[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2280/when-you-give-tough-feedback-start-with-respect","id",2280,"title","When you give tough feedback, start with respect","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.760\nWell, I think that feedback is really important and everybody really needs it.\n\n2\n00:00:05.760 --> 00:00:07.320\nIt's the key to improvement.\n\n3\n00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:12.970\nBut I think what you have to do is respect the individual when you give the\n\n4\n00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:14.080\nfeedback.\n\n5\n00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:16.320\nNow, what do I mean by that?\n\n6\n00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:21.840\nIf someone has worked hard on something or has put effort into something, you\n\n7\n00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:22.240\nhave to\n\n8\n00:00:22.240 --> 00:00:24.440\nacknowledge that.\n\n9\n00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:26.680\nAnd then I follow a very simple process.\n\n10\n00:00:26.680 --> 00:00:30.960\nAnd it's basically as I start out with, here's what I appreciate about what I\n\n11\n00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:32.280\njust saw or\n\n12\n00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:35.000\nwhat I just heard or what you just presented.\n\n13\n00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:41.300\nAnd once you start out with that, people are then very open to hearing feedback\n\n14\n00:00:41.300 --> 00:00:41.680\n.\n\n15\n00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:45.800\nBut if you just go straight to the negative, they go, gosh, that doesn't even\n\n16\n00:00:45.800 --> 00:00:46.360\nrealize\n\n17\n00:00:46.360 --> 00:00:48.480\nhow much work I put into this.\n\n18\n00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:51.560\nHe didn't hear a thing I said, you know, or whatever.\n\n19\n00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:53.840\nBut I always start out with, here's what I appreciate.\n\n20\n00:00:53.840 --> 00:01:00.400\nAnd then I say, and not but here's how I think you can be even more effective.\n\n21\n00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:04.630\nThat method of feedback really works because it shows that you have appreciated\n\n22\n00:01:04.630 --> 00:01:05.480\nwhat somebody\n\n23\n00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:06.480\nhas done.\n\n24\n00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.430\nAnd then once you've shown them that appreciation, they're going to hear the\n\n25\n00:01:11.430 --> 00:01:12.720\nconstructive feedback\n\n26\n00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:14.800\nthat you have to make something better.\n\n27\n00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:17.080\nThat works every single time.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2301099,"end_time",2376429,"keywords","Feedback, criticism, constructive criticism, improvement, respect, appreciation,","slug","when-you-give-tough-feedback-start-with-respect","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","VjV5McWTKqnKJ8hN9trmnE7ZnMKuSytE5axJz7NI3us","mux_asset_id","2KF89bwTCAJtrJk2383MtOr02oPF40266FQEsP01AMY92k","leader_id",154,"episode_id",331,"updated_at","2025-02-26T20:16:34.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2280/when-you-give-tough-feedback-start-with-respect","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":111,"_112":113,"_69":114,"_39":115,"_116":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_117":118,"_89":119,"_44":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_46":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_93":129,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Be an active learner","be-an-active-learner","Learn how to be an active learner—someone who is constantly seeking knowledge, and then putting those insights into practice. Hear stories that will help you build a culture of recognition. Plus, hear a David Novak original song that may have you wondering who cut all those onions.","summary","

Today’s guest isn’t a guest at all. It’s David Novak himself! We’re turning the tables and putting David in the hot seat, so you can hear more about how he leads.

This conversation is full of stories and insights into how he’s leveraged the superpower of being an active learner in order to drive success, both as the CEO of Yum! Brands but also now with David Novak Leadership.

If you want to learn how to find new ideas and turn them into action, listen now!

You’ll also learn:

The most important thing to know if you want to build a culture of recognition
A simple exercise you can do each year to focus on your own growth
How to galvanize an unmotivated team
The two big lessons David learned from his Crystal Pepsi debacle
All about David’s new passion for country music songwriting (no, really!)

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.480\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n2\n00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:10.400\nMy name is Tim Schur and I'm the CEO of David Novak Leadership.\n\n3\n00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:14.320\nAnd there's a good reason you're hearing my voice today instead of David's.\n\n4\n00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.840\nAnd that's because our guest today isn't a guest at all.\n\n5\n00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:19.840\nIt's David himself.\n\n6\n00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:23.890\nHe says every week that this podcast is your chance to listen to interviews\n\n7\n00:00:23.890 --> 00:00:24.840\nwith the very\n\n8\n00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:26.920\nbest leaders in the world.\n\n9\n00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:31.230\nAnd while he's too humble to say that about himself, you and I both know that\n\n10\n00:00:31.230 --> 00:00:31.800\nDavid is\n\n11\n00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.200\nabsolutely in that category.\n\n12\n00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:39.850\nI finally convinced him to sit down and let me interview him because believe me\n\n13\n00:00:39.850 --> 00:00:40.480\n, he's\n\n14\n00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:43.920\ngot so many leadership lessons to share.\n\n15\n00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.650\nIf you listen to this podcast, you probably already know that David was the co-\n\n16\n00:00:47.650 --> 00:00:48.120\nfounder\n\n17\n00:00:48.120 --> 00:00:50.440\nand CEO of Yumbrands.\n\n18\n00:00:50.440 --> 00:00:55.160\nThat's the parent company of KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut.\n\n19\n00:00:55.160 --> 00:01:01.320\nAfter his leadership, the market cap grew from $4 billion to $32 billion.\n\n20\n00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:05.250\nAnd a big part of that success came from David's focus on the power of\n\n21\n00:01:05.250 --> 00:01:06.360\nrecognition and the\n\n22\n00:01:06.360 --> 00:01:10.240\nintentional way he built a people first culture.\n\n23\n00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:11.760\nBut there's more to that.\n\n24\n00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.880\nAs you'll hear today, he's an insatiable learner.\n\n25\n00:01:14.880 --> 00:01:19.560\nAnd not only that, he applies what he learns in order to drive results.\n\n26\n00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:30.520\nThis idea of being an active learner is his superpower.\n\n27\n00:01:30.520 --> 00:01:35.840\nThis Tuesday, June 4th, is going to help you develop that learning superpower\n\n28\n00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:37.080\nfor yourself.\n\n29\n00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:40.800\nAnd this conversation will too because David goes into detail about how he\n\n30\n00:01:40.800 --> 00:01:41.800\nlearns and applies\n\n31\n00:01:41.800 --> 00:01:43.200\nthose lessons.\n\n32\n00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:48.290\nAnd if all that's not enough, I've also got a special surprise for you at the\n\n33\n00:01:48.290 --> 00:01:48.640\nend of\n\n34\n00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:49.640\nthe episode.\n\n35\n00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.670\nI will not spoil it completely, but let's just say it involves David's latest\n\n36\n00:01:53.670 --> 00:01:54.360\nand greatest\n\n37\n00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:57.200\nhobby of country music songwriting.\n\n38\n00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.320\nAnd you do not want to miss it.\n\n39\n00:01:59.320 --> 00:02:03.720\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and you know what?\n\n40\n00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:13.040\nYours to David Novak.\n\n41\n00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:18.760\nSo David, you are famous for creating a recognition culture while at Yum.\n\n42\n00:02:18.760 --> 00:02:22.970\nWas there a particular moment where you knew that this was going to be the\n\n43\n00:02:22.970 --> 00:02:23.920\napproach that\n\n44\n00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:25.920\nyou'd adopt as a leader?\n\n45\n00:02:25.920 --> 00:02:30.080\nWell, Tim, and I'll stem from my chief operating role when I was at Pepsi Cola\n\n46\n00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:30.800\nCompany.\n\n47\n00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.830\nOne of the things I always did was I would go out and visit the bottling plants\n\n48\n00:02:34.830 --> 00:02:35.280\nin the\n\n49\n00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:39.950\nmorning, get there around six o'clock, buy everybody coffee and donuts and just\n\n50\n00:02:39.950 --> 00:02:40.480\nsit around\n\n51\n00:02:40.480 --> 00:02:43.360\nthe table and ask people what was working, what wasn't working.\n\n52\n00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:48.280\nAnd I'm in St. Louis, Missouri, and I'm with a group of route salesman.\n\n53\n00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:52.170\nNow the route salesman, most important people in Pepsi, they go into this\n\n54\n00:02:52.170 --> 00:02:53.080\nstores and they\n\n55\n00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.350\nget all the display space and they work with the customers and put up the POP\n\n56\n00:02:57.350 --> 00:02:58.000\nand all this.\n\n57\n00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:59.640\nIt's just a really key job.\n\n58\n00:02:59.640 --> 00:03:04.480\nSo I'm trying to understand what's going on in the world of merchandising.\n\n59\n00:03:04.480 --> 00:03:09.540\nSo I asked this group of about 10 people were sitting around around table and I\n\n60\n00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:10.120\nsaid, you\n\n61\n00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.120\nknow, tell me about merchandising.\n\n62\n00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:14.680\nThey all started raving about this guy named Bob.\n\n63\n00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:18.160\nBob is sitting directly across from me.\n\n64\n00:03:18.160 --> 00:03:22.570\nAnd one guy says, oh, Bob taught me more in four hours and I learned my first\n\n65\n00:03:22.570 --> 00:03:23.320\nthree years\n\n66\n00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:24.320\nhere.\n\n67\n00:03:24.320 --> 00:03:26.120\nAnother guy says, oh, you should see Bob with customers.\n\n68\n00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:27.120\nHe's amazing.\n\n69\n00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.040\nThis guy is so good with customers.\n\n70\n00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:31.040\nMan, oh, he goes in there.\n\n71\n00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:32.800\nHe gets the facings just perfect.\n\n72\n00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.640\nI mean, his stores look so good.\n\n73\n00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:35.800\nHe's just the best at it.\n\n74\n00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:41.950\nAnd I look across the table and I see Bob and he's crying and I go, Bob, why\n\n75\n00:03:41.950 --> 00:03:42.960\nare you crying?\n\n76\n00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.320\nThese people are heaping all this praise on you.\n\n77\n00:03:45.320 --> 00:03:48.840\nAnd he said, well, I've been in this company for 47 years.\n\n78\n00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:55.320\nI'm retiring in two weeks and I didn't know people felt this way about me.\n\n79\n00:03:55.320 --> 00:03:59.240\nAnd when I heard that it was like a punch in the gut, I said, oh my gosh, this\n\n80\n00:03:59.240 --> 00:03:59.760\nguy is\n\n81\n00:03:59.760 --> 00:04:01.960\nso good at what he does.\n\n82\n00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:03.800\nAnd he's never felt appreciated.\n\n83\n00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:10.330\nAnd I said to myself, I'm going to make recognition the single most important\n\n84\n00:04:10.330 --> 00:04:11.360\nbehavior that I\n\n85\n00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:15.280\ntried to drive in any company that I ever work in again.\n\n86\n00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.960\nI don't want to have people like Bob feel the way Bob was feeling.\n\n87\n00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:24.000\nI'm going to try to lift people up and let people know how much I value them\n\n88\n00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:24.560\nand how\n\n89\n00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:26.120\nmuch the organization value them.\n\n90\n00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.320\nI'm going to make recognition the number one behavior.\n\n91\n00:04:29.320 --> 00:04:36.100\nAnd that was basically the story that I think catapulted my career because from\n\n92\n00:04:36.100 --> 00:04:36.760\nthat point\n\n93\n00:04:36.760 --> 00:04:41.120\non, I really focused on culture, which I think is the most important thing you\n\n94\n00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:41.760\ncan do in\n\n95\n00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:43.200\nany company.\n\n96\n00:04:43.200 --> 00:04:48.040\nAnd the number one behavior that I drove was recognizing people and having a\n\n97\n00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:48.800\nlot of fun\n\n98\n00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:49.800\ndoing it.\n\n99\n00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.600\nI've heard you talk about this idea that leaders cast a shadow.\n\n100\n00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:58.740\nWhat are you an example of some of the things that you would do to recognize\n\n101\n00:04:58.740 --> 00:04:59.600\npeople to really\n\n102\n00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:03.960\nlet people know that this is what you wanted them to do as well?\n\n103\n00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:07.830\nI really do believe that casting a shadow is what every leader does, whether\n\n104\n00:05:07.830 --> 00:05:08.400\nthey know\n\n105\n00:05:08.400 --> 00:05:12.080\nit or not, because people basically do what the leader does.\n\n106\n00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:17.320\nSo I wanted the role model effect that I felt recognition was so important.\n\n107\n00:05:17.320 --> 00:05:23.000\nSo I was looking for a very powerful recognition tool.\n\n108\n00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:25.800\nAnd I wanted to have a really fun way to do recognition.\n\n109\n00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:30.240\nAnd I found out when I was president of KFC, that the head of IT had this\n\n110\n00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:31.720\nmonthly meeting.\n\n111\n00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.880\nAnd every month he'd give away this rubber floppy chicken.\n\n112\n00:05:34.880 --> 00:05:36.760\nAnd I just love that.\n\n113\n00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:40.600\nAnd I went to him and I said, you know, I really love this recognition award.\n\n114\n00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:43.040\nI'm really looking for something as the president of KFC.\n\n115\n00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.280\nI'm wondering if you would let me take your award.\n\n116\n00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:48.680\nAnd of course he gave me the right answer.\n\n117\n00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.680\nHe said, sure, David, you can have my award.\n\n118\n00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:53.440\nBut I really appreciated that.\n\n119\n00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:58.480\nAnd so I started using this floppy chicken to recognize people when I saw great\n\n120\n00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:59.520\nbehaviors.\n\n121\n00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:06.480\nSo I'd walk into a KFC, for example, and I would see this great original recipe\n\n122\n00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:07.360\ncook.\n\n123\n00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.200\nAnd the food was fantastic.\n\n124\n00:06:09.200 --> 00:06:12.920\nAnd so I'd go back to my car, bring in a rubber chicken and say, boy, this\n\n125\n00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:13.960\noriginal recipe\n\n126\n00:06:13.960 --> 00:06:15.680\nis the best chicken I've ever tasted.\n\n127\n00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:17.720\nYou know, quality is what we do.\n\n128\n00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:18.800\nI appreciate you so much.\n\n129\n00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.840\nAnd I write all this down on this floppy chicken and I'd number it.\n\n130\n00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:27.640\nAnd then I'd say, okay, you know, I'm going to give you this floppy chicken.\n\n131\n00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:29.360\nBut I want to take a picture with you.\n\n132\n00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.680\nAnd I'm going to send you a copy of the picture back to you.\n\n133\n00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.840\nBut the most important thing is you can throw it in a crash if you want.\n\n134\n00:06:35.840 --> 00:06:36.840\nI don't care.\n\n135\n00:06:36.840 --> 00:06:41.820\nBut I'm going to put your picture in my office because you're what makes our\n\n136\n00:06:41.820 --> 00:06:42.880\nbusiness tick.\n\n137\n00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:46.160\nI would take the picture and we'd have fun with that.\n\n138\n00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.160\nAnd then I'd give him $100 because you couldn't eat a rubber chicken.\n\n139\n00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.400\nAnd I'm telling you what, this took off.\n\n140\n00:06:53.400 --> 00:06:58.120\nYou couldn't believe because people saw how much people loved it when I\n\n141\n00:06:58.120 --> 00:06:59.160\nrecognized other\n\n142\n00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:00.160\npeople.\n\n143\n00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.270\nAnd they said, you know, if David Novak's doing this and getting success doing\n\n144\n00:07:04.270 --> 00:07:04.800\nit, I'm\n\n145\n00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:06.560\ngoing to do it too.\n\n146\n00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:07.560\nAnd it took off.\n\n147\n00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:11.010\nAnd one of the things I'm most proud of is all our leaders across young brands\n\n148\n00:07:11.010 --> 00:07:11.360\nhad their\n\n149\n00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:16.800\nown recognition award from giving away many basketballs to fasten your seatbelt\n\n150\n00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:17.320\nawards\n\n151\n00:07:17.320 --> 00:07:22.300\nto, you know, shovels if you were in construction and people had fun and you\n\n152\n00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:22.840\npersonalize it.\n\n153\n00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:26.680\nBut I think it's very important that you give a piece of yourself away when you\n\n154\n00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:27.280\nrecognize\n\n155\n00:07:27.280 --> 00:07:28.280\npeople.\n\n156\n00:07:28.280 --> 00:07:29.680\nYou do it from the heart.\n\n157\n00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:30.680\nIt's very genuine.\n\n158\n00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.200\nIt's well earned.\n\n159\n00:07:32.200 --> 00:07:33.360\nYou personalize it.\n\n160\n00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:35.440\nThat's why I would write on them.\n\n161\n00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:36.960\nAnd you have fun doing it.\n\n162\n00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:41.960\nAnd I did take all those pictures of the people I recognized.\n\n163\n00:07:41.960 --> 00:07:46.000\nI put them, you know, in my office, just like I said, I would.\n\n164\n00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.910\nAnd people loved to come see the CEO's office and they'd come into my office\n\n165\n00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:50.680\nand they knew\n\n166\n00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:55.070\nand they looked around the office that recognition and people is what it's all\n\n167\n00:07:55.070 --> 00:07:56.240\nabout in our company.\n\n168\n00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.480\nAnd I ran out of space, Tim.\n\n169\n00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.900\nLiterally, there are pictures from Florida ceiling and people said, what are\n\n170\n00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:02.400\nyou going\n\n171\n00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:04.120\nto do when you run out of space in your office?\n\n172\n00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.400\nI said, I'm going to put them on the ceiling.\n\n173\n00:08:06.400 --> 00:08:10.560\nSo actually, my ceiling is covered with pictures as well.\n\n174\n00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.560\nAnd then the recognition went out into the hallways.\n\n175\n00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.280\nBut it sends a big signal that this is what you really value.\n\n176\n00:08:18.280 --> 00:08:21.920\nSo I get how passionate you were about all of this.\n\n177\n00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:28.600\nBut at the time, you have 1.5 million employees all over the world and you can\n\n178\n00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:30.040\n't do this alone.\n\n179\n00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:36.680\nSo what are some of the practical ways that you found you were able to really\n\n180\n00:08:36.680 --> 00:08:37.520\ncascade\n\n181\n00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:39.000\nthis in the organization?\n\n182\n00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:42.680\nHow did you take people with you on that front?\n\n183\n00:08:42.680 --> 00:08:46.530\nWell, I think you recognize on purpose, I always tell everybody, you know, ask\n\n184\n00:08:46.530 --> 00:08:47.200\nyourself,\n\n185\n00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.590\nwhat are the behaviors that you know are going to drive results in your company\n\n186\n00:08:51.590 --> 00:08:51.680\n?\n\n187\n00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:54.840\nAnd then make those your cultural behaviors.\n\n188\n00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:57.080\nI don't really like the words value.\n\n189\n00:08:57.080 --> 00:09:00.280\nI mean, value is a nice word, but you know, it sounds really amorphous.\n\n190\n00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:03.520\nI like what you actually do.\n\n191\n00:09:03.520 --> 00:09:08.640\nAnd so we had what we called our how we work together principles.\n\n192\n00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:12.800\nAnd these were the behaviors that we wanted to have seen around the world.\n\n193\n00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:17.360\nAnd so one of those behaviors was recognition.\n\n194\n00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:21.920\nAnd we said, you know, we recognize each other and have fun doing it.\n\n195\n00:09:21.920 --> 00:09:24.400\nNow you mentioned casting a shadow earlier.\n\n196\n00:09:24.400 --> 00:09:25.720\nI cast that shadow.\n\n197\n00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:30.480\nI showed everybody the power of recognition, did a lot of it myself.\n\n198\n00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:34.950\nAnd then I asked my team to come up with their own recognition awards and they\n\n199\n00:09:34.950 --> 00:09:35.840\ndid it.\n\n200\n00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:37.920\nAnd everybody saw the power of recognition.\n\n201\n00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:42.800\nAnd then they asked their teams to come up with their own recognition awards.\n\n202\n00:09:42.800 --> 00:09:47.880\nAnd then everybody asked their teams and we cascaded it all around the world.\n\n203\n00:09:47.880 --> 00:09:54.150\nAnd I think the thing that I was most proud of as a CEO of young brands is that\n\n204\n00:09:54.150 --> 00:09:55.160\n, you know,\n\n205\n00:09:55.160 --> 00:10:00.560\nwe really created a recognition culture that was powerful all around the world.\n\n206\n00:10:00.560 --> 00:10:01.760\nPeople felt valued.\n\n207\n00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:05.580\nOf course, we weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but, you know,\n\n208\n00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:06.080\nwe worked\n\n209\n00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:10.160\nour tail off to really value people and show people how much we cared.\n\n210\n00:10:10.160 --> 00:10:15.260\nAnd it was basically a behavior that we cascaded and trained people on all\n\n211\n00:10:15.260 --> 00:10:16.760\naround the world.\n\n212\n00:10:16.760 --> 00:10:21.280\nAnd we did that, by the way, by having culture sessions where we trained people\n\n213\n00:10:21.280 --> 00:10:22.200\non the things\n\n214\n00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.400\nthat we thought would get us results, recognition being one, accountability,\n\n215\n00:10:26.400 --> 00:10:27.640\ncustomer focus,\n\n216\n00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:29.920\nteamwork, positive energy.\n\n217\n00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:34.620\nWe had training exercises around all these things and recognition being one of\n\n218\n00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:35.120\nthem that\n\n219\n00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.080\nwe executed all around the world.\n\n220\n00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:44.240\nYou can't make something happen in any company without cascading it to the key\n\n221\n00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.040\nlevels in\n\n222\n00:10:45.040 --> 00:10:49.240\nyour organization and move up as close to the customers you can possibly get.\n\n223\n00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:50.880\nAnd that's what we tried to do.\n\n224\n00:10:50.880 --> 00:10:54.080\nOur restaurant managers had recognition awards.\n\n225\n00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.680\nEverybody knew this is what we valued and it became a big part of our company.\n\n226\n00:10:57.680 --> 00:11:02.480\nSo some of what you've been talking about could be perceived as, you know, like\n\n227\n00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:03.240\nsoft,\n\n228\n00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:08.490\nfluffy stuff, but not really something that could make a real impact on the\n\n229\n00:11:08.490 --> 00:11:09.520\nbottom line.\n\n230\n00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:10.520\nBut what's your take?\n\n231\n00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:12.520\nI'm curious what you think about all that.\n\n232\n00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:15.440\nI think it's a soft stuff that drives hard results.\n\n233\n00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.750\nI think too many times people start out saying, I want to make money, but they\n\n234\n00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:19.400\ndon't really\n\n235\n00:11:19.400 --> 00:11:21.080\nthink about how you get there.\n\n236\n00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:24.970\nAnd it always starts with building people capabilities, showing people that you\n\n237\n00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:25.320\nvalue\n\n238\n00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.630\nthem, showing people that you appreciate them, show them that you're going to\n\n239\n00:11:28.630 --> 00:11:29.920\ntrain them,\n\n240\n00:11:29.920 --> 00:11:31.920\nshow them that what they do really matters.\n\n241\n00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:32.920\nThen guess what happens?\n\n242\n00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:36.240\nThey satisfy more customers than you make money.\n\n243\n00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.240\nAnd you know, that's the key thing.\n\n244\n00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.600\nYou know, if without that people capability, without the talent, you'll never\n\n245\n00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:43.560\nget the results\n\n246\n00:11:43.560 --> 00:11:45.120\nthat you really want.\n\n247\n00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:49.200\nAnd now that doesn't mean you don't make the tough decisions.\n\n248\n00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:53.240\nThat doesn't mean that you don't spend time innovating on products.\n\n249\n00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:56.620\nThat doesn't mean that you don't, you know, cut costs and all those kinds of\n\n250\n00:11:56.620 --> 00:11:57.200\nthings.\n\n251\n00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.240\nYou have to do those things to run the business.\n\n252\n00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:07.840\nBut you do that best when you do it with people who are talented and who have\n\n253\n00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:09.040\nthe mindset\n\n254\n00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:12.000\nto lead and get results the right way.\n\n255\n00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.880\nAnd I think that's what we try to do.\n\n256\n00:12:14.880 --> 00:12:20.840\n15 years here, is there a story from your early years that made a big impact on\n\n257\n00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:21.320\nyour\n\n258\n00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:22.320\nleadership?\n\n259\n00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.780\nWell, you know, I grew up, my dad was a government surveyor and we moved every\n\n260\n00:12:28.780 --> 00:12:29.140\nthree\n\n261\n00:12:29.140 --> 00:12:33.800\nmonths and we lived in 23 states by the time I was in seventh grade.\n\n262\n00:12:33.800 --> 00:12:39.850\nAnd my dad would basically hook up the government truck to our trailer and then\n\n263\n00:12:39.850 --> 00:12:40.960\nhe along with\n\n264\n00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.340\nour surveying party, which would be 10 to 15 other families, we would move\n\n265\n00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:46.000\nevery three\n\n266\n00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.160\nmonths after they did the surveying town.\n\n267\n00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:50.240\nI lived in all these little small towns.\n\n268\n00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:55.430\nI'm the only person you know, Tim, that has lived in Dodge City, Kansas, not\n\n269\n00:12:55.430 --> 00:12:56.000\nonce, but\n\n270\n00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:57.000\ntwice.\n\n271\n00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:04.240\nBut my mom would check me into schools every time we moved.\n\n272\n00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.240\nAnd sometimes I go to three schools a year.\n\n273\n00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.680\nAnd she would say, \"David, you better make friends because we're leaving.\"\n\n274\n00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:17.580\nAnd that was such a great advice because you know, I knew that I had to make\n\n275\n00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:18.480\nfriends and\n\n276\n00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.640\nI always learned that you're one friend away from happiness.\n\n277\n00:13:22.640 --> 00:13:27.470\nAnd I learned how to go into new environments and kind of scope out the\n\n278\n00:13:27.470 --> 00:13:29.080\nsituation, see what\n\n279\n00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:34.200\nkids I might want to hang with, see what kids I kind of wanted to avoid.\n\n280\n00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:39.880\nI think that really gave me very good people skills and very good insights on\n\n281\n00:13:39.880 --> 00:13:40.680\npeople that\n\n282\n00:13:40.680 --> 00:13:42.960\nI was able to carry into business.\n\n283\n00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.820\nYou know, I had a lot of times I'd have people come up and I'd make an\n\n284\n00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:46.760\nobservation on one\n\n285\n00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:51.280\nof our leaders or somebody I met and they go, \"How'd you know that?\"\n\n286\n00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:56.830\nAnd well, I just kind of felt it, you know, and I wasn't always right on every\n\n287\n00:13:56.830 --> 00:13:57.760\ninstinct.\n\n288\n00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:01.160\nBut my instincts were pretty damn good when it comes to assessing people.\n\n289\n00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:05.580\nWell, something I know about you is you never got your MBA, but that really\n\n290\n00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:06.520\nused to bother\n\n291\n00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:07.520\nyou.\n\n292\n00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:08.520\nWhy?\n\n293\n00:14:08.520 --> 00:14:09.520\nWhy did that bother you?\n\n294\n00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:12.860\nWell, I came up in business where, you know, after I started out as an\n\n295\n00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:13.600\nadvertising\n\n296\n00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:17.560\ncopywriter, but then I got an account management side on the agency business\n\n297\n00:14:17.560 --> 00:14:18.760\nand everybody I\n\n298\n00:14:18.760 --> 00:14:21.440\nworked with on the client side had MBAs.\n\n299\n00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.660\nI had a Bachelor in Journalism degree from a good school to the University of\n\n300\n00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:25.360\nMissouri,\n\n301\n00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:26.560\nbut it wasn't an MBA.\n\n302\n00:14:26.560 --> 00:14:28.440\nSo I was pretty insecure about it.\n\n303\n00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:32.360\nIn fact, anytime people started talking about where they got their MBA, I\n\n304\n00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:32.920\nusually went\n\n305\n00:14:32.920 --> 00:14:37.520\nto the restroom, you know, and then I came back after that discussion went.\n\n306\n00:14:37.520 --> 00:14:41.800\nBut I learned that over time, it's what you do that really matters.\n\n307\n00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:47.010\nI think MBAs are great and anybody that gets the MBA, I think it opens up doors\n\n308\n00:14:47.010 --> 00:14:48.240\nfor you.\n\n309\n00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.640\nBut once that door is open, it doesn't matter if you have an MBA or not.\n\n310\n00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:56.430\nWhat matters is what kind of results you generate and what kind of leader you\n\n311\n00:14:56.430 --> 00:14:56.880\nare.\n\n312\n00:14:56.880 --> 00:14:58.240\nThat's what really matters.\n\n313\n00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:05.040\nAnd it took me a while to get secure in the fact that I didn't have that MBA.\n\n314\n00:15:05.040 --> 00:15:07.160\nBut I was able to get over it.\n\n315\n00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:11.760\nWell, I think it's pretty safe to say you've been fine without it.\n\n316\n00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:17.720\nWell, I tell you what, I've had a lot of great MBAs make me look good, okay?\n\n317\n00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.680\nAnd you know, and I need all the help that I can get.\n\n318\n00:15:20.680 --> 00:15:21.680\nOkay.\n\n319\n00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:25.360\nSo before I met you, when I really started learning about your career, I heard\n\n320\n00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:25.920\nall about\n\n321\n00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:27.840\nthe recognition culture.\n\n322\n00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:32.040\nIt was not surprising at all that you all were successful in growing that\n\n323\n00:15:32.040 --> 00:15:32.840\nbusiness.\n\n324\n00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:39.340\nBut then I read your new book, How Leaders Learn and realize that learning has\n\n325\n00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:39.960\nbeen your\n\n326\n00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.210\nsuperpower and something that I also believe has helped you be really\n\n327\n00:15:44.210 --> 00:15:45.240\nsuccessful.\n\n328\n00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:46.640\nTalk more about that.\n\n329\n00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:51.280\nWell, the best leaders that I've met are what I call active learners.\n\n330\n00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:54.890\nThey're constantly seeking knowledge and then they pair that knowledge or\n\n331\n00:15:54.890 --> 00:15:55.840\nwhatever insight\n\n332\n00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.040\nthey get with action.\n\n333\n00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:00.800\nThat's something that I've done throughout my career.\n\n334\n00:16:00.800 --> 00:16:05.990\nYou know, and I think part of what really drove my learning mindset is I was\n\n335\n00:16:05.990 --> 00:16:06.720\nvery, very\n\n336\n00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.200\ncompetitive.\n\n337\n00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.000\nI wanted to be the best at whatever I was.\n\n338\n00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.960\nSo if I had a job, I didn't want any of my peers to beat me.\n\n339\n00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.360\nYou know, I wanted to be the best at it.\n\n340\n00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.530\nAnd I quickly learned the way how you get better at something is you learn\n\n341\n00:16:20.530 --> 00:16:21.120\neverything\n\n342\n00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.480\nyou can about it.\n\n343\n00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:27.900\nAnd you learn as much as you can from anybody that knows more than you or any\n\n344\n00:16:27.900 --> 00:16:28.760\nbook that you\n\n345\n00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:33.500\ncan read or any person that, you know, might be in another industry that's\n\n346\n00:16:33.500 --> 00:16:34.800\ndoing something.\n\n347\n00:16:34.800 --> 00:16:39.120\nAnd then you apply that learning and do what I call pattern thinking.\n\n348\n00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.000\nIf somebody's doing this over here, how could I do it in a way that's right and\n\n349\n00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:44.480\ntrue to\n\n350\n00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.640\nwho I am and make myself better or make my business better.\n\n351\n00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:54.900\nAnd I think that learning orientation that I had clearly helped me get a lot\n\n352\n00:16:54.900 --> 00:16:55.800\nmore done\n\n353\n00:16:55.800 --> 00:17:00.830\nthan I would have if I would have just been insular and relied on my own know\n\n354\n00:17:00.830 --> 00:17:01.440\nhow.\n\n355\n00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.120\nI always say it really expanded your IQ points.\n\n356\n00:17:04.120 --> 00:17:10.040\nI think I became a lot smarter because I learned from everybody else than just\n\n357\n00:17:10.040 --> 00:17:11.000\nrelying on what\n\n358\n00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.000\nI know.\n\n359\n00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.480\nAnd what I love is how you still do that today, even just this last week.\n\n360\n00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:21.430\nYou forwarded a newsletter from another podcast host and you said, let's do\n\n361\n00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:22.840\nsome pattern thinking\n\n362\n00:17:22.840 --> 00:17:24.040\non this.\n\n363\n00:17:24.040 --> 00:17:30.520\nSo I just love this desire that you have to look for insights everywhere.\n\n364\n00:17:30.520 --> 00:17:34.410\nAnd even just something as simple as an email, you want to pull the learnings\n\n365\n00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:35.200\nfrom that.\n\n366\n00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.600\nI just think it's such a great perspective.\n\n367\n00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:40.440\nWell pattern thinking is something that I write about in the book.\n\n368\n00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.240\nIt's one of the chapters.\n\n369\n00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.990\nAnd the example I use that I love the most that I always refer to was when I\n\n370\n00:17:46.990 --> 00:17:47.920\nwas working\n\n371\n00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.520\non the free delay account, we were looking for new product ideas.\n\n372\n00:17:52.520 --> 00:17:56.600\nSo I said to my team, I said, we got to come up with some new product ideas for\n\n373\n00:17:56.600 --> 00:17:57.360\nDoritos.\n\n374\n00:17:57.360 --> 00:18:00.670\nLet's go to the grocery store and I want to just walk around and look at every\n\n375\n00:18:00.670 --> 00:18:01.040\naisle\n\n376\n00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:05.820\nand just see what's going on in the world of package goods and see if there's\n\n377\n00:18:05.820 --> 00:18:06.600\nanything\n\n378\n00:18:06.600 --> 00:18:08.760\nthat we might be able to learn.\n\n379\n00:18:08.760 --> 00:18:11.680\nAnd so we went and we walked all around.\n\n380\n00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.200\nWe came to the salad dressing aisle.\n\n381\n00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:19.880\nAnd at the time, ranch flavored salad dressing was the most popular new flavor.\n\n382\n00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.680\nIt had more facings, they had more point of purchase up.\n\n383\n00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:24.920\nAnd so I came back with my team.\n\n384\n00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.760\nI said, what if we came up with a ranch flavored Doritos?\n\n385\n00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:29.480\nThey said, oh, that's a good idea.\n\n386\n00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.360\nSo I called up Dennis Hurd, who's the head of R&D from free delay.\n\n387\n00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:36.200\nAnd I said, you think we could make a ranch flavored Doritos?\n\n388\n00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:37.680\nHe said, yeah, I know we could.\n\n389\n00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:42.560\nI said, it seems to be like the fastest growing flavor in the salad dressing\n\n390\n00:18:42.560 --> 00:18:43.520\ncategory.\n\n391\n00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:44.760\nLet's give it a go.\n\n392\n00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:48.720\nSo man, I would never forget when those came off the line in the lab, you know,\n\n393\n00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.600\nwhen they\n\n394\n00:18:49.600 --> 00:18:51.160\nwere so good.\n\n395\n00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:54.560\nAnd I said, holy cow, this is a home run.\n\n396\n00:18:54.560 --> 00:18:55.800\nEverybody loved it.\n\n397\n00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:57.600\nAnd then we got to name this product.\n\n398\n00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:02.060\nNow there we went and did some pattern thinking because nacho cheese Doritos\n\n399\n00:19:02.060 --> 00:19:03.140\nwas the big flavor\n\n400\n00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:04.140\nfor Doritos.\n\n401\n00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:06.040\nAnd we said, well, what made that unique?\n\n402\n00:19:06.040 --> 00:19:08.400\nWell, it's sort of a unique image to a known quantity.\n\n403\n00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.400\nThe known quantity was cheese and nacho was the unique image.\n\n404\n00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.880\nI said, OK, well, the known quantity here is going to be ranch.\n\n405\n00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:16.920\nWhat can we do to give a unique image?\n\n406\n00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.200\nAnd we came up with the idea of calling them cool ranch Doritos.\n\n407\n00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.920\nCool ranch Doritos become a smashing hit.\n\n408\n00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.680\nAnd I always tell people that that just came from pattern thinking.\n\n409\n00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.740\nYou look at something that's seemingly totally different and then bring those\n\n410\n00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:31.960\ntwo things together,\n\n411\n00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.360\nyou come up with something that is unique and innovative.\n\n412\n00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:37.600\nAnd I've done that throughout my career.\n\n413\n00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:41.650\nWhen I was a pizza, I took the team to California Pizza Kitchen because that\n\n414\n00:19:41.650 --> 00:19:42.600\nwas a really hot\n\n415\n00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:43.600\nconcept.\n\n416\n00:19:43.600 --> 00:19:50.160\nAnd they had all these individual pizzas and special toppings like barbecue\n\n417\n00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.800\nchicken toppings,\n\n418\n00:19:51.800 --> 00:19:56.560\nBLT toppings, Thai chicken, all this stuff.\n\n419\n00:19:56.560 --> 00:20:01.240\nAnd I came back and I said, I know we don't have any of these toppings on our\n\n420\n00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:01.920\nmake table\n\n421\n00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:02.920\nat Pizza Hut.\n\n422\n00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.960\nAnd how could we do what California Pizza Kitchen is doing?\n\n423\n00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:12.980\nWhat if we just doubled the number of pepperonis and put them on the pizza and\n\n424\n00:20:12.980 --> 00:20:14.160\ncall them pepperoni\n\n425\n00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.160\nlovers?\n\n426\n00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.360\nWell, that was the most successful product at Pizza Hut since pan pizza.\n\n427\n00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:22.390\nAnd then we said, well, why don't we do the same thing with meat and we created\n\n428\n00:20:22.390 --> 00:20:23.080\nmeat lovers.\n\n429\n00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:24.920\nWe did with cheese and we did cheese lovers.\n\n430\n00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:27.080\nAnd then we did veggies and veggie lovers.\n\n431\n00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:30.520\nAnd we created a specially line of pizzas called the lovers line.\n\n432\n00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:34.920\nAnd it's still, I think one of the highest mixed line items at Pizza Hut.\n\n433\n00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:40.380\nAnd it all came from just looking at what a competitor was doing in a way that\n\n434\n00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:41.000\nwas right\n\n435\n00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.680\nfor them and said, well, how can we do it that's right for us?\n\n436\n00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:45.680\nAnd guess what?\n\n437\n00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.080\nRecord sales and it worked.\n\n438\n00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:52.570\nBut I think those kinds of ideas are out there if you're just a pattern thinker\n\n439\n00:20:52.570 --> 00:20:52.640\n.\n\n440\n00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:54.360\nBut you have your intent for the learning.\n\n441\n00:20:54.360 --> 00:20:59.210\nI think that's the big insight too is learning is your superpower because you\n\n442\n00:20:59.210 --> 00:20:59.960\n're always\n\n443\n00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:01.560\ntrying to learn.\n\n444\n00:21:01.560 --> 00:21:04.720\nBut like you said, apply that learning as well.\n\n445\n00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:08.720\nYou know, speaking of learning, I know that there's a lot that you can learn\n\n446\n00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:09.320\nfrom your\n\n447\n00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:11.720\nwins, the Cool Ridge Doritos example.\n\n448\n00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:13.600\nThere's a lot to be learned there.\n\n449\n00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:17.280\nBut I also know that sometimes it's failures that we learn some of our biggest\n\n450\n00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:18.880\nlessons from.\n\n451\n00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.700\nWhat would you say is one of your bigger learnings that you got from perhaps\n\n452\n00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:23.800\nsomething that didn't\n\n453\n00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:25.760\ngo as planned?\n\n454\n00:21:25.760 --> 00:21:29.320\nOne of the things that I write about in the book is learning from your failures\n\n455\n00:21:29.320 --> 00:21:29.560\n.\n\n456\n00:21:29.560 --> 00:21:33.240\nAnd I love Scott Hamilton, the great figure skater.\n\n457\n00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:35.720\nHe said failing is information.\n\n458\n00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:39.660\nAnd he talks about how many times he fell down, but each time it providing some\n\n459\n00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:40.280\ninformation\n\n460\n00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:42.080\nthat helps him get better.\n\n461\n00:21:42.080 --> 00:21:45.880\nAnd I like the way he frames up at failure.\n\n462\n00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:49.890\nAnd for me, one of my big failures would have been when I launched Crystal\n\n463\n00:21:49.890 --> 00:21:50.560\nPepsi when\n\n464\n00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:52.000\nI was at Pepsi.\n\n465\n00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.760\nAnd it was a great idea.\n\n466\n00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:55.360\nIt was a clear cola.\n\n467\n00:21:55.360 --> 00:22:00.710\nBut the problem was I didn't listen to the objections and the obstacles that\n\n468\n00:22:00.710 --> 00:22:01.440\npeople had\n\n469\n00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.440\non Crystal Pepsi.\n\n470\n00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.180\nOur franchise bottlers, for example, told me I needed to have more flavor notes\n\n471\n00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.480\nlike\n\n472\n00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.680\nPepsi Cola.\n\n473\n00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.640\nAnd I said, no, I don't want it to have flavor notes like Pepsi Cola.\n\n474\n00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.240\nI wanted to get in incremental users and all this.\n\n475\n00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.280\nI didn't listen to what they had to say.\n\n476\n00:22:16.280 --> 00:22:22.320\nAnd early on in my career, I used to teach this learning principle called some\n\n477\n00:22:22.320 --> 00:22:23.000\npeople\n\n478\n00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:27.000\nwho will say it can't be done every step of the way.\n\n479\n00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:31.870\nWhat I realized over time was the first thing you got to ask yourself is, are\n\n480\n00:22:31.870 --> 00:22:34.200\nthey right?\n\n481\n00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:35.200\nIs what they're questioning?\n\n482\n00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.800\nDoes that make sense?\n\n483\n00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:41.580\nIn the case of Crystal Pepsi, our franchise bottlers have been around for a\n\n484\n00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:42.320\nlong time.\n\n485\n00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:43.720\nThey said, you're calling it Crystal Pepsi.\n\n486\n00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:45.520\nIt doesn't taste enough like Pepsi.\n\n487\n00:22:45.520 --> 00:22:47.400\nThat's going to upset our customers.\n\n488\n00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:51.420\nThey might come in and they might buy it, but they're not going to try it again\n\n489\n00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:51.720\n.\n\n490\n00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.920\nI said, you don't get it.\n\n491\n00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.840\nAnd I just thought they just didn't get how brilliant I was.\n\n492\n00:22:57.840 --> 00:23:05.790\nAnd as it turned out, Pepsi sold a ton of Crystal Pepsi, but it was a classic\n\n493\n00:23:05.790 --> 00:23:06.880\nboom splat.\n\n494\n00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:12.000\nWe sold a ton in the first three months, but then the repeat was very low.\n\n495\n00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.280\nAnd you know what we learned?\n\n496\n00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:15.560\nWas the reason why the repeat was so low?\n\n497\n00:23:15.560 --> 00:23:18.400\nDidn't taste enough like Pepsi.\n\n498\n00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.800\nAnd the bottlers were right, but I didn't listen to them.\n\n499\n00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:27.280\nThe other thing about learning from failure is you also learn that if you don't\n\n500\n00:23:27.280 --> 00:23:27.960\nget people\n\n501\n00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:31.320\ninvolved, you'll never get their commitment.\n\n502\n00:23:31.320 --> 00:23:34.040\nAnd so I was like a heat-seeking missile with Crystal Pepsi.\n\n503\n00:23:34.040 --> 00:23:37.360\nI was going to launch that no matter what anybody thought.\n\n504\n00:23:37.360 --> 00:23:41.350\nAnd I didn't get the franchise bottlers involved and ask them what they thought\n\n505\n00:23:41.350 --> 00:23:42.000\nand really\n\n506\n00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.680\nlisten to what the potential obstacles could be.\n\n507\n00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.120\nAnd so when we launched the product, there was not a whole lot of commitment to\n\n508\n00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:48.560\nmaking\n\n509\n00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:49.560\nit work.\n\n510\n00:23:49.560 --> 00:23:51.000\nAnd that was the other thing.\n\n511\n00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.840\nThey premium priced it.\n\n512\n00:23:52.840 --> 00:23:55.280\nAnd I said, wow, we never premium price products.\n\n513\n00:23:55.280 --> 00:23:57.560\nWe always make it low so the people will try it.\n\n514\n00:23:57.560 --> 00:23:59.720\nAnd they go, that's all right.\n\n515\n00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:01.400\nIt's not going to be around that long.\n\n516\n00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.240\nWe might as well make some money on it.\n\n517\n00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:04.480\nAnd they did.\n\n518\n00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:05.480\nAnd they made a lot of money.\n\n519\n00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:09.180\nThat's probably why I didn't get fired, is because they did make a lot of money\n\n520\n00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:09.320\n.\n\n521\n00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:13.230\nBut there was no real commitment because they didn't feel like they'd been\n\n522\n00:24:13.230 --> 00:24:13.960\ninvolved.\n\n523\n00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.160\nAnd they didn't feel like they'd been listened to.\n\n524\n00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.360\nThat was a big leadership lesson for me.\n\n525\n00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:20.920\nNo involvement, no commitment.\n\n526\n00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:25.920\nHow do you squeeze out the most learnings from a situation like that?\n\n527\n00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.180\nDo you have a process where you're sitting down to reflect and doing after\n\n528\n00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:30.920\naction?\n\n529\n00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:31.920\nAre you just daydreaming?\n\n530\n00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.720\nI mean, how do you do that to get the most value out of the learning?\n\n531\n00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:41.040\nI always try to have a lot of self-reflection and post-analysis.\n\n532\n00:24:41.040 --> 00:24:45.360\nAnd one of the things that I learned this from was by going to Walmart.\n\n533\n00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:48.160\nThey used to run the same promotion every year.\n\n534\n00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.270\nBut after the promotion, they had what they called a correction of errors\n\n535\n00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:53.480\nprocess.\n\n536\n00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.200\nAnd where they would literally document what they could have done better.\n\n537\n00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.870\nThey'd run that same promotion the next year by making the improvements that\n\n538\n00:25:01.870 --> 00:25:02.320\nthey knew\n\n539\n00:25:02.320 --> 00:25:03.800\nwould make it a better promotion.\n\n540\n00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:07.500\nAnd they did that year after year after year versus just trying to reinvent the\n\n541\n00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:08.120\nwheel all\n\n542\n00:25:08.120 --> 00:25:09.120\nthe time.\n\n543\n00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:14.240\nI learned the power of having a correction of errors process.\n\n544\n00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:20.940\nA reflection process, a codification process where you diagnosed what made\n\n545\n00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:21.880\nsomething work\n\n546\n00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.000\nand what could have been better.\n\n547\n00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.440\nAnd I think that's how you learn from successes and failures.\n\n548\n00:25:28.440 --> 00:25:32.520\nYou really need to take the time to say, \"Okay, we just did this.\n\n549\n00:25:32.520 --> 00:25:33.520\nWhat worked?\n\n550\n00:25:33.520 --> 00:25:34.840\nWhat didn't work?\"\n\n551\n00:25:34.840 --> 00:25:39.650\nI think that really allows you to garner the learning that goes into your\n\n552\n00:25:39.650 --> 00:25:40.800\nmemory bank that's\n\n553\n00:25:40.800 --> 00:25:46.730\ngoing to help you get better and better as an individual leader and also as a\n\n554\n00:25:46.730 --> 00:25:47.880\nbusiness.\n\n555\n00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:50.760\nSo I'm holding your book here page 61.\n\n556\n00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:52.840\nYou talk about the failures.\n\n557\n00:25:52.840 --> 00:25:57.680\nI love the chapter title, \"The Worst Way to Get on SNL.\"\n\n558\n00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:00.400\nAnd it's that whole Crystal Pepsi story.\n\n559\n00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.720\nBut I'm curious to know why don't you hide from this story.\n\n560\n00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.840\nIt just feels like you're writing it in a book.\n\n561\n00:26:06.840 --> 00:26:07.840\nYou're putting it out there.\n\n562\n00:26:07.840 --> 00:26:10.640\nI've heard you share the story before.\n\n563\n00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:13.360\nWhy don't you hide from your failures?\n\n564\n00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:17.960\nWell, I used to teach this leadership program and I taught it to 4,000 people\n\n565\n00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:19.400\nat young brands.\n\n566\n00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:24.700\nOne of the things that I learned is people often know more times than not\n\n567\n00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:25.760\nanyway, how\n\n568\n00:26:25.760 --> 00:26:29.850\nyou got where you are and why you've been successful, what are all the big wins\n\n569\n00:26:29.850 --> 00:26:30.160\nthat\n\n570\n00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.800\nyou've had in your life.\n\n571\n00:26:31.800 --> 00:26:36.240\nThey don't really know how you failed along the way.\n\n572\n00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:42.210\nAnd the stories that they love the most were me telling the times that I failed\n\n573\n00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:43.200\n, the times\n\n574\n00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.040\nI could have done something better.\n\n575\n00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:46.680\nThey didn't know those.\n\n576\n00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:51.220\nAnd they really appreciate the fact as a leader that I would be honest enough\n\n577\n00:26:51.220 --> 00:26:52.160\nand vulnerable\n\n578\n00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.120\nenough to really talk about my screw ups.\n\n579\n00:26:56.120 --> 00:26:58.920\nAnd it was one of the favorite parts of the program by far.\n\n580\n00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.440\nI mean, people loved hearing that.\n\n581\n00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:05.480\nAnd I have a bunch of crystal Pepsi, solar shades at Pizza Hut.\n\n582\n00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.960\nI have a lot of failures.\n\n583\n00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:10.880\nBut fortunately, I have more wins in the end.\n\n584\n00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:12.000\nYou do have to win.\n\n585\n00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:18.370\nBut I think talking about those opportunities that I had to fail and then learn\n\n586\n00:27:18.370 --> 00:27:19.080\nfrom it\n\n587\n00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:24.490\nand what I learned and how it really drove my future actions is something that\n\n588\n00:27:24.490 --> 00:27:24.720\npeople\n\n589\n00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.000\nreally appreciated the most.\n\n590\n00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:32.780\nBefore you launch into any project, you're somebody who wants to go find the\n\n591\n00:27:32.780 --> 00:27:34.000\nbest practices\n\n592\n00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.720\nfrom other people who've done a similar thing.\n\n593\n00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.280\nSo take me back to the early days at Yum.\n\n594\n00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:45.280\nHow did you even decide what you wanted to stand for and what kind of company\n\n595\n00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:45.960\nyou really\n\n596\n00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:47.520\nwanted to create?\n\n597\n00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:52.390\nWell, the one thing I wanted to do at Yum brands more than anything was we'd\n\n598\n00:27:52.390 --> 00:27:52.860\njust been\n\n599\n00:27:52.860 --> 00:27:54.600\nspun off from PepsiCo.\n\n600\n00:27:54.600 --> 00:27:56.960\nSo we were kind of seen as the ugly ducklings.\n\n601\n00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:00.610\nWe'd become this new company, but we had these three brands that Pepsi had not\n\n602\n00:28:00.610 --> 00:28:01.200\nbeen able\n\n603\n00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:02.200\nto grow.\n\n604\n00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.420\nAnd there were a lot of questions about, you know, what kind of company we'd\n\n605\n00:28:05.420 --> 00:28:06.960\nwant to be\n\n606\n00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.000\nor we could be.\n\n607\n00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.560\nAnd I felt we could be great.\n\n608\n00:28:09.560 --> 00:28:12.600\nI felt like we had three incredible brands.\n\n609\n00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:15.960\nWe had a great international opportunity.\n\n610\n00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:21.710\nAnd I felt that we had the opportunity to really do something that could become\n\n611\n00:28:21.710 --> 00:28:22.920\nhistoric.\n\n612\n00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.480\nAnd one of the things that I knew that was going to be critical to us was that\n\n613\n00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:28.040\nwe grow\n\n614\n00:28:28.040 --> 00:28:33.200\nour stock price and we had to figure out how to do that in the right way.\n\n615\n00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.360\nAnd one thing about great companies is they don't get results just one year.\n\n616\n00:28:38.360 --> 00:28:40.560\nThey get results every year.\n\n617\n00:28:40.560 --> 00:28:42.160\nIt's consistent.\n\n618\n00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:47.110\nSo I wanted to go out and really learn from the companies that had consistently\n\n619\n00:28:47.110 --> 00:28:47.560\ngreat\n\n620\n00:28:47.560 --> 00:28:49.120\nresults.\n\n621\n00:28:49.120 --> 00:28:54.690\nAnd back then, that meant Wal-Mart, Southwest Airlines, Home Depot, General\n\n622\n00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:55.600\nElectric at\n\n623\n00:28:55.600 --> 00:28:59.880\nthat time was an absolute powerhouse, no pun intended.\n\n624\n00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.040\nBut you know, these were the great companies.\n\n625\n00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:05.240\nAnd so we went out as a leadership team.\n\n626\n00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:06.880\nWe met with them.\n\n627\n00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.570\nWe wanted to understand what was it that they were doing that drove consistent\n\n628\n00:29:11.570 --> 00:29:12.280\nresults.\n\n629\n00:29:12.280 --> 00:29:15.880\nAnd so we codified our key learnings.\n\n630\n00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:21.190\nI came back with our team and I said, okay, we're going to build the Yum\n\n631\n00:29:21.190 --> 00:29:22.120\nDynasty.\n\n632\n00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:24.800\nAnd these are going to be the Yum Dynasty drivers.\n\n633\n00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:27.080\nWhat did we learn from these great companies?\n\n634\n00:29:27.080 --> 00:29:31.800\nAnd we learned that the great companies create a culture where everyone counts.\n\n635\n00:29:31.800 --> 00:29:33.680\nThat was the most important thing.\n\n636\n00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.080\nThat was the thing they talked about the most.\n\n637\n00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:40.920\nThe great companies are maniacal about customers.\n\n638\n00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:45.490\nThey do everything they can to provide value and listen and respond to their\n\n639\n00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:46.440\ncustomers.\n\n640\n00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:51.320\nThe great companies had competitive differentiation in everything that they do.\n\n641\n00:29:51.320 --> 00:29:57.680\nThey would literally try to exaggerate what made them different in every way.\n\n642\n00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:00.480\nAnd it wasn't just one aspect of the business.\n\n643\n00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:04.850\nIt was every aspect of what their brand was so that they really stood for\n\n644\n00:30:04.850 --> 00:30:05.480\nsomething.\n\n645\n00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.720\nThen the great companies had continuity in people and processes, process and\n\n646\n00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:09.280\ndiscipline\n\n647\n00:30:09.280 --> 00:30:10.440\naround what really matters.\n\n648\n00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.400\nAnd the last thing they had a continuous beat-year ago mentality.\n\n649\n00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.600\nThat they're going to get better every single year at everything that they did.\n\n650\n00:30:18.600 --> 00:30:21.080\nAnd we called them our Yum Dynasty drivers.\n\n651\n00:30:21.080 --> 00:30:26.440\nWe literally built our company around those five things over my 17 years as a\n\n652\n00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:27.000\nCEO.\n\n653\n00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:28.680\nAnd we got consistent results.\n\n654\n00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:33.920\nWe had 13 straight years of at least 13 percent EPS growth.\n\n655\n00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.160\nOur stock went nuts.\n\n656\n00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.080\nWe had great success.\n\n657\n00:30:38.080 --> 00:30:43.660\nI think it's because we very early on learned from the great companies and then\n\n658\n00:30:43.660 --> 00:30:44.160\nwere active\n\n659\n00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.560\nlearners and started implementing the things that we knew that great companies\n\n660\n00:30:48.560 --> 00:30:49.120\ndid to get\n\n661\n00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:53.280\nthe consistent results.\n\n662\n00:30:53.280 --> 00:30:57.320\nHey, everyone.\n\n663\n00:30:57.320 --> 00:30:58.920\nIt's Kula from Three More Questions.\n\n664\n00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:04.340\nI am so excited to announce that David's new book, How Leaders Learn is Now\n\n665\n00:31:04.340 --> 00:31:05.560\nAvailable.\n\n666\n00:31:05.560 --> 00:31:08.930\nThe book is all about helping you master the habit of active learning, which is\n\n667\n00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:09.520\nthe number\n\n668\n00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:13.080\none skill of the world's most successful leaders.\n\n669\n00:31:13.080 --> 00:31:16.270\nHow leaders learn will help you become an active learner so that you too can\n\n670\n00:31:16.270 --> 00:31:16.880\nexperience\n\n671\n00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:21.320\nthe success you really want in your life and in your career.\n\n672\n00:31:21.320 --> 00:31:25.490\nAnd if you forward your receipt to book@howleaderslead.com, you'll get\n\n673\n00:31:25.490 --> 00:31:28.720\nimmediate access to exclusive bonus content,\n\n674\n00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.600\nforward your receipt to book@howleaderslead.com.\n\n675\n00:31:31.600 --> 00:31:33.560\nAnd I promise you're going to love it.\n\n676\n00:31:33.560 --> 00:31:45.690\nTalk about Andy Pearson and the impact that he had, not only on the company,\n\n677\n00:31:45.690 --> 00:31:46.360\nbut just also\n\n678\n00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:48.120\non you personally.\n\n679\n00:31:48.120 --> 00:31:52.640\nWell, Andy Pearson was the co-founder of Young Brands with me.\n\n680\n00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:58.080\nAndy was my best friend when he was passed away at 80 years old.\n\n681\n00:31:58.080 --> 00:31:59.840\nI spoke at his funeral.\n\n682\n00:31:59.840 --> 00:32:04.420\nI loved him because he believed so much in me and cared so much about me and\n\n683\n00:32:04.420 --> 00:32:05.200\ndeveloped\n\n684\n00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:06.200\nme so much.\n\n685\n00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.640\nBut the biggest thing in Andy Tom, he was the power of being an avid learner.\n\n686\n00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:16.400\nThis guy read three or four books a month, read the newspaper every day.\n\n687\n00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:20.480\nHe had grandkids and he talked to him about J.Lo and A.Rod.\n\n688\n00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.440\nI mean, he was the coolest guy.\n\n689\n00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.160\nHe introduced me to every great leader of the era.\n\n690\n00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:31.820\nI met Jack Welch because of him, Tom Murphy, just all these guys that were just\n\n691\n00:32:31.820 --> 00:32:33.040\nJohn McGillicuddy.\n\n692\n00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:34.480\nI mean, I could go on and on.\n\n693\n00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:37.240\nHe opened up Al-Kinn-Lango, Sidney Cole.\n\n694\n00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:41.000\nHe knew all these people and he introduced me to everyone of them.\n\n695\n00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.400\nAnd I got to learn from them and play golf with them.\n\n696\n00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.800\nBut he believed in me so much.\n\n697\n00:32:46.800 --> 00:32:49.320\nHe told me, \"David, Jamie Diamond was on our board.\"\n\n698\n00:32:49.320 --> 00:32:53.640\nHe said, \"David, you and Jamie Diamond are going to be the CEOs of your era.\"\n\n699\n00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.520\nI didn't even know what a CEO was.\n\n700\n00:32:55.520 --> 00:32:58.560\nI had to learn how to be a CEO.\n\n701\n00:32:58.560 --> 00:33:02.240\nBut the fact that a guy like that, and he was the former president of PepsiCo,\n\n702\n00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:02.600\nteacher\n\n703\n00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:07.560\nat Harvard Business School, all of this amazing, incredible person that he\n\n704\n00:33:07.560 --> 00:33:08.480\ncould have so much\n\n705\n00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.240\nbelief in me, it gave me so much confidence.\n\n706\n00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:17.280\nI think about Andy a lot, almost every day I think about Andy and how he would\n\n707\n00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:17.960\ngo about\n\n708\n00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:20.840\nlearning something and how excited he'd get about learning.\n\n709\n00:33:20.840 --> 00:33:23.960\nWhen he learned something, he was so excited about it.\n\n710\n00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.630\nAnd the funny story about him, which I love to tell, because he was the\n\n711\n00:33:27.630 --> 00:33:28.800\nbusiness professor\n\n712\n00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:30.840\nat Harvard after PepsiCo.\n\n713\n00:33:30.840 --> 00:33:34.560\nHe was also one of the Fortune's top 10 toughest bosses.\n\n714\n00:33:34.560 --> 00:33:35.800\nHe loved that article.\n\n715\n00:33:35.800 --> 00:33:38.720\nHe loved it so much that he was a hard-ass.\n\n716\n00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:40.200\nHe loved it.\n\n717\n00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:45.080\nBut he goes to Harvard first year and he teaches and he knew everything.\n\n718\n00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:46.320\nHe was the smartest guy in the room.\n\n719\n00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:47.800\nHe really was a smart guy.\n\n720\n00:33:47.800 --> 00:33:50.440\nI mean, he's an incredibly smart guy and tough.\n\n721\n00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:53.330\nAnd he went to class and he just told everybody, \"This is how they needed a\n\n722\n00:33:53.330 --> 00:33:53.920\nthing.\"\n\n723\n00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.920\nAnd so they did a feedback with all the Harvard teachers.\n\n724\n00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.720\nThey get the feedback.\n\n725\n00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.760\nAndy scored lower than every teacher in the entire school.\n\n726\n00:34:04.760 --> 00:34:08.080\nThe worst feedback he ever received in his life.\n\n727\n00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:09.760\nAnd he learned.\n\n728\n00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.960\nHe self-reflected.\n\n729\n00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:11.960\nHe learned why.\n\n730\n00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:15.520\nIt was because he was telling people how they should think.\n\n731\n00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:19.280\nSo then he said, \"Okay, I'm going to come back and I'm going to be the best.\"\n\n732\n00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.040\nAnd then what he does is he uses the case method.\n\n733\n00:34:23.040 --> 00:34:27.830\nHe brings in all of the people that he knew and had them talk about their\n\n734\n00:34:27.830 --> 00:34:28.880\nbusiness.\n\n735\n00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.160\nAnd he used theocratic method of teaching where he would lay out the facts and\n\n736\n00:34:34.160 --> 00:34:34.920\nthen people\n\n737\n00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:40.160\nwould then come up with their own conclusions and their own ideas and answers.\n\n738\n00:34:40.160 --> 00:34:45.050\nHe became more of a synthesizer, an orchestra conductor than a \"my way\" or the\n\n739\n00:34:45.050 --> 00:34:45.960\n\"highway\"\n\n740\n00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.160\ntype of teacher.\n\n741\n00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:48.400\nAnd guess what, Tim?\n\n742\n00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:53.520\nThe next year he got the highest ratings in any professor at Harvard Business\n\n743\n00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:54.280\nSchool.\n\n744\n00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.280\nBut he's a learner.\n\n745\n00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.920\nSee, and that's what I talked about in the book.\n\n746\n00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:03.500\nIt's just the power of learning and self-reflection, using opportunities to\n\n747\n00:35:03.500 --> 00:35:04.960\ntake even what, in\n\n748\n00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:10.200\nthat case, was obviously a failure and turn it into a huge win.\n\n749\n00:35:10.200 --> 00:35:12.960\nThat's what Andy Pearson had in his DNA.\n\n750\n00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.920\nAnd that was the shadow that he cast.\n\n751\n00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.580\nSo here you are, you talked about being this guy who has given out rubber\n\n752\n00:35:20.580 --> 00:35:21.400\nchickens.\n\n753\n00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:26.410\nAnd then you partnered up with this guy who, fortune, you know, named one of\n\n754\n00:35:26.410 --> 00:35:27.480\nthe top 10\n\n755\n00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.400\ntoughest bosses in the United States.\n\n756\n00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:38.340\nWhat advice would you give to others on how to make differences a strength on a\n\n757\n00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:39.000\nteam?\n\n758\n00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.260\nThe biggest thing I would say in this particular situation is you have to have\n\n759\n00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:45.200\nproductive conflict.\n\n760\n00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:47.880\nYou have to get the issue out on the table.\n\n761\n00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.440\nWhen I met with Andy, you know, we were going to team up and run young brands.\n\n762\n00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.200\nI said, \"Andy, you're a senior as a hard-ass.\n\n763\n00:35:54.200 --> 00:35:55.200\nI love you.\n\n764\n00:35:55.200 --> 00:35:56.200\nYou're smart.\n\n765\n00:35:56.200 --> 00:35:57.720\nYou know, I love learning for me, but you're a senior as a hard-ass.\n\n766\n00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:58.720\nI'm a hard-ass too.\n\n767\n00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:02.080\nIn the sense that I'm a winner in the sense of trying to get great results.\n\n768\n00:36:02.080 --> 00:36:04.280\nI want to get results just the same way you do.\n\n769\n00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:05.360\nBut I go about a different way.\n\n770\n00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:10.700\nI give away these rubber chickens and cheeseheads and I believe in recognizing\n\n771\n00:36:10.700 --> 00:36:11.520\npeople.\n\n772\n00:36:11.520 --> 00:36:14.040\nAnd I said, \"You and I are night and day on this.\"\n\n773\n00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:15.480\nI said, \"Who's your favorite CEO?\"\n\n774\n00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.640\nHe says, \"Bob Crandall.\"\n\n775\n00:36:16.640 --> 00:36:19.960\nWell, Bob Crandall is another one of these tough guys like him.\n\n776\n00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:21.120\nHe ran American Airlines.\n\n777\n00:36:21.120 --> 00:36:24.040\nSo I said, \"My favorite CEO is Herb Keller.\"\n\n778\n00:36:24.040 --> 00:36:28.040\nAnd he was known for drinking wild turkey and spreading love all over Texas\n\n779\n00:36:28.040 --> 00:36:28.920\nwith Southwest\n\n780\n00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.800\nAirlines and having fun, people first and all that.\n\n781\n00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.680\nHe had a book out called \"Nuts.\"\n\n782\n00:36:34.680 --> 00:36:40.440\nAnd I had the book and I said, \"Look, I want to build a company like Southwest\n\n783\n00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:41.480\nAirlines.\n\n784\n00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:44.520\nI don't want to build a company like American Airlines.\n\n785\n00:36:44.520 --> 00:36:47.400\nYou need to read this book and you're going to have to support me because if\n\n786\n00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:47.960\nyou don't\n\n787\n00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:51.600\nsupport me, then we send conflicting messages.\n\n788\n00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:54.600\nIt's just not going to work out.\"\n\n789\n00:36:54.600 --> 00:36:57.850\nAnd so he read the book and he came back to me and he said, \"David, I've read\n\n790\n00:36:57.850 --> 00:36:58.360\nthis.\n\n791\n00:36:58.360 --> 00:36:59.360\nI believe in it.\n\n792\n00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.320\nIt makes sense for a frontline organization.\"\n\n793\n00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:03.320\nAnd I can back you up.\n\n794\n00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.720\nHe said, \"There's only one thing.\n\n795\n00:37:05.720 --> 00:37:06.960\nI want to be the CEO.\n\n796\n00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.600\nI've never been the CEO.\"\n\n797\n00:37:08.600 --> 00:37:11.280\nAnd I said, \"Well, Andy, you can be the CEO.\"\n\n798\n00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:15.520\nI didn't have no problem with that because he was 72, I think, at the time.\n\n799\n00:37:15.520 --> 00:37:19.270\nAnd I figured that if I couldn't show the board within three years that I was\n\n800\n00:37:19.270 --> 00:37:19.800\nthe next\n\n801\n00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.920\nguy, I wouldn't deserve it anyway.\n\n802\n00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:30.520\nBut what's really great is he really learned how to be a frontline believer.\n\n803\n00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:33.680\nFast Company did an article on him a couple of years later and it was called \"\n\n804\n00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:34.320\nAndy Pearson\n\n805\n00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:35.320\nFinds Love.\"\n\n806\n00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:36.320\nOkay?\n\n807\n00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:38.120\nAnd it's so different.\n\n808\n00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:42.120\nAnd he talked about there's a big difference between being tough and tough-\n\n809\n00:37:42.120 --> 00:37:42.760\nminded.\n\n810\n00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:47.490\nAnd they talked about how we had a process around getting results that was\n\n811\n00:37:47.490 --> 00:37:48.360\ndifferent.\n\n812\n00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.440\nAnd he talked about what he learned from me and what I learned from him.\n\n813\n00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:54.440\nAnd it was great.\n\n814\n00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:57.720\nAt the end, he basically said, \"I was too tough.\"\n\n815\n00:37:57.720 --> 00:38:01.560\nAnd he was too soft.\n\n816\n00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:03.480\nI guess that's the way it works.\n\n817\n00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.340\nI don't know if you picked this up for me, Andy, but something that I\n\n818\n00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:07.200\nappreciate about\n\n819\n00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:09.640\nyou is how direct you can be.\n\n820\n00:38:09.640 --> 00:38:14.680\nAnd I just feel like people always know where they stand with you.\n\n821\n00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:18.830\nTalk to me about how you give feedback because I know you really do have a\n\n822\n00:38:18.830 --> 00:38:19.840\nprocess around\n\n823\n00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.840\nthis.\n\n824\n00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:25.640\nWell, I think that feedback is really important and everybody really needs it.\n\n825\n00:38:25.640 --> 00:38:27.200\nIt's the key to improvement.\n\n826\n00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:32.780\nBut I think what you have to do is respect the individual when you give the\n\n827\n00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:33.920\nfeedback.\n\n828\n00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.160\nNow, what do I mean by that?\n\n829\n00:38:36.160 --> 00:38:41.740\nIf someone has worked hard on something or has put effort in on something, you\n\n830\n00:38:41.740 --> 00:38:42.080\nhave to\n\n831\n00:38:42.080 --> 00:38:44.320\nacknowledge that.\n\n832\n00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:46.560\nAnd then I follow a very simple process.\n\n833\n00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:50.860\nAnd it's basically as I start out with, \"Here's what I appreciate about what I\n\n834\n00:38:50.860 --> 00:38:52.160\njust saw or\n\n835\n00:38:52.160 --> 00:38:54.880\nwhat I just heard or what you just presented.\"\n\n836\n00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:01.140\nAnd once you start out with that, people are then very open to hearing feedback\n\n837\n00:39:01.140 --> 00:39:01.520\n.\n\n838\n00:39:01.520 --> 00:39:05.480\nBut if you just go straight to the negative, they go, \"Gosh, that guy doesn't\n\n839\n00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:06.240\neven realize\n\n840\n00:39:06.240 --> 00:39:08.360\nhow much work I put into this.\"\n\n841\n00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:11.480\nHe didn't hear a thing I said or whatever.\n\n842\n00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:13.720\nBut I always start out with, \"Here's what I appreciate.\"\n\n843\n00:39:13.720 --> 00:39:16.680\nAnd then I say, \"And not but.\"\n\n844\n00:39:16.680 --> 00:39:20.280\nHere's how I think you can be even more effective.\n\n845\n00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:24.550\nThat method of feedback really works because it shows that you have appreciated\n\n846\n00:39:24.550 --> 00:39:25.400\nwhat somebody\n\n847\n00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:26.400\nhas done.\n\n848\n00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:31.340\nOnce you've shown them that appreciation, they're going to hear the\n\n849\n00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:32.600\nconstructive feedback\n\n850\n00:39:32.600 --> 00:39:34.680\nthat you have to make something better.\n\n851\n00:39:34.680 --> 00:39:36.960\nThat works every single time.\n\n852\n00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.320\nAnd I actually use that when I would have group meetings.\n\n853\n00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:43.010\nIf somebody made a presentation, I say, \"Okay, let's start with everybody going\n\n854\n00:39:43.010 --> 00:39:43.480\naround the\n\n855\n00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:44.480\nroom.\n\n856\n00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.200\nWhat did you appreciate about what you saw?\"\n\n857\n00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:49.520\nAnd then I would say, \"Okay, and how could it be even more effective?\"\n\n858\n00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:50.760\nAnd everybody go around and do that.\n\n859\n00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.920\nAnd then you give the feedback and somebody, \"That's a great way to get some\n\n860\n00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:54.920\ngreat feedback.\"\n\n861\n00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:59.660\nNow sometimes somebody presents something that's terrible and you don't have\n\n862\n00:39:59.660 --> 00:40:00.920\nany appreciation.\n\n863\n00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:01.920\nYou can't fake it.\n\n864\n00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:06.890\nYou can say, \"Hey, Tim, you might have worked hard on this, but I don't really\n\n865\n00:40:06.890 --> 00:40:07.640\nsee a whole\n\n866\n00:40:07.640 --> 00:40:10.760\nlot of redeeming qualities than what I heard here.\n\n867\n00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.800\nSo I'm not saying you're fakie about anything.\n\n868\n00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:15.760\nYou got to be genuine about it.\n\n869\n00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.910\nIn most cases, there's usually something that you can tell people that you\n\n870\n00:40:18.910 --> 00:40:19.440\nappreciate\n\n871\n00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:21.240\nabout what happened.\n\n872\n00:40:21.240 --> 00:40:26.320\nBeing on the receiving end, and at this point, you've probably given me that\n\n873\n00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:27.400\nfeedback hundreds\n\n874\n00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:29.200\nof times.\n\n875\n00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:32.600\nIt does have this sense of putting you at ease.\n\n876\n00:40:32.600 --> 00:40:37.630\nYou feel respected because you could have been grinding on the presentation or\n\n877\n00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:38.560\nwhatever.\n\n878\n00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:44.430\nSo you feel appreciated by that and that it also makes you want to step in and\n\n879\n00:40:44.430 --> 00:40:45.160\nlean into\n\n880\n00:40:45.160 --> 00:40:46.160\nthe feedback.\n\n881\n00:40:46.160 --> 00:40:47.400\nSo it works.\n\n882\n00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.480\nAnd I love the very simple process that you do follow in that.\n\n883\n00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.060\nBut I think one of the things that works for you, Tim, is that you want the\n\n884\n00:40:54.060 --> 00:40:54.600\nfeedback.\n\n885\n00:40:54.600 --> 00:40:59.040\nI think that people need to learn the power of wanting feedback and letting\n\n886\n00:40:59.040 --> 00:40:59.840\npeople know\n\n887\n00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:01.200\nyou want the feedback.\n\n888\n00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:05.420\nIt's like one of the things in how leaders learn that I write about is that you\n\n889\n00:41:05.420 --> 00:41:06.040\nneed truth\n\n890\n00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:07.040\ntellers.\n\n891\n00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:08.440\nEverybody needs to have a truth teller.\n\n892\n00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:11.200\nIn my life, my wife, Wendy, was the best truth teller.\n\n893\n00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:15.160\nShe would tell me what I did well and what I could do better.\n\n894\n00:41:15.160 --> 00:41:19.760\nAnd I knew she had my best interest at heart, but I wanted her feedback.\n\n895\n00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:23.190\nYou have to open yourself up for feedback so that people know that you're\n\n896\n00:41:23.190 --> 00:41:23.800\nwilling to\n\n897\n00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:24.800\ntake it.\n\n898\n00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.600\nAnd I always try to follow the three question rule.\n\n899\n00:41:27.600 --> 00:41:29.900\nA lot of times I would go in, especially when you have a lot of power, you're\n\n900\n00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:31.320\nthe CEO,\n\n901\n00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:33.400\nor it didn't matter if I was just running the team.\n\n902\n00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:37.160\nIt didn't matter what level I was, but it's even more important when you're the\n\n903\n00:41:37.160 --> 00:41:38.600\ntop person.\n\n904\n00:41:38.600 --> 00:41:43.320\nI would ask somebody what they would do if they were me.\n\n905\n00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.080\nAnd they would say, \"Oh, nothing.\n\n906\n00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:46.080\nYou're great.\n\n907\n00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:47.080\nEverything's great.\"\n\n908\n00:41:47.080 --> 00:41:48.760\nAnd I'd say, \"Well, what would you do if you're me?\"\n\n909\n00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:49.760\n\"Oh, nothing.\n\n910\n00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:50.760\nYou're really great.\"\n\n911\n00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:51.760\nOkay.\n\n912\n00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:52.760\nThen I'd ask that question a third time.\n\n913\n00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.370\nAnd they'd say, \"Well, you might want to take a look at the process that we\n\n914\n00:41:57.370 --> 00:41:57.840\nhave in\n\n915\n00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.320\nour restaurant where we're asking people to do XX and X, which is so\n\n916\n00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:02.360\nbureaucratic.\n\n917\n00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.400\nBut I had to ask three questions to get it out of people.\n\n918\n00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:08.280\nBut that's what you need to do if you really want to get feedback.\n\n919\n00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.720\nYou have to want the feedback.\n\n920\n00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:15.480\nYou have an interesting routine that you do to start the year.\n\n921\n00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:22.040\nTell me about your annual ritual and what your motivation is behind it.\n\n922\n00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:27.000\nWell, every year I try to have a period of self-reflection.\n\n923\n00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:31.120\nI get feedback from people I respect.\n\n924\n00:42:31.120 --> 00:42:35.800\nAnd I think about what I have to do in the following year.\n\n925\n00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.520\nAnd I do what I call my three by five exercise.\n\n926\n00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:42.840\nI get a three by five card out or a four by six that doesn't really matter.\n\n927\n00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.600\nBut you got to get a no card out.\n\n928\n00:42:45.600 --> 00:42:46.760\nAnd I write on half of it.\n\n929\n00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:48.920\nI go, \"What am I today?\"\n\n930\n00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:51.920\nLike I might be passionate.\n\n931\n00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:52.920\nOkay?\n\n932\n00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.360\nWhat do I want to be tomorrow?\n\n933\n00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:59.990\nAnd when I think about how I can be even more effective, I might want to say I\n\n934\n00:42:59.990 --> 00:43:00.480\nwant to\n\n935\n00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:07.170\ntemper my enthusiasm because I'm so passionate I can overwhelm people to the\n\n936\n00:43:07.170 --> 00:43:08.560\npoint where they're\n\n937\n00:43:08.560 --> 00:43:13.640\nafraid of me and giving me ideas that might be contrary to what I think.\n\n938\n00:43:13.640 --> 00:43:14.640\nThat's just an example.\n\n939\n00:43:14.640 --> 00:43:16.320\nBut I do a three by five card.\n\n940\n00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.160\nIt might be a skill that I might pick.\n\n941\n00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:20.480\nI'm a traditional marketing person.\n\n942\n00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:21.480\nOkay?\n\n943\n00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.690\nWell, now what I have to do to be more effective tomorrow, I got to understand\n\n944\n00:43:25.690 --> 00:43:26.480\nsocial media\n\n945\n00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:27.920\nand digital.\n\n946\n00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:28.920\nGet better at that.\n\n947\n00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:34.600\nSo in golf, it might be, you know, I got a good full swing.\n\n948\n00:43:34.600 --> 00:43:37.120\nI got to get a better short game.\n\n949\n00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:40.800\nBut I think really going through that, \"What am I today?\n\n950\n00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.520\nHow can I be more effective tomorrow?\"\n\n951\n00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:46.930\nThen I put that on the refrigerator and I look at it every day and I share it\n\n952\n00:43:46.930 --> 00:43:47.680\nwith,\n\n953\n00:43:47.680 --> 00:43:51.050\nyou know, I would do my three by five card and I would share it with my top 50\n\n954\n00:43:51.050 --> 00:43:51.520\nleaders\n\n955\n00:43:51.520 --> 00:43:53.000\nin the company.\n\n956\n00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.990\nAnd then they would develop their three by five card and I would coach them\n\n957\n00:43:57.990 --> 00:43:58.880\nevery quarter\n\n958\n00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:02.440\non their three by five card and how they were doing.\n\n959\n00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.970\nAnd then I would ask them for feedback on my three by five card and how I would\n\n960\n00:44:05.970 --> 00:44:06.240\ndo.\n\n961\n00:44:06.240 --> 00:44:10.300\nAnd also go through their business objectives and their projects that they were\n\n962\n00:44:10.300 --> 00:44:10.800\nworking\n\n963\n00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.960\non.\n\n964\n00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:16.730\nBut I think you want everybody in your organization in one way, shape or form,\n\n965\n00:44:16.730 --> 00:44:17.760\nsharpening their\n\n966\n00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.760\nacts.\n\n967\n00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:22.120\nAnd I think you as a leader, you got to sharpen your acts.\n\n968\n00:44:22.120 --> 00:44:27.740\nAnd I think there's nothing more sobering than writing something down in a\n\n969\n00:44:27.740 --> 00:44:28.480\nblank sheet\n\n970\n00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.760\nof paper, you know, and then writing that three by five card.\n\n971\n00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:34.120\nWhen you write it down, it means something.\n\n972\n00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:38.440\nAnd then, you know, you look at it every day, you try to stay true to it.\n\n973\n00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:43.340\nWell, I know a big part of your life is giving back and it's something that you\n\n974\n00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:43.880\ndo with your\n\n975\n00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:45.480\nfamily.\n\n976\n00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:51.850\nTalk about the impact when it becomes a family initiative and not just a\n\n977\n00:44:51.850 --> 00:44:54.560\npersonal solo initiative.\n\n978\n00:44:54.560 --> 00:44:59.320\nTim, I've been very blessed in my life and achieved more success and I ever\n\n979\n00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:00.000\nthought I\n\n980\n00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.720\nwould, made more money than I ever thought I would.\n\n981\n00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:09.000\nI think for me not to find a way to give back, it would be very selfish.\n\n982\n00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:15.310\nAnd I was blessed to have an incredible partner in Wendy who passed in February\n\n983\n00:45:15.310 --> 00:45:15.640\n.\n\n984\n00:45:15.640 --> 00:45:20.640\nAnd I have a daughter, Ashley who's very caring and we all wanted to give back.\n\n985\n00:45:20.640 --> 00:45:24.020\nSo we created the Lifthalife Foundation where we're trying to help people\n\n986\n00:45:24.020 --> 00:45:24.760\nachieve their\n\n987\n00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:28.080\npotential that they otherwise wouldn't achieve without our help.\n\n988\n00:45:28.080 --> 00:45:33.380\nSo we've honed in on some major focus areas, leadership development, being the\n\n989\n00:45:33.380 --> 00:45:33.960\none that\n\n990\n00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:37.840\nI basically take the lead in with David Novak leadership.\n\n991\n00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:43.530\nThe Wendy Novak Diabetes Institute and Diabetes is something that my daughter\n\n992\n00:45:43.530 --> 00:45:44.960\nand Wendy really,\n\n993\n00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:46.080\nreally led.\n\n994\n00:45:46.080 --> 00:45:51.960\nWe're passionate about early childhood education and Ashley is all over that.\n\n995\n00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.480\nVeteran support is really key.\n\n996\n00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.160\nSo we've been a big proponent of supporting the folds of honor, but it's a\n\n997\n00:45:59.160 --> 00:46:01.200\nfamily affair.\n\n998\n00:46:01.200 --> 00:46:06.590\nAnd I love the fact that my daughter, Ashley's our executive director and she\n\n999\n00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:07.440\nbasically\n\n1000\n00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.880\nruns it and it's based right out a little here.\n\n1001\n00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:16.490\nAnd I never have anybody call me for anything in Louisville because they know\n\n1002\n00:46:16.490 --> 00:46:17.880\nthat the person\n\n1003\n00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:21.280\nthat's going to get it done is Ashley Butler.\n\n1004\n00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.450\nAnd she's right now, she's doing so many things and she's working with the\n\n1005\n00:46:25.450 --> 00:46:26.320\nmayor here in Louisville\n\n1006\n00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:32.640\nwith a three by five initiative that she's chairing on early childhood.\n\n1007\n00:46:32.640 --> 00:46:36.310\nAnd the other thing that we're really focused on is family is feeding the\n\n1008\n00:46:36.310 --> 00:46:36.560\nhungry.\n\n1009\n00:46:36.560 --> 00:46:39.770\nAnd so we've done a lot of things in Louisville and with the World Food Program\n\n1010\n00:46:39.770 --> 00:46:40.400\nto really make\n\n1011\n00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:42.720\nsure people go to bed tonight with a good meal.\n\n1012\n00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:48.680\nAnd all these things are exciting to us because being able to make a difference\n\n1013\n00:46:48.680 --> 00:46:49.120\nmeans a lot\n\n1014\n00:46:49.120 --> 00:46:50.120\nto us.\n\n1015\n00:46:50.120 --> 00:46:53.650\nAnd if somebody come up to you and say, \"Hey, my child just went to the Winding\n\n1016\n00:46:53.650 --> 00:46:54.560\n-O-Vac Diabetes\n\n1017\n00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:57.880\nInstitute and they saved her life.\"\n\n1018\n00:46:57.880 --> 00:46:59.680\nThat means something.\n\n1019\n00:46:59.680 --> 00:47:02.850\nWhen you get a letter from somebody who says, \"Thank you very much for helping\n\n1020\n00:47:02.850 --> 00:47:03.240\nme put my\n\n1021\n00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:07.820\nkid through college and give him the fact that my husband lost his life in the\n\n1022\n00:47:07.820 --> 00:47:08.400\nMarines\n\n1023\n00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:09.400\nor whatever.\"\n\n1024\n00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:12.820\nI mean, these are the things that you just can't really quantify how much it\n\n1025\n00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:14.280\nreally means,\n\n1026\n00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.360\nnot just to me, but to our entire family.\n\n1027\n00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.000\nI've just been so interested to talk to you about, you just talked about your\n\n1028\n00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:22.680\ndaughter,\n\n1029\n00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:23.680\nAshley.\n\n1030\n00:47:23.680 --> 00:47:25.480\nShe runs the Family Foundation.\n\n1031\n00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:27.720\nYou two have a very special relationship.\n\n1032\n00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:32.040\nAnd I think it's the kind of relationship that any parent would envy.\n\n1033\n00:47:32.040 --> 00:47:35.000\nThey would love to have this kind of relationship with their kid.\n\n1034\n00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:41.280\nBut also know here you had such a huge job in running a giant company.\n\n1035\n00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:42.400\nHow did you do that?\n\n1036\n00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:47.610\nI mean, how did you really maintain that relationship without letting work\n\n1037\n00:47:47.610 --> 00:47:49.200\nreally drive a wedge\n\n1038\n00:47:49.200 --> 00:47:50.440\nin your relationship?\n\n1039\n00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:56.960\nWell, I think we've loved each other the minute we looked at each other.\n\n1040\n00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:04.080\nShe is a very special person and she knows that I love her with all my heart\n\n1041\n00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:05.120\nand I know\n\n1042\n00:48:05.120 --> 00:48:09.560\nthat she loves me with every fiber of her body.\n\n1043\n00:48:09.560 --> 00:48:15.100\nAnd coming when she was growing up, I couldn't be at everything, but my wife\n\n1044\n00:48:15.100 --> 00:48:15.520\nwas.\n\n1045\n00:48:15.520 --> 00:48:19.480\nAnd I would plan all the important events and I made sure I was there.\n\n1046\n00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:23.040\nI've always been there for her and she knows it.\n\n1047\n00:48:23.040 --> 00:48:24.360\nAnd vice versa.\n\n1048\n00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:29.100\nJust a good example of Ashley is I recently purchased along with a few other\n\n1049\n00:48:29.100 --> 00:48:30.120\nguys, Valhalla\n\n1050\n00:48:30.120 --> 00:48:31.240\nGolf Club.\n\n1051\n00:48:31.240 --> 00:48:34.840\nAnd we just had the PGA Championship there.\n\n1052\n00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.400\nAnd she said, \"Dad, you've got to do this.\"\n\n1053\n00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.280\nAnd I said, \"I don't know about owning the golf course.\"\n\n1054\n00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:44.000\nAnd she goes, \"Dad, it's your joy.\n\n1055\n00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:45.000\nIt's your joy.\n\n1056\n00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.000\nYou've got to do this.\"\n\n1057\n00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:51.180\nAnd besides, you've been complaining about what Valhalla can be for the last 15\n\n1058\n00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:51.840\nyears.\n\n1059\n00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:53.920\nYou've got to take this on.\n\n1060\n00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:54.920\nAnd you know what?\n\n1061\n00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:56.160\nShe convinced me to do it.\n\n1062\n00:48:56.160 --> 00:48:58.200\nAnd it has been an incredible joy.\n\n1063\n00:48:58.200 --> 00:49:00.800\nAnd we've turned this thing into a unique golf experience.\n\n1064\n00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:02.400\nYou can only find in Kentucky.\n\n1065\n00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:07.120\nShe did the interior of the clubhouse that we redesigned.\n\n1066\n00:49:07.120 --> 00:49:08.840\nBut it's just been so much fun.\n\n1067\n00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:11.720\nBut she knows me and she's there for me.\n\n1068\n00:49:11.720 --> 00:49:16.800\nAnd somebody asked me, \"What was the highlight of the PGA Championship?\"\n\n1069\n00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.440\nAnd because we're down there at the trophy presentation and all that.\n\n1070\n00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:20.600\nAnd I'll tell you what the highlight was.\n\n1071\n00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:25.120\nI looked back up and I saw Ashley Bummer taking a picture.\n\n1072\n00:49:25.120 --> 00:49:27.760\nBecause she just was so proud.\n\n1073\n00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:29.240\nAnd she's just there for me.\n\n1074\n00:49:29.240 --> 00:49:34.450\nAnd when my wife passed, she just goes out of her way to just be with me and\n\n1075\n00:49:34.450 --> 00:49:35.160\ngive me\n\n1076\n00:49:35.160 --> 00:49:36.160\nthat call.\n\n1077\n00:49:36.160 --> 00:49:39.840\nAnd I'm just over the moon about my daughter, which is great.\n\n1078\n00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:43.280\nI think it comes from, \"How do you do what we've done?\n\n1079\n00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:44.640\nYou just love each other.\"\n\n1080\n00:49:44.640 --> 00:49:46.840\nWell, David, this has been a lot of fun.\n\n1081\n00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:48.120\nWe're going to keep it rolling.\n\n1082\n00:49:48.120 --> 00:49:49.120\nWe got a lightning round.\n\n1083\n00:49:49.120 --> 00:49:50.760\nYou know what's coming.\n\n1084\n00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.480\nYou're ready for this.\n\n1085\n00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.880\nWhat three words best describe you?\n\n1086\n00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:59.680\nCompetitive, fun, caring.\n\n1087\n00:49:59.680 --> 00:50:02.080\nYou could be one person for a day beside yourself.\n\n1088\n00:50:02.080 --> 00:50:03.080\nWho would it be?\n\n1089\n00:50:03.080 --> 00:50:04.960\nPresident of the United States.\n\n1090\n00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.760\nYour biggest pet peeve.\n\n1091\n00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:09.160\nPeople who are disrespectful of other people.\n\n1092\n00:50:09.160 --> 00:50:11.200\nWho would play you in a movie?\n\n1093\n00:50:11.200 --> 00:50:12.200\nHarrison Ford.\n\n1094\n00:50:12.200 --> 00:50:13.200\nAll right.\n\n1095\n00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:16.160\nThis is what we asked to a lot of the golfers.\n\n1096\n00:50:16.160 --> 00:50:17.160\nAnd I love this one.\n\n1097\n00:50:17.160 --> 00:50:18.160\nAll right.\n\n1098\n00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:19.840\nSo it's the final round of a big tournament.\n\n1099\n00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:21.960\nYou're on the 18th hole par four.\n\n1100\n00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:23.800\nYou need a brewery to win.\n\n1101\n00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.080\nBut somebody else has to hit the shots for you.\n\n1102\n00:50:26.080 --> 00:50:27.960\nWho's hitting the drive?\n\n1103\n00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:28.960\nRoy McElroy.\n\n1104\n00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:31.360\nWho's hitting the approach shot?\n\n1105\n00:50:31.360 --> 00:50:32.360\nColin Markout.\n\n1106\n00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:33.360\nWho's putting?\n\n1107\n00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:34.360\nCameron Smith.\n\n1108\n00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:35.360\nAll right.\n\n1109\n00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:36.920\nA little trivia for you.\n\n1110\n00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:42.240\nWho won the 2022 club championship at Shinnekok Hills Golf Club in New York?\n\n1111\n00:50:42.240 --> 00:50:43.240\nNo comment.\n\n1112\n00:50:43.240 --> 00:50:44.240\nAll right.\n\n1113\n00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:49.480\nThen I'll answer David Novak is the answer.\n\n1114\n00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:50.480\nYou did it.\n\n1115\n00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:51.480\nAll right.\n\n1116\n00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:53.480\nYour favorite hole at Valhalla.\n\n1117\n00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:54.480\n13.\n\n1118\n00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:59.080\nSomething you'd only know about trailer park life.\n\n1119\n00:50:59.080 --> 00:51:01.080\nIf you've lived in one.\n\n1120\n00:51:01.080 --> 00:51:03.720\nThere's no such thing as trailer trash.\n\n1121\n00:51:03.720 --> 00:51:05.440\nOoh, that's good.\n\n1122\n00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.560\nA fun fact about Dodge City Kansas.\n\n1123\n00:51:08.560 --> 00:51:15.450\nWyatt Earp was not only the sheriff there, but my best friend in college, his\n\n1124\n00:51:15.450 --> 00:51:16.440\nfamily owned\n\n1125\n00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:20.240\nEarp Me Company in Kansas City.\n\n1126\n00:51:20.240 --> 00:51:25.200\nIf I'd turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1127\n00:51:25.200 --> 00:51:27.360\nHighway country.\n\n1128\n00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.960\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n1129\n00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.200\nDid I like to write country music?\n\n1130\n00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:33.200\nYes.\n\n1131\n00:51:33.200 --> 00:51:35.520\nI'm so happy you're talking about this.\n\n1132\n00:51:35.520 --> 00:51:36.960\nAll right.\n\n1133\n00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:40.000\nMost people do not know that you are a songwriter.\n\n1134\n00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.560\nSo talk to me about how you got into all that.\n\n1135\n00:51:43.560 --> 00:51:47.720\nWell, I've always loved writing and lyrics and country.\n\n1136\n00:51:47.720 --> 00:51:51.280\nSo what happened for my 48th wedding anniversary?\n\n1137\n00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.000\nI wanted to write my wife, Wendy, a country song.\n\n1138\n00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:01.500\nSo I went to Nashville and I worked with two great songwriters, Jesse Alexander\n\n1139\n00:52:01.500 --> 00:52:02.080\nand John\n\n1140\n00:52:02.080 --> 00:52:06.640\nRandall, both of them written a number of top hits.\n\n1141\n00:52:06.640 --> 00:52:11.050\nBut I came in with my lyrics and I had an unbelievable amount of good ideas for\n\n1142\n00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:11.360\nthis\n\n1143\n00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.360\nsong because it's all rooted in reality.\n\n1144\n00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:18.800\nIt's all rooted in the life that Wendy and I had together.\n\n1145\n00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:19.800\nSo I worked with them.\n\n1146\n00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.390\nI'm not the guitar or the person who could put the melody together or whatever,\n\n1147\n00:52:23.390 --> 00:52:23.840\nbut I\n\n1148\n00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:28.690\ndid have a lot of the lyrics and we collaborated and we wrote this song called\n\n1149\n00:52:28.690 --> 00:52:29.880\n\"I Got Wendy.\"\n\n1150\n00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:34.090\nAnd I had a blast doing it and then I gave it to Wendy for basically our 48th\n\n1151\n00:52:34.090 --> 00:52:34.640\nwedding\n\n1152\n00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:38.360\nanniversary and we'd sing it to each other all the time.\n\n1153\n00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:42.060\nIt was a special thing, but I had so much fun doing it and I decided to start\n\n1154\n00:52:42.060 --> 00:52:42.240\nwriting\n\n1155\n00:52:42.240 --> 00:52:44.720\nsome more songs because I had some more ideas.\n\n1156\n00:52:44.720 --> 00:52:49.350\nSo I wrote one about my mother and then I wrote one about the Star Spangled\n\n1157\n00:52:49.350 --> 00:52:50.320\nBanner and\n\n1158\n00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:56.710\nthen I wrote another one about nothing wrong with drinking something wrong with\n\n1159\n00:52:56.710 --> 00:52:57.240\nme.\n\n1160\n00:52:57.240 --> 00:52:59.840\nYou know, KFC in country.\n\n1161\n00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:03.800\nI wrote a bunch of different songs and had a lot of fun doing it, did them with\n\n1162\n00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:04.200\nSteve\n\n1163\n00:53:04.200 --> 00:53:08.880\nMokler and Nashville and I've got some more than I'm ready to try to do.\n\n1164\n00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:12.820\nI love them a lot more than probably everybody else does, but it's a lot of fun\n\n1165\n00:53:12.820 --> 00:53:13.080\n.\n\n1166\n00:53:13.080 --> 00:53:15.360\nRecently I spent some time with Eric Church.\n\n1167\n00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:19.530\nI did a podcast with him and I learned about how he thinks about music and so I\n\n1168\n00:53:19.530 --> 00:53:20.160\n'm always\n\n1169\n00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:22.240\nlearning about it and always listening.\n\n1170\n00:53:22.240 --> 00:53:23.440\nYou hear country music.\n\n1171\n00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:24.440\nYou hear country songs.\n\n1172\n00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:25.440\nIt's just listening to people.\n\n1173\n00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:26.440\nThat's good.\n\n1174\n00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:28.400\nHey, I'm calling it right now.\n\n1175\n00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.960\nWe're going to get a David Novak song on the radio.\n\n1176\n00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:31.960\nIt's happening.\n\n1177\n00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:32.960\nIt's going to happen.\n\n1178\n00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:38.080\nWell, it would be a David Novak Steve Mokler song.\n\n1179\n00:53:38.080 --> 00:53:40.320\nWhat do you see as your unfinished business?\n\n1180\n00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:43.680\nI have two things I really want to get done in my life.\n\n1181\n00:53:43.680 --> 00:53:46.920\nOne is make the world a better place by developing better leaders.\n\n1182\n00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:47.920\nStarted this quest.\n\n1183\n00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:49.720\nIt's a big mission that I have.\n\n1184\n00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:51.120\nIt's why I wrote the book.\n\n1185\n00:53:51.120 --> 00:53:52.760\nIt's why I do podcasts.\n\n1186\n00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.240\nIt's why I work with you and other people.\n\n1187\n00:53:55.240 --> 00:53:57.000\nWe're trying to make a difference.\n\n1188\n00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:01.080\nThe other thing is I had a meeting today.\n\n1189\n00:54:01.080 --> 00:54:04.660\nDiabetes is a terrible disease and I want to take the Winding Novak Diabetes\n\n1190\n00:54:04.660 --> 00:54:05.280\nInstitute\n\n1191\n00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.360\nand just absolutely be the best in the world.\n\n1192\n00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:13.010\nIt helped them play sports as a diabetic and helping people have babies as a\n\n1193\n00:54:13.010 --> 00:54:14.080\ndiabetic and\n\n1194\n00:54:14.080 --> 00:54:21.530\nhelping people identify at-risk diabetics and do the things that might curtail\n\n1195\n00:54:21.530 --> 00:54:22.000\nit.\n\n1196\n00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:23.000\nWe've got a lot of great things.\n\n1197\n00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:26.760\nWe've got a lot of research being done there.\n\n1198\n00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:29.120\nThose are the two things that I want to make happen.\n\n1199\n00:54:29.120 --> 00:54:32.610\nI want to be the best at leadership development in the world, developing\n\n1200\n00:54:32.610 --> 00:54:34.840\nleaders at every level.\n\n1201\n00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:40.000\nI want to help create the best diabetes institute with Windy's name behind it.\n\n1202\n00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:41.800\nAll of that.\n\n1203\n00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:42.800\nLast question here.\n\n1204\n00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:48.610\nWhat's one piece of advice you give to somebody who wants to be a better leader\n\n1205\n00:54:48.610 --> 00:54:48.680\n?\n\n1206\n00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:51.600\nYou have to take people with you.\n\n1207\n00:54:51.600 --> 00:54:53.960\nIt's the only way you can make big things happen.\n\n1208\n00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:58.070\nDavid, we've been waiting for this full episode for a long time and I finally\n\n1209\n00:54:58.070 --> 00:54:58.720\ntalked to you\n\n1210\n00:54:58.720 --> 00:54:59.720\ninto it.\n\n1211\n00:54:59.720 --> 00:55:04.050\nYou have so many incredible leadership insights I'm learning from you every\n\n1212\n00:55:04.050 --> 00:55:04.960\nsingle day.\n\n1213\n00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.640\nYou really show me what good leadership looks like.\n\n1214\n00:55:07.640 --> 00:55:12.310\nThat whole idea of moving from me to we, taking people with you, giving great\n\n1215\n00:55:12.310 --> 00:55:12.600\nfeedback.\n\n1216\n00:55:12.600 --> 00:55:15.900\nAll the things that we've talked about so far in this conversation, I just want\n\n1217\n00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:16.120\nmore\n\n1218\n00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:21.120\npeople to hear and learn from and apply to their lives.\n\n1219\n00:55:21.120 --> 00:55:22.120\nAppreciate you doing this.\n\n1220\n00:55:22.120 --> 00:55:23.120\nWell, thank you, Tim.\n\n1221\n00:55:23.120 --> 00:55:24.120\nI appreciate it.\n\n1222\n00:55:24.120 --> 00:55:26.680\nI do these podcasts myself.\n\n1223\n00:55:26.680 --> 00:55:30.130\nI can tell you, I think I might have been a little bit too long winded, but\n\n1224\n00:55:30.130 --> 00:55:30.720\nhopefully\n\n1225\n00:55:30.720 --> 00:55:45.960\nyou'll edit it properly.\n\n1226\n00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.870\nSure was fun to turn the tables on David and get him to share his insights and\n\n1227\n00:55:49.870 --> 00:55:50.400\nstories\n\n1228\n00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:51.600\nwith us today.\n\n1229\n00:55:51.600 --> 00:55:56.890\nI can tell you, David always has his antenna up looking for great ideas, but it\n\n1230\n00:55:56.890 --> 00:55:57.520\n's not just\n\n1231\n00:55:57.520 --> 00:55:58.920\nobservation.\n\n1232\n00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:04.150\nHe pairs it with reflection to see how he can adapt those ideas and then with\n\n1233\n00:56:04.150 --> 00:56:04.760\naction\n\n1234\n00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:07.600\nso those ideas become reality.\n\n1235\n00:56:07.600 --> 00:56:10.760\nThat is what it means to be an active learner.\n\n1236\n00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:13.960\nIf you listen to this podcast, you know that David has been using this\n\n1237\n00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:14.880\nprinciple of active\n\n1238\n00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.160\nlearning here at the end of every episode.\n\n1239\n00:56:18.160 --> 00:56:22.880\nHe gives you a simple action that you can take to apply the big idea from the\n\n1240\n00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.120\nconversation.\n\n1241\n00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:27.600\nAnd this week is no different, but it's an easy one.\n\n1242\n00:56:27.600 --> 00:56:29.240\nHere's what I want you to do.\n\n1243\n00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:33.800\nGo get yourself a copy of David's book, How Leaders Learn.\n\n1244\n00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:38.250\nRead the very first chapter and start discovering how to make this idea of\n\n1245\n00:56:38.250 --> 00:56:39.680\nactive learning your\n\n1246\n00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:41.200\nsuperpower.\n\n1247\n00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:43.520\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1248\n00:56:43.520 --> 00:56:48.280\nWhat we learn today is that great leaders are active learners.\n\n1249\n00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:52.720\nComing up next on how leaders lead a Steve Dunkert, the former chairman of Nair\n\n1250\n00:56:52.720 --> 00:56:53.480\na, that's\n\n1251\n00:56:53.480 --> 00:56:58.010\nthe New York Racing Association, which operates the three largest thoroughbred\n\n1252\n00:56:58.010 --> 00:56:58.800\nhorse racing\n\n1253\n00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.160\ntracks in the state of New York.\n\n1254\n00:57:01.160 --> 00:57:03.800\nYou can't have just one playbook to be a leader.\n\n1255\n00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:08.860\nYou have to be able to be adaptive to what your surroundings are and to who you\n\n1256\n00:57:08.860 --> 00:57:10.040\n're leading.\n\n1257\n00:57:10.040 --> 00:57:14.960\nSo be sure to come back again next week to hear David's interview with Steve.\n\n1258\n00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:19.080\nThanks again for tuning into another episode of How Leaders Lead where every\n\n1259\n00:57:19.080 --> 00:57:19.880\nThursday you\n\n1260\n00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:23.860\nget to listen in while David interviews some of the very best leaders in the\n\n1261\n00:57:23.860 --> 00:57:24.440\nworld.\n\n1262\n00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:28.440\nWe make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1263\n00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:29.160\napply to your\n\n1264\n00:57:29.160 --> 00:57:32.800\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1265\n00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:49.080\nAnd now here is that surprise that I promised you.\n\n1266\n00:57:49.080 --> 00:57:53.370\nSo as you heard David talk about in the interview, he's been honing his craft\n\n1267\n00:57:53.370 --> 00:57:54.600\nas a country music\n\n1268\n00:57:54.600 --> 00:57:55.880\nsongwriter.\n\n1269\n00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:59.230\nAnd the song that he mentioned that he wrote for his wife Wendy for their 48th\n\n1270\n00:57:59.230 --> 00:57:59.600\nwedding\n\n1271\n00:57:59.600 --> 00:58:05.620\nanniversary, well, we had it recorded in the studio and we are going to play it\n\n1272\n00:58:05.620 --> 00:58:06.160\nfor you\n\n1273\n00:58:06.160 --> 00:58:07.160\ntoday.\n\n1274\n00:58:07.160 --> 00:58:12.560\nSo without further ado, from David Novak performed by Drew Holcomb in the\n\n1275\n00:58:12.560 --> 00:58:14.600\nneighbors, here is\n\n1276\n00:58:14.600 --> 00:58:15.440\nI Got Wendy.\n\n1277\n00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:16.440\nThank you.\n\n1278\n00:58:16.440 --> 00:58:18.440\nfor watching.\n\n1279\n00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:20.440\nfor watching.\n\n1280\n00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:22.440\nfor watching.\n\n1281\n00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:24.440\nfor watching.\n\n1282\n00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:26.440\nfor watching.\n\n1283\n00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:28.440\nfor watching.\n\n1284\n00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:30.440\nfor watching.\n\n1285\n00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:32.440\nfor watching.\n\n1286\n00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:34.440\nfor watching.\n\n1287\n00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:36.440\nfor watching.\n\n1288\n00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:38.440\nfor watching.\n\n1289\n00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.440\nfor watching.\n\n1290\n00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:42.440\nfor watching.\n\n1291\n00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:44.440\nfor watching.\n\n1292\n00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.440\nfor watching.\n\n1293\n00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:48.440\nfor watching.\n\n1294\n00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.440\nfor watching.\n\n1295\n00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.440\nfor watching.\n\n1296\n00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:54.440\nfor watching.\n\n1297\n00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:56.440\nfor watching.\n\n1298\n00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:58.440\nfor watching.\n\n1299\n00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:00.440\nfor watching.\n\n1300\n00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:02.440\nfor watching.\n\n1301\n00:59:02.440 --> 00:59:04.440\nfor watching.\n\n1302\n00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.440\nfor watching.\n\n1303\n00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:08.440\nfor watching.\n\n1304\n00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:10.440\nfor watching.\n\n1305\n00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:12.440\nfor watching.\n\n1306\n00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:14.440\nfor watching.\n\n1307\n00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:16.440\nfor watching.\n\n1308\n00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:18.440\nfor watching.\n\n1309\n00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.440\nfor watching.\n\n1310\n00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:22.440\nfor watching.\n\n1311\n00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.440\nfor watching.\n\n1312\n00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:26.440\nfor watching.\n\n1313\n00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:28.440\nfor watching.\n\n1314\n00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.440\nfor watching.\n\n1315\n00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.440\nfor watching.\n\n1316\n00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:34.440\nfor watching.\n\n1317\n00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:36.440\nfor watching.\n\n1318\n00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:38.440\nfor watching.\n\n1319\n00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:40.440\nfor watching.\n\n1320\n00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:42.440\nfor watching.\n\n1321\n00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:44.440\nfor watching.\n\n1322\n00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:46.440\nfor watching.\n\n1323\n00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:48.440\nfor watching.\n\n1324\n00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:50.440\nfor watching.\n\n1325\n00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:52.440\nfor watching.\n\n1326\n00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:54.440\nfor watching.\n\n1327\n00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:56.440\nfor watching.\n\n1328\n00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:58.440\nfor watching.\n\n1329\n00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.440\nfor watching.\n\n1330\n01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:02.440\nfor watching.\n\n1331\n01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:04.440\nfor watching.\n\n1332\n01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.440\nfor watching.\n\n1333\n01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:08.440\nfor watching.\n\n1334\n01:00:08.440 --> 01:00:10.440\nfor watching.\n\n1335\n01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:12.440\nfor watching.\n\n1336\n01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:14.440\nfor watching.\n\n1337\n01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:16.440\nfor watching.\n\n1338\n01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:18.440\nfor watching.\n\n1339\n01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:20.440\nfor watching.\n\n1340\n01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:22.440\nfor watching.\n\n1341\n01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.440\nfor watching.\n\n1342\n01:00:24.440 --> 01:00:26.440\nfor watching.\n\n1343\n01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.440\nfor watching.\n\n1344\n01:00:28.440 --> 01:00:30.440\nfor watching.\n\n1345\n01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:32.440\nfor watching.\n\n1346\n01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:34.440\nfor watching.\n\n1347\n01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:36.440\nfor watching.\n\n1348\n01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:38.440\nfor watching.\n\n1349\n01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:40.440\nfor watching.\n\n1350\n01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:42.440\nfor watching.\n\n1351\n01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:44.440\nfor watching.\n\n1352\n01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:46.440\nfor watching.\n\n1353\n01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:48.440\nfor watching.\n\n1354\n01:00:48.440 --> 01:00:50.440\nfor watching.\n\n1355\n01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:52.440\nfor watching.\n\n1356\n01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:54.440\nfor watching.\n\n1357\n01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:56.440\nfor watching.\n\n1358\n01:00:56.440 --> 01:00:58.440\nfor watching.\n\n1359\n01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.440\nfor watching.\n\n1360\n01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:02.440\nfor watching.\n\n1361\n01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:04.440\nfor watching.\n\n1362\n01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:06.440\nfor watching.\n\n1363\n01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.440\nfor watching.\n\n1364\n01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:10.440\nfor watching.\n\n1365\n01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:12.440\nfor watching.\n\n1366\n01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:14.440\nfor watching.\n\n1367\n01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.440\nfor watching.\n\n1368\n01:01:16.440 --> 01:01:18.440\nfor watching.\n\n1369\n01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:20.440\nfor watching.\n\n1370\n01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:22.440\nfor watching.\n\n1371\n01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.440\nfor watching.\n\n1372\n01:01:24.440 --> 01:01:45.440\n[ Silence ]","

Tim Schurrer 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead. My name is Tim Schmoyer. And I'm the CEO of David Novak leadership. And there's a good reason you're hearing my voice today instead of David's. And that's because our guest today isn't a guest at all. It's David himself. He says every week that this podcast is your chance to listen to interviews with the very best leaders in the world. And while he's too humble to say that about himself, you and I both know that David is absolutely in that category, I finally convinced him to sit down and let me interview him. Because believe me, he's got so many leadership lessons to share. If you listen to this podcast, you probably already know that David was the co founder and CEO of yum brands. That's the parent company of KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut. Under his leadership, the market cap grew from 4 billion to $32 billion. And a big part of that success came from David's focus on the power of recognition in the intentional way, he built a people first culture. But there's more to that, as you'll hear today, he's an insatiable learner. And not only that he applies what he learns in order to drive results. This idea of being an active learner is his superpower. And it's also the topic of his new book, how leaders learn, I cannot wait for you to read it. It comes out this Tuesday, June 4, and it's going to help you develop that learning superpower for yourself. And this conversation will too because David goes into detail about how he learns and applies those lessons. And if all that's not enough, I've also got a special surprise for you at the end of the episode. I will not spoil it completely. But let's just say it involves David's latest and greatest hobby of country music songwriting, and you do not want to miss it. So here's my conversation with my good friend and you know, yours too, David Novak.

So, David, you are famous for creating a recognition culture while at yum. Was there a particular moment where you knew that this was going to be the approach that you'd adopt as a leader? Well,

David Novak 2:25

Tim, it all stem from my Chief Operating role. When I was at Pepsi Cola company, one of the things I always did was I would go out and visit the bottling plants in the morning, get there around six o'clock by everybody coffee and doughnuts and just sit around the table and ask people what was working, what wasn't working. And I'm in St. Louis, Missouri, and I'm with a group of Route salesmen. Now the route salesmen most important people in Pepsi, they go into this stores and they, they get all the display space, and they work with the customers and put up the PIO P and all this is a really key job. So I'm trying to understand what's going on in the world of merchandising. And so I asked this group of about 10, people were sitting around a round table, and I say, you know, tell me about merchandising, and they all started raving about this guy named Bob. And Bob is sitting directly across from me and, and one guy says, Oh, Bob taught me more and you know, four hours, and I learned my first three years here, and another guy says, oh, you should see Bob with customers. He's amazing. This guy is so good with customers, man. Oh, he goes in there, he gets a facings just perfect. I mean, his stores look so good. He's just the best at it. And I look across the table. And I see Bob, and he's crying. And I go, Bob, why are you crying? These people are heaping all this praise on you. And he said, Well, I've been in this company for 47 years. I'm retiring in two weeks. And I didn't know people felt this way about me. And when I heard that, it was like a punch in the gut. I said, Oh my gosh, this guy is so good at what he does. And he's never felt appreciated. And I said to myself, I'm going to make recognition, the single most important behavior that I tried to drive in any company that ever work in again, I don't want to have people like Bob feel the way Bob was feeling. I'm going to try to lift people up and let people know how much I value them and how much the organization value. I'm going to make recognition, the number one behavior. And that was basically the story that I think catapulted my career. Because from that point on, I really focused on culture, which I think is the most important thing you can do in any company. And the number one behavior that that I drove was recognizing people and having a lot of fun doing it.

Tim Schurrer 4:49

I've heard you talk about this idea that leaders cast a shadow. Give me an example of some of the things that you would do to recognize people to really let go People know that this is what you wanted them to do as well.

David Novak 5:03

I really do believe that casting a shadow is what every leader does, whether they know it or not, you know, because people basically do what the leader does. So I wanted the role model of fact that I felt recognition was so important. So I was looking for a very powerful recognition tool. And I wanted to have a really fun way to do recognition. And I found out when I was president of KFC that the head of it had this monthly meeting. And every month, he'd give away this rubber floppy chicken. And I just loved that. And I went to him, I said, you know, I really love this recognition award. I'm really looking for something as the president KFC, I'm wondering if you would let me take your award. And, of course, he gave me the right answer. He said, Sure, David. But I really appreciated that. And so I started using this floppy chicken to recognize people when I saw great behaviors. So I'd walk into a KFC for example. And I would see this great original recipe Cook, and the food was fantastic. And so I'd go back to my car and bring in a rubber chicken and say, Boy, this original recipes, the best chicken I've ever tasted, you know, qualities, what we do appreciate you so much. And I write all this down on this floppy chicken, and I'd number it, and then I'd say okay, you know, Allah, I'm gonna give you this floppy chicken. But I want to take a picture with you. And I'm going to send you a copy the picture back to you. But the most important thing is you can throw it in the trash if you want, I don't care, but I'm gonna put your picture in my office, because you're what makes our business tick, I would take the picture. And we'd have fun with that. And then I give them $100 Because you couldn't eat a rubber chicken. And I'm telling you what this took off, you couldn't believe because people saw how much people love that when I recognized other people. And they said, you know, it, David Novak's doing this and getting success doing it, I'm gonna do it too. And it took off. And one of the things I'm most proud of is all our leaders across yum brands had their own recognition award from giving away many basketballs to fasten your seat belt awards to you know, shovels, if you were in construction, and people had fun, and you personalize it, but I think it's very important that you give a piece of yourself away when you recognize people, you, you do it from the heart, it's very genuine, it's well earned, you personalize it. That's why I would ride on, and you have fun doing it. And I did take all those pictures of the people I recognized I put them, you know, in my office, just like I said I would. And people love to come see the CEOs office and they'd come into my office. And they knew when they looked around the office that recognition and people's is what it's all about in our company and I ran out of space, Tim, literally, there are pictures from floor to ceiling and people. So what are you going to do when you run out of space in your office, I say I'm going to put them on the ceiling. And so actually, my my, my ceiling is covered with pictures as well. And then the recognition went out into the hallways and but it sends a big signal that this is what you really value.

Tim Schurrer 8:17

So you know, I get how passionate you were about all of this. But at the time, you have 1.5 million employees all over the world. And you can't do this alone. So what are some of the practical ways that you found you were able to really cascade this in the organization? How did you take people with you on that front?

David Novak 8:42

Well, I think you recognize on purpose. I always tell everybody, you know, ask yourself, what are the behaviors that you know are going to drive results in your company, and then make those your cultural behaviors. I don't really like the word value values a nice word. But you know, it sounds really amorphous. I like what what you actually do. And so we had, what we called our how we work together principles. And these were the behaviors that we wanted to have seen around the world. And so one of those behaviors was recognition. And we said, you know, we recognize each other and have fun doing it. Now, you mentioned casting a shadow earlier, I cast that shadow, I showed everybody the power of recognition, did a lot of it myself. And then I asked my team to come up with their own recognition awards, and they did it. And everybody saw the power of recognition. And then they asked their teams to come up with their own recognition awards. And then everybody asked their teams and we cascaded it all around the world. And, and I think the thing that I was most proud of, as a CEO of yum brands, is that, you know, we really created a recognition culture that was powerful all around the world. Old people felt valued. Of course, we weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But, you know, we worked our tail off to really value people and show people how much we cared and, and it was basically a behavior that we cascaded and train people on all around the world. And we did that, by the way, by having culture sessions, where we train people on the things that we thought would get us results recognition being one accountability, customer focus, teamwork, positive energy, we had training exercises around all these things, and recognition being one of them that we executed all around the world, you can't make something happen in in any company, without cascading it to the key levels in the organization and move up as close to the customers you can possibly get. And that's what we tried to do. Our restaurant managers had recognition awards, everybody knew this is what we valued. And it became a big part of our company.

Tim Schurrer 10:57

So some of what you've been talking about, could be perceived, as you know, like soft, fluffy stuff, but not really something that could make a real impact on the bottom line. But what's your take? I'm curious what you think about all that,

David Novak 11:12

I think it's the soft stuff that drives hard results. I think too many times people start out saying I want to make money, but they don't really think about how you get there. And it always starts with building people capabilities, showing people that you value them, showing people that you appreciate them, show them that you're going to train them, show them that what they do really matters, then guess what happens, they satisfy more customers, then you make money. And you know, that's the key thing. You know, if without that people capability without the talent, you'll never get the results that you really want. And now that doesn't mean you don't make the tough decisions. That doesn't mean that you don't spend time innovating on products. That doesn't mean that you don't you know, cut costs and all those kinds of things. You have to do those things to run the business. But you do that best when you you do it with people who are talented, and who have the the mindset to lead and get results the right way. And I think that's what we try to do.

Tim Schurrer 12:14

Shifting gears here. Is there a story from your early years that made a big impact on your leadership? Well,

David Novak 12:22

you know, I grew up, my dad was a government surveyor, and we moved every three months. And we lived in 23 states by the time I was in seventh grade, and my dad would basically hook up the government truck, to our trailer. And then he along with our surveying party, which would be, you know, 10 to 15 other families, we would move every three months after they did the survey in town, and I lived in all these little small towns. I'm the only person you know, Tim, that has lived in Dodge City, Kansas, not once, but twice again. But my mom would check me in schools, every time we moved. And sometimes I go to three schools a year. And she would say, David, you better make friends because we're leaving. And that was such a great advice. Because, you know, I knew that I had to make friends. And I always learned that you're one friend away from happiness. And I learned how to go into new environments, and kind of scope out the situation, see what kids I want, might want to hang with, see what kids I kind of wanted to avoid. And I think that really gave me very good people skills, and very good insights on people that I was able to carry into business. You know, I had a lot of times I'd have people come up and I'd make an observation on one of our leaders or somebody I met and they go How'd you know that? And well, I just kind of felt it, you know, and I wasn't always right on on every instinct, but my instincts were pretty damn good when it comes to assessing people. Well,

Tim Schurrer 14:01

something I know about you is you never got your MBA, but that really used to bother you. Why? Why did that bother you? Well,

David Novak 14:08

I came up in business where, you know, after I started out as an advertising copywriter, but then I had gotten the account management side on the agency business and everybody I worked with on the client side had MBAs. I had a bachelor in journalism degree from a good school, University of Missouri, but it wasn't an MBA, so I was pretty insecure about it. In fact, anytime people started talking about where they got their MBA, I usually went to the restroom, you know, and then I came back after that discussion, but I learned that over time, it's what you do. That really matters. The I think MBAs are great. And anybody that gets the NBA, I think it opens up doors for you. But once that door is open, it doesn't matter if you have an MBA or not it What matters is what kind of results you generate and what kind of leader you are. That's what really matters, and it took me a while They get secure in the fact that I didn't have that MBA, but I was able to get over? Well, I

Tim Schurrer 15:08

think it's pretty safe to say you've been fine without it.

David Novak 15:13

I tell you what I've had a lot of great MBAs make me look good, okay, and I need all the help that I can get.

Tim Schurrer 15:20

Okay, so before I met you, when I really started learning about your career, I heard all about the recognition culture, it was not surprising at all, that you all were successful in growing that business. But then I read your new book, how leaders learn, and realize that learning has been your superpower. And something that I also believe, has helped you be really successful. Talk more about that?

David Novak 15:46

Well, the best leaders that I've met are what I call active learners, they're constantly seeking knowledge. And then they pair that knowledge or whatever insight they get with action. That's something that I've done throughout my career, you know, and I think part of what really drove my learning mindset is, I was very, very competitive. I wanted to be the best at whatever I was. So if I had a job, I didn't want any of my peers to beat me, you know, I wanted to be the best at it. And I quickly learned the way I you get better at something is you learn everything you can about it. And you learn as much as you can from anybody that knows more than you or any book that you can read or any person that you know, might be in another industry that's doing something. And then you apply that learning, and do what I call pattern thinking. If somebody's doing this over here, how can I do it in a way that's right and true to who I am, and make myself better or make my business better. And I think that learning orientation that I had clearly helped me get a lot more done than I would have. If I would have just been insular and relied on my own know how I always say it really expanded your IQ points, I think I became a lot smarter, because I learned from everybody else than just relying on what I know.

Tim Schurrer 17:11

And what I love is how you still do that today. Even just this last week, you forwarded a newsletter from another podcast host. And you said let's do some pattern thinking on this. So I just love this desire that you have to look for insights everywhere. And even just something as simple as an email, you want to pull the learnings from that. I just think it's such a great perspective.

David Novak 17:36

Well, pattern thinking is something that I write about in the book, it's one of the chapters. And you know, the example I use that I love the most that I always refer to was when I was working on the Frito Lay account. We were looking for new product ideas. So I said to my team, I said, you know, we got to come up with some new product ideas for Doritos. Let's go to the grocery store. And I want to just walk around and look at every aisle and just see what's going on in the world of packaged goods and see if there's anything that we might be able to learn. And so we went and we walked all around, we came to the salad dressing aisle. And at the time, ranch flavored salad dressing was the most popular new flavor. It had more facings they had more point of purchase up and you know, so I came back with my team. I said what if we came up with a ranch flavored Doritos? And they said, Oh, that's a good idea. So I called up Dennis Hurd who's the head of r&d from Frito Lay and I said, Do you think we could make a ranch flavored Doritos? Yeah, I know we could. i It seems to be like the fastest growing flavor in the salad dressing category. Let's give it a go. So man, I will never forget when those came off the line in the lab. You know when the tape they were so good. And I said holy cow. This is a home run. Everybody loved it. And then we got to name this product out there we went did some pattern thinking because nacho cheese Doritos was the big flavor for Doritos. And we said well, what made that unique? Well, it's sort of a unique image to a known quantity. The known quantity was cheese and Nacho was the unique image. So okay, well the known quantity here is going to be ranch. What can we do to give a unique image and we came up with the idea of calm Cool Ranch Doritos Cool Ranch Doritos become a smashing hit. And I always tell people that that just came from pattern thinking. You look at something that's seemingly totally different. And then bring those two things together, you come up with something that that is unique and innovative. And I've done that throughout my career when I was a pizza, took the team to California Pizza Kitchen, because that was a really hot concept. And you know, they had all these individual pizzas and special toppings like you know, barbecue chicken toppings BLT toppings, you know, Thai chicken and all this stuff. And I came back and I said, you know, I know we don't have any of the He's toppings on our our make table at Pizza. But how could we do what California Pizza Kitchen has done? What if we just doubled the number of pepperonis and put them on the pizza and call them pepperoni lovers? Well, that was the most successful product at Pizza Hut since pan pizza. And then we said, Well, why don't we do the same thing with meat, and we created meat lovers we did with cheese, and we did cheese lovers. And then we did veggies and veggie lovers and we created especially a line of pizzas called the lovers line. And it's still the I think, one of the highest mixed line items in pizza. And it all came from just looking at what a competitor was doing in a way that you know, is right for them and said, Well, how can we do it? That's right for us. And guess what? record sales and it worked. But I think those kinds of ideas are out there if you're just a pattern thinker, but

Tim Schurrer 20:52

you have your intent for the learning. I think that's the big insight to is learning is your superpower, because you're always trying to learn, but like you said, apply that learning as well. You know, speaking of learning, I know that there's a lot that you can learn from your wins the Cool Ranch Doritos example. There's a lot to be learned there. But also know that sometimes it's failures that we learned some of our biggest lessons from, what would you say is one of your bigger learnings that you got from perhaps something that didn't go as planned?

David Novak 21:24

One of the things that I write about in the book is, you know, learning from your failures, and I love Scott Hamilton, the great figure skater, he said, failing is information. And he talks about how many times he fell down, but each time it providing some information that helps him get better. And I liked the way he he frames up at failure. And for me, one of my big failures would have been when I launched Crystal Pepsi when I was at Pepsi, and it was a great idea. It was a clear cola. But the problem was, I didn't listen to the objections and the obstacles that people had on Crystal Pepsi that our franchise bottlers, for example told me I needed to have more flavor notes like PepsiCo and I said, No, I don't want to have flavor notes like PepsiCo, I wanted to. I wanted to get in incremental users and all this I didn't listen to what they had to say. And early on in my career. I used to teach this learning principle called some people will say it can't be done every step of the way. What I realized over time was the first thing you got to ask yourself is, are they right? Is what they're questioning. Does that make sense? In the case of Crystal Pepsi? Our franchise bottlers been around for a long time this you're calling a Crystal Pepsi, it doesn't taste enough like Pepsi that's going to upset our customers, they might come in and they might buy it, but they're not going to try it again. I said you don't get it. And I just thought there just didn't get how brilliant I was. Okay. And you know, as it turned out, Pepsi sold a ton of Crystal Pepsi. But it was a classic boom, splat. We sold a ton in the first three months, but then the repeat was very low. And you know, what we learned was the reason why the repeat was so low, didn't taste enough like Pepsi. And the bottlers were right, but I didn't listen to him. The other thing about learning from failure is he also learned that if you don't get people involved, you'll never get their commitment. And so I was like a heat seeking missile with Crystal Pepsi, I was gonna launch that no matter what anybody thought. And I didn't get the franchise bottlers involved and ask them what they thought and really listen to what the potential obstacles could be. And so when we launched the product, there's not a whole lot of commitment to making it work. And that was the other thing, you know, they premium priced. And I said, Wow, we never premium price products, you know, we always make it low. So the people will try it, and they go, that's alright. You know, it's not going to be around that long, we might as well make some money on it. And they did. And they made a lot of money. That's probably why they didn't get fired, is because they did make a lot of money. But there was no real commitment. Because they didn't feel like they had been involved. And they didn't feel like they had been listened to. That was a big leadership lesson for me. No involvement, no commitment.

Tim Schurrer 24:20

How do you squeeze out the most learnings from a situation like that? Do you have a process where you're sitting down to reflect and do an after action? Are you just daydreaming? I mean, how do you do that to get the most value out of the learning?

David Novak 24:35

I always try to have a lot of self reflection and post analysis. And one of the things that I learned this from was by going to Walmart, they used to run the same promotion every year. But after the promotion, they had what they called a correction of errors process and where they would literally document what they could have done better. They'd run that same promotion the next year. by making the improvements that they knew would make it a better promotion, and they did that year after year after year versus just trying to reinvent the wheel all the time. You know, I learned the power of having sort of a correction of errors process, you know, a reflection process, a codification process, where you kind of diagnose you know, what made something work and what could have been better. And I think that's how you learn from successes and failures, you really need to take the time to say, Okay, we just did this, what worked, what didn't work, I think that really allows you to garner the learning that goes into your memory bank, that's going to help you get better and better as an individual leader, and also as a business. So

Tim Schurrer 25:47

I'm holding your book here, page 61. You talk about the failures. I love the chapter titled The worst way to get on SNL. And it's that whole Crystal Pepsi story. But I'm curious to know, why don't you hide from this story? It just feels like, I mean, you're writing it in a book, you're putting it out there. I've heard you share the story before, why don't you hide from your failures?

David Novak 26:12

Well, I used to teach his leadership program. And I taught it to 4000 people, yum, brands. And one of the things that I learned, is people often know, more times than not anyway, how you got, where you are, and why you've been successful, what are all the big wins that you've had in your life, they don't really know how you failed along the way. In the stories that they love the most, were me telling the times that I failed, the times, I could have done something better. They didn't know those. And they really appreciate the fact as a leader, that I would be honest enough and vulnerable enough to really talk about my screw ups. And it was one of the favorite parts of the program. By far. I mean, people love to hear that. And you know, I have a bunch of Crystal Pepsi, solar shades, that pizza hot, you know, I have a lot of failures, okay. But fortunately, I have more wins. In the end, you do have to win. But I think talking about those opportunities that I had to fail, and then learn from it. And what I learned and how it really drove my future actions is something that people really appreciated the most. Before

Tim Schurrer 27:26

you launch into any project. You're somebody who wants to go find the best practices from you know, other people who have done a similar thing. So take me back to the early days at yum. How'd you even decide what you wanted to stand for? And what kind of company you really wanted to create?

David Novak 27:46

Well, the one thing I wanted to do it Yum, brands more than anything, was we've just been spun off from PepsiCo. So we were just kind of seen as the ugly ducklings, we'd become this new company. But we had these three brands that Pepsi had not been able to grow. And there were a lot of questions about, you know, what kind of company we'd want to be and, or we could be and I felt we could be great. I had, I felt like we had three incredible brands, we had a great international opportunity. And I felt that we had the opportunity to really do something that could be outcome historic. And one of the things that I knew that was going to be critical to us was that we grow our stock price. And we had to figure out how to do that in the right way. And one thing about great companies is they don't get results, just one year they get results every year that's consistent. So I wanted to go out and really learn from the companies that had consistently great results. And back then that meant Walmart, Southwest Airlines, Home Depot, General Electric at that time was an absolute powerhouse, no pun intended. But you know, these were the great companies. And so we went out as a leadership team, we met with them. We wanted to understand what was it that they were doing that drove consistent results. And so we codified our key learnings. I came back with our team, and I said okay, we're going to build the yum dynasty. And these are going to be the yum dynasty drivers. What did we learn from these great companies. And we learned that the great companies create a culture where everyone counts. That was the most important thing. That was the thing they talked about the most. The great companies are maniacal about customers. They do everything they can to provide value and listen and respond to their customers. The great companies had competitive differentiation in everything that they do. You know, they would literally try to exaggerate what made them different in every way. And it wasn't just one aspect that essence it was every aspect of what their brand was so that they really stood for something. Then the great companies had continuity and people and processes process and discipline around what really matters. And the last thing add a continuous beat year ago mentality, that they're going to get better every single year at everything that they did. And we call them our young dynasty drivers. We literally built our company around those five things over my 17 years as a CEO, and we got consistent results, we had 13 straight years of at least 13%, EPS growth, you know, our stock went nuts. We had great success. I think it's because we very early on, learn from the great companies. And then we're active learners and started implementing the things that we knew that great companies did to get the consistent results.

Koula Callahan 30:56

Hey, everyone, its Kula from three more questions, I am so excited to announce that David's new book how leaders learn is now available. The book is all about helping you master the habit of active learning, which is the number one skill of the world's most successful leaders, how leaders learn, we'll help you become an active learner so that you too can experience the success you really want in your life and in your career. And if you forward your receipt to book at how leaders lead.com You'll get immediate access to exclusive bonus content forward your receipt to book at how leaders lead.com And I promise you're gonna love it

Tim Schurrer 31:40

talk about end Pearson and the impact that he had not only on the company, but just also on on you personally. Well,

David Novak 31:48

any person was the co founder of yum brands with me. Andy was my best friend when he was passed away. At eight years old. I spoke at his funeral. I loved him because he believed so much in me and cared so much about me and developed me so much. But the biggest thing Andy taught me was the power of being an avid learner. This guy read three or four books a month, read the newspaper every day, he had grandkids and he talked to him about JLo and a rod. I mean, he was the coolest guy, you know, he he introduced me to every great leader of the air, I met Jack Welch because of him. You know, Tom Murphy, just all these guys that were just John McGillicuddy. I mean, I could go on and on. He opened up Ken Langone Sidney Cole. He knew all these people. And he then introduced me to every one of them, and I got to learn from play golf with them. And but he believed in me so much he told me, David, you know, Jamie Dimon was on our board. He said, David, you and Jamie Dimon are going to be the CEOs of your error. I didn't even know what a CEO was. I gotta learn how to be a CEO, you know, but the fact that a guy like that, and he was the former president, PepsiCo teacher at Harvard Business School, all this amazing, incredible person, that he could have so much belief in me. It gave me so much confidence. I think about Andy a lot. Almost every day I think about Andy and how he would go about learning something and how excited he get about learning when he learned something. He was so excited about. Funny story about him, which I love to tell because he was the business professor at Harvard after PepsiCo, he was also one of the fortunes top 10 Toughest bosses. He loved that article. He loved it so much that he was a hard asset. You know, he loved it. And but he goes to Harvard first year. And he teaches and he knew everything. He was the smartest guy in the room. He really was a smart guy. And he's incredibly smart guy, and tough. And he went to class and he just told everybody, this is how they needed to think. And so they did a feedback with all of the Harvard teachers, they get the feedback. And he scored lower that every teacher in the entire school, the worst feedback he ever received in this life. And he learned, he self reflected, he learned why it was because he was telling people how they should think. So then he said, Okay, I'm gonna come back and I'm going to be the best. And then what he does, is he uses the case method, he brings in all of the people that he knew and had them talk about their business. And, you know, he used Socratic method of teaching where he would lay out the facts, and then people would, you know, then come up with their own conclusions and their own ideas and answers. He became more of a synthesizer, an orchestra conductor than a my way or the highway type of teacher. And guess what, Tim? That next year, he got the highest ratings of any professor at Harvard Business School. But he's a learner. See, and that's what I talked about in the book. It's just the power of of learning and self reflection, you know, using opportunities to take even what in that case was obviously a failure and turn it into a, into a huge win. That's what Andy Pearson had in his DNA. And that was the shadow that he cast. So

Tim Schurrer 35:15

here you are, you talked about being this guy who is given out rubber chickens. And then you partner up with this guy who fortune, you know, named one of the top 10 Toughest bosses in the United States. What advice would you give to others on how to make differences, a strength on a team?

David Novak 35:38

The biggest thing I would say in this particular situation is you have to have productive conflict. You have to get the issue out on the table. When I met with Andy, you know, we were going to team up and run yum brands. I said, Andy Urich, seen as a heart as I love you, you're smart. You know, I love learning for me. But you're seen as artists, I'm a hardest to in the sense that I'm a winner in the sense of trying to get great results. I want to get results just the same way you do. But I go about a different way I give away these rubber chickens. She says and I believe in recognizing people and and I said, you know, you and I are night and day on this. I said Who's your favorite CEO? He says Bob Crandall Well, Bob Crandall is another one of these tough guys like him. He ran American Airlines, I said, my favorite CEO is Herb Keller. And he was like, known for drinking wild turkey and spreading love all over Texas with Southwest Airlines and having fun people first and all that he had a book out called nuts. And I had the book. And I said to Annie, I said, Look, I want to build a company like Southwest Airlines, I don't want to build a company like American Airlines, you need to read this book. And you're gonna have to support me, because if you don't support me, and we send conflicting meshes just, it's just not going to work out. And so he read the book, and he came back to me and he said, David, I've read this, I believe in it makes sense for a frontline organization. And I can back you on he said, there's only one thing. I want to be the CEO. I've never been the CEO. And I said, Well, Andy, you can be the CEO, I had no problem with that. Because he was 72, I think at the time, and I figured that if I couldn't show the board within three years that I was the next guy, I wouldn't deserve it anyway. But what's really great is he really learned how to be a frontline believer Fast Company did a article on him a couple years later, and it was called Andy Pearson finds love. Okay, and so different. And he talked about, there's a big difference between being tough and tough minded. And they talked about how we had a process around getting results that was different. And he talked about, you know, what he learned from me and what I learned from him. And it was great at the end, he basically said, I was too tough, and he was too soft. I guess that's the way it works.

Tim Schurrer 38:02

I don't know if you pick this up for Mandy, but something that I appreciate about you is how direct you can be. And I just feel like people always know where they stand with you. Talk to me about how you give feedback, because, you know, I know you really do have a process around this? Well,

David Novak 38:21

I think that feedback is really important, and everybody really needs, it's the key to improvement. But I think what you have to do is respect the individual when you give the feedback. Now, what do I mean by by that if someone has worked hard on something, or is put effort into something, you have to acknowledge that. And then I follow a very simple process. And is basically as I start out with, here's what I appreciate about what I just saw, or what I just heard, or what you just presented. And once you start out with that, people are then very open to hearing feedback. But if you just go straight to the negative, they go, Gosh, it didn't, I didn't even realize how much work I put into this, or he didn't hear a thing I said, you know, or whatever. But I always start out with, here's what I appreciate. And then I say and not but here's how I think you can be even more effective. That method of feedback really works because it shows that you have appreciate what somebody's done. And then once you've shown them that appreciation, they're gonna hear the constructive feedback that you have to make something better that works every single time. And I actually use that when I would have group meetings if somebody made a presentation. I say, Okay, let's start with everybody going around the room. What did you appreciate about what you just heard? And then I would say, okay, and how can it be even more effective and everybody go around and do that and then you give the feedback and somebody that's a great way to get some great feedback. Now sometimes somebody's present some it's terrible, and you don't have any appreciation, you can't fake it, you can say, hey, you know, Tim, you might have worked hard on this. But I don't really see a whole lot of redeeming qualities in what I heard, okay, so I'm not saying you, you're fakie, about anything, you got to be genuine about it. In most cases, there's usually something that you can tell people that you appreciate about what happened. Yeah,

Tim Schurrer 40:20

being on the receiving end. And at this point, you've probably given me that feedback hundreds of times, it does have this sense of putting you at ease, you know, you feel respected, because you could have been grinding on the presentation or whatever. So you feel appreciated by that. And that it also makes you want to step in and lean into the feedback. So it works. And I love the very simple process that you do follow in that?

David Novak 40:50

Well, I think one of the things that works for you, Tim, is that you want the feedback. You know, I think that people need to learn the power of wanting feedback, and letting people know you want the feedback. It's like, you know, one of the things in how leaders learn that I write about is that you need truth tellers. Everybody needs to have a truth teller in my life. My wife, Wendy was the best truth teller, she would tell me, you know, what I did well, and what I could do better, and I knew she had my best interest at heart, but I wanted her feedback. You have to open yourself up for feedback so that people know that you're willing to take it. And I always try to follow the three question rule, a lot of times I would go in, especially when you have a lot of power, or you're the SEO, or it didn't matter if I was just running the team. It didn't matter what level I was. But it's even more important when you're the top person. I would ask somebody what they would do if they were me. And they would say, Oh, nothing, you're great. Everything's great. And I'd say, Well, what would you do? If you're a me? Oh, nothing, you're really great. Okay, then I'd ask that question a third time. And then as well, you know, you might want to take a look at the process that we have in our restaurant where we're asking people do x, x and x, which is so bureaucratic, but I had to ask three questions to get it out of people. But that's what you need to do. If you really want to get feedback, you have to want the feedback,

Tim Schurrer 42:09

you have an interesting routine that you do to start the year. Tell me about your annual ritual and what your motivation is behind it. Well, every

David Novak 42:22

year, I try to have a period of self reflection, you know, I get feedback from people I respect. And I think about what I have to do and the following year, and I do what I call my three by five exercise. And I get a three by five card out or a four by six, it doesn't really matter. But the you got to get a no card out. And I write on half of it. I go, What am I today? Like, I might be passionate. Okay? What do I want to be tomorrow. And when I think about how I can be even more effective, I might want to say I want to temper my enthusiasm. Because I'm so passionate, I can overwhelm people to the point where they're afraid of me and give me ideas that might be contrary to what I think that's just an example. But I do a three by five card, it might be a skill that I might pick, I'm a traditional marketing person. Okay, well, now, what I have to do to be more effective tomorrow, I got to understand social media and digital, get better at that. So in golf, it might be, you know, got a good full swing, I gotta get a better short game. But I think really going through that, what am I today? How can I be more effective tomorrow than that, I put that on the refrigerator. And I look at it every day and I share it with you know, I would do my three by five card and I would share it with my top 50 leaders in the company. And then they would develop their three by five cards. And I would coach them every quarter on their three by five card and how they were doing. And then I would ask them for feedback on my three by five card and how I was doing and also go through their their business objectives and their projects that they were working on. But I think you want everybody in your organization in one way shape or form sharpening their axe and I think you as a leader, you got to sharpen your axe. And I think there's nothing more sobering than writing something down in a blank sheet of paper, you know, and then writing that three by five card when you write it down. That means something and then you know you look at it every day. You've tried to stay true to it. Well,

Tim Schurrer 44:38

I know a big part of your life is giving back and it's something that you do with your family. Talk about the impact when it becomes a family initiative, and not just a personal solo initiative.

David Novak 44:54

Tim, I've been very blessed in my life and achieved more success than I ever thought I would made more money than I ever thought I would, I think, for me not to find a way to give back, be very selfish. And I was supposed to have an incredible partner and Wendy, who passed in February. And I have a daughter, Ashley's very caring, and we all wanted to give back. So we created the lift Life Foundation, where we're trying to help people achieve their potential that they otherwise wouldn't achieve without our help. So we've honed in on some major focus areas, leadership development being the one that I basically take the lead in with David Novak leadership, the windy Novak Diabetes Institute and diabetes is something that my daughter and Wendy really, really led. We're passionate about early childhood education, and Ashley is all over that. Veteran Support is really key. So we've been a big proponent of supporting the Folds of Honor, but it's a family affair, you know, and I love the fact that my daughter, Ashley is our executive director and, and she basically runs it. And you know, it's based right out of Louisville here. And I never have anybody called me for anything in Louisville, because they know that the person that is going to get it done is Ashley Butler. And you know, she's right now she's doing so many things. And she's working with the mayor, here in Louisville to with the thrive by five initiative that she's chairing on early childhood. And the other thing that we're really focused on is families feeding the hungry. And you know, so we we've done a lot of things in Louisville, and with the World Food Program to really make sure people go to bed at night with a good meal. And all these things are exciting to us. Because you know, being able to make a difference means a lot to us, when you have somebody come up to you and say, hey, you know, my child just went to the Winnie Novak Diabetes Institute, and they saved her life, you know, that means something, you know, when you get a letter from somebody says, Thank you very much for helping me put my kid through college. And given the fact that, you know, my husband lost his life in the Marines or whatever, you know, I mean, these are the things that you just can't really quantify how much it really means not just to me, but to our entire family. Something

Tim Schurrer 47:17

I've just been so interested to talk to you about, you know, you just talked about your daughter, Ashley, she runs the Family Foundation, you two have a very special relationship. And I think it's the kind of relationship that any parent would envy, they would love to have this kind of relationship with their kid. But also know here, you had such a huge job in running a giant company. How did you do that? I mean, how did you really maintain that relationship without letting work really drive a wedge in your relationship?

David Novak 47:50

Well, I think we've loved each other, the minute we looked at each other. She is a very special person. And she knows that I love her with all my heart. And I know that she's loves me with every fiber of her body. And coming when she was growing up. I couldn't be at everything. But my wife was. And I would plan all the important events, and I made sure I was there. I've always been there for her. And she knows it. And vice versa. Just a good example of Ashley's. I recently purchased along with a few other guys Valhalla golf club, and we just had the PGA Championship there. And she said, Dad, you've got to do this. And I said, I don't know about owning the golf course. And she goes, Dad, it's your joy. It's your joy. You've got to do this. And besides, you've been complaining about what Valhalla can be for the last 15 years. You got to take this on. And you know what she convinced me to do it. And it has been an incredible joy. And we've turned this thing into a unique golf experience you can only find in Kentucky, she did the interior of the clubhouse that we redesigned and but it's just been so much fun. But she knows me. And she's there for me. And somebody asked me what was the highlight of the PGA Championship, you know, and because we're down there at the trophy presentation and all that, and I'll tell you what the highlight was, I looked back up and I saw Ashley Butler, you know, taking a picture, you know, because she just was so proud, you know, and she's just there for me and when when my wife fast, she just goes out of her way to just be with me and give me that call and I'm just over the moon about my daughter, which is great. I think it comes from how do you do what we've done is you just love each other.

Tim Schurrer 49:44

Well, David, this has been a lot of fun. We're gonna keep it rolling. We got a lightning round. All right, you know what's covered. You're ready for this. What three words best describe you

David Novak 49:54

competitive, fun, caring.

Tim Schurrer 49:58

You can be One person for a day besides yourself who would it be? President

David Novak 50:03

United States,

Tim Schurrer 50:04

your biggest pet peeve? People

David Novak 50:06

who are disrespectful other people who

Tim Schurrer 50:08

would play you in a movie, Harrison Ford. Alright, this is what we asked to a lot of the golfers and I love this one. Alright, so it's the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole par four. You need a birdie to win, but somebody else has to hit the shots for you. Who's hitting the drive? Rory McIlroy, who's hitting the approach shot column

David Novak 50:31

Mr. Cow who's putting Cameron Smith. Alright, a

Tim Schurrer 50:34

little trivia for you. Who won the 2022 Club Championship at Shinnecock hills Golf Club in New York.

David Novak 50:41

No comment.

Tim Schurrer 50:45

All right, then I'll answer. David Novak is the answer. You did it. All right, your favorite hole at Valhalla. 13. Something you'd only know about trailer park life. If you've lived in one.

David Novak 51:00

There's no such thing as trailer trash. Oh,

Tim Schurrer 51:03

that's good. A fun fact about Dodge City, Kansas.

David Novak 51:07

Wyatt Earp was not only the sheriff there. But my best friend and college, family owned herb meat company in Kansas City.

Tim Schurrer 51:22

If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

David Novak 51:25

Highway country?

Tim Schurrer 51:26

What's something about you that few people would know that I like

David Novak 51:30

to write country music? Yes.

Tim Schurrer 51:32

Okay. I'm so happy you're talking about this? All right. Most people do not know that you are a songwriter. So talk to me about how you got into all that?

David Novak 51:42

Well, I've always loved writing and lyrics and country. And so what happened? For my 48th wedding anniversary, I wanted to write my wife Wendy a country song. So I went to Nashville and I worked with two great songwriters Jesse Alexander and John Randall. Both of them written a number of top hits. But I came in with my lyrics. And I had an unbelievable amount of good ideas in this for the song because it's all rooted in reality. It was all rooted in the life that Wendy and I had together. And so I work with them. I'm not the guitar or the person who could put the melody together or whatever. But I did have the a lot of the lyrics and we collaborate and we wrote the song called I got Wendy. And I had a blast doing it. And then I gave it to Wendy for basically or 48th wedding anniversary. And we sing it to each other all the time. And it was special thing. But I had so much fun doing I decided to start writing some more songs because I had some more ideas. And so I wrote one about my mother. And then I wrote one about the Star Spangled Banner and then, you know, I wrote another one about, you know, nothing wrong with drinking something wrong with me. Did you know KFC and country, I wrote a bunch of different songs and had a lot of fun doing dealing with Steve Moakler and Nashville and I've got some more that I'm I'm ready to try to do. I love them a lot more than probably everybody else does. But it's a lot of fun. Recently, I I've spent some time with Eric Church, I did a podcast with him and I learned about how he thinks about music and so I'm always learning about it and always listening. You hear country music, you hear country songs, it's just listen to people. That's good.

Tim Schurrer 53:26

Hey, I'm calling that right now we're gonna get a David Novak song on the radio. It's happening. It's gonna happen. Well, it

David Novak 53:33

would be a David Novak Steve Moakler song.

Tim Schurrer 53:37

Well, what do you see as your unfinished business,

David Novak 53:39

I have two things I really want to get done in my life. One is make the world a better place by developing better leaders started this quest. It's a big mission that I have. It's why I wrote the book. It's why I do podcasts. It's why I work with you and other people, you know, just we're trying to make a difference. And then the other thing is, had a meeting today you know, diabetes, terrible disease, and I want to take the Winnie Novak Diabetes Institute and just absolutely be the best in the world. It helps them sleep goes play sports is the diabetic and helping people have babies as a diabetic, helping people, you know, identify at risk diabetics and and do the things that might curtail it. You know, we've got a lot of great things, a lot of research being done there. And, and, but those are the two things that I I want to make happen. I want to be the best at leadership development in the world, developing leaders at every level. And then I want to help create the best Diabetes Institute with Wendy's name behind all

Tim Schurrer 54:39

of that. Alright, last question here. What's one piece of advice you'd give to somebody who wants to be a better leader?

David Novak 54:47

You have to take people with you. It's the only way you can make big things happen.

Tim Schurrer 54:53

David, we've been waiting for this full episode for a long time and I finally talked you into it. So you I have so many incredible leadership insights I'm learning from you every single day, you really show me what good leadership looks like, you know, that whole idea of moving from me to we taking people with you giving great feedback, you know, all the things that we've talked about so far in this conversation, I just want more people to, to hear and learn from and apply to their lives. So appreciate you doing this. Well.

David Novak 55:21

Thank you, Tim. I appreciate it. I do these podcasts myself. And I can tell you, I think I might have been a little bit too long winded, but hopefully you'll edit it properly.

Tim Schurrer 55:45

Well, it sure was fun to turn the tables on David and get him to share his insights and stories with us today. I can tell you, David always has his antenna up looking for great ideas. But it's not just observation. He pairs it with reflection to see how he can adapt those ideas. And then with action, so those ideas become reality. That is what it means to be an active learner. And if you listen to this podcast, you know that David has been using this principle of active learning. hear at the end of every episode, he gives you a simple action that you can take to apply the big idea from the conversation. And this week is no different. But it's an easy one. Here's what I want you to do. Go get yourself a copy of David's book how leaders learn. Read the very first chapter and start discovering how to make this idea of active learning your superpower. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders are active learners. Coming up next on how leaders lead Steve Dunker, the former chairman of naira. That's the New York Racing Association, which operates the three largest thoroughbred horse racing tracks in the state of New York. You

Speaker 1 57:01

can't have just one playbook to be a leader, you have to be able to be adaptive to what your surroundings are, and to who you're leading.

Tim Schurrer 57:09

So be sure to come back again next week to hear David's interview with Steve. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while David interviews some of the very best leaders in the world. We make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be.

And now, here is that surprise that I promised you? So as you heard David talked about in the interview, he's been honing his craft as a country music songwriter, and the song that he mentioned that he wrote for his wife Wendy for their 48th wedding anniversary. Well, we had it recorded in the studio, and we are going to play it for you today. So without further ado, from David Novak, performed by Drew Holcomb and the neighbors here is I got Wendy

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