[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_141":-5,"_142":-5,"_143":144,"_145":146,"_147":148},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3370/if-you-avoid-conflict-youll-struggle","id",3370,"title","If you avoid conflict, you’ll struggle","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.920\nAnd because of the way I grew up, David, I completely avoided conflict as much\n\n2\n00:00:06.920 --> 00:00:08.480\nas possible.\n\n3\n00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:11.960\nAnd when you're a leader, you can avoid conflict.\n\n4\n00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.880\nIf you avoid conflict, you're going to struggle big time.\n\n5\n00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:19.170\nAnd in the soccer world, I don't know how it compares to the corporate world,\n\n6\n00:00:19.170 --> 00:00:19.600\nbut in\n\n7\n00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:23.320\nthe soccer world or in the sports world, it can be a massive problem.\n\n8\n00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:31.840\nAnd I see most coaches that fail will not address conflict and/or address\n\n9\n00:00:31.840 --> 00:00:33.280\nissues just\n\n10\n00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:34.760\nhead on, right?\n\n11\n00:00:34.760 --> 00:00:40.060\nAnd so that taught me, I did coach for a little bit here in San Diego.\n\n12\n00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:43.630\nWhen you're telling a player something they don't want to hear, there is very\n\n13\n00:00:43.630 --> 00:00:44.040\nmuch an\n\n14\n00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:53.960\nart to it, and my opinion is to be compassionate with it, but very direct.\n\n15\n00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:58.130\nAnd I learned with my dad that just being direct and telling him, \"You hurt me,\n\n16\n00:00:58.130 --> 00:00:58.640\nyou hurt\n\n17\n00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:03.120\nmy sister, you were not good to us,\" and laying it out there, and he was able\n\n18\n00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:03.660\nto take\n\n19\n00:01:03.660 --> 00:01:08.640\nit and accept it and deal with it, and then move on, gave me confidence to then\n\n20\n00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:09.200\ndo that\n\n21\n00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.280\nin my soccer life as well.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1697000,"end_time",1768299,"keywords","Communication, conflict, relationship, compassionate, direct, feedback","slug","if-you-avoid-conflict-youll-struggle","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","9hjKf6HqowkbeklevKRbpbapbPN01XAgpFelMs7AlJ2Y","mux_asset_id","2e200DyQjwg86J5O01bbDRZN4oy5W00duKNpCId6DCLKfA","leader_id",284,"episode_id",434,"updated_at","2026-06-18T19:17:37.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3370/if-you-avoid-conflict-youll-struggle","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_109":110,"_25":111,"_112":113,"_62":114,"_58":114,"_115":116,"_70":117,"_39":118,"_119":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_120":121,"_93":122,"_44":123,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_46":-5,"_128":129,"_130":131,"_97":132,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":61,"_62":63,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":76,"_35":36,"_39":77,"_41":-5,"_42":78,"_43":-5,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":86,"_87":-5,"_88":-5,"_89":90,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_46":-5,"_94":95,"_96":-5,"_97":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Separate who you are from what you do","separate-who-you-are-from-what-you-do","It's dangerous to make your job your entire identity. With that mentality, failure can crush you, fear can paralyze you, and burnout is practically inevitable. Separate who you are from what you do, and you'll be free to perform at your best.","summary","

The World Cup is in full swing, and if you’re watching, you know – the intensity and stakes are unlike anything else in sports.

So it’s the perfect time to sit down with Landon Donovan, who is widely regarded as one of the greatest American soccer players of all time.

But after a disappointing performance in the 2006 World Cup, he nearly walked away from the sport entirely.

That crisis taught him a powerful leadership lesson: you can’t make your job your whole identity. And that insight – alongside some therapy – gave him the freedom to be his best, both on the field and off it.

The lines between our professional and personal identities can get blurry, especially for leaders. If you make your job your whole identity, it can lead to burnout, fear of failure, or worse.

Landon’s candor and fresh perspective can show you a different way.

This episode is for you if:

You’ve questioned your own self-worth after a professional disappointment
You’ve struggled with burnout (or coached someone who has)
You want to create more accountability in your company culture
You avoid conflict when it arises
You love sports, especially soccer, or just appreciate a good story

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.210\nHello friends, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:04.210 --> 00:00:04.560\nNovak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:07.760\nWell, the World Cup is in full swing, and if you're watching, you know the\n\n4\n00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:08.480\nintensity and\n\n5\n00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:13.270\nthe stakes are unlike anything else in sports. And we've got the perfect guest\n\n6\n00:00:13.270 --> 00:00:13.760\nto kick off\n\n7\n00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:18.160\nthe World Cup madness for us. It's Landon Donovan, who is widely regarded as\n\n8\n00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:19.200\nthe greatest American\n\n9\n00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:23.440\nsoccer player of all time. In this episode, you'll hear Landon share stories\n\n10\n00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:24.640\nfrom his incredible\n\n11\n00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:28.650\ncareer, one of the most interesting being when he almost walked away from the\n\n12\n00:00:28.650 --> 00:00:29.680\nsport for good.\n\n13\n00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:33.740\nLandon's point of view will help you understand the importance of separating\n\n14\n00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:34.400\nwho you are\n\n15\n00:00:34.400 --> 00:00:38.490\nfrom what you do. And if you're a sports fan, you'll love all the other stories\n\n16\n00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:39.200\nas well.\n\n17\n00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.600\nEnjoy this episode, and I'll see you at the debrief.\n\n18\n00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:52.010\nFor a guy who's lived through three World Cups as a player, what's going on in\n\n19\n00:00:52.010 --> 00:00:54.240\nyour head right\n\n20\n00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:58.160\nnow as we get close to this one? Well, what's going on in my head is I'm\n\n21\n00:00:58.160 --> 00:00:59.680\nexcited. I, my first\n\n22\n00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:04.480\never World Cup I experienced was in 94, and I grew up in Southern California. I\n\n23\n00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:06.240\ngot to go to one game,\n\n24\n00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:11.120\nRomania versus Argentina. It was a knockout game in the Rose Bowl. And I just\n\n25\n00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:11.840\nunderstand\n\n26\n00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:17.330\nwhat the excitement is now. I never got to play in a World Cup at home. So you\n\n27\n00:01:17.330 --> 00:01:18.720\nplay in a World Cup\n\n28\n00:01:18.720 --> 00:01:23.510\non foreign soil, and it's exciting, but it's exacerbated in the level of\n\n29\n00:01:23.510 --> 00:01:24.800\nintensity and excitement\n\n30\n00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:29.600\nand anxiety and pressure is all heightened when you're playing at home. For the\n\n31\n00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:30.640\nplayers right now,\n\n32\n00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:35.620\nthey are all playing their club seasons. So they're playing in Italy or in\n\n33\n00:01:35.620 --> 00:01:37.040\nMajor League Soccer or\n\n34\n00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:42.160\nin Germany or in France. In the back of their mind though, David, they know\n\n35\n00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:43.360\nwhat's coming this\n\n36\n00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:46.850\nsummer, right? We're only a couple months away, and they know what's coming.\n\n37\n00:01:46.850 --> 00:01:47.760\nAnd it's always in the\n\n38\n00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.440\nback of your head in a World Cup year as you lead into the tournament. Yeah, I\n\n39\n00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:52.800\nknow you're a golfer,\n\n40\n00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:56.180\nbut how would you compare the World Cup to like the Ryder Cup? Because that's\n\n41\n00:01:56.180 --> 00:01:57.440\nthat team aspect to\n\n42\n00:01:57.440 --> 00:02:01.920\nit. It's actually that's that is a good analogy. And for people who love golf,\n\n43\n00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:02.800\nI know you love golf\n\n44\n00:02:02.800 --> 00:02:08.480\ntoo. The challenge for me with golf is it's just me. And when I have a bad day,\n\n45\n00:02:08.480 --> 00:02:09.200\nI have a bad day,\n\n46\n00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:13.080\nand I suck, and that's it. And it's over. Sometimes you'll play in a force,\n\n47\n00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:13.760\nsomewhere you're playing\n\n48\n00:02:13.760 --> 00:02:17.600\nbest ball two against two or whatever. But the Ryder Cup, what I love about it\n\n49\n00:02:17.600 --> 00:02:18.800\nis these guys get\n\n50\n00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:24.630\nto play as part of a team really the only time for the next few years in their\n\n51\n00:02:24.630 --> 00:02:26.240\ncareers. And you can\n\n52\n00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:30.460\nsee how much they love it. It's what I love about team sports. I can't tell you\n\n53\n00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:31.360\nhow many games I\n\n54\n00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:36.730\nplayed in where I personally played poorly, but we were able to win. And I was\n\n55\n00:02:36.730 --> 00:02:38.240\nstill able to contribute\n\n56\n00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:43.160\nby just saying, you know what, I'm really bad on the ball today. I'm just going\n\n57\n00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:44.400\nto defend and run\n\n58\n00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:49.670\nand be a good teammate and help lead others and try to get us to win the game.\n\n59\n00:02:49.670 --> 00:02:50.720\nAnd in golf,\n\n60\n00:02:50.720 --> 00:02:54.460\nit's not exactly apples to apples with the Ryder Cup, but there is a version of\n\n61\n00:02:54.460 --> 00:02:55.360\nthat where, you\n\n62\n00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.390\nknow, if they're playing with a partner and they're having a bad day, you can\n\n63\n00:02:58.390 --> 00:02:59.520\nstill help your partner\n\n64\n00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:03.730\nget through and win a point for you. Yeah, absolutely. And you played in your\n\n65\n00:03:03.730 --> 00:03:04.720\nfirst World Cup. You were\n\n66\n00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:09.510\njust 20 years old. What's the story from that first experience that you love to\n\n67\n00:03:09.510 --> 00:03:11.840\ntell? My biggest\n\n68\n00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:17.230\nmemory from that tournament, which is weird to say, didn't happen on the\n\n69\n00:03:17.230 --> 00:03:19.680\nstadium field. I was\n\n70\n00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:25.420\nwalking down the tunnel for our first game, going out for our warm ups. And we\n\n71\n00:03:25.420 --> 00:03:27.280\nwere playing Portugal.\n\n72\n00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:32.450\nAnd I was alongside my teammate, Demarcus Beasley. We were the two young kids\n\n73\n00:03:32.450 --> 00:03:34.000\non the team. Everybody\n\n74\n00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:39.950\nelse was probably 24, 25 or older. And we were 20 years old. And he grew up in\n\n75\n00:03:39.950 --> 00:03:41.440\nFort Wayne, Indiana,\n\n76\n00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:47.690\npretty poor. I grew up in a very poor part of Southern California. And I\n\n77\n00:03:47.690 --> 00:03:48.720\nremember looking at\n\n78\n00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:52.810\nhim and making eye contact as we sort of peaked out the tunnel and saw the sp\n\n79\n00:03:52.810 --> 00:03:54.640\nool stadium and looking\n\n80\n00:03:54.640 --> 00:04:00.400\nat each other and going, can you believe these two kids are here from where we\n\n81\n00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:01.520\nstarted that we're\n\n82\n00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.700\nending up here in a World Cup. It was just a moment that is embedded in my\n\n83\n00:04:06.700 --> 00:04:08.400\nbrain forever.\n\n84\n00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:12.320\nYeah. And what did you got to ask you this? What did you learn about dealing\n\n85\n00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:12.880\nwith pressure\n\n86\n00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:19.760\nat such a young age and being such a young leader that other young leaders\n\n87\n00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:20.400\ncould learn from?\n\n88\n00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:25.980\nSo I made a lot. I made some mistakes. So when I was, I believe I was 22 years\n\n89\n00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:26.560\nold,\n\n90\n00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:31.040\nCoach Bruce Arena came to me. We were playing a way in a World Cup qualifier in\n\n91\n00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:31.840\nEl Salvador.\n\n92\n00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:36.640\nAnd that is a, that's not a fun place to go play a soccer game. Let's just put\n\n93\n00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:37.040\nit that way.\n\n94\n00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:41.830\nIt's hostile. And he came to me the day before and he said, \"Landon, you haven\n\n95\n00:04:41.830 --> 00:04:42.560\n't been playing\n\n96\n00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.350\ngreat lately with the national team. I want you to wear the armband tomorrow\n\n97\n00:04:47.350 --> 00:04:48.800\nand be the captain.\"\n\n98\n00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.560\nAnd to wear Captain's armband at 22 is almost unheard of in soccer. And I said,\n\n99\n00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.320\nokay, I appreciate\n\n100\n00:04:56.320 --> 00:05:00.120\nthat. But why? And he said, well, I just want to give you a little bit of\n\n101\n00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:01.840\nleadership. I want to\n\n102\n00:05:01.840 --> 00:05:05.920\ngive you a little bit of added incentive. I want to motivate you a little bit.\n\n103\n00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:06.800\nI said, okay,\n\n104\n00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:10.700\nwe went out the next day. I scored a goal, had an assist. We won two zero. We\n\n105\n00:05:10.700 --> 00:05:11.840\nplayed,\n\n106\n00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:17.010\nour next game, I believe, was at home against Panama in DC. We won six zero. I\n\n107\n00:05:17.010 --> 00:05:17.760\nscored a couple\n\n108\n00:05:17.760 --> 00:05:22.550\ngoals, had a couple assists, and it really, like it really lit a fire under me.\n\n109\n00:05:22.550 --> 00:05:24.160\nThe problem was,\n\n110\n00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:29.030\nin the next camp, which was a few months later, I came in and I thought then,\n\n111\n00:05:29.030 --> 00:05:29.440\nDavid,\n\n112\n00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:34.810\nthat now it was my job to start telling people what to do and how to go about\n\n113\n00:05:34.810 --> 00:05:35.600\nthings and how to\n\n114\n00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:40.390\nmotivate them and talk. And that was not how I was effective. I was effective\n\n115\n00:05:40.390 --> 00:05:41.680\nbecause I was playing\n\n116\n00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:46.470\nwell. And when I would play well and I would run 40 yards back and slide tackle\n\n117\n00:05:46.470 --> 00:05:47.120\nsomeone out of\n\n118\n00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:52.490\nbounds and defend, people followed. My teammates were inspired by that and\n\n119\n00:05:52.490 --> 00:05:53.520\nwould fall. But I didn't\n\n120\n00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:57.600\nhave to say a word. But I came into this subsequent camp and I thought I had to\n\n121\n00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:58.560\nbe the guy yelling\n\n122\n00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.940\nand motivating and talking. And for the next three or four games, my\n\n123\n00:06:01.940 --> 00:06:03.360\nperformance dipped again.\n\n124\n00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:07.760\nAnd Bruce, the coach, pulled me aside after one of them. And he said, \"Landon,\n\n125\n00:06:07.760 --> 00:06:11.600\nwhat's going on?\" And he said, \"I'm trying to be a leader.\" And he said,\n\n126\n00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:18.080\n\"You don't have to talk to be a leader. You just have to do your job really\n\n127\n00:06:18.080 --> 00:06:18.880\nwell and everyone's\n\n128\n00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:24.080\ngoing to follow you.\" And it really hit me that it's what I believe and you've\n\n129\n00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:25.120\ntalked to some of\n\n130\n00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:32.160\nthe best leaders probably in history. What I've learned about myself is just\n\n131\n00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:33.360\nbeing authentic to\n\n132\n00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:37.730\nwho you are is how you lead. If you are naturally a motivator and a talker and\n\n133\n00:06:37.730 --> 00:06:38.640\nan inspire, that's\n\n134\n00:06:38.640 --> 00:06:44.360\ngreat. But that was not me. That's not how I lead. I lead by the way I play.\n\n135\n00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:45.920\nAnd I had to really take\n\n136\n00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:50.710\nthat in and lean into that. Did the coach really give you that self-awareness\n\n137\n00:06:50.710 --> 00:06:51.760\nor were you already\n\n138\n00:06:51.760 --> 00:06:56.550\nbeginning to feel that? No, he had to give it to me. He had to give it to me\n\n139\n00:06:56.550 --> 00:06:57.200\nbecause I was too\n\n140\n00:06:57.200 --> 00:07:00.830\nyoung. If I was older, I think I might have understood it better. But I was\n\n141\n00:07:00.830 --> 00:07:02.080\njust so young and I was so\n\n142\n00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:05.920\nnew at it. And I just thought, \"This is how you lead. This is what you do. You\n\n143\n00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:06.960\ntalk and you motivate\n\n144\n00:07:06.960 --> 00:07:10.800\nand you yell.\" And he said, \"Landon, they know it's not real. When you do it,\n\n145\n00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.080\nthey know it's fake.\n\n146\n00:07:12.080 --> 00:07:18.960\nJust be you. That's okay.\" It kind of reminds me of a comment that Pat Kelsey,\n\n147\n00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:19.520\nthe university,\n\n148\n00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:23.920\na little football basketball coach mentioned to me, was that your job when you\n\n149\n00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:24.480\n're coming up,\n\n150\n00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.810\nbasically, is just crush it where you're at. Just do your job. And then people\n\n151\n00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:28.800\nwill notice you.\n\n152\n00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:34.380\nHow do you feel about that? Absolutely true. And that's exactly the best way to\n\n153\n00:07:34.380 --> 00:07:34.800\nput it is.\n\n154\n00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:39.590\nBy me just doing my job and doing it at a high level, that was inspiring my\n\n155\n00:07:39.590 --> 00:07:40.560\nteammates and motivating\n\n156\n00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.440\nmy teammates because they also didn't want to let me down. And they know how\n\n157\n00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:44.080\nmuch I cared\n\n158\n00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:48.960\nand how much I wanted to win. So just do your job really well. And that is a\n\n159\n00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:49.760\nform of leadership,\n\n160\n00:07:49.760 --> 00:07:52.800\nwhether you're wearing an armband or not. That's a massive form of leadership.\n\n161\n00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:57.840\nYou're reputed to be an incredible team leader. You just talked about your love\n\n162\n00:07:57.840 --> 00:08:02.880\nfor team sports and how your teammates can pick you up. And when you went back\n\n163\n00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:03.920\nto the World Cup,\n\n164\n00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:11.920\nI believe in 2006, the US team was really heralded as being a real contender\n\n165\n00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:12.960\nfor that year,\n\n166\n00:08:12.960 --> 00:08:18.910\nyet the team really didn't perform. What's the biggest lesson that you learn\n\n167\n00:08:18.910 --> 00:08:19.040\nfrom\n\n168\n00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:25.840\nthat failure that still sticks with you? At the highest, highest levels of any\n\n169\n00:08:25.840 --> 00:08:26.560\nand you know this,\n\n170\n00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:32.140\nin any industry, at the very highest levels to succeed, the margins are really,\n\n171\n00:08:32.140 --> 00:08:32.720\nreally thin.\n\n172\n00:08:33.520 --> 00:08:38.310\nSo we went into that tournament no 6. In 2002, the prior tournament, I had been\n\n173\n00:08:38.310 --> 00:08:39.600\nnamed the best\n\n174\n00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.220\nyoung player in the tournament. So essentially at 20, the best young player in\n\n175\n00:08:43.220 --> 00:08:45.440\nthe world. In 2006,\n\n176\n00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.230\nI'm 24. And I just assumed that I could just go out on the field and everything\n\n177\n00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:51.760\nwas going to happen.\n\n178\n00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:58.740\nAnd it was the only time in my career where I played tentatively hesitant, not\n\n179\n00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:00.400\naggressive. I\n\n180\n00:09:00.400 --> 00:09:07.120\nwas a little bit in my own head and more worried about the outcome instead of\n\n181\n00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:08.320\njust performing\n\n182\n00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:11.650\nat a high level. And it taught me a lot. I played three of the worst games I\n\n183\n00:09:11.650 --> 00:09:12.640\nhad ever played in my\n\n184\n00:09:12.640 --> 00:09:17.760\ncareer. I was criticized widely for the first time in my life. And it was a big\n\n185\n00:09:17.760 --> 00:09:18.960\nreckoning for me\n\n186\n00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.330\nbecause I talk about this a lot in the book. I come from a family on my mom's\n\n187\n00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:26.080\nside that has a lot of\n\n188\n00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.870\nmental health issues and the propensity to deal with a lot of mental health\n\n189\n00:09:30.870 --> 00:09:31.360\nissues.\n\n190\n00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:36.150\nAnd after I came home after that horrible tournament, I was really depressed\n\n191\n00:09:36.150 --> 00:09:36.880\nfor two weeks.\n\n192\n00:09:36.880 --> 00:09:43.440\nAnd I had to figure out if I wanted to keep playing because I didn't want to\n\n193\n00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:44.400\nfeel this way\n\n194\n00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:49.200\nevery time it didn't go well. So it was the beginning of a long process to sort\n\n195\n00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:49.600\nof learn\n\n196\n00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:54.720\nabout myself. But the biggest thing on the performance side was I can deal with\n\n197\n00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:56.080\nfailure and losing and\n\n198\n00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.300\nwhat comes with it. I can't deal with playing poorly and not playing the way I\n\n199\n00:10:00.300 --> 00:10:01.200\nknow how to play.\n\n200\n00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.960\nIf I play well in whatever team sports, you lose all the time. That's just the\n\n201\n00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:05.520\nway it is.\n\n202\n00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:09.200\nAnd so I can handle that, but I'm never going to play that way again.\n\n203\n00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.470\nYou mentioned the reason why you didn't do so well was that you felt all this\n\n204\n00:10:13.470 --> 00:10:14.160\npressure. You were\n\n205\n00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:20.480\nworried about the outcome. That happens so many times to so many athletes in\n\n206\n00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:22.480\nsports at every level.\n\n207\n00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:28.310\nHow did you learn how to be free? I mean, because you kept playing and you kept\n\n208\n00:10:28.310 --> 00:10:28.720\nplaying\n\n209\n00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:34.090\nwith distinction. What was it that clicked with you that got you to play free\n\n210\n00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:34.720\nwhere you weren't so\n\n211\n00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:42.800\nconcerned about that outcome? Therapy. It changed my life. I was so wrapped up\n\n212\n00:10:42.800 --> 00:10:43.760\nin my identity.\n\n213\n00:10:44.160 --> 00:10:51.140\nAs a soccer player, that I had to succeed. And when I didn't succeed, my whole\n\n214\n00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:52.080\nworld fell apart\n\n215\n00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:58.510\nin 2006. And so it prompted me to go to therapy for the first time. And what I\n\n216\n00:10:58.510 --> 00:11:00.080\nlearned about myself\n\n217\n00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:07.200\nwas Landon Donovan, the soccer player, is very distinct from Landon the human.\n\n218\n00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:13.450\nAnd that's okay. And I had to learn to, when I step on the field, be Landon\n\n219\n00:11:13.450 --> 00:11:15.360\nDonovan and be at\n\n220\n00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:20.250\npeace with that and lean into that. But then when I got off the field, I needed\n\n221\n00:11:20.250 --> 00:11:21.200\nto be Landon the\n\n222\n00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:27.150\nhuman so that they weren't so tied together that failure would destroy me. And\n\n223\n00:11:27.150 --> 00:11:28.400\nso going to therapy\n\n224\n00:11:28.400 --> 00:11:32.350\nreally helped me understand that. And then I became much more also just at\n\n225\n00:11:32.350 --> 00:11:33.440\npeace off the field.\n\n226\n00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:38.300\nAnd that really helps my performance on the field. You know, a lot of people L\n\n227\n00:11:38.300 --> 00:11:39.360\nandon wouldn't even\n\n228\n00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:44.720\ntalk about the fact that they'd go to the therapist or they had the depression.\n\n229\n00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:50.670\nWhat is it about you that makes you vulnerable enough and strong enough to\n\n230\n00:11:50.670 --> 00:11:51.520\nshare that with others?\n\n231\n00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:58.320\nIt changed my life, David, for the better. It massively changed my life. The\n\n232\n00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.280\npath I was on,\n\n233\n00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:04.580\nyou know, I don't know if it was a path towards destruction, but it was not\n\n234\n00:12:04.580 --> 00:12:05.040\nhealthy.\n\n235\n00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:11.340\nAnd I know what it's done for me. And I see people suffering with things all\n\n236\n00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:12.400\nthe time.\n\n237\n00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:19.530\nWhy would I not speak about that and help people also find that? And I can't, I\n\n238\n00:12:19.530 --> 00:12:20.160\nmean, look,\n\n239\n00:12:20.160 --> 00:12:25.280\nas many, I get as many comments about thank you for speaking publicly about\n\n240\n00:12:25.280 --> 00:12:27.200\ngoing to therapy,\n\n241\n00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:32.080\nabout your struggles with depression, as I do the Algieria goal. I really do.\n\n242\n00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:32.720\nPeople come up\n\n243\n00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.650\nevery time I do an appearance. Half the people will talk about the Algieria\n\n244\n00:12:35.650 --> 00:12:36.400\ngoal or soccer and\n\n245\n00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:39.780\nhalf will say, thank you so much for speaking about your challenges with\n\n246\n00:12:39.780 --> 00:12:40.720\ndepression and going\n\n247\n00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:45.510\nto therapy. It's really helped me in my life. Why would I not want to help\n\n248\n00:12:45.510 --> 00:12:46.400\npeople when it's done\n\n249\n00:12:46.400 --> 00:12:50.970\nso much for my life? You know, well, I really appreciate it, Landon, that you,\n\n250\n00:12:50.970 --> 00:12:51.040\nthat you,\n\n251\n00:12:51.040 --> 00:12:54.240\nyou're so open and you're using a platform that can help others. You know,\n\n252\n00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:54.880\nanother guy who's\n\n253\n00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:58.610\ndoing that that you might hook up with someday, and he's got a podcast is Blake\n\n254\n00:12:58.610 --> 00:12:59.840\nMikoski. He started\n\n255\n00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:04.560\nTom Shews and now he's created, he's now created this new brand called Enough\n\n256\n00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:05.680\nthat you have as God's\n\n257\n00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:11.300\ngiving you, you know, enough to cope with just about everything. And in fact, I\n\n258\n00:13:11.300 --> 00:13:13.120\n'm, I'm wearing the\n\n259\n00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.270\nlittle enough bracelet right now because I love it and I gave it to my grand\n\n260\n00:13:16.270 --> 00:13:17.600\nkids as well. But,\n\n261\n00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:21.830\nyou know, I love it when I see leaders, you know, share their platform for, for\n\n262\n00:13:21.830 --> 00:13:22.800\ngood. And so thank\n\n263\n00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:26.410\nyou for that. And now I got a, I don't want to depress you on this one, but you\n\n264\n00:13:26.410 --> 00:13:26.720\nknow,\n\n265\n00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:34.330\nbecause this isn't depressing. And in 2010, you go back the World Cup and you\n\n266\n00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:35.520\nscore basically the\n\n267\n00:13:35.520 --> 00:13:43.040\nmost famous goal in the history of United States, Ben soccer against Algeria,\n\n268\n00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:44.560\nset the stage for,\n\n269\n00:13:44.560 --> 00:13:49.480\nfor all of our listeners on that moment. And, and it'd be great if you could\n\n270\n00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:50.400\nshare maybe a\n\n271\n00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:54.260\nmemory from that that you've never really talked about before. Sure. Well, the,\n\n272\n00:13:54.260 --> 00:13:55.360\nthe context matters.\n\n273\n00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:00.750\nAnd so what I just talked about in 2006 was a real low point in my career. And\n\n274\n00:14:00.750 --> 00:14:02.000\nso nobody knew\n\n275\n00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.560\nthat right nobody publicly knew that my family, of course, knew that I knew\n\n276\n00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:07.360\nthat. But the subsequent\n\n277\n00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:13.090\nfour years were this process of therapy and healing and getting better. And it\n\n278\n00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:15.200\nled into 2010.\n\n279\n00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:22.500\nAnd so as you know, when you speak to all, all the people you speak to, these\n\n280\n00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:23.600\nthings don't happen\n\n281\n00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:27.870\nby accident. I always say like success is not an accident. It's doesn't just,\n\n282\n00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:29.600\noh wow, he got lucky\n\n283\n00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.220\nthat he was running young brands. That's not how it doesn't work that way,\n\n284\n00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:34.400\nright? And so of course,\n\n285\n00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:38.300\nyou need fortune along the way and things to go your way. But this was lots and\n\n286\n00:14:38.300 --> 00:14:39.360\nlots of work that\n\n287\n00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:44.560\nled to 2010. So the context of the tournament was we tied our first game, tied\n\n288\n00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:45.520\nour second game.\n\n289\n00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.010\nAnd we had to win the third game, not tie, we had to win the third game in\n\n290\n00:14:50.010 --> 00:14:51.600\norder to advance out of\n\n291\n00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:57.680\nthe group. So the game begins. And within 20 minutes, Algeria, who was already\n\n292\n00:14:57.680 --> 00:14:59.200\neliminated from the\n\n293\n00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:04.570\ntournament, but wanted to beat the United States hits the crossbar in like the\n\n294\n00:15:04.570 --> 00:15:06.320\n20th minute and sends\n\n295\n00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:12.570\na scare through us. We score a goal that gets called offside that in retrospect\n\n296\n00:15:12.570 --> 00:15:14.080\nwas not offside.\n\n297\n00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.990\nAnd if it was happening today, they would go to video review and it would have\n\n298\n00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:17.680\ncounted. So that\n\n299\n00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:21.500\ndidn't count. So stay zero zero. We hit the post later in the game. There's\n\n300\n00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:23.200\nthis just big up and\n\n301\n00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:28.920\ndown roller coaster of events happening. We get to the 90th, 91st minute, there\n\n302\n00:15:28.920 --> 00:15:30.080\n's four minutes of\n\n303\n00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:35.450\nextra time. And Algeria is attacking us. And at this point, David, because we\n\n304\n00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:36.560\nhave to win the game,\n\n305\n00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:41.400\nhalf of us, like five of us are basically just cheating up the field. We're\n\n306\n00:15:41.400 --> 00:15:42.080\njust cherry picking\n\n307\n00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.080\nlike waiting at midfield, because we have to go score. And the other five are\n\n308\n00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.640\ndefending\n\n309\n00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:50.150\nfor their lives, trying to keep Algeria from scoring. And it's just this\n\n310\n00:15:50.150 --> 00:15:51.120\nmassive open game,\n\n311\n00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.340\nbecause Algeria has nothing to lose. So they're trying to score. So they get\n\n312\n00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:55.520\nthe ball and they\n\n313\n00:15:55.520 --> 00:15:59.720\ncross it. And a guy on their team has a wide open header from like eight yards\n\n314\n00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:00.960\nout. And\n\n315\n00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.330\nthankfully, he heads it right to our goalkeeper, Tim Howard. And one of Tim's\n\n316\n00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:07.520\nbest attributes was\n\n317\n00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:12.240\nevery time he got the ball in his hands, he would sprint to the top of the 18\n\n318\n00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:13.280\nand look to see who's\n\n319\n00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:16.820\nopen. And a lot of goalkeepers take their time and look around, but he would\n\n320\n00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:18.160\nalways do it. So\n\n321\n00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:21.410\nright when he grabbed the ball, we made eye contact. And I was about 40 yards\n\n322\n00:16:21.410 --> 00:16:22.800\naway. And he just heaved\n\n323\n00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:27.780\na throw all the way down to midfield to me. I got the ball and we're basically\n\n324\n00:16:27.780 --> 00:16:29.360\nfour against four\n\n325\n00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:35.400\nagainst Algeria from midfield, which in a soccer game is a pretty advantageous\n\n326\n00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:36.560\nplace to be as an\n\n327\n00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:42.640\nattacking player. I passed the ball wide to Josie Altedor, one of our strikers.\n\n328\n00:16:42.640 --> 00:16:43.600\nHe rolls it across\n\n329\n00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:47.280\nthe goal mouth. Clint Dempsey is running in front of the goal and gets a shot\n\n330\n00:16:47.280 --> 00:16:48.480\non it. It hits the\n\n331\n00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:54.730\ngoalkeeper. And the ball rolls back to me and I'm following the whole play. And\n\n332\n00:16:54.730 --> 00:16:55.760\nas I follow in,\n\n333\n00:16:55.760 --> 00:17:00.550\nthere are very few times in my career where this happened, but the goal\n\n334\n00:17:00.550 --> 00:17:01.040\nliterally looked like the\n\n335\n00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:06.990\nsize of the ocean. Like I could not miss if I tried. And so my momentum took me\n\n336\n00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:09.200\nright into the ball.\n\n337\n00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:15.150\nI rolled it into the open net and then, you know, pandemonium ensues and we\n\n338\n00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:17.040\nsprint to the corner\n\n339\n00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:24.190\nflag and celebrate. It's a moment that was it's weird to say this, but it was\n\n340\n00:17:24.190 --> 00:17:26.400\nsuch an easy technical\n\n341\n00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:31.190\ngoal, you know, to pass up all seven yards into an open net, you know, every\n\n342\n00:17:31.190 --> 00:17:32.080\nprofessional can do that.\n\n343\n00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:37.760\nBut it meant so much. And so that's why it makes it such a special memory. And\n\n344\n00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:43.340\nto answer your last part about, you know, something that hasn't been talked\n\n345\n00:17:43.340 --> 00:17:43.920\nabout. I mean,\n\n346\n00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:52.240\nthe amount of people in our locker room after the game that I had no clue were\n\n347\n00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:53.280\nthere watching,\n\n348\n00:17:53.280 --> 00:17:57.490\nthe most notable was President Bill Clinton. So, you know, I stayed on the\n\n349\n00:17:57.490 --> 00:17:58.400\nfield for a long time\n\n350\n00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:02.770\ndoing interviews and all that. And I walk in and President Clinton is drinking\n\n351\n00:18:02.770 --> 00:18:03.600\na beer with our\n\n352\n00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:08.870\ncaptain thinking, what the hell is going on? Like, this is like a movie. I\n\n353\n00:18:08.870 --> 00:18:11.840\nremember Reggie Bush being\n\n354\n00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:16.630\nin there. I'm trying to think of else that it just there was so many just\n\n355\n00:18:16.630 --> 00:18:18.800\nrandom noteworthy people\n\n356\n00:18:18.800 --> 00:18:24.750\nin our locker room. And it made you realize how big that moment was. And it was\n\n357\n00:18:24.750 --> 00:18:25.920\njust so much fun\n\n358\n00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:31.290\nto soak it all in. It had to be. And, you know, but sports crazy. And here you\n\n359\n00:18:31.290 --> 00:18:32.880\nare, you're a national\n\n360\n00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:37.600\nhero. You know, you made a goal anybody could have made, but you made it. And\n\n361\n00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:37.920\nso you're the\n\n362\n00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.480\nnational hero. You're a right place, right time, you know, all that hard work\n\n363\n00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:42.400\npaid off for you.\n\n364\n00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:47.120\nAnd you followed up to really make it happen. It wasn't an accident. You were,\n\n365\n00:18:47.120 --> 00:18:47.520\nyou followed\n\n366\n00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:51.360\nin on that plane, you made it happen. You know, but then the team goes on to\n\n367\n00:18:51.360 --> 00:18:52.960\nlose in the next round.\n\n368\n00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.750\nYou know, so what's it like going from like national hero to like, then the\n\n369\n00:18:57.750 --> 00:18:58.560\nteam fails? I mean,\n\n370\n00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:05.390\nhow did you, you know, yeah. So the challenge was the way the tournament, I don\n\n371\n00:19:05.390 --> 00:19:06.240\n't know why this\n\n372\n00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.300\nwas set up this way. The way the tournament was, we actually ended up winning\n\n373\n00:19:11.300 --> 00:19:12.000\nour group.\n\n374\n00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.220\nBecause England and the other game, I think, tied or lost. So we actually won\n\n375\n00:19:16.220 --> 00:19:16.640\nour group.\n\n376\n00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.230\nThe reward for winning the group was we had to play three days later, which in\n\n377\n00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:22.880\nsoccer terms is the\n\n378\n00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:28.460\nminimum amount of time of rest and recovery to play another game. You can't\n\n379\n00:19:28.460 --> 00:19:29.280\nplay two days later.\n\n380\n00:19:29.280 --> 00:19:33.510\nYou can play three, but it is, it pushes you. So our reward for winning the\n\n381\n00:19:33.510 --> 00:19:34.880\ngroup was playing\n\n382\n00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:41.130\nthree days later against a Ghana team that had had, that had two extra days of\n\n383\n00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:41.520\nrest.\n\n384\n00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:45.150\nAnd they pushed second in their group. And I don't know why it was set up this\n\n385\n00:19:45.150 --> 00:19:45.920\nway. So\n\n386\n00:19:46.560 --> 00:19:53.600\nit's not only the physical, but emotionally in sports to go through that and\n\n387\n00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:54.640\nthen have to get up\n\n388\n00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:59.650\nagain emotionally for a game is very difficult. I mean, it's, it's really\n\n389\n00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:00.960\ndraining. And I think\n\n390\n00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:04.780\npeople don't understand that about sports. It's like someone hits a game\n\n391\n00:20:04.780 --> 00:20:06.720\nwinning jumper in game six\n\n392\n00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.440\nto save the series. And then you got to play again the next night or two nights\n\n393\n00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:11.440\nlate. And it's a\n\n394\n00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.460\nreally big moment of motion. I think about the NCAA tournament. It's really\n\n395\n00:20:15.460 --> 00:20:16.320\nhard to do that\n\n396\n00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:21.120\nagain and get yourself going again. So that part was challenging, but we, you\n\n397\n00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:21.200\nknow,\n\n398\n00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.690\nwe get to extra time with them. They end up scoring a goal to win the game. We\n\n399\n00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:25.600\ncompeted well.\n\n400\n00:20:25.600 --> 00:20:29.800\nYou know, it was a 50 50 type of game and they ended up winning on the day, but\n\n401\n00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:30.640\nit was challenging\n\n402\n00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:35.430\nto just get ourselves going again. Hello friends. I hope you're loving this\n\n403\n00:20:35.430 --> 00:20:35.760\nconversation.\n\n404\n00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:39.600\nBe sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode. As always, David and I\n\n405\n00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:40.560\nare going to debrief\n\n406\n00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:44.770\nsome of the concepts that he talks about with this week's guests. So stay tuned\n\n407\n00:20:44.770 --> 00:20:45.920\nto the very end.\n\n408\n00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.920\nAnd I will see you soon. And in 2014, you actually, you didn't make the World\n\n409\n00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.200\nCup team. And\n\n410\n00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:58.410\nfor for a leader watching this and you've just been told that, hey, you've been\n\n411\n00:20:58.410 --> 00:20:59.360\ncut or you passed\n\n412\n00:20:59.360 --> 00:21:03.130\nover, voted out, walked away from you, you, you picked the phraseology. You\n\n413\n00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:04.400\nknow, what's your advice?\n\n414\n00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.420\nI mean, how did you, how did you deal with it? That moment taught me a lot\n\n415\n00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:09.440\nabout life.\n\n416\n00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:15.510\nAnd it taught me a lot about leadership. So when I got, I was walking off the\n\n417\n00:21:15.510 --> 00:21:16.400\nfield and the coach\n\n418\n00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.690\nsat me down and he said, Lana, we're not taking you to the World Cup. There\n\n419\n00:21:19.690 --> 00:21:21.600\nwere 30 players in camp.\n\n420\n00:21:21.600 --> 00:21:27.850\nAnd 23 made the roster. I was the last field. I was the last person off the\n\n421\n00:21:27.850 --> 00:21:28.320\nfield that day.\n\n422\n00:21:28.320 --> 00:21:32.270\nSo everybody else had been told whether they made it or not. And then I was the\n\n423\n00:21:32.270 --> 00:21:32.960\nlast one.\n\n424\n00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:39.280\nSo seven of us did not make it. This was my last World Cup. I had given 16\n\n425\n00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:40.160\nyears of my life to\n\n426\n00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:44.880\nthe US national team. It meant everything to me, everything. So I walked into\n\n427\n00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:45.680\nthe stall in the\n\n428\n00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.920\nStanford locker rooms where we were training. And I, I walked into a bathroom\n\n429\n00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.200\nstall and I sat down\n\n430\n00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:57.920\nagainst the wall and I started crying. And three of my teammates walked in and\n\n431\n00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.520\nsat down next to\n\n432\n00:21:59.520 --> 00:22:04.640\nme and put their arm around me. One was Demarcus Beasley, the guy I referenced\n\n433\n00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:05.520\nearlier,\n\n434\n00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:09.730\nhe was going to his fourth World Cup. He had made the team. Michael Bradley was\n\n435\n00:22:09.730 --> 00:22:10.240\ngoing to, I think,\n\n436\n00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:15.880\nhis second World Cup. And he had made the team. And Kyle Beckerman was another\n\n437\n00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:16.880\nkid I grew up with.\n\n438\n00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:20.720\nI knew since I was 15 years old, and he had made the team. But this was his\n\n439\n00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:22.240\nfirst World Cup at 32.\n\n440\n00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.440\nAnd it was going to be his last. But he finally made a World Cup, which is the\n\n441\n00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:27.680\napex, the pinnacle\n\n442\n00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:33.120\nfor every soccer player ever. So they sat there and consoled me. I went home\n\n443\n00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:33.840\nand I was,\n\n444\n00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:37.840\nI was quite depressed for a couple of weeks. And I was lying in bed one morning\n\n445\n00:22:37.840 --> 00:22:38.160\nand I was\n\n446\n00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.540\nthinking about that moment and how special it was that those three guys who I\n\n447\n00:22:41.540 --> 00:22:42.400\nknew really well\n\n448\n00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:47.190\ncame in and consoled me in that moment. And then I was thinking it's even more\n\n449\n00:22:47.190 --> 00:22:47.840\nspecial because\n\n450\n00:22:47.840 --> 00:22:52.240\nthey had just found out they made the World Cup team. So this is a, I mean,\n\n451\n00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:53.280\nthis is a massive\n\n452\n00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:57.060\nmoment in their life of joy and happiness. And in that moment, they came over\n\n453\n00:22:57.060 --> 00:22:57.840\nand sat with me.\n\n454\n00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:01.610\nAnd I had already played in three World Cups. I had been the star and the best\n\n455\n00:23:01.610 --> 00:23:02.560\nplayer and the captain\n\n456\n00:23:02.560 --> 00:23:05.420\nand the leader and all these things. But they still came over to consoled me\n\n457\n00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:06.240\nbecause they knew how\n\n458\n00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.440\nmuch it meant to me. But then I was thinking about Kyle. That was Kyle Becker\n\n459\n00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:11.760\nman's first World Cup.\n\n460\n00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:15.190\nSo this was literally David the happiest moment of his career and probably one\n\n461\n00:23:15.190 --> 00:23:15.920\nof the happiest\n\n462\n00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:20.900\nmoments of his life. And within minutes, he was coming over to console someone\n\n463\n00:23:20.900 --> 00:23:21.440\nwho had been to\n\n464\n00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.700\nmultiple World Cups and been the star and the leader and all those things. And\n\n465\n00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:26.000\nit was an amazing\n\n466\n00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:32.560\nrealization. And then what really hit me was how many times when I had made a\n\n467\n00:23:32.560 --> 00:23:33.040\nteam\n\n468\n00:23:33.040 --> 00:23:40.490\nand someone else hadn't had I gone over and put my arm around them. And I hadn\n\n469\n00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:40.640\n't,\n\n470\n00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:48.530\nI hadn't like not like that. And it really blew me away because Kyle taught me\n\n471\n00:23:48.530 --> 00:23:50.000\nso much about like\n\n472\n00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:55.760\ncompassion. And that was a big form of leadership. And it changed my life\n\n473\n00:23:55.760 --> 00:23:57.440\nbecause I just said I am,\n\n474\n00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:03.200\nI cannot go through life now. So wrapped up in my own success and worry about\n\n475\n00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:04.320\nthat I'm not even\n\n476\n00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:07.950\ntaking a moment to put my arm around someone else who didn't make the team. And\n\n477\n00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:08.880\nhonestly,\n\n478\n00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:14.460\nI don't say this lightly. Learning that lesson in compassion and leadership was\n\n479\n00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:14.880\nway,\n\n480\n00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.640\nway, way more valuable than going to another World Cup. Because that I'll carry\n\n481\n00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:19.280\nthat with me\n\n482\n00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:24.070\nthe rest of my life. Yeah, that's an amazing story. Thanks for sharing that.\n\n483\n00:24:24.070 --> 00:24:26.080\nAnd I can't wait to\n\n484\n00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:31.450\ndig more into the rest of your career and how you lead. But first, I want to\n\n485\n00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:32.080\ntake you back.\n\n486\n00:24:32.080 --> 00:24:37.120\nWhat's the story, Landon, from your, from your childhood that shaped the kind\n\n487\n00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:37.760\nof leader you are\n\n488\n00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:43.430\ntoday? I don't know if it's a specific story, but my relationship or lack\n\n489\n00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:45.200\nthereof in the early days\n\n490\n00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:51.150\nwith my father has really, really impacted my life. So my dad wasn't around a\n\n491\n00:24:51.150 --> 00:24:52.560\nlot when we were young.\n\n492\n00:24:52.560 --> 00:25:00.830\nAnd when we saw him, it was amazing. But he just wouldn't show up when he was\n\n493\n00:25:00.830 --> 00:25:01.360\nsupposed to have\n\n494\n00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:05.570\ncustody on some weekends. He just wouldn't show up. So my mom would want to\n\n495\n00:25:05.570 --> 00:25:07.520\ndrop us off and\n\n496\n00:25:07.520 --> 00:25:11.280\nhave some freedom for the weekend. And my dad just wouldn't show up.\n\n497\n00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:17.680\nSo at 20 years old, this had been, obviously, this anger and disappointment my\n\n498\n00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:18.640\nfather had been\n\n499\n00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.880\nbubbling over my whole childhood. But I never said it to him, and I never spoke\n\n500\n00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:23.680\nit to him.\n\n501\n00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:29.930\nAt 20, as I sort of became a man, we had a, like a massive falling out and got\n\n502\n00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:30.880\ninto a massive fight.\n\n503\n00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:35.080\nAnd I told him, like, don't ever call me again. Don't talk to me again. You\n\n504\n00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:36.000\ncaused me so much\n\n505\n00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.740\npain in my childhood. I don't want to, I don't want to see you ever again. And\n\n506\n00:25:39.740 --> 00:25:41.920\nfive years later,\n\n507\n00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:50.880\nafter going through therapy, I had a moment in therapy where I forgave my dad.\n\n508\n00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.720\nAnd I genuinely\n\n509\n00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.700\nforgave him and I let go of all the animus and all the venom and all the hatred\n\n510\n00:25:57.700 --> 00:25:59.040\n. And had nothing\n\n511\n00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:04.410\nto do with him. It was all about me forgiving him. And as part of that, I\n\n512\n00:26:04.410 --> 00:26:06.320\nwanted to go see if there\n\n513\n00:26:06.320 --> 00:26:06.320\nwas going to ever be any chance to have a relationship with him. So he was\n\n514\n00:26:06.320 --> 00:26:12.320\nliving in Nashville. So I\n\n515\n00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:16.070\nsent him an email and I said, I'd love to come see you. I know it's been five\n\n516\n00:26:16.070 --> 00:26:16.800\nyears since we\n\n517\n00:26:16.800 --> 00:26:21.000\nconnected, but I'd love to come see you and talk. And he said, okay, I would\n\n518\n00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.200\nlove that. So we went.\n\n519\n00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:32.850\nAnd it wasn't perfect, but I told him I forgave him. He finally apologized,\n\n520\n00:26:32.850 --> 00:26:33.840\nwhich was all my\n\n521\n00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:37.590\nsister and I ever wanted was an apology from him. You know, we all make\n\n522\n00:26:37.590 --> 00:26:38.720\nmistakes, but I just\n\n523\n00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:43.040\nwanted him to say, I'm sorry for what I did. And he did. And from that day on,\n\n524\n00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:44.320\nwe started to build\n\n525\n00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:49.110\na relationship. And so to answer your question, it's not like a specific moment\n\n526\n00:26:49.110 --> 00:26:49.920\nor story, but\n\n527\n00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:57.360\nthe fact that I was able to forgive him, the fact that he then over time really\n\n528\n00:26:57.360 --> 00:26:58.000\nchanged,\n\n529\n00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.580\nhe really changed the way he was and became an incredible, grandparent,\n\n530\n00:27:03.580 --> 00:27:04.880\nincredible,\n\n531\n00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.120\nan incredible parent. You know, I'll never get the years back that we didn't\n\n532\n00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:09.840\nhave, but he became\n\n533\n00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:15.920\nan incredible parent. And he passed away in December, so five months ago now.\n\n534\n00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.760\nAnd I was so\n\n535\n00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:22.870\ngrateful. Obviously, there was intense sadness, but I was so grateful at his\n\n536\n00:27:22.870 --> 00:27:26.480\ndeathbed that I had a\n\n537\n00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:32.060\nrelationship with him because I see so many people and many people, actually,\n\n538\n00:27:32.060 --> 00:27:32.960\nthis has become a big\n\n539\n00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:38.960\ntheme of people. When they read this story in the book, they will say to me,\n\n540\n00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:40.160\nhey, I decided to reach\n\n541\n00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:45.140\nout to my dad. And it really blows me away because it shows a lot of courage\n\n542\n00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:46.320\nthat people are willing\n\n543\n00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:51.690\nto do that. But I'm so glad because the alternative of not having had any\n\n544\n00:27:51.690 --> 00:27:53.360\nrelationship and he passed\n\n545\n00:27:53.360 --> 00:27:56.920\naway, that would have destroyed me. Honestly, that would have destroyed me. And\n\n546\n00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.920\nI was just grateful\n\n547\n00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.870\nthat I had 10 or 15 years with them. That's great. You know, and you also, I'm\n\n548\n00:28:03.870 --> 00:28:04.720\nsure, as a leader,\n\n549\n00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.470\nthere, you learned a lot about the importance of having productive conflict.\n\n550\n00:28:08.470 --> 00:28:10.320\nAbsolutely, right.\n\n551\n00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:18.040\nWhat advice do you have in that aspect of leadership? Well, because of the way\n\n552\n00:28:18.040 --> 00:28:18.640\nI grew up,\n\n553\n00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:25.860\nDavid, I completely avoided conflict as much as possible. And when you're a\n\n554\n00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:27.200\nleader, you can\n\n555\n00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.990\navoid conflict. If you avoid conflict, you're going to struggle big time. And\n\n556\n00:28:31.990 --> 00:28:32.960\nin the soccer world,\n\n557\n00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:37.370\nI don't know how it compares to the corporate world. But in the soccer world or\n\n558\n00:28:37.370 --> 00:28:37.920\nin the sports\n\n559\n00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:45.520\nworld, it can be a massive problem. And I see most coaches that fail will not\n\n560\n00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:47.120\naddress conflict\n\n561\n00:28:47.120 --> 00:28:54.910\nand or address issues just head on. And so that taught me, I did coach for a\n\n562\n00:28:54.910 --> 00:28:55.520\nlittle bit here in\n\n563\n00:28:55.520 --> 00:28:59.590\nSan Diego. When you're telling a play or something they don't want to hear,\n\n564\n00:28:59.590 --> 00:29:01.040\nthere is very much an\n\n565\n00:29:01.040 --> 00:29:08.960\nart to it. And you have to be, I, my opinion is to be compassionate with it,\n\n566\n00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:10.000\nbut very direct.\n\n567\n00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.200\nAnd I learned with my dad that like just being direct and telling him you hurt\n\n568\n00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:14.560\nme,\n\n569\n00:29:14.560 --> 00:29:19.660\nyou hurt my sister, you were not good to us and laying it out there. And he was\n\n570\n00:29:19.660 --> 00:29:20.800\nable to take it\n\n571\n00:29:20.800 --> 00:29:25.920\nand accept it and deal with it. And then move on, gave me confidence to then do\n\n572\n00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.280\nthat in my in my\n\n573\n00:29:27.280 --> 00:29:32.130\nsoccer life as well. And and it's a generational thing a little bit. But we\n\n574\n00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:33.440\nsoccer players now,\n\n575\n00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:38.640\nand speaking about our US national team, there's almost no, there's almost no\n\n576\n00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:39.440\nconfrontation,\n\n577\n00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.200\nlike they don't confront each other on anything. They'll be losing five zero\n\n578\n00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:42.880\nand they're just sort\n\n579\n00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.690\nof walking around the field like going on for normal. And I'd be like, I'd be\n\n580\n00:29:46.690 --> 00:29:47.520\nkilling people\n\n581\n00:29:47.520 --> 00:29:52.550\nif we were losing five zero for not doing their job. Right. And so that is,\n\n582\n00:29:52.550 --> 00:29:53.680\nthat is really important\n\n583\n00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:57.880\nif you want to succeed in sports, because there's no time to say, you know, let\n\n584\n00:29:57.880 --> 00:29:58.880\n's figure it out later.\n\n585\n00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.600\nAnd we'll talk, no, the game's happening. It's the 40th minute you're losing\n\n586\n00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:02.480\nthree zero. You better\n\n587\n00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.270\nfigure it out. I've always think on conflict is so critical that you have to\n\n588\n00:30:07.270 --> 00:30:07.920\nalmost as a leader\n\n589\n00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.320\nsniff out conflict, be a minor of conflict, you know, you know, look for it on\n\n590\n00:30:12.320 --> 00:30:13.680\nyour team and make\n\n591\n00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:18.470\nsure that it gets served to Steve. Do you have a, do you have a story where you\n\n592\n00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:19.200\ndid that and it\n\n593\n00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:24.780\nturned things around? You're almost trying to create it, right? Yeah. And so\n\n594\n00:30:24.780 --> 00:30:27.920\nthe, the only one\n\n595\n00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:34.570\nthat comes to mind is when I was, when I was coaching here in San Diego, things\n\n596\n00:30:34.570 --> 00:30:36.640\nwere going a little,\n\n597\n00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.240\nlike a little too well with our team where it was a little, you know, we were\n\n598\n00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:43.280\nplaying well,\n\n599\n00:30:43.280 --> 00:30:48.070\nthings were going well, but you could see complacency starting to creep into\n\n600\n00:30:48.070 --> 00:30:48.400\nthe group.\n\n601\n00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:52.720\nBut when you're doing well, you can't just all of a sudden just blow them up\n\n602\n00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:53.440\nand rip them up\n\n603\n00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:57.800\npart in a locker room when you win three zero, right? It's hard to like, so we\n\n604\n00:30:57.800 --> 00:30:59.200\nwere someone I\n\n605\n00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:05.120\nreally, really admire as a leader was Nate Miller, who was our assistant coach\n\n606\n00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:05.920\nat the time and became\n\n607\n00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.680\nthe head coach and has gone on to great things. And he would always say the\n\n608\n00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:10.400\nsame thing you just\n\n609\n00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:14.200\nsaid, David, and I didn't know it until I met him and say like, we need to\n\n610\n00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.440\ncreate some sort of\n\n611\n00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.650\nconflict, like we need to find some conflict. We need something now to get\n\n612\n00:31:19.650 --> 00:31:20.880\nthese guys attention.\n\n613\n00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:30.530\nAnd we got a great gift. One of our best players was, he was playing out of\n\n614\n00:31:30.530 --> 00:31:32.080\nposition for him,\n\n615\n00:31:32.080 --> 00:31:35.600\nand he wasn't happy about it. But the team was doing well and we were winning.\n\n616\n00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:41.040\nAnd so I would say to him, hey, I know you're frustrated by this, but we're\n\n617\n00:31:41.040 --> 00:31:41.520\nwinning and we're\n\n618\n00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:47.500\ndoing well. So we had a training session, and we watched it back after, and we\n\n619\n00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.200\nallowed the team,\n\n620\n00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.480\nthis player was on, allowed a goal, and he just walked back and wasn't\n\n621\n00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:53.920\ndefending, right?\n\n622\n00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:58.840\nAnd so I was like, perfect. We have a moment where we can go after one of our\n\n623\n00:31:58.840 --> 00:31:59.920\nbest players in front\n\n624\n00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:04.900\nof the team and say this is unacceptable. So we're showing the video, and I\n\n625\n00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:05.600\ncall them out in the\n\n626\n00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:09.800\nvideo and I say, hey, I don't care if you're playing goalie or right back or\n\n627\n00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:11.280\nstrike or whatever. If you\n\n628\n00:32:11.280 --> 00:32:15.490\ndefend like this, we're never going to get where we want to get to. So you can\n\n629\n00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:16.640\nbe mad about you not\n\n630\n00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.030\nplaying your best position or whatever, but it doesn't matter where you play if\n\n631\n00:32:20.030 --> 00:32:20.960\nyou defend like this.\n\n632\n00:32:21.840 --> 00:32:29.840\nAnd it got, it was a little intense, but he gave us a great gift because he\n\n633\n00:32:29.840 --> 00:32:31.920\nreacted very negatively\n\n634\n00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:37.370\nin front of the group and really came after me a little bit. And so then I, but\n\n635\n00:32:37.370 --> 00:32:38.000\nI was prepared\n\n636\n00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:42.790\nfor it. So I was able then to go back at him. And after the meeting, he walked\n\n637\n00:32:42.790 --> 00:32:43.600\nup and this was the\n\n638\n00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:46.720\nbest part. And he said, hey, I don't think this is the right place for me. I\n\n639\n00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:47.520\nwant to get, I want\n\n640\n00:32:47.520 --> 00:32:52.560\nto get traded. And I said, okay, well, we'll try to trade you. But if that can\n\n641\n00:32:52.560 --> 00:32:53.280\n't happen,\n\n642\n00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:59.530\nwe're willing also to just cut you and you can go find a new team too. And he\n\n643\n00:32:59.530 --> 00:33:00.960\nwas like, fine, done.\n\n644\n00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:05.750\nSo I went to my owner and I said, hey, and they weren't making it in the second\n\n645\n00:33:05.750 --> 00:33:07.120\ndivision in American\n\n646\n00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:10.080\nsoccer. They're not making huge money, but it might have been like a $50,000\n\n647\n00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:12.160\ndeal to cut his\n\n648\n00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.480\ncontract. And I said to Aaron, I said, are we willing to eat this money? It\n\n649\n00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.400\nwill help the group\n\n650\n00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.520\nimmensely, because he's been a negative impact for a little while here. I know\n\n651\n00:33:19.520 --> 00:33:20.240\nhe's a good player,\n\n652\n00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:23.640\nbut he's, he's hurting our culture. And the owner said, do it. If you need to\n\n653\n00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:24.640\ndo it, do it.\n\n654\n00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:28.150\nSo I went back to him and I said, okay, we're done. We're going to, we're going\n\n655\n00:33:28.150 --> 00:33:28.800\nto cut your\n\n656\n00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:33.780\ncontract and you can go on your way. And he said, fine. He came back David the\n\n657\n00:33:33.780 --> 00:33:34.560\nnext morning and he\n\n658\n00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:38.050\nsaid, I thought about it. And I really think I made a mistake. I don't think I\n\n659\n00:33:38.050 --> 00:33:40.240\nreally want to be here.\n\n660\n00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.840\nAnd I said, look, I'm sorry, but it's not going to, it's not going to happen.\n\n661\n00:33:43.840 --> 00:33:44.560\nWe already made the\n\n662\n00:33:44.560 --> 00:33:50.890\ndecision. And that decision and what it did for the group was massive, because\n\n663\n00:33:50.890 --> 00:33:51.600\nif you're willing to\n\n664\n00:33:51.600 --> 00:33:55.370\ncut one of your best players, because they're not doing what they should be\n\n665\n00:33:55.370 --> 00:33:56.320\ndoing, the rest of\n\n666\n00:33:56.320 --> 00:33:59.540\nthe group pays attention, right? And I'm sure you've dealt with situations like\n\n667\n00:33:59.540 --> 00:34:00.800\nthat many times,\n\n668\n00:34:00.800 --> 00:34:03.280\nbut it was, it was the best gift we could have gotten.\n\n669\n00:34:03.280 --> 00:34:07.550\nYeah, you know, that you, when you call out the star and, and you, and you take\n\n670\n00:34:07.550 --> 00:34:08.160\nout the star,\n\n671\n00:34:08.160 --> 00:34:12.550\nyou show that your culture really matters a lot more in the end, because you\n\n672\n00:34:12.550 --> 00:34:12.720\nknow,\n\n673\n00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:16.230\nthe culture is going to make you win. You know, you can't win without a great,\n\n674\n00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:16.720\ngreat culture.\n\n675\n00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:20.480\nAnd you, you've played on the lead teams. What, what would you define the three\n\n676\n00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:23.710\ngreatest characteristics of the best teams you've been on from a culture\n\n677\n00:34:23.710 --> 00:34:24.480\nstandpoint?\n\n678\n00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:30.060\nIt has always started from the top, the leadership from the top. So the galaxy\n\n679\n00:34:30.060 --> 00:34:30.160\nare\n\n680\n00:34:30.160 --> 00:34:35.120\nowned by a gentleman named Phil Anschutz, very quiet. You would rarely see him.\n\n681\n00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:42.560\nBut the, the day-to-day handling was run at one point by Tim Leiwicki and now\n\n682\n00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:43.760\nby a man named Dan\n\n683\n00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:47.580\nBeckerman. And both of them very different and distinct in the way they go\n\n684\n00:34:47.580 --> 00:34:48.720\nabout their business,\n\n685\n00:34:48.720 --> 00:34:56.400\nbut very supportive and provide all the resources necessary to be successful.\n\n686\n00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:57.040\nSo that started.\n\n687\n00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:05.510\nThen the three characteristics when I would say accountability for sure. And\n\n688\n00:35:05.510 --> 00:35:06.640\nwhen the accountability\n\n689\n00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:12.380\ncomes from the coach, teams can be good. When the accountability comes from the\n\n690\n00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:13.040\nplayers,\n\n691\n00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:18.960\nteams are great. And so, you know, when you're running young brands, it's great\n\n692\n00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:19.520\nif you're holding\n\n693\n00:35:19.520 --> 00:35:23.420\npeople accountable. But if everybody under you is also hold, and the every\n\n694\n00:35:23.420 --> 00:35:24.320\nemployee is holding\n\n695\n00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:28.320\neach other accountable, that's where real, that's where real teams are made. We\n\n696\n00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:29.520\nhad a rookie on our\n\n697\n00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:34.960\nteam, a center back named Omar Gonzalez. And he was a rookie this, this year,\n\n698\n00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:35.600\nwhatever he came\n\n699\n00:35:35.600 --> 00:35:41.320\nin 2010 or 2011, 2011, I think. And we signed a player named Robbie Keene, who\n\n700\n00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:42.640\nwas a top 15 goal\n\n701\n00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:48.080\nscore ever in the English Premier League, right? And absolute superstar player.\n\n702\n00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:48.720\nEverybody in the\n\n703\n00:35:48.720 --> 00:35:53.750\nsoccer world knows him like a big deal. Omar Gonzalez one day in training,\n\n704\n00:35:53.750 --> 00:35:56.000\nripped apart Robbie Keene\n\n705\n00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:02.000\nfor not defending. And we all kind of stopped. And we were like, this rookie\n\n706\n00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:03.440\npart Robbie Keene\n\n707\n00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:08.880\nfor not defending. And Robbie went back at him and MFed him and told him, don't\n\n708\n00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:09.600\nyou talk to me\n\n709\n00:36:09.600 --> 00:36:13.280\nlike that? And Omar's like, well, then you need to defend and I'm sick of you.\n\n710\n00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:14.640\nAnd we all kind\n\n711\n00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:19.430\nof sat there like, Oh my God, how's this going to finish up? In the end, the\n\n712\n00:36:19.430 --> 00:36:20.080\nrest of the session,\n\n713\n00:36:20.080 --> 00:36:25.280\nguess what Robbie Keene did? He defended. And afterwards, they they made amends\n\n714\n00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:25.600\nand they were\n\n715\n00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:29.680\ngreat friends and they moved on by that was a massive moment where I was like,\n\n716\n00:36:29.680 --> 00:36:30.960\nwow, I mean,\n\n717\n00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.210\nhe showed a great so anyway, so accountability key, especially from the team\n\n718\n00:36:37.210 --> 00:36:37.920\nand the leaders.\n\n719\n00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.760\nIt's one thing from the coaches, but from the team, that's when teams can be\n\n720\n00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.160\ngreat.\n\n721\n00:36:43.200 --> 00:36:49.040\nThis ties into it, but that's what makes good culture too. Because in the end,\n\n722\n00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:53.830\nyes, we're all friends and we hang out, but we're there to win. We want to win.\n\n723\n00:36:53.830 --> 00:36:54.640\nThat is that is the\n\n724\n00:36:54.640 --> 00:37:01.440\ngoal. And we what we had that was great in my best teams was when the leaders\n\n725\n00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.360\ncare as much about\n\n726\n00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:09.680\nthe 26th or 27th guy on the team as they do the best guy, that's what makes\n\n727\n00:37:09.680 --> 00:37:10.720\nteams great.\n\n728\n00:37:10.720 --> 00:37:16.670\nAnother great story in 2014, my final MLS season, we had a player on the team\n\n729\n00:37:16.670 --> 00:37:17.920\nnamed Raoul Mendiola.\n\n730\n00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:23.360\nAnd he was if we had a roster of 30, he was probably the 28th or 29th guy on\n\n731\n00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:23.920\nthe roster.\n\n732\n00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.000\nHe might have played a few hundred minutes all season. I will never forget when\n\n733\n00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:28.800\nI watch back the\n\n734\n00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:33.590\nvideo of us winning the championship in 2014, the first guy sprinting on the\n\n735\n00:37:33.590 --> 00:37:34.560\nfield celebrating\n\n736\n00:37:34.560 --> 00:37:38.050\nwas Raoul Mendiola. And he played probably the fewest minutes of anybody on the\n\n737\n00:37:38.050 --> 00:37:38.480\nteam.\n\n738\n00:37:39.040 --> 00:37:42.200\nSo you knew the culture was right because he cared just as much as everyone\n\n739\n00:37:42.200 --> 00:37:42.640\nelse.\n\n740\n00:37:42.640 --> 00:37:50.080\nSo accountability, culture, well, great teams have to have great players too. I\n\n741\n00:37:50.080 --> 00:37:51.200\nmean, that is\n\n742\n00:37:51.200 --> 00:37:58.370\nthe reality. It's true. I mean, you can get by during a regular season, you\n\n743\n00:37:58.370 --> 00:37:58.960\nknow,\n\n744\n00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.450\npicking up some wins when you get to like the real stuff, you have to have\n\n745\n00:38:02.450 --> 00:38:03.600\ngreat players too.\n\n746\n00:38:03.600 --> 00:38:09.350\nThat is the reality. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, speaking of great\n\n747\n00:38:09.350 --> 00:38:09.680\nplayers,\n\n748\n00:38:09.680 --> 00:38:13.360\nand you mentioned a great team that you were on in the LA Galaxy and that great\n\n749\n00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:13.840\nleadership,\n\n750\n00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:21.360\nyou had a great culture there. After you signed with the Galaxy, as I\n\n751\n00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:22.000\nunderstand it,\n\n752\n00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:29.380\nDavid Beckham joined the team from Real Madrid. And you handed him the captain\n\n753\n00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:30.480\n's arm band,\n\n754\n00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.400\nyou know, take me through that decision. Why'd you do that? I mean, obviously,\n\n755\n00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:35.040\nBeckham was,\n\n756\n00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:40.880\nyou know, a global star, but you know, what was it that made you do that?\n\n757\n00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:47.280\nWell, you know how when you see coaches and an organization mutually part ways,\n\n758\n00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:52.080\nbut you know, the coach got fired. So I handed him the arm band, but I was kind\n\n759\n00:38:52.080 --> 00:38:52.560\nof pushed\n\n760\n00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:58.140\nthe arm band. So I'll tell you the story. So when he got there, about a week\n\n761\n00:38:58.140 --> 00:38:59.440\nafter he got there,\n\n762\n00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.500\nthe GM came to me and said, Hey, land. And I think it would really help the\n\n763\n00:39:03.500 --> 00:39:03.840\nteam\n\n764\n00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:11.060\nif David was the captain. I was like, okay, but he's been here a week. He doesn\n\n765\n00:39:11.060 --> 00:39:11.680\n't even know\n\n766\n00:39:11.680 --> 00:39:15.280\neveryone's a name. And he said, well, just think about it. So he came back a\n\n767\n00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:16.000\nfew days later and\n\n768\n00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.830\nhe said, you know, I think it'd be really great if David was the captain. I\n\n769\n00:39:18.830 --> 00:39:20.400\nsaid, okay,\n\n770\n00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:24.150\nsomething's going on here. A few days later, the coach called me in the office\n\n771\n00:39:24.150 --> 00:39:24.880\nand they said,\n\n772\n00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:28.800\nyou know, I think it would really help us all and help the team if David was\n\n773\n00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.760\nthe captain.\n\n774\n00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:35.340\nSo I remember talking to my agent for a long time. And I at that point, it puts\n\n775\n00:39:35.340 --> 00:39:35.920\nme in a really\n\n776\n00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:41.160\ntough situation, right? Because this is David Beckham. This is not a normal\n\n777\n00:39:41.160 --> 00:39:42.240\nsoccer player,\n\n778\n00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:47.030\nhim. This is at that point, he was probably a top five most famous person in\n\n779\n00:39:47.030 --> 00:39:47.520\nthe world.\n\n780\n00:39:48.400 --> 00:39:53.800\nHonestly, I mean, everybody knew his name across the globe. And so I was\n\n781\n00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:54.560\nthinking,\n\n782\n00:39:54.560 --> 00:39:58.160\nhow, what am I going to do here? Right? So if you hold on to it, now you're the\n\n783\n00:39:58.160 --> 00:39:59.360\njerk who is\n\n784\n00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:04.150\ncreating this tension in animosity, maybe it's never made public, but it's not\n\n785\n00:40:04.150 --> 00:40:05.200\ngoing to help.\n\n786\n00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:10.570\nOr you can say, look, and this is what I learned, you know, this is also\n\n787\n00:40:10.570 --> 00:40:10.960\nanother\n\n788\n00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.840\nleadership lesson. Whether you're wearing an arm band around your arm or not\n\n789\n00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:16.160\ndoesn't\n\n790\n00:40:16.160 --> 00:40:19.440\ndetermine if you're the captain. I mean, I played with a lot of guys who wore\n\n791\n00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.480\nthe arm band who were\n\n792\n00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:25.200\nnot the leader on the team. And that, you know, for whatever reason, they were\n\n793\n00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:25.600\ngiven the arm\n\n794\n00:40:25.600 --> 00:40:30.160\nband, but that did not make them the top leader on the team. And so in the end,\n\n795\n00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:30.720\nI said, look,\n\n796\n00:40:30.720 --> 00:40:36.090\nit is what it is. It's not going to change the way I play. It's not going to\n\n797\n00:40:36.090 --> 00:40:36.800\nchange the way I do\n\n798\n00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:41.780\nthings. If it makes David feel better, if it makes the club feel better, it's\n\n799\n00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:43.440\nfine. And so,\n\n800\n00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:49.850\nagain, I we didn't mutually part ways. I was fired, but I did. I did give him\n\n801\n00:40:49.850 --> 00:40:50.720\nthe arm band in the end.\n\n802\n00:40:50.720 --> 00:40:57.680\nAnd, you know, speaking of productive conflict, I've read where you, you felt\n\n803\n00:40:57.680 --> 00:41:02.470\nthat you didn't think Beckham was all in on the team. And it wasn't as\n\n804\n00:41:02.470 --> 00:41:03.840\ncommitted to the team as\n\n805\n00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:07.350\nyou were and other people were, you know, how do you, how do you deal with that\n\n806\n00:41:07.350 --> 00:41:08.160\n, as a leader?\n\n807\n00:41:08.160 --> 00:41:16.430\nWhat do you do? Not well. So I did feel that way. And the mistake I made was I\n\n808\n00:41:16.430 --> 00:41:17.440\naired it publicly.\n\n809\n00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:21.450\nAnd there was a gentleman named Grant Wall, who was writing a book about the\n\n810\n00:41:21.450 --> 00:41:22.640\nwhole process with\n\n811\n00:41:22.640 --> 00:41:28.700\nDavid. And I would speak to him often. And a couple times, I just sort of let\n\n812\n00:41:28.700 --> 00:41:30.880\nloose and said\n\n813\n00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.950\nthings I should not have said publicly about, you know, David, I didn't feel\n\n814\n00:41:34.950 --> 00:41:36.320\nlike he was caring\n\n815\n00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.700\nenough about the team. Like he had come here and he wasn't helping us get out\n\n816\n00:41:39.700 --> 00:41:41.360\nof a bad situation.\n\n817\n00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:46.150\nWe were really bad team at the time. And I made some bad comments. And this\n\n818\n00:41:46.150 --> 00:41:46.960\ntearily point about\n\n819\n00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:54.180\nconflict and confronting. So this book gets released. And the day it gets\n\n820\n00:41:54.180 --> 00:41:55.680\nreleased, of course,\n\n821\n00:41:55.680 --> 00:41:59.690\nthere are all these blurbs about, you know, land in Donovan says, David's a bad\n\n822\n00:41:59.690 --> 00:42:00.880\nteammate and a bad\n\n823\n00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:06.250\nleader and all these things. So you can imagine how awkward that is right for\n\n824\n00:42:06.250 --> 00:42:07.200\nall this. So the next\n\n825\n00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:12.310\nmorning or so that night, Bruce Arena, our coach texts us both and says, Hey,\n\n826\n00:42:12.310 --> 00:42:13.440\nguys, I want to meet\n\n827\n00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.320\nwith you guys in the morning when I'm like, Oh, shit, here we go. So in the\n\n828\n00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:19.920\nmorning, we walk into his\n\n829\n00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:25.670\noffice. And Bruce starts speaking to us for a few seconds. And I said, Bruce,\n\n830\n00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:26.800\nlet me stop you.\n\n831\n00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:34.920\nI said, David, I'm really sorry. Like me saying these things publicly was so un\n\n832\n00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:35.680\nprofessional.\n\n833\n00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:43.010\nAnd I feel the way I feel what I said, I do feel. But I should have just told\n\n834\n00:42:43.010 --> 00:42:43.760\nyou to your face.\n\n835\n00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:49.760\nAnd we could have gotten through it, I'm sure. And this, this told me\n\n836\n00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:50.800\neverything I needed to\n\n837\n00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:55.630\nknow and learn about David in that moment. He could have buried me, right? I'm\n\n838\n00:42:55.630 --> 00:42:57.600\na nobody in his world.\n\n839\n00:42:58.240 --> 00:43:04.190\nAnd he could have gone out publicly and absolutely just buried me. And in that\n\n840\n00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:04.880\nmoment, he said,\n\n841\n00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:10.000\nLandon, I get it. I understand this has been like a tough time for all of us in\n\n842\n00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.120\nfrustrating.\n\n843\n00:43:11.120 --> 00:43:15.040\nI didn't like that you said those things publicly. We can deal with that part.\n\n844\n00:43:15.040 --> 00:43:17.360\nIt's fine. But we both\n\n845\n00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:21.570\nwant the same thing. We both want to win. We both want to be successful. We're\n\n846\n00:43:21.570 --> 00:43:22.640\nboth frustrated by\n\n847\n00:43:22.640 --> 00:43:28.010\nwhat's going on here. So I'm fine. Like we will put this behind us and let's go\n\n848\n00:43:28.010 --> 00:43:28.960\nbe successful\n\n849\n00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:34.160\ntogether. And two of the next three years, we won the championship together.\n\n850\n00:43:34.160 --> 00:43:35.600\nAnd I just, I gained\n\n851\n00:43:35.600 --> 00:43:40.390\nso much respect for him that day. Fantastic. And, you know, I gained a lot of\n\n852\n00:43:40.390 --> 00:43:40.880\nrespect\n\n853\n00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:45.090\nfor you when you were talking about the when you didn't make the World Cup. And\n\n854\n00:43:45.090 --> 00:43:45.760\nyou had these three\n\n855\n00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:51.760\nplayers come in that did, they took the time to be compassionate and caring to\n\n856\n00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:53.280\nyou. And when you\n\n857\n00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:59.290\nsaid that meant more to you, then if you'd have been on the World Cup team as\n\n858\n00:43:59.290 --> 00:44:00.640\nyou look back at it,\n\n859\n00:44:00.640 --> 00:44:03.840\nbecause it's a memory that you'll always have and you learn so much from it.\n\n860\n00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:05.600\nAnd, you know,\n\n861\n00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:10.390\nbrings me this next question here. You know, a lot of people watching this have\n\n862\n00:44:10.390 --> 00:44:11.040\nsuccess or\n\n863\n00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:17.740\nextremely successful. And it's easy to get caught up with what you do, you know\n\n864\n00:44:17.740 --> 00:44:18.800\n, like I'm a world\n\n865\n00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:24.560\nclass football player, you know, etc, etc. But how do you define yourself today\n\n866\n00:44:24.560 --> 00:44:25.840\nas a person? I mean,\n\n867\n00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:30.630\nhow do you how do you define yourself? I always would get frustrated when\n\n868\n00:44:30.630 --> 00:44:31.280\npeople come up to me\n\n869\n00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:37.110\nand they look and they go, wait, you're that soccer player. And in my head, I'm\n\n870\n00:44:37.110 --> 00:44:38.000\nlike, no,\n\n871\n00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:42.980\nI'm not a soccer player. I'm landed, you know, like I'm me. But to them, that's\n\n872\n00:44:42.980 --> 00:44:43.760\nwhat I am. So,\n\n873\n00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:56.050\nwhat what I take pride in is that I have given most of my life and certainly my\n\n874\n00:44:56.050 --> 00:44:57.120\nadult life to\n\n875\n00:44:57.120 --> 00:45:03.370\nmaking this sport better in our country and growing the sport. And it's been a\n\n876\n00:45:03.370 --> 00:45:04.000\nhuge passion\n\n877\n00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.790\nof mine. There's almost no part of the sport I have not touched or been a part\n\n878\n00:45:08.790 --> 00:45:09.680\nof in some way.\n\n879\n00:45:09.680 --> 00:45:16.160\nBut the irony is, is that is not me or what to find. Now I don't, unless I'm\n\n880\n00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:16.960\nplaying with my\n\n881\n00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:21.040\nkids, I don't touch a soccer ball. I don't watch a ton of soccer. I do because\n\n882\n00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.920\nI have a podcast,\n\n883\n00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:25.870\nso I have to keep up on it and, you know, stay informed and all that. But it's\n\n884\n00:45:25.870 --> 00:45:26.480\nnot a massive\n\n885\n00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:35.080\npart of my life. Now my life is my kids, my wife, my family, golf, and actually\n\n886\n00:45:35.080 --> 00:45:36.800\nrelaxing and enjoying\n\n887\n00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:43.420\nnot having to do things. Now the one caveat to that is the next part and\n\n888\n00:45:43.420 --> 00:45:46.160\nprobably the rest of my life,\n\n889\n00:45:46.160 --> 00:45:54.480\nI will be dedicating to fixing youth soccer in this country because it's a real\n\n890\n00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:55.760\n, real mess. And\n\n891\n00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:00.880\nthat is the part I am most. I will have a bigger impact doing that than\n\n892\n00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:02.000\nanything I did on a field.\n\n893\n00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.280\nI have no question about that. And I'm going to come back to that in just a\n\n894\n00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.320\nminute, but I got to\n\n895\n00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:12.660\nask you my kid Lasso question. I understand you're an investor at a strategic\n\n896\n00:46:12.660 --> 00:46:14.160\nadvisor at the Lincoln\n\n897\n00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:18.950\nCity Football Club in England. And you just got promoted for the first time\n\n898\n00:46:18.950 --> 00:46:22.240\nsince 1961. And\n\n899\n00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:28.240\nyou have a small budget and a lot of the other teams. What's the lesson for any\n\n900\n00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:29.600\nleader who's\n\n901\n00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:33.520\ntrying to win without having the biggest checkbook? You know, because last\n\n902\n00:46:33.520 --> 00:46:34.400\nthough was kind of dealing\n\n903\n00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:41.260\nwith that same issue. What Lincoln City has done well, they spent the 17th most\n\n904\n00:46:41.260 --> 00:46:42.800\nout of 24 teams\n\n905\n00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:49.840\nand finished first by over 10 points over the second place team. They're 10%\n\n906\n00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:50.320\nbetter than the\n\n907\n00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:55.110\nsecond place team. They had 100 points, which is if you have 100 points in any\n\n908\n00:46:55.110 --> 00:46:55.840\nsoccer season,\n\n909\n00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:01.030\nit's almost a miracle. And they spent 17th most out of 24 teams. So 16 teams\n\n910\n00:47:01.030 --> 00:47:02.560\nspent more than they did.\n\n911\n00:47:02.560 --> 00:47:06.640\nAnd in some cases, significantly more. What Lincoln City has done well,\n\n912\n00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:12.720\nand this is, I've learned so much about this from Nate Miller, who I talked to\n\n913\n00:47:12.720 --> 00:47:13.760\nyou about before,\n\n914\n00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:20.880\nis continuity. Majority of the roster together for multiple years now. In that\n\n915\n00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:21.920\nleague in particular,\n\n916\n00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:27.320\nand now in many leagues and many sports, players are moving all the time. They\n\n917\n00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:28.240\nsign for two years\n\n918\n00:47:28.240 --> 00:47:32.260\nhere, and then they go there, free agency there, they get traded here. It's\n\n919\n00:47:32.260 --> 00:47:33.280\nbecoming more and more\n\n920\n00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.950\nrare that players stay in one place for a long time. So Lincoln City over the\n\n921\n00:47:36.950 --> 00:47:37.760\nlast two or three\n\n922\n00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:44.190\nyears has kept the same core group of players, same coach, the same technical\n\n923\n00:47:44.190 --> 00:47:45.760\ndirector, the same\n\n924\n00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:55.810\nCEO, the same chairman, and had that there is very clear expectations. Nobody\n\n925\n00:47:55.810 --> 00:47:57.200\nwas expecting\n\n926\n00:47:57.200 --> 00:48:02.860\nto win the league or to get promoted, but the expectations that are not goal\n\n927\n00:48:02.860 --> 00:48:04.000\noriented are very\n\n928\n00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:07.810\nclear, and everyone understands it. And that continuity has been their\n\n929\n00:48:07.810 --> 00:48:08.880\nsuperpower this year.\n\n930\n00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:13.080\nWell, you know, it's in my study of great companies, they have continuity\n\n931\n00:48:13.080 --> 00:48:14.800\naround people and process,\n\n932\n00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:18.640\nthat always leads to the great results. And it landed and it's been so much fun\n\n933\n00:48:18.640 --> 00:48:18.720\n.\n\n934\n00:48:18.720 --> 00:48:21.500\nI want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready\n\n935\n00:48:21.500 --> 00:48:22.080\nfor this?\n\n936\n00:48:22.080 --> 00:48:27.440\nThe three words to best describe you. Compassionate, generous,\n\n937\n00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.560\nintense. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n938\n00:48:34.560 --> 00:48:37.840\nOkay, how about the chairman of Augusta? Because then I can play Augusta.\n\n939\n00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:45.630\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve? My favorite, probably my favorite quote that I\n\n940\n00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:46.160\nlive by is\n\n941\n00:48:46.160 --> 00:48:50.950\nhow you do anything is how you do everything. And people who do things without\n\n942\n00:48:50.950 --> 00:48:52.320\ncaring or paying\n\n943\n00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:56.800\nattention or attention to detail drive me crazy. Who would play you in a movie?\n\n944\n00:48:57.520 --> 00:49:05.680\nMatthew McConaughey. The the sexiest man alive, man. You know, there you go.\n\n945\n00:49:05.680 --> 00:49:11.680\nThe best part of being a twin that she could care less about landing the soccer\n\n946\n00:49:11.680 --> 00:49:12.080\nplayer,\n\n947\n00:49:12.080 --> 00:49:17.280\nand she keeps me honest and humble. Your best foreign language.\n\n948\n00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:24.320\nSpanish. I speak some German too, but Spanish. Okay, Messi just won his first\n\n949\n00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:25.200\nMLS cup,\n\n950\n00:49:25.200 --> 00:49:30.240\nU-16. How's it feel that you know that you've got a leg up on Messi?\n\n951\n00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:36.640\nWell, I just think I'm a much better player than he is. If your life depended\n\n952\n00:49:36.640 --> 00:49:38.000\non the goal,\n\n953\n00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.950\nwho from the current players that pulled that you watched, would you want to\n\n954\n00:49:43.950 --> 00:49:45.360\ntake the penalty shot?\n\n955\n00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:50.150\nChristian Pulisic, no question. What's something you've been curious about\n\n956\n00:49:50.150 --> 00:49:51.440\nlately that has nothing to\n\n957\n00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:59.040\ndo with work or anything that is related to the business side of your life?\n\n958\n00:49:59.040 --> 00:50:05.360\nNew obscure music that I wasn't aware of earlier, or even like old songs or\n\n959\n00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:06.080\nthings that I didn't\n\n960\n00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:11.660\nknow about. What's the one thing you do just for you? Golf. Besides your family\n\n961\n00:50:11.660 --> 00:50:12.320\nand friends,\n\n962\n00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:17.900\nwhat's your most prized possession? Well, it's it would be things that were my\n\n963\n00:50:17.900 --> 00:50:18.480\nfather's.\n\n964\n00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:23.840\nThat's family, I know, but if I turned on the ready, if I turned on the ready\n\n965\n00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:24.800\nin your car,\n\n966\n00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.640\nwhat would I hear? Well, you might have heard a podcast, you might have heard\n\n967\n00:50:28.640 --> 00:50:29.840\nthe Howard Stern show,\n\n968\n00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:35.120\nor I think there was a Bruno Mars song last night when we went to dinner on.\n\n969\n00:50:35.120 --> 00:50:40.490\nWhat's something about you that few people would know that I played the violin\n\n970\n00:50:40.490 --> 00:50:41.120\nwhen I was young?\n\n971\n00:50:41.120 --> 00:50:45.520\nWhat's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss?\n\n972\n00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:53.040\nFlossing my teeth. I'm done. We're out of the life, you're out. I love it. Now\n\n973\n00:50:53.040 --> 00:50:53.920\nyou and your\n\n974\n00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:57.670\nwife, Hannah, have three kids. How do you think about leading at home, Brandon?\n\n975\n00:50:57.670 --> 00:50:59.520\nThe word that I try\n\n976\n00:50:59.520 --> 00:51:06.400\nto live by is intentionality. I think with kids, it's very easy to get. You\n\n977\n00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.640\njust get into a process\n\n978\n00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:13.430\nand a rut and you just you're just trying to solve problems all day. And I'm\n\n979\n00:51:13.430 --> 00:51:14.240\ntrying to be,\n\n980\n00:51:14.240 --> 00:51:17.840\nI'm not great at this yet, but I'm trying to be intentional with what I say,\n\n981\n00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:18.640\nwhat I do, how\n\n982\n00:51:18.640 --> 00:51:23.630\nI treat them all the time. But it's very difficult. As a dad, you were talking\n\n983\n00:51:23.630 --> 00:51:24.560\nearlier about just\n\n984\n00:51:24.560 --> 00:51:30.510\nyouth sports and that soccer in particular is really messed up. What is it that\n\n985\n00:51:30.510 --> 00:51:31.200\n's messed up?\n\n986\n00:51:31.200 --> 00:51:35.050\nAnd then if you're going to change the world, what are you going to do to make\n\n987\n00:51:35.050 --> 00:51:35.840\nit better?\n\n988\n00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:39.520\nYeah, there are a lot of pieces, but I'll try to be brief with it.\n\n989\n00:51:40.640 --> 00:51:46.010\nThe culture around youth sports is really toxic. So if you go to a youth soccer\n\n990\n00:51:46.010 --> 00:51:46.160\ngame,\n\n991\n00:51:46.160 --> 00:51:55.440\nthe amount of talking, yelling, berating, coaching, going on on the sidelines\n\n992\n00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:58.080\nis destroying our kids\n\n993\n00:51:58.080 --> 00:52:04.030\nexperience, right? I see so many kids that are so anxious to do the wrong thing\n\n994\n00:52:04.030 --> 00:52:04.880\nbecause the coach\n\n995\n00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:09.860\nor the parent is yelling at them throughout the game that it drives me crazy.\n\n996\n00:52:09.860 --> 00:52:10.720\nSo that's one. So\n\n997\n00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:15.710\nthat culture, that that culture of lack of awareness for a parent to just shut\n\n998\n00:52:15.710 --> 00:52:16.160\nup on the\n\n999\n00:52:16.160 --> 00:52:24.150\nsideline and like just let their kid play is alarming to me. So that's one to\n\n1000\n00:52:24.150 --> 00:52:26.560\nthe the landscape\n\n1001\n00:52:26.560 --> 00:52:29.760\nand youth soccer, I can't speak for all sports, but the landscape and youth\n\n1002\n00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:30.720\nsoccer has been built\n\n1003\n00:52:30.720 --> 00:52:38.470\naround success means winning and for the clubs making money. That is what\n\n1004\n00:52:38.470 --> 00:52:39.840\nsuccess is for the clubs.\n\n1005\n00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:46.090\nThat does not help kids love soccer more. And that does not help kids develop\n\n1006\n00:52:46.090 --> 00:52:47.040\ninto better soccer\n\n1007\n00:52:47.040 --> 00:52:51.300\nplayers. Those two, those two can't, those two can't happen together. If all\n\n1008\n00:52:51.300 --> 00:52:52.800\nyou're cared about is\n\n1009\n00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:56.640\nwinning, give you an example. I was watching a game the other day. These are\n\n1010\n00:52:56.640 --> 00:52:57.760\nsix year old girls.\n\n1011\n00:52:58.640 --> 00:53:02.880\nFrom the kickoff, the other team scores a goal. So we get the kickoff, right?\n\n1012\n00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:03.840\nFrom the kickoff,\n\n1013\n00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:09.320\nthey're having one of our players run up and try to kick it and shoot and score\n\n1014\n00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:09.920\non the goal.\n\n1015\n00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:15.500\nWhat is that teaching a kid about soccer? Nothing. Do you just trying to kick\n\n1016\n00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:16.400\nit as hard as you can?\n\n1017\n00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.610\nHow does that make you a better? Because they're trying to score a goal off the\n\n1018\n00:53:20.610 --> 00:53:21.680\nkickoff. It just\n\n1019\n00:53:21.680 --> 00:53:24.880\nkind of blew my mind. That doesn't help you become a better soccer player,\n\n1020\n00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:27.680\nright? So they're that\n\n1021\n00:53:27.680 --> 00:53:31.600\nincentive structure has to change where the clubs are incentivized by\n\n1022\n00:53:31.600 --> 00:53:33.120\ndeveloping the players and\n\n1023\n00:53:33.120 --> 00:53:38.160\nhaving the kids love soccer. And once you flip the incentive structure, how do\n\n1024\n00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:39.360\nyou reward clubs for\n\n1025\n00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:43.310\ndoing that? Well, versus rewarding clubs for winning soccer games when these\n\n1026\n00:53:43.310 --> 00:53:44.000\nkids are seven\n\n1027\n00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.980\nyears old. That means nothing in the grant. I can't tell you one soccer game I\n\n1028\n00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:50.000\nwon as a youth player,\n\n1029\n00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:55.000\nDavid. Not one. Not one. It doesn't matter. You had good coaches, I'm sure,\n\n1030\n00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:56.640\nright? You remember that.\n\n1031\n00:53:56.640 --> 00:54:00.130\nNot, you know, whatever. But even if I didn't, I don't remember any of these\n\n1032\n00:54:00.130 --> 00:54:00.480\ngames.\n\n1033\n00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.480\nAnd I made it to the very top, right? I don't remember the score of any game.\n\n1034\n00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:10.880\nGood luck in bringing some sense to this. I'm going to need to know that I\n\n1035\n00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:11.600\nthink that would be\n\n1036\n00:54:11.600 --> 00:54:16.320\ngreat. Last question, your land. What's one piece of advice you'd give to\n\n1037\n00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:16.960\nanyone who wants to be a\n\n1038\n00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:21.750\nbetter leader? You can learn a lot from other people. In the end, to me, the\n\n1039\n00:54:21.750 --> 00:54:22.400\nnumber one quality\n\n1040\n00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:28.650\nof a great leader is authenticity. There are so many ways to lead. I saw it\n\n1041\n00:54:28.650 --> 00:54:29.280\nthrough coaches my\n\n1042\n00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:34.650\nwhole career. Many different ways, different strategies, different approaches.\n\n1043\n00:54:34.650 --> 00:54:35.440\nBut as long as\n\n1044\n00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:40.090\nthey were authentic to themselves, that would come through to the group. And\n\n1045\n00:54:40.090 --> 00:54:41.280\nyou can be successful.\n\n1046\n00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:48.260\nWell, thank you much, Landon, for this great, great conversation. I love the\n\n1047\n00:54:48.260 --> 00:54:49.040\ninsights that you\n\n1048\n00:54:49.040 --> 00:54:53.920\nhave and the way how you lead. And, you know, I look forward to teeing it up\n\n1049\n00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:54.880\nwith you some\n\n1050\n00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:58.000\nspecial one of these days. Thanks for having me, David.\n\n1051\n00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:07.280\nDavid, I am fired up about the World Cup.\n\n1052\n00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:13.920\nYou're fired up about everything. Cool. But I am too. I think it's great. I\n\n1053\n00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:14.640\nactually went to the\n\n1054\n00:55:14.640 --> 00:55:21.120\nWorld Cup when it was held in Italy and saw the semi-final match in Naples and\n\n1055\n00:55:21.120 --> 00:55:21.680\nthen the final\n\n1056\n00:55:21.680 --> 00:55:27.260\nmatch in Rome and was lucky enough, believe it or not, on Saturday night as the\n\n1057\n00:55:27.260 --> 00:55:28.320\naftermath,\n\n1058\n00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:37.520\nto see the first three tenors concert in Rome. And it was just amazing. But the\n\n1059\n00:55:37.520 --> 00:55:38.240\nwhole experience\n\n1060\n00:55:38.240 --> 00:55:45.760\nwas great. People just absolutely go bonkers over football and the enthusiasm\n\n1061\n00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:46.880\nand the crowds and\n\n1062\n00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:51.640\nthe spirit was just incredible seeing. And I'm really looking forward to this\n\n1063\n00:55:51.640 --> 00:55:52.560\nyear's World Cup as well.\n\n1064\n00:55:52.560 --> 00:55:56.400\nI am too. It really feels like one of those moments where the entire world\n\n1065\n00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:57.200\nrallies together\n\n1066\n00:55:57.200 --> 00:56:00.690\naround one thing. I mean, obviously, everyone's cheering for their team, but it\n\n1067\n00:56:00.690 --> 00:56:01.600\n's similar to the\n\n1068\n00:56:01.600 --> 00:56:05.800\nOlympics in that it just brings like the heart of the human spirit together in\n\n1069\n00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:06.720\na way that's so\n\n1070\n00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:11.670\nheartwarming. So even if you're not a soccer fan, I hope you two are excited to\n\n1071\n00:56:11.670 --> 00:56:11.920\nsee\n\n1072\n00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:17.680\nwhat plays out in this year's World Cup. And we have an excellent guest to kick\n\n1073\n00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:18.000\nit off\n\n1074\n00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:24.860\nwith Landon Donovan. Yeah. And you're so right. You know, I mean, football or\n\n1075\n00:56:24.860 --> 00:56:26.800\nsoccer is global,\n\n1076\n00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:34.960\njust like the Olympics. And those two events are really what brings the world\n\n1077\n00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:35.520\ntogether.\n\n1078\n00:56:35.520 --> 00:56:42.850\nAnd you're right. We have fantastic guests in Landon Donovan, you know, one of\n\n1079\n00:56:42.850 --> 00:56:43.680\nthe most renowned,\n\n1080\n00:56:43.680 --> 00:56:49.680\nperhaps the renowned football player for the United States in the World Cup.\n\n1081\n00:56:49.680 --> 00:56:53.880\nWell, I'm excited, David, to debrief this conversation that you had with Landon\n\n1082\n00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:54.240\n. Before\n\n1083\n00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:59.080\nwe do though, I just have to shout out Landon Donovan saying that he's simply a\n\n1084\n00:56:59.080 --> 00:56:59.760\nbetter soccer\n\n1085\n00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:04.550\nplayer than Messi. I thought that was so epic. He's still so confident and his\n\n1086\n00:57:04.550 --> 00:57:05.680\nelite ability to\n\n1087\n00:57:05.680 --> 00:57:09.230\njust manhandle people on the soccer field. So shout out Landon Donovan for\n\n1088\n00:57:09.230 --> 00:57:10.800\nfreaking owning that.\n\n1089\n00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:15.760\nI really love that part. Well, he obviously doesn't lack for confidence.\n\n1090\n00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:21.360\nWell, David, this first theme that I want to chat with you about is this idea\n\n1091\n00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:22.640\nthat you are not\n\n1092\n00:57:22.640 --> 00:57:27.200\nyour job. A huge point of growth for Landon was learning to separate who he is\n\n1093\n00:57:27.200 --> 00:57:28.560\nas a soccer player\n\n1094\n00:57:28.560 --> 00:57:32.800\nfrom who he is as a person. He talks about getting really depressed when he\n\n1095\n00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:33.840\nstarted playing badly.\n\n1096\n00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:37.840\nAnd then he gets cut from the World Cup team and spirals into this deep\n\n1097\n00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:38.800\ndepression because he\n\n1098\n00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:43.810\ncouldn't separate those two who he was on the soccer field and who he was as a\n\n1099\n00:57:43.810 --> 00:57:44.960\nhuman being.\n\n1100\n00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:49.160\nAnd I imagine that for a lot of leaders listening, that could be hard to do.\n\n1101\n00:57:49.160 --> 00:57:50.320\nWhat's your experience\n\n1102\n00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:55.040\nwith this? I mean, how do you separate who you are from what you do? Well, I've\n\n1103\n00:57:55.040 --> 00:57:55.520\nseen so many\n\n1104\n00:57:55.520 --> 00:58:01.470\npeople retire from their jobs and just waste away because they don't really\n\n1105\n00:58:01.470 --> 00:58:02.080\nhave a bigger\n\n1106\n00:58:02.080 --> 00:58:10.480\ndefinition for what their life is all about. And to me, that's why you have to\n\n1107\n00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:10.960\nhave your\n\n1108\n00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:14.800\nwhy. That's why you have to have your purpose. That's why you have something\n\n1109\n00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:15.360\nyou have to know\n\n1110\n00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:19.640\nwhy you are really put on this world and the difference that you can truly make\n\n1111\n00:58:19.640 --> 00:58:20.000\n.\n\n1112\n00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:28.720\nAnd I think Landon learned that when he didn't make the World Cup team and he\n\n1113\n00:58:28.720 --> 00:58:29.600\nspiraled and he\n\n1114\n00:58:29.600 --> 00:58:36.100\nhad to realize that he was much more than just a football player. And for me, I\n\n1115\n00:58:36.100 --> 00:58:37.840\nwas fortunate\n\n1116\n00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:45.170\nto listen to this leader, Jamie Winship, who's an expert on the importance of\n\n1117\n00:58:45.170 --> 00:58:46.560\nbuilding personal\n\n1118\n00:58:46.560 --> 00:58:53.200\nidentity. And as I listened to him, and he listened to me, he came up to me and\n\n1119\n00:58:53.200 --> 00:58:53.360\nsaid,\n\n1120\n00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:59.610\n\"Well, I hope you know what your identity is.\" And I said, \"Well, yeah, it is\n\n1121\n00:58:59.610 --> 00:59:00.240\ndefinitely way\n\n1122\n00:59:00.240 --> 00:59:06.560\nbeyond just being a former CEO and way beyond just being a podcast host and\n\n1123\n00:59:06.560 --> 00:59:07.680\nsomeone who focuses\n\n1124\n00:59:07.680 --> 00:59:11.500\non leadership.\" And he said, \"Well, what is it?\" And I said, \"Well, I think I\n\n1125\n00:59:11.500 --> 00:59:11.920\n've always\n\n1126\n00:59:12.720 --> 00:59:20.990\nfocused on lifting people up, really doing everything I can to recognize people\n\n1127\n00:59:20.990 --> 00:59:21.120\nfor\n\n1128\n00:59:21.120 --> 00:59:27.840\ntheir worth, appreciate them for what they've done, and acknowledge them for\n\n1129\n00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:28.720\nbeing the person\n\n1130\n00:59:28.720 --> 00:59:34.480\nthat they are. My family foundation is called Lift the Life Foundation. That's\n\n1131\n00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:35.680\nkind of how I\n\n1132\n00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:40.470\nsee my identity as someone that makes people feel better about themselves and\n\n1133\n00:59:40.470 --> 00:59:41.120\nhelp them\n\n1134\n00:59:41.680 --> 00:59:46.880\nget better at what they do. It's one of the reasons why I do this podcast. Now,\n\n1135\n00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:47.680\nat the same time,\n\n1136\n00:59:47.680 --> 00:59:53.050\nI think it's really important for you to really have an authenticity that you\n\n1137\n00:59:53.050 --> 00:59:54.000\nbring to work every\n\n1138\n00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:59.950\nday, because people only trust you if you are who you are. And my leadership\n\n1139\n00:59:59.950 --> 01:00:00.880\nprogram, I always\n\n1140\n01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:04.880\nsaid, \"You've got to be like Popeye. I am who I am on Popeye as a sailor man.\"\n\n1141\n01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:08.160\nAnd he knew who he was.\n\n1142\n01:00:08.160 --> 01:00:14.110\nAnd I think we all have to really look towards that and then bring that to work\n\n1143\n01:00:14.110 --> 01:00:14.880\n, because you can't\n\n1144\n01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:20.550\nbe anybody other than who you are. And when you try to be somebody that you're\n\n1145\n01:00:20.550 --> 01:00:21.920\nnot, people see it,\n\n1146\n01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:25.870\nyou're a phony, people don't trust you, people won't believe in you. So you\n\n1147\n01:00:25.870 --> 01:00:26.880\nreally got to be\n\n1148\n01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:31.890\nwho you are. And the way how you figure that out is you got to have high self-\n\n1149\n01:00:31.890 --> 01:00:32.880\nawareness.\n\n1150\n01:00:34.080 --> 01:00:38.400\nFirst of all, you got to think about all the things that people, you know,\n\n1151\n01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:44.800\ncommend you on, talk to you about that really makes you you. And then you also\n\n1152\n01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:45.680\nneed to understand\n\n1153\n01:00:45.680 --> 01:00:50.490\nhow other people see you by directly going to them and ask them how they see\n\n1154\n01:00:50.490 --> 01:00:52.560\nyou. But I think if you,\n\n1155\n01:00:52.560 --> 01:00:57.710\nwhen you're coming up in your career, you just kind of keep building your data\n\n1156\n01:00:57.710 --> 01:00:58.240\npoints\n\n1157\n01:00:58.240 --> 01:01:03.030\nthat will ultimately emerge, that you'll get so comfortable in being who you\n\n1158\n01:01:03.030 --> 01:01:03.440\nare, that you're\n\n1159\n01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:07.040\ncomfortable in your skin. And that's what I think people really find to be\n\n1160\n01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:08.240\ninspiring.\n\n1161\n01:01:08.240 --> 01:01:14.800\nIt takes some people a lot longer than others. But you got to realize that you\n\n1162\n01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:15.520\ngot to have that\n\n1163\n01:01:15.520 --> 01:01:19.290\nauthenticity to be the kind of leader that you really need to be. And you got\n\n1164\n01:01:19.290 --> 01:01:20.400\nto be who you are\n\n1165\n01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:27.000\nand nobody else. Yeah. And David, it's so evident in the great leaders like\n\n1166\n01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:27.920\nLanden,\n\n1167\n01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:32.170\ndoing that exercise of figuring out your authentic leadership style is not just\n\n1168\n01:01:32.170 --> 01:01:33.280\nfor yourself and\n\n1169\n01:01:33.280 --> 01:01:37.360\nit's not just to increase your own self-awareness. It actually does much more\n\n1170\n01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:38.400\nin serving the people\n\n1171\n01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.610\nthat you lead. I mean, Landen talks about how when he became captain one time,\n\n1172\n01:01:42.610 --> 01:01:44.000\nhe tried to be a\n\n1173\n01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:48.320\nleader and just told everybody what to do. And that wasn't authentic to him.\n\n1174\n01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:49.600\nAnd so as a result,\n\n1175\n01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:53.110\nhis performance suffered and his team's performance suffered. And it wasn't\n\n1176\n01:01:53.110 --> 01:01:55.120\nuntil he resentered on\n\n1177\n01:01:55.120 --> 01:01:59.050\nwhat type of leader he really was, which is being an elite soccer player and\n\n1178\n01:01:59.050 --> 01:02:00.320\nleading by the way he\n\n1179\n01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:05.110\nplayed that things really started to click for their team. So it hinders your\n\n1180\n01:02:05.110 --> 01:02:05.440\nability not only\n\n1181\n01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:08.930\nto know yourself, but to actually engage with others in a meaningful way when\n\n1182\n01:02:08.930 --> 01:02:09.920\nyou don't know\n\n1183\n01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:16.240\nwhat that authentic style is. Yeah, I think his identity is basically to\n\n1184\n01:02:16.240 --> 01:02:17.760\nperform through action,\n\n1185\n01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:25.550\nyou know, and to serve others by what you do, not by what you say. And that\n\n1186\n01:02:25.550 --> 01:02:27.360\ntravels. That travels\n\n1187\n01:02:27.360 --> 01:02:32.560\nway beyond being a football player. And you know, my good friend, Tim Schur,\n\n1188\n01:02:32.560 --> 01:02:34.320\nwho leads this podcast\n\n1189\n01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:39.110\nfor us, you know, he wrote a book called The Secret Society's Success and how\n\n1190\n01:02:39.110 --> 01:02:39.840\nthere were so many\n\n1191\n01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:46.090\nsuccessful people who were other directed and focused on other people. And that\n\n1192\n01:02:46.090 --> 01:02:46.880\nled to true\n\n1193\n01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:53.130\nhappiness and led to true meaning in their lives. And I think that's what Land\n\n1194\n01:02:53.130 --> 01:02:54.640\nen's done. And that's\n\n1195\n01:02:54.640 --> 01:02:58.710\nwhere he's at right now. And that's why he wants to improve, you know, little\n\n1196\n01:02:58.710 --> 01:03:00.160\nleague soccer,\n\n1197\n01:03:00.160 --> 01:03:04.950\nyouth soccer, he wants to make a difference. And you know, I love that. And he\n\n1198\n01:03:04.950 --> 01:03:06.000\n's gonna do that by\n\n1199\n01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:09.860\nwhat he does, not by what he says. Another thing that came up a lot in this\n\n1200\n01:03:09.860 --> 01:03:11.200\nconversation, David,\n\n1201\n01:03:11.200 --> 01:03:15.410\nis this idea of continuity. And both you and Landen talk about the importance\n\n1202\n01:03:15.410 --> 01:03:16.800\nof continuity and\n\n1203\n01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:20.550\nbuilding culture and achieving success as a team. What are some things that\n\n1204\n01:03:20.550 --> 01:03:21.920\nleaders can do to bring\n\n1205\n01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:25.220\nmore continuity to their business? I mean, how do you go about establishing\n\n1206\n01:03:25.220 --> 01:03:25.600\nthat?\n\n1207\n01:03:25.600 --> 01:03:29.810\nWell, let me tell you, continuity is really important to the success of any\n\n1208\n01:03:29.810 --> 01:03:30.320\nbusiness. When\n\n1209\n01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:35.110\nI studied the best companies in the world, all the best companies in the world,\n\n1210\n01:03:35.110 --> 01:03:36.240\nbut have continuity\n\n1211\n01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:41.030\nin both people in process, they have continuity in people. People stay in that\n\n1212\n01:03:41.030 --> 01:03:42.080\ncompany for a long\n\n1213\n01:03:42.080 --> 01:03:45.870\ntime because they want to be there. They want to contribute to it. They feel\n\n1214\n01:03:45.870 --> 01:03:46.720\nlike they can\n\n1215\n01:03:46.720 --> 01:03:50.210\nreally make a difference in their value. And that leads to continuity that's\n\n1216\n01:03:50.210 --> 01:03:51.440\nreally important.\n\n1217\n01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:56.230\nYou know, Landen talks about, you know, Lincoln City Football Club, which he's\n\n1218\n01:03:56.230 --> 01:03:57.200\na part owner in,\n\n1219\n01:03:57.200 --> 01:04:03.600\nthey spent the 17th most of any team in the league, but they finished first.\n\n1220\n01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:05.520\nAnd the reason why he\n\n1221\n01:04:05.520 --> 01:04:09.150\nsaid they did is they had a core group of players and coaches that had been\n\n1222\n01:04:09.150 --> 01:04:10.400\ntogether for a long\n\n1223\n01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:15.190\nperiod of time. And that continuity pays off. So continuity in people is really\n\n1224\n01:04:15.190 --> 01:04:16.080\nimportant.\n\n1225\n01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:19.480\nThe other thing is when you have continuity in people, you usually have\n\n1226\n01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:20.720\ncontinuity in process.\n\n1227\n01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:26.070\nBecause those people have been around for a while, then that means they have\n\n1228\n01:04:26.070 --> 01:04:26.160\nprocesses\n\n1229\n01:04:26.160 --> 01:04:30.950\nthat they know work and they continually improve those processes instead of\n\n1230\n01:04:30.950 --> 01:04:31.600\nstarting from scratch\n\n1231\n01:04:31.600 --> 01:04:36.390\neach year, developing a new process. I remember being a part of PepsiCo, we had\n\n1232\n01:04:36.390 --> 01:04:36.560\nso many\n\n1233\n01:04:36.560 --> 01:04:42.640\nmanagement changes at our divisions. Every time someone knew when in, they\n\n1234\n01:04:42.640 --> 01:04:43.600\ndeveloped their new\n\n1235\n01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:48.390\nprocesses. And so people had to stop doing what they were doing last year and\n\n1236\n01:04:48.390 --> 01:04:49.120\nadopt the new\n\n1237\n01:04:49.120 --> 01:04:54.700\nprocesses that were being implemented. And that stop and start and stop and\n\n1238\n01:04:54.700 --> 01:04:55.200\nstart,\n\n1239\n01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:59.040\nthat slows you down. But when you can really identify what's really important\n\n1240\n01:04:59.040 --> 01:04:59.760\nin your business\n\n1241\n01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:06.560\nand continually, you know, have continuity in executing those same processes\n\n1242\n01:05:06.560 --> 01:05:07.520\nand getting better\n\n1243\n01:05:07.520 --> 01:05:13.180\nand better, you have what becomes the compound effect. The compound effect of\n\n1244\n01:05:13.180 --> 01:05:14.160\njust getting better\n\n1245\n01:05:14.160 --> 01:05:17.180\nand better at what you do every single day. And then in sooner or later, you\n\n1246\n01:05:17.180 --> 01:05:17.920\nwake up and you go,\n\n1247\n01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:22.400\nholy cow, look how much better we are. I love that David continuity and people\n\n1248\n01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:25.920\nand process it so simple, yet, you know, a lot of people just don't get it\n\n1249\n01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:26.560\nright.\n\n1250\n01:05:26.560 --> 01:05:29.680\nYeah. And it's why the coaches that have been around for a long time do so well\n\n1251\n01:05:29.680 --> 01:05:29.680\n.\n\n1252\n01:05:29.680 --> 01:05:34.400\nRight. You know, people know what they expect. People know what the processes\n\n1253\n01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:34.560\nare and their\n\n1254\n01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:38.230\nplayers just keep getting better, better at executing the place that they know\n\n1255\n01:05:38.230 --> 01:05:38.640\nwork.\n\n1256\n01:05:38.640 --> 01:05:41.480\nI mean, it reminds me of the theme that you always say, Dynasty like\n\n1257\n01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:42.720\nperformance. You can't get\n\n1258\n01:05:42.720 --> 01:05:48.400\nthere without that continuity. Yeah. Well, read about Nick Saban. You know,\n\n1259\n01:05:48.400 --> 01:05:55.200\nI'd love to get on the podcast someday, you know, I know you love Nick Saban.\n\n1260\n01:05:55.200 --> 01:06:00.320\nHe's the king of, he's the king of process. And his processes didn't change.\n\n1261\n01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:01.280\nYou know,\n\n1262\n01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:06.000\nthey got better. He evolved them. Okay. But the core process has never changed.\n\n1263\n01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:09.120\nAnd he's the greatest college football coach of all time.\n\n1264\n01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:13.760\nYes, he absolutely is. Thank you for that shout out. I feel very sane.\n\n1265\n01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:18.880\nDavid, the last theme that I want to break down with you from this discussion\n\n1266\n01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:19.040\nwith\n\n1267\n01:06:19.040 --> 01:06:23.760\nLando Donovan is his idea of conflict. And you two talk about, I mean, just\n\n1268\n01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:23.760\nfrankly,\n\n1269\n01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:28.550\nleaders cannot avoid conflict. And when they do avoid conflict, bad things\n\n1270\n01:06:28.550 --> 01:06:29.280\nhappen.\n\n1271\n01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:32.770\nOne of my favorite stories that Lando tells in the episode is about when he\n\n1272\n01:06:32.770 --> 01:06:33.440\nreally learned\n\n1273\n01:06:33.440 --> 01:06:38.230\nhow to deal with conflict. When David Beckham joined his team, talk about what\n\n1274\n01:06:38.230 --> 01:06:39.200\nstood out to you\n\n1275\n01:06:39.200 --> 01:06:43.920\nfrom that story. Yeah, well, you know, what, what Lando talks about\n\n1276\n01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:49.500\nis the fact that, you know, he, he talked to the media and he said all these\n\n1277\n01:06:49.500 --> 01:06:50.400\nthings about David\n\n1278\n01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:54.640\nBeckham that basically said that he wasn't really wasn't a great teammate. And,\n\n1279\n01:06:54.640 --> 01:06:55.440\nand basically,\n\n1280\n01:06:55.440 --> 01:07:03.580\nDavid Beckham reads that. And, and here's it from the media, not from, from\n\n1281\n01:07:03.580 --> 01:07:04.880\nLando. And I think,\n\n1282\n01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:09.440\nthey get together and they have a meeting and the coach brings them together\n\n1283\n01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:09.600\nand\n\n1284\n01:07:09.600 --> 01:07:14.390\nLando realizes that he should have told them what he really thought into his\n\n1285\n01:07:14.390 --> 01:07:14.720\nface.\n\n1286\n01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:21.440\nAnd, you know, David Beckham basically forgave them and they realized they had\n\n1287\n01:07:21.440 --> 01:07:22.400\nmore in common\n\n1288\n01:07:22.400 --> 01:07:26.400\nthan, than, than not. And then they go on to win a couple of championships\n\n1289\n01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:27.040\ntogether.\n\n1290\n01:07:27.040 --> 01:07:31.840\nBut that conflict happened in the wrong way. You don't want to go and tell\n\n1291\n01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:32.480\nother people what\n\n1292\n01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.790\nyou think about a person. You want to tell that person what the issue is you\n\n1293\n01:07:35.790 --> 01:07:36.640\nhave with that person,\n\n1294\n01:07:36.640 --> 01:07:41.900\nyou do it directly and you, and you, you have productive conflict that gets you\n\n1295\n01:07:41.900 --> 01:07:42.720\nto, to a better\n\n1296\n01:07:42.720 --> 01:07:48.970\nplace. And I think this is a, a great example where, you know, David Beckham\n\n1297\n01:07:48.970 --> 01:07:50.720\nshowed a lot of class\n\n1298\n01:07:50.720 --> 01:07:55.700\nby basically forgiving Landon. And then Landon has shown a lot of class by\n\n1299\n01:07:55.700 --> 01:07:56.640\ntelling that story\n\n1300\n01:07:56.640 --> 01:08:00.720\nover and over because he realized that you need to handle conflict directly.\n\n1301\n01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:01.440\nAnd that wasn't the\n\n1302\n01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:05.430\nkind of person he wanted to be. Wasn't the kind of leader that he wanted to be.\n\n1303\n01:08:05.430 --> 01:08:06.480\nAnd, you know,\n\n1304\n01:08:06.480 --> 01:08:10.400\ndon't you just hate it when you hear that somebody said some bad things about\n\n1305\n01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:10.960\nyou that they don't\n\n1306\n01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:15.750\nhave enough courage to come and tell you to your face, you know, what they're\n\n1307\n01:08:15.750 --> 01:08:16.560\nthinking. You know,\n\n1308\n01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:21.460\nwhen that happens, man, usually for me, I write them off. And then I give\n\n1309\n01:08:21.460 --> 01:08:23.280\nBeckham a lot of credit\n\n1310\n01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:28.320\nfor not writing off Landon. And I give Landon and Beckham credit for finding a\n\n1311\n01:08:28.320 --> 01:08:29.600\nway to, to win together.\n\n1312\n01:08:30.400 --> 01:08:33.780\nIt's a pretty great story. I love that one that he shares. David, as we wrap\n\n1313\n01:08:33.780 --> 01:08:34.000\nthis\n\n1314\n01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.920\nepisode today, what do you want people listening to really be thinking about as\n\n1315\n01:08:37.920 --> 01:08:38.800\nthey go into this\n\n1316\n01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:42.530\nweek and as they go into enjoying the World Cup over the next few weeks? You\n\n1317\n01:08:42.530 --> 01:08:43.600\nknow, number one,\n\n1318\n01:08:43.600 --> 01:08:47.270\nwork hard on finding your, your identity that you, you want to bring to work\n\n1319\n01:08:47.270 --> 01:08:48.160\nevery day. What kind\n\n1320\n01:08:48.160 --> 01:08:52.240\nof leader do you want to be? And then be consistent with that because when you\n\n1321\n01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:54.000\n're consistent with that,\n\n1322\n01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:57.750\npeople will trust you and, and they, they will follow you. And then also know\n\n1323\n01:08:57.750 --> 01:08:58.880\nthat, hey, you're\n\n1324\n01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.860\nso much bigger than your work. You're a person that was put on this work, the\n\n1325\n01:09:03.860 --> 01:09:05.120\nworld to, to make\n\n1326\n01:09:05.120 --> 01:09:10.530\na difference and really try to figure out what your identity is. And that\n\n1327\n01:09:10.530 --> 01:09:12.320\nidentity can really drive\n\n1328\n01:09:12.320 --> 01:09:18.270\nyou and, and, and, and help you on a sustainable basis. You know, when you move\n\n1329\n01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:20.480\nto the, the next job\n\n1330\n01:09:20.480 --> 01:09:27.220\nor you move out of a job and you move into nonprofit work or you move into, you\n\n1331\n01:09:27.220 --> 01:09:28.720\nknow, helping other\n\n1332\n01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:34.320\npeople, you know, you have an identity that gives you a purpose and a why that\n\n1333\n01:09:34.320 --> 01:09:35.280\nopens up all kinds of\n\n1334\n01:09:35.280 --> 01:09:38.820\ndoors for you. I can tell you, it certainly has for me, you know, being a\n\n1335\n01:09:38.820 --> 01:09:40.080\nperson who really sees\n\n1336\n01:09:40.080 --> 01:09:44.450\nmyself as someone who lifts other people up through recognition, it has opened\n\n1337\n01:09:44.450 --> 01:09:45.600\nup so many doors for\n\n1338\n01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:50.390\nme. It's amazing. And it's a very joyful thing, you know, to be able to, to\n\n1339\n01:09:50.390 --> 01:09:51.760\nrecognize others. So,\n\n1340\n01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:55.960\nyou know, I think number one, you know, you know, you know, know yourself at\n\n1341\n01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:57.200\nwork and then know what\n\n1342\n01:09:57.200 --> 01:10:03.240\nyour real identity is. I think that's important. Number two, as a leader, if\n\n1343\n01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:04.800\nyou, anything you can\n\n1344\n01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:10.830\ndo to drive continuity on your team, you know, provided that the team has great\n\n1345\n01:10:10.830 --> 01:10:11.840\ntalent, you know,\n\n1346\n01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:16.630\nand has the capability, you want those people to stay for as long as they can\n\n1347\n01:10:16.630 --> 01:10:18.480\nand have continuity\n\n1348\n01:10:18.480 --> 01:10:23.600\nin process. I guarantee you, it will pay off you for you in space. It pays off\n\n1349\n01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:24.960\nfor every great leader,\n\n1350\n01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:31.210\nevery great company, every great team. And last but not least, you know, we all\n\n1351\n01:10:31.210 --> 01:10:33.200\nhave issues, you\n\n1352\n01:10:33.200 --> 01:10:39.190\nknow, in times with people, you know, handle those issues, issues clearly and\n\n1353\n01:10:39.190 --> 01:10:40.400\ndirectly. And you know\n\n1354\n01:10:40.400 --> 01:10:43.960\nwhat happens a lot of times, some people come back to you and they'll tell you\n\n1355\n01:10:43.960 --> 01:10:44.960\nsomething that you\n\n1356\n01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:49.200\ndidn't know and you end up in a better place. But you can't do that if you just\n\n1357\n01:10:49.200 --> 01:10:50.240\nsit in your room or\n\n1358\n01:10:50.240 --> 01:10:54.960\ngo to bed at night and just stew on it and let it get to you. You got to get it\n\n1359\n01:10:54.960 --> 01:10:55.520\nout on the table\n\n1360\n01:10:55.520 --> 01:11:00.560\nwith that person and find a win-win. And I think nine times out of ten, you can\n\n1361\n01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:01.200\ndo it.\n\n1362\n01:11:01.200 --> 01:11:04.560\nWell, David, thanks again for an excellent edition of How Leaders Lead. Thanks,\n\n1363\n01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:08.050\nLeanne and Donovan for spending some time on our show. And thank you, as always\n\n1364\n01:11:08.050 --> 01:11:08.880\n, to our listeners\n\n1365\n01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:14.160\nfor tuning in. Enjoy the World Cup and we will see you soon.\n","is_pinned",true,"pinned_at","2026-07-28T18:02:55.000000Z","is_featured",false,"featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL1369811158.mp3","dx_media_id",3810,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-06-18","itunes_episode_id",296,"youtube_id","wrjgi8CZ8I8","2026-08-19T21:42:30.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with US Men’s Soccer legend Landon Donovan and discover why you can’t make your job your whole identity.","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/q3yjRiFtG5lBCsqFuXw165AWWSFqECiXgedD2cR6.mp3","dx_filename","q3yjRiFtG5lBCsqFuXw165AWWSFqECiXgedD2cR6.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","vdhaZmQYvQn01x4CtrMm00H3vPICdm6bB19tYRCTpC45Y","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/3810.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4273597,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/wrjgi8CZ8I8/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":68,"_98":82,"_99":80,"_100":-5,"_31":84,"_33":101,"_102":-5,"_103":86,"_89":90,"_104":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","2Kbh01xQpBn3Rmf1XBOPA3uiOunbZ64ExQnFkOCj21E00","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Landon","last_name","Donovan","job_title","US Soccer Legend","Landon Donovan, soccer, USMNT, athlete, sports, coach","external_links","https://www.instagram.com/landondonovan10/?hl=en,https://x.com/landondonovan?lang=en,https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/landon-donovan/,https://landondonovan.com/,https://www.ussoccer.com/players/d/landon-donovan",1,"image_media_id",3774,3775,"2026-07-28T18:09:17.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/ODH4MILeTBICEyWAS4UEKyC98904nRGhfTy6E6wR.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/PsEe8ZYgct3FzCt7z53wqVVtHpKt6utW3I0HDcjk.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/284/landon-donovan","industry_id",3,"industry",{"_13":125,"_136":137,"_138":140},"industries",[135],"image_media",{"_13":116,"_98":134,"_99":121,"_100":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_102":-5,"_103":-5,"_89":-5,"_104":-5},{"_13":117,"_98":133,"_99":122,"_100":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_102":-5,"_103":-5,"_89":-5,"_104":-5},"PsEe8ZYgct3FzCt7z53wqVVtHpKt6utW3I0HDcjk.jpg","ODH4MILeTBICEyWAS4UEKyC98904nRGhfTy6E6wR.jpg",{"_13":125,"_136":137,"_138":139},"name","Sports","pivot",{"_35":36,"_124":125},{"_35":36,"_124":125},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_149":150,"_151":152,"_153":154,"_155":156,"_157":158},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]