Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Dan Hurley, the head men's basketball coach at the University of Connecticut. If you watched last year's March Madness tournament, then you know he's the guy that led the Huskies to win the NCAA title. And boy, it was a heck of a lot of fun to watch him and his team absolutely dominate that tournament. Now think about it. Here's this incredible coach who reached what's got to be the pinnacle of success for collegiate coaching. But you know what, when you listen to him, you would never know it. And you're about to hear, there's a relentless drive and work ethic to the way that Dan leads. And it's a powerful reminder that no matter what level of success you're at now , you've always got to find a way to keep pushing yourself to the next level. And Dan's going to show you how it's done. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Dan Hurley. You're coming off of a 34-point win last night, which is nice. You know, what do you say to your team after that? And you know, how do you keep them on edge a little bit? Last night was probably one of the harshest critiques or one of the most disappointing locker room post-mortems that I could recall. We played so far below our championship standards in terms of doing the hard things well on the court. It was a window dressing score, but we were, we didn't function very well as a team. So bad locker room. You led UConn, obviously, last year of the national championship. And can you tell us a behind the scenes story from winning the title that most people haven't heard of? Well, most people know I was wearing the dragon underwear, the whole tournament , all the way to the championship. I would say being at the White House and maybe the team leaves, you're with the president and you take a picture with the president, President Biden, which was super cool. And then the team goes into another room, I guess, whatever, the media room, wherever they do their press conferences. And I had about five minutes by myself with Joe Biden, because me and him just kind of walked into that room and then the ceremony started. So I had five minutes with Joe Biden by myself, and I just, I didn't know what the hell to talk about. The basketball coach. I just remember it being an awkward, long, five minutes. I don't think he knew like that much about basketball. And I know nothing about politics. Well, you know, in the championship, how long does a highlight that last? I mean, that feeling of being the top of the college basketball world, before you have to say, all right, everybody, it's time to get back to work. Just for me, it was a week from Monday night, winning the championship to, you know, when I got up that next Monday morning and had a team meeting and started setting the tone for the off-season program, summer program, our goals for next season. So probably a week, but then it's also something that I think in times where we 're not practicing, we're not recruiting, we're not, you know, doing, you know, coaching, you know, development, or raising money for NIL or working on scheduling, whenever we're not working. It did take the time to, you know, maybe play a song or that reminded me of being in Houston and winning it, like looking up at the championship banner in a practice facility, giving myself kind of moments of appreciation in between working hard. Every years ago in my research, I saw that you had this viral moment telling the media, people better be getting us now because it's coming, you know. What's that statement say about your leadership style? Well, number one, especially nowadays with social media, when you're losing, it 's bad, you know, and I was in year two and there wasn't the huge difference in terms of the bottom line results, but there was a major improvement in terms of the quality of the organization, the talent on the court with the players, the coaching staff had improved, our culture in terms of how much we cared, it was so much better, our preparation and maturity, just everything about us, you know, had change except the results, but they were getting a lot narrower and our talent level was increasing. So, you know, we took a tough loss on the road and I knew that we were getting closer and I knew I had, you know, I had the people on board and it was just a matter of time in terms of just maturing as an organization and learning how to win. So I threw that one out there, mostly to galvanize the fan base, you know, because, you know, you win the national championship, you know, the most in the last 25 years of any program in the country, the fans start getting restless. So I threw that out there, but I also believed it. Deon Sanders, coach prime, he said the same thing after Oregon just kicked their butt. He said, "You better get us now." What do you think of his coaching style and what you've observed with what he's done in Colorado? Yeah, you see, you know, somebody there who brings, you know, a couple of things I think is, you know, credible amount of confidence and swagger, which this is all about performance under pressure. So a coach that could provide his group with confidence and swagger going into the most pressure-packed moments of their life, obviously incredible value from that standpoint. And I love his honesty. You know, I think the best thing that you could do for someone that you're coaching or someone that you're developing is be honest with them about, you know, what they're good at and where they need to get better, where they're hurting themselves and holding themselves back. So that's what I love about prime. Well, unlike Colorado, which has really struggled in football, you're at UConn, and as you mentioned, you are an elite, if not the most elite college basketball program in the country. There's got to be a gigantic spotlight on you right now. I know there is. And how do you handle that kind of pressure? Yeah, playing, you know, playing or coaching basketball at UConn. It's the basketball capital of the world. You know, the women's program with 11 national championships and Gino Ariema, you know, one of the legendary coaches. And I replaced, you know, one coach down the line, but I replaced Jim Calhoun, another Mount Rushmore of greatest college coaches of all time. You know, when this job became available to me, I'm a very driven person. I was coaching at the University of Rhode Island. I wanted to get myself to a program where I had all of the resources available, you know, to me to develop and compete at an elite level, improve myself to be an elite coach, UConn is in stores, Connecticut. There's not a whole lot here besides a world-class university, an incredible love for basketball, and an ability to really focus because stores is not South Beach. So it's the perfect place to develop young people, help them develop and acquire new skills quickly, put together a culture that's based around constant improvement and build an incredible bond amongst the team. This is a tough job though. You got to be a certain type of coach to coach here because you're going to be held against the absolute highest standards. It's like championships or bust. Not everyone's meant to coach or work in an environment like that. I think they earmarked me as being a tough kid from Jersey that comes from a very competitive family that he would have the type of thick skin to not only survive here but thrive. I couldn't help but looking at what you have on your office walls and you've got that famous Teddy Roosevelt quote, "The man in the arena." Is that your favorite quote from any leader? Yeah, I think so. Or certainly pre-championship, no doubt. Now I think it's funny, it's like the critics I think prior to really breaking through in March and April, that was something I had to look at a lot because the external noise was something that affected me. With the big breakthrough moment in April, I could give a shit what the outside world thinks of decisions I'm making right now as a leader of the program because of my heart of hearts as a 50-year-old head coach, we achieved the pinnacle of the sport. Now I know my way works. We feel like we've got the formula and the blueprint and we have insane work ethic and drive. I feel like that Teddy Roosevelt helped me for a long time and now maybe it helps me less because I don't even think about the critics. That's great. What's insane work ethic to you? It's an 11 and a half month a year grind here. That's recruiting, getting ahead and recruiting on younger high school prospects or recruiting your current class where you're trying to bring in the best recruiting class in the country. It's obviously your season, your games and your performance on game night. It's the level that you practice at, the expertise and the way that you run a practice, not only the drills and instructions but the energy, the intensity, the pace of it. I just think it's a coaching staff that while our team is in a weight room working to get stronger, we're trying to become better leaders. We're trying to master the art of coaching which includes so many different things. Motivation and psychology, tactics, personal development, player development, the way that you market or brand your program, the way that you recruit. My wife on days where I look tired when I come home, my wife would make fun of me. Hey, you're just a gym teacher. Why do you look so tired? Most people don't understand the intricacies and all the different parts and aspects of coaching mastery. How have you gotten better at building brandy like the Yukon brand? You talked about that being an important aspect. Yeah, I think we went out and hired a team to run our social media because it was not up to par. It was well below national championship standards. We went out and hired a team and allowed them to get embedded deeper in the program and we had in November the number one most interacted with social media in all college basketball. Fantastic. I want to talk to you more about how you're leading the Yukon. But first I want to take you back. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today ? Childhood. It's going to be something involving definitely my dad who's 80% of what I do as a coach is what I learned from a Hall of Fame high school coach of a dad. I would say the story for me is we're playing Little League. Maybe I'm in fourth grade, fifth grade. My dad's waiting for me. We're going to go meet my grandmother in Long Beach Island at the Jersey Shore. My brother's already down there. My mom's already down there. I've got some family down there. My dad had me stay and play the Little League game on Friday before we went for the weekend. I think I'm the tying run. I'm at second base and last inning and I get picked off second base for the last out of the game. I think a couple girls from my Grammar School were riding by on their bikes in the street. I think I might have been looking at them and got picked off second base. You'll have that car ride to the shore. Back then there was no podcast or XM radio. So doing those cell phones to distract you. So that was like three hours of incredible, uncomfortableness on the Jersey Turnpike. Like never letting down your guard in preparation, in competition. Just always being ready in sports. Your dad is a Hall of Famer, an amazing record. 26 state championships I think in high school. What would be the single most important thing he taught you about leadership? He had all these kind of like woodenisms, right? And he'd use them in practice and then he would always make the larger life lesson for the boys, right? So it was like use the backboard or dunk the ball. No stylistic finger roll in front of the rim. Like use the glass or dunk the ball. So like be about substance over style. Two hands on everything. So pass the ball, catch the ball, rebound the ball, right? Like don't take anything for granted in life. You know, be quick, don't hurry. All these woodenisms, I think he would always take back to larger life aspects. I understand you were quite the basketball player yourself. You went to Seton Hall. You played for PJ Carlissimo. How did that experience shape the person and the coach that you've become? Yeah, I think for me, Dave, I blew it at the college level as a player. It haunts me from time to time. As a high school player, I was a top flight prospect. And I was a really talented player that didn't apply himself in every way at the college level and did not play up to my abilities. I let my college teammates down. I let my organization down. I let the coaching staff that invested in me down as a player. I think about that a lot because I'm involved in basketball. Yeah, so yeah, I'm not a lawyer. That part of my life is closed. So I think now though, Dave, I over pour into my coaching. It's like I know I could have did more and now I'm going to make up for it in my career as a coach in terms of just pouring everything that I have into that. And I give all of my energy into this, my leadership, my coaching, UConn basketball, and into my family. And then I don't have a whole lot of time for much else. Dan, when did you have that light bulb moment where you said, "I want to be a coach"? I would probably say Alan Iverson, he scored 39 on me. My senior year, I think I got off to a good start. He averaged like 15, maybe 16 points a game, which in the big East back then, that was right in line with somebody that was a potential NBA player. And I remember playing that game in Washington, D.C. He dropped 39 on me and it was not much I could do. But then I also knew I would be a coach when I got to college and I was finishing. My college coaches is their sentences in practice when they were instructing us . I was that well, would you get coach to the level that my dad did with me and my brother, not only his children, but eventually his players for him? It's the family business. If you were going to break down your coaching philosophy into its simplest form , what would it be? Really it's all about development, personal development, skill development, better people, smarter people are going to make better decisions. Basketball, it's like all about making quick decisions. Do I shoot? Do I pass? Do I cut? Do I switch? It's all these quick decisions that require high levels of skill. Skill and developing sharper, clearer thinkers. What's a one-on-one coaching session with you like? When you take one player aside and you work with them for a specific amount of time, what's it like? What do you do? How we try to work individually, I'll try to meet with each kind of member of the team, I'd say maybe once a week, once every 10 days. With that individual, the personal touch, the relationship building, asking about the family, asking about how he's doing as a human being on a college campus, and then touching on how the basketball piece is going and what more the organization needs from them. And then I think from a team standpoint, the secret sauce for us is how hard we practice and how intense the environment is. We try to make our practice sessions chaotic. There's no fouls called. There's no water breaks. It is the most intense and the fastest-paced thing and the most stressful experience that our players will go through. So I think when they show up on game night, the secret sauce is game night feels a little bit slower and a little bit more comfortable, which I think is what I learned from my dad. As a leader, culture is so important in any organization. Have you articulated the cultural behaviors that you want for the UConn team so that everybody knows them? And what are the major drivers of your culture and how do you as a leader reinforce it? Yeah, so work ethic, we have this blue collar mentality in the program. I recruit coaches to work for me that have incredible passion for the game. They have to love being a part of this tribe and want to invest absolutely everything they have into their obsession, which is basketball for us, our passion. So they have to love it as much as I love it. Or else I cannot bring them in here. Because when the person that cares too much meets the person that doesn't care enough, things can tend to get very, very bumpy. So we're based on just like the work ethic has got to be there. It's got to meet mine. I mean, I don't have a lot of hobbies. I don't have a lot of balance. It's like, I love basketball. I love my, in a good way. I love the cult that I'm a part of. And then I love my family. There's a lot of problems with the problems with the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. 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And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. And I love the problems that I'm a part of. One of the things that you said was no suggesting. What goes into that thinking? Yeah, I mean, most of these guys aren't, you know, aren't that good yet. You know, if I was an MBA coach and, you know, I was coaching maybe a veteran that had won a lot. And I was a student at the university and was all about winning. Not a stats guy, but an actual winning player? Yeah, I would definitely be interested in, hey, what did you see? But most of the players I'm coaching, you know, they're just not at that point. And maybe the first time that they've ever been told no, or you're wrong, or the first time that they've really been coached hard, they're AAU coaches are afraid that they're going to transfer out of their schools. So they're afraid to coach them. Or their parents are just acting like fans instead of parents. You know, so for me, a big part of my job is to push them to points that they can't get themselves. And a lot of that type of work is, you know, I've got to challenge them and I 've got to push them. But they know I love them. I invest the time in them. So they let me do my job. How hard is it for you, or is it hard for you at all to really have an emotional distance from your players to be the, you know, to be the tough guy when you have to be? For me, I understand, you know, the two different roles I've got to play for them. You know, in the preparation and in the practices, I've got to push for game- like reps so that on game night, they can execute. On game night, I go to boxing trainer in the corner with the fighter, pumping them up, building up their confidence. So you've got this practice persona where you push for the preparation. And then on game night, you become that person that's trying to convince them throughout the game that they can do anything. Any anger you see on game night for me is always at the referees. You know, let's say you're a player on your team and you're a good shooter, but you go into the slump. And I'm sure that's happened to you many times with some great shooters you have. How do you build confidence in people when there's a right for maybe them to start doubting themselves? You keep running place for them. You keep putting together highlight edits of their career, hitting their biggest shots to their favorite songs. And you make sure you're getting it to them the day before game, two days before game. That constant communication and look at them in the eyes and tell them that they're the best shooter in the country. You know, your team in 2023 was considered one of the most dominant teams in the history of March Madness. And it takes some serious effort to assemble a team like that. You know, how do you lead on the recruiting front? I mean, because you've got to be a hell of a recruiter to get the talent that you get to go to UConn. It's just a great school, but you said it's not Miami Beach. Yeah. Well, I think number one, it starts with a locker room or an office space that's going to vibe. That's just that's got a good mixture of personalities. We had some introverts. We had some some extroverts. You know, we had some some fire. We had some ice. But we all had really good people with good pedigree. And we were very, very honest in the recruiting process about the roles that we needed filled. So there was no one in the locker room that was coerced or condensed to come here with a false idea of what was going to be asked to them in the program and what their role would be. So I learned a lot through failure about roster architecture, both personalities, skill sets and role identification. Can you tell us a story from one of those learnings? I would say we had a we had a player, a young man from California, not many Californians come to stores Connecticut to play for the Huskies. But we had a kid named Joey Calcatera, who's from San Diego, who could have gone to other schools, kind of somewhere near our level of college basketball that we're offering him a chance to start and play way more minutes. And he got on his visit with us at UConn. And I said, Joey, listen, you may not get on the court. You may be able to fight and get yourself 10 or 12 minutes a game at UConn. The easier road is these places that are offering you a starting spot. But if you come here and earn yourself 10 minutes a game, you may be the difference between not playing in the NCAA tournament, winning the national championship. Joey did the hard thing. He came to UConn. He was an absolute flame thrower off the bench for us. And I nicknamed him Joey California, and he sold a bunch of NIL Merck. So it worked out great for everybody. Speaking of NIL, what kind of impact has NIL and the transfer portal had on your program specifically? Yeah, I think our approach has been to be proactive with talking about and talking to players in your program when you feel the discontent building. I think in the past during the season, we've kind of avoided speaking openly to our players about decisions like those, whereas I think in 2023, we're talking to our team about staying the course. Don't talk to people close to you about transferring. We're in the past. We would almost just kind of wait until the season's over. It was like the elephant in the room. NIL, they'll listen. I say to my players, I expect more from you guys than any college basketball players ever given because you guys are getting things that college basketball players, some of the greatest who have ever played the sport that have paved the road for you, who barely got meal money. I had a great opportunity to go to Encinito, California. I spent like a morning with John Wood. I remember him telling me that the first time he got an extra tall player, which is how he described his seven footer. He said he'd never coached him before. So I went and met with all these coaches and players who were seven foot tall or coached people. How do you sharpen your axe? How do you go about getting better and better each year as a coach? For me, it's just film study. It's being real structured, I think, with your schedule, I think, in the morning for me. It's like from six to eight o'clock. I think it's exercise. It's spiritual. It 's mindfulness. It's getting myself kind of primed for the day. I get into the office and I spend my first couple hours just studying offense, studying defense, watching the NBA, watching European professional basketball, watching Division III women's team in Wisconsin, looking for a zone play versus an out-under defense. I think it's just putting in the time, trying to study and learn. You talked about your assistant coaches and I know one of your goals is to help them all become head coaches. How do you get them ready for that? I think by modeling, I think I do a great job of modeling the habits, the behaviors, the energy level, the work ethic. I guess how seriously I take to try to get as close to mastery of the different aspects of coaching and how that's an everyday journey and something that you'll never master. And then I think you're pushing them. I think not allowing them to settle. You're getting them to promote themselves as well, which is something that a lot of them are comfortable with. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Dan Hurley in just a moment . You know, when you reach a milestone of success, like winning a national championship, it can be easy to rest on your laurels. But the ability to fight complacency is a quality I see a lot in great leaders, including NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. In our episode of Howlators Lead, Roger talks about the importance of calling out that kind of complacency when you see it. One of the big challenges I had when I became Commissioner is the league was so successful that when you start talking about, "Well, we should do this and we should do that. We should focus on this." A lot of people reacted to saying, "Why? We're already successful?" And my answer to that is because we can get better. And it's sometimes harder to drive change in a successful organization for that reason, that people are somewhat resistant to change and why take the risk. We're already at a great level. My view is the NFL has got so much more potential and we can grasp that and we can achieve that. If we continue to be smart about the decisions we make, we continue to act like we're number two and continue to find new ways of doing things. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Roger Goodell, episode 99, here on Howlators Lead. You push your guys hard, your assistants hard, your team members hard. I've also heard you talk a little bit about your approach when the lights are on. I mean, what's different on game day for you? A good part of the season, David Fluxuates, between some level of suffering and different levels of relief. With some joy mixed in there after a huge road win or what have you. Generally, it fluctuates between suffering and relief until you get to March. And then I think when March hits, when it's conference tournament, it's NCAA tournament, now you almost start really going for it. You've mentioned this word that I find very interesting a few times in this podcast, mastery. Tell me about your pursuit of mastery and why you talk about that so much. I just think when you're a coach that is no longer at that point, that you should get out. Then you're no longer giving your players and the people that work for you, everything that they deserve. So if every single day on this job, if you're not pushing yourself to learn better ways of recruiting presentations or branding your program or your recruiting pitch or your tactics versus man defense or a new drill that you could develop better pastors and the psychology of leadership. And once those things don't excite you and have you almost feeling insecure or not measuring up, once you're not fearful that you're not good enough as a coach anymore, I think it's time to get out. I'll tell you, Dan, this is so much fun. I want to have a little bit more with you here before I let you go. I have a lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? All right. What's one word others would use to best describe you? Complex. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Complex. Who would play you in a movie? I was told years ago Billy Bob Thornton, but that's because I curse a lot and the bad Santa Billy Bob. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Jose Mourinho. As a coach, what's your biggest pet peeve? Breaking game day superstitions. You're a number one game day superstition. It all starts with the underwear, dragons, wolves or sharks. What's the first word or phrase that comes to mind when I say George Brett? Idol. And how about when I say Jersey City? Dogs. John Wooden. The goat. Test. Bob Knight. Mount Rushmore goats. Dean Smith. Mount Rushmore goats. Jim Calhoun. Mount Rushmore goats. What's something about being a coach most people will never appreciate. The responsibility. Who's your go to Peloton instructor? Just King. What are a couple of your required reads for your players? Books. The alchemist, I love for them. And then I would say how champions think by Dr. Bob Bertella. What's something about you a few people would know? I'm really spiritual. That's the end of the lightning round. Great job. And I have just a few more questions. I'll let you go. One of the guys I worked for, Tim Schur, wrote this great book, Secret Society of Success, and you gave it to your staff. What was it about that book that you thought was so good? I just think what makes people successful, the secrets are out there. You know, they're really smart people, you know, like Tim and yourself. They're right books and podcasts. You know, so the habits, the mindsets, the behaviors, the things you could do to help you become a more successful person that's going to raise your self-esteem and raise your confidence and help lead you to a happier, more fulfilling life, like the information's out there. Read it. Learn it. Apply it. You know, as you think about this upcoming season, Dan, what needs to happen before you would say it's a success? You have to just feel like we got, I think, you know, two things. It's got the most out of the team. You'll reach our absolute potential in terms of winning as often as we should based on, you know, how good we are. And that, you know, that enough of the individuals have increased their value by the way we performed. What would be your unfinished business? Do you still feel like you have something to prove? I mean, you obviously got the monkey off your back. You got that national championship. But how do you look at the future? I think like anyone else that pushes themselves hard, you know, the goalposts always move. So for me, I think, you know, I always dreamed of winning a national championship. You know, now you dream of becoming a Hall of Fame coach. So, you know, I just think that the goalposts always move and you always want the next thing. What would you be doing if you weren't coaching, Dan? I'm curious. You know what? I had an interest in maybe being a lawyer. I think law always interests me. That's something that a few people would know, I'm sure. With my college grades, I don't think I would have gotten into many law schools . So it's a good thing I paid attention to Pops. Last question here. What's the best piece of advice you can give to aspiring leaders? Your work at it, it's also, it's got to be in your heart. You've got to be somebody that's like energized by being a leader. And it also, like leadership does get more comfortable. The comfort level of speaking and inspiring the group in a meeting setting or right before competition or you just, you get better at all aspects of leading and coaching if you keep working at it. You know, just listening to you, Dan, I mean, you're all over it. You're having a blast. You're working your ass off. There's no question about that. But when you think about it, you know, what if you had to give up to get to where you are? Is there anything you've had to give up to really achieve the kind of success you have? Yeah, I would say probably some friendships. You know, some friendships I've probably lost along the way. You know, maybe, you know, hobby, you know, maybe like a golf or some type of hobby that I guess people like. But, you know, the two things that I give all my time to or two things that I just, I love so incredibly, which is, you know, I love basketball and I love the cult that I'm a part of at UConn. And my wife, Andrea, and my kids, like that's where I want all my time to go and my family. Dan, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to be on this podcast and sharing your insights. I really appreciate you. I wish you all the best this year and hope you get another national championship. You know, I've been a UConn fan for quite a while. I lived in Wilton, Connecticut when I was with Pepsi. So I got a little bit of heart for you guys. So keep it going. Yes, you know what the winters are like here. They make you tough. Yeah. Well, I could tell one thing for sure. You are not a wimp, okay? You are a tough guy. I don't think I could have played for you. Of course, I couldn't have played for too many people anyway. Okay. It's all good. Thanks, buddy. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Well, no doubt about it. Dan Hurley is one passionate guy. It's great to see how his intensity and his love for what he does shines through and every word he says. And that passion really drives him day in and day out. Yeah, sure. He passed in the glory of winning that NCAA championship. But you know what? He only took a week to do it. Then it was back to work, watching film, recruiting and thinking about how he is going to run those intense practices. And you know, because he really models that passion and drive in his own life, he's able to get the same kind of intensity from his coaching staff and his players. They buy in and believe more because they can see that Dan walks the talk. He's always pushing himself to do better, to learn more, and Dan reminds us there's no substitute for that kind of work ethic. It's the hallmark of great leaders in every walk of life. No matter what the task is, they roll up their sleeves and dive in. They put in the hours to stay sharp. Sure, they celebrate their success, but then they look to that next big goal and start pushing themselves to reach it. Now, as you probably know, this is the point in the podcast where I offer a bit of coaching to help you apply this big idea to your week. I'm tempted to tell you to go out and just buy a pair of lucky underwear. It seems to be working great for Dan. But as fun as those game day superstitions are, you and I both know that his success has way more to do with his incredible work ethic and drive. So with that in mind, I want you to look at one place in your life that could use a little more of that kind of intensity. Ask yourself, where have you gotten a little complacent? And what would it look like to push yourself in that area? That relentless drive to stay sharp has served Dan well in his career, and I know it will be a difference maker for you too. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders keep pushing themselves. And coming up next on how leaders lead is Admiral Mike Mullen. This is a guy who keeps pushing himself, and he was the 17th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. All leaders have to have people around them who will close the door and say, "You got this exactly wrong." And I was blessed to have a guy named John Kirby who was my public affairs officer for ten years and is now on the National Security Council. But when he was in uniform with me, he's the one that would close the door and say, "You got that completely wrong." And I expected that. That's never easy medicine to take. But it was really important medicine to have. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]