Harris Barton 0:00 

You don't have all the answers. I promise you don't have all this, but there's somebody out there that has a bunch of the answers, and you should start listening.

David Novak 0:14 

Well, everybody, the Super Bowl is this week, and my guest today is going to take you inside the huddle of Super Bowl 23 where the 40 Niners are down by three points with three minutes to go, and they're about to drive 92 yards down the field to win it all. And you won't believe what they talk about. My guest today is Harris Barton, the founder and managing director of H Barton Asset Management. He was an all pro left tackle on the offense for the 40 Niners, winning three Super Bowls with Joe Montana, Jerry Rice and Steve Young. Today, he runs a thriving investment fund where he has about a billion dollars of assets under management. HARRIS is a textbook definition of what I call an active learner with any person, any situation, any opportunity in his life, Harris is listening for the lesson in it. In this conversation, he's sharing those lessons with you, and he's going to remind you that the answers you need are probably already around you. It's just a question of whether you're listening for them. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Harris. Barton, Harris, it's great to have you on the show.

Harris Barton 1:36 

Well, it's been a long time. I mean, I've been I've been asking to get on this show forever, and you never let me on. So now here I am.

David Novak 1:43 

You know that's not true. I've been trying to get your butt on this show for a long time. I know you sure it is Super Bowl week, and you won three Super Bowls with the The one meant the most you and why?

Harris Barton 2:00 

Well, she's first off. I didn't win three Super Bowls. Joe Montana and Steve Young won three Super Bowls. I just happened to be on the team. But to answer your question, obviously the first one is to me the most. That was one that really inspired me the most. And it really once you win the Super Bowl, gets a taste in your mouth, and you got to get back to that thing. I mean, I Tom Brady, you know, it's just you spend your whole career trying to get to a Super Bowl, then trying to win it, and then the rest of your career, you try and say, Hey, I got to do that again, because it's kind of like a bad drug, you know, you got to have it. And so winning the first Super Bowl against Cincinnati in 1988 was a thrill. Both my parents were there. My whole family was there, you know, my high school coaches were there. I mean, it's just an inspiring moment. And we won it last second. John Taylor caught up touchdown pass from Montana. We won it with 23 seconds ago on the clock. And there we were. It's Super Bowl champion. And you know,

David Novak 2:55 

when you think about it, you know you think about Patrick mahomes Now, you know he's getting ready for that, potentially winning three in a row. What do you think about that Harris, how much pressure does the Chiefs have on them?

Harris Barton 3:07 

Well, I think the Chiefs don't have as much pressure as we did back back in the day, when we were trying to win three in a row. I just remember that last year was just incredibly you know, just, it was just crazy because, you know, trying to win at three in a row had never been done before. It still hasn't been done, and now the Chiefs got a chance to do it. I think they've had a tough season, just because they've won a lot of close games. So there's been a lot of ups and downs. So that for that team, I think they're ready. I think they'll beat, you know, Philadelphia. I just think mahomes is ready. I think the team is geared toward this. And, you know, I don't like the Kansas City Chiefs. I'd rather the Eagles win.

David Novak 3:49 

What's the preparation like for a Super Bowl? And how did you have you brought in that brought that kind of learning and preparation to your business? Well,

Harris Barton 3:58 

you know, the preparation really starts all year. And obviously teams that have great success have great leaders, and those great leaders do the same thing business leaders do. They they work harder than everybody else. And so when, when you could walk into a 49 or locker room back in the 80s and 90s and see guys like Jerry Rice and guys like Joe Montana, guys like Steve Young and Ronnie Lott getting there early, watching extra film, running extra sprints, lifting weights after practice. You know what? As a rookie, you come in, you say, Well, gosh, if we're going to win, if I'm going to win a Super Bowl, I've got to work harder than those guys. And that really perpetuates the team, how the team operates. And so, you know, leaders lead, right? And that's the same thing in business, right? If I'm working for a car dealership and I'm watching my boss and he's not coming to work on time and he's not selling cars like he should be, and hey, I'm gonna love also, but if, but if he's out there working hard and making extra phone calls and doing all the things that lead organizations, then I'm then I'm gonna try and follow and so that's, that's kind of how I. Taken my football, you know, career, and moved it into the business careers, just really trying to find great leaders, trying to follow what they do, and trying to mimic their behavior on the business side, yeah, that

David Novak 5:10 

makes so much sense. And you know, one of the things that you said earlier that really hit me was that, you know, once you get one win, you want that next win. And you know, it's kind of intoxicating. The same is true in business, right?

Harris Barton 5:22 

It's so true. It's so true. You know, when I walk into, you know, into into young companies, I tell them the same story. I say, Listen, you know, this is how it happens in football. In August, you sit in a room with 100 guys, and Bill Walsh, the coach, or the head coach of the 40 Niners, would stand up and say, Hey, listen, the 56 guys are going to make this team, and our only goal is to win the Super Bowl. Anything other than that is a failure, and along the way, you know, guys are going to lose their job, somebody's going to get divorced, somebody's going to lose a sale. You're we're going to we're going to miss code on a certain project, but hey, our goal is to win the Super Bowl, and that means, you know, kind of an IPO right on the business side. So there's a lot of parallels to it. And again, once you get into a Super Bowl, you want to have it again and again. It's the same thing on businesses. Once you have great success in business, you want to keep doing it. You want to, you know, you want to start a new company. You want to, you know, sell your company. You want to make all the people around you, you know, happy and wealthy. And it's there's, they're similar, both pro football and in business. Harris,

David Novak 6:29 

how much do you miss this week itself, when it's Super Bowl week? I mean, what does it bring back the glory days? Or how do you feel about it? No,

Harris Barton 6:39 

you know what? I just feel blessed that I played in three Super Bowls, and I had great quarterbacks and great people around me, great coaches. And you know what? This week makes me so nervous because I'm just glad I'm not out there, because to lose the Super Bowl would be devastating, and I never had a chance to do that, luckily, and I'm just thankful that I had three it is a such a nerve wracking thing. Now it was nerve wracking when I played, but now 30 years later, it's, it's everywhere, right? And if you go out there and you have a bad game, or you, you know, drop a ball, or you fumble, I mean, it carries on with you for the rest of your career. And you know what? It's a shame, actually, but that's just the way it is. That's the way the media is. And so I dread that, and I'm glad I'm not having to do that this weekend.

David Novak 7:27 

I want to take you back to your favorite Super Bowl. You know, Super Bowl 23 you're down by three to the Bengals with three and a half minutes left in the game, but the ball's in the hands of the great Joe Montana and your offense, you know, take me inside the huddle.

Harris Barton 7:41 

Well, what had happened? We were we were heavily favored, favored against the Bengals, and all of a sudden, with two minutes ago in the game, they're up by three points, right? They kicked the field goal and went by three we had a guy that they took the opening kickoff, and he took it, he caught it seven yards deep in the end zone, and he comes running out of the end zone and he gets tackled on the seven yard line. So now we the offense comes running out on the field in Montana's the quarterback, and it's a long TV time out, and I'm standing in the huddle and I am yelling. I am screaming at the huddle. It's my second year in the league. I'm a young player, and I'm like, What in the hell? What's he doing? Why did he, you know, why didn't he just take a knee and we get the ball in the 20 we got to go 93 yards for a touchdown here, and I'm yelling and screaming and I'm distracting everybody. And all of a sudden, Montana comes in the huddle, and he looks at me, goes, Hey, H I go, what? And he goes, Hey, look down there in the other end zone. I go, okay. And I go, what? He goes, there's John Candy. And sure enough, everybody in the huddle, Jerry Rice, John fry, Tom Rathman all turned around, and there's John Candy down there eating popcorn in the end. So he's actually standing next to Ahmad Rashad. And then all of a sudden, you know, we all look around, and that is John Candy. And then all of a sudden, the referee blows the whistle, and off the work we go. And, you know, on reflection of that, Joe realized that, hey, I was a distraction, you know, I was being a distraction to huddle. We had biggest drive of our lives coming up, and I was distracting everybody, and he wanted to shut me up, right? So that's what he did. And that's just, that's a great leader, you know. I mean, that was an amazing, that was an amazing drive that we had. But it all started with his leadership and the way, you know, the way he, he was carrying himself. So, you know, it was, it was, that was my favorite moment, Super Bowl.

David Novak 9:23 

Did you always, did you always look at the celebrities yourself? But what was it that made him say, hey, go check out, Kenny.

Harris Barton 9:31 

I like people. Oh, the people follower. And I knew that, you know, the Super Bowl is the biggest back then, and and is now, is the biggest stage in the world. And everybody wants to come out and, you know, and see the Super Bowl. And there, there was one of my favorite actors, is John Kennedy, you know, I

David Novak 9:45 

never really liked the San Francisco 40 Niners. I hate to admit this, but, you know, I was a Kansas City Chiefs fan, so I never really liked Joe Montana until he came to Kansas City and did great things at Kansas City, you know what? What would be the, you know, top one. Or two leadership lessons you picked up just watching him in action. I again,

Harris Barton 10:03 

I think the guy, the guy was amazing. One of the leadership actions that he always had, no he was a super he was a, he was a big superstar before even I got there. I got there in 1987 he had one he had won a couple of Super Bowls before that. You know, in 81 and 84 with the 40 Niners. And he was a legend, you know, in the sporting world. But you know what, you come in and you and you go with Joe, and you know what? He was always the first one at the facility, always okay watching film. He'd had the game plan Xerox home to him, you know, or fax home to him. When they had fax machines back in the day. He'd studied that game plan. He'd show up early on Monday morning getting ready for the next game. And the thing I also think about Joe was Joe was always the guy that you know, what, if they were serving a buffet line for lunch or buffet line for dinner, Joe was always the last guy in line. He wasn't the first guy in line. He was always the last guy. He never, you know. He was always, you know, took the worst seat on the bus, always, you know, always, you know, made sure that everybody else was taken care of. He, you know, he had dinners for teammates. He led like that. He was a humble type of leader. You know, he led. He led from behind. Which is, which was? The thing I learned from Joe is that, you know, your actions speak louder than your words do, and his actions were certainly leadership. And

David Novak 11:19 

you also played alongside Jerry Rice, arguably the best receiver of all time. What did you pick up watching him in action? Well, Jerry

Harris Barton 11:27 

Rice was a guy that he played with a big chip on his shoulder. Jerry, you know, he came from a small school in Mississippi. He really was never given anything his whole life. And He came in and he wanted, he was determined to be the best. And Jerry, again, was was non stop and catching footballs. I mean, he was amazing work addict. I mean, he'd sprint in the off seasons. He'd catch balls in the off season. You know, he'd when, when Steve Young became the quarterback of the 40 Niners Jerry was. Got so Steve Young got so tired of throwing left handed to Jerry that they recruited a guy by the name of Ted Walsh, who was our left handed equipment. Manager. And Ted would stay out there for hours and hours throwing balls to Jerry Rice left handed just so Jerry could adjust to see how the spin was coming off a left hander versus a right hander who he'd with, had been with for Joe, with Joe Montana for so long. So Jerry was just a work addict. And you know what? He was quiet in the huddle. He was, he was, he was a hard worker. I mean, he was an unbelievable blocker downfield. He was so unselfish. I mean, he was just, he was just a he was a pleasure to he was a pleasure to work with for all those years. So it's

David Novak 12:32 

pretty clear that the best players, they really set the tone in terms of their overall work ethic, right? And you know that that had to be something was huge. But they also seem to play with great character, you know, you know, talk about the character, part of what makes up the great leader. Well, again,

Harris Barton 12:49 

going back to Montana, right? So I played a little bit of center in college. I played a little center in the pros. And typically, you see, you know, a young center comes out there in a bad snap would happen in a game. And always, always, Joe would come to the sideline after a bad snap and he'd go, that was my fault, you know, I take ownership of that. It wasn't, it wasn't Harris' fault, it was my fault, or wasn't Randy Cross' fault. It was a sinner. It was my fault. And so anytime he threw an interception, it was his fault, you know, he thought this. He saw the safety doing the wrong thing. He never, ever, you know, got in somebody's face and said, hey, you know what? That's your fault. You should take the blame for that. So that's, that's, you know, that's the type of leadership that that teams need to be successful. And a guy like mahomes shows that, right? We got, like Tom Brady shows that, you know, they, they always, they're out working everybody. They're, they're out hustling everybody, but they're also being humble, and they're being, you know, they're, they're taking the blame when things when things go wrong.

Koula Callahan 13:47 

Hey, everyone, it's cool. We'll get back to the interview in just a second before we do though, I have a question for you. Have you downloaded the how leaders lead app on your iPhone? If you haven't take 20 seconds right now. Go to the App Store, search for how leaders lead and download the how leaders lead app. In the app every day, you'll get a two minute video that'll give you a leadership insight from one of our amazing guests from our podcast to inspire you and to really get your mind in the right place before you start your work day. So go to the App Store, search how leaders lead, download the how leaders lead app, and start your day, every day, with two minutes of leadership wisdom. It'll take 20 seconds go to the App Store, download the app, and you'll be able to watch every day, just like me, the leadership insight from how leaders lead.

David Novak 14:34 

So you know now, you know you found Barton asset management, and you have to create your own work environment, your own culture, for your people. Have you articulated what you think is most important to your team and built that into how you grow the business? Well,

Harris Barton 14:50 

you know, my business is a little bit different. You know, again, a lot of things you learn in football, you take the business. World, and certainly in football, you fall down a lot, and, you know, somebody's going to run over you, you're going to you're going to get beat. And same thing happens in business. And the first, you know, four or five years of my business were going great. They were growing great. In the end, I got out of football in 1999 and started a business along with with Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott. And hey, things were going great. But then when things started, when we started hiring a bunch of people, you know, I probably wasn't doing the right thing and wasn't hiring the right type of people, and things started going poorly. And then in 2008 things, when the financial crisis happened, a lot of things happened poorly and and really kind of lost the business, to be honest with you. So when I started again in 2011 with this new book, Harris Barton, asset management, I was determined to do a little bit differently. Number one, I was going to, I was going to not hire a lot of people. I was going to, it was all on my back. So I was going to try and do it by myself. And I was going to try and, you know, and do things correctly this time. And so I started the business by, you know, going out to a lot of individuals who had been super helpful to me during the course of my football career and course of my business career, and asked them advice, you know, how should I do it this time? You know, I made these little mistakes I made last time, and how should I do it this time? And I went to, I went to quality people, quality people in the Bay Area, quality people in New York that, you know, that understand asset management businesses, and ask them the questions and, and that's kind of how I that's kind of what I took from football, right? Because, you know, in football, you got to watch what, what, what works for, for other people. So I was always studying what right tackles did a lot around the league. You know, I'd watch the great right tackles at Pittsburgh. I watched the great right tackles for the Rams. I'd watch the great right tackles for the chiefs and see how they how they played, and try to emulate the way that they played. The same thing I did when I started my second business. Hey, how does George Roberts do it at KKR, you know? How does Jimmy Dunn do it at Sandler O'Neill? How? You know? How does Stan Druckenmiller do it at Duquesne asset management business. How does a guy like Sam Reeves, you know, do it, you know, for so long, be such a such a great consultant for so long to so many business leaders. And I try to weave all that in together with a lot of the venture capital guys I knew out here, guys like Jeff Yang, guys like Doug McKenzie, guys like Jim Breyer, you know, guys like John Waleska, all these are good friends of mine, and I just tried to take all the lessons that they taught me and tried to weave it into a, into a, into a kind of, really a third career with Harrisburg and asset management. That's

David Novak 17:32 

great that you sought out the best practices and learned from the very best. And, you know, one of the things I've always admired you, about you, Harris is how grounded you are. And you know that comes from, you know, I'm sure, from your upbringing. Can you, can you share with us a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Harris Barton 17:51 

Yeah, well, you know, my dad was a he sold uniforms, ladies apparel in Atlanta, Georgia for a long time. And in my mother was from Atlanta, Georgia as well. And, you know, my dad always, would, you know, always had had great words of wisdom to say. But one of the things that always struck me was that one day he sat me down when I was probably about 17 or 18. He said, hey. He said, Harris, you know what? People pay me 1000s of dollars an hour for advice, and you're getting it for free, you better start listening. And so that kind of struck me. And so as I went through my whole career, when people were, you know, guys that were smart, people that I really respected, you got to sit down and listen. You got to listen to what they say, you know, because they're getting paid 1000s of dollars an hour, but you're getting it for free. And if you might not agree with everything they say, but you better listen. And so that's kind of the one business advice I try and tell young people is, Hey, you don't have all the answers. I promise you don't have all this, but there's somebody out there that has a bunch of the answers, and you should start listening. I understand.

David Novak 18:59 

Your dad wanted you to work for IBM coming out of college, you know, tell us that story.

Harris Barton 19:07 

Well, my dad wasn't, he wasn't a very big football fan. Actually, he was. He was a terrible football fan and and it was my high school coach that kind of got me into football. Guy. My name is Ken Pettis. He got me into football, and I got a scholarship to the University of North Carolina, and things were going great. Things were going great. And, you know, yeah, at the end of my high in my college career, I went to my dad and I said, Hey dad, you know I, you know the, I think I'm going to play in the NFL. And he said, he said, Harris, I don't want you to play in the NFL. I want you to, I want you to go to work for, for IBM. And I said, I said, Dad, the 40 Niners just drafted me in the first round. You know, of the 1987 draft, and they're going to pay me $500,000 a year to play football. And IBM is only gonna pay me 75,000 he goes, Well, I think you should go work for the 40 Niners. I. Yeah, without, without missing a beat there I was so, sure enough, I was out there. It was just my dad. He was, he was just a great lover of kids. You know? He just, he I had a brother and a sister, both live in Atlanta still, and we had, we had just a great upbringing. And you know what? He just, he want. He didn't want, he didn't coach us. He just wanted us to have a good time. And you know, again, another thing he told us about youth sports is he'd say that. He'd say, Harris, you know what? Don't ever complain about the coach. I don't care. You know you're seven years old. Don't complain about the coach. Because you know what? That coach is out there working for free. He's out there doing something I'm not so hey, you know what you got to complain. You keep it to yourself, because don't complain to me because he's doing something I'm not. So you got to respect that

David Novak 20:47 

I love that. I love that. So you go to UNC so I got to ask you, you know, if you could spend a day with Bill Belichick, what would you do to get that program to the next level? What advice would you give him? And how do you feel about Bill Belichick being at UNC Well,

Harris Barton 21:04 

you know, when they when they first started talking about Bill Belichick, I was like, There's no way he's going to do that. And sure enough, the university pulled us together. Now that I've looked at it now, it's been a couple of months now, I think it's brilliant. Now, I don't know, I know Bill. I played golf with Bill once. I don't know really. Well. I certainly played against some of his giant teams when he was, when he was coaching for the Giants, but what he's brought to the university in the in the three months has just been tremendous. I mean, every day you pick up the paper and they're talking about, hey, this coach is going to the Tar Heels. Hey, this player, you know, dropped his recruitment and he's going to go to the Tar Heels. Hey, this is what Bill Belichick is doing. You know, around town, it's just every day they're focusing in, and they haven't even had a practice yet. Now, I think the one thing Bill did great was that he brought Mike Lombardi. Right now, college football is changing, and if you don't think it is, you got your head in the hole. And Bill and Mike have understand that, hey, this is becoming a professional league, right? And eventually, all these teams are going to have to have a general manager, and they're going to have to have a head coach like Bill Belichick, and so they're the front runners of this. And so Bill came in and said, Hey, listen, I'm bringing Mike in. Mike's gonna do all the recruiting, he's gonna do all the portal, he's gonna do all the n, i l stuff, and I'm just gonna coach, you know, I don't need to talk to alumni now. I will talk to alumni, but I don't have to do that type of stuff. I just want to coach. And that's the way this is gonna work. And players are gonna come here, and the attitude that bill's brought in and say, Listen, these kids are gonna come here. They're gonna get ready for the NFL, and if they're not ready, they're not ready for the NFL, they're going to get a great education. And that's perfect, right? You know, not everybody's going to come here is going to play in the NFL, but they're, if they are good enough to play in the NFL, they'll be ready. And if they're not good enough to play in the NFL, hey, they're going to have a great they're going to have a great education, and they're going to go

David Novak 22:59 

on with their lives. You mentioned you were drafted out of North Carolina, and in my research, I learned that Ronnie Lott asked to have his locker right next years at training camp. You know, this is a incredible defensive player, you know, talk more about that. Well,

Harris Barton 23:17 

yeah, Ronnie, right. We used to practice up at Rockland, California, at a place called Sierra Junior College. And it was, it was a, it was a dump of a place to practice. But that was, that was preseason back then in the 80s, and Ronnie had been drafted in the first round, actually, one of the early picks in the 19, I think it was 1981 draft. And they went on to have a great success. And Ronnie was kind of a legend by the time I got there in 1987 and Ronnie, every year would always go back to his roots and say he'd tell the equipment manager, hey, I want to dress next to, you know, the number one pick that that's, you know, that's coming in this year. And so that happened to me, me in 1987 and so I showed up at Sierra College, and sure enough, I had my locker right next to Ronnie. And Ronnie sat me down the first day and said, Hey, listen, you know, I've been there. It's going to be ups and downs, it's going to be tough. And we struck up a friendship, and we went out to dinner. And you know what? We just became fast friends. And sure enough, you know, when my career ended, Ronnie was the first guy to kind of reach out to me and say, Hey, let's get a business started together. And so that just goes back from, like, 15 years of togetherness and bonded and in Ronnie's just a, just an amazing leader. And he was really the, he was the leader of those teams in the 80s and 90s. You know now, Joe was a great player, and Jerry was there. But when things needed to be led, it was Ronnie Lott that was leading that, and the team rallied around Ronnie like I did. You know, as a first round pick, you know, he was super unselfish, giving me his time. And you know, it was, it was amazingly valuable.

David Novak 24:54 

So you have this guy who's way up in his career, so established, and he wants to spend time with you. How. Is that, how is that carried what you do going forward with how you how you view others?

Harris Barton 25:06 

I just you know, Ronnie has taught me more about business, more about leadership, than anybody else. But the one thing Ronnie does, and a lot of people don't know, Ronnie has raised millions. I'm talking $50 million for charity. Ronnie is unselfish in that, I keep using that word unselfish, but that's what, that's what Ronnie is. You got a golf tournament, and you're trying to raise $15 to, you know, to go to some cause in North Carolina. Ronnie's gonna fly in to be at that golf tournament. You're gonna do a charity event in New York City, and you need Ronnie to come in and say five words. Ronnie is going to show up and do it now. And so he was so good. He actually helped me get started, help me. And Ronnie started a charity. And you know, 2025, years ago that Ronnie, that Ronnie started, and it's called champion charities. Ronnie is my partner in the business. And every year we go out, we buy out a theater in New York City, and we buy out a Theater in San Francisco, and we have a, we have a Broadway show at those performances, and we invite 2000 kids in New York and 2000 kids in San Francisco to come see a Broadway show, Hamilton, Lion King, Beauty and the Beast. Back to the Future, you name it, we've done it. And you know, our charity has raised about $20 million over the last 20 years, and that's all because of Ronnie. Ronnie Lott, that's that. It's all about how I learned that from Ronnie

David Novak 26:35 

Lott, that's fantastic. And you know, you played 12 years in the NFL. When during your playing career, did you start thinking about life after football?

Harris Barton 26:46 

1994 I'll never forget we had won the Super Bowl. We had a short off season, and I went upstairs to the San Francisco 40 Niners, and I stole stationary from the San Francisco 40 Niners. And you know, that was way before email and, you know, so I just in the stationary had, you know, five Super Bowl trophies on it, and it looked good and and I wrote a letter to, you know, five of the businesses that surrounded the 49 at practice field, guys like Cisco and Sun Microsystems and Yahoo and a couple of venture capitalists. I wrote a letter to guys like John Chambers. I wrote a letter to Doug McKenzie. He was at Kleiner Perkins at the time. I wrote a letter to Jerry Yang. I wrote a letter to Scott McNealy, who happened to be at Sun Microsystems. I said, Hey, listen, my day off is Tuesday, and you know, I'm, you know, three time Super Bowl champion over here at San Francisco 40 Niners. Just look at the logos on the on the paper. And I'd like to come in and, you know, I see you're building a big campus over here, down here in Santa Clara, I'd like to come in and meet with you. And sure enough, you know, they got the letter, and they say, Hey, here's a young kid trying to, trying to get ahead, and kind of get ahead and realize he can't play football for the rest of his life. Hey, I'll take a meeting with him. So I, I do a little bit of research on the company, and I'd go in. I'd bring my three Super Bowl rings. And, you know, they take pictures of the Super Bowl rings, and they put them all and they try them on. Their secretary would come in and she'd bring her kids, and you sign some autographs, and then all of a sudden they become your friends for life. And so when my career ended, I went back to those guys and said, Hey, listen, you know, I remember when I came into your into your office in 1994 and you told me, Hey, to give you a call when my career was over. My career is over. And so now they all looked at me and said, Well, you know what you've been You were great in the community. We like you a lot. Come on in, and let's, let's talk about a little bit, a little bit about business. And so that's kind of how I got started in the business world. And what I realized when starting in 1994 is I loved technology. I love, I love the venture capital business. I thought, I thought it was just a tremendous way to see everything, just to understand what was happening out there in the world. And you know what? I was an old football I was ex, you know, as an offensive lineman, you know. So I don't know about writing code or building clouds or but I do know about kind of how teamwork works. And so I go to all these I was so interested in technology, and so when my career ended, I went back to those guys, and they said, Hey, listen, you're fantastic in this business, and venture capital is the way you should go, not, you know, not because you're going to be a great investor, but because, you know, so many people and the venture capital community out here is impossible for anybody to get into. Nobody gets into the top funds out here, the sequoias, the gray locks, the Neas, the excels, the Kleiner Perkins and but if you can use your football and your relationships to kind of gain access to those guys, hey, that's a good business model. And so that's kind of how I got started in the asset management business. Was directly starting from those relationships I established in 1994 and

David Novak 29:51 

so you go out, you start this business. 2008 comes, you know, it goes in the tank, and then you have to rethink about where you want to go next, looking. Back to that first chapter of your post playing career. You know, you know, what do you think it was the, what was the single biggest thing you would do over,

Harris Barton 30:10 

oh, the seniors. Biggest thing I would do over, what was happening was, you know, we, we grew too fast. We're basically a fund of funds. And what a fund of funds is, for those viewers, those listeners that don't know is, you know, you just you allocate capital to a variety of different types of venture fund, to funds and and venture funds. So first off, nobody gets into these funds, like I said. And so if I had access to these funds, and what you do is you, you deploy some capital to Sequoia, you deploy some capital to to gray lock. He's deployed some capital to excel. Kleiner Perkins, same, same way. And hey, that that was great. We the first fund we raised was a $40 million fund we allocated off to these great managers. Things were going fantastic. And then all of a sudden, you know what? We decided, Hey, we got to get bigger. Let's, let's, we had so much success in venture capital, let's go into private equity. Let's try and do it in the in the private equity business. And so when you go into KKR, you go into Apollo, you go into Blackstone, you go into firms like that. And then all of a sudden we said, Okay, well, hey, this is going great. We now have venture we now have private equity. Let's do a real estate fund of funds. Okay, well, so then you go into Shorenstein, and you go into Barry sternlich fund, and you go into, you know, a bunch of different funds out in the New York area, in the real estate fund. And then, hey, let's, let's do a hedge fund of funds, right? And all the way, we're hiring people were, were we got offices and all over the place. And then the one biggest mistake we made was some of our employees went to Silicon Valley Bank, which was no was operating back then, and we they borrowed money to kind of front run, kind of some of our commitments into these, into these great funds. Well, that all works great until, you know, the the train stops and the in the fundraising stops, and you can't pay back those loans. And so that was the mistake we made. Was taking debt, and that was a big mistake, and I'll just never forget, you know, you know, trying to sell the business, and we had this big debt load, it's just impossible to do. And so now I learned a valuable lesson back then is, hey, don't, don't take, if you're going to run an asset management business, don't take any debt. And that that that was, that was our downfall. And that's kind of, you know, kind of why this business, my new business, is kind of working so well, is because I don't have any debt. You know, they're just, they're just, well,

David Novak 32:35 

you learned your lesson, and it seems like you, you're like, an incredible learner, though it seems you like you, that's a big part of what makes you you I

Harris Barton 32:43 

just, it was something that really kind of, it still haunts me, you know, because, you know, the one thing about being an ex athlete and being on Star teams is, hey, you got a microscope stared at you. You know, it's a little bit different than, you know, the guy that graduates out of Harvard Business School and he takes a lot of debt, and, you know, they crater his business. But when it happens to, you know, three athletes, you know, one day you're on the cover of Sports Illustrated, the next day you're on the cover of, you know, the Wall Street Journal, because, you know, people want to see you fail. There's a lot of guys out there that, you know, put us up on a pedestal. And hey, when things went bad, man, they kicked that pedestal out so quickly, and you feel like you get your teeth kicked in. And one thing again, you learn from sports is, Hey, man, you got to get back up again. You got to get up off. It's all about the next play. And again, a lot of this I learned from Ronnie Lott. Man, because when bad shit was happening, Ronnie Lott was right there. You know, Ronnie Lott was the guy that introduced me to George Roberts. Ronnie Lott was the guy that that kind of got this thing back on track, right. And so that's those are lessons that were that were well learned, and probably lessons that I'll never forget in lessons that I mean, I try and tell athletes all the time and Hey, be super careful, man. Because if you're out there, you know, like George Roberts always told me, hey, the breach, the breaching whale gets, gets harpooned, and you know what? So I kind of try and lay under the radar screen, hopefully only six people listen to this podcast.

David Novak 34:12 

More than that, I would say, I hope anyway. But you know, Paris, you get your teeth knocked in. You do get back up, and now you've got Barton asset management, you're not getting it out of the park from everything. I've been able to tell give us a snapshot of the business that you lead today. So

Harris Barton 34:30 

the business I lead today was a business that started in 2011 I did a little bit differently this time. Instead of borrowing money from the bank to get the business started, I went to 30 guys here in the in the valley, 30 guys around the country, and I said, Hey, listen, I want you to buy part of my, part of my business to get to get started. You can own one and a half percent of my business. Put a little bit of money into that, into the management company. But what I need from you is I need deal flow. I need good people, and I need people that are going to give me a second. Chance. And I went to guys like George Roberts, and I went to guys like Jeff Yang, and I went to guys like John will let you. Went to guys like Wes Edens in the in New York. I went to guys like a Neil Bucha re, you know, a bunch of business leaders that a lot of your listeners will know. And each of them, you know, put a little bit of money into the management company. Each of them owns a little bit of the of the carry in the business, and off we went. And each of them made a commitment into a, what I call a co investment fund that I managed, and that was a $30 million co Investment Fund. And so what I would do with their with with their money, is I'd call down 10% of their capital, $3 million and I'd go to a company like Pure Storage. Pure Storage is a company that was started in the, you know, early 2000s not not early 2000s but probably mid 2010 2011 and I'd go to that company, I say, Listen, I think I can help your sales, guys. I think I can help you drive sales. I think I can help you recruit. I think I can help motivate. And in return, just let me put a little bit of $30 million I raised from all these individuals into your into your series B, and you know what in they would go back and they go, gosh. I remember when Harris, you know, came in and challenged our team to to do 12 million in sales. And when we did it, he sent four of our guys as a Super Bowl. And hey, I remember when Harris came in and he took all our sales guys golfing down at Pebble Beach. And I remember when Harris did that Monday night football party for all our sales guys and all our customers, and hey, you know what? We should give him, you know, a million dollars in our series C, when we go out and raise it. And sure enough, you get, you get involved in these companies, and you're meeting sales guys, and you're and you're meeting and you're meeting the CEOs, and all of a sudden, Pure Storage goes public on the New York Stock Exchange, and you're out there ringing the bell and having a great time, and you see the same thing that I felt when I won the Super Bowl was, Hey, man, you just see the joy. You see the you see reaching Mount Everest, you know, you see people climbing to the top. And that's the kind of the drug that you want when you win Super Bowls and the kind of drug you want when you when you start companies. And so that's kind of how I started the business. And then when my non compete expired with the Silicon Valley Bank in 2012 I started a new fund of funds, because I knew that I needed to look inside each one of these venture capital funds to find their new great deals. And so I started a fund of funds with the same manager that I invested in in the 80s, now that were good buddies of mine, and still good buddies of mine, and were willing to give me a second chance, and they let me start a fund of funds. So I started in 2011 with Harrisburg asset management, with a $30 million co Investment Fund and a $90 million fund of funds, and that was my first vintage. And now I'm operating out on my fifth vintage. In each one of those, I have co investment five, and I have a fund of funds five, and I have about a billion dollars of assets under management. And guess what? I operate really by myself. I have a secretary that's that's super helpful, and I outsource my back office to a great group out in, out of, out of San Francisco, and, you know, all my compliance and all my stuff is outsourced. And so, you know, lesson learned, I don't, you don't need a lot of people in this business. You just need great relationships. You need great people that are going to help you out, and you don't need debt. And so that's kind of how I've taken the business from 2008 to 2025

David Novak 38:25 

now. Well, congratulations for getting back on your feet and building something that you you know how to build, and something that you know how to run, and you're continuing to grow. So that's fantastic. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Harris Barton in just a moment, as you've heard us talk about, one of the many people Harris has learned from is Jeff Yang, the co founder of red point ventures and one of America's most respected venture capitalists. In our episode on how leaders lead, Jeff talks about the importance of having a healthy paranoia about your competition, I

Geoff Yang 39:01 

find that the best entrepreneurs, and the converse is the worst entrepreneurs. The worst entrepreneurs have no respect for the competition, and they feel like I don't have to worry about it. And you want to have courage of your own convictions, and you want to believe in what you're doing, but you have to have paranoid. Andy Grove had this great quote about only the Paranoid Survive, right? What you want is healthy paranoia. You want to respect the competition. You should never feel like the competition is stupid or they're lazy or they're just not going to do it. And I've seen great entrepreneurs get lapped because they just have no respect for the competition. And so it's that nice blend between worry about what other people see and trying to understand what's in their head, and having the paranoia that they may have a better idea, but as long as I stick to what I understand and you try to learn from your competition, and that's one of the biggest flaws in big companies, they're not paranoid enough. They dismiss the competition, or they dismiss young upstarts. At the end of the day, that's. Gets in trouble.

David Novak 40:01 

Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Jeff, episode 103, here on how leaders lead. And you know, you get all kinds of accolades, Harris, because you're a phenomenal guy, but you've been phenomenal at whatever you've ever chosen to do. You know, obviously you're great in football, and I understand that you were inducted in the College Football Hall of Fame a few years ago. How did that honor impact you? You know, you're a humble guy, but that's, that's a pretty big thing to have happen. Well,

Harris Barton 40:32 

growing up as a kid, I was, I was a huge Archie Manny fan, you know, I lived in Atlanta, and the Falcons, you know, would play New Orleans, and there was Archie Manning just getting the crap beat out of him. But, man, he came back all the time. And I'll never forget Mac Brown, who was, who was a coach in North Carolina at the time, who was a College Football Hall of Famer, approached me and said, Hey, listen, you know what we're I'm now the coach in North Carolina, and you need to be in the College Football Hall of Fame. I go, Well, I don't, I don't really, you know, I don't know how to do that. I don't, you know, I've been out of football for 30 years now. I have no clue who to call. So Max said, Hey, I'm gonna call my good buddy, Archie Manning. And so sure enough, Matt called Archie Manning. And I don't know if Archie did it or not, but Archie So somehow, somebody pulled some strings, and there I was, you know, getting inducted into hall into College Football Hall of Fame. But the most impactful moment of that was I was sitting in Hawaii on Christmas day with my family, and my phone rings and it's Archie Manning, you know, it's like I looked down on my phone and says, Archie Manning. I'm like, oh my god, it's Archie Manning calling. He calls me up and he says, Harris, you know what? In about 25 minutes, they're going to deliver a ball to you in Hawaii. It's going to say you've been inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame. I just want to let you know, congratulations. It's well deserved. I'm like, Archie, oh my god, it's the greatest moment of my life, not because I got into the college football because you're calling me on Christmas Day. That's a good man, Archie man. And now

David Novak 42:03 

you, you've got kids that go to UNC and and to the three of them play lacrosse, or Yeah.

Harris Barton 42:11 

So I have four children. My oldest daughter, Anna, came here, and she's, she's now in graduate school here, but she played on the Jenny Levy's 2022, national championship team for women's lacrosse, had a great career here. I My son Paul, is a senior here at North Carolina. He's a defenseman, long stick, MIDI, kind of all American, kind of player for lacrosse. He's here now. He's a senior. They're getting ready to start their their their season in about two weeks. My son, my daughter, Ellie, is a, was a, was a great athlete in high school, but she chose to come to North Carolina, and she's just loving School, which is she's, honestly, she's kind of the happiest of all our kids should have to worry about what the coach says, or, you know, going to practice, joined a great sorority and having a great time and doing great in school. And then my son, Jack, who is a senior in high school, is here. I'm actually in North Carolina right now. He's doing his official visit. He's going to come to North Carolina next year and play for Joe bresci and Dave Petra Mala as a defenseman at for the University of North Carolina, Tar Heels lacrosse, men's lacrosse team. So that's all for so I so I'm all in I'm all in North Carolina.

David Novak 43:31 

I've seen you play golf. So it must be your wife that has the great hand eye coordination.

Harris Barton 43:36 

She's amazing. She's amazing swimmer growing up. And you know what? I think the reason why kids play lacrosse, I just didn't want them to play football at the time, and they never did. So my wife loved lacrosse. She thought it was a great sport for kids. You know, it's really a great sport for families, right? Raising families on a lacrosse field, you know, whether or not they go to college or not. I mean, you just meet some of the, some of the greatest families, and that those become your kind of friends, you know, through your, you know, your elementary school years and your high school, your kids high school years. And it does become friends for life. And that's kind of why we love the sport of lacrosse.

David Novak 44:12 

What's more stressful? You know, being on the field as a player or watching your kids play lacrosse, watching

Harris Barton 44:17 

your kids play lacrosse, it is super stressful. It was super stressful, you know? I mean, again, another lesson, you know that my that I learned from Ronnie Lott, you know, I remember sitting at a dinner table once, and somebody asked Ronnie, Hey, Ronnie, what's, what's the most valuable thing you learned about about kids? And he said, You know what? The thing I learned about kids is that kids don't want to hear my story. You know, they want me to hear their story. So that's kind of something I took with me in raising these kids. It's like, I don't want, I don't want to tell my stories my kids, my kids don't want to hear how I block against this guy, or how many Super Bowls I won, or, you know, or what's going on. They want me to hear their stories. And so you gotta, as a parent, I try. And listen. I try and listen to what they're doing. I'm not I'm not out there critiquing. Hey, you know you gotta slide better. Hey, you gotta catch the ball. You gotta do this. You gotta do that. I just, Hey, are you having fun? Are you working hard? You know, what's your coach telling you to try and do that? Those are the I want tell me your stories I don't want to hear. Do you don't hear my stories?

David Novak 45:18 

I love that, and Harris has been so much fun. I want to have some more with my more with my lightning round of questions. So you ready for this?

Harris Barton 45:25 

I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's go the three words that best describe you, humble, great father, great husband.

David Novak 45:32 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? George Roberts, your biggest pet peeve,

Harris Barton 45:39 

probably, superstitions, is my biggest pet peeve. Who would play you in a movie? Oh gosh, I hate to say it, but Rodney Dangerfield, you have two

David Novak 45:47 

front row tickets to anything you want. Where are you going and who are you taking with you?

Harris Barton 45:52 

Two front row seats to see an opening of Hamilton in New York City, and I would take my wife with me

David Novak 46:00 

as a North Carolina alum, what's the first phrase that comes to mind when I say Blue Devils? Oh, hey,

Harris Barton 46:08 

there's a shirt they sell out here because it says breathe if you hate Duke right? So that's

David Novak 46:14 

your favorite golf course in Northern California. You got Cypress Point the most holes you've played in golf in a single day. 36

Harris Barton 46:21 

I've never been able to do that. 72 calls. It's golf. 36 about as many as I can do.

David Novak 46:27 

What's the one thing you do, just for you? Harris, probably nothing.

Harris Barton 46:31 

Maybe lesson learned, I should do something for me. Your

David Novak 46:35 

most prized possession, my kids, if I turned on the radio in your car, what

Harris Barton 46:40 

would I hear? You probably hear a little bit of ACDC. Is what you probably hear. What's something about you few people would know I actually won an Emmy Award a long time ago. So that's a lot of people don't know that. What's

David Novak 46:53 

one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss, something

Harris Barton 46:56 

I never miss. I try and exercise daily.

David Novak 46:59 

Great. That's the end of the light. You're a good job. Now, I got to ask you, what do you win the Emmy for

Harris Barton 47:04 

I won me a local television show that with a guy by name of Mark upon Yes, you know, we analyzed the 40 Niners, and we want to Emmy me him, and the guy by name of Ralph Barbieri, won an Emmy for the for the for the for the for the show. And, yeah, there it is. It's sitting in my living room like, you know, all stress, you know, the Emmy. It's like, yeah, all right, it's an Emmy.

David Novak 47:25 

You know, you can look back, you know, you have all these great memories. And, you know, I always talk about the importance of creating new memories. You know, how do you think about that? No,

Harris Barton 47:35 

I think, I think you gotta, you gotta just keep growing, you know, again, trying to learn from people that that that have done this a long time, guy like Sam Reeves, I know Sam's been on this show before I actually listened to and it was great. But Sam's taught me so much about, hey, just you got to be curious. You know what? He's 90 years old. You know, guys still can shoot in the 80s in golf. I mean, he gets out there. And when you play golf with Sam, you know he never talks about himself. He always is asking you questions. He's curious about what's going on. What do you think about the world? What do you think about the politics? What do you think about the situation in the Middle East? What do you think about business? Never, never. And so that's the thing that, that I that I want to keep doing, is I want to keep having those type of things I want to keep learning. And

David Novak 48:26 

you know, I understand that in your house, and you've got, I'm sure, a you got Sports Illustrated covers, you got all this stuff. You all these pictures that you could put on the walls, but you don't have one picture of you playing football or a football team or anything. Not

Harris Barton 48:41 

one, not one. And again, it's one of those things, Hey, kids don't want to hear my stories. They want me to hear their stories. And so my wife, you know what? When football was over, football's over, you know, you got to move on. Got to, you know, you you got to take from what you learned from football and move it, move move forward. And that's kind of what I've tried to do. I really wanted to get as far away from football as I possibly could. You know, I could have coached, I could have done some broadcasting, maybe, but I didn't want to do any that. I wanted to get as far away from football as I possibly could.

David Novak 49:14 

All right, last question here, Harris, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

Harris Barton 49:19 

Listen, listen to smarter people than you. And that goes with anything in sports. It goes in business. It goes in life. Really is that you know, you think you might have all the answers, but you probably don't, and there's somebody out there that that can help you along, and you need as a as a leader, as a football player, as a basketball player, as a student, you just you need to listen. You know,

David Novak 49:46 

Harris, I want to thank you so much for taking time to be on this show. You know, you are humble, and I think that's one of the reasons why it was so hard for me to get you to talk about yourself for an hour, but you ended up talking about everybody else. You didn't. Talk much about yourself, but I appreciate you for being the person that you are, being a person that gives back. And it's great to see guys like you, who've worked so hard to learn from others, be so successful, make a difference in the world. Well, David,

Harris Barton 50:12 

David, you know, I learned that from you. I've known you for a long time, and you've never been anything but kind. When you're when you're leading young brands, you're you're amazing. Your advice you gave on business, on on business, and on life. And hey, I'm humbled that you asked me to be on this show, because I feel like I'm in, I'm I'm walking with greatness here. So I appreciate the opportunity to spend an hour. All right.

David Novak 50:35 

Well, thank you, buddy. I appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 50:42 

You know, I said at the top

David Novak 50:43 

that you're going to learn a lot from Harris, and I'm sure that you did, but you also learned from Joe, Montana, Ronnie, Lott, Sam Reeves, and so many more great leaders, and that's because Harris is a sponge. He's curious, he's humble, and he's always learning from the people and situations around him. The truth is, we're always surrounded by insights and answers. We're just not always tuned into them. So keep your antenna up, as I like to say, and you'll uncover those insights all the time, just like Harris does. This week, I want you to consider a problem or issue that you've been stuck on, then ask yourself, are you really stuck, or do you just need to consider who you already know that may already have the answer for you. If you're willing to learn and listen, you can get it from that person. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders know that to learn from others, you've got to listen to them, and you've got to seek them out. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Alan teageson, the CEO of Docusign. And I have to tell you, this is a really fun interview, and I know you're going to love it, because

Speaker 1 51:53 

you can't be successful in any organization unless you're you're selling to others, and particularly early on your career where you don't have any authority, it comes from your persuasive ability,

David Novak 52:03 

so be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday, you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each and every episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be. You.