know everybody makes mistakes you know still stay\n\n1491\n01:07:14.650 --> 01:07:16.480\npositive about\n\n1492\n01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:22.550\nyour capability and what you can you can bring to the party so don't get into a\n\n1493\n01:07:22.550 --> 01:07:23.920\nwoe is me mode\n\n1494\n01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:27.880\nbecause that'll just take you further down the tank you know people really want\n\n1495\n01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:28.880\nto be inspired\n\n1496\n01:07:28.880 --> 01:07:34.710\nby people who are vulnerable they're honest they take about accountability but\n\n1497\n01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:35.760\nthey move on\n\n1498\n01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:41.520\nbecause they've learned and that energy is contagious it also makes me think\n\n1499\n01:07:41.520 --> 01:07:42.960\nabout all of the small\n\n1500\n01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.960\nthings that we do to build trust with people like of course there are the the\n\n1501\n01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:48.080\nlarger things that\n\n1502\n01:07:48.080 --> 01:07:50.950\nallow us to build trust with people you know we say we're going to accomplish\n\n1503\n01:07:50.950 --> 01:07:51.920\nsomething and we take\n\n1504\n01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:57.120\nour team with us to do it but when you think about trust on a more almost acute\n\n1505\n01:07:57.120 --> 01:07:58.880\nscale trust is built\n\n1506\n01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:04.100\nby doing what you say you're going to do over time so I would also add to that\n\n1507\n01:08:04.100 --> 01:08:05.200\nDavid you know if\n\n1508\n01:08:05.200 --> 01:08:09.320\nyou do need to build trust in addition to saying hey everybody I made this huge\n\n1509\n01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:10.240\nmistake here's what\n\n1510\n01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:13.840\nwe can learn from it I also think that the more you can show up for your team\n\n1511\n01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:14.880\nsay you're going to do\n\n1512\n01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:18.160\nsomething and follow through on those things no matter how large the scale of\n\n1513\n01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:19.040\nthose things are\n\n1514\n01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:25.750\nthat'll go a really long way in helping you repair what has been broken yeah if\n\n1515\n01:08:25.750 --> 01:08:26.960\nthe mistake or whatever\n\n1516\n01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:32.180\nyou did that didn't work out is is more of a one-off and not really reflective\n\n1517\n01:08:32.180 --> 01:08:33.200\nof your overall\n\n1518\n01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:38.120\nperformance and that you've built trust over time I mean people are much more\n\n1519\n01:08:38.120 --> 01:08:39.760\nlikely to give you\n\n1520\n01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:44.680\na do over or to follow you in any of you and I couldn't agree more you know\n\n1521\n01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:46.560\nbefore we go I was\n\n1522\n01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:51.970\njust thinking about one of my my major league failures when I was running\n\n1523\n01:08:51.970 --> 01:08:53.600\nmarketing for pizza\n\n1524\n01:08:53.600 --> 01:09:01.220\nwe had this a great idea to team up with back to the future too so we we\n\n1525\n01:09:01.220 --> 01:09:02.000\ndecided what we were\n\n1526\n01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:05.170\ngoing to do is get all these people and back to the future two to wear these\n\n1527\n01:09:05.170 --> 01:09:06.000\nsolar shades he's\n\n1528\n01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:11.220\nreally modernistic solar shades and they would be they you know they would be\n\n1529\n01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:12.480\nvery popular and\n\n1530\n01:09:12.480 --> 01:09:16.800\njust be all over the movie and then everybody would want to have them and\n\n1531\n01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:20.200\nand once they wanted to have them the only place that they could get them was\n\n1532\n01:09:20.200 --> 01:09:21.360\nguess where our pizza\n\n1533\n01:09:21.360 --> 01:09:28.880\nso we we we created these goofy looking modernistic looking sunglasses and the\n\n1534\n01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:30.240\nthe problem was is\n\n1535\n01:09:30.240 --> 01:09:35.730\nthe the movie broke in December okay and not too many people you know where\n\n1536\n01:09:35.730 --> 01:09:37.040\nsunglasses in in\n\n1537\n01:09:37.040 --> 01:09:40.600\nDecember and that's when we had the promotion and the other problem was I'll\n\n1538\n01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:42.320\nnever forget standing up\n\n1539\n01:09:42.320 --> 01:09:47.980\nand making a big presentation to internally and with the franchisees about how\n\n1540\n01:09:47.980 --> 01:09:48.560\nwe were going to be\n\n1541\n01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:56.170\nthe largest seller of sunglasses in the world okay and guess what we're going\n\n1542\n01:09:56.170 --> 01:09:57.360\nto do it in December\n\n1543\n01:09:57.360 --> 01:10:00.640\nI know that sounds really stupid but we didn't have total control over the\n\n1544\n01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:01.680\nrelease of the movie\n\n1545\n01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:06.600\nbut I'll never forget going to Chicago and talking to this restaurant general\n\n1546\n01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:07.040\nmanager and\n\n1547\n01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:11.960\nI asked him I asked him a question not necessarily a great insightful question\n\n1548\n01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:12.560\nbut I said hey you\n\n1549\n01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:16.590\nknow what would you like to see have us have us do you know in the marketing\n\n1550\n01:10:16.590 --> 01:10:18.480\nworld that we're\n\n1551\n01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:22.360\nnot doing now and could could help you drive sales and he says I think he ought\n\n1552\n01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:23.280\nto go fire that\n\n1553\n01:10:23.280 --> 01:10:30.160\nasshole that came up with the solar stage for lunch so anyway I'm not saying I\n\n1554\n01:10:30.160 --> 01:10:31.280\ntotally came up\n\n1555\n01:10:31.280 --> 01:10:36.500\nfor that by myself but I took 1000% accountability for it because I believe\n\n1556\n01:10:36.500 --> 01:10:37.280\nanything that happens\n\n1557\n01:10:37.280 --> 01:10:43.120\non your watch is your accountability and I also told the story many many times\n\n1558\n01:10:43.120 --> 01:10:44.000\nof all the things\n\n1559\n01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.700\nthat we could have done differently to ensure a better outcome the other thing\n\n1560\n01:10:47.700 --> 01:10:48.640\nwas to have an\n\n1561\n01:10:48.640 --> 01:10:55.920\nironclad contract with the studio because what happened is that I think the the\n\n1562\n01:10:55.920 --> 01:10:57.200\nthe solar shades\n\n1563\n01:10:57.200 --> 01:11:01.610\nwere only in like two or three scenes and you could barely see them the only\n\n1564\n01:11:01.610 --> 01:11:02.400\npeople that knew they\n\n1565\n01:11:02.400 --> 01:11:09.150\nwere there was me so you know we learned from this and the other thing that was\n\n1566\n01:11:09.150 --> 01:11:10.320\nkind of interesting\n\n1567\n01:11:10.320 --> 01:11:15.240\nis that that came on the back of like five or six home run promotions you know\n\n1568\n01:11:15.240 --> 01:11:16.640\neverything we were\n\n1569\n01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:21.560\ndoing at that point in time was working and so when that happens you start to\n\n1570\n01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:22.560\nstart smelling your\n\n1571\n01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.360\nown perfume and you start thinking that you know you're not going to really\n\n1572\n01:11:25.360 --> 01:11:26.640\nmake too many mistakes\n\n1573\n01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.920\nand I think that's when you're most vulnerable to make your mistakes is when\n\n1574\n01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:30.960\nyou when you when you\n\n1575\n01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:34.810\nwhen you think you're you're you're better than you you really are and our\n\n1576\n01:11:34.810 --> 01:11:36.080\nmarketing team was\n\n1577\n01:11:36.080 --> 01:11:40.980\nwe thought there was nothing that we couldn't do and I was leading that charge\n\n1578\n01:11:40.980 --> 01:11:41.600\nand once we\n\n1579\n01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:45.670\nacknowledged the fact we made mistakes we we sold we bartered off all those\n\n1580\n01:11:45.670 --> 01:11:46.960\nsunglasses that we had\n\n1581\n01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:53.140\nleft and and we moved on but I think the reason why the organization the\n\n1582\n01:11:53.140 --> 01:11:54.960\nfranchisees and everybody\n\n1583\n01:11:54.960 --> 01:12:01.880\nwas so accepting of it was because we had had so many great successes and and\n\n1584\n01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:03.040\nalso we were very\n\n1585\n01:12:03.040 --> 01:12:06.490\nhonest about the fact that we we could have done a whole lot better do you\n\n1586\n01:12:06.490 --> 01:12:07.680\nstill have warehouses\n\n1587\n01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:13.020\nfull of those solar shades I don't know but I do have a picture of some people\n\n1588\n01:12:13.020 --> 01:12:14.160\nwearing them and\n\n1589\n01:12:14.160 --> 01:12:19.120\nI kind of I kind of keep it around every now and then just take a look at it\n\n1590\n01:12:19.120 --> 01:12:20.240\nbecause it definitely\n\n1591\n01:12:20.240 --> 01:12:26.080\nwill keep you humble I love it I love it okay David the final topic that I want\n\n1592\n01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:27.520\nto debrief with you\n\n1593\n01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:32.440\nis the idea around consultants obviously Eric is heading up one of the most\n\n1594\n01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:33.360\nsuccessful largest\n\n1595\n01:12:33.360 --> 01:12:36.920\nconsulting firms in the world and I love in the episode I mean you just\n\n1596\n01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:38.400\nstraight up confess to\n\n1597\n01:12:38.400 --> 01:12:44.670\na consultant about how you think consultants are for lazy leaders and I know\n\n1598\n01:12:44.670 --> 01:12:45.920\nyou probably don't\n\n1599\n01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:50.190\nreally mean that but I'm curious about your thoughts on consultants has has it\n\n1600\n01:12:50.190 --> 01:12:52.240\nevolved yeah well first\n\n1601\n01:12:52.240 --> 01:12:58.380\nof all I overstated that you know and because I think that I guess I'd have to\n\n1602\n01:12:58.380 --> 01:12:59.600\nbe a lazy leader\n\n1603\n01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:04.860\nbecause I have used consultants in that and in the past but the point I was\n\n1604\n01:13:04.860 --> 01:13:06.240\ntrying to make is that\n\n1605\n01:13:06.240 --> 01:13:10.550\ntoo many times the leaders use consultants for everything and they become a cr\n\n1606\n01:13:10.550 --> 01:13:11.680\nutch and they the\n\n1607\n01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.650\nconsultants constantly doing the thinking and the organization versus the\n\n1608\n01:13:15.650 --> 01:13:16.720\nleaders I don't think\n\n1609\n01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:21.030\nyou outsource your thinking you don't outsource the accountability for thinking\n\n1610\n01:13:21.030 --> 01:13:21.840\nand leading to\n\n1611\n01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:26.890\nsomebody else you know in fact I had a great consultant help me in an area that\n\n1612\n01:13:26.890 --> 01:13:27.760\nI needed when\n\n1613\n01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:31.550\nI first went to KFC I had this great idea to have a recognition culture and was\n\n1614\n01:13:31.550 --> 01:13:32.640\ngiving out all kinds\n\n1615\n01:13:32.640 --> 01:13:36.710\nof fun wars like floppy chickens but I would do that when I go on market tours\n\n1616\n01:13:36.710 --> 01:13:37.600\nbut I was only\n\n1617\n01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:42.520\none person and I knew that one person couldn't change a culture you had to put\n\n1618\n01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:43.040\nprocess and\n\n1619\n01:13:43.040 --> 01:13:47.300\ndiscipline around it you had to have training you had to have something to be a\n\n1620\n01:13:47.300 --> 01:13:48.480\ncatalyst and\n\n1621\n01:13:48.480 --> 01:13:54.040\nLarry sin who was the father of culture literally was named the father of the\n\n1622\n01:13:54.040 --> 01:13:55.440\nword culture and was\n\n1623\n01:13:55.440 --> 01:14:00.360\nfrom Stanford a great researcher he somehow he stumbled in my office one day\n\n1624\n01:14:00.360 --> 01:14:01.920\nand and we met and\n\n1625\n01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:05.810\nhe helped me develop all the all the processes we needed to take our culture\n\n1626\n01:14:05.810 --> 01:14:06.720\nglobally and make\n\n1627\n01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.640\nrecognition the thing that we became famous for and if I wouldn't add Larry I\n\n1628\n01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:12.240\nwould have been a\n\n1629\n01:14:12.240 --> 01:14:17.340\none-man band but he showed me how to scale it so he provided tremendous value\n\n1630\n01:14:17.340 --> 01:14:18.240\non that front\n\n1631\n01:14:18.240 --> 01:14:23.900\nand I've used consultants in the past to help us really identify areas to to\n\n1632\n01:14:23.900 --> 01:14:26.480\ncut costs in particular\n\n1633\n01:14:26.480 --> 01:14:32.320\nI just think consultants can be enormously powerful if they're used selectively\n\n1634\n01:14:32.320 --> 01:14:33.440\nand for the right\n\n1635\n01:14:33.440 --> 01:14:38.980\nreasons and not a crutch but I also think that Eric brought up a really good\n\n1636\n01:14:38.980 --> 01:14:39.920\npoint is that\n\n1637\n01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:44.840\nconsultants can be your thought buddy you know basically you know everybody\n\n1638\n01:14:44.840 --> 01:14:45.840\nneeds somebody on the\n\n1639\n01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:49.570\noutside to give them some independent thinking and and to push him where there\n\n1640\n01:14:49.570 --> 01:14:50.720\n's no other agenda\n\n1641\n01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:55.790\nother than to care about that that person and that company and and that's what\n\n1642\n01:14:55.790 --> 01:14:57.600\nEric does and\n\n1643\n01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:01.640\nthat's what separates him from the pack you know I've talked to many many\n\n1644\n01:15:01.640 --> 01:15:02.720\npeople who've had the\n\n1645\n01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:09.650\nbenefit of working with Eric and Eric cares about the leader he cares about the\n\n1646\n01:15:09.650 --> 01:15:10.880\ncompany he cares\n\n1647\n01:15:10.880 --> 01:15:15.800\nabout the people in the company and there's nothing that he won't do to uncover\n\n1648\n01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:16.400\nevery asset\n\n1649\n01:15:16.400 --> 01:15:22.810\nthat Mackenzie has to to help help people win and they feel that and they know\n\n1650\n01:15:22.810 --> 01:15:23.760\nthat he's in the\n\n1651\n01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:28.680\nfoxhole with him and when you can have somebody as smart as Eric in the foxhole\n\n1652\n01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:30.080\nwith you uh you've\n\n1653\n01:15:30.080 --> 01:15:34.100\ngot a real real thought buddy and you've got a real action oriented person that\n\n1654\n01:15:34.100 --> 01:15:34.640\n's going to help\n\n1655\n01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:38.760\nyou win in the marketplace and that's exactly what he does I love that he says\n\n1656\n01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:39.920\nyou know in our very\n\n1657\n01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:45.160\nbest engagements there is no distinction between Mackenzie and the client\n\n1658\n01:15:45.160 --> 01:15:47.200\nbecause we're so intertwined\n\n1659\n01:15:47.200 --> 01:15:50.480\nand everyone's so on the same page and we're all in this thing together trying\n\n1660\n01:15:50.480 --> 01:15:51.040\nto accomplish\n\n1661\n01:15:51.040 --> 01:15:54.930\nthis goal that nobody knows who's the consultant and who's the employee and I\n\n1662\n01:15:54.930 --> 01:15:56.000\njust love that because\n\n1663\n01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:00.420\nit shows exactly what you just said David he gets in there and wants nothing\n\n1664\n01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:01.200\nbut the very best and\n\n1665\n01:16:01.200 --> 01:16:05.400\nwill use everything available to him to get there and we talk about that uh uh\n\n1666\n01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:06.800\nthe concept of the\n\n1667\n01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:11.220\nshadow of the leader often and you know when you think about him running you\n\n1668\n01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.560\nknow such a huge piece\n\n1669\n01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:18.410\nof Mackenzie he's cast in a huge shadow that I'm sure you know drives a client\n\n1670\n01:16:18.410 --> 01:16:19.440\nfocus in that\n\n1671\n01:16:19.440 --> 01:16:24.650\norganization that's critical but if you can have people on your team no matter\n\n1672\n01:16:24.650 --> 01:16:25.680\nwhere they come\n\n1673\n01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:31.510\nfrom and you all feel as as one and you're all unified and you you you're all\n\n1674\n01:16:31.510 --> 01:16:32.560\nworking on trying\n\n1675\n01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:36.440\nto do the best to move things forward that's when you've got it made and to\n\n1676\n01:16:36.440 --> 01:16:37.440\nhave really really\n\n1677\n01:16:37.440 --> 01:16:41.340\nsmart people like they have it Mackenzie doing that for you man that's a that's\n\n1678\n01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:42.400\nthat's that can be a\n\n1679\n01:16:42.400 --> 01:16:49.150\nbig advantage so just let me repeat consultants are okay uh but they just\n\n1680\n01:16:49.150 --> 01:16:51.120\nshouldn't be used as a\n\n1681\n01:16:51.120 --> 01:16:56.780\ncrutch thought buddy thought buddy I love and I would love to have Eric is my\n\n1682\n01:16:56.780 --> 01:16:57.360\nthought buddy because\n\n1683\n01:16:57.360 --> 01:17:03.040\nhe's a lot smarter than me you don't have to agree with me no I want him for\n\n1684\n01:17:03.040 --> 01:17:04.080\nhis my thought buddy\n\n1685\n01:17:04.080 --> 01:17:07.120\noh okay I thought you were saying he's the last one or me and yes you're right\n\n1686\n01:17:07.120 --> 01:17:08.000\nbut don't agree with\n\n1687\n01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:14.080\nme David thank you so much for another fantastic episode of how leaders lead\n\n1688\n01:17:14.080 --> 01:17:14.880\nand thank you to our\n\n1689\n01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:20.960\nlisteners for tuning in to another week's episode we will see you next Thursday\n\n1690\n01:17:21.120 --> 01:17:30.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL7351951584.mp3","dx_media_id",3428,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-02-19","itunes_episode_id",279,"youtube_id","VYEtQ7G9huc","2026-08-19T21:33:23.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with Eric Kutcher, Chair of McKinsey North America, and discover how every leader should be thinking about AI right 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