[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":18,"_19":20,"_21":-5,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":41,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_45":46,"_47":-5,"_48":49,"_50":51,"_52":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/804/have-the-courage-to-speak-up","id",804,"title","Have the courage to speak up","subtitle","How Marvin Ellison turned his basic retail job into a new career path","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.160\nAnd so we're taking a break.\n\n2\n00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:05.400\nSo we're in one of the offices and what as typically happens,\n\n3\n00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.600\nyou know, when four people, you're taking a break, you know,\n\n4\n00:00:09.600 --> 00:00:13.080\nat that level, when we were just complaining about everything\n\n5\n00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:14.240\nthat the company was doing wrong.\n\n6\n00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:18.360\nI mean, we had issues with pay and benefits and compensation.\n\n7\n00:00:18.360 --> 00:00:20.760\nWe had issues with systems.\n\n8\n00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:22.680\nWe had all types of concerns.\n\n9\n00:00:22.680 --> 00:00:25.320\nAnd we were there just venting, you know,\n\n10\n00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:28.280\nabout how things should be a lot better.\n\n11\n00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:33.240\nAnd within a couple of minutes of us kind of commiserating\n\n12\n00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:36.640\nin the office, the phone rings, and someone alerts us\n\n13\n00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.440\nthat the vice president for our function has showed up\n\n14\n00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:40.360\nin the store on the now's.\n\n15\n00:00:40.360 --> 00:00:41.520\nAnd this is a true story.\n\n16\n00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:45.160\nAnd he wanted to come in and meet us because he found out,\n\n17\n00:00:45.160 --> 00:00:47.920\nI got four people from my department in the store.\n\n18\n00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.640\nWhat a great opportunity for me to do a quick, you know,\n\n19\n00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:51.440\nfeedback session.\n\n20\n00:00:51.440 --> 00:00:55.480\nSo he comes in and he meets us, introduces himself.\n\n21\n00:00:55.480 --> 00:00:59.080\nAnd we're like, we're totally stunned because Memphis was way\n\n22\n00:00:59.080 --> 00:01:00.160\noff the beaten path.\n\n23\n00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:03.240\nAnd, you know, the corporate office was many, many apples,\n\n24\n00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:03.840\nMinnesota.\n\n25\n00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.680\nAnd so he was there.\n\n26\n00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.920\nAnd the first question he asked after introducing himself was,\n\n27\n00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.680\n\"Look, give me some feedback on how I can help.\n\n28\n00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:12.440\nWhat's working, what's not.\n\n29\n00:01:12.440 --> 00:01:15.040\nI just want to take advantage of being here to understand\n\n30\n00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.040\nif there are any issues that I can address for you.\"\n\n31\n00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:20.800\nAnd of course, I mean, we got issues fresh on my mind.\n\n32\n00:01:20.800 --> 00:01:23.840\nWe just spent the last 30 minutes, you know, listing out\n\n33\n00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:25.920\na litany of issues that we were concerned with.\n\n34\n00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.640\nAnd before I could say anything, you know, my peers jumped out\n\n35\n00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:31.080\nand said, no, things are great.\n\n36\n00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:32.600\nWe love working here.\n\n37\n00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:36.400\nYou know, thank you for all that the company is doing, you know,\n\n38\n00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.320\nto make this, you know, a great company for us to work.\n\n39\n00:01:39.320 --> 00:01:42.080\nAnd I'm thinking to myself, well, that's not true,\n\n40\n00:01:42.080 --> 00:01:45.640\nbut these guys were more tenured than I was.\n\n41\n00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.320\nSo I figured that maybe they were just being more politically astute\n\n42\n00:01:49.320 --> 00:01:49.640\nthan me.\n\n43\n00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.680\nSo I just probably should shut up and just listen.\n\n44\n00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.160\nBut they kept pointing on, you know, and he kept asking\n\n45\n00:01:56.160 --> 00:01:57.720\nand no one would give him feedback.\n\n46\n00:01:57.720 --> 00:01:59.040\nAnd I just couldn't take any longer.\n\n47\n00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.600\nAnd I just raised my hand and said, look, I got one issue.\n\n48\n00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:05.680\nAnd I said, there's a new check acceptance system\n\n49\n00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.240\nthat is really not working.\n\n50\n00:02:07.240 --> 00:02:09.400\nWe've gotten a lot of customer complaints.\n\n51\n00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.680\nAnd I'm not sure that you're aware, but I'm concerned\n\n52\n00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.120\nthat if we don't address this, you know, we're going to lose customers.\n\n53\n00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:18.840\nAnd he wanted more information.\n\n54\n00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:19.880\nSo I shared more information.\n\n55\n00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:21.080\nI gave him more examples.\n\n56\n00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:22.600\nAnd he paused for a second.\n\n57\n00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:23.680\nHe said, let me make a phone call.\n\n58\n00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:26.120\nSo he turned around and made a phone call.\n\n59\n00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.640\nAnd my three periods gave me the evil eye because they're thinking,\n\n60\n00:02:28.640 --> 00:02:30.000\nyou've gotten this all in trouble.\n\n61\n00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:32.640\nYou're telling this guy about this issue.\n\n62\n00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:34.800\nAnd he turns around, he said, well, look, a couple of things.\n\n63\n00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.400\nHe said, I just made a call.\n\n64\n00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:41.360\nI found out that that this system that you're concerned about\n\n65\n00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:42.560\nis actually a pilot.\n\n66\n00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:46.320\nAnd I just called the corporate officer and asked him to shut it down\n\n67\n00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:50.480\nuntil we can learn more about the negative customer implications.\n\n68\n00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:54.840\nAnd he looked at me and he said, Marvin, I've been out visiting stores all week\n\n69\n00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:54.920\n.\n\n70\n00:02:54.920 --> 00:03:00.320\nAnd you're the first person to have the courage to tell me how bad this system\n\n71\n00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:00.480\nwas\n\n72\n00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:05.880\noperating. He said, so I would like to come and visit you at your store today\n\n73\n00:03:05.880 --> 00:03:09.660\nbefore I go back to the corporate office and spend a little time getting to\n\n74\n00:03:09.660 --> 00:03:10.080\nknow you.\n\n75\n00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:19.640\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1650957,"end_time",1840000,"keywords","courage, feedback, retail, career, career path, opinion, lowes","slug","have-the-courage-to-speak-up","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","wga6RXVuaG5GjG8gFeFeES4XOW93jtBKsvxOV8qluPI","mux_asset_id","00nQOONzQjv62eXQ22yHtv5eTslwJGmZ7NKFHA2uATZM","leader_id",112,"episode_id",260,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:37:33.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/804/have-the-courage-to-speak-up","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":37,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_26":108,"_109":110,"_63":111,"_60":112,"_113":114,"_70":115,"_40":116,"_117":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_118":119,"_90":120,"_45":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_47":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_94":130,"_52":-5},"episode",{"_13":39,"_15":53,"_28":54,"_17":55,"_56":57,"_19":58,"_21":59,"_60":61,"_62":-5,"_63":61,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":-5,"_36":37,"_40":76,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_47":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_52":-5},"og_image_media","Tackle the Tough Assignments","tackle-the-tough-assignments","Learn how to stand out at work for all the right reasons – by jumping in to take the assignments other people shy away from. Plus, hear hard-won wisdom from one of our country’s few Black Fortune 500 CEOs about how companies can help fight systemic racism at work and in society as a whole.","summary","

Today’s guest is Marvin Ellison, CEO of Lowe’s.

Have you ever taken over in a position after the previous person left under bad circumstances?

If you have, then you know – those are some of the toughest situations to walk into.

Marvin is amazing for a lot of reasons … but check this out: in EVERY new role during his 25-year career, he has taken over for someone who’s been fired or forced out.

Now, that is a man who is not afraid of a tough assignment!

Marvin was born as the son of sharecroppers and got his start as an hourly retail worker. He has risen through the ranks over the years with a ton of courage, taking the jobs other people didn’t want because he knew it was how he could prove his abilities.

Marvin is also one of the few Black Fortune 500 CEOs in our country, and it’s an honor to have him here to teach us that incredible things can happen when we are brave enough to tackle the tough assignments.

You’ll also learn:

A valuable point of view if you ever find yourself working for a competitor
One practical way you can avoid the leadership bubble and ensure you actually hear directly from your front line team members
A priceless piece of wisdom for what to do when you don’t feel like you fit into your work culture
One surprising element of work-life balance that doesn’t get talked about a lot

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.960\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:08.700\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.700 --> 00:00:10.740\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:14.100\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:14.100 --> 00:00:14.660\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:18.420\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:20.740\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:20.740 --> 00:00:24.620\nToday's guest is Marvin Ellison, CEO of Lowe's.\n\n9\n00:00:24.620 --> 00:00:26.940\nNow, let me ask you a question.\n\n10\n00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:31.610\nHave you ever taken over in a position after the previous guy or gal left under\n\n11\n00:00:31.610 --> 00:00:33.020\nbad circumstances?\n\n12\n00:00:33.020 --> 00:00:38.150\nIf you have, then you know, those are some of the toughest situations to walk\n\n13\n00:00:38.150 --> 00:00:38.660\ninto.\n\n14\n00:00:38.660 --> 00:00:44.740\nNow Marvin is amazing for a lot of reasons, but get this in his 25-year career.\n\n15\n00:00:44.740 --> 00:00:50.550\nIn every new role, he has taken over for someone who's been fired or forced out\n\n16\n00:00:50.550 --> 00:00:50.580\n.\n\n17\n00:00:50.580 --> 00:00:54.780\nNow that's a man who's not afraid of a tough assignment.\n\n18\n00:00:54.780 --> 00:00:58.990\nMarvin was actually born as the son of sharecroppers, and he has risen through\n\n19\n00:00:58.990 --> 00:00:59.820\nthe ranks with\n\n20\n00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:02.100\na ton of courage over the years.\n\n21\n00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:06.430\nHe took the jobs other people didn't want because he knew that was how he could\n\n22\n00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:06.860\nprove\n\n23\n00:01:06.860 --> 00:01:08.700\nhis abilities.\n\n24\n00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:13.580\nMarvin is also one of the few African-American Fortune 500 CEOs in our country,\n\n25\n00:01:13.580 --> 00:01:14.100\nand I can't\n\n26\n00:01:14.100 --> 00:01:16.860\ntell you how honored I am to have him here.\n\n27\n00:01:16.860 --> 00:01:21.240\nLet's jump right in and see what happens when we're brave enough to tackle even\n\n28\n00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:21.580\nthe\n\n29\n00:01:21.580 --> 00:01:22.860\ntough assignments.\n\n30\n00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:32.220\nMarvin, this is all about learning how you lead.\n\n31\n00:01:32.220 --> 00:01:36.880\nI'd like to start out by hearing how you spent your early days as the new CEO\n\n32\n00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:37.820\nof Lowe's.\n\n33\n00:01:37.820 --> 00:01:43.750\nWell, David, as you know, I'd been in the home improvement industry for 12\n\n34\n00:01:43.750 --> 00:01:44.940\nyears working\n\n35\n00:01:44.940 --> 00:01:51.430\nfor the Home Depot, and then I took a Chairman CEO role in the turnaround of J\n\n36\n00:01:51.430 --> 00:01:52.980\nCPenney, which\n\n37\n00:01:52.980 --> 00:02:02.180\nI learned more from that experience than I did in my MBA program years prior.\n\n38\n00:02:02.180 --> 00:02:06.430\nBut I had a unique opportunity to come back into an industry that I love, which\n\n39\n00:02:06.430 --> 00:02:06.980\nwas Home\n\n40\n00:02:06.980 --> 00:02:08.700\nImprovement.\n\n41\n00:02:08.700 --> 00:02:13.720\nI did something different, and I learned from my transition from Home Depot to\n\n42\n00:02:13.720 --> 00:02:14.740\nJCPenney,\n\n43\n00:02:14.740 --> 00:02:18.760\nand that is I jumped immediately in because I felt it was important for me to\n\n44\n00:02:18.760 --> 00:02:19.420\nget a chance\n\n45\n00:02:19.420 --> 00:02:23.580\nto look at the pace of the business during the holiday season.\n\n46\n00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:28.100\nAnd so I had really no transition period between the two companies.\n\n47\n00:02:28.100 --> 00:02:34.630\nAnd in retrospect, that was probably not the best decision when you're shifting\n\n48\n00:02:34.630 --> 00:02:34.980\nnot only\n\n49\n00:02:34.980 --> 00:02:36.860\ncompanies, but industries.\n\n50\n00:02:36.860 --> 00:02:42.770\nSo when I decided to join Lowe's, I asked the board to give me a 30-day gap\n\n51\n00:02:42.770 --> 00:02:43.540\nbetween\n\n52\n00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:48.070\nleaving JCPenney and officially starting with Lowe's and doing that 30-day\n\n53\n00:02:48.070 --> 00:02:49.420\nperiod, I decided\n\n54\n00:02:49.420 --> 00:02:57.100\nto go out and try to hit all 15 geographic regions of the company, just as an\n\n55\n00:02:57.100 --> 00:02:58.460\nunannounced\n\n56\n00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:05.170\nbystander, visiting stores, observing, and just having casual conversation with\n\n57\n00:03:05.170 --> 00:03:06.180\nthe associates\n\n58\n00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:11.480\nand customers as I just browse around the different parts of the country\n\n59\n00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:12.820\ninteracting.\n\n60\n00:03:12.820 --> 00:03:18.680\nAnd I learned a tremendous amount about what was great about Lowe's, and that\n\n61\n00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:19.860\nwas primarily\n\n62\n00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:23.300\nthe dedicated men and women that worked in the stores and how they were working\n\n63\n00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:24.140\nand persevering\n\n64\n00:03:24.140 --> 00:03:29.270\nthrough so many limitations that a company our size should not have placed on\n\n65\n00:03:29.270 --> 00:03:30.300\nour associate\n\n66\n00:03:30.300 --> 00:03:34.340\nbase, but also identify a lot of shortcomings.\n\n67\n00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:39.460\nAnd so just imagine trying to get out within really turning to a six-week\n\n68\n00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:40.660\nperiod and trying\n\n69\n00:03:40.660 --> 00:03:44.850\nto visit all 15 geographic regions around the United States within that\n\n70\n00:03:44.850 --> 00:03:45.700\ntimeframe, but\n\n71\n00:03:45.700 --> 00:03:50.020\nit was an incredible lesson and learning process for me.\n\n72\n00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:55.670\nAnd from that, it allowed me to work with my newly developed leadership team to\n\n73\n00:03:55.670 --> 00:03:56.620\nlay out\n\n74\n00:03:56.620 --> 00:04:00.340\nour strategic framework on how we would transform the company.\n\n75\n00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:04.430\nYou know, Marvin, I understand that your first day when you went out into the\n\n76\n00:04:04.430 --> 00:04:05.300\nfield, there\n\n77\n00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:08.600\nwas actually a group at the headquarters who had a sign out there for you,\n\n78\n00:04:08.600 --> 00:04:09.460\nready to welcome\n\n79\n00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:10.460\nyou.\n\n80\n00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:12.460\nYou were out in the field.\n\n81\n00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:16.580\nSo you went straight to where the rubber meets the road, which is always a\n\n82\n00:04:16.580 --> 00:04:17.260\npowerful\n\n83\n00:04:17.260 --> 00:04:18.540\nthing to do.\n\n84\n00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:21.980\nDid you do that as well, not only to learn, but to shock the system and let\n\n85\n00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:22.540\nthem know\n\n86\n00:04:22.540 --> 00:04:27.200\nthat was what was really important to you in terms of who you need to focus on\n\n87\n00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:27.620\nand that\n\n88\n00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:29.140\nthere was a new sheriff in town?\n\n89\n00:04:29.140 --> 00:04:35.140\nNo, it really, I'll be honest with you, it was really my attempt just to learn.\n\n90\n00:04:35.140 --> 00:04:41.380\nI wanted my first day on the job to feel like the first day of any associate in\n\n91\n00:04:41.380 --> 00:04:42.540\nthe company.\n\n92\n00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:47.740\nAnd typically, their first day is in the stores trying to learn.\n\n93\n00:04:47.740 --> 00:04:53.270\nAnd to that point, you know, I had someone sent me a photo of a really a big\n\n94\n00:04:53.270 --> 00:04:54.500\ndigital sign\n\n95\n00:04:54.500 --> 00:04:59.270\nthat had at every entrance and they had a big photo of me, you know, welcoming\n\n96\n00:04:59.270 --> 00:04:59.580\nour new\n\n97\n00:04:59.580 --> 00:05:00.580\nCEO.\n\n98\n00:05:00.580 --> 00:05:05.370\nAnd I'm looking at that thinking, you know, that's a little ostentatious, you\n\n99\n00:05:05.370 --> 00:05:06.020\nknow, to\n\n100\n00:05:06.020 --> 00:05:07.700\nbe having a photo of it.\n\n101\n00:05:07.700 --> 00:05:10.820\nI hope the associates believe I had nothing to do with that.\n\n102\n00:05:10.820 --> 00:05:15.870\nBut I'm also thinking I have no intention on being in the office on my first\n\n103\n00:05:15.870 --> 00:05:16.460\nday.\n\n104\n00:05:16.460 --> 00:05:23.480\nAnd so when I communicated to the HR team that I would not physically be on the\n\n105\n00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:24.220\ncorporate\n\n106\n00:05:24.220 --> 00:05:29.740\ncampus, instead I wanted to go to a store and work at the protest because I\n\n107\n00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:30.540\nknew from\n\n108\n00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:35.220\nmy tours around the country that that was a huge opportunity that we had to\n\n109\n00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:36.460\nfigure out\n\n110\n00:05:36.460 --> 00:05:40.380\nand fix their first recommendation was what that's great.\n\n111\n00:05:40.380 --> 00:05:47.620\nWe'll send a photo crew, you know, with our PR team to kind of document your\n\n112\n00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:48.740\nentire first\n\n113\n00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:51.300\nday because we think it would be great to show to the associates.\n\n114\n00:05:51.300 --> 00:05:53.820\nAnd I told them, no, I don't want any cameras.\n\n115\n00:05:53.820 --> 00:05:57.260\nI don't want anyone from media PR present.\n\n116\n00:05:57.260 --> 00:06:00.860\nI just want to go and learn and I want to spend time with the associates.\n\n117\n00:06:00.860 --> 00:06:05.670\nI don't want them to be intimidated, you know, from answering questions and\n\n118\n00:06:05.670 --> 00:06:06.580\njust relaxing\n\n119\n00:06:06.580 --> 00:06:10.540\nand having, you know, good, you know, transparent candidate dialogue.\n\n120\n00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:16.300\nAnd so it really was to learn it was to try to engage with the associates.\n\n121\n00:06:16.300 --> 00:06:21.900\nAnd look, and you know my story, I started out in retail as a $4.35 an hour\n\n122\n00:06:21.900 --> 00:06:22.780\npart-time\n\n123\n00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:27.510\nemployee working for Target while I was going to the University of Memphis, you\n\n124\n00:06:27.510 --> 00:06:28.180\nknow, just\n\n125\n00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:32.980\nin an attempt to pay for books and put gas in my car and help pay to rent.\n\n126\n00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:37.780\nAnd that turned into, you know, a lifelong love affair with retail.\n\n127\n00:06:37.780 --> 00:06:41.160\nYou know, you know, you know, you know, those first six weeks at Loge, you\n\n128\n00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:42.060\nlearned a lot.\n\n129\n00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:44.260\nWhat was the biggest surprise that you uncovered?\n\n130\n00:06:44.260 --> 00:06:49.730\nWell, the biggest surprise is how over a period of time, the previous\n\n131\n00:06:49.730 --> 00:06:50.980\nmanagement team\n\n132\n00:06:50.980 --> 00:06:58.600\nhad unintentionally taken all of what I would call the incentive and the\n\n133\n00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.460\ndecision-making\n\n134\n00:07:00.460 --> 00:07:03.940\nand the courage away from the field team.\n\n135\n00:07:03.940 --> 00:07:06.780\nThey just, they felt like they had no empowerment.\n\n136\n00:07:06.780 --> 00:07:09.260\nI give you, I give you two great examples.\n\n137\n00:07:09.260 --> 00:07:14.700\nSo one day I show up in Bullhead City, Arizona.\n\n138\n00:07:14.700 --> 00:07:18.660\nAnd Bullhead City, Arizona is on the, is on the Arizona and Nevada border.\n\n139\n00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:20.940\nSo I pop into this store.\n\n140\n00:07:20.940 --> 00:07:25.540\nThe average household income of this marketplace is roughly $35,000 a year.\n\n141\n00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:32.590\nSo this is, this is not a high-end marketplace from a household income, but\n\n142\n00:07:32.590 --> 00:07:33.580\nthese are customers\n\n143\n00:07:33.580 --> 00:07:35.700\nthat depend on lows.\n\n144\n00:07:35.700 --> 00:07:41.460\nSo walking the store and the first thing I see is a group of associates setting\n\n145\n00:07:41.460 --> 00:07:42.740\nan in-cap\n\n146\n00:07:42.740 --> 00:07:44.740\nof deck stain.\n\n147\n00:07:44.740 --> 00:07:45.740\nThere's only one problem.\n\n148\n00:07:45.740 --> 00:07:47.460\nThere are no decks in Arizona.\n\n149\n00:07:47.460 --> 00:07:49.460\nIt's all concrete.\n\n150\n00:07:49.460 --> 00:07:53.060\nAnd so I walk up, I walk up to the associate who happened to be the store\n\n151\n00:07:53.060 --> 00:07:53.860\nmanager and I\n\n152\n00:07:53.860 --> 00:07:55.340\nsaid, \"Yeah, introduce myself.\"\n\n153\n00:07:55.340 --> 00:07:58.640\nSo to his shock, the new CEO was in his store.\n\n154\n00:07:58.640 --> 00:07:59.640\nAnd I said, \"Mash, your question.\"\n\n155\n00:07:59.640 --> 00:08:03.200\nI said, \"I've been out of home improvement for about four years, but the last\n\n156\n00:08:03.200 --> 00:08:03.600\ntime I\n\n157\n00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:06.780\nwas in Arizona, I never remember seeing a deck.\n\n158\n00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:09.620\nI thought all of the patios were concrete.\"\n\n159\n00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:10.620\nHe said, \"Well, that's right, Marvin.\n\n160\n00:08:10.620 --> 00:08:12.540\nWe have no decks in this market.\"\n\n161\n00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:15.580\nI said, \"Well, why are we setting an in-cap of deck stain?\"\n\n162\n00:08:15.580 --> 00:08:17.180\nHe said, \"Well, that's the planogram.\"\n\n163\n00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:20.420\nHe said, \"The planogram came from the corporate office and we're going to set\n\n164\n00:08:20.420 --> 00:08:21.260\nthe planogram.\"\n\n165\n00:08:21.260 --> 00:08:27.510\nI said, \"Even if you know as the store manager that the product will not sell\n\n166\n00:08:27.510 --> 00:08:28.500\nand customers\n\n167\n00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:29.500\nwon't buy it.\"\n\n168\n00:08:29.500 --> 00:08:31.740\nHe said, \"Marvin, you don't understand.\n\n169\n00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:34.980\nHere at lows, we do what we're told in the stores.\n\n170\n00:08:34.980 --> 00:08:39.400\nAnd if I get a store visit from my district manager, from someone at the\n\n171\n00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:40.620\ncorporate office\n\n172\n00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:44.100\nand we're not set to planogram, I will get in trouble.\n\n173\n00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:48.260\nSo we're going to set this planogram as prescribed.\"\n\n174\n00:08:48.260 --> 00:08:52.420\nSo, obviously, I took note of that.\n\n175\n00:08:52.420 --> 00:08:57.340\nSo, the next day I'm in Austin, Texas.\n\n176\n00:08:57.340 --> 00:09:03.770\nIt is 112 degrees outside and I walk in the store and the first thing I see in\n\n177\n00:09:03.770 --> 00:09:04.420\nthe patio\n\n178\n00:09:04.420 --> 00:09:08.500\nset is a fire pit.\n\n179\n00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:12.980\nSo I find the store manager and to my great fortune, the district manager was\n\n180\n00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:13.580\nactually\n\n181\n00:09:13.580 --> 00:09:18.850\nin the store, introduced myself and I asked the very basic question, \"Why are\n\n182\n00:09:18.850 --> 00:09:19.660\nwe setting\n\n183\n00:09:19.660 --> 00:09:24.140\na display with a fire pit and it is 112 degrees outside?\"\n\n184\n00:09:24.140 --> 00:09:29.540\nAnd as you can imagine, the answer was, \"Because it's the planogram.\"\n\n185\n00:09:29.540 --> 00:09:34.490\nAnd so from that, it became painfully apparent to me that we had literally\n\n186\n00:09:34.490 --> 00:09:35.460\ntaken all the\n\n187\n00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:41.560\nempowerment away from our frontline leaders to think and operate in a way that\n\n188\n00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:42.580\nbest served\n\n189\n00:09:42.580 --> 00:09:46.660\nthe customer and obviously served the company and our shareholders.\n\n190\n00:09:46.660 --> 00:09:52.540\nAnd we had literally created wind-up toys where they did what they were told.\n\n191\n00:09:52.540 --> 00:09:53.780\nWe didn't want them to think.\n\n192\n00:09:53.780 --> 00:09:55.700\nWe didn't want them to process.\n\n193\n00:09:55.700 --> 00:10:00.710\nAnd so from that, David, we created what we call and we shamefully stole from\n\n194\n00:10:00.710 --> 00:10:01.180\nother\n\n195\n00:10:01.180 --> 00:10:04.260\ncompanies, Lowe's University.\n\n196\n00:10:04.260 --> 00:10:08.580\nAnd in Lowe's University, we made a decision that we were going to bring in\n\n197\n00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:09.380\nevery single\n\n198\n00:10:09.380 --> 00:10:16.420\nstore manager, all 2,200 of them, over an 18-month period and give them one\n\n199\n00:10:16.420 --> 00:10:17.740\nweek of cultural\n\n200\n00:10:17.740 --> 00:10:21.380\nrefreshment on how we expect you to lead at Lowe's.\n\n201\n00:10:21.380 --> 00:10:25.340\nAnd in every one of those sessions, we did them once a week and sometimes more\n\n202\n00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:25.820\nthan one\n\n203\n00:10:25.820 --> 00:10:30.730\nsession within a week, I would go down and I would take one hour every week and\n\n204\n00:10:30.730 --> 00:10:30.900\ndo a\n\n205\n00:10:30.900 --> 00:10:36.250\ntraining session on effective leadership and part of my leadership lesson was\n\n206\n00:10:36.250 --> 00:10:36.900\nsharing\n\n207\n00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:42.470\nthose two examples and challenging the team on what it takes to be a leader and\n\n208\n00:10:42.470 --> 00:10:43.460\nthe courage\n\n209\n00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:48.130\nof being empowered and how we would have their backs if they made a decision\n\n210\n00:10:48.130 --> 00:10:49.020\nthat they truly\n\n211\n00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:53.640\nbelieve was in the best interest of the customer and best interest of competing\n\n212\n00:10:53.640 --> 00:10:55.100\nin the marketplace.\n\n213\n00:10:55.100 --> 00:10:59.580\nAnd we cycled through all of our leaders and what was so interesting is I would\n\n214\n00:10:59.580 --> 00:10:59.900\nbe in a\n\n215\n00:10:59.900 --> 00:11:04.060\nclass and I would have a store manager there who had three years of tenure,\n\n216\n00:11:04.060 --> 00:11:04.880\nthree months\n\n217\n00:11:04.880 --> 00:11:07.260\nof tenure and 27 years of tenure.\n\n218\n00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:08.600\nSo we did this on purpose.\n\n219\n00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:14.360\nWe did not want to do it by tenure or in any way, segregating people by the\n\n220\n00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:14.940\ntime they\n\n221\n00:11:14.940 --> 00:11:15.940\nspent in Lowe's.\n\n222\n00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:26.590\nWe felt it was powerful to create classes that had a very broad list of people\n\n223\n00:11:26.590 --> 00:11:27.220\nbut not\n\n224\n00:11:27.220 --> 00:11:32.980\nonly that but people who had differing time frames of tenure and time with the\n\n225\n00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:33.620\ncompany\n\n226\n00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:37.600\nto foster really interesting conversation and debate within the classes and\n\n227\n00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:38.480\nthat was part\n\n228\n00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:43.240\nof our transformation from a cultural and from a leadership perspective.\n\n229\n00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:44.400\nThat's absolutely fantastic.\n\n230\n00:11:44.400 --> 00:11:47.360\nAnd you know, so Marvin, you've been there now a couple of years and you've\n\n231\n00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:48.040\nspent a pretty\n\n232\n00:11:48.040 --> 00:11:53.480\ntough time obviously with all the actions that have happened last year or so.\n\n233\n00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.760\nWhat are you doing now to stay connected to the stores?\n\n234\n00:11:56.760 --> 00:12:01.920\nWell, I've learned a couple of lessons starting out as an hourly associate.\n\n235\n00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:08.260\nI remember vividly when I would come in and I would clock in at the time clock\n\n236\n00:12:08.260 --> 00:12:09.200\nat Target\n\n237\n00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.870\nand posted by the time clock was an org structure with photos of the CEO and\n\n238\n00:12:14.870 --> 00:12:16.080\nthe executive\n\n239\n00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:17.600\nleadership team.\n\n240\n00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.710\nAnd I would look at that photo and that org chart every day and I had no\n\n241\n00:12:21.710 --> 00:12:23.480\npersonal connection\n\n242\n00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.960\nwith any person on that organizational chart.\n\n243\n00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.360\nI never saw them in person.\n\n244\n00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:30.200\nI never heard their voice.\n\n245\n00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.240\nI never communicated with them.\n\n246\n00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:35.800\nAnd as a kid in college working hard, trying to make ends meet, I just would\n\n247\n00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:36.440\nsit back and\n\n248\n00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:42.270\nwonder how would it be if an hourly associate like me, someone who had ideas,\n\n249\n00:12:42.270 --> 00:12:43.200\nsomeone who\n\n250\n00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.050\nhad suggestions, could actually get access to someone sitting in one of those\n\n251\n00:12:48.050 --> 00:12:48.800\npositions\n\n252\n00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:53.680\nof influence with a listen and what would I learn about them.\n\n253\n00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:58.730\nAnd so from that, I've tried to create an environment where I eliminate the\n\n254\n00:12:58.730 --> 00:12:59.600\ncommunication\n\n255\n00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.160\nfilters between myself and the frontline team.\n\n256\n00:13:03.160 --> 00:13:05.760\nAnd so a couple of ways that I do that.\n\n257\n00:13:05.760 --> 00:13:12.700\nFirst, every single Friday, I have a personal message that I give to the\n\n258\n00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:13.760\ncompany.\n\n259\n00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:18.360\nEvery associate in the company, including our associates and our buying offices\n\n260\n00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:19.400\nin China\n\n261\n00:13:19.400 --> 00:13:22.600\nand in our offices in India.\n\n262\n00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.520\nAnd the message ranges from five to ten minutes.\n\n263\n00:13:25.520 --> 00:13:30.080\nAnd what I talk about are the events of the week that impact the company.\n\n264\n00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:34.050\nI talk about people I've met who have done outstanding customer service, I\n\n265\n00:13:34.050 --> 00:13:34.760\nshare those\n\n266\n00:13:34.760 --> 00:13:35.760\nstories.\n\n267\n00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:41.280\nI talk about things in the news that are relevant to our associates.\n\n268\n00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.440\nBut I just have a personal conversation with them.\n\n269\n00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.720\nAnd within that, I share my email address.\n\n270\n00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:53.320\nSo if they have a question or if they have an issue that's not being addressed,\n\n271\n00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:53.400\nthey\n\n272\n00:13:53.400 --> 00:13:55.640\nknow how to reach me directly.\n\n273\n00:13:55.640 --> 00:13:59.960\nAnd I don't have anyone that manages those emails from me.\n\n274\n00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:03.960\nI'll look at them, I'll afford them to the appropriate person to take a look at\n\n275\n00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:04.240\n.\n\n276\n00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.980\nAnd trust me, my associates have now keenly become aware of how to reach me\n\n277\n00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:08.560\nbecause I\n\n278\n00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:12.400\nhear from them every single day, which is exactly what my intention was.\n\n279\n00:14:12.400 --> 00:14:18.910\nSo that's number one, number two, is on a monthly basis, I do a televised town\n\n280\n00:14:18.910 --> 00:14:19.520\nhall.\n\n281\n00:14:19.520 --> 00:14:24.120\nAnd obviously now it's virtual, where we have people submit questions in or I\n\n282\n00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.840\ntake questions\n\n283\n00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:25.840\nlive.\n\n284\n00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:26.840\nI do it for an hour.\n\n285\n00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.050\nI don't see the questions in advance because I want to have an authentic\n\n286\n00:14:31.050 --> 00:14:32.320\nconversation with\n\n287\n00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:33.840\nthe associates.\n\n288\n00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.640\nWhatever they ask, if I can fit it in to the allotted time, I answer it and we\n\n289\n00:14:37.640 --> 00:14:38.080\njust have\n\n290\n00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.280\ngood back and forth dialogue.\n\n291\n00:14:40.280 --> 00:14:45.720\nBut I've learned, David, even if the answer is no, as long as you're answering\n\n292\n00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:46.720\nthe questions\n\n293\n00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:51.500\nand you're being authentic and you're having open dialogue, associates\n\n294\n00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:52.880\nappreciate that.\n\n295\n00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:56.780\nAs we were talking a little bit earlier, Marvin, before you joined Lowe's, you\n\n296\n00:14:56.780 --> 00:14:57.840\nwere the Chairman\n\n297\n00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:59.400\nCEO of JC Penney.\n\n298\n00:14:59.400 --> 00:15:01.680\nAnd you let a major turnaround there.\n\n299\n00:15:01.680 --> 00:15:08.580\nAnd you took JC Penney from losing, I think, $5.64 a share to your making $0.22\n\n300\n00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:09.880\na share.\n\n301\n00:15:09.880 --> 00:15:12.720\nYou generate positive cash flow, pay down a lot of debt.\n\n302\n00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.320\nYou did this all in four years.\n\n303\n00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.400\nYou're having this great success.\n\n304\n00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:21.120\nAs a leader, what drove you to make a decision to leave at that time?\n\n305\n00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.240\nBecause you were on a roll.\n\n306\n00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:25.840\nDavid, it's a great question.\n\n307\n00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:26.840\nIt's a long story.\n\n308\n00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:30.240\nI'll give you this short version.\n\n309\n00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:37.840\nAt my JC Penney, I'm totally committed to the continued turnaround.\n\n310\n00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:44.050\nMy wife and I, and my, at the time, 16-year-old daughter, we love living in\n\n311\n00:15:44.050 --> 00:15:44.880\nDallas.\n\n312\n00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:49.840\nMy son had relocated and he was going to school college in Texas.\n\n313\n00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:52.800\nAnd so we were planning roots.\n\n314\n00:15:52.800 --> 00:16:00.260\nAnd all of a sudden, I get contacted by one of the new board members who's\n\n315\n00:16:00.260 --> 00:16:01.040\nleading the\n\n316\n00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:04.280\nsearch for the new CEO.\n\n317\n00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:09.650\nThis is a board member whom I'd work with in the past who, ironically enough,\n\n318\n00:16:09.650 --> 00:16:10.120\nwas an\n\n319\n00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:11.120\nactivist investor.\n\n320\n00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.210\nSo he took a position in the Home Depot years prior and I had a chance to meet\n\n321\n00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:15.760\nhim.\n\n322\n00:16:15.760 --> 00:16:17.800\nHe had a chance to meet me.\n\n323\n00:16:17.800 --> 00:16:22.400\nAnd from that, there was a lot of mutual respect for both of us.\n\n324\n00:16:22.400 --> 00:16:28.390\nAnd to be quite honest with you, when he first reached out to me regarding the\n\n325\n00:16:28.390 --> 00:16:29.120\nopportunity,\n\n326\n00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.240\nI wasn't interested.\n\n327\n00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.080\nThat wasn't interested because it wasn't part of my plan.\n\n328\n00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:39.720\nMy plan was to come to JC Penney to do all I could to help turn the business\n\n329\n00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:40.720\naround and\n\n330\n00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:47.820\ntry to work to be as much of a blessing for the employees of the company\n\n331\n00:16:47.820 --> 00:16:49.160\nbecause they'd\n\n332\n00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:54.580\ngone through difficult periods with a CEO to really put the business on the\n\n333\n00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:55.280\nbrink in\n\n334\n00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:57.240\nprevious years.\n\n335\n00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:02.080\nAnd I had made a decision not to even discuss this low opportunity with my wife\n\n336\n00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:02.800\nbecause I\n\n337\n00:17:02.800 --> 00:17:07.880\ndidn't want her to think that we had the potential from uprooting the family\n\n338\n00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:08.640\nagain.\n\n339\n00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.710\nAnd so the short version is my wife and I have now been together for, will be\n\n340\n00:17:11.710 --> 00:17:12.280\ncelebrating\n\n341\n00:17:12.280 --> 00:17:14.640\nour 30th wedding anniversary this year.\n\n342\n00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.520\nSo we've been together for a long time.\n\n343\n00:17:16.520 --> 00:17:17.520\nCongrats.\n\n344\n00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:18.520\nThank you.\n\n345\n00:17:18.520 --> 00:17:20.520\nAnd so, you know, I never keep anything from her.\n\n346\n00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:27.200\nSo I finally decided to let her know, look, there's an opportunity at lows.\n\n347\n00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.160\nI don't want you to get concerned.\n\n348\n00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.480\nI'm not going to pursue it.\n\n349\n00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:38.650\nYou know, I want to be committed to seeing through this transformation here at\n\n350\n00:17:38.650 --> 00:17:39.640\nJC Penney.\n\n351\n00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.920\nSo don't get concerned about the family being uprooted.\n\n352\n00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.000\nAnd so she looked at me and she had a very interesting response.\n\n353\n00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.120\nShe said, well, I guess, I guess you've changed your commitment and you've\n\n354\n00:17:52.120 --> 00:17:54.600\nchanged the mission\n\n355\n00:17:54.600 --> 00:17:58.800\nthat we've talked about that we're on in this life that we live in.\n\n356\n00:17:58.800 --> 00:17:59.800\nI said, what do you mean?\n\n357\n00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:05.240\nShe said, well, you've always said that you will be driven, your career will be\n\n358\n00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:05.760\ndriven\n\n359\n00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:10.640\nby going to the place where you can have the greatest impact on the largest\n\n360\n00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:11.320\nnumber of\n\n361\n00:18:11.320 --> 00:18:12.320\npeople.\n\n362\n00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:19.280\nAnd she said, last time I checked, lows has more employees, larger investment\n\n363\n00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:20.000\nbase, more\n\n364\n00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.080\nshareholders and a greater market presence.\n\n365\n00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:28.550\nSo don't you believe that you can have a greater impact on a larger number of\n\n366\n00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:29.120\npeople\n\n367\n00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:31.920\nat lows than you can at JC Penney?\n\n368\n00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.600\nAnd this is from a woman who had no desire to move.\n\n369\n00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:35.600\nWow.\n\n370\n00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:36.600\nThat's incredible.\n\n371\n00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:39.640\nAnd I said to her, I said, I was sharing your right.\n\n372\n00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:41.120\nThat's what we've said.\n\n373\n00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:42.600\nAnd I said, I didn't consider that.\n\n374\n00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:44.520\nI was more concerned about the family.\n\n375\n00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:47.400\nAnd she said, let me worry about the family.\n\n376\n00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.040\nYou look into this opportunity.\n\n377\n00:18:50.040 --> 00:18:53.480\nWe'll pray about it.\n\n378\n00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:59.540\nWe'll be led by our religious faith, but let's understand what we're committed\n\n379\n00:18:59.540 --> 00:18:59.920\nto.\n\n380\n00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:03.350\nAnd our commitment is being the greatest blessing to the largest number of\n\n381\n00:19:03.350 --> 00:19:03.920\npeople.\n\n382\n00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:08.440\nAnd from that, we decided to take a look at the opportunity.\n\n383\n00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:09.720\nAnd here I am.\n\n384\n00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:14.960\nI used to work at Pepsi and we absolutely fought Coke Day in and Day out.\n\n385\n00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:19.640\nDid you have any trepidation going back to the home improvement industry to\n\n386\n00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:20.200\nlows and\n\n387\n00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.280\ncompeting against all the people you knew at Home Depot?\n\n388\n00:19:23.280 --> 00:19:25.560\nThe short answer is yes.\n\n389\n00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:32.520\nIt was part of the reason why it was never part of my long term plan to end up\n\n390\n00:19:32.520 --> 00:19:32.760\nat a\n\n391\n00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:33.960\ncompetitive.\n\n392\n00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.600\nBut I'll be very honest with you.\n\n393\n00:19:35.600 --> 00:19:40.240\nI had that conversation, obviously, with my wife as well.\n\n394\n00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:41.520\nAnd we talked about it.\n\n395\n00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:42.760\nAnd here's the reality.\n\n396\n00:19:42.760 --> 00:19:45.560\nI gave Home Depot 12 great years.\n\n397\n00:19:45.560 --> 00:19:48.080\nI have lifelong friends there.\n\n398\n00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:54.570\nAnd when Home Depot made the decision in the CEO transition to move in a\n\n399\n00:19:54.570 --> 00:19:56.080\ndifferent direction,\n\n400\n00:19:56.080 --> 00:20:01.640\nI went to the Chairman's CEO and asked to allow me to stay.\n\n401\n00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:07.570\nAnd I was willing to stay and not pursue any other opportunities if I could\n\n402\n00:20:07.570 --> 00:20:08.200\njust have\n\n403\n00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:13.840\nsome level of role expansion just so I could make a greater contribution.\n\n404\n00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:18.310\nAnd through every attempt I made to try to find a way to stay, it just didn't\n\n405\n00:20:18.310 --> 00:20:19.160\nwork out.\n\n406\n00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:25.430\nSo my departure from the Home Depot was obviously my decision, but it was\n\n407\n00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:27.000\nsomething that I\n\n408\n00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:33.860\ndid begrudgingly because I love the people more so than anything and I wanted\n\n409\n00:20:33.860 --> 00:20:35.280\nto be there.\n\n410\n00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:42.200\nSo as I process going back and competing against a former company that I love\n\n411\n00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:43.440\nso much, it came\n\n412\n00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:45.720\ndown to a very simple analogy.\n\n413\n00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.040\nI grew up as the mill child of seven kids.\n\n414\n00:20:49.040 --> 00:20:53.950\nI had two older brothers and we would go outside almost every day in the summer\n\n415\n00:20:53.950 --> 00:20:55.040\nand we'd compete\n\n416\n00:20:55.040 --> 00:20:56.360\non the basketball court.\n\n417\n00:20:56.360 --> 00:20:59.960\nWe'd compete in a lot of different sports.\n\n418\n00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:04.870\nI still loved them, but they were competitors when we were out there on the\n\n419\n00:21:04.870 --> 00:21:06.040\nfield of play.\n\n420\n00:21:06.040 --> 00:21:12.050\nI had two sisters or three sisters rather and we would always compete playing\n\n421\n00:21:12.050 --> 00:21:12.640\nchess.\n\n422\n00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:16.860\nWe'd go at it, we'd leave the chess board set and we'd come back and finish it\n\n423\n00:21:16.860 --> 00:21:17.160\non the\n\n424\n00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:18.240\nweekend.\n\n425\n00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:24.290\nI still love them, I still think the world love them, but competition is great\n\n426\n00:21:24.290 --> 00:21:25.000\nand it's\n\n427\n00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.000\nnot personal.\n\n428\n00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.040\nYou started out as this 435 hourly at Target.\n\n429\n00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:34.480\nYou come from a very humble background, you just talked about a large family.\n\n430\n00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:39.680\nHow does this affect your thinking today, the background, your childhood?\n\n431\n00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:47.420\nI think in a couple of ways, my dad is my hero and I'm blessed and he's still\n\n432\n00:21:47.420 --> 00:21:48.120\nalive\n\n433\n00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:49.120\nand with me.\n\n434\n00:21:49.120 --> 00:21:54.680\nHe's had some health issues, but he is doing well and I'm proud that I can pick\n\n435\n00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:55.280\nup the\n\n436\n00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:57.840\nphone and call him and I can go in to see him.\n\n437\n00:21:57.840 --> 00:22:01.920\nThe reason why that's a relevant point is my dad never graduated from high\n\n438\n00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:02.560\nschool.\n\n439\n00:22:02.560 --> 00:22:07.120\nHe was raised by his great aunt and uncle and they were raised on the farm.\n\n440\n00:22:07.120 --> 00:22:11.590\nThey were sharecroppers and that's all he knew, but he had desires to do a lot\n\n441\n00:22:11.590 --> 00:22:12.160\nmore,\n\n442\n00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.910\nbut he ultimately had to drop out of high school because his great uncle became\n\n443\n00:22:15.910 --> 00:22:16.400\nill,\n\n444\n00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:21.730\nhe had to get the crops in and that weighed more on the relevance of the family\n\n445\n00:22:21.730 --> 00:22:22.600\nthan him\n\n446\n00:22:22.600 --> 00:22:25.920\nstaying in school and getting a high school diploma.\n\n447\n00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.110\nHe ultimately met my mother, they got married, started family and he never\n\n448\n00:22:29.110 --> 00:22:29.720\ndecided to go\n\n449\n00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:30.720\nback.\n\n450\n00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.660\nBut this is a man along with my mother who raised seven kids and when I was\n\n451\n00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.440\nborn, they\n\n452\n00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:39.080\nwere sharecroppers.\n\n453\n00:22:39.080 --> 00:22:46.640\nWe're not talking about owning a farm, we're talking about the classic Jim Crow\n\n454\n00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:47.880\nera sharecropping\n\n455\n00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:56.630\nwhere you are leasing land, you're borrowing money to buy seed fertilizer, you\n\n456\n00:22:56.630 --> 00:22:57.000\n're putting\n\n457\n00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.620\nyour labor in and at the end of the season, you never get out of debt because\n\n458\n00:23:01.620 --> 00:23:02.260\nyou never\n\n459\n00:23:02.260 --> 00:23:06.790\nmake enough to pay for the lease land, you never make enough to pay for the\n\n460\n00:23:06.790 --> 00:23:07.400\nseed and\n\n461\n00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.800\nfertilizer that you borrowed and so you're in perpetual debt and it's almost\n\n462\n00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:13.440\nyour type\n\n463\n00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.320\nof indentured servitude.\n\n464\n00:23:17.320 --> 00:23:21.920\nThat's what my parents were doing for a living when I was born in 1965 and so\n\n465\n00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:22.680\nthe reason why\n\n466\n00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:27.840\nthat is relevant is because my dad ultimately worked his way from the field\n\n467\n00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:29.000\nbecause he found\n\n468\n00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:34.080\nout that he could sell and he started selling life insurance and back then the\n\n469\n00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:35.000\nlife insurance\n\n470\n00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.110\nindustry was very segregated and so you could only sell he could in the black\n\n471\n00:23:39.110 --> 00:23:39.920\ncommunities\n\n472\n00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:44.720\ndoor to door but he had a great gift of gab, he was a handsome guy and he was\n\n473\n00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:46.120\nreally good\n\n474\n00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:51.270\nat selling and so he worked his way from the cotton fields from sharecropper to\n\n475\n00:23:51.270 --> 00:23:51.960\nbeing\n\n476\n00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:57.640\nan insurance salesman to owning his own little really small agency and helped\n\n477\n00:23:57.640 --> 00:23:59.160\nus to move from\n\n478\n00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:06.070\npoverty to lower middle class but ultimately we fell on hard economic times and\n\n479\n00:24:06.070 --> 00:24:06.680\nI remember\n\n480\n00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:11.640\nat one point in my life and this is not an exaggeration for almost three years\n\n481\n00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:12.360\nhe worked\n\n482\n00:24:12.360 --> 00:24:17.800\nthree jobs. He worked as an insurance agent, he worked in an overnight cleaning\n\n483\n00:24:17.800 --> 00:24:18.200\ncrew at\n\n484\n00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:24.540\na local supermarket and he worked the lunch hour at a Ramanah Inn as a bus boy.\n\n485\n00:24:24.540 --> 00:24:24.760\nHe did\n\n486\n00:24:24.760 --> 00:24:28.540\nthat for almost three years almost killed himself but he did that because he\n\n487\n00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:29.040\nrefused\n\n488\n00:24:29.040 --> 00:24:33.790\nto take government assistance. He felt like that he was an able-bodied man and\n\n489\n00:24:33.790 --> 00:24:34.120\nif he was\n\n490\n00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:38.640\nable to go get up and go to work then he felt that others deserved the\n\n491\n00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.080\ngovernment assistance\n\n492\n00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:44.020\nbecause as an able-bodied man he wanted to provide for his families so why is\n\n493\n00:24:44.020 --> 00:24:44.760\nthat relevant\n\n494\n00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:50.940\nto your question? Because when I go out to the stores and I see associates\n\n495\n00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:52.400\nloading trucks,\n\n496\n00:24:52.400 --> 00:25:00.460\npushing carts, unloading trucks, mopping the floor, I see my parents. I see\n\n497\n00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:02.080\nindividuals\n\n498\n00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:07.850\nwho are trying to raise kids, make ends meet by taking on any job they can find\n\n499\n00:25:07.850 --> 00:25:08.560\nthat is\n\n500\n00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:16.720\nhonest and that allows them to do their part to help their families survive. I\n\n501\n00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.040\nhave an\n\n502\n00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:22.280\nenormous amount of respect for all of these associates that I have at all\n\n503\n00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:23.520\nlevels because\n\n504\n00:25:23.520 --> 00:25:28.640\nthey remind me of my parents. They remind me of me, unloading trucks and mo\n\n505\n00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:29.600\npping floors\n\n506\n00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:35.360\nand driving trucks and all the jobs I've had over my career and so I have a lot\n\n507\n00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:36.080\nof respect\n\n508\n00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:39.600\nfor what they have to say. I have a lot of respect for the life that they're\n\n509\n00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:40.320\nliving. It's one\n\n510\n00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:44.570\nof the reasons why we try to be philanthropic as a company. It's also one of\n\n511\n00:25:44.570 --> 00:25:45.360\nthe reasons\n\n512\n00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:52.270\nwhy we paid out over $800 million this year in special bonuses and financial\n\n513\n00:25:52.270 --> 00:25:53.360\nassistance\n\n514\n00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:58.970\nspecifically for our early associates because I really and truly understand the\n\n515\n00:25:58.970 --> 00:25:59.440\nlife that\n\n516\n00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:05.860\nthey're living because I lived it for the majority of my life seeing my parents\n\n517\n00:26:05.860 --> 00:26:06.880\nstruggle and having\n\n518\n00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.760\nmy own personal struggles and I am glad that that's part of my life journey\n\n519\n00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:13.360\nbecause it gives me\n\n520\n00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:16.240\ngreat perspective sitting in the current position that I'm in.\n\n521\n00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:21.520\nYou know Marvin, that story really touches my heart because my mom and dad came\n\n522\n00:26:21.520 --> 00:26:22.160\nup in very\n\n523\n00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.420\nhumble background. I always remember going down to our stores at Pizza Taco\n\n524\n00:26:25.420 --> 00:26:26.400\nBell and KFC and I see\n\n525\n00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.080\nmy mom and dad. They had a high school education. They worked their tail off.\n\n526\n00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:31.120\nWe lived in a trailer\n\n527\n00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:36.700\ncoming up but man they worked their tail off and these people know their stuff.\n\n528\n00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:37.200\nIf you just\n\n529\n00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:43.010\nlisten to them you can gain a lot so I really love that story. Marvin, you\n\n530\n00:26:43.010 --> 00:26:44.720\ntalked about authenticity\n\n531\n00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:50.500\nin terms of your communication. It's authenticity is a big buzzword these days.\n\n532\n00:26:50.500 --> 00:26:52.720\nWhen did you get\n\n533\n00:26:54.560 --> 00:26:58.500\nthe sense of the importance of authenticity of being true to yourself as a\n\n534\n00:26:58.500 --> 00:26:59.120\nleader?\n\n535\n00:26:59.120 --> 00:27:04.880\nDavid, it's a great question and I have to go back a lot of years but this is a\n\n536\n00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:05.680\nstory that I've\n\n537\n00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:10.580\nshared numerous times in management training classes. I was working for Target\n\n538\n00:27:10.580 --> 00:27:11.760\nat the time. I was\n\n539\n00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:18.160\na store security manager and I was in Memphis, Tennessee and I happened to be\n\n540\n00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:19.520\nin a new store\n\n541\n00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:24.590\nwe had just opened and it was myself and three peers in the same position. We\n\n542\n00:27:24.590 --> 00:27:24.800\nwere\n\n543\n00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:28.560\ngoing through a series of audits to make sure that the stores operating\n\n544\n00:27:28.560 --> 00:27:32.720\nprocedures were being followed. We were taking a break so we're in one of the\n\n545\n00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.080\noffices and what\n\n546\n00:27:34.080 --> 00:27:41.040\nas typically happens when four people taking a break at that level, we were\n\n547\n00:27:41.040 --> 00:27:42.000\njust complaining\n\n548\n00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.480\nabout everything that the company was doing wrong. We had issues with pay and\n\n549\n00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:47.200\nbenefits and\n\n550\n00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:53.270\ncompensation, we had issues with systems, we had all types of concerns and we\n\n551\n00:27:53.270 --> 00:27:54.160\nwere there just\n\n552\n00:27:54.160 --> 00:28:00.960\nventing about how things should be a lot better and within a couple of minutes\n\n553\n00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:01.680\nof us kind of\n\n554\n00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:07.480\ncommiserating in the office the phone rings and someone alerts us that the vice\n\n555\n00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:08.080\npresident for\n\n556\n00:28:08.080 --> 00:28:12.330\nour function has showed up in the store on the now and this is a true story and\n\n557\n00:28:12.330 --> 00:28:13.200\nhe wanted to come\n\n558\n00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.520\nin and meet us because he found out I got four people from my department in the\n\n559\n00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:18.000\nstore. What a\n\n560\n00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.680\ngreat opportunity for me to do a quick feedback session. So he comes in and he\n\n561\n00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:24.480\nmeets us and\n\n562\n00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:28.850\nintroduces himself and we're like we're totally stunned because Memphis was way\n\n563\n00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:30.000\noff the beaten path\n\n564\n00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:35.120\nand the corporate office was Minneapolis, Minnesota and so he was there and the\n\n565\n00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:36.000\nfirst question he\n\n566\n00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.560\nasked after introducing himself was, \"Look, give me some feedback on how I can\n\n567\n00:28:40.560 --> 00:28:41.680\nhelp. What's working,\n\n568\n00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.440\nwhat's not. I just want to take advantage of being here to understand if there\n\n569\n00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:46.720\nare any issues\n\n570\n00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:50.150\nthat I can address for you.\" And of course, I mean we got issues fresh on my\n\n571\n00:28:50.150 --> 00:28:50.960\nmind. We just\n\n572\n00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:55.780\nspent the last 30 minutes listing out a litany of issues that we were concerned\n\n573\n00:28:55.780 --> 00:28:56.560\nwith and before I\n\n574\n00:28:56.560 --> 00:29:01.250\ncould say anything, my peers jumped out and said, \"No, things are great. We\n\n575\n00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:02.320\nlove working here.\n\n576\n00:29:02.320 --> 00:29:08.800\nThank you for all that the company is doing to make this a great company for us\n\n577\n00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:09.200\nto work.\"\n\n578\n00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.360\nAnd I'm thinking to myself, \"Well, that's not true, but these guys were more\n\n579\n00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:15.520\ntenured than I was,\n\n580\n00:29:15.520 --> 00:29:19.520\nso I figured that maybe they were just being more politically astute than me,\n\n581\n00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:20.240\nso I just probably\n\n582\n00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:26.080\nshould shut up and just listen.\" But they kept pointing on and he kept asking\n\n583\n00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:26.800\nand no one would\n\n584\n00:29:26.800 --> 00:29:29.960\ngive him feedback and I just couldn't take any longer. And I just raised my\n\n585\n00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:30.560\nhand and said,\n\n586\n00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:35.760\n\"Look, I got one issue.\" And I said, \"There's a new check acceptance system\n\n587\n00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:36.640\nthat is really not\n\n588\n00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.960\nworking. We've gotten a lot of customer complaints and I'm not sure that you're\n\n589\n00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:42.880\naware, but I'm\n\n590\n00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.200\nconcerned that if we don't address this, we're going to lose customers.\" And he\n\n591\n00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:48.240\nwanted more\n\n592\n00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.560\ninformation, so I shared more information. I gave him more examples. And he\n\n593\n00:29:51.560 --> 00:29:52.400\npaused for a second. He\n\n594\n00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.120\nsaid, \"Let me make a phone call.\" So he turned around and made a phone call and\n\n595\n00:29:56.120 --> 00:29:57.120\nmy three peers gave\n\n596\n00:29:57.120 --> 00:30:00.050\nme the evil eye because they're thinking, \"You've gotten this all in trouble.\n\n597\n00:30:00.050 --> 00:30:01.600\nYou're telling this guy\n\n598\n00:30:01.600 --> 00:30:04.080\nabout this issue.\" And he turns around and he said, \"Well, look, a couple of\n\n599\n00:30:04.080 --> 00:30:06.160\nthings.\" He said,\n\n600\n00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:11.200\n\"I just made a call. I found out that this system that you're concerned about\n\n601\n00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:12.400\nis actually a pilot.\n\n602\n00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:16.880\nAnd I just called the corporate officer and asked him to shut it down until we\n\n603\n00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:18.560\ncan learn more about\n\n604\n00:30:18.560 --> 00:30:22.320\nthe negative customer implications.\" And he looked at me and he said, \"Marvin,\n\n605\n00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:27.670\nI've been out visiting stores all week and you're the first person to have the\n\n606\n00:30:27.670 --> 00:30:28.880\ncourage to tell me\n\n607\n00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:34.480\nhow bad this system was operating.\" He said, \"So I would like to come and visit\n\n608\n00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:35.440\nyou at your store\n\n609\n00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:39.200\ntoday before I go back to the corporate office and spend a little time getting\n\n610\n00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.000\nto know you.\"\n\n611\n00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.680\nSo this was a breakthrough for me because I am way off the beaten path. I'm in\n\n612\n00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:46.640\nMemphis, Tennessee.\n\n613\n00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:52.380\nAnd now my vice president, my function wants to actually spend time with me. So\n\n614\n00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:53.120\nhe comes to visit\n\n615\n00:30:53.120 --> 00:30:58.940\nme. My stores is in the most urban area of Memphis and he comes out to visit.\n\n616\n00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:00.240\nHe spends time. It was\n\n617\n00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.760\na great visit. We shake hands and I'm thinking, \"What a great day.\" And I\n\n618\n00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:05.120\nbelieve nothing would ever\n\n619\n00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:09.600\ncome of it. Well, two weeks later, I get an invitation from the corporate\n\n620\n00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:11.920\noffice to be a part of the\n\n621\n00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:17.150\ncompany's newly formed diversity committee. And I was recommended by the vice\n\n622\n00:31:17.150 --> 00:31:17.920\npresident\n\n623\n00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.160\nto come in. And so I fly to Minneapolis the second time in my life I'd ever\n\n624\n00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.520\nbeen on an airplane.\n\n625\n00:31:23.520 --> 00:31:27.610\nI fly to Minneapolis. I'm a part of that committee. While I'm up there, I meet\n\n626\n00:31:27.610 --> 00:31:28.640\nexecutives from the\n\n627\n00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.790\nFlorida market. Target was just opening up in Florida. They were impressed with\n\n628\n00:31:33.790 --> 00:31:34.640\nme. And the next thing\n\n629\n00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:40.160\nI knew, I'm promoted to a district level position working in Florida. So really\n\n630\n00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:41.120\njust stand enough\n\n631\n00:31:41.120 --> 00:31:44.850\nfor what you believe, having the courage to share your thoughts, really kind of\n\n632\n00:31:44.850 --> 00:31:45.920\nunlocked your career\n\n633\n00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.440\ntrack, right? David, I learned from that event is that we have two choices as\n\n634\n00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:52.640\nleaders. We can\n\n635\n00:31:52.640 --> 00:32:00.880\nstand out or we can blend in. And I decided to stand out not because I wanted\n\n636\n00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.880\nto be recognized,\n\n637\n00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.210\nnot because I wanted this leader to remember me, because I want to solve a\n\n638\n00:32:07.210 --> 00:32:08.000\nproblem.\n\n639\n00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.160\nI mean, I was really concerned with the issue and I felt that we have someone\n\n640\n00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:13.200\nin our store\n\n641\n00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:18.000\nthat has the ability to hopefully solve this. And so I decided to stand out for\n\n642\n00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.040\nthe right reasons.\n\n643\n00:32:19.040 --> 00:32:24.560\nAnd from that, the trajectory of my career changed. I ended up five years later\n\n644\n00:32:24.560 --> 00:32:25.120\nworking at the\n\n645\n00:32:25.120 --> 00:32:28.470\ncorporate office. Guess who I was reporting to? I was reporting to that vice\n\n646\n00:32:28.470 --> 00:32:29.440\npresident because he\n\n647\n00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:35.140\ntracked my career until the day he retired. And so that's just one of those\n\n648\n00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:35.920\nstories that\n\n649\n00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.740\ntaught me the lesson about being authentic, about being courageous, but also\n\n650\n00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:41.600\nhaving your facts\n\n651\n00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:45.840\nand being able to have recommendations on how you solve problems.\n\n652\n00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:56.990\nYou know your business cold. I mean, you've been in retail for a long time, but\n\n653\n00:32:56.990 --> 00:32:57.280\nyou really\n\n654\n00:32:57.280 --> 00:33:01.990\nknow your business. You're really passionate about it. And you've delivered\n\n655\n00:33:01.990 --> 00:33:02.960\nconsistent results\n\n656\n00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.120\nthroughout your career. What's your view of the jobs that you've taken as you\n\n657\n00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:08.640\n've climbed the ladder?\n\n658\n00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:18.080\nWell, I mean, I have a really interesting career path. And you could best\n\n659\n00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:19.040\ndescribe\n\n660\n00:33:19.040 --> 00:33:26.310\nmy career path in life as a study of resilience and taking tough assignments.\n\n661\n00:33:26.310 --> 00:33:27.040\nAnd let me tell you\n\n662\n00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:31.580\nsomething else that's a little known fact. I was thinking about the other day.\n\n663\n00:33:31.580 --> 00:33:32.800\nIn the last 25\n\n664\n00:33:32.800 --> 00:33:38.460\nyears, every position that I've ever accepted, including my current position, I\n\n665\n00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:39.360\n'll replace someone\n\n666\n00:33:39.360 --> 00:33:47.060\nwho was fired or forced out last 25 years. In addition to that, I can recall at\n\n667\n00:33:47.060 --> 00:33:48.000\nleast 10\n\n668\n00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.920\nseparate opportunities that I was passed over for promotion. And in most cases,\n\n669\n00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:54.720\nI felt I deserved\n\n670\n00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:03.520\na job. So I've had a lot of ups and downs in this very, very blessed career\n\n671\n00:34:03.520 --> 00:34:04.400\nthat I've had.\n\n672\n00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:12.100\nBut resilience is one of the key hallmarks of why I'm here today because I've\n\n673\n00:34:12.100 --> 00:34:12.720\nhad\n\n674\n00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:19.160\nlots of opportunities to just put my head down and feel sorry for myself. And I\n\n675\n00:34:19.160 --> 00:34:19.680\n've had a lot of\n\n676\n00:34:19.680 --> 00:34:25.280\ntough assignments. And I learned early on that the best way to move forward is\n\n677\n00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:26.160\nsometimes to take\n\n678\n00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:31.950\nassignments that no one else wants, that no one else is attracted to, that\n\n679\n00:34:31.950 --> 00:34:32.720\npeople look\n\n680\n00:34:32.720 --> 00:34:36.560\nlooking frowned upon because they don't think that there's a pathway to success\n\n681\n00:34:36.560 --> 00:34:37.120\n. But when you\n\n682\n00:34:37.120 --> 00:34:40.710\ndon't have sponsors, when you don't have an Ivy League education, when you don\n\n683\n00:34:40.710 --> 00:34:41.520\n't have mentors\n\n684\n00:34:41.520 --> 00:34:47.090\nwith influence, results matter. And so I'm taking a lot of those tough\n\n685\n00:34:47.090 --> 00:34:48.240\nassignments because I want\n\n686\n00:34:48.240 --> 00:34:52.560\nto demonstrate that I can lead. And I don't regret it. I mean, it's allowed me\n\n687\n00:34:52.560 --> 00:34:53.520\nto learn a lot of\n\n688\n00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:59.840\nskills, obviously make mistakes along the way. But it's kind of hard me and\n\n689\n00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:00.720\nallowed me to\n\n690\n00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:06.910\nlearn a lot about leadership and a lot about how to solve problems. And I\n\n691\n00:35:06.910 --> 00:35:07.920\nwouldn't trade one day\n\n692\n00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:11.710\nbecause it's prepared me for my current assignment. How do you think about\n\n693\n00:35:11.710 --> 00:35:13.040\nfailure? You've had some\n\n694\n00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:18.560\nups and downs, obviously. But when you think about your organization, how do\n\n695\n00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:19.600\nyou think about failure?\n\n696\n00:35:19.600 --> 00:35:26.790\nTo me, failure is something that you shouldn't frown upon. It's one of the best\n\n697\n00:35:26.790 --> 00:35:28.000\nways to learn.\n\n698\n00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:35.220\nAnd what I say to myself and to my team is the only way you don't fail is if\n\n699\n00:35:35.220 --> 00:35:35.760\nyou don't get out\n\n700\n00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.050\nof bed in the morning. Because you're going to make mistakes, you're going to\n\n701\n00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:40.240\nhave\n\n702\n00:35:41.040 --> 00:35:44.970\ndisappointments, and you're going to have failures. The question is, what do\n\n703\n00:35:44.970 --> 00:35:46.080\nyou do about it?\n\n704\n00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:50.600\nWhere did you learn from it? How will it help you to be a better leader? How\n\n705\n00:35:50.600 --> 00:35:51.840\nwill it allow you\n\n706\n00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:58.720\nto be more effective when a similar situation happens in the future? And I'll\n\n707\n00:35:58.720 --> 00:35:59.120\ntell you a real\n\n708\n00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:06.240\nquick story. When I was a district level leader at Target, I interviewed for a\n\n709\n00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:07.120\nregional position.\n\n710\n00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:11.440\nAnd it's one of those situations where everyone tells you the job is yours.\n\n711\n00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.320\nThis is just a\n\n712\n00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:16.850\nformula. And of course, I didn't get the job. So, going in an interview, I'm\n\n713\n00:36:16.850 --> 00:36:18.480\ndevastated that\n\n714\n00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:26.400\nthe job is actually given to someone who I am mentoring. So someone who is\n\n715\n00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.440\nseeking me for\n\n716\n00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.900\ncounsel and advice actually gets the position that they didn't even apply for\n\n717\n00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:31.280\nit.\n\n718\n00:36:32.080 --> 00:36:37.840\nAnd so, when I go to my functional VP and I asked a question what happened, he\n\n719\n00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:38.880\nexplains to me that\n\n720\n00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:44.960\nin the process was a very influential senior vice president who simply didn't\n\n721\n00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:46.000\nbelieve I was ready\n\n722\n00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.460\nand was the absolute reason why I didn't get the job because no one had the\n\n723\n00:36:51.460 --> 00:36:53.200\npolitical clout to\n\n724\n00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:57.160\noverride his objection. And so, I'm devastated by this. And of course, I'm\n\n725\n00:36:57.160 --> 00:36:58.080\nthinking, why doesn't\n\n726\n00:36:58.080 --> 00:37:03.520\nthe guy like me? So, I go through all the obvious thoughts in my head, but then\n\n727\n00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:04.320\nI decided to do\n\n728\n00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:08.400\nsomething different. And this is learning from failure. I decided to pick up\n\n729\n00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:10.240\nthe phone, call this\n\n730\n00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:16.010\nsenior vice president and ask him, would he be willing to mentor me? Because I\n\n731\n00:37:16.010 --> 00:37:16.960\nwas interested to\n\n732\n00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:23.050\nunderstand through what lens was he looking at me through and what did he see\n\n733\n00:37:23.050 --> 00:37:24.560\nthat others did not\n\n734\n00:37:24.560 --> 00:37:29.840\nsee? And what could I learn from it? And from that became one of the most\n\n735\n00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.840\ninteresting leadership\n\n736\n00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.800\nlearnings of my career because I spent time with him and he was gracious enough\n\n737\n00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:38.000\nto accept\n\n738\n00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.290\nmy request, although he was very surprised that I was asking. And from that, he\n\n739\n00:37:44.290 --> 00:37:45.760\ntaught me one\n\n740\n00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.690\ncritical lesson. And he said to me, \"Well, Marva, one of the reasons why you\n\n741\n00:37:49.690 --> 00:37:51.120\ndid not get my support\n\n742\n00:37:51.120 --> 00:37:59.560\nfor this position is because you have a history of always being the loudest\n\n743\n00:37:59.560 --> 00:38:01.040\nvoice in the room.\n\n744\n00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:06.620\nYou always try to have an answer to every question.\" And he said, \"You have to\n\n745\n00:38:06.620 --> 00:38:07.280\nunderstand\n\n746\n00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:14.550\nwhen to talk, when to listen, when to lead and when to follow.\" And that was a\n\n747\n00:38:14.550 --> 00:38:16.480\ngreat lesson. And so,\n\n748\n00:38:17.520 --> 00:38:24.800\nfrom his critique, I worked hard to improve my leadership, improve my\n\n749\n00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:26.640\nengagement with people,\n\n750\n00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:33.060\nunderstanding how to not be so dominant in meeting settings. And when the next\n\n751\n00:38:33.060 --> 00:38:34.000\npromotion opportunity\n\n752\n00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:40.570\ncame about, this guy went from my greatest detractor to my greatest promoter.\n\n753\n00:38:40.570 --> 00:38:42.400\nAnd as time as life\n\n754\n00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:51.200\nwould have it, years go by. And he reaches out to me when I'm at the Home Depot\n\n755\n00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:52.160\nand at JCPenney,\n\n756\n00:38:52.160 --> 00:38:56.480\nand I'm helping him with career issues that he's dealing with at this point in\n\n757\n00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.840\nhis life.\n\n758\n00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:07.500\nSo, it's interesting how our careers converge. For me, it was a great learning.\n\n759\n00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:08.800\nIt was humbling.\n\n760\n00:39:09.520 --> 00:39:15.430\nBut I teach a lot of my team members and young managers, I'm mentoring or\n\n761\n00:39:15.430 --> 00:39:16.240\ncoaching,\n\n762\n00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:22.480\nthat you have to try to learn from every failure because it's oftentimes not\n\n763\n00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:23.840\njust about you,\n\n764\n00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.000\nit's about how you're perceived, and it's about understanding how you can\n\n765\n00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.120\ncontinue to get better.\n\n766\n00:39:29.120 --> 00:39:32.390\nSo, that's just one of those many examples of failure that I tried to learn\n\n767\n00:39:32.390 --> 00:39:32.880\nfrom.\n\n768\n00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:39.600\nYou know, Marvin, as you were coming up as an African-American executive,\n\n769\n00:39:39.600 --> 00:39:45.600\nI'm sure you many times, you were the only black person in the room. What's\n\n770\n00:39:45.600 --> 00:39:46.800\nthat like?\n\n771\n00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.800\nAnd what can leaders learn from that?\n\n772\n00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:55.680\nWell, David, it's been an interesting journey. And I think what you can learn,\n\n773\n00:39:55.680 --> 00:40:00.660\nit goes back to what I said previously, you can decide to stand out or blend in\n\n774\n00:40:00.660 --> 00:40:01.680\n. And I'll tell\n\n775\n00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:05.040\nyou another, I got a thousand stories, man. I love these stories.\n\n776\n00:40:05.040 --> 00:40:11.680\nSo, I'm in Memphis, Tennessee, and I get promoted to the corporate office in\n\n777\n00:40:11.680 --> 00:40:12.800\nMinneapolis, Minnesota.\n\n778\n00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:17.440\nI never worked in the corporate office before. And back then, it was a\n\n779\n00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:25.920\nshirt-and-tie, suit-and-tie corporate environment. And so, I'd go up and I'm\n\n780\n00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:27.920\nkind of trying to\n\n781\n00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.840\ntransition into this new environment. And to your question,\n\n782\n00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:37.530\nduring the 90s, during that time, there was virtually no diversity at the\n\n783\n00:40:37.530 --> 00:40:38.080\ncorporate office.\n\n784\n00:40:38.080 --> 00:40:42.480\nThere's no one that looks like me. There are very few people who had spent a\n\n785\n00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:42.960\nlot of their\n\n786\n00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:49.120\ncareer in the field. And there's nobody from the south. So, I'm literally\n\n787\n00:40:49.120 --> 00:40:50.800\nlooking around,\n\n788\n00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:55.630\nand I believe and feel like I am the only person in that entire corporate\n\n789\n00:40:55.630 --> 00:40:56.400\nenvironment\n\n790\n00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:02.080\nthat looks, that thinks, or has a background like me. And I remember about four\n\n791\n00:41:02.080 --> 00:41:02.960\nmonths into this,\n\n792\n00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:07.760\nI go home, my wife is pregnant, we're up there by herself, and she's asking me,\n\n793\n00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:10.480\n\"How's it going to work? Your peer a little stress?\" And I said, \"Well, you\n\n794\n00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:11.120\nknow, Sharon,\n\n795\n00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:16.290\nthe job isn't that difficult from the technical perspective.\" I said, \"I know\n\n796\n00:41:16.290 --> 00:41:17.120\nwhat I'm doing.\" I\n\n797\n00:41:17.120 --> 00:41:22.190\nsaid, \"Just don't feel like I fit in.\" I said, \"I don't feel like, culturally,\n\n798\n00:41:22.190 --> 00:41:22.880\nthis is a place\n\n799\n00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:26.560\nwhere I can be successful.\" And she looked at me and she said, \"Well, let me\n\n800\n00:41:26.560 --> 00:41:27.280\ngive you some advice.\n\n801\n00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.680\nWhy don't you just try being yourself? Just relax and just be yourself and see\n\n802\n00:41:31.680 --> 00:41:32.640\nhow that works out.\"\n\n803\n00:41:32.640 --> 00:41:37.270\nAnd David, I remember something that my dad had said to my siblings and I, it\n\n804\n00:41:37.270 --> 00:41:38.320\nseemed like 100\n\n805\n00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:43.550\ntimes. And he would say, \"You know, we may not have the nicest car, we may not\n\n806\n00:41:43.550 --> 00:41:44.080\nlive in the\n\n807\n00:41:44.080 --> 00:41:48.620\nnicest house, you may not wear the nicest clothes every day, but always\n\n808\n00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:50.640\nremember no one can beat\n\n809\n00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:56.640\nyou being you. No one can beat you being you.\" So whenever you feel as though\n\n810\n00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:58.080\nthat you're not\n\n811\n00:41:58.080 --> 00:42:05.600\nachieving the thing that you believe you deserve, just focus on being the best\n\n812\n00:42:05.600 --> 00:42:06.800\nyou that you can be.\n\n813\n00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:13.440\nAnd I just give my dad credit for so many brilliant points of wisdom that he\n\n814\n00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:13.760\ngave\n\n815\n00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:18.730\nmyself and my siblings. And so, and that, and my wife reminded me of that\n\n816\n00:42:18.730 --> 00:42:19.680\nteaching side to side.\n\n817\n00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:24.520\nYou know what? Let me be me. And so, you know, I had changed where I dressed,\n\n818\n00:42:24.520 --> 00:42:25.120\nyou know, because most\n\n819\n00:42:25.120 --> 00:42:29.240\nof the white guys were wearing khaki pants and penny loafers and, you know, and\n\n820\n00:42:29.240 --> 00:42:30.320\nI had converted\n\n821\n00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.150\nto fit, I wanted to fit in. But what I realized is that by fitting in, I was\n\n822\n00:42:34.150 --> 00:42:35.040\nactually working two\n\n823\n00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:38.920\njobs. I was working the job I was being paid to do and then I was working the\n\n824\n00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:39.920\njob being someone\n\n825\n00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:44.930\nthat I wasn't. And so, and so I was doing double duty while everyone else was\n\n826\n00:42:44.930 --> 00:42:46.160\ndoing single duty.\n\n827\n00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:49.280\nAnd I decided, you know what? I'm going to dress professional. I'm going to\n\n828\n00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:50.240\ndress the way I'm\n\n829\n00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:53.600\ncomfortable. So, yeah, I'd wear a shirt and a tie, but I would wear it in the\n\n830\n00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:54.720\nstyle that I felt\n\n831\n00:42:54.720 --> 00:43:01.280\nbest fit my personality, my ethnicity, and my style. And I knew the feel and I\n\n832\n00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:01.920\nwould, and so,\n\n833\n00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.450\nI decided to go up there. And when I sat in a meeting, if there was something\n\n834\n00:43:06.450 --> 00:43:07.200\nthat I felt\n\n835\n00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:12.870\ndidn't support the feel, I would raise that point, but I'd raise it with facts.\n\n836\n00:43:12.870 --> 00:43:13.760\nAnd I would raise it\n\n837\n00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:18.240\nin a very constructive way. And then I felt like, you know what? I'm the only\n\n838\n00:43:18.240 --> 00:43:19.760\nblack person up here.\n\n839\n00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:23.920\nLet me provide some diversity perspective to ensure we're making the right\n\n840\n00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:25.200\ndecisions for this\n\n841\n00:43:25.200 --> 00:43:29.640\nconsumer group. And so, I would share thoughts and those ideas about the black\n\n842\n00:43:29.640 --> 00:43:30.640\ncommunity in ways\n\n843\n00:43:30.640 --> 00:43:35.870\nwe could be more effective. And before I knew it, people were gravitating\n\n844\n00:43:35.870 --> 00:43:37.360\ntoward me. They wanted\n\n845\n00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:41.100\nto know what I thought. They were inviting me to be a part of the project\n\n846\n00:43:41.100 --> 00:43:42.480\ngroups and focus groups,\n\n847\n00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:49.580\nbecause I no longer showed up as a commodity. You know, when you are like\n\n848\n00:43:49.580 --> 00:43:50.400\neveryone else,\n\n849\n00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.900\nyou are a commodity. You're commoditizing yourself. But I just, when I decided\n\n850\n00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:56.080\nto stand out,\n\n851\n00:43:56.080 --> 00:43:59.520\npeople were attracted to that because they were interested in what I had to say\n\n852\n00:43:59.520 --> 00:44:00.160\n, because it was\n\n853\n00:44:00.160 --> 00:44:06.630\nunique. It was refreshing and it was scarce. And I learned from that, you know,\n\n854\n00:44:06.630 --> 00:44:08.000\nas a black man\n\n855\n00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.860\nin corporate America, as a black executive operating in a world that I don't\n\n856\n00:44:12.860 --> 00:44:13.360\nhave a lot of\n\n857\n00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:19.370\npeople that look like me, the best thing I can do is be the best possible, most\n\n858\n00:44:19.370 --> 00:44:20.320\nauthentic\n\n859\n00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:30.080\nme that I can be in a way that is, again, authentic, in a way that is, in a way\n\n860\n00:44:30.080 --> 00:44:30.720\nthat's\n\n861\n00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:37.470\nprogressive, but in a way that is educational, that helps make the organization\n\n862\n00:44:37.470 --> 00:44:38.800\nbetter by bringing\n\n863\n00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:43.370\nmy unique learnings, my unique life, and my unique perspective, you know, to\n\n864\n00:44:43.370 --> 00:44:44.800\nthe conversation. So,\n\n865\n00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:48.190\nit can hopefully allow us to make better decisions. That was a great lesson\n\n866\n00:44:48.190 --> 00:44:49.360\nthat I learned and I've\n\n867\n00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:54.000\nnever forgotten that lesson. I love that idea of being the best you you can be.\n\n868\n00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:54.560\nYou know, I wish\n\n869\n00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:58.990\nout of it, your father. He's a very wise person, no question about that. You\n\n870\n00:44:58.990 --> 00:45:01.040\nknow, and in 2020,\n\n871\n00:45:01.040 --> 00:45:06.660\nwe all witnessed the, you know, the tragic murder of George Floyd and, you know\n\n872\n00:45:06.660 --> 00:45:07.920\n, all the issues of\n\n873\n00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:13.360\naround social injustice have really come to the forefront. As a black leader,\n\n874\n00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:14.080\ndo you feel that\n\n875\n00:45:14.080 --> 00:45:19.120\nputs more pressure on you in any way? And what are you doing about it? How's it\n\n876\n00:45:19.120 --> 00:45:19.680\naffected your\n\n877\n00:45:19.680 --> 00:45:26.420\nleadership? Well, I think, look, I think there's an obligation for lack of a\n\n878\n00:45:26.420 --> 00:45:27.840\nbetter word that\n\n879\n00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:35.940\nI have to make sure that I educate the people around me about these issues. And\n\n880\n00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:36.800\nso, the first\n\n881\n00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:43.330\nthing that I did after the world and myself viewed that horrific video was to\n\n882\n00:45:43.330 --> 00:45:46.800\nbring my entire senior\n\n883\n00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:53.990\nleadership team together and have a conversation about race in America, have a\n\n884\n00:45:53.990 --> 00:45:55.520\nconversation about\n\n885\n00:45:55.520 --> 00:46:01.360\npolicing, and to share some stories with them of things that's happened to me,\n\n886\n00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:03.840\nhappened to my son,\n\n887\n00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:09.150\nwho's a young black man, and happened to people in my family, so they can\n\n888\n00:46:09.150 --> 00:46:11.360\nunderstand that this\n\n889\n00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:18.180\nis not simply an isolated incident, but it's a systemic issue that exists, you\n\n890\n00:46:18.180 --> 00:46:18.560\nknow, in our\n\n891\n00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:25.790\nsociety. But in addition to that, I wanted them to understand that we all play\n\n892\n00:46:25.790 --> 00:46:27.520\na role in making\n\n893\n00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:36.320\nthis country better. And part of the role we play is by having a willingness to\n\n894\n00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:37.120\ncreate\n\n895\n00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:42.880\na comfortable environment, to have uncomfortable conversations. And I was given\n\n896\n00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.760\nthem an example\n\n897\n00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.770\nof creating a comfortable environment to have an uncomfortable conversation,\n\n898\n00:46:49.770 --> 00:46:50.640\nbecause to many of\n\n899\n00:46:50.640 --> 00:46:56.040\nthem was the first time that any black leader had sat them down and had a very\n\n900\n00:46:56.040 --> 00:46:57.920\ncandid conversation\n\n901\n00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:01.950\nabout how this not only, not how this affects society, let's talk about how\n\n902\n00:47:01.950 --> 00:47:02.720\nthis affects me.\n\n903\n00:47:02.720 --> 00:47:08.080\nLet me give you specific examples and those stories about things that I've\n\n904\n00:47:08.080 --> 00:47:09.360\npersonally experienced,\n\n905\n00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:13.230\nand then let's talk through these things. And then my question to them is how\n\n906\n00:47:13.230 --> 00:47:14.720\noften are you sitting\n\n907\n00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:24.480\ndown with people on your team that looks like me, that are black, Latino, etc.,\n\n908\n00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:26.000\nthat may have a\n\n909\n00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:29.600\ndifferent view of the world and the world may have a different view of them.\n\n910\n00:47:29.600 --> 00:47:31.120\nAre you sitting down\n\n911\n00:47:31.120 --> 00:47:36.720\nand having conversations with them about what they are experiencing and what we\n\n912\n00:47:36.720 --> 00:47:37.600\ncan do, what you can\n\n913\n00:47:37.600 --> 00:47:43.840\ndo to help them possibly to solve and resolve these issues? And so part of what\n\n914\n00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:44.880\nI did is I spoke\n\n915\n00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:50.290\nout publicly, but more of my time was spent on two areas. And that is trying to\n\n916\n00:47:50.290 --> 00:47:51.200\nmake sure as a\n\n917\n00:47:51.200 --> 00:47:57.590\ncompany that loads, understands, and values diversity at all levels, and also\n\n918\n00:47:57.590 --> 00:47:58.320\nto make sure\n\n919\n00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:02.310\nthat I continue to educate my children, because they have to live in this\n\n920\n00:48:02.310 --> 00:48:04.080\nsociety. They have to\n\n921\n00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:08.880\noperate in this society, and I want them to understand what it means to them\n\n922\n00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:09.360\nand to try to\n\n923\n00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.710\nprovide some level of wisdom and education to them. And that's what I've tried\n\n924\n00:48:13.710 --> 00:48:14.240\nto do.\n\n925\n00:48:15.040 --> 00:48:21.990\nLook, I'm blessed and honored and privileged to be one of a very small number\n\n926\n00:48:21.990 --> 00:48:24.400\nof black CEOs\n\n927\n00:48:24.400 --> 00:48:29.960\nof public companies, specifically Fortune 500 companies, but I'm also wise\n\n928\n00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.360\nenough to know\n\n929\n00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:36.800\nthat because the number is so small, it screams missed opportunity. There are\n\n930\n00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:38.240\nso many talented,\n\n931\n00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:45.700\ncapable leaders out there of different ethnicities that are being overlooked\n\n932\n00:48:45.700 --> 00:48:47.440\nbecause the assessment\n\n933\n00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:54.570\nprocess is flawed and is not understanding of picking up leadership traits that\n\n934\n00:48:54.570 --> 00:48:55.520\npeople like me\n\n935\n00:48:55.520 --> 00:48:59.520\nbring to the table each and every day. And I'm just blessed and honored that\n\n936\n00:48:59.520 --> 00:49:01.040\nthe board and the\n\n937\n00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:05.950\ndecision makers at Lowe's saw fit to give me this opportunity. And I'm even\n\n938\n00:49:05.950 --> 00:49:07.760\nmore grateful that we\n\n939\n00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:11.920\nput an incredible team of leaders together, and we are moving this business\n\n940\n00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:12.240\nforward,\n\n941\n00:49:12.240 --> 00:49:14.800\nand we're making a difference in the lives of a lot of people.\n\n942\n00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:20.880\nWell, you're obviously doing that and hats off to you for that and your team.\n\n943\n00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:21.520\nAnd it's been\n\n944\n00:49:21.520 --> 00:49:24.290\nreally enlightening to have this conversation with you, Marvin. I want to have\n\n945\n00:49:24.290 --> 00:49:24.960\na little bit of\n\n946\n00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:29.440\nfun before we break this off. So I got a lightning round of questions I want to\n\n947\n00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:30.240\nask you real quick.\n\n948\n00:49:30.240 --> 00:49:33.440\nWhat three words best describe you?\n\n949\n00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.960\nFaith, family, and company. What gives you the most joy at work?\n\n950\n00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:44.400\nTeaching, training, and engaging with the associates.\n\n951\n00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:50.560\nYour biggest pet peeve. Don't be late. If you could be one person for a day,\n\n952\n00:49:50.560 --> 00:49:51.760\nwho would it be and why?\n\n953\n00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:59.040\nYou know what, David? I'm a, I live a charm life. I got a beautiful wife of 30\n\n954\n00:49:59.040 --> 00:50:00.320\nyears, two great kids.\n\n955\n00:50:01.040 --> 00:50:04.960\nMy dad went from being a sharecropper to seeing one of his kids run two, four\n\n956\n00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:05.520\nto five hundred\n\n957\n00:50:05.520 --> 00:50:08.080\ncompanies. There's not a lot of people I'm willing to trade with.\n\n958\n00:50:08.080 --> 00:50:13.120\nYou're like that, \"Cane Brown's long. I'm already got heaven on Earth,\n\n959\n00:50:13.120 --> 00:50:16.400\nthere you know, that's great.\" You know, what's something about you that few\n\n960\n00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.120\npeople would know?\n\n961\n00:50:17.120 --> 00:50:21.440\nI'm a, I'm a naturally extreme introvert.\n\n962\n00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:26.160\nWow, I would have never guessed that one. Do you have any hidden talents?\n\n963\n00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:31.380\nI'm a bass player. I'm a musician. My family, when I grew up, we had a gospel\n\n964\n00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:32.080\nsinging group,\n\n965\n00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:36.440\nand we traveled all over the southeast, made a, you know, few albums and\n\n966\n00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:38.240\nrecords, and I work,\n\n967\n00:50:38.240 --> 00:50:43.340\nin this studio work in college, as one of my many ways of financial support. So\n\n968\n00:50:43.340 --> 00:50:44.320\nI'm a bass player,\n\n969\n00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:49.600\nand I have both my kids are really good musicians also, and I got some brothers\n\n970\n00:50:49.600 --> 00:50:51.120\nwho are world-class\n\n971\n00:50:51.120 --> 00:50:56.080\nmusicians. Do you perform at Lowe's in the big social events there? I did. I\n\n972\n00:50:56.080 --> 00:50:57.520\nperformed last year\n\n973\n00:50:57.520 --> 00:51:02.640\nwith a group of other officers that we got together and surprised all of our\n\n974\n00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:03.440\nstore managers\n\n975\n00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:08.720\nat our annual sales meeting, and we had a great time, and I made them the\n\n976\n00:51:08.720 --> 00:51:10.160\ncommitment that if we\n\n977\n00:51:10.160 --> 00:51:15.250\nmade sales plan for 2020, I would force all of my direct reports to join me on\n\n978\n00:51:15.250 --> 00:51:15.600\nstage\n\n979\n00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:20.540\nto perform, and so it's going to be a real interesting event when I make that\n\n980\n00:51:20.540 --> 00:51:21.280\nhappen.\n\n981\n00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:26.080\nI'm sure it'll happen too, you know, and you know, it's interesting that, you\n\n982\n00:51:26.080 --> 00:51:27.760\nknow, you've got this\n\n983\n00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:32.930\ngreat musician background, and you know, you seem to have a little bit of self-\n\n984\n00:51:32.930 --> 00:51:33.920\ndeprecating humor.\n\n985\n00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:38.160\nHow important do you think that is as a leader? Look, I think it's very\n\n986\n00:51:38.160 --> 00:51:40.080\nimportant. Like, I told\n\n987\n00:51:40.080 --> 00:51:45.120\nthe team coming out of 2020, you know, we're going to spend a lot of time here\n\n988\n00:51:45.120 --> 00:51:46.640\nat work. In 2021,\n\n989\n00:51:46.640 --> 00:51:50.480\nwe're going to dedicate a lot of our energy. We're going to spend, you know,\n\n990\n00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:51.360\nhours away from our\n\n991\n00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:56.450\nfamily. We may as well enjoy it. So it's good to laugh, it's good to stop and\n\n992\n00:51:56.450 --> 00:51:57.520\nsmell the roses,\n\n993\n00:51:57.520 --> 00:52:01.290\nand it's even better to be a blessing to the people around you. So I try to\n\n994\n00:52:01.290 --> 00:52:02.720\nkeep it light. We have,\n\n995\n00:52:02.720 --> 00:52:08.040\nyou know, tough decisions to make. We're running a big company, but I think it\n\n996\n00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:09.600\n's probably not a\n\n997\n00:52:09.600 --> 00:52:14.000\nsmart idea to take yourself too serious. You know, I noticed another little\n\n998\n00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:14.960\nknown fact about you\n\n999\n00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:19.670\nis you were father of the year in 2017. So congratulations for that. That's\n\n1000\n00:52:19.670 --> 00:52:20.560\nobviously very\n\n1001\n00:52:20.560 --> 00:52:24.500\nimportant. Do you have any tips for people on work-life balance? I mean, you\n\n1002\n00:52:24.500 --> 00:52:25.200\nobviously have\n\n1003\n00:52:25.200 --> 00:52:29.390\nbeen able to do both, you know, build your career and have a great family. Well\n\n1004\n00:52:29.390 --> 00:52:30.800\n, David, I have a\n\n1005\n00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:35.680\nreally, I have a list of very simple philosophies. And one is this, there's one\n\n1006\n00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:37.440\nsure far way for me\n\n1007\n00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:41.570\nto know what is important to you in your life. And I simply look at your\n\n1008\n00:52:41.570 --> 00:52:44.080\ncalendar. If it's not on\n\n1009\n00:52:44.080 --> 00:52:48.160\nyour calendar, it's probably not important to you. And so you can look at my\n\n1010\n00:52:48.160 --> 00:52:49.120\ncalendar and you're\n\n1011\n00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:54.290\ngoing to see every birthday, every anniversary. You're going to see back with\n\n1012\n00:52:54.290 --> 00:52:55.200\nmy kids for the\n\n1013\n00:52:55.200 --> 00:52:58.660\nhigh school, you're going to see, you know, sports events, you're going to see\n\n1014\n00:52:58.660 --> 00:52:58.960\nparent\n\n1015\n00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:03.560\nteachers conferences, you're going to see musical recitals. I never missed a\n\n1016\n00:53:03.560 --> 00:53:04.400\nparent teachers'\n\n1017\n00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:09.600\nconference. I never missed a recital. I never missed a sporting event of any of\n\n1018\n00:53:09.600 --> 00:53:10.960\nmy kids and\n\n1019\n00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:18.610\nall the various jobs that I've had because my dad never missed hours because he\n\n1020\n00:53:18.610 --> 00:53:19.520\nwas a salesman.\n\n1021\n00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:23.760\nSo his schedule was flexible. My mom worked at a factory so she couldn't get\n\n1022\n00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:24.640\nout work.\n\n1023\n00:53:24.640 --> 00:53:28.720\nBut my dad had enough flexibility that he attended every parent teachers'\n\n1024\n00:53:28.720 --> 00:53:29.520\nconference and my\n\n1025\n00:53:29.520 --> 00:53:35.630\nparents attended every sporting event and every other event that we had as kids\n\n1026\n00:53:35.630 --> 00:53:37.120\n. And I believe I\n\n1027\n00:53:37.120 --> 00:53:42.260\nowe that at least to my kids. And it's all about prioritization. It's all about\n\n1028\n00:53:42.260 --> 00:53:42.960\nscheduling and\n\n1029\n00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:46.670\nit's all about balance. And when people say there's no such thing as work\n\n1030\n00:53:46.670 --> 00:53:48.240\nbalance, work life balance,\n\n1031\n00:53:48.240 --> 00:53:53.040\nI say hogwash. It is absolutely true. I rarely meet someone that has a\n\n1032\n00:53:53.040 --> 00:53:54.640\nmiserable home life that\n\n1033\n00:53:54.640 --> 00:53:59.920\nhas a great work life. I think balance is required in order for you to sustain\n\n1034\n00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:01.680\nboth in a way that\n\n1035\n00:54:01.680 --> 00:54:07.200\nyou can live a productive life. You know, I've always felt that the results\n\n1036\n00:54:07.200 --> 00:54:08.000\nthat you generate\n\n1037\n00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:13.340\nhelp you get balanced too. What's your view on that? I would say absolutely. At\n\n1038\n00:54:13.340 --> 00:54:14.240\nthe end of the day,\n\n1039\n00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:22.920\nif you're a store manager and you have two assistant managers and one person is\n\n1040\n00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:24.240\nnever on time,\n\n1041\n00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:29.460\nnever meet their expectations, results are poor. And you have another that's\n\n1042\n00:54:29.460 --> 00:54:30.400\nalways on time,\n\n1043\n00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:37.120\ntakes additional assignments, leads well, has great results. And someone comes\n\n1044\n00:54:37.120 --> 00:54:38.800\nin and wants to get\n\n1045\n00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:44.000\nemergency time off to go do something with their family. I guarantee you're\n\n1046\n00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:44.960\nmore likely to give\n\n1047\n00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:49.500\nit to the person without standing results than the person that's never\n\n1048\n00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:51.200\ndelivering on the expectations.\n\n1049\n00:54:51.200 --> 00:54:57.160\nAnd so I'm a huge believer that performance is the great equalizer. And so for\n\n1050\n00:54:57.160 --> 00:54:57.520\nme,\n\n1051\n00:54:57.520 --> 00:55:01.920\nI always focus first on performance because if I can perform at a high level,\n\n1052\n00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:07.170\nif I can deliver results, then I expect to have preferential treatment from my\n\n1053\n00:55:07.170 --> 00:55:08.080\nboss based on\n\n1054\n00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:12.820\nthe fact that they see me as an indispensable part of the team versus the\n\n1055\n00:55:12.820 --> 00:55:14.240\nalternative. So\n\n1056\n00:55:14.240 --> 00:55:17.840\nperformance absolutely creates work life balance.\n\n1057\n00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:22.160\nYou know, and Marvin, you've mentioned faith a couple of times in this\n\n1058\n00:55:22.160 --> 00:55:22.880\nconversation.\n\n1059\n00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:28.320\nYou're a man of faith and you're public about it. And you know, that takes a\n\n1060\n00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:29.600\nbit of courage too.\n\n1061\n00:55:29.600 --> 00:55:36.240\nWhat's your perspective on faith in the workplace? Well, look, David, my, it's\n\n1062\n00:55:36.240 --> 00:55:37.360\npretty straightforward.\n\n1063\n00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:45.270\nYou know, my faith grounds me. It defines who I am. I believe that it's\n\n1064\n00:55:45.270 --> 00:55:46.000\nimportant\n\n1065\n00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:54.190\nfor each individual to make their own decision about how they will reflect\n\n1066\n00:55:54.190 --> 00:55:56.320\ntheir faith at work\n\n1067\n00:55:56.320 --> 00:56:01.200\nand how they will reflect it and how they live their lives. You know, for me,\n\n1068\n00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:08.000\nI just go by the mantra of just letting my light shine. And people can see me.\n\n1069\n00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:13.120\nThey can see the joy that I operate with. They can see the success I've been\n\n1070\n00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:17.190\nblessed and fortunate to have. They can see my family life. They can see my\n\n1071\n00:56:17.190 --> 00:56:17.680\nwork life.\n\n1072\n00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:26.320\nAnd from that, if they want to know why I have this joy, why my success, you\n\n1073\n00:56:26.320 --> 00:56:27.040\nknow, has been\n\n1074\n00:56:27.040 --> 00:56:31.600\nrelatively consistent, although I've had plenty of life challenges, why I'm\n\n1075\n00:56:31.600 --> 00:56:32.880\nalways a glass half\n\n1076\n00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:37.290\nfull, I'll be more than happy to share with them that is primarily grounded in\n\n1077\n00:56:37.290 --> 00:56:38.160\nmy faith.\n\n1078\n00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:41.040\nI don't think you need to go around preaching. I don't think you need to go\n\n1079\n00:56:41.040 --> 00:56:42.960\naround trying to\n\n1080\n00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:48.320\nforce your beliefs on individuals, but I am perfectly fine and accepted with\n\n1081\n00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:49.920\nany one of any faith\n\n1082\n00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:55.280\nof allowing that to be their grounding factor and who they are and how they\n\n1083\n00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:56.880\noperate and allowing\n\n1084\n00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:01.840\nthat to drive their belief system. And I made a promise to God a long time ago\n\n1085\n00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:02.560\nthat if he blessed\n\n1086\n00:57:02.560 --> 00:57:09.190\nme to continue to perform and to reach your levels in the corporate world of\n\n1087\n00:57:09.190 --> 00:57:10.240\ninfluence,\n\n1088\n00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:14.720\nthat I was going to be true to who I am, but I was going to also make sure that\n\n1089\n00:57:14.720 --> 00:57:15.280\nI'd be a good\n\n1090\n00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:21.530\nsteward to the business and that I drive all the necessary results and take\n\n1091\n00:57:21.530 --> 00:57:22.400\ncare of people,\n\n1092\n00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:24.960\nbecause at the end of the day, that's what I'm paid to do. I'm paid to create\n\n1093\n00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:26.320\nshareholder value,\n\n1094\n00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:31.910\nto create a great company for associates to work, to operate with integrity,\n\n1095\n00:57:31.910 --> 00:57:33.120\nand to make sure as a\n\n1096\n00:57:33.120 --> 00:57:37.220\ncompany that we are one of the best performing in the marketplace, and I can do\n\n1097\n00:57:37.220 --> 00:57:38.560\nall those things,\n\n1098\n00:57:38.560 --> 00:57:42.800\nyou know, lead with my faith and continue to make my family a priority.\n\n1099\n00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:48.590\nWell, Marvin, I can tell you your light has definitely been shining this past\n\n1100\n00:57:48.590 --> 00:57:50.800\nof 45 minutes or so,\n\n1101\n00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:54.800\nand I really, really appreciate you taking the time to be with us. And\n\n1102\n00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:55.920\ncongratulations on your\n\n1103\n00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.270\nsuccess at Lowe's. You are driving shareholder value. You're getting that\n\n1104\n00:57:59.270 --> 00:58:00.000\nbusiness really\n\n1105\n00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:03.730\nmoving forward, and you've got a great team. So congratulations, and thanks\n\n1106\n00:58:03.730 --> 00:58:04.240\nagain.\n\n1107\n00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:08.620\nIt's a pleasure to talk to you. And again, I want to thank you for your\n\n1108\n00:58:08.620 --> 00:58:10.480\ncommitment to leadership\n\n1109\n00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:16.080\ndevelopment. It is something that I admire so much. I wish you well and again,\n\n1110\n00:58:16.080 --> 00:58:16.720\nand thank you for\n\n1111\n00:58:16.720 --> 00:58:21.170\nacknowledging the team that I have here, because you know, as a former CEO,\n\n1112\n00:58:21.170 --> 00:58:22.000\nnothing can happen\n\n1113\n00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.580\nwithout a great group of men and women around you. So God bless you and have a\n\n1114\n00:58:25.580 --> 00:58:27.600\ngreat rest of 2021.\n\n1115\n00:58:27.600 --> 00:58:40.960\nNow, look, we all face tough situations, but the hard truth is most people shy\n\n1116\n00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:42.000\naway from them\n\n1117\n00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:48.240\nare just avoid them altogether. And that's natural. But man, I really admire\n\n1118\n00:58:48.240 --> 00:58:49.600\nhow Marvin just grabs\n\n1119\n00:58:49.600 --> 00:58:55.110\nthose moments by the horns. And Marvin teaches us the courage it takes to stand\n\n1120\n00:58:55.110 --> 00:58:56.320\nup and stand out\n\n1121\n00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:01.200\nin those tough situations may be exactly what we need to make our market work.\n\n1122\n00:59:01.200 --> 00:59:05.960\nThis week, as part of your weekly personal development plan, I want you to\n\n1123\n00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:06.960\nconsider something.\n\n1124\n00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:11.200\nIs there an issue in your organization that keeps getting swept under the rug\n\n1125\n00:59:11.200 --> 00:59:12.080\nbecause no one is\n\n1126\n00:59:12.080 --> 00:59:16.480\nwilling to address it? What would it look like if you just stepped up and\n\n1127\n00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:18.000\ntackled that challenge\n\n1128\n00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:21.750\nto bring it to the attention of the people around you, to bring facts and\n\n1129\n00:59:21.750 --> 00:59:23.280\nconstructive ideas for a\n\n1130\n00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:28.490\nreal solution? Now, I know that's a big question. Heck, it may be way bigger\n\n1131\n00:59:28.490 --> 00:59:29.840\nthan your week,\n\n1132\n00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:34.560\nbut I hope it gets you thinking about the courage that we all need to have as\n\n1133\n00:59:34.560 --> 00:59:35.280\nleaders\n\n1134\n00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:40.000\nto tackle the tough assignments the way that Marvin has throughout his career.\n\n1135\n00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.160\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that the\n\n1136\n00:59:44.160 --> 00:59:45.280\ngreat leaders tackle\n\n1137\n00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:49.660\nthe tough assignments. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How\n\n1138\n00:59:49.660 --> 00:59:50.480\nLeaders Lead,\n\n1139\n00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:54.560\nwhere every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very\n\n1140\n00:59:54.560 --> 00:59:55.440\nbest leaders in the\n\n1141\n00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:00.150\nworld. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you\n\n1142\n01:00:00.150 --> 01:00:01.120\ncan apply to your\n\n1143\n01:00:01.120 --> 01:00:05.600\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1144\n01:00:05.600 --> 01:00:15.600\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1145\n01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:44.600\n[ Silence ]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Marvin Ellison, CEO of Lowe's. Now, let me ask you a question. Have you ever taken over in a position after the previous guy or gal left under bad circumstances? If you have, then you know, those are some of the toughest situations to walk into. Now, Marvin is amazing for a lot of reasons. But get this in his 25 year career in every new role, he has taken over for someone who has been fired or forced out. Now, that's a man who's not afraid of a tough assignment. Marvin was actually born as the son of sharecroppers, and he has risen through the ranks with a ton of courage over the years, he took the jobs other people didn't want, because he knew that was how he could prove his abilities. Marvin is also one of the few African American fortune 500 CEOs in our country. And I can't tell you how honored I am to have him here. Let's jump right in and see what happens when we're brave enough to tackle even the toughest assignments

are and this is all about learning how you lead. And I'd like to start out by hearing how you spent your early days as the new CEO of Lowe's.

Marvin Ellison 1:37

What will David you know, as you know, I had been in the home improvement industry for 12 years, working for the Home Depot. And then I took a Chairman CEO role in the turnaround of JC Penney, which I learned more from that experience than I did in my MBA program years prior. But what I was, but I had a unique opportunity to to come back into an industry that I love and which was home improvement. And I did something different. And I learned from my transition from Home Depot to JC Penney, and that is I jumped immediately in because I felt it was important for me to get a chance to look at the pace of the business during the holiday season. And so I had really no transition period between the two companies. And in retrospect, that was probably not the best decision when you're shifting, not only companies but industries. So when I decided to join Lowe's, I asked the board to give me a 30 day gap between leaving JCPenney and officially starting with Lowe's. And during that 30 day period, I decided to go out and try to hit all 15 geographic regions of the company, you know, just as a unannounced bystander visiting stores observing and just having casual conversation, you know, with the associates and customers, you know, as I just browse around, you know, the different parts of the country interacting. And I learned a tremendous amount about what was great about Lowe's and that was primarily the dedicated men and women that worked in the stores and how they will work in and persevering through so many limitations that a company our size should not have placed on our associate base, but also identify, you know, a lot of shortcomings. And so, you know, just imagine you're trying to get out within really It turned into a six week period, and trying to visit all 15 geographic regions around the United States within that timeframe. But it was an incredible lesson and learning process for me. And from that it allowed me to work with my newly developed leadership team to lay out, you know, our strategic framework on how we would transform the company.

David Novak 4:00

You know, Marvin, I understand that, you know, your first day when you went out into the field, there was actually a group at the headquarters who had a sign out there for you ready to welcome you and you were out there out in the field, you know, so you went straight to where the rubber meets the road, which is always a powerful thing to do. Did you do that as well, not only to learn, but to shock the system and let them know that was what was really important to you in terms of who you need to focus on and, and that there was a new sheriff in town

Marvin Ellison 4:29

and no, it really I'll be honest with you, it was it was really my attempt just just to learn I want it my first day on the job to feel like the first day of any associate in the company. And typically, their first day is in the stores trying to learn and to that point, you know, someone sent me a photo of a really a big digital sign they had at every entrance and they had a big photo of me, you know, welcoming our new CEO Oh, there was, you know, and I'm looking at that thinking, you know, that's a little ostentatious, you know, they'll be having a photo op. And I hope they're Sosa's believed I had nothing to do with that. But I'm also thinking, I have no intention of being in the office on my first day. And so when I communicate it, you know, to the HR team, that I would not physically be on the corporate campus. Instead, I want to go to a store and work at the protests, because I knew from my tours around the country that that was a huge opportunity that we had to figure out and fixed, their first recommendation was, well, that's great. We'll send a have a photo crew, you know, with our PR team to kind of document your entire first day because we think it'd be great to show to the associates and I told them, No, I don't want any cameras. I don't want anyone from media PR president, I just want to go and learn. And I want to spend time with the associates. I won't I don't want them to be intimidated, you know, from answering questions and just relaxing and having you good, you know, transparent, candid dialogue. And so it really was to learn it was to try to engage with the associates and looking at you know, my story, I started out in retail, as a $4.35 cent an hour part time employee working for target while I was going to the University of Memphis, you know, just in an attempt to pay for books and put gas in my car and help pay the rent. And that turned into, you know, a lifelong love affair with retail.

David Novak 6:37

You know, you in those first six weeks at Lowe's, you learned a lot. What was the biggest surprise that you uncovered?

Marvin Ellison 6:44

Well, the biggest surprise is how over a period of time, the previous management team had unintentionally taking all of what I would call the incentive, and the decision making and the courage away from from the field team. They just they felt like they had no empowerment, I give you a give you two great examples. So one day I show up in Bullhead, city, Arizona, and Bullhead City, Arizona is on the app is on Arizona and Nevada border. So I pop into the store, the average household income of this marketplace is roughly $35,000 a year. So this is this is not a high end marketplace from a household income. But but these are customers that depend on Lowe's. So walk in the store. And the first thing I see is a group of associates setting an endcap of deck stain. There's only one problem there are no decks in Arizona. It's all concrete. And so I'll walk a walk up to the associate who happened to be the store manager and I said introduce myself. So to his shock, the new CEO was in his store. And as a measure question, I said, I've been out of home improvement for about four years. But the last time I was in Arizona, I never remember seeing a deck. I thought all of the patios were concrete. He's what is right, Marvin, we have no decks in this market. I said, Well, why are we setting an end cap of deck stain, he said we that's the planogram. So the planogram came from the corporate office. And we're going to set the planogram. I said, even if you know as the store manager that the product will not sell, and customers won't buy it. He said, Marvin, you don't understand. Here at Lowe's, we do what we're told in the stores. And if I get a store visit from my district manager from someone at the corporate office, and we're not set to planogram, I will get in trouble. So we're going to set this planogram as prescribed. So we had so I took obviously took note of that. And so the next day I'm in I'm in Austin, Texas, it is 112 degrees outside. And I walk in the store and the first thing I see in the patio set is a fire pit. So I find the store manager and into my great fortune, the district manager was actually in the store, introduce myself and I have a very basic question. Why are we setting a display with a fire pit? And it is 112 degrees outside? And as you can imagine? The answer was because it's the planogram. And so from that it became painfully apparent to me that we had literally taken all the empowerment away from our frontline leaders to think and operate in a way that best serve the customer and obviously serve the company and our shareholders. And we had literally created windup toys, where they were they did what they were told we didn't want them to think we didn't want them to process. And so from that, David we created what we call and we shame Fully stole from other companies, Lowe's University and Lowe's University, we made a decision that we were going to bring in every single store manager all 2200 of them over a 18 month period and give them one week of cultural refreshment on how we expect you to lead at Lowe's. And in every one of those sessions, we did them once a week. And sometimes more than one session, within a week, I would go down and I would take one hour every week, and do a training session on effective leadership. And part of my leadership lesson was sharing those two examples. And challenging the team on what it takes to be a leader and the courage of being empowered, and how we would have their backs if they made a decision that they truly believe was in the best interest of the customer, and best interests of competing in the marketplace. And we cycled through all of our leaders. And what was so interesting is I would be in a class, and I would have a store manager there who had three years of tenure, three months of tenure and 27 years of tenure. So we did this on purpose, we did not want to do it by tenure, or in any way segregating people, by the time they spent at Lowe's, we felt it was powerful to to create classes that had a very broad list of people. But oh, not only that, but people who had differing timeframes of tenure and time with the company to foster really interesting conversation and debate within the classes. And that was part of our transformation from a cultural and from a leadership perspective.

David Novak 11:42

That's absolutely fantastic. And, you know, so Marvin, you've been there now a couple years, and it's been a pretty tough time, obviously, with all the actions that have happened last last year. So, you know, what are you doing now to stay connected to the stores?

Marvin Ellison 11:56

Well, you know, I've learned a couple of lessons starting out as an hourly associate, I remember vividly, when I would come in, and I would clock in at the time clock at Target, and posted by the time clock was an org structure, would photos of the CEO and the executive leadership team. And I would look at that photo and that org chart every day. And I had no personal connection with any person on that organizational chart, I'd never saw him in person that never heard their voice. I never communicated with him. And as a kid in college, working hard trying to make ends meet, I just would sit back and wonder, how would it be if an hourly associate like me, someone who had ideas, someone who had suggestions could actually get access to someone sitting in one of those positions of influence? Would they listen? And what would I learn about them. And so from that, I've tried to create an environment where I eliminate the communication filters between myself and the frontline team. And so a couple of ways that I do that. First, every single Friday, I have a personal message that I give to the company, every associate in the company, including our associates, in our buying offices in China, and in our our offices in India, in the message, you know, ranges from five to 10 minutes. And what I talk about are the events of the week, that impact the company, I talk about people I've met, who have done outstanding customer service, I share those stories. I talk about things in the news that are relevant to our associates, but I just have a personal conversation with them. And within that I share my email address. So if they have a question, or if they have an issue that's not being addressed, they know how to reach me directly. And I don't have anyone that manages those emails for me, I'll look at them, I'll forward them to the appropriate person to take a look at and trust me, my associates have now keenly become aware of how to reach me because I hear from them every single day, which is exactly what my intention was. So that's number one. Number two, is on on a monthly basis. I do a televised townhall, and obviously now is virtual, where we have people submit questions in or I take questions live, I do it for an hour. I don't see the questions in advance. Because I want to have an authentic conversation with the associates, whatever they ask if I can fit it into the allotted time. You're answering we just have good back and forth dialogue. What I've learned David, you know, even if the answer is no, as long as you're answering the questions, and you're being authentic, and you're having open dialogue, sources, appreciate that.

David Novak 14:52

You know, as we were talking a little bit earlier, Marvin, you know, before he joined Lowe's, you were the chairman and CEO of JC Penney, and you had a major turnaround there. And you took JC Penney from losing, I think $5.64 a share to you're making 22 cents a chair, you generate positive cash flow, pay down a lot of debt. You did this all in four years, you're having this great success as a leader, what drove you to make the decision to leave at that time? Because you were on a roll?

Marvin Ellison 15:22

Yo, David is a great question. It's a long story. I'll give you the short version. Your image, JC Penney, I'm totally committed to the continued turnaround model wife and I, and my at the time, 16 year old daughter, we love living in Dallas, my son had relocated, and he was going to school college in Texas. And so we were planning routes. And all of a sudden, I get contacted by one of the new board members, who's leading the search for the new CEO. This is a board member whom I'd worked with in the past, who, ironically enough, it was an activist investor. So it took a position in the Home Depot years prior, and I had a chance to meet him, he had a chance to meet me. And from that there was a lot of mutual respect for both of us. And to be quite honest with you, when he first reached out to me regarding the opportunity. I wasn't interested, I wasn't interested because it wasn't part of my plan. My plan was to come to JC Penney to do all I could to help turn the business around and try to work to be as much of a blessing for the employees of the company because they've gone through difficult periods with a CEO that really put the business on the brink and in previous years, and I had made a decision not to even discuss this Lowe's opportunity with my wife, because I didn't want her to think that that we had the potential from uprooting the family again. And so the short version is my wife and I have now been together for we'll be celebrating our 30th wedding anniversary this year. So we've been together for a long time. Congrats. Thank you. And so you know, I never keep anything from her. So I finally decided to let her know, look, there's an opportunity at Lowe's, I don't want you to get concerned. I'm not going to pursue it. You know, I want to be committed to seeing through this transformation here at JC Penney, so don't get concerned about the family being uprooted. So she looked at me and she had a very interesting response. She said, Well, I guess, I guess you've changed your commitment. And you've changed the mission that we've talked about, that we're on in this life that we live in, I said, What do you mean, she said, Well, you've always said that you will be driven, your career will be driven by going to the place where you can have the greatest impact on the largest number of people. And she said last time I checked, Lowe's has more employees, larger investment pays more shareholders and a greater market presence. So don't you believe that you can have a greater impact on a larger number of people at Lowe's, and you can have JC Penney, and this is from a woman who had no desire to move. Wow. And I'm credible. And I said to her, I suppose Sharon, you're right. That's what we've said. And I said, I didn't consider that I was more concerned about the family. And she said, Let me worry about the family. You look into this opportunity. Let's we'll pray about it. We'll we'll be led, you know, by religious faith, but let's understand what we're committed to in our commitment as being the greatest blessing to the largest number of people. And from that, you know, we decided to take a look at opportunity and and here I am.

David Novak 19:09

I used to work at Pepsi and we absolutely fought coke day in and day out. And did you have any trepidation going back to the home improvement industry to Lowe's and competing against all the people you knew at Home Depot?

Marvin Ellison 19:22

The short answer is yes. It's it was part of the reason why it was never part of my long term plan to end up at a competitive but I'll be very honest with you. I had that conversation obviously, with my wife as well. And we talked about it and here's the reality I gave Home Depot to upgrade yours. I have lifelong friends there. And when Home Depot made the decision in the CEO transition to move in a different direction. You know, I went to the Chairman CEO and actually to a allowed me to stay. And I was willing to stay and not pursue any other opportunities, if I could just have some level of role expansion just so I could make a greater contribution. And do every attempt I made to try to find a way to stay, it just didn't work out. So my departure from the Home Depot was obviously my decision. But it was something that I did begrudgingly, because I love the people more so than anything, and I want to be there. So as a process, you know, going back and competing against a former company that I love so much, it came down to a very simple analogy. I grew up as the middle child of seven kids. I had two older brothers. And we would go outside, almost every day in the summer and we compete on the basketball court, we compete in a lot of different sports. I still love them. But they were, you know, competitors. When we were out there on the field of play. I had two sisters, or three sisters, rather, and we would always compete playing chess, you know, we go at it, you know, we leave the chessboard set, and we come back and finish it on the weekend. I still love them. I still think the world love them. But you know, competition is great. And it's not personal.

David Novak 21:25

You know, you started out as this for 35 hourly at Target. You come from a very humble background, you just talked about it large family, you know, how does this affect your, your thinking today, your background, your childhood? Well, I

Marvin Ellison 21:39

think in a couple of ways. You know, my dad is my hero, and I'm blessed. And he's, he's still he's still alive. And with me, he's had some health issues. But but he is he is doing well. And I'm proud that I can pick up the phone and call him I can go in to Sam. But the reason why that's a relevant point is my dad never graduated from high school. He was raised by his great aunt and uncle, and they will raise on the farm. They were sharecroppers. And that's all he knew. But he had desires to do a lot more. But he ultimately had to drop out of high school because his great uncle became ill he had to get the crops in. And that weighed more on the relevance of the family than him staying in school and getting a high school diploma. He ultimately met my mother, they got married, started a family and he never decided to go back. But this is a man, along with my mother who raised seven kids. And when I was born, they were sharecroppers, and we're not talking about owning a farm, we're talking about, you know, the classic, Jim Crow era sharecropping, where you are leasing land, you are borrowing money, to buy seed, fertilizer, you putting your labor and and at the end of the season, you never get out of debt, because you never make enough to pay for the leased land. You never make enough to pay for the seed and fertilizer that you borrow. And so you're in perpetual debt. And it's almost your type of indentured servitude. And that's, and that's what my parents were doing for a living when I was born in 1965. And so the reason why that is relevant, is because my dad ultimately worked his way from the field because he found out that he could sell and he started selling life insurance. And back then the life insurance industry was very segregated. And so you could only sell he could into black communities door to door but he was he had a great gift of gab. He was a handsome guy, and he was really good at selling and so he worked his way from the cotton fields, from sharecropper to being a to being an insurance salesman to own his own a really small agency, and helped us to move from poverty, to lower middle class. But ultimately, you know, we felt we fell on hard economic times. And I remember at one point in my life, and this is not an exaggeration. For almost three years, he worked three jobs. He worked as an insurance agent, he worked on an overnight cleaning crew at a local supermarket, and he worked the lunch hour at Romana and as a busboy. He did that for almost three years, almost killed himself. But he did that because he refused to take government assistance. He felt like that he was an able bodied man. And if he was able to go get up and go to work, then he felt that others deserved the government assistance because as an able bodied man he wants to provide for his families. So why is that relevant to your question? Because when I go out to the stores, and I see associates, loading trucks, pushing carts, unloading trucks, mopping the floor, I see my parents I I see individuals who are trying to raise kids make ends meet, by taking on any job they can find fine, that is honest. And that allows them to do their part to help their families survive. And so I have an enormous amount of respect for all of these associates that I have at all levels, because they remind me of my parents, they remind me of me, you know, unloading trucks and mopping floors, and driving trucks and all the jobs I've had over my career. And so I have a lot of respect for what they have to say, I have a lot of respect for the life that they're living is one of the reasons why we try to be philanthropic as a company. It's also one of the reasons why, you know, we paid out over $800 million this year, and special bonuses and financial assistance, specifically for ally associates, because I really, and truly understand the life that they're living because I lived it for the majority of my life, seeing my parents struggle and having my own personal struggles. And, and I am glad that that's part of my life journey, because it gives me great perspective, you know, sitting in the current position on a man,

David Novak 26:16

you know, Marvin, that that story really touches my heart because my mom and dad came up very humble background, always remember going down our stores of pizza at Taco Bell, and KFC and I'd see my mom and dad, they had a high school education, they worked their tail off, we lived in a trailer coming up. But man, they work their tail off. And these these people know their stuff. You know, if you just listen to him, you can you can gain a lot. So I really love that that story. You know, Marvin, you talked about authenticity in terms of your communication. When did you ever you know, to authenticity is a big buzzword these days. When did you? When did you get, you know, the sense of the importance of authenticity of being true to yourself as a leader?

Marvin Ellison 26:59

You know, David is this is a great question. And I have to go back a lot of years. But this is a story that I've shared numerous times and management, training classes, I was working for target at the time, I was a store security manager. And I was in Memphis, Tennessee. And I happened to be in a new store we had just opened and it was myself and three peers in the same position, we were going through a series of audits to make sure that the store's operating procedures were being followed. And so we're taking a break. So we're in one of the offices and what as typically happens, you know, when, when for people, you're taking a break, you know, at that level, we were just complaining about everything that the company was doing wrong. I mean, we had issues with pay and benefits and compensation, we had issues with systems, we had all types of concerns. And we were there just venting about how things should be a lot better. And within a couple of minutes of us kind of commiserating in the office, the phone rings, and someone alerts us that the Vice President for our function has showed up in the store unannounced. And this is a true story. And he wanted to come in and meet us because he found out I got four people from my department in the store, what a great opportunity for me to do a quick, you know, feedback session. So he comes in, and he meets us introduces himself and we're like, we're totally stunned because me Memphis was way off the beaten path. And, you know, the corporate office was minutes, Minneapolis, Minnesota. And so he was there. And the first question he asked after introducing himself was, look, give me some feedback on how I can help, what's working, what's not, I just want to take advantage of being here to understand if there are any issues that I can address for you. And of course, I mean, we got issues fresh on my mind, we just spent the last 30 minutes, you know, listing out a litany of issues that we will concern with. And before I could say anything, you know, my peers jumped out and said, Nope, things are great. We love working here, you know, thank you for all that the company is doing, you know, to make this, you know, a great company, for us to work and I'm thinking to myself, well, that's not true. But these guys were more tenured than I was. So I was I figured that maybe they were just being more politically astute than me. So I just probably should shut up and just just listen. But they kept pulling it on, you know, and he kept asking, and no one would give him feedback. And I just couldn't take any longer. And I just raised my hand and said, Look, I got one issue. And I said, there's a new check acceptance system that is really not working. We've gotten a lot of customer complaints. And and I'm not sure that you're aware, but I'm concerned that if we don't address this, you'll we're going to lose customers and he wants to he wanted more information. So I share more information. I gave him more examples. And he paused for a second so let me make a phone call. So he turned around, he made a phone call and my three periods gave me the evil eye because they're thinking you got us all in trouble. If you're telling this guy about this issue, and he turns around, he said, Well look, a couple of things. He said, I just made a call, I found out that, that this system that you're concerned about is actually a pilot. And I just call it a corporate office. And I asked him to shut it down until we can learn more about the negative customer applications. And he looked at me and he said, Marvin, I've been out visiting stores all week. And you're the first person to have the courage to tell me how bad the system was operating. He said, so I would like to come and visit you at your store today before I go back to the corporate office, and spend a little time getting to know you. So this was a breakthrough for me, because I am way off the beaten path. I'm in Memphis, Tennessee. And now my vice president of my function wants to actually spend time with me. So he comes to visit me my stores is in the most urban area of Memphis. And he comes out to visit he spends time, it was a great visit, we shake hands, and I'm thinking what a great day. And I believe nothing would ever come of it. Well, two weeks later, I get a invitation from the corporate office to be a part of the company's newly formed Diversity Committee. And I was recommended by that Vice President to come in. And so I fly to Minneapolis a second time in my life I've ever been on an airplane, I fly to Minneapolis, I'm a part of that committee. While I'm up there, I've meet executives from the Florida market, target was just opening up in Florida. They were impressed with me. And the next thing I knew I'm promoted to a district level position, working in Florida.

David Novak 31:39

So really just standing up for what you believe having the courage to share your thoughts really kind of unlocked your career track right

Marvin Ellison 31:46

here, David, I learned from that event is that we have two choices as leaders, we can we can stand out or we can blend in. And I decided you to stand out not because I wanted to be recognized not because I wanted this leader to remember me because I want to solve a problem. I mean, I was really concerned with the issue. And I felt that we have someone in our store that has the ability to hopefully solve this. And so I decided to stand out for the right reasons. And in from that, the trajectory of my career change. I ended up five years later working at the corporate office, guess who I was reporting to our reporting to that vice president because he tried to track my career until the day he retired. And so that's just one of those stories that taught me the lesson about being authentic, about being courageous, but also having your facts and being able to have recommendations on how you solve problems.

David Novak 32:51

You know, your business cold at a you you've been in retail for you know, for a long time, but you really know your business, you're really passionate about it. And you've delivered consistent results throughout your career. What's your view of of the jobs that you've taken as you've climbed the ladder?

Marvin Ellison 33:09

Well, I mean, I have, I have a really interesting career path. And, and you could best describe my career path in life as a study of resilience, and taking tough assignments. And let me tell you something else, that's a little known fact, I was thinking about the other day, in the last 25 years, every position that I've ever accepted, including my current position, I'll replace someone who was fired or forced out last 25 years. In addition to that, I can recall at least 10 separate opportunities that I was passed over for promotion. And in most cases, I felt I deserved a job. So I've had a lot of ups and downs in this very, very blessed career that I've had. But resilience is one of the key hallmarks alarm here today, because I've had lots of opportunities to just put my head down and, and feel sorry for myself. And I've had a lot of tough assignments. And I learned early on, that the best way to move forward is sometimes to take assignments that no one else wants, that no one else is attracted to. That people look looking frowned upon because they don't think that there's a pathway to success. But when you don't have sponsors, when you don't have an Ivy League education, when you don't have mentors with influence, results matter. And so I've taken a lot of those tough assignments because I want to demonstrate that I can leave so and I don't regret it. I mean, it's allowed me to learn a lot of skills, obviously make mistakes along the way. But it's kind of hard to me and I allowed me to learn a lot about leadership and a lot about how to solve problems. And and I wouldn't trade one day because it's preparing me for my current assignment.

David Novak 35:10

How do you think about failure? You know, you've had some ups and downs, obviously. But you know, when you think about your organization, how do you how do you think about failure?

Marvin Ellison 35:20

Well, you, to me, failure is something that you shouldn't frown upon. It's, it's one of the best ways to learn. And, and what I say to myself into my team is, you know, the only way you don't fail if you don't get out of bed in the morning, because you're going to, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to have disappointments, and you're going to have failures. The question is, what do you do about it? What did you learn from it? How will it help you to be a better leader? How will it allow you to be more effective when a similar situation happens? You know, in the future, and I'll tell you real quick story when I was a district level leader, you know, at Target, I interviewed for original position, and it's one of those situations where everyone tells you the job is yours. You know, this is just a formality. And of course, I didn't get the job. So I go in I interview, I'm devastated that the job is actually given to someone who I am mentoring, you know, someone who is seeking me for for counsel and advice actually gets the position that they didn't even apply for. And so when I go to my functional VP, and I asked the question, what happened? You know, he explained to me that you're in the process was a very influential senior vice president, who simply didn't believe I was ready. And was the absolute reason why I didn't get the job because no one had the political clout to override his objection. And so I'm devastated by this. And of course, I'm thinking, why doesn't the guy like me? So I go through all the, the obvious thoughts in my head, but then I decided to do something different. And this is this is learning from failure. I decided to pick up the phone, call the Senior Vice President and asked him would he be willing to mentor me? Because I was, I was interested to understand through what lens? Was he looking at me through? And what did he see that others did not see? And what could I learn from it? And from that became one of the most interesting leadership learnings of my career because I spent time with him and he was gracious enough to accept, you know, my request, although he was very surprised that I was asking, and, and from that, he taught me one critical lesson. And he said to me, when Marva Warren reasons why you did not get my support for this position, is because you have a history of always being the loudest voice in the room, you always try to have an answer to every question. And he said, You have to understand when to talk, when to listen, when to lead, and when to follow. And, and that was a great lesson. And so from his critique, you know, I worked hard to improve my leadership, improve my engagement with people understanding how to not be so dominant, you know, in meeting settings, and when the next promotional opportunity came about, this guy went from my greatest attracted to my greatest promoter, and as time as life would have it, use go years go by, and he reaches out to me when I'm at the Home Depot and at JC Penney, and I'm helping him with career issues that he's dealing with, you know, at this point in his life. So it's interesting how our careers converge is is, for me, it was a great learning. It was It was humbling. But I teach a lot of, you know, my team members and young managers, I'm mentoring a coaching that you have to try to learn from every failure because it's oftentimes not just about you, it's about how you're perceived. And it's about understanding how you can continue to get better. So that's just one of those many examples of failure that I tried to learn from

David Novak 39:34

you or even as you were coming up as a, you know, African American executive, you know, I'm sure you many times you were the the only black person in the in the room, you know, what's that like? And what can leaders learn from that?

Marvin Ellison 39:49

What David is it's been a it's been a it's been an interesting journey. And I think what you can learn it goes back to what I said previously, you can decide to stand out All blend in. And I'll tell you, I like I got 1000 stories. I love these stories. So you know, I'm in Memphis, Tennessee, and I get promoted to the corporate office in Minneapolis, Minnesota, I never worked in a corporate office before. And back then it was a, you know, shirt and tie a suit and tie, corporate environment. And so I'd go up. And, you know, and I'm kind of trying to transition into this new environment. And to your question, you know, during the 90s, during that time, there was virtually no diversity. At the corporate office, there's no one that looks like me to very few people who has spent a lot of their career in the field. And there's nobody from the south. So I'm literally looking around. And I believe and feel like I am the only person in that entire corporate environment that looks that thinks or has a background like me, and I remember about four months into this, I go home, my wife is pregnant, we're up there by herself. And she's asking me, how's it going to work your poor, low stress? And I said, Well, you know, Sharon, the job isn't that difficult. from the technical perspective, I said, I know what I'm doing. I said, I just don't feel like I fit in. I said, I don't feel like culturally, this is a place where I can be successful. And she looked at me and she said, Well, let me give you some advice, why don't just try being yourself. Just relax, and just be yourself and see how that works out. And David, I remember something that my dad had said to my siblings, and it seems like 100 times, and he would say, you know, we may not have the nicest car, we may not live in a nice house, you may not wear the nicest clothes every day. But always remember, no one can beat you being you. No one can beat you being you. So whenever you feel as though that you're not achieving the thing that you believe you deserve. Just focus on being the best you can be. And I just give my dad credit for so many, brilliant, you know, points of wisdom that that he gave myself and my siblings. And so in that room, my wife reminded me of that teaching. So I decided, You know what, let me be me. So, you know, I had changed the way I dress, you know, because most of the white guys are wearing khaki pants and penny loafers. And you know, and I converted to fit I want to fit in. But what I realized is that by fitting in, I was actually working two jobs, I was working the job I was being paid to do. And then I was working a job being someone that I wasn't. And so So I was doing double duty while everyone else was doing single duty. And I decide, You know what, I'm going to dress professional, but I'm going to dress the way I'm comfortable. So yeah, I'd wear a shirt and a tie. But I would work in the style that I felt best fit, my personality, my ethnicity, and my style. And I knew to feel and I would. So I decided to go up there. And when I sat in a meeting, if there was something that I felt didn't support to feel, I would raise that point, but I'd raise it with facts, and I would raise it in a very constructive way. And then I felt like you know what, I'm the only black person up here, let me provide some diversity perspective, to ensure we're making the right decisions for this consumer group. And so I would share thoughts and those ideas about the black community in ways we could be more effective. And, and before I knew it, people will gravitate gravitating toward me, they wanted to know what I thought they were inviting me to be a part of project groups and focus groups, because I no longer showed up as a commodity. You know, when you are like everyone else, you are a commodity you commoditizing yourself. But I just when I decided to stand out, people were attracted to that, because they were interested in what I had to say because it was unique, it was refreshing, and it was scarce. And I learned from that, you know, as a as a black man in corporate America, as a black executive operating in a world that I don't have a lot of people that look like me, the best thing I can do is be the best possible most authentic me that I can be in a way that is again, authentic, in a way that is in a way that progressive, but in a way that is educational that helps make the organization better by bringing my unique learnings, my unique life and my unique perspective, you know, to the conversation so it can hopefully allow us to make better decisions that that was a great lesson that I learned and I've never forgotten that lesson.

David Novak 44:51

I love that idea of being the best you you could be you know, I wish I had a better father. He's a very wise person. No question about that. You know, and you In 2020, we all witnessed the, you know, the tragic murder of George Floyd and, you know, all the issues around social injustice have really come to the forefront as a black leader. Do you feel that puts more pressure on you in any, any way? And what are you doing about it? Has it has it affected your leadership?

Marvin Ellison 45:21

Well, I think, look, I think there's an obligation it for lack of a better word that, that I have to make sure that I educate the people around me about these issues. And so the first thing that I did after the world and myself viewed that horrific video was to bring my entire senior leadership team together, and have a conversation about race in America, have a conversation about policing, and to share some stories with them, of things that's happened to me, happened to my son, who's a young black man, and happened to people in my family. So they can understand that this is not simply an isolated incident, but it's a systemic issue that exists in our society. But in addition to that, I wanted them to understand that we all play a role in making this country better. And part of the role we play is by having a willingness to create a comfortable environment to have uncomfortable conversations. And I was given him an example of creating a comfortable environment to have an uncomfortable conversation. Because too many of them was the first time that any black leader had sat them down and had a very candid conversation about how this not only not how this affects society, let's talk about how this affects me. Let me give you specific examples, anecdotes, stories about things that I've personally experienced. And then let's talk through these things. And then my question to them, is, how often are you sitting down with people on your team that looks like me, that are black, Latino, etc, that may have a different view of the world and the world may have a different view of them, are you sitting down and having conversations with them about what they are experiencing, and what we can do what you can do to help them possibly to solve and resolve these issues. And so part of what I did is I spoke out publicly, but but more of my time was spent on two areas. And that is trying to make sure as a company that Lowe's understands and values diversity at all levels. And also to make sure that I continue to educate my children, because they have to live in a society, they have to operate in a society. And I want them to understand what it means to them, and to try to provide some level of wisdom and education to them. And that's what I've tried to do. Like I'm blessed, and honored, and privileged to be one of a very small number of black CEOs of public companies, specifically fortune 500 companies. But I'm also wise enough to know that because the number is so small, it screams missed opportunity. There are so many talented, capable leaders out there of different ethnicities that are being overlooked. Because the assessment process is flawed. And it's not understanding of picking up leadership traits that people like me bring to the table each and every day. And I'm just blessed and honored that the board and the decision makers at Lowe's soffit to give me this opportunity. And I'm even more grateful that we put an incredible team of leaders together, and we are moving this business forward. And we're making a difference in the lives of a lot of people.

David Novak 49:14

Well, you're obviously doing that. And you know, hats off to you for that and your team. And it's been really enlightening to have this conversation with you, Marvin, I want to have a little bit of fun before we before we break this off. So I got a lightning round of questions. I want to ask you real quick. What three words best describe you

Marvin Ellison 49:33

have faith, family and company?

David Novak 49:37

What gives you the most joy at work?

Marvin Ellison 49:41

Teaching training and engaging with the associates.

David Novak 49:45

Your biggest pet peeve?

Marvin Ellison 49:47

Don't be late.

David Novak 49:48

If you could be one person for a day, who would it be and why?

Marvin Ellison 49:52

You know what, David? I'm a I'm a I live with charm lives. I got a beautiful wife of 30 years to great It's my dad went from being a sharecropper to seeing one of his kids run to Fortune 500 companies. There's not a lot of people I'm willing to trade with.

David Novak 50:09

Like that Kayne brown song. I'm already got Heaven on Earth Theory. That's great. What's something about you that few people would know?

Marvin Ellison 50:17

I'm a, I'm a naturally extreme introvert.

David Novak 50:21

Wow, I would have never guessed that. But do you have any hidden talents.

Marvin Ellison 50:26

I'm a bass player. I'm a musician, my family. When I grew up, we had a gospel singing group. And we traveled all over the southeast made a few albums and records and I work in the studio work in college as one of my many ways of financial support. So I'm a bass player and I have both my kids are really good musicians also, and I got some brothers who are world class musicians

David Novak 50:52

do you do you perform at Lowe's and the big social events there?

Marvin Ellison 50:55

I did. I've performed last year with a group of other officers that we get together and surprise all of our store managers at our at our annual sales meeting. And we had had a great time and I made them the commitment that if we made sales plan for 2020, I would force all of my direct reports to join me on stage to perform and and so it's going to be a real interesting event when I make that happen.

David Novak 51:21

I'm sure it'll happen to you know, and and, you know, it's it's interesting that you know, you you've got this great musician background and, you know, you seem to have a little bit of self deprecating humor, how important do you think that is, as a leader?

Marvin Ellison 51:36

Look, I think is very important. Like I told the team coming out of 2020, you know, we're gonna spend a lot of time here at work 2021, we're going to dedicate a lot of our energy, we're going to spend your hours away from our family, we may as well enjoy it. So it's good. It's good to laugh. It's good to stop and smell the roses. And it's even better to be a blessing to the people around you. So I try to keep it light. We have, you know, tough decisions to make. We were running a big company. But I think it's probably not a smart idea to take yourself too serious.

David Novak 52:11

I noticed another little known fact about you is you were Father of the Year 2017. So congratulation for that. That's obviously very important. Do you have any tips for people on work life balance? I mean, you obviously have been able to do both, you know, build your career and have a great family. Well,

Marvin Ellison 52:29

David, I have a really, I have a list of very simple philosophies. And one is this, there's one surefire way for me to know what is important to you and your life. And I simply look at your calendar, if it's not on your calendar is probably not important to you. And so you can look at my calendar, and you're gonna see, every birthday, every anniversary, you're gonna see, back when my kids were in high school, you got to see, you know, sports events, you go see Parent Teachers conferences, you're gonna see musical recitals. I never missed a parent teacher's conference. I never miss a recital. I never miss a sporting event of any of my kids and all the various jobs that I've had, because my dad never missed hours because he was a salesman, so his schedule was flexible. My mom worked at a factory so she couldn't get off work. But my dad had enough flexibility that he he attended every parent teachers conference, and my parents attended every sporting event, and every other, you know, event that we had as kids and I believe I owe old that Alicia, my kids and it's all about prioritization is all about scheduling. And it's all about balance. And when people say there's no such thing as work balance, work life balance, I say hogwash. It is absolutely true. I rarely meet someone that has a miserable home life that has a great work life. I think there I think balance is required in order for you to sustain both or in a way that you can live a productive life.

David Novak 54:03

You know, I you know, I always felt that your the results that you generate helped you get balanced, do you what's your view on that?

Marvin Ellison 54:11

I would say absolutely. At the end of the day. If if you're a store manager and you have two assistant managers and one person is never on time, never Mr. Expectations, results are poor. And you have another that's always on time, takes, you know, additional assignments, leads well has great results and someone comes in and wants to get, you know, emergency time off to go do something with their family. I guarantee you, you're more likely to give it to the person with outstanding results than the person that's never delivering on expectations. And so I'm a huge believer that performance is the great equalizer. And so for me, I always focus first on performance but because if I can perform at a high level, if I can deliver results, then I expect to have preferential treatment from my boss based on the fact that they see me as a as an indispensable part of the team versus the alternative. So performance absolutely creates work life balance.

David Novak 55:18

You know, and Marvin, you've mentioned faith a couple of times in this conversation, you're a man of faith, and you're public about it. And, you know, that takes a bit of courage to What's your perspective on on faith in the workplace?

Marvin Ellison 55:33

Well, look, you know, David, is pretty straightforward, you know, my faith grounds me, it defines who I am, I believe that it's important for each individual, to make their own decision about how they will reflect their faith at work, and how they reflected and how they live their lives, you know, for me, you know, I just go by the mantra of just letting my light shine. And people can see me, they can see, the joy that I operate with, they can see the success I've been blessed and fortunate to have, they can see my family life, they can see my work life. And from that, if they want to know why I have this joy, why my success, you know, has been relatively consistent. Although I've had plenty of life's challenges, why I'm always a glass half full, I'll be more than happy to share with them that is primarily grounded in my faith. I don't think you need to go around preaching, I don't think you need to go around, trying to force your beliefs on individuals. But I am perfectly fine and acceptable with anyone have any faith of allowing that to be their their grounding factor in who they are, and how they operate and allowing that to drop their belief system. And I made a promise to God a long time ago that if he blessed me to continue to perform and to reach your levels in the corporate world have influenced that I was going to be true to who I am. But I was going to also make sure that I'd be a good steward to the business, and that I drive all the necessary results and take care of people because at the end of the day, that's what I'm paid to do unpaid to create shareholder value, to create a great company for Sosa's, to work, to operate with integrity, and to make sure as a company that we are one of the best performing in the marketplace, and I can do all those things, you know, lead with my faith and continue to make my family a priority.

David Novak 57:43

Well, Marvin, I can tell you, your your light has definitely been shining this past of 45 minutes or so. And I really, really appreciate you taking the time to be with us. And congratulations on your success at Lowe's, you are driving shareholder value, you're getting that business really moving forward. And you've got a great team. So congratulations. And thanks again.

Marvin Ellison 58:04

It's a pleasure to talk to you. And again, I want to thank you for your commitment to leadership development. It is something that I admire so much. I wish you well. And again, and thank you for acknowledging the team that I have here. Because you know, as a former CEO, nothing can happen without a great group of men and women around you. So God bless you and have a great rest of 2021.

David Novak 58:36

Now, look, we all face tough situations. But the hard truth is most people shy away from them, or just avoid them altogether. And that's natural. But man, I really admire how Marvin just grabs those moments by the horns. And Marvin teaches us the courage it takes to stand up and stand out in those tough situations may be exactly what we need to make our market work this week as part of your weekly personal development plan. I want you to consider something, is there an issue in your organization that keeps getting swept under the rug because no one is willing to address it? What would it look like if you just stepped up and tackle that challenge? To bring it to the attention of the people around you to bring facts and constructive ideas for a real solution? Now I know that's a big question. Heck, it may be way bigger than your week. But I hope it gets you thinking about the courage that we all need to have as leaders to tackle the tough assignments the way that Marvin has throughout his career. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that the great leaders tackle the tough assignments. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode. that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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