Think big and where most people think about where here's an opportunity. Think beyond that. This was an audacious goal to roll up even 24 minor league baseball teams and it's turned into something even bigger than I could have imagined. Welcome to Howl Leaders Lead. I'm David Novak and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader that you can be. And my guest today is Pat Battle, the executive chairman of Diamond Baseball Holdings. DBH owns 45 of the 120 minor league baseball teams and with baseball season kicking off this week, there's no better time to learn from my friend Pat. See, Pat has an incredible career across media, sports and business. But what really sets him apart is his mindset. He's a firm believer that optimism isn't just a fluffy feel good feeling. It's a real advantage in business because he knows when you bring optimism to a negotiation or an idea or a leadership challenge, you don't really see problems, you see possibilities. Keep watching and see how to turn optimism into your competitive advantage. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Pat Battle. Working in baseball, you probably spent a lot of time thinking about this, Pat. If you were in the minors, what would be your walk up song? I've spent no time thinking about that , but I think that it would have to be Sweet Home Alabama, Leonard Skinner, go back to my roots. No surprise there. I love it. I love it. Now Pat, give us a snapshot of Diamond Baseball Holdings and how you're literally transforming the minor league baseball landscape, which you're doing. Yeah. It's been probably the most fun four years that I've ever spent in business. My entire career has been in sports, which is just a dream come true. But I knew enough about minor league baseball to be dangerous, but watched what MLB was doing and commissioned or man for it in 2019 when they decided to really change minor league baseball, improve the facility standards. And at that time, there were 162 affiliated minor league baseball teams. They ended up cutting 42 teams out of the system, reorganizing the geography. And each of the 30 major league teams have four affiliates, AAA, AA, high single A, so 120 in total. And Rob was getting a lot of criticism from politicians and minor league baseball owners. And I saw an idea called the commissioner, had a conversation, and he really liked the thesis. He liked the fact that I came from college sports. There are a lot of similarities between college sports and minor league baseball, certainly in the towns in which they reside. And so, you know, we started small . We had an opportunity to acquire up to 24 teams, which at that time there was a rule that no one entity could own more than four. And here we are four years later, and we own 41 of the 120. And we go from Portland, Maine to Vancouver, Canada, all the way down to Southern California and all the way across the Southern US to Spartanburg, South Carolina. And it's going a lot further and a lot faster than what we ever anticipated. But it's just been a great ride and something that I'm very proud of and excited and passionate about. And we've put together an incredible team to run the organization. And so, it's been a lot of fun. Yeah, take me back to that moment, you know, when you're thinking about the idea where you had that aha moment where you said, Hey, you know, I really do think we can do something big here and change the game. Yeah, it was interesting. It was in November of 2020. I remember exactly where I was when when I was reading an article that was very critical of the commissioner. And so, I called him that day and he took the call and we had a 30 minute conversation and he was very intrigued. You know, I didn't know if we could do this, David, but he was very encouraging. He wanted to talk to his senior team. And from there, I went back to Atlanta the next day and called Terry McGurk, who I didn't know at the time that the Braves owned three of their four minor league affiliates. And so had breakfast with Terry and really was hoping that he would talk me out of it. And he actually said, you know, you're about to do something that I've always wanted to do, felt like there was a real opportunity here and walked out an hour later from Goldberg's Dally at the battery with a handshake to acquire three of the Braves affiliates . So then I went to the office and said, Well, we better figure out how to make this happen. And so I called Egon Durbin and Greg Mondray, who I had done a lot of work with Silver Lake and just have the ultimate respect for the two of them and for their firm and, you know, gave them the elevator pitch on the thesis and they were behind it. And that's really how it took off. It was all in a span of of a week in late 2020 when the idea started and we began pursuing it. You know , that's really cool because, you know, Terry McGurk, he's one of the greatest executives ever in major league baseball. He's done a fantastic job with the Braves from the Braves. And then, you know, you go to the two renowned Silver Lake partners, you know, which is, you know, Egon and Greg, both of them are fantastic. What kind of, how much confidence did that give you when you when you had guys of that stature saying, Hey, I would do this if I were you. Yeah, well, that gave me a lot of confidence. You know, I felt like it was a good idea. I'd spent enough time around minor league baseball and had seen, you know, some of the opportunities, whether it's building new stadiums, improving the standards, creating, you know, just creating best practices and applying scale to the business. And so I felt like the thesis was, was sound, but certainly, you know, getting confirmation and affirmation from Terry and Egon, Greg, the commissioner and many others along the way has been very gratifying. So you see this opportunity in minor league baseball that others didn't. And you've been around a lot of leaders yourself. You know, what do you think separates leaders who spot big opportunities from from those who who miss them? My story, David, is really about, you know, I've just been so fortunate to be surrounded by so many great people, great leaders. And I've just, you know, had, you know, such an incredible number of amazing people that have been put in my path along, you know, along the way. I think of, you know, a person like Billy Payne . And, you know, Billy is one of my heroes in life. Everybody knows Billy, you know, for bringing the Olympics to Atlanta and for other things that he's done in golf. And but he's just, he's got a big vision. He thinks big. And, you know, I've really learned from from Billy how to, and I can't do it like he does, but, you know, to think big and where most people think about where here's an opportunity, you know, really think beyond that. And I think that this was this was an audacious, you know, goal to roll up, you know, even 24 minor league baseball teams. And it's turned into something even bigger than I could have imagined. But you know, I think that, you know, that lesson of, you know, really thinking outside the box, thinking big had a had a big impact in terms of the vision here and, and how it's come together over the last four years. Have you always had that, that kind of leadership mindset, Pat, where you, you know, you got the guts and the courage to transform an industry like that? I mean, you know, to think big, the vision on that is this something that you had just in your DNA or is it something that you developed over time? It was probably in my DNA because, you know, I think the best teacher to me was my father. And, you know, he actually transformed an industry and collegiate licensing space. And, and I grew up around that. And, you know, the thing that I learned early on, my dad, you know, was was an incredible man, David. And I think you probably met him a few times and, and knew about him, but he was, you know, he became the youngest college football coach at 28 years old, at the University of Tennessee, and had seven great years at Tennessee, left Tennessee, thought he would get back into coaching, got into business, loved business. That was really his passion. And so, you know, he and I had a great 30 plus year run together. And then 10 years after he retired, became the athletic director at Alabama at age 71. So he was the youngest football coach in SEC history and the oldest athletic director in SEC history and, and an incredible career in between. But as a businessman, he was a classic entrepreneur. You know, he wanted to be involved in every detail of the business, whether it was accounting or technology before there was technology. And, you know, and I learned early on that I wasn't smart enough or talented enough, you know, to be involved in that. And so, you know, when I, when I became president of our business, you know, probably 30, 35 years ago now, you know, I knew that I had to surround myself with people that were smarter and more talented than me, which wasn't very difficult . So, you know, I think I just saw the entrepreneurial spirit that he had. And, you know, that has carried on. And then with, you know, with others, you included, you know, who have come into my life that, you know, just been, you know, such an inspiration to me and that I've learned so much from, you know, that has really carried over into an entrepreneurial spirit and thinking big and, and also, you know, it's hard to think big, but also have the attention to detail. And so, you know , all of those characteristics really come to play come into play when you're, you know, trying to do something like this. You know, and one of the things that, you know, I really admire is, is, it seems that you're so intentional on your strategy. And one of those strategies seems to be keeping local team leadership in place even after you make the acquisitions. Give me an example of why that's, that's turned out to be the, be the right call. Yeah, no, it's, it's a great and important question because, you know, I think it's fair to say that when, when we came in and started acquiring teams, and you know, we stayed under the radar throughout most of 2021. And then in December of 2021 is when we announced our first 10 acquisitions, including the three brave teams, the AAA Yankees, AAA Dodgers, AAA Cubs, I mean, it was a, you know, it was a pretty massive announcement. There was a lot of, you know, fear and unknown with, you know, this group coming in back by Silver Lake, a private equity firm, you know, how were they going to operate in minor league baseball? Because minor league baseball is, you know, it's a really important, it's part of the fabric of 120 communities around, around the country. And so, you know, from my college days, you know, I understood how important, you know, these teams were in their local community. And we've always, you know, just strive to do that. So, you know, we're very proud that, you know , over four years of the 41 teams that we've acquired, 38 of the GMs that we inherited at acquisition are still in place. It's just very important to have that local presence. And so, you know, we think, you know, from a, from a scale perspective, there's an opportunity to take the lines of business, whether sponsorship, ticketing, you know, food and beverage, merchandising, whatever it is, and to create scale. But the key and the trick is to make sure that locally that, you know, everything, you know, the Iowa Cubs and Des Moines, Iowa, that it has that local flavor. And, you know, the Portland Sea Dogs and Portland, Maine have that local flavor. And the GMs and the staffs and on these teams are, are just critical to that. And you couldn't do it without them. And, you know, the other thing that I would say is I always admired, you know, being in sports . You know, if you look at pro leagues, if you look at, you know, big college athletic programs, I'm certainly not saying that it's easy to operate. But in minor league baseball, nothing is given to you. You know, there aren't a lot of incoming calls. If you look at the employees in minor league baseball, they may wear five different hats. They may be selling tickets during the day and pulling tarp or, you know, but behind the counter or whatever at night. And, you know, the spirit across minor league baseball and the employees that make it up is just amazing and it's energizing and it's inspiring to me. It's got to be a lot of fun. And, you know, with these 41 teams, you have scale. Do you do anything to get the 41 management teams together to learn from each other? Or how do you share best practices? Yeah, that's exactly the, you know, that's the thesis. And we do that every week. We have a call with all of the GM s once a week, where we come together and, you know, talk about opportunities and we'll have two or three clubs every week talk about things that they've done that have worked. And, you know, the way to make this company work, the way to make DBH work is to take the best practices and to apply those across the system. And, you know, that's what we're trying to do. That's great. You know, and one of the things that I've heard you say in our conversations is that you really like this gold standard mindset. And so tell us a story of how you set that tone from the top. I mean, you have an example of where you've been able to do that. I will tell you a story that resonates when we sold our collegiate business to IMG back in 2007. I met a guy named Ian Todd and Ian has just become a very close friend. He's from Britain and Ian has had one of the most incredible sports careers in the world. And Ian started working for Martin McCormick at IM G at an early age, rose up through the ranks and became president of IMG Global. And then was hired away by Phil Knight and Ian and his family moved from London to Portland, Oregon. And he ran Nike Global Sports Marketing. And then when Teddy Forsman acquired IMG after Martin McCormick had passed away, Teddy hired Ian back to IMG to run everything outside the US. And so Ian and I became great friends in 2008, nine and 10 and remained great friends today. And I was asking him, I said, you've had three of the most amazing bosses in the world. And Martin McCormick, Phil Knight and Teddy Forsman, what makes them tick? How would you describe the difference in those three? And he said, it's very easy. He said, both Mr. McCormick and Mr. Knight are entrepreneurs. They started their company. They built it from scratch, where Teddy Forsman was a classic venture capitalist. And for Forsman, everything was about the destination. He didn't care about anything except getting to the end, building a successful company and getting to the exit, where Mr. McCormick and Mr. Knight were all about the journey. They really didn 't care about the destination. It was all about how do we operate along the way, celebrate the winds along the way? And that has really resonated with me. And so I think that we try to paint the vision to our team of what we want to accomplish and what we think the end game might ultimately be in minor league baseball and how we can transform these communities. But we never want to forget to celebrate the winds along the way and that this is a journey and not a destination. So I think that when you think about the gold standard to me, it's how do we keep that drive and keep moving but celebrate the winds as we go along? You talked about the power of teamwork a few times already. And do you do anything unique as it relates to building your team and making sure that it gels and stays in sync? We try to. I think that throughout my career, to me, and growing up in sports and college football is probably my passion. And you see how good teams operate and you see how bad teams fail. And so I think that you're only as strong as your weakest link and you have to have everybody pulling in the same direction. And so we certainly give a lot of thought to how can we do that? And I think it comes with communication, it comes with trust, it comes with painting a vision. And then ultimately, it comes with having the right people on your team and turning them loose to do their job. But to do the job, they need to understand the goal and the vision and what you're trying to accomplish. But at the end of the day, once you share that vision, it's how can we really work together as a unified unit and make this thing work. Hi, everyone. It's Kula from How Leaders Lead. And if you're seeing my face right now, it means you're watching this interview on YouTube. I want to say thanks. Thanks for watching it on YouTube. And if you love the show, subscribe to the channel so you never miss an episode. And if you like one of the episodes, let us know in the comments. I want to just give a shout out to a couple folks who have left some positive reviews. This guy says, you are a great podcaster. David, shout out David, you are a great podcaster. Someone else said, earn to subscribe to the channel. I listened from start to end. You guys, these conversations are incredible, as you know. And if you love them, hit subscribe on our channel , leave a comment. If you love one of the episodes, it'll help us in our mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And you know, we truly believe that better workplaces, better communities and a better world starts with better leaders. And when you help this podcast grow, it helps us do more of that. So subscribe to the channel, let us know if you love one of the shows, and we might even feature you in one of the episodes. So subscribe to the channel today, and thank you so much for listening. You know, I'd like to dig a little deeper in how you make decisions, Pat, you know, when you're looking at a sports property, whether it 's a minor league team, a media business or a licensing deal, what's the most important factors for you to consider before you make a move? We've been agnostic in terms of geography, in terms of the size of the stadium, in terms of the revenues of the team. We just believe that if you 're one of 120 affiliated minor league baseball teams, that there's an opportunity to make that work. So, you know, it's really about what you do with it, once you acquire it, and once you own it, and how can you fit it into your system, and hopefully motivate the teams at each level to build a success. And so, you know, that's really what we're trying to do is to make that work. You know, you're constantly, when you make these acquisitions, you got to be in negotiations. I mean, and you know, when you go into a negotiation, you know, how do you get ready for it? And what do you think is the key to the success? We've acquired 41 teams, and we've had 41 different unique negotiations. Every negotiation is different. And I think that, you know , preparation is probably the, you know, the single most important thing, and you know, understand who you're negotiating with, understand who owns the team, and you know, what brought them to that point. And this, though, it's been really interesting because, you know, other than the MLB teams who own their minor league affiliates, which is only about, you know, 20% of the 120, the vast majority of minor league baseball teams are owned by local business people in these communities that really care about their community. They care about their staff. Obviously, they're, you know, business people and, and, you know, want to create a profit and generate money. But in most of the negotiations that we've had, you know, it's really about they want to hear about, okay, we want you to be loyal and to stay in our community. We want you to be loyal and to keep our staff in place. And then let's come up with a fair price. It's not the other way around. I've been in negotiations where it's all about the price. And, you know, if that's the, you know, it gets to be more difficult when it's about that. But, you know, we can, we can make owners very comfortable that we care about the community. We want to be in the community. We love, as I said earlier, we just love the ingenuity and the spirit of employees in minor league baseball. And so that's an easy one to answer. Then you can, you know, come to a fair agreement on the price and move on. So, but, but I, you know, I love that part of the job. And, and that's something that, you know, that I've essentially been involved in all of the negotiations and just think that's a very important part because at the end of the day and any negotiation, to me, it's important to have that everybody wins. You know, if you come out of a negotiation and only one side wins, it hasn't been successful. You know, Pat, you know, I've talked to you a little bit about what you're, what you're doing. And it's very exciting. But you're not just investing in the team. You're also looking at greater potential within the , within the community in terms of how to, how to, you know, leverage your investment, you know, how do you think about expanding the business beyond just baseball, you know? And I'd like you to use Louisville as an example. I mean, you just came in to my hometown. You now have the minor league team. When you look at Louisville and that community, where do you see the, the, the real business opportunity? And especially as you think about it, beyond just the baseball team. Louisville is a great example. And we are extremely excited to, to be in Louisville. And, you know, just to talk about that one for a second, when, when we were at the press conference announcing the acquisition of the AAA Reds, the Louisville bats, this was probably October of 23, I think, probably 18 months ago. Mayor Greenberg was at the press conference and pulled us aside and said, we have been waiting on DBH to acquire the bats. We couldn't be more excited. We want to be great partners with you and help you in any way that we can. He said it just so happens that the city owns six acres of land adjacent to your stadium, which we found out later was used as a surface parking lot in the right field and outfield. And so 18 months later, we've now announced a major mixed use development, really taking a page out of what Terry McGurk and Derek Schiller did with the Braves with the battery to create a mixed use development in Louisville. Because one of, one of Mayor Greenberg's, you know, huge objectives was to really, you know, bring people back into downtown Louisville and to re reenergize, you know, that part of the city. And so we will break ground this year on a $250 million mixed use development with the hotel cond ominiums, entertainment space and retail to create more restaurants and just to create reasons for people to come for citizens of Louisville to come downtown and to come to that area of the ballpark. Because you know, what we find in a lot of these communities, David, is that, you know, these ball parts are the centers of energy in these communities. And so the more that we can do to build that up and to create that energy, it's good for everybody. And so, you know, that's, that's one example in Louisville, as an answer to your question. But also, you know, the Louisville bats play 75 home games a year. So it's basically 20% of the calendar. And part of our thesis that we're starting to roll out is how do we light these stadiums the other 80% of the days when there aren't minor league baseball games. And so whether it's with concerts or Savannah bananas games, we had a great Savannah bananas event last summer in Louisville sold out three straight nights. Pretty amazing phenomenon, but as concerts and bananas games and high school baseball games and conference tournaments and, you know, potentially down the road soccer and other sports that can fill out the calendar in these communities. And so it's a big part of the thesis. It's probably the phase two part of the thesis. Phase one was really to roll up the teams and and aggregate and to make sure that we're running and operating a good business. But phase two is how do we, you know, bring more live sport and entertainment events into these communities that can be very impactful. Yeah, leveraging that asset. You got a great asset there. How do you how do you use it more frequently makes a ton of sense. And you bring up Jesse Cole, who has been on one of my podcasts. And, you know, I've read his books and he's he's a heck of an entrepreneur. He 's and a great marketing person. And in Europe, you're obviously a tremendous learner. You've talked about learning from the Braves and how you applied that to Louisville. What have you learned about entertainment and marketing just working with Jesse Cole and the Savannah bananas group? Jesse is he's amazing. And I guess it was probably two or three years ago when I reached out just cold called Jesse. Didn't know a lot about him, but had, you know, heard about the bananas and and he was starting to make some noise on a national level with the 60 minutes and some other, you know, news organizations that covered what they were doing. And we had a great conversation and, you know, Jesse shared with me that, you know, his hero in life is PT Barnum. So it's all about, you know, entertainment. He was a minor league baseball player, a great athlete. Baseball was his passion. And he just felt that baseball had become too corporate. And, you know, what's interesting, I met with Jesse again with a couple of his team members and Peter Freund, who 's our CEO of DBH. We met with Jesse last April, you know, with the show that they put on starting two hours before the game, the two hours of the game, and then two hours after the game, they curate every minute of that show. And it's all about the fans. It is all about making sure that it's fan friendly. And he said, after every game, our team gets together and we go through and talk about what 's successful, where we failed. And he said, we want to take all fan friction out of the system. And everything focused on that. And that that has, you know, it's easy, easy to say that it's not easy to do that. But he's done it. And, you know, we've certainly taken several page out of Jesse's book and trying to do that. In fact, we just had a, we just had a town hall, a town hall last week with our 1,300 employees. And, you know, one of the things that Peter and I said to our DBH team is, look, we know that, you know, operating, you know, being at the stadium 70, 75 nights a year, it can get monotonous. But, you know, just remember this, we're in the business of making memories. And for the fans that attend these games, it's all about how do we, how do we make memories? And I use the example that that somebody had actually used in a different context with my daughter, who was an aspiring Broadway actress when she was young. And we just said, look, focus on two people every game. There's probably somebody attending that game that this is their very first baseball game. Think about them and how we help them make memories. There's also probably somebody attending that game that's attending their very last game. And so think about those two people every game and know that they're in the stadium. And it will make your job a lot easier. And it will just keep it fresh and how do we make memories and serve? Because if we can serve those two people, we're going to make memories for everybody in the park. And so, again, back to Jesse Cole and the bananas they've really spent, you know, their entire business philosophy doing just that. You know, that's, I've never heard anybody talk about the customer that way. The first, you know, the first experience and the last experience. That's really great. I mean, how do you come up with things like that, Pat? Yeah, well, as I said, this was my daughter, Mary Raines, who is an amazing singer. And at one time in her life, wanted to be on Broadway. Her voice teacher, she talked about, you know, we're doing 20 shows. And how do you stay fresh and keep it fresh? And it was actually her voice teacher that said, just imagine that in the audience tonight is somebody seeing their very first show and somebody seeing their very last show and focus on those two people. And that's always resonated with me. And I think it's a great lesson in life. It really is, you know, and it's also a great example of pattern thinking. You know, where it's you're taking something from one industry and saying, okay, how do we take it over here? You know, I want to shift gears, and you did talk about the huge impact that your father had on you in your life. But tell us a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today. Well, I don't know about shape the kind of leader, but, you know, but I was just very blessed with amazing parents. My mom and dad who have both passed away. My dad, November of just this past year, just recently. And, you know, I think I think probably the, you know, if I had to recall one story, I mentioned earlier that he was the football coach at Tennessee, you know, had a super successful career, went to bowl games and six of the seven seasons and I think best year, probably second in the country. But he was, you know, he played for Bear Bryant in Alabama. He was always a little bit of an outsider at the University of Tennessee because of that rivalry. And in 1976, which was his last season, Johnny Majors, who was a favorite son of Tennessee, was winning a national championship at the University of Pittsburgh. And so Tennessee fans were restless and really wanted Johnny Majors to come home. And so, you know, dad ended up resigning from Tennessee, took a year off. And I'll never forget that the morning that he had made the decision to resign, he and my mom came up to my room. I was in the eighth grade and I was in bed and they woke me up and they said, hey, we just want to let you know that, you know, you know, the last couple of weeks have been kind of rough and we've been thinking about this. And so I'm going to resign today. And he said, look, I know this is sad, but he said, you know, I just want you to know, and this is the way that I think and this is the way that I want you to think. If you believe in yourself, if you believe in God, if you believe in what you're doing, everything is going, it happens for a reason and everything will turn out okay. And, you know, that has just always stuck with me that, you know, in one of the darkest days that he probably ever had, you know, that was his attitude. And, you know, it was believing yourself, believing God, believing what you're doing. And, you know, just plow through and everything will work out. And that has certainly resonated with me. And I hope that, you know, that's in part how I've lived my life. And in his case, you know, it was such a blessing in the skies. I mean, he, we'd love the time in Knoxville. It was an amazing, you know , start to his career. But it was really just the first chapter of many chapters that he was able to write. And I always look back on that day. And if he had not had that attitude, what would have happened versus having that? And I think that, you know, if if I was describing, you know, one of my traits, one of my traits that people tell me, they say, you're such an optimist. And I am, I'm just, you know, I see the glass, the glass half full. And, and I try to be optimistic in all things. And it probably, you know, thinking about it. And thank you for taking me back to that memory. But it probably goes back to that time in the eighth grade when, when I had that conversation with my mom and dad. That's a great story. And, you know, you started your career in 1984, working alongside your father at collegiate licensing company. And you, you were part of basically building an industry from the ground up, you know, tell us a little bit about that business. Yeah, you know, it's very similar ironically to what we're doing in minor league baseball. It really started with with one university, the University of Alabama. And, you know, dad obviously had a great relationship with Bear Bryant, who was his coach at Alabama. And, and my dad would have said that coach Bryant, you know, was probably other than his father, the most influential person that, you know, that he ever was around. So coach Bryant really had the idea. And dad started to represent coach Bryant. And anybody that wanted to use coach Bryant's name and likeness, wanted to use the University of Alabama trademarks. And at that time, there really were no universities who had registered their marks and were taking advantage of it. And so when he started the business in 1981, representing just the University of Alabama, retail market for collegiate merchandise was estimated at probably a hundred million dollars with the vast majority of sales taking place through the bookstore through stadium concessions. And, you know, he had a vision, but it wasn't as big a vision as, you know, what it turned out to be. But he felt like there was an opportunity and, you know, just signed one university at a time, you know, kind of shared division with them. They bought into it. And today, you know, we sold the company in 2007, but I'm very proud to say that CLC is still thriving. It's a it's an amazing business, probably half of the employees that we had in 2007 when we sold are still there today. And it's, you know, which is very gratifying. And to compare where it was when dad started the company, it's a hundred million dollar business with 80% of the sales taking place on campus. Today, it's about a $5 billion retail business with less than 10% of the sales taking place on college campuses. So, you know, it turned out to be a lot bigger, but hopefully we had a hand in making that happen. Yeah, you certainly did. And your dad was CEO until you took over in 2002. And, you know, when you take over for such a titan like that, okay, what was it like just stepping into that leadership role and then making it your own? I recognize that I wasn't smart enough and talented enough to, you know, to be involved in everything. And so, you know, we just built a great team. And by the time that I became president and CEO, you know, we had built out just a tremendous team across every facet of the business. And I think that was, you know, ultimately the secret of the success. But also think, David, that, you know, and this is something that, you know, dad just believed it was part of his DNA. You know, he practiced what he preached in terms of a customer service philosophy, customer first. And, you know, he said, look, if we're in this for us to win, we're never going to win. You know, we have to make this about our customer. And if the universities that we represent, if they're the winners, then, you know, we're going to be okay. You know, that 's something that really carried through. And, you know, and hopefully everything that I've done is really thinking about who is the customer? How do we make them successful? And if they're successful, then everybody else will win. And, you know, it was just an honor. I don't know that I really thought about being handed over the reins. I've been involved in the business for 10 years. It just sort of evolved into, you know, becoming president and CEO. And by that time, you know, I had already had a, you know, a pretty significant hand in putting together the team that would, that would lead us, you know, for the next 10 years when, until we sold. And, and part of that leadership group, as I said, is still in place today, which is very gratifying to me. When you were coming up in that business, was there a, was there a moment, you know, a sort of a seminal moment where that stands out to you, where you said, Hey, Ben, I really want, I want to be the leader. I want to be the guy. Yeah, I don't know about that. You know, as I said, it really just evolved. And we were in business together. And, you know, and we built the business together. And, and it was just, you know, to have your father, you know, as your, you know, closest friend and, you know, being with him every day and as your mentor, it was just a, you know, it was just a great experience. And, you know, looking back on it, I think I probably learned a lot more than I thought at the time when you think about those lessons and how you applied them, you know, but I think that, you know, the seminal moment for us was probably, you know, around 1995, 96, we were 10 or 15 years in the business . We, we probably, at that time, represented, you know, 70 or 80 schools, you know, there were, I think it was 1995, was the year that we signed Notre Dame, Texas, and Florida, who were three very , at that time, very independent thinking universities and athletic departments. And we were able to, you know, I, think, you know, when we were able to get the three of them to see that this is best for us, you know, this is a great company. We want to be associated with this company. That was really the seminal moment in our business in terms of when we achieve scale and when we were on a path to really make this thing work. Yeah, walk me through the decision because you built this incredible business. This is your baby, you know, it's your family business, you know, what made you decide to sell at the IMG sports and entertainment? What was it that, that said, hey, it's time. Teddy Forsman was very persuasive. Teddy had a guy named George Pine. So I mentioned Ian Todd earlier, who was running everything outside the US. He brought George Pine in to run the US business. This was probably, yeah, this was right around 2006, 2007. And George called and, and I knew George from when he was at NASCAR. And he said, I just want to come down and see you. And you know, we got new ownership at IMG . And, you know, I knew what George probably wanted. And we had no interest in, in selling the business. But George came in and said, look, you know, very interested in college. Teddy 's come in as we look at the IMG business today. 75% of the business is outside the US. Only 25% is, is in the US. And, you know, Mr. Forsman, you know, is very keen on trying to grow the US business. IMG doesn't play in college. And this is an area that we would like to look at. And so, you know, I spent my time, you know, basically telling George why IMG didn't want to come into the college business and that we had, you know, over 150 universities and we had 10 year contracts. And, you know, if they wanted to come in and compete, it was going to take a long time to do it. And he said, look, we don't want to compete. But, you know, we think that CLC can be the catalyst for a bigger vision around not only licensing, but multimedia rights and other things. And he got me to agree to go to New York. And George and I had to dinner with, with Teddy Forsman. And, he was a great salesman. And, and we decided that, you know, this was the time to do it. And that, you know, that we could do it in a way that would protect our staff, but also, you know, provide great opportunities to grow and expand beyond what we could do as, as a company. When you plug into the resources of an IMG, it's pretty incredible. And it was, you know, through that experience, you know, I stayed there for three and a half years as part of the acquisition. You know, but I met people like Ian Todd and, and Mark Steinberg and Andy Pierce and Tom Worcester and, you know, so many people that were there during that time that really influenced. And, and I, and I think, you know, as we're talking about this, you know, what, one of the things that, you know, that I learned from that is, you know, I'd spent 30 years in college sports and, and didn't really understand or know, or have confidence that, you know, that I really knew anything outside of college sports. And, and so when you go in, what you realize is that business is business is business, whatever it is, you know, whether it's a, you know, lighting company, I'm on the board of Acuity Brands, know nothing, knew nothing about lighting, but business is business and same principles apply. And, you know, treating your customers right and having a vision and, and building a great team. And, you know, those are sound principles that apply across industries and, and across business. And, and so that was a great lesson for me to learn. And, and one of the great takeaways that I had from, from the time at IMG is, is really learning that there's a much bigger, bigger world out there and that, that the same principles apply. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Pat Battle in just a moment. If you want to go all in on baseball this week, check out my conversation with Rob Manfred, the commissioner of Major League Baseball. I really love how he talks about finding common ground and leadership and why it's key if you want to build momentum. I am old school. I think in terms of negotiations, I really believe that the kind of theory that underlies the National Labor Relations Act is correct. And that theory is essentially, you know, you have an obligation to go in a room and exchange views in a robust way and try in good faith to find common ground. And I really do believe that that exchange of views in the room is crucial to moving people towards the center, towards an agreement on the huge believer in momentum in the process, that people being engaged, involved in the process on a consistent basis, creates a momentum towards agreement that's really, really vital. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Rob, episode 91 here on How Leaders Lead. You know, Pat, you're, you're known for making big bets, you know, on businesses and, you know, being someone that really, you know, does your homework and and you're right more times than you're wrong, obviously. But has there ever been a time where you you were really wrong and how did you pivot? Yeah, I'm wrong every day. In some way, I remember one that this is this is kind of a crazy story that I haven't thought about in 25 years. Sorry to make you do it. When we were in the middle of building CLC, somebody approached me about handling, taking over the licensing for fraternities and sororities. And so I got, for a few days, got excited about that and we went and met with some of the heads of the national chapters of the fraternities and sororities. And they were all fired up about it. We felt like that, you know, that we could take the business that we had and plug into it. And I went to a meeting where we were speaking with, I don't know, there were 100 people in the room and 99 of the people were, I mean, just really upset that we were coming into this business felt like there was no room, room that, you know, we're going to all we're going to do is raise the price on the customers of, you know, people that are buying the members of the fraternity and sorority. And so we shut that down pretty quickly and pivoted. That's not a great answer to your question. No , it's, well, you have the idea and you're smart enough to back off. And probably the, you know, the biggest lesson from that is we didn't do enough research going in. And I really do think that preparation can solve a lot of problems. If you come in, whether you're preparing for an interview or preparing to buy a company or preparing to make a big pitch and sales presentation, you know, really knowing who your audience is is very important and understanding to the best of your ability, what their goals and objectives are, you know, that allows you to be successful. If you're not prepared, you're probably not going to be successful. So let's go back to your baseball business now. And I know you're really excited about the growth opportunities. In fact, you've said that your company is only in its fourth inning of growth. I think that's one of your quotes here. What do you see as the biggest opportunity ahead? Is it more of the roll-ups or is it leveraging the assets you already have? Yeah, I think it's three things. The real estate piece is a big opportunity. And, you know, Louisville will be our first project and we're very proud of that. But we are in, you know, pretty significant conversations and, you know, interestingly to me and it's exciting, you know, it's not just the mayors of these towns, it's the governors of these states that are very invested in, you know, how can we attract, you know, business development in these communities, you know, we're seeing it in so many places. So I think the real estate is something that we will become more focused on. You know, it just so happens that, you know, that could become a great standalone business. But it also creates more energy around the stadium and should be very good for the teams that we own because it just brings more fans to the ballpark. Yeah, we want to continue to roll up and, you know, we're at 41 teams now. Hopefully, you know, we'll have an announcement next week, which should be, which will be a really big announcement, which will take us to 42. And, you know, we should announce three more in the next couple of weeks. So we should be at 45 teams by the start of the season. And, you know, we haven't even begun. We really are in the fourth inning in terms of how do we scale the ticketing and the food and beverage and the merchandising and the sponsorship. And so we think there's a lot of runway there. And then you asked the question about kind of the third opportunity, which is how do we light these stadiums up, you know, for the 80% of the days when they're dark. And, you know, the concerts and the other events that we can bring into the stadium is another great opportunity. All of those are great business opportunities, but they're also really impactful for these communities. You know, these aren't the 30 major markets. You know, Louisville is one of the larger markets for minor league baseball and you have Charlotte and Las Vegas and a few, but it's really it's Des Moines and Scranton and Portland and Columbus, Georgia and Spartanburg, South Carolina and Knoxville, Tennessee. And, you know, those are the places where all of this really happens. And so, you know, one of the gratifying things to me, and I remember early on when I was talking to Greg Mondre at Silver Lake about the business, you know, he said, you know, one of the things that really fired him up was thinking about the impact that we're going to have on these communities. And that's certainly the case and something that I'm very proud of. Well, you should be. It's great when a business always has a noble cause and that's that's a great noble cause. You know, Pat, this has been so much fun. I want to have some more with you with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? I'm ready, I think. All right. What three words best describe you? Well, I think that I'm quietly competitive. I'm optimistic. I want integrity to be a word that would that would people think about me. They would think integrity. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Well, I've always wanted to be the number one golfer in the world. So Scottie Scheffler. Your biggest pet peeve people that think glass half empty. Who would play you in a movie? My family says that Dennis Quaid would be would be the actor that would play me . What's the best mascot in the minor leagues? Oh, that's a tough question. I love slugger. Slugger is the Portland Sea dogs, which is the double A Red Sox mascot. So slug ger is my favorite mascot. They say dogs take after their owners, Pat. So what's the what's what's one way you and your dog are alike? My dog's name is tipsy. So if that tells you anything, you know, tipsy and I really don't have anything in common tipsy is Alice Ann's dog. But I guess if the one way that we would be alike is that we we both love Alice Ann. Where'd your nickname patches come from? Oh, how do you know about patches? Oh my gosh. You know, patches is it's funny. That's my grandfather name. So but patches actually came from this gets back to the competitive part of me. I was playing off with Sun Will and and one of his friends when I was when they were 12. And Will said that every time I would miss a shot, I would say Patrick Patrick. And he thought I was saying patches. And so they started calling me patches. And so for all of my kids, for Will, Mary Raines and Annie, who's our youngest, they started calling me patches. But you know, it's amazing thinking about somebody said to me one time and every time Ali, my granddaughter calls me patches, I think of this somebody I thought this was a great saying. They said that your your kids or your investment and your grandkids are your dividend and and Ali and Paul are they are definitely the dividends. What's one thing that you do just for you other than go to Starbucks every morning? You know, my two passions are I love to golf and I love to fly fish and fly fishing is something that I do just for me. I love to get out whenever I can. I don't do it often enough. But I do love to fly fish since you brought up Starbucks. What's your go to Starbucks order? I hate to say this publicly, but it's a venti vanilla latte. That's why I do. What's your most prized possession? Prize possession. I would say since we've been talking a lot about baseball, you know, something that I never thought that I would get is we bought two affiliates from the Texas Rangers and last year the Rangers won the World Series and they presented Peter Fruind, our CEO and me with the World Series ring. So I have a Texas Rangers World Series ring sitting just to my right here, which is very special. If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Well, if you turn it on today, you would hear Brett Young because I played golf with Brett earlier and I'm going to his concert tonight. You know, I have a very broad music repertoire. I go from Broadway to country to to 70s to rock. You know, I love Drew and Ellie Holcomb are two of my favorites. I know you know them very well and and then Eagles would be the other, but but today it's Brett Young. What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss? You know, take an hour to just read, you know, whatever it is. You know, I love to do that in the in the client of the morning. It's usually between six and seven every morning and it 's a great way to start the day. Absolutely. And we're out of the lightning round. I just got a couple more questions for you. Now, now you and your fantastic wife, Alice Ann, you have three kids. You know, what's a what's a leadership lesson from home that's influenced the way you lead in business? You know, Alice Ann is we will celebrate our 39th anniversary in June of this year, which is which is amazing. And you know, she she is my partner, best friend and biggest cheerleader. And you know, I've just learned so much about, you know, life from her. I don't know that I can give you a specific David, but you know, I learned from the kids every day, you know, just just watching them. I mean, everything to me is about watching them grow and be happy and be successful and and I'm just so proud of all three of them. And you know, when all else fails, you know, a good friend of both of ours, Craig Heatley, you know, always talked about, you know, it's about family, friends and experiences at the end of the day. And you know, I think the thing that Alice Ann and the kids and the grandkids have taught me is that's really all that matters at the end of the day. You know, it just keeps it in perspective. It keeps you humble. And you know, everything that we do for for business and everything else at the end of the day, it's really about your family and friends. And it just helps to keep it in perspective. Last question here, Pat, you know, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? You know, we've talked about a lot. One thing that I haven't mentioned that that I think is just so important, I think it's just a, you know, a thirst to learn. You know, I think about people like, you know, George Roberts and Sam Reeves and others that, you know, have been great mentors to me. Those guys have it all. And yet when you're around them, all they do is ask questions. And they just, they just want to learn in every situation. And I think that, you know, I would say curiosity and optimism always, always think that the glass is half full. Well, Pat, you walk the talk on all this and congratulations on, you know, building such great businesses that you've built. And I know the best is ahead for you. What's your unfinished business? You have any? I don't know that I have any unfinished business. You know, life right now is just so, it's just great. I mean, you know, the family's great, you know, really enjoy. I mean, the thing about this business at DBH that I've really enjoyed is doing business with friends. And, you know, I think when you can combine that, if you can get to the point where, you know, friends and business and you're working together and trying to accomplish, you know, those goals together, I think that is a great thing. And I feel very fortunate to be in that case right now. So I don't know about unfinished business, but I just want to just want to keep going, stay motivated, never rest on your laurels and just keep it going. Well, Pat, I want to thank you. And I also want to thank Alice Ann for your friendship. You guys both mean a lot to me. And it means a lot to me that you take the time to come on to the show. I appreciate you, buddy. Well, it's easy to see why Jerry's Pat is a friend. No matter the challenge, he works through it with humility, optimism, and a belief that there's always a way forward. Now, don't get me wrong. Great leaders have to deal in reality and stay grounded with the facts, but they also have to understand the optimism that's required to expand ideas, to create win- win deals, and to help you spot opportunities that, frankly, others miss. When you have that kind of optimistic mindset, you'll see possibilities where others see roadblocks. And I'm telling you, that 's a serious competitive advantage. So how can you put this idea into action this week? We 'll take a big idea challenge you're facing and write down all the reasons why it won't work. Then flip the script, list all the reasons that it will work. Train your mind to look for those possibilities, and guess what? You'll be way more likely to find them. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know that optimism is a competitive advantage. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I may get a point to give you something simple on each and every episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be.