David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Lindsey Johnson, co founder and CEO of Wheezy towels. I gotta tell you, I met Lindsay at a business function a while back and I was so impressed. This is a young entrepreneur who is articulate and passionate and wicked smart. She and her co founder Liz cycles are building something really special at Wheezy towels, they have made a unique product people love with differentiators that no one else has all wrapped up in a fun, thoughtful branding that really strikes home to all their customers. And it all started because Lindsay and her co founder were really passionate about this problem of bad towels out there that were either not absorbent or not soft. But they took that passion. And then they said, Okay, we're going to put some real substance against it. And Lizzie got kind of obsessed with it not not kind of obsessed, I'd say really obsessed. She dove deep into the technical details of her category. And as a result, they have some incredible product innovations that nobody else can rival. I mean, it's amazing what can happen when a leader has big picture passionate about a problem, and then jumps into the tiny specific details of that problem. And hearing from Lindsey is a great way to learn for yourself how to pair passion with substance. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Lindsey Johnson.

Lindsey, it's just so great to talk to you. I understand you just had a baby. A little girl. Tell us her name and where are you hanging out these days?

Lindsey Johnson 1:59 

I did. Her name is Miller and we had her in New York City on March 6, which was a crazy place to have a baby given all that was going on with Coronavirus and did a couple months with my in laws in Virginia after she was born now back in New York City and packing up to actually relocate to Atlanta full time.

David Novak 2:21 

So baby born and 2020 Coronavirus now that's a that's a birth remember?

Lindsey Johnson 2:27 

Absolutely. It was certainly not the environment I had expected. But

David Novak 2:31 

I understand that you're moving your headquarters from New York to Atlanta. Tell us about that process. Yeah,

Lindsey Johnson 2:37 

so we the company has been based between Savannah and New York. So my co founder is actually located in Savannah. I'm in New York and we told the entire company about six months ago we were going to be relocating from New York to Atlanta, and the plan was to have that completed by q1 of this year and with me getting pregnant and then having Coronavirus happen we had a little bit of a delay there but we are still in the process of making that move. And I'm the last piece of the puzzle to join the team down in Atlanta so super excited to get the team will still be based between two locations but now will be much closer to one another. Well what kind

David Novak 3:14 

of impact Lindsey has Coronavirus had on your business?

Lindsey Johnson 3:18 

Oh wow. Um, we have had a lot of impact I would say being in the consumer space obviously I think consumer demand is very different today and just the retail environment has been totally flipped on its head I will say that we from a demand perspective have been fortunate that we are in a completely online you know, direct to consumer ecommerce business so we did not have a brick and mortar presence that was affected. We've also been fortunate that you know, we are in the home category and people are spending a lot of time at home right now which is definitely helped us but on the flip side, it's been very negatively impacted from a supply chain perspective. From a you know, people management perspective, we have a lot of folks who have kids whose schools have been canceled and our fulfillment team has been the most impacted having to stay at home with those children and our supply chain is all in Europe so we had a couple of weeks shut down in our factory there so it's definitely been something where I feel like every day we have a new fire to put out that is Corona related so I spent all this time planning for my maternity leave and for better for worse I didn't get much of one but I think it's been certainly a challenging but exciting time for the company.

David Novak 4:32 

Well I'll tell you you know they're definitely get it got popped out of the balloon with Coronavirus for a lot of businesses and I'm sure yours has been impacted as well. But you know, putting COVID-19 aside your company is really just taking off. You know, it's you've been featured and Fast Company Vogue, Wall Street Journal, you're exceeding your revenue expectations. You know, why do you think you're off to such a roaring start?

Lindsey Johnson 4:56 

Loaded question, but I think you know for us we He, when we identified the problem, I will say my co founder, Liz is the one who really came up with the idea for the business. And it was totally born out of a true consumer issue that she had. So this wasn't a let's throw a whiteboard up and try to find a business to start this was, she had a real pain point when she was shopping for towels. And she had a pain point, when she found the towels that she thought she wanted and their performance, she didn't find a brand that she loved, she was overwhelmed with options. And there's just a myriad of myriad of reasons that she thought this would be a business, you know, a problem worth solving. And so I think that's kind of where it all starts as we were solving a true problem. And then the second thing I'd say is that we spent a lot of time on the upfront research, trying to one kind of further fine tune that problem and to come up with a solution. So it wasn't just an overnight, hey, we have this idea, let's launch this business. It was, hey, this is an idea. And then we spent a year and a half, you know, researching, fine tuning, talking to customers, and really making sure we had ticked all the boxes we could think of before we launched and I think that meticulous up front prep work definitely helped us see the success right out of the gate. But I would have to say the continued success is because of the team. I mean, Liz and I might have started at all. But since day one, we've had just the most incredible team behind us. And I think that's something we are so fortunate that we have these people that are kind of helping move the ball forward, especially when you know, I've just had a baby and that Liz is actually having her second baby next week. So now we're reminded more than ever, how important it is to have people who share our vision and kind of help move the ball forward.

David Novak 6:44 

I want to back up a little bit. How did you get to know Liz? And and tell us about that conversation? Yeah, that you remember that big conversation you have where you said, Man, you know, we could actually build a business around this

Lindsey Johnson 6:56 

idea. It was definitely many conversations. So Liz, I've known her for almost a decade, or I guess it just over a decade now. I went to undergraduate school at Vanderbilt, and she was at University of Georgia. And I am from Atlanta originally was visiting the college to visit some friends and met her through friends of friends. And it was very, you know, loose connection, I would say, but was reintroduced to her when we both moved to New York City after graduating. And so she was a personal friend of mine, we were in each other's weddings. And Never did I think that either of us had ever thought that we sort of business together. But she really sent like an innocent text to a group of girlfriends saying, you know, who has a towel brand that they would recommend I just had this like very painful experience, picking out towels and trying to find a brand that I was excited about in a product that really stood up to its price point. And that casual conversation turned into like a one off side text to me that said, no one has a brand that they love. You know, my towels suck, quite frankly. And there's got to be a better way. What do you think? And that very kind of like I said innocent conversation snowballed into something that became Weezy. And at the time, I was in business school at Columbia, and I was actually working towards going to work in venture capital. And so I had a very different plan for my career. My background is all in finance. And I was kind of continuing down that path. And this was definitely not something that I had planned for. But it was once the idea was planted. And once you know, we had the data to back up that there was a problem there meeting we had talked to, you know, hundreds of consumers through surveys and focus groups, it just became an idea that I could not ignore. And it's funny because I think at first I'm a skeptic, by nature, I like to sort of like trust, but verify. So like I trusted her, but I wanted to sort of do my own homework. And once I had done that, it was one of those things where it was like I just I knew that there was a problem. And once we kind of figured out the solution, it was something we just couldn't not do.

David Novak 8:56 

How do you decide who does what you co founded the company, but you don't you're not co CEOs, you're the CEO of the company,

Lindsey Johnson 9:03 

right? We're very lucky in that. And I think this is I guess it's luck. And it's by design that we're very different people with very different skill set. So her background is actually as a graphic designer, she went to art school, and she was the Creative Director at a media group called bustle. My background was in finance, and was you know, like I mentioned was in business school. So we really gravitated towards very different parts of the business. And that has been extremely helpful for the success of our partnership and the company. So she manages everything from because the brand and the look and feel and sort of the storytelling aspect and the vision, the creative vision for the way the website looks, the way the packaging looks, how our Instagram presence, what our social media presence looks like. And then I'm more of the kind of back end a lot of the operations finance customer experience and people. So I think it's one of those things where we very much complement each other. And I think it's great that we have the areas that we both lean into, but there's no area of the business that she doesn't have her finger on the pulse of and vice versa, which I think it's been great.

David Novak 10:17 

I would imagine being such good friends being in each other's weddings that would bring on its own set of challenges when you're really trying to build a business.

Lindsey Johnson 10:26 

I think it does. It does have its challenges, but in our view, it has more perks than it does challenges. So for us, you know, we know each other really well, which is great, we never really have to sort of guess how someone's going to react to something or what they're thinking or feeling, we can kind of anticipate that. And then the other thing is, we've just learned that we have to be extremely transparent and honest and upfront, we'd like Do not let things fester. If there's a decision being made, that someone doesn't agree with, like we just we've said that we both have the best intentions, right? We both have the same vision, both of our goal is for this company to be a massive success. And so when you kind of remind yourself, hey, we both have the best interests in the same interest at heart here. It makes those conversations a lot easier.

David Novak 11:13 

So you get united behind this idea of solving this problem in the towel category. How'd you to go about building your know how on towels?

Lindsey Johnson 11:23 

It was a long process. So the first thing we did was just kind of from a consumer standpoint said hey, I'm a consumer, what was it about the towels that Liz didn't like? And what did she wish that they were like, and I went through that same process? So you know, ordering towels from truly dozens of competitors out there and saying, Okay, is there a towel out there that kind of fulfills the promise of being super absorbent, super soft, you know, lightweight, but not but substantial enough that it still felt luxurious, durable enough that it lasted after you know, dozens of washes not falling apart after two washes, kept the soft feel throughout that time. And so we ordered all these towels went through the process and came to say, Okay, this towel really you know, fulfills the problem of you know, softens it has a great hand feel, but it's not super absorbent. This towel over here is absorbent, but it's not soft, or whatever it was. And once we had sort of narrowed down what we thought I actually took my business school Christmas break or winter break rather, and went to a textile show in Frankfurt, Germany, where there were 80,000 Plus vendors, from all over the world. And I came with two huge suitcases of all the towels that I had tried and labeled what I liked what I didn't like, and basically went vendor to vendor saying, Here's what I want you to make for me, can you make this and through those conversations over the course of I guess I was there for three days, I learned an immense amount. And sometimes I had to act like I knew more than I did at the time to get them to take me seriously. But you know, ended up leaving that experience saying okay, like what we're actually after is quite difficult to do. But it didn't yet exist. And that again was kind of exciting to me that no one else was doing what we were going to do with the product. And that was sort of step one. And then from there once we found a manufacturer who was actually willing to take a chance on two girls and an idea who had like no financial backing and no company name or anything. We spent the next six months sampling with them. And so coming up with, we know how can we actually bring this product to life. So it was definitely a trial by fire learning.

David Novak 13:35 

You know, most products have a real origin in terms of their fabric or their essence what's what's your special origin. So

Lindsey Johnson 13:42 

our special sauce, really so I'll say this, having the best materials these days is sort of table stakes. So having 100% long staple organic OekoTex certified cotton. That's table stakes. And quite frankly, there's no monopoly on that, you know, a lot of people can have access to the same great materials, our secret sauce comes down to weight the way those materials are actually spun into yarn. So we take our raw cotton and we spin it into yarn through Japanese, it's actually done in Japan. It's a Japanese patented technology that infuses air into every single yarn as that yarn is spun. And that is what makes our towels. The way the air pockets work is that they are basically making the towel equal parts absorbent and soft. So the air pocket is what captures the water when you use it and then every time you wash it, they expand making it softer and fluffier over time, and that's basically the real kind of ingenuity behind the product itself. And then we of course added on several things that are specific to easy which are rounded corners for more aesthetically appealing look a hook that makes it super functional. We you know pined on the weight of the tall like I said, making sure it was lightweight but substantial enough that it felt luxurious. So there's all these little things that went into the product to make it kind of what it is today.

David Novak 14:58 

You're losing on your webs Like she'd say that you spent an unhealthy amount of time thinking about towels. I think that's obvious. You know, I love that language, though. I love that attitude of this unhealthy amount of time thinking about towels, you know, how does that feed the kind of personality you're trying to build for your brand?

Lindsey Johnson 15:18 

Yeah, I think the Weazy brand, one of the biggest pain points that Liz had was that all of the kind of luxury brands out there felt so archaic and stuffy, and quite frankly, just, you know, unapproachable to her. We're both young, we're you know, in our we're, I'm 30 was 31. And it just felt like everything out there, that was luxury just felt like something that was made for our parents or our parents, parents. And we really wanted to take something that was, you know, luxury, but make it approachable, both from a price point perspective and a brand perspective. So we wanted Weezy to feel like your friend, someone who's sort of like a great hostess who's whose house is always open to you, and whose wine fridge is always open to you and someone who's kind of this new age laid back hostess who's going to give you the best towels, but she's going to do it, you know, not in this like super stuffy kind of unapproachable way. And that's really the the origin of the name Wheezy came from the idea that it's a nickname for the more traditional name Louise or Eloise and Weezy is really meant to be the more modern kind of approachable, fun version of that.

David Novak 16:26 

You said, you started your career in finance, but it seems like you really have a great market. He said, you know, where do you get your marketing savvy,

Lindsey Johnson 16:33 

I mean, I would just say that I'm a super consumer, if I'm totally honest, I am like, you know, constantly checking out new brands and shopping in every category under the sun, like I just love kind of seeing what's out there and comparing products to one another. So I feel like just being an avid consumer, which I can say probably many females can relate to males as well. But I would say that I just I'm very hyper aware of what's out there and how I'm being marketed to. So it's, I think it's sort of something you can't necessarily learn, like marketing is kind of like, there's of course, many classes I took at business school and undergrad that were helpful, but I think it's just kind of an innate thing. Like, either you, you pick up on that stuff naturally or you don't.

David Novak 17:16 

You know, it's really interesting, because you talked about pain points. And the problem with towels and seeing that every entrepreneur I talked to Lindsay understands the importance of finding the that the most important problem that occurs most frequently in any category they're trying to disrupt. It seems like you you got to that you got to it intuitively.

Lindsey Johnson 17:36 

Yeah, absolutely. I think for us like that defining the problem piece was so important before you can actually try to understand if you can be the person to provide the solution. So we spent so much time, like I said, with customers and just interviewing people, I mean, we had friends, I think our friends were about to kill us because we truly would send towels and have them, sample them and then take a survey and then have a phone call about it. And then we blind surveyed tons of consumers and paid for different panels to get feedback. And I think all of that upfront research helped us distill the problem, which was that there was no one brand on the market who was selling a towel at an affordable price point that was equal parts soft and absorbent. And that was just sort of like the bare minimum problem. And then there's a million things we've done in addition to that, which is, you know, online, easy customization and had the great customer experience and the brand you've talked about. So there's a lot that went into it. For sure. Yeah.

David Novak 18:37 

Well, that's great. It looks pretty simple now, but I know a lot went into it, as you said, you're obviously a student of what's going on in the consumer world. So you had to go to school, I'm sure on other e commerce businesses and and when you did that, what did you conclude after taking a look at what everybody else was doing?

Lindsey Johnson 18:55 

Um, I think I so I love like the consumer space, as I mentioned, and I think I spent a lot of time talking to founders, both in the home space and and outside of the home space. But I think what I've learned is that there are so many opportunities out there. And this market in particular, I feel strongly is not a winner take all market. I think that consumers, there's a lot of different types of consumers out there. And we might not be the choice for everyone. But I think we recognized a space which was, you know, a hole in the market in terms of the problem we are solving and the product we've already talked about, but also within the brand. And I think there is just ample opportunity out there and to find sort of a niche in any space. And I think it's just goes back to making sure you really know who your customer is and you know how to talk to them and being very, very targeted and specific in that way. So I think it's just it's the consumer. I'd say landscape is definitely just one you have to remind yourself it's not a winner. Take all market in many categories.

David Novak 20:02 

It also sounds like you're saying that, you know, when you look at ecommerce that no, no playbook is the same. Yeah, totally find your own way.

Lindsey Johnson 20:08 

I think that's something I asked so many founders, I think it's something that as I've gotten a little bit older, and you know, the buds past at least has been around, I've gotten more confident in my own intuition. I think at the beginning of all this, it was really easy for me to, you know, call up other founders or VC investors or who, you know, anyone who had had a successful business career and said, You know, I, what do you think about this? What, you know, can I get your stamp of approval on this, or I have this problem, do you think I should do X or Y, and what I've come to learn is that everyone has an opinion. And that's great, because I'm asking for it. And I want to use that opinion as an input. And I think it's my job to take all of those inputs, sift through them, and then make the right decision for Weezy. And, and no company is the same. I think that it's, again, being a first time founder, it's tempting to sort of take someone else's success as a playbook. And I made that mistake at the beginning, honestly, you know, with a couple of decisions, just saying like, Okay, well, they did this, and this, you know, marketing messaging worked for them, or this was the marketing channel that worked for them. So let's just do that. And that's just not how business works. I think every company is very unique. And no one knows the company better than then Liz and I. So we had to learn to sort of sift through all that noise and make the decision that's best for us.

David Novak 21:29 

You know, innovation is something that everybody talks about, and you obviously innovated to break through in the towel category. So, you know, but when you think about, you know, how you've migrated, and how you look at innovation, as you go forward? What's your process for innovation? And what innovation are you most proud of?

Lindsey Johnson 21:47 

Oh, wow, that's a good question. I have to admit, I'm really not the most creative person and Liz is sort of my creative, my creative go to, and I think that's not to, you know, sell myself short in any way. But I think it's the way that our innovation works at Weezy is that we really work together on any kind of new initiatives. And I would say Liz is full of ideas. And the way that I sort of operate is helping kind of talk through and work through all of the incredible ideas coming out of Liz, and the deciding which ones to prioritize, and how to sort of, then attack those ideas and bring them to reality. And I think that that's just something that it kind of goes back to surrounding yourself with the people who have strengths that where you have weaknesses. So for me, I wouldn't necessarily say I'm personally the most innovative person, like I said, Liz was the one who even came up with the idea for this company. But what I've come to, to learn is to see through all of the ideas that are coming out of her and basically help her you know, and I work together to prioritize those and then figure out how to attack them. In terms of specific innovations, I think, like, you know, the product itself was was a huge mountain to climb. And I'm so proud of where we ended up, I think in terms of the way we've approached, thinking through the trade off of growth and profitability is, you know, surprisingly sort of unique. So I think in the direct to consumer space, particularly in New York City, a lot of companies here, you know, raise a lot of venture capital money, and they're kind of going after growth for growth's sake, or growth at all costs, rather, and sort of they forget about the profitability side, which I think gets them into a lot of trouble down the road. And we took an approach and said, hey, you know what, we're going to focus on profitability on day one, and that's going to be sort of our North Star. And so we've made a lot of decisions with that in mind, and I think, well, that shouldn't be innovative, because every business I think exists to make money. Surprisingly, in the New York community, it was definitely something that we've had a lot of kind of raised eyebrows when we said you actually were no, we're not interested in raising venture capital. And here's why.

David Novak 23:56 

Yeah, so it sounds to me, like you've had to say no to a lot of things. But one of the things that I noticed on your website, again, is that you have, and I thought, This is what you would say, because I I'm not that close to your product line. But I was really intrigued by the idea of these, those stain towels,

Lindsey Johnson 24:12 

oh, the makeup. From a product standpoint. I think that again, I have to credit Liz with that idea. But it's one it's something that for us, it was sort of a no brainer. When we once we decided that we were only going to be selling white towels. And you know, most companies out there and tell you that's like just a horrible idea. From a merchandising perspective. You want colors, you want options, and not everyone wants white and you're excluding a customer type. By doing that. We felt very strongly from an aesthetic and a brand perspective, that was the right play for us. But being women who both wear makeup, it just felt like you know, we were doing a total disservice to all of our friends out there that we're going to buy these towels and wipe their makeup all over them and then they're going to be ruined. And that was going to be on us for only providing them a white towels and an option. So for us, that was sort of a no brainer. Like, if we're going to sell only white towels, we have to also then sell a solution to the makeup stain towel problem that happens. I think it's sort of plagued all of our friends and, and quite frankly, I grew up with my mom yelling at me all through middle school in high school saying, you know, you're ruining my nice towels. So the makeup towels we sell or do you Navy, and they have little islands on them. They say stay in me. So those have been certainly a best seller.

David Novak 25:32 

Lindsey, it seems like you're you and Liz are really keen on on tapping into creating this emotional connection with towels, which almost sounds kind of funny even saying, you even compare towels to to art, you know, is that wishful thinking? I mean, I know you love your towel. Yeah, the consumers see it that way.

Lindsey Johnson 25:53 

I think it was the insight there with that, I think twofold. One is that when you are spending so much time, either using a product or looking at a product, so if you're not using the towel, typically it's hung up in your bathroom, it should be something that you love, and it should be something that, you know, really brings you joy and happiness. And it shouldn't be just viewed as this utilitarian, commoditized product that is, you know, a product that drives you off, we felt that it could be so much more than that. And so, to your point about a towel being art, we really wanted to make it so the consumer could design a towel that was unique to them through the different sort of color choices and embroidery options we have. So you know, actually 70% of our consumers do take advantage of the customization aspect of our product. So they're able to put their name on it or their monogram initials, their address, whatever it might be in a 15 different thread colors and 10 different fonts. And they have all these choices. And I think that's something that's really also set us apart is that we're kind of delivering this not only a towel, that's a fantastic quality towel, like we've talked about. But it's also something that's going to be pretty to look at in your bathroom, which is all the time that you spent at home, especially today, it should be something that you're happy about not just kind of you as like I said a commoditized product.

David Novak 27:16 

So is the customization your real competitive advantage. The your own monogrammed towels,

Lindsey Johnson 27:22 

it certainly does set us apart from the competition, particularly in the direct to consumer space of some of the newer businesses. I think that it's it's really hard if I'm totally honest to operationalize a customization operation. And I think every time we would run into challenges as we were setting it up, I would get more and more excited about it. Because once you realize how challenging it is, that just means like someone else is just like less likely to try to attempt it themselves. So despite it being kind of hard, hard to attack, I think it certainly is a competitive advantage for us. So we're able to offer customization totally online, you can see exactly what your tile is gonna look like before you order it. And then we turn it around really quickly. So a lot of times you have to drive your towels in person to a monogram shop, it'll take them a couple of weeks. So we try to kind of take all the pain points out of that,

David Novak 28:14 

as I understand that you've got a Weezy starter kit, which is for bad 1002 handhelds and it goes for 230 bucks. No, that's definitely I would say in the luxury category for a lot of people certainly, who do you How would you describe your target?

Lindsey Johnson 28:30 

Yeah, it certainly is luxury, but what I would say is that it's on the low end of that. So our target market is really, I would say our consumer tends to be female. So we have probably just 95% of our consumers are female, it's definitely someone who cares about the way their home looks. It's definitely something that it's if you're going to monogram or embroider your towels, it's something again, that's gonna bring you joy in your bathroom. So there's a little bit of someone who's I don't want to say the word vain but someone who cares about the way their bathroom looks. And I think it's someone who's definitely has additional income to spend on things like towels. So it is a luxury product. But what we found more and more again, it's not people who are necessarily graduating from the Amazons or the Bed Bath and Beyond it's it's someone who's coming down from a even higher price point towel so someone who's typically buying super luxury products will use us and I read a review and say I can't believe how cheap these towels are. It's insane how affordable these are for what I'm getting. So we do represent serious value despite being a higher price point.

David Novak 29:42 

That's That's fantastic value is always a great thing to add from the consumers vantage point. You know, the Home Goods category you mentioned, you know, it is the fastest growing category on the internet. And it's one thing to have a good idea Lindsey but how did you and Liz decide to buy Reading through the clutter. How? How are you actually getting the word out on these, this great product you've created?

Lindsey Johnson 30:05 

Yeah, marketing is, it's something I spend, you know, 90% of my time thinking about because as a consumer products business, you know, the most important thing is that people know about you. So I think getting, you know, consumer awareness and brand awareness is so important. So in terms of breaking through the clutter, I think day one, what we focused on was really getting pressed. So you mentioned, you know, Fast Company, and Wall Street Journal and Vogue. Now, those relationships took time to cultivate, and that wasn't just them hearing about us. And happenstance, you know, it's hard work to kind of get in front of the right people and present your product and make a pitch to them as to why it's a compelling story to write about. So press was something was kind of our number one thing we focused on before launch. And then since we've launched, it's a, it's really been twofold. One is relying on our customers to be our best brand ambassador, so them kind of organically telling their friends and family and gifting our product. And the second one is the paid channel. So today, we do rely heavily on online marketing. So things such as Facebook and Google.

David Novak 31:13 

Now, you mentioned a little bit earlier, you know, online business today, you don't have brick and mortar, retail, is that something you see in your future?

Lindsey Johnson 31:22 

I do? I definitely do. I think that brick and mortar gives you the ability to sort of bring the brand we've talked about already to life, in person, it gives you the chance for the customer to kind of, you know, see Weezy in the flesh and kind of look the look and feel in the personality of the brand. But also, you know, actually experience the product in person, I think towels are something that, you know, you might want to touch and feel, you might want to understand what it's gonna look like or see the color in person. So I think giving consumers that opportunity is something we definitely want to do. And I think there's a lot of fun stuff we can use that space for besides just selling products, you know, we can have events, we can connect with our customers in person and really kind of bring the whole story to life. You know, Lindsay, we

David Novak 32:13 

were talking earlier, you jumped right into this business without any real management experience, you now have almost 30 employees, you're growing fast. You know, what are you learning about yourself as a leader?

Lindsey Johnson 32:26 

I've learned so much. I think that I've learned that I really value transparency. So I think that's something I've learned, I think openness, a lot of people that work at Weezy have told me it's like so refreshing that, you know, I'm kind of always available. And I always like to tap chat things through, I want to be their biggest advocate. I think we kind of think of ourselves as a pretty flat organization. And that's something that having grown up in my career rather in a very bureaucratic setting that I was kind of surprised to see that I am much better at a flat organization rather than something where there's a lot of hierarchy. And I've also learned that I mentioned oil, but sort of trust but verify I'm a very data driven person. And so I asked a lot of questions. I just I'm the constant sort of student, like I love to learn what's going on and kind of learn from everyone around me. And I think we've just I think we've put together just a fantastic team. And I think I've learned now being in this position, because I've truly never managed people before. And I think I've now realized just how important people management is. And I think back to the times when I had those great mentors and great bosses and how that affected my performance. And I want to be able to do that for our team. So it's definitely a lot of learning on the job. But it's it's been an incredible experience.

David Novak 33:50 

Well, you probably have a lot of people that are learning your brand learning the business? And are you able to turn that lack of experience into into an advantage or

Lindsey Johnson 34:02 

I think it's absolutely an advantage? I think it's Look, no one on our team has come from a, you know, even a home, either a home brand or even ecommerce company. I mean, we have people coming from accounting backgrounds to, you know, consultants to someone worked at a bakery. I mean, we have people from all over. And I think that's absolutely worked to our advantage because we're talking every problem again, that's unique, too easy. So it's not that we have someone coming in and saying, Hey, this is what worked at my old job. And here's how we need to do this. Instead. It's like, hey, let's attack this problem and new and kind of come up with different potential solutions. And there's a lot of quick trial and error. We don't get one to any one solution. We try a ton of different things until we see what works and we're super nimble and that way, I think because none of us have ever done it before. That's the only way we can learn. It's just by trying.

David Novak 34:59 

Have you gone About codifying the behaviors that you want your culture to be,

Lindsey Johnson 35:03 

we have, we've just now started to sort of, I think culture for us, it was definitely some it sort of evolved naturally. And now that we're all working remotely, it's, it's more important than ever, to sort of be very deliberate about it. And I think at the beginning, it was, quite frankly, just a time thing, you know, things were moving so quickly, we didn't really have at the time, we didn't sit down and say, here's what we want from our culture. But I think now that we've had sort of more people on the team, and we have a little bit more time to sort of dig in, we've now said, This is what's important, which is, like I said, transparency is super important. We're all very open, we're all very available, we communicate nonstop, with one another. I think just making sure we're all acting as a team, and everyone sort of has each other's backs, which has been great. During the COVID crisis, we've been doing these virtual happy hours and virtual check in just to make sure we're kind of all still working together as a team. I think all that stuff, again, kind of is one of the big reasons why we've been successful. It's just is the people that we have on the team.

David Novak 36:07 

What has been your biggest management challenge so far? Lindsay?

Lindsey Johnson 36:11 

I think I'm, like I said, I'm very transparent. So I'm constantly wanting to know how people are feeling and how they're doing and kind of like asking a ton of questions. But not everyone wants to be managed in that way. Right? Not everyone wants like, like, I don't want to be a micromanager. Right. So I think just learning that the style that I have is not the style that's going to work best for everyone on the team. So kind of having to learn that each person is different. And each person wants a different level of involvement from you and a different level of support from you. And kind of like, how do I adapt? You know, my style for each person I'm working with? And I think just and same thing is like, how much coaching does someone want versus not and you know, kind of like in different areas. And so I think it's just kind of learning, everyone is different and kind of adapting your style accordingly.

David Novak 37:09 

Lindsay, I first met you and we were to some business function, I forget exactly what it was. But I was like, blown away. I mean, you were you know, you're you're wicked smart. You're really articulate, you're passionate. How do you keep from overwhelming the people that work for you? And, and and how do you make sure that you get healthy debate so that you can really make healthy decisions?

Lindsey Johnson 37:29 

Yeah. I appreciate the compliments. It's a good question. I think I definitely have an intensity about me that I didn't really recognize before being in the position that I'm in today. And I think it could certainly overwhelm, folks. And I think that people know that I do have a high bar. Right. I think that I expect high attention to detail and expect people to sort of think things through before they present ideas. But at the same time, I want people to know that, you know, we encourage, like you said, sort of healthy debate. So we a lot of times, you know, people will come to us and say to loser I or whoever and say, here's the problem, you know, here's what's going on, like let me know what you think. And like the way that I sort of challenge back is like, well, let me know what you think like, you know, you're the one who's tackling the problem you I trust you. And so kind of making sure people know that they were hired because we trust them, and reminding them that I've never done this before. So a lot of times, you know, they come to me and say what do you think it's like, well, I want to know what you think. And then we can talk about it. Because like I said, this is my first time running a company. This is my first time managing people. So I'm learning every day as well, just kind of having that humility to remind people like we're all in this together. And we all have the same goals. Let's just make sure we can like talk it out, I think is so important. And it's it really empowers people. I think I actually recently was chatting with two people that I manage, and was asking them about my leadership style as I was thinking for this podcast, and both of them said, you know, I feel very empowered by you. Because constantly you're asking me what I think and reminding me that, you know, they often have the right answer and they just need the encouragement from from me. So that's been something I've definitely learned.

David Novak 39:19 

Fantastic. You know, you're hiring people you really proud of the people that you've hired. What's the single most important trait that you look for when you're hiring someone?

Lindsey Johnson 39:28 

I'd have to say grit and just hard work drive. Someone who just has that passion to kind of move the ball forward. I think being in a position that we are at Weezy things are changing all the time, and it's very fast paced environment and we have to be super flexible and nimble. And I think if you have someone who's kind of looking to, you know, do the bare minimum or just kind of like, you know, have come to sort of like a standard nine to five job. That's like, that's not really what we we have going on today because everything is changing so quickly. So I think just someone who has that innate passion and drive is so important. And again, like the resume doesn't matter to me as much like I don't really care what people have done before. I just care that they've done it, you know, with enthusiasm and passion. And they're hard workers. Because if you don't care about what you're doing, if you're not passionate about what we're selling, or kind of our vision, like you just won't be happy here. Right. So I think that's something that's been so important for us and every hire we've made.

David Novak 40:38 

So Linda, you were coming up the finance track, you were on a fast track there. Now you've got this company you're building, you know, so you've obviously experienced a lot of success very early on in your life. Do you have an epic fail yet?

Lindsey Johnson 40:52 

God? Man, I mean, I wouldn't say there's been like an epic fail. But there's been a lot of little failures. I feel like I haven't been in a position yet to have an epic failure. I know. It's coming. One day soon. It is. But there's just been a it's a lot of little failures, right. I think there's a lot of bad decisions that have, you know, that are made. And I think I don't they don't bother me, I think it's the best way to learn. Every bad decision that, you know, in retrospect, wasn't the right one has taught me for the next time going forward. And I think that's something else we like, tell our team all the time, which is like, don't be afraid to fail. I think we try stuff all the time. That's whether it be like a new marketing channel or a partnership or changing the product in some way or negotiating with that. The least I mentioned, there's been so many times where I've like God, like, shoot, I shouldn't have said that. Or I did that the wrong way. And every time it's like, Yeah, that sucks. But now I won't do it again. Right. And I think that's just sort of the environment we've created at Wheezy. It's like giving people enough rope to make mistakes, for sure.

David Novak 42:04 

That's great. You know, this is really a bit of a fun conversation. For me. One of the things I like to do is I like to have a lightning round q&a. Oh, god, are you ready for this?

Lindsey Johnson 42:12 

I don't know. All right.

David Novak 42:15 

The three the three words that best describe you,

Lindsey Johnson 42:19 

I would say driven. So social, and probably hard working.

David Novak 42:32 

If you could trade places with one person for a day, who would it be and why?

Lindsey Johnson 42:38 

Wow.

You've stumped me. There's, it's it's probably going to be LIS my co founder, which I know might be a weird answer. We talked a lot about her but we're so different and sometimes I always joke with her I'd love to get inside of her brain. It operates and operates so differently than mine.

David Novak 43:04 

That's an it's a great you know, I always say you know, when you bring two people together or team together, you put them in a blender. They come up with a super milkshake it sounds like you two are that super milkshake, which is terrific. You know, you know what's something about you that few people know

Lindsey Johnson 43:20 

i would say i I'm definitely get like self conscious. I think a lot of people view me as someone who like has thinks they have all the answers and is very confident and I I'm still learning and I definitely every day. I'm nervous that I'm making the wrong decisions. And while I might exude confidence on the inside, I'm definitely freaking out.

David Novak 43:44 

Do you have any hidden talents? Lindsey

Lindsey Johnson 43:46 

hidden talents? God, unfortunately I don't I'm pretty I'm pretty boring in that category.

David Novak 43:53 

If you could get advice from one leader to help you grow your business today, who would it be and why?

Lindsey Johnson 43:58 

Um, I would have to say Sara Blakely. She's someone that I've looked up to as a female entrepreneur who, you know, over 20 years ago kind of created an entirely new category and has built an empire and she did it, you know, totally on her own. And I think that's someone that's really sort of inspired me. And someone I really look up to him and would love to pick her brain, towel bar or hook. I'm a hook girl.

David Novak 44:32 

As I'm sure you know, I got that last question by checking out your blog and yes, and your interviews with what you call the Weezy. Hype girl. Yes. What's a Wheezy? Hi.

Lindsey Johnson 44:42 

All right. So far, the only girls we were hoping for some Weezy hype guys. So maybe you can be be that for us, David, but they're basically brand ambassadors for us. So people who love the product and have been Wheezy customers and we just want to highlight them and tell the rest of our customer base about about the different women that are buying our product. You know, speaking

David Novak 45:01 

of women, I imagine you have mostly women working on your team, how do you look at diversity? Am I wrong and assuming that or

Lindsey Johnson 45:11 

you're not wrong. So we have, it's probably about when you consider that kind of the entire team, which includes the fulfillment, as well as the corporate team, I would have to guess it's probably 70%, female, maybe a little bit less than that. I think for us diversity, we've always just looked for the best candidates. And you know, it's funny, we've noticed some roles, we'll get interest from only only women and some roles will get a great mix of women and men. And we, I think, for us, one problem we face in terms of diversity is that because our consumers are mostly women, mostly women know about us, right? So when we're targeting with our marketing, a lot of women know about us, and not a lot of men know about us. So when we are hiring for people, we do see a disproportionate amount of women applying because they just have heard of the brand before. So that's something I do think a lot about, because I do want a diverse team. And I think we certainly are on our way to building that. But it's it's funny, some roles will get literally like 400 applicants, and it's all women. It's crazy.

David Novak 46:17 

You know, Lindsey, you're we're about to wrap this up. But what would be three bits of advice you'd give leaders and entrepreneurs based on the journey you've taken so far.

Lindsey Johnson 46:25 

The first is to trust your gut. I know it sounds like, you know, you hear that from everyone. But until you actually experience it for yourself, which I've now learned, it's just it's so important. You don't no one knows the answer better than you. You can take advice from everyone. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you have to trust your gut. I think the second thing is is don't be afraid to not know the answer. I think like I said, it's great to exude confidence. But at the same time, you're not expected to know everything, I'm not going to be the best at everything and reminding yourself that you can ask questions, and you can surround yourself with the people who do have the answer to balance out your your weaknesses, which is exactly what I think Liz and I have done in our partnership. And the last thing I would say is, is probably don't, don't underestimate the power of kind of determination. And I think, you know, even if something is difficult or hard, it's it's often more worthwhile than it would be if it was easy, right? If you tackle these hard challenges, like setting up the customization operation, which I had no idea what I was doing. I mean, it kind of went, honestly, it was one of the hardest things we've done in the history of the business. But I came out on the other side, having learned so much about myself and about this new kind of subject field. So it was difficult, but don't underestimate your determination.

David Novak 47:45 

Well, that determination led to a brand that now has a built in competitive advantage that makes it harder for people to copy. So that's a great outcome. You know, I'm going to wrap this up with one final question here. You know, and I want to go back to the beginning, tell us a story about your upbringing, that will tell us the most about what kind of leader you are today.

Lindsey Johnson 48:07 

I would say, you know, my upbringing, I was, I had a very fortunate upbringing. And I think my dad worked his butt off. Throughout my entire childhood, I have two older brothers. One is almost eight years older than me and the others about five years older than me. So I'm the baby of the family. But because they were a lot older, and my dad was working really hard, we moved around the country a lot. And both of my brothers went off to boarding school to kind of give them that stability as our family was making a lot of moves, which, you know, led me to be, you know, home, sort of as an only child, right, as I was growing up. And I think just this I was able to learn independence. I think, of course, I have like an incredible support system in my family. And I'm so fortunate, but I think I learned independence from an early age, just you know, making sure that I was on time and I had my homework prepared. And my mom always joked that other moms would say, oh, gosh, like, you know, they had the science project coming up. Like we've been working on it all night, my mom would say, like what science project, I was just very independent, and sort of I didn't, you know, my parents weren't holding my hand every step of the way. And I think that was, you know, by design, and I'm very fortunate for that. So I think just having that independence and competence to do what we've done, I probably wouldn't ever have taken the risk of starting my own company. Had that not been part of my upbringing.

David Novak 49:30 

Well, Lindsey, you are off to a great start. You know, it's so exciting to see that independence really comes through and I want to thank you for taking the time to have this conversation with me and just wish you all the best. You know, the one great thing I know you're giving back to your family is they have to all have some really wonderful towels.

Lindsey Johnson 49:50 

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

David Novak 50:05 

I'll tell you what, I always get so excited when I can talk to a young person who's building a brand and making big things happen. And Lindsey Johnson is doing just that. And one of the things I really appreciated about Lindsey is that Sure, she's passionate about what she's doing. She obviously has a zeal for attacking her business. But she makes it more than just passion. She makes it substantive as well. She's learning everything you can possibly learn about our category, her product, so that she can build a winning business model. Lindsay shows us that we need to combine passion with substance. Now I think a lot of leaders tend to lean in on one and kind of neglect the other. So this week, as part of your weekly personal development plan, I want you to think about this. Are there opportunities for you to really up the ante on your passion to create more energy around a big challenge you're facing? Or do you see a chance to wait into the substance of a problem to really dig into the details and specifics of your category, just like Lindsey did, it's not only possible to have passion and substance, I'd say it's critical that you have both. And Lindsey teaches us that being able to do both is a huge advantage if we want to become the very best leader we can be. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is the great leaders pair passion with substance. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple in each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be