Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. You know, grit is one of those buzzwords people sure throw around a lot. And to be honest with you, it can be hard to define, but you know it when you see it and you sure as heck see it in our guest today, Mike McCoy. This weekend, Mike has the honor of being the captain of the United States team at the Walker Cup as our top amateur's compete against Great Britain and Ireland at St. Andrews legendary old course. Mike is one of the world's top amateur golfers and he has been for decades. He even earned a coveted amateur spot at the 2014 Masters and he's done it while building a successful career as the area president of a top firm, Gallagher Insurance. That level of achievement in both golf and business just doesn't happen. It takes an elite mentality, a big commitment and a willingness to do the hard stuff. In other words, it takes grit. And this conversation will help you understand what that grit really looks like and why there's just no substitute for it when it comes to your success. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Mike McCoy. I was glued to the tube a few weeks ago watching Brian Harmon when the open at Royal Liverpool. How'd that make you feel knowing that he's played on the Walker Cup a couple of times? Well, I was thrilled for him. I think back in 2009 at a Walker Cup practice session, Brian was my partner and I'll never forget we were walking down the first hole and he said to me, "Hey, don't be afraid to hit those putts past the hole. I'll make them all coming back." So he had a lot of confidence. That's great. That's a great to have a partner like that. You were selected to be on the 2015 Walker Cup team at age 52, making you the third oldest player in Walker Cup history. Now tell us about the Walker Cup itself and why it's such a prestigious golf event. The history really goes all the way back. This is actually going to be about the 100th anniversary of the start of the match. And it was founded by George Herbert Walker. And really it was started as an international competition to foster goodwill amongst the nations. And at that time, really the only countries that had competitive golfers were the United States and Great Britain and Ireland. And that's really how the match developed. And then for the last 100 years, we've been playing the Walker Cup every other year. It's an unbelievable event to watch. And I've certainly enjoyed watching you when you played. Describe the moment when you got the call to be a player on the team that you were on. Well, it was a dream come true. I have to admit, I chased making that team for a couple of decades. I had a lot of friends that had made previous teams. And I knew what a wonderful experience it was for them. It was really my top goal as I started each season was to play well enough to catch the eye of the selection committee and ultimately earn a spot on the team. Well, that was fantastic to see you do that. And describe the moment when you got the call. It goes full circle now. And you get the call to be the captain. What was that like? Tell us about that moment. Of course, I was pretty emotional and I knew my family was very happy for me. And just one of those dream moments in your life, you'll never forget. Well, everybody that knows you in golf and knows you as a person was just as happy when they heard about it. I can assure you that. Now I have to ask you this, it's always a lot of pressure being a leader. Are you feeling more pressure now as the captain or back when you were a player on the team? I think I'm feeling more pressure now. We're going overseas to St. Andrews and it's their home territory in front of their crowd. We have the cup right now and so the pressure is on me and our team to retain that cup. Well, I want to talk more about the locker cup here in a bit, but I also know you have an extremely successful career and insurance. How did you get started in that business, Mike? It was really a little bit lucky. I had a good family friend who was a headhunter and there was an independent agency in Des Moines, Iowa that was looking for a salesperson and historically the firm had always hired insurance underwriters from inside the industry. And they thought they would try to maybe bring somebody in that might have a little more marketing and sales background and then with the idea they would teach me the insurance business. And that's really how it got started. It was just they took a chance on me and I invested a lot of time and learned the business and it really was a perfect fit. You see any difference as you've climbed the ranks of management. You see any difference when it comes to coaching your golfers versus coaching your employees? Well, golf is a little bit more individual. The players are working on their own games and they have their own issues individually. But when you're working on a team, the team has a collective goal of serving one client and solving a problem for the client. And so everybody on the team has that same goal and everybody has their own little role to play. So I think you really, when you're in a business setting and your team is mature, you have this high level of trust that everybody's going to execute their role. And at the end of the day, we're going to deliver that product and solve that problem for the client. With the golfers, you're really just, they're so individual. You're trying to just put them in the best frame of mind to be successful. And golf is so mental and so much tied to how they view themselves. And I think my job is to make them feel like they can walk through a wall and are going to play great golf. So you know, you're seen as a great leader, Mike, because of your ability to not only assemble really highly talented people in your company, but then get out of the way and empower them to do their job the best they can do it. Who taught you to lead like this? Well, I think it was really out of necessity. The insurance industry has gotten more and more complex and there's been more specialization required to serve these complex clients. And so I've reached out and found people inside the organization that I could depend on that were experts in their various fields. And so my role really becomes more of a project manager, making sure the best that our organization has to offer is delivered to the client. And so you just can't do everything for everybody. And so I bring a team together and I just make sure we hit our timelines and we deliver what we promise. Now, you're the Walker Cup captain and you're running this successful insurance business. And you've also won Iowa's Player of the Year award 11 times as an amateur gol fer. How do you do it all? Well, it's a lot of organization. I don't necessarily play a lot of golf when I'm back in Des Moines. I do go hit some balls in the evening and I live on a golf course. So that makes it a little easier. I can go down and steal an hour in the after dinner. And then I have a good team and they know when I'm going to be gone. So we try to work ahead and get some of the projects finished early. I've had supportive wife who's given me that little bit of leeway to get away on the weekends and go compete. How's technology helped you through all of this? It's just been incredible. I don't think I could have done it without the cell phone and the ability to respond to emails. When I started in the business, we used to type letters. We had a steno pool where you could dictate your note and came back on your desk. You really had time to think about your response and do some research. In today's world, people are looking for that immediate response and without email and cell phones. Number one, you couldn't keep the clients happy and I certainly couldn't be very far from the desk. You talked about almost looking at leadership as a project manager role and meeting your deadlines. How do you project a sense of urgency for your team? Well, I think we have a kickoff call and we basically describe the situation, describe the opportunity or in the case, let's say it's a claim, you discuss where the friction is and everybody develops and contributes to the strategy. We take a lot of pride in how our clients are serviced and most of these people have been clients for 20, 25 years. They've become good friends and there's a little extra pressure. You don't want to disappoint your friends. Part of it's just personal pride that you want to get the job done and you want to do it properly. I've read where you cite Jay Segal as someone who guided you along the way. Tell us about Jay Segal and the role he played in your life and career. Jay gave me the best advice that anybody has ever given me regarding the insurance business and Jay was a successful agent and I called him and the one thing he said, I was evaluating a couple different offers and he said pick the firm that's going to spend the most time training you. Our success is really going to be based on your ability to gain knowledge of the product. I was fortunate. I ended up with a firm that had a lot of very strong professionals and they mentored me. I think I went to lunch with them every day for four or five years and I kind of got an MBA in risk management. I look back upon those days, most of them have passed now but I have fond memories of them and I'm very grateful for what they taught me. Jay Segal for everybody's information is one of the greatest amateur golfers in the history of the game. There's so much about golf that translates into business. When you think about it Mike, what are the top one or two things that come to mind when you think about lessons you've learned on the course that have carried into your life as a business leader? Golf is really never over until you hold the last pot and sometimes the round doesn't start off so well but if you keep your attitude and keep working, a lot of times you'll have that little spurt on the back nine where you'll make a few birdies and kind of turn the whole day around and that's very true in business. You may start working on a project for a prospective client and you don't feel it's going the right way. You're not coming up with the right answer. You're not certain you're going to be able to break that long-term relationship and more often than not if you just get to the finish line and keep working more often than not something happens. You may not get the whole order but you walk away with a piece of it because your clients admire the grind that you put into it. We talked about this a minute ago but I should also note you've won the ZYWA Player of the Year awards in four different decades. That's amazing. You don't look that old Mike, you can't be that old. What's been your key to sustained top performance? How have you been able to do that? Well, the key is that I've never really taken a break. I've really consistently played competitive golf really since I started college and the Iowa winners can be tough but usually you get away and now I'm fortunate I can spend a little more time in Florida. I think that's been the key. I didn't set the clubs down for four or five years. I always kept my game reasonably sharp and it's allowed me to stay competitive a little longer. You were the 2013 U.S. Mid Amateur Champion which is a massive accomplishment. What did take to get that done? Boy, I would say I won my first match which was probably the most difficult match I had on the 18th hole and I made a big birdie on 17 and then had a big up and down on 18. Really I did feel very fortunate to walk away. I could have lost that match as easy as I wanted. You have a little luck. I think a little luck helps. You just can't run the gauntlet of playing all those matches without having a few good breaks go your way. And then my game was sharp. I was prepared. I think I hit it in 14 bunkers that week and I was able to get up and down every time. I never failed to get up and down out of a bunker and that was pretty remarkable. That win enables you to play in the 2014 Masters. What's one of your favorite stories from that experience? The best thing that happened is my oldest son who was a good player was able to caddy for me and spend the week with me out there. It was really fun. I watched through his eyes and the people he met and the wonderful way Augusta treats the Amateurs. It's a special week and they make it very special for all the Amateurs. Staying in the present as you know better than most is critical to golf. How do you translate that into business as a leader? Well it's easy to get distracted and I think it's important that you know you keep your mind, it's sort of it's when you're playing golf you kind of keep your eye on the target and in business you know you're keeping your eye on the goal. And you just kind of keep reminding people here's what we're here for is to serve these clients you know they're counting on us. You know I feel a lot of responsibility when I'm ensuring a large company and the owner or the board is counting on me to have the right coverage and take care of their employees and their customers. So you really have to understand your mission and make it real for people you know that you know in your team you know when there's a serious auto accident families are affected companies face financial risk and you know those are the types of things that we deal with and you know those are serious matters. So I don't know how else to say it but you know it's a serious business and you know golf for me competitive golf is serious business as well. So I kind of handle both of them the same way and that's probably one of my problems too. I need sometimes to take a break and relax a little bit but my free time, my move from right into golf and as soon as that's over I'm moving back into business and you know I'm always kind of always on edge. You know I've watched you play golf more than once in a competitive fashion and you're very serious competitor and you talked about competition and golf and competition in business. What's the difference? Is there a difference in how you look at the competition? Now sometimes know you know the will to win whether it's you know we always like to say insurance brokers you know fight with knives it's a tough business on the street and you know some of these guys you're playing golf with are equally as tough and so now I think the will to win is very similar. We'll be back with the rest of David's conversation with Mike McCoy in just a moment but have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guests? Well I do and I know a lot of you do too. My name is Koolah Callahan and together with David I host the three more questions podcast that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes and in them I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading young brands and all of his answers are super practical and inspiring like this great insight David shared after Patrick Lanchoni's interview. You know I had this phrase that we used healthy debate healthy decision and if you have that good debate you're going to make the best decision and when people raise conflict and basically tackle a tough issue and get it out on the table stop the meeting and say hey way to go that's the kind of honesty and transparency we need around here to get to the best solutions. Get the three more questions podcasts in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love just subscribe to How Leaders Lead wherever you get your podcasts. As we mentioned before you were part of the 2015 Walker Cup Team and unfortunately that team lost a great Britain and Ireland that year. What big lesson did you learn from that experience that you're taking with you as a captain? That was a tough thing not only for the players but you know we had a captain that we love Spider Miller who I know is one of your good friends and you know I was as crushed for him as I was for the team. You know if you look at the teams today you know we probably had the superior team in terms of world ranked players but you know when we prepared in our practice rounds you know the golf course played one way you know the wind was coming you know at our backs off the first tee and the day of the match the weather had turned and the golf course you know played entirely different and so you know our preparation was for one golf course and we were forced to play another and our parings were a little mixed up because of that and we found ourselves in bunkers we didn't know that we're there because you know the day before we were carrying them 30 yards past them so you know I'm taking that lesson and we're going to spend a little more time being prepared for whichever way the wind blows. Yeah that's a good idea you know and as a business leader you know how do you coach your insurance team to think about failure and that adversity and when the wind comes up and it takes you off your game. You know when we lose a deal I'd say everybody you get five minutes to pout and then let's take the next 20 minutes and remember all the good things we have going for us you know we've got a great client base we work for a wonderful organization we have terrific benefits and so you know you don't win them all but you got to remember the glasses still have full and I think it's important to keep that good attitude and you really don't want people sulking very long when things don't go your way. You know golf can be brutal you know we all have to pick ourselves off the mat when things don't go our way. How have you learned just as an individual leader and golfer on the course to regain confidence and self-belief after a setback? Well I'm not opposed to coaching and that's one of the things I've loved about your podcast Dave is I you know I do love to continue to learn in golf I still take a lot of lessons I talk to sports psychologists in the business world I'll reach out to specialists if you know feel we can get better and I'm not too proud to ask for help and so to me that's what gets you back on your game is is kind of you go back and sharpen the axe a little bit and regain a little bit of that self-confidence and and jump right back into it. You know I understand that that you really like USGA tournament setups and not many golfers say that which they're known for being very very demanding. Does that translate into your professional life as well the enjoyment of a big challenge and facing it head on? Yes I think it does I've always been attracted to complex clients that have very very challenging insurance and risk management needs and just like the USGA they demand the ability to you know really sustain yourself over an entire week under very trying conditions and you know a lot of guys when they show up and see the grass is a little longer and the greens are a little firmer and faster you know you've got half the field beat already and I think that's kind of true in business some people you know that when they get in there and they see what a mess that you know a client's got they just sort of throw their hands up and that's kind of where I like to dig in and solve those big problems. You know you've got this big challenge ahead of you now in this year's Walker Cup at the old course at St. Andrews how have you gone about just assembling your team and have you look for anything beyond the golf skills as you've done it? Well there's an international team selection committee that's made up of a number of people they watch the performance of all the players. We're very blessed here in America to have so many fine golfers and so I have spent a lot of time though over the last couple of years I've watched tournaments like the NCAA and the US Open and the US Amateurs and you know you really get to see how these top players prepare and how they perform when the heats on. The one thing I would say that I've been so impressed with is they're very mature they're all mature and they're extremely polite and I think that's one of the things golf does for people. It keeps you around good people and even the kids we're going to have to leave behind I just can only imagine how difficult those calls are going to be but I know how well they're going to take it. They're going to take it like gentlemen and that's the thing I've been very very pleased with is just the quality and the integrity of these young men. You know Spider Miller you know our good friend was your captain in 2015. What did you learn from him? Well Spider you know he's such a wonderful person and he's a very competitive guy too and he's won a lot of big championships and played on Walker Cup teams and you know he wanted us to have a great experience and he did some things you know winning and losing you know that was important but he made sure it was probably one of the best experiences of our lives and one thing that he did that I'll never forget was he took the entire team to Latrobe Pennsylvania and we were able to spend three days with Arnold Palmer and that's where we had our uniforms fitted and we got to play golf and Arnold came out and watched just play every day and he had dinner with us and you know that was a you know I don't think any Walker Cup team is going to ever have an experience like that and so that's the kind of guy Spider is. He just you know he thought of those special things and I'm hoping to do some of that myself. I've learned that from him and those are wonderful memories. You know another guy from Iowa, Zach Johnson is the captain for this year's Ryder Cup team. Have you leaned on each other at all getting ready for each of your team's competitions? Well we've certainly talked a few times about it and he has has a few more issues to deal with. He wasn't certain which players were going to be eligible because of the whole fractured professional game but Zach you know is you know everybody in Iowa is so proud of Zach and there's not a more competitive person than Zach Johnson and I have the benefit of knowing that he's willing to give us a little help. He won the British Open at St. Andrews so he knows his way around there pretty well and I've got a session set up where we're going to he's going to walk me through the golf course and give me his thoughts on you know what are the best angles and how to play the course so that's what friends do for each other and I'm sure grateful that he's willing to share some of his knowledge with me. That's a perfect lead into my next question because I've heard you say that you know you've said and I quote I've competed all over the world so I'm familiar with all the emotions and preparations that's required to be successful. That begs the question here what are those emotions and the preparation that is required to win? Well I think you know discipline to you know get your work in get your rest you know eat properly you know those things you know that's important. I think putting things into the proper context not getting too making it too important you know everybody knows it's important but you know you know the sun's going to come up tomorrow it's still a game and you know you do have to remember you've got a you know a wonderful life and just getting the opportunity to compete at that level you know you just have to be thankful for that. So it's really a matter of kind of keeping things in perspective but also you know doing the things and having the discipline to do the things to prepare so that when you get out there you feel like hey I've hit just as many three footers as that guy and you know I've put the work in and it's okay for me to go ahead and win this thing. You know shifting gears I want to take you back you know what's the story from your childhood that really impacted the kind of leader you are today? Well I was fortunate to have wonderful parents and my father owned a hardware store just a local neighborhood hardware store and you know my brother's probably spent a little more time in there working but I did a few shifts and I learned a lot about business from my dad and you know how you treat people and you know just how to give that extra special service you know he repaired windows and doors and at the end of the day you know he'd put him in the car and drive those over to somebody's house and help put him in the window it might have been a widow or somebody that just didn't know what they were doing and you know he didn't need to do that most hardware stores aren't giving that level of service and he also extended credit he believed in people and so when you know the small business came in you know and they didn't necessarily have the cash to you know at that time to pay for what they needed you know he gave him credit and you know for the most part I think he always was paid back so and he was disciplined too he was tough he got up every morning went to work and you know he came home had dinner and he went back and you know rang the cash register out and balanced the book so you know that consistent discipline and really the way he treated his customers and his employees you know he had employees that were there forever and even for a small business he he created a retirement plan for him and you know I think I learned a lot from my mom and dad just you know how you treat people and for me it carried a little bit into business and you know going that extra mile for your customers. You talked earlier about how you're constantly trying to grow how's Mike McCoy different today as a leader than say 15 or 20 years ago I would say one of the things that is different is for some reason most of my friends are a little older I don't know why I guess I you know I find people interesting and I'm very interested in what people do and how they do it and I read a lot and way more than I used to read when I was younger I love reading two or three newspapers and I stay current with what's what's out there I think I'm much more plugged into society I'm much more plugged in to what people are doing the challenges other people are facing I'm really inspired by those folks and I'm just blessed to have a wonderful group of people around me and great friends. You know Mike this has been so much fun and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions are you ready for this? Let's go. What's one word others would use to describe you? Competitive. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Humble. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself who would it be and why? Bobby Jones. He was so eloquent he had a way of speaking and writing I thought he was fantastic. What's your biggest pet peeve? Lasiness. What's the lowest score you've posted in a tournament round? 60. Wow. Describe your did you have a putt for 59? I did. Oh no. Describe your last I can't believe this is happening to me moment . Well when I got the call to be the Walker Cup captain for 2023 it was the honor of a lifetime to get asked to do that and so I you know when I think about where I started as a caddy and here I am now leading you know the 10 best players in America it's really quite a story. You know Brian Harmon the two time Walker Cup player we just talked about said he loves to get lost using you know his tractor in mowing 40 acres of grass. How do you chill? I'm sitting in my office here but I you know I'm a big book collector. I collect a lot of books and you know and I read a lot. I just love I love to sit down and open a good book. That's the end of the lightning round. Mike well done we're almost done with this and I appreciate you taking the time again. Just a few more questions for you for someone who wants to win in all areas of their life you know family work friendships and also pursue their passions. What's something that's really helped you do that successfully? I think setting goals be in sales or your own financial goals or you know this is what I want to accomplish with my golf game. These are the areas I want to see improvement in. I think you know setting goals is really important. What do you see as your unfinished business? I sure want to win that US senior amateur. And I'm betting on you. Last question here. What's the one piece of advice you'd give to someone that wants to be a better leader? I think you have to care. You just have to care about your people. You have to care about your customers and if you do that things are going to work out. You know Mike former Walker Cup captain our good friend buddy Marucci had this to say about you. He said the excellence of Mike McCoy's game is obvious. What may not be so obvious to those who have not played with him is just how well he handles himself win or lose. The game of golf is still and will always be a gentleman's game and Mike is the best example I know. And Mike I've got to say I couldn't agree more. You know I it's been so much fun getting to know you watching you in action and admiring the way how you carry yourself. Not only on the golf course but as a friend and also as a business leader. And I really want to thank you for taking the time. And what I know is just an incredible hectic time for you as you ready for the Walker Cup and wish you the best of luck. Go USA. Well thanks David. I I love your podcasts and I've learned so much and I'm just honored that you had me on. You know I think a lot of us carry around this mental image of the idea leader. They're charismatic and winsome and they dazzle everyone when they walk into the room. But when you really talk to successful leaders you can see that most of the building blocks of leadership aren't flashy at all. That's certainly the case when you see how Mike McCoy leads. You remember the great leadership looks like leaning into complexity when other people run for the hills. It looks like staying sharp with discipline and consistent hard work. And it looks like developing that level-headed mentality that helps you keep your perspective on what needs to be taken seriously and what doesn't. And boy Mike has built two incredible careers both in insurance and in golf with that kind of attitude. Great leaders understand that grit gets results because all that hard work is needed and nothing can take the place of it. So this week remind yourself of your own grit . Spend a few minutes each day to document the setbacks and challenges you've overcome. Tease out the lessons you've learned and ask yourself what skills and strengths you gain from those situations. Doing this simple exercise is really going to reinforce the value of grit and it'll be a source of strength for you the next time you need to dig deep and power through a challenge. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that grit gets results. And speaking of grit, coming up next week on How leaders lead is Brandon Bean, the general manager of the Buffalo Bills and one of the top executives in the National Football League. I just kept trying to learn every area talking to people. You still have to tend to the main job that you're being hired for but using your extra time. Not why you're on the clock so to speak. Learning from others in your building. Also making contacts with counterparts around the league to ask them how they do things. And you're always looking for ideas again while you're focused on the job you're doing at hand. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I may get a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] ( This is a terrible video)