Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Mark King, the CEO of Taco Bell. Now of course, Taco Bell was already an iconic brand when Mark took over in 2019, but he has helped them achieve even more success and innovation. He is passionate. He is energetic. And I kid you not. He even had the Taco Bell logo shaved into the side of his head at one point. If that tells you anything about the kind of leader you're going to learn about . But that's the thing about Mark. He's not afraid to go big. In fact, he believes leaders have to set big aspirational goals. That's what he's doing at Taco Bell. And it's also how he has had incredible turnarounds of both tailor made and Adidas North America. You know, it's not enough to just aim for incremental growth. If you really wanted to disrupt the status quo, you've got to chase something extraordinary. This is one of those conversations that I got to tell you is going to leave you buzzing with practical ideas and big time inspiration. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Mark King. When you first joined Taco Bell, I remember hearing this in the grapevine because I'd already left as the CEO of young brands. But you went to the annual Taco Bell convention as I understand it. And you had the logo, the Taco Bell logo shaved into the side of your head. You know, what on earth made you do that? Well, David, that's funny you would start with that. But the first week that I started in August of 2019, if you remember and those people listening, we had the launching of the Taco Bell Hotel. It was a four day party out in Palm Springs. We took over this little boutique hotel and invited a lot of our cult followers . Anyway, I got caught up in the moment and they had this barber that was putting tattoos into your hairdo. So I just said, I'm all in on Taco Bell. So carve it in the side of my head. So I had that showing for months, David. It was awesome. What do you think that says about your leadership style? I wanted people here at Taco Bell to know that I was all in, that I shared the same love and passion for the brand that they did. And what I learned, David, in brands is if you don't really love the brand, it 's hard to lead the brand. And so I thought that would really represent, hey, I'm all in, guys. I love it. And you've been in the CEO position before, but when you stepped into Taco Bell , what's something that caught you by surprise? Something that you didn't expect? I came from the golf industry and then the footwear industry and those products are very aspirational. So the consumers in those categories, they love their products. And when I got here, I didn't know people could actually love a taco or a bur rito or a crunch wrap or a quesadilla. And people, our consumers, our employees, they are just as passionate about the products we make here as they were at Adidas or tailor made. And it's not that I didn't think people liked the product, but they deeply are emotionally attached to these products. And that just jumped off the page to me. What was the biggest challenge you saw, Mark, in the business almost straight away? Well, I think it was complacency, David. And you know this, you were here for many, many years. The Taco Bell brand had been on a 15 year run when I got here, same-store sales growth every year, net new unique growth every year. And it's hard. And you know this probably better than I do when you're 15 years of success. Where do you go from there? How do you keep pushing yourself and challenging yourself? So I really thought the biggest challenge was complacency and not to continue just to keep doing what we've been doing, but to find new things to do. You know, you've said, and I love this quote of yours, if incrementalism is what drives your business, you're not going to last very long. Talk more about that. Well, I think we live in a world, David, where when you and I started and you 're a little older than me, but not that much. Every year it was if you could grow 2, 3%, you were happy and you managed expenses, you grew the top line, you were profitable. But today's world is changing so rapidly that if you're only growing increment ally 2, 3, 4%, somebody's going to come in and do it better, faster, and cheaper. And when that happens, there's disruption. And so I'm a big believer that you have to be on two paths, run the railroad. That's the incremental. But then we have to be chasing something that disrupts the industry, disrupts the status quo. So I just think we should be chasing extraordinary. You know, you've done a fantastic job of getting out of that complacency and moving beyond that 2 to 3%. What do you do, Mark, to drive performance of the business on your team? And could you give me a, for instance, of this in action? Here's what I believe, David, that leadership, when you started or when I started, was all really about how great the leader was and their knowledge, wisdom, and experience. And so I just believe that unlocking potential of people is really where greatness comes from. So when I came here, we had a reputation. Taco Bell has a reputation of being innovative, but I didn't really see this constant pursuit of innovation. So we launched this program called the internal incubator. And we invited 60 to 80 people every quarter. We gave the 60 to 80 people a business challenge. And we brought in a creative facilitator to help find new creative ideas. How do we come back to work? How do we find iconic value? So we engage the people in finding solutions to the future and all walks of life from an L4 all the way up to a VP. So I think by sharing the ownership of the future, you get people to think, challenge, and find new ways to do things. What's one thing that came out of that incubator that really surprised you? Actually, a lot of things. So we've had probably 10 incubators since I've been here. And every one of them ends up with about 70 ideas, some small, some big. The biggest, and I think at YUM, we are the leader in getting people to come back to work into the office. So we have a hybrid. But one of the big challenges in this incubator was how do we create the Taco Bell culture in this new world, this hybrid world? So we handed it off to 60 people and they figured out what were the hours? How many days? What do we do culturally? What do we do for fun? What do we do for seriousness? How do groups work together? And we didn't solve that as an executive team. We solved it with the people that do the work. We have a total of about 700 people here at the RSC. And we average about 600 people, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. And I think that's important to be together, to find new solutions. So that was one of the big breakthroughs from the incubator. I love it. And I remember when we were together once you were talking about Taco Bell and the power of the brand. And you actually consider Taco Bell, you said, to be a category of one. Explain what you mean by that. Well, I think we live in this space of QSR, which is about food. It's about ease and it's about value. And I think Taco Bell is really the only, and I use this word and I don't really like it, but I'm going to use it. It's almost a lifestyle brand. It's a way to think about life. It's about energy and it's about live moss. And I think we're the only ones that really live in that space. And so that's how I think about it. Mark, I got to ask you, if you were going to break down your leadership philosophy into its simplest form, what would it be? I believe that we have to try to do something extraordinary. And that changes depending on where your company is, where your brand is. But I just really believe in chasing something that's really out of reach. And I would just say, we need a big aspiration. And my aspiration here wasn't fixing the world. It was 10% same source sales growth. Because I believe that if you have this big aspiration and your thinking is here, meaning you don't know how to get there. You fill that gap with creative ideas. And so for me, it's unlocking the potential of people to find new creative solutions to be disruptive by driving with a big aspiration and filling that gap with creative ideas. I want to talk more, Mark, about how you lead. But I want to shift gears for a minute and take you back. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today? That's a great question. I would say this, David. But I was, believe it or not, I was a pretty good athlete in high school. And I played basketball, football. I was a golfer and went on to play golf in college. But I was on my senior basketball team. And we ended up the year two and 16. And about a month into the season, two wins, 16 losses. About a month into the season, I got in this fight at practice with one of the other players. And it was not a big fight. But the coach came up to me afterwards and said, "Hey, King, you got two choices. You can quit the team or you can become the leader of the team because we're not a very good team. But we have to find a way for all of us to grow, come together as a team, and try to do something at our level in a really extraordinary way." This guy's name was Coach Fleaner, Ed Fleaner. And at that point, we hadn't won a game. We won two games coming down the stretch. And it was probably the highlight of my athletic career. Wasn't about the wins and the losses. It was about taking on not a very good team and doing something, what I would call extraordinary with it. I didn't think about it, David, in the moment like that. But as I reflect back, that changed how I looked at everything. Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guest each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guest? Well, I do, and I know a lot of you do too. My name is Koolah Callahan, and together with David, I host the Three More Questions Podcasts at Ayers every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes, and in them, I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career-leading young brands, and all of his answers are super practical and inspiring. Like this great insight, David shared in one of our most recent Three More Questions episodes. I love the idea of being an idea hunter. I think every leader should be an idea hunter. You should be looking for good ideas wherever you can find them, from your competition, from your suppliers, from your customers, from your people. One way to be a great idea hunter is to have your antenna up. Then when you find something and learn something, and when you really find a really good idea, scream it from the rooftops that you found this idea, and that you're so excited about it. Then guess what? More ideas will pop. You'll also be creating a culture where people will be looking for those ideas. Because people do follow the leader. Get the Three More Questions podcast in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love. Just subscribe to How Leaders Lead wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things that I admire about you is that you went to TaylorMade early on in your career and you spent 34 years there. You start out as a territory sales rep and eventually become CEO of the company . Not many people ever can really start out in the company at that level and rise to the top. What did you do to differentiate yourself that helped you take on larger and larger roles? I believe that if you're the absolute best at whatever job the company's given you, at some point people are going to recognize, hey, there's a top performer. Just give him or her more. When you get to the next level, if you do the absolute best job you can do, they will give you more and they probably will promote you to the level of incompetence or the Peter principle. I was gifted enough, I guess, or I could see how to use other people's talents to help us achieve our goals. You got to be competent. You got to be good at doing something. What I was good at was driving for results, selling products, creating an environment where people wanted to be a part of it and chase something that was extraordinary. For me, it's about delivering results. You did deliver results and you kept taking on the bigger jobs. In your tenure as president and CEO of TaylorMade, you took the business from $ 300 million to $1.85 billion in sales. That's an amazing result. What were the two or three things you did to drive the business to get results like that? It really goes back, David. My first off-site running the company is the fall of 1999. I said to the executive team, "What are we going to do with our company?" It's flailing, failing, Callaway and Titleists were doing great. We were not. We decided that day as a group, we were going to try to become the best performance golf brand in the world. That was our big aspiration. After one year, we figured out if we followed the industry norms, if we just do what the industry does, if we follow Callaway, we'll never catch up. We decided to change the entire model from three to five-year product life cycles to one-year life cycles, speed up the whole process. We knew that that consumers wanted to buy our products more frequently. We changed the model, David. Within three years, we had doubled the size of the business. Within six years, we were bigger than Callaway. They were a billion. We were 300 million. Within six years, we changed spots with them. What I learned from that is if you want to change the trajectory of your business, you have to be disruptive. You have to find new ways to deliver your products and services. We did. Then we applied it across all of our different product categories. We became number one in metalwoods, number one in irons, number one in apparel, number one in footwear, so we dominated almost every category by looking at disruptive remedies for the existing status quo. Speaking of disruption, with most golf brands, their driver clubhead historically has been black or gray in color. Then you launched a white driver at TaylorMade, which made a huge splash in the market. Walk me through the decision-making process for that product launch. I think in my career, it was the most defining moment. I'll tell you why. In 2010, we were about $1.2 billion. We had 35% market share in the metalwood category. Callaway was pretty much in neutral at 800 million. We were by far the leader in the golf equipment industry, by far. In 2010, every driver was painted black by every competitor, every brand, because to be part of the golf, uniform, your driver had to be black. We had a guy that was running our putter business. His name is Bill Price. Game and showed us a putter that he painted white, called it the ghost putter, said, "Hey, we should think about painting our metalwoods white. Nobody wanted to do it, David. It was highly controversial. All we could do was fail." We just looked at each other and said, "If we don't do this, somebody else might do it. It might not be white, but it might be something else. We should be the ones that disrupt our own industry." We painted our driver's white. We showed it to our customers. They loved it. We showed it to some tour players. They loved it. In January of 2011, we launched the R11 driver, which was white. By March, David, our market share had gone to 52%. The world is waiting for the next disruption, and you don't have to let it be some outside entity to your industry. You can disrupt within your own industry. I learned that with that white driver, because we were rocking. We were not broken. It's one thing to do when your brand is broken. It was like Taco Bell. It was rocking by 2010. We disrupted it. Then we went from 1.2 billion to 1.8 billion, and one year, one year. It's amazing success story. I bought one of those drivers. You love me. I love that. I love that. As a leader, share a story besides this one, because this is a great story about the white driver, but share a story of how you champion innovation that leaders can really learn from. I'll go to the one category we haven't talked about. I left the tailor-made business in 2014. Our parent company was Adidas. I went to the Adidas business in North America to run the Adidas business. It had been flat for 20 years. At that point, the only ambassadors for brands were athletes. Nike had Jordan, Taylor made, had Sergio Garcia, Nike had Tiger Woods. Anybody in this sports business had an athlete that endorsed their product. Nike had all the top athletes. We said, "Why don't we do something completely outside of the norm? Why don't we have an artist?" Kanye West had been with Nike. He left Nike. He was looking for a brand to associate with. We brought Kanye West in. We gave him complete autonomy to build whatever he wanted. In 2015, we launched what's now known as the Yeezy brand. That brand went from zero to a billion dollars in three or four years in sales, but more importantly, it changed the cool factor of the Adidas brand from the Lease Cool brand in the US to the coolest brand. That was an easier risk to take because our business wasn't thriving, but I think the answer is always the same. Disruption is out there, but you have to be in search of it, and you have to have the courage to do it. The one trait that I think is more important today in leaders than ever before is courage, because if you're not willing to take big risk and you're only into incremental , you're going to get hurt. Mike White, the former CEO of Direct TV is the only other podcast guest I've had on this show that was also featured on Undercover Boss. What was the biggest learning you got from that experience? It was really an amazing experience for me, David. I didn't really want to do it because I thought the show was kind of corny. Then when I did it, I loved the show. I learned a couple things. I learned a lot of things, but two things in particular. We have so many employees in our big companies that go unrecognized. They come in every day. They do their job. They probably don't make a lot of money. At the end of the year, they might get a small bonus. First, knowing people's names and saying hi to them. Ever since that day, David, and if you walked around this building with me, I know almost every single person in this building. Maybe not by first and last name, but I know them by look and I pretty much know them all by first name, because I like to recognize them because that's so important. Secondly, people don't understand why you're doing decisions, how you're doing decisions, or what purpose, so the flow of information from me down to the unrecognized employee has become really the guiding principle for how I create a culture where people want to be a part of it. They're recognized and they know what's going on. Those are two big learnings from me. As a leader, how do you know you're really getting the real skinny from your team so that you can be confident you know what's actually going on in the business? David, that is just a great question. I learned this many years ago. The only people you can't really trust are your direct reports. I say that kind of tongue in cheek and I don't mean it as seriously as it sounds, but I always have four or five people in the organizations that I have coffee with that I talk to, not as moles, but as, hey, what's the feeling? How are people feeling? Do you have enough information? Are people confused? I go to all levels of the organization. The other thing I do is I have a coffee chat every month with 30 or 40 people down in one of the conference rooms, bring people in and we just have an open discussion about how are we doing? How are you feeling? I think being accessible, asking the questions and really listening, it's not that hard, David, and I enjoy it. It's easy for me, but I would recommend any leader do that. You talked just 30 seconds ago about the importance of a leader disseminating the information up and down the organization. I was really intrigued by the fact that you have your own podcast. How have you used podcasting to really communicate what you're really looking for? I do it strictly for the people, David. If you're on, I've had franchisees, I've had some of the people in the kitchen, not just Chef Renee or Liz, I've had all kinds of people from the kitchen. I had our nutritionists last week. For me, it's a way for me to show that I connect to all people of the organization, that we identify really extraordinary performance all throughout the organization, not just with the executives. The podcast, David, is primarily listened to by our system, franchisees, team members, employees. I just want everyone in the system to know that we're together, that we identify all the things that are important to all of us within the Taco Bell system. It's a great way for me to show that I care about everybody, from the top to the bottom of the organization. I want to take you back a little bit again. Now back to TaylorMade. You're on fire. You've turned this business around $1.8 billion in sales, and then you get asked to become the president of Adidas North America. Walk me through that career move, Mark, and why'd you do it? I was sitting at my desk, and it was February of 2014. We had just finished our biggest year, $1.85 billion, as you said. Not only that, we'd become very, very profitable. I got a call from my boss. His name is Herbert Heiner. I've worked for him for 16 years. He said, "Hey, Mark, our business is broken in North America. If we could fix our Adidas business in North America, we would have a great global brand. We just need to fix it. We've been through seven or eight presidents in the last 10 years, and I'm thinking maybe you could fix it. Would you like to go?" No chance, dude, I want to go. He said, "Well, you need to talk to a couple of people and see how they feel about it." I talked to the chief marketing officer, call him back, and I said, "Robert, it 's broken more than you think." He said, "I know. That's why I need you to do it." David, I swear to God, the reason I took that job was because I loved my boss, and I would have done anything for him because I really did not want to take this job. I did it, and I said, "Okay, I will do it." I said, "Of course, you're not going to pay me any more money, are you?" He said, "Of course not." I didn't do it for money. I went up there, David, and what I found immediately was the place was in desperate need of a leader. That's all, David. It needed somebody to say, "We can do something. We can do something extraordinary. It can be great." I didn't know it was the right thing for me. I did it because I was a lifelong ... I work here at Yum, David, and you know this. People work at Yum, and they do all kinds. They do different assignments. They go different places. That's the way I was within the Adidas group, and I wanted to help fix North America. That's why I took it. You go to Adidas, and you mentioned earlier, you build this Yeezy brand with Kanye, you asked, who used to work for Nike, or it was a celebrity for Nike. You're Adidas, you're in the tank, you're taking on Nike. Nike is the juggernaut. How in the world do you get people to believe you even have a shot against a competitor like Nike? The first thing I did, David, is I convinced my boss who almost forced me to take the job, I said, "Look, here's the problem with Adidas. It is a global brand, headquarters in southern Germany, in Herzogonark, Germany ." You're trying to compete with Nike and Under Armour in the US market, which happens to be 53 percent of the global sports market. You do everything over in Germany. It's not going to work. I'm sure everybody that you've given this job to has told you the same thing, but we need to create a co-head quarters here in Portland, Oregon, where all product, all communication, all branding is created with the American consumer in mind. We need to Americanize the brand, and he went along with it. We moved all kinds of functions from Germany to Portland. We became much more American. We signed deals with all of the major leagues. We signed 500 athletes while I was at Adidas North America. Our communication became more than just football, football, or soccer. It became about American sports. We signed up colleges, so we became part of the culture of sport in America, and it changed everything. Another thing that you've really gained a lot of accolades for during your time at Adidas is the retention rate that you had for your employees, where you were getting some of the best NPS scores the companies have ever seen. What can leaders learn about how to create a kind of culture where people really want to stay? We've talked about it a little bit, but I do think it starts with a big aspiration, and I'll tell you this story. My first date at Adidas North America, we had an all-employee meeting. It's maybe 1,500 people in the gymnasium. I stood up in front of them and I said, "Hey, I grew up loving sports, love sports," and I understand and realize that our business here is struggling. I'm here to tell you that we should have a big aspiration, and that aspiration is we should become, Adidas North America should become, the face of sport in North America. Not a part of sport, the face of sport, bigger than Nike, bigger than ESPN, bigger than the Yankees, bigger than the Cowboys. You think of sport, you think of Adidas. Of course, people laughed, but over time when we said, "Now we're going to sign 500 athletes." Over time when we said, "We're going to move all of product creation and demand creation to Portland." When we're going to do these things that they could see, they started to believe it. The Kanye thing was the cherry on top of the Sunday. When the momentum starts to build, David, people want to be a part of it. When you ask them to participate in thinking and challenging and finding new ways, people just love owning the result. I think that was the big thing that we changed, David. It seems to me like you spend a lot of time trying to engage people by getting them involved in being a participant and creating something great. My current boss, David Gibbs, says, "King, you don't know anything about the business. I could ask you 50 questions. You wouldn't know the answer to them, but you spend your time on the things that really make the biggest difference." It's really true, David, for me. I know the financials. I know the levers that drive profitability, but I also know what drives business growth is engagement and not just engagement, but people feeling like they have ownership of where we're going, that they have input, a platform, influence. People know they're not going to make the decisions, but they want to know they have a voice and that somebody is listening. I spend 75% of my time creating the right environment for people to thrive. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Mark King in just a moment. You know, if you want to chase those big aspirations, you're going to need a heck of a lot of courage. One of my favorite conversations about courage is the one I had with Maritza Montiel, the former Deputy CEO and Vice Chairman of Deloitte. Everyone has courage. It's just that sometimes I think fear of failure paralyzes people. I always say to people believing yourself, make sure you have a plan of what it is you want to accomplish. To dream one of the things I always when I had my one-on-one sessions with my leaders, I would always end the sessions with tell me what your dream is. And it sort of caught people off guard at the beginning, but the next time we met, they came prepared to talk about that dream. It didn't have to be. They would ask me about what? And I would say, well, they're not my dreamster. Your dreams, that's what I want to know. And so it forces people to think about the art of the possible and it forces you to think about, you know, if you spend two weeks planning your vacation, but you don't spend more than a day thinking about your future, it's kind of not the right balance in life. And I had lots of dreams. And so it's amazing how if you dream, a lot of times they do come true and it gives you the energy and the confidence to want to do more. If you want to get inspired to tap into your own courage, you've got to listen to my entire conversation with Maritza. You've got 105 here on How Leaders Lead. You know, the other thing is, you're in a business like Taco Bell. You probably interview, you know, 500,000 people a year and you interview people. You're constantly looking for talent. I'm curious, you know, what are your go-to questions when you're interviewing somebody for a job at Taco Bell or any business? I look for three things. I'll start with that, David. I look for passion. Does somebody exude passion for what they're going to do? And you know this as well as I do. If you don't have passion for this brand, it's going to be snuffed out by the franchisees, by the marketing people, by the ops people. So I look for passion. I look for creativity. Is somebody going to come in here and really think about how we could do things new and differently? And the third thing I look for is, are there somebody who's going to take initiative? So I don't know that I have go-to questions, but I ask questions like, give me an example of would you rather be kind of incrementally growing or would you like to go up and down and have some years big growth and some years look and you find out, do people like to take risk? Do they like to be incremental? Do they like it safe? Do they like comfort? I say, hey, do you like to break the rules? That's my one question I ask everybody because if you're not willing to break the rules and I don't mean legal rules or you know, SEC rule, I just mean, are we going to be able to do things differently? And it's so easy to find those people. It's easy to see if they're that way or not, David. And I want people to have great passion, just the way they're animated. They talk. And are they creative? Do they think they can find new ways? And are they willing to take initiative and break rules? Then we got us a winner. You know, Mark, one of the things I always ask myself after I interview somebody is, would I want to work for that person? And you know what? I think you're, you're inspiring me. I'm ready to go to work for you right now. You know, hey, David, well, I just want to tell you something. And I know I've told you this before, but I love your listeners to hear it. Not a day goes by and I'm not embellishing that somebody in this building doesn 't talk about how tough you were, but inspirational that you were. And your legacy here at Taco Bell is it's without comparison. And it's because, David, you were inspiring to people. You challenged them to be the best they could be. Then you get away with being tough on people, right? But if you only have the tough and not the inspiring, it's challenging. Thank you very much for that. That means a lot to me. Because I love the Taco Bell people and I love that brand and, you know, I've had the same kind of fire for it as I think you do. You also talk about the difference in your eyes between a manager and a leader. Talk about that. I think managers are, they're about control. They're about setting KPIs. They're about building a plan to get there. They're about measuring results, all very necessary things. They're about how you do something. I think leaders are about creating an environment and creating thinking, not following rules, but creating the rules. And there's a big difference. And yes, you need rule followers, but you also need rule makers. So you need to inspire the thinking in people, not just the obedience in people . Managers look for people that are smart, diligent, loyal. They're obedient. They get stuff done. They're just look for passion, creativity, initiative, new ways of thinking, breaking the rules. So leaders to me are about inspiring. Managers are about controlling. And I have never been accused, David, of being a good manager, just for the record. I don't know. People might think you're more controlling than you think you are. Maybe. Maybe, David. This has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Yes, sir. Okay. What's one word others would use to best describe you? Energy. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Driven. Finish this sentence for me as a leader when you invest in people. You get results. Who would play you in a movie? Oh my God. Robert De Niro. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Matthew McConaughey. Your biggest pet peeve. Not being on time. Favorite item on the Taco Bell menu? Being burrito with green sauce. I know you're a high energy guy, but how do you chill or do you? Hey, David, I know people don't understand this, but I'm an introvert. And when I'm not in front of people, no, no, no, come on. I am. You're not one of these guys that says they're an introvert that's a little extra. They've had all the examinations, David. And I love being on the couch watching sports. So that's with a glass of red wine. That's how I chill. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss? Well, I pray. I still pray I'm Catholic and I still say my, I try to attempt a rosary every day. I walk with my dog every day and I talk with my kids every day. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear PGA tour radio. I listen to it all the time. What's something about you? A few people would know. I go to bed every night somewhere between 6.30 and 7 o'clock. That was great, Mark. You understand it's a lightning round and you delivered very good. You know, I just got a handful of questions, a few more questions here for you and I'll wrap this up. If you had to boil it down to one moment, tell me about it. What about the two minutes you think that had the biggest impact on your life and career? What two minutes changed everything? Honestly, it was 1994. I was the VP of sales for TaylorMade. I was getting my annual review from my boss at that time. His name is Chuck Yash and he said, "What are your career aspirations?" I said, "Career aspirations. I work for TaylorMade. I'm ahead of sales. I love golf. I have my dream job." He said, "I think you have a lot more to offer. I think you can go a lot further and you should challenge yourself to do bigger things, to be a general manager, to be a president because I think you have real leadership skills and you can do something really great." Had I not had that conversation, David, I'd still be selling golf clubs. I'd still be happy, but I wouldn't have had the career that I've had. In addition to all you're doing for Taco Bell, I know you're also a strategic advisor for Hanma Golf. For anyone wanting to build a successful consumer brand, what are two or three things they should keep top of mind? Well, I think first of all, you've got to have something that differentiates yourself from the competitors. What's unique and different about your proposition? Secondly, you've got to be able to innovate because no matter how much consumers love your brand, they are looking for something new and different. And the third is, it's really hard. It's really hard. You know, you've raised more than $10 million for children's charities around the world through your one kind foundation. And I understand you've done that together with your daughters, which is absolutely amazing. As you look ahead, what do you see as your unfinished business? I've started giving corporate speeches, David, a long time ago, about 15 years ago. I've given over 200 corporate speeches. And as I exit from Taco Bell, I'm really looking forward to speaking, but speaking with the purpose of helping leaders understand how to be more effective leaders. That's what you're doing with your podcast. You're helping people like myself that listen to your podcast. How do we become more effective leaders? Well, I must be insecure in some way because I love standing in front of large audiences and sharing my story with them. So it gives me a lot of satisfaction. So for me, speaking is not about the money part of it. It's about helping leaders understand how to be more effective in this really challenging world environment. That's a great noble cause. And I guess next year you are leaving Taco Bell and moving on to greener past ures, I'm sure, and you'll make a huge difference in people's lives. And you certainly made a huge difference at Taco Bell. On every company that you've touched, I have to ask you, I understand you had a little bit of a going away party or a celebration of your career with the Taco Bell folks. What was your gift? Well, my gift was a book of which they're titled, The Book of King. And a handful of people wrote a chapter about their time with me. And then they had a rocking chair, which a white rocking chair, which a lot of them sent me really beautiful notes on there. So I haven't had a chance to read all the notes. And David Gibbs was there, which was really meaningful to me because he brought me in and saw me through these four years. And it was the most emotional moment of my life. It was just really beautiful. Last question here. What's the best piece of advice you can give aspiring leaders? I think people are capable of more than they think they are. And your job as a leader is to unlock that potential. That is great advice. And you've impacted so many people. And I know you'll continue to impact them. And Mark, I got to tell you that, you know, this was a lot of fun. So much fun, David. We covered a lot of ground in a hurry. But I think every leader is going to learn a lot by listening to this podcast. So thank you for giving me so much time. I appreciate it. I love it, David. Thank you very much for having me. Well, no doubt about it. The world needs more leaders like Mark King. He's passionate, other directed, and he gets extraordinary results wherever he goes. And if you ask me, you only get extraordinary results when you set extraordinary goals. Mark shows us the courage it takes to look past the status quo and give our teams a big aspiration to chase after. That's the key to disruptive growth. And more importantly, that's how you really get a team innovating in new ways and unexpected ways. As Mark puts it, people are capable of more than they think they are. And your job as a leader is to unlock their potential. Those big aspirational goals are exactly how you do it. So the question now is, how can you apply this big idea in your life? Well, Mark talks a lot about the danger of only setting incremental goals. If that's all you do, you'll never really find that disruptive idea or big breakthrough. So consider the goals you've got for your team, your business, or even yourself , and ask, are you playing it too safe? Are you only aiming for small wins? If so, how can you balance those incremental goals which are important with some big aspirations? Think about what it would really look like to chase something extraordinary. That's what you've got to do if you want to disrupt the status quo and unlock the creative potential of your team. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders chase something extraordinary. Next up next on How leaders lead is Joe Moglia, former CEO of TD Ameritrade and a college football coach. This guy has a resume unlike any other I've seen. You've got to have a philosophy that you believe in that you can stand by that holds up in every situation. And for me, it was his band standing on two feet, take responsibility of yourself, treat as with the consequence of your actions. If every leader did that, assuming they have the skill sets, you've got to have that too. You've got to have both. Assuming they have skill sets, they're going to be successful. I wrote this down the first time before I got my first head to actual general. I was 22 years old. That's five decades ago. And it's never ever not. We're not one single situation. It's never not held up. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]