David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Brett bear. He's the chief political anchor of Fox News Channel and executive editor of special report with Brett bear, which airs live every week night to millions of viewers. Now, there's a lot we could say about the world of politics and media. But one thing's for sure. There's never a dull moment. In Brad's world, things are always happening and always changing. And as the anchor of a live news program, he has to be ready for anything. So how does he do it? Well, as you're about to hear, Brett keeps his eyes and ears open all the time. He is always asking questions, always listening, always tuned in to what's going on around him. That kind of attendee mindset can help you too. And I think you're going to learn a lot today by hearing how Brett works, and leads. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Bret bear.

You know, when I was doing my research, I had a lot of fun watching a lot of your clips, but one that really stuck out for me was the interview you did with the Dalai Lama and I couldn't believe it when you asked him if he'd ever seen Caddyshack. I mean, that was amazing. Tell us that story.

Bret Baier 1:42 

The Dalai Lama was in Washington, DC. And they called and said, Would we like an interview? And he said, of course, definitely. So we went over there. I met him who's a fascinating character. And we talked about everything from China to all of the spiritual, you know, consciousness and what he recommends. And it was at the end of the interview about 20 minutes, and I thought to myself, this is the only time I could do this. I might as well do it. And so I said, Have you ever seen the movie Caddyshack? And he said, What is a Caddyshack? The movies like no. I said, Are you a golfer? He said, No, I play badminton. And I said, so you're not a big hitter, the llama. And, you know, my friends died laughing and in fact, at the time, the PGA I have a bunch of buddies on the PGA Tour Graeme McDowell and others. They were on a rain delay. And so that went viral. And they all we're passing it around of the Dalai Lama talking about Caddyshack.

David Novak 2:48 

I don't know what possessed you to ask that question, but I'm glad you did. Now, in June of 2023, Fox News aired a highly acclaimed conversation you had with Donald Trump, I'd like you to walk me through your process of how you get prepared for a conversation like that.

Bret Baier 3:05 

Donald Trump's probably that one of the toughest interviews to prepare for him. And it's kind of like nailing jello to a wall. He says a lot of different things. And it's tough to get in. To follow up. What I do to prepare is I have a great research team. And we look at all the answers that he's had in the past about similar subjects, and try to murder board out where we think he's going to go as far as the answer. And when that happens, it leads to a follow up. You know, one of the things I learned about interviewing over time, and a good friend of mine was the late Tim Russert, who told me Listen, Brett, it's not about the questions. It's about listening to the answers.

David Novak 3:49 

What's the story from that interview that you haven't told before?

Bret Baier 3:53 

You know, I said on camera at the end of the interview, Mr. President, do you feel like you were treated fairly? And he said, Yes, Brad. I think it was tough, but fair. And afterwards, the cameras stopped. And he said, You know what, Brett? That was really good for me. I think I did really well. It's really strong. And I said, Well, Mr. Prez, we'll let the viewers decide. I'd love to do it again sometime. And he's then started talking about golf, and playing golf. And so everything was fine. About a week later, his legal team and others may have said there were things said in that interview that could be problematic. And that's when he did an interview with Newsmax and called it nasty and that I was in a bad frame of mind. So that, you know, he was very happy with it right afterwards. Not so much later.

David Novak 4:45 

I think one of the reasons why the interview was so highly acclaimed as you really, you know, asked him some very tough questions, and it was a very fair interview and you really asked him why, you know, he had, you know, had so many people who work for him that didn't support him now and why fired all these different people and stuff, you're not afraid to push at the heart issues? How do you learn to do that in a way to keep everything moving forward in your job?

Bret Baier 5:09 

Yeah. So I'm not trying to do these gotcha questions, I'm trying to present questions in a way where the politicians get off their talking points. In other words, I don't want to get them to erode an off ramp that gets them to their stump speech. I want to have answers that elicit different questions that people go Wow, I've never heard that before. Or, Wow, how's it going to answer that? And it put, I can do it in a tough but fair way, but also in a respectful way. That's not attacking. But it's more presenting? I think it comes off. Okay. I mean, I had an interview with President Obama in the White House, three days before Obamacare passed. And I knew he was going to try to filibuster and take a lot of time. And he did exactly that. I mean, the first answer was about five minutes long. And the second answer was three minutes. And behind the camera was a guy with the Obama administration with a cell phone that was ticking back from 20 minutes, like going backwards. So I had to have the, the sense to say, Listen, I've either got to interrupt politely, or I'm just gonna get rolled in this interview. And basically, one of the biggest questions I wanted to get to was, Mr. President, will you be able to keep your doctor under this plan? And that obviously lasted for many, many years afterwards?

David Novak 6:38 

You know, Fred, when you do an interview like that with Trump, or Obama, did you go back and watch the interview and then assess your own performance and say, Okay, here's how I can up my game 100%.

Bret Baier 6:47 

And I'm always trying to look to see how I could do something better how I could present better. Like I said, I have a couple of people I always looked up to Tim Russert was one of them. Britt Hume, my mentor and friend growing up, Peter Jennings, and I would study really all of them to see little things that I could pick up. That would make me better.

David Novak 7:10 

Well, we've been talking about presidents and you've written a series of great books, your three day series that focuses on the pivotal moments, where a president's decision really affected the history of the world. I'd like to ask you what would be one key leadership insight you've learned from your study of, let's say, Franklin D Roosevelt.

Bret Baier 7:31 

Each one of the presidents that I studied and kind of wrote about had some major crucible in their life that they had to get over. And that made them better people. For Dwight Eisenhower, it was about growing up in abject poverty really in Kansas. For Ronald Reagan, he had an alcoholic father, tough start, obviously, FDR, with his polio and you stricken couldn't walk. But he got over that Ulysses S. Grant, had some really, really hard times and essentially was selling firewood on the side of the road. I think that determination and grit to get over your past is one thing that I see across the board. Each one of these men that I've written about, by the way, had really strong mothers, and they were really maternal, tough women, that that made them who they are. And I also think that the ability to communicate what they are thinking about the issues of the day, that was a, the ability to concisely say what they meant, was a unique trait that each one of them had in in a different way. Reagan was obviously a much better communicator than all the others, but they did all possess that quality. Fast

David Novak 8:53 

forwarding to our more recent presidents, what would you say would be the single biggest leadership trait? Each one of these presidents would have a starting with Obama?

Bret Baier 9:03 

Yeah, Obama had the ability to, to communicate in a way that that touched people across party lines. I think there were a lot of Republicans who at the beginning, were just proud of the country that we had gotten to this point. And he had electrified the electoral population. And I think that that enabled him to get elected. I don't think it enabled him to govern that. Well, he was not a great consensus builder or a guy that worked across the aisle very well. I think George W. Bush, had the ability to not worry about polls, and in the midst of the Iraq War, decided to really hold the line even though his poll numbers were going really south and I think that standing on principle, he Looking back, despite the fact that the Iraq war will always be looked at questionably he he will get some points in history, his eyes for doing what he believed Donald Trump was so unique in his ability to talk to the everyman, that, you know, I'll tell a quick story, David I, covering the 2016 election, I took 37 Ubers, in swing states, and I'd get in to the Uber and I'd say, Hey, listen, at the end of the ride, you mind telling me who you're gonna vote for? And 36 out of 37 said, Donald Trump. And I said, what you know, and I'm talking every nationality, every race, every all different. And I said, why? And they said, because, you know, both parties suck. And we want somebody that can kick the table over and do something different. And I saw that in union workers who were really attracted to what Trump was saying. And here's this skin, a billionaire guy who flies around in a plane with, you know, gold plated bathrooms, identifying with really blue collar collar workers. And that was his magic. And he still may have some of that magic, despite all of these legal troubles, we'll see.

David Novak 11:22 

How about Joe Biden,

Bret Baier 11:24 

Joe Biden has just a history or history of service, you know, 55 years in office. And so over that time, he became this affable characters. Oh, it's Joe. And as vice president, he was kind of the guy that Obama looked to to deal with Congress, I think that he was the moderate choice in that election, because Bernie Sanders was not acceptable to the Democratic Party. So he became the default choice and the party rallied around him. He is not a great orator, as we've seen, and his over the years has declined in that ability. But he was his history was a consensus builder. Now, I think you could say he, he's covered a lot more left than people thought he would, at the beginning. And we'll see where it goes from here.

David Novak 12:20 

You may have already answered this question by the fact that you had those 39 Ubers. And you asked everybody, who was who they were gonna vote for, they all said, drop, almost everyone said Trump. And now you've got this podcast, where you really try to tap into the top issues that are on the minds of the voters. Did this idea Genesis from that those Uber conversations? And what are the top things that are on the minds of voters today?

Bret Baier 12:47 

Yeah, that's great question. I think you're a pro of podcast, I am just a new recruit. But I have to, I've got the all star panel podcast where we talk about the issues of the day. And then I have this other podcast called common ground, where I bring left and right together to talk about, you know, big issues that they can agree on. And really that started from writing about Eisenhower, who was our most bipartisan president, who, in his farewell speech said, we should first agree to what we agreed to left and right, and then disagree about what we disagree about. And so that was the genesis of the common ground podcast. I think the issues that most drive Americans are the ones that we talk about every election, the pocketbook issues, the issues around the kitchen table, making the bills, inflation is a huge driver of motivation for folks how they feel about what they're paying for if their dollar goes for or doesn't go for. That's the main driver. I think that other issues that are driving people can be characterized as wedge issues, but abortion, other big things that can be motivated to one side or the other. I think that the economy, though, overall, is the issue that most people care about. How do you

David Novak 14:14 

think integrity comes into play? Now, you know, when I was coming up growing up as a kid, you know, that it was just something that everybody always talked about? And, you know, here we've got, you know, both Biden and Trump with potential integrity issues, Biden with the Hunter Biden story and Trump with all these indictments. How important is integrity today?

Bret Baier 14:37 

I think it's important. If this election turns out as looks like going into this with Biden and Trump again, I think it'd be fascinating because you're right, they both have big vulnerabilities. I do think it matters. I think that people want a choice. They want to look up to the White House, but both sides have dug in so far. That you know the other guy is the worst, the other guy is the devil that you don't want. And so that's what elections have become. It's not, we're gonna vote for the integrity and greatness of this guy. We just don't want that other guy, look at this guy. And that's really a change. And I think that, you know, should somebody get in the race or somehow rise to that occasion? There is a hunger for that. I hear it across the country. It's just hasn't materialized in candidates that were choosing.

David Novak 15:29 

How do you think that's really come about? Brett? I mean, you've been in politics and studied politics for years, how did we get into this state where we have these two people, the best our country has to offer, I

Bret Baier 15:41 

know isn't something I mean, 300 million people in America, and its potential that we're going to have another election like we did last time. I think that politics is so ugly sometimes and with social media, and was such invasiveness into people's lives as a result of it. There's not a lot of hunger to get involved. You know, it's much easier for a CEO or business person who's successful to say, Why do I want to subject my family to that? So we as a country have to admire the people who do and recruit, you know, a different breed of candidate. I think that there are candidates who potentially could rise to that occasion, but in this environment, so far, it hasn't happened.

Koula Callahan 16:33 

Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guest? Well, I do. And I know a lot of you do, too. My name is Kula Callahan. And together with David, I host the three more questions, podcasts that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes. And in them, I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading yum brands, and all of His answers are super practical and inspiring, like this great insight, David shared and one of our most recent, three more questions, episodes,

David Novak 17:15 

what I think you have to have, whether you're an entrepreneur, you work on the company side, you have to bring daily intensity to your work. You gotta go to work every day with you know, just daily intensity, that you are out there to get things done, and you're gonna make it happen. And you know, that unless you execute something, it's not gonna happen. You know, the one thing about entrepreneurs is you don't stay an entrepreneur for very long. If you don't execute, if you don't get something done, you cannot wait for somebody else to do it for you, because you got to do it. And I think if you're in a company, and you take that same kind of mindset, to work every day, that same kind of daily intensity, I think you can be very, very successful.

Koula Callahan 18:02 

Get the three more questions, podcasts and your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know, and love. Just subscribe to how leaders lead wherever you get your podcasts.

David Novak 18:20 

You know, I understand that the bait nights, bring out the most butterflies for you. You know, we all have these moments as leaders, how do you work through the butterflies and that anxiety it creates? So

Bret Baier 18:34 

I've been doing it for a long time. I think I've done eight or nine GOP primary debates. And I'm getting ready for another one here. And I guess I welcome the butterflies because my day to day, you know, I talk to two to 3 million people a night. But the butterflies haven't been there for a long time when the red light goes on. But in a big moment when you have 10s of millions watching, you know, 10 million 20 million and our biggest debate Cleveland, and you have to organize eight people on the stage. You know, there's a lot happening all at once. So when the butterflies come, I kind of am grateful to them. Because I think this is you know, you're in the game. I've talked to some sports people, Tom Brady and Steph Curry. And they said, Yeah, the big moments, you just absorb them, you soak them up. And I feel the same way. You know, I feel like that's a moment where I'm blessed to be there. So take a deep breath and make it up.

David Novak 19:39 

Well, this has to be a real butterfly moment with you how leaders lead podcasts with

Bret Baier 19:47 

trying to hold them back.

David Novak 19:49 

You know, there are times when the candidate attacks the moderator in a what advice can you give to other leaders about staying grounded in those kinds of tense situations but because it happens to all of us whether it's a, an investor and analyst or franchisee or somebody in your own company,

Bret Baier 20:07 

I would say, get above that moment, don't fall for going down and swinging down like that. I think calmness and the ability to, to get through an attack like that, in a calm way is a good thing to do. Also distraction and going someplace else. For me, it would be to go to another question to go to something else. I think, you know, in that moment, as a moderator, I'm trying to be someone who steers the questions to try to get answers from candidates so that voters have a better choice. I'm not trying to be the story, right. So I'm trying to be less of a figure I think it might be different if you're trying to confront somebody who's coming at you, and accompany etc, I'm trying to diffuse at those moments. And, and get to substance, I think in in how you talk into in totally deal with things, how you talk about it does affect how somebody

David Novak 21:10 

reacts to it. Now, here you are this highly accomplished award winning broadcast journalist. What are your thoughts about the state of journalism today?

Bret Baier 21:20 

I think it's fairly depressing. I think there are fewer and fewer news outlets that are focused on news and more and more of partisan sides. You know, Fox clearly has an opinion side that is right leaning, and they do a great job, much like a news page and opinion page, we have that separation. But I think there are fewer fewer news shows that are left, because people see clicks and views based on the partisan approach. So if I had a magic wand, I would make more special reports, you know, I would make more efforts to try to go down the middle. And I think also the thing that's a little depressing is local news. Both newspapers and television, seem to be taking it on the chin.

David Novak 22:16 

You try to call balls and strikes fairly on both sides. And I think that's why, you know, you are so popular, doesn't bother you that the perceptually the opinion arm of Fox, so outweighs the Fox News Division.

Bret Baier 22:34 

I mean, I've been there 26 years. So that has been the case since day one. You know, when Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes founded the network, they started it, saying that facing media, who were saying that this is never going to work, it's a niche business, they're never going to succeed. And it turned out that the niche was half of the country, anxious for an alternative to kind of what people were seeing through the eyes of maybe liberal journalists who are sometimes were expressing themselves through their news stories. So I think that if I can keep it down the middle, if I can do things like the interview with Trump, that occasionally, the mainstream media says, Wait, this is this is really good or break stories that others then chase us on, which we do all the time, have a great stable of reporters and correspondents who are doing stuff that other networks and other newspapers and chasing, then that's how we deal with it step by step. But I agree, it gets a lot more attention on the opinion side. And it's always been that way. How

David Novak 23:46 

are you taking the lead to build the capability and credibility of your news organization.

Bret Baier 23:52 

I encourage correspondents and reporters to enterprise stories to break stories, I provide as much leeway and support as I can. And I'm trying to do big newsmaking interviews that get attention, make news, and put the Fox News brand, the news side of the house out in the atmosphere. So the more that I can do that, the better it is. Confirmation

David Novak 24:20 

bias is a challenge for any leader these days. How do you keep your own in check?

Bret Baier 24:25 

Yeah, so we always kind of do a self look, and to make sure that we're doing things, not from one side, but to make sure that you know, each side has a say we have a really rigorous script approval process on my show, so that we make sure that it's not just one sided on some issues. When I took over from Brit Hume. He said three things. The show's not about you. The show is not about you. elections matter. He also said Do whatever you do make sure that the other side whether whatever side that is, gets a fair shake. And that's what I'm trying to do. Shifting

David Novak 25:09 

gears now Brad, I'd like to take you back a little bit. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you are today?

Bret Baier 25:17 

When I was 13, I decided that I wanted a moped when I was 15. So my parents were not going to get me that and I decided to create a lawn company. So I mowed lawns, and I mowed a ton of lawns. So I had 10 lawns in a weekend. And my parents were saying you don't do anything but mow lawns. And I said, but I want that moped. So by the time I was 15, I bought the moped by myself and as a result of the lawn business, and I think, dedication, looking at something that you want, putting horse blinders on, and trying to get that, you know, I

David Novak 26:05 

also understand in my research that that you were a bartender at Applebee's, you know, what did that teach you about leadership? Well,

Bret Baier 26:13 

you know, at the time I was, I was local TV in Beaufort, South Carolina, a place called WJ WJ. TV, and it paid about 15 grand a year. So I not only did I bartend, at Applebee's, but I delivered food. So I would do our report during the day I would, I was the reporter, the photographer, the cameraman, the editor, I would put it all together. And then I would put the tape on a plane to Beaufort, from Hilton Head, South Carolina, at 3pm in the afternoon, so I had to deliver the tape, it would fly to then Beaufort, South Carolina, then I would start delivering food. And then I would bartend in the evening. So when I would deliver food, I would show up the door and they'd say, Wait, aren't you the reporter on channel six? And I'd say yes, you order the cows zone. And then I would finish that and I'd go bartend I think bartending for anybody who has not bartending is a great profession to be able to talk to people to be able to listen to them. And I think it made me a better interviewer in the long, long haul. Plus, I can make some drinks.

David Novak 27:24 

Like we talked about, you've written these great books on presidents and their pivotal moments. You know, looking back on your your career, what do you think was the pivotal moment for you your your big break? Well,

Bret Baier 27:36 

first of all, I did small market TV ran around the country. And I was at CBS in Raleigh, WRAL and the startup Fox News Channel, reached out to my agent at the time and said, we'd like to have him be the Atlanta Bureau guy. And I thought, Oh, they want to get me in for an interview. And he said, No, based on your tape, they want to hire you. So the Atlanta Bureau for Fox started in my apartment with the fax machine and the cell phone, wow, 26 years ago. So that was the big break. But then the biggest break in Fox was at 911. I was covering Atlanta on the southeast and South America. The first plane hit in New York. They said for me to back up, up in New York, I went to get a plane, second plane hit. They said Get in the car and drive. We started driving from Atlanta, the third plane hit, they rerouted me to the Pentagon. And I started doing lob shots outside the burning Pentagon that night for Fox affiliates around the country. And I never left. I became the Pentagon guy. Soon thereafter traveled with then Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, they moved me from Atlanta to DC, and I never went back. So that was the biggest break inside Fox.

David Novak 28:53 

Wow, you had I think 11 trips to Afghanistan 13. To to Iraq. What did you learn as a war correspondent, you know, in covering that news, which was obviously many times horrific.

Bret Baier 29:08 

Yeah. One I learned the service and sacrifice of not only the men and women who serve, but their families back home. David, I have so many stories about amazing men and women who were out there in the midst of that I remember getting in C 17. Flying from somewhere to UAE, Doha, maybe Qatar, and I was flying into Afghanistan. And I got on the C 17. And we took off and this pilot tattoos, his jacket three times and then we were coming in and landing and he tapped his jacket again. And I said Is this some kind of and I was up in the cockpit for the entire thing. Is this some kind of signal to your copilot or something and and the guy said no, what I take off and land and he pulled out a picture of his two year old daughter. They said, I just want to touch her when I take off and land. So many stories, you know, like that, about that service that kind of changed the perception of the military. And when I covered the Pentagon, it had a different look through those eyes.

David Novak 30:20 

Man, that is a very powerful story. You know, you're in an industry where things just turn on the dime. I mean, it is news, you know, how do you prepare for the unexpected? Yeah, so

Bret Baier 30:33 

day to day, just by doing all these stories and seeing everything that's happening. And doing it again, and again, and again, repetition that helps in preparation. It's kind of like osmosis, you're doing it every day. But what I think the best shows that I've ever done, are the ones where we rip up the rundown, five minutes before the show, and do the whole thing live, because some event is happening, something's going on. And so with training of having done that now for 15 years in the anchor chair, I've kind of talked to people around me to be really agile. And they know that my preference is to do the breaking thing to the thing that's making the news, right then. And that's where, you know, viewers get the most out of the newest stuff coming in. So over time, that's what what happens.

David Novak 31:28 

What's the best show you've ever done? I did a show

Bret Baier 31:31 

over in Iraq, in Baghdad, and there were mortars coming in into the green zone. But we continued the show. And I think just from a visual standpoint, that was a really amazing show, we had to mid show evacuate into the embassy. But we kept going we kept rolling, we kept the live feed going. And so that was a really exciting show. The best interview I've done, you know, I've done a lot of presidents and those are big moments. But I was in Havana, Cuba. And I was covering Eliot Gonzalez, you know, the kid from Florida came over. And they were trying to get him back. But I was in Havana, and we'd finished up for the day. And on the back porch of the hotel Nasional there's this big porch that overlooks the mela cone, the water there. And there was a guy sitting, smoking a cigar and drinking a margarita. And I went up and it was Jimmy Buffett. And I said, Mr. Buffett, you know, what are you doing here is there for a music festival? I said, I'm a huge fan. I've got my crew here. I asked you a few questions. And he said, Yeah, you can. If you smoke a cigar and drink a margarita? And I said, Absolutely. And so that was one of the best interviews impromptu than I've ever done.

David Novak 33:01 

That's great. You know, being on television, as long as you have and you mentioned this earlier, you know, the red light goes on again, and you don't have the butterflies every day you do it day in and day out, you know? How do you push yourself to innovate and do things that you've never done before it can get stayed

Bret Baier 33:20 

if it's in this blueprint. And so what I'm trying to do every day, I'm talking to my producer. In fact, when I get off of this, I will have a conference call. And we'll talk about what we could do differently today based on the news that's happening. And really the best thing about my job is that it's different every day. It depends on what the news provides. It's not about top down, this is what we're going to cover. It's about bottom up. This is what's happening. And obviously there are stories that we've had planned for a long time that we're going to try to get in. But if something else is bubbling up, that becomes the story of the day. So I think innovation comes in believing that the news can drive the brand, and not the brand drive in the news.

David Novak 34:12 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Bret Baer in just a moment. You know, it's clear that Brett is a great listener. That's a habit I see time and time again in strong leaders. And that's certainly the case for Rob Light. He's the managing partner of Creative Artists Agency. His ability to listen to his clients has been the force behind some of the biggest moments in his career.

Rob Light 34:34 

You have to learn to listen. It's not saying listen and learning to listen. And finding the tools to get people to talk is a real skill. And I think great leaders have that ability to really hear what their staff and their associates are saying can hear ideas can get people to communicate, and then take that information and use it in a way to help their companies grow. To

David Novak 35:01 

go back and listen to my entire conversation with Rob, Episode 57 here on how leaders lead.

You know, obviously, you're a leader, you tried different things and done many different things based on the news and what's happening. There has to be a broadcast, I'm sure where things don't go as planned it. Can you share one of those stories and how you handle it?

Bret Baier 35:29 

Sure. Yeah. I mean, it happens frequently, you know, sometimes you get Gremlins in the equipment. And I'm sure I'm trying to log on here, I had an issue. So I mean, that happens. And so you roll with the punches, we've had machines crap out mid show that the story just ends. And it just comes back to the reporter who's shocked, you know, and then you have to do a q&a right away, instead of the piece that was going to run. So you kind of roll with the punches. There are other times where interviews don't go like you planned. And you kind of have to, I think the best thing to do is to bring the audience in and say, that didn't go like we thought, or this is really not going well, technically, we're going to take a break and try to get back, you know, so that the audience doesn't think you're trying to pull something over on him. You just bring them in and say, Hey, this is screwed up. We're gonna figure it out. And get back. Once

David Novak 36:29 

again, honesty's the best policy 100%. You know, every leader needs truth tellers around them, who are yours, and how do you lean on them? To give you honest feedback?

Bret Baier 36:40 

Number one, is my wife, my wife, Amy grounds me every day, she says, yeah, that didn't really work. Or, No, that's not gonna, that doesn't fly, or that tie is a non starter. You know, something should always grounded and my kids ground me too. So family, I think it's important. And, you know, they're, they're used to being on TV for for this many years. Also, you have to have close folks around you who are not afraid. And you have to empower them, to be able to be not not afraid to say, boss, this is not what we should do. And here's why you're writing this presidential series, Eisenhower was the best at being able to have people that disagreed, and they would disagree in front of him. And then he would make a decision. And when Kennedy came in to take over, he said to Kennedy, listen, you want this discussion? This is the National Security Council, you want this debate? And Kennedy said, No, I have my brother. It's fine. It's just me and my brother. Well, what happened was, you know, the Cuban Bay of Pigs happens. And the the entire first part of the Kennedy administration is consumed by this. And after that happens, first person who calls is Dwight Eisenhower. And there's this picture of them walking up the path at Camp David. And Kennedy turns to Eisenhower and says, Boy, you know, this is a lot tougher than I thought it was. And eyes inheritors to Kennedy and says, with all due respect, Mr. President, that's what I told you six months ago. And so that ability to have people argue in front of you and not be afraid to confront you, you have to be able to empower them to do that. So that they can.

David Novak 38:39 

If you look at Fox today, Brett, what's your number one Leadership Challenge?

Bret Baier 38:45 

Number one leadership challenge is to get good people going forward. We have a great stable of people. But we need to recruit the young people who want to be from a news perspective. In the news, I think perception is a big challenge. You talked about it earlier, that, you know, Fox gets painted with a broad brush, that it's just this, you know, right wing Republican network. And so I think that that's a challenge, but not as big as recruiting the next talent and figuring out how to do that. So we've created systems where we have interns that become junior reporters that become into the system. So we're trying to create our own farm League of talent to come

David Novak 39:37 

read. This has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this?

Bret Baier 39:44 

Okay,

David Novak 39:45 

what's one word others would use to describe you

Bret Baier 39:48 

dedicated?

David Novak 39:49 

What would you say is the one word that best describes you committed? Who would play you in a movie?

Bret Baier 39:56 

I would like Pierce Brosnan with a cup extra pounds.

David Novak 40:02 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

Bret Baier 40:06 

Oh, I would like to hit it like Rory McIlroy.

David Novak 40:12 

You and me both your biggest pet peeve

Bret Baier 40:14 

is probably procrastination.

David Novak 40:18 

You grew up in Atlanta. So you're from the south. What's your favorite southern phrase? All y'all. What the hell's that mean?

Bret Baier 40:26 

How all y'all doing? All y'all? Whenever you whenever you put all y'all that you know that you're deep South.

David Novak 40:35 

What's something most people don't know about politics, that

Bret Baier 40:38 

honesty actually matters. And it's more about honesty with individuals that they have to believe that what you're saying is from you, not from some manufactured pundit,

David Novak 40:55 

your best day ever.

Bret Baier 40:57 

I mean, the birth of my children, wedding. Best day ever, probably. The day that my son Paul got out of heart surgery for the first time, and I brought him home.

David Novak 41:15 

Awesome. If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Probably

Bret Baier 41:20 

Morgan Wallen. I'm into country right now. But I have an eclectic mix.

David Novak 41:26 

And what's something that few people would know about you?

Bret Baier 41:30 

You know, golf is obviously something that people would know about me, but it is a passion. And if I have extra minutes in the day, I'm chipping in putting, trying to get better.

David Novak 41:42 

That's why you're a scratch golfer or close to it. I've seen that I've seen that first trying to keep up with you. So just a few more questions for you. You know, your family motto is gratitude. How'd that come to be?

Bret Baier 41:57 

Well, as I mentioned before, my oldest son Paul was born with five congenital heart defects. And we didn't know at the beginning was a perfect pregnancy, he came out with a little pail that did some tests, and it turned out his heart was pumping the wrong way. So he had to have eight hour surgery that reworked this heart the size of a walnut. And the surgeon kind of made these changes to his heart moving arteries, the size of angel hair pasta around so that his heart could work. So part of the fix was a donated aorta, to make his heart work. So it didn't grow with him. So he had to have every time he grew and other surgeries. So we had four open heart surgeries. 10 angioplasties. And so that's where gratitude came from each time we got home. He is now 63. He is on the golf team, the varsity golf team. He plays basketball. And I look up to him. You know, I'm 511. So it's we've come a long way from that early hospital room. That's

David Novak 43:05 

great. And I understand that your family and he leads the way you raise money for that hospital that, you know, has helped him so much. What have you learned about leadership just from Paul, it's just

Bret Baier 43:18 

a powerful thing to be able to take what you've been through, which is a traumatic thing, and own it. And he does, he talks about it now. And we have charity events where he gets up and speaks to a roomful of 800 people about his experience, and to be able to use that and to help somebody else. My wife is now the Chair of the Foundation Board at Children's National, and has raised $500 million in a campaign for that hospital. So the first night where we had Paul in the hospital, my father in law turned to me and said, You know what? You found your cause. This is why people go to these events. This is why they buy the trip. They don't want to buy the signed football from somebody they don't know. This is why you do it. And we did. We had found our cause and and we never looked back. So I think finding what you want to support. Everybody should have something that they do. And this is our something, you

David Novak 44:20 

know, you're in this 24/7 job, you have all this stuff going on in your personal life. Well, you've obviously grown in your career and continue to do great things. How have you navigated all that goes on at home and work.

Bret Baier 44:33 

My late friend at the Pentagon, Jack mcwethy, he was ABC News, Pentagon correspondent, we went to the same college PA and I was working traveling with him with Secretary Rumsfeld. And he said, listen, Brett, this is fun. We're gonna go you know, do a lot of things. And this we're going to travel the world but understand that when you go home and you're coat hanger job at the door. And I said, it's a little tough to do jack. And he said, Trust me, if you can do it more and more, you're going to realize that those moments are the ones, not just the traveling with your kids or going someplace, the moments where you hanging up your job at home, are the moments that you're gonna cherish. He died on a ski accident, some six years after that. And I remember those words to this day. I tried to do it. It's tough. You know, we're a little too connected. David. We've got, you know, too many devices that get us but I'd really do try to hang up the coat and the job at the door.

David Novak 45:42 

Good advice. And two more questions, and I'll let you go. You've accomplished so much already. What What's your unfinished business? Brett? One,

Bret Baier 45:51 

I'd like to moderate a general election debate. I have not done that as of yet. I'd like to do that, too. I'd like to do some long form pieces that are one issue specific so that you spend an hour really digging in. I've done a few of them. But I really liked that format. And three, I'd like to be back to a true scratch golfer.

David Novak 46:19 

Last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader?

Bret Baier 46:24 

I'll go back to what I really tell classes who asked me about journalism, how to do what they do. And I think it follows with leadership as well. And that is, you don't know how you're going to get there, you have in your mind that you want to be someplace. But let's say it's a car and you drive it on a road, you don't have any headlights, and it's pitch black outside, there's no street lamps, but you can barely make out the side of the road. You don't know how you get there, but you're still going forward. And then eventually, you get use of one headlight, you could see more, and then two headlights, and then you get high beams. And you can see a little bit more. And before you know what the sun's coming up over the hill. And suddenly you see a little bit more of the hill and then then you're there. But you didn't really see how you were going to get there. So I guess it's keep driving, even though you don't know the specifics of your how you're going to get to the thing that you're gonna get to, to keep driving.

David Novak 47:24 

Well, Brett, you know, we talked about the butterflies you get before the debate. I have to tell you doing this interview with you. I had a few butterflies because I know you are the consummate interviewer. It was a lot a lot of fun having you on and I appreciate everything you do for Fox and for our country. And just you being the great person you are I just for all our listeners out there. I mentioned to Brett once that my dad was a huge fan. So he gets in the studio has this coat and tie on and does a lot of recording a video for my dad and I sent it to my dad and he shows it to everybody and he's 94 years old. And that was one of his highlights. That's all I'll say thank you very much, Brett for just being who you are. David. It's

Bret Baier 48:07 

great. It's great to be with you. I love this podcast

David Novak 48:20 

you know, I love talking to Brett because I mean come on who else in the world is going to quote Caddyshack to the Dalai Lama. But all joking aside, I love seeing how Brett approaches his work. I mean, right after we finished our interview, he was about to hop on a call with his team to see what they might need to adjust for that night show. He always has his antenna up asking questions and really listening to what people have to say. He wants to make sure he has a pulse on whatever's happening. That kind of a tinnitus makes Brett an outstanding journalist and an outstanding leader. But here's the thing, even if you're not breaking news live in front of millions of people every night. The same is true for you as a leader. Your world is constantly changing. You got to be aware of it. What's on people's minds, what's shifting? What's the overall climate for your team, your culture, your industry. When you keep your eyes and ears open, like Brett does, you'll know and that awareness can help you be more agile and more responsive through whatever ups and downs you face. So let's talk about a way that you can apply this concept. This week. Grab a small notepad or maybe use your phone and just go through your day like a journalist would jot down the small details you notice. Ask questions whenever you can, like Brett did during his Uber rides, then get your team together and ask what you might need to do differently based on what you're seeing. That attendee mindset is key if you want to stay agile and responsive and Ready for whatever's happening in your world. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that great leaders keep their antennas up. Coming up next on how leaders lead is our quarterly best of episode, where we pull together the top insights from the last three months of podcast episodes is the best way to wrap up your year and set yourself up for a fantastic 2024. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be