Pat Kelsey 0:00

When you're having a lot of success, sometimes you kind of take your eye off the ball a little bit, and you start looking around about like, man, is is this next opportunity going to come? And sometimes when you do that, you're less effective in the position that you're in.

David Novak 0:22

Are you thinking about your next career move? Well, a lot of leaders are, but if you don't approach it the right way, it can cost you welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be. My guest today is Pat Kelsey the head coach of the Louisville men's basketball team. It's one of the most storied basketball programs in the nation, but these last few seasons have been a little rough, just to put it mildly. Pat Kelsey is here to turn around the program, and it's a huge task and a big role. But let me tell you, Pat is ready for it. He's got unbelievable passion and a strong focus on culture, which I love. He also says something that I think that every leader needs to hear, which is this crush it where you're at sometimes you get so caught up in thinking about your next big career move that you lose focus on what really matters, which is doing excellent work in whatever role you're already in. Now this conversation is full of powerful insights like that, plus Pat gives a motivational speech just for you. I'm telling you, if you need to get fired up for a big meeting, he's got you covered. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Pat, Kelsey,

Pat, it's great to have you on the show.

Pat Kelsey 1:58

Hi, David. It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for asking me. I'm really excited. You

David Novak 2:03

know, Pat we met at an event about a month and a half ago, maybe two months. And I'll tell you what, when we started talking, it was like two kindred souls. You are so passionate about leadership, and we were going back and forth on this. And you know, besides being kindred spirits and just our passion for leadership, you and I also have something else in common. We've both had the opportunity. You now have yours, but I had the opportunity to turn a legendary brand around in Louisville, Kentucky, and that was Kentucky Fried Chicken. And for you, it's Louisville basketball. You know what made you want to take this on? Well, you

Pat Kelsey 2:41

said it first, David at the beginning of that question, Louisville basketball is a blue blood you know, and there's a handful of blue blood programs in the country, and a blue blood program is one that just drips with tradition and drips with mystique. And I grew up 90 miles from here, up the road, up I 71 in Cincinnati. But even if I grew up 5000 miles from here, if you're a college basketball junkie, if you're a college basketball fan, the name Louisville is powerful. And in this town, the name Louisville was said Louisville, but it seems like everywhere else and where I grew up, it was Louisville, so I had to learn very quickly to make sure I said the name right, just growing up, growing up watching, you know, the great, great teams and the national championships and the dynasty that the great Denny Crum built, and then the great Rick Pitino came After him, and the success that they had, the players that they developed, and then the fan base, the passion, the fervor that this city has for the University of Louisville and just how powerful of a name it is from coast to coast and college basketball. So to me, it was a no brainer. You mentioned that the struggles for the last couple years that this great, proud program has had. And you know, it's my charge, and it's the charge of my coaching staff and every player that's putting on a Louisville Jersey today is to restore that pride. What you don't have to create here is the passion that people have for the program. You know, sometimes you might go into a power five program that's a football you know that that, that I don't know, and you're trying to draw blood out of a rock and create excitement. And, man, that's here. What I learned early, early on, as I walked around town and I went to restaurants, people come up with to you, and they tell you their Louisville basketball pass. They tell you their history. And it runs through generations. It runs through the blood of people in in this great city. And people tell you with tears about the first game they went to in the first NCAA Tournament, game that. They ran home after school and turned on the TV so they didn't miss a minute of it, or being there live for a national championship in 1980 or 1986 or 2013 and, and, you know, nobody wants to win David more than me, but since I've been here for the last nine months, and, you feel and see people get emotional about this program, getting back on the top of college basketball again, if it's possible to be more excited me, more passionate, more motivated than I am. And it's really hard to do, because I don't know many people that are more passionate than I am. I'm there, you know, coming out of that Kentucky game the other day and feeling the intensity of that rivalry, hearing their fan base, listening to the things that they yelled at me and my team, David, I'm counting down the stinking days till next year we play against those guys again. I'm proud to be the head coach here, and I'm excited about putting it back on top.

David Novak 6:01

And you gave Kentucky a hell of a run. And nobody would have predicted that last year. And you know, your team is getting better and better, you know, you mentioned this, you know, I, I had to, I had to follow the colonel. Okay, you have to follow the likes of the legendary Denny Crum and Rick Pitino. Does that put even more pressure on you in that seat? How do you look at that? You

Pat Kelsey 6:24

know, what I've chosen to do, instead of kind of running from those comparisons or shying away from them, is, is to run toward, you know, the success of Denny Crum and Rick Pitino and the great coaches that came before me, and to embrace it, you know, I've reached out to coach crumbs widow, who's been phenomenal to me. You know, it was really, really cool. And I don't know if he's going to be mad that I'm saying this on a on a broadcast like this, but I had a long text exchange the other day with the great Rick Pitino, which was really, really cool. Peyton Siva asked me he goes coach Patino asked for your number. Do you mind if I give it to him? And I said, Heck, no. And about 10 minutes later, I got a text from him, and it was a follow up from the Kentucky game which he watched. And my response, first of all, was like, Are you sure? Is this somebody like pulling my leg, or is this really Rick Pitino? And it was really him, and gave me some some, you know, just some good feedback, and said some really nice things. And it just made my heart beat fast, made the hair staring up my arms that that a guy like that, that's such a legend around here, cares about what we're doing, and acknowledged, you know, our game the other day against against Kentucky. So

David Novak 7:39

I know Rick, and Rick's a great guy, but he gets turned on by a great leaders. He gets turned on by people who are passionate and know what they do. So I'm sure you guys had a had a great conversation, and I know you have big ambitions for where you want to take this incredible program, and you know, and I really want to talk more about how you're going to be, how you're in the process of activating this, this turnaround and but first, I want to take you back a little bit. But can you tell us a story Pat from your childhood, something that happened to you that that shaped the kind of leader you are today? You

Pat Kelsey 8:12

know, that's a great question. I think, you know, the best thing that I could, the way I can answer that, is talk about my dad a little bit, because, you know, the the retail automotive business is grueling, grueling hours. The dealership opens at 830 and it closes at nine. And when you're in a position of leadership, you know, you you can't just talk the talk. You have to walk the walk. You have to serve those that you lead. And you know, my dad was the type of guy that was there when the when the when the dealership opened, and he was there when it closed. And I thought it was just normal for your dad to get home at 945, 10 at night, and that's when you had dinner in the in retail, automotive, your conference games, as I like to say, your Kentucky games are once a week on Saturday, right? Like you know the week is where you set things up, and then Saturdays your conference games, and that's, that's where the money's made. So not only did my dad work really, really long hours, but he was also gone every single Saturday. And then, you know what? About 20 years into his tenure, into the automotive business, they start opening on Sundays. And somehow, some way, my dad always found a way to be present. You know, it's if he had one off day a week, he didn't take it. And why didn't he take it? Because he would leave the dealership to come to my practice and coach my grade school games or grade school team. And he was one of the best coaches I've ever had, you know, whether it was when he was coaching st Vivian grade school, fifth grade basketball in 1986 my dad did that with everything he got, and he poured his heart and soul into into those boys that he was coaching. And so. Taught me that you fight and that you dive on the loose balls. You don't bend over to pick loose balls. You're always can be the toughest, hardest working player. It doesn't matter if the ball goes in. You might not be the tallest, you not may be the biggest, you might not be the best shooter, but you can always, always hustle and outwork people. And my dad taught me the value of hard work, you know, if he it wasn't, you know, grade school basketball where everybody gets a everybody gets a trophy. It's like, you know, if you lose and you miss two key free throws down the stretch, then you get your butt back home and you shovel the driveway and you put gloves on, you go shoot 100 free throws before you go to bed, you know, and that's, that's, that's tough love, but that that's how I was raised. Now, my dad was the most loving, doting father that you could ever imagine. But like he, you know, he was tough. So I think just learning those lessons early on about toughness and hard work and in leadership and passion for my dad kind of set the course for the rest of my life. Hey, everyone, it's Kula. We'll get back to the interview in just a second before we do though, I have a question for you. Have you downloaded the how leaders lead app on your iPhone? If you haven't take 20 seconds right now, go to the App Store, search for how leaders lead and download the how leaders lead app. In the app every day, you'll get a two minute video that'll give you a leadership insight from one of our amazing guests from our podcast to inspire you and to really get your mind in the right place before you start your work day. So go to the App Store, search how leaders lead download the how leaders lead app, and start your day every day with two minutes of leadership wisdom, it'll take 20 seconds go to the App Store, download the app, and you'll be able to watch every day, just like me, the leadership insight from how leaders lead.

David Novak 11:51

You know, you were quite the basketball player yourself, Pat. You know, finishing your career at playing at Xavier, when did the light bulb moment go off in your head? Where you said, you know, I want to be a coach

Pat Kelsey 12:05

when I went to college and I was playing basketball at Xavier, now, you said I was a really good player. David, guys that scored 1000 points are really good players. I missed 1000 points by 847 so I was a little bit below what they consider a great player, but I had my role as a captain. I was the captain of the scout team, and I played for one of the coolest guys that there's ever been in college basketball and that skip process, but I was a business major. I'm gonna brag for a second. I graduated cum laude from Xavier with a degree in business administration and marketing. And, you know, I my first instinct, if you will, getting out of college was I want to go in the business world. I was really, you know, intrigued with entrepreneurship. I kind of had this vision that I wanted to own my own business and start my own company. Wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do, but I kind of but Coach frosser was just like a mentor to me, and I respected him so much, and I looked up to him so much, and he was such a phenomenal leader. Once I got out into the business world and I tried some different things. I got my series seven. I was a stockbroker for a while, some guys at Paine Webber hired me to be a junior partner with them for a while, and I sold stocks and bonds, and they also let me coach freshman basketball at elder High School. So just like my dad, you didn't take any off days, you know, because they let me leave every day at three o'clock to five o'clock to coach the freshman team. Then I was back at five, cold calling and trying to trying to build my book of business. I realized after about a year like when I was in the gym, that's when I was happiest, that's when I was the most passionate. Whether I was coaching freshman, 16 year old killed kids at elder high school, or I was coaching in the ACC, it didn't matter I was coaching, I was I was teaching, and I loved it, and just through circumstance and good fortune and good luck, I was able to get an opportunity to go to Wake Forest with skip Prosser after coaching high school basketball for three years. And then when I went to wake I was the director of basketball operations, which was a really fancy title for I did all the dirty work. I swept the floors, I did the laundry, I chased guys to class, I ran basketball camp, but, man, I was doing what I loved, and I got there early, and I stayed late, and I crushed it where I was at. And I was really lucky from that point to get promoted as an assistant coach and then ascend to, eventually a head coach, to where I'm sitting here today as the head coach at one of the great programs in the history of college basketball.

David Novak 14:47

And it's been a great run. And you spent nine seasons as the head coach at Winthrop, you know, nine seasons, that's a long time, a long tenure, and well above the average for a college basketball coach. One place. And you know in the revolving door of college athletics that what do you see as the value of patience, of staying put? So

Pat Kelsey 15:09

when I was director of basketball operations at Wake Forest, I got some great advice from the great skip Prosser. When he hired me, he he he explained in in very clear terms what the job description was, and it was not very glamorous, right? It literally. It wasn't. You weren't allowed to coach, you weren't allowed to be on the floor. You were doing all administrative stuff. And as a side note, when I look back at those three years I spent as director of basketball operations, which forced me to compensate for some of my weaknesses, it helped me to become Ultra organized, because if you're not organized in those administrative positions, you're going to get fired, or you're going to be really, really bad at your job. And I'm a right brain guy. I'm an idea guy. I'm a guy where my desk is a mess sometimes, and I got 8000 things written on the wall, and it's just ideas are just coming out my eyeballs. But it really forced me, David, and it's funny how God works. It forced me to become organized and really learn college basketball from a business standpoint, and when I look now as I sit here as a CEO of a major power five program, that experience has become invaluable. But skip Prosser gave me the advice. He said, Kels, I can't promise you you're going to get a coaching position. This is the job description, if you're willing to do it, it's not going to be easy, it's going to be long hours, not going to be glamorous. It can lead to something great. My advice to you, Kels is to crush it where you're at. Crush it where you're at. Your job is to have the pizzas on the bus after the game. Make sure they're piping hot. Your jobs to have the Gatorades for the team ice cold. Make sure. Make make sure that's the coldest Gatorades ever. If your job is to run the summer basketball camp, we're fourth and fifth and sixth and seventh grade basketball players are going to be coming in from all over the country. Go to Wake Forest basketball camp. Make it the best basketball camp in the country. Your job is to run the video coordination of Wake Forest basketball. It's to have the tapes ready for the coaches to watch and break down, have them on time, be on it, on every single one of your responsibilities. And he said, If you focus on being great in this, everything else will take care of itself. And that's really what I tried to do. The first year, I was just trying to keep my head above water with all my responsibilities. The second year, I was more comfortable with all my responsibilities, and I was handling them much more comfortably, so I could kind of expand, and I could start to get into more coaching and basketball things. By the third year, I was doing all the administrative things, like spinning them on my fingers, like, like in my sleep, and I was really, really able to do more things basketball, and to push the envelope and to show coach that, that that, that I could do the basketball stuff. So, you know, after three years of doing all those things, a position open on the staff as an assistant coach. And and I give Coach so much credit because he put his neck on the line for me. He stuck his neck out for me because there was an assistant coaching spot in the ACC. And I'm 26 years old. I never did a scout. I've never recruited a player. I had zero experience. And there was a line David that was probably about 10 miles long of people that were more qualified than I was for that position. But I really believe that the work that I did for those three years being meticulous and being relentless in my effort. And you know, heck never leaving the office, being the first one there, being the last one to leave. Every single day, he walked in, and he asked me, he goes, coach, Kels, we have this position open. Are you ready? And I said, Yes, sir. And he said, The job's yours without interviewing anybody else. And you know, just that trust and that belief that he had in me motivated me, you know, more than anything, to prove to him that I deserved the spot that he was given me. So, you know, I just think that taught me a great lesson about putting blinders on, and, as he liked to say, crush it, where it's where it's at, and allowing everything else to take care of itself. So given

David Novak 19:42

that, you know, you just spend your nine years at Winthrop, how hard was it for you to move on to the College of Charleston?

Pat Kelsey 19:47

You know, it was a really interesting thing. David, so about halfway through my tenure at Winthrop University, and we had a lot of success, I was actually, I. I was named the head coach at the University of Massachusetts, and I was the head coach there for about 24 hours, and I realized very quickly after accepting the job that it just wasn't the right fit for me. And you know, I don't want to say it took a lot of courage, but it was a very, very difficult decision to to to take a step back and to, you know, ask if I could have my job back at Winthrop, because I felt like that's where I belonged at that time, and it wasn't the right fit to take that next job. And it was scary, because, I mean, it could have been career suicide, right? I mean, it could have been where I had the opportunity. I didn't take it, but it just didn't feel right. It wasn't in my gut, it wasn't in my heart. It wasn't the right thing for my family. So I went back to Winthrop and in, you know, it's kind of goes back to what we just talked about. It forced me to because at times, you know when you're coming up through the ranks like that. You know, when you're having a lot of success, sometimes you kind of take your eye off the ball a little bit. You start looking around about like, man, is is this next opportunity going to come? And sometimes when you do that, and you're not staying truly present where you are, you're a lesser version you're you're less effective in the position that you're in, I was a less effective leader because, you know, maybe I'm looking right and I'm looking left, I'm looking for the next opportunity. Well, after that situation occurred, it almost forced me, because in my mind and my heart, I said I might have ruined my chances for a bigger, you know, a bigger job and a bigger opportunity. So what it forced me to do was make my current job my next one, to treat my current job like my next one. And that's the way I like the phrase it, because it was just, you know, what, if I'm going to be the head coach at Winthrop for the best rest of my life, that might be the case, but like, I'm going to be present every single second. I'm going to pour my heart and soul into being where my feet are planted, be the best coach in the Big South that I could possibly be. And when I did that, and I stopped looking right and I stopped looking left, sure enough, I was the best version of myself I'd ever been, and we had more success than we'd ever been. And you know, because I just kind of trusted the process and tried to have excellence and being present a great opportunity presented itself at the College of Charleston. To be honest with you, I learned my lesson early on at Winthrop, and every single second I cherished being the head coach at the College of Charleston. It was a great place, and it was a great city. I was taken care of, I was well compensated, and I just poured my heart and soul into being present, being the best I could be right there. And then, lo and behold, you know, a too good to be true opportunity opened up, and I got a call from Josh. Heard we had several conversations. He was talking to a lot of other coaches as well, and did his due diligence and was very thorough in his search. In about five, six days after that initial phone call, I heard the words that I'll never, ever, ever forget, and he said, Pat, I want to offer you the head coaching job at the University of Louisville, and I really think I owe it all back to just trying to be great where I was and crushing it where I'm at. That old advice, skip Prosser gave it to me, and it worked out. I

David Novak 23:25

got to ask you this, because the thing that struck me so much about you when I first met you was your contagious enthusiasm. And then, you know, being from Louisville and just seeing how people were feeling about the basketball problem, even though there was tremendous, tremendous, you know, passion for the past and and tremendous, you know, belief in what Louisville could be. I I've never seen the morale of the fan base down more than what it was. I mean, people were basically in the dumps because they just weren't used to seeing Louisville suck, for that matter. I mean, it's just bad, okay, how much do you think your personality of contagious enthusiasm, you know? How much did that lead to you getting that call to take on the job? I mean, you obviously had a great track record. I mean, you took College of Charleston to the NCAA, plus you had a 31 win season. But you know, if you had to pick one thing, one reason why you got the job, what would it be? I think

Pat Kelsey 24:27

you'd probably have to ask Josh that for sure. I feel like there was probably a component in, probably a piece of Josh that valued that as an asset with me. You know, look, you can have the most energy in the world and tell the best jokes and do back flips and make coffee nervous like I do, but if you can't coach and you can't win, that's gonna wear out really, really quick, absolutely, you know. So I think obviously, first and foremost, he he knew the stature that he knows the stature of this program, and he. Was going to hire the best coach possible. And, you know, I think our track record speaks for itself, and the success that my staff has had over the years and the championships we've won and the cultures that we've built, I like to think we can put that up with anyone, but I do feel like you know Josh felt, and feels how you felt, like you guys are citizens of this great city. And there's been a little bit of a disconnect, or appalled kind of over the program the last couple years. And there's been many times, David, where people have kind of asked me to talk about that and kind of, but, you know, I tell them all the time, I'm only interested in the here and now and what we're doing moving forward, right? We're always going to pay homage to the great, great past of Louisville basketball. And listen, you know, Coach Payne was a part of the 1986 national championship team. And, you know, I've said this aloud like you know he's a Louisville Cardinal for the rest of his life, and he's always welcome back here, especially if I'm the head coach and under my watch. Sometimes things just don't work out, and unfortunately, the last couple years it didn't. But all I've tried to focus on is what we're doing moving forward. My first thing, two things that I really focused on here on campus with our players, is building our roster very quickly. And then once we built our roster, building and cultivating, sustaining and growing our culture every single day. And then the other part of it is, kind of what you were saying is, is the minds and hearts piece winning the minds and hearts of the people of Louisville and our fan base, and this, you know, the students of this great institution. And you know what I tried to do is just get out there in front of as many people as I could. It was an exhausting first five or six months because there was a lot going on. But fortunately, one of the great gifts that the Lord gave me is an unlimited supply of energy. I tried to say no, as little as possible in terms of speaking engagements, appearances, anything that anytime I could get the opportunity to get in front of a group of people and let them feel my passion, and let them feel and hear and see. My vision for this, for this great program,

David Novak 27:26

you know, you basically had to build the team. The first part of your turnaround process was to build this team from scratch. And you know, once, once you built this team, how did you lay out the challenge that that they, as a group, had had in front of them?

Pat Kelsey 27:40

Yeah. So the first thing that we did, David, is when they all walked in on June 5, and they all met each other for the first time, because that's the team. The day the team was all together, is we put them in a room in and we did a, we did this really cool PowerPoint presentation where I went kind of A to Z what Louisville basketball is about, right? I got this idea from the head coach of the United States Naval Academy named Ed de chellis, and who's a long time college basketball coach and a great leader, a man at one of the great leadership institutions in the history of the world. And he gave me this idea called the shield, and he has his players at the Naval Academy throughout the course of the year present their shield and what the shield is. And the fable, or the way the story goes, that back in ancient times, whether this is true or not, I don't know. Civilizations, when these countries would go to war, they'd the warriors would have the shields, right? And so they have their weapon, and they have their shields, and on their shield they would like it'd be broken up into eight or nine different segments, and on each of the segment, it would have kind of a description of them, of what makes that warrior who he is, and if they would lose their life in the field of battle when they found the shield, they would know who it is from kind of the breakdown of the shield. So we would have all of our guys go up to the front of the room, and I had our first four guys, and I hand picked them, went up, and they presented their shield. So we have this huge piece of paper in the shape of a shield, and it's broken up into like 10 spots, and it has, you know, your history, so you have to say where you're from, your family, who's your hero, who's What's the biggest triumph that you ever had, what's the biggest tragedy that you've ever dealt with? What are three things that you can bring to the table for this team every single day, what's your biggest weakness, what's your biggest strength? And they get up here and they basically tell their life story in front of a bunch of strangers, and it never fails when they start getting to the part of their life, when they talk about their hero, whether. It's their mom, their dad, their grandma, their grandpa, their brother, whoever it is, or they talk about the biggest tragedy that they ever experience, they get emotional. And guys break down in tears. And, you know, here's a group of kids that are 1920, 2122 23 years old, where, you know, and I say it all the time, teenagers, many times, are too cool. They're too cool. And here's a bunch of kids that their generation supposed to be too cool, and they're standing up in front of their teammates, breaking down crying, and, you know, getting to know each other at an intimate level right away. And then we introduce our culture 25 strong. That's all 25 constituents in our organization, owning their 20 square feet and doing their job. Whether you're the student manager and you're doing laundry the head coach, or you're the scout team or the starting point guard, it's doing your job with excellence every single day. And nobody's job is more or less important than anybody else. And unveiling the three tenets of our culture, relentless effort, competitive excellence and the power of the unit. And the power of the unit is based on the most powerful force in the universe, and that's love. And we ask 18 kids that never met each other to tell their teammates that they love them on day one, sacrificing for them every single day, giving of themself for the good of the team, not being about statistics, being about winning, and that that's, that's how it started, and it signed

David Novak 31:32

me up, coach, I'm ready to go. I'm in. I'm with you all the way. You know, I can't shoot, I can't run, but maybe I could be the manager,

Pat Kelsey 31:43

you know, hey, there's a role for everybody.

David Novak 31:44

And guess what else I do? I crush it. I would crush the job I had. I promise you. Love it. I love it now. So, so you get this team, you start building the culture you had to bring in all these talented people. And one of the things that was interesting to me when you were bringing in all these players, you know, when you, when you talk about them, you make them all sound like they're all Americans, or that they're the greatest people I've ever you know you could have possibly had. And I was thinking, Gosh, aren't you putting a hell of a lot of pressure on you? And I mean, I It's you'd think you're going to go undefeated. You know? You know when you when, just the way, how you talked about your team, you know, What's your thinking on here you are. You're off to a heck of a good start. You've beat Indiana, which is top ranked team. You almost beat Kentucky, you know, another great team. You know you're, you know, you're six and five, you know. But how do you, how did you really get the confidence to build this team up before they, they, they'd made a

Pat Kelsey 32:39

shot. Maybe I shouldn't have gone, you know, that far with, with how, you know, with describing the guys on day one, but I really believe in it. I believe we put together one heck of a team, and, you know, we went down to the Bahamas and played in a presea or a pre season event this summer, and played really well. And there was a lot of momentum and a lot of talk in the fan base, and people were excited. And then we had two exhibitions. Played really well, played more ahead, beat them by like a million. And then we played Tennessee, and as you know, they've I think they were like, 15th or 16th at a time. I walked out of that game going, there ain't no way there's 15 better teams in the country, in that team. Well, now they're number one in the country, and we had our full team. Were fully healthy. Corin hadn't been out for the year with the shoulder yet. Cason hadn't tore his knee up yet, so he was still playing. Kadir hadn't broken his arm. So we were we had our full team, and I don't want to say we were high in the hog reading our press clippings in any way shape or form, but we got humbled that first game against Tennessee. They absolutely positively punched us in the mouth, figuratively and literally, not saying they're dirty or anything like that, but they are one of the toughest teams that you're going to play in college basketball, and they literally punch us in the mouth, and it was eye opening. And it was one of the best things that could happen for this team, because we needed to get exposed on some things, like when I explore, when I when I said all those things about our team in the preseason. I believed it. I believe that we can be a like an excellent team. And that was eye opening. So we had a huge long break, David, between the Tennessee game and the next game that we played against, I think it was Bellarmine. So we had a week off, and all we're thinking about is this, like just butt kick in, and our guys worked their butts off, and we had some knockdown drag out practices, probably to knock down drag outs. We had a kid break his arm, but, but our guys got after it. We got better, and then we we beat Bellarmine, beat Winthrop, then we go down to the Bahamas, and we're rolling now. We had a couple guys go out right? We had corn Johnson hurt his shoulders. He was out for the year, so we're dealt a little bit of adversity. Kadir broke his arm. So our rotation got a little bit short. But you know, we go down the Bahamas and we kick butt man, we beat the heck out of Indiana. Played phenomenal, played West Virginia. Was a really, really good team. Beat them. Go to the finals of the battle Atlantis, which is one of the best events in college basketball. And with about a minute left in the first half, you know, arguably one of our best players, one of the most unique players in the country, a hybrid point center, whatever you want to call him, one of the best ball screen defenders in the country, shot block, tears up his knee. So you talk about, you know, this podcast is about leadership. And, you know, I want to say it's, gosh, who was it? Wrote the American crisis back in the back in the revolutionary door, Revolutionary War days. And he in his famous quote in, I think the essay was called the crisis. I won't say John Adams, maybe I'm thinking of somebody else. And they said, You cannot be a sunshine soldier in summer. Patriot, right? You can't be a sunshine soldier in summer. Patriot. You can't fight. Can't be a good time guy. And we were hit in the mouth with a bunch of adversity. We had three guys go out for the year, and, you know. And so it was really, really important with our guys, confidence stung a little bit. Our rotation was in disarray. We were playing seven guys, and we had to go back to the drawing board and rediscover who we are and who we're going to be and and that was really difficult. Came home and got our butts kicked by Ole Miss, right? And in, you know, Duke was coming to town their second, third in the country, and they're like Noah's Ark. They got two of everything, very, very, very talented. And our guys were worked their butt off in preparation, and gave those guys all they can handle. Came up a little short. You know, we played one of the toughest schedules in the country. We had UTEP in between. There's a very good mid major. Played him in a tough game, beat him, and then go down to Rupp Arena against against UK. You know, Kadir is not back yet with his broken arm, so we're still in like a seven man rotation, and our guys lay it all on the line. Play as hard as they can. There are no moral victories. I'm not asking anybody to feel sorry for us, because, you know, I tell our guys all the time, half the world could care less about your problems than the other half are glad you have

David Novak 37:32

them. How would you pat what's going to be a successful year for you? Dale? I mean, you know, you had a tough schedule. You're faring, I would say, damn well in this, this, this, this environment, what, how do you define success for your your your players?

Pat Kelsey 37:48

Well, that's a great question. And my the goal for our season never, ever, ever changes and never buries, ever, ever. And I got this from Jay Wright, who I think is one of the great college basketball coaches in the history of the game. He's a Hall of Famer. He's won multiple national championships. Class personified. And I've met him a couple times. I wouldn't say I know him well, but I've read some of his books and listened to all his podcasts. And he said this after the national championship, after they won their second national championship, and they said, Coach, what's your goal? What's a successful season for you? Is it to win a national championship again? And he said this, and I will take this to every team I coach and every organization I lead for the rest of my life. He said, our goal is to have the number one culture in the country. If we have the number one culture in the country, the results will take care of themselves. Championships will happen and and that's hard to do. First of all, there's no scoreboard that says whose culture is number one, whose culture is number two. But to have the number one culture in country, you have to be unified. You have to be locked in. You have to have people that are committed to the cause. They're committed to their role. People that bring it every single day. You have to be in that 1% is what I tell our guys. There's 370 teams in the country. 1% of that 370 is four, four teams. Now, does that mean you're gonna get to the Final Four every year? No. But like, man, you can't have dips, you can't have BCD, which is to blame, complain, defend, you got to be at your best and hunt excellence every single day. And that's the goal. We'll

David Novak 39:30

be back with the rest of my conversation with Pat Kelsey in just a moment. But speaking of basketball, I had the opportunity not too long ago to sit down with Golden State Warriors head coach, Steve Kerr, I loved hearing how he builds a confident mindset in his players, and I think it's an insight every leader can apply. We try to help our players number one with their confidence by showing them a lot of clips of their best moments, reminding. Them, hey, like, don't forget, you can do this. Look at yourself in this game last week, you made this shot and that shot. Keep shooting. Make sure you're doing this. Make sure you're doing that. But number two, we've got to be able to offer them professional help. You know, here with the warriors, and I think most teams around the league, we have a mindfulness trainer. We have somebody who will lead our players through meditative work, through visualization, sometimes as a group, sometimes individually, but we've got to be able to help our players, because this is all kind of normal stuff. This is human stuff, and it just happens. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Steve, Episode 62 here on how leaders lead. You know, I've studied all the great companies in the world, and when I go visit with them, talk to their leaders, the number one thing that drives dynasty, like performance, which is what we were going for, was that they, they all talked about creating a culture where, where everyone counts. Now, you're, you're doing that, you're, you're that you making that your number one goal, and here you are in this environment now where, every year your team can change out. I mean, you know, with, you know, with the transfer portal in i L, I mean, it's a whole new ball game. And you talk about this thing that you called the advantage of choice. You know, the advantage

Pat Kelsey 41:21

of no choice. I'm sorry, the advantage of no choice, yeah, I say that sometimes, like the, you know, it's, what do they say? That's the old story about, you know, burning the boats. You show up, you know, the group of warriors come over on the island of to fight the war, and in the general burns the boats. There's, there's no form or retreat. It's like, either you win or you die, right? You know? And I just think having that all in mentality is so important. And you're right, David, that's such a great point, because college basketball, college football, college sports, in today's day and age, it's, it's, it's so transient, right? I mean, players come and players go, but that doesn't mean in any way, shape or form, for one second or one iota that we equivocate on the standards of our culture. You know, we have some grad transfers. We have some last year transfers that are playing their last year in college basketball that have come into this Louisville basketball program for one season. But I let those guys know from day one, you are a Louisville Cardinal and you're a Louisville Cardinal forever. Forever. It's not, hey, you're coming in as a one year rental like no. You're part of this family, you're part of this culture. You're part of this great, great, great fraternity of coaches and players that have made Louisville basketball be something special. That was a big part of that first meeting David, it was, you know, slide after slide, video after video, of telling the story of the mystique of Louisville basketball, the coaches and the players that have come before them and their job to leave their legacy and to pass the torch on to the next players that come on and leave the program better than you found it. So whether it's one year, whether it's four years, we ask our guys to be all in with everything they got every single day. How about

David Novak 43:16

you Pat? I mean, you got you get attached to the guy. These guys. They come in, you love on them. You, you know, loves a big part of your culture. Then they transfer out potentially, or they, you know, this whole industry has been totally disrupted. I mean, you know, how do you look at it yourself? Well,

Pat Kelsey 43:34

I'm a teacher, David, I'm a teacher, first and foremost. And the late, great skip Prosser used to quote Ralph Waldo Emerson, and he would say, this is a great way to describe a teacher's role. And a teacher is a leader, right? And he said, our chief want life is someone who can make us do what we can. Our chief want in life is someone who will make us do what we can. And while they're here, while they're under my charge, while I have the opportunity to be their teacher, it matters to me that I'm teaching life lessons that they can use. Moving forward. Really quick story, there's a young man that that that I'm probably as close with in any player I ever coached, and he was the first recruit I ever signed at Winthrop in 2012 when I became the head coach there, and it didn't work out. His name was Brandon Vega, and you can look him up. He's a motivational speaker. He's a published author. Now he's getting ready to get his PhD. He's from a really bad neighborhood in Miami. He had a tough upbringing, and it didn't work out. He tore his ACL his first week on campus, rehabbed his ACL, came back a year later, and a freshman beat him out, and he couldn't handle it, and he didn't have a great attitude, any, any, any had BCD he blamed, he complained, he was defensive, and he transferred and he left. But. And one of the most prized possessions that I've ever that I have as a teacher and as a coach is a five page handwritten letter from Brandon Vega that I received four years after he left. And he talked about the life lessons that he learned, and he looked at he he told me, you know, a lot of the tough love that that that he was exposed to and that he had while he was with me, is paying, you know, is, is is paying dividends in his life as he moves forward. He came down and visited me last week and came to one of our games, uh, met his son and to see the type of person that he's become, man that fills my heart, and I only coached him for a year and a half. So whether I have a four year relationship with a player while I'm his coach and he's the player, or whether it's a nine month relationship like I'll have with Javon Hadley or Chuckie Hepburn or whoever it is, I believe that that the time that they spend with me can be important, effective as they move forward in their life. I tell my players I love them, and I do love them. It is tough love at times, but I believe moving forward, they'll be better because they played in our program, fantastic.

David Novak 46:10

And you know, I've heard you describe yourself as a CRO the chief reminder officer, explain what you mean by that.

Pat Kelsey 46:19

I have to point to the passer. That's a basketball term when somebody gives you an assist. A former player of mine at Wake Forest, who I'm very close with, a guy named John buck, who's now the head coach at Long Island Lutheran, arguably the top high school basketball program in the United States of America, and he's also the headmaster of the school. And Long Island Lutheran is an unbelievably prestigious academic institution as well, and I stole this from him. He told his teachers in a faculty meeting at the beginning of the year a couple years ago, he said, My job is not to be the CEO, it's the CRO and that's to Chief reminder officer, to remind everybody of our standard every single day. It's my job to remind everybody our players and our coaches the standard of excellence that we have to strive for in what we do every day, whether that's in coaching our guys, mentoring our guys, whether that's in recruiting, whether that's in cultivating relationships in the community, whether it's in promoting our program, it's, it's, it's the standard, is the standards the Pittsburgh Steelers like to say, and I kind of throw it when I say that, because I don't like the Pittsburgh Steelers. And

David Novak 47:34

not, not being from Cincinnati, I guarantee you that. You know, this has been so much fun. Pat, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? Sure. Okay, what three? What three words best describe you?

Pat Kelsey 47:47

Energy, passion. I'd be lying if I said handsome, because I'm sure not that energy, passion and faith. My faith, my here's the three things that I say all the time, my faith, my family and my vocation. That's coaching, my faith, my family, my vocation.

David Novak 48:05

If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Joe

Pat Kelsey 48:09

burrow, quarterback of the Cincinnati Bengals. Be pretty cool.

David Novak 48:15

What's your biggest pet peeve? My

Pat Kelsey 48:16

biggest pet peeve by a blowout, that's not even close is when people talk behind people's back. I hate that. My staff knows that. Don't, don't. If I hear somebody gossiping and talking about somebody behind their back, you know that person's talking about you at some point. So that, without question, not talk about people

David Novak 48:38

who would play you in a movie, I

Pat Kelsey 48:40

get the wahlbergs a lot. One of the wahlbergs, Donnie. I think it's Donnie. I wish it was Marky. Mark because Mark Wahlberg, because I like his song. Maybe

David Novak 48:51

your biceps are like his. Who knows? You know, what's the biggest surprise since being the head coach at Louisville? Anything you didn't expect?

Pat Kelsey 49:00

Well, I think I thought I was ready, but it took some getting used to the notoriety the you know, just people know who you are.

David Novak 49:11

Who has more passion and energy on the sidelines? You are DAN HURLEY, oh

Pat Kelsey 49:17

my gosh. We both have pretty much energy. When you win two national championships, you can yell at officials as much as he does. I gotta win a few of those before I can go at those guys as much as he did. Hey, but I'll say this about Coach Hurley. He's a fellow Bengals fan. First of all, he's a savant. Now, like, holy cow, is he an unbelievable coach. His dad is a legend, but every time I see him. We don't even know each other that well, but we both know we're bangles fans. So he just says, Who did we just walk past each other and say, Who day? It's hilarious.

David Novak 49:47

What's the one thing that you do just for you? I

Pat Kelsey 49:51

mean, I like to work out. I like to I like to talk to the Lord every day and pray. I mean, if I was just saying just for me, I would say the. Those two things,

David Novak 50:00

all right, your most prized possession, my children and my wife. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Man,

Pat Kelsey 50:10

I'm versatile. Now. I listen to rap, I listen to country, I listen to hip hop, I listen to some Neil Diamond. I go, I'm everywhere. What's

David Novak 50:22

something about you that few people would know? I'm an amateur artist, and what's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss,

Pat Kelsey 50:29

telling telling my kids, my wife, I love them, the best

David Novak 50:32

shot, the most important shot you ever made in your career, I

Pat Kelsey 50:36

would say probably the two free throws I made to in the state tournament my senior year to advance to the to advance in the state tournament. That's

David Novak 50:48

okay with you. Know, that's the end of the lightning round. Good job. And I want to talk a little bit about your family. I've heard you say that the greatest role in duty you have in your life is being a dad to your three kids. You constantly talk about your your wife. Give me an example of how you filter decisions and and your time with with that in mind.

Pat Kelsey 51:12

Well, I want to share this real quick, because I got great, great advice a couple years ago. There's a businessman in Cincinnati named Joe Sunderman, who you would love, by the way, David, he's absolutely, positively brilliant. And you think I have energy, you should meet this guy. But he's, he's my confidant. He's my agent. His grandfather passed away several years ago, and when he was on his deathbed, he was a great guy, great guy, great dad, great husband, very successful businessman and Joey. Joe was about ready to start having kids, and he asked his grandfather, he said, what's your advice for being a great father? And without missing a beat, he said, Love your wife. Love your wife. And I just thought that was that was really, really good advice. You know, balance is impossible in my role and in your role in if you're going to be a successful coach and businessman and professional true work life balance is not possible, but I think incorporating your personal life into your business life. I'm really lucky. Josh heard my athletic director allows my son to be around you'll see him on the bench. He leaves school, and he just loves to be in the gym. He loves to be around the players. He loves to help the managers do laundry shoots every day. So I mean that I don't even know he's here most of the time. He'll leave school and he'll come to the practice facility. He's just around so, you know, I just I try to be as present as possible. The best recruit I ever signs my wife. She holds it down at home. She does an unbelievable job. She hates the limelight. She hates the spotlight. On an interview the other day, I said something about my wife being hot, and she got so mad. She goes, Why would

David Novak 53:00

you well, it hit all of social media. She

Pat Kelsey 53:03

said, why? She goes, I'm just over here doing my thing, minding my own business, and you gotta, like, put me out there like that. So

David Novak 53:10

I asked our question. This all our guests, this, this same question at the end of every, every episode and and I, I'm about to ask it to you, but here's the thing, okay? I want you to answer, like all of our listeners that are listening to this are, are your team? Okay? And this is one of your passionate pre game speeches. So here we go. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader. Get me fired up on that coach.

Pat Kelsey 53:45

You know, I mean, what I would what I would tell our guys is, is, is, before a game, I say, fellas, what do we hang our hat on? What? What's the explain to me, give me the first part of our cultural blueprint. And they would say, and I, look at Chuckie Hepburn, I'd say, What's number one? And without missing a beat, he would say, relentless effort. And I said, What does relentless effort mean? He goes going as hard as you can every time. And I'd say, Chuckie, what do we achieve by that? He'd say, we're tougher than any situation or any opponent will face relentless effort. And then I'll say, Okay, two. And I'll say, Javon Hadley, what's two? And he'll say, competitive excellence. And I'll say, what is that? He said, do what you do with excellence every rep. And I'll say, what do we achieve by that? And he said, you're ready when the stakes are high. You're ready when there's 22,000 people at Rupp you don't have to rise to the occasion you simply have to resort to your training because your training is elite. And I'd say, exactly right, you're ready for this moment. And then I say three. And I'd look at James Scott, and I say, James, what's three? Because they know this. They know this. It is. It runs through the veins, and it's in the DNA of. Our program, and he would say, power the unit. And I said, What's the power of the unit? He'd say, that's the uncommon commitment to the guy next to you. And I'd say, James, what's that based on? He'd say, the most powerful force in the universe, that's love, love your teammates. I said, fellas, all you got to do today is be us. Every single day. Our culture prepares you for this game when that ball goes up at 515 because you give relentless effort with everything you do, you have competitive excellence in every reps a game, rep, and you love each other. You sacrifice for each other. Now just go earn it. Let's go get a big win today, boys, let's go.

David Novak 55:37

Hey, let me tell you, fired up. I'm ready. I am ready that I knew that would be fun. And it was not only fun, it was inspirational. And there's a lot of leadership wisdom in those three things. There's no question about it. And Pat when I met you, I knew Louisville had its man. You know you you are gonna this program is gonna win national championships. You are going to bring it back big time, and the sky's the limit for you. And I want to thank you so much.

Pat Kelsey 56:07

I'm humbled to be asked to be on this and I'm I feel, I feel really dumb and really bad, because here you are asking me questions, and I'm like saying all these things about leadership, you forgot more about leadership than I even know. So your career is legendary. You're an institution in this town, and the relationship that I built with you and the friendship we have means a lot to me, and I look forward to learning more from you. As we move forward absolutely

David Novak 56:35

together, we'll learn a lot together. So thank you very much. That's great. You. Pat. Now look, if you're the kind of person who listens to this show, I know you've got big ambitions, but sometimes if you start looking a little too far ahead in your career, you drop the ball on what you're doing. Now I hope this conversation with Pat reminds you to stay present and committed to excellence in whatever role you're in, even if it's not your dream job. Do that, and I'm telling you, the next level of success will take care of itself. This year, I want you to pause and ask yourself, Am I getting 100% in my current role, if not, what's one thing you can do differently, starting today. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders crush it where they're at. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Louise Brady, managing partner and co founder at Piedmont Capital Partners.

Louise Brady 57:39

It's all about relationships. I think in life, if you give more than you take, it'll come back to you in spades. That pays dividends, because, of course, when people treat you that way, you're more apt to work hard for them.

David Novak 57:52

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business, so that you will become the best leader that you can be. You

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