Don't fake it till you make it. Be true to yourself. I say I'm really good at what I know, but I'm better at what I don't know. And I have no problem asking smarter people around me questions to help guide me. - Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple. You can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. So let me ask you, do you ever hesitate to speak up at work? Or maybe it's the opposite. You speak your mind a little too freely and it gets you in trouble? Well, either way, you're gonna learn a lot from my guest today. Constance Swartz-Marini is the founder and CEO of Smack Entertainment, a talent management firm, business incubator and Emmy nominated production company. She co-founded with Michael Strahan in 2011. And let me tell you, she has some great stories about coach Prime, Michael Strahan, Aaron Andrews and Snoop Dogg himself. But you're also going to discover why leaders need to have the courage to speak their minds and why doing it with authenticity and kindness is key if you wanna make big things happen. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Constance Swartz-Marini. Constance, thanks so much for being on the show. David, thank you for having me. I'm such a huge fan of yours. Just from when you were at Young Brands, I think you might know we've done a bunch of work with you and now in your, you say you're retired, but it sounds like you're busier than you were when you were running YAMM. So thank you so much for having me. I think I'm having just as much fun, which is saying a lot because I loved YAMM brands. And speaking of fun, you run a sports media company that's at least on the surface seems like a really fun business. What's the most fun thing that's happened to you recently? Oh my goodness. I mean, there's not just one thing, but I would say just everything that's been going on with coach Prime at Colorado has been out of this world. Whatever I anticipated it to be, it's 10 fold and he's just, as you know, he is one of a kind, he's a unicorn, he's so special. And you know, to have been with somebody for as long as we've worked together and to see him getting the shine that he so deserves because the light isn't about him. He uses the light to shine on other people. And I think that's what everyone's starting to really see. No question. I'm gonna ask you a couple of things about him a little later on. And then when you think about the business you're in, what would be one of the toughest things you've had to deal with recently? I forget what the saying is, but there's a great print and it's an iceberg. And they always say, you just see the top of the iceberg. And everyone's like, oh my gosh, like, that's just so beautiful and it happened overnight. But then when you really look beneath the surface, that iceberg at Glacier has been forming for millions and millions of years. And I would say that's the equivalent of being a successful entrepreneur. It's never a straight line. We get nose all the time. And it's my mission to like, how do I take that no and turn it into a yes? So that's probably one of the toughest things is when you know that whether it's the show or the client or the brand that when people don't see the vision that we have is it's never personal, but it's really hard not to take it personal. - What was the last no you had that you turned into a yes? - Oh my gosh, you really just put me on the spot with this one. I would say Snoop Dogg and I started the Snoop Youth Football League together almost 20 years ago. And we met with a great executive who was running MGM at the time, Jonathan Glickman. And we had this great idea that we came up with in the room to develop, create and produce a feature film inspired by the kids of the Snoop Youth Football League. We were on our way. Everything was great. Jonathan Glickman ends up leaving. A new regime came in. They weren't gonna make the movie. Once I explained where it came from, they gave me the yes. So we were like, amazing, we're going to make this movie, it's going to happen. Then Amazon bought MGF. So we were so close to being greenlit, which is one of the hardest things in Hollywood. So it was dead again. And we just literally locked arms with the other producers and with Snoop and we just literally like would just dig so deep in to explain to the powers to be at Amazon, prime video, why it was so important to make this movie. And share enough. I mean, that's we turned it from a yes, that went to a no to a navy into a yes. And the movie was streaming. I think it was the number one movie on prime video for three weeks in January. So that would probably be the last big one. - That's a great one. You know, I've heard someone describe your role saying you're like what Charlie Munger was to Warren Buffett. But you work with people like coach Prime, Snoop Dogg, Michael Strahan, Aaron Andrews and other superstars. Is that an accurate description of you constants? Or how do you see it? Do you see yourself as the Charlie Munger? - I've never heard that description, but that is such a huge compliment that I will take it. I have heard everything from Ray Donovan, except I don't kill people to just someone that has been behind the scenes for so long that it was just probably until the last two years that I started kind of dipping my toe and coming out when necessary. But that is a huge compliment and it's probably a pretty good description. - Well, you know, Charlie Munger was such a partner, but he was the behind the scenes partner. Is that how you basically operate? - Yes, I mean, there's a reason why a lot of people have just found out, you know, who I am. And I've been, I started my career at the NFL in 1991. I joke that I'm the shiny new old toy in the business because people are just like discovering, you know, more and more about my career. But I think it was intentional because when you work with such high profile superstars, smart people, it's about them. It's not about you as the business partner or the manager unless you're there to discuss the businesses of these people. And that's what I realized was until, you know, I start getting a little more comfortable to come in front. I can't be frustrated when I see other, you know, businesses kind of taking credit for things that maybe Michael and I were some of the first people to break walls down and break barriers and create new lanes of business and not do anything in the traditional way. So it's a little bit of both. I don't enjoy being in front, but it's something that I had to do to just pave, you know, the way and the paths for people that come behind me. - Well, you know, I can't wait to talk about all you're doing is the CEO of SMAC, but first you've had quite a career trajectory, no question about that. And I want to start by taking you all the way back to the beginning. You know, what's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today? - Well, I would say my mom probably has a lot to do with it. She had me very late in life. She didn't get married till her early 40s, had me at 43, which is so common now. But back then, when she had me, the nurse came into the room and they said, you know, after how old she was and they told them, they said, oh, no, no, no, no. We don't want your kid to be known as the kid with the older moms, so we're gonna not 10 years off your age. So, you know, she loved it. So she was really ahead of her time and I'm very public about this. My dad, who's passed away, was in the Marines, a Korean War veteran, and he ended up with a really serious mental illness. And that really shaped a lot of who I am today because he left us at such a young age that my mom had to step up and raised me as a single mom. And just, I never ever wanted to be in a position where I had to depend on anybody. And I was also told, so many times going up, no, like you're from Yonkers and not from Scarsdale. You went to SUNY as SWEGO, you didn't go to Syracuse. You have to start out, you know, taking a typing test for 60 words a minute with an egg timer, like you had to start out as a secretary. All those things shaped who I am today because I actually thrive on being the underdog now. - So you actually say that you've had a chip on your shoulder and does that really just put the power in your battery? Did it just really go up there and tackle all these nose and turn them into yeses? - Absolutely. And I always like to clarify, not every idea we have or show idea has to be a yes, but I am going to exhaust every effort to make sure that we can't turn it into a yes because I get it, you know, just 'cause we think it's a great idea, it doesn't always mean everyone else's but, you know, the way I started SMAC was when I was being interviewed, companies wanted to put me in a box, like you come from sports, so you should do sports. Then it was, well, you manage Snoop Dogg, so you should just be a talent manager. It was always, you should just do this. And I was like, you don't get it. Like, I have a decade at the NFL, a decade in entertainment, the future is combining all these things. And if you look at the similarities to the clients we represent, they are all multi-hyphenics as well. So it's important to keep the main thing, the main thing is Coach Prime says, but once you have that platform established, nothing can stop you to go after your dreams. - You know, it's really interesting, your big job or big break, it seems, was when you landed your job at the NFL in 1991, you mentioned, you know, tell us about that. You started out as an assistant. I wanna hear that story. - So going back to these typing tests, this is pre-internet, so you had the New York Times with the pencil, you'd circle jobs that interested you when there was employment agencies, which I guess would be the old school version of a LinkedIn. And you'd meet with the person that was, you know, kind of like your recruiter. And he'd rattle off the jobs that were available. And when I heard him say, NFL properties, I just lit up. I was like, that's where I belong. Like, I know it in my gut, in my heart, in my mind. The job at the time wasn't available. So he said, you have no office experience, go get office experience and then come back to me. So after eight months, I was like, I had all the office experience I need. I'm ready. And there was a position open. And again, no internet. So I went to the library and I looked up on Dun and Bradstreet, everything I could about NFL properties. And for those people, for my generation, you had, you know, like the microfiche and you'd print off of it and the whole thing. And I just studied and I went in for the interview with Jim McCluskey, who was in human resources. And I just, you know, started rattling off all the things I knew and he said, how do you know all this? And I was like nervous. Like I did something wrong. And I said, well, I just ran, you know, Dun and Bradstreet on NFL properties. And he said, we've never had an assistant interview where somebody knew as much as you did. And he said, I'm sending you on to meet with the potential new bosses. And that's how it all began. - You rose up in the NFL to the point where you actually start a brand new division for the company. And as you were climbing the ladder, what do you think really separated you from the pack that others can learn from in terms of leadership? - This was a different time. And I always tried to have to level set for where we are, you know, with today's generation and the workforce. But back then, you know, we didn't get paid for overtime. We were, you know, under the mindset that we were lucky to have a job at the National Football League 'cause there were hundreds of people that would take it in a heartbeat. And I just wanted to literally drink everything in and learn everything I could. So I would, you know, be at my desk as an assistant working, whatever, you know, 830 to 7 to do the main part of my job. But then I would go talk to some of the folks in the other departments and just ask them, you know, is there anything I could help you out with that's not going to interfere with my daily responsibilities? And just with thirsty, I guess, you know, without understanding I was an entrepreneur mindset back then. But I didn't have mentors, you know, or access to internships or, you know, any big leaders, it just was in an eight feeling. No other better way to describe it of just, I always wanted more. I just, nothing was ever good enough. And I guess I would say that carries over to now is, you know, I just always have to keep setting the next wall to bust down. - You know, I love the fact that you said you were thirsty. That's an interesting word to describe your ambition. How did you manage this sort of like, um, bridal passion to go for or take on more? - Oh, well, I'm still very good friends with about 10 people I went to college with and just was lucky enough to have dinner with them a couple weeks ago. And I had a rough start. I skipped my senior year of high school, went to college probably a little too early, didn't study as much as I should have. So I started out on academic warning. But then by the time I took my first marketing class, I just came to life and I knew that's where I wanted to be. So by the time my senior year came, I was president of the American Marketing Association. I was, you know, bringing speakers in and all these things that my friends make fun of me, which I'm totally fine with. I had a briefcase my senior year. I don't actually remember all this, but they'd be sitting around hanging out like in the union and just be like, should we be worried? Like she's got interviews lined up and she's carrying this briefcase. And you know, I had like one suit that I could afford that I just recycled over and over again for different things. And I would love to pretend that I could sit here and analyze, you know, the science of it all. But it's a funny word to use, but I just thirsted for whatever I could take on. And maybe it was because, you know, as a kid, when, you know, the floor could be pulled out from under you at any given moment, you end up going into this place of, I just never wanna be dependent on someone or something. Like I always wanna control the situation. And that's, I'm sure somebody could psychoanalyze that, but that's probably how it all started. And then same at the NFL, similar to now, I loved it. Like, yeah, there were challenges. Yeah, you know, I dealt with some chauvinistic instances and things like that, but I wouldn't change anything about my time there. There's no MBA that would have taught me what I learned there. I'm still very close to people that work there or came from there. I can call any of them because I had two great first bosses, Maureen Rosen and Jim Schreibel, and Maureen instilled in me, like out of the gate. When you mess up, we use a different word, and you will own it. Like just own it. Come to me and say, I messed up. Like, how do I fix this? So there was that piece of it. She was a trailblazer, is a woman in sports, and she ended up having a child, you know, later in life and wanted to go part-time and then some of my retire. And she told me, whatever you want to take on, I'm going to support you. So I had such an amazing experience in that sense that at that time, like, I just didn't see any guardrails. It was like, let me just keep going and going and going until someone tells me you have to stop. And honestly, the only reason I left was as the entertainment department, you know, grew and grew, more people from that side of the business were offering me jobs. And I turned all of them down until this one happened, that they were offering to double my salary, gave me my own department, you know, I got a VP title. And it was one of those, I have to take a chance. If it doesn't work out, I'll figure it out. And that's honestly the only reason why I left. And it's all worked out to my advantage because I learned so many other skills, you know, from then till now that when SMAC was born, I just took everything that we learned there. And I wish I knew how advanced NFL NFL properties was back in the 90s because as time went on, it was, you know, people are talking about branded content or branded entertainment, like it's some new idea. I was like, that's what we did every day, you know? And people talk about reality shows. What do you think the NFL was? There's a statistic that showed out of the top 100 television shows last year, 90 something were NFL related, like 10- - 97 I think the number was- - There you go. - It's amazing. It's amazing. So to have that is my starting, you know, point, couldn't ask for anything more. - You're renowned for being so innovative and forward thinking, give us an example of how you take people with you when you're breaking furniture and basically coming up with new ideas. I mean, you gotta, you gotta convince your team and senior leaders to get on board. What's your process for doing that? And it'd be terrific if you gave an example of one of those innovative ideas that you had and how you brought people on board. - The first one that comes to mind is probably Michael Strahan, you know, transitioning from having the NFL on Fox job as soon as he, you know, retired from the league. He then had a sitcom. The sitcom didn't get picked up for second season. He thought he wanted to follow, you know, the actors, you know, dream kind of following in the footsteps of the rock. And then he realized it wasn't for him, meaning the audition process and things like that. So we were like, all right, like we'll figure it out. And then one day he got the call as a guest host to fill in for Regis Philbin who was on vacation. So I went with him, of course, and we're sitting in the dressing room and, you know, he's prepping, although there wasn't much prep. Like you get there and you're live at nine o'clock, you have your notes, he knocked it out of the park. Like I was sitting in that dressing room and I just got that crazy feeling that I get and he walks in, he's like, how'd I do? I said, this is what you're going to do. He said, what do you mean? I said, we're going to develop our own talk show. He's like, you're out of your mind, which he still says to me to this day when I call him at five o'clock in the morning, my time, when he's still on GMA. And I just get, I don't want to see like a vision, like I'm some, you know, nutty person, but I just see things and I don't know how to explain it. And I guess maybe because I had such a great run, you know, with Snoop when I managed to back in the day that people did trust me. And I always say, we're in this together. So I go, you go and, and sure enough, Michael did get the job to replace Regis. He was like, I go, you go. And that was when I started, you know, commuting with him back to New York where I was from, you know, had a place in New York and all the things. So it takes a lot of trust, obviously. People don't all the time just say, let's go. And it's so much being true. And I know everybody hates the word authentic now. It's like what synergy was in the early 2000s. But if you look at a roster, if you look at the products that we build in launch, if you look at the shows we produce, the common theme is authenticity. Because once you can stay true to who you are and yourself, the success, the money, it comes. And that's same thing with Coach Prime becoming a head coach at the collegiate level. Same with Aaron Andrews, having this idea, because she saw white space for women sports fans that were women and not having options to buy some maybe a little more fashion forward products. Like, you just have to really always be upfront, be honest, and just link arms and go together. - You know, another story that I heard or read somewhere was about how you had to get buy-in for an up and coming band to headline a big event right before the Super Bowl. Tell us that story in the lesson it taught you. - This was the mid 90s. My boss at the time was Commissioner Don Garber, who's the Commissioner of Major League Soccer. And he came to my, I think I was probably still in a cube back then, came to my cube and he said, "I just got a call from someone at a record label. "They have a band they think, you know, "would be good for us to use at the tailgate party. "Can you take care of this?" So I was like, "Of course." 'Cause that goes back to where you were asking me, like with, you know, you being thirst, like these were opportunities that just come once in a lifetime and you have to seize them and take them and turn them into your future, basically. So I got some of the guys from the office and we drove out to Jones Beach and this band was opening, I think for Phil Collins or Genesis, like somebody in that genre and they were amazing, like amazing. I couldn't get over it. I go back to the office, I said, "Don, I saw this band. "We need to book them for the tailgate party." And he was like, "Con, are you crazy?" Like, this is the tailgate party for the NFL's owners, the sponsors, the broadcast partners, like all of our VIPs. We can't just put some new band up there. I said, "Let's book." I think it was either cool and a gang or Casey and a such event. Granted, this is the 90s. So like, remember the timeframe? I said, and if we're wrong, we flip it. I said, "You can publicly fire me, blame me, "like I will own it." Like, that's how strongly I feel about this. So this is July, maybe. By the time Super Bowl is coming around, Super Bowl was still in January back then. It's Houdi and the Blowfish. They have now been nominated for, I don't even remember how many Grammys, they've sold millions and millions of records. They're the hottest band, not just in the country, but in the world. And it was great for me because I nailed it and I could care less about credit. I just love to just get the job done. But by having, you know, Don believe in me and me being just so, I guess, probably a strong in my convictions and my belief in it, it just changed literally the trajectory of my career. And I met so many great people from the music business that that was how this entertainment division started because I would sit down my friend Evan Lambert who was at EMI Music Publishing back then once a week. And he'd, on a piece of paper, hand-write names, emails, phone numbers of executives in the entertainment industry. And when you call somebody, you say, you know, this is so-and-so from the National Football League, you usually get a call back. And that was just how I started to navigate the entertainment industry. I just grew such a big roll of decks that so many of those people today are my friends. When I went to go work at the firm, it was Jeff Quantness who was somebody on my list who was this Die Hard Raiders fan, you know, so it was a natural step for me to move to Hollywood and go work in the entertainment industry from those relationships that I developed. - That's amazing. So the entertainment division of the NFL came from your initiative, your brainchild. So you start up this new division, you're having all the success in the NFL. Then you make this shift, you go to this record label and you said you doubled your salary and you just took that flyer to get out there. What was it like to go into a new industry like that? 'Cause I don't think you were there that long, but what did you learn that really catapulted the way how you even thought about what you could achieve as a leader? - I try to instill in people that there's no such thing as a bad job or a bad opportunity if you can find a lesson in it. And even though the record business back then wasn't for me, I would never have learned everything about the record business that I did. So when I did move on to go work at the firm and I ended up becoming a talent manager of somebody huge in the music business, I knew what was happening. So instead of looking at that as say, I shouldn't have made that choice, I flipped the script. And I was like, I'm so glad I made that choice. And even though I didn't stay very long, I learned so much. And to this day, one of my best friends I met from there. And that's what was so great about it is that you can find the rainbow after the rainstorm. - You know, it's interesting. You brought up so many friends already. Are you one of these that really believes in this inner circle of friendship, the inner circle of love? I mean, how do you think about just the relationships that you've built? You stay in contact with your college friends. You know, what can we learn about that? - I have this theory. Life's like a bullseye, right? So when you're in your 20s, it's the outside of the bullseye. Everybody's your best friend and you make time for everybody. And you just love to just always be going out and networking and all the things. But each decade that bullseye gets smaller. And I think it's probably a combination of time and not having as much time and just realizing who's your 3AM phone call? So as many of these great friendships that I have and I've nurtured and I am a lot of people's 3AM phone call, I don't have the same circle as that outer bullseye but I can pick up the phone and call anyone from that outer bullseye. So I always stress to young people nurture those relationships because somebody that I met at 22 years old is that assistant. Is somebody 30 years later, I can pick up the phone, say, "Hey, I'm trying to figure out who the best person is to get this done or get this information." And you're always gonna get that return phone call. It's just, we get so caught up in looking for what an encyclopedic explanation of how to have success but we've lost just common sense. And that's what frustrates me about the world today is, you know, if someone, you take time to do an informational interview or whatever, you better darn well send an email thanking the person. Like all of these things have gone out the window and if you can just master the basics of life, you can have such a great life, not just in your career but in your personal life as well. I feel like I just went on a tangent done any of the answers or questions. - No, no, no, I love it. And you know, speaking of relationships, you gotta tell us a story that helped you ultimately become Snoop Dogg's manager. - I'm not sure when this is airing but I just have to give so much credit to Sarah Raymaker who's Snoop's now manager who pulled up this Olympic coverage because I am so happy that the world sees what a shining bright light that he is and it's just awesome to watch. When I was working at the firm, Snoop became a client. And at that point, I was working with the majority of the firm clients as brand partnership, strategic marketing, sports marketing. So when Snoop came in, he had a really, really big team. The firm was set up so well. The smartest group of people I've ever worked with in that there was an expert in every area. And Snoop came in with a few people from like his core team but he was sitting at the head of the table looking at the window and not listening to everybody. So we thought as they were, you know, pitching their ideas or, you know, trying to have him, you know, come up with plans for what he was looking for, whether it was touring or recording or all of it. And I don't know, maybe it was the oncars he made, maybe he was working with these, you know, big football players but I just kind of like banged on the table a little bit. I was like, "Hey, like if you're not interested "in a way and you just have to say, like, "we can all move on. "Like I get, you're busy, we're all busy "but we're here for you." You know, and in words like that and he like had this purple fur coat on and he like, it was like a scene out of a movie 'cause he's in the big chair at the end of the day and when he like turns around. And then the next day, someone from his team called the firm and they said, "We want the girl from the NFL "to take point right now." I was like, "I am not a manager. "I don't know what I'm doing." And they were like, "You are now." And yeah, it was an awesome run with him. Seven years, 49 dog years is my joke that never gets old. He's family, I still work very closely with his wife, with him on specific projects, with everybody, his kids now, Godmother to two of his granddaughters and I love him so much 'cause he's so brilliant and the world gets to see it. And I guess that goes back to, you know, one of my other things is just stay true to yourself. Don't be afraid, speak your mind. I mean, we're all, no one was born with the playbook. We're all figuring out as we go and think if we go back to that, that we can all express opinions, we can all hear each other out. We don't have to agree, but let's just go back to a time of civility. - So if I understand this right, you stood up the Snoop Dogg. I mean, he's in there with his entourage and you basically tell him, "Hey, you better listen to me or I'm out of here." You know? Now, what kind of advice can you give others on how to stand up to people who have so much power? 'Cause you're dealing with people who are in the big time power lanes. - I always say, I am going to treat everybody with the respect that I would like back. And it isn't until I can't get that respect back that I might, the Yonkers in me might come out. Like there's a saying is, you can take the girl out of Yonkers, but you can't take the Yonkers out of the girl. So deep inside, that's sitting here, but up until I have to tap into that, it's, why are you better than me because you are richer? Or why, you know, you're the CEO of this company? Like, we're born and we're all going to die. So it's like how you decide you're gonna bookend what happens is gonna not just impact whether it's your career or your family, but impact others. And I always try to come at it from a place of whether it's questioning, "Hey, I have some advice, could you help me out?" I'm not sure how to approach this. Like, don't fake it till you make it. Be true to yourself. I say, I'm really good at what I know, but I'm better at what I don't know. And I have no problem asking smarter people around me questions to help guide me. And I tell that to the teams that we work with, whether it's our clients, it's okay to say, "I don't know, let me find out, let me get back to you." And again, if more and more people would just operate in this way, it would just make life so much easier and better and happier. And look, this comes with experience and with age. And I still have to work on this myself, but you can't take things personal. If someone doesn't return my call or doesn't email me back, which happens quite a bit, still, it's not personal, it's business. And I just can't let it stay with me and drive me crazy, which is something that used to happen all the time in my younger days. And now I just try to let it roll off my back. And I will call those people out because at some point, they do need to call me back or something they might need. And I might gently tell them that they could have replied to my email three months ago. - Is that why WinNotIf is one of your favorite phrases? You know? - I love that, right? It's such a win, not if. And by the way, I see you're a Patriots fan. Don't think I'm not seeing that logo over there. - Oh, I'm really a Chiefs fan, but I'm wearing this, but I don't know, it must be because you were with the NFL. - And I'm got my Giants Cup. I actually did a podcast with Tom Brady early on in my under-hally just lead. And I got this Patriots shirt from him, you know? - That's great. - I wear it with a great deal of pride. I actually did not think a whole lot of them until I met him because I hated how he kept beating every team that I liked. You know, but I guess that was a WinNotIf kind of moment for me. You know, so let's move forward a little bit. You know, you co-founded Smack Entertainment in 2011 with Michael Strahan. Give us a snapshot of the company and all that you're responsible for. - Well, the company now definitely isn't what it was when we started it from my kitchen table. So it's three different verticals in that it's talent representation, it's production, and then we call it brand incubation or brand building. And if you look at our roster, they are all multi-hyphenists. They do really well in Excel, you know, at their core job, but they have the drive and commitment and passion to use that platform or the main thing to go and explore, have success in other areas. So whether it's hosting a show, producing a show, creating a clothing line, you know, instead of only the NFL or sports broadcasting, it's, I want to be an actor. So that's, I think what sets us apart in that area. And then on the production, it's not just our clients. You know, we've got a couple of shows coming out later this year that none of our clients are involved in, but they're just really great shows and great projects and we have amazing partners. And then on the brand incubation, brand building, it's like we always say, somebody comes up with an idea and we take it from an idea to an execution. And on the talent side, I always say, I'm either the dream maker or the dream killer because it's my job to pull holes in order to make sure that we can do, you know, the best job for the client in that sense. So sometimes I'm the one that says no, which none of us like to hear, but we are going to exhaust every possible path to see if we can, you know, plug the holes to get to a yes. - We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Constance Swartz-Marini in just a moment. Well, if you didn't hear the news, Starbucks recently announced Brian Dickel as their new CEO. He's the guy who's taken Chipotle from $6 billion in market cap to well over 60 billion. And in our episode of Howl Leaders Lead, Brian shares the three things that have powered that massive turnaround. - That was one of the things I wondered to do is make sure that we picked a critical few items. Once we picked the critical few items, it was like, do we have the structure to go make this happen? So, I mean, this is classic things used to talk to me about all the time, strategy, structure, now execution, right? When you looked around the structure, I was like, man, we don't have some of the experts that we need in these areas to fulfill our ambition or our strategy. And so we had to make some changes. So it was taking the time now to invest in having the right people in the right positions so that we could execute the strategy. And then look, we held ourselves accountable. It's like, now we're going to go execute against these things. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Brian, episode 168 here on Howl Leaders Lead. You know, smack entertainment is sports, media, and culture. That's what smack stands for. Tell me how you've applied culture to create a new idea or how you think about that, because that has to be something that makes you a novel company. One thing that's, well, there's many things, but the one main thing is this business has grown, is Michael and I want to stay true to the culture that we've created. We've never wanted it to be like a formal, stuffy place. You know, when we're hiring new people, I have a painting here by a great artist from Estebrook, but it's just very simple. It's a black background and a bright pink letters, it says F-U-C-K. Like, I don't want someone that's going to come work here that's going to be offended by it. It's not directed to anybody, but it's just an expression. And so that's what I mean by it. Like, I want everybody to be able to be who they are without obviously being disrespectful or, you know, hurting anyone's feelings, but we just don't ever want that to get lost, because I feel so strongly that one of the main reasons we are so successful is everyone has a voice. Michael and I are always open to everyone's ideas. We don't know everything. We're open to change, we're open to evolution. And I think what speaks volumes is that we have two senior leaders that have been with me for over a decade. We've got a whole bunch of young people, six people started as interns that still work here and four of those six are in upper management positions. So it's so important that we mentor and grow and lead for the next generations to come. And that's another place, like whether you look at it, you know, the music business is going through such a change because you don't really develop artists anymore because it's this, you know, quick, you know, service like a song is hit. It's not about the artists. And even now, I think the college football, the players aren't able to be developed the way they were before because of the portal and, you know, the financial implications on some of these schools. So I just will never change how I am and wanting to give back and help, you know, form the next leaders of the generation to come. - You and Michael are very close, obviously, you know, but every partnership and you have a great one, you get tested. Can you share a story about when maybe you and he were tested as partners and how do you work your way through it? - We actually do agree. I would say nine out of 10 times, which is rare, but it just goes to how we were raised, you know, with the same work ethic and the same convictions. Like his dad was a big when not if, my mom was a big when not if, but I would say the toughest part for us was during the pandemic because I've always been by Coastal since we worked together and I wasn't traveling. Like we stayed in LA and we just really didn't know where we were going to end up on the other side of this. So it didn't test our partnership and that we disagreed on many things, but to not have that connectivity of, you know, seeing each other all the time. Because even when he was coming out for football, no one wanted to take a chance. It was so early like I'm getting together because what if, you know, I had it and you know, you're gonna infect the whole Fox, you know, crew or just something. So that would probably be the biggest test for us was just getting the company to the other side because like everyone, everything stopped. Our retail business, we made suits. I mean, who's buying a suit in March, you know, I mean, of the summer of 2020, nobody shows their suspended, productions are suspended. And we had 14 employees back then. So it was like, how are we gonna keep everybody employed at the salaries they were? And we did it and it was a test in that sense. The one who tests me the most is coach Prime because there's very few people that I like to say can match me as a marketer and he is one of them. And he goes so fast and so far that I have to be the voice or reason in many instances. And thankfully we agree. I mean, there's a funny story that if you asked him this would be the story he would tell you this happened once before and we don't compare notes. So when he was the head coach at Jackson State, he had like a white board in his office and he would write down all the sponsors that he wanted to partner with. And he had this idea that he wanted to do a condom that said, we've got you covered. (laughs) Now I get it. He's a very influential leader of young men. He's very, very upfront and honest with them as you've heard the stories. And if you follow him on social media you will see the advice he gives these kids before they go off on a long weekend or spring break. So in that sense, I knew where he was going with it. But every time I'd go to Jackson I would get the eraser when he was in his office and I'd wipe it off the board. I need to start yelling. It's say I'm bringing who works for him directly and is this back and play. And he'd be like, she's crossed it off the board again. I'm putting it back up. I'm putting it back up. I was just like trying to protect him from himself in that sense because at that point he was new to the head coaching game. I was like, this isn't where we should go right now. Now to his credit, years later we did explore it with some of the bigger companies. There might be something coming down the line but it didn't happen yet. But that was the one time where he, I think he was probably ready to kill me because I just wouldn't go for it. - You are a great marker. There's no question about it. And I know you really look hard at what's going on in the world and you try to find, you know, white space and then lean into that. As a leader, what process do you use to figure out where to place your bets? - A lot is very gut driven. I did a panel many, many years ago with Chris Voss. I don't know if you know who he is, but he's the former FBI hostage negotiator. And they wanted us to do a panel on the art of negotiating. And I said, no. And everyone's like, why? I said, this guy's brilliant. There is no way I'm gonna sit next to him and talk about my gut and my visions and how I approach things. And everybody said, that's exactly why you two should be together. And so we went for breakfast and he's one of the smartest, most low key people I've ever met. And he gave me such a level of comfort because for all just my daily practices, he was able to explain the science behind it. And that was one of the really most eye opening experiences I've ever had because I'm always go, go, go, go, go. And I don't stop to think about, you know, like, why? I just know why not, right? Like, that's how I do it. But now as we've gotten bigger and there's, you know, a lot at stake with everything, I try to look five steps ahead or five moves ahead. And what I mean by that is the decision we're making today, how will that impact the client five moves from now? Is it going to help them? Is it going to hurt them? Or is it just gonna be sort of like that keeps them in the middle? And that's the most important thing. And like I say, we have a duty to protect our clients, not just from the outside world, but from themselves because they're all creatives, they're all visionaries. And they're gonna put these ideas out there and it's on us to just really look at the big picture and see if this is something that we think can work. And I take pride in really just the, again, as we've gotten talked about this, the no. I'll never forget when I was Snoop's manager, the Chrysler 300 had just come out. I don't know if you remember when that car, it was like revolutionary for Chrysler. And Snoop called the local Chrysler dealer and left him one of his very memorable messages on, you know, the answering machine, talking a bit of how he wants the Chrysler 300, da-da-da. Well, this local dealer ended up like using it in a campaign. And everyone's like, we need to get the lawyers. I go, oh, no, we don't. And I said to my assistant, find me the CEO of Chrysler. And we just cold called until we got a call back. And from that moment, I realized, you don't take the no for an answer, you don't give up because they put Snoop in a national campaign with Lee Iacocca. And for those younger viewers or viewers that don't know who that is, he was the grandfather of Chrysler, right? Like, I mean, just one of the most innovative people in the automotive industry. And when you see Snoop Dogg and Lee Iacocca together, it was just, and that all happened just because Snoop loved the Chrysler 300. (laughing) - I love it. And you know, you've got to learn so many stories about Snoop that I gotta ask you another. Take me to Park Avenue and how Snoop's youth football league got started. That's a heck of a story. - So one of the meanings I had with Snoop, I remember exactly where we were. And I just said, forget guardrails, like what's one of your dreams? And he took a minute and I thought he was gonna tell me I wanna be in a movie, I want my own show. He said, I played high school football. You know, I played in like this minor pro league. Now my sons are playing little league football, but I wanna be one of the assistant coaches and where they were playing at the time in Orange County, he said, they don't want people like me there. There's the Yonkers in me again, I'm like, what? I'm like, okay, what do you want then? He's like, I want my own league. I said, if you can trust me on this, I know we're just getting to work with each other. I'm going to make this happen. Commissioner Goodell wasn't the commissioner then. And that's who I called. And I said, Roger, you're gonna think I'm nuts. I said, but I wanna come in with Snoop Dogg. And he's like, kinda like, hello? Like I'm like, are you there? And he said, what are you talking about? And by the way, this is 2003 or four. This isn't the grandfather. Like this isn't Snoop at the Olympics. This is gangster rapper Snoop, right? I said, please, just give me the room. I promise you, I think there's really something here. Because if you kinda scroll back and look at this through a bigger lens, look at where a lot of your players are coming from, communities where Snoop grew up in, places like that. They're not coming from these lily white leagues that are being played in parts of the country. And we can't ignore what he can do, you know, from that perspective. So to their credit, he said, let's go. So I brought Snoop. I think it was, I don't even remember if it was 280 Park Avenue back then. And I'm walking up those steps and I'm thinking to myself, how the hell did I get here when I just left the NFL? Like two or three years ago, I'm walking in to go meet Commissioner Talibu. Soon to be Commissioner Goodell with Snoop Dogg to tell them why I think it's a good idea that they should allow us and sanction us and have this youth football league. And to their credit, they saw it, they got it right away. They gave us the rights, you know, to use team marks and logos so the kids could wear Steelers uniforms and Raiders uniforms. And for years, we would play the Snooper Bowl at the Super Bowl location against another, you know, little league team. And that's honestly how I got back together with Dion because he had a young league called the Truth League. And he and Snooper friends, and they would end up playing pretty much every year at the Snooper Bowl at the Super Bowl. - The Snooper Bowl, I love it. You know, and you've launched multiple brands with Strayhand, but recently this clothing line called "Where" by Aaron Andrews. As I mentioned, you know, I am a Chiefs fan and my granddaughter happens to love Taylor Swift. And I mean, love Taylor Swift. So you got to tell us everyone that Taylor Swift, where story? - Oh my gosh. So Aaron and I started this, I think it's six fibers with the pandemic in between. You're just sort of like, what did that happen? So of course we launched this line right around the beginning of the pandemic. Great timing. But it's a female fashion forward licensed sports line. So there's, you know, Victoria's Secret has the pinket and shrink it. You know, there are brands that have it covered for the women that want to be bedazzled in big logos, but we were going for the fans like ourselves who want to support their teams, but not have, you know, these big logos everywhere. So fast forward, you know, we're five years into this. We have the NFL, we have NBA, MLB, we have I think 50 teams in NCAA, we have NHL obviously. And Aaron had become friendly with Taylor's publicist, you know, she'd invited her to a game. And it goes even back a little bit further when Travis had, you know, talked about how he went to a Taylor Swift concert and he couldn't get her the bracelet. And so on Aaron and Chris Thompson's podcast come down with Aaron and Chris, they brought up the fact that Travis, you know, went to the show and then he get together and they just made this plea like to Taylor Swift, not that anyone thought she was listening to the podcast of course, but just saying how great Travis is and do it for the country and all the things. So fast forward when it actually, you know, comes out that they're together, we're like, oh my gosh, so Aaron was able to send her a chief's care package. And at that first game that she went to, and we realized it was our product that she was wearing, it was like blood curdling screams that people thought someone's arms were getting cut off by everybody separately 'cause we were all, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Thursday night game. So Aaron's, you know, like not broadcasting, we're all home watching the game, our phones are like blowing up like, it's ours, it's ours. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, like, it was the craziest, craziest thing. And then fast forward, you know, she wore, I think something from our jewelry collection to another game, and then the Holy Grail, it was Super Bowl Sunday where you're like, what is she going to wear? And the way she was wearing our jacket, we at first couldn't tell if it was ours 'cause of course Taylor's got such an amazing, you know, sense of style. She had it sort of oversized and hanging. And so Lauren Fennar, our COO of wear, like knows the product inside and out and texts all of us. It's ours, it's ours. Aaron was on a plane, Lauren was on a plane. I hadn't quite taken off yet. They said that they were screaming so loud that the flight attendants were like, is this the medical emergency? And they're like, oh, Taylor's wearing our product, Taylor's wearing our product. And there were these great memes like floating around of like the wear team finding out Taylor was wearing the jacket and all the things. And I mean, what that woman Taylor Swift has done for the world for as a business woman, it is remarkable. I mean, the Taylor effect, I've witnessed it firsthand and I'm so indebted to her. What was the Taylor effect on the wear line? I mean, what happened to sales? They just, I'm sure they went nuts. - They went nuts. You know, when you do sports licensing, the orders are placed so far in advance and because things are team specific, it's not like you have a whole bunch of inventories sitting around because styles are changing and evolving. So fortunately with our manufacturer, we're able to do, you know, what we call like a quick service like turnaround product. And we did fortunately have a bunch of Chiefs blanks that we were able to get reorders in as fast as possible. But then it just became, well, if this is what she's wearing, like we'll take another team just to say like we have it. But I witnessed it with my God daughter who I could ever like, I was like, "J'er, I wanna go to a game. Do you wanna watch the games? Do you wanna do this?" She was the furthest from a sports fan. I got more texts from her about, you know, Taylor being a Chiefs fan and being at all the games. And so she's like, "Do you have any more of those jackets?" And, you know, all the things. So it's remarkable. It is remarkable. - I wanna move on to prime. This is from the subject of football to a certain extent here. And just talked about one business you are brand you kept him out of at least for the time being. And you might get back into it at some point when it's more right for him. But as I understand it, you're one of the major reasons why coach prime became coach prime. Tell us about that. - I didn't have him become a coach 'cause he's been a coach since he retired and he started the league. Where I came in on, you know, maybe one of my crazy ideas was he always says to me, "I'm baking an idea, "but I'm not ready to share it with you yet." And I've learned, don't push him. When he's ready, he'll tell me. So we both happened to be in LA. He was working for the NFL Network. So I hadn't seen him in a minute. So I popped in to say hi. And he said, "All right, I'm ready. "You know, I'm ready to share with you this idea I baked." And I said, "Okay." You know, having no idea where that was going to go. 'Cause with him, you never know. And he said, "Well, actually I should back it up a little bit." When he retired, he was living in Dallas and he started the truth league. And that was everything from football, baseball, basketball, cheerleading and special needs. He could have had a career that rivaled Strayhand's career. He wouldn't leave Dallas. Aside from Sundays and Thursday night football, his kids and not just his children, but the truth children, that was the priority, always the priority. Anytime I'd say, "Hey, there's a new talk show, "will they film in Dallas?" No. "Hey, there's a series they want you to act in." Will they film in Dallas? No. He laser focused and it was more important to shape and influence and be there for these children. Not just on field, but off field from an academic standpoint with tutors and all the things. And I say that because it was a natural progression in my eyes when he said to me, "Shadora's leaving for college." Shilah was already a college. "I'm ready to make my next move." I sent a note to the AD at my alma mater and I want to help them recruit. I just didn't even think about it. I said, "Why would you help them recruit?" And he said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Why wouldn't you be a head coach?" And he looked to me and I said, "I get it's not the norm to go from a youth coach "to a high school coach to a D1 college coach, "but you're not the norm." Like, you know, you completely break barriers all the time. There's nothing that you have not put your mind to that you can't do. Like, why shouldn't we go for it?" And he was like, "Huh, he said our chore to, "you know, what do you think?" I said, and this goes back to one of my mantras. I said, "I'm really good at when I know "and I don't know the college coaching landscape. "Let me call one of my best friends, Jordan Beijant, "who was a big, big college football coach agent back then." And I said, "Jordan, kind of like these calls "I make to Commissioner Caddell, "you're gonna think I'm crazy." But I said, "I'm with Dion." And I gave him the background and I said, "I think he should go after a head coaching job." And Jordan without a doubt because of the longevity and trust of our friendship, knew I would never call him if I didn't think at the time this is Dion, you know, didn't know what he was doing. And he said, "I'm in, let's go." And that was how that happened. And, you know, he had some great interviews at some big D1 schools, but they weren't ready for him. I think some of them still aren't ready for him. And that was when, you know, we got an incoming call that word was out about him ready to take that leap. And it was the AD at Jackson State. And I had the call even before coach just to make sure like, you know, we would be great partners and we could help them, you know, kind of like we'd bring this Mac machine to everything. And then coach Prime had his interview and the rest is history. - When's he gonna become the coach of the Dallas Cowboys? - Oh, I don't think anytime soon. I really don't. - You wouldn't rule that out, would you? - You know, with him, I don't rule anything out, but he's so happy where he is and we have to bring a national championship to Colorado. That's first and foremost. - And he is definitely intent on doing that for sure. You know, and one of Prime's superpowers is how focused he is on we, not I. It's the we that really matters to him. How do you cascade that kind of thinking to your entire staff? - That's one of the main reasons that we work so well together. Maybe it's because I grew up in sports, it's never an I, it's always about the team. And that's the culture we fostered here is its teamwork. It's, I don't care if you're responsible for this client, they're not your client, they're everyone's client. And if you know that the person over in the licensing division has the expertise to go explore a merch line, you darn well better be going after that person's knowledge to help you bring the next level to your client. And that's why he and I have been together for 15 years is because we are a mock step about we, about helping others. It just comes naturally. It's not something either of us have ever thought about or called out. And he has elevated me to levels that I never saw for myself because of the belief he has in me as his partner, as a leader, as the person, you know, that comes up with the crazy ideas. But also he comes up with a lot of these ideas that we do our damn just to try to bring to life. He's really, if you've seen for yourself, he's so special, he really is. - You know, I've heard you say that haters never focus on a loser. Talk more about that. - So I have to credit that line to an amazing Emmy award-winning showrunner Ali Leroy who's developing a scripted series for us that's loosely inspired by coach. And that's a line in our pitch. And it's so true because if, and you could Google right now and just see so much of the non-truths of hate like I've never seen before. I know he's a polarizing character, but how you can hate on someone who's trying to offer the knowledge and the leadership and skills and academics to a generation of young men and women is beside me. Like you might have to agree with how he's unapologetically himself, but the fact that people just make stories up about what's happening is mind boggling. I mean, before I got on this with you, we just were having a strategic call with our comms team and with some people on the ground because there's just people that keep putting false narratives out there and we just all decided, let 'em. Like there's nothing, we're not gonna lower ourselves to them. And when you win, whether it's on field or off field, it's just gonna increase. So that's probably what we mean is haters never focus on a loser and that's part of it. And I have to say, I've learned so much from him, but one of the most recent skills that I've had to really hone in on is cut out the noise 'cause I am so defensive for my clients and my friends. You could take shots of me all you want, I don't really care. But when you take a shot at somebody who's dedicated their lives to empowering a younger generation, it's baffling to me. You had to source spot as you can tell. - I agree with you. You know, I had that opportunity to have my conversation with Coach Primen. I don't think I've ever talked to anybody that's more inspiring than him and more real. And I absolutely love the guy. So whoever's hating him, they're barking up the wrong tree if you ask me. - Exactly. - It's so easy to get caught up in the day to day, but when you give yourself time to zoom out a little bit and reflect, how would you describe what you and as a leader, what you're going through right now? And when you think about developing yourself. - I have to learn to celebrate the wins. We'll get a win and it's okay, great, what's next. And I have to take a step back and really appreciate where we are. And I've gotten better about it at last season's home opener. I just started crying. I was like, I can't believe that I'm a part of something so big. It's mind blowing. - Colorado wasn't used to having a sold out stadium. - It was wild. And you know, Michael and I talk about it all the time. Like we're usually, okay, we just sold the show, what's next, but I've now gotten better. I'll call them and I'll say, hey, let's just take 30 seconds. - I just let's appreciate and celebrate the win of selling this show or it's 10 years that you've had a clothing line. Like you've outlasted the majority of celebrity brands, you know, quote unquote, a celebrity brand where Aaron Andrews, you know, we get one league's license and we're like, okay, what's the next league? It's like Aaron, let's take a moment. Like this was an idea that was incubated. It's Super Bowl in San Francisco at an Italian restaurant with ideas written on a tablecloth. And we were told no, I wanna say five different times that we weren't gonna be able to get this line off the ground. And here we are, you know, going into our, I think our sixth season, the sales numbers keep going up even in, you know, the way the economy is. And Aaron is just, I would say like, she's not just a client, she's become family and business partner and nobody works harder on this brand than Aaron does. And I could say that about all of our clients. Like we have to match each other's work ethics 'cause if we want it more than they want it, it doesn't work. Then you just literally can drive the talent crazy. - That's such a great point. And this has been so much fun, Constance. And I really have had a blast listening to all this, you know? And I wanna have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? - Okay. All right. - The three words that best describe you. - Tough but fair. - If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? - Condolee's a rice. - Your biggest pet peeve. - I have too many. That's where I started. Those CSA's, the con service announcements. It's everything from talking in the restroom to chewing with your mouth open and to not responding. Like even if it's a no reply to the email, like just reply. That's all I'm asking for. Reply. (laughing) I gave you three, I'm sorry. - That's all right. Who would play you in a movie? - Stolee Roberts. - What's a, I see that. What's a life lesson that growing up in Yonkers taught you? - Never give up. - What's a phrase others would use to describe your leadership? - Oh, probably tough but fair. (laughing) Inclusive. I'm definitely inclusive. - New York or LA? - I bleed New York. I mean, I love LA in the winters, but I bleed New York. Your greatest career accomplishment so far. - I don't have one, but I would say if you're gonna make me pick one, it's the fact that smack is 14 years and we're going stronger than ever. - If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? - Hip hop. - What's something about you that few people would know? - I was on my high school bowling team. (laughing) - That's a good one. That's a good one. What's one of your, I haven't heard that one. - What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you'd never miss? - It's a silly one, but I have to kind of, it's maybe a synoced thing. I play three games to start my day. I start with wordscapes. I go to Salatera, then I go to RamiCube, and I just, I have to play them before I can start my day. (laughing) - That's the end of the life, you know, good job. You know, Constance, you have this eye for talent and people, you know, in your business, you know, you figure out who you wanna associate with and why you build brands with them. But I'm curious about how you spot talent internally. What are you looking for in the people that you hire and promote? - That they have an entrepreneurial spirit and they might not know it. And it's something that I want to see and get to tap into. The majority of folks that have been with me the longest, they started out in one area. And as I watched them grow, I could see that their skills were better suited in another area. And they might not have seen it at the time. And there could be some pushback. But once, you know, I'm able to have them trust me enough to go to that other department or that other position, the bird flies out of the nest. - You've talked about your mother earlier and she's, you know, so important to you and you've accomplished so much in your career. And your mom was a florist and she's still alive today at 98 years old. And I know she's been a huge inspiration. How have you shared your success with her? What have you been able to do with her that you never thought you'd do? - Well, my mom is on social media. So she will definitely be watching your podcast. She gets to kind of live it with us in that sense that she's savvy enough to see all the things that the smacks doing or the clients are doing. And even this goes back to the 90s. I was fortunate enough that I had plenty of miles from all the travels. So she'd always come to a Super Bowl or a Pro Bowl with me. And, you know, for her to have those memories now, it just means so much. And the fact that she's still alive and with it 110% and can celebrate my success with me, like you're gonna make me start crying now because there's nothing better. Like it's because of her I am where I am today. - You know, Constance, I asked you that question because my father's 95 years old. And, you know, I didn't grow up in Yonkers, but I grew up in a lot of the little small towns and they have a pretty unique background myself. But I think that's been one of my biggest joys is being able to share the success that I've had with him and my mom who passed away a couple of years ago. So that's really cool. - Oh, I love that. Last question, what's your unfinished business? - My unfinished business. Oh, I've got a lot of unfinished business. One of our big goals is we are working really hard to get our first scripted to the finish line. We've come close, we were on the 10 and five yards lines, but we never made it into the end zone. So that's a big goal for us. And I need coach to get Colorado, that national championship. I don't have much control over that, obviously. But it's just so important. I just want him to win so badly because that'll maybe silence a few of the haters. And I just wanna continue to just have more and more whereby Aaron Andrews, consumers, and just grow that business to a global level because all of a sudden, partially of the tailor effect, like, oh, women are sports fans? Like, who knew that? Just same thing with all these female athletes getting the accolades that are so long overdue and whether it's coach Staley at the collegiate level or coach Hammond at the WMDA level. Like, these are just, they're not great women's coaches, they're just great coaches. And to even take that answer a little bit more, I just wanna be known as the best. I don't wanna be the best as a woman. Like, I just, I don't want another award that is a woman in sports or do another panel is the woman in sports. Like, I'm so thankful and appreciative and blessed that I've had the career that I've had, but I just want this next generation to be known as the best and not the best based on their gender. - I just love that. And I know I can't relate to that because I'm a man, but I certainly appreciate that and understand where you're coming from there. Second last question. What's one piece of advice you'd want to give anyone who wants to be a better leader? - Listen, we don't listen enough. Like, you have to listen. It's such a basic skill, but just listen. - You know, Constance, I can keep you on here for a long time 'cause you've got so many more stories. I'd love to hear, but I wanna thank you so much. And it's just been great having this conversation. And I wish you continued success. And I think you're gonna grow that business like, you don't even know how much. You know, it's just gonna be continued to be great. - Thank you. And thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. And, you know, the aura of light around you just comes through the screen. So continued success to you and thank you again for having me. - I mean, can't you just picture Snoop Dogg wearing his purple fur coat zoning out? And here's Constance having the courage to speak her mind and call him out. - Man, I would have loved to be in that meeting. That kind of truth telling gets people's attention. It earns their trust. And in Constance's case, it transformed her career and earned her Snoop Dogg's business. Leaders need to speak their minds even when it feels uncomfortable and risky. And as Constance shows us, when you do it with respect and authenticity, you can build really strong relationships. - So this week reflect on how you really speak your mind. Do you opt not to share ideas because it feels risky? If so, ask yourself, what might be behind that fear and what you can do to address it? Because remember, the only failure you'll really have is the failure to address the fear that you have. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders speak their minds. - Coming up next on How Leaders Lead is Bob Chapman, Chairman and CEO of Barry Waymiller, a global supplier of manufacturing technology. - Business could be a powerful force for good if we realize we had people in our care for 40 hours a week and the way we treat them would dramatically affect the lens through which we see people we have the privilege of leading. - So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) [ Silence ]