David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Mark King, the CEO of Taco Bell. Now, of course, Taco Bell was already an iconic brand when Mark took over in 2019. But he has helped them achieve even more success and innovation. He is passionate, he is energetic, and I kid you not. He even had the Taco Bell logo shaved into the side of his head at one point, if that tells you anything about the kind of leader you're going to learn about. But that's the thing about Mark, he's not afraid to go big. In fact, he believes leaders have to set big aspirational goals. That's what he's doing at Taco Bell. And he's also how he has had incredible turnarounds at both TaylorMade and Adidas North America, you know, it's not enough to just aim for incremental growth. If you really want to disrupt the status quo, you've got to chase something extraordinary. This is one of those conversations that I gotta tell you, is going to leave you buzzing with practical ideas and big time inspiration. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Mark King.

When you first joined Taco Bell, I remember hearing this in the grapevine because I'd already left as the CEO of yum brands. But you went to the annual Taco Bell convention, as I understand it, and you had the logo, the Taco Bell logo shaved into the side of your head. You know, what on earth made you do that? Well, David, that's funny,

Mark King 1:55 

you would start with that. But the first week that I started in August of 2019, if you remember, in those people listening, we had the launching of the Taco Bell hotel. It was a four day party out in Palm Springs, we took over this little boutique hotel invited a lot of our cult followers. Anyway, I got caught up in the moment and they had this barber that was putting tattoos into your hair do so I just said I'm all in on Taco Bell. So Carvin in the side of my head, so I had that showing for months, David, it was awesome. What do you think that says about your leadership style, I wanted people here at taco bell to know that I was all in that I shared the same love and passion for the brand that they did. And what I learned David, in brands is if you don't really love the brand, it's hard to lead the brand. And so I thought that would really represent Hey, I'm all in guys.

David Novak 2:54 

I love it. And you've been in the CEO position before. But when you stepped into Taco Bell, what's something that caught you by surprise, something that you didn't expect? I

Mark King 3:05 

came from the golf industry, and then the footwear industry. And those products are very aspirational. So the consumers in those categories, they love their products. And when I got here, I didn't know people could actually love a taco, or a burrito, or a crunch wrap or a case of DHEA. And people are consumers, our employees, they are just as passionate about the products we make here as they were at Adidas or tailor made. And it's not that I didn't think people liked the product, but they deeply are emotionally attached to these products. And that just jumped off the page to me. What

David Novak 3:43 

was the biggest challenge? You saw Mark in the in the business, you know, almost straight away? Well,

Mark King 3:47 

I think it was complacency, David. And you know, this, you were here for many, many years, the Taco Bell brand had been on a 15 year run when I got here, same store sales growth every year net new unit growth every year. And it's hard and you know, this probably better than I do. When you're 15 years of success. Where do you go from there? How do you keep pushing yourself and challenging yourself? So I really thought the biggest challenge was complacency and not to continue just to keep doing what we've been doing. But to find new things to do.

David Novak 4:20 

You know, you've said and I love this quote of yours. If incremental ism is what drives your business, you're not going to last very long. Talk more about that. Well, I

Mark King 4:29 

think we live in a world, David, where when you and I started and you're a little older than me, but not that much every year it was if you could grow to 3% You were happy and you manage the expenses, you grew the top line, you were profitable. But today's world is changing so rapidly, that if you're only growing incrementally to three 4% Somebody is going to come in and do it better, faster and cheaper. And if when that happens, there's disruption. And so I'm a big believer that you have to be on two paths. Run the railroad, that's the incremental, but then we have to be chasing something that disrupts the industry disrupts the status quo. So I just think we should be chasing extraordinary. You know,

David Novak 5:11 

you've done a fantastic job of getting out of that complacency and moving beyond the two to 3%. What do you do more to drive performance of the business on your team? And, and could you give me a, for instance of this in action?

Mark King 5:24 

Here's what I believe, David, that, you know, leadership when you started, or when I started was all really about how great the leader was, and their knowledge, wisdom and experience. And so I just believe that Unlocking Potential of people is really where greatness comes from. So when I came here, we had a reputation Taco Bell has a reputation of being innovative, but I didn't really see this constant pursuit of innovation. So we launched this program called the internal incubator, and we invited 60 to 80 people, every quarter, we gave the 60 to 80 people, a business challenge, and we brought in a creative facilitator to help find new creative ideas, how do we come back to work? How do we find iconic value, so we engage the people in finding solutions to the future and all walks of life from an L four all the way up to a VP? So I think by sharing the ownership of the future, you get people to think, challenge and find new ways to do things.

David Novak 6:27 

What's one thing that came out of that incubator that really surprised you? Actually,

Mark King 6:32 

a lot of things. So we've had probably 10 incubators since I've been here. And every one of them ends up with about 70 ideas, some small, some big, the biggest, and I think at Yum, we are the leader in getting people to come back to work into the office. So we have a hybrid. But one of the big challenges in this incubator was how do we create the Taco Bell culture in this new world, this hybrid world? So we handed it off to 60 people? And they figured out what were the hours? How many days? What do we do culturally? What do we do for fun? What do we do for seriousness, how do groups work together? And we didn't solve that as an executive team. We solved it with the people that do the work, we have a total of about 700 people here at the the RSC and we average about 600 people Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. And I think that's important to be together to find new solutions. So that was one of the big breakthroughs from the incubator.

David Novak 7:32 

I love it. And you know, I remember when we were together, once you were talking about Taco Bell, the power of the brand, and you actually consider Taco Bell, you said to be a category have one. Explain what you mean by that? Well,

Mark King 7:45 

I think we live in this space of of QSR, which is about food, it's about ease, and it's about value. And I think Taco Bell is really the only and they use this word, and I don't really like it, but I'm going to use it. It's almost a lifestyle brand. It's so it's a way to think about life. It's about energy. And it's about live moss, and and I think we're the only ones that really live in that space. And so that's how I think about

David Novak 8:12 

it. Mark, I got to ask, if you were going to break down your leadership philosophy into its simplest form, what would it be?

Mark King 8:19 

I believe that we have to try to do something extraordinary. And that changes depending on where your company is where your brand is, but I just really believe in chasing something that's really out of reach. And I would just say we need a big aspiration. And my aspiration here wasn't fixing the world, it was 10%. same store sales growth, because I believe that if you have this big aspiration, and your thinking is here, meaning you don't know how to get there, you fill that gap with creative ideas. And so for me, it's unlocking the potential of people to find new creative solutions to be disruptive, by driving with the big aspiration and filling that gap with creative ideas.

David Novak 9:02 

I want to talk more Mark about how you lead but I want to shift gears for a minute and take you back. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Mark King 9:13 

That's a great question. I would say this, David, I was, believe it or not. I was a pretty good athlete in high school. And I played basketball football, I was a golfer and went on to play golf in college. But I was on my senior basketball team. And we ended up the year two and 16. And about a month into the season to win 16 losses. About a month into the season. I got in this fight at practice with one of the other players. And it was not a big fight. But the coach came up to me afterwards and said, Hey, King, you got two choices. You can quit the team or you can become the leader of the team, because we're not a very good team. But we have to find a way for all of us to grow come together. or as a team and try to do something at our level in a really extraordinary way. This guy's name was coach Fleener and Fleenor. And at that point, we hadn't won a game, we won two games coming down the stretch. And it was probably the highlight of my athletic career wasn't about the wins and the losses. It was about taking on a not a very good team and doing something what I would call extraordinary with it. I didn't think about it, David in the moment like that, but as I reflect back that changed how I looked at everything.

Koula Callahan 10:38 

Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guest? Well, I do and I know a lot of you do, too. My name is Kula Callahan. And together with David, I host the three more questions podcast that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes. And in them, I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading yum brands. And all of His answers are super practical and inspiring. Like this great insight David shared and one of our most recent, three more questions episodes.

David Novak 11:20 

I love the idea of, you know, being a idea Hunter, you know, I think every leader should be an idea Hunter, you should be looking for good ideas wherever you can find them from your competition from your suppliers, from your customers from your people. And one way to be a great idea hunter is to have your antenna up. And then when you find something and learn something. And when you really find a really good idea, scream it from the rooftops that you've found this idea, and that you're so excited about it. And then guess what, you know, more ideas will pop. And you'll also be creating a culture where people will be looking for those ideas, because people do follow the leader.

Koula Callahan 12:06 

Get the three more questions podcasts in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love. Just subscribe to how leaders lead wherever you get your podcasts.

David Novak 12:24 

One of the things that I admire about you is that you went to tailor made early on in your career and you spent 34 years there and you you start out as a territory sales rep, and eventually become CEO of the company. Not many people ever can really start out in a company at that level and rise to the top. What did you do to differentiate yourself that helped you take on larger and larger roles,

Mark King 12:52 

I believe that if you're the absolute best at whatever job the company has given you, at some point, people are going to recognize, hey, there's a top performer, let's give him or her more. And when you get to the next level, if you do the absolute best job you can do, they will give you more, and they probably will promote you to the level of incompetence or the Peter Principle. And I was gifted enough, I guess, or I could see how to use other people's talents to help us achieve our goals. You got to be competent, you've got to be good at doing something. And what I was good at was driving for results, selling products, creating an environment where people wanted to be a part of it and chase something that was extraordinary. So for me, it's about delivering results.

David Novak 13:38 

And you did deliver results. And you kept taking on the bigger jobs. And in your tenure as president and CEO of tailor made. You took the business from $300 million to $1.85 billion in sales. That's an amazing result. What were the two or three things you did to drive the business to get results like that?

Mark King 13:58 

Yeah, it really goes back, David, my first off site running the company in the fall of 1999. And I said to the executive team, what are we going to do with our company? It's flailing, failing. Callaway and tireless, were doing great. We were not. And we decided that day, as a group, we were going to try to become the best performance golf brand in the world. And that was our big aspiration. And after one year, we figured out if we follow the industry norms, if we just do what the industry does, if we follow Callaway will never catch up. So we decided to change the entire model from three to five year product life cycles to one year lifecycle speed up the whole process. And we knew that that consumers wanted to buy our products more frequently. So we changed the model David, and within three years we had doubled the size of the business within six years. We were bigger than Callaway they were a billion we were 300 million within six years. We changed spots with them. But what I learned from that is if If you want to change the trajectory of your business, you have to be disruptive, you have to find new ways to deliver your products and services. And we did and then we applied it across all of our different product categories. And we became number one in metal Woods number one in irons, number one in apparel number one in footwear. So we dominated almost every category by looking at disruptive remedies for the existing status quo.

David Novak 15:27 

You know, speaking of disruption, with most golf brands, their driver, clubhead historically, has been black or gray in color. But then you launched a white driver, a tailor made, which made a huge splash in the market, walk me through the decision making process for that product launch.

Mark King 15:48 

I think in my career, it was the most defining moment, and I'll tell you why. In 2010, we were about $1.2 billion. We had 35% market share in the metal wood category. Callaway was pretty much in neutral at 800 million, we were by far the leader in the golf equipment industry by far. And in 2010, every driver was painted black by every competitor, every brand, because to be kind of part of the golf uniform, your driver had to be black, we had a guy that was running our putter business. His name is Bill Price game and showed us a putter that he painted white call it the ghost Potter said, Hey, we should think about painting our metal Woods white, nobody wanted to do it. David, it was highly controversial, all we could do was fail. And we just looked at each other and said, if we don't do this, somebody else might do it. It might not be white, but it might be something else. So we should be the ones that disrupt our own industry. So we painted our drivers white, we showed it to our customers, they loved it, we showed it to some Tour players, they loved it. In January of 2011, we launched the AR 11 Driver, which was white. And by March, David, our market share had gone to 52%. So the world is waiting for the next disruption. And you don't have to let it be some outside entity to your industry, you can disrupt within your own industry. And I learned that without way driver because we were rocking, we were not like broken. It's one thing to do what when your brand is broken our it was like Taco Bell, it was rocking what? By 2010. We disrupted it. And then we went from 1.2 billion to 1.8 billion in one year. One year.

David Novak 17:38 

It's amazing success story. And I bought one of those drivers. You know, I love him, you know, as a leader share a story besides this one, because this is a great story about the wide driver, but share a story of how you champion innovation that leaders can really learn from,

Mark King 17:55 

I'll go to the one category we haven't talked about i i left the TaylorMade business in 2014, our parent company was Adidas. And I went to the Adidas business in North America to run the Adidas business it had been flat for 20 years. And at that point, the only ambassadors for brands were athletes. So Nike had Jordan tailor made had Sergio Garcia, Nike had Tiger Woods, anybody in the sports business had an athlete that that endorse their product. Nike had all the top athletes. So we said well, why don't we do something completely outside of the norm? Why don't we have an artist and Kanye West had been with Nike, he left Nike he was looking for a brand to associate with. So we brought Kanye West in, we gave him complete autonomy to build whatever he wanted. In 2015, we launched what's now known as the Yeezy brand. And David that brand went from zero to a billion dollars in three or four years in sales. But more importantly, it changed the cool factor of the Adidas brand from the least cool brand in the US to the coolest brand. And there was no that was an easier risk to take because our business wasn't thriving. But I think the answer is always the same. Disruption is out there. But you have to be in search of it. And you have to have the courage to do it. The one trait that I think is more important today in leaders than ever before is courage. Because if you're not willing to take big risk, and you're only into incremental, you're gonna get hurt.

David Novak 19:42 

Mike White, the former CEO of DirecTV as the only other podcast guest I've had on this show that was also featured on Undercover Boss. What was the biggest learning you got from that experience?

Mark King 19:55 

It was really an amazing experience for me, Dave, I didn't really want to do it because cuz I thought the show was kind of corny than when I did it. I love the show, I learned a couple things, I learned a lot of things. But two things in particular, we have so many employees in our big companies that go unrecognized. They come in every day they do their job, you, they probably don't make a lot of money at the end of the year, they might get a small bonus. And so just knowing people's names and saying hi to them, and ever since that day, David, and if you walked around this building with me, I know almost every single person in this building, maybe not by first and last name, but I know him by look. And I pretty much know him all by first name, because I like to recognize them, because that's so important. Secondly, people don't understand why you're doing decisions, how you're doing decisions, for what purpose. So the flow of information for me down to the unrecognized employee has become really the guiding principle for how I create a culture where people want to be a part of it. They're recognized, and they know what's going on. Those are two big learnings for me,

David Novak 21:03 

as a leader, how do you know you're really getting the real skinny from your team? You know, so that you can be confident you know, what's actually going on in the business?

Mark King 21:12 

David, that is just a great question. And I learned this many years ago, the only people you can't really trust are your direct reports. And I say that kind of tongue in cheek and I don't mean it as seriously as it sounds. But I always have four or five people in the organizations that I have coffee with, that I talked to, not as moles, but as a, what's the feeling? How are people feeling? Do you have enough information? Are people confused? And I go to all levels of the organization. The other thing I do is I have a coffee chat every month with 30 or 40 people down in one of the conference rooms, bring people in and we just have an open discussion about how are we doing? How are you feeling? So I think being accessible, asking the questions and really listening, it's not that hard, David, and I enjoy it. So it's easy for me. But I would recommend any leader do that.

David Novak 22:06 

You talked to us 30 seconds ago about the importance of a leader disseminating the information up and down the organization. And I was really intrigued by the fact that you have your own podcast, how have you used podcasting to really communicate what you're really looking for?

Mark King 22:22 

I do it strictly for the people, David, I mean, a few if you're on I've had franchisees I've had some of the people in the in the kitchen, not just chef Rene or Liz, I've had all kinds of people from the kitchen. I had our nutritionist last week. So for me, it's a way for me to show that I connect to all people of the organization that we identify really extraordinary performance all throughout the organization, not just with the executives. And the podcast, David is primarily listened to by our system franchisees, team members employees. So I just want everyone in the system to know that we're together, that we identify all the things that are important to all of us within the Taco Bell System. So it's a great way for me to show that I care about everybody from the top to the bottom of the organization.

David Novak 23:16 

I want to take you back a little bit again. Now back to TaylorMade. You're on fire, you've turned this business around $1.8 billion in sales. And then you get asked to become the president of Adidas North America. Walk me through that career move mark and and why did you do it? I

Mark King 23:34 

was sitting at my desk and it was February of 2014. We had just finished our biggest year 1.8 5 billion, as you said, not only that we'd become very, very profitable. And I got a call from my boss. His name is Herbert Heiner. I've worked for him for 16 years. And he said, Hey, Mark, our business is broken in North America. If we could fix our Adidas business in North America, we would have a great global brand. We just need to fix it. We've been through seven or eight presidents in the last 10 years. And I'm thinking maybe you could fix it. Would you like to go? No chance did I want to go? He said, Well, you need to talk to a couple of people and see you know how they feel about so I talked to the Chief Marketing Officer call them back and I said, Herbert, it's broken more than you think. And he said, I know that's why it needs you to do it. And David, I swear to God, the reason I took that job was because I loved my boss, and I would have done anything for him. Because I really did not want to take this job. But I did it and I said okay, I will do it. And I said of course you're not going to pay me any more money, are you? And he said Of course not. So I didn't do it for money. And I went up there David and what I found immediately was the place was in desperate need of a leader. That's all David it needed somebody to say we can do something. We can do something In extraordinary, we can be great. And so I didn't know what was the right thing for me. I did it because I was I was a lifelong. You know, I work here at yum. David. And you know this people work at yum. And they do all kinds, they do different assignments, they go different places. And that's the way I was within the Adidas group. And I wanted to help fix North America. So that's why I took it. You

David Novak 25:21 

go to Adidas, and you mentioned earlier, you build this Yeezy brand. And with Kanye, yes. who used to work for Nike, okay? Or was the celebrity for Nike, and your Adidas, you're in the tank you're taking on Nike, and Nike is the Juggernaut, how in the world do you get people to believe you even have a shot against a competitor like Nike?

Mark King 25:46 

The first thing I did, David is I convinced my boss who almost forced me to take the job. I said, Look, here's the problem with Adidas. It is a global brand headquarters in southern Germany, in Herzegovina or Germany, and you're trying to compete with Nike and Under Armour in the US market, which happens to be 53% of the global sports market. And you do everything over in Germany, it's not going to work. And I'm sure everybody that you've given this job to a soldier the same thing. But we need to create a co headquarters here in Portland, Oregon, where all product all communication all branding is created with the American consumer in mind, we need to Americanize the brand. And he went along with it. So we moved all kinds of functions from Germany to Portland, we became much more American, we signed deals with all of the major leagues, athletes, we signed 500 athletes while I was at Adidas North America. And our communication became more than just football, football or soccer. It became about American sports, we signed up colleges, so we became part of the culture of sport in America, and it changed everything. Another

David Novak 27:02 

thing that you've really gained a lot of accolades for during your time at Adidas is the retention rate that you had for your employees, where you are getting some of the best NPS scores the companies have ever seen. What can leaders learn about how to create a kind of culture where people really want to stay? You know, we've

Mark King 27:23 

talked about a little bit, but I do think it starts with a big aspiration. And I'll tell you this story, my first day, at Adidas North America, we had an all employee meeting, it's maybe 1500 People in the gymnasium. And I stood up in front of them. And I said, Hey, I grew up loving sports. I love sports. And I understand and realize that our business here is struggling. And I'm here to tell you that we should have a big aspiration. And that aspiration is we should become Adidas North America should become the face of sport in North America, not a part of sport, the face of sport, bigger than Nike, bigger than ESPN, bigger than the Yankees bigger than the Cowboys. When you think a sport, you think of Adidas and of course, people laughed. But over time, when we said now we're going to sign 500 athletes. Over time, when we said we're going to move all of product creation and demand creation to Portland, when we're gonna do these, these things that they could see, they started to believe it. And the Kanye thing was kind of the the cherry on top of the of the sundae. And when the momentum starts to build, David, people want to be a part of it. And when you ask them to participate in thinking and challenging and finding new ways, people just love owning the result. And I think that that was the big thing that we changed. David, it

David Novak 28:48 

seems to me like you spent a lot of time trying to engage people by getting them involved in being a participant in creating something great. Yeah, you

Mark King 28:58 

know, my current boss, David Gibbs, who says, you know, King, you don't know anything about the business, I could ask you 50 questions, you would know the answer to him. But you spend your time on the things that really make the biggest difference. And it's really true, David, for me, I know the financials, I know the levers that drive profitability. But I also know what drives business growth is engagement, and not just engagement, but people feeling like they have ownership of where we're going, that they have input a platform influence. People know they're not going to make the decisions, but they want to know they have a voice and that somebody is listening, and I spend 75% of my time creating the right environment for people to thrive.

David Novak 29:48 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Mark King in just a moment. But you know, if you want to chase those big aspirations, you're going to need a heck of a lot of courage. And one of my favorite conversations about courage is the one I had with Maritza Montiel, the former Deputy CEO and vice chairman of Deloitte.

Maritza Montiel 30:06 

Everyone has courage, it's just that sometimes I think fear of failure paralyzes people. And so I always say to people believe in yourself, make sure you have a plan of what it is you want to accomplish. And, you know, dare to dream. One of the things I always when I had my one on one sessions with my leaders, I would always end the sessions with, tell me what your dream is. And it's sort of caught people off guard at the beginning. But the next time we met, they came prepared to talk about that dream, it didn't have to be they would ask me, well, about what and I would say, well, they're not my dreams are your dreams. That's what I want to know. And so it forces people to think about the art of the possible and it forces you to think about, you know, if you spend two weeks planning your vacation, but you don't spend more than a day thinking about your future, it's kind of not the right balance in life. And I had lots of dreams. And so it's amazing how if you dream, a lot of times they do come true. And it gives you the energy, and the confidence to want to do more.

David Novak 31:12 

If you want to get inspired to tap into your own courage, you've got to listen to my entire conversation with Marisa episode 105 here on how leaders lead.

You know, the other thing is, you're in a business like Taco Bell, you probably interview, you know, 500,000 people a year and you interview people, you're constantly looking for talent. I'm curious, you know, what are your go to questions? When you're interviewing somebody for a job at Taco Bell or any business?

Mark King 31:52 

I look for three things. I'll start with that, David, I look for passion. Does somebody exude passion for what they're going to do. And you know this as well, as I do, if you don't have passion for this brand, it's going to be snuffed out by the franchisees by the marketing people by the ops people. So I look for passion, I look for creativity, is somebody going to come in here and really think about how we could do things new and differently? And the third thing I look for is, are there somebody who's going to take initiative? So I don't know that I have go to questions. But I asked questions like, give me an example of would you rather be kind of incrementally growing? Or would you like to go up and down and have some years big growth in some years? And you find out, do people like to take risks, and they'd like to be incremental? Do they like it safe? Do they like comfort? Hey, do you like to break the rules? That's my my one question. I asked everybody. Because if you're not willing to break the rules, and I don't mean legal rules, or you know, SEC Rule, I just mean, are we going to be able to do things differently. And it's so easy to find those people, it's easy to see, to see if they're that way or not David, and I want people that have great passion, just the way they're animated. They talk. And are they creative? Do they think they can find new ways? And are they willing to take initiative and break rules? Then we got us a winner. You

David Novak 33:20 

know, Mark, one of the things I always ask myself after I interview somebody is when I want to work for that person. And you know what, I think you're inspiring me. I'm ready to go to work for you right now. You know,

Mark King 33:30 

Hey, David. Well, I just want to tell you something. And I know I've told you this before, but I'd love your listeners to hear it. Not a day goes by and I'm not embellishing that somebody in this building doesn't talk about how tough you were, but inspirational that you were and your legacy here at taco bell is it's it's without comparison. And it's because David, you are inspiring to people, you challenge them to be the best they could be, then you get away with being tough on people, right? But if you only have the tough and not the inspiring, it's challenging.

David Novak 34:08 

Thank you very much for that. That means a lot to me. Because I love the Taco Bell people and I love that brand. And you know, I've had the same kind of fire for it is I think you do. You also talk about the difference in your eyes between a manager and a leader. Talk about that.

Mark King 34:25 

I think managers are they're about control. They're about setting KPIs. They're about building a plan to get there. They're about measuring results, all very necessary things. They're about how you do something. I think leaders are about creating an environment and creating, thinking not following rules but creating the rules and there's a big difference. And yes, you need rule followers but you also need rule makers. So you need to inspire the Thinking and people, not just the obedience in people, managers look for people that are smart, diligent and loyal, they're obedient. They get stuff done. Leaders look for passion, creativity, initiative, new ways of thinking, breaking the rules. So, leaders to me are about inspiring. Managers are about controlling. And I have never been accused David of being a good manager just for the record.

David Novak 35:27 

I don't know people might think you're more controlling than you think you are. Maybe. Maybe, David, this has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?

Mark King 35:38 

Yes, sir.

David Novak 35:39 

Okay, what's one word others would use to best describe you? Energy? What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Driven? Finish the sentence for me as a leader when you invest in people, you get results? Who would play you in a movie? Oh, my God.

Mark King 36:01 

Robert dinero.

David Novak 36:02 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

Unknown Speaker 36:07 

Matthew McConaughey.

David Novak 36:10 

Your biggest pet peeve? Not being on time. favorite item on the Taco Bell menu.

Mark King 36:17 

bean burrito with green sauce.

David Novak 36:19 

I know you're a high energy guy. But how do you chill? Or do you?

Mark King 36:24 

David? I know people don't understand this. But I'm an introvert. And when I'm not in front of people, no, no. I have

David Novak 36:32 

guys that says they're an introvert that so I met all

Mark King 36:37 

the examinations David and I love being on the couch watching sports. So that is with a glass of red wine. That's how I chill.

David Novak 36:46 

What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss.

Mark King 36:49 

While I pray, I still pray. I'm Catholic. And I still say my I try to attempt a rosary every day. I walk with my dog every day and I talk with my kids every day.

David Novak 36:59 

If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

Mark King 37:03 

You'd hear PGA Tour radio, I listen to it all the time.

David Novak 37:10 

What's something about you? Few people would know, I go

Mark King 37:14 

to bed every night somewhere between 630 and seven o'clock.

David Novak 37:19 

That was great work, you understand? is the lightning round and you delivered? Very good. You know, I've just got a handful of questions. Few more questions here for you. And I'll wrap this up. If you had to boil it down to one moment. Tell me about the two minutes you think that had the biggest impact on your life and career? What two minutes changed everything. Honestly,

Mark King 37:41 

it was 1994. I was the VP of Sales for TaylorMade. I was getting my annual review from my boss at that time, his name was Chuck Yash. And he said What are your career aspirations? And I said, career aspirations. I work for TaylorMade. I'm a head of sales. I love golf, I have my dream job. And he said, I think you have a lot more to offer, I think you can go a lot further. And you should challenge yourself to do bigger things to be a general manager to be a president. Because I think you have real leadership skills. And you can do something really great. Had I not had that conversation, David, I'd still be selling golf clubs, I'd still be happy. But I wouldn't have had the career that I've had.

David Novak 38:22 

You know, in addition to all you're doing for Taco Bell, I know you're also a strategic advisor for Honda golf. For anyone wanting to build a successful consumer brand. What are two or three things they should keep top of mind? Well, I

Mark King 38:36 

think first of all, you have to you've got to have something that differentiates yourself from the competitors, what's unique and different about your proposition. Secondly, you've got to be able to innovate, because no matter how much consumers love your brand, they are looking for something new and different. And the third is, it's really hard. It's really hard.

David Novak 38:56 

You know, you've raised more than $10 million for children's charities around the world through your one kind Foundation. And I understand you've done that together with your daughters, which is absolutely amazing. As you look ahead, what do you see as your unfinished business?

Mark King 39:13 

I've started giving corporate speeches David a long time ago, but 15 years ago, I've given over 200 corporate speeches. And as I exit from Taco Bell, I'm really looking forward to speaking but speaking with the purpose of helping leaders understand how to be more effective leaders. That's what you're doing with your podcast. You're helping people like myself that listen to your podcast, how do we become more effective leaders? Well, I must be insecure in some way because I love standing in front of large audiences and sharing my story with them. So it gives me a lot of satisfaction. So for me speaking, it's not about the money part of it. It's about helping leaders understand how to be more efficient Do in this really challenging world environment.

David Novak 40:03 

That's a great noble cause. And I guess next year you are leaving Taco Bell and moving on to, you know, greener pastures, I'm sure. And you'll make a huge difference in people's lives. And you certainly made a huge difference at Taco Bell. And every company that you've, you've touched, I have to ask you, you know, I understand you had a little bit of a going away party or a celebration of your career with the Taco Bell, folks, what was your gift? Well,

Mark King 40:31 

my gift was a book, of which they're titled The Book of King. And a handful of people wrote a chapter about their time with me. And then they had a rocking chair, which a white rocking chair, which a lot of them sent me really beautiful notes on there. So I haven't had a chance to read all the notes. And David Gibbs was there, which was really meaningful to me that because he brought me in and saw me through these four years, and it was, it was, it was the most emotional moment of my life. It was just really beautiful.

David Novak 41:04 

Last question here. What's the best piece of advice you can give aspiring leaders,

Mark King 41:10 

I think people are capable of more than they think they are. And your job as a leader is to unlock that potential.

David Novak 41:17 

That is great advice. And you've impacted so many people. And I know you'll continue to impact him. And Mark, I gotta tell you that you know, this was a lot of fun. So much fun, David, we covered a lot of ground in a hurry. But I think every leader is going to learn a lot by listening this podcast. So thank you for giving me so much time. I appreciate it.

Mark King 41:39 

I love it. David, thank you very much for having me.

David Novak 41:52 

Well, no doubt about it. The world needs more leaders like Mark King. He's passionate, other directed, and he gets extraordinary results wherever he goes. And if you ask me, you only get extraordinary results. When you set extraordinary goals. Mark shows us the courage it takes to look past the status quo and give our teams a big aspiration to chase after. That's the key to disruptive growth. And more importantly, that's how you really get a team innovating and new ways and unexpected ways. As Mark puts it, people are capable of more than they think they are. And your job as a leader is to unlock their potential. Those big aspirational goals are exactly how you do it. So the question now is, how can you apply this big idea in your life? Well, Mark talks a lot about the danger of only setting incremental goals. If that's all you do, you'll never really find that disruptive idea or big breakthrough. So consider the goals you've got for your team, your business, or even yourself and ask, Are you playing it too safe? Are you only aiming for small wins? If so, how can you balance those incremental goals, which are important with some big aspirations? Think about what it would really look like to chase something extraordinary. That's what you got to do if you want to disrupt the status quo and unlock the creative potential of your team. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders chase something extraordinary. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Joe muglia, former CEO of TD Ameritrade and a college football coach, this guy has a resume unlike any other I've seen.

Joe Moglia 43:37 

Gotta have a philosophy that you believe in that you could stand by the holds up in every situation. And for me, it was his band, standing on two feet take responsibility for yourself treated with the respect with the consequent your actions. If every leader did that, assuming they have the skill sets, you got to have that to remember, you gotta have both some of these skill sets, they're going to be successful. I wrote this down first time before I got my first actual job was 22 years old. That's five decades ago, and is never ever not one single situation never gonna

David Novak 44:06 

hold up. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be