Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. But you may not realize, this podcast is actually just one part of a larger mission. See, I believe that the world desperately needs great leaders, so I founded David Novak leadership, and we're on a mission to develop leaders at every stage of life, from preschool to the C-suite and everywhere in between. And my guest today is the guy who runs that organization, Tim Shur, the CEO of David Novak leadership, and in this conversation, I want to take you behind the scenes of what we're up to here, including a new resource I really want you to check out. But I also want you to hear how Tim leads. He's the author of a book called The Secret Society of Success, and he believes that the key to satisfaction and success in life is helping other people win. You know, a lot of times, leaders feel like we've got to chase that spotlight and be the star of the team. But Tim is going to show you that great things can happen in your company and in your career when you shift your focus and help others win, and that's how you become the real star. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Tim Shur. Tim, it's great to have you on the show. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be hanging with you today. Well, I know you know, I know the answer here, but I'm going to go ahead and ask this for everyone that's listening. Give us a snapshot of David Novak leadership and the business that you lead today. So David Novak leadership is the nonprofit that you started after you retired from young brands, and the mission is to make the world a better place by developing better leaders at every stage of life. And there are four brands under this umbrella. One of those is How Leaders Lead, which is where we're focused on helping business professionals, and we do that with this podcast, and then we also have a brand new mobile app called How Leaders Lead, which I would imagine we'll talk about here in just a little bit. And then at the University of Missouri, we have the Novak Leadership Institute. And what's really exciting about what's going on there is that starting this fall, every single freshman student at Missouri is going to be going through some of our leadership curriculum, and they're even launching a leadership minor, which I just believe that these students have leadership skills before they launch into their careers. It's just going to help them be even more successful. And then the third brand is our middle and high school leadership program called Lead for Change. And Lead for Change is the largest privately funded leadership development program for middle and high school students in the country. So over two million kids have been through Lead for Change, and they learn leadership skills by doing community service projects. So they form teams, come up with ideas for how they can go out and make a difference in their community, and then they make it happen. And it's incredible the different projects that these students come up with. And then finally, for elementary school students, we have a program called Global Game Changers. And with elementary school students, we teach them leadership with what we call the super power equation, which is, "My talent plus my heart equals my superpower." So from a very early age, we're helping kids understand that if they use their gifts, put their heart into it, they actually can make a difference, even as kids, which is amazing. So four brands helping develop leaders at every stage of life and our teams passionate about the work that we get to do each and every week. You know, jumping ahead towards just the whole aspiring leader perspective, professional perspective, what's the biggest challenge that leaders are facing today? Well, David, something that I've learned from you is if you want to grow a business, you can solve the biggest problem that occurs most frequently for your customers. And I remember hearing you tell me stories about at Taco Bell how 70% of the business was happening through the drive-through. But what you found in surveying customers is they were saying that the products were too messy. And so what you and the team did is you created more portable products, and well, guess what happens to revenue? It increases. And so what we did as a team is we wanted to find out what that big challenge was for leaders today. And so we did a problem detection study. We had a lot of conversations with people in addition to surveys. And what we discovered, the biggest problem that occurs most frequently for leaders today is time. It's time. We thought perhaps that maybe it was money. You know, maybe people didn't have the budget or resources to invest in their own development, but that's not it at all. They want to become better leaders, but the reality is for a lot of them, they just don't have the time. How did you figure out what we should do to really tackle this problem? So the first step for us putting together the strategy was to find out what the problems were that people were up against. And after we discovered that it was time, that's really where we started to ide ate around, okay, what can we create? What product can we create that would have the greatest impact on people? And so we created almost like a set of rules. We knew that the podcast was the anchor for the business. We love the podcast. You love the podcast. We have so many incredible guests. I know that people are learning from these leaders each and every week, but then we started looking at some other categories, some other industries, and two in particular really stood out to us. So the Bible app has hundreds of millions of people who have downloaded their app, but what they do is every single day they have a verse of the day, they have a little bit of content each and every day that's refreshed to just get your mind right, get your day started in the right direction. And so that was really interesting. And the other thing we were looking at was Spotify. And what I believe has made Spotify so successful is how they leverage play lists. So what we ended up creating, what we came up with was what if we created an app and found a way to almost marry together, the Bible app was Spotify. And so if you go to the app store right now, you can download the How Leaders Lead app. And what we've done is we've taken the 170 podcast interviews that we've done on the show and broken them up into one to two minute soundbites. And the first thing that you're going to see when you open up the app is a little video. So that's our daily leadership insight where in under two minutes, you get to learn from some of the best leaders in the world. And here's the thing, we want people to create a leadership habit where they start their day learning from incredible leaders, but then applying those lessons to their day to day. So we're off to a great start. And I'm really looking forward to seeing the impact that this app is going to have on the lives of so many leaders. Launching something like this is no small undertaking. I'm curious, what's been the biggest leadership challenge bringing this app to life? Something I learned from one of the podcast guests we've had on this show is Uri Levine, and he's the co-founder of Waze. So we've learned quite a bit from him because here's a guy who knows what it takes to launch a successful app. And what he says is the biggest enemy of good enough is perfect. So I would actually say the biggest challenge that our team has faced in creating this app is finding that balance between a version of the app that is good enough, something that is going to offer value to anybody who would download the app and use it while also knowing that we want to keep making it better and better. And so what I feel like we've done is the version that is live right now is incredible. I love it. And we also have a pretty robust product plan that we're going to be rolling out to just keep making it better and better. But the thing that we're really trying to do is get people in the app using it and then have the future versions of it be built and inspired by some of the feedback that we're getting from our customers. How much fun is it to create a product from scratch? Well, creating something from scratch is a ton of fun. And one of the reasons why it's been so much fun is been just the approach that we've taken to create this app. So we pulled together a really great team of people. And what I've loved so much about how we've been interacting together is it's very collaborative. So we are bringing ideas to the table, discussing them as a group and then allowing the group to help make those decisions. And one thing that David I've learned from you is if you take the joy of the decision away from somebody, you take the joy of the job away. And one thing I've been really intentional about and leading this project is that I'm not making every single decision. I want to offer my suggestions and insights just like anybody else. But I really have empowered the team to make decisions, especially when we're talking about things that are outside of my expertise. And so for anybody creating anything from scratch, when you can be dreaming up something and then have a team to go out and execute it and to do it in a really collaborative way, I just feel like that's the best way to do it. And it's been a lot of fun for us for sure. Have you ever wondered what David is thinking as he interviews our guests each week? Or have you been interested in hearing David's take on some of the questions that he asks his guests? Well, I do and I know a lot of you do too. My name is Koolah Callahan and together with David, I host the three more questions podcast that airs every Monday. These episodes are just about 15 minutes and in them I asked David three questions that dive deeper into the themes of his episode with his guests. David shares incredible insights and stories from his career leading young brands and all of his answers are super practical and inspiring. Like this great insight, David shared and one of our most recent three more questions episodes. I think it's important that every leader gives everyone in the organization the sense that they count. Every great culture basically starts with that, the notion that everyone can make a difference. I always used to say, what are you doing in your piece of yum? Because if you do your job well and everybody does their job well at yum, there 's no way we can't possibly maximize our results. And I think it's the leader's job to let everyone know that what they do is valued, what they do is appreciated and what they do really matters. And together, if we all do our jobs well, there's no way we can't win. Get the three more questions podcast in your feed each Monday and dive even deeper into the episodes you know and love. Just subscribe to How Leaders Lead wherever you get your podcasts. Tim, you know, I want to talk more about how you lead. But first, I want to take you back. What's the story from your childhood that really shaped the kind of leader you are today? So when I was in high school, I started playing golf when I was a sophomore. And I actually set a goal my senior year to make it to state. And so after I set that goal, I was going to do whatever it took. So I was playing six, seven days a week. And there are so many nights that I can remember being out on the putting green after dark with my headlights shining on the green, practicing my four footers and chipping and putting. And fortunately, I reached my goal. I made it to state. I remember I think I shot 77 in our district tournament. And that was enough to qualify for state. And so I was thrilled, of course. But I would say the biggest lesson that I learned from that is, and the lesson I've carried with me today is if you're willing to do the work, you can actually reach your goals. You can make your dreams come true. But sometimes it's going to require you shining your headlights on the putting green in the dark. And being willing to do the work other people might not be willing to do is how you can really get ahead and make progress on the things that you really are passionate about. Early on in your career, I know that you spent some time at Tom's shoes. What'd that experience teach you? So Blake Mykoski is who started Tom's shoes. And Tom's became famous for their one-for-one business model. So for every pair of shoes that they sold, they gave a pair of shoes to a child in need. And when I was at Tom's, it was actually very early on. At that time, they were celebrating giving away 200,000 pairs of shoes where today, they've now given away over 95 million pairs of shoes. The company has grown a crazy amount the past 15 years. But what I really love about what Tom's has done is the approach to the business and how they've gone about that kind of success. So Blake, when he started Tom's, where the idea even came from, he was in Argentina and saw some kids there without shoes and learned that these kids don't have shoes, they can't go to school. So here he was this entrepreneur and had an idea. What if we could make 250 pairs of shoes that are styled after the traditional Argentinian shoes and go back to America and sell them and then have some shoes to bring back to these kids that didn't have any? And so his dream, the goal at that time, was 250 pairs. So Blake works with this local shoe maker to create some shoes, takes 250 pairs back to the United States and quickly actually sells 10,000 pairs of shoes and realize that he had a good but big problem. And so he goes back to this local shoe maker and says, "Mucho Zapato's Rapido, like mini shoes fast." And so they ended up, from that point, realizing they had this huge idea and started to make a bunch of shoes and now Tom's has been this massive success. But Blake never set out to disrupt business with this brand new model, One for One, that some other people have now modeled their companies after, the people like Warby Parker and others. He never set out to sell 95 million pairs of shoes. He was trying to sell 250. And he also never set out to become the fastest growing shoe company in the world. But all of those things happened and the reason why I believe all of that happened is the focus that he had on just one life at a time. And so I would say that's the lesson that I learned, the importance of focusing on one life at a time. If you do that, some really incredible things can happen and it definitely worked out for Tom's. You then went on and you worked at Apple Retail when Steve Jobs was the CEO. What stood out to you at the retail level about his leadership? Well you and I both know that a leader casts a shadow. People do what the leader does. And so here Steve Jobs was the CEO of Apple when I was there. But I'm in a retail store, several levels below him and yet his impact was felt across the entire company. And the first thing that I learned from him is just excellence being the price of admission. That's something that we used to talk about at Apple all the time. If you ever walk into an Apple store, you'll see even the way that the cables are managed under the tables. It's done with excellence and that is just a byproduct of Steve Jobs and his leadership. But the other thing that I think Steve had this ability to do was help you understand that you are a part of a larger story. You know, a bigger thing that was going on here than just selling iPhones and computers. And when I was there, that was right at the time when FaceTime was launched. You remember there were days when we didn't have cameras on cell phones or on iPods. And I remember a day that I was working there and somebody came in wanting to buy an iPod touch. But this person was deaf. And so what we did is we walked over to computer and we just were typing messages back and forth. And we're getting towards the end of the conversation and she says, "Hey, I just want to call my husband." And I remember thinking, "How are you going to call your husband?" But she pulls out her phone and is able to do sign language with him through her FaceTime camera. And that was such a huge moment for me because I realized this is selling more than just phones and computers. Like there is a bigger thing that is happening here where we are able to enrich people's lives with the products that we're selling. And so I think Steve Jobs always did a really great job of helping people realize not only that we should do everything that we do with excellence, but also just the impact that even something like an iPhone can have on someone's life and I love that part of it. And then Tim, you go on and you become the chief operating officer of Story brand, which is one of the leading marketing companies that helps brands cut through the clutter and simplify their messaging. What are the top one to two things businesses need to do if they want to be more effective on that front? Well something that we used to talk about at Storybrand all the time with our clients is this idea of your company is not the hero, your customer is the hero and you are the guide. So when a lot of people's marketing, they just start talking about themselves all the time, how great they are, the awards that they've won. And if you really want people to lean in to be engaged with your brand, the way that you do that is to make them the hero. What are the challenges that they are up against and how can you come alongside them to help them win the day? And so really what that means is you are Yoda and they are Luke Skywalker. So just take a look at your website and just do a quick assessment on is this website talking all about us and how great we are or is it inviting people into a story, talking about them and how you can help them solve whatever challenges that they are up against. And the second thing I would say is to solve a problem, identify what your customer's problem is and help them do that. So if you think about any movie that you go see in the first five minutes, you are going to be introduced to a character who wants something, they have some ambition and then they are going to encounter a problem. And so the rest of the movie is us sitting there for two hours trying to see if this hero, the hero in the movie is going to overcome their challenge. And we as companies need to actually be in that business is helping people solve their problems. So if you are a restaurant, you are solving the problem of hunger or if you make golf clubs, you are trying to help these golfers, hit it even further off the tee than they were last year. And so the more that you can also be talking about the ways that you are helping your customers solve their problems and being known for solving that problem, I think that is going to find you a lot more success and get you even more customers that are leaning in and engaging with your brand. So you work at Storybrand for almost a decade and I know as the chief operating officer, you are one of the main culture drivers. How were some of the key tenants that you really drove home as a leader? Well, I remember one day I got invited over to Dave Ramsey's office, which is based here in Nashville where I live. And I got to be a part of a team meeting with 60 people from one of their divisions. And they had a pretty standard staff meeting for the majority of it. But for the final couple of minutes, they did something I thought was pretty interesting. They did what they called shout outs. So for just a couple of minutes, various people went around and gave verbal paths on the back to one another for things that were happening behind the scenes that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. And I remember thinking at that moment, that is something that we are going to do at all of our Storybrand staff meetings moving on. And that's exactly what happened. But that really was the beginning for me to start to see the power of recognition and helping people understand that they mattered and that they were making a contribution. And so that idea of recognition was something that I would make a really big deal of as a leader. And I would say probably the most fun that I ever had recognizing somebody was at the end of the year, we would have our employees vote on one person to win an equivalent of an employee of the year award. And we actually called it, "We'd be screwed without you." And so our entire team was voting on who is the one person in the company that we would be screwed without them. And so this particular person that won the award that year were a huge Saints fan, New Orleans Saints fan. And so I was able to track down Drew Brees and got a video of him recording the announcement of this person as the winner. And just the look on his face. I mean, first of all, Drew Brees pops up on the screen and then he says this person by name. Tyler, I want to announce you as the winner of the "We'd be screwed without you " award. And he was just losing his mind. It was so much fun. But I just love what happens when people feel recognized. And it's a big part of my leadership. And I know it's a huge part of your leadership as well. Tim, you write this book called "The Secret Society of Success." What is the secret society of success? I want to be in it. Well, I'll tell you about it. So I'm sure everyone listening knows the story of Apollo 11. You know, you've got Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. But what a lot of people don't know, there's a third astronaut on that mission and his name was Michael Collins. So Michael Collins is actually the guy that UBER, Neil and Buzz to the Moon. So he drops them off so those guys can do all the things that they had to do on the Moon's surface. Well, he actually stayed back in the command module and orbited the Moon something like 26 times until those guys are ready to be picked up and brought back to Earth. But what I love about Michael Collins is that when he got back to Earth and sat down with the press, he talked about how content he was to have had one of those three seats. He was just happy to be part of the mission. And Michael is such a rarity because it just feels like in the world we live in today, if you want to be successful, you have to step into the spotlight. You have to have fame and money and power. But the secret society of success operates very differently. They show up in the world very differently. And if there's a common denominator for what it means to be in the secret society of success, I'd say it's this idea of helping others win. David, what I appreciate so much about your leadership is when you're running young, you had 1.5 million employees. It would have been so easy for you to make it all about you, but you didn't do that. I just feel like you use your position to serve more people. And so that's what the secret society of success is all about. You, my friend, are in it. I would actually say you're the poster child of the secret society of success. But that's really the big idea of the book. And I'm just trying to help people kind of transition into a life where they can make it about other people. Isn't what you're really saying here is that success really comes from making the assist? It is. And I remember when I was at Story Brand, I hired every single employee. And one day there was an application that came through. And on this person's resume, they had one of my very favorite companies listed. And I was so excited to talk to them about what it was like to work at this company. So we're in this interview and I'm like, okay, tell me everything. I was so excited. And she said something that I'll never forget. She was talking about this culture and she said, you know, it's a really competitive environment, but here's the thing. Nobody there has your back. And I'm like, what do you mean nobody there has your back? And she goes on to say that everyone there was so interested in their own success, their own climb up the ladder that they would never do anything that looked like them helping somebody out or, you know, working on somebody else's project unless it had something to do with serving their own agenda. But I've just found that for me, success is in the assist. I just believe that some really amazing things can happen when you're willing to come alongside others, try to make them successful. I just believe that that's us on a better path. And that's how I've tried to show up in my life for sure. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Tim Schur and just a moment . Tim says that the success is in the assist. And hey, maybe it's just the basketball metaphor, but it reminds me of this terrific insight from John Caliperi, the legendary basketball coach at the University of Kentucky. If you care about your people, you always have a job. If they know you're about them and you truly care and you're about their growth , you'll always have a job. And the best piece of advice I had was in 1989 by a guy named Pat Nardelli, who was our supporter for our high school basketball team. And when I got the UMass job, he grabbed me and he says to me, remember this, Cal, you can have a bad deal with good people because stuff happens, but you can never have a good deal with bad people. It doesn't work. It doesn't. I don't care what it smells like, how much you think you're going to make. Don't do it. So for me, my entire time is when I bring people near me or the good people, you know, do they have good hearts? Are they shares or takers? Do they add energy or do they zap energy? And those are the people around me, but the people that I'm here to coach, they got to know, man, this guy cares about me. This guy's about my future. This guy is here to make me better. If you want to see the power of caring about your people, listen to the full conversation with Coach Cow, episode 22 here on How Leaders Lead. You know, I know that one of my favorite, and I think it's one of your favorite podcast episodes that we've done on How Leaders Lead was with Scott Hamilton, the famous ice skater. And I know he's a mentor of yours. What would you say has helped you the most on? What Scott has helped me the most on is the way that I look at failure and the way that I view challenges and setbacks. So most people know Scott for winning the gold medal at the 1984 Olympics, but what he's done off the ice is what's impressed me most about him as I've gotten to know him. So here's this guy who's had cancer and multiple brain tumors. But when he talks about those things, he talks about it as a blessing. It's just this incredible perspective that he has. And if you would have asked me before I met Scott, what success looks like, I would have drawn a line up into the right, but I've learned that is not actually how it works. In all of our lives, there are going to be failures and setbacks. And Scott's story is one that just shows how important it is how you respond to those setbacks. So for Scott to have had all of these really challenging things happen to him in his life and to be able to call it a blessing, he does that because he said it's what's made everything possible. So I am learning to look at hard times a little bit differently these days because of him, to look at success differently because of how I've seen him live his life. And I'm learning to embrace those moments, but then to respond with optimism and to just really help it bring some perspective when those times do come because they're going to happen for all of us. Now, speaking of failure, we know that every leader has their share of failure. What's one of yours and the biggest lesson you ever learned from it? So David, there was a season of my life when I wanted to become the next John Mayer. So this was really my first business venture when I was in college. I wanted to try to make a living being a musician. And no matter how hard I tried, I just could not get the number of fans or people buying my CDs and merch as I really needed to make that a career. And I remember it finally hitting me that this dream was not going to happen. And I had a bunch of inventory in my garage that I finally just decided to throw in the trash. And that was a pretty big moment for me. But the biggest learning that I got from it is even in those failures, it can create some really incredible opportunities to pivot. And I'm glad I failed as a musician because from there I stepped into tour management where I'm still in the music industry, but I'm working alongside musicians, being like the logistics and the ops guy. And then from there I moved into artist management and started working alongside a musician. And then I started working with an author and then worked with another author where I'm really helping people on the business side and running the operations for those businesses. And so did I fail? Did that dream of becoming a musician happen? No. I'm actually looking back now on it, I'm super grateful that it has played out in the way that it has because it's ultimately led me to all that I'm doing today. This has been so much fun and I want to have some more. I have a lightning round of questions that I always ask. So are you ready for this? I'm ready. Okay. What are three words that others would use to describe you? Those people would probably say he's always smiling. Who would play you in a movie? Whatever actor is tall and lanky that person. I would say Jim Carrey. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Oh, well, I love seeing how things operate behind the scenes and would love to be Jim Nance for a day, getting to see the operation of either the masters or back when he was doing the final four. I would just love to experience either of those from Jim C. What's your biggest pet peeves? Sloppy work, something where somebody just didn't really give it everything that they could of. You get two front row tickets to anything you want. Where would you go? Well, I grew up in Kansas City and I've been a huge Kansas Jayhawks fan my entire life. So I would say I would want those tickets to be at Allen Fieldhouse watching the Jayhawks play against a top ranked team. What's one of your daily rituals? Something you never miss besides listening now to how leaders lead? Well, yes, every single day now I'm waking up and watching the daily insight video on the how leaders lead app. But aside from that, almost every day I'm filling out my gratitude journal. I try to start by writing down three things that I'm grateful for. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear either a podcast or live in Nashville. I have a lot of friends that are musicians and I love a lot of their music. So if it's not a podcast, I'm usually listening to one of them. What's something about you a few people would know? That I tried out for American Idol. I think that was like 2007 in Minneapolis. I tried out for American Idol. All right. We're out of the lightning round now. Good job, Tim. Just a handful of questions left for you. You and your wife Katie have two young kids, Justin and Elle. How do you lead at home? One of my friends, John Acuff says that if you want to raise a kind 16 year old , teach them kindness when they're six and give them 10 years to practice. I just love that. So when I think about what I want my kids to be as they get older, they're three and six, so they're young now. But recognition is such a huge part of my leadership and something I'm really passionate about. And so recognition is something that we try to teach our kids. And Judson is our oldest and we were at Chipotle not too long ago. And he leans over to me and says, "Hey, Dad, I really like that woman's shirt." And this lady was in her mid 60s and I said to him, "Hey buddy, you can go over there and tell her. You should let her know." So he walks over on his own to this woman and I see him telling her that he liked her shirt and just her face lights up. And then he starts walking back towards the table and he had this giant smile on his face. And so I just love giving him the opportunity to recognize somebody even for something like that. I just feel like if he's doing stuff like that now, if we give them 10 years to practice, we're going to have a 16 year old and a 13 year old that are being kind and recognizing other people. So doing that with both of our kids and I'm hopeful that it will have some kind of an impact on them as they get older. Last question. What's the best piece of advice you can give aspiring leaders? So if there's a North Star for me, it's this quote that I love from Albert Sw itzer and he says, "I don't know what your destiny will be. Some of you will perhaps occupy remarkable positions. Some of you will become famous by your pens or as artists, but I know one thing , the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who have sought and found how to serve." And that's the advice that I would give leaders is help others win. And why I love what I get to do every day with David Novak leadership is this is the kind of thing that we're trying to teach. We're trying to show leaders what can happen when they move from me to we. And one of the big ideas you talk about is taking people with you because you can never make anything big happen by yourself. And so, you know, what would it look like to come alongside people, work as a team to go make big things happen and do what you can as a leader to help every single person that you have the ability to interact with? How can you help them win and be at their best? And if we are doing those things each and every day, I just think that that is us heading down a really, really great path. Well, Tim, I love working with you and you're definitely helping us win. And I want to thank you for taking the time to be on this podcast. Thanks for having me, David. A lot of fun. Well, you can probably hear it in his voice, but I can confirm it for you. Tim really is always smiling. I'm grateful for him leading the charge here at David Novak leadership. And I love his message that the success is in the assist. Listen, it's so easy to get caught up in our own goals. But when we do, we miss those opportunities to help others win. The great leaders I know look for ways to shift their focus from me to we. I can promise you, when you do that, you're going to create the kind of team that gets big things done together. So how can you put this insight into practice? Well, here's a suggestion for you. This week, follow along with us on the How Leaders Lead app. We'll make sure there's a link to download it in the show notes. Watch every day's daily insight video, then send that video to someone you think could benefit from it. That's a really easy way you can develop your own leadership habit and let the people around you know that you're thinking about them and their success. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders help others win. Coming up next on How Leaders Lead is Joe Scarlet, the former CEO of Tractor Supply Company. You're only as good as the people you surround yourself with. I like to say, surround yourself with stars and you can be a star. Surround yourself with turkeys and you get sliced up for Thanksgiving. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [ Silence ]