Welcome to High Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, the NFL season starts tonight and I'm so excited about having football back. But behind all the big plays and personalities and storylines, there are a lot of leadership lessons for us too, which is why I'm so excited about my guest today, Brandon Bean, the general manager of the Buffalo Bills. Now look, being a general manager in the NFL is a big job. Brandon is basically the head of all the operations from trading players to drafting players to contract negotiations, salary cap management, and of course collaborating with the coaches on the roster. Let me tell you, that is a lot of things to be good at. And when you hear this conversation with Brandon, you'll see it doesn't just happen. He's very intentional about the way he builds his know-how in all these areas. He's got the humility to spot what he doesn't know and the confidence to go out and learn it. Go as a leader and build the career you want. You've got to understand where the gaps are in your knowledge and you've got to do whatever it takes to fill them. Listen to this conversation to see how it's done. Plus, here's some great insights and fun stories into what leadership looks like in the National Football League. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Brandon Bean. Brandon, it's great to have you on the show. No, I appreciate you having me on, David. It was good to meet you a few weeks ago out of Bauhalo and it's pretty cool that I was able to go to this year's PGA Championship and then I already played where they 're going to be playing next year. So I'm excited to watch that and how the course comes together. It looked great. And you were in for the Kentucky Derby weekend and I got to ask you, what do you think of the Kentucky Derby and did you pick the winner? Well, I had some winners and some losers. I didn't do well in the Derby itself. I should have followed Eric Wood's leap. He had a nice evening, but it was fun just that whole weekend going Friday. We played Friday morning in Bauhalo and then went there the afternoon for the Oaks and those races. And then all day there for the Derby was just, it was a bucket list item that I 've had for years. And with our football schedule, sometimes it comes on rookie mini camp. Sometimes it doesn't. So I've had some invites and haven't been able to fulfill them. So I told Eric Laster, like Eric, if you invite me this year, count me in and sure enough, he called a few weeks before the draft. And it was awesome. I'm already looking forward to the next chance to go. Oh, that's great. Well, we're glad you came to Kentucky. Glad you enjoyed the aisle and glad you enjoyed the Kentucky Derby. You know, interestingly, when you talk about sports and conflicting schedules, one of my guests one year was Arnold Palmer because he had never been to the Derby because he was always playing in all these golf tournaments. And, you know, it was great having him and it's great having people like yourself come to Louisville and make the event what it is. You know, now Brandon, as GM, you've been named executive of the year in the NFL two out of the last three seasons. What's this kind of recognition mean to you? Yeah, I mean, it's a team thing. It really is just like if Josh Allen won the MVP of the season or of the Super Bowl, he's not doing that by themselves. And I've got a great staff here and, you know, along with partner with Sean McD ermott and him leading our coaches and our players. So it's a, it's really a group team. We type of award. It's a major team's had some success. And so that's, that's really how I look at it. And, you know, as nice as those are, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm looking forward to hopefully one day hoisting out of a Marty trophy. That's, that's what we're all grinding for here every day. Yeah, I'm sure that's going to happen. You know, and I can't wait to get into how you lead. But first, I want to take you back. What's the story from your childhood, the shape, the kind of leader you are today? Now I grew up working. I grew up in the, in the country. I got a job when I was 14 years old at a golf course, not a country club. Some people that, because I'm good at golf, I got some friends in the league. They say, oh, you, you raised in a country club. I'm like, no, this was not a country club by any means. But anyway, it was less than a mile from my house so I could ride my bike to and from work and, and had my, both my parents worked. And so it was on me. It wasn't like my mom was there to get me going. I kind of knew if I wanted to keep this job, I had to be there on time every day and do a good job. And so the head pro, our head club pro, his name was Dave Bandavinter. And just watching a guy who was steady every day, whether, whether things were great at the course or whether there were some issues with membership or you lost some greens, whatever it was, you never knew if Dave was having, you know, a really awesome day or a really bad day. He was just a steady leader and I always had a smile on his face. And as I grew in maturing life, I realized I'm sure he was going through some rough days that I never even realized and that kind of resonated with me. Tell me about your first job in professional football. Yeah, David, I started as a six week intern right out of college with the Carolina Panthers. I was a communications major. I really wanted to get into the football side, but I didn't have an end. I didn't know anyone. I didn't have that special connection that sometimes can help you land where you want to land. I started, I had tried to get an internship the year before with the Panthers, also with the Charlotte Hornets and didn't get either one, but I did do one with the Charlotte touchdown club. And I did it. It was an unpaid deal. I stayed with my sister who was working in Charlotte at the time. And so I did that for the whole year. And the next year I was getting ready to graduate UNC Wilmington. And the guy who ran the Charlotte touchdown club said, hey, we're doing an event with Dom Capers, who was the original head coach of the Panthers. He's going to be speaking. He's like, you should come back here. Some of the people that you were trying to interview with are going to be here. And so I came back to the event, helped him run it and was able to put a name with a face with a guy named Bruce Spate and Charlie Dayton, longtime PR guys there and got myself in the door, got an interview, and then got that six week internship. And so it was public relations. It was for training camp 1998. It was my first opportunity to see the inside of an NFL team and how it operated. And as much as I enjoyed it, I saw that I really wanted to work, you know, on the football side and football operations. And so I kind of made it known at the end of that if something ever came about, let me know. And I got lucky. Two weeks, I was probably home a week or two after camp and someone who was in the season intern role for it was kind of a hybrid football ops/player development job. She left and they called me. And so I worked the whole 98 season again as an intern, but it allowed me to be a part of the team for, you know, a good four or five months from there. So you stay at Carolina. You're there for 18 years. You rise up to the level of assistant general manager. What you do to earn more responsibility and climb the ladder because everybody wants to do that. Not everybody starts out at the top. You do have to, you know, kind of be where your feet are, but you can also be watching and learning and talking to others. And, you know, in our field, when my job was done, I would go out and help fold towels for our equipment manager and just learn how he did his business. And he actually hadn't me start traveling with the team to help him and I would help at practice. So it wasn't that my long-term goal was to be an equipment manager, but as I rose and became a director of football operations, I was put in charge of the equipment department. And it helped me understand the challenges and the struggles that someone would go with that position. So as I kind of moved up, I just kept trying to learn every area, talking to people, you know, you still have to tend to the main job that you're being hired for, but using your extra time, not while you're on the clock, so to speak, weekends, nights, vacation time, learning from others in your building, also making contacts with counterparts around the league to ask them, maybe your team doesn't do things the same way another one. So maybe you like it the way they do it a little bit more or maybe adjust it to , you know, to back to how you were doing it. You just, you're always looking for ideas, again, while you're focused on the job you're doing at hand. And then you get the coveted job of being the general manager of the Buffalo Bills. Can you give us a little inside story of how you got the job and how you prepared for that interview so that you won the job? Yeah, it's years in the making and you're taking your experiences. I'll tell you, in 2012, my boss, longtime mentor, Marty Herney, who's one of the main reasons I'm sitting in this seat talking to you, he kind of raised me in the business as the GM of the Panthers. He got let go. We started the season one and five and at the time I was 36 years old and our owner at the time, Mr. Jerry Richardson called me into his office and explained to me why he was making the change. And to be honest with you, when he called me in there, I had never stepped foot in his office and I'd been there for 14 years. And I honestly thought he was coming in there to tell me I was being let go as well when he told me Marty was being let go. But he flipped it and said, "Hey, I'm going to put you in charge for the rest of the season." And so I was the interim GM the rest of that year with Ron Rivera as the head coach. And it really opened in my eyes to some things that until you get in the seat, you know, you may not understand. And so after that, David, I really, for the next few off seasons, we get some downtime in our business from late June to early July. I really just started that next off season of putting some ideas down on paper of how I would build my team from what type of people I would want, what type of leaders, what are the important positions, you know, from a skill set standpoint that I want, what type of head coach what I want, what are the important things such as facilities, player care, nutrition, just all these things. I was just kind of brainstorming, putting them together for probably a combination of two summers and then talk to a couple former GMs and ask them some of the things, what's it like, what's your first 30 days like I build a calendar of what's the first 90 days on the job, you know, kind of look like. And, you know, long and short of it, you start really paying attention as you go through the yearly cycle of things that come up and you make a note, put it in your phone and kind of add it to your file. And you just, you're continually building a book is instead of a one page resume, you're building bullet points from A to Z, how you would build and run an organization . And so my first interview, I actually did not get the job that same, I got this job in May of 2017, I interviewed with the San Francisco 49ers in late January of 2017 . And I did not get that job, but I learned so much from that interview. And it was just a great experience. And so when I got this interview, I was much more relaxed, much more under control and was able to, I thought do a better job of kind of explaining to the Bogula family where I saw the deficiencies of their organization at that time, my experiences that I had in Carolina that I'd learned from, some good, some not so good, and how I thought we could start the process of working with Sean McDermott to build a winner here. What's something about the transition to a new franchise and into your first GM role that kind of caught you by surprise? Something that you didn't expect. You never know when you're walking in a new building. It wasn't like we were walking in and firing a bunch of people, they had removed some of our scouting staff, but beyond that, all the support staff was here. And so I tell you, I kind of thought with this team had a stigma of losing 17 years in a row and not making the playoffs before we got here. And so I thought maybe there would be a lot more negativity with people of just , oh man, this is just another GM coming in or another head coach in Sean McDermott coming in. They don't know what they're doing either. We'll just buy at our time and there'll be another one here in two or three years. And we had a lot of people that they were starving to be a part of a winning culture and just wanted to be involved. They wanted to be heard. They wanted to be respected. And so I was kind of honestly, when I walked in here, I really didn't know what to expect, David, but I really expected there to be more negativity than there was from people who had been an organization a long time that had frankly not had a lot of success. You know, both you and Sean started in the same year together. You both worked with Carolina, which so you at least knew each other. But you know that GM head coach relationship is really critical. How did you two get aligned on the vision and the strategy that you wanted to take to really build the Buffalo Bills into the organization it is now today? Yeah, David, I think us working together in Carolina for six seasons, obviously he was not the head coach and I was not the GM, but he was the quote unquote the head coach of the defense and me being the assistant GM was in charge of a lot of things that we did from personnel standpoint. So we would have conversations at various times during the year. And I would say a lot of our things we saw players through the same lens of what we're looking for and Sean's a high character guy. And I think that he felt the same about me. And so there was a lot of natural things of the way we viewed players and building a team and culture unspoken things. Really David, we didn't get that deep, but just if you have enough conversations with someone you realize that, man, do we see things polar opposite or do we kind of gravitate towards some of the same things. And I felt, you know, with Sean here and that was part of the thing when I interviewed for the job, you know, if I didn't believe in Sean as a man, as a leader and how he would run the culture from a head coach seat, you know, I would have never even taken the interview in a GM or a future GM. You have to be paying attention to coaches out there that are really good coordinators, whether they're an offense or defense. And so you're always running your list. These might be my top five, six guys. I'd like to interview. And so it would have been interesting to interview Sean, but obviously he was already here. So when I took the job, we sat down and again, it is a marriage. You're talking about two people that sometimes he's going to see it one way. I'm going to see another and it's having that shared vision, but also being willing and adaptable to at least hear someone out. And sometimes you have to agree to disagree that, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say we've been here six seasons that when we walk out of a room that we see it exactly the same, but the reason that we've been able to work together and get to the right solutions is we both are trying to do it in the best interest of the Buffalo Bills. And if you can go back and say, honestly, this is not selfish. This is what I think is best for whatever business you're in, you can lay your head down at night and say, whether it was right or wrong in the end, I did it in the best interest of the team. And I know Sean has that trust in me and I have that trust in him, even when we do disagree on certain things. Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guests? Well, I do. And I know a lot of you do too. My name is Koolah Callahan and together with David, I host the three more questions podcasts that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes and in them, I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading young brands and all of his answers are super practical and inspiring. Like this great insight David shared as we dove deeper into his conversation with Alan Mulally, this former CEO of Ford Motor Company. You lose when you develop things because you think they are important and you think it's the way to go and you don't really understand what the customer is really thinking and what they're really looking for. I've seen so many companies get in trouble because they're internally focused instead of externally focused. You have to be externally focused and that means you've got to listen and respond to the voice of your customer. This is fundamental and it is the difference between winning and losing. Get the three more questions podcasts in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love. Just subscribe to How Leaders Lead wherever you get your podcasts. You mentioned earlier the 30 day plan, the 90 day plan. You come in and you started shaking things up in a hurry. You shocked the system because you traded away three of your top players for draft choices to get players that you called in quotes you know the right kind of DNA. What is that DNA that you look for? Yeah, I mean it's just it's selflessness. It's team first. People that are in it for one common goal and nothing else. You know one of the things we talk about is the disease of me. You know not not finding people that are all about themselves. They're in it for the common goal. They want to work hard. They obviously have to have a certain talent level whether they're a coach, a player, a scout, a trainer, whatever it is. They have to reach a certain skill level but beyond that they got the positive attitude. Listen, everyone has some type of ego but they're able to control their ego. You know you want them to be confident but confidence that's not turning into arrogance. Things that can distract from the team. Those are the type of people that we look for and again it's not just in our players. We're looking for that in anyone who is affecting the team and especially the product on the field. So you come to this organization had a losing history and you trade away three of what people think are the key players. I'm sure you had a lot of guys thinking you're throwing in the towel at least for the short term for the long terms. In times like this, how have you found it the best way to communicate to your team what you're really trying to do? Yeah, I think it's honest communication and our friend Eric Wood could tell you that first year there was definitely, when you traded Sammy Watkins or Ronald Darby, there 's questions are are we trying to win? We were definitely trying to win. In both of those trades we worked to get back other players. We could have just traded just straight for assets. Yes, we did get some draft capital because we thought it was very important to set ourselves up to be able to go find the franchise quarterback that eventually became Josh Allen. But we weren't throwing in the towel. We wanted to that first year Sean and I wanted to set the tone and listen, we had no idea if we'd win two games or 10 games. But we were going to fight our butts off every week and we wanted to make sure the players knew yes. There are moves that you're going to see us make that may look like we're not but we are every time we're going to try and look for avenues to add young players, add different players. But of course players that do fit the culture that we want to be here and as long as you're honest with them and you're not BSing them, I think they'll stay the course and they'll buy into what you're preaching. Now, you talk about culture and what is culture to you? I mean, how do you describe the Buffalo Bills culture? What's positive energy is people that work hard. It's team first. It's being selfless and looking out for others. When something goes well, they're not raising their hand going, look at what I did or when things go bad, you're not having people pointing fingers at others. It's all those things, accountability. If you throw an interception, one of the things about Josh Allen, he's the first guy to take all the blame, Josh could have three touchdowns and an interception and he's going to be the first guy to say it should have been four touchdowns and no interceptions. I screwed it up and we could have won the game by 20 and that's what you want from your leaders. How do you communicate that to all the people? I mean, you can rattle that off in your head. I mean, do you have clear expectations that have been documented or laid out so that everybody says, hey, if you're Buffalo Bills, this is what we expect out of you. Yeah, I mean, you do it with your leaders and you do it on a regular basis yourself. You can't ask people to do what you're not willing to do, but we have directors in various apartment, whether it's our head equipment manager, our head of scouting, our head of analytics, our offensive coordinator, defense coordinator, you name the position. Sometimes I can't on a daily basis get in front of every single employee in the football side or in, I'm sure Sean would say the same thing, but it's getting the message out to your key leaders in the various departments, making sure you're clear, you're direct, you're honest and you're keeping them in the loop. And I think if you do that and you set the standard and we talk about him, you don't veer from the standard under any circumstance. You set your standard, you go, it's not always black and white. There's certain situations that various things come up, but I think if you set that standard of what you expect on a daily basis and you must first abide by that yourself, David, I think others will follow along. We mentioned Eric Wood, just for everybody out there. Eric used to be an all pro center for the Buffalo Bills and he was still on the team when you came in, right Brandon? Yeah, so Eric was the first guy that I gave it a contract extension to. I knew that we were going to be in the process of finding a franchise quarterback. So having a guy who could take that pressure off him, a leader up front that could kind of ID the mics and call the protections, all the stuff to take that pressure off of what was going to be a rookie quarterback, I thought, man, Eric, I got to know him for a few months and extend him. He played that year, he played every snap and then unfortunately, into that season, the docs tell him his career is over, it was one of the wildest things I'd never expected. I got to play every snap and then be told his career is over. Yeah, he's had a neck injury that took him out. He's a great guy and I'm sure he had the DNA that you look for in your players. Oh man, Eric was everything and then some, I mean, just heartbroken for him and selfishly for us too, but to not have him with Josh Allen, they would have been such a great parent. Now you not only have to win over the players, but also the fans and the media and what's it like to have every decision you make written about, scrutinized and how do you handle that? Yeah, you know, it comes with a job. You have to understand that most decisions, 50% are going to like it and 50% are going to hate it. And if that's the case, you probably did all right. If it's 90, 10, you probably should start worrying, but it's just, it's the love of this game. It's passionate. Obviously this fan base is as passionate as any fan base out there. And so you just, it comes with the territory. You can't listen to it. You know, there's an old saying, if you're listening to the media, you'll soon be joining. You know, you'll be sitting with them. And so, you know, you care about them. You love their passion, but you understand too that there's decisions you make that they're not, they're not in position to have all the information that you have. And so they're just, they're given what they see, but ultimately, hopefully they trust that in the end, I'm making the best decision for the bills. So you make this big move, you get rid of three of your top players and you actually succeed in the short term and you make the playoffs in 2017, ending an 18 year drought. What was it like to see that momentum start to take off? Oh, David, it was awesome. I mean, we've, we've had a few good playoff runs here, but the great thing about that one was no one expected. It was a bunch of guys that were, you know, kind of put together for this, this year, was some old guys from the old regime paired with some of the new blood we brought in to set this new culture. And, and it was, again, we traded those guys in the, away in the fall and the early, you know, late summer, early fall and a lot of people thought we were tanking and, and of course, I fall back at that that we're not tanking. We could be getting more assets than we are. But it was just, it was euphoric because you saw quickly, it doesn't take long to be in Buffalo to realize how passionate this fan base this city is. I mean, this is a blue collar. They love this team. You know, they're going to ride or die with this team no matter what the record is. And there was literally, I mean, people crying, you know, and, and bars in the streets and to, you know, see that 17 year drought in was one of the coolest things I'll never forget. You, you then make a quantum leap and you talked about, you know, getting some draft power so that you could get that franchise quarterback, but you get the quantum leap, you, you draft Josh Allen. Now, it looks like a no brainer now, but that was a really big decision. Take us through it. Yeah. I mean, it was a multi, you know, part process to get to where we did, you know , for a couple reasons, start back to us acquiring draft capital, you know, shortly after I got here with some of the moves you mentioned earlier. And then that whole fall going and seeing all these potential, you know, it was considered a pretty good quarterback class. You know, by the time I took the job, I'd even talked to the baguels about some of the names Josh included that we were going to need to be scouting. And so you go through that fall process and then ultimately you get to start meeting them and interviewing them and start pinning down who you really like and who you want to target. And now it's a matter of, man, we made the playoffs that year. So we had two picks. We were at 21 and 22. We're not going to be able to get a Josh Allen at 21 or 22. So what do we need to do? And so we traded our left tackle at the time, Courtney Glenn with Cincinnati and that got us to 12 and then kept trying to get up and up before the draft started, especially once we had honed in on Josh and where we would need to get to to try and get him. Fortunately, he didn't get picked and once the seventh, we had tried earlier, but we finally found a trade partner in Tampa to move from 12 to seven to go secure, you know, Josh. That was a good move too bad for Tampa, although they did have our good friend Tom Brady go there. You know, in this year's draft, you take tight in Dalton Kincaid in the first round. Now, is he the missing link as you when you think about what it's going to take to get the Super Bowl or how do you look at that? Yeah, I mean, Dalton, we looked at as a guy, had a really good year this year at Utah, a past catching. We always talk about people get put in buckets, whether they're a tight end, receiver, running back, whatever, which is right. But we looked at Dalton as a weapon for our offense and a guy who really could work the middle of the field, kind of a hybrid receiver, tight end, could always do some things that a big slot would do for you. And just a really hard worker, great hands and just a guy that we thought hopefully in time as he learns the game can be a mismatch weapon for us. And, you know, obviously our number one threat, you know, is Stefan Diggs. And so how can we add more weapons so that when teams try and double him and take him or bracket him and take him away, we've got other weapons that people have to honor. You know, if you boil it down, you're in the business of talent management. That may be an oversimplification, but, you know, what's your process you go through to analyze the needs of your team to say, "Okay, we've got to move this guy or that guy or keep this guy or that guy?" Obviously, part of it is managing your salary cap and planning and forecasting where your dollars are going to be and being responsible with those dollars because it's not an endless supply. You know, we do have a hard cap and we have to work within that. But it's also at the end of the season, David, just having honest, open feedback with your coaches and your personnel staff to, you know, the first thing you have to do is know your own roster. Like, you're going to make mistakes in this business. You really are. You're not going to, you're dealing with people. Sometimes you're going to get a player that maybe he doesn't fit in Buffalo or he's going through some situations. He's had good career, but maybe he's going through some off the field stuff at the wrong time when you acquire them. I've seen all sorts of things over the years. Things that you can't predict. Life happens and you try and eliminate as much of that as you can. But where you can't go wrong is you can't misevaluate your own roster. Don't beat your guys up too bad because you're down on them. They didn't play the way you thought they were going to play. And don't pump them up too much either. You know, give a good, steady, honest approach. And that's where knowing the league, knowing what's out there. And sometimes some biases can come in. And so just doing your best to try and eliminate those to make the best decisions you can on the guys you got to keep and the guys you got to replace. You know, I don't believe there's any relationship. In fact, I know there isn't, but I'm curious if the money ball, Billy Bean approach has impacted the way you make decisions in football. Of course, he was the baseball guru. Right. No. Last name and a lot of respect for what he's done and seeing that movie and stuff, haven't read the book. But no, he's done a heck of a job. Listen, I am about, you know, we incorporate analytics in a lot of our decisions that we do, whether it's salary cap analysis, stuff that we do from a game planning standpoint. And then just even player evaluation, adding that element. I always look at it. It's another, you know, it's another tool. But it's not the only way you're still going to use your eye to evaluate the players. But there's a lot of things out there that analytics can help you help eliminate and help make your decision more clear when, you know, when you make a, you know, a certain move. You know, you really run a very complex business. You got to understand the salary caps, the contracts. There's so much to know as a GM. How did you level up? I mean, you were like a journalism major, communications major. And I know you worked your way up at the Panthers. But how do you level up your business acumen to feel confident in that part of the role, the salary cap, the contracts? Yeah. I mean, again, I had a guy in Marty Herney who's in Washington now is executive VP running their football ops and basically, you know, their quasi GM. But who really allowed me to learn he was, he was an open leader, I would say he would, he would have open conversations, maybe it was offline, maybe it was in the office, whatever it was. But, and then just taking the time, asking questions, what do I need to learn? You know, I worked alongside a guy, Rob Rogers, who's also in Washington now is really good at the salary cap and just asking Rob questions, how he writes contracts, studying other teams, how they, how they do contracts. And then just learning that, you know, the collective bargaining agreement, you know, our CBA is thick. It's not something you're going to sit down over a couple of weekends and knock out. It's a reading that in various portions based on the calendar of the year. You know, if we're, if we're talking about free agency, understanding the free agency rules, the draft. And so again, learning these things on the side while still making sure at the time when I was the director of football operations that I'm, I'm running the team and leading it the way I'm supposed to lead it. And then adding these other things, you know, it's kind of like going to night school. It's, it's not taken away from my job during the day, but when I have some free time on planes traveling or in the summer, then kind of adding these, you know, these nuances to, you know, to the job. How would you sum up the keys to managing the salary cap? I know that's a complicated question, but, you know, if you could boil it down to, you know, just one, two or three things, what would it be? Yeah. I mean, it's not just a one year thing. I mean, you can make, you can make anything work in a year, but you've got to be able to forecast where the cap is going because we're not told, you know, two years, three years, four years where it's at. So using your resources to kind of predict where you think it's going to be, you know, one of the biggest wrenches I've faced here is when COVID hit. And the first time since it came in and whatever 1991 or two, when I was instituted in the NFL, it's the only time that it went backwards. And so that was one of the biggest obstacles we've had to face. All teams had to face from a planning standpoint because you're, you're planning seven, eight, nine percent, maybe 10 on a good year. If you've got a new TV deal going and all of a sudden it goes from, I don't remember the number, it went from 190 something back down to 182. And it was, I think it went from 198 all the way back to 182 when it should have gone from 198 to probably 210 to 215 somewhere in that range. So forecasting is probably your biggest thing. And then how you structure your contracts, making sure you're structuring them so that you can predict at the end of the year where you're going to be because you're adding incentives, you're working with various agents. You don't get to do all contracts exactly the way you want because you're dealing with this agent who wants certain things, you're dealing with another agent who's wanting certain things but making sure it all fits within your structure the best you can. Sometimes there's some deals that you really want the player and you kind of kind of give on your structure a little bit to be able to secure that player. You know, Brandon, I've learned that you were seen as one of the most fun guys to really watch during the draft because you're so active, trading up and trading down. You mentioned you did that to get Josh Allen. You know, I imagine your phone is constantly ringing off it on the hook that day. How do you build rapport with other teams and GMs in order to make these deals happen? Because they got to know that you're a live wire. Yeah, they probably know I'm all in worst enemy that just get being on the phone and you get a deal out of it probably. But no, I enjoy it. I'm always looking to, you know, to, we build the draft board the way we do, David, and trying to find where we think the value is. And the value can fall for different teams to different spots. And so I'm just constantly trying to work that board. But to me, you know, you get deals done, you know, with trust and relationships that you have. And so, you know, yes, I'm competing with the other 31 teams, but not to do business below board or do things that are crooked or anything like that, trying to be trustworthy and someone that they know if we're doing a deal that I'm shooting them straight and that I'm hoping, you know, on the reverse and they're shooting me straight back . Which one of your favorite draft day stories? Oh, man, probably getting Josh Allen because, you know, one of the funny things on that one was, you know, you can imagine you're staking your career in a lot of ways to the franchise quarterback that you draft. Sometimes you might get the draft a second if you missed the first one, but you 're not going to get so many swings at the plate on this. And so my good buddy who was my assistant GM, he's now the Giants, Joe Shane. He and I were kind of, we had split up the teams because we landed with Tampa at seven, but we were working the phones for some of the other teams prior to that pick. And you could hear a pin drop in the room. I wish we had it recorded. We didn't. But Joe's a sweater anyway. He's just one of those guys. He sweats, if he was doing this zoom right now, you get done. His pits be sweating out. And so he got done and he ruined this suit. We got done with this whole trade, Josh Allen, and looked up and I didn't even realize it. Like he took his suit coat off and the inside of it was just dripping. His back of his shirt looked like he had been on a swimming pool. It was just, it was kind of a relieving moment that we just got Josh Allen, but we couldn't stop laughing at him ruining that suit. So that's probably one of my favorite stories. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Brandon Bean in just a moment. As you've heard us talk about, Brandon got to work with all pro-bill center Eric Wood before a devastating neck injury forced Eric to walk away from the game he loved. Now for a lot of people, that would have been an absolutely crushing blow. And it sure was for Eric, but Eric had a different mindset to get him through it. Each and every day you could put yourself into a transition to make your what's next in life your best yet. It doesn't have to be this big catastrophic life change. It doesn't have to be a career ending injury like it was myself. It could simply be you saying, I want my tomorrow to be better than my today. Essentially it becomes owning your story and figuring out, okay, what am I good at? Where does my passion lie? And then it's stacking wins. I just feel like in anything in life, it's never this big home run grand slam moment. It's a continual process of getting 1% better every single day. And then I believe in life, it's all about what you can do for others and serving them. If you want to see what it takes to develop that kind of positive mindset, then go back and listen to my entire conversation with Eric. Episode 114 here on How Leaders Lead. I understand that Black Friday in the NFL is the Friday after the last preseason game where you make the final player cuts. How tough is that day for you? That's generally one of the worst days of the year for me because right now our roster is at 90. We've got a lot of guys that have been here before, but we've got new faces. And you see all the work that these players are putting in all spring, all off season. And they're putting it in. You've got 90 guys and you've got to cut it down to 53. So you're talking about crushing 37 guys. And again, I know there's some guys on there that know they're probably not going to make it or they're just shooting for practice squad. But there's a lot of guys that are right on the border. And I'm sure there's some sleepless nights they have down to the end. Especially when you see guys that you feel, man, this guy had a really good argument. There's always guys every year that you get down to those last few spots that maybe there's a little dissension in the meetings of this coach wants this player, this scout wants this player. But ultimately I've got to make the best decision again for the Buffalo Bills and you can only keep 53. So that's hard. So again, I'll go back to it the way I try and navigate it. And Sean and I meet with these guys together on that day just to let them ask us any questions. They can yell at us, whatever they need to do. But we just try and shoot them straight and be honest of what they did well, what it came down to. And listen, this business works where many times we cut somebody or release them one day and 10 days, two weeks later, we're calling them back because someone else failed or there's an injury and we need them back on the team. So honesty and open communication is probably the best way to navigate it for us. You know, Brandon, you're known for having great relationships with the players . You know, Von Miller even wears a t-shirt with your face on it as I understand it. You know, how do you do such a great job of building these relationships without being a friend or how do you keep the emotional distance it takes to make the inevitable tough calls that only you can make? Yeah, I don't do myself very good because, you know, I think there's some GMs out there that, you know, stayed probably a little bit further back than I do from getting to know some of these guys as well. It's just my personality. I love to get to know these guys. They're backstories, how they got here, they're family. And so it does make the decision tougher and it makes it harder. And listen, there's been times, there's tears shed on both sides when you got to give, you know, the bad news. But, you know, it's just the only way I know it's the way that I think it should be done. Maybe it's the way it was raised by my family. It's just important for me to get to know who's out there putting it on the line, you know, for the Buffalo Bills. And I'll live with making it a little bit tougher on myself, you know, when you do have to give them that dreaded news. You know, you get to the AFC Championship game in 2021 and you come so close to going to the Super Bowl. And you play in what I think many would say is the best game in football history against the Kansas City Chiefs. How did you handle the pain of a loss like that? Yeah, losses like that, you know, they never go away. You know, you kind of compartmentalize them. Again, kind of like I was saying earlier, David, you have to be honest with yourself. And yeah, we did a lot of good things. You know, people will always point to one play here, one play there. But it's generally more plays than that. And you have to be honest with everyone that's involved, including yourself, and try and, you know, where can you, you know, learn from it? And if you don't learn from it, you wasted it. And so I never want to, you know, see the bills, you know, yes, you lost a game doing like this or there's always going to be things you're learning from and hopefully things that you learn from now you take advantage of later. And again, 20 years from now, you know, I'll still remember losing a game like that. I've been in two Super Bowls that we've lost and you try and forget them the best you can, but you know, those are limited opportunities in this league is so hard to get to an AFC championship or to a Super Bowl. So those things always last a little bit longer. Now, here we go again. You're going into a new season here, 2023. How much pressure do you feel going into this year and how do you manage that? Yeah, I mean, listen, nobody's going to put more pressure on me than myself. I expect a lot of out of myself, my staff. And so I don't worry about the outside noise, David is really driven internally as a competitive person. And again, the bagullas have given us everything we need and can want for to do the best job. And so now it's up for myself and Coach McDermott to handle that. But we don't worry about the outside. We just we focus on ourselves and how we can get better. And again, some of the lessons I just talked about from some of those end of season losses, what did we learn from them and how can we overcome them going forward? You know, this has been a lot of fun, Brandon. And I want to have some more with what I call my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? Far away. What's one word others would use to best describe you? Competitive. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Relentless. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? I think it'd be pretty cool to have been Tiger Woods to see that. I mean, that guy is the most talented player I've ever seen in golf. And I know there were some talented players before him. And it's probably arguable that maybe he's not the greatest player. But I think I've been pretty cool to be able to play golf at his level at some point. I agree with that one. What's your biggest pet peeve? Probably being late drives me nuts when things don't start on time. What's the bills record going to be this season? I don't do predictions, David. Hopefully enough to get us into the playoffs. If we can just get in, this AFC is going to be, it's a gauntlet as you well know. My goal is for us to get in the playoffs and be playing our best football. If we can do that, I don't care what the record is. What's something about the bills mafia that makes them stand out from other NFL fan bases? Man, they're recruiters. I mean, they are, when a name pops up, they are after them. They want every good player to be here. Sometimes they forget we got a salary cap or they don't care that we have a salary cap to fit them in. But I love it. They are passionate about this team and listeners. They're one of those, they'll tell you when they think you screwed up. But if someone else picks on you, it's like if you're arguing with your brother and you can fight with your brother, but if somebody else picks on them, you're going to go defend them. And so I think that separates them from most fan bases. What's something about Buffalo you'd only know if you live there? You know, the weather here, as much as it can be some crazy snow storms and things like that from June until mid October, I don't know if there's any better weather in the country than here. It's gorgeous here. I did not know that before I got here. Now, if I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Probably the highway. I like some good country music. So I got a few space. You and me both. Around to Pearl Jam radio and Yacht Rock a little bit, but more times than not, it'd probably be on the highway. What's something about you a few people would know? Well, I ran a marathon one time. That's probably unless you were back in my earlier days in the Panthers, you probably wouldn't know that, especially looking at my weight right now. All right, that's the end of the lightning round. And I just a couple more questions. I'll let you go back to getting the bills to the Super Bowl here. It was a crazy situation. We all witnessed last year with Demar Hamlin. Can you give us a little inside story? What's it's like to have him back playing football again? Oh, it's nothing short of a miracle. I mean, you're witnessing this guy basically loses life on the field being revived. And you're in that hospital with his family and you're praying for the best. And honestly, we were all just praying that he would live and you'll deal with whatever it is if he can just live. And then you find out that he's going to live and he didn't suffer any brain damage. And he's going to be able to walk again and all that. So now you're still just going, well, cool. He can live a normal life. He's going to be able to have a family. His parents are going to be able to enjoy him, his younger brother, all that. You're still not thinking about playing football again. And so as the spring went on, he was very determined to continue and went to multiple specialists around the country. And to be here from that happening at the beginning of January to where we are now, at the beginning of June is nothing short of a miracle. That had to be such a traumatic experience as a leader of a team. What did you do to lead your team out of the depth? Yeah, I mean, it's funny. Sean and I kind of split it up. This happened in Cincinnati, as we all know. And so Sean and I and Terry Pagula, along with a few others, went to the hospital just to support the family and see where things were and crossing our fingers that they were going to be able to keep them alive. But after a couple hours, we had to make the decision to fly the team home. And we decided that was the best move. And so Sean and I huddled up and both of us wanted to be with the team in Buffalo and both of us wanted to be with Demar and his family in Cincinnati. And so we just thought it was best. He's in front of the team every day leading him. He goes with the team and I would stay there at the hospital with his family and kind of just be there to support them and make sure they have what they need. And so that's to me, that's how we chose to lead this thing is one of us to be there for the family to show how much Demar means to us and another. This definitely affected the rest of our team, our staff and getting, we brought in counselors immediately waiting on our team once they got back to Buffalo. And we had really open conversations with our players. Like when it's too soon to start back because you don't want to force someone out there if they're not ready to go. This is a tough sport to begin with. And so we listened, we dialogue, we talked to therapists ourselves and psychologists of what people are going through. People grieve and go through processes very differently. And so there's no handbook for this Dave. There's really not. But ultimately that was how we chose to manage this situation and lead our troops. As we move into this new season, is there anything we should be on to look out this year for the Buffalo Bills? Is there going to be a unique twist to what you do or is it more of the same, which is pretty damn good I'd say? Yeah, I mean, listen, you're always trying to tweak things and have some nuances and you change your personnel here or there. You know, one of the new things for us this year is Sean McDermott's going to go call. He's going to call our defense this year. He's still the head coach, but Leslie Frazier decided to step back this year as our defensive coordinator. And so Sean's, you know, he's energetic. He's excited. And so, you know, everyone has their own nuance to how they're going to call a game when you're a play caller. And so I think our players and I think our fans should be excited about just, you know, the newness, you know, the different energy, you know, coming from Sean and then just, you know, Ken Dorsey is our second year on, you know, as the offensive coordinator. And I know there's things that, listen, we did a lot of good things on offense last year. I think we finished statistically maybe second ranked in, you know, in the main categories, but there was a lot of things that I know Ken learned and hopefully we can improve on, you know, this year. So hoping to see both sides of the ball make some tweaks to, you know, help us take another step. Two more questions, you have what I imagine to be a 24/7 job. You're obviously passionate about it, especially during the season. You got to be working your ass off. You know, how do you balance that with family life, which I know is really important to you. Yeah, it is. It is. You know, I think, listen, you want to be successful. You know, one of the things my wife and I is, you know, we just, you want to make sure you set your kids up and you give them a better life than you had. So that's as long as you keep that in mind, I think you'll make the right decisions. And so yes, my youngest, I've got an older one in Alabama. He's just finished his second year, but, you know, growing up, even though it was crazy hours, I always asked my superiors when I was in Carolina, could I coach certain teams? Could I work my schedules? When possible? Sometimes you're out of town. You just can't do it. But once we moved up here, they were getting into high school. And so the coaching days were over for me to be able to do that, like I was able to do with youth sports, but just being at as many games as you can and supporting them through good and bad, you know, whether they didn't win a starting job, whether they missed a, you know, missed a play on the game, whatever, being there to support them, you know, really, you know, the best you can. It's a tough business. And sometimes you can't be there. But, you know, one of the things we stress here is be there for your kids, piano recitals, games, whenever possible, because our business requires so much time. And just finding that balance is important because if you don't have that balance, you're really not going to do a good job, you know, in my position. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader? I think, listen, I'm at my best when I'm listening and listening to others. I think sometimes as leaders, you're going through and you're feeling, man, I 've got to make this decision. I've got to make that. You're juggling, you know, a lot of balls in there at the same time. And sometimes you may not have time to listen to everyone the way they want, but finding the right time to sit down and make sure you give every one of voice and give them that opportunity. Brandon, I want to thank you so much for taking the time out to really share your thoughts. You know, I understand you're a three index in golf, which is kind of where I'm at right now. I understand, as you mentioned, that you're very competitive or people think that you're very competitive. And I look forward to playing you one day and seeing what happens out there on the green grass. I love it. I love a good match. A lot of good fun. It's always fun to get on the course and compete. And no, it's great to meet you a few weeks ago and enjoy being on here with you . And I look forward to us, you know, getting out on the links when it works out for our schedules. Well, it's easy to see why Brandon has earned that award as the NFL's top executive two of the last three years. And you know, when I tried to recognize him for it, he instantly gave credit to his team. That's just the kind of guy Brandon is. He knows it takes a whole team to build a winning culture. And he knows the example starts with him. I love how he's always looking for ways to be a little sharper, to get a little better, to find that competitive edge. And I can understand why with the job as complex as his, he's got to know a lot about a lot. And when he spots a gap in his knowledge, he is very intentional about filling it. He's pursued mentors and experts. He asks questions. He isn't afraid to jump into the day to day to learn. And he's always paying attention and making notes about new ideas. When you're intentional about knowing where you need to level up your expertise and you have a plan to go out and find it, you'll tap into a whole new level of growth. This week have the courage to sit down and ask where there's a gap in your know -how. Let me tell you, we've all got him. Ask yourself, what would be possible if you learned that new skill and closed that gap? Then brainstorm a few specific strategies to help you go out and get that knowledge. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders fill the gaps in their knowledge. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Scott Redler, the co-founder of Freddy's Steakburger's and Fries, and chairman of the National Restaurant Association, which supports over a million restaurants nationwide. There's a reward you get with helping others. It's seeing other people grow and watching other people succeed. And if you don't worry about yourself and worry about other people and their success and their family success and everything else, I think you win in life. It's not always about the money. The money happens. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [ Silence ]