Koula Callahan 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead up Kula Callahan here to bring you another edition of three more questions with David Novak. David, we've got a fun one today. I'm excited to be back on the show with you. Well,

David Novak 0:14 

I'm excited to cooler because we're gonna dive into my conversation with Yamini Roghan, the CEO of HubSpot, and she is an absolute Dynamo. And I just love this podcast. I

Koula Callahan 0:25 

know you've loved this podcast and my first question today, we'll get a little bit more into why you love this podcast with your money. So let's just dive right in.

Question number one, David, ever since you recorded this podcast, you have not stopped talking about Yamini Rangan. I mean, you light up like a Christmas tree every time someone says her name. What impressed you most about her?

David Novak 0:53 

Well, I think what really impressed me the most is that she was the chief customer officer, and she continues to be a chief customer officer as the CEO. You know, this woman knew as much about me, as I knew about her when we got on the podcast. Now I do a lot of research, I really take a lot of pride in learning about the people that I'm going to interview. And she had done her research, too, she had looked at some of my books, she had been on Wikipedia, she'd gone online, she'd done all these things. And she knew so much about me. And I have to tell you, her preparation was so amazing that it almost startled me. And it really put pressure on me because now, I not only wanted to do a great podcast, I wanted to do a super great podcast, I wanted to make sure that I didn't let her down that I actually met her high expectations. And it really kind of showed me why she's such a great salesperson. Because you know, she gets prepared for her customers. She understands how our customers think she learns about our customers. And then when she gets in that meeting with the customer, she absolutely blows them away with her knowledge of the business and the knowledge of that person. And that's her secret. And let me tell you something that is a tremendous secret for everybody to think about in sales or whatever function you might be in, get prepared. If you're going to have a meeting with somebody, make sure you know everything you can about what you're going to talk about who you're going to be talking to, and really get ready to make a real positive difference in that person, slide and that businesses results in, you're going to have a lot of success, she is proof positive that you can see I got pretty excited just talking about that preparation that she showed me also showed me a tremendous amount of respect. I mean, she respected me, she took the time to learn about me. That was recognition. You know, and I think everybody likes recognition like that. I

Koula Callahan 2:58 

love seeing you get so excited talking about your money, but also talking about how coming prepared to meetings or conversations or one on ones with the people that you manage, coming to those meetings prepared, show such an immense amount of respect that you have for that person, because really what everybody is vying for in this world, whether it's from your consumers or your employees is your time. And if someone is willing to give up an hour of their time to get to know you and to record a podcast episode, showing them that you respect their time enough to do all this research about them really goes a long way. Absolutely.

David Novak 3:31 

And what I really think it taught me was when someone does that kind of preparation for you, then you want to do the very best you can to make them look as good as they possibly can. That's why I really enjoy Germany so much I look forward to meeting or someday in person.

Koula Callahan 3:49 

Question number two Yamini came into the CEO role and a bit of an unorthodox manner. She took over a CEO from the founder of HubSpot, and in the episode you asked her about how she became her own CEO, and the footsteps of the founder she took over from and she said what helped her most was focusing on the future of HubSpot, and then working backwards from that vision to create the reality of the company she wanted to lead. David, what other advice can you give CEOs who are taking over from founders of companies, particularly in a scenario when the company is healthy and thriving?

David Novak 4:25 

Well, I think when you take over for a founder, you're obviously taken over for somebody who's had enormous success and gotten the company to where it is today. And I think the most important thing you can do is recognize that your job now is this new CEO, this new leader. And I think this goes for when you take over a new team. And let's say you take over a team and that team had had a really highly popular leader that everybody like working for. The last thing you want to have happen is people on that team To say, Well, I remember when so and so did this. And I remember when so and so did this. No, that's the worst thing that can ever happen to you. You don't want to have people remembering what other people did. You want to have people remembering what you're doing with them. And you need to really create new memories. And I think that's what someone should do. Anytime you take over a team is start creating new memories with that team. Now at the same time, you need to respect what's preceded you, you need to respect the founder, and you know, learn from the founder, one of the things I would say is that if you take over for a founder, or you take over for a director, or you take over for another Vice President, you know, you don't really understand what made the prior person successful. What made other people want to work with them, how did they get the results really go after that kind of knowledge. And, you know, a lot of times what I see is people take over jobs, and they can't wait to just eliminate the person that they took over for, they can't wait to wipe out the thought of anybody thinking about that that prior person or the founder, because their egos so big that they want to be seen as the new person. And so they don't really tap into the knowledge and the know how that the people that they're taking over for obviously have. And clearly Yamini really understood the balance between respecting the past, but knowing that her job is to create a new future that everybody can get excited about.

Koula Callahan 6:38 

Another thing Yeah, many talks about a lot in the episode is the process she went through to find her voice, and to figure out the true authentic version of who she was and how she wanted to lead. So I think another great exercise for anybody taking over a team of any size is to find that balance, like yami did between honoring the past and making new memories, and then also figuring out who you are finding your voice and then really leaning into that. So you can do all of those things authentically.

David Novak 7:09 

You know, that kind of takes me back to when I first became president of PepsiCo division, and it was KFC and, and, you know, I always wanted to be a president of a division. And now I had a chance to do that job. So I'm on this flight. And I asked myself this really important question, which is, what kind of President am I going to be? And I thought about all the presidents of the PepsiCo divisions, and they were very formal, they were MBAs, they were very serious, you know, they kind of had a little bit of emotional detachment from the people that they they lead so that they can make the so called tough calls. And I thought about myself, and I said, you know, I'm not really that kind of person. You know, I like getting emotionally engaged with people, you know, I like to have fun, you know, I've got some blue suits, but I usually take the coat off. And when I'm walking around the office, you know, with my red tie, that's already got a couple spots on it, my shirt tails hanging out, and, you know, that's just who I am. So I kind of just said to myself, what kind of President you're going to be, as well, I'm going to be the same kind of President, that I have been leader that's gotten me to this place, and I'm gonna be true to who I am. And I think, you know, being true to who I am, being open, being vulnerable, being transparent, you know, being honest with people not worry about getting close to people, because I may have to fire him someday, you know, continuing to lead like a voice lead, was the key to my success. And I think once you do that people really will invest in you, as well. And that didn't mean that I didn't make the tough decisions I did, I probably fired more people than most people, because I did have high standards, but I always did it with as much respect as I could give to other people. And you know what, when those tough situations happen, you know, I could really sit down and have a learning conversation, not only learning that would go to the person who might be getting the tough feedback, but also learning that would come back to me that would help me be a good leader.

Koula Callahan 9:20 

Question number three, I love when Yamini talks about the culture at HubSpot, they treat their culture as one of their products, and they continue to evolve that culture in the same way that they evolve their products. In fact, they have a culture code that's been updated over 100 times since it began. David, what's something leaders can learn from treating their culture as a product? Well, I think

David Novak 9:43 

what that basically says is that your culture is very, very important. You know, the products that you create, and produce, you know, that's how you make money typically. And what she's saying there is that They know that the way how they're going to produce the best products drive the most efficiency, get the very best results is through the culture that they create. And so if that's true, then why not treat a product, which is your lifeblood, why not treat the culture like your product, it just makes so much sense. But you know, I find that the really good leaders are very good at really creating word pictures, you know, your culture as a product, that's a great word picture for me, you know, and it says that you're going to continually improve it, and you're going to do everything invested in and and do everything you can to make sure you beat your competition on that front. And if you do that, with your culture, boy, the results that you're gonna get are going to be phenomenal. So I just love that.

Koula Callahan 10:53 

I love it, too. I think of products as things that create value for customers. And with culture being a product, it's something that creates value for employees, which then in turn creates value for customers. So I totally agree with you, David, I think it's such a beautiful way to look at the culture that you can create as a company because it has the ability to massively impact the quality of life, not only for the people that work for you, but for your customers as well.

David Novak 11:22 

Yeah, and you know, I've studied a lot of great companies and a lot of great leaders. All of them will really cite the importance of culture being the most important thing that they can do to really ensure the success of their organization or their team. And, you know, I think knowing that is such a critical insight. And then, you know, thinking of your culture as a product and continuously improving, it is a great way to think about.

Koula Callahan 11:57 

Well, that wraps our episode of three more questions for today. Thanks again for tuning in to how leaders lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well, and

David Novak 12:13 

I want you to tune in Thursday as we dive into my conversation with Jim Levine. He is a world renowned literary agent that's had something to do with many, many of the books that you've read, including a couple of mine