[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_134":-5,"_135":-5,"_136":137,"_138":139,"_140":141},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":-5,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":44,"_45":-5,"_46":47,"_48":49,"_50":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1142/decide-what-kind-of-leader-youre-going-to-be","id",1142,"title","Decide what kind of leader you’re going to be","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.140\nYou know that kind of takes me back to when I first became president of Pepsi\n\n2\n00:00:04.140 --> 00:00:05.040\ncode division\n\n3\n00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:07.560\nit was KFC and and you know\n\n4\n00:00:07.560 --> 00:00:11.230\nI always wanted to be a president of a division and now I had a chance to do\n\n5\n00:00:11.230 --> 00:00:12.180\nthat job\n\n6\n00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:15.560\nSo I'm on this flight and I asked myself this really\n\n7\n00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:19.320\nImportant question which is what kind of president am I gonna be?\n\n8\n00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:23.240\nAnd I thought about all the presidents of the Pepsi code divisions and they\n\n9\n00:00:23.240 --> 00:00:25.240\nwere very formal they were MBAs\n\n10\n00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:27.440\nThey were very serious, you know\n\n11\n00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:31.670\nThey kind of had a little bit of emotional detachment from the the people that\n\n12\n00:00:31.670 --> 00:00:35.080\nthey they led so that they could make the so-called tough calls\n\n13\n00:00:35.080 --> 00:00:39.600\nAnd I thought about myself and I said, you know, I'm not really that kind of\n\n14\n00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:40.040\nperson\n\n15\n00:00:40.040 --> 00:00:45.050\nYou know, I like getting emotionally engaged with people. You know, I like to\n\n16\n00:00:45.050 --> 00:00:45.520\nhave fun\n\n17\n00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.480\nYou know, I've got some blue suits\n\n18\n00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:52.020\nBut I usually take the code off and when I'm walking around the office, you\n\n19\n00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:53.360\nknow with my red tie\n\n20\n00:00:53.360 --> 00:00:57.480\nThat's already got a couple spots on it my shirt tails hanging out and you know\n\n21\n00:00:57.480 --> 00:01:00.440\nThat's just who I am so I kind of said to myself\n\n22\n00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:02.880\nWhat kind of president you gonna be?\n\n23\n00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.120\nI said well, I'm gonna be the same kind of president that I have been leader\n\n24\n00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.960\nThat's gotten me to this place and I'm gonna be true to who I am and\n\n25\n00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:13.520\nI think\n\n26\n00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:20.820\nYou know being true to who I am being open being vulnerable being transparent,\n\n27\n00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:21.080\nyou know\n\n28\n00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:26.860\nBeing honest with people not worried about getting close to people because I\n\n29\n00:01:26.860 --> 00:01:29.360\nmay have to fire them someday, you know\n\n30\n00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:34.920\nContinuing to lead like I've always led was the key to my success and\n\n31\n00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:39.920\nI think once you do that people really will invest in you as well\n\n32\n00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:43.040\nAnd that didn't mean that I didn't make the tough decisions\n\n33\n00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:47.490\nI did I probably fired more people than most people because I did have high\n\n34\n00:01:47.490 --> 00:01:48.200\nstandards\n\n35\n00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:54.280\nBut I always did it with as much respect as I could give to other people and\n\n36\n00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:55.040\nyou know what?\n\n37\n00:01:55.040 --> 00:02:00.200\nWhen those tough situations happen, you know, I could really sit down and have\n\n38\n00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.400\na learning conversation\n\n39\n00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.560\nNot only learning that would go to the person who might be getting the tough\n\n40\n00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:06.160\nfeedback\n\n41\n00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:09.090\nBut also learning that would come back to me that would help me be a good\n\n42\n00:02:09.090 --> 00:02:09.520\nleader\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",423892,"end_time",553605,"keywords","slug","decide-what-kind-of-leader-youre-going-to-be","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","iB8F002m6Sfzkn00n6otgUMPBaFPiFOH2p700ueUCHPDK00","mux_asset_id","WJWVMmdz4SqH87l8AjDuEL5YEPmo7mokS9FTcb6801xE","leader_id",154,"episode_id",306,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:38:59.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1142/decide-what-kind-of-leader-youre-going-to-be","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":35,"_97":98,"_99":100,"_101":102,"_25":103,"_104":105,"_59":106,"_56":107,"_108":109,"_66":110,"_38":111,"_112":-5,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_113":114,"_85":115,"_43":116,"_117":118,"_119":120,"_45":-5,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_89":125,"_50":-5},"episode",{"_13":37,"_15":51,"_26":52,"_17":-5,"_53":-5,"_18":54,"_20":55,"_56":57,"_58":-5,"_59":57,"_60":-5,"_61":62,"_63":64,"_65":-5,"_66":-5,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_34":35,"_38":71,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_72":73,"_74":75,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":-5,"_81":-5,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_45":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_50":-5},"og_image_media","3 More Questions (Yamini Rangan) with David Novak and Koula Callahan","3-more-questions-yamini-rangan-with-david-novak-and-koula-callahan","summary","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.680\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n2\n00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:09.140\nI'm Kula Kallihian here to bring you another edition of three more questions\n\n3\n00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:09.720\nwith David\n\n4\n00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:10.720\nNovak.\n\n5\n00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:12.000\nDavid, we've got a fun one today.\n\n6\n00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.880\nI'm excited to be back on the show with you.\n\n7\n00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.720\nWell, I'm excited too, Kula, because we're going to dive into my conversation\n\n8\n00:00:17.720 --> 00:00:18.480\nwith Yamani\n\n9\n00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:23.920\nRangan, the CEO of HubSpot, and she is absolute dynamo.\n\n10\n00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:26.000\nAnd I just love this podcast.\n\n11\n00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:27.600\nI know you've loved this podcast.\n\n12\n00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.710\nAnd my first question today, we'll get a little bit more into why you love this\n\n13\n00:00:31.710 --> 00:00:32.240\npodcast with\n\n14\n00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:33.240\nYamani.\n\n15\n00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:40.840\nSo let's just dive right in.\n\n16\n00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:45.040\nQuestion number one, David, ever since you recorded this podcast, you have not\n\n17\n00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:45.560\nstopped\n\n18\n00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:47.360\ntalking about Yamani Rangan.\n\n19\n00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:52.040\nI mean, she light up like a Christmas tree every time someone says her name.\n\n20\n00:00:52.040 --> 00:00:53.720\nWhat impressed you most about her?\n\n21\n00:00:53.720 --> 00:00:57.530\nWell, I think what really impressed me the most is that she was a chief\n\n22\n00:00:57.530 --> 00:00:59.240\ncustomer officer.\n\n23\n00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:03.200\nAnd she continues to be a chief customer officer as the CEO.\n\n24\n00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:09.270\nYou know, this woman knew as much about me as I knew about her when we got on\n\n25\n00:01:09.270 --> 00:01:10.320\nthe podcast.\n\n26\n00:01:10.320 --> 00:01:11.920\nNow I do a lot of research.\n\n27\n00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:16.560\nI really take a lot of pride in learning about the people that I'm going to\n\n28\n00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:16.920\ninterview.\n\n29\n00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.160\nAnd she had done her research too.\n\n30\n00:01:19.160 --> 00:01:21.520\nShe had looked at some of my books.\n\n31\n00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:23.200\nShe'd been on Wikipedia.\n\n32\n00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:24.360\nShe'd gone online.\n\n33\n00:01:24.360 --> 00:01:25.680\nShe'd done all these things.\n\n34\n00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:27.440\nAnd she knew so much about me.\n\n35\n00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:32.830\nAnd I have to tell you, her preparation was so amazing that it almost startled\n\n36\n00:01:32.830 --> 00:01:33.440\nme and it\n\n37\n00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:38.620\nreally put pressure on me because now I not only wanted to do a great podcast,\n\n38\n00:01:38.620 --> 00:01:39.280\nI wanted\n\n39\n00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.400\nto do a super great podcast.\n\n40\n00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:45.840\nI wanted to make sure that I didn't let her down, that I actually met her high\n\n41\n00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:47.000\nexpectations.\n\n42\n00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:52.040\nAnd it really kind of showed me why she's such a great salesperson.\n\n43\n00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:55.300\nBecause you know, she gets prepared for her customers.\n\n44\n00:01:55.300 --> 00:01:58.000\nShe understands how her customers think.\n\n45\n00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.560\nShe learns about her customers.\n\n46\n00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:03.690\nAnd then when she gets in that meeting with the customer, she absolutely blows\n\n47\n00:02:03.690 --> 00:02:04.280\nthem away\n\n48\n00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:08.720\nwith her knowledge of the business and the knowledge of that person.\n\n49\n00:02:08.720 --> 00:02:10.920\nAnd that's her secret.\n\n50\n00:02:10.920 --> 00:02:14.770\nAnd let me tell you something, that is a tremendous secret for everybody to\n\n51\n00:02:14.770 --> 00:02:16.720\nthink about in sales\n\n52\n00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:19.720\nor whatever function you might be in.\n\n53\n00:02:19.720 --> 00:02:21.000\nGet prepared.\n\n54\n00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.960\nIf you're going to have a meeting with somebody, make sure you know everything\n\n55\n00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:25.680\nyou can about\n\n56\n00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:29.870\nwhat you're going to talk about, who you're going to be talking to, and really\n\n57\n00:02:29.870 --> 00:02:30.480\nget ready\n\n58\n00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:36.920\nto make a real positive difference in that person's life and that business's\n\n59\n00:02:36.920 --> 00:02:37.880\nresults.\n\n60\n00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:39.480\nAnd you're going to have a lot of success.\n\n61\n00:02:39.480 --> 00:02:40.720\nShe has proved positive that.\n\n62\n00:02:40.720 --> 00:02:43.120\nYou can see, I got pretty excited just talking about her.\n\n63\n00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.120\nYou did.\n\n64\n00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:48.400\nThat preparation that she showed me also showed me a tremendous amount of\n\n65\n00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:49.160\nrespect.\n\n66\n00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:51.400\nI mean, she respected me.\n\n67\n00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:53.520\nShe took the time to learn about me.\n\n68\n00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:55.160\nThat was recognition.\n\n69\n00:02:55.160 --> 00:02:58.560\nYou know, and I think everybody likes recognition like that.\n\n70\n00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.640\nI love seeing you get so excited talking about Yomany, but also talking about\n\n71\n00:03:02.640 --> 00:03:03.920\nhow coming prepared\n\n72\n00:03:03.920 --> 00:03:07.990\nto meetings or conversations or one on ones with the people that you manage,\n\n73\n00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:08.280\ncoming to\n\n74\n00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.400\nthose meetings prepared shows such an immense amount of respect that you have\n\n75\n00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:13.560\nfor that person.\n\n76\n00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.050\nBecause really what everybody is vying for in this world, whether it's from\n\n77\n00:03:17.050 --> 00:03:17.800\nyour consumers\n\n78\n00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:19.800\nor your employees is your time.\n\n79\n00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.890\nAnd if someone is willing to give up an hour of their time to get to know you\n\n80\n00:03:22.890 --> 00:03:23.560\nand to record\n\n81\n00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.610\na podcast episode, showing them that you respect their time enough to do all\n\n82\n00:03:27.610 --> 00:03:28.480\nthis research\n\n83\n00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:31.400\nabout them really goes a long way.\n\n84\n00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:32.400\nAbsolutely.\n\n85\n00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.390\nAnd what I really think it taught me was when someone does that kind of\n\n86\n00:03:36.390 --> 00:03:37.320\npreparation for\n\n87\n00:03:37.320 --> 00:03:42.040\nyou, then you want to do the very best you can to make them look as good as\n\n88\n00:03:42.040 --> 00:03:43.120\nthey possibly\n\n89\n00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:44.120\ncan.\n\n90\n00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:45.120\nQuestion number two.\n\n91\n00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:49.600\nYomany came into the CEO role in a bit of an unorthodox manner.\n\n92\n00:03:49.600 --> 00:03:52.720\nShe took over as CEO from the founder of HubSpot.\n\n93\n00:03:52.720 --> 00:03:57.800\nAnd in the episode, you asked her about how she became her own CEO and the\n\n94\n00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:58.640\nfootsteps of\n\n95\n00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:00.880\nthe founder she took over from.\n\n96\n00:04:00.880 --> 00:04:04.620\nAnd she said what helped her most was focusing on the future of HubSpot and\n\n97\n00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:06.040\nthen working backwards\n\n98\n00:04:06.040 --> 00:04:10.640\nfrom that vision to create the reality of the company she wanted to lead.\n\n99\n00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:15.100\nDavid, what other advice can you give CEOs who are taking over from founders of\n\n100\n00:04:15.100 --> 00:04:15.920\ncompanies,\n\n101\n00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:19.560\nparticularly in a scenario when the company is healthy and thriving?\n\n102\n00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.990\nWell, I think when you take over for a founder, you're obviously taking over\n\n103\n00:04:22.990 --> 00:04:23.680\nfor somebody\n\n104\n00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:29.080\nwho's had enormous success and gotten the company to where it is today.\n\n105\n00:04:29.080 --> 00:04:35.200\nAnd I think the most important thing you can do is recognize that your job now\n\n106\n00:04:35.200 --> 00:04:35.880\nis this\n\n107\n00:04:35.880 --> 00:04:42.160\nnew CEO, this new leader, and I think this goes for when you take over a new\n\n108\n00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:42.960\nteam.\n\n109\n00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:47.880\nAnd let's say you take over a team and that team had a really highly popular\n\n110\n00:04:47.880 --> 00:04:48.600\nleader,\n\n111\n00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.600\neverybody like working for you.\n\n112\n00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:55.270\nThe last thing you want to have happen is people on that team say, well, I\n\n113\n00:04:55.270 --> 00:04:56.320\nremember when\n\n114\n00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:59.920\nso and so did this and I remember when so and so did this.\n\n115\n00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.840\nNo, that's the worst thing that can ever happen to you.\n\n116\n00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:06.760\nYou don't want to have people remembering what other people did.\n\n117\n00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:10.490\nYou want to have people remembering what you're doing with them and you need to\n\n118\n00:05:10.490 --> 00:05:11.680\nreally create\n\n119\n00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.880\nnew memories.\n\n120\n00:05:12.880 --> 00:05:15.360\nAnd I think that's what someone should do.\n\n121\n00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.920\nAnytime you take over a team is start creating new memories with that team.\n\n122\n00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:24.140\nNow at the same time, you need to respect what's preceded you.\n\n123\n00:05:24.140 --> 00:05:28.680\nYou need to respect the founder and learn from the founder.\n\n124\n00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:33.110\nOne of the things I would say is that if you take over for a founder or you\n\n125\n00:05:33.110 --> 00:05:34.040\ntake over for\n\n126\n00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:38.300\na director or you take over for another vice president, you know, you really\n\n127\n00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:39.040\nunderstand\n\n128\n00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:44.860\nwhat made the prior person successful, what made other people want to work with\n\n129\n00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:45.440\nthem,\n\n130\n00:05:45.440 --> 00:05:50.800\nhow did they get their results, really go after that kind of knowledge.\n\n131\n00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:54.930\nAnd you know, a lot of times what I see is people take over jobs and they can't\n\n132\n00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:55.280\nwait\n\n133\n00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:59.880\nto just eliminate the person that they took over for.\n\n134\n00:05:59.880 --> 00:06:04.650\nThey can't wait to wipe out the thought of anybody thinking about that prior\n\n135\n00:06:04.650 --> 00:06:05.200\nperson\n\n136\n00:06:05.200 --> 00:06:11.200\nor the founder because their ego is so big that they want to be seen as the new\n\n137\n00:06:11.200 --> 00:06:12.080\nperson.\n\n138\n00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:15.870\nAnd so they don't really tap into the knowledge and the know-how that the\n\n139\n00:06:15.870 --> 00:06:16.960\npeople that they're\n\n140\n00:06:16.960 --> 00:06:20.640\ntaking over for obviously have.\n\n141\n00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:26.840\nAnd clearly, Yomini really understood the balance between respecting the past\n\n142\n00:06:26.840 --> 00:06:28.000\nbut knowing that\n\n143\n00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:33.120\nher job is to create a new future that everybody can get excited about.\n\n144\n00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.930\nAnother thing Yomini talks about a lot in the episode is the process she went\n\n145\n00:06:36.930 --> 00:06:37.440\nthrough\n\n146\n00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:42.780\nto find her voice and to figure out the true authentic version of who she was\n\n147\n00:06:42.780 --> 00:06:43.600\nand how she\n\n148\n00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:44.600\nwanted to lead.\n\n149\n00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:51.160\nSo I think another great exercise for anybody taking over a team of any size is\n\n150\n00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:51.640\nto find\n\n151\n00:06:51.640 --> 00:06:56.050\nthat balance like Yomini did between honoring the past and making new memories\n\n152\n00:06:56.050 --> 00:06:56.360\nand then\n\n153\n00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:00.780\nalso figuring out who you are, finding your voice and then really leaning into\n\n154\n00:07:00.780 --> 00:07:01.280\nthat so\n\n155\n00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:04.320\nyou can do all of those things authentically.\n\n156\n00:07:04.320 --> 00:07:08.170\nYou know, that kind of takes me back to when I first became president of Pepsi\n\n157\n00:07:08.170 --> 00:07:08.880\nCo Division\n\n158\n00:07:08.880 --> 00:07:11.120\nand it was KFC.\n\n159\n00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:15.140\nAnd I always wanted to be a president of a division and now I had a chance to\n\n160\n00:07:15.140 --> 00:07:15.700\ndo that\n\n161\n00:07:15.700 --> 00:07:20.680\njob so I'm on this flight and I asked myself this really important question\n\n162\n00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:21.640\nwhich is what\n\n163\n00:07:21.640 --> 00:07:24.200\nkind of president am I going to be.\n\n164\n00:07:24.200 --> 00:07:27.180\nAnd I thought about all the presidents of the PepsiCo divisions and they were\n\n165\n00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:28.200\nvery formal,\n\n166\n00:07:28.200 --> 00:07:32.730\nthey were MBAs, they were very serious, they kind of had a little bit of\n\n167\n00:07:32.730 --> 00:07:34.400\nemotional detachment\n\n168\n00:07:34.400 --> 00:07:40.000\nfrom the people that they led so that they could make the so-called tough calls\n\n169\n00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:40.080\n.\n\n170\n00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:44.620\nAnd I thought about myself and I said, \"You know, I'm not really that kind of\n\n171\n00:07:44.620 --> 00:07:45.240\nperson.\n\n172\n00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.360\nI like getting emotionally engaged with people.\n\n173\n00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.120\nI like to have fun.\n\n174\n00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.630\nI've got some blue suits but I usually take the coat off and when I'm walking\n\n175\n00:07:54.630 --> 00:07:55.040\naround\n\n176\n00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.410\nthe office with my red tie that's already got a couple spots on it, my shirt\n\n177\n00:07:59.410 --> 00:07:59.920\ntail is\n\n178\n00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.240\nhanging out and that's just who I am.\"\n\n179\n00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:06.600\nSo I kind of said to myself, \"What kind of president are you going to be?\"\n\n180\n00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:11.070\nAnd I said, \"Well, I'm going to be the same kind of president that I have been\n\n181\n00:08:11.070 --> 00:08:11.560\nleader\n\n182\n00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.120\nthat's gotten me to this place and I'm going to be true to who I am.\"\n\n183\n00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:23.180\nAnd I think being true to who I am, being open, being vulnerable, being\n\n184\n00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:24.800\ntransparent,\n\n185\n00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:30.180\nyou know, being honest with people, not worried about getting close to people\n\n186\n00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:31.160\nbecause I may\n\n187\n00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.040\nhave to fire them someday.\n\n188\n00:08:34.040 --> 00:08:39.240\nContinuing to lead like I've always led was the key to my success.\n\n189\n00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:44.160\nAnd I think once you do that, people really will invest in you as well.\n\n190\n00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:47.200\nAnd that didn't mean that I didn't make the tough decisions I did.\n\n191\n00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:52.570\nI probably fired more people than most people because I did have high standards\n\n192\n00:08:52.570 --> 00:08:53.600\nbut I always\n\n193\n00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:58.240\ndid it with as much respect as I could give to other people.\n\n194\n00:08:58.240 --> 00:08:59.840\nAnd you know what?\n\n195\n00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:04.140\nWhen those tough situations happen, you know, I could really sit down and have\n\n196\n00:09:04.140 --> 00:09:04.840\na learning\n\n197\n00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:06.520\nconversation.\n\n198\n00:09:06.520 --> 00:09:09.670\nNot only learning that would go to the person who might be getting the tough\n\n199\n00:09:09.670 --> 00:09:10.200\nfeedback but\n\n200\n00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:15.040\nalso learning that would come back to me that would help me be a good leader.\n\n201\n00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:16.040\nQuestion number three.\n\n202\n00:09:16.040 --> 00:09:19.320\nI love when Yamani talks about the culture at HubSpot.\n\n203\n00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:23.280\nThey treat their culture as one of their products and they continue to evolve\n\n204\n00:09:23.280 --> 00:09:23.960\nthat culture\n\n205\n00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:26.800\nin the same way that they evolve their products.\n\n206\n00:09:26.800 --> 00:09:32.100\nIn fact, they have a culture code that's been updated over 100 times since it\n\n207\n00:09:32.100 --> 00:09:32.840\nbegan.\n\n208\n00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:37.100\nDavid, what's something leaders can learn from treating their culture as a\n\n209\n00:09:37.100 --> 00:09:37.840\nproduct?\n\n210\n00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:43.120\nI think what that basically says is that your culture is very, very important.\n\n211\n00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.570\nYou know, the products that you create and produce, you know, that's how you\n\n212\n00:09:48.570 --> 00:09:49.400\nmake money\n\n213\n00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:51.160\ntypically.\n\n214\n00:09:51.160 --> 00:09:55.550\nAnd what she's saying there is that they know that the way they're going to\n\n215\n00:09:55.550 --> 00:09:56.320\nproduce the\n\n216\n00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:03.610\nbest products, drive the most efficiency, get the very best results is through\n\n217\n00:10:03.610 --> 00:10:04.520\nthe culture\n\n218\n00:10:04.520 --> 00:10:06.080\nthat they create.\n\n219\n00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:11.480\nAnd so if that's true, then why not treat a product which is your lifeblood?\n\n220\n00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:14.560\nWhy not treat the culture like your product?\n\n221\n00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:16.560\nIt just makes so much sense.\n\n222\n00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:21.360\nBut you know, I find that the really good leaders are very good at really\n\n223\n00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:22.520\ncreating word\n\n224\n00:10:22.520 --> 00:10:23.520\npictures.\n\n225\n00:10:23.520 --> 00:10:26.080\nYou know, you're culture as a product.\n\n226\n00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:30.290\nThat's a great word picture for me, you know, and it says that you're going to\n\n227\n00:10:30.290 --> 00:10:31.120\ncontinually\n\n228\n00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:36.710\nimprove it and you're going to do everything invested in it and do everything\n\n229\n00:10:36.710 --> 00:10:37.680\nyou can to\n\n230\n00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:40.960\nmake sure you beat your competition on that front.\n\n231\n00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:45.090\nAnd if you do that with your culture, boy, the results that you're going to get\n\n232\n00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:45.560\nare going\n\n233\n00:10:45.560 --> 00:10:46.640\nto be phenomenal.\n\n234\n00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:48.160\nSo I just love that.\n\n235\n00:10:48.160 --> 00:10:49.160\nI love it too.\n\n236\n00:10:49.160 --> 00:10:53.200\nI think of products as things that create value for customers.\n\n237\n00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:57.870\nAnd with culture being a product, it's something that creates value for\n\n238\n00:10:57.870 --> 00:10:59.120\nemployees, which then\n\n239\n00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.600\nin turn creates value for customers.\n\n240\n00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:03.160\nSo I totally agree with you, David.\n\n241\n00:11:03.160 --> 00:11:07.870\nI think it's such a beautiful way to look at the culture that you can create as\n\n242\n00:11:07.870 --> 00:11:08.560\na company\n\n243\n00:11:08.560 --> 00:11:13.120\nbecause it has the ability to massively impact the quality of life, not only\n\n244\n00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:14.080\nfor the people\n\n245\n00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.400\nthat work for you, but for your customers as well.\n\n246\n00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:17.400\nYeah.\n\n247\n00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:22.800\nAnd you know, I've studied a lot of great companies and a lot of great leaders.\n\n248\n00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:27.450\nAll of them will really cite the importance of culture being the most important\n\n249\n00:11:27.450 --> 00:11:27.880\nthing\n\n250\n00:11:27.880 --> 00:11:33.020\nthat they can do to really ensure the success of their organization or their\n\n251\n00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:33.680\nteam.\n\n252\n00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:39.360\nAnd I think knowing that is such a critical insight.\n\n253\n00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:44.750\nAnd then thinking of your culture as a product and continuously improving it is\n\n254\n00:11:44.750 --> 00:11:45.440\na great way\n\n255\n00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.240\nto think about it.\n\n256\n00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:55.360\nWell, that wraps our episode of three more questions for today.\n\n257\n00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.720\nThanks again for tuning in to How Leaders Lead.\n\n258\n00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:00.730\nWe're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better\n\n259\n00:12:00.730 --> 00:12:01.280\nleaders.\n\n260\n00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:04.430\nAnd if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you\n\n261\n00:12:04.430 --> 00:12:04.720\nbuild\n\n262\n00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.240\nthe confidence you need to lead well.\n\n263\n00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.290\nAnd I want you to tune in Thursday as we dive into my conversation with Jim\n\n264\n00:12:11.290 --> 00:12:12.040\nLevine.\n\n265\n00:12:12.040 --> 00:12:16.420\nHe's a world-renowned literary agent that's had something to do with many, many\n\n266\n00:12:16.420 --> 00:12:16.800\nof the\n\n267\n00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:20.280\nbooks that you've read, including a couple of mine.\n\n268\n00:12:20.280 --> 00:12:30.280\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","

Koula Callahan 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead up Kula Callahan here to bring you another edition of three more questions with David Novak. David, we've got a fun one today. I'm excited to be back on the show with you. Well,

David Novak 0:14

I'm excited to cooler because we're gonna dive into my conversation with Yamini Roghan, the CEO of HubSpot, and she is an absolute Dynamo. And I just love this podcast. I

Koula Callahan 0:25

know you've loved this podcast and my first question today, we'll get a little bit more into why you love this podcast with your money. So let's just dive right in.

Question number one, David, ever since you recorded this podcast, you have not stopped talking about Yamini Rangan. I mean, you light up like a Christmas tree every time someone says her name. What impressed you most about her?

David Novak 0:53

Well, I think what really impressed me the most is that she was the chief customer officer, and she continues to be a chief customer officer as the CEO. You know, this woman knew as much about me, as I knew about her when we got on the podcast. Now I do a lot of research, I really take a lot of pride in learning about the people that I'm going to interview. And she had done her research, too, she had looked at some of my books, she had been on Wikipedia, she'd gone online, she'd done all these things. And she knew so much about me. And I have to tell you, her preparation was so amazing that it almost startled me. And it really put pressure on me because now, I not only wanted to do a great podcast, I wanted to do a super great podcast, I wanted to make sure that I didn't let her down that I actually met her high expectations. And it really kind of showed me why she's such a great salesperson. Because you know, she gets prepared for her customers. She understands how our customers think she learns about our customers. And then when she gets in that meeting with the customer, she absolutely blows them away with her knowledge of the business and the knowledge of that person. And that's her secret. And let me tell you something that is a tremendous secret for everybody to think about in sales or whatever function you might be in, get prepared. If you're going to have a meeting with somebody, make sure you know everything you can about what you're going to talk about who you're going to be talking to, and really get ready to make a real positive difference in that person, slide and that businesses results in, you're going to have a lot of success, she is proof positive that you can see I got pretty excited just talking about that preparation that she showed me also showed me a tremendous amount of respect. I mean, she respected me, she took the time to learn about me. That was recognition. You know, and I think everybody likes recognition like that. I

Koula Callahan 2:58

love seeing you get so excited talking about your money, but also talking about how coming prepared to meetings or conversations or one on ones with the people that you manage, coming to those meetings prepared, show such an immense amount of respect that you have for that person, because really what everybody is vying for in this world, whether it's from your consumers or your employees is your time. And if someone is willing to give up an hour of their time to get to know you and to record a podcast episode, showing them that you respect their time enough to do all this research about them really goes a long way. Absolutely.

David Novak 3:31

And what I really think it taught me was when someone does that kind of preparation for you, then you want to do the very best you can to make them look as good as they possibly can. That's why I really enjoy Germany so much I look forward to meeting or someday in person.

Koula Callahan 3:49

Question number two Yamini came into the CEO role and a bit of an unorthodox manner. She took over a CEO from the founder of HubSpot, and in the episode you asked her about how she became her own CEO, and the footsteps of the founder she took over from and she said what helped her most was focusing on the future of HubSpot, and then working backwards from that vision to create the reality of the company she wanted to lead. David, what other advice can you give CEOs who are taking over from founders of companies, particularly in a scenario when the company is healthy and thriving?

David Novak 4:25

Well, I think when you take over for a founder, you're obviously taken over for somebody who's had enormous success and gotten the company to where it is today. And I think the most important thing you can do is recognize that your job now is this new CEO, this new leader. And I think this goes for when you take over a new team. And let's say you take over a team and that team had had a really highly popular leader that everybody like working for. The last thing you want to have happen is people on that team To say, Well, I remember when so and so did this. And I remember when so and so did this. No, that's the worst thing that can ever happen to you. You don't want to have people remembering what other people did. You want to have people remembering what you're doing with them. And you need to really create new memories. And I think that's what someone should do. Anytime you take over a team is start creating new memories with that team. Now at the same time, you need to respect what's preceded you, you need to respect the founder, and you know, learn from the founder, one of the things I would say is that if you take over for a founder, or you take over for a director, or you take over for another Vice President, you know, you don't really understand what made the prior person successful. What made other people want to work with them, how did they get the results really go after that kind of knowledge. And, you know, a lot of times what I see is people take over jobs, and they can't wait to just eliminate the person that they took over for, they can't wait to wipe out the thought of anybody thinking about that that prior person or the founder, because their egos so big that they want to be seen as the new person. And so they don't really tap into the knowledge and the know how that the people that they're taking over for obviously have. And clearly Yamini really understood the balance between respecting the past, but knowing that her job is to create a new future that everybody can get excited about.

Koula Callahan 6:38

Another thing Yeah, many talks about a lot in the episode is the process she went through to find her voice, and to figure out the true authentic version of who she was and how she wanted to lead. So I think another great exercise for anybody taking over a team of any size is to find that balance, like yami did between honoring the past and making new memories, and then also figuring out who you are finding your voice and then really leaning into that. So you can do all of those things authentically.

David Novak 7:09

You know, that kind of takes me back to when I first became president of PepsiCo division, and it was KFC and, and, you know, I always wanted to be a president of a division. And now I had a chance to do that job. So I'm on this flight. And I asked myself this really important question, which is, what kind of President am I going to be? And I thought about all the presidents of the PepsiCo divisions, and they were very formal, they were MBAs, they were very serious, you know, they kind of had a little bit of emotional detachment from the people that they they lead so that they can make the so called tough calls. And I thought about myself, and I said, you know, I'm not really that kind of person. You know, I like getting emotionally engaged with people, you know, I like to have fun, you know, I've got some blue suits, but I usually take the coat off. And when I'm walking around the office, you know, with my red tie, that's already got a couple spots on it, my shirt tails hanging out, and, you know, that's just who I am. So I kind of just said to myself, what kind of President you're going to be, as well, I'm going to be the same kind of President, that I have been leader that's gotten me to this place, and I'm gonna be true to who I am. And I think, you know, being true to who I am, being open, being vulnerable, being transparent, you know, being honest with people not worry about getting close to people, because I may have to fire him someday, you know, continuing to lead like a voice lead, was the key to my success. And I think once you do that people really will invest in you, as well. And that didn't mean that I didn't make the tough decisions I did, I probably fired more people than most people, because I did have high standards, but I always did it with as much respect as I could give to other people. And you know what, when those tough situations happen, you know, I could really sit down and have a learning conversation, not only learning that would go to the person who might be getting the tough feedback, but also learning that would come back to me that would help me be a good leader.

Koula Callahan 9:20

Question number three, I love when Yamini talks about the culture at HubSpot, they treat their culture as one of their products, and they continue to evolve that culture in the same way that they evolve their products. In fact, they have a culture code that's been updated over 100 times since it began. David, what's something leaders can learn from treating their culture as a product? Well, I think

David Novak 9:43

what that basically says is that your culture is very, very important. You know, the products that you create, and produce, you know, that's how you make money typically. And what she's saying there is that They know that the way how they're going to produce the best products drive the most efficiency, get the very best results is through the culture that they create. And so if that's true, then why not treat a product, which is your lifeblood, why not treat the culture like your product, it just makes so much sense. But you know, I find that the really good leaders are very good at really creating word pictures, you know, your culture as a product, that's a great word picture for me, you know, and it says that you're going to continually improve it, and you're going to do everything invested in and and do everything you can to make sure you beat your competition on that front. And if you do that, with your culture, boy, the results that you're gonna get are going to be phenomenal. So I just love that.

Koula Callahan 10:53

I love it, too. I think of products as things that create value for customers. And with culture being a product, it's something that creates value for employees, which then in turn creates value for customers. So I totally agree with you, David, I think it's such a beautiful way to look at the culture that you can create as a company because it has the ability to massively impact the quality of life, not only for the people that work for you, but for your customers as well.

David Novak 11:22

Yeah, and you know, I've studied a lot of great companies and a lot of great leaders. All of them will really cite the importance of culture being the most important thing that they can do to really ensure the success of their organization or their team. And, you know, I think knowing that is such a critical insight. And then, you know, thinking of your culture as a product and continuously improving, it is a great way to think about.

Koula Callahan 11:57

Well, that wraps our episode of three more questions for today. Thanks again for tuning in to how leaders lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well, and

David Novak 12:13

I want you to tune in Thursday as we dive into my conversation with Jim Levine. He is a world renowned literary agent that's had something to do with many, many of the books that you've read, including a couple of mine

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