David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is my friend millon pant, CEO of Amway. Now, Amway just happens to be the largest direct selling company in the world, with over 1 million independent business owners, aka entrepreneurs. And as you'll hear today, Millan has tapped into something that's helping him grow as a leader, and helping his entrepreneurs and Amway grow their businesses. Now, what I'm talking about here is community. We all want to do business with people, we trust people we know. But the big question is, as leaders, how do we build those relationships in today's digital landscape? How can we develop that sense of community with our customers? Well, if you're not sure, keep listening. There's a wealth of wisdom and inspiration here to help you build trust by building community. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. millon, pan.

millon, you grow up in India, in here you are living in Ada, Michigan, and God, I have no idea where that is, is you're the CEO of Amway, who would have thunk

Milind Pant 1:32 

it. David, this is it. First of all, it's a privilege to speak with you. And gosh, you know, when I was growing up, I probably couldn't even put New York City on the map, leave around, figure out where ADA Michigan is. This is, this is surely not a part of any plan.

David Novak 1:49 

Give us a little snapshot of your journey of how you got to ADA.

Milind Pant 1:53 

David, I belong to the foothills of the Himalayas, in India. And as we were growing up, in in any citizen, normal family, loving parents, I guess we were we were rich in, in, in parents taking care of us. In India, there is a there is a phrase called for family values, what we would call family values here as face called sanskaar, which essentially is family values do the right thing. And that's how our parents brought us up and kind of gave us the confidence that you can be whatever you wish to be. On hindsight, David, not at that point of time, we were growing up. But in hindsight, we had very modest modest material means we never had air conditioning and you know, you'd be doing multiple types. You know, it's most of the years is 100 degrees and above, but if you know what you're conditioning at home, you never missed it. The first time we got television at home and a color television at home, even even for that was when I was in my teens. But we grew up happy. And we studied hard and you know, just just had a good set of foundation of values

David Novak 3:16 

were prepared you and from a business perspective to take on this Amway role.

Milind Pant 3:22 

David, I think that journey, if I was to go back would would go back to my initial days in in Unilever in India. I joined it you know straight after my management school. And I still remember the training program there was was very interesting, it was a combination of going across functions and across categories of fairly well rounded perspective at an early stage one of the one of the steps was to spend eight weeks in an Indian village. So here was your after having done my strategy and my marketing and in school already to you know, to to go into glamorous things. And I spent eight weeks as what you would call a paying guest in a village of fairly poor village with no running water, spotty electricity, no bathrooms we used to take take take a bath in the village well out in the open and those kinds of experiences really set a set a great foundation and then I got lucky I got a chance to meet meet you. We were living in Durban South Africa at that point of time. We should talk about the story sometime David but one thing led to another and the last 1012 years I've had the privilege of of just living like a global Nomad with you were in Dublin from Dublin we moved to Delhi, from Delhi to Bangkok all with yum with Bangkok to Shanghai the you know the the opportunity of a lifetime from Shanghai to Dallas and here we are in Ada, Ada, Grand Rapids and Michigan. So it's been quite a hell of a journey. And I'm very thankful for all the opportunities that came my way.

David Novak 5:10 

You know, Bill and you you have over a million independent business owners as I, as I mentioned, could you explain the Amway business model to us?

Milind Pant 5:20 

Well, it's a fascinating model, it was started by two friends, David 60 years back, are rich and Jay. And it's based on three ideas. The first idea is all about unleashing entrepreneurship. That's the core first idea. But that's not the only idea. There are two others. The second is a social idea. So entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs work as a part of a community. They grow and nurture other entrepreneurs, they have relationships that are based on trust another based on heart. And the third part of Amway. It's about health and wellness. The core portfolio of Amway is got to do with holistic, wellness, long term immunity, or organic product starting from taking care of mother earth. And these three ideas of entrepreneurship, social connections, and health and wellness come together across the world, in over 100 markets with a million distributors, and it's as vibrant today as it was six years back. You know,

David Novak 6:33 

it's it's, it's really interesting, because when you think of direct sales organizations, you a lot of people think of like Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes, and how do you handle the misperceptions of your industry?

Milind Pant 6:47 

Well, the most important thing, for for any entrepreneur, to be successful across any industry is to be able to serve their customers. And that's what entrepreneurs do best and they do it with a portfolio that's about beauty and health and wellness. It's fascinating. David as a as a join angry, and I at the bottom, I listen and learn my first 100 days, as I'm going across the world. I met this entrepreneur and in our area, we call them Amway business owners, and in Tokyo, Makiko. Som, and she insisted she wanted to meet me and you know, kind of draw me and she said, We'll cook together, she had to do the chicken and Indian basmati rice with cooking like a group or a community of friends. And she's a million I want to share with you how I'm trying to build my business. I said, Okay, here's an entrepreneur in in Tokyo, and she dished out a mobile phone and started making a presentation from an IG feed or Instagram feed. And she said, she said melon had built a business for 20 years, and I built it home to home and offline. And today, I'm building my community online around my passion, which is cooking around my role as a mom as an entrepreneur. She had 20,000 Instagram followers, David David in April last year, I had four and a half Instagram followers, right? And I looked at I said, Why isn't this something if we could have a million Mikiko sounds across the world if we could, if we could help a 23 year old anywhere in the world, be it in Miami, London, Sydney, Shanghai, Delhi, Kuala Lumpur pianist heiress who can come to us need not need to have any capital didn't have a college degree. Everyone is welcome. And we help us succeed at her time and her flexibility and her freedom and build a business on our own terms. Won't that be great? And that's how our angry journey to walk the halls social commerce, a 10 year plan that we've put into place, it's a fantastic idea that helps people across the world be successful.

David Novak 9:04 

That's great. You know, I love your enthusiasm. That's fantastic. And, you know, I know Amway is a family owned business, and you're the first outside CEO. Tell us about the hiring process that had to be fascinating.

Milind Pant 9:18 

I guess I got I got lucky. David. The first time, you know, I got enough of the opportunity at that as a CEO role. I was intrigued. I was intrigued more because you're not you're not going to look at the brief if it was a global business. I didn't realize that Amway had 90% of its revenues outside of United States. You're actually 75% round with businesses between Tokyo and Mumbai in Asia. So that's fascinating. That kind of plays up to the area I know. I know best. Then it's a it's a business of brands. Is that all right, that sounds good too. Then I said like what are the products? So I requested an MRI The who, you know, well, my wife to say already, why don't you order some products online. And she did that and you know lo behold of 48 hours, we got a box of artistry beauty products and Nutrilite and gummies. And my son and I finished off the gummies in like 24 hours that size it like Okay, great product, global business brands. But you know, family owned, like you said, privately held, what does that mean? So I'm written I were invited over by by the DeVos. And Jay Van Andel families to do Ada, Michigan, and frankly, don't even know we're living in Dallas, I really didn't know where ADA Michigan is on the map. But we went in a very open mind. Both of us took a younger son alarm. And my God, what out what a wonderful experience it was. We were invited to the homes for meals, we met the kids. It was one family to another family very down to earth. And I thought to myself, and as we were returning to Dallas, Amrita and I chatted, we said, we grew up million miles away in the foothills of the Himalayas. But the value system and the family values that our parents inculcated in us, are very similar to the family values of the divorce and the value of families in West Michigan. And whichever way the process goes, our heart was made.

David Novak 11:25 

How many generations of family members did you meet?

Milind Pant 11:29 

I read, right. We met we met generation to generation three, and the generation four is still very young.

David Novak 11:36 

Oh, that's great. I love it. I love it. And it's a great American story. There's no question Amway.

Milind Pant 11:42 

It is,

David Novak 11:44 

you know, what gave you the confidence you were ready to take on that job and succeed. You know, how hard was it for you really to make the big leap? I mean, you were leaving a yum brands, you were on your way. You had a great job as the head of pizza International. And, you know, you had a good security blanket.

Milind Pant 12:06 

I did and and, you know that question, David reminds me of a similar decision that I, I went through and towards the end of 2017, as you know, you know, I'm retired and the family had moved to Durban, South Africa with Unilever. And we were well settled there. And, you know, one morning in December, I got an email in my Gmail account, from someone called David Novak. When I was with Unilever, who said, Milan and you know, David, I knew it was from you, because it said Mi La nd instead of Mr. Li, nd, which is a which is with Indian names, who knows. But it said, and it went on to get your authentic personality. And, and your your offer to just have a conversation. And one thing led to another and I left Unilever to join yarn, which and I'm so thankful to you for giving me that opportunity. And it was then a decision, which was as much based on on rational and intellectual reasons, as it was based on emotional and reasons of the heart. And it's the same thing that happened when I moved from yum. To Amway, it was as much based on on the sense of adventure of being a CEO of being able to work with a large global company with a million entrepreneurs and do my do my little bit to serve them and make them successful, as it was the the Conference of common values and value systems between people I met in the families and my family.

David Novak 13:43 

You know, Milan, I apologize for misspelling your name back. I do know that it's mi L. I am AMD,

Unknown Speaker 13:53 

but you know, you

David Novak 13:54 

mentioned you had a big learning session, or you spent some time you said Lunch and Learn session, or how did you go about learning the challenges for the company?

Milind Pant 14:05 

David, this is something that I've found useful and every big, big moves that I've made, which is to listen and learn. When I joined Amway, you know, I made it explicit to my team and to the entire organization and to the board, that I will spend my first 100 days to listen along. So what did I do? The first thing I did is, I rent to where the rubber hits the road, I went to the markets, to spend time with the managing directors, to spend time with our entrepreneurs to listen to the stories and how they were building the business. Because I knew with all the strengths we have, we had to massively transform to be relevant to entrepreneurs, young entrepreneurs and to the competition that was coming to us from multiple angles, including e commerce. I went I went to the markets, to listen to them and to listen to the entrepreneurs and Mikiko son in Tokyo is one of those I met but I travel across the world. The second thing I did was to do to go outside Amway. And I looked at digital and technology companies and looked at startups in nutrition. So we spent time in California when the cross on on a whole week long trip, visiting the usual names, the Facebook and the Google, but also a number of other startup companies in nutrition. And then I went to Hong Jo, to spend time in Alibaba. So we looked outside. And then we learned from there. And the third thing I did was to reach out to the gurus I reached out to you, David, I reached out to Indra, you know, who I've known for, for quite some time, I reached out to Ramcharan. And I reached out, I even went to went to two programs, one by water, and one by BCG for new CEOs, just to wrap my mind around and build my plan. And once my 100 days were done, I then shared my my listening on learnings and my thoughts on where I believe, what are the strengths of Ambay? What are the changes I'm seeing and where we need to go? And then an organization wide memo in April last year, which was the starting of my journey, and ambi

David Novak 16:14 

Where did you decide villain, you know, where you could add the most value as CEO? I mean, what did you make your immediate priorities after that, at that learning experience?

Milind Pant 16:24 

My My biggest priority, David, is is to nurture our culture. We we are we have an awesome culture. And I'm where it's, it's, it's built on, on long standing values. It's a culture of the heart. And my, my main role is to nurture that culture into what we call founders growth man's mindset. So we take the best of the spirit of our founders, the pioneering spirit of rich and Jay, and combine it with Carol Dweck, in a book mindset talked about having a growth mindset and a fixed mindset. And that's the journey I personally on my leadership team has on an entire 16 or 16,000 employees of Amway are on and that's my, that's my first first and foremost priority. Along with culture, of course, we're looking at talent, we're looking at various ways of building capability, we encouraging people people to be able to feel safe, to take risk. There is so much as changing so fast around us, that we need everyone in some way to feel secure and to be on their own personal journey of founders growth mindset.

David Novak 17:43 

You know, Milan, I know some people who have family members and friends that are in direct selling organizations, and you know, that the real limitation to growth and revenue growth is it really comes down to the personal limitations that the the the entrepreneur itself has, you know, how important is you to is it for you to develop that capability helping people get the skills they need?

Milind Pant 18:13 

I think that's that's a that's a critical role. And in our, in our, in the Amway Amway ecosystem, our leaders play a big part in either the most important role of the leader or distributor leader is to is to nurture and coach and in some sense, provide the skills as well as have a say, I've got your back to someone who's starting a new, and who may fail a number of time before they succeed. So that's a big role that the distributor leaders play in an organization. What we do as an Amway to help the new A B or the new person to succeed, is to make it as easy as possible for her to acquire and retain customers and to get the tools and the skills required for her from day one, to start earning and stop learning new things. And then the leaders provide a sense of community that helps them succeed. And obviously, it has the sense of I got your back.

David Novak 19:17 

You know, I I heard you say her? Yeah, you know, so what percentage of your Amway business owners are female?

Milind Pant 19:25 

David, as you say, we have a million distributors. Close to two thirds are our female rather than some of our most successful markets like Korea, where we have a billion dollar business in a country of 50 million people? 90% of our Amway business owners or entrepreneurs are women.

David Novak 19:45 

And how are you developing their skills in particular, is there something unique you're doing on that front?

Milind Pant 19:51 

There is there's a lot of work that is taking place, David, I think the if I was to take that question and kind of just take take us A bad I think it starts with the global leadership team itself in anger first. My colleagues and I, there are 10 of us in the global leadership team. It's completely balanced on gender, there are five women, five men. We've got seven different ethnicities in the 10 of us. We've got, you know, Malaysian, Chinese, I'm Indian, there's an ocean freight, there's Italian, there's African American, because seven different ethnicities, a very diverse leadership team very balanced on on gender. And that is kind of the shadow that we are putting across across the world. But specifically coming to your question about entrepreneurs, we are looking at different communities, where women, young bonds, young women are able to do to express their interest and passion and build those communities. For example, we've got a whole set of communities that we help them build on beauty, you know, powered by our products, we've got a whole program called fashionistas that runs across the world, we've got communities around cooking, it is it is it is a little known secret that Camrys got a whole set of portfolio of products. On cooking, especially in Asia, we got we got communities and fitness. There is so many communities across the world that help women succeed. And, you know, our work can be done from home at at at a person's own time. And especially young moms truly find that to be a blessing in societies across the world.

David Novak 21:40 

You know, Bill, and you know what, what was the what was the most surprising thing you learned about Amway?

Milind Pant 21:47 

Well, there are so many surprising things that I learned about Amway. David, you know, one of my surprises was that I didn't realize I had no idea that Amway has 6000 acres of organic farms across campus, in Brazil, Mexico, and in Washington State. And the first time I went to those organic farms and said, Oh, my God, we've been taking care of mother earth for the last 85 years. At today, today, you know, I don't know Is it is it, farm to table and so for the mainstream ideas, I'm a neutral. I've been doing this for any five years, starting with organic farming. That was a big surprise to me. The fact that we had entrepreneurs, young entrepreneurs, I don't know why I went to Thailand country where, you know, in jam, I spent a number of years, and I met those young entrepreneurs, and they were on fire. They wanted to change and change fast, they wanted digital tools, they wanted to help us move faster in terms of change that we wanted to, that was a surprise to meet meet entrepreneurs like that. And, and I think the culture of Amway, a number of organizations, you know, talk about purpose. And I think that's one of the things that you hear most leaders talking about in Amway has been the same purpose for 60 years. And it will be the same purpose for the next six years, which is helping people live better, healthier lives. It's not something that you know, a group of consultants, or even the CEO kind of wrote it down on a piece of paper, and it's on a wall somewhere. It lives in every employee's heart, and that I found with a very special and very different thing. And I'm where,

David Novak 23:33 

so you have this purpose, it was established. So as the CEO, what's your role?

Milind Pant 23:38 

So my role is, is to keep the why and strengthen the why which is of purpose, but everything about the how and the what is changing?

David Novak 23:50 

And what is the biggest change?

Milind Pant 23:52 

The biggest change is is our is is to, is to help attract and help our young entrepreneurs and new entrepreneurs succeed in this world of social commerce. David, what's happening across the world today is that there is a very successful business models in E commerce. There's Amazon here, there is Alibaba there is Flipkart in India and so on across the world. There are also a hugely successful models and in social platforms, in Facebook, in Krakow in Korea, line WeChat in China. What's taking place today is that ecommerce and social platforms are merging together to build a new business model, a huge opportunity called social commerce. And Andre is designed in his ideas that I talked to you about earlier entrepreneur, social and health and wellness, to be one of the leaders in this new emerging industry and business models of VR. We are reinventing traditional direct selling into social commerce. And that is our biggest long term strategic change that we are making.

David Novak 25:16 

So, Milan, you've got to take your team with you to really go on this journey. How are you going about aligning the the team to tap these growth opportunities

Milind Pant 25:26 

other than reading, taking people with you? But what about the way I did that? David, I read I taking people with you. And I don't know if I mentioned this to you and the section there on trust. And you know how trust is built and trust is destroyed. But one of the things we've been doing, David is is for my team to answer your question is we're on a journey to do lead from the heart. Each of us would want to lead with love and humility, and not fall into pride and fear. When there's so much change that takes place with a team that has been built that is so diverse. There is it's human, it's human for me, at times of massive change or, or crisis, like the pandemic, to either go into pride, or fear. And we are we're staying above the line and staying with with lead from the heart. Something that you know, a couple of who, you know, well, Steven and Maura started with and they've continued to work with us in Ambien the journey that has been, that has been in some sense, the primary intervention that we're using in the senior leadership team today, and then there are others. Communication is a is a big part of that, David. And I realized, as I was talking to you earlier, it's not it's not so much about email communication. But you know, surprisingly, surprise, surprise, my main channel of communication is Instagram, and is daily. And that helps me keep in touch with our entrepreneurs across the world and our employees across the world almost real time.

David Novak 27:10 

So what are you going to Instagram on today?

Milind Pant 27:16 

Well, you know, today's today's are the most recent Instagram posts within about a new innovation that our channel team dead in the middle of the pandemic in 90 days, a new immunity product, which I've which I've taken as the example of, of great agility of the team, to do, you know, to provide products that help the society in the long run, but there is so much more that I'm learning, you know, as, as I as I, as I navigate Instagram, it's my, it's required for me to be on a growth mindset in a way that I didn't think I would be able to do.

David Novak 27:51 

So now you're an Instagram junkie, which is fantastic. You know, I imagined Milan that the gig economy is really affecting your, you know, your business to some extent, you know? Is it enabling you to require more new business, Amway business owners? Or is it becoming more competitive?

Milind Pant 28:12 

Okay, that's a great question. And, and the way, you know, we I'd say is, we talked about social commerce, right, the the confluence of E commerce and social platforms that are taking place, there are during this pandemic, you know, it has been very tough, but it has accelerated our journey, the 10 year journey that I that I mentioned to you, because there are three early trends that are emerging. The first is, there is a need in society for people with supplemental income, which is called gig economy. You know, economies are hurt, their people are unemployed, and it's probably going to take a while, before countries across the world are back to do their feet in the most, most vulnerable sections about back on their feet. And that's a big need in society. And and that's a, that's a need that Amway can can fulfill in its own small way. The second thing that's happening in terms of of mega trends early is there's a huge focus on health and wellness and long term immunity. It's a need in society, again, all of us are concerned about, about, you know, our family, our spouses, our parents or kids, or neighbors or community. How do we after hand washing and, and social distancing? What else do we do on a long term in terms of habits to be able to have have build up our immunity? And the third trend is online is the new offline and you know, the two of us having this conversation over zoom, and a podcast is just just a way of, of that trend manifesting itself. So as far as the gig economy is concerned, that's a tailwind for the Amway business. And an Amway perhaps was the original gig economy player even before the term was coined. because it offered freedom and flexibility to anyone who wanted to join in,

David Novak 30:05 

that's interested, you know, you know, when you're the largest of anything, and you're the largest direct selling organization in the world, it's easy to rest on your laurels and get complacent. What are you doing to drive even more fire in the belly of the organization?

Milind Pant 30:23 

I think though, the one thing that I am I, you know, the leadership team I'm part of, and an entire organization wakes up to every morning, David, is this deep rooted desire, or, you know, fire in the belly or desire in the heart of helping the entrepreneur, specially the new young entrepreneurs succeed? That is something that's pervasive in the organization. And that new entrepreneur, she might, as I said, might be in Seoul, or Tokyo and Shanghai, or Delhi, or Miami, she is today needs even more of an array, both in terms of the entrepreneurship tools we provide, both in terms of digital and technology that we provide innovative products, we provide partnership with a leader that we provide for her to be successful. And that's something that continues to drive us. That is the core belief. That is is is deep, embedded in an angry somewhat like, if he fails to recollect the young days, it was a success of the restaurant general manager, he or she was the leader number one. And all of us woke up in whichever role whichever function whichever part of the world, we were, we always woke up to think what would we do that will help the restaurant General Manager succeed is the same principle and, um, weigh in is what do we do to help the entrepreneur succeed, especially during the early stages of our journey?

David Novak 32:05 

So you're really focused on developing this social commerce? And is that one of the reasons why you're demonstrating your new acuity to Instagram?

Milind Pant 32:16 

I think I stumbled into Instagram, more than anything else, David, I probably taught I'm, I'm going to be your spectacularly failing, and I'm quite enjoying it. And the thing that I enjoy them I enjoy the most is I can see entrepreneurs across the world. There are authentic personality and ways that they're building the business, I would never be able to get that real experience authentic experience by any PowerPoint deck, or any report that comes to me I get it true. live through Instagram.

David Novak 32:56 

You know, you've got a lot of competition, I'm sure. But everybody has Amazon, Amazon's this big, big elephant, you know, out there, how's it affecting your business?

Milind Pant 33:07 

Well, you know, David, competition is good. Competition keeps us on our toes and drives us to keep better. Amazon has everything. It has the capital, it has the capabilities, it has the momentum. But Amazon does not have one thing that angry has, and I don't think it's in their business model to have it. Amazon does not have the entrepreneur. It doesn't have the Amway business owner. And that is a secret sauce of Amway. There is there are people there who want to buy from people who build who trust relationships, we can provide health and wellness solutions to people from those who they trust and those who know them. And we can do that with a product. We can do that with immense amount of data. And algorithms that we can help our entrepreneurs with. We you know, Amazon and models like that, and ecommerce will always be successful because they're our customers will always need only an easy frictionless experience and for a number of categories. That is true even in our own home. But in health and wellness particularly and to a large extent in beauty. People want to be a part of a community and buy from those who they trust. And the Amway business owner, the entrepreneur is our our secret recipe, one that that that stands us and provides us a competitive advantage that Amazon cannot match.

David Novak 34:40 

You know, Mila and I understand that Amway has over 800 patents. So innovation is obviously very important to you. You know, tell us a story about the most exciting new idea that you've seen so far.

Milind Pant 34:55 

Um, David, I would I could give you some So many from across the world. But perhaps the one that kind of brings the best of MBA out is is is an is a is a new product i, which was very unlikely and it's still not been commercialized. And I'll give you a context. I'll just get to your question specifically. This was in the early days of the pandemic, in the United States. Of course, it It started around the lunar year and other parts of the world, middle of March, and I got a call from the CEO of the largest hospital network in West Michigan, saying that we need help. I said, What is it? I mean, we would love to love to do whatever we can be a part of the community here, we are completely committed to he said, We need hand sanitizers. Can we help? said well, I'll find out we really don't make hand sanitizers. And even if he wanted to make it might be weeks or months. By the time we can we can we can manufacture or or or or producing for you. Anyways, I call up my my colleagues and I said this is a request that's come from the community, what can we do, they said, you know, we don't make it. But let us figure it out. While David, To cut a long story short, in five days flat, we not only got the packaging, the formulation, the FDA approval, we manufacture the hand sanitizers, and we delivered it to hospitals across West Michigan, rather, there's, there's one here, you know, read me on my on my desk. And this showed the innovation, it showed the agility, it showed the empowerment of a cross functional team, I was frankly, you know, holed up in my home, I had no clue how this would be done. But the team went and went and did that. And that's the spirit and what I call the best of anger being unleashed across the world. That's happening in innovation and the hand sanitizer is one, one example of that. That's a great

David Novak 37:04 

story. And, you know, Bill, and I know you talk a lot about the importance of courage, do you have a, an experience in your leadership past where that really became something that really meant a lot to you?

Milind Pant 37:21 

David, for me, courage, at times, starts with understanding one's fears. And kind of acknowledging that one is one is one is vulnerable. And, and to do that, first one's own self, and then to those around him colleagues, you know, one one who trust so I've been I've been through many instances in my career, where I, I learned the value of, of courage, perhaps, on hindsight, even more than being courageous at that, at that time. I think the classic one, which you will relate to very well is, is when I when I moved to China, as a part of young Holly success, successful business, very proud, team 400,000 employees business built over multiple decades, at that time, required a change. And, and I went there, and I it was it was complex complexity of the business itself, complexity of not knowing the language, you know, all meetings and all emails being in Mandarin, was the new experience. And, and just the pace of change that was required, and the dynamics of the team, with very strong leaders with very strong opinions. And I learned my lesson, that I need to be even more courageous in times like this, to make sure that we do the right thing to help the restaurant General Manager across China, in this case, succeed. So that's, that's been one, one learning on courage or one where I was not as courageous that as I should have been, during the early stages of my days in young China,

David Novak 39:29 

where you were very courageous to take that job. Thank you, you know, as as Indian going into into China, and one of the reasons why he got that job was because of your cultural sensitivity and, and now you're in well over 100 countries and Amway. And what do you think would be the number one thing you have to do to really run a truly global company?

Milind Pant 39:51 

You know, especially in the in the in the world we're living in and, and the friction that we see in societies and focus on differences more than similarities, I would go back to something I learned David, which we mentioned earlier in this conversation during my time as gm of Thailand. And I learned that from my mistakes, which is, first and foremost, the leader needs to lead from the heart, and to lead with love and humility, with a high degree of empathy and sensitivity to people across the world. Everyone gets up every morning, to do their best to be successful. You know, to be a good dad, good mom, a good colleague, a good friend at work and do the best in the job. And it's, it's, it's my job, it's my responsibility to to have a culture and environment that everyone can shine to their best, best of who they want to be. And to me in my personal behavior, that comes with leading with, with love and with humility, instead of pride and fear,

David Novak 41:05 

you know, when you say leading with love, you know, that sounds pretty soft, airy fairy kind of stuff, you know, the people eyes roll over when you say that,

Milind Pant 41:15 

well, yes, it does. Till till we go deeper into it. And and understand. For example, giving honest, true feedback to people is a is a reflection of love. You know, we want the best for those who work with us and you know, who we work around and, and that is love to put what would you use to talk about a lot, David, to put V before me, is an expression of love those those of us who and it's human to all of us who get self centered or selfish at times and put me before V. That's the expression of love towards others. So, so yes, I think at times in a conventional service, a corporate environment, it may seem to be softy, softy. But this is very much go to what Amway is, is very much go to as being a people business. We are not into brick and mortars. We are our distributors are humans, when we have to work with them and take them with us. It's not about appealing to the intellect, it's appealing to their heart. And for them to be able to trust us that we have got the best interest in mind and all that starts with loving humility. And and by the way, I remember that personal journey. And there are times when I can get into pride and fear, especially when there is this crisis or this pressure and revert to it. But it's a good reminder and help with my colleagues at work to have the awareness and with Amrita at home, to have the awareness that, you know, when asked to continue on that journey.

David Novak 43:02 

You know, you mentioned these are challenging times earlier, and this country now is facing the aftermath of the tragic death of George Floyd. How have you addressed this within your organization?

Milind Pant 43:16 

I think the V being you know, David, staying true to the idea of Amway, that Amway is for everyone. So the first thing we've done is to clearly communicate, where we stand. And we've done that, in, in, in in in clear ways that black lives matter. And internally, we are taking number of steps that help people have conversations that are difficult, that are awkward at times. You know, there are there are unity circles within um, where groups that get together and talk about real issues in society that they are the real hurt that is there and and first and foremost, start a healing process. We are we are working with the community here in Grand Rapids to see what substantive differences we can make in a home here in Grand Rapids beyond say the current news cycle,

David Novak 44:29 

well, that's outstanding and then you know, and hopefully we're gonna get some real change this time around on this and mill and you've had so much success in your career. Do you have a what you would call an epic fail? And what did it teach you,

Milind Pant 44:44 

David? I'm still working progress. And I've had multiple epic fail. So where do you want me to start let Okay, let me let me go back to my Unilever days and the David, this was my first role as marketing director in India for the ice creams category. And I was, I was, you know, younger and, and confident, perhaps cocky, then, and this is a small business Unilever in India today is a $6 billion business, it's been highly successful. Over the years. For me, it was like a second MBA and so much I learned there, as I did in yum. So I went to this ice cream business, which is a smaller business in Unilever, struggling not making money. So it was a really tough business. And one of the things that attracted me to the fact that it was a tough challenge, and I moved to the business and, and I think it was the May or May or June of the year, in the middle of summer, our business of primarily impulse products, and you know, what I set for myself, as I said, in my first 100 days, I want to build and execute a turnaround plan. So I didn't listen to learn, okay, I went in saying I'll build a turnaround plan, got new positioning, in new advertising, very cute, very intelligent, we made 2020 or 25 new products in in 100 days, from ideas to manufacturing, and went in launch date without bank. By the time this happened, this was then start of September. And, you know, there was a little bit of a problem that some of us Oh, and this will work. And while while the business did improve, it was a no turnaround. That what had one had planned for and, and for me, this was not only an epic failure, it was my first public failure and a setback. And one that I when I reflect on it was was was truly a time for for learning, learning. Learning as as a person as an a colleague, learning not to be in a fixed mindset, and and to pick this up and then see what 111 gets from there. But it was it was when I look back even now when I went made meet my people I worked with then I sometimes ask ask them, Why did you find me? I think you need it was very generous.

David Novak 47:24 

It's always fun to hear those stories, you know, and it's been fun hearing your insights. Melinda, I want to have a little bit more fun with you here and ask you a lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this show, David? Okay, what three words best describe you?

Milind Pant 47:39 

I'm restless. Energetic, passionate.

David Novak 47:46 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Milind Pant 47:49 

My biggest pet peeve. David is when I when I come across people who do not want to change as fast as they can.

David Novak 48:01 

If you could trade places with one person for a day, who would it be and why? Ah.

Milind Pant 48:09 

I think I think your duty these days I told him the 111 household member I want to trade places where this is a is a diva. A diva live by Tyra got the best life in the world.

David Novak 48:25 

What was something about you that only a few people would know?

Milind Pant 48:31 

David, this is this is all of this little fun fact. You know, a first job in Unilever. After I did my my management, undergrad and you know, the second strategy and marketing was not to handle a brand management of one of the brands like Dharwar or x or or Lipton. It was in a in a business unit that made leather shoes for exports in Unilever. I said okay, that's great. That sounds fantastic. Maybe I'll get a chance to go to London or New York where customers are based. I never never traveled outside of India at that point of time and join Unilever. So my gentleman I still remember sets and no young man. You got to start with the foundation of the business. You got to start with leather tanneries. So my first role in Unilever was vendor management of leather processing. This is close to 30 years back in India tanneries died foul smell is still in my nostrils even today.

David Novak 49:42 

Do you have any hidden talents?

Milind Pant 49:44 

Give it perhaps Bollywood dancing.

David Novak 49:51 

You know, you know Milan you've been in 24/7 Huge travel jobs for a long time. What's the best way or what do you have any advice on how to manage work life balance?

Milind Pant 50:04 

It's a tough one, David. And it's even got tougher during the pandemic. And I must admit there are in the first, you know, four to six weeks one was very exhausted. Because, you know, weekdays, weekends were merging with each other. And again, the same thing happened with travel. With 90% of our business outside of United States, I've inculcated a couple of habits that you know, hopefully could be useful for others. One is daily exercise. Even if it's been just 20 minutes, it could just be a run, or getting onto a bike or whatever it is just 20 minutes of daily exercise. The second thing, which I've picked up in the last couple of years, David, is just in the afternoon, take 10 minutes to shut my eyes and meditate. It clears my head. And it kind of gives me a renewed energy for the rest of the day. And, and the third one, David is I've, I've moved back in some sense, I guess, to my roots, and move to predominantly plant based diets, not 100%, but predominantly plant based diets, which I guess fits in very well with Nutrilite. Now, but these are the three you know, habits. One that has one as inculcating going forward.

David Novak 51:23 

Oh, that's great. You know, and millon, as we wrap this up, I want to go back. And it's one of my career highlights in terms of people is that I interviewed you and you didn't take the job. And I thought you were gonna take the job. And I asked what happened to this guy named Melon Pan? And they said, Well, he, he turned us down. So I sent you an email. And I said, you know, when I look back on the last year, the fact that we didn't hire you is one of my biggest disappointments. And you sent me an email back and we interviewed again. And then you know, we were lucky enough to get you to come to yum branch, which is KFC, Pizza Hut and Taco Bell. And you did a great job there. And it's great to see you hitting the ground running and Amway. And they're lucky to have you and thank you so much for taking the time to be on this podcast.

Milind Pant 52:12 

Thank you, David. It's, you know that that meal and being in your office, and low well and looking at all the recognition photos, not only on the walls, but you know, across every inch of your office spaces. It was is a is a memory I treasure. David, thank you for this conversation. It's a privilege. enjoyed every minute of it.

David Novak 52:34 

Great, me too.

Well, that was really fun catching up with Millan. He has such an authentic passion for people. He loves creating an environment where they can thrive. And that is just what he's doing. For the 1 million independent business owners at Amway. That number just blows me away. And he's really leaning into the edge they have over a company like Amazon, and that's the community his entrepreneurs can build. We all want to do business with people we know and trust. So what does that mean for you as a leader? Let's dig in a little. This week is a part of your weekly personal development plan. Lis three ways you can build a stronger community around your brand. Now social media is an obvious place to start. But remember that community also formed when people share a mission when they feel heard, and when they can solve problems together. The great leaders I know put effort into developing that sense of community because it creates the kind of incredible trust and relationships that successful businesses are built on. So do you want to know how leaders lead? Well, we learned today is the great leaders build trust by building community. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be