[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3383/invite-debate-then-own-the-final-decision","id",3383,"title","Invite debate, then own the final decision","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.800\nI always wanted my staff to be engaged in the mornings. We have them every\n\n2\n00:00:03.800 --> 00:00:04.320\nmorning meeting.\n\n3\n00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:08.400\nI have a phone call every morning, no matter what, even if I was on the road\n\n4\n00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:08.880\nnine o'clock,\n\n5\n00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.800\neverybody talk. I want to hear their input. I said, guys, at the end of the day\n\n6\n00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:13.360\n, I said,\n\n7\n00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:16.800\nyou know, we got, I'll make a final decision. We're all in the same team. And\n\n8\n00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:17.200\nevery now and\n\n9\n00:00:17.200 --> 00:00:20.840\nthey get a little, little an scene, fighting back and all that. And I said,\n\n10\n00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:21.920\nwell, wait a minute,\n\n11\n00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:26.210\nplease, I must have missed something. I came to work this morning, go out and\n\n12\n00:00:26.210 --> 00:00:26.560\ncheck on the\n\n13\n00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:30.440\ndoor and see if my name's still on it. I said, they might have erased it. And\n\n14\n00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:31.120\nmaybe yours is up\n\n15\n00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:35.410\nthere now, you know, and that would kind of, okay, I got you. I know you're\n\n16\n00:00:35.410 --> 00:00:36.480\ncoming from. I said,\n\n17\n00:00:36.480 --> 00:00:41.440\ncome on guys, we're going to be together. Okay. And they know that. And I said,\n\n18\n00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:41.680\nfight for your\n\n19\n00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:45.320\nposition, fight for your, maybe respectful, fight for your position. And then\n\n20\n00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:45.840\nwe'll come up and\n\n21\n00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:49.280\nmake a decision. And sometimes you'll be happy that we did a lot of the things\n\n22\n00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:50.400\nyou recommended.\n\n23\n00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:52.960\nSometimes you won't be, but I'll never embarrass you.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1899629,"end_time",1952699,"keywords","Input, decision making, decisions, ownership, disagreement, debate, consensus","slug","invite-debate-then-own-the-final-decision","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","wOJDwjIcPRevdt7eCa8uu2Qx01aDN25snZIaRFgyS6eo","mux_asset_id","QxBrUqDZTJ7JiuAwrZ7lRcZyTbRqsfFpVgVP3B6J5do","leader_id",286,"episode_id",436,"updated_at","2026-07-02T18:17:09.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3383/invite-debate-then-own-the-final-decision","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","How to find common ground","how-to-find-common-ground","Disagreement is a part of leadership. When you understand how to bridge those differences and learn from the opposition, you can accomplish exponentially more than leaders who only work with like-minded people.","summary","

Happy 250th birthday to the United States of America! It’s a great moment to reflect on everything that makes this country so special. And maybe have a hot dog or two.

But this milestone also comes at a moment where our country feels more divided than ever. So today, David sits down with Joe Manchin, the former Governor and Senator of West Virginia. His independent political stance gave him a unique opportunity to find common ground in Washington, even among people with deep disagreements.

Every leader needs to get people with different perspectives aligned and working together. And in this conversation, Joe shows you how to lead in a divided room – and why that skill matters more than ever.

This episode is for you if:

You work in a polarized space where progress feels impossible
You regularly face big, complex decisions
You struggle to work with people who disagree with you
You’re frustrated by party politics

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.760\nHello, friends, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:03.760 --> 00:00:04.640\nNovak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:08.800\nToday, David sits down with Joe Manchin. He's the former governor and senator\n\n4\n00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:09.840\nof West Virginia,\n\n5\n00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:14.180\nand with July 4th happening in just a few days, this is the perfect guest to\n\n6\n00:00:14.180 --> 00:00:15.280\nwelcome in the iconic\n\n7\n00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:20.090\ncelebration of America's 250th. Joe's independent political stance has given\n\n8\n00:00:20.090 --> 00:00:21.440\nhim a unique opportunity\n\n9\n00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:26.520\nto find common ground in Washington, even among people with deeply disagreeing\n\n10\n00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:27.520\nviewpoints.\n\n11\n00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:31.120\nEvery leader needs to get people with different perspectives aligned and\n\n12\n00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.160\nworking together.\n\n13\n00:00:32.160 --> 00:00:36.070\nAnd in this conversation, Joe will show you just how to do that. Enjoy this\n\n14\n00:00:36.070 --> 00:00:36.800\nconversation,\n\n15\n00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:38.400\nand I will see you at the debrief.\n\n16\n00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:47.760\nI want to start by saying I understand you actually have a houseboat,\n\n17\n00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:53.400\nand you would host senators from both parties on your houseboat for pizza and\n\n18\n00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:53.760\nbeer.\n\n19\n00:00:54.720 --> 00:00:59.920\nAnd I got to know, I mean, usually when you think of a senator, they're dressed\n\n20\n00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:01.040\nperfectly like you,\n\n21\n00:01:01.040 --> 00:01:07.200\nthe blue suit, red or blue tie. What was the dress code you had for everybody?\n\n22\n00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.240\nNot on the boat. You couldn't come with a towel on the boat. That's for sure,\n\n23\n00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:11.760\nor even a sport coat.\n\n24\n00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:16.570\nAnyway, the boat's called almost heaven. I've always voted all my life in\n\n25\n00:01:16.570 --> 00:01:17.600\ndifferent ones.\n\n26\n00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:22.380\nThis is a big trawler, people that are in Boney. It's a big 65-foot trawler, 20\n\n27\n00:01:22.380 --> 00:01:23.680\n-foot beam on. It's a\n\n28\n00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:28.490\nbig boat, and I bought it out of bankruptcy and fixed it all up. So that tells\n\n29\n00:01:28.490 --> 00:01:28.880\nyou I'm pretty\n\n30\n00:01:28.880 --> 00:01:33.680\nfrugal on things of that sort. But anyway, it's a wonderful platform to bring\n\n31\n00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.160\npeople together.\n\n32\n00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:38.970\nAnd in Washington, you will find out there's very little time to commingle,\n\n33\n00:01:38.970 --> 00:01:40.080\nvery little time when\n\n34\n00:01:40.080 --> 00:01:44.890\nDemocrats and Republicans can have a bottle of beer together or just a glass of\n\n35\n00:01:44.890 --> 00:01:45.280\nwine or some\n\n36\n00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.960\nwater or refreshments and a little bit of heat and enjoy each other's company\n\n37\n00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:49.600\nin the evening.\n\n38\n00:01:49.600 --> 00:01:53.180\nThere's very few evenings you can do that. But when we had the boat available,\n\n39\n00:01:53.180 --> 00:01:54.080\nwe had one rule.\n\n40\n00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:56.960\nWhatever we brought down, that there were Ds, we had to have that many Rs. If\n\n41\n00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:57.600\nthat many Rs\n\n42\n00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:01.070\ncame, we had that many Ds. So if you had four and four, three and three, five\n\n43\n00:02:01.070 --> 00:02:02.160\nand five, whatever.\n\n44\n00:02:02.160 --> 00:02:06.960\nAnd we have wonderful times. And at the end of every night, we're on top deck\n\n45\n00:02:06.960 --> 00:02:07.360\nof the boat.\n\n46\n00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:12.160\nWe would all get in the circle, and I would put on Lee Greenwood, proud to be\n\n47\n00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:12.960\nan American.\n\n48\n00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.080\nAnd everybody would be in a circle hugging each other and we'd be singing.\n\n49\n00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:21.040\nThat's how we ended every evening. So it was memorable times for everybody. And\n\n50\n00:02:21.040 --> 00:02:21.760\na lot got\n\n51\n00:02:21.760 --> 00:02:26.100\ndone. I said, we pass as much as not more legislation ideas on the boat than we\n\n52\n00:02:26.100 --> 00:02:27.280\ndid in the Capitol.\n\n53\n00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.390\nDylan, tell me one of the more memorable stories on the boat where that really\n\n54\n00:02:30.390 --> 00:02:30.880\nhappened?\n\n55\n00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:34.480\nWell, the memorable story is, is that, you know, I'd bring people down and some\n\n56\n00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:35.520\n, as I've said before,\n\n57\n00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.880\npeople didn't know each other. And this is in the book. I wrote all these\n\n58\n00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:39.760\ndifferent things and put\n\n59\n00:02:39.760 --> 00:02:44.570\nanecdotes in there. But one night I had Tom Harkin down from Iowa. Tom was a\n\n60\n00:02:44.570 --> 00:02:45.360\nwonderful human being.\n\n61\n00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.240\nJust a good man. A little bit more left and then, then much more left in me as\n\n62\n00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:50.880\nput it that way,\n\n63\n00:02:50.880 --> 00:02:54.960\nbut still a very good person. So he came on the boat and he said, Joe, I can't\n\n64\n00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:55.520\nbelieve it. I've\n\n65\n00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.420\nbeen 30 years. I've never been on the Potomac River. And I said, Tom, you're\n\n66\n00:02:59.420 --> 00:02:59.760\ngoing to have\n\n67\n00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:02.400\na wonderful evening. We'll go out and look at the monuments and do all that and\n\n68\n00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.600\nhave a glass of wine,\n\n69\n00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:07.210\na little bit of food, boom, boom, boom. And he said, that's going to be\n\n70\n00:03:07.210 --> 00:03:08.160\nwonderful. And about\n\n71\n00:03:08.160 --> 00:03:12.500\nthat time, Ted Cruz walked down the dock to get on the boat. He said, let me\n\n72\n00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:13.760\noff this damn boat.\n\n73\n00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:17.360\nI thought he was going to jump off. I said, no, no, Tom, wait. They didn't even\n\n74\n00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:18.000\nknow each other,\n\n75\n00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:24.180\nbut they knew they were so diabolically apart that they figured they could not\n\n76\n00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:24.800\neven be on the\n\n77\n00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:29.610\nsame boat. And I said, no, no, no. So I gave him another glass of wine. And I\n\n78\n00:03:29.610 --> 00:03:30.400\nsaid, hurry up\n\n79\n00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:35.210\nuntie the lines of the boat. And let's go. So what's up on there? And David,\n\n80\n00:03:35.210 --> 00:03:36.480\nabout an hour later,\n\n81\n00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:40.960\nthose two were talking and in deep conversation. And the next day or two, they\n\n82\n00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:41.680\ndid an amendment\n\n83\n00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:45.680\ntogether for children, something that was really needed and it's unbelievable.\n\n84\n00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:46.320\nThat would never\n\n85\n00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:50.650\nhappen without them spending a little time on the boat. Yeah. So you had that\n\n86\n00:03:50.650 --> 00:03:51.520\ninstinct. What you got\n\n87\n00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.100\nthem on there, you took off. Once I got them on where I could tell her things\n\n88\n00:03:55.100 --> 00:03:56.560\nweren't that\n\n89\n00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:01.690\nrosy it's a doc, I better get off the dock quick. Get off the boat. You know,\n\n90\n00:04:01.690 --> 00:04:02.640\nyou're great at this.\n\n91\n00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:07.450\nAnd it's what can a leader do in a divided room that actually changes the\n\n92\n00:04:07.450 --> 00:04:08.880\ntemperature that brings\n\n93\n00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:11.920\npeople closer together? Well, let me tell you, if you're trying, if they're\n\n94\n00:04:11.920 --> 00:04:12.960\nbringing you in\n\n95\n00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.640\nand you're the leader or you're a mediator, whoever you are, whatever you do,\n\n96\n00:04:16.640 --> 00:04:17.360\nbut trying to bring\n\n97\n00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:22.690\npeople together, find some commonality. So if you're bringing on a special\n\n98\n00:04:22.690 --> 00:04:24.160\nproblem that we have,\n\n99\n00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:29.280\nbefore that meeting starts, you know, what's your hobby? What do you enjoy? And\n\n100\n00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:30.000\nyou'd be surprised.\n\n101\n00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.710\nYou'll find something to both of you all can talk about. Once you find\n\n102\n00:04:33.710 --> 00:04:35.040\nsomething you can talk\n\n103\n00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.650\nabout and you know, whether it could be golf, it could be hunting, it could be\n\n104\n00:04:38.650 --> 00:04:39.120\nfishing,\n\n105\n00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:43.000\nit could be basically just hiking, it could be anything. Find something of\n\n106\n00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:44.160\ncommonality\n\n107\n00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:48.510\nthat people in the room can talk about. Once you find that, you can talk about\n\n108\n00:04:48.510 --> 00:04:49.600\nproblem areas.\n\n109\n00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.540\nIf you start out with the deepest problems you got, I guarantee you can't get\n\n110\n00:04:53.540 --> 00:04:54.480\nback to anything you\n\n111\n00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:58.150\nagree on because you're so mad when you went in there and you know you're so\n\n112\n00:04:58.150 --> 00:04:58.800\ndifferent,\n\n113\n00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.610\nwe're just trying to find a pathway forward. So I always have done this. I've\n\n114\n00:05:03.610 --> 00:05:03.840\nsaid,\n\n115\n00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:08.180\ntell me what you like. And Dave, and you'll say, well, I'm not here to talk\n\n116\n00:05:08.180 --> 00:05:08.880\nabout that.\n\n117\n00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:13.360\nLet's just say you're being pretty tough on this. I brought you into a meeting\n\n118\n00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:13.840\nand you maybe\n\n119\n00:05:13.840 --> 00:05:17.590\ndidn't want to come day. And maybe you thought it was fruitless to even be\n\n120\n00:05:17.590 --> 00:05:18.720\nthere. So I would say,\n\n121\n00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.050\nno Dave, tell me, let's go off your thing. What's your thing? Scuba diving is\n\n122\n00:05:23.050 --> 00:05:24.000\nhiking. What is it?\n\n123\n00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.980\nAnd we started talking and I might not be doing the same thing you are, but I\n\n124\n00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:28.880\n'll know a little bit\n\n125\n00:05:28.880 --> 00:05:33.290\nabout it or know somebody in my family that really has the same approach that\n\n126\n00:05:33.290 --> 00:05:34.240\nyou have and\n\n127\n00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:38.640\nsame desires. Then we start, we break that barrier. Once you break the barrier,\n\n128\n00:05:38.640 --> 00:05:39.520\nI can talk about\n\n129\n00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:42.880\ndifficult things. You can tell me what your problems are. And I said, David,\n\n130\n00:05:42.880 --> 00:05:43.440\nfine,\n\n131\n00:05:43.440 --> 00:05:49.280\nonly thing I can tell you this, before we start, if we can't change our minds,\n\n132\n00:05:49.280 --> 00:05:50.240\nwe can't change\n\n133\n00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:55.210\nanything. So if we're prepared to look at things differently now and finding\n\n134\n00:05:55.210 --> 00:05:56.400\nout that we have\n\n135\n00:05:56.400 --> 00:06:00.560\ndifferent positions, but there might be different facts that we have not been\n\n136\n00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:01.520\nbrought to our attention,\n\n137\n00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:06.400\nwe have to be able to change our minds to accept the facts if they're accurate.\n\n138\n00:06:06.400 --> 00:06:07.280\nThat's all.\n\n139\n00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:10.860\nOnce you can get that, don't get hunkered down. But you can tell, I can tell\n\n140\n00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:11.680\nwhen I've got people,\n\n141\n00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:16.160\nDavid, that there's personality clashes. I've been in meetings before I asked\n\n142\n00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.880\ntwo people to leave\n\n143\n00:06:16.880 --> 00:06:21.690\nthe room. And I said, I can tell you one thing, this will be a fruitless\n\n144\n00:06:21.690 --> 00:06:24.560\nadventure because you two\n\n145\n00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:31.840\nhave already decided you're in, your DNA doesn't match. And basically, you all\n\n146\n00:06:31.840 --> 00:06:33.040\nhave a personal\n\n147\n00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:37.120\nconflict. And you're not going to be opened up to what we need to talk about.\n\n148\n00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:37.600\nAnd we've been\n\n149\n00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:42.410\nable to move forward. So the leader has to be able to identify, can we get a\n\n150\n00:06:42.410 --> 00:06:43.520\npositive result?\n\n151\n00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:48.650\nCan we move the ball forward? One of the things that we've already picked up is\n\n152\n00:06:48.650 --> 00:06:48.960\na couple of\n\n153\n00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:52.630\ngreat insights on how to bring people together. And I can't wait to get more\n\n154\n00:06:52.630 --> 00:06:53.680\ninto your leadership\n\n155\n00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:58.490\njourney. But first, I want to take you back, Joe. What's the story from your\n\n156\n00:06:58.490 --> 00:06:59.360\nchildhood\n\n157\n00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.080\nthat really shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n158\n00:07:02.080 --> 00:07:06.000\nI think watching my parents and my grandparents, how they treated people\n\n159\n00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.810\nas a young person, there was 20 of us who were grandchildren. There was five in\n\n160\n00:07:10.810 --> 00:07:11.360\nmy family,\n\n161\n00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:17.840\nfive in my aunt and uncle's family and big families. There's five my dad had\n\n162\n00:07:17.840 --> 00:07:19.120\nfour siblings.\n\n163\n00:07:19.760 --> 00:07:24.960\nAnd we were all close. My grandmother made us cognizant of our surroundings.\n\n164\n00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:25.760\nThey came\n\n165\n00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:30.800\nboth my grandparents on both sides came from from York. On my father's side,\n\n166\n00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:31.840\nthey came from Italy,\n\n167\n00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:35.760\nsouthern Italy. On my mother's side, they came from most tribal Czechoslovakia,\n\n168\n00:07:35.760 --> 00:07:41.610\nwhich so they were all hardworking, came from mining communities. And they\n\n169\n00:07:41.610 --> 00:07:42.720\nunderstood what it\n\n170\n00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.360\nwould take to have a better life. And they came to this country. And they were\n\n171\n00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:47.680\nalways so appreciative.\n\n172\n00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.510\nAnd they preached to us all the time. It's by the grace of God that we have the\n\n173\n00:07:51.510 --> 00:07:52.160\nopportunities\n\n174\n00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:56.160\nto help others. And that mama cabbard always say, Joe, if we can count our\n\n175\n00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:56.880\nblessings, we can\n\n176\n00:07:56.880 --> 00:08:00.920\nshare our blessings. We didn't have much, okay? And I thought I was the most\n\n177\n00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:02.000\nprivileged child in the\n\n178\n00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.800\nworld. And I said, I was raised as a privileged child. People said, what did\n\n179\n00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:07.440\nyou live in a big\n\n180\n00:08:07.440 --> 00:08:11.440\nhouse? Well, I lived in a three-room garage apartment beside my grandparents.\n\n181\n00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:11.680\nThey'd\n\n182\n00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:15.360\nyou're living a big, fancy neighborhood. I lived between the railroad tracks\n\n183\n00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:16.240\nand Buffalo Creek.\n\n184\n00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:21.680\nWhy did you think you were so privileged? I said, I had unconditional love. I\n\n185\n00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:22.000\nknew there was\n\n186\n00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.030\nsomeone that loved me unconditional no matter what I did messed up because they\n\n187\n00:08:25.030 --> 00:08:25.760\nalways expected\n\n188\n00:08:25.760 --> 00:08:29.950\nbetter from me. And they would help correct it. So I was held at a very young\n\n189\n00:08:29.950 --> 00:08:30.880\nage that be held\n\n190\n00:08:30.880 --> 00:08:34.350\naccountable and responsible for the words I said, how I said it, and who I\n\n191\n00:08:34.350 --> 00:08:35.200\nmight have heard.\n\n192\n00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.680\nAnd they have consequences. You know, Joe, you and I have something in common.\n\n193\n00:08:39.680 --> 00:08:40.080\nYou know,\n\n194\n00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:43.960\nwe both have a little checklist of ocky in roots. You know, really? Yeah,\n\n195\n00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:45.360\nabsolutely. My father\n\n196\n00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:50.170\ncame from checklist of ocky or his family. And my mother came from the German\n\n197\n00:08:50.170 --> 00:08:50.640\nside, you know,\n\n198\n00:08:50.640 --> 00:08:55.520\na little similar and our backgrounds are similar to in terms of the. Yeah,\n\n199\n00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:56.320\nthere are tough people\n\n200\n00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.370\ngo out tight hard working. So I grew up in a trailer court. And I thought I was\n\n201\n00:09:01.370 --> 00:09:01.840\nprivileged\n\n202\n00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:06.190\ntoo for the same reasons that you talk about having a loving mom and dad is\n\n203\n00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:06.800\nabout the greatest\n\n204\n00:09:06.800 --> 00:09:09.520\ngift God could give you. I think the most\n\n205\n00:09:09.520 --> 00:09:14.860\nrememberable time I have as a young child, my grandmother made all of this whit\n\n206\n00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:15.120\newash\n\n207\n00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:19.930\nher basement. Keep it clean. She had a shower in the bed down there and anybody\n\n208\n00:09:19.930 --> 00:09:20.480\nthat was homeless,\n\n209\n00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:27.210\nbut you're talking back in the 50s now, okay? 57, 55, 55, the 60s, especially,\n\n210\n00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:27.840\nthere was no\n\n211\n00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:32.690\nsocial net whatsoever. None. And with that, people would be riding the train, I\n\n212\n00:09:32.690 --> 00:09:33.120\nguess,\n\n213\n00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.030\nand they'd be what we call homeless today. But they, these were different\n\n214\n00:09:37.030 --> 00:09:38.000\npeople. They were all\n\n215\n00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.110\nskilled and they would end up in Naka Mama K's door and they said, Mama K, can\n\n216\n00:09:42.110 --> 00:09:42.720\nI, can I stay\n\n217\n00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:46.840\nfor a little bit? And she said, sure, honey, she's, I got three rules. Can't c\n\n218\n00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:48.960\nuss. You can't drink\n\n219\n00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.840\nand you have to work. Now, with those three rules, you can stay here with Mama\n\n220\n00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:53.680\nK if you need place\n\n221\n00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:57.460\nto stay. And she that's a standard, right? We hadn't, we had names for\n\n222\n00:09:57.460 --> 00:09:58.720\neverybody. Wilbar,\n\n223\n00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:04.170\nWillard, Peg Lake, Peggy, we had them all. And they were fantastic tradesmen.\n\n224\n00:10:04.170 --> 00:10:04.800\nThey could paint\n\n225\n00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:09.610\nand harp under work and everything. Unbelievable. So then about six weeks would\n\n226\n00:10:09.610 --> 00:10:10.640\ngo by and David,\n\n227\n00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:14.700\nall they'd go and I said, Hey, Mama K, what happened to D Lord? She says, Oh,\n\n228\n00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:15.120\nhoney, don't\n\n229\n00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.600\nworry. He'll be back in about six weeks. He's on the two to get. Is that where\n\n230\n00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:19.040\nyou learned\n\n231\n00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:23.850\nthat the power of the dignity of work? I know you, you talk about that. Exactly\n\n232\n00:10:23.850 --> 00:10:24.320\n. So what\n\n233\n00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.460\nhappened? It carried me all through and I could not figure out. I saw my\n\n234\n00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:29.920\nparents and my grandparents\n\n235\n00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:34.730\nhave the most compassion for people who had handicaps, whether men or\n\n236\n00:10:34.730 --> 00:10:36.400\nphysically. And my good,\n\n237\n00:10:36.400 --> 00:10:39.440\nback then, there's, you know, a lot of kids had polio. And if I was walking\n\n238\n00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.400\nwith my grandmother\n\n239\n00:10:40.400 --> 00:10:46.040\nand we were raised all Catholic and we'd stop and Mama K, make us say the sign\n\n240\n00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:46.800\nacross and say a\n\n241\n00:10:46.800 --> 00:10:50.640\nprayer. And she'd always say, Joe, by the grace of God, that could be you or I\n\n242\n00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:52.160\nand blessings, you\n\n243\n00:10:52.160 --> 00:10:55.740\nknow. And in Thanksgiving time, she said, you've got to find somebody who doesn\n\n244\n00:10:55.740 --> 00:10:57.040\n't have a home to\n\n245\n00:10:57.040 --> 00:11:01.990\nhave a meal and go find a child and bring him home with you. And one time I was\n\n246\n00:11:01.990 --> 00:11:03.360\none neat Thanksgiving\n\n247\n00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.570\ngetting her so bad one time they were not because she's unbelievable. They were\n\n248\n00:11:06.570 --> 00:11:07.280\nall unbelievable\n\n249\n00:11:07.280 --> 00:11:11.930\ncooks. And I couldn't find anybody. Mama K said she saw someone that day up and\n\n250\n00:11:11.930 --> 00:11:12.560\nI go with farming\n\n251\n00:11:12.560 --> 00:11:15.540\ntime, we'll call mine in town. She said, I think that kid might be homeless or\n\n252\n00:11:15.540 --> 00:11:16.160\ndoesn't have a\n\n253\n00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:19.910\nplace to go. I kept running up and down the streets trying to find somebody and\n\n254\n00:11:19.910 --> 00:11:20.480\nfind that\n\n255\n00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:24.360\nfits right in the home and eat. I finally saw God just walked out of his house\n\n256\n00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:24.800\nand some kid,\n\n257\n00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:28.160\nand I said, come on, you're going with me. He said, what? And she went, thanks,\n\n258\n00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:28.720\ngive him dinner.\n\n259\n00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.970\nHe said, I just say, thanks, give him dinner. I don't care. You got to walk in.\n\n260\n00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:32.160\nI feel like\n\n261\n00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:38.560\nyou're hungry. I remember all those things. But Mama K, he was something and\n\n262\n00:11:38.560 --> 00:11:40.000\npeople loved her and\n\n263\n00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:45.240\nshe loved them. And but everybody, everything had a work connotation. At 10\n\n264\n00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:45.840\nyears of age,\n\n265\n00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:49.420\nI had to go work for my grandfather in the grocery store. Yeah, little grocery\n\n266\n00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:50.800\nstore. At 13, I got\n\n267\n00:11:50.800 --> 00:11:55.780\nto work for my father in the furniture store. And at 16, if I was good enough,\n\n268\n00:11:55.780 --> 00:11:56.960\nI got to put a tie\n\n269\n00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.330\non and see if I could sell something. Well, I can tell you, by the time I hit\n\n270\n00:12:00.330 --> 00:12:01.280\n16, Dave, I wasn't\n\n271\n00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:06.960\ngoing back to the truck. I'll put myself something. You know, and speaking of\n\n272\n00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:08.640\nwork, you go on to\n\n273\n00:12:08.640 --> 00:12:13.450\nto start your own business, intersystems, which is a cool, cool business. And\n\n274\n00:12:13.450 --> 00:12:14.320\nyou built that from\n\n275\n00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:19.490\nscratch. And and what did building something from from scratch teach you about\n\n276\n00:12:19.490 --> 00:12:21.040\nleadership that that\n\n277\n00:12:21.040 --> 00:12:26.180\npolitics never could? Well, I was never Dave. I was never him. I was 35 years\n\n278\n00:12:26.180 --> 00:12:26.960\nold before I got\n\n279\n00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.300\ninvolved in politics. I was always around it and watched it. And my uncle was\n\n280\n00:12:31.300 --> 00:12:32.560\nalways involved. He\n\n281\n00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:38.200\nwas a secretary state and then he was a treasurer state treasurer. And he was\n\n282\n00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:39.520\nalways involved statewide\n\n283\n00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:43.400\nraces and legislature and everything. And I was always interested. But I didn't\n\n284\n00:12:43.400 --> 00:12:43.840\nthink I'd ever\n\n285\n00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:47.200\nwant to be involved. I never did see him on the holiday because he was always\n\n286\n00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:48.240\non a parade or\n\n287\n00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:52.720\nout somewhere campaigning, you know, and then I looked at myself 30 years from\n\n288\n00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:53.600\nthen and I said,\n\n289\n00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:58.410\nheck, I'm as bad if not worse than he was. But anyway, just what it is, public\n\n290\n00:12:58.410 --> 00:12:58.880\nservice,\n\n291\n00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:01.520\nthere's a calling. I don't know what to tell you. There was a calling. I\n\n292\n00:13:01.520 --> 00:13:02.960\nwatched my grandmother take\n\n293\n00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:07.760\ncare of some of so many people. I watched my dad who was mayor. And I watched\n\n294\n00:13:07.760 --> 00:13:08.080\nhim, you know,\n\n295\n00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:12.880\ndecisions and how they tried to make it better. And the purpose was serving. It\n\n296\n00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:13.360\nwasn't anything\n\n297\n00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.170\nabout them or what they could get from it or what came from being in public\n\n298\n00:13:18.170 --> 00:13:19.840\nservice. And John Kennedy,\n\n299\n00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:23.540\nwhen he, the candidates took West Virginia like storm in the 1960 primary\n\n300\n00:13:23.540 --> 00:13:25.440\nelection, he had to win\n\n301\n00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:31.140\nthat to debunk the, the religious barrier, which is being a Catholic. And I'd\n\n302\n00:13:31.140 --> 00:13:32.400\never forget one night,\n\n303\n00:13:32.400 --> 00:13:35.980\nwe're watching television, a little black and white television day. And my mom\n\n304\n00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:36.720\nand I were there.\n\n305\n00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.470\nAnd, and I must've been Walter Cronkite says that John Kennedy becomes\n\n306\n00:13:40.470 --> 00:13:42.000\npresident. The pope will run\n\n307\n00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.580\nthe country. I looked at my mom and I said, well, mom, they don't know the\n\n308\n00:13:45.580 --> 00:13:46.320\nCatholics we know.\n\n309\n00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:54.400\nSo anyway, so I just kind of wasn't observed all of that. And I had how I got\n\n310\n00:13:54.400 --> 00:13:55.200\ninto the business was\n\n311\n00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.410\nthere's a lot of my friends in the coal business that were basically losing\n\n312\n00:13:58.410 --> 00:13:59.440\ntheir jobs. And they\n\n313\n00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:03.080\nwere so talented and wanted the place to work and says, Joe, you're in you've\n\n314\n00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:03.600\nbeen in state\n\n315\n00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.720\ngovernment. You understand all this. He says, why don't you get involved? This\n\n316\n00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.560\nis 1989. You can\n\n317\n00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:12.040\nhelp, you know, where people were, where you can sell this coal, we can mine\n\n318\n00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:12.880\nthe coal and make sure\n\n319\n00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:17.220\nthat what we do is done properly as long as we have someone that can market it\n\n320\n00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:18.080\nand sell it.\n\n321\n00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.760\nSo that's how I started. So I would look and see what people go golf on\n\n322\n00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:22.400\nWednesday. That means\n\n323\n00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:25.380\nif we're going golfing, or heck they're not working, they're going golf. And so\n\n324\n00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:26.640\nthat's been my big day.\n\n325\n00:14:26.640 --> 00:14:31.450\nAnd weekends, nobody worked on Saturdays. And if I could find somebody that was\n\n326\n00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:32.400\nbuying coal or\n\n327\n00:14:32.400 --> 00:14:37.520\nanything on the weekend, I'd go then. So I looked at every vulnerable area that\n\n328\n00:14:37.520 --> 00:14:38.080\nI thought my\n\n329\n00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:42.320\ncompetition had in order to take advantage and fill a niche.\n\n330\n00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:48.750\nYou know, and you've been around so many great leaders and you've seen so much.\n\n331\n00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:50.000\nWhat's the best\n\n332\n00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.950\nleadership advice you ever received and who gave it to you? From a public\n\n333\n00:14:53.950 --> 00:14:55.440\nservant, you know, Bob\n\n334\n00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:00.250\nBird gave me some of the better advice that I've ever had, especially how I can\n\n335\n00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:00.880\nunderstand how\n\n336\n00:15:00.880 --> 00:15:05.920\nWashington worked or how the US Senate worked. And I didn't know anything\n\n337\n00:15:05.920 --> 00:15:06.400\nbecause I didn't\n\n338\n00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:10.320\nfall. I never thought it ever be in the United States Senate. I just wanted to\n\n339\n00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:10.880\ndo everything I\n\n340\n00:15:10.880 --> 00:15:14.810\ncould for my state. So I was in the House of delegates and I was in a state\n\n341\n00:15:14.810 --> 00:15:15.280\nSenate.\n\n342\n00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:20.920\nThen I was Secretary of State. I got defeated for Governor 96. And the primary\n\n343\n00:15:20.920 --> 00:15:21.360\nI got beat.\n\n344\n00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:26.190\nThen I came back in 2000 and I ran for Secretary of State and won that. Now I\n\n345\n00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:27.040\nran for Governor\n\n346\n00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:32.720\n24 and won that ran for a reelection in 2008 and won that. And then 2010 Bob\n\n347\n00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.160\nBird died.\n\n348\n00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:42.340\nAnd then I ran for his remaining of his two years of his term to 2012. And I\n\n349\n00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:43.120\nran again,\n\n350\n00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:47.960\nand I ran in 2018. So I had two terms, four and one and one two year term of\n\n351\n00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:49.120\nhis extension.\n\n352\n00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.470\nHe told me this every time, day by time, he must have been preparing me because\n\n353\n00:15:53.470 --> 00:15:54.320\nhe wanted me.\n\n354\n00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.880\nI'll never forget. See this little pen I have on here? This is a US Senate pen.\n\n355\n00:15:58.880 --> 00:16:04.520\nAnd I told him one time we were sitting there. And this had to be when I was\n\n356\n00:16:04.520 --> 00:16:05.360\ngovernor in 25\n\n357\n00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:10.240\nor 26. And I said, he was praying to me about the Senate. He said, \"Senator,\n\n358\n00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.520\nthis is the most deliberate body in the world, Joe.\" He says, \"Everybody tries\n\n359\n00:16:13.520 --> 00:16:14.400\nto break it.\n\n360\n00:16:14.400 --> 00:16:18.480\nEvery president wants absolute power. Everybody who's in the majority wants\n\n361\n00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:19.520\ntotal power to overrun\n\n362\n00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:23.870\nthe other side. And what goes around comes around.\" You have to remember that.\n\n363\n00:16:23.870 --> 00:16:24.000\nAnd the\n\n364\n00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.000\nother thing about the Senate, it's a deliberate body because it takes more than\n\n365\n00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:28.720\njust a simple\n\n366\n00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:33.920\nmajority. It takes a more super majority of 60 votes to even get on a piece of\n\n367\n00:16:33.920 --> 00:16:35.040\nlegislation.\n\n368\n00:16:35.040 --> 00:16:41.600\nIt always gives the opportunity to participate. You can't shut out the other\n\n369\n00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:42.800\nside. That's what's\n\n370\n00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:47.680\nmade our country so special. And he says, \"Remember this, the president is not,\n\n371\n00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:48.320\nyou don't work for\n\n372\n00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:53.130\nthe president. I don't work for anybody. The majority leader, I don't work for\n\n373\n00:16:53.130 --> 00:16:54.400\nanybody. What you do is\n\n374\n00:16:54.400 --> 00:16:59.260\nI work for basically the oath of office I took was my oath of office to protect\n\n375\n00:16:59.260 --> 00:17:00.160\nand defend the\n\n376\n00:17:00.160 --> 00:17:05.800\nConstitution. And I work for the people that hired me to represent them. We\n\n377\n00:17:05.800 --> 00:17:06.800\nlive in a republic,\n\n378\n00:17:06.800 --> 00:17:11.190\nwhich is by the people. And we live in a representative form of democracy,\n\n379\n00:17:11.190 --> 00:17:12.720\nwhich is an experiment.\n\n380\n00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.940\nNo one's ever done it. And it's never lasted this long, 250 years, David. And\n\n381\n00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:19.600\nbasically what it said\n\n382\n00:17:19.600 --> 00:17:25.780\nis we should be able, as citizens, free citizens, with all of us enjoying the\n\n383\n00:17:25.780 --> 00:17:27.200\npursuit of happiness,\n\n384\n00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.530\nbe able to pick the person we want to represent us in certain aspects of public\n\n385\n00:17:31.530 --> 00:17:31.920\nlife.\n\n386\n00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:37.440\nNow, look what's happened. It's the party kicking it. The Democrat and\n\n387\n00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:38.480\nRepublican party have\n\n388\n00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:45.090\ntotal control. It's a duopoly. And it's exactly what George Washington warned\n\n389\n00:17:45.090 --> 00:17:45.680\nus about.\n\n390\n00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:54.180\nHe says, \"The political parties could be the engines for unscrupulous or over\n\n391\n00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:55.200\nreaching men\n\n392\n00:17:55.200 --> 00:18:02.610\nwho basically usurped the power from the people. They would use the parties to\n\n393\n00:18:02.610 --> 00:18:03.520\nusurp the power\n\n394\n00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.630\nfrom the people, and that's exactly what they've done.\" And that's why there's\n\n395\n00:18:07.630 --> 00:18:08.400\npeople like me,\n\n396\n00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:13.530\n45% plus that are no-party affiliation or independence now, because I've seen\n\n397\n00:18:13.530 --> 00:18:14.560\nit from the inside out.\n\n398\n00:18:14.560 --> 00:18:19.910\nSo one, the thing that stuck in my mind the most, what's your purpose in public\n\n399\n00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:21.120\nservice? Is it to\n\n400\n00:18:21.120 --> 00:18:26.300\nserve the public or to serve yourself? And you've got people today that are\n\n401\n00:18:26.300 --> 00:18:27.920\ngoing there for fame\n\n402\n00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:32.000\nand fortune, not for public service. And if you're going in for public service\n\n403\n00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:32.720\nand you're going to\n\n404\n00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.120\nfix things that need to be repaired, you're going to introduce things that are\n\n405\n00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:38.080\nnew in technology\n\n406\n00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:43.040\ncoming on, and how do people, how can we benefit from it? And we've lost that.\n\n407\n00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:44.000\nHarry Bird wanted me\n\n408\n00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.480\nto vote one time for something. He said, \"There's going to be a party-line vote\n\n409\n00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:48.480\n. I never heard the\n\n410\n00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:53.290\nword. When I was in West Virginia about party line, I mean, we don't even talk\n\n411\n00:18:53.290 --> 00:18:54.480\nto the other side,\n\n412\n00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.060\nwe don't work with the others, we don't need the other side, and never reson\n\n413\n00:18:58.060 --> 00:18:58.960\nated until Bob\n\n414\n00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:03.440\nBird explained to me how the system worked. And that stayed in my mind. And\n\n415\n00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:04.160\nwhen I did become a\n\n416\n00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.920\nsenator, I remember what he said, \"Joe, they will try to get you to support\n\n417\n00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:09.520\nwhat they call\n\n418\n00:19:09.520 --> 00:19:13.470\nreconciliation,\" which means you don't have to talk to anybody on the other\n\n419\n00:19:13.470 --> 00:19:15.040\nside. If you're a Democrat,\n\n420\n00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:19.360\nforget about the Republicans. If you have 51 Democrat senators, you don't have\n\n421\n00:19:19.360 --> 00:19:19.840\nto talk to the\n\n422\n00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:24.740\nother side. That's how the House operates every day, David. But here's what\n\n423\n00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:26.400\nGeorge Washington\n\n424\n00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:31.210\nsaid. He knew about that, and he was concerned, very much concerned. And Thomas\n\n425\n00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:31.840\nJefferson was\n\n426\n00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:37.330\nconcerned also. His famous words were this. He said, \"When the people fear\n\n427\n00:19:37.330 --> 00:19:38.800\ntheir government,\n\n428\n00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:43.610\nit's called tyranny. When the government fears its people, it's called liberty\n\n429\n00:19:43.610 --> 00:19:43.680\n.\"\n\n430\n00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:49.360\nAnd he started thinking of where we are today and all the different signs we're\n\n431\n00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:49.760\ngetting and\n\n432\n00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:53.640\nthe different types of personalities that are involved. I still think the\n\n433\n00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:54.560\nchecks and balances\n\n434\n00:19:54.560 --> 00:19:57.840\nare in place. I think that we'll be able to get through all the things that\n\n435\n00:19:57.840 --> 00:19:58.720\npeople think we can't\n\n436\n00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:03.530\nget through. I always want my president to be successful. And if I'm in a\n\n437\n00:20:03.530 --> 00:20:04.640\nposition to help,\n\n438\n00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:09.040\nI'm going to help. But also, I think sometimes in helping Dave, speaking truth\n\n439\n00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:10.480\nto power respectfully,\n\n440\n00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:16.000\nit's just as helpful as it is agreeing. Speaking of power, the president has\n\n441\n00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:17.600\nthe most power in our\n\n442\n00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:23.440\ncountry. More so than what was intended to be. And although you, as a senator,\n\n443\n00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:24.240\nyou did not work\n\n444\n00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:28.720\nfor the president. You serve the people. What's the biggest thing you learned\n\n445\n00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:29.440\nabout leadership\n\n446\n00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.520\njust watching Joe Biden in action? I was disappointed because I knew Joe for an\n\n447\n00:20:33.520 --> 00:20:34.800\nawful long time, okay?\n\n448\n00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:39.840\nAnd he was a friend. I really thought the world of him. But when he got to be\n\n449\n00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:40.800\npresident, it just\n\n450\n00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:43.700\nkind of like he lost the fight, the will to fight. And I told him, I said, \"Mr.\n\n451\n00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:44.320\nPresident,\n\n452\n00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:48.420\nyou're letting a very liberal group of people take you down the creme rose path\n\n453\n00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:49.040\n. You'll never\n\n454\n00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:54.680\nbe able to return from it.\" This is not who you are. And I said, \"Please, let's\n\n455\n00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:55.760\nwork through this.\n\n456\n00:20:55.760 --> 00:21:00.360\nYou're the one on the stage running for a Democrat primary that said, \"I know\n\n457\n00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:01.280\nhow the place works.\n\n458\n00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:06.090\nI've been there for 35 years. I've worked to cross the aisle. And I watched Joe\n\n459\n00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:06.240\nBiden\n\n460\n00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:13.200\ncontinuously work in a bipartisan way. And understanding how sacred that the\n\n461\n00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:14.400\nfilibuster was\n\n462\n00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:19.200\nto hold our country together so that we won't be flip-flopping back and forth\n\n463\n00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.440\nlike other\n\n464\n00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:24.890\ncountries around the world.\" And then when he got there, it just seemed like\n\n465\n00:21:24.890 --> 00:21:26.320\nthe liberal,\n\n466\n00:21:26.320 --> 00:21:30.900\nthe left side of the liberal, far extreme wins of the party took over. And that\n\n467\n00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:31.520\n's where I was at\n\n468\n00:21:31.520 --> 00:21:35.450\nodds with. So you learned from him that you can really lose your roots if you\n\n469\n00:21:35.450 --> 00:21:36.480\n're not careful.\n\n470\n00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.960\nHow about President Trump? What's the biggest thing you've learned watching him\n\n471\n00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:40.560\nin action?\n\n472\n00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:44.240\nWell, he, I knew I probably spent more time with President Trump than most of\n\n473\n00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:44.640\nany other\n\n474\n00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:47.900\npresidents I've worked with. He was very engaging. I enjoyed the engagement we\n\n475\n00:21:47.900 --> 00:21:48.640\ncould talk with this\n\n476\n00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:53.010\nand that. But all of them, they just want to do this or don't do this or I don\n\n477\n00:21:53.010 --> 00:21:53.760\n't care if you do\n\n478\n00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:57.360\nthis or that. Another thing I had to tell him in a very nice way, I said, \"You\n\n479\n00:21:57.360 --> 00:21:58.880\nknow, Mr. President,\n\n480\n00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:03.690\nI'll vote for the Supreme Court if I feel that that's responsible and I can\n\n481\n00:22:03.690 --> 00:22:04.080\nexplain it.\n\n482\n00:22:04.080 --> 00:22:08.890\nI will do it on my own time basis. I'm so sorry, sir. I hope it doesn't offend\n\n483\n00:22:08.890 --> 00:22:09.280\nyou.\n\n484\n00:22:09.280 --> 00:22:13.600\nBut I will do and be able to go home and explain it. And I will do that in such\n\n485\n00:22:13.600 --> 00:22:14.080\na nice way.\"\n\n486\n00:22:14.080 --> 00:22:17.920\nThe thing I knew of the difference with Senator Trump, I mean, President Trump\n\n487\n00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:23.370\nand President Biden, President Biden had been a Senator. So he'd been a public\n\n488\n00:22:23.370 --> 00:22:23.840\nservant. He'd\n\n489\n00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:28.660\nbeen a representative. I knew that President Trump had not. So I thought, you\n\n490\n00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:29.280\nknow, he's going to\n\n491\n00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:32.760\ncome a little bit harder at this, not understanding there's some checks and\n\n492\n00:22:32.760 --> 00:22:33.680\nbalances and there's a\n\n493\n00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.810\npurpose. So if he got upset or got mad, I understood that. And it didn't bother\n\n494\n00:22:38.810 --> 00:22:40.480\nme because I understood\n\n495\n00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:44.560\nhe were not understanding that. I just knew this. If he had been in the Senate,\n\n496\n00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:48.720\nhe would understand probably more why I was doing what I was doing than not. So\n\n497\n00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:49.280\nI had to be a little\n\n498\n00:22:49.280 --> 00:22:53.280\nbit more differential towards them. Yeah. You talk about the importance of\n\n499\n00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:54.880\nbeing able to go home\n\n500\n00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:59.690\nand explain what you're doing and why you're voting this way or that way to\n\n501\n00:22:59.690 --> 00:23:00.800\nyour people. And\n\n502\n00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:05.920\nyou're also called a retail politician. You know, I was in the retail business.\n\n503\n00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:06.640\nI think I know what\n\n504\n00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:11.520\nthat means. But what does being a retail politician mean to you? I would go in.\n\n505\n00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:12.240\nFirst of all,\n\n506\n00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.350\neverybody that I would come into my staff where I was in government, whatever\n\n507\n00:23:15.350 --> 00:23:16.640\nposition I held,\n\n508\n00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:20.320\nI said, \"How do you answer the phone?\" Let me hear that. \"How would you just\n\n509\n00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:24.400\nnormal coming in here?\" I said, \"Well, sure.\" I would just say, if they called\n\n510\n00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:25.040\nyou offices to\n\n511\n00:23:25.040 --> 00:23:28.250\nSenator Manchin's office or to the Governor Manchin's office, how can I help\n\n512\n00:23:28.250 --> 00:23:29.760\nyou? And I said, \"Well,\n\n513\n00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:35.250\nlet's stop right there.\" The word can tells me a lot or tells me nothing. I don\n\n514\n00:23:35.250 --> 00:23:36.240\n't know if you can.\n\n515\n00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.190\nI don't know if you're prepared to. I don't know if you really want to. So let\n\n516\n00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:40.320\n's not use the word\n\n517\n00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:46.000\ncan anymore anymore. May. Let's use May. If you said, \"May I help you? I know\n\n518\n00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.200\nyou're ready. I know\n\n519\n00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:51.280\nyou're prepared. I know you want to.\" There's a difference. You break down\n\n520\n00:23:51.280 --> 00:23:52.560\nevery barrier by that\n\n521\n00:23:52.560 --> 00:23:57.600\nfirst phone call. That's retail. Now, that's a customer just called in. Well,\n\n522\n00:23:57.600 --> 00:23:58.400\nyou know what?\n\n523\n00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:04.080\nWhich customer can't says this? I can't wait to get a phone call from the IRS.\n\n524\n00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:04.800\nI just can't wait.\n\n525\n00:24:04.800 --> 00:24:08.380\nThey're so wonderful. I want to talk to them. We don't think that way about\n\n526\n00:24:08.380 --> 00:24:09.120\ngovernment or\n\n527\n00:24:09.120 --> 00:24:13.200\nanybody. We don't think we want to get good service because they got controlled\n\n528\n00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:13.600\n. Where they\n\n529\n00:24:13.600 --> 00:24:16.610\ntalk to me or not, where they like me or not, whether they're nice or not. I\n\n530\n00:24:16.610 --> 00:24:17.360\nsaid, \"We're not\n\n531\n00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:22.160\ngoing to be there. I want this to be the best experience anyone's ever had with\n\n532\n00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.240\ngovernment,\n\n533\n00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.290\nwhether it be state or federal. So may we help you? Let me know this. And if\n\n534\n00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:28.000\nyou don't hear from me\n\n535\n00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.880\nin three or four days, please call me back. Sometimes things fall through the\n\n536\n00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:32.160\ncrack.\n\n537\n00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:36.760\nAnd don't you hesitate to call me back. Once you do that, you've covered all\n\n538\n00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:38.000\nyour bases because\n\n539\n00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.470\nyou know, Cicero said to Eris human, you're a human being, David, you're going\n\n540\n00:24:41.470 --> 00:24:42.160\nto make mistakes.\n\n541\n00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.970\nBut if you're saying that I'm prone to make a mistake, but you know, some\n\n542\n00:24:46.970 --> 00:24:47.280\npeople say,\n\n543\n00:24:47.280 --> 00:24:50.240\n\"Well, I didn't call anyone to bother you. Wait a minute. You're not bothering\n\n544\n00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:50.640\nme.\n\n545\n00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.360\nYou're just basically reminding me to do my job if I forgot something. So I\n\n546\n00:24:54.360 --> 00:24:56.480\nwould cover all bases.\"\n\n547\n00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.400\nYou know, so you were a Democratic senator for 14 years. And I think you've\n\n548\n00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:01.280\nexplained\n\n549\n00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:04.720\nwhy you went independent because you were fed up with the way.\n\n550\n00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.200\nWell, no, no, no. The work ethic. It was a work then.\n\n551\n00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.200\nI'll explain that. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.\n\n552\n00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:16.320\nThey got mad at me because they said Joe Manchin's killed killing child care. I\n\n553\n00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:16.560\nsaid,\n\n554\n00:25:16.560 --> 00:25:20.800\n\"Have you ever worked with poor people? Have you been around poor people?\"\n\n555\n00:25:20.800 --> 00:25:25.140\nI said, \"You people are talking $200,000 and $400,000 of income. We don't have\n\n556\n00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:25.680\npeople in West\n\n557\n00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:30.490\nVirginia at $200,000 or $400,000. And if we do this, very, very few and far in\n\n558\n00:25:30.490 --> 00:25:31.040\nbetween.\n\n559\n00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:34.880\nThe people that need help are mostly single parents trying to raise a child,\n\n560\n00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.640\nmostly females. And they do need help. And you take a person up to $75,000 in\n\n561\n00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:41.440\nincome,\n\n562\n00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:46.480\nthey should be able to get some assistance. I said, \"So we have a difference\n\n563\n00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:51.290\nof where the need is. And it won't be so costly that we can't afford it. We\n\n564\n00:25:51.290 --> 00:25:52.960\nthrow the country\n\n565\n00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.800\ninto a tailspin.\" On the other hand, then they got mad at me and they said,\n\n566\n00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:02.980\n\"They wanted to send $300 child credits, child tax credits for people that\n\n567\n00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:03.520\nweren't working.\"\n\n568\n00:26:03.520 --> 00:26:08.320\nI said, \"Wait a minute. If you've got people that aren't working in their home,\n\n569\n00:26:08.320 --> 00:26:13.120\nI thought the whole incentive of child care was to help you have a responsible,\n\n570\n00:26:13.120 --> 00:26:18.560\nlivable job.\" And I said, \"I'm not for that. I can't do that.\"\n\n571\n00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.790\nAnd everybody got obsessed, \"Oh, I'm out of this. I don't belong to this party\n\n572\n00:26:23.790 --> 00:26:24.000\n.\"\n\n573\n00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:30.640\nSo as an independent then, you're not a Democrat. You're not a Republican.\n\n574\n00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.800\nI told their Republicans they weren't like me any better than the Democrats.\n\n575\n00:26:34.800 --> 00:26:39.200\nYeah, but how do you lead when nobody's fully on your side?\n\n576\n00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:44.160\nBecause you got the Democrats irritated. The Republicans are irritated. There\n\n577\n00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:44.560\nyou are.\n\n578\n00:26:44.560 --> 00:26:48.450\nI mean, how do you lead when you don't have an affiliation and you're out there\n\n579\n00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:48.480\n?\n\n580\n00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.880\nDavid, everybody wants to work together. Everybody wants to work together,\n\n581\n00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.920\nbut they're expected in Washington to pick your side and be against the other\n\n582\n00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:57.440\nside.\n\n583\n00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:01.840\nSo when there are some people that said, \"We weren't about bipartisan bill,\"\n\n584\n00:27:01.840 --> 00:27:05.520\nbut they would come to me. I had a deep eye, my name, and I was the one that\n\n585\n00:27:05.520 --> 00:27:05.840\nwould always\n\n586\n00:27:05.840 --> 00:27:12.640\ncross over if made sense. But I mean, it's so estranged here and so challenging\n\n587\n00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:13.200\nand difficult.\n\n588\n00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:17.280\nIf you're in cycle, that means you're up for election in two years. You're in\n\n589\n00:27:17.280 --> 00:27:17.680\nthis\n\n590\n00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:22.160\ncycle. When you're in two years as a senator because you run every six years,\n\n591\n00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:28.400\nyou're in a cycle. If you're a Democrat and I'm a Republican, David, they don't\n\n592\n00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:29.200\nwant me to sign\n\n593\n00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:34.010\non to a good piece of legislation that you're trying to pass because you might\n\n594\n00:27:34.010 --> 00:27:34.560\nget credit for\n\n595\n00:27:34.560 --> 00:27:39.680\nand help you get reelected. I couldn't agree to any of this stuff. I said, \"No,\n\n596\n00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:40.560\nif that's good,\n\n597\n00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:43.770\nit's good when he's running and it's good when he's not running and we can get\n\n598\n00:27:43.770 --> 00:27:45.360\nit passed on for it.\"\n\n599\n00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:50.170\nSo I was always against the grain. Hello, friends. I hope you're loving this\n\n600\n00:27:50.170 --> 00:27:51.120\nconversation.\n\n601\n00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:54.880\nBe sure to stay tuned to the very end of the episode. As always, David and I\n\n602\n00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:55.840\nare going to debrief\n\n603\n00:27:55.840 --> 00:28:00.000\nsome of the concepts that he talks about with this week's guests. So stay tuned\n\n604\n00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:01.280\nto the very end\n\n605\n00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:04.960\nand I will see you soon. So people come to you, Joe, because you can bring\n\n606\n00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:06.000\npeople together. But\n\n607\n00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:11.450\nhow do you bring two opposing sides that don't trust each other, particularly\n\n608\n00:28:11.450 --> 00:28:12.480\nin today's world?\n\n609\n00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.290\nAnd you've got the cycle that you just talked about. What's your playbook for\n\n610\n00:28:17.290 --> 00:28:18.000\ndoing that?\n\n611\n00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.800\nWell, you've got to be careful and look and see basically who you're dealing\n\n612\n00:28:20.800 --> 00:28:21.200\nwith here.\n\n613\n00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.200\nIf you're dealing with leadership, the leaders have probably already staked out\n\n614\n00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:25.840\nwhere they are,\n\n615\n00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:30.960\nphilosophically where they are and what their purpose is. And they've already\n\n616\n00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:31.840\ngot their base,\n\n617\n00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:34.940\nwhich is where the money comes from, the basis. And that's where the two\n\n618\n00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:35.440\nparties,\n\n619\n00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:39.920\nthey have the hard left and the hard right. Those are the extremes. Well, the\n\n620\n00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:40.800\namount of money that's\n\n621\n00:28:40.800 --> 00:28:45.600\nable to come into the political process, you know, is unbelievable. $24 billion\n\n622\n00:28:45.600 --> 00:28:46.160\nwas spent\n\n623\n00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:51.800\nin a presidential primary in 2024, 24 billion. Okay, four and a half billion\n\n624\n00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:52.400\ncame from just a\n\n625\n00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.090\nbillionaire class. We've never done that before. So that's what's thrown\n\n626\n00:28:56.090 --> 00:28:57.040\neverything out of\n\n627\n00:28:57.040 --> 00:29:01.380\nkilter. So you have to recognize that and you got to recognize the leaders are\n\n628\n00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:02.320\nnot going to disrupt\n\n629\n00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:06.880\nthat because that disrupts their cash flow. Their business plan doesn't work.\n\n630\n00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:07.920\nIf they try to do\n\n631\n00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.730\nalways the right thing and not what's best for the to keep the numbers and\n\n632\n00:29:12.730 --> 00:29:13.520\nremember the two numbers\n\n633\n00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:19.840\nthat every party is looking for, they want to 18 in the house, 51 in the Senate\n\n634\n00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:20.400\nto control\n\n635\n00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:24.480\nthe majorities. That means they control the agendas. Once they do that, David,\n\n636\n00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:24.880\nwithin the\n\n637\n00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.930\nSenate, you have to have 60. You might not pass anything, but that's okay. You\n\n638\n00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:29.520\n're still got the\n\n639\n00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:34.330\ntruth. You got the gavel. You're in charge. And the only thing I have said, I\n\n640\n00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:34.880\ngo and look\n\n641\n00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:39.690\nlike minded people that basically want to get things done. It doesn't matter\n\n642\n00:29:39.690 --> 00:29:40.320\nabout being a D\n\n643\n00:29:40.320 --> 00:29:44.650\nor an R and some of my dearest friends or Republicans and Democrats that I know\n\n644\n00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:45.440\nthat not do not\n\n645\n00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:50.890\nsubscribe, but if they get in leadership, they're held hostage. So sometimes if\n\n646\n00:29:50.890 --> 00:29:52.720\nyou get five or six\n\n647\n00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.830\nor 10 senators that are kind of working in a centrist way, and I'll give you a\n\n648\n00:29:56.830 --> 00:29:57.920\nperfect one,\n\n649\n00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:02.730\nthe bipartisan infrastructure bill, it was not done from leadership. It was\n\n650\n00:30:02.730 --> 00:30:04.400\ndone by those of us\n\n651\n00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:10.230\nwe had about five and five each Democrat Republicans. We sat down. We worked\n\n652\n00:30:10.230 --> 00:30:10.800\nthrough\n\n653\n00:30:10.800 --> 00:30:14.410\nhow we could adjust this so we could both live with it and sell it. And then we\n\n654\n00:30:14.410 --> 00:30:15.200\nwent and pushed\n\n655\n00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.860\nthe leadership. And then the leadership put it on the table. They weren't going\n\n656\n00:30:18.860 --> 00:30:19.520\nto do it on their\n\n657\n00:30:19.520 --> 00:30:23.470\nown because they had never gotten down to where they had all the work that\n\n658\n00:30:23.470 --> 00:30:24.720\nneeded to be done. So,\n\n659\n00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:30.720\nyou know, I just I look at I just know that the human side of it, David, you\n\n660\n00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:31.680\nwant to get along with\n\n661\n00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:36.720\npeople, you want to be sociable, you want to be able to have dialogue. And I\n\n662\n00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.920\nwas that person I\n\n663\n00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.730\ncould give the social bill deal up by the spades. I could give your dialogue as\n\n664\n00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:43.360\nmuch as you wanted\n\n665\n00:30:43.360 --> 00:30:48.220\nwhenever you need it. And I was always there. So just if you I'd still come, I\n\n666\n00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:49.280\njust felt comfortable\n\n667\n00:30:49.280 --> 00:30:53.360\nand come on, we're better than that. And I'd walk into the Republican cloakroom\n\n668\n00:30:53.360 --> 00:30:53.920\nand they say,\n\n669\n00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:59.370\nOh boy, you switch finally. You switch over. And I say, guys, I've always been\n\n670\n00:30:59.370 --> 00:31:00.240\nwith you when you're\n\n671\n00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:05.050\nright. That's really interesting because, you know, one of the things that I've\n\n672\n00:31:05.050 --> 00:31:06.400\nalways seen as a leader,\n\n673\n00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:11.210\nthere's a lot of power at times to shame people into doing the right thing. Can\n\n674\n00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:12.000\nyou tell a story\n\n675\n00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.330\nabout when you've done that? Well, it's in the business world is different. But\n\n676\n00:31:16.330 --> 00:31:18.320\nin the in the\n\n677\n00:31:18.320 --> 00:31:23.130\npolitical world shaming somebody, you've got to be careful how you do that. I\n\n678\n00:31:23.130 --> 00:31:23.680\ndon't mean\n\n679\n00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:28.720\nshame in a negative way. But it's more in the sense of of appealing to somebody\n\n680\n00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:29.760\n's sense of doing\n\n681\n00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:32.970\nright that if you don't do right, you should sort of be ashamed of yourself.\n\n682\n00:31:32.970 --> 00:31:34.080\nThat's what I mean. I\n\n683\n00:31:34.080 --> 00:31:38.430\nwould never, I would never, you know, imply otherwise. In politics, Dave, and I\n\n684\n00:31:38.430 --> 00:31:39.280\nwould always\n\n685\n00:31:39.280 --> 00:31:43.180\nhave, I always want my staff to be engaged. In the mornings, we have them every\n\n686\n00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:44.000\nmorning meeting.\n\n687\n00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.910\nI have a phone call every morning, no matter what, even if I was on the road\n\n688\n00:31:47.910 --> 00:31:48.560\nnine o'clock,\n\n689\n00:31:48.560 --> 00:31:52.440\neverybody talk, I want to hear their input. I said, guys, at the end of the day\n\n690\n00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:53.040\n, I said,\n\n691\n00:31:53.040 --> 00:31:56.170\nyou know, we got, I'll make a final decision. We're all in the same team. And\n\n692\n00:31:56.170 --> 00:31:56.880\nevery now and\n\n693\n00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.480\nthen they get a little, little ancy and fighting back and all that. And I said,\n\n694\n00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:01.120\nwell, what, what,\n\n695\n00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.900\nwait a minute, please, I must have missed something. I came to work this\n\n696\n00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:05.360\nmorning,\n\n697\n00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:09.130\ngo out and check on the door and see if my name's still on it. I said, they\n\n698\n00:32:09.130 --> 00:32:09.920\nmight have erased it.\n\n699\n00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:14.250\nYou may be yours is up there now, you know, and that would kind of, okay, I got\n\n700\n00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:15.440\nyou. I know you're\n\n701\n00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.620\ncoming from I said, come on guys, we're going to be together. Okay. And they\n\n702\n00:32:19.620 --> 00:32:20.560\nknow that. And I\n\n703\n00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:24.140\nsaid, fight for your position, fight for your, maybe respectful, fight for your\n\n704\n00:32:24.140 --> 00:32:24.720\nposition. And\n\n705\n00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.930\nthen we'll, I'll come up and make a decision. And sometimes you'll be happy\n\n706\n00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:28.800\nthat we did a lot of\n\n707\n00:32:28.800 --> 00:32:32.880\nthings you recommended. Sometimes you won't be, but I'll never embarrass you.\n\n708\n00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.680\nBut I had when I\n\n709\n00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:37.280\nwould hire people, I would tell my staff to bring me the best three. Let me\n\n710\n00:32:37.280 --> 00:32:38.480\nmake sure it's from three.\n\n711\n00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.820\nSo they would always tell me that one time I was a governor, we were looking\n\n712\n00:32:42.820 --> 00:32:43.440\nfor a person to run\n\n713\n00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:49.080\na public insurance agency PI, PIA, public employees insurance agency. And I\n\n714\n00:32:49.080 --> 00:32:50.400\nsaid, you got three good\n\n715\n00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.530\npeople because we need some help there. And they said, yeah, well, we got three\n\n716\n00:32:53.530 --> 00:32:54.080\ngood people.\n\n717\n00:32:54.080 --> 00:32:58.320\nBut the best person didn't want to be interviewed. I said, what? And they said,\n\n718\n00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:01.900\nthe best person didn't want to be interviewed. And I said, really? And I said,\n\n719\n00:33:01.900 --> 00:33:02.720\ngive me that person's\n\n720\n00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:07.530\nname and phone number. And I called the person. And I had a very cordial\n\n721\n00:33:07.530 --> 00:33:08.880\nconversation. I said,\n\n722\n00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:12.160\nlet me ask you something. I said, how do you like the life you have?\n\n723\n00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:17.160\nAnd the person said, I like, I have a good life. I like it very well. And I\n\n724\n00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:18.640\nsaid, I understand you\n\n725\n00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.400\ndon't want to be even interviewed for this job. But can you tell me why? Well,\n\n726\n00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:24.720\nbecause, you know,\n\n727\n00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.680\nbeing a public job, there might be things that I've got to make decisions on\n\n728\n00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:30.240\nthat my kids will\n\n729\n00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.050\nhear people talk about me in this net middle upset them. And I said, really? I\n\n730\n00:33:35.050 --> 00:33:36.160\nsaid, okay.\n\n731\n00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:41.900\nAnd I said, and you say you like the life you have and would like the family\n\n732\n00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:42.800\nhave, I said,\n\n733\n00:33:42.800 --> 00:33:47.610\nwouldn't this be a very poor country to live in if everyone took the same\n\n734\n00:33:47.610 --> 00:33:48.400\nposition you're taking?\n\n735\n00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.070\nWith the ability that you have, the knowledge you have to help, the state of\n\n736\n00:33:52.070 --> 00:33:53.120\nWest Virginia that\n\n737\n00:33:53.120 --> 00:33:57.930\nyou say you reside in and you love, but you're afraid because you're afraid\n\n738\n00:33:57.930 --> 00:33:59.200\nthat someone's going to\n\n739\n00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:03.250\nsay something that might upset your children. And I said, only thing I can tell\n\n740\n00:34:03.250 --> 00:34:04.000\nyou, I told my\n\n741\n00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.000\nchildren, I'm going to be in public service. You're going to hear things. And I\n\n742\n00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:07.680\nwant you all to\n\n743\n00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:11.560\nunderstand that's a very small price to pay for the great opportunity we have\n\n744\n00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:12.400\nto live one heck\n\n745\n00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:15.870\nof a quality life that most people don't have in the world. Well, that's a\n\n746\n00:34:15.870 --> 00:34:17.040\ngreat example, Joe,\n\n747\n00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:21.180\npositively shaming somebody into doing the right thing. Well, you know what?\n\n748\n00:34:21.180 --> 00:34:22.720\nAnd he signed up the\n\n749\n00:34:22.720 --> 00:34:27.690\nnext day he came to work. I'm not surprised, I'm surprised. You know, as a\n\n750\n00:34:27.690 --> 00:34:30.160\nleader, you really can't\n\n751\n00:34:30.160 --> 00:34:35.180\nescape failure. I mean, in fact, failure is something that happens to all of us\n\n752\n00:34:35.180 --> 00:34:37.200\n. What's the\n\n753\n00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:42.010\ndecision you made that you regret and what did it teach you? We were at an\n\n754\n00:34:42.010 --> 00:34:43.600\narmed services meeting\n\n755\n00:34:43.600 --> 00:34:46.520\nand we had all the joint chiefs of staff and we were dogs. Don't ask, don't\n\n756\n00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:47.360\ntell. Remember the\n\n757\n00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.820\ndon't ask, don't tell where Bill Clinton? When he put that in. And by this time\n\n758\n00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:52.800\n, Barack Obama,\n\n759\n00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:57.840\nthey wanted to maybe move on from that. You know, don't ask, don't tell just\n\n760\n00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:58.960\neveryone's accepted in.\n\n761\n00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:04.470\nAnd so I didn't know any difference about that. I have no preference whatsoever\n\n762\n00:35:04.470 --> 00:35:05.520\n. I think everyone\n\n763\n00:35:05.520 --> 00:35:11.280\nhas the right because the oath that I take gives me the responsibility to make\n\n764\n00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:12.800\nsure you have the\n\n765\n00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:17.610\nability to pursue the happiness. So whoever you want to be, whoever you want to\n\n766\n00:35:17.610 --> 00:35:17.920\nlove,\n\n767\n00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.260\nhowever you want to live your life, as long as you don't make me believe that I\n\n768\n00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:22.080\nshould believe the\n\n769\n00:35:22.080 --> 00:35:25.790\nsame, but I'm going to defend you to live yours and enjoy that pursuit of\n\n770\n00:35:25.790 --> 00:35:27.360\nhappiness. I would defend\n\n771\n00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:31.310\nthat. But what happened was they were going down the line of all of the\n\n772\n00:35:31.310 --> 00:35:32.400\nmilitary where this\n\n773\n00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.750\nchanged how you don't. Air Force says, no, we think we can live. We get rid of\n\n774\n00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:36.880\ndon't ask, don't tell.\n\n775\n00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.250\nAnd then went on down until we got to the to the Marines comment on. And the\n\n776\n00:35:42.250 --> 00:35:42.400\nMarine\n\n777\n00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.610\nCommandant said at that time, listen, I've got 50% of my people deployed in\n\n778\n00:35:45.610 --> 00:35:46.960\nAfghanistan right now.\n\n779\n00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:51.770\nThis is a major, major policy change, but could be affecting our fighting\n\n780\n00:35:51.770 --> 00:35:52.000\npersonnel.\n\n781\n00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.130\nWhen I heard that, I said, oh boy, maybe we're going to do that right now. So I\n\n782\n00:35:57.130 --> 00:35:58.080\ndid not support\n\n783\n00:35:58.080 --> 00:36:03.600\ngetting rid of known ass don't tell. And then later, I watched what had\n\n784\n00:36:03.600 --> 00:36:04.800\nhappened and it didn't\n\n785\n00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:09.610\nhave any effect whatsoever by getting rid of it because everybody pretty much\n\n786\n00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:09.840\nknew.\n\n787\n00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.400\nThey just didn't have to live in fear of getting thrown out of the metal tab.\n\n788\n00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:12.880\nOkay.\n\n789\n00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:19.010\nWell, I was on, I was doing a talk show and Rachel Maddow was one of the people\n\n790\n00:36:19.010 --> 00:36:19.200\n, you know,\n\n791\n00:36:19.200 --> 00:36:24.010\nRachel was pretty far left, right? And she was doing, she said, oh, and someone\n\n792\n00:36:24.010 --> 00:36:24.160\nsaid,\n\n793\n00:36:24.160 --> 00:36:29.200\ndoes anybody have any questions for Senator Manchin? And Rachel said, oh, I do,\n\n794\n00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:30.000\nI do, I do.\n\n795\n00:36:30.560 --> 00:36:36.200\nAnd she has, she said, she jumped up and she says, Senator Manchin, you were\n\n796\n00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:37.520\nagainst getting rid\n\n797\n00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:41.670\nof don't ask don't tell. What do you think about that? And I said, Rachel, I\n\n798\n00:36:41.670 --> 00:36:42.720\nmade a mistake.\n\n799\n00:36:42.720 --> 00:36:47.530\nI says, I was listening to the testimony of people in front of me and I just\n\n800\n00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:49.200\nmaybe didn't go deep\n\n801\n00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:53.280\nenough to find out that it hadn't affected. It wasn't going to affect because\n\n802\n00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.000\npretty much\n\n803\n00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:58.890\neveryone knew who was who in the military right now. And now that wasn't a\n\n804\n00:36:58.890 --> 00:37:00.160\nthreat of getting\n\n805\n00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:04.320\nthrown out, if you were gay, that was a difference. And I said, I have nothing\n\n806\n00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:05.440\nagainst people's\n\n807\n00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.440\nsexual preferences. I said, I didn't know if it would be able to affect or\n\n808\n00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:10.960\nwould have any effect.\n\n809\n00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:15.310\nI made a mistake. I didn't do it. And I retracted them. And for that, I'm sorry\n\n810\n00:37:15.310 --> 00:37:15.360\n.\n\n811\n00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.360\nAnd what was the reaction? She went, she went, oops, and we became friends.\n\n812\n00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:25.000\nWhat's the, what's the most difficult, the hardest no vote you ever had to cast\n\n813\n00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:26.080\n? And what\n\n814\n00:37:26.080 --> 00:37:29.290\ndid you learn from that? What it cost you? Well, to tell the President of the\n\n815\n00:37:29.290 --> 00:37:30.000\nUnited States,\n\n816\n00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:35.520\nif six trillion, ten trillion, three tribes, the biggest bill that anyone ever\n\n817\n00:37:35.520 --> 00:37:36.640\nput up in\n\n818\n00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:41.690\nCongress before, which is the BBB bill back better for Joe Biden. And he needed\n\n819\n00:37:41.690 --> 00:37:42.960\nall 50 senators.\n\n820\n00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:48.960\nAnd 49 senators had signed on to that bill. And I could not because there was\n\n821\n00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:49.600\nso much in that\n\n822\n00:37:49.600 --> 00:37:54.880\nbill that I knew would make our country completely dependent on the government.\n\n823\n00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:55.600\nAnd I had to tell\n\n824\n00:37:55.600 --> 00:37:59.380\nthe President in the White House and his living quarters that I couldn't\n\n825\n00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:00.560\nsupport it. And I said,\n\n826\n00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:06.220\nMr. President, you and I are about the same vintage. I said, we remember John\n\n827\n00:38:06.220 --> 00:38:06.960\nKennedy asking\n\n828\n00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.740\nnot what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. And\n\n829\n00:38:09.740 --> 00:38:10.400\nI took that so\n\n830\n00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:14.060\nserious, which I'm sure you did. And it took a lot of us in the public service\n\n831\n00:38:14.060 --> 00:38:15.280\nbecause we thought\n\n832\n00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:20.220\nthat everyone ought to have the ability and have the opportunity to serve. You\n\n833\n00:38:20.220 --> 00:38:21.360\ndon't have to run\n\n834\n00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.570\nfor office, but you have to give something back to your country. You've got to\n\n835\n00:38:24.570 --> 00:38:25.680\ndo something because\n\n836\n00:38:25.680 --> 00:38:31.320\nyou own it. This is a republic. We own it. You have me vote for this bill, and\n\n837\n00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:32.320\nI'm the vote you need\n\n838\n00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:35.900\nto pass this piece of legislation. I believe in my heart of hearts, you're\n\n839\n00:38:35.900 --> 00:38:36.800\ngoing to change the\n\n840\n00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:41.240\npsychic of the nation to how much more can my country do for me. And I said,\n\n841\n00:38:41.240 --> 00:38:42.480\nsir, I didn't sign\n\n842\n00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:47.290\nup for this. I wasn't raised that way. And I definitely don't believe that. I\n\n843\n00:38:47.290 --> 00:38:48.080\nbelieve that\n\n844\n00:38:48.080 --> 00:38:52.000\neverybody has a responsibility to give something back to this country.\n\n845\n00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.200\nCountry was not designed in the government. We have is not was not designed to\n\n846\n00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:58.400\nbe your provider.\n\n847\n00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.160\nIt was designed to be your best partner you've ever had, but a partnership\n\n848\n00:39:02.160 --> 00:39:03.360\ntakes both of us\n\n849\n00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.440\npulling that rope. And that's not what this is, sir. And I cannot vote for that\n\n850\n00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:08.240\n. And I mean,\n\n851\n00:39:08.240 --> 00:39:14.640\nthe whole country went crazy against me because I killed the most landmark\n\n852\n00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:16.000\npiece of legislation\n\n853\n00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.810\nthat all the progressive has won it. It would have been socialism on steroids.\n\n854\n00:39:20.810 --> 00:39:21.760\nAnd I could not do it.\n\n855\n00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:26.160\nHow do you get, you know, innately, you have courage and conviction.\n\n856\n00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:32.340\nHow do you, what advice would you give a leader on how they can develop the\n\n857\n00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:33.280\nkind of courage of\n\n858\n00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:37.280\nconviction you've got to have if you're going to be a good leader? Evaluate if\n\n859\n00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.400\nit comes down to the\n\n860\n00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:43.210\nfinal straw that might change your direction as far as how you take care of\n\n861\n00:39:43.210 --> 00:39:43.840\nyourself or your\n\n862\n00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:49.600\nfamily. Then you've got to look and say, do I have the ability to market myself\n\n863\n00:39:49.600 --> 00:39:50.480\nand still make\n\n864\n00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.480\na living from my family and take care of myself and not be dependent on other\n\n865\n00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:55.440\npeople? Once you\n\n866\n00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:00.960\nevaluate where you stand in life and how you can survive in this world of ours,\n\n867\n00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:02.560\nthen your\n\n868\n00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:06.340\ndecisions should be made on, can you live with yourself? Is it going to be\n\n869\n00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:07.520\nhaunting you? Is it\n\n870\n00:40:07.520 --> 00:40:11.170\ngoing to be something you said, I could, I wish I could do it. Oh, we do it. I\n\n871\n00:40:11.170 --> 00:40:12.080\nwish I would never\n\n872\n00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:15.830\ndone that knowing that you thought there's a difference. If you thought you\n\n873\n00:40:15.830 --> 00:40:17.520\nwere making the right decision\n\n874\n00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:20.860\nwith the fact that you had in the info you had in front of you, David, and it\n\n875\n00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:22.400\nturned out to be wrong,\n\n876\n00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.980\nyou can repair that because you didn't intend to do anything wrong. It turned\n\n877\n00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:27.520\nout not to be good,\n\n878\n00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:31.920\nbut your intention was to be good. You just had the wrong info. You didn't do\n\n879\n00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:32.720\nenough homework to\n\n880\n00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:36.680\nget the right info, okay? You can live with those. What you can't live with\n\n881\n00:40:36.680 --> 00:40:37.840\nwhen you know something\n\n882\n00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.310\nis wrong. You know it's being done for the wrong reason and you know in your\n\n883\n00:40:41.310 --> 00:40:42.160\nheart of hearts you\n\n884\n00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:47.200\ncan't change. That's inside what's inside your souls inside your soul. You know\n\n885\n00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:48.560\nit, but you do it\n\n886\n00:40:48.560 --> 00:40:53.370\nbecause you think it'll enhance your opportunities or your status or whatever.\n\n887\n00:40:53.370 --> 00:40:55.120\nAnd when you do that,\n\n888\n00:40:55.120 --> 00:41:01.400\nthat's when you've sold yourself down. So I've always said, let me say, if I do\n\n889\n00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.120\nthat and people\n\n890\n00:41:03.120 --> 00:41:08.170\ndon't earn their mad at me and I'll give you a perfect example I had to vote. I\n\n891\n00:41:08.170 --> 00:41:08.800\nvoted because\n\n892\n00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:13.180\nI felt very strongly about background checks for guns. And I come from one of\n\n893\n00:41:13.180 --> 00:41:14.480\nthe most gun states\n\n894\n00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:19.420\nthere is, okay? The Second Amendment's precious to me and to all of us. But I\n\n895\n00:41:19.420 --> 00:41:20.480\n've never known anybody\n\n896\n00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:24.560\ndidn't have background checks that bought guns. Now it might be a lineage where\n\n897\n00:41:24.560 --> 00:41:25.440\nyour father bought\n\n898\n00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:29.320\na gun, gave you his gun or vice versa. But there was a process and now they\n\n899\n00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:31.040\ndidn't want that at all.\n\n900\n00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:34.700\nAnd I thought it should be done. And they came after me. Everyone came after me\n\n901\n00:41:34.700 --> 00:41:35.440\n. Democrats and\n\n902\n00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:39.820\nRepublicans that were Second Amendment people. I did work my butt off and go\n\n903\n00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:40.720\naround to every\n\n904\n00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:44.760\ngun store in West Virginia, explained to them that this is what we're doing,\n\n905\n00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:46.160\nwhich is basically\n\n906\n00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:50.160\nhelpful to their business and making sure they're always in people selling guns\n\n907\n00:41:50.160 --> 00:41:51.280\non the next corner\n\n908\n00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.680\nto any Tom, Dick, and Harry just because they don't have to have a background\n\n909\n00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:54.080\ncheck.\n\n910\n00:41:54.080 --> 00:41:59.280\nThat's a great example of a very, you know, tough issue and you had to win over\n\n911\n00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:00.400\na constituency\n\n912\n00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:05.210\nto move on. And you know what I thought? If I got defeated based on that, then\n\n913\n00:42:05.210 --> 00:42:05.760\nI could live with\n\n914\n00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.420\nmyself because I don't want someone to have a gun that shouldn't have a gun\n\n915\n00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:10.160\njust because\n\n916\n00:42:10.160 --> 00:42:13.370\nwe didn't want to take a background check and didn't know that they were that\n\n917\n00:42:13.370 --> 00:42:14.480\nthey were criminally\n\n918\n00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:18.070\nor mentally insane or criminals before. And we want to do it again. If you give\n\n919\n00:42:18.070 --> 00:42:18.640\nthem a gun,\n\n920\n00:42:18.640 --> 00:42:23.450\nI still think very strongly about that. But I could take a defeat on that. I\n\n921\n00:42:23.450 --> 00:42:24.880\nwasn't afraid\n\n922\n00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.560\nDavid was getting defeated. That was definitely a tough issue that you handle.\n\n923\n00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:29.600\nAnd speaking of\n\n924\n00:42:29.600 --> 00:42:33.920\ntoughness, what would be the hardest person you ever had to win over? And how'd\n\n925\n00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.480\nyou do it? Because\n\n926\n00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:39.440\nleaders, we've got to take on those people that sometimes, you know, if you don\n\n927\n00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:40.000\n't get them on\n\n928\n00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:46.960\nyour side, you're in tough shape. Well, this is the big leagues up here. So\n\n929\n00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:47.840\nthere's an awful lot of\n\n930\n00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:51.770\ngood, strong, tough people, you know, and you've got to work on it from the\n\n931\n00:42:51.770 --> 00:42:52.960\nstandpoint and find.\n\n932\n00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.040\nAnd when you have a person, I can tell you, when a person tells me, say, Joe,\n\n933\n00:42:57.040 --> 00:42:57.920\nwould you sign on to\n\n934\n00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:02.730\nthis amendment for me or this bill with me? And I'd say, let me look at that.\n\n935\n00:43:02.730 --> 00:43:04.080\nSure. I hope I can.\n\n936\n00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:08.890\nI said, sounds like a good idea. And I've always taken the approach of if\n\n937\n00:43:08.890 --> 00:43:09.840\nsomebody comes to me from\n\n938\n00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.600\nMissouri or Kansas or anywhere in the country, they're coming because they want\n\n939\n00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:16.160\nto fix something\n\n940\n00:43:16.160 --> 00:43:19.520\nor help their constituents. Well, I'm there to help also because I'm going to\n\n941\n00:43:19.520 --> 00:43:20.240\nbe asking them to help\n\n942\n00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:23.730\nme fix something that I think needs to be repaired in West Virginia. That's\n\n943\n00:43:23.730 --> 00:43:24.640\njust the way I approach\n\n944\n00:43:24.640 --> 00:43:29.030\nthe whole process of public service. I'm there to say, yes, I want to help you.\n\n945\n00:43:29.030 --> 00:43:30.160\nYes, I can help you.\n\n946\n00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:35.100\nAnd if I can't, I want to tell you what it would take for me to help you. So\n\n947\n00:43:35.100 --> 00:43:36.400\nwhen they come to me\n\n948\n00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:40.450\nand they say, Joe, can you sign on to this? Let me read the bill you want with\n\n949\n00:43:40.450 --> 00:43:41.280\nthe amendment.\n\n950\n00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:44.860\nAnd I'd do that. My staff would look at it and give it back to me. And they\n\n951\n00:43:44.860 --> 00:43:45.200\nsaid, you know,\n\n952\n00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:51.400\nthis doesn't really do exactly what you were told it that your fellow colleague\n\n953\n00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:51.920\ntold you that.\n\n954\n00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:56.400\nAnd I would say, OK, I got it. And I said, it's OK. So I'd go back and I'd say,\n\n955\n00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:56.800\nDavid,\n\n956\n00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:01.610\nif you could allow me to make a few adjustments, addendments to this and a few\n\n957\n00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:02.240\nchanges.\n\n958\n00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:07.520\nAnd if I could do that and give it back to you and see if you agree with that,\n\n959\n00:44:07.520 --> 00:44:10.800\nthen we could do this together. It would be very good. You're going to get me\n\n960\n00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.680\none of two answers.\n\n961\n00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:14.720\nYou're going to say, Joe, I'm sorry. I can't change anything in the bill. What\n\n962\n00:44:14.720 --> 00:44:15.680\nyou're telling\n\n963\n00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:19.440\nhim in a nice way is this is a political statement I'm making. I'd love to have\n\n964\n00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:20.160\nyou on it to show\n\n965\n00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:25.260\nthat it's bipartisan. But I've got to make this political statement. And I\n\n966\n00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.080\nwould say,\n\n967\n00:44:26.080 --> 00:44:30.890\nDavid, I understand where you're coming from. But when you really are serious\n\n968\n00:44:30.890 --> 00:44:31.360\nabout trying\n\n969\n00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:35.750\nto pass this, please come to me because I want to help. Is there a particular\n\n970\n00:44:35.750 --> 00:44:36.400\nperson that was\n\n971\n00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:41.840\nthe hardest to get to that end game with or is just basically everybody?\n\n972\n00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.830\nTed Cruz is pretty right. He's good. He's very smart, very good. But I liked it\n\n973\n00:44:45.830 --> 00:44:47.120\n. I worked with Ted.\n\n974\n00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:51.200\nBut he put you through it. He was very, very good at presenting something that\n\n975\n00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:51.760\nsounded so\n\n976\n00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.760\nwonderful that everyone should be motherhood and apple pie. But then it was\n\n977\n00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:56.560\nmaybe had a little\n\n978\n00:44:56.560 --> 00:45:00.440\ntwist to it. You had to figure out what the twist was and work your way around\n\n979\n00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:01.280\nit or through it or\n\n980\n00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:06.340\nnot at all. So different things. But I'm saying it was a good challenge. But he\n\n981\n00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:06.880\n's just a good\n\n982\n00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:10.880\nlegislator. He's a very good legislator. You've talked about it. Right now, our\n\n983\n00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:11.840\ncountry politically\n\n984\n00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:16.800\nis so divided. And people vote for their party and vote for it, not necessarily\n\n985\n00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:18.160\nfor what's good\n\n986\n00:45:18.160 --> 00:45:23.410\nfor our country. And it's a challenge. And as a result, so many people that I\n\n987\n00:45:23.410 --> 00:45:23.920\ntalk to\n\n988\n00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:33.760\nare futile. They're just so frustrated. And I always say that I think if we had\n\n989\n00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.520\na president that\n\n990\n00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:41.560\ncame at it, where knew how to really bring two sides together, we could\n\n991\n00:45:41.560 --> 00:45:43.680\nactually get this country\n\n992\n00:45:43.680 --> 00:45:49.640\nturned around and working together again. And everybody tells me, David, BS, it\n\n993\n00:45:49.640 --> 00:45:50.480\n's just not going\n\n994\n00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:55.600\nto happen. We're too far down the path. But I think you're underestimating the\n\n995\n00:45:55.600 --> 00:45:56.240\npower of what\n\n996\n00:45:56.240 --> 00:46:01.050\na leader can do. What do you think about that, Joe? I mean, people have asked\n\n997\n00:46:01.050 --> 00:46:01.840\nyou to run for\n\n998\n00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:07.360\npresident. Do you think you could do it? Two things you have, David, you have\n\n999\n00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:07.680\nto believe\n\n1000\n00:46:07.680 --> 00:46:11.170\nin yourself first. And you have to believe, if you were putting the right place\n\n1001\n00:46:11.170 --> 00:46:11.840\n, how would you\n\n1002\n00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:16.650\nevaluate? Well, in public service, wherever you're put into, whether it's a\n\n1003\n00:46:16.650 --> 00:46:18.320\nlocal job, a state job,\n\n1004\n00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:24.080\na mayor, or a state legislator, or governor, or a senator, or a congressperson,\n\n1005\n00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:24.640\nyou have to know\n\n1006\n00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:27.760\nyour district, know your state, know what your purpose is. Well, the first\n\n1007\n00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:28.640\nthing is any leader,\n\n1008\n00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:33.240\nyou better figure out what are the most vulnerable points that you have within\n\n1009\n00:46:33.240 --> 00:46:33.840\nthe job you're going\n\n1010\n00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:37.670\nto be taking. So if it's governor, what's the greatest threat to people in West\n\n1011\n00:46:37.670 --> 00:46:38.400\nVirginia with\n\n1012\n00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.350\nface? I want to make sure the first floods, the first some types of things that\n\n1013\n00:46:42.350 --> 00:46:43.280\ncould destroy your\n\n1014\n00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:47.410\nlives, mining accidents, we had everything. You've got to make them better. You\n\n1015\n00:46:47.410 --> 00:46:48.320\n've got to make it\n\n1016\n00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:53.620\nsafer and basically take care of the people. And then you better, if you have a\n\n1017\n00:46:53.620 --> 00:46:54.240\nmandate,\n\n1018\n00:46:54.240 --> 00:46:58.580\nyou got elected, people believe in you, you better take on a tough subject\n\n1019\n00:46:58.580 --> 00:46:59.680\nthere is to help your\n\n1020\n00:46:59.680 --> 00:47:04.780\nstate prosper and do better. And with that, that means you don't waste a\n\n1021\n00:47:04.780 --> 00:47:06.640\nmandate and you better\n\n1022\n00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:10.590\nbe able to handle a crisis. If you can't handle both of those and prepare\n\n1023\n00:47:10.590 --> 00:47:11.920\nyourself for a mandate\n\n1024\n00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:16.730\nto do the tough thing or a crisis to handle the hard thing, then you're not\n\n1025\n00:47:16.730 --> 00:47:17.520\ndeserving of the job.\n\n1026\n00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:20.570\nSo whether it be the president of the United States or whether it be a\n\n1027\n00:47:20.570 --> 00:47:21.680\nleadership executive\n\n1028\n00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:26.010\nposition as governor of the state, that's what you have to have. And all CEOs\n\n1029\n00:47:26.010 --> 00:47:27.120\nhave that. The people\n\n1030\n00:47:27.120 --> 00:47:32.340\nthat rise to the top are able to just assemble basically and look at a guy's\n\n1031\n00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:34.480\nset. What company\n\n1032\n00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.360\nthey have, what's the purpose, what's the goal, how they achieve it. Boom, boom\n\n1033\n00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:38.880\n, boom.\n\n1034\n00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:42.960\nBut can a president today change, bring people together? Do you think it's\n\n1035\n00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:43.920\npossible? Because right\n\n1036\n00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:48.000\nnow people have given up, a lot of people that are very smart have given up.\n\n1037\n00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.960\nYeah, they've given\n\n1038\n00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:53.060\nup to the point where they say this system is basically it's fraught with money\n\n1039\n00:47:53.060 --> 00:47:54.080\n. So can you get\n\n1040\n00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:58.970\ncontrol of the money again? Can you say the citizens united? Can we reverse\n\n1041\n00:47:58.970 --> 00:47:59.920\nthat? Can the\n\n1042\n00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:03.920\nlegislature do it upon themselves? They won't. We're going to have to go to the\n\n1043\n00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:04.800\nreferendum of the\n\n1044\n00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:09.610\npeople and every state in order to change. Because there's enough good people\n\n1045\n00:48:09.610 --> 00:48:11.280\nof good sense, of common\n\n1046\n00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.630\nsense of how they have to run their lives. They expect to be represented that\n\n1047\n00:48:14.630 --> 00:48:15.840\nway in Washington.\n\n1048\n00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.400\nThey're not getting it from here. If you want to put limits on how much money\n\n1049\n00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:20.880\ncould be spent\n\n1050\n00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.780\nin the campaign, it won't be done from the people that are benefiting by. It'll\n\n1051\n00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:25.680\nbe done by the\n\n1052\n00:48:25.680 --> 00:48:31.410\npeople outside watching why it's so bad and it's given up. And I said that so\n\n1053\n00:48:31.410 --> 00:48:33.120\nyou have that first.\n\n1054\n00:48:33.120 --> 00:48:37.280\nHow come so many people can't even vote in primaries because the parties have\n\n1055\n00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:38.320\nshut it down?\n\n1056\n00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:43.280\nSo open the primaries up. Let people run in the primaries not because they have\n\n1057\n00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.490\nall the money in the world or because they're well politically connected but\n\n1058\n00:48:46.490 --> 00:48:47.360\nbecause they might be\n\n1059\n00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:53.920\nthe best of character and have the smartest ability to lead. Get more people in\n\n1060\n00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:54.480\nthat.\n\n1061\n00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:58.460\nSo we're not getting the best of the best. That's our problem. And that's by\n\n1062\n00:48:58.460 --> 00:48:59.360\ndesign.\n\n1063\n00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:02.720\nAnd I've asked people do you believe you have the right to vote because you're\n\n1064\n00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:03.840\na US citizen\n\n1065\n00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:08.350\nor because you belong to a party? They'll all tell me because I'm a US citizen.\n\n1066\n00:49:08.350 --> 00:49:08.800\nI says then\n\n1067\n00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:13.610\nyou're absolutely wrong because the party is picking you. You're not picking\n\n1068\n00:49:13.610 --> 00:49:14.800\nthe candidate.\n\n1069\n00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.010\nThey're giving you who you're going to vote for. And the primaries you only\n\n1070\n00:49:18.010 --> 00:49:19.920\nhave about 17% of people\n\n1071\n00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.800\nthat show up in primaries anymore. And the primaries are controlled. They've\n\n1072\n00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:24.880\nshut them down.\n\n1073\n00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:29.040\nYou can't vote as an independent. There's so many states you can't even get on\n\n1074\n00:49:29.040 --> 00:49:29.760\nthe go vote if you\n\n1075\n00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:33.530\nwanted to vote. You have to join a party. I don't want to be in a party. I want\n\n1076\n00:49:33.530 --> 00:49:34.640\nto be flexible\n\n1077\n00:49:34.640 --> 00:49:39.840\nand work with the best ideas of both parties. They don't want that. So that has\n\n1078\n00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:40.560\nto change it.\n\n1079\n00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:44.720\nAnd it can be changed. But it won't be done if you're allowing Congress or your\n\n1080\n00:49:44.720 --> 00:49:45.600\nlegislature.\n\n1081\n00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:50.320\nIt'll be done by referendums, by people starting a referendum in their state.\n\n1082\n00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:54.660\nAnd once you get so many states that basically can pass a federal, you know,\n\n1083\n00:49:54.660 --> 00:49:56.720\nnational referendum,\n\n1084\n00:49:56.720 --> 00:50:02.170\nthen it's forced for a vote. Then we'll find out who are the people you sent to\n\n1085\n00:50:02.170 --> 00:50:02.720\nWashington.\n\n1086\n00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:05.760\nAre they representing you or representing themselves?\n\n1087\n00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:10.090\nYou know, this has been so much fun and interesting. And I want to have some\n\n1088\n00:50:10.090 --> 00:50:10.640\nmore with\n\n1089\n00:50:10.640 --> 00:50:13.920\nmy lightning round of questions here. So are you ready for this?\n\n1090\n00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.080\nOr what three words best describe you?\n\n1091\n00:50:16.080 --> 00:50:18.160\nLooking for the best.\n\n1092\n00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:21.520\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1093\n00:50:21.520 --> 00:50:24.080\nI thought about no Armstrong. I left myself on that move.\n\n1094\n00:50:24.080 --> 00:50:27.120\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1095\n00:50:27.120 --> 00:50:31.600\nNot getting things accomplished. Not accomplishing what it's what I tend to do.\n\n1096\n00:50:31.600 --> 00:50:33.440\nWho would play you in a movie?\n\n1097\n00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.320\nMaybe John Hamm.\n\n1098\n00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:38.400\nWhat do most people not know about life on a houseboat?\n\n1099\n00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.520\nHow rewarding it is and how relaxing.\n\n1100\n00:50:41.520 --> 00:50:46.800\nBeing on the water, I think that we're, as John Kennedy said, most of our body,\n\n1101\n00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:54.520\nthe water in our body, you know, and the same as what we have and being around\n\n1102\n00:50:54.520 --> 00:50:54.800\nwater.\n\n1103\n00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:58.560\nJust the most calming effect, I think, no matter what, waking up in the morning\n\n1104\n00:50:58.560 --> 00:51:01.200\nand looking at it when you go to bed. Water just is calming.\n\n1105\n00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:05.280\nWhat's something that you've been curious about lately, Joe, that has nothing\n\n1106\n00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.240\nto do with work?\n\n1107\n00:51:06.240 --> 00:51:10.400\nI'm curious about AI, where AI's going to take us.\n\n1108\n00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:13.400\nAnd I'm wondering if we're going to put any guardrails on that'll protect you\n\n1109\n00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:14.480\nin the environment.\n\n1110\n00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:17.280\nOne word that defines great leadership.\n\n1111\n00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:18.880\nCompassion.\n\n1112\n00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:20.720\nWhat's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n1113\n00:51:20.720 --> 00:51:21.840\nDream.\n\n1114\n00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:26.000\nBesides your friends and family, what's your most prized possession?\n\n1115\n00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.200\nA home to gather, a gathering place.\n\n1116\n00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.880\nIf I turn the radio on in your houseboat, what would I hear?\n\n1117\n00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:34.320\nThe oldies.\n\n1118\n00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.520\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n1119\n00:51:37.520 --> 00:51:39.920\nI'm the clean freak.\n\n1120\n00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.880\nWhat's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss?\n\n1121\n00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:47.360\nI think in the morning, you're having my coffee and first thing in the morning\n\n1122\n00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:49.680\nand reading three papers in the morning, every morning.\n\n1123\n00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:51.440\nAll right, we're out of the light.\n\n1124\n00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:52.240\nYou're having a great job.\n\n1125\n00:51:52.240 --> 00:51:54.880\nJust a few more questions and I'll let you go.\n\n1126\n00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:00.160\nYou know, I got to ask you this because this is a great leadership moment in\n\n1127\n00:52:00.160 --> 00:52:01.200\nour country right now.\n\n1128\n00:52:01.200 --> 00:52:08.960\nWhat's your take on what we're doing in Iran and how we're handling it from a\n\n1129\n00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:10.480\nleadership perspective?\n\n1130\n00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:13.600\nWell, first of all, you know, we're taught when you first get especially on\n\n1131\n00:52:13.600 --> 00:52:14.240\narmed services,\n\n1132\n00:52:14.240 --> 00:52:15.680\nyou've got the full countries of concern.\n\n1133\n00:52:15.680 --> 00:52:17.360\nI'm never going to have our backs at all.\n\n1134\n00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:20.480\nThis will be Russia, China, Iran, North Korea.\n\n1135\n00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:24.240\nThey all have neutral capabilities.\n\n1136\n00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:29.040\nSo, how we become so dependent upon China is beyond me.\n\n1137\n00:52:29.040 --> 00:52:31.040\nWe messed up that one really.\n\n1138\n00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:32.720\nBend them in the WTO.\n\n1139\n00:52:32.720 --> 00:52:35.280\nRussia, you never turn your back on Russia.\n\n1140\n00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.000\nThey're never going to be for you and I can't understand why\n\n1141\n00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.600\npresident is so coduled up to them.\n\n1142\n00:52:39.600 --> 00:52:45.280\nAnd on the other hand, with Iran right now, we've known since 1979,\n\n1143\n00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:47.600\nthis is a regime.\n\n1144\n00:52:47.600 --> 00:52:53.600\nIt's a regime change, can't be changed because it's an ideology.\n\n1145\n00:52:54.560 --> 00:52:56.160\nIt's who they are, it's what they believe.\n\n1146\n00:52:56.160 --> 00:52:59.040\nAnd that's not going to be changed.\n\n1147\n00:52:59.040 --> 00:53:03.200\nAnd for us to allow them to be the greatest terrorist on the face of the earth,\n\n1148\n00:53:03.200 --> 00:53:08.240\nthe world is ever known, terrorist supporters of all the different satellites\n\n1149\n00:53:08.240 --> 00:53:08.720\nthey have with\n\n1150\n00:53:08.720 --> 00:53:11.200\nHezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas.\n\n1151\n00:53:11.200 --> 00:53:16.480\nAnd if we don't stop that, so I do not fall to president from going in\n\n1152\n00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.960\ntargeting their capability, I would have hoped there would have been more input\n\n1153\n00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:20.960\n,\n\n1154\n00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:24.020\nwould have been more buy-in from other nations, more buy-in from the\n\n1155\n00:53:24.020 --> 00:53:25.200\nlegislature knowing what\n\n1156\n00:53:25.200 --> 00:53:29.360\nwas going in, the threats that we were facing and why it was so important to\n\n1157\n00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:30.800\nneutralize Iran.\n\n1158\n00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.240\nWe'd have had more people helping this.\n\n1159\n00:53:32.240 --> 00:53:34.400\nWe kept the stress of our nose open.\n\n1160\n00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:37.440\nAll those things that have been a lot easier to accomplish than trying to go to\n\n1161\n00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:37.760\nalone.\n\n1162\n00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:40.800\nAnd basically, when you go to alone sooner or later, there's going to be a\n\n1163\n00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:42.000\nbigger guy on the block\n\n1164\n00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:43.760\nthat says they don't have any help coming.\n\n1165\n00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:46.320\nThe cavalry is not going to come and try to help save them.\n\n1166\n00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:47.520\nSo we'll take them on now.\n\n1167\n00:53:47.520 --> 00:53:50.480\nSo those things worry me a little bit about that.\n\n1168\n00:53:50.480 --> 00:53:51.520\nCan we turn that around?\n\n1169\n00:53:51.520 --> 00:53:52.240\nYes.\n\n1170\n00:53:52.240 --> 00:53:56.240\nI'm praying for the president to open up and rekindle the friendships we have\n\n1171\n00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:57.760\nwith our NATO allies.\n\n1172\n00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:03.210\nPurpose of NATO was not to have a third world war, making sure that the Gulf\n\n1173\n00:54:03.210 --> 00:54:04.400\nstates, the Arab\n\n1174\n00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:08.150\nstates over there, start taking leadership of their neighbors, who are bad\n\n1175\n00:54:08.150 --> 00:54:09.680\nneighbors like Iran.\n\n1176\n00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:13.260\nIt's not going to be a Gentile country or a Jewish country command and run,\n\n1177\n00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:13.840\nIran.\n\n1178\n00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:22.160\nBut it could be the Arab states over there, UAE, Saudis, Emirates, all of them.\n\n1179\n00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:24.000\nAnd I would hope that that would be done.\n\n1180\n00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:30.640\nSo I'm concerned we better start putting basically a rational approach to how\n\n1181\n00:54:30.640 --> 00:54:31.040\nwe do it.\n\n1182\n00:54:31.040 --> 00:54:37.040\nMy thing is they cannot pull out until we get those nuclear, the enriched\n\n1183\n00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:37.920\nuranium.\n\n1184\n00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.920\nNow, if that's the case, then we find out there's no enriched uranium in the\n\n1185\n00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:42.240\nsame way\n\n1186\n00:54:42.240 --> 00:54:44.400\nwe found out there's no weapons of mass destruction.\n\n1187\n00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.160\nYou know, we heard about that.\n\n1188\n00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:47.680\nAnd that's the reason we went to war in Iraq.\n\n1189\n00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:51.280\nAnd we instabilized that whole part of the world because of that.\n\n1190\n00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:54.320\nI hope that's not this case here.\n\n1191\n00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:59.290\nAnd if there is, I hope we stay the course until we are able to secure all the\n\n1192\n00:54:59.290 --> 00:55:00.320\nenriched uranium\n\n1193\n00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:03.600\nto make sure they can do horrific damage to people.\n\n1194\n00:55:03.600 --> 00:55:08.080\nNow, they've already shown their intent and you cannot work with them.\n\n1195\n00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:13.030\nIt's hard to make a deal with them because you're fighting a regime, an\n\n1196\n00:55:13.030 --> 00:55:13.680\nideology.\n\n1197\n00:55:13.680 --> 00:55:16.000\nAnd the IRG is not backing down.\n\n1198\n00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:18.320\nThat's not there's no give up there.\n\n1199\n00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:20.880\nAnd their greatest reward is when you kill them.\n\n1200\n00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:23.200\nThat's a tough negotiation.\n\n1201\n00:55:23.200 --> 00:55:26.240\nBe kind of hard to go in there and ask them if they play golf or not.\n\n1202\n00:55:26.240 --> 00:55:30.290\nWell, you know, that's how you negotiate with someone in the same way in\n\n1203\n00:55:30.290 --> 00:55:31.280\nAfghanistan.\n\n1204\n00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:34.080\nI was over there a few times when I was governor with our troops.\n\n1205\n00:55:34.640 --> 00:55:39.440\nAnd people that live in mud huts or caves have no quality of life at all.\n\n1206\n00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:44.000\nAnd they believe the greatest reward is Allah, you know, embracing them.\n\n1207\n00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.200\nAnd they have nothing to fear.\n\n1208\n00:55:47.200 --> 00:55:48.080\nThey have nothing to lose.\n\n1209\n00:55:48.080 --> 00:55:50.240\nSo that's what we're dealing with.\n\n1210\n00:55:50.240 --> 00:55:52.480\nAnd once you do that, how do you manage it?\n\n1211\n00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:53.920\nThey better figure a way to manage it.\n\n1212\n00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.960\nAnd I think it's going to be the Arab countries that can help manage that\n\n1213\n00:55:56.960 --> 00:55:57.840\nbetter than what we ever\n\n1214\n00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:58.080\ncould.\n\n1215\n00:55:58.080 --> 00:55:59.920\nAnd that's what I'm hoping is done.\n\n1216\n00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:03.670\nBut I don't see us backing out any time and I'm hoping the president opens up\n\n1217\n00:56:03.670 --> 00:56:04.400\nhis arms\n\n1218\n00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:08.160\nand brings Canada back in the fold, brings all of your back in the fold,\n\n1219\n00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:10.480\nbring our NATO allies back into the fold.\n\n1220\n00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:12.000\nWe need them.\n\n1221\n00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:12.720\nThey need us.\n\n1222\n00:56:12.720 --> 00:56:18.000\nWe have the same desires of a freedom, freedom loving people that want to light\n\n1223\n00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:18.560\nthe liberty\n\n1224\n00:56:18.560 --> 00:56:22.480\nthat that gives us and that's those other countries aren't going to give that.\n\n1225\n00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.640\nYou know, shifting gears here.\n\n1226\n00:56:24.640 --> 00:56:30.160\nYou know, you've been married to your wife, Gail, for nearly 60 years.\n\n1227\n00:56:30.160 --> 00:56:34.000\nWhat's been your philosophy or approach to leading at home?\n\n1228\n00:56:35.040 --> 00:56:39.820\nOh, I really, I've been, when I say leading at home, my wife, I've been more of\n\n1229\n00:56:39.820 --> 00:56:40.480\na sorry,\n\n1230\n00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:42.640\npublic life takes that away from you.\n\n1231\n00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:43.680\nThe time that's needed.\n\n1232\n00:56:43.680 --> 00:56:46.320\nSo the time that you're there, but it'd be quality time.\n\n1233\n00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.080\nYou got to catch yourself trying to, if you're a small amount of time,\n\n1234\n00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:52.640\nyou're able to be home and all you're doing is reprimanding everybody.\n\n1235\n00:56:52.640 --> 00:56:54.240\nThat doesn't work.\n\n1236\n00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:59.280\nAnd so there wasn't for my wife being the anchor that she has been.\n\n1237\n00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.280\nWe would not have had, I believe, the quality of family that we have now,\n\n1238\n00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:07.360\nbecause I was always, I mean, I was 35 and kids were very young.\n\n1239\n00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:10.880\nI was gone all the time and I've been going ever since.\n\n1240\n00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:15.120\nAnd it's just that they've been able to accept it, to understand it.\n\n1241\n00:57:15.120 --> 00:57:17.520\nAnd I've always tried to make sure they were part of it.\n\n1242\n00:57:17.520 --> 00:57:18.880\nIt's a difficult situation.\n\n1243\n00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:20.800\nThere are some sacrifices to be made.\n\n1244\n00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:25.610\nYou better have a strong partner, spouse or a partner that understands and can\n\n1245\n00:57:25.610 --> 00:57:25.840\npick\n\n1246\n00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:28.720\nup the slack because, you know, they need guidance.\n\n1247\n00:57:28.720 --> 00:57:31.670\nAnd they got, you got to always be the, for the important time, just put it\n\n1248\n00:57:31.670 --> 00:57:32.400\nthat way.\n\n1249\n00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:33.920\nJoe, you've accomplished so much.\n\n1250\n00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:35.840\nWhat do you see as your unfinished business?\n\n1251\n00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:40.630\nI still believe that we can correct what we see wrong and do it, and it's\n\n1252\n00:57:40.630 --> 00:57:40.720\npolitical.\n\n1253\n00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:41.520\nI'm ashamed.\n\n1254\n00:57:41.520 --> 00:57:45.600\nAll the people I know, all the good people still in the Senate, my friends up\n\n1255\n00:57:45.600 --> 00:57:45.760\nthere,\n\n1256\n00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:46.480\nthey know better.\n\n1257\n00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:48.000\nThey know better.\n\n1258\n00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:50.560\nThey need to say, what's my purpose of being here?\n\n1259\n00:57:50.560 --> 00:57:52.800\nI'm not going to vote for that.\n\n1260\n00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.600\nAnd I'm, I have to tell the president, maybe, I'm just so sorry.\n\n1261\n00:57:55.600 --> 00:57:56.560\nI can't support that.\n\n1262\n00:57:56.560 --> 00:57:59.600\nAnd I know all hellsmen come down on me.\n\n1263\n00:57:59.600 --> 00:58:02.490\nBut this is a very small price to pay knowing I've done the right thing for my\n\n1264\n00:58:02.490 --> 00:58:02.960\ncountry.\n\n1265\n00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:06.760\nIf they can come to that conclusion, I can tell you, you will help the\n\n1266\n00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:08.080\npresident and help his\n\n1267\n00:58:08.080 --> 00:58:12.430\nadministration be a much better leader than just thinking they can force people\n\n1268\n00:58:12.430 --> 00:58:12.960\nby their will.\n\n1269\n00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:18.000\nAnd that means that the three separations of power are judicial right now.\n\n1270\n00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:23.240\nThe legislative, that's just about rolled over and you can't tell the\n\n1271\n00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:23.440\ndifference\n\n1272\n00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:27.120\nby legislative and executive now because they're all bonded as one.\n\n1273\n00:58:27.680 --> 00:58:31.680\nThe House is a Republican that Senate will pub within and the executive branch\n\n1274\n00:58:31.680 --> 00:58:32.560\nof everything.\n\n1275\n00:58:32.560 --> 00:58:34.080\nAnd there's no checks and balances.\n\n1276\n00:58:34.080 --> 00:58:36.640\nWell, the Senate was always the check and balance.\n\n1277\n00:58:36.640 --> 00:58:38.400\nWe didn't expect the House to be there.\n\n1278\n00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:42.400\nThey're going to be always with, if there are majority Democrats and the\n\n1279\n00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:42.640\npresident's\n\n1280\n00:58:42.640 --> 00:58:44.400\nmajority Democrat, we're going to be there.\n\n1281\n00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:45.520\nOkay.\n\n1282\n00:58:45.520 --> 00:58:50.330\nEven if it were Democrat Senate, I didn't think that the president was always\n\n1283\n00:58:50.330 --> 00:58:50.640\nright or we\n\n1284\n00:58:50.640 --> 00:58:52.240\nshould always be there because of the party.\n\n1285\n00:58:52.240 --> 00:58:53.600\nIt should be because of the issues.\n\n1286\n00:58:53.600 --> 00:58:55.280\nAnd they've lost that.\n\n1287\n00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:59.360\nAnd I'm praying to God that we can bring that back that independent and the\n\n1288\n00:58:59.360 --> 00:58:59.920\nsenators,\n\n1289\n00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:04.200\nespecially to say, I'm so sorry, I cannot support that because I think there's\n\n1290\n00:59:04.200 --> 00:59:05.040\na better way to do it.\n\n1291\n00:59:05.040 --> 00:59:06.160\nAll right.\n\n1292\n00:59:06.160 --> 00:59:07.520\nLast question here.\n\n1293\n00:59:07.520 --> 00:59:10.800\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader\n\n1294\n00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.040\n?\n\n1295\n00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:13.920\nI just think that the other side is not always wrong.\n\n1296\n00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:15.120\nYeah.\n\n1297\n00:59:15.120 --> 00:59:20.970\nIf you're involved and it's in your heart to serve, then public service has to\n\n1298\n00:59:20.970 --> 00:59:21.200\nbe.\n\n1299\n00:59:21.200 --> 00:59:22.880\nHow can I help?\n\n1300\n00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:25.680\nThat means not just help yourself or help the people we represent.\n\n1301\n00:59:25.680 --> 00:59:28.720\nHow can you help other people that you need to work with?\n\n1302\n00:59:28.720 --> 00:59:29.840\nBecause there's one.\n\n1303\n00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:31.360\nThere's one you're going to ask you to help you.\n\n1304\n00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:34.160\nYou can't go alone in this game.\n\n1305\n00:59:34.160 --> 00:59:39.120\nIf you think you can be a lone ranger and a political arena that we have today,\n\n1306\n00:59:39.120 --> 00:59:42.960\nthen you better find another horse to ride because it ain't going to be a lone\n\n1307\n00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:43.440\nranger.\n\n1308\n00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:44.880\nThat ain't going to happen.\n\n1309\n00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:48.480\nAnd with that, there's enough good people that came here for the right reason.\n\n1310\n00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:49.920\nYou have to seek them out.\n\n1311\n00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:53.800\nThen take long to figure out who came here for the country first before the\n\n1312\n00:59:53.800 --> 00:59:54.400\nparty.\n\n1313\n00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:57.760\nSo, Joe, you've had many, many people come to you and ask you to run for\n\n1314\n00:59:57.760 --> 00:59:58.160\npresident.\n\n1315\n00:59:58.160 --> 01:00:00.480\nWhy haven't you stepped up and done that?\n\n1316\n01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.860\nI mean, I'm going to give you the pitch you gave the guy who didn't take your\n\n1317\n01:00:03.860 --> 01:00:04.320\njob.\n\n1318\n01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:08.720\nI mean, you call them up and said, \"Hey, what are you doing these days?\n\n1319\n01:00:08.720 --> 01:00:12.080\nIs there anything that could be more important than doing what you just said?\"\n\n1320\n01:00:12.080 --> 01:00:12.960\nI'll tell you one thing.\n\n1321\n01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:16.320\nIf I could have got on 50 ballots, if I could have got on all 50 ballots,\n\n1322\n01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:17.200\nI would have been out there.\n\n1323\n01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:18.160\nI would have been swinging.\n\n1324\n01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:21.760\nI would have been able to say, \"Listen, I'm going to give it the best shot I've\n\n1325\n01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:21.920\ngot\n\n1326\n01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:25.600\nto try to bring some commonality and bring some sensibility to this process\n\n1327\n01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:26.080\nthat we have\n\n1328\n01:00:26.080 --> 01:00:27.200\nis so convoluted now.\"\n\n1329\n01:00:27.200 --> 01:00:31.800\nAnd if I had people, if I was in the middle here and I'm debating and you've\n\n1330\n01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:32.400\ngot a hard\n\n1331\n01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:35.840\nD and a hard R fighting for their position, I said, \"Guess what?\n\n1332\n01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:39.590\nI agree with both of you on many things that I disagree on a lot of things with\n\n1333\n01:00:39.590 --> 01:00:40.320\nboth of you.\"\n\n1334\n01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.120\nBut together, my goodness, if I could get your work in together,\n\n1335\n01:00:43.120 --> 01:00:45.360\nwe're going to do a lot of good things for our country.\n\n1336\n01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:49.360\nRight now, you're never going to have that because the other side thinks that\n\n1337\n01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:50.240\nmy ideas are better.\n\n1338\n01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:54.630\nI've never had a campaign I was ever in, David, that I didn't learn something\n\n1339\n01:00:54.630 --> 01:00:55.680\nfrom the other side.\n\n1340\n01:00:55.680 --> 01:00:59.380\nI'd be in a debate and I'd have to call the person after that maybe I won the\n\n1341\n01:00:59.380 --> 01:00:59.760\nelection.\n\n1342\n01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:01.040\nI won many elections.\n\n1343\n01:01:01.040 --> 01:01:03.920\nSo I'd call the person and say, \"You know, you have a great idea you had,\n\n1344\n01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:05.600\nand we were debating. Can you help me with that?\"\n\n1345\n01:01:05.600 --> 01:01:08.400\nAnd they'd be surprised and we'd build up a relationship.\n\n1346\n01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:13.760\nWell, Joe, I have to tell you, I've enjoyed this conversation immensely.\n\n1347\n01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:18.560\nIt's great to see someone with the kind of conviction you have\n\n1348\n01:01:18.560 --> 01:01:21.360\nand the passion that you have to make our country better.\n\n1349\n01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.840\nAnd I want to thank you so much for taking the time.\n\n1350\n01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:27.520\nMy biggest thing, David, right now, if I can convince, if I can basically help\n\n1351\n01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:33.360\neducate the people of America on how they can be proud of their government,\n\n1352\n01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:36.240\nhow they can be proud of the people that are representing them,\n\n1353\n01:01:36.240 --> 01:01:40.000\nit's by changing how you elected. That's the first thing.\n\n1354\n01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.210\nChanging the amount of money's in the process is not the money that's buying\n\n1355\n01:01:43.210 --> 01:01:43.920\nthe election.\n\n1356\n01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:48.560\nIt's the people making the decisions of who do you want to represent you.\n\n1357\n01:01:48.560 --> 01:01:53.040\nAnd when people start redrawing all these new lines for Congress,\n\n1358\n01:01:53.040 --> 01:01:57.840\nyou know, these are redistricting and everything because gerrymandering,\n\n1359\n01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:02.180\nthat's not what Thomas Jefferson put all that together so that we would have\n\n1360\n01:02:02.180 --> 01:02:03.520\nlike-minded people,\n\n1361\n01:02:03.520 --> 01:02:05.360\nrepresenting like-minded people.\n\n1362\n01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:08.960\nSo I would pick someone, if I'm in an agricultural area,\n\n1363\n01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:12.880\nI could find someone who I knew understood agriculture.\n\n1364\n01:02:13.600 --> 01:02:17.040\nBut you can, if I'm just looking for votes here and there,\n\n1365\n01:02:17.040 --> 01:02:22.160\nthe whole process has been placed, plagued by the Democrat and Republican\n\n1366\n01:02:22.160 --> 01:02:22.960\nprocess\n\n1367\n01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:26.400\nthat we have. And go back to the founding fathers.\n\n1368\n01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:30.080\nThey were concerned about this. They were very much concerned that this would\n\n1369\n01:02:30.080 --> 01:02:30.800\nhappen.\n\n1370\n01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:34.880\nAnd only us can correct it. That means the citizens of our country\n\n1371\n01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:38.400\nwho live under the freedom and the liberty that comes with it,\n\n1372\n01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:43.040\nthat we have to liberate ourselves from the bonds of these two parties that are\n\n1373\n01:02:43.040 --> 01:02:43.760\ndestroying us.\n\n1374\n01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.520\nAll right. Well, let's pray that happens.\n\n1375\n01:02:47.520 --> 01:02:49.920\nThank you very much. We have to work on it. We have to work on it.\n\n1376\n01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:52.160\nThanks, Joe. Thank you, David. Appreciate it.\n\n1377\n01:02:52.160 --> 01:03:02.480\nWell, David, I don't know of a better guess to kick off the July 4th weekend\n\n1378\n01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:05.920\nthan Joe Manchin. Happy 250th to America.\n\n1379\n01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:12.100\nYeah. What a great celebration it's going to be. I can't wait for this 4th of\n\n1380\n01:03:12.100 --> 01:03:12.560\nJuly.\n\n1381\n01:03:12.560 --> 01:03:16.160\nIt's so interesting, David. We rarely have government leaders on the show,\n\n1382\n01:03:16.160 --> 01:03:19.840\nbut at a time like this, when our world feels so divided, it was really\n\n1383\n01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:22.240\nrefreshing to hear Joe\n\n1384\n01:03:22.240 --> 01:03:28.700\ntalk about his deep desire to find common ground among people that just feel so\n\n1385\n01:03:28.700 --> 01:03:29.760\nfar apart right now.\n\n1386\n01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:32.320\nAnd regardless of where you sit with your political beliefs, I think that\n\n1387\n01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:33.840\neverybody can take away\n\n1388\n01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:37.360\nsome really, really tremendous insights from your conversation with Joe.\n\n1389\n01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:41.520\nAnd I am excited, David, to get your take on some of the themes that I pulled\n\n1390\n01:03:41.520 --> 01:03:42.000\nout from the\n\n1391\n01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:46.800\nepisode as you two were talking. And the reason why we don't have government\n\n1392\n01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:47.840\nleaders on the show is\n\n1393\n01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:55.440\nthat the world is so darn divisive. That divisiveness is not something I really\n\n1394\n01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:56.560\nwant to mess with,\n\n1395\n01:03:56.560 --> 01:04:01.370\nand because I want this show to be something that people look at in the most\n\n1396\n01:04:01.370 --> 01:04:02.240\npositive sense.\n\n1397\n01:04:02.240 --> 01:04:07.050\nAnd the reason why Joe was on the show was that he's been known for being\n\n1398\n01:04:07.050 --> 01:04:07.680\nindependent,\n\n1399\n01:04:07.680 --> 01:04:13.680\ntrying to understand both sides and then ultimately making the best decision\n\n1400\n01:04:13.680 --> 01:04:15.440\nthat he's capable of.\n\n1401\n01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:19.760\nAnd the fact that he was independent is the reason why he's on the show.\n\n1402\n01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:25.040\nI don't think I'm going to be having a whole lot more government leaders on the\n\n1403\n01:04:25.040 --> 01:04:25.600\nshow.\n\n1404\n01:04:25.600 --> 01:04:29.440\nAnd that's no slam against him. He's just not the typical government leader,\n\n1405\n01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:34.250\nand that's why he's on the show. Well, he's certainly a gifted at finding\n\n1406\n01:04:34.250 --> 01:04:34.800\ncommon ground,\n\n1407\n01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:38.680\nwhich is the first kind of theme that I want to get your take on, David.\n\n1408\n01:04:38.680 --> 01:04:39.760\nObviously, he has a very\n\n1409\n01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:44.100\nunique way of bringing people together. And that's a skill that is critical to\n\n1410\n01:04:44.100 --> 01:04:45.120\nevery leader.\n\n1411\n01:04:45.120 --> 01:04:49.200\nSo I'm curious, David, if you have a story of when you had significantly\n\n1412\n01:04:49.200 --> 01:04:50.400\nopposing viewpoints\n\n1413\n01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:54.400\non your team, how did you find common ground and bring the team together so\n\n1414\n01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:55.200\nthat they could\n\n1415\n01:04:55.200 --> 01:04:58.800\nkeep moving forward? Well, first of all, I think you've got to do a lot of work\n\n1416\n01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.520\nbefore you have\n\n1417\n01:04:59.520 --> 01:05:05.440\nthe divisiveness. And that means you need to know the people that you work with\n\n1418\n01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:06.480\non a personal\n\n1419\n01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:11.290\nbasis. You need to know what they like to do. I love Joe talking about how\n\n1420\n01:05:11.290 --> 01:05:12.160\nbefore he started\n\n1421\n01:05:12.160 --> 01:05:16.040\nany meeting, he tried to understand what people were into, whether it was golf\n\n1422\n01:05:16.040 --> 01:05:17.680\nor fishing or whatever,\n\n1423\n01:05:17.680 --> 01:05:23.360\njust so that you could show each other that you're human. You both have\n\n1424\n01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:24.640\ndifferent interests,\n\n1425\n01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:31.100\nthat you both have things that are outside of work, that you're a person. And I\n\n1426\n01:05:31.100 --> 01:05:31.760\nthink once\n\n1427\n01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:39.480\npeople see you as a person and know that you see them as a person, that creates\n\n1428\n01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:41.280\na human ground\n\n1429\n01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:50.000\nthat provides a good basis for any kind of productive discussion. One of the\n\n1430\n01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:50.960\nbig challenges\n\n1431\n01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:55.770\nI had in business was always working with our franchisees. The franchisees\n\n1432\n01:05:55.770 --> 01:05:57.920\nwould oftentimes\n\n1433\n01:05:57.920 --> 01:06:05.190\nyou, the company people to be corporate and all we wanted to do was drive up\n\n1434\n01:06:05.190 --> 01:06:07.200\nsales so that we could\n\n1435\n01:06:07.200 --> 01:06:14.160\nwe could make money on the franchise fees, which were tied to sales growth. And\n\n1436\n01:06:14.160 --> 01:06:16.400\nthey didn't think\n\n1437\n01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:23.200\nwe really cared necessarily about their profitability. And those were\n\n1438\n01:06:23.200 --> 01:06:24.240\nmisconceptions.\n\n1439\n01:06:24.240 --> 01:06:32.320\nSo I think in situations like that, you want to level the playing field by\n\n1440\n01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:34.000\ntalking about how you\n\n1441\n01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:41.170\nunderstand each other and each other's needs and how you can win together. For\n\n1442\n01:06:41.170 --> 01:06:42.240\nexample,\n\n1443\n01:06:43.120 --> 01:06:48.080\nthe single biggest way we could drive your profits as a franchisees was to grow\n\n1444\n01:06:48.080 --> 01:06:49.520\nyour sales because\n\n1445\n01:06:49.520 --> 01:06:54.740\nthe flow through on every incremental sales dollar was at least 40%. And that's\n\n1446\n01:06:54.740 --> 01:06:55.280\nhow you\n\n1447\n01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:59.110\ndrive profitability. But letting people know that that's why you make the\n\n1448\n01:06:59.110 --> 01:07:00.400\ndecisions I think really\n\n1449\n01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:09.040\ncreates a common ground that you're in this for as a win-win. And I actually\n\n1450\n01:07:09.040 --> 01:07:11.120\ncreated a franchise\n\n1451\n01:07:11.120 --> 01:07:16.760\npact at Young Brands. We called it a partnership pact and we talked about the\n\n1452\n01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:18.160\ncompany would do this\n\n1453\n01:07:18.160 --> 01:07:22.510\nand the franchisee would do this. And that would be one plus one equals three.\n\n1454\n01:07:22.510 --> 01:07:23.440\nAnd we had like 10\n\n1455\n01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:28.250\nthings that we wrote down that we were committed to. And we did that together.\n\n1456\n01:07:28.250 --> 01:07:30.880\nAnd that was something\n\n1457\n01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:36.330\nthat we referred to as we made decisions. So I think finding common ground that\n\n1458\n01:07:36.330 --> 01:07:37.040\nway is really,\n\n1459\n01:07:37.040 --> 01:07:42.160\nreally great. But one exercise I did in terms of just getting to know the\n\n1460\n01:07:42.160 --> 01:07:45.810\nhuman side of everything is before we'd start meetings or we'd have big\n\n1461\n01:07:45.810 --> 01:07:47.040\nmeetings where everybody\n\n1462\n01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:51.850\ncome together and they might not know each other. We'd take time out and you'd\n\n1463\n01:07:51.850 --> 01:07:52.880\nbe sitting next to\n\n1464\n01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:59.070\nsomebody and we'd say, \"Tell that person three things about you that make you\n\n1465\n01:07:59.070 --> 01:08:03.200\nyou.\" And people\n\n1466\n01:08:03.200 --> 01:08:07.560\nwould share. And I think that just kind of breaks down all kinds of barriers.\n\n1467\n01:08:07.560 --> 01:08:08.880\nAnd I think the human\n\n1468\n01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:14.170\nside does that more than anything. It's so interesting how quickly we forget\n\n1469\n01:08:14.170 --> 01:08:15.680\nthat all of us are human\n\n1470\n01:08:15.680 --> 01:08:20.490\nbeings first. It's so easy to get caught up in your role or your title or your\n\n1471\n01:08:20.490 --> 01:08:21.280\npolitical party.\n\n1472\n01:08:21.280 --> 01:08:26.090\nBut remembering that you're dealing with other human beings who might have\n\n1473\n01:08:26.090 --> 01:08:27.120\nsimilar interests to\n\n1474\n01:08:27.120 --> 01:08:32.570\nyou outside of work or outside of politics is such a good level set. And I love\n\n1475\n01:08:32.570 --> 01:08:33.680\nJoe talking in the\n\n1476\n01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:37.160\nepisode about how when he invites folks on his houseboat, how he gets everybody\n\n1477\n01:08:37.160 --> 01:08:38.000\nto kind of loosen\n\n1478\n01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:41.660\nup and really get to know the human side of each other before they actually\n\n1479\n01:08:41.660 --> 01:08:42.880\nstart talking business.\n\n1480\n01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:48.880\nAnd I would love to be a fly on the wall on Joe's houseboat when he has some of\n\n1481\n01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:49.840\nthose conversations\n\n1482\n01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:57.090\nbecause there's no telling what goes on. David, the next topic that was really\n\n1483\n01:08:57.090 --> 01:08:57.760\ninteresting to me\n\n1484\n01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:01.740\nthat stood out from this episode is this idea of changing your mind. Joe says\n\n1485\n01:09:01.740 --> 01:09:02.480\nin the episode,\n\n1486\n01:09:02.480 --> 01:09:07.290\n\"If we can't change our minds, we can't change anything.\" And that really reson\n\n1487\n01:09:07.290 --> 01:09:08.000\nated with me because\n\n1488\n01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:12.340\nso often leaders hesitate to change their minds because maybe they're afraid\n\n1489\n01:09:12.340 --> 01:09:13.200\nthey're going to lose\n\n1490\n01:09:13.200 --> 01:09:16.780\nface or lose credibility. So I'm curious from your perspective, what coaching\n\n1491\n01:09:16.780 --> 01:09:17.520\nwould you offer\n\n1492\n01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:22.000\nsomeone who is afraid to change their mind, even when they know they should?\n\n1493\n01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:30.560\nI think that people often are very hesitant to change their mind because they\n\n1494\n01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:30.880\nthink that\n\n1495\n01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:35.210\nshows weakness, that it'll show their people that they really weren't convicted\n\n1496\n01:09:35.210 --> 01:09:36.320\nabout what they\n\n1497\n01:09:36.320 --> 01:09:42.590\nfelt. But that's crazy. I mean, you need to change your mind when you have a\n\n1498\n01:09:42.590 --> 01:09:43.840\nreason to change your\n\n1499\n01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:49.290\nmind. And that's what I would tell everybody. If you find a reason that's\n\n1500\n01:09:49.290 --> 01:09:50.320\nlegitimate for you\n\n1501\n01:09:50.320 --> 01:09:54.300\nto change your mind, change your mind and just tell everybody why you did it. I\n\n1502\n01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:55.440\nthink the worst\n\n1503\n01:09:55.440 --> 01:10:00.890\nthing you can do is change your mind and not tell people why. Let people know\n\n1504\n01:10:00.890 --> 01:10:02.800\nthat you're changing\n\n1505\n01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:10.080\nyour mind and why. And I think they'll understand it. And then they can also\n\n1506\n01:10:10.080 --> 01:10:10.880\ngive you their point\n\n1507\n01:10:10.880 --> 01:10:13.540\nof view if they think you're changing your mind for the wrong reason or going\n\n1508\n01:10:13.540 --> 01:10:14.800\nto the wrong direction.\n\n1509\n01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:18.790\nBut just let people know why you're doing what you're going to do. A lot of\n\n1510\n01:10:18.790 --> 01:10:19.200\ntimes,\n\n1511\n01:10:19.200 --> 01:10:26.080\nleaders just don't do that. So A, be humble enough to change your mind if facts\n\n1512\n01:10:26.080 --> 01:10:26.560\nbasically\n\n1513\n01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:32.780\ntell you you should. And then B, when you change your mind, make sure people\n\n1514\n01:10:32.780 --> 01:10:33.600\nunderstand why.\n\n1515\n01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:40.160\nIn Joe's position, he might have one of the toughest positions in the world\n\n1516\n01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:40.800\nwhen it comes\n\n1517\n01:10:40.800 --> 01:10:45.660\nto the ability to change your mind and have people understand that. I feel like\n\n1518\n01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:46.320\nin politics,\n\n1519\n01:10:46.320 --> 01:10:50.480\nit's just what you said. If you change your mind, then people see you as weak\n\n1520\n01:10:50.480 --> 01:10:51.520\nor not convicted\n\n1521\n01:10:51.520 --> 01:10:55.560\nenough to be a great leader or what have you. And that sort of thought is\n\n1522\n01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:57.440\nbringing me to my final\n\n1523\n01:10:57.440 --> 01:11:01.350\nkind of point that I want to make, David, and get your feedback on. And it's\n\n1524\n01:11:01.350 --> 01:11:02.240\nthis concept of\n\n1525\n01:11:02.240 --> 01:11:05.560\ngovernment leadership. I mean, we talk a lot about we want to make the world a\n\n1526\n01:11:05.560 --> 01:11:06.400\nbetter place by\n\n1527\n01:11:06.400 --> 01:11:10.210\ndeveloping better leaders at every stage of life and in every industry. And I\n\n1528\n01:11:10.210 --> 01:11:10.720\nthink that's\n\n1529\n01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:16.680\nespecially true when we talk about government leadership. And because of all of\n\n1530\n01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:17.680\nthe nuances\n\n1531\n01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:23.200\nof our world today, that's really hard. If you could snap your fingers, David,\n\n1532\n01:11:23.200 --> 01:11:24.480\nand give one\n\n1533\n01:11:24.480 --> 01:11:29.430\nleadership trait to everyone in Washington, what would that leadership trait be\n\n1534\n01:11:29.430 --> 01:11:29.920\nand why?\n\n1535\n01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:34.320\nI think the leadership trait would be to do the right thing.\n\n1536\n01:11:36.160 --> 01:11:43.920\nDo what you think is right. And the right things will happen. The problem that\n\n1537\n01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:45.120\nI think we have in\n\n1538\n01:11:45.120 --> 01:11:49.930\npolitics is people get so deeply entrenched in the side that they're supposed\n\n1539\n01:11:49.930 --> 01:11:50.880\nto represent.\n\n1540\n01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:55.270\nMany times, people forget about what's right. There's got to be a way to solve\n\n1541\n01:11:55.270 --> 01:11:55.920\na lot of the\n\n1542\n01:11:55.920 --> 01:11:59.870\nproblems that we have in this world. I mean, immigration being one, for sure. I\n\n1543\n01:11:59.870 --> 01:12:00.800\nmean, there's\n\n1544\n01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:08.520\njust, you know, there's got to be a path to citizenship for people who deserve\n\n1545\n01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:09.840\nthat right.\n\n1546\n01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:14.960\nAnd we all know that they're out there. And I believe both Democrats and\n\n1547\n01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:16.320\nRepublicans know that.\n\n1548\n01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:25.520\nBut people are so entrenched in the stereotypical Democratic and Republican\n\n1549\n01:12:25.520 --> 01:12:26.640\nview that that problem\n\n1550\n01:12:26.640 --> 01:12:32.400\nstill exists. And that's a tough thing. So I'd say, do the right things, the\n\n1551\n01:12:32.400 --> 01:12:33.040\nright things that\n\n1552\n01:12:33.040 --> 01:12:38.480\nwill happen and tackle the tough issues together, not with a perspective that\n\n1553\n01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:38.880\nyou're going to,\n\n1554\n01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:43.920\nthat's always going to be locked in, but do it with an open mind.\n\n1555\n01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:48.750\nAnd find common ground. I mean, to the first kind of theme that we talked about\n\n1556\n01:12:48.750 --> 01:12:48.960\n,\n\n1557\n01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:53.770\nremember that we're all humans here. And for the most part, I think we all want\n\n1558\n01:12:53.770 --> 01:12:54.160\nbasically the\n\n1559\n01:12:54.160 --> 01:12:59.120\nsame thing. So I feel like understanding that the end goal for all of us is\n\n1560\n01:12:59.120 --> 01:13:00.640\nkind of the same thing.\n\n1561\n01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:02.960\nWe just got to figure out how we all get there together.\n\n1562\n01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:07.920\nAnd this is the greatest country in the world. We have a lot of great people\n\n1563\n01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:12.800\nfocused on making it a better country, you know, that are in government, you\n\n1564\n01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:13.120\nknow, they're,\n\n1565\n01:13:13.120 --> 01:13:17.930\nyou know, want to thank everybody that is, you know, dedicating their time and\n\n1566\n01:13:17.930 --> 01:13:18.640\neffort to\n\n1567\n01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:22.570\nreally make that happen. And, you know, yeah, we have our faults, but I wouldn\n\n1568\n01:13:22.570 --> 01:13:23.600\n't go anywhere else.\n\n1569\n01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:29.180\nBut I think one thing that I've always loved about our country is we always try\n\n1570\n01:13:29.180 --> 01:13:30.320\nto make things\n\n1571\n01:13:30.320 --> 01:13:35.320\nbetter. And we're always trying to take it to the next level. And, you know, I\n\n1572\n01:13:35.320 --> 01:13:36.160\nhave a lot of\n\n1573\n01:13:36.160 --> 01:13:40.070\nconfidence that we will. So David, as we wrap this episode, what are the things\n\n1574\n01:13:40.070 --> 01:13:40.880\nthat you really\n\n1575\n01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:45.680\nwant people walking away thinking about? I think number one, it's really\n\n1576\n01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:46.640\nimportant to find common\n\n1577\n01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:52.320\nground if you really want to tackle significant issues and just get the most\n\n1578\n01:13:52.320 --> 01:13:53.680\nout of your people\n\n1579\n01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:59.200\nor your organization. Number two, be humble enough to change your mind and just\n\n1580\n01:13:59.200 --> 01:13:59.600\nmake sure\n\n1581\n01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:04.410\nwhen you do, people know why you did it so that you keep your credibility and\n\n1582\n01:14:04.410 --> 01:14:06.560\nyour integrity.\n\n1583\n01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:13.550\nAnd then the third thing is, is that, you know, no matter whether you're in\n\n1584\n01:14:13.550 --> 01:14:15.440\ngovernment or you're\n\n1585\n01:14:15.440 --> 01:14:21.860\non the corporate world or you have your startup or you're in a nonprofit, just\n\n1586\n01:14:21.860 --> 01:14:23.120\nfocus on doing the\n\n1587\n01:14:23.120 --> 01:14:27.040\nright thing. And when you do the right thing, the right things happen.\n\n1588\n01:14:27.040 --> 01:14:32.240\nWell, David, with that, I will wish you a very happy Fourth of July weekend.\n\n1589\n01:14:32.240 --> 01:14:33.360\nStay safe out there,\n\n1590\n01:14:33.360 --> 01:14:38.170\nhappy 250th America. Thanks, Joe Manchin for joining us for this show. And of\n\n1591\n01:14:38.170 --> 01:14:38.240\ncourse,\n\n1592\n01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:41.840\nthank you to our listeners. Tune in again next Thursday and we will see you\n\n1593\n01:14:41.840 --> 01:14:42.320\nsoon.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL1369638665.mp3","dx_media_id",3842,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-07-02","itunes_episode_id",298,"youtube_id","SMDWxk3HYV4","2026-08-19T21:43:28.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with Joe Manchin, Former Governor and Senator of West Virginia, and discover how to find common ground.","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/LqSwwGVfNm013cFQ3a4MSf9oTTMFci61S6OpEKcT.mp3","dx_filename","LqSwwGVfNm013cFQ3a4MSf9oTTMFci61S6OpEKcT.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","q3i8O9fuBCJsRLH00aYRRXFsyvaYhlnJ4fd7c6Rg401hg","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/3842.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4483596,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/SMDWxk3HYV4/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_96":80,"_97":78,"_98":-5,"_31":82,"_33":99,"_100":-5,"_101":84,"_87":88,"_102":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","JZK538MJKp7xyWwJiEm2QlDevL4DQuznsJcV7fLLGfk","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Joe","last_name","Manchin","job_title","State of West Virginia, Former Governor and Senator","Joe Manchin, politics, government, governor, senator, USA","external_links","https://www.congress.gov/member/joseph-manchin/M001183,https://x.com/Sen_JoeManchin,https://www.instagram.com/joemanchin/,https://www.facebook.com/JoeManchinIII/",0,"image_media_id",3804,3805,"2026-07-20T20:29:33.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/NOIzVlzKC2Wfqa4OoTqt3fHzDs1pLu91KQw61PAR.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/Dd1wrxsGWI6F6Eo8sxdePfT8Eh0i8SuCNlToZWJm.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/286/joe-manchin","industry_id",10,"industry",{"_13":123,"_134":135,"_136":138},"industries",[133],"image_media",{"_13":114,"_96":132,"_97":119,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_100":-5,"_101":-5,"_87":-5,"_102":-5},{"_13":115,"_96":131,"_97":120,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_100":-5,"_101":-5,"_87":-5,"_102":-5},"Dd1wrxsGWI6F6Eo8sxdePfT8Eh0i8SuCNlToZWJm.jpg","NOIzVlzKC2Wfqa4OoTqt3fHzDs1pLu91KQw61PAR.jpg",{"_13":123,"_134":135,"_136":137},"name","Politics and Government","pivot",{"_35":36,"_122":123},{"_35":36,"_122":123},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_147":148,"_149":150,"_151":152,"_153":154,"_155":156},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]