[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3342/extend-radical-hospitality-to-every-business-relationship","id",3342,"title","Extend radical hospitality to every business relationship","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.800\nWe did over 180,000 personalizations last year in 2025, and when you think\n\n2\n00:00:06.800 --> 00:00:09.360\nabout people that are\n\n3\n00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:13.600\nwilling to kind of wait around a little bit, it may take 15 minutes to get your\n\n4\n00:00:13.600 --> 00:00:14.960\nbranding done,\n\n5\n00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:18.780\nbut it's a little more dwell time in the store. We get to know them better,\n\n6\n00:00:18.780 --> 00:00:19.760\noffer them, again,\n\n7\n00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:24.500\nalcoholic, non-alcoholic beverage. So the dwell time, we get to know our\n\n8\n00:00:24.500 --> 00:00:25.360\nconsumers a little bit\n\n9\n00:00:25.360 --> 00:00:30.460\nbetter, and I think it really helps to have an emotional connection with them,\n\n10\n00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:31.520\nand at the end of\n\n11\n00:00:31.520 --> 00:00:36.510\nthe day, it's the long-term value that we want, and we want people coming back\n\n12\n00:00:36.510 --> 00:00:37.760\nto visit us, and\n\n13\n00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:42.560\nwhether they're buying or not come have a beverage with us and chat. So it's a\n\n14\n00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:43.200\nbig part of what\n\n15\n00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:49.210\nwe're doing. A radical hospitality is now kind of spilled over into really\n\n16\n00:00:49.210 --> 00:00:49.920\neverything we do.\n\n17\n00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:56.160\nI'm kind of a big believer in this principal-based management, coke industries\n\n18\n00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:56.400\nthat\n\n19\n00:00:56.400 --> 00:01:01.640\nstarted a lot of that. We want to be the brand that people want to work with,\n\n20\n00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:02.080\nwhether you're\n\n21\n00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:07.410\na factory partner, whether you're our wholesale partner or a consumer. If you\n\n22\n00:01:07.410 --> 00:01:08.320\nhad to choose one\n\n23\n00:01:08.320 --> 00:01:11.910\nbrand that you could only work with, I would like them to say it's Tacovas\n\n24\n00:01:11.910 --> 00:01:14.720\nbecause of that radical\n\n25\n00:01:14.720 --> 00:01:18.680\nhospitality, and it doesn't mean we're giving everything away. It just means we\n\n26\n00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:19.920\n're straight\n\n27\n00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:24.730\nshooters. We're transparent about what we're doing. For a factory partner, I\n\n28\n00:01:24.730 --> 00:01:26.320\nwant a 10-year\n\n29\n00:01:26.320 --> 00:01:30.160\nrelationship. It has to be when, when. If I'm grabbing margin one year, they're\n\n30\n00:01:30.160 --> 00:01:30.480\ngoing to have\n\n31\n00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.720\nto grab it another year. We have to find ways that our relationship is\n\n32\n00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:36.160\nsustainable over a long\n\n33\n00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:40.400\nperiod of time because we're not going to own factories, but we certainly can\n\n34\n00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:41.760\nbe strategic partners\n\n35\n00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:47.790\nwith them as well. So it's a concept that and/or our employees, we want to make\n\n36\n00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:48.880\nsure if we're not\n\n37\n00:01:48.880 --> 00:01:53.890\nbeing radically hospitable to our employee base, how can we expect that they in\n\n38\n00:01:53.890 --> 00:01:54.640\nturn do the same\n\n39\n00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.200\nfor our consumers?\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",412249,"end_time",527989,"keywords","Customers, customer service, customer experience, hospitality, partners, service","slug","extend-radical-hospitality-to-every-business-relationship","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","X01500VSsv3bxbZu7YEF01nFa7dUAjBKPJA1Ccym025XgFA","mux_asset_id","oc4j8cCkt6RnsomcYgpj8Utq985bM6sXg3x00ngMrnAA","leader_id",280,"episode_id",431,"updated_at","2026-05-28T15:30:54.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3342/extend-radical-hospitality-to-every-business-relationship","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Serve others with radical hospitality","serve-others-with-radical-hospitality","Give every person great service and attention in your business, whether that's customers, employees, or partners. That kind of 'radical hospitality' helps you build relationships and create a competitive advantage no one can replicate.","summary","

If you lead a business, you know providing great service is vital.

But what does that actually mean?

For David Lafitte, CEO of the popular Western retailer Tecovas, it means radical hospitality. Stuff like offering shoppers free drinks, personalization, and a space to linger. Treating everyone who walks through the doors like a high-value customer. Encouraging staff to create relationships, not just transactions.

And as you’ll see in this conversation, that kind of people-first mentality doesn’t apply only to customer service. It can also change the way you build your whole business, and it might just be the competitive advantage you’ve been looking for.

You’ll also learn:

The hard truth about scaling your culture
Why a loyalty program might actually backfire
A practical way to stay connected to daily operations
A great tip that can help your brand stay authentic

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.400\nHello, friends, and welcome to another episode\n\n2\n00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:04.760\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.760 --> 00:00:06.760\nToday we have David LaFeat on the show.\n\n4\n00:00:06.760 --> 00:00:10.440\nHe's the CEO of the popular Western retailer, Tacobas,\n\n5\n00:00:10.440 --> 00:00:13.640\nwhich has gained tons of traction over the last several years.\n\n6\n00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:15.280\nYou'll see in this conversation that David\n\n7\n00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.400\nhas a people-first mentality that doesn't only apply\n\n8\n00:00:18.400 --> 00:00:20.880\nto things like customer service, but it also\n\n9\n00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:23.960\nhas changed the way he's built his entire business.\n\n10\n00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.800\nThat people-first mentality might just\n\n11\n00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:29.200\nbe the competitive advantage that you've been looking for.\n\n12\n00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:32.000\nEnjoy this conversation between David and David,\n\n13\n00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.880\nand I will see you at the Deep Brief.\n\n14\n00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:41.960\nDavid, it's great to have you on the show.\n\n15\n00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:42.280\nGreat.\n\n16\n00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:43.520\nThank you for having me, David.\n\n17\n00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.840\nHonored to be here, and I love your T-shirt.\n\n18\n00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:48.000\nWell, let me tell you something.\n\n19\n00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.320\nThis is unpaid advertising for you.\n\n20\n00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.920\nWe do not accept any advertising on How Leaders Lead,\n\n21\n00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.400\nbut before we had this podcast, we\n\n22\n00:00:58.400 --> 00:01:00.680\nhave the Palm Beach Garden small near our house.\n\n23\n00:01:00.680 --> 00:01:03.040\nSo you've got a store that's great.\n\n24\n00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:04.360\nYou've got great people in there.\n\n25\n00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:06.000\nThe concept is fantastic.\n\n26\n00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.720\nI love seeing retail when it's brought to life the way\n\n27\n00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:09.920\nI-- how you do it.\n\n28\n00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:13.200\nSo I had to go in there, get the garb.\n\n29\n00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.600\nI knew you'd move beyond cowboy boots, which you have.\n\n30\n00:01:16.600 --> 00:01:19.000\nAnd I got the hat, and I got the T-shirt.\n\n31\n00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.280\nAnd I got out of there without spending too much money,\n\n32\n00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:23.520\nso it was kind of nice.\n\n33\n00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:24.040\nAbsolutely.\n\n34\n00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.680\nIt's a way to get people into the brand, at least.\n\n35\n00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.600\nAnd I noticed when I was there that you have boots\n\n36\n00:01:30.600 --> 00:01:32.280\nmade from everything--\n\n37\n00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:37.560\ncowhide, crocodile, lizard, goat, ostrich, rattlesnake.\n\n38\n00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:41.000\nWhat's your favorite pair, and why?\n\n39\n00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:44.560\nI rotate quite a bit, but my favorite pair right now\n\n40\n00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:49.000\nis a pair of bison that's regenerative bison, incredibly\n\n41\n00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:50.320\nsoft and yet durable.\n\n42\n00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:52.240\nSo that's one of my favorite pairs right now.\n\n43\n00:01:52.240 --> 00:01:55.120\nBut I kind of rotate quite a bit.\n\n44\n00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:57.800\nI've gone from zero pairs to about 62 now,\n\n45\n00:01:57.800 --> 00:02:00.000\nso I've got a few to choose from.\n\n46\n00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.400\nI didn't really know about the COVID,\n\n47\n00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.440\nbut when I had my cowboy boots, I got--\n\n48\n00:02:05.440 --> 00:02:09.640\nI think their Lucasie is what I had.\n\n49\n00:02:09.640 --> 00:02:11.280\nLucasie's pretty upscale brand.\n\n50\n00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:13.200\nI had to admit, I was kind of blown away by how much they\n\n51\n00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:15.080\nwanted for a pair of boots.\n\n52\n00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:21.400\nBut how do your boots compare, and what makes your boots unique?\n\n53\n00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:24.840\nWhat we pride ourselves on is craftsmanship, quality.\n\n54\n00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.440\nAnd I think some of the secret sauces out of the box comfort.\n\n55\n00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:31.280\nA lot of times, if you go put on a pair of cowboy boots,\n\n56\n00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:33.600\nit's going to take you a month to wear them in.\n\n57\n00:02:33.600 --> 00:02:35.920\nI think if you go in a set and fit environment\n\n58\n00:02:35.920 --> 00:02:39.360\nand try our boots on, you'll be amazed at how comfortable they\n\n59\n00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:40.080\nare.\n\n60\n00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:42.600\nI've taken my daughters to a store\n\n61\n00:02:42.600 --> 00:02:46.320\nbefore a UT football game, and we tailgated all day.\n\n62\n00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:50.480\nAnd on our feet all night at the game, no one had a blister.\n\n63\n00:02:50.480 --> 00:02:54.400\nSo that's the real telltale there.\n\n64\n00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:58.080\nBut what's really great for me to be able to have\n\n65\n00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:02.560\nthis conversation with you is, I love country music.\n\n66\n00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.320\nI like going out west.\n\n67\n00:03:04.320 --> 00:03:06.880\nI like a good old pair of cowboy boots.\n\n68\n00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:10.560\nAnd I can't wait to really get to what you're really building.\n\n69\n00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:15.440\nBut could you give us a snapshot of the Tokova's brand\n\n70\n00:03:15.440 --> 00:03:20.800\nas it exists today, and where you see the company going?\n\n71\n00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:24.000\nSo at Tokova's, we're authentically Western brand\n\n72\n00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:27.720\nselling cowboy boots and apparel and accessories.\n\n73\n00:03:27.720 --> 00:03:32.080\nWe started back in 2015, kind of known as the Warby Parker\n\n74\n00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.080\nof Cowboy Boots.\n\n75\n00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.080\nAnd since that time, which was known for kind of taking out\n\n76\n00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:40.400\nthe middleman, since that time, we've really tried to position\n\n77\n00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.000\nthe brand as a premium brand and steeped in Western authenticity.\n\n78\n00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:47.080\nWe have a pretty simple strategy statement.\n\n79\n00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:49.640\nI talked about kind of one pillar of this craftsmanship\n\n80\n00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:52.960\nand quality in footwear.\n\n81\n00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.960\nThe other piece is this concept of radical hospitality,\n\n82\n00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:59.480\nwhere we want to be very approachable.\n\n83\n00:03:59.480 --> 00:04:02.720\nIf you have not worn a pair of cowboy boots before,\n\n84\n00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:06.160\nand you walk into a store and you see a wall of boots,\n\n85\n00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:08.680\nit can be fairly overwhelming.\n\n86\n00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.240\nSo we spend a lot of time training our retail associates\n\n87\n00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.840\non not a hard sell, but just educating people\n\n88\n00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.320\nabout different products and what their use case may be\n\n89\n00:04:19.320 --> 00:04:21.480\nand getting to know them a little bit.\n\n90\n00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.760\nSo we're wanting to kind of honor the heritage\n\n91\n00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:30.120\nof the cowboy boot and kind of grow the roots, if you will,\n\n92\n00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.360\nbut then also kind of sharing this incredible story\n\n93\n00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:35.920\nwith people that are non-traditionally Western\n\n94\n00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.040\nthat maybe buying their pair of boots for the first time.\n\n95\n00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.760\nAnd so we're trying to kind of thread that needle.\n\n96\n00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:44.160\nOne of the filters I like to use is to make sure\n\n97\n00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:48.960\nthat the people that are truly, that this is their lifestyle,\n\n98\n00:04:48.960 --> 00:04:50.560\nand if I look through their lens,\n\n99\n00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:52.840\nthey would be proud of the work that we're doing,\n\n100\n00:04:52.840 --> 00:04:55.440\nboth in the way in which we're bringing it forward\n\n101\n00:04:55.440 --> 00:04:57.000\nwith the products we're making,\n\n102\n00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:01.000\nbut not some drugstore cowboy kind of just trying\n\n103\n00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:05.040\nto take advantage of a moment in time.\n\n104\n00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.040\nSo we're really big on kind of honoring the past\n\n105\n00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:09.800\nand trying crafting its future.\n\n106\n00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.960\nAnd so we're doing a combination of building those roots\n\n107\n00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:16.120\nand at the same time, opening stores in places\n\n108\n00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:20.240\nlike Soho and New York and Philadelphia and Detroit\n\n109\n00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:23.520\nto more non-traditional Western markets.\n\n110\n00:05:23.520 --> 00:05:26.760\n- So you mentioned radical hospitality.\n\n111\n00:05:26.760 --> 00:05:28.520\nHow'd you come up with that notion?\n\n112\n00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:31.160\nWhat really drove that?\n\n113\n00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:33.120\nTell us a story behind that.\n\n114\n00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.840\n- Well, it's really, I think our view is that in addition\n\n115\n00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:39.760\nto kind of these days, people spending harder\n\n116\n00:05:39.760 --> 00:05:43.200\nand money on a product that's not inexpensive.\n\n117\n00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:45.160\nWe want the value proposition, that product,\n\n118\n00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.480\nto be incredibly high.\n\n119\n00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.120\nAt the same time, I want them walking away from our store\n\n120\n00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:55.560\nwith an experience with a story.\n\n121\n00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:59.920\nSo we do things like, we have a bar in every store\n\n122\n00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:02.600\nother than one, so 56 stores.\n\n123\n00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:04.440\nWe've got a bar in there serving alcoholic,\n\n124\n00:06:04.440 --> 00:06:06.280\nnon-alcoholic beverages.\n\n125\n00:06:06.280 --> 00:06:09.200\nWe've done a lot of things like boot shines,\n\n126\n00:06:09.200 --> 00:06:13.320\nwhich we'll offer on the house.\n\n127\n00:06:13.320 --> 00:06:16.840\nWe do a lot of personalization and branding.\n\n128\n00:06:16.840 --> 00:06:19.200\nSo if people want to put their wedding dates on there,\n\n129\n00:06:19.200 --> 00:06:21.120\ntheir children's date, birth dates,\n\n130\n00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.280\nor their college football logo,\n\n131\n00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:26.440\nwe do all of that complimentary as well.\n\n132\n00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:29.400\nSo we try and offer just a lot of different\n\n133\n00:06:29.400 --> 00:06:32.160\nhospitable experiences and making sure,\n\n134\n00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:34.000\nand then again, that approachable part of it\n\n135\n00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.880\nso that they can learn and get educated\n\n136\n00:06:35.880 --> 00:06:37.680\non the product as well.\n\n137\n00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.200\nAnd we kind of use this theme not only,\n\n138\n00:06:40.200 --> 00:06:45.160\nand to the point where last year and in 2024,\n\n139\n00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:49.440\n2024 by 25% of our transactions in store\n\n140\n00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:51.400\nhad some form of personalization.\n\n141\n00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:57.360\nWe did over 180,000 personalizations last year in 2025.\n\n142\n00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:02.080\nAnd when you think about people that are willing\n\n143\n00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:04.160\nto kind of wait around a little bit,\n\n144\n00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:08.040\nit may take 15 minutes to get your branding done,\n\n145\n00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:09.920\nbut it's a little more dwell time in the store.\n\n146\n00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.200\nWe get to know them better, offer them again,\n\n147\n00:07:12.200 --> 00:07:14.080\nalcoholic, non-alcoholic beverage.\n\n148\n00:07:14.080 --> 00:07:17.360\nSo the dwell time, we get to know our consumers\n\n149\n00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.280\na little bit better, and I think it really helps\n\n150\n00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:22.800\nto have an emotional connection with them.\n\n151\n00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.560\nAnd at the end of the day, it's the long-term value\n\n152\n00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.640\nthat we want, and we want people coming back to visit us\n\n153\n00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:31.320\nand whether they're buying or not,\n\n154\n00:07:31.320 --> 00:07:33.720\ncome have a beverage with us and chat.\n\n155\n00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:36.800\nSo that's a big part of what we're doing.\n\n156\n00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:40.560\nA radical hospitality is now kind of spilled over\n\n157\n00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:42.600\ninto really everything we do.\n\n158\n00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:47.640\nI'm kind of a big believer in this principle-based management,\n\n159\n00:07:47.640 --> 00:07:51.760\ncoke industries that started a lot of that on,\n\n160\n00:07:51.760 --> 00:07:54.040\nwe wanna be the brand that people wanna work with,\n\n161\n00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:55.960\nwhether you're a factory partner,\n\n162\n00:07:55.960 --> 00:07:59.600\nwhether you're our wholesale partner or a consumer.\n\n163\n00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.640\nIf you had to choose one brand that you could only work with,\n\n164\n00:08:02.640 --> 00:08:04.360\nI would like them to say it's Tacovas\n\n165\n00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.800\nbecause of that radical hospitality.\n\n166\n00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.320\nAnd it doesn't mean we're giving everything away.\n\n167\n00:08:10.320 --> 00:08:12.760\nIt just means we're straight shooters,\n\n168\n00:08:12.760 --> 00:08:15.640\nwe're transparent about what we're doing.\n\n169\n00:08:15.640 --> 00:08:19.400\nFor a factory partner, I want a 10-year relationship.\n\n170\n00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:20.480\nIt has to be when, when.\n\n171\n00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.440\nIf I'm grabbing margin one year,\n\n172\n00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:24.360\nthey're gonna have to grab it another year.\n\n173\n00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.240\nWe have to find ways that our relationship\n\n174\n00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.080\nis sustainable over a long period of time,\n\n175\n00:08:30.080 --> 00:08:31.920\n'cause we're not gonna own factories,\n\n176\n00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.160\nbut we certainly can be strategic partners\n\n177\n00:08:34.160 --> 00:08:36.520\nwith them as well.\n\n178\n00:08:36.520 --> 00:08:39.400\nSo it's a concept that and/or our employees,\n\n179\n00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:43.280\nwe wanna make sure if we're not being radically hospitable\n\n180\n00:08:43.280 --> 00:08:44.920\nto our employee base,\n\n181\n00:08:44.920 --> 00:08:46.520\nhow can we expect that they in turn\n\n182\n00:08:46.520 --> 00:08:48.560\ndo the same for our consumers?\n\n183\n00:08:48.560 --> 00:08:53.320\nAnd I was thinking about just the whole cowboy boot industry.\n\n184\n00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:57.440\nWhat would surprise us about who's actually buying boots today?\n\n185\n00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:02.560\nYou'd be surprised at how many people\n\n186\n00:09:02.560 --> 00:09:04.880\nthat have bought their first pair\n\n187\n00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:07.800\nthat repeat fairly often.\n\n188\n00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:12.600\nI mean, we have people in a Facebook to COVA's enthusiast group,\n\n189\n00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:14.640\nsome of whom have 50 pairs of boots,\n\n190\n00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:17.040\nsome are 35, some are 40.\n\n191\n00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:20.240\nAnd it's one reason why I've kind of resisted\n\n192\n00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:23.200\nthis concept of a loyalty program.\n\n193\n00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.000\nI think it cuts against this concept\n\n194\n00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:26.840\nof radical hospitality.\n\n195\n00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:29.480\nI don't really want our teams focused\n\n196\n00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:32.360\non who they think is gonna be the long-term\n\n197\n00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:34.280\nvalue consumer.\n\n198\n00:09:34.280 --> 00:09:35.280\nWe don't know.\n\n199\n00:09:35.280 --> 00:09:37.600\nIt may be that somebody just put their first pair on\n\n200\n00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.960\nand all of a sudden they've got 10 pairs.\n\n201\n00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.680\nI'd rather have a program where we treat\n\n202\n00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:45.880\nour good customers very well.\n\n203\n00:09:45.880 --> 00:09:48.480\nAnd we know if they've bought multiple pairs\n\n204\n00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:51.400\nand maybe they have early access to things, et cetera.\n\n205\n00:09:51.400 --> 00:09:53.680\nBut I don't really like the concept of,\n\n206\n00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:55.200\nhey, you know, come buy another pair\n\n207\n00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:57.200\nand we'll give you a few points here and there.\n\n208\n00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.560\nI'd rather open that aperture up\n\n209\n00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:01.360\nand let's see who's coming through that door\n\n210\n00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.960\nand all of a sudden is buying other things as well.\n\n211\n00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:10.880\nYou know, we're apparel, we accessories last year,\n\n212\n00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:12.040\nwe couldn't keep in stock.\n\n213\n00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:17.000\nSo I think people, if we're known for our craftsmanship\n\n214\n00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.240\nand an aspirational brand,\n\n215\n00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:21.240\nwe're finding people getting into the brand\n\n216\n00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.880\nthrough a bill fold or, you know, a credit card holder,\n\n217\n00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:26.480\nthose types of things as well.\n\n218\n00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.360\n- Yeah, I noticed that in a store.\n\n219\n00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.520\nAnd by the way, your people were just as you had described,\n\n220\n00:10:31.520 --> 00:10:34.400\nyou know, you saw the great conversations\n\n221\n00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:35.880\nthey were having with customers.\n\n222\n00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:37.800\nThey were very focused on, you know,\n\n223\n00:10:37.800 --> 00:10:41.160\nbuilding a relationship, which is great to see.\n\n224\n00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:44.200\nSo when I went in, I already had my pair of boots.\n\n225\n00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:45.600\nSo I didn't buy any boots this time.\n\n226\n00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:47.120\nI'll have to go back sometime.\n\n227\n00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:50.680\nBut, you know, I did get this hat and I got this t-shirt.\n\n228\n00:10:50.680 --> 00:10:54.120\nHow do you decide what category you're gonna go into?\n\n229\n00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.520\nI mean, how do you decide how to add\n\n230\n00:10:56.520 --> 00:10:58.840\na specific item?\n\n231\n00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.400\n- I think we wanna make sure that we stick to our core\n\n232\n00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:03.240\nfor a while.\n\n233\n00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.920\nNow, if I look out 10 years,\n\n234\n00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:06.760\nI could see a lot of different things\n\n235\n00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:09.160\nthat would be probably inappropriate to start now\n\n236\n00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:12.640\nuntil you've kind of connected those dots\n\n237\n00:11:12.640 --> 00:11:14.280\nand built a meaningful bridge\n\n238\n00:11:14.280 --> 00:11:16.440\nto where we are now versus where we can get.\n\n239\n00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.240\nBut I'll give you an example.\n\n240\n00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:22.040\nWe have a slip on loan for called the Monterey.\n\n241\n00:11:23.760 --> 00:11:27.200\nYou wouldn't, it's got our DNA in the sense of\n\n242\n00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.920\nhigh quality craftsmanship and materials.\n\n243\n00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:33.760\nYou wouldn't think that's a Western looking shoe necessarily.\n\n244\n00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:36.800\nThat shoe alone does over six million.\n\n245\n00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:41.040\nSo, you know, we can kind of see now people are,\n\n246\n00:11:41.040 --> 00:11:43.000\nas I mentioned about the accessories as well,\n\n247\n00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.280\nthey appreciate the craftsmanship and high quality\n\n248\n00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:48.000\nof the products that we're coming up with.\n\n249\n00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.400\nAnd so we'll pick our shots on where we think,\n\n250\n00:11:51.400 --> 00:11:55.560\nwe call that Western adjacent and try and make sure\n\n251\n00:11:55.560 --> 00:11:56.920\nit's got some DNA.\n\n252\n00:11:56.920 --> 00:12:01.920\nWe think things are natural like, you know, jeans, denim.\n\n253\n00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:05.200\nWe believe we're making jeans that can accommodate\n\n254\n00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.840\na boot cut so you don't have that X-ray kind of where\n\n255\n00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.800\nyou're the shaft of the boots poking through your jeans.\n\n256\n00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:12.800\nBut at the same time, if you're wearing loafers\n\n257\n00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:15.920\nor sneakers with those jeans, you're not gonna look down\n\n258\n00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:19.840\nand it looks like you're wearing a bell bottom pair of pants.\n\n259\n00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.480\nSo there are natural things that we can go into.\n\n260\n00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.720\nYou know, pearl snaps, performance shirts,\n\n261\n00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.960\nyou know, fishing type shirts,\n\n262\n00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:32.200\nbut that have a little bit of a Western DNA to them as well.\n\n263\n00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:33.320\nBut we're careful about it.\n\n264\n00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:34.160\nI wanna be careful.\n\n265\n00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:36.160\nWe don't move away from our core too quickly\n\n266\n00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:37.800\n'cause I think there's a lot,\n\n267\n00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:40.080\nI think people tend to move away too quickly thinking\n\n268\n00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.160\nthey have to kind of jump an S curve,\n\n269\n00:12:42.160 --> 00:12:44.120\nsometimes prematurely.\n\n270\n00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:45.760\n- Has there been a time when you've done that?\n\n271\n00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:48.640\nI mean, where you wish you wouldn't have lost an item.\n\n272\n00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:51.520\n- We've been pretty careful about it here at Tacovas.\n\n273\n00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:53.280\nI mean, a more mature business\n\n274\n00:12:53.280 --> 00:12:55.760\nwhen I was at my former firm, Deckers.\n\n275\n00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:58.680\nYeah, I mean, I think there were times when,\n\n276\n00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:01.280\nyou know, you put a growth rate on a brand\n\n277\n00:13:01.280 --> 00:13:04.200\nand we bought, when I was at Deckers,\n\n278\n00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:09.200\nwe bought the Sunuk brand and it was a very hot surf type brand.\n\n279\n00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.720\nYou know, immediately it's like,\n\n280\n00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:17.320\nokay, we should build this into a large lifestyle brand.\n\n281\n00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:19.880\nAnd I think moved too quickly.\n\n282\n00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:21.800\nAnd what you do is you alienate your core.\n\n283\n00:13:21.800 --> 00:13:25.880\nThe people who kind of brought you there are out.\n\n284\n00:13:25.880 --> 00:13:28.520\nAnd then you're trying to now throw everything against the wall\n\n285\n00:13:28.520 --> 00:13:31.880\nto bring in new consumers and you've kind of lost your way.\n\n286\n00:13:31.880 --> 00:13:33.520\nAnd so I've seen it quite a bit.\n\n287\n00:13:33.520 --> 00:13:34.440\nDoes the answer, yes.\n\n288\n00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:36.240\nAnd it happens to more mature brands\n\n289\n00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.960\nwhen you're trying to find new green shoots.\n\n290\n00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.080\n- You know, one of the biggest television hits\n\n291\n00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.480\nin recent years has to be Yellowstone.\n\n292\n00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.040\nI mean, I loved watching that.\n\n293\n00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:50.160\nAnd was there any Yellowstone effect of your business?\n\n294\n00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:55.160\nI mean, that was such a, almost like a cultural,\n\n295\n00:13:55.160 --> 00:13:56.400\nyou know, movement, you know,\n\n296\n00:13:56.400 --> 00:13:58.400\nand everybody was watching and talking about it.\n\n297\n00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:01.640\nAnd it's all out West and people are wearing boots.\n\n298\n00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:03.480\nI mean, did that impact your business at all?\n\n299\n00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:05.760\n- Of course, absolutely.\n\n300\n00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:07.600\nI mean, it was a huge effect.\n\n301\n00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.320\nI mean, I think each episode had more than 13 million viewers\n\n302\n00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.760\nand it had an enormous effect, you know,\n\n303\n00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:17.480\nand Taylor Sharon and storytelling\n\n304\n00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:21.600\nand what he's been able to do has been huge.\n\n305\n00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.400\nI do think it's, I think it's very different\n\n306\n00:14:25.400 --> 00:14:27.960\nthan like urban cowboy, the 1980s, you know,\n\n307\n00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:29.640\nthat was a film that, you know,\n\n308\n00:14:29.640 --> 00:14:33.120\nwhere a lot of trend happened and then kind of dissipated.\n\n309\n00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:38.200\nI think Western has become more of mainstream\n\n310\n00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.360\nand I think more accepted.\n\n311\n00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.280\nAnd it's like, it's one of the most iconic silhouettes\n\n312\n00:14:44.280 --> 00:14:47.360\nin U.S. footwear.\n\n313\n00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:51.240\nSo I think again, wanting to make sure,\n\n314\n00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.200\nyou know, a lot of the other thing about our product\n\n315\n00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:54.800\nis timeless style.\n\n316\n00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:56.520\nYou know, we wanna make products\n\n317\n00:14:56.520 --> 00:15:00.040\nthat aren't gonna be coming in and out of fashion every year.\n\n318\n00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:02.360\nNow, we'll push the envelope on certain colors\n\n319\n00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:05.360\nand things like that just to have some interesting visual\n\n320\n00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.280\nmerchandising in our stores.\n\n321\n00:15:07.280 --> 00:15:10.560\nBut for the most part, when you buy a pair of boots,\n\n322\n00:15:10.560 --> 00:15:13.080\nyou're gonna keep these for 15, 20 years,\n\n323\n00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:14.920\n30 years, handing them down to your kids\n\n324\n00:15:14.920 --> 00:15:16.760\nand they won't be out of style\n\n325\n00:15:16.760 --> 00:15:20.280\nbecause I think we are focused on sort of that timeless style.\n\n326\n00:15:20.280 --> 00:15:24.000\n- You know, I read that I think there's over 200 steps\n\n327\n00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:27.840\nin making your boots, which that requires\n\n328\n00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.120\ntremendous craftsmanship, you know,\n\n329\n00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.480\nas you get bigger and bigger, how do you scale that?\n\n330\n00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.800\nHow do you scale the ability\n\n331\n00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:37.560\nto make these high-quality boots that require\n\n332\n00:15:37.560 --> 00:15:40.280\nsuch an intricate process?\n\n333\n00:15:40.280 --> 00:15:42.720\n- Well, it's where you have to pick and choose\n\n334\n00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.360\ncapital allocation and what you're gonna focus on\n\n335\n00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.360\nand what we've kind of agreed upon as a team is,\n\n336\n00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.320\nwe're gonna be relentless about that,\n\n337\n00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:56.400\nwhich means, you know, just because you hear all the time\n\n338\n00:15:56.400 --> 00:15:58.120\nabout, oh, those products are made\n\n339\n00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.560\nin the same factory as some other product.\n\n340\n00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:03.080\nIt's not about the factory, it's about the production lines\n\n341\n00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.480\nthat you manage and, you know, we have a large internal team\n\n342\n00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.320\nin Leon Mexico of over 50 people that are responsible\n\n343\n00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.200\nfor product development, quality control\n\n344\n00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:17.480\nand then continuous improvement coaching\n\n345\n00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.320\nof our factory partners and the people\n\n346\n00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.120\nthat who are on the line.\n\n347\n00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.360\nSo it's a commitment that, you know,\n\n348\n00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.800\nif you turn your head for the briefest time,\n\n349\n00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:30.120\nyou will start, all it takes is a little bit at a time\n\n350\n00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.240\nbefore you know it, you're pointing the wrong direction.\n\n351\n00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.280\nSo you can't ever let your eye off of it,\n\n352\n00:16:36.280 --> 00:16:39.280\nbut you have to be willing to, you know,\n\n353\n00:16:39.280 --> 00:16:41.480\nto build the team and train the people\n\n354\n00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.240\nand have just a relentless attention to detail on it.\n\n355\n00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.920\n- As a leader, how do you, David,\n\n356\n00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:47.960\nhow do you build that relationship\n\n357\n00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.160\nwith the factory heads and the people?\n\n358\n00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:54.120\nYou know, what's your process do you use?\n\n359\n00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.440\n- Well, I'll give you actually a story\n\n360\n00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.920\nthat when I first started in this business\n\n361\n00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:03.760\nat Deckers as their chief operating officer,\n\n362\n00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:06.680\nwhen I got there, the mandate was you have to go find\n\n363\n00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:10.280\n$150 million of cost savings in your supply chain.\n\n364\n00:17:10.280 --> 00:17:14.080\nAnd so, you know, I was a corporate attorney.\n\n365\n00:17:14.080 --> 00:17:16.720\nI didn't know exactly what I was gonna go after.\n\n366\n00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.120\nSo I went to the team and say, okay, what ideas do you have?\n\n367\n00:17:20.120 --> 00:17:21.280\nYou know, a bunch of hands go up.\n\n368\n00:17:21.280 --> 00:17:23.360\nAnd one of them was, well,\n\n369\n00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:26.760\nwe're the largest purchaser of sheepskin in the world.\n\n370\n00:17:26.760 --> 00:17:30.320\nAnd yet the factories are requesting a 20% buffer\n\n371\n00:17:30.320 --> 00:17:32.000\nfor cutting yields.\n\n372\n00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.160\nBut what's happening is they can cut much more efficiently\n\n373\n00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.000\nthan that.\n\n374\n00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:39.720\nSo they're just short purchasing the material\n\n375\n00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:41.920\nand they're profiting from that.\n\n376\n00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:44.880\nBecause in the FOB that were being quoted,\n\n377\n00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.200\nwe're assuming they're gonna go by a certain\n\n378\n00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:48.880\nmillion square feet of sheepskin.\n\n379\n00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.000\nAnd when in fact, they're only buying whatever,\n\n380\n00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.360\n80% of that, let's say.\n\n381\n00:17:53.360 --> 00:17:56.840\nOkay, that's a great idea, why did that stall?\n\n382\n00:17:56.840 --> 00:17:59.360\nWell, the factories don't like it.\n\n383\n00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:01.640\nI'm like, okay, well, how did we present this\n\n384\n00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:03.120\nto the factories?\n\n385\n00:18:03.120 --> 00:18:06.480\nSo long story short, I went over to Asia\n\n386\n00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.520\nand met with all the key partners,\n\n387\n00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:11.280\nbut also realized that we had splintered\n\n388\n00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:14.600\nthe production to like 30 different groups.\n\n389\n00:18:14.600 --> 00:18:17.040\nWell, you're not gonna mean anything to anybody\n\n390\n00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:19.280\nwhen you're spreading out your product that much.\n\n391\n00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:21.760\nAnd so my thought was, look,\n\n392\n00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:24.600\nlet's pick five key partners.\n\n393\n00:18:24.600 --> 00:18:26.520\nAnd we're gonna go to them and say, look,\n\n394\n00:18:26.520 --> 00:18:30.600\nyou're giving a surprise in quoting it online items\n\n395\n00:18:30.600 --> 00:18:32.000\non what the cost of material is,\n\n396\n00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.320\nwhat your labor is, what your overhead is.\n\n397\n00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:37.480\nBut if you're good at cutting, then great,\n\n398\n00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:39.000\nI'm gonna send you more units.\n\n399\n00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.440\nAnd you're gonna balloon up from whatever 200,000 pair\n\n400\n00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.360\nto a million pair.\n\n401\n00:18:44.360 --> 00:18:46.480\nAnd we'll keep going and give you more and more\n\n402\n00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.800\nif you're that good at cutting and production.\n\n403\n00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:51.640\nSo we made it a win-win.\n\n404\n00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.960\nAnd I think that, again, that transparency\n\n405\n00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:58.640\nof understanding where we could get better too,\n\n406\n00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:00.400\nour forecasting needed to improve.\n\n407\n00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:01.600\nWe could be better at planning.\n\n408\n00:19:01.600 --> 00:19:03.800\nWe could be better at a lot of things.\n\n409\n00:19:03.800 --> 00:19:06.240\nWe could stop sampling so much product,\n\n410\n00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.400\nwhich all costs money.\n\n411\n00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.200\nSo I think it's a matter of sitting down\n\n412\n00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.640\nand what are we doing that's not very good\n\n413\n00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:15.840\nthat we should improve and in turn,\n\n414\n00:19:15.840 --> 00:19:18.080\nwhat do I need from my factory partner?\n\n415\n00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:20.360\nAnd by the way, we're willing to commit and invest with you\n\n416\n00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:21.920\nfor the next 10 years,\n\n417\n00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:24.840\nbut let's keep this continuous improvement sort of mindset.\n\n418\n00:19:24.840 --> 00:19:27.600\nAnd I think over time, they appreciated\n\n419\n00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:29.960\nthat sort of a dialogue.\n\n420\n00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.400\nAnd that's how you build these relationships.\n\n421\n00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.480\nAnd as I said, I wanna be the brand\n\n422\n00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:37.920\nthat they want to work with.\n\n423\n00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.040\nWhen things like COVID happen,\n\n424\n00:19:40.040 --> 00:19:43.120\nif I have got a strong relationship\n\n425\n00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:44.280\nand some of it's showing up,\n\n426\n00:19:44.280 --> 00:19:47.160\nI used to travel to Asia once a quarter\n\n427\n00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.760\nand sometimes people are shocked.\n\n428\n00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:51.120\nLike we haven't seen a chief operating officer here\n\n429\n00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:55.520\nin 10 years, but showing the importance of it\n\n430\n00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:59.160\nand just building that relationship\n\n431\n00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.840\nand what can I do for them?\n\n432\n00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:02.760\nAnd here's what I need from you.\n\n433\n00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:05.480\n- You joined to COVID's in 2022\n\n434\n00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.960\nand that was seven years after the company was founded.\n\n435\n00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:10.760\nWhen you walked in the door,\n\n436\n00:20:10.760 --> 00:20:13.440\nwhat was the first thing you knew you had to protect?\n\n437\n00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.520\n- Well, the brand, I think the one thing\n\n438\n00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:21.080\nthat Paul Hedrick, the founder did that was spot on\n\n439\n00:20:21.080 --> 00:20:25.000\nwas the look and feel of the brand.\n\n440\n00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.200\nAnd so I had to protect that.\n\n441\n00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.280\nLike even the store design, for example,\n\n442\n00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:33.880\nit wasn't like we could improve that design\n\n443\n00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.560\nmaybe from an operational standpoint and a flow,\n\n444\n00:20:36.560 --> 00:20:39.480\nhow the associates could more effectively serve\n\n445\n00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:40.880\nthe consumer.\n\n446\n00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.120\nBut as far as the aesthetic goes, it was spot on.\n\n447\n00:20:44.120 --> 00:20:48.280\nSo I had the luxury of not having to go change any of that.\n\n448\n00:20:48.280 --> 00:20:52.760\nAnd if I was Paul, I would have focused on the demand curve\n\n449\n00:20:52.760 --> 00:20:56.440\nfirst and making sure that brand was right.\n\n450\n00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.120\nSo a lot of the work that I had to do initially\n\n451\n00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:02.440\nwas more on the supply side of things\n\n452\n00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.720\n'cause we were running off the rails a little bit\n\n453\n00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.400\nfrom distribution center, being able to service\n\n454\n00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:12.640\nand fulfill within service levels that were necessary.\n\n455\n00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.600\nThe amount of units we were now producing\n\n456\n00:21:17.600 --> 00:21:19.760\nneeded to start moving from one factory\n\n457\n00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:21.360\nto now multiple factories.\n\n458\n00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:24.920\nBut there wasn't a lot of expertise in supply chain\n\n459\n00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.720\nto be able to, it was like almost each factory\n\n460\n00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.400\nwas having to value and reverse engineer the product\n\n461\n00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.160\nbecause there were no tech packs\n\n462\n00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.560\nlike listing out what specific components\n\n463\n00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:37.400\nand what the leather specifications were.\n\n464\n00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.320\nSo we had to build a lot of that up.\n\n465\n00:21:40.320 --> 00:21:44.000\nBut that we could kind of handle in fairly short order\n\n466\n00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.640\nand get our arms around that pretty quickly.\n\n467\n00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.400\nI think the biggest thing that I saw when I arrived\n\n468\n00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.400\nwas more of a capital allocation issue on labor.\n\n469\n00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:58.480\nWe had certain groups that were just way too big\n\n470\n00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:00.080\nand we didn't need that yet.\n\n471\n00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:04.560\nLike in functions like administrative HR and finance.\n\n472\n00:22:04.560 --> 00:22:07.360\nAnd we had other functions that were just desperate\n\n473\n00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:11.320\nfor people, product development, the product team,\n\n474\n00:22:11.320 --> 00:22:13.320\nmaterials people.\n\n475\n00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:16.600\nSo actually within the first 60 days,\n\n476\n00:22:16.600 --> 00:22:19.600\nI did a little bit of a reduction in force\n\n477\n00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:22.960\nof about 15% of the workforce,\n\n478\n00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:25.000\nmainly so I could free up some dollars\n\n479\n00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.720\nto go invest in these other areas\n\n480\n00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.320\nthat were desperately under person.\n\n481\n00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:33.800\nBut I had support from the founder from day one.\n\n482\n00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:37.800\nHe would want to know the why behind what I was thinking\n\n483\n00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:39.680\nand why I was moving in a certain direction.\n\n484\n00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.320\nBut I've never felt that I didn't have his support\n\n485\n00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:44.160\non things I needed to get done.\n\n486\n00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.000\n- That's great.\n\n487\n00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.880\nAnd you mentioned product development.\n\n488\n00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.360\nWhere do you get your creative inspiration from?\n\n489\n00:22:49.360 --> 00:22:53.840\nI mean, do you immerse yourself out west, go to ranches,\n\n490\n00:22:53.840 --> 00:22:56.520\nget around music, the music culture,\n\n491\n00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:59.440\nor is it somewhere that's really kind of unexpected?\n\n492\n00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.680\n- I think it's all of the above.\n\n493\n00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.920\nAnd when you say me, I don't have any.\n\n494\n00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.160\nSo I have to surround myself with the people\n\n495\n00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.240\nwho do have all that creative instincts, et cetera.\n\n496\n00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.240\nSo my biggest asset is just surrounding myself\n\n497\n00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:19.080\nwith the best people that do have that sort of creativity\n\n498\n00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:24.000\nand then how do you make sure that all that creativity\n\n499\n00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.840\nis sort of integrated in a way that comes to life,\n\n500\n00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:29.080\nthe consumer that's sort of very cohesive\n\n501\n00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:30.800\nand not all over the place.\n\n502\n00:23:30.800 --> 00:23:32.760\nBut country music is a huge,\n\n503\n00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:35.920\nyou mentioned Yellowstone, country music,\n\n504\n00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.400\nwhen you look at what's happening\n\n505\n00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.680\nwhen people like Morgan Wallen and Zach Bryan\n\n506\n00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.720\nselling out football stadiums, two, three nights in a row.\n\n507\n00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.040\nAnd again, non-traditional Western markets\n\n508\n00:23:47.040 --> 00:23:49.000\nlike San Francisco, I went to Levi Stadium\n\n509\n00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.160\nto see Morgan Wallen with my wife and daughter.\n\n510\n00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.880\nAnd you'd never believe there were so many Western folks\n\n511\n00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:59.120\nin San Francisco, and this is two, three nights in a row,\n\n512\n00:23:59.120 --> 00:24:02.720\nsame at Ann Arbor, 80,000 people for Zach Bryan.\n\n513\n00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.760\nSo, and when these folks tour around, you know,\n\n514\n00:24:05.760 --> 00:24:08.000\nif our plant, if they're gonna tour in Charlotte,\n\n515\n00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:09.880\nNorth Carolina and our plan for that day\n\n516\n00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:14.880\ncalled for $12,000 in our retail store, it may do 40,000.\n\n517\n00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.880\nNow we're very good about putting all that data\n\n518\n00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.160\ninto our planning system, so we load up those stores.\n\n519\n00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.480\n- It makes a lot of sense. - So they're ready.\n\n520\n00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.680\n- You're not gonna go to a concert without those boots on,\n\n521\n00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.200\nI could tell you that. - Absolutely.\n\n522\n00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.240\nSo, you know, we're seeing, but we get inspiration\n\n523\n00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.800\nfrom a lot of this, but also, again,\n\n524\n00:24:32.800 --> 00:24:34.560\nstaying true to our product pillars\n\n525\n00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:36.840\nand the hand feel of the leathers.\n\n526\n00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:40.640\nAnd again, even our shirts and denim,\n\n527\n00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.360\nwe want to make sure we're meeting those product pillars\n\n528\n00:24:43.360 --> 00:24:46.200\nand kind of staying in that framework.\n\n529\n00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.600\n- I wanna stay, you know, more on TACOVA's,\n\n530\n00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:50.720\nobviously in your leadership,\n\n531\n00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.600\nbut first I wanna take you back a little bit, David.\n\n532\n00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:55.160\nWhat's the story from your childhood\n\n533\n00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:57.600\nthat shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n534\n00:24:57.600 --> 00:25:01.400\n- Oh boy, I think I would say probably my father.\n\n535\n00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.600\nI think my father was an incredible lawyer,\n\n536\n00:25:04.600 --> 00:25:09.720\nbut humble and humility,\n\n537\n00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:11.680\na guy would never talk about himself.\n\n538\n00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:16.600\nHe rose to become from Shreveport, Louisiana,\n\n539\n00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:17.800\nto be president of a group\n\n540\n00:25:17.800 --> 00:25:20.240\ncalled the American College of Trial Lawyers.\n\n541\n00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.640\nYou're growing up.\n\n542\n00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.040\nI think I had every Supreme Court Justice\n\n543\n00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:26.880\nstay at our house from William Brennan\n\n544\n00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:31.040\nto Louis Powell to Justice Scalia.\n\n545\n00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:35.880\nAnd it didn't matter what political side of the equation.\n\n546\n00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.480\nMy dad ended up kind of befriending all of them,\n\n547\n00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.160\nbut I think seeing a lot of that,\n\n548\n00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.840\nyou know, honestly, as a kid,\n\n549\n00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:46.840\nI was a little bit of a, you know,\n\n550\n00:25:46.840 --> 00:25:49.680\ntoo cool for school type mentality.\n\n551\n00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.320\nAnd I think some of that was probably\n\n552\n00:25:51.320 --> 00:25:54.600\na little bit of a defense mechanism on insecurities.\n\n553\n00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:57.280\nLike if I don't apply myself and I fail,\n\n554\n00:25:57.280 --> 00:25:59.680\nit's 'cause I didn't care type mentality.\n\n555\n00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:03.320\nAnd I think a lot of that changed\n\n556\n00:26:03.320 --> 00:26:07.120\nwhen I messed around a lot, you know,\n\n557\n00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:09.280\nin high school and college.\n\n558\n00:26:09.280 --> 00:26:13.000\nI think when I finally got to law school and frankly,\n\n559\n00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.400\nI got lucky, I was on a waiting list for Tulane\n\n560\n00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:21.120\nand fortunately, one day before the first year\n\n561\n00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:24.800\nI was gonna start, I got off the waiting list in Tulane.\n\n562\n00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:28.920\nAnd that's kind of the first time I really buckled down\n\n563\n00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:30.080\nand applied myself.\n\n564\n00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:34.120\nAnd I showed myself, you know, what I could do, et cetera.\n\n565\n00:26:34.120 --> 00:26:36.200\nAnd then when I got out of law school,\n\n566\n00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:38.160\nI wanted to be a corporate attorney.\n\n567\n00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.400\nAnd this is 1991 and it was a pretty bad recession.\n\n568\n00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:44.480\nLatham and Watkins had just let go\n\n569\n00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.040\nof 90 corporate associates.\n\n570\n00:26:46.040 --> 00:26:47.640\nAnd so it was like, good luck getting a job\n\n571\n00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.640\nin that corporate world.\n\n572\n00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.200\nSo my first three years, I went to a small firm\n\n573\n00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:53.400\nto do litigation.\n\n574\n00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:58.600\nBut I quickly realized that while I did well in law school,\n\n575\n00:26:58.600 --> 00:27:02.000\na lot of these big white shoe firms were gonna be hiring\n\n576\n00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.000\nfrom Ivy League and, you know, top 10, 15 law schools.\n\n577\n00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.040\nSo I kind of developed a little bit of chip\n\n578\n00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:10.720\non my shoulder there.\n\n579\n00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:15.720\nAnd I think I started to kind of get to where my dad was,\n\n580\n00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:21.120\nmeaning he always worked his tail off.\n\n581\n00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:24.440\nAnd I guarantee you he never showed up in court\n\n582\n00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.880\nwhere he was out prepared ever.\n\n583\n00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:31.680\nAnd I think that a lot of that ended up rubbing off on me.\n\n584\n00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:34.560\n- Hello friends, I hope you're loving this conversation.\n\n585\n00:27:34.560 --> 00:27:36.960\nBe sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode.\n\n586\n00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.280\nAs always, David and I are going to debrief\n\n587\n00:27:39.280 --> 00:27:41.160\nsome of the concepts that he talks about\n\n588\n00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:42.400\nwith this week's guests.\n\n589\n00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:46.480\nSo stay tuned to the very end and I will see you soon.\n\n590\n00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.440\n- Now you spent, as I understand it,\n\n591\n00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.240\nabout 25 years as a lawyer.\n\n592\n00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:52.880\nWhat did practicing law teach you\n\n593\n00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.680\nthat most CEOs never learned?\n\n594\n00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:58.320\n- Well, I think first of all,\n\n595\n00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:00.600\nthis radical hospitality concept, you know,\n\n596\n00:28:00.600 --> 00:28:05.240\nwe were to, I was at a mid-sized California firm\n\n597\n00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:09.880\nand we were up against all the big New York firms,\n\n598\n00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.440\nthe Latham's, Gibson Duns, all those types.\n\n599\n00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.200\nSo punching above our weight on the types of deals,\n\n600\n00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.720\nwe were working on.\n\n601\n00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:20.880\nBut boy, if you didn't have the service element there,\n\n602\n00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.960\nand if a client sent an email in or a voicemail,\n\n603\n00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.120\nyou know, if I didn't respond to that in minutes,\n\n604\n00:28:28.120 --> 00:28:30.160\nyou know, they're going to move on and go elsewhere.\n\n605\n00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.280\nSo we, we not only had to compete with incredible lawyers,\n\n606\n00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:37.200\nbut if we didn't compete on service, we were going to lose.\n\n607\n00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.480\nAnd that's something just as an associate.\n\n608\n00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:42.120\nAnd to this day, I'm probably a little bit of a pain\n\n609\n00:28:42.120 --> 00:28:45.080\nin the rear with the team, although I try and back off\n\n610\n00:28:45.080 --> 00:28:48.640\na little bit, but sometimes if I send an email or a slack\n\n611\n00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.600\nor something, I think they know I don't like it\n\n612\n00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:53.120\nto sit for too long.\n\n613\n00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:56.920\nAnd even though I've backed off that a little bit\n\n614\n00:28:56.920 --> 00:28:59.440\nbecause I don't think all that's necessary.\n\n615\n00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:02.800\nWhen it's a consumer though, I do think it's necessary.\n\n616\n00:29:02.800 --> 00:29:06.040\nAnd so I think that that service is critical.\n\n617\n00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:10.600\nI'll never forget, I was fairly new at the law firm\n\n618\n00:29:10.600 --> 00:29:13.080\nand I was working for the managing partner,\n\n619\n00:29:13.080 --> 00:29:14.760\none of the name partners.\n\n620\n00:29:14.760 --> 00:29:16.840\nAnd I was working on one of the biggest deals\n\n621\n00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.240\nthat was going on at the time.\n\n622\n00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:21.480\nIt was a large acquisition that was being funded\n\n623\n00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:26.480\nthrough a public equity offering and a large credit facility.\n\n624\n00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.120\nAnd I think I was probably, I just moved there.\n\n625\n00:29:29.120 --> 00:29:31.560\nSo I was probably a third or fourth year associate.\n\n626\n00:29:31.560 --> 00:29:33.760\nI was probably up for three or four days straight\n\n627\n00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:36.880\nand we were trying to get this deal closed the next day.\n\n628\n00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.880\nAnd the guy whose client it was calls me in and says,\n\n629\n00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:44.880\nhey, I've got a new company coming in tomorrow morning.\n\n630\n00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.840\nI'd like you to meet with me with them.\n\n631\n00:29:47.840 --> 00:29:49.560\nAnd I've got all this stuff to do.\n\n632\n00:29:49.560 --> 00:29:51.240\nAnd I'm like, what is he kidding?\n\n633\n00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:55.240\nAnd so I walk in this meeting and it's three Taiwanese guys,\n\n634\n00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:57.880\nyoung, could hardly speak any English.\n\n635\n00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.920\nThey wanted me to kind of walk through bylaws.\n\n636\n00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:04.520\nAnd I'm looking up at the managing partner going,\n\n637\n00:30:04.520 --> 00:30:06.600\nI gotta get to this thing closed over here.\n\n638\n00:30:06.600 --> 00:30:11.600\nYou know, and but I'll never forget\n\n639\n00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:15.360\nthe fact that he was willing to spend just as much time\n\n640\n00:30:15.360 --> 00:30:18.760\nwith this startup company that was a brand new client\n\n641\n00:30:18.760 --> 00:30:20.720\nas he was with this larger client\n\n642\n00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.320\nthat we were trying to get this deal closed.\n\n643\n00:30:23.320 --> 00:30:26.440\nAnd that's kind of the service aspect of it.\n\n644\n00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:28.240\nAnd sure enough, by the way,\n\n645\n00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:30.160\nthat's little semiconductor company.\n\n646\n00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:34.200\nWe ended up selling three years later for about 400 million.\n\n647\n00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.600\nWhen did you feel David that you maybe stopped being a liar\n\n648\n00:30:38.600 --> 00:30:40.160\nand became a brand builder?\n\n649\n00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.000\nI mean, you're building that brand now.\n\n650\n00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.040\nI mean, that's gotta be the overall goal.\n\n651\n00:30:45.040 --> 00:30:47.480\n- Yeah, I think when I made the decision\n\n652\n00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:49.400\nto leave the law practice,\n\n653\n00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.840\nI had a, you know, the former chairman, CEO of Deckers,\n\n654\n00:30:53.840 --> 00:30:56.520\ngrabbed me at a board meeting and said,\n\n655\n00:30:56.520 --> 00:30:57.840\ncan you have lunch on Monday?\n\n656\n00:30:57.840 --> 00:30:59.800\nAnd I said, Sharon,\n\n657\n00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:03.320\nthey had been looking for a chief operating officer\n\n658\n00:31:03.320 --> 00:31:05.240\nat Deckers for about a year.\n\n659\n00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:07.760\nAnd he said, I think you should take this role.\n\n660\n00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:10.880\nI'm like, well, I don't know anything about operations\n\n661\n00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:11.720\nor footwear.\n\n662\n00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:13.680\nOther than that, it sounds like a perfect fit.\n\n663\n00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.120\nHe's like, no, no, no, don't worry about that.\n\n664\n00:31:15.120 --> 00:31:17.320\nI'll teach you about footwear, but, you know,\n\n665\n00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:19.840\nthe team trust you since you've been our outside counsel\n\n666\n00:31:19.840 --> 00:31:22.640\nfor a while and let's give this a run.\n\n667\n00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.160\nI think it'll be good for you.\n\n668\n00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.440\nI just turned 50 and figured, why not?\n\n669\n00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:30.440\nIf I fail, I'll fail fast and go back to the practice law.\n\n670\n00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.560\nBut, you know, right when I made that change,\n\n671\n00:31:34.560 --> 00:31:38.120\nat the time I was mentoring the then associate general counsel\n\n672\n00:31:38.120 --> 00:31:40.280\nto become the general counsel.\n\n673\n00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:43.000\nAnd I didn't want to be hovering over him.\n\n674\n00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:46.200\nSo once I got to the chief operating officer role,\n\n675\n00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.960\nI kind of did everything other than the law practice.\n\n676\n00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.520\nAnd I just kind of put it in the rear view mirror\n\n677\n00:31:51.520 --> 00:31:55.600\nand I really have not looked back.\n\n678\n00:31:55.600 --> 00:31:59.600\nAnd I am probably my own worst lawyer\n\n679\n00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:01.600\nbecause I'm willing to take any risk.\n\n680\n00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:02.440\nIt's out there.\n\n681\n00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:04.880\nSo I need to make sure I've got lawyers\n\n682\n00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.760\nactually checking me on.\n\n683\n00:32:06.760 --> 00:32:08.680\n- And now you need a good lawyer.\n\n684\n00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:10.600\n- Well, exactly, yeah.\n\n685\n00:32:10.600 --> 00:32:13.760\n- You said you never aspired to be a CEO.\n\n686\n00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:16.160\nWhat change, was there a moment where you said,\n\n687\n00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.160\n\"Hey, you know, I'd really like to run the whole thing?\"\n\n688\n00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:21.800\n- Well, first of all, the opportunity came up.\n\n689\n00:32:21.800 --> 00:32:25.000\nYou know, I don't, when I say I didn't really aspire\n\n690\n00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.080\nto be one, I wasn't against it, but at the same time,\n\n691\n00:32:29.080 --> 00:32:31.080\nyou know, I wasn't out there kind of marketing myself\n\n692\n00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:31.920\nto do it.\n\n693\n00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.960\nSo the Tacova's opportunity came up.\n\n694\n00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:36.200\nI almost lost the job.\n\n695\n00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:39.880\nI remembered a dinner with several of the board members\n\n696\n00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:41.880\nand it was a great dinner and thought,\n\n697\n00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.600\nokay, well, this is going incredibly well.\n\n698\n00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:45.360\nAnd then one of the board members said,\n\n699\n00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:47.680\n\"So why do you want to be a CEO?\"\n\n700\n00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:50.160\nAnd I'm like, \"Well, I really don't.\"\n\n701\n00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.160\nThis just kind of came up and it wasn't a great answer.\n\n702\n00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:55.680\nI think that what intrigued me about it, I guess,\n\n703\n00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:00.680\nis, you know, in my role before on the executive team,\n\n704\n00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:02.600\nI could influence things.\n\n705\n00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:05.480\nI could beat my head against the wall sometimes\n\n706\n00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.360\nwhen I couldn't influence things.\n\n707\n00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:10.720\nBut I thought sometimes I'd be watching a train wreck\n\n708\n00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:12.320\nthat if I could just nip it in the butt\n\n709\n00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:16.360\nand make a call earlier, things would have been a lot easier.\n\n710\n00:33:16.360 --> 00:33:20.080\nAnd so while I like to build consensus\n\n711\n00:33:20.080 --> 00:33:23.040\nand make sure we've got people that are bought in\n\n712\n00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:25.600\nto decisions that are being made,\n\n713\n00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:28.200\nit is nice to make a call and move on.\n\n714\n00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.040\nAnd, you know, once we make that call and move on,\n\n715\n00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:33.080\nI want to hear people's opinions and ideas,\n\n716\n00:33:33.080 --> 00:33:36.920\nbut I can't get unanimity in every decision.\n\n717\n00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.440\nAnd but once we've kind of deliberated,\n\n718\n00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:41.840\nI expect everyone to get in the boat\n\n719\n00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:43.760\nand start rowing hard instead of going back\n\n720\n00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:46.520\nto their team saying, \"I told them this isn't going to work.\n\n721\n00:33:46.520 --> 00:33:47.480\nWe'll see.\"\n\n722\n00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.160\n'Cause then it's not going to work, right?\n\n723\n00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.880\nSo I like to get the buy-in, but at the same time,\n\n724\n00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.840\nyou got to be able to make a call and move on.\n\n725\n00:33:55.840 --> 00:33:57.800\nAnd I think in this role,\n\n726\n00:33:57.800 --> 00:33:59.800\nthat's been the most refreshing part of it.\n\n727\n00:33:59.800 --> 00:34:02.800\nNow, the other part that I got to be careful of\n\n728\n00:34:02.800 --> 00:34:05.880\nis people take my words literally.\n\n729\n00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.960\nAnd when I say, and I may think something's a good idea,\n\n730\n00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:11.200\nI don't want them just running with it\n\n731\n00:34:11.200 --> 00:34:12.600\nsaying, \"Well, David said we should do this.\"\n\n732\n00:34:12.600 --> 00:34:14.200\nLike, no, no, no, I was raising it\n\n733\n00:34:14.200 --> 00:34:15.640\nto see if we think it's a good idea.\n\n734\n00:34:15.640 --> 00:34:18.400\nDon't just, you know, so I'm,\n\n735\n00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.000\nI got to be careful about being, you know,\n\n736\n00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.640\nsort of interpreted too literally, if you will.\n\n737\n00:34:23.640 --> 00:34:28.280\n- Yeah, you know, so Paul Hedrick was the founder of Tikobas.\n\n738\n00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:32.560\nYou know, what's the biggest leadership thing you've learned\n\n739\n00:34:32.560 --> 00:34:34.680\nfrom watching him in action?\n\n740\n00:34:34.680 --> 00:34:37.400\n- I think Paul's got a lot of the characteristics\n\n741\n00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:41.640\nthat, you know, he's just a straight shooting guy.\n\n742\n00:34:41.640 --> 00:34:46.640\nI mean, he's never, he does what he says he's going to do.\n\n743\n00:34:46.640 --> 00:34:50.400\nHe's got very good vision.\n\n744\n00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:52.960\nI mentioned about the brand aesthetic, things like that.\n\n745\n00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.400\nSo even to this day, you know, if I,\n\n746\n00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:58.600\nhis main role would be, you know,\n\n747\n00:34:58.600 --> 00:35:01.040\nif we're rolling something out, you know,\n\n748\n00:35:01.040 --> 00:35:04.080\ndoes it fit kind of within the brand guardrails and,\n\n749\n00:35:04.080 --> 00:35:06.600\nand if maybe we're pushing the envelope a little too much,\n\n750\n00:35:06.600 --> 00:35:09.560\nyou know, he's good to sit down and bounce it around with.\n\n751\n00:35:09.560 --> 00:35:13.400\nSo I use him a lot on, on aesthetic,\n\n752\n00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.680\nnot only on, on like the retail design or even marketing,\n\n753\n00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:19.960\nthe look and feel of some of our creative content,\n\n754\n00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:21.960\nbut, but product as well.\n\n755\n00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:23.120\nBut those are the qualities.\n\n756\n00:35:23.120 --> 00:35:26.680\nI think he's got a lot of vision more so than I do.\n\n757\n00:35:26.680 --> 00:35:29.120\nYou know, I'm, I'm not a real visionary.\n\n758\n00:35:29.120 --> 00:35:32.040\nI don't believe I, I hire people\n\n759\n00:35:32.040 --> 00:35:33.880\nso we can empower them to go do their jobs.\n\n760\n00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:35.640\nBecause as I said earlier,\n\n761\n00:35:35.640 --> 00:35:37.880\nI think surrounding yourself with the best people\n\n762\n00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.000\nis the, is the best thing I can do.\n\n763\n00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:42.760\nBut if I'm, if I don't let them do their job,\n\n764\n00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:44.760\nI'm kind of defeating the purpose.\n\n765\n00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.160\nAnd, and once the team is clicking,\n\n766\n00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:50.840\nit kind of allows me to, to think a little bit further along,\n\n767\n00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:54.080\nlike where can this be in five years and 10 years?\n\n768\n00:35:54.080 --> 00:35:57.920\nAnd so I will start sort of thinking about plan B\n\n769\n00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.480\nor what if this doesn't work or what if, you know,\n\n770\n00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.760\nthis happens, then we got to go on a different thing\n\n771\n00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:04.800\nor where are we going to jump an S curve\n\n772\n00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.080\nwhen things do slow down a little bit.\n\n773\n00:36:07.080 --> 00:36:08.280\n- I did some of my research.\n\n774\n00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:11.200\nI saw where you actually said that the,\n\n775\n00:36:11.200 --> 00:36:13.360\nyou, you felt you were a little bit more risk averse\n\n776\n00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.280\nthan Paul, but you just mentioned just a few minutes ago.\n\n777\n00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.760\nNow you're taking lots of risk.\n\n778\n00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.160\nHave you, have you evolved as a leader in that front?\n\n779\n00:36:21.160 --> 00:36:24.640\nIs it, are you, are you more in the,\n\n780\n00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:27.640\nin the take the gamble mode than ever before?\n\n781\n00:36:27.640 --> 00:36:29.000\n- Well, not necessarily.\n\n782\n00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.640\nYou know, I think one reason why I was a good lawyer\n\n783\n00:36:31.640 --> 00:36:35.240\nis that, you know, entrepreneurs and business leaders\n\n784\n00:36:35.240 --> 00:36:37.320\ndon't want to hear you say no.\n\n785\n00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:39.240\nThey're, they're, they're,\n\n786\n00:36:39.240 --> 00:36:42.880\nif you want to know what, what they're trying to achieve,\n\n787\n00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.440\nwhat is the problem you're trying to solve,\n\n788\n00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:48.360\nyou might be able to get them 92% of the way there,\n\n789\n00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:51.600\nwhich gets them all they need in a lot less risky path.\n\n790\n00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:53.760\nSo I think in general, you know,\n\n791\n00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.440\nbusiness is about risk.\n\n792\n00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.240\nIt's about calculated risk.\n\n793\n00:36:57.240 --> 00:36:59.400\nSo I don't want the team falling over backwards\n\n794\n00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.520\noff a cliff that we didn't know was there,\n\n795\n00:37:01.520 --> 00:37:03.560\nbut I certainly don't mind, you know,\n\n796\n00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:05.200\npeople taking a shot at something\n\n797\n00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:07.240\nand it just turns out it didn't work.\n\n798\n00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:09.680\nThose are the biggest learnings you'll have.\n\n799\n00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:11.720\nAnd you can course correct whether it's a product\n\n800\n00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:14.320\nthat you thought was going to be a product market fit\n\n801\n00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.360\nand it didn't, and it wasn't.\n\n802\n00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:18.280\nThat's okay, that's not going to kill you.\n\n803\n00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:21.800\nSo we want the team taking calculated risk\n\n804\n00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.400\nand we'll learn from them and we'll move on.\n\n805\n00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:27.760\n- You know, when you, when you come up as a new brand\n\n806\n00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.760\nand you're building your business, you know,\n\n807\n00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.200\nit's almost like you have that chip on the shoulder\n\n808\n00:37:33.200 --> 00:37:34.600\nthat you're talking about from,\n\n809\n00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:36.720\nfrom not being in an Ivy League school\n\n810\n00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:38.440\nor whatever you work hard or whatever,\n\n811\n00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:40.560\nbut you got kind of a challenge or mindset.\n\n812\n00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:43.320\nIs that a mindset you're hanging on to now?\n\n813\n00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.280\nDo you think you still have a challenge or mindset\n\n814\n00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.840\nor do you think you've moved past that?\n\n815\n00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.760\n- No, no, no.\n\n816\n00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:53.480\nWe complacency is my biggest fear.\n\n817\n00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:56.080\nI, we have a continuous improvement mindset.\n\n818\n00:37:56.080 --> 00:38:00.480\nI think it just, I need people to constantly be curious,\n\n819\n00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.640\nconstantly trying to push the envelope\n\n820\n00:38:02.640 --> 00:38:05.120\nand there's just never a finish line.\n\n821\n00:38:05.120 --> 00:38:08.320\nAnd I think, you know, I think the key is trying\n\n822\n00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.960\nto get people motivated to understand\n\n823\n00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.480\nit's all about the journey.\n\n824\n00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:13.920\nYou know, once you, once you get to the top,\n\n825\n00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:15.480\nit's like, okay, now what?\n\n826\n00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:17.840\nAnd, and I think that having a little bit\n\n827\n00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:20.200\nof a continuous improvement mindset,\n\n828\n00:38:20.200 --> 00:38:24.000\ntogether with stepping back and recognizing people\n\n829\n00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.120\nand recognizing the wins that we've had,\n\n830\n00:38:26.120 --> 00:38:28.000\nI think that balance is important,\n\n831\n00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.080\nbut yeah, complacency is my biggest concern\n\n832\n00:38:31.080 --> 00:38:33.920\nabout an organization and myself, frankly.\n\n833\n00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:35.480\n- How do you, how do you guard against that?\n\n834\n00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:36.360\nI mean, what do you do personally\n\n835\n00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:37.800\nto make sure you don't get complacent?\n\n836\n00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:41.000\nI mean, what, and besides just know it's a problem.\n\n837\n00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.800\nYou know, again, a little bit of intellectual curiosity\n\n838\n00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:47.360\njust on, you know, we've got a long way to go.\n\n839\n00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.400\nI mean, we're a Western small brand right now.\n\n840\n00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.040\nI mean, our goal is to become\n\n841\n00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:57.600\nthe next great American footwear apparel lifestyle brand.\n\n842\n00:38:57.600 --> 00:39:01.120\nSo we've just got a lot of work to in front of us\n\n843\n00:39:01.120 --> 00:39:02.160\nand it's fun.\n\n844\n00:39:02.160 --> 00:39:04.320\nYou know, I think, I don't know,\n\n845\n00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:06.800\nI may be a little bit different, I'm 61,\n\n846\n00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.160\nbut you know, I kind of completely changed careers\n\n847\n00:39:09.160 --> 00:39:10.720\nas I said at 50.\n\n848\n00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:13.280\nAnd so I almost feel like I'm just getting going\n\n849\n00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.200\nin a lot of ways that my team may be sorry to hear that,\n\n850\n00:39:16.200 --> 00:39:19.520\nbut I doubt that.\n\n851\n00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:21.720\nWhat do you do, David, to stay personally connected\n\n852\n00:39:21.720 --> 00:39:22.560\nto customers?\n\n853\n00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:24.760\nI mean, how do you get the real pulse\n\n854\n00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.320\nof what's happening in your stores with your customers?\n\n855\n00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:30.280\n- Yeah, I like to visit stores.\n\n856\n00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.640\nYou know, I live five blocks from our flagship in Austin.\n\n857\n00:39:33.640 --> 00:39:35.720\nSo I'm constantly walking my dog down there\n\n858\n00:39:35.720 --> 00:39:38.800\nand I like to sit in there and sometimes have a beer\n\n859\n00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:41.840\nand just kind of hear conversations and things like that.\n\n860\n00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.840\nI also, I think my team kind of doesn't love this,\n\n861\n00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:49.960\nbut you know, people seem to find my email quite a bit.\n\n862\n00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:54.920\nAnd so while we set a high bar for ourselves\n\n863\n00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:57.200\non this radical hospitality,\n\n864\n00:39:57.200 --> 00:39:59.200\nI'll have somebody email me saying,\n\n865\n00:39:59.200 --> 00:40:01.040\nand I just went into your such and such store\n\n866\n00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:04.000\nand just had a terrible experience and they go on and on.\n\n867\n00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.080\nAnd I email them back and we chat about it.\n\n868\n00:40:07.080 --> 00:40:07.920\nAnd the first thing they say is,\n\n869\n00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.000\n\"Oh my God, I can't believe you responded to this.\"\n\n870\n00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:11.360\nI was just venting.\n\n871\n00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.560\nAnd some of those people I've kept a relationship with,\n\n872\n00:40:14.560 --> 00:40:18.400\nyou know, and kind of there in Seattle, for example,\n\n873\n00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:20.360\nand I'm chatting with a guy in Seattle about,\n\n874\n00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:22.600\nhey, we're thinking about a store in this area,\n\n875\n00:40:22.600 --> 00:40:24.000\nthat area, any thoughts.\n\n876\n00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:28.040\nSo, you know, that's hard to scale,\n\n877\n00:40:28.040 --> 00:40:32.880\nbut we have each retail store do a summary\n\n878\n00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:34.240\nat the end of the day.\n\n879\n00:40:34.240 --> 00:40:35.720\nYou know, what went well?\n\n880\n00:40:35.720 --> 00:40:38.680\nWhat were you proud of? What were your numbers?\n\n881\n00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:40.240\nHow did you bring the spirit of the West\n\n882\n00:40:40.240 --> 00:40:42.320\nto the afternoon, et cetera?\n\n883\n00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:46.320\nAnd so it's a little bit of a summary on recapping the day.\n\n884\n00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.000\nAnd I read, I try and read those every day, every night.\n\n885\n00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.400\nNow it's up to, because we have 56 stores,\n\n886\n00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.840\nit's 56 emails of reading, again, how that day went.\n\n887\n00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:01.320\nBut my mind, a lot of times works in,\n\n888\n00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.840\nmaybe it's my reading a legal background or whatever,\n\n889\n00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:08.400\nbut I kind of get a lot of those anecdotes\n\n890\n00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.840\nthat I do just looking at a spreadsheet of numbers.\n\n891\n00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:14.280\nAnd so I kind of feel like I have a pretty good finger\n\n892\n00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.320\non the pulse when I can read those kinds of things.\n\n893\n00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:19.040\nAnd I think it's fun for the team.\n\n894\n00:41:19.040 --> 00:41:21.440\nThey know I'm reading them and I'll respond on,\n\n895\n00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:24.120\nand email the group saying, wow, what an incredible day.\n\n896\n00:41:24.120 --> 00:41:27.200\nWhat a great story that you helped this woman get to her car\n\n897\n00:41:27.200 --> 00:41:29.760\nfrom, you know, the door, because it was snowing.\n\n898\n00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.720\nAnd she was slipping, you know,\n\n899\n00:41:31.720 --> 00:41:35.000\nand just little things like that are nice to see.\n\n900\n00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:36.240\n- You know, I've heard you say something\n\n901\n00:41:36.240 --> 00:41:37.920\nand I thought was really interesting\n\n902\n00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.880\nthat you don't want to be known as concrete cowboy.\n\n903\n00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.960\nExplain what you mean by that.\n\n904\n00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:48.280\n- If there is a guy on a ranch and he's talking to his buddies\n\n905\n00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:50.000\nand they're talking about Tacovas,\n\n906\n00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:53.600\nI want them to be proud of what they're seeing\n\n907\n00:41:53.600 --> 00:41:55.000\nand what we're bringing to life,\n\n908\n00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:56.560\nwhether it's our creative content,\n\n909\n00:41:56.560 --> 00:42:00.520\nwhether it's a commercial we're running an advertisement\n\n910\n00:42:00.520 --> 00:42:04.720\nor the product we're doing and the way we're showing up,\n\n911\n00:42:04.720 --> 00:42:08.440\nas opposed to kind of, I don't know,\n\n912\n00:42:08.440 --> 00:42:12.400\nsomeone doing karaoke in the snow with a fake background.\n\n913\n00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.120\nI think it's just trying to maintain authenticity\n\n914\n00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:16.920\nis the main point.\n\n915\n00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:19.440\nAnd I think that if we can do that in a way\n\n916\n00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:24.240\nthat makes the true ranch hand proud instead of embarrassed,\n\n917\n00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:27.920\nthen I think that's a good filter to use.\n\n918\n00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.880\nAnd it's one, like we got into wholesale recently,\n\n919\n00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.240\nit's been about a year and a half now.\n\n920\n00:42:33.240 --> 00:42:35.640\nAnd the channel that I wanted to get into\n\n921\n00:42:35.640 --> 00:42:37.840\nis a lot of these independent Western stores\n\n922\n00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:41.120\nthat are truly catering to an authentic\n\n923\n00:42:41.120 --> 00:42:43.440\nWestern lifestyle consumer.\n\n924\n00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.400\nThese are people who've probably been shopping\n\n925\n00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:48.760\nat that store in Howell, Michigan,\n\n926\n00:42:48.760 --> 00:42:51.160\nsince they were five years old and now they're 20\n\n927\n00:42:51.160 --> 00:42:52.760\nor now they may be a store associate\n\n928\n00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.360\nand they've been shopping this since five years old.\n\n929\n00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:56.720\nThose are the people that I think\n\n930\n00:42:56.720 --> 00:42:58.840\nif they're representing the brand\n\n931\n00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:01.040\nand we can educate them about our brand\n\n932\n00:43:01.040 --> 00:43:05.640\nand what our values are and what we're all about.\n\n933\n00:43:05.640 --> 00:43:07.600\nAnd they're selling now to people who,\n\n934\n00:43:07.600 --> 00:43:11.680\nthis is their lifestyle, I think that's growing the roots.\n\n935\n00:43:11.680 --> 00:43:14.480\nAnd so as much as we want to try and bring\n\n936\n00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:16.840\nand open the tent up to Western\n\n937\n00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:19.920\nand opening in places, again, like Soho and Detroit\n\n938\n00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:24.760\nand Orange County, California, et cetera,\n\n939\n00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:26.680\nI wanna make sure we're growing those roots\n\n940\n00:43:26.680 --> 00:43:28.440\nat the same time so we don't just have a tree\n\n941\n00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.080\nthat's tipping over.\n\n942\n00:43:30.080 --> 00:43:32.680\nYou know, you're in a growth business\n\n943\n00:43:32.680 --> 00:43:37.360\nand things are definitely moving in a great direction.\n\n944\n00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.440\nWhat's the uncomfortable truth\n\n945\n00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:40.720\nabout your business right now\n\n946\n00:43:40.720 --> 00:43:42.540\nthat your team needs to hear?\n\n947\n00:43:42.540 --> 00:43:46.160\nYou know, in building a culture\n\n948\n00:43:46.160 --> 00:43:48.800\nand what we're trying to do is build a team of leaders\n\n949\n00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:50.320\nlike a whole building of them.\n\n950\n00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:51.720\nIt's not, you know, leadership I don't believe\n\n951\n00:43:51.720 --> 00:43:55.920\nis a position, I think it's a characteristic, an attitude.\n\n952\n00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.960\nAnd I'm a big believer in a team\n\n953\n00:43:59.960 --> 00:44:02.040\ngrowing in the same direction,\n\n954\n00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:06.360\nvery clear aligned goals is incredibly powerful\n\n955\n00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.680\nand just a competitive advantage.\n\n956\n00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:13.080\nYou may think you've got that going in a great direction.\n\n957\n00:44:13.080 --> 00:44:15.440\nAnd as you start to scale and you add people\n\n958\n00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.720\nand if you're not incredibly diligent\n\n959\n00:44:17.720 --> 00:44:22.720\nabout the things that are important to create a culture,\n\n960\n00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.600\nbefore you know it, it's sideways.\n\n961\n00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:29.000\nAnd if you're putting up with a bad apple\n\n962\n00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.360\nthat's, you know, managing up,\n\n963\n00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:33.280\nthat's throwing people under the bus,\n\n964\n00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:35.120\nthat's taking credit for other people's work,\n\n965\n00:44:35.120 --> 00:44:39.360\nthat's not taking accountability for things they should be taking.\n\n966\n00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:41.680\nAnd you let that fester,\n\n967\n00:44:41.680 --> 00:44:43.920\nyou can go off the rails so quickly.\n\n968\n00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.080\nAnd I think that we're in a great position\n\n969\n00:44:47.080 --> 00:44:50.520\nto have a very collaborative team\n\n970\n00:44:50.520 --> 00:44:52.160\nand it's not that we don't have our issues\n\n971\n00:44:52.160 --> 00:44:54.160\nbut we've got to make sure people are having\n\n972\n00:44:54.160 --> 00:44:56.040\nhard constructive conversations\n\n973\n00:44:56.040 --> 00:44:58.120\nand not letting things fester.\n\n974\n00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:01.960\nBut to me, if we can keep all that going\n\n975\n00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:04.720\nand we're solid on our strategy\n\n976\n00:45:04.720 --> 00:45:06.680\nand what we need to execute,\n\n977\n00:45:06.680 --> 00:45:08.760\nI think we can go a long way.\n\n978\n00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:12.560\nBut as an activist at Deckers once told me at lunch,\n\n979\n00:45:12.560 --> 00:45:14.120\nhis father was a big businessman\n\n980\n00:45:14.120 --> 00:45:16.400\nand he said my dad used to always say,\n\n981\n00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:19.960\nbusiness isn't rocket science but managing people is.\n\n982\n00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.520\nAnd I think there's a little bit of truth to that.\n\n983\n00:45:22.520 --> 00:45:28.200\nBut, you know, I need everybody in on this\n\n984\n00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:32.320\nand it can't just be me dictating,\n\n985\n00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:33.560\nthis is what we're going to go do\n\n986\n00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:35.400\nbecause if you don't have the buy-in\n\n987\n00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.360\nor the right culture to really see it through.\n\n988\n00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:41.600\nSo to me, I think that's the thing I try and focus on.\n\n989\n00:45:41.600 --> 00:45:46.560\nWe've got a lot of creative people, great product people.\n\n990\n00:45:46.560 --> 00:45:49.320\nAnd so I don't really worry about are we going to miss\n\n991\n00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.680\nthe season because we didn't come up with the right product.\n\n992\n00:45:51.680 --> 00:45:54.760\nThat kind of stuff doesn't keep me up at night.\n\n993\n00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.560\nYou know, when you look at your business, David,\n\n994\n00:45:58.560 --> 00:46:02.320\nhow much of a role is AI playing in it now\n\n995\n00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:05.240\nor what do you see happening there?\n\n996\n00:46:05.240 --> 00:46:08.120\nSo what we're doing first is\n\n997\n00:46:08.120 --> 00:46:10.920\nwe're arming the entire team with the tools, right?\n\n998\n00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:14.320\nSo they have a license to, you know,\n\n999\n00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.080\nan enterprise version of whatever tool they need,\n\n1000\n00:46:17.080 --> 00:46:19.920\nwhether it's chat GBT or Claude, et cetera.\n\n1001\n00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.960\nWe've set up, we hired a person\n\n1002\n00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.320\nwho's a very good prompt engineer\n\n1003\n00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:30.320\nto kind of work with people on how to, okay, I'm stuck.\n\n1004\n00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.440\nHow can I get this tool further to do what I'm trying\n\n1005\n00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:34.800\nto get it to do?\n\n1006\n00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:37.520\nSo we're trying to help people.\n\n1007\n00:46:37.520 --> 00:46:38.920\nWe've set up a Slack channel,\n\n1008\n00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:41.080\nwhich is kind of an AI recognition channel\n\n1009\n00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:43.840\nwhere people get like quick wins\n\n1010\n00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:45.560\nand like, look what I just built.\n\n1011\n00:46:45.560 --> 00:46:48.120\nAnd I say me and my team 10 hours a week\n\n1012\n00:46:48.120 --> 00:46:50.440\nthat we no longer have to do this or that.\n\n1013\n00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.480\nSo there's a lot of just getting buy-in\n\n1014\n00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:57.280\nand people understanding that you've got to dive in here\n\n1015\n00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:58.480\nand use these tools.\n\n1016\n00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:59.480\nDon't be scared of them.\n\n1017\n00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:02.000\nDon't be, you know, like, if I get good at this,\n\n1018\n00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.480\nit's gonna, they're gonna just get rid of me.\n\n1019\n00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:06.360\n'Cause I think there's other things there\n\n1020\n00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.240\nthat we can redeploy people to things that we've said no to\n\n1021\n00:47:10.240 --> 00:47:12.280\nbecause we just don't have the horsepower to do it.\n\n1022\n00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.520\nWe might be able to green light now more quickly\n\n1023\n00:47:15.520 --> 00:47:19.320\nby freeing up people instead of doing mundane type work.\n\n1024\n00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:21.840\nHow are you using AI personally\n\n1025\n00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.360\nto develop your leadership skills?\n\n1026\n00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:27.800\nI'll tinker with it quite a bit,\n\n1027\n00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:32.640\njust on, you know, pushing on collaboration ideas,\n\n1028\n00:47:32.640 --> 00:47:36.320\npartnership ideas, things like that.\n\n1029\n00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.400\nI mean, I'm not exactly a guru,\n\n1030\n00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.160\nbut it's amazing what it can do.\n\n1031\n00:47:41.160 --> 00:47:43.480\nI'm not trying to build myself dashboards\n\n1032\n00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:44.320\nand things like that.\n\n1033\n00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:46.480\nFor example, our how to become,\n\n1034\n00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:50.600\nwe had, we had in our budget a million dollars\n\n1035\n00:47:50.600 --> 00:47:54.440\nfor a certain technology to kind of move some,\n\n1036\n00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.640\nwe've got a ton of data in a very clean data warehouse,\n\n1037\n00:47:57.640 --> 00:48:01.440\nbut now how do we mine that data to really make,\n\n1038\n00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.560\nto get answers to questions that if we had those answers,\n\n1039\n00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:07.920\nwe could make much better decisions\n\n1040\n00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.920\nand much better capital allocation type decisions\n\n1041\n00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.880\nand optimizing how we're spending on marketing,\n\n1042\n00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:16.720\nthose types of things.\n\n1043\n00:48:16.720 --> 00:48:20.720\nShe spent three hours on a Saturday with Claude\n\n1044\n00:48:20.720 --> 00:48:22.760\nand came back on Monday and said,\n\n1045\n00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:25.560\ntake that million out of the budget, we don't need that.\n\n1046\n00:48:25.560 --> 00:48:27.800\nI've already developed what I need now\n\n1047\n00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:29.920\nand she'll keep iterating on it.\n\n1048\n00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:34.920\nBut we are seeing those kinds of moves pretty quickly here.\n\n1049\n00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:40.600\nAnd I do feel like we're agile enough\n\n1050\n00:48:40.600 --> 00:48:44.360\nand the collaboration and teamwork that I mentioned,\n\n1051\n00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:47.160\nvery few big things can happen in an organization\n\n1052\n00:48:47.160 --> 00:48:49.160\nthat aren't where you're not dependent\n\n1053\n00:48:49.160 --> 00:48:50.880\nupon some cross functional partner.\n\n1054\n00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:54.200\nIt's just, it's hard to move the needle on,\n\n1055\n00:48:54.200 --> 00:48:57.480\nyou're in a silo and you're really pushing some forward.\n\n1056\n00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:02.480\nAnd so I think the ability to kind of work collectively\n\n1057\n00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:05.160\nwith the teams on what are these things\n\n1058\n00:49:05.160 --> 00:49:08.360\nwe can be building together that really leapfrog.\n\n1059\n00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.120\nAnd that's kind of what I'm excited about.\n\n1060\n00:49:10.120 --> 00:49:12.280\nWe're starting to see a lot of interesting data\n\n1061\n00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.080\nthat when you look at, like when we put a store\n\n1062\n00:49:15.080 --> 00:49:18.120\nin a given MSA, what happens?\n\n1063\n00:49:18.120 --> 00:49:22.360\nAnd yeah, you can see ECOM, what happens to that business.\n\n1064\n00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.840\nBut to truly be able to kind of connect the dots\n\n1065\n00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:27.720\nand see what decisions are being made\n\n1066\n00:49:27.720 --> 00:49:31.520\nand the impact of them, I think is gonna be fascinating.\n\n1067\n00:49:31.520 --> 00:49:35.280\n- Well, this conversation has been fascinating and fun.\n\n1068\n00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:37.120\nAnd I'd like to have a little fun with you\n\n1069\n00:49:37.120 --> 00:49:40.680\nwith my lightning round of questions, David.\n\n1070\n00:49:40.680 --> 00:49:43.080\nYou know, are you ready for this?\n\n1071\n00:49:43.080 --> 00:49:44.520\n- I'm not sure, but fire away.\n\n1072\n00:49:44.520 --> 00:49:47.400\n- All right, the three words that best describe you.\n\n1073\n00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:52.400\n- I would say integrity, loyalty and curiosity.\n\n1074\n00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.360\n- If you could be one person for a day\n\n1075\n00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:56.400\nbeside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1076\n00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:58.240\n- Maybe Abraham Lincoln.\n\n1077\n00:49:58.240 --> 00:49:59.800\n- Your biggest pet peeve.\n\n1078\n00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:01.280\n- Arrogance.\n\n1079\n00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.460\n- Who would play you in a movie?\n\n1080\n00:50:03.460 --> 00:50:06.160\n- Maybe Kevin Costner or Robert Duvall.\n\n1081\n00:50:06.160 --> 00:50:09.560\n- What's your favorite cajun menu item?\n\n1082\n00:50:09.560 --> 00:50:11.000\n- That's a good one.\n\n1083\n00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:13.620\nI would say turtle soup.\n\n1084\n00:50:13.620 --> 00:50:17.720\n- That's great, I love that.\n\n1085\n00:50:17.720 --> 00:50:21.160\nAre you more of a boots on the ranch kind of guy\n\n1086\n00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:23.760\nor boots with a suit kind of guy?\n\n1087\n00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:24.920\n- I like to be both.\n\n1088\n00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:28.020\nI would say that people probably would say boots and suits,\n\n1089\n00:50:28.020 --> 00:50:30.280\nbut how many pair of boots do you have?\n\n1090\n00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:33.160\n- About 52.\n\n1091\n00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:35.320\n- About 52 to be precise.\n\n1092\n00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:36.160\n- Yeah.\n\n1093\n00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:39.260\n- Okay, as a former lawyer, what's something most people,\n\n1094\n00:50:39.260 --> 00:50:42.840\nin your mind misunderstand about lawyers?\n\n1095\n00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:49.200\n- I think their judgment, I think lawyers tend to,\n\n1096\n00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:52.480\nyeah, I mean, I think judgment is something\n\n1097\n00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:53.840\nthat's truly helped me in my career.\n\n1098\n00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:55.560\nAnd I think a lot of lawyers that are good\n\n1099\n00:50:55.560 --> 00:50:56.560\nhave good judgment.\n\n1100\n00:50:56.560 --> 00:50:58.440\n- What's something you've been curious about lately\n\n1101\n00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.520\nthat has absolutely nothing to do with your business?\n\n1102\n00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:06.080\n- I'd say hockey, not only for the team USA,\n\n1103\n00:51:06.080 --> 00:51:08.720\nbut my new son-in-law is a hockey player.\n\n1104\n00:51:08.720 --> 00:51:12.080\nAnd so I've grown up in the south, it's a sport\n\n1105\n00:51:12.080 --> 00:51:13.200\nI've never really followed.\n\n1106\n00:51:13.200 --> 00:51:16.360\nAnd now my wife and I are watching hockey four times a week.\n\n1107\n00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:21.000\n- The one thing you do just for you?\n\n1108\n00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:24.560\n- I would say swim, swimming, exercise.\n\n1109\n00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:26.480\n- Besides your family and friends,\n\n1110\n00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:28.560\nwhat's your most prized possession?\n\n1111\n00:51:28.560 --> 00:51:31.440\n- Oh boy, I'd say gratitude, maybe.\n\n1112\n00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:32.960\nI don't know if it's a material possession,\n\n1113\n00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:34.000\nI'd say gratitude.\n\n1114\n00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.600\nI'm grateful for where I am and, yeah.\n\n1115\n00:51:37.600 --> 00:51:41.040\n- If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1116\n00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:43.360\n- Well, these days, country music.\n\n1117\n00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.320\n- What's something about you a few people would know?\n\n1118\n00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:48.040\n- Maybe competitive.\n\n1119\n00:51:48.040 --> 00:51:49.600\n- What's one of your daily rituals,\n\n1120\n00:51:49.600 --> 00:51:51.360\nsomething that you never miss?\n\n1121\n00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:55.960\n- I would say exercise of some sort.\n\n1122\n00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:57.520\n- All right, we're out of the lightning round.\n\n1123\n00:51:57.520 --> 00:52:00.040\nYou know, I like your choice of actors\n\n1124\n00:52:00.040 --> 00:52:02.880\nthat are gonna play you, I think that's great.\n\n1125\n00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.080\nNobody's ever accused you of having a big ego, have they?\n\n1126\n00:52:07.080 --> 00:52:10.760\n- No, I know that I could tell.\n\n1127\n00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.120\n- What's the absolute most exciting thing\n\n1128\n00:52:13.120 --> 00:52:15.720\nthat you're just so pumped up\n\n1129\n00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:18.440\nabout what's going on in your company right now?\n\n1130\n00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:19.880\n- Just our momentum.\n\n1131\n00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:24.520\nAnd I think a lot of irons in the fire that are,\n\n1132\n00:52:25.720 --> 00:52:29.720\nyou know, I like to think about, you know,\n\n1133\n00:52:29.720 --> 00:52:33.040\nreturns on investment that are either gonna be near term\n\n1134\n00:52:33.040 --> 00:52:35.680\nor something's gonna take a little longer term.\n\n1135\n00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:38.600\nYou know, right now, I think we have a very good mix\n\n1136\n00:52:38.600 --> 00:52:41.400\nof things that are gonna start rearing their head\n\n1137\n00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:43.560\nin two years, some are gonna start rearing their heads\n\n1138\n00:52:43.560 --> 00:52:44.920\nin six months.\n\n1139\n00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:48.920\nSo I like the, just the capital investments\n\n1140\n00:52:48.920 --> 00:52:51.400\nwe're making and the returns I think we're gonna see on it.\n\n1141\n00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:54.240\nI just, I think that the way in which the team has,\n\n1142\n00:52:55.120 --> 00:52:58.800\nyou know, kind of made decisions on sequencing things,\n\n1143\n00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.840\nI think is we're gonna really see payoff\n\n1144\n00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:03.720\nin the next few years.\n\n1145\n00:53:03.720 --> 00:53:06.320\n- You know, you mentioned earlier that you're, you know,\n\n1146\n00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:10.040\n60 or so, you know, and your founder,\n\n1147\n00:53:10.040 --> 00:53:12.040\nI think is in his 40s, you know.\n\n1148\n00:53:12.040 --> 00:53:13.800\n- And he's 37 or 38 I think.\n\n1149\n00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.400\n- Okay, 37, 38, okay, you know.\n\n1150\n00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.440\n- He is, his dad and I are good friends.\n\n1151\n00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:22.000\nBut at that way.\n\n1152\n00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.760\n- Well, how do you, how have you made that work?\n\n1153\n00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:26.240\n- I mean, that's a big, you know,\n\n1154\n00:53:26.240 --> 00:53:28.400\nyou got a lot more seniority than him.\n\n1155\n00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:29.560\nHe started the company.\n\n1156\n00:53:29.560 --> 00:53:33.000\nHow do you, you know, what advice can you give to people\n\n1157\n00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:34.880\non how to make it work with a founder?\n\n1158\n00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.360\nBecause a lot of people work for founders\n\n1159\n00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:39.840\nand it just doesn't work out.\n\n1160\n00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:42.200\n- Yeah, I think, well, first of all,\n\n1161\n00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:44.880\nmy practice of law, I dealt with a lot of founders\n\n1162\n00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.040\nand entrepreneurs.\n\n1163\n00:53:46.040 --> 00:53:51.040\nSo I think, you know, PhD candidates at whatever,\n\n1164\n00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:56.440\nor, you know, doctorate, so I've dealt with a lot of founders.\n\n1165\n00:53:56.440 --> 00:54:02.600\nAnd, but again, I think Paul and I have a solid relationship\n\n1166\n00:54:02.600 --> 00:54:06.800\nwhere I'll lean on him on stuff and he trusts me on stuff.\n\n1167\n00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:10.960\nAnd I think I took the time to earn his trust.\n\n1168\n00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:13.440\nYou know, if I had come in and just said,\n\n1169\n00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:14.680\nyou know, you got to move out of my way\n\n1170\n00:54:14.680 --> 00:54:16.320\nand let me do this and that,\n\n1171\n00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:18.160\nthat would not have been the right approach.\n\n1172\n00:54:18.160 --> 00:54:20.280\nAnd I think he respects that.\n\n1173\n00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.800\nAnd I think over time, I did earn his trust.\n\n1174\n00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.880\nAnd, you know, there's always a why behind\n\n1175\n00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.040\nwhat we're trying to accomplish.\n\n1176\n00:54:28.040 --> 00:54:29.600\nAnd I felt like if I brought him along,\n\n1177\n00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:31.920\njust like the rest of the team, frankly,\n\n1178\n00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.000\nthat we would be in a good situation.\n\n1179\n00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.480\nAnd he is a very, very sharp guy.\n\n1180\n00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:39.480\nI can tell you, I mentioned his vision,\n\n1181\n00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:41.680\nbut incredibly bright guy.\n\n1182\n00:54:41.680 --> 00:54:44.800\nAnd so he challenges me too, you know,\n\n1183\n00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.640\nand he'll ask four deep questions.\n\n1184\n00:54:47.640 --> 00:54:49.320\nAnd if you don't have the answer,\n\n1185\n00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:51.200\nso good luck with earning his trust.\n\n1186\n00:54:51.200 --> 00:54:53.840\nBut so I learned a lot from him as well.\n\n1187\n00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:55.400\n- So last question here, David,\n\n1188\n00:54:55.400 --> 00:54:58.200\nwhat's one piece of advice you'd give\n\n1189\n00:54:58.200 --> 00:55:00.280\nto anyone who wants to be a better leader?\n\n1190\n00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:04.840\n- I think for me, what has worked\n\n1191\n00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.200\nand what I didn't realize until later in my career was,\n\n1192\n00:55:08.200 --> 00:55:11.960\nI'd rather somebody be a learn-it-all than a know-it-all.\n\n1193\n00:55:11.960 --> 00:55:15.320\nAnd I think you don't ever have to worry about\n\n1194\n00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:17.320\nnot having the answers to every question.\n\n1195\n00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:21.360\nNobody is going to be able to know soup to nuts.\n\n1196\n00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:24.280\nHere's what you need to do across a brand,\n\n1197\n00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:28.400\nacross a company, you know, so you don't need to know it all.\n\n1198\n00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.400\nNow you need to go find out the answers to things\n\n1199\n00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:33.960\nor your best guess at what that answer may be.\n\n1200\n00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:38.480\nBut I think I mentioned earlier about insecurities,\n\n1201\n00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:40.720\nI feel like if I had known that\n\n1202\n00:55:40.720 --> 00:55:43.680\nand I didn't have to kind of fake my way\n\n1203\n00:55:43.680 --> 00:55:45.080\nthrough a lot of things, which, you know,\n\n1204\n00:55:45.080 --> 00:55:47.960\ncomes with a lot of anxiety and that.\n\n1205\n00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:50.320\nBut if you just kind of took comfort in the fact\n\n1206\n00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:51.960\nthat I don't know the answer to that,\n\n1207\n00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:53.760\nbut I'm going to go find it out\n\n1208\n00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:55.680\nand find it out quickly and I'll come back to you.\n\n1209\n00:55:55.680 --> 00:55:59.160\nThat answer's fine as long as you go back to them.\n\n1210\n00:55:59.160 --> 00:56:02.240\n- Yeah, and building on that, you know,\n\n1211\n00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:04.840\ncuriosity has to be a trait\n\n1212\n00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:06.160\nif you're going to be a learn-it-all.\n\n1213\n00:56:06.160 --> 00:56:08.680\nYou know, do you have one question you ask\n\n1214\n00:56:08.680 --> 00:56:10.560\nthat you find to be the most powerful question\n\n1215\n00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:12.160\nyou use in your repertoire?\n\n1216\n00:56:12.160 --> 00:56:15.840\n- I'm more trying to understand the person I'm dealing with\n\n1217\n00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:17.960\nbefore I can even know what that question is.\n\n1218\n00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:20.560\nSo it's a little bit of a rapport issue\n\n1219\n00:56:20.560 --> 00:56:24.800\nand just sort of getting comfortable with somebody\n\n1220\n00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:28.600\nand then seeing where they may be paranoid about something\n\n1221\n00:56:28.600 --> 00:56:31.800\nand I may hit a nerve too early or, you know,\n\n1222\n00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:33.880\nI don't think there's one question that I,\n\n1223\n00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:35.840\nlike in every interview, this is a question I'm going to ask\n\n1224\n00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:36.840\nand see how they answered.\n\n1225\n00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:40.520\nI kind of, I'm a little more of a gut feel than that, I guess.\n\n1226\n00:56:40.520 --> 00:56:43.960\nIs that gut, does that come from experience\n\n1227\n00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.680\nor is that something that you've always had?\n\n1228\n00:56:46.680 --> 00:56:48.440\n- I think probably a little of both.\n\n1229\n00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:52.080\nI think it certainly comes from experience and seeing.\n\n1230\n00:56:52.080 --> 00:56:54.640\nI think my judgment's pretty solid\n\n1231\n00:56:54.640 --> 00:56:59.040\nand I think I've got a good feel for people and issues\n\n1232\n00:56:59.040 --> 00:57:01.680\nand I can tell pretty quickly,\n\n1233\n00:57:01.680 --> 00:57:04.120\nif we bring somebody on board\n\n1234\n00:57:04.120 --> 00:57:06.560\nhow they're going to fit within the team\n\n1235\n00:57:06.560 --> 00:57:09.080\nand if they don't, I'm also a big believer\n\n1236\n00:57:09.080 --> 00:57:13.000\nin getting them on the bus and getting them off the bus\n\n1237\n00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:14.080\nif we need to.\n\n1238\n00:57:14.080 --> 00:57:17.040\nAlso a big believer just again\n\n1239\n00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:19.680\n'cause in getting athletes on the field\n\n1240\n00:57:19.680 --> 00:57:22.000\nand we'll figure out the place to put them.\n\n1241\n00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:26.400\nI mean, I'll take a guy and gal willing to work hard\n\n1242\n00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:29.280\nand intellectual curiosity all day long.\n\n1243\n00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:33.800\nWe can usually do pretty well with that type of characteristic\n\n1244\n00:57:33.800 --> 00:57:36.120\nand we'll figure out where to put them on the field.\n\n1245\n00:57:36.120 --> 00:57:37.520\n- Yeah, great, great.\n\n1246\n00:57:37.520 --> 00:57:38.840\nWell, thank you very much, David.\n\n1247\n00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:40.280\nIt's been a great conversation\n\n1248\n00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:45.040\nand I'm going to have to now go out and get a pair of your boots.\n\n1249\n00:57:45.040 --> 00:57:46.840\n- Yeah, see, we got you into the brand.\n\n1250\n00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:48.160\nNow we've got to kick you over the ledge\n\n1251\n00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:49.320\nand a pair of cowboy boots.\n\n1252\n00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:50.960\nWell, thank you for having me.\n\n1253\n00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:52.960\nI love your podcast.\n\n1254\n00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.960\nListen to several of them and so it's a great one\n\n1255\n00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:58.800\nand I appreciate having the honor to be on it.\n\n1256\n00:57:58.800 --> 00:58:00.600\n- Yeah, well, it's my honor to interview you.\n\n1257\n00:58:00.600 --> 00:58:01.440\nSo thank you.\n\n1258\n00:58:08.080 --> 00:58:10.320\n(claps)\n\n1259\n00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:15.880\n- Thank you all who's right in the world.\n\n1260\n00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:18.960\nWe are able to proceed with this conversation,\n\n1261\n00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:22.080\ndebriefing your conversation with the CEO of Tacovas.\n\n1262\n00:58:22.080 --> 00:58:23.880\nThank you so much, David.\n\n1263\n00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:25.800\nYou have made the people very happy.\n\n1264\n00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:27.880\n(laughing)\n\n1265\n00:58:27.880 --> 00:58:30.800\n- Well, I enjoy doing that.\n\n1266\n00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:32.840\n(laughing)\n\n1267\n00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:34.440\n- Do you got boots on too?\n\n1268\n00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:35.920\nCan you kick your feet up on the desk\n\n1269\n00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:37.520\nand just make it all calm?\n\n1270\n00:58:37.520 --> 00:58:40.040\n- I'm not gonna go get my boots, but I have a pair.\n\n1271\n00:58:40.040 --> 00:58:41.880\n(laughing)\n\n1272\n00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:42.720\n- I love it.\n\n1273\n00:58:42.720 --> 00:58:44.360\nI know you have a pair because you actually went to a Tacovas.\n\n1274\n00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:45.840\n- Let's get going, darling.\n\n1275\n00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:46.680\nLet's go.\n\n1276\n00:58:46.680 --> 00:58:49.760\n- I know you have a pair of boots, David,\n\n1277\n00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:51.920\n'cause you actually went to a Tacovas store\n\n1278\n00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:55.160\nto prepare for your conversation with David Lafitte.\n\n1279\n00:58:55.160 --> 00:58:56.320\n- Yes, yes, I did.\n\n1280\n00:58:56.320 --> 00:58:59.200\nI bought t-shirts, I bought belts, I bought everything.\n\n1281\n00:58:59.200 --> 00:59:02.600\nAnd I got a free drink while I was there.\n\n1282\n00:59:02.600 --> 00:59:04.440\n- Well, David, how's the quality of all the stuff\n\n1283\n00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:05.400\nthat you bought?\n\n1284\n00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:06.960\n- Very, very good.\n\n1285\n00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:08.920\nIt better be because it wasn't cheap.\n\n1286\n00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:10.800\n(laughing)\n\n1287\n00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:13.000\n- Well, I can't wait to debrief some of the concepts\n\n1288\n00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.680\nthat you and David talked about in this conversation.\n\n1289\n00:59:15.680 --> 00:59:19.040\nAnd it's just really, really fantastic that you--\n\n1290\n00:59:19.040 --> 00:59:19.960\n- Let's giddy up.\n\n1291\n00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:21.880\n- Get you up and let's go.\n\n1292\n00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:22.720\n- Let's go.\n\n1293\n00:59:22.720 --> 00:59:24.040\n- And David, the first concept is this idea\n\n1294\n00:59:24.040 --> 00:59:25.880\nof radical hospitality.\n\n1295\n00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:30.040\nNow, Tacovas is all in on this idea of radical hospitality\n\n1296\n00:59:30.040 --> 00:59:32.360\nall the way from their frontline employees\n\n1297\n00:59:32.360 --> 00:59:34.440\nand their stores down to the folks in the factory\n\n1298\n00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:36.440\nhelping them manufacture their products.\n\n1299\n00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:38.040\nThey've got free drinks, like you said,\n\n1300\n00:59:38.040 --> 00:59:41.120\nand personalization and shoe shines in their stores.\n\n1301\n00:59:41.120 --> 00:59:44.680\nAnd all this store space that really makes you want to linger\n\n1302\n00:59:44.680 --> 00:59:47.320\nin this radical hospitality.\n\n1303\n00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:49.600\nNow, that phrase, radical hospitality,\n\n1304\n00:59:49.600 --> 00:59:51.280\nradical is a powerful word.\n\n1305\n00:59:51.280 --> 00:59:54.840\nSo I'm curious just what your take is on that concept.\n\n1306\n00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:58.760\n- I love radical hospitality because what does radical mean?\n\n1307\n00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:00.680\nAnd it means be radical.\n\n1308\n01:00:00.680 --> 01:00:01.840\nYou know, it's like, you know,\n\n1309\n01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.720\nit's not like all let's be hospitable, you know?\n\n1310\n01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:06.720\nIt's like we don't want to just be hospitable.\n\n1311\n01:00:06.720 --> 01:00:09.920\nWe want to distinguish ourselves as hospitable.\n\n1312\n01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:14.480\nAnd, you know, it reminds me of the former CEO of Target\n\n1313\n01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:17.320\nwho really put Target on the map, Bob Allerke,\n\n1314\n01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.400\nwho used to be on the young brands board.\n\n1315\n01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:23.840\nHe talked about how the great companies, you know,\n\n1316\n01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:27.000\ndifferentiate themselves in everything that they do.\n\n1317\n01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:30.480\nAnd that's really what Tacovas is really trying to do\n\n1318\n01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:32.480\nwith their service proposition\n\n1319\n01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:36.600\nand even how they work with their suppliers.\n\n1320\n01:00:36.600 --> 01:00:40.680\nAnd, you know, he said, exaggerate your differentiation\n\n1321\n01:00:40.680 --> 01:00:41.760\nin everything you do.\n\n1322\n01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:46.000\nThat was basically a way to say radical.\n\n1323\n01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.080\nHe said, exaggerate.\n\n1324\n01:00:47.080 --> 01:00:49.320\nYou know, for example, he always talked about how important it was\n\n1325\n01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:51.560\nfor Target to have wide aisles.\n\n1326\n01:00:51.560 --> 01:00:54.280\nYou know, the wide aisles were really a big feature\n\n1327\n01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:57.040\nof Target versus other retailers.\n\n1328\n01:00:57.040 --> 01:00:58.600\nAnd he said, if it was up to him,\n\n1329\n01:00:58.600 --> 01:01:00.200\nhe'd make him wider every year.\n\n1330\n01:01:00.200 --> 01:01:03.520\nYou know, because he believed that was really powerful.\n\n1331\n01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:07.840\nSo, you know, I think leaders should look for powerful words\n\n1332\n01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:12.360\nto really demonstrate what they want their people to do\n\n1333\n01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:14.360\nthat will drive differentiation\n\n1334\n01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.600\nand exaggerate the differentiation you're trying\n\n1335\n01:01:16.600 --> 01:01:18.320\nto drive in the marketplace.\n\n1336\n01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:21.080\n- Well, that radical hospitality is serving them well\n\n1337\n01:01:21.080 --> 01:01:23.320\nas they grow and scale their company,\n\n1338\n01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:25.600\nwhich brings me, David, to the next topic\n\n1339\n01:01:25.600 --> 01:01:26.640\nthat I love your take on,\n\n1340\n01:01:26.640 --> 01:01:29.200\nwhich is this idea of culture at scale.\n\n1341\n01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:32.400\nAnd you can really tell that David is on high alert\n\n1342\n01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:33.800\nagainst complacency.\n\n1343\n01:01:33.800 --> 01:01:36.800\nAnd we all know how fast a culture can go sideways\n\n1344\n01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:39.320\nas you scale a business and grow it.\n\n1345\n01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:41.200\nWhat advice, David, can you give people\n\n1346\n01:01:41.200 --> 01:01:43.000\nfor protecting that culture\n\n1347\n01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.880\nas your company grows at massive scale?\n\n1348\n01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:48.920\n- First of all, make sure everybody knows what your culture is.\n\n1349\n01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:51.400\nYou know, explain it in really simple terms\n\n1350\n01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:53.880\nand make everyone know and train everybody\n\n1351\n01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:57.440\non the power of your cultural behaviors\n\n1352\n01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:01.680\nand how that's going to result in great results.\n\n1353\n01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:05.080\nSo, you know, make everyone know what you want to stand for\n\n1354\n01:02:05.080 --> 01:02:06.520\nand why it's important.\n\n1355\n01:02:06.520 --> 01:02:07.760\nThat's important.\n\n1356\n01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:09.840\nAnd I think you have to train people on your culture.\n\n1357\n01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.360\nSo when you have new people come in,\n\n1358\n01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:16.200\nyou have a, you know, at Yum, we had the Yum experience,\n\n1359\n01:02:16.200 --> 01:02:18.440\nyou know, where this, you know, we had two days\n\n1360\n01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:21.680\nof indoctrination on what our culture was and why.\n\n1361\n01:02:21.680 --> 01:02:23.320\nAnd I think that's very important.\n\n1362\n01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:25.160\nAnd then, then measure it.\n\n1363\n01:02:25.160 --> 01:02:26.760\nAnything that's important, you measure.\n\n1364\n01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:29.120\nSo we always measured our culture, you know,\n\n1365\n01:02:29.120 --> 01:02:33.720\nin our restaurants and in our regions\n\n1366\n01:02:33.720 --> 01:02:36.080\nand in our divisions, in our headquarters.\n\n1367\n01:02:36.080 --> 01:02:38.200\nYou know, how well are we really, you know,\n\n1368\n01:02:38.200 --> 01:02:40.280\nwalking the talk on our cultural behaviors?\n\n1369\n01:02:40.280 --> 01:02:43.760\nYou know, I think that basically says a lot.\n\n1370\n01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.400\nBut I tell you one thing that really drives your culture\n\n1371\n01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:48.800\nand maintains it, promotes people\n\n1372\n01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:52.200\nwho walk the talk on your culture.\n\n1373\n01:02:52.200 --> 01:02:54.960\nBecause when people know that that's how you get promoted,\n\n1374\n01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:56.640\nyou know, culture doesn't have a tendency\n\n1375\n01:02:56.640 --> 01:02:57.840\nto go away.\n\n1376\n01:02:57.840 --> 01:02:59.640\nAnd then I think in terms of complacency,\n\n1377\n01:02:59.640 --> 01:03:01.760\nwhich is one of the things that he was very careful on,\n\n1378\n01:03:01.760 --> 01:03:03.720\nyou got to continually be raised in the bar.\n\n1379\n01:03:03.720 --> 01:03:04.720\nYou're never satisfied.\n\n1380\n01:03:04.720 --> 01:03:06.320\nYou got to have a healthy dissatisfaction\n\n1381\n01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:07.160\nwith the status quo.\n\n1382\n01:03:07.160 --> 01:03:09.120\nAnd that comes from the leader.\n\n1383\n01:03:09.120 --> 01:03:13.320\nYou know, you can't walk by mediocre performance.\n\n1384\n01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:14.640\nYou can never walk by it.\n\n1385\n01:03:14.640 --> 01:03:19.320\nAnd so you got to let people, you know what's good.\n\n1386\n01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:22.720\nAnd then when you see good, recognize the hell out of it.\n\n1387\n01:03:22.720 --> 01:03:27.200\nIt really is shocking to think about how many businesses,\n\n1388\n01:03:27.200 --> 01:03:31.200\nor how many huge businesses aren't telling people\n\n1389\n01:03:31.200 --> 01:03:32.720\nwhat their culture is.\n\n1390\n01:03:32.720 --> 01:03:36.400\nI mean, I feel like if you walked into the doors\n\n1391\n01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.520\nof a huge corporation somewhere and you asked any employee,\n\n1392\n01:03:39.520 --> 01:03:40.600\nyou know, what is your culture,\n\n1393\n01:03:40.600 --> 01:03:42.840\nthe number of people who aren't able to answer that question\n\n1394\n01:03:42.840 --> 01:03:44.600\nis kind of staggering.\n\n1395\n01:03:44.600 --> 01:03:46.800\nSo, I mean, I love what you said, David, it's so simple.\n\n1396\n01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:50.200\nMake sure everyone knows what your culture is.\n\n1397\n01:03:50.200 --> 01:03:52.640\n- You know, that's why there's so many toxic workplaces.\n\n1398\n01:03:52.640 --> 01:03:55.640\nYou know, and the statistics are staggering is people,\n\n1399\n01:03:55.640 --> 01:03:58.000\npeople don't know what the culture is,\n\n1400\n01:03:58.000 --> 01:03:59.920\nand the culture isn't lived out.\n\n1401\n01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:03.600\nAnd many times the culture is articulated,\n\n1402\n01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:07.320\nbut it's on a laminated, you know, plaque\n\n1403\n01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:09.520\nthat's in the corner office,\n\n1404\n01:04:09.520 --> 01:04:12.840\nsomewhere where nobody really understands what it is.\n\n1405\n01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:14.080\nAnd, you know, I think as leaders,\n\n1406\n01:04:14.080 --> 01:04:16.080\nyou have to bring your culture alive\n\n1407\n01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:20.400\nin the ways that I talked about.\n\n1408\n01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:23.000\n- Moving on to the final topic, David,\n\n1409\n01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:24.720\nthat I love your thoughts on.\n\n1410\n01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:28.880\nDavid is, Ticobas, David, is 50 years old\n\n1411\n01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:31.560\nand he was a corporate lawyer for 25 years\n\n1412\n01:04:31.560 --> 01:04:34.640\nbefore making the move into the C-suite\n\n1413\n01:04:34.640 --> 01:04:36.920\nfor shoe and apparel companies at his age.\n\n1414\n01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:41.280\nNow, that's a big change relatively later in one's career.\n\n1415\n01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:44.320\nIf someone is considering a career pivot like this\n\n1416\n01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:47.640\nand really wants to go from a functional expert\n\n1417\n01:04:47.640 --> 01:04:51.080\nto a general manager, what coaching would you give them?\n\n1418\n01:04:51.080 --> 01:04:53.480\n- The first thing I'd say is you got to really be\n\n1419\n01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:58.040\nan avid learner of the business.\n\n1420\n01:04:58.040 --> 01:05:01.440\nYou know, I've seen marketing people fall asleep\n\n1421\n01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:04.040\nas soon as people started talking about finance.\n\n1422\n01:05:04.040 --> 01:05:06.680\nI've seen finance people start to yawn\n\n1423\n01:05:06.680 --> 01:05:10.480\nas soon as the marketing in person starts to talk.\n\n1424\n01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:12.240\nYou got to be an avid learner.\n\n1425\n01:05:12.240 --> 01:05:13.920\nYou got to care about the whole business.\n\n1426\n01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:16.320\nYou got to own the whole business.\n\n1427\n01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:17.960\nYou know, so you got to act like a owner.\n\n1428\n01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:20.200\nI think if you want to move into a general manager role,\n\n1429\n01:05:20.200 --> 01:05:22.520\nyou got to think like a general manager\n\n1430\n01:05:22.520 --> 01:05:24.160\nand you got to show people that you care\n\n1431\n01:05:24.160 --> 01:05:25.880\nabout the whole ball of wax,\n\n1432\n01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:27.960\nnot just your piece of the pie.\n\n1433\n01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:31.560\nAnd I think that that care is demonstrated\n\n1434\n01:05:31.560 --> 01:05:35.480\nby your ability to go out and learn the other functions.\n\n1435\n01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:40.000\nLearn enough to where you can lead other functions.\n\n1436\n01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:43.080\nYou know, I always feel like you got to make sure\n\n1437\n01:05:43.080 --> 01:05:45.400\nyou don't have anything that's going to derail you.\n\n1438\n01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:46.640\nIf you're a finance person\n\n1439\n01:05:46.640 --> 01:05:49.080\nand you don't really have an understanding of the customer,\n\n1440\n01:05:49.080 --> 01:05:52.400\nyou better learn how to love customers, you know?\n\n1441\n01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:55.880\nIf you're a supply chain expert\n\n1442\n01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:59.920\nand you have no interest in marketing,\n\n1443\n01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:01.160\nyou better learn something.\n\n1444\n01:06:01.160 --> 01:06:05.560\nAnd so you got to demonstrate a capability\n\n1445\n01:06:05.560 --> 01:06:08.840\nand a willingness and a huge desire\n\n1446\n01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:12.600\nto know and be able to lead the entire business,\n\n1447\n01:06:12.600 --> 01:06:16.160\nnot just what you're accountable for.\n\n1448\n01:06:16.160 --> 01:06:18.880\n- And David, how do you report back to your boss\n\n1449\n01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:22.040\nor to the person who would put you in that new role\n\n1450\n01:06:22.040 --> 01:06:23.800\nthat you have gone out and done that learning?\n\n1451\n01:06:23.800 --> 01:06:25.480\n'Cause it's one thing to go do it.\n\n1452\n01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:27.240\nBut how do you make sure the people\n\n1453\n01:06:27.240 --> 01:06:31.040\nthat you're trying to keep informed of your activity?\n\n1454\n01:06:31.040 --> 01:06:33.640\nHow do you make sure that they know that you've done that?\n\n1455\n01:06:33.640 --> 01:06:34.480\n- They'll see it.\n\n1456\n01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:37.720\nThey'll see it in your contribution to the business, okay?\n\n1457\n01:06:37.720 --> 01:06:39.640\nYou know, it reminds me of a great story.\n\n1458\n01:06:39.640 --> 01:06:41.600\nI loved from John Wooden.\n\n1459\n01:06:41.600 --> 01:06:45.760\nAnd John Wooden thought recognition was really important, okay?\n\n1460\n01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:48.880\nAnd he felt that every times any one of his players\n\n1461\n01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:52.280\nthrew a ball to somebody and helped somebody score a basket,\n\n1462\n01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:53.280\nokay?\n\n1463\n01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:56.000\nThey should, whoever scored that basket\n\n1464\n01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:59.960\nshould acknowledge the person who either set the pick\n\n1465\n01:06:59.960 --> 01:07:03.640\nor through the pass or whatever that helped them\n\n1466\n01:07:03.640 --> 01:07:05.240\nmake the basket.\n\n1467\n01:07:05.240 --> 01:07:07.760\nAnd he said, \"One of the players said to him one time.\"\n\n1468\n01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.880\nWell, what if they're not watching coach?\n\n1469\n01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:14.360\nAnd the coach said, \"Oh, they'll be looking, okay?\"\n\n1470\n01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:16.960\nAnd I think the people that you work for,\n\n1471\n01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.560\nthey're looking at you all the time.\n\n1472\n01:07:19.560 --> 01:07:21.240\nThey're not gonna put you in a job\n\n1473\n01:07:21.240 --> 01:07:23.520\nunless you demonstrate you have the capability\n\n1474\n01:07:23.520 --> 01:07:25.560\nto take on more responsibility.\n\n1475\n01:07:25.560 --> 01:07:29.320\nSo you gotta show people that you really are interested\n\n1476\n01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:30.600\nin the total business.\n\n1477\n01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:35.160\nAnd I really believe acting like an owner\n\n1478\n01:07:35.160 --> 01:07:37.640\nand acting like someone who owns the total business\n\n1479\n01:07:37.640 --> 01:07:40.560\nis really critical for anybody\n\n1480\n01:07:40.560 --> 01:07:42.200\nwho wants to be a general manager.\n\n1481\n01:07:43.240 --> 01:07:44.960\n- David, as we wrap this episode up,\n\n1482\n01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:46.720\nwhat do you really want people to be thinking about\n\n1483\n01:07:46.720 --> 01:07:48.720\nas they try to apply some of these insights\n\n1484\n01:07:48.720 --> 01:07:50.760\nto their lives and to their leadership?\n\n1485\n01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:52.920\n- Okay, if you've got something that's really important\n\n1486\n01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:54.600\nthat you think's gonna drive your business,\n\n1487\n01:07:54.600 --> 01:07:56.720\nexaggerate the differentiation.\n\n1488\n01:07:56.720 --> 01:07:59.520\nBe radical in the words that you choose.\n\n1489\n01:07:59.520 --> 01:08:02.360\nNumber two, if you wanna really make sure\n\n1490\n01:08:02.360 --> 01:08:03.640\nyou have a powerful culture,\n\n1491\n01:08:03.640 --> 01:08:07.480\ntake the time to seat it deep in all the ways that it takes\n\n1492\n01:08:07.480 --> 01:08:10.160\nto make sure that people understand what the culture is\n\n1493\n01:08:10.160 --> 01:08:11.560\nand it stays alive.\n\n1494\n01:08:11.560 --> 01:08:14.440\nAnd then number three, if you wanna be a general manager,\n\n1495\n01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:17.280\nyou wanna make a big career pivot into something else,\n\n1496\n01:08:17.280 --> 01:08:20.240\nyou better show a very active interest in the total business\n\n1497\n01:08:20.240 --> 01:08:24.000\nand whatever function that you don't have a real knowledge in.\n\n1498\n01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.120\nSo that you at least get competent enough at it\n\n1499\n01:08:26.120 --> 01:08:28.960\nthat you can help lead it and coach it\n\n1500\n01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:33.960\nand be a powerful player that can make a difference\n\n1501\n01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:35.920\nin the business.\n\n1502\n01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:40.320\nRecognizing that your core function capability\n\n1503\n01:08:40.320 --> 01:08:42.760\nis always gonna be a strong suit.\n\n1504\n01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:44.440\nYou just gotta make sure the other stuff\n\n1505\n01:08:44.440 --> 01:08:47.120\nis not something that will derail you.\n\n1506\n01:08:47.120 --> 01:08:48.840\n- I love it, David.\n\n1507\n01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:51.600\nWell, thank you again so much for an excellent episode\n\n1508\n01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:52.480\nof How Leaders Lead.\n\n1509\n01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:54.040\nThank you also to David Lafitte\n\n1510\n01:08:54.040 --> 01:08:55.160\nfor your wonderful insights.\n\n1511\n01:08:55.160 --> 01:08:57.800\nAnd thank you, of course, to you, our listeners.\n\n1512\n01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:00.040\nStay tuned for another episode of How Leaders Lead\n\n1513\n01:09:00.040 --> 01:09:02.400\nnext Thursday and we will see you soon.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL2076894049.mp3","dx_media_id",3720,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-05-28","itunes_episode_id",293,"youtube_id","-XCa_VLvESI","2026-08-19T21:40:49.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with David Lafitte, CEO of Tecovas, and discover how to bring radical hospitality not just to your customers but also to your whole 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