David Novak 0:04 

Hey, everybody, welcome to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Now, listen, we all know, in any organization, there's always some kind of chaos. It's just the way the world works. But leaders don't just face chaos. They're defined by how they handle it. And that's why I can't wait for you to hear from today's guests. Maury Fontan, as she's the founder of a 22 group, and you'll hear the inside scoop on how she came to that name later. But she's helping companies and leaders reconnect with their higher purpose to grow their businesses. Now, if you're the type who hears that and thinks it sounds a little woowoo, or airy fairy, or whatever you want to call it, well just hang on and keep listening more, he actually shares a lot of hard evidence that without a higher sense of purpose, all that chaos can lead to lower productivity, and higher turnover, and burnout and all kinds of bad stuff. But leaders and companies who actually dig in and connect with a bigger set of values and purpose, they have a huge advantage. They're more confident, they're more clear, they're more satisfied at work. And no matter what kind of chaos or crisis they face, they're ready to go. So listen in and discover for yourself, how you can tame the chaos with a higher purpose. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. Maury Fontan is

you know more, I want to get to how you got to where you are. But first, tell us what you see as your higher purpose?

Mory Fontanez 1:56 

You know, it's a great question. And it's a lifelong journey, as I say to all of my coaching clients, but I really believe that I've been a truth seeker my whole life. And so for me, my higher purpose is helping others, especially those in a leadership position, get to the truth about who they are, what their purpose is, and how they can live and act in accordance with that purpose every day.

David Novak 2:22 

Well, you certainly got a noble cause for your work. You know, I know you're the founder and CEO of a 22. But you've positioned yourself as I understand it as the head purpose coach in the company, and I've never heard of a head purpose coach before. Tell us tell us how you go about it. Yeah, absolutely.

Mory Fontanez 2:39 

You know, it's really about finding out with our clients there, why? What is their reason for existing and their reason for being in the role that they're in. And their reason for wanting to be a leader to begin with, and helping them uncover almost like we are excavating clues. As to who they really are, I think that my hypothesis around where we get lost in leadership today is that we lose ourselves, we lose our compass, and we lose our sense of, you know, our own direction and purpose. And so as a result, we're seeing companies and brands that also then act without a purpose. And that's no longer acceptable to to customers, they want to engage with purposeful brands and purposeful leaders. So our process is really about digging in understanding the executive and their challenges, healing some old triggers and unhelpful stories that they tell themselves, which we all do, so that we can rewire their brain to be more aligned with their purpose, and so that they can make decisions from a place of clarity and inspiration, and teach their teams how to also be purposeful so that the brand itself can live its purpose every day.

David Novak 3:56 

You know, that really sounds, you know, sounds great, but it also sounds a little soft, you know, what do you think is the big benefit of your leadership method?

Mory Fontanez 4:04 

Well, there's so many things, the number one thing is that the workforce leaves companies and executives and managers that they don't believe in. So the number one benefit we're seeing is that we're developing more emotionally intelligent leaders who can connect better to their workforce, and therefore, they build a workforce that's more loyal number one, but to more productive. A lot of studies have shown Harvard Business Review just did one that when the workforce doesn't trust, its leadership or the decision making of its leaders, they are less motivated and therefore they're less productive. So the second benefit is productivity when a leader is clear on their purpose, and the brand is clear on its purpose, and everyone's marching to a the same drumbeat and to a direction that makes sense. We're noticing that productivity is increased and that morale is going up. And then lastly, when that happens within an organization, the customer can't help but to feel that so the connection to the customer becomes better your marketing becomes clearer, because now you're marketing from a place of purpose. And now that customers are asking for business to get involved in making their life better, brands are able to respond from a more authentic place because they're doing the work to understand themselves better and the customer notices.

David Novak 5:20 

Let me get to real specific, you know, how would you think doing what you call, you know, connecting with yourself, can help a leader today manage through all the change that's happening with COVID? 19?

Mory Fontanez 5:35 

Yeah, we are doing a lot of that work right now. And I'll tell you, it's because external chaos takes the internal chaos we have, and highlights it even more. So you know, the benefit that we're seeing of this work right now is that when you can't control outside circumstances, and you have stories that you've been telling yourself all throughout your life, that are not helpful, you are making those circumstances even worse inside of your company. But if you're able to reconnect with yourself and your true skills and your true purpose, you're able to be the calm in the midst of the storm. And that is what's necessary, right now, for business to make its way through one, you need to be able to calm down your workforce, because they're dealing with uncertainty, and that is uncomfortable at the very best. And secondly, you need to make decisions pretty quickly. And so we want to reconnect you to a place where you can make those decisions, again, from a place of clarity and purpose and intuition quickly. So the business can adapt to our new normal, instead of being paralyzed by the anxiety or the fear or the you know, quick succession of changes that are coming in,

David Novak 6:49 

not all of our listeners are going to be able to, you know, to have someone like you help them but can you have just a few bits of advice you'd give people to kind of work through their issues so that they can, you know, be a good self coach?

Mory Fontanez 7:02 

Absolutely. I always say it's kind of a three step strategy. If you want to try to address this yourself. The first is self awareness, really sit with yourself and try to understand in the environment or the dynamic I'm in today as a leader? How am I helping to make things better? And what are some of my behaviors or habits or actions that are making the situation worse? So really start from that sense of understanding yourself. The second, then is get a true understanding of what's happening with your workforce, I cannot tell you enough, that I will ask executives when they come in with a crisis, okay, well, how does your workforce feel, and either they won't know, or what they think they know is so far from the truth. So really take an effort to build that bridge with your workforce and understand what it is that they are feeling and that they need. And that's called really having empathy. And then the third is from that heightened level of awareness about yourself and your workforce, really think about your customer, what do they need from us today, given the current reality of their lives, that maybe they didn't need before the pandemic or all of the other things that are happening in our in our world, and come to a place of empathy with your customer? That really comes from developing this ability to be emotionally intelligent and connected?

David Novak 8:20 

No, that makes a lot of sense, you know, and, and every leader in the in the, in the world today seems is faced with the challenge of creating a more equitable, more diverse and more inclusive environment. How are you going about it in your own company? And what advice do you have to offer

Mory Fontanez 8:38 

two things? First, we're looking at it for ourselves and just the consultants we bring on? And are we bringing in a diverse enough perspective and experience set? Or are we resting on our laurels in our comfort zone of you know, I come from the agency world. So there are certain types of people I always worked with, that I just naturally was magnetized towards. And so for me, as the leader of 822 group, it's been about thinking about, well, what are some different skill sets or different experiences that I haven't even thought about that I need to open my mind to. And then the second way we're involved is we're helping a lot of our clients with diversity and empowerment and inclusion and what to do around that space. And you know, one of the things that I always say is, it's not just about checking a box. It's about integration and empowerment. So for us, it's about helping our clients move beyond diversity and inclusion. And think about building the kind of environment where diverse people and perspectives feel comfortable speaking up, because that's where you see the real missed opportunity is when there is a leadership group or a decision making group that is monolithic, that all looks and thinks the same that are making decisions, because then you're not connecting to your diverse customer base. You're making decisions and thinking all in kind of an echo chamber. So what I tell clients right now is I want you to equate diversity with innovation. because it allows you to think differently about the same problem and address new audience segments, because you now have perspectives that might mirror or match there are so many

David Novak 10:11 

companies, they have such good intentions in terms of diversity and inclusion, but then they fall short of really taking action, you know, why is that? And and how can you change that,

Mory Fontanez 10:24 

I really am seeing the diagnosis of that problem being a lack of training. You know, I love partnering with companies that do unconscious bias training, for example, because it's amazing to watch the light bulbs go on of leaders, for how they avoid uncomfortable conversations, how they make assumptions. You know, negative bias is an actual concept that a lot of psychologists teach, which is that we just assume the worst out of from people just naturally. And so learning these biases, and having training available, so that you're building the environment where diversity can flourish is so important. And where I see the mistakes happen, is when you think you're checking a box. So you change your recruiting to hire people that look different. But once they get there, they're not sure how they fit, they don't feel empowered. And so you're not really addressing the diversity issue. So I would say training, which goes back to my theory about self awareness is number one, in building environments where diverse workforce can flourish,

David Novak 11:24 

you know, more, we've talked and, you know, I know you're a big believer in collaboration. Yeah, you know, give us an example of how you would drive that value or that behavior into something actionable in your organization.

Mory Fontanez 11:37 

You know, it's really about getting your leaders together to understand first of all, how they feel about collaboration, and how empowered they feel, to truly bring their honest selves into that collaboration. And so, you know, one thing I would suggest and that we do a lot of but it's, you know, you don't have a coach or a facilitator doing this, you can certainly do as a leader, is bring your leadership team together and take a look at your purpose and your values. And understand what are the behaviors that we exhibit that demonstrate these values and that don't? What is the decision making look like here that embodies the values and that doesn't, and really start to go through that exploration and examination as a leadership team. And once as a leadership team. You have alignment around those things extended, have each leader go out to each of their groups, and teams and departments and have a very similar conversation, starting with purpose and values as the core of the discussion about collaboration and decision making together.

David Novak 12:42 

I'm curious, because, you know, I know you've said that, leaders need to let go of their deed for validation. Yes. Tell us tell us about that. And how you came to that conclusion. That's it. I love that phrase, you know, your ethic, this need for validation. But what do you mean by it all? And how do you make that app?

Mory Fontanez 13:01 

Yeah, I always get asked from people, you know, you're a purpose coach, what's the number one thing that stops people from living their purpose or leading with purpose, and I say validation. And what I mean by that is that we have been trained to look towards others, to look towards the external for a nod or a greenlight, that we're doing something right. And when that is the mechanism, the feedback mechanism that we value, then everything we do is for that pat on the back from someone else. The danger in that is if that someone else does not have the tools, or the ability to think the way that we need them to, or values themselves enough to even be able to give positive feedback, or is dealing with a mountain of issues that you can't understand. They're not in a position to give you what you need. And so that's a lose lose situation, as a leader, especially because you're not able to lead, you're constantly in search of something, someone else is giving you the power in reversing that. And having that validation come from internal means that you are in total control of how you get what you need in order to move forward. And you know, I work with people that I executive coach on on a concept of really being able to connect to your higher self, a higher form of you that is constantly trying to give you information that is for your own good, that sometimes we don't connect with or listen to. And so the need for validation can be solved by building that relationship with your higher self and being able to get the validation from yourself about making decisions and taking actions that you know are right for the vision that you have for your company or your team not needing a pat on the back from someone who might not have the tools to even recognize what you're doing.

David Novak 14:50 

So really understanding what your purpose is gives you the self confidence to let go and and truly help others Yes, and

Mory Fontanez 14:58 

it gives you a compass right we always Need a moment where we can check in with ourselves and understand where we're going and why it gives us a sense of fulfillment around why we exist that I think we need right now, because the world is very chaotic. And the answer to that chaos is stillness within ourselves. And there's a lot of amazing leaders that practice mindfulness, and understand the benefits of meditation. This is just another really important tool, which is purpose, and it creates that internal, you know, GPS system, so that we don't feel lost as often. And we don't need others to show us the way we are in relationship with our purpose in a way that it can do that for us. You know,

David Novak 15:41 

when you talk about concepts like stillness and self validation, you know, letting go of validation? How many how many times you're talking to leaders, and they kind of look at you look at crazy, think they think they're comatose? You know, there's like, what is this? What is she talking about? These are pretty soft concepts to get hard driving business people to buy into,

Mory Fontanez 16:02 

I have to say, I've actually been surprised that, you know, more and more executive understand these concepts, because I think our consciousness is raising to the need for these things. But I also think that, you know, being someone who can do this well is about my being able to use language in the moment with the person that's going to resonate with them. So there might be times that I'm not using these words, but I'm saying the very, you know, a very similar thing in different words that resonate with them in that moment. So it's really about knowing your audience and being able to communicate the same concepts, in words that feel real to them.

David Novak 16:39 

Absolutely. You know, and we're off to a great start with this podcast is really interesting. I'd like to let our listeners really get to know you a little bit better. And I've got a lightning round of q&a. I'd like to take you through real quick. You ready? Yes. Okay, what three words best describe you?

Speaker 1 16:57 

Authentic, empathetic, passionate?

David Novak 17:01 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Mory Fontanez 17:03 

A lack of accountability and others?

David Novak 17:05 

What book has had the biggest impact on your life? And why?

Mory Fontanez 17:09 

Wow, there's one it's called broken open by a woman named Elizabeth lessor. And it's about how difficult times help you grow. And it's taught me a lot about the opportunity that exists in crisis.

David Novak 17:21 

Do you have a favorite quote? Yes, I

Mory Fontanez 17:23 

do. It's by on ace Ninh. And it says, The time comes when the risk to remain tight in a bud is more painful than the risk it takes to blossom.

David Novak 17:34 

Did you ever have one of those moments?

Mory Fontanez 17:36 

I have had those moments repeatedly. Yes, absolutely. In my personal life, and in my professional life, anytime you leave and start your own adventure, that is a massive dive off of a cliff.

David Novak 17:48 

More Do you have any hidden talents?

Mory Fontanez 17:50 

Oh, my goodness. That's a great question. Do I have any hidden talents? I don't think I've ever been asked that before. Wow, I think I'm actually a pretty good chef. And I don't even think I realized it until COVID. And we had to be home and I was cooking constantly.

David Novak 18:05 

Oh, practice makes perfect. Right? That's true. What's something about you that few people would know?

Mory Fontanez 18:10 

Oh, that I can be an introvert, I have a real fear sometimes of, you know, putting myself out there in social situations that I think every time I tell people that it's pretty shocking, because I seem pretty extroverted.

David Novak 18:24 

You know, if you could trade places with with someone for one day, who would it be? And why? Oh, my

Mory Fontanez 18:32 

goodness. Honestly, these days, it's my kid. I'm feeling like that feeling of you know, use, not really understanding or appreciating the freedom you have to be creative and to play and to be in relationship with your real self before people tell you who you need to be.

David Novak 18:52 

I want to go back to one of the things you just said about being an introvert, you have to work through, you know, the courage to put yourself out there. When did you first learn how to do that? Can you tell us a story of when that hit you? And then you got some success from it? And you've been trying to get better at it every day?

Mory Fontanez 19:10 

Yeah, I mean, I listen, I like I said, I work in client services my whole life. So I think I first had to learn that when I would enter a situation where I'm meeting, you know, an executive team of a brand, as someone who sits on the agency side and has to pitch what it is we want to sell them. And so that really became how I learned to get comfortable with it. What I realized though, is that there were other areas in my life where I wouldn't do that. So for example, we live in the suburbs. I'm a mom and I would not reach out to other moms in my community I had, you know, that same fear came up for me in my own personal life, even though I had mastered it in my professional life, because I was hiding behind a certain set of words and language you use, you know, in corporate world that I then had to relearn how to do on the personal side. So I think I have lots of examples of of having to learn and relearn that over and over

David Novak 20:02 

again. Yeah, more Yeah, like a peel the onion back a little more. Tell us about your upbringing.

Mory Fontanez 20:13 

Sure. I actually am the parent of two immigrants from Iran. I was born in New Mexico and raised in Colorado, and being you know, kind of a second generation, Iranian American really grew up in the middle of two cultures grew up in an Iranian household learning a lot about, you know, the importance of our customs and family and deep connection and respecting our heritage. But then, of course, as most children are immigrants will tell you really struggling to make sure that you know, you're able to fit in and that you understand the culture that you're born and growing up in. So I've had a really interesting upbringing, and then moved over to the East Coast. And I finished my education here in the DC area, and have lived in the DC area ever since.

David Novak 21:03 

Now, when did you decide you wanted to go into public relations and and tell us how you got your first job.

Mory Fontanez 21:08 

That's an interesting story. So I thought I wanted to do advertising. And when I went into the University of Maryland, I went in to go through the advertising track. And it was that year that they decided they were removing that track from their course of study. And so in kind of thinking about what it really meant, what did I want to do, and it was really about influencing audiences, I started to look at PR, and I majored in journalism, actually, because I decided that I was going to take the flip route, if I was going to talk to an audience, which was journalists, I was going to understand the way they thought and the way that they wrote. So I did my major in journalism. And in that track, I minored in PR, and I remember opening our first PR one on one textbook and seeing a case study that involves Edelman in there and literally looking at that word and saying I'm going to work there one day. And so when I left college, I went in and interviewed for an internship at Edelman actually. And so my first job out of college was an internship at Edelman, I later left and went to other agencies and came back to Edelman, but it all started with Edelman actually,

David Novak 22:11 

that's great. You know, I know you worked your way up through the ranks to the managing director in charge of global client strategy. And you were really a top leader at Edelman, how hard was it for you to move up the ladder? And what do you think were the keys to your advancement,

Mory Fontanez 22:26 

I came into Edelman through the digital world, they were just building their digital practice. And I came in as a digital strategist having come from a smaller digital marketing agency that worked in the film entertainment space. So I was hired to help build the digital practice. And what was interesting about my time at Edelman is that, you know, in my 12 years that I was there, it was really when social and digital became, you know, the key influencer in any kind of communications or marketing strategy. And so we started to see, you know, the digital team, which was an add on team go from being the side dish to really becoming the main course. And so my kind of career at Edelman, and in terms of getting to that global health strategy was about understanding audience behavior, because from a digital and social standpoint, we had to work so hard to understand what was happening and what was changing so quickly. And so, you know, I think that it was easy in some ways. And it was hard in some ways, we also had the burden of proof internally in the own in our own agency, that, you know, those of us that are digital and social strategists actually understand business strategy and customer strategy on a on a larger scale, and that we aren't just kind of siloed in that digital space. But the easy part was obviously, you know, really, my upbringing in my career has been understanding audience connectivity through that channel. So it made the strategy career an easy leap for me.

David Novak 23:53 

So, you know, with digital and social changing all the time, how do you personally stay up with it?

Mory Fontanez 23:59 

You know, it's a great question. I always say that doctors are the worst patients and I have the same challenges with my own brand, right? When I look at digital and social for 822 group, it's like I don't all of a sudden forget all the things that I've taught other clients, but really to answer your question. It's really about just first and foremost listening to the conversations that are taking place, just having the time and space to value just getting involved in those channels on LinkedIn, and Instagram and Facebook and understanding what the people that you care about care about. And then from there really starting to add your own voice by figuring out what is it that I truly have to add that's not adding to the cacophony, but is truly you know, something that is authentic to me that can help this discussion, and really kind of waiting your way in by doing it slowly and authentically.

David Novak 24:54 

Because it's a story about the biggest problem that you ever solve for a client.

Mory Fontanez 24:58 

You know, I manage the digital crisis team for a long time. And so we had a lot of problems that we solved for clients. Back in the day when bloggers truly had a lot of influence. We had a clothing brand for babies and toddlers, that a blogger was posting photos from customers, what looked to be allergic reaction. And so that turned into a online crisis overnight, right? They thought there was something wrong with the product. And so really getting to actually work with the CEO of that company, and talk to him about what it means to really embrace the blog culture, and connecting the CEO and the blogger together so that they could build a authentic and transparent relationship really helped us navigate around that, because we were able to bring the blogger along the journey of really discovering what was wrong with the product, which actually ended up being an allergic reaction and 2% of children. But we got to show them the journey and be very authentic about the fact that even the company wasn't sure and what did the r&d process look like, and so on, and so forth. So I was eight months pregnant at the time. So it was an interesting feeling for me to be working on something like that and be concerned about my own baby, but also really try to think about it from the perspective of the client and how we could help tell their story.

David Novak 26:18 

So this really did cause it 2% of babies would have a reaction that how did you is expecting mother? How did you feel about that working with your client on this issue?

Mory Fontanez 26:27 

I'll be honest, in the beginning, I remember when it came to my door, I had some concerns about you know, I really wanted to make sure this wasn't us sugarcoating something that was harmful. And so I had to do my own due diligence to understand what was really happening. And when I understood that, truly, the leadership of that company was just as concerned, and that they had already, you know, looked at their supply chain, looked at their ink creator looked at their tag creator, and that they were really doing their due diligence, I felt better about it and was excited to get involved in it, it was almost like solving a mystery, right, really trying to figure out what was truly going on.

David Novak 27:04 

You know, you've obviously spent a lot of time developing strategies for Edelman and your clients. What are the major tips you have for developing a great strategy?

Mory Fontanez 27:13 

You know, I always say that strategy is the intersection of your mission, your unique proposition as a company, and the needs of your customers. And so it really strategy starts by being highly data driven, really understanding what is our customer target, what is it that they need, that they are not able to get from our competitors? And what is it that they are saying and now the multiple channels of communication they have that can give us clues about you know, the way we can deliver our messages to them, to really show them that we're filling that need. But then as I say, the intersection is if you don't have clarity, about your own mission, and nowadays, your values and how you're bringing that product to market in a purpose driven way, then it does not connect even though you do understand your audience. So it's about doing that work upfront, understand the audience but really rediscovering your own mission as a brand and rediscovering you know what your unique differentiator is and sticking to those two things and, and trying not to get distracted by all of the shiny tactics and noise and bells and whistles. But really staying on that roadmap?

David Novak 28:26 

Well, what made you more what made you break away from the pack and become an entrepreneur and launch a 22 group?

Mory Fontanez 28:34 

You know, it was a hard decision. Obviously, having a long standing career in a firm that's as respected as Edelman, it was a hard thing to do. I had a great opportunity in my director of strategy role to work with a lot of Fortune five, hundreds on things that involved change, you know, employee engagement, customer engagement. And what I was finding is that there was a huge gap in what people were talking about, which was there, why, what is the purpose? How do we go back to the purpose. And the other thing that I was finding that I was becoming allergic to was just that chaos, a balance, I always say chaos is inherent in running a business. It is not meant to be a negative term. And I really found that that chaos wasn't being addressed. At its core, the symptoms were being addressed by multiple agencies selling different things. But I was really passionate about getting to the core of what are these challenges? What are the systemic behaviors? Or even external disruptors that are causing this chaos? How do we help companies really dig and rediscover their own truth, their own mission or what I say is rediscover the soul of the company. And then from there from that really true place, go to their mission and values and purpose and build a brand that is being really authentic and very connected to its workforce and its customers at the same time?

David Novak 30:00 

What's behind the name a 22.

Mory Fontanez 30:02 

So I have two stories, I have the fast one. And the longer one, I'll tell you the quick one first, which is that it's my birthday, August 22 is my birthday. But the reason I landed on a 22 is because I actually have a fascination with numerology. And when I was looking at names for the company, I found that actually eight means infinite, and 22 means mastery. And I thought, Oh, how interesting that we're really trying to get our clients to infinite mastery of what they do. So it fit quite well.

David Novak 30:31 

That's great, you know, I understand the core to your methodology is the idea that every every company's values should be a driver of every action, and not just a sign that's up on the wall. So many companies have the laminated values, explain what your thinking is behind this.

Mory Fontanez 30:48 

So my diagnosis of that is that most company values are not actionable. They are statements that maybe were co created with the workforce, maybe not. But they are statements that were created to define behaviors, or maybe even check a box around, we know we need values. So we've got to kind of put these up there. But they often lack the true action oriented terms and words and actions from the leaders to show that those values are alive and well every day. So a lot of the work that we do is not just going in and creating values, but looking at your organization and looking at how the values are spread across the organization and how leaders make decisions based on values, how the workforce is rewarded, or not based on values, how marketing and communications plans and budgets are created around communicating values. And then we come back and say, Look, you know, you do have values, but they're not, you know, aligned along the organization, or people don't understand how to live them every day, or they don't see you as a leader living them. So that's the diagnosis piece, then it's about, okay, these are the three issues. Here's how we can address that. Here's how we can build value driven leaders, let's do you know, some leadership training or here's your marketing team really needs a values filter, let's build a sound marketing strategy that's built around mission and values. But it really is about looking at those values and seeing how they really are actionable every day rather than just oh, these are pretty words that sound nice.

David Novak 32:28 

So you're really talking about making things purposeful versus reactionary? Absolutely, yes. Tell us about one of your your success stories where an organization was truly enhanced by living out their values.

Mory Fontanez 32:42 

You know, we are I always say my comfort zone is in the Fortune 500 space, because that's how I came up in my career. But what we're finding is some really interesting opportunities to help startups and startups that are right after kind of their first or second round of funding, and they now have the time and space to think about how do I really want to build this in a way I understand as a startup, that I've got to be customer oriented, that I have to be purposeful, you know, businesses are understanding that today. But the how is the question mark. So we've just had just wrapped a great engagement, almost a year long engagement with an AV company, that is building autonomous shuttles, who really courageously came to us in the beginning and said, We want to be a values driven culture, we have values, but we don't think our staff understand, you know, what our vision is, and how to live those values. And we went in and through the course of nine months of, you know, co creating with them doing a lot of facilitation and workshopping with the leaders, and then really rolling out an entire new package. We've gotten some really amazing feedback from the workforce, about how inspired they now feel, and how clear they feel about their role in coming in and achieving this great mission. So that's been exciting. The most recent example,

David Novak 34:03 

you recently you spoke on the topic, where you stated that values are the new bottom line. What Why do you think that? That sounds like a lot of people would say it's a really soft, airy fairy kind of stuff. You know, why are values the the intrinsic value the bottom line?

Mory Fontanez 34:22 

I mean, look, I don't think that it's that hard to understand that the market is demanding something different, first of all, through digitization, and through access that, you know, social media has created. The customer really expects to see themselves in your brand. And they also are using their purchase power to tell companies I expect to understand how you're going to help impact the issues I care about a recent study that, you know, the Harvard Business Review did said that 70% of millennials are willing to pay more for a product if they understand the issues that they impact Adelman I helped them. When they did roll out the Trust Barometer and communicate it to my clients. The Edelman Trust Barometer says that trust is on the decline. Year over year major institutions like media outlets, like the CEOs of companies and government, are not trusted. And the person that's most trusted is your coworker and a person like me. So it's not a nice to have to think about values, it is the customer demand. In fact, another really interesting anecdote that I read a few months back is from students from MIT, who were saying at the time that they were embarrassed to say that they had accepted a job at Facebook, when five years before that, that would have been a job you killed for, but because of the way that, you know, now, MBA students and you know, those that are up and coming and talk about millennials, the generations after that are viewing corporations that don't behave in a purposeful values driven way is that they don't want anything to do with them. And therefore, you're losing talent as well. So it's a purchase power issue with customer. And it's a talent issue with those that you really want to recruit

David Novak 36:06 

as a company. You know, this all makes so much sense. So but why do so many companies struggle with developing a culture and developing a higher cause a noble cause for their business?

Mory Fontanez 36:17 

Well, we value the wrong things, we have been trained in a capitalistic market to really look at things like revenue and profit margin. And, you know, those things are important. And I think no one has really clearly made a case for the more we focus on purpose and mission and values, the more revenue we can actually create, the more profit there is in there, for some reason, it's felt like a trade off, number one, number two, I don't think that we've cultivated leaders who value emotional intelligence. And a lot of the things that I focus on when I'm working with leaders and partnering on building visionary leaders is how do we demonstrate EQ in everything that we do? And how do we reward EQ in those that we engage with. And so when you don't have leaders that are operating with eq as their priority, then things like competition, are rewarded. And that creates environments where having a conversation about values feels ridiculous, because you're more focused on the hard numbers. But again, if you go back to the stats we just talked about that's going to become, you know, licensed to operate very soon,

David Novak 37:27 

is I listen to you and know you, it's obvious that you're outspoken, you have a real point of view. You're very, very authentic. You there's no question about that. And I know you're a big proponent of authenticity. You know, why do you think that's so important?

Mory Fontanez 37:44 

I really think that people are seeing through the BS. And I think that when companies specifically right now are jumping on the bandwagon of issues, because they understand that their customers want to see them be involved in issues. If they're not doing it authentically, customers can see through that immediately.

David Novak 38:06 

Was there ever a time when you struggled with your own authenticity?

Mory Fontanez 38:09 

Oh, absolutely. I'll tell you that I struggle with that every day. You know, when I am trying to go into a corporation and talk about mindful leaders, and emotional intelligence and healing chaos, and using words that in my, you know, almost 20 years of corporate agency training sound woowoo and crazy. I questioned that every day. And I wonder if you know, if I really say this thing that I mean, am I going to connect? And is this CEO really going to be able to listen to me and take me seriously. And so I have to challenge myself every day not to use the old agency jargon that I've been trained to use, but to really speak authentically about what it is, I believe, is standing in the way of bigger success.

David Novak 38:54 

Where do you think, you know, tapping into that authenticity and really getting to that point to where you could be yourself? Where do you think that really paid off for you? Is there any story you have where, you know, standing up for what you believed or it really paid off?

Mory Fontanez 39:11 

I think it's been as a leader of teams, there was I had a role at Edelman where I lead the digital practice of the DC office. And that was 90 really smart, talented, creative, and digital strategists. And we were, you know, in a in a transition and my ability to lead them with authenticity and really treat everybody like family because that's the way I felt. People always ask me, What's your leadership superpower and I say love, which is, again, another crazy word to use in corporate America. But when you come in and you treat them that way, that authenticity and directness, allow me to tell them all I expect the same from them. And I expect them to sit there and do the work and have the self awareness to and I have the accountability to try to think through their issues and solve them when If they're co workers and with their partners, and so I hope, and I hear sometimes from some of them that that's the legacy I'd left behind. And that that's the kind of leadership that they crave. Now as they look at other groups, either there or within other organizations, so I get great feedback, I think about the authenticity in my leadership.

David Novak 40:19 

Do you think your superpower of love? Do you think that's been the key to your success? Or what would you say has been the the number one driver of your success?

Mory Fontanez 40:29 

I think it's there's been two, I think, absolutely, the love element is a double edged sword, I think it has allowed me to truly bring my whole human self to every engagement, whether it be personal or business, and I think we don't have enough humanity in business. So I think it's allowed me to connect with clients in a way that maybe they haven't had from other consultants. Because I lead with that love it, obviously, you have to have boundaries, though. And so that was a lesson I had to learn in my career around, you know, not giving too much, and being able to reserve some of that energy. I think the other one is really embracing the concept of intuition and embracing that you have a gut knowing that comes from experience. Absolutely. But then if you just are able to be mindful and present and listen to, there's some guidance, there's a GPS in there. And I really learned to listen to that and not doubt it. You talked

David Novak 41:26 

about earlier that you teach people how to follow their intuition. You know, how would you do that?

Mory Fontanez 41:34 

So I've worked with a lot of leaders on intuition through leadership training. And one of the things we really spend a lot of time on is going back and digging through memories of moments where you just felt like you knew something and really looking at what did that feel like in your body? What did it feel like in the way that you spoke about that topic? Really trying to nail down Cymatics for throughout your life, when you've had a gut feeling about something and you spoke up? What happened when you didn't speak up? What happened? What did it again, what did that feel like? did was you know, did it change the way that your heart rate felt, you know, really trying to have people put circles around? This is what my intuition looks like. Because what I would say is, if you've never seen a zebra before, and it's standing in front of you, you can't name it. And so the first thing that I really want to work on is naming it. This is intuition. And then we work on how to get comfortable making decisions based on your intuition. What does that look like in corporate America where we have to be data and factor then what are some language you can use? How do you play with it? What are safe moments to experiment with it versus times when maybe you save it until you're a little bit more comfortable. So it's really about naming it and then learning how to use it. And then I actually we do a lot of experimenting, go off, do this thing. For these two weeks, we're going to come back, we're going to talk about what that looks like and what tweaks we need to make.

David Novak 42:58 

So what makes your heart rate rise now?

Mory Fontanez 43:01 

Oh, my God owning my own business. I think, you know, being a part of a global agency, where I always say I was like a lazy zoo animal, and I was fed constantly.

David Novak 43:14 

So you have a very different approach to solving problems, that not everybody really follows. And, and I'm sure you have to deal with conflict at times, do you? How do you work through conflict where you're really challenged on this? You know, what tell us about the biggest conflict you had and how you handled it.

Mory Fontanez 43:34 

You know, I think my general view of conflict right now is to get really, really centered with myself. And first and foremost, identify my role in the conflict, and then communicate with self awareness and really talk about first of all, this is what I'm feeling is happening. And here's how I can see, I have contributed to this. And this is what I need from you. And so I think, you know, in the agency space managing clients is conflict driven, right? There's conflict everywhere, when you are managing clients that have really big expectations based on the budget, they're spending. So, you know, I've been in situations with midnight calls from clients in California, you know, in in my past agency days, where I've had to, you know, a conflict has been how do I put up boundaries to this $30 million client? How do we talk through what you think is a priority versus following the strategy? And so what I found is that conflict management for me comes from self awareness, taking accountability, and then empathy. And to me Empathy means just listening without any judgment, because we listen and we're constantly thinking about our rebuttal. That's not empathy. Empathy is what is it that you're saying and how can I identify with the feeling? I don't have to agree with the point of view. But maybe if I I can uncover the feeling behind it, which is fear or insecurity or, you know, whatever it might be, I can relate to that feeling. And then that way we're coming from a common ground and the conflict doesn't feel so divisive anymore.

David Novak 45:12 

You know more, I noticed that you've also been an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. Tell us about that experience and what you learn from it.

Mory Fontanez 45:20 

I love that experience. I think that I am a teacher at heart, I always wanted to be a teacher, actually, when I was younger, so I jumped at the chance to do that. And that experience was really focused on teaching digital strategy and digital crisis management strategy. And it was just really fun. I got to work in the postgraduate department, with graduate students that were getting their master's in communications or marketing, and really allow them to learn from my own experience. So we did a lot of real life, you know, I was still at Edelman at the time. So this is what happened with my client today. What how would we solve this, and we really almost took it into a laboratory. And I was able to teach through real life example, rather than through textbook, and that was really fun, hopefully, for them. But for me,

David Novak 46:08 

second ago, you're telling a story about the client, you had to help them work through the boundaries, basically, this person woke you up in the middle of the night with what he thought was a big priority. That kind of leads me to balance. You know, a lot of people are saying, integrate your whole life, your work your home life, make it all one thing. Well, what's your view on that?

Mory Fontanez 46:29 

It's so funny, I think I have a maybe currently controversial view on it. I don't really believe in work life integration. I think that work life integration could if used the wrong way, be an excuse to not be present in either place, to be at work and not be present in your work life and to be at home and not be present in your home life. So I prefer balance. And I actually wrote a blog post about this, which is why are we so uncomfortable with the term balance? Why are we so uncomfortable turning off that phone at our son's soccer game? What is it that we're afraid of? And can we confront the fear of that, rather than feeling like it's okay to check because he's sitting on the bench? That to me is not addressing the core issue? Again, it looking at the symptom, but the core issue, why do we always have to be on goes to our own truths about something we feel like we're missing out on or some fear we have, and I believe in doing the work to really figure that out. And when you figure that out, you're able to be present in both parts of your life, and then you're able to be more of a quality mother or father or leader, sister, or whatever it is, because you're totally immersed in that experience, you're not partially somewhere else,

David Novak 47:40 

you know, more, you've been widely recognized as one of the top public affairs, public relations leaders in the world, you know, how important you think recognition is in the way you interact with others and lead others?

Mory Fontanez 47:55 

I think recognition is critical. You know, I think from a workforce management standpoint, we don't focus enough on rewards. And when I look at teaching companies about values LED or purpose led decision making, I focus a lot on how can reward and recognition play a big role in underscoring how important being mission oriented and values oriented is to you. So I don't think that we are positive enough. I think that our brains are triggered by negative information, you know, turn on the news, they figured that out. And I think we brought that in internally to corporations and organizations as well, which is like we get triggered by the chaos, we spend so much energy on the nonsense, that if we spent it on really seeing the other person and recognizing them for their contribution, we'd have much happier workplaces. I think I saw a stat that said 51% of employees don't like going to work. That's just depressing. And we're not going to get a lot out of our workforce that way.

David Novak 49:00 

How different is it for eboard being an entrepreneur and a founder of a company versus being a part of a company,

Mory Fontanez 49:06 

oh, my gosh, cut worlds apart, I thought it would actually be a little bit more similar. I think that the freedom that I have is nothing that I've never experienced before, in being able to really guide the direction that this train is headed. And also being able to say no, that's been really critical to me and to my team here, which is that we are you know, our values are real connected and courageous. And what that means is, if we think we can help you we are full force in but we also have learned how to say that's not us or we don't think you should do this. And learning to say no, has been a big learning curve for me. I think, you know, being an employee, obviously, the perks were really amazing opportunities, again, being you know, an employee of a global agency. I got to meet and work With a lot of amazing brands and leaders, and obviously, the security and stability of being a part of an organization that large, is very, very different. But I don't think that I would trade it for this ability to really make a difference and create impact in the way that I'm hoping we do.

David Novak 50:17 

What three bits of advice would you give to aspiring leaders?

Mory Fontanez 50:22 

My first really big thing is really get clear on your own strengths and your challenges. And don't try to cover up your challenges really be open and radically vulnerable, as Brene. Brown says about what is what is it you're good at, I don't think we embrace that enough, we're hard on ourselves. But also what is it that you do need help with. And that's what self awareness is to me. So that's number one. Number two, I always say what creates chaos is lack of accountability. So the second step is really ensuring that there is accountability ingrained across your organization throughout your team, that you're demonstrating accountability as a leader, but that you are doing the hard work of holding other people accountable. And then the third one is bringing your whole self remembering that humanity is what's going to get us through the changes that are coming, and really underscoring that by showing your full self at work every day, and really encouraging others to bring their full selves, you don't leave your children at the door, when you walk in, you are still a parent, you're still a daughter, you're still who you are. And so really embracing that, as a leader, I think creates more inspired and loyal employees and customers.

David Novak 51:46 

Is there any different or additional advice you'd give to a woman or male leader? Basically the same? Or is there?

Mory Fontanez 51:55 

You know, I get that question a lot, especially when I do EQ training. And people always say, Oh, do you find that women have more EQ? And I always say no, I think it totally depends on the personality type of the person. I think the only difference that in advice that I would give women is really trusting yourself. We've really been taught to doubt and second guess our own voice. And it doesn't do anyone any service for us to stay quiet when we know the right answer.

David Novak 52:23 

You know, I wasn't really asking that from just a female perspective is so I also asked him from a male perspective, what would you tell? What would you tell a male the same three things? Or would you add something there?

Mory Fontanez 52:35 

No, I would tell a male the same three things. And I would also tell a male, I think that we're in a really quickly changing environment right now. And sometimes it's scary to be a male leader. And I think, you know, just being able to tell them, It's okay to be a little bit anxious about how to act based on everything that you're hearing, that that fear is okay. And you know, to really back to those three points, get to know yourself, trust yourself, you'll do the right thing.

David Novak 53:05 

You're a big proponent of guidance versus micromanagement. You know, how do you navigate that fine line with people?

Mory Fontanez 53:13 

I think it comes down to trust. I think when I really dig into micromanagers, there is a lack of trust in themselves and then in their teams. So I think it's about cultivating trust, first and foremost, then it's about clarity and roles and responsibility. A lot of times, shockingly, people don't really understand what their responsibilities are, and what done looks like, what does success look like here. So once you've really built that trust, you've clarified those roles and responsibilities. It's about stepping back and giving the space for the person to achieve that mission. And then once the failure or the success has happened, coming back and having a conversation at that point, rather than always trying to anticipate what could go wrong. That's what I think micromanagers are doing. So just give them the space to fail, because that's how they're gonna learn or surprise you. But make sure you establish trust, and they know what done looks like,

David Novak 54:10 

you know, tell us about the leader who you think had the biggest impact in your life?

Mory Fontanez 54:15 

Wow, that's a good question. I have had so many it's really, really hard to pick from there's been leaders at Edelman that have really taught me to trust my own instincts and my own voice. That's been huge. I've had clients that are you know, still my mentors, that are just such brilliant strategist and not afraid. I think the courage that I've seen in leaders, especially with my clients, has been really, really inspiring. I really take pieces and parts of the different leaders I'm inspired by and create a collage of what inspires me but I've had the opportunity to be exposed to and inspired by a lot of leaders and it's always come back to, you know, really being connected to them and just watch Courage and being themselves in action.

David Novak 55:03 

You know, I can ask you a ton of questions, because I'm learning a lot from this this podcast, you know, but you know, I want to wrap this up by just asking you this last one, which is, as you go forward, what what's your unfinished business?

Mory Fontanez 55:16 

Oh, yeah, I really am passionate about getting to a place where business can truly be connected to huge meaningful causes in a new way. And to adopt causes almost like a business unit of their own to truly not look at it as just CSR. But to integrate, you know, really looking at the issues we're facing in the world and take it on as a business problem that they're solving, I think we're getting there. But I'd love to see a 22 group get to a place where we can build a foundation as well, and help to really make these connections and make a huge impact for countries and cities and towns that need true resource and, and all of this brilliant thinking that exists in big corporations to help solve big issues that we have.

David Novak 56:08 

So you mentioned Facebook and the problems that's happened with its employees, what would you do if your Facebook,

Mory Fontanez 56:13 

I think Facebook has to relook at their values? Honestly, I think that, you know, Facebook is obviously so large right now, it is so pervasive in everyone's life, especially, you know, through the acquisitions they've made and adding the various channels that they have, you know, I think that Facebook would really benefit from a moment of pause, to really understand, what is it that we are trying to do in the world? And how are we living these values? And how are we not? And really rating themselves? Honestly, I think, you know, it's really probably hard to be a leader there. And so really teaching mindfulness as leaders, and accepting this concept of humanity, and really reward those things in the leadership of Facebook would help to start to kind of build a bridge back to their original purpose.

David Novak 57:06 

That's great, you know, and I have just the company they should call 22. Well, I thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. You're terrific, lots of great insights. I love your passion for the business that you've created. And you're really focused on growing.

Mory Fontanez 57:24 

Thank you, David. It was so nice chatting with you. I really appreciate the opportunity.

David Novak 57:36 

Gosh, after listening to that, there's no doubt that Maureen has found the true power of being a leader that is connected to her purpose. And you can just tell in this conversation. Maury also knows herself really well. She even knows what her leadership superpower is. It's love. And you know, I didn't think to ask her, but I bet she also knows what her leadership kryptonite is. This week is part of your weekly personal development plan. I want you to think about what your own leadership superpower and kryptonite might be. Here's the thing, you got to be able to answer for yourself. What traits do you have to make a chaotic situation better? What liabilities Do you have that could make it worse? It's gonna take some real courage. But remember, it's important to start with self awareness if you want to lead with purpose. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that great leaders tame the chaos by Aiming for a higher purpose. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be