My whole world, I feel like, is built on relationships. And I think your reputation is the most important thing you have in the world. Let's protect that every single day. Welcome to Howl Leaders Lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the best leaders in the world to help you become the very best leader that you can be. My guest today is Frank Edwards. He is the managing partner of Aqueduct Capital Group, a firm that helps investment managers raise the capital they need to grow. You know, people say that success comes down to who you know. But after this episode, you'll see it's not just who you know, it's how you treat those that you know. And if you want success for the long haul, you can't take your relationships for granted. It takes effort. You've got a value and respect and recognize people you work with. That's how you create long lasting partnerships and a reputation you can be proud of. And let me tell you, I've known Frank for a long time and nobody models it better. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Frank Edwards. You know, you got a nickname, D-Dog. You got to tell me, where in the hell did you get the name D-Dog from? David, I've had it my whole life. I grew up in the eastern part of North Carolina in a very, very small town called Roanoke Rapids. And people in the eastern part of the state are very lazy in their speech. And rather than saying this, that, them, and those, they'll say, "distat, dim and does." And my sisters were 16, 13 when I was born. And what I would look through the window at me and he said, "Oh my God, he looks just like a hot dog." And somebody said, "The dog." And it got to be D-Dog. And it's been that way my whole life. My mother called me that. Well, you're one of the world's great guys. And you got a great, well-deserved nickname. And everybody calls you. Everybody loves you. You know, and you and I go way back. So this is going to be a lot of fun for me. And, you know, I know firsthand that you're a hell of a leader and a tremendous relationship builder. But before we get into all of that, you know, let's start at the beginning. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you are today? It was probably like my first kind of entrepreneurial experience. I was at the University of North Carolina. I was playing golf. I was at the training table one night. And somebody came along and said, "Hey, there's this presentation for the Southwestern Company," which was a company in Nashville, Tennessee that sold people know it. They sold books and bottles and all that kind of stuff. And they had a program through the NCAA that you learn how to sell fire extingu ishers. And you go to a five-day training school out in Nashville, and then they set you on your way, and you go knock on doors and you sell fire extinguishers. And I probably learned more about myself and how to sell in that first summer. I ended up doing it for three summers. But I learned more that first summer about how to sell and rejection than it kind of shaped me for the rest of my career. Yeah, I love that. You know what? Early on in my career, I sold encyclopedias and pots of pans. So I could relate to that. So tell us a story about when you got rejected and how you handle it when you were knocking on those doors. David, I've got way too many stories here. But I got rejected a whole lot. And the way they taught you to do it was you went in and this was all around Halon 1211 and 1301. Same thing they used in the space shuttle and they used an aircraft today. And you would go in and you'd build like a little, you were trying to simulate a grease fire. And it was a little pan that they gave you and you put it out. And I mean, I had more mistakes where I'd catch something else on fire and in the house and I'd have to put it out. And I had people go through my whole sales pitch and they'd say, I really don't need any fire extinguishers. And you just got to deal with all kinds of different people and personalities. And you just learn a ton. And it was fabulous for me. That's great. And so you go to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. You're in the South. Do you need that Southern hospitality stuff that you haven 't grown up? Is that something that you carried over into your leadership style? For sure. I'd say I really learned that from my parents early on. My mother was , and my dad, were extremely focused on manners. It was yes ma'am and no ma'am and yes sir and no sir. A lady gets up from the table. You stand up, you pull out her chair for. My mother was a stickler about that kind of stuff. It certainly helped shape me and have tried to pass that along to our children as well. You grow up in the South and end up going to New York and you're in this country world of investment banking. What took you there Frank? How did you get to New York? What got you into investment banking? I had a very close family friend that almost like a godfather kind of figure to me that was really close friends with my mom. His name was Billy Armfield. He was the one that got me to go to Woodbury to begin with. He convinced me to go to North Carolina. And then one day I was playing golf with him in Greensboro. And he said, you really ought to think about trying to do a summer internship in New York. And I called him Uncle Whitey. I said, "I don't know anybody. I've been in New York once in my life." The very next day I was in the undergraduate business program at Chapel Hill. And my finance professor who I'd played a lot of golf with, he'd been at Chemical Bank for 33 years. He'd retired to the governor's club there in Chapel Hill. He said the exact same thing to me . I mean like within a 24-hour period, you ought to think about going to New York. And I'm like, I don't know anything about New York. I don't know the first person to reach out to or anything. Anyway, both these gentlemen gave me some direction and gave me some people to reach out to, which I did. I ended up going up in interviewing. And I was fortunate enough to get a spot for the summer at Morgan Stanley. I worked in their high net worth group. And I mean, David, I didn't know the difference between a stock and a bond. I mean, I was a sponge trying to learn as much as I could. And I basically walked around with a yellow legal pad all summer. And I wrote down every question that I didn't know the answer to, which was a lot. And I had a few people that really stepped up for me and would answer all those questions for me at the end of the day. And it was just a tremendous experience. So you spend 11 years at Morgan Stanley, a fantastic firm, and you were leading one of the largest private client teams. What you do, Frank, that as a leader that really differentiated yourself, and when you look back, and I know you're a humble guy, but if you had to brag on yourself a little bit, what was it that you had that helped you climb up in that kind of rough and tumble world, where you're dealing with a lot of smart people? Well, I definitely was at the smartest. I think that was probably one of the biggest things about Morgan Stanley is that you felt like you always had the best, the best on the other end of the phone. And you're always learning. You felt like you were learning, certainly from a product and service perspective, you were learning from the best. And that gave you the confidence to go out there and put that in front of other people. I think it's a big part of that is listening and trying to understand what somebody needs and how you can best provide for or service that client. And so I always tried to do a whole lot of listening, but also think it's about you got to build a team internally, and you got to establish yourself and build respect internally to be able to get things done in a firm like that. And it was as much about building relationships internally as it was externally . You know, Frank, I've heard you say that, you know, and I'll quote you here, you have heard you say, all we have in this world is our reputation, and you wake up every day defending it. Say more. My whole world, I feel like is built on relationships. And I think your reputation is the most important thing you have in the world. And I do wake up and think about how, you know, let's protect that every single day. And I talked to everybody in our firm about that, that, you know, when it comes to writing an email, when it comes to sending a text, when it comes to talking to somebody on the phone, don't say or put in print or do anything that you don't want to be on the cover of the Wall Street Journal. I just think that's really important in the way you relate to people and how you continue to build these relationships. You know, tell me a story if you have one where you felt like, you know, your reputation might have been at risk. I mean, where you really were kind of putting the pickle when you thought about, you know, the options that you have. Do you have any like that? I do where I've been, I've been challenged by a situation and had to have legal counsel get involved. And the biggest thing that bothered me about the whole thing was, you know, my integrity was questioned and had to spend about seven or eight months going through a legal process defending that it wasn't the money, it wasn't the time. It was just the fact that somebody was questioning that it really, really bothered me. How did you get yourself up during that period? I mean, because here you are, the thing that matters most to you is being attacked. You got to get the lawyers. You're not focused on your clients at that time. You know, when you're in with them, you're just trying to protect yourself and the, you know, who you are. What did you do to get yourself up off the floor and, you know, stay positive because you're a hell of a positive guy. You got to have a really, really strong, I think in order to be a great leader and to lead people, you've got to have a tremendous life partner. And I am incredibly fortunate that I am married to my best friend in the world. And she understands me so well and can read me without, I don't even have to open my mouth. And she can tell me, you know, how I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. And we've been married for 25 years. We've been together 31 years. And throughout that process, she was an incredible supporter and a great motivator. I give her a tremendous amount of credit. All the hard stuff that I've been through in business or just in life, she's been an amazing partner. That's fantastic. And, you know, I know you walked the talk on that because you've talked about her many times. And that's great that you share that. You know, you are so intentional about building relationships and serving your clients. Give us two or three bits of advice. You'd have the leaders who do want to do the exact same thing. You know, David, I think you have to be really passionate about what you do. You got to wake up. And I mean, you got to you got to surround yourself by very competent people and that have a similar goal. And you've got to think about how you're going to inspire them to go out and fight the fight every single day. You got to give them the tools to be able to do that. And you got to support them. And again, going back to what you're asking me about Morgan Stanley, I think, you know, having really strong relationships internally is as important as externally. And you want to give everybody that goes out there in battles with you on a daily basis. You want to give them that support. But you also want to give them the confidence to go out and project and so and again, protect that reputation of the firm and continue to build it. You want all those people that work with you and there's nobody in the world better at this than you. From a recognition standpoint and recognizing people and wanting them to go to battle with you on a daily basis and be in the ditch with you when things aren't the best. That's what it's all about. And when things are good, that's it's even that much better. Hey, everyone, it's Kula from How Leaders Lead. And we have a brand new playlist available in the How Leaders Lead app. And I want to tell you about it. It's all about how you can fuel yourself up to show up in the very best way as a leader. The playlist is called Wellness and the Workplace. And it'll inspire you to do the things that you need to do on a daily basis so that you show up mentally sharp, physically sharp, and emotionally sharp, and so that you can lead your people in the way that they deserve to be led. Grab access to the playlist. You can either click this link or download the How Leaders Lead app, tap playlists, and listen to the Wellness and the Workplace playlist. You can literally just listen to it like you would a Spotify playlist tapping the first track and then letting it play all the way through. I hope this playlist will inspire you to do those things that you know, fuel yourself, and fill your cup so that you can show up in the very best way for your people. Get access to this playlist today. Well, Frank, you had an impressive career at Morgan Stanley. But in 2001, it took a huge leap. You left after 11 years to start your own firm. Walk me through that decision. And what gave you the confidence? What gave you the confidence to step out there and jump into that prior patch? Knowing what I know now, I questioned myself as well. But at the time, Morgan Stanley had merged with Dean Whitter just in the late '90s. And being in that had net worth group, that was a very tough merger. We were about 250 people worldwide within that group, within the firm. And all of a sudden, we merged with Dean Whitter and they had 11,000 brokers that it was a very different culture. And I just thought it was going to be now, it's turned out to be a great situation for Morgan Stanley, if you fast forward to today, with the way they built that business. However, at the time, I thought that that was going to be a pretty tough road. And I had an idea with my partner from Morgan Stanley, Chris Clark, another guy named John Duryay, who had come from Goldman Sachs. We were going out to start a long short equity hedge fund focused on consumer-related areas. And my role was putting together and raised the capitol for it. We had a discretionary money management business within our group at Morgan Stanley. Obviously, had some conversations with those clients about supporting us in that endeavor. And so we left Morgan Stanley the first week of July, 2001. And we were planning to start October 1st. This little event called 9/11 happened in the middle. And we started with about 10% of the capitol that we had originally planned. I can only tell you that I laid in bed and didn't get a whole lot of sleep, staring at the ceiling thinking, "Okay, I've just walked away from being in Morgan Stanley for almost 11 years. And I have a child and married and here I am with a business that is not in a position that we thought it was going to be." So what do you do, Frank? You put your head down and you work hard and you try to figure it out. And again, you got to have that support system around you. As I mentioned, Catherine, before, she was just an amazing partner throughout that whole process. Never put any pressure on me to do anything. We were living in New York at the time. We made the decision that we were going to move to Charlotte, where we were going to put roots down as a family. And I told her I would go anywhere as long as I had a good airport. And that's what we did. And so I had a lot of conversations. But I had one incredibly close friend that's been an unbelievable mentor to me that you know him very well. His name is Bobby Long. And I'll never get out sitting in my office in New York. And he called me on the phone. He said, "You don't sound exactly right." Long story short, he said, " Why don't you fly down here and have dinner with me tonight?" And I did. I left and I went to Wilmington and spent the night with him. I had dinner. And he said, "Tell me what you're thinking." And those conversations continued. And finally, a few months later, one of the ideas I had was, obviously, I'd gone out to represent one fund and raise capital for that one fund. And the idea was, let's go put together a platform that I could represent multiple managers simultaneously rather than just one. Bobby was an incredible support system, if you will, not to mention my original capital to get started. We ended up starting that platform in November of 2003. And then, you know, what led you to move from that and found aqueduct in 2006? We started it as alpha link partners. The idea was finding managers that create alpha and putting them together with investors . In January of 2006, we were fortunate enough to do a partnership with a group in New York called Reservoir Capital. It was Dan Stern and Craig Huff. Dan and Craig had started the Ziff Family Office, and then they started Reservoir. They were absolutely amazing, amazing partners. And they wanted a name of the firm that a little more closely aligned with their name Reservoir. And that's where we came up with aqueduct. What was the breakthrough idea for this business? Why did you think you could make this one go? It was the same strategy. Same business model was alpha link. But what we did when we did the partnership with Reservoir, we basically had stopped. We didn't focus really on the hedge fund side of the business anymore. It was mainly more in the private equity and private credit arena. Reservoir had had such an amazing record. They'd been had such a great offer talent in not only seating managers, but investing in managers. And really, we really wanted to tap into that resource, which is what we did. They had seeded Danny Ockett, Oxif, SAB, Anchorage. They just had an amazing, offer talent. And they really gave us tremendous credibility in the marketplace . And that was a tremendous breakthrough for us. That was in January of 2006. And your business, the manager's key, right? So basically, we're looking, we're going out there and trying to find managers that have a repeatable model and can deliver year after year and with consistency and a team. And that's obviously hard to find. But yet, we want to go identify those managers that we can partner with, put our name alongside them and go out and raise their cap reform. And typically, that's been doing fund two, fund three, fund four. We're doing a fund 11 right now. But it's typically in managers that have a specialty in one area or another. We're going to go out and raise that cap reform. We're going to insurance companies, RAs, pension plans, both corporate and state, multi-family office platforms, family offices. We're really typically, usually trying to raise somewhere in the $250 to $900 million per manager. You're now known for having that incredible eye for talent. I mean, you're known in the industry for a guy who can pick those managers. What are the big traits you look for and the process you use to really figure out if they're right to link up to? I feel like I have a good eye for people's character and how they're going to be as people. But I have a wonderful partner in a gentleman by the name of Juan Chateverdi that runs all of our sourcing and due diligence team. He's supported by several other bike rivers internally and several people on their team that do that for us. When they need our input, they bring us in. And then, when Juan boils down that list, he's seen 300 managers a year. And he boils that down to a list of probably 25 to 30. And when he gets down to 15 to 20, we all get involved and fond to see what is the right strategy and the right personality fit. Because we really look at this as a marriage with these managers. These are typically 10-year partnerships. You spend an awful lot of time with these general partners, not to mention you're usually investing your own capital with them as well. Frank, I don't think I'm doing anything that isn't wide open and I don't think it's confidential. But I want to just walk through an example of how you cultivate a business and grow it. First of all, starting out with Yum Brands. Yum Brands, I get a call from you. And what do you say to me? Well, is it okay for me to talk about a real situation? Yeah, absolutely. That's what I want. We partnered with a group about three years ago called Monarch that's based down in Atlanta. Incredible at what they do. They are basically dealing in the tax equity arena. What that translates to is you're going out to identify really fortune 100 and fortune 500 companies that have a significant tax liability, federal tax liability. And what Monarch does through low-income housing and solar and things like that, they are helping them with that liability. You're really doing a tremendous service to these companies because this is a new thing out there. And Monarch has been amazing partners, but I reached out to you. I know you were obviously running Yum, but I know you're still heavily, still very much involved. And typically, I just look for a way to get to either the person that is leading tax or is the CFO in the company. And I just have an initial conversation with them to walk them through what we're doing and trying to educate them and see if there might be a fit there. Yeah, I remember you saying, "Hey, David, if you could just kind of open up the door for me with somebody, not asking for anything else there, just open up the door." So you get in the door, you make a sale, right? We try to close all the time. Yeah, okay. So you make this up now. Here's another thing that I thought was very instructional. Once you made that sale, you got back to me. You came back to me and talk about that process because I'm sure I'm not the only guy you've ever done that. I was a guy who opened up a door for you, was not involved at all, okay, in the sale or anything else. It's all about the relationship. You were kind enough to vouch for me. You put your neck out on the line for me. That is, I wouldn't have had a warm call at young by any means had it not been for you reaching out and vouching for me. And therefore, I want you to know exactly how that process takes place. I want you to know if it ends in a great way or not a good way or I want you to know the result. I want to close the loop there and keep you up on the process because I want you to know how much I appreciate you doing that for me. And again, that's all part of that relationship. That was very impressive because it's something that you kind of take for granted, Frank. But I don't think I've ever had anybody do that with BMO opening up a door from the outside or whatever like that. And I wasn't expecting it, but it came out of the blue. But if I ever had a chance to vouch for you and your business and your ability to impact a client, I would certainly do it. So I thought that was really instructional. So you're kind. I appreciate that. So you go out and you obviously you have your current clients and then you try to bring on new ones. When you think about your business, do you see your model being more taking your existing clients and growing them? Or how much is getting new business and new clients really drive your business? We're always looking for new clients. However, we have also found that we've grown more by doing more with our current clients. We've been very fortunate over the last couple years built a great following down in Australia. You know my business partner, Steve Lessing, really well, he has done just an unbelievable job in building out Australia for us. And again, that's a very, very relationship focused place. And Steve has really put in the time and spent a lot of time down there over the last, you know, call it eight or nine years. And it, we didn't do any business in Australia for about four years, but we kept fighting the fight and we knew it would eventually come. And it's turned out to be a really very significant part of our business today. And again, it's extremely relationship oriented. And it's been great for us. A lot of entrepreneurs like yourself, you start your business, you start achieving success, and then you really try to scale it and grow like crazy. Has there ever been a time, Franklin, where you felt like you were getting ahead of your skis? And then how did you work your way through that? I've definitely had periods where I had ideas that I thought would give us more scale. And it's really, David, it's really boiled down to the people. You got to bring the right people on as partners internally. And you got to partner for us, you got to partner with the right people externally. There have been situations where we have, we've hired the wrong people, and it hasn't worked out well. And that's a tough thing to unwind in our arena, because when you bring somebody on, it takes at least 12 to 18 months for somebody to really get up to speed, get their feet under them and start producing. If it's not working , you're 18 to 24 months into this thing, and it's tough to unwind. And I've certainly made a ton of mistakes. You learn a whole lot more from your mistakes than you do your wins. And I think we've gotten a lot better at that process now. I think we're very calculated about how we go about expanding. We're up to about 20 people in the firm now. And I think we 've grown it in a very methodical way. And again, I just think we're better at it now than we were before. So now your team is spread out all over the country. As I understand, you got offices in Charlotte, New York, LA, Palm Beach, Austin, Chicago, DC, Australia. How does that model give you a competitive advantage? We really have a couple. We have a critical mass in Charlotte, and we have quite a few in New York, Poin, Chateverity, and is based in LA. But we have a salesperson in Austin. A salesperson, Kevin Magner is in Chicago, Scott Lemons in DC. Stevie is down in Florida. But I think having people in those respective markets is incredibly beneficial to us. A lot of our competitors don't do it that way. But I think living and being in the market gives you a real competitive edge. Again, I think it goes back to the relationships and being in markets that you are going to focus on and being able to be involved in the communities socially from a philanthropic perspective. I think it really helps you a lot. How do you think about culture? Is this something you spend a lot of time on, Frank, or is this just something that you guys just take for granted? Tremendous. You can't take it for granted, and you got to work on it constantly. I think a big part of our culture is, quite honestly, David, I've learned from when I've read your first book talking about recognition and how I don't care whether it's a person that is running a deal team or it's a salesperson that's just made a big sale or it is a junior person that is learning how to do X. Just recognizing for that, recognizing them for that. People love being recognized as you know better than anybody. I think that needs to be a part of a sales culture. You want your highs to be high, but you know what you're low is to be so low. And in our world, you get a lot of rejection. But as I tell everybody, when you get told no, you're getting that much closer to a yes. No question about that. And your business now is thriving, Frank. I mean, congratulations. You've got this business. It's really starting to take off and you put the hard yards in. How do you go about prioritizing your time and when you've got a thriving growth business? Well, you're kind of say all that. I still think we have a long way to go. We've definitely got some lofty goals out there that we want to hit. I think the time that I still love the I love the relationship with our GPs. I love the relationships that we have with our limited partners as well. You know, our world, the general partners manage the money, the limited partners are investing the money. We really have two clients. They're both a client of ours and we're in the middle. I love the interaction with both of those parties. And it 's, you know, I still spend a lot of my time on that. It's been obviously a big part of it, you know, kind of managing the business with Stevie. It's a constant battle of what you're kind of spending on those between those two things. I love the sales side of it. I love interacting with people. I'd love to continue doing that more. As we've continued to grow, you're having to spend more time, you know, going out there and finding and identifying potential partners in, you know, in the private equity world and the private credit world. I love what we do. I wake up every day and I'm fired up to go get after it. And it's, I'm having as much fun now as I 've ever had, if not more. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Frank Edwards in just a moment. Talking with Frank, I'm reminded of my conversation with Chris Bevelockwa, the CEO of Simple Bed. He points out that we tend to do business with people we like and trust. And for him, that's yet another reason to invest in genuine relationships. You know, you have to really work at a relationship, like invest in it. And like you have to look somebody in the eye and you have to listen to them and you have to care about what they're saying. And so, and maybe some of this is just my personality, but I can remember when I was 23, 24 years old and I had that job at NBC and I'm making $6 an hour, I can remember intentionally sitting down and getting to know people like, where are you from? What do you do? Like, what makes you tick? You know, investing in getting to know people and having a real relationship with them. And you know, that matters. Like, I always used to say to my friend, we were always talked about writing a book called The Last Three Feet. Like, people do business with people that they like and they trust. It's not that complicated. And you sit across three feet from someone and that's how deals get made and relationships get formed. And yeah, you know, you stay in touch over the years with technology and with digital, but ultimately it's like about spending time in person. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Chris, episode 199 here on How Leaders Lead. You've obviously got a lot of unfinished business that you're going after. I know you're very focused on developing yourself as well. What do you do to sharpen your own acts? I listen to how leaders lead every Thursday afternoon when it comes out. Part of being a leader is you always got to continue to learn. As I get older, I learn how little I actually do know. I think continuing to learn and continuing to make yourself better is one of the most important things. And I think a big part of that is listening. I love being around other people and hearing their perspective, whether it's on the economy, whether it's on the markets or whether it's politically. I just, I love hearing other people's perspective. And I think if you're a really, really good listener and then translate that into your own kind of philosophy, all of that input, I think it makes you sharper. I think it makes you better. What are you working on from a technical perspective? Is there a particular skill that you're trying to get better at that you think you got to get, you know, honed if you're going to really be the kind of leader you want to be? Understanding your surroundings and learning from the people around you. And I mean, my children are, I have three boys and they're all very different, but yet they 're all similar too. And I think I learned something from them every time I'm with them. That's my favorite thing to do is spend time with them. And I think I literally learned something, as I said, from them every time I'm with them. You know, you are an active learner. You have some go -to leaders that you go to for advice. I mean, do you have your own personal board of directors in your own mind that, hey, if you got a big, you mentioned Bobby Long a little earlier. Bobby has been an amazing leader for me and mentor since the first time I met him. And David, I met Bob. We knew people in common, but I cold called Bobby out of the blue when I was at Oregon Stanley. You know, you're trying to find, you know, people to invest with you and bring assets to the firm and you're calling people and I'll never forget calling Bobby. And I told him I was going to be in Greensboro like the following Wednesday, I didn't have any intention of really being in Greensboro, but he said that he would meet with me. I'm like, really? You will? Oh, sure. Then I'm going to be in Greensboro. So I went down and met with him. And he turned out to be one of the closest friends in my life. And he's been a great, a great mentor to me ever since. But whenever I'm going to, I'm trying to make a big decision, always talk to Bobby. My actual godfather is a gentleman by the name of Tom Hughes. I've known my whole life. He was one of my dad's best, best friends and they started a business together. I called American refuse systems that he, that he ended up selling to waste management. I talked to him probably once or twice a week and he has amazing perspective. He has just a tremendous amount of common sense and great business sense. And also, Stevie's dad, Steve Lessing, big Steve, as we call him. I think he's probably one of the greatest salespeople I've ever met. I think his perspective is he's given us tremendous advice of how to operate this business, how to treat salespeople, how to run an organization. And he's one of the greatest relationship people I've ever met. Oh, he, there's nobody that's ever met him that didn't love him. And he knows how to, he knows how to make people feel so comfortable. You know, Frank, it's been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this ? We got ready to go. Okay. The three words that best describe you. Family, dedicated, loyal. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Bobby Long, your biggest pet peeve people not doing what they say they're going to do. Who would play you in a movie? Chris O'Donnell, your son is one of the top amateur golfers who's currently on the team at the UNC. Can you still take him down? No, sir. He's not, he's not at UNC yet. He's going to, he'll get there in August. But, but I have three boys that play a lot of golf and I can't beat any of them. So they're all good. That's my first problem. I've played them. They're very good. One of the top three courses to play in North Carolina. Quill Hollow, Pinehurst number two, Charlotte Country Club. What's your favorite part about the South? The people, the culture, the respect. The one thing you do just for you. Exercise. Your most prized possession beside your family. Friends, my relationships. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear 70s on 70. What's something about you a few people would know? I love to fly. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss? The cold plunge in the morning. I'm thinking about getting one of those. I hear it's pretty good. We're out of the light, you mean? Great job. Just a few more questions. We'll wrap this up, dog. We just talked a little bit about your family. How do you take all of what you know about leading a business and apply that to home? It's about leading by example. It's listening. It's being understanding, providing a map for these little guys that will allow them to develop into their own, have their own personality and be the best that they can be. So when you wake up now and you go to work, what's the thing that's got you most pumped up? I'm always focused on what's our next opportunity? How do we continue to excel in what we're doing right now? And how can we do the very best job for both our GPs and our LPs? What can I do to put them all in the best light? When you think about your unfinished business as a leader, what would it be? David, I go back to my children. I want to always be there for them. I always want to be that listening source to them that can provide advice and hopefully when they have the different dilemmas in life, whether it's in school with relationships, with their first job or whatever it is, I want to be there for them and make sure that I support them in every way I possibly can. And hopefully, I've had a similar experience and I can tell them not only what to do, but what not to do. I've had the good fortune of being with you, with your kids. And let me tell you something, Frank, when they look at you, they look at you with such admiration and love. So you're doing a heck of a job on that. And there's probably nothing that's more important than that. And you set the example on that. Last question. By the way, I don't mean to interrupt you, but you couldn't say anything to me that would mean more to me than that. I don't care. I don't care what does the success you have or what accolades you have as a it doesn't matter. That is the most important thing in the world. Absolutely. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? All good leaders have a vision and they have a short-term vision and they have a long-term vision. And you've got to provide that roadmap for them, for the people that you have surrounded yourself by. You've got to lead by example and provide the components to give them the opportunity to go to that next level. To let those people continue to grow and continue to expand within your organization, I think that you got to bring people along with you. And when you're trying to make decisions, let them in on the whole process and let them be a part of making the decision because when you actually make it and it's going to take everybody in the firm to go and deliver on that message, if they are a part of that message being created, then they're going to go in and fight like warriors. And I think that's a big part of it. Bring people along with you and let them be a part of that decision-making process. Fantastic, Frank. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on this this show. We've been talking about doing this for quite a while because I've always admired your leadership and how you are as a person. And you're the real deal and appreciate you very much. David, I can't thank you enough for having me. I'm right there with you. I've admired you for a long, long time. I've always admired you and how you carry yourself and what you represent and what you stand for. And I really, really appreciate you having me. I'm so glad you got to spend some time with Frank. It doesn't surprise me, but I'm really struck by how many friends, colleagues, and partners Frank mentions in this conversation. And listen, that's not a tactic. That's just who he is. He's somebody who cares about the people he works with and is quick to recognize their role and his own success. He doesn't treat relationships as a way to get ahead. For him, it's the point of it all. And that's exactly why people trust him and want to work with him and give him their business. Now, look, I bet you've got to Frank in your own life, somebody who is great at building genuine relationships and partnerships. Got him in mind? All right. Now, take a moment and think about how they interact with you and what they specifically do to create that connection. Learn from their example in your own life and then try to apply some of those ideas for yourself. That kind of intention sticks with people and it speaks louder than anything else. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know that relationships are earned, not assumed. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Ed Bastian, CEO of Delta Airlines. The accolades are nice, but totally irrelevant. It's really what you do today and tomorrow. That matters. And you got to go out and prove it and do it better every single day. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast so you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be.