Greg Johnson 0:00 

Ownership is so important to everything that any employee does, and you're not going to keep people if one, they don't feel like they can control their destiny, and two, if they don't feel like they're going to have opportunitiesto grow. 

David Novak 0:17 

to

You ever wonder why sometimes the smartest people just aren't performing at the highest level that they can Well, stick with me. You might just find out why. Welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader that you can be. My guest today is Greg Johnson. He's the Executive Chairman of Franklin Templeton, which is a global investment firm that manages more than one and a half trillion dollars in assets. He's also the principal owner of the San Francisco Giants, who happened to be off to a great start this year. And in both roles, Greg leads with trust to make sure that the smartest people in his organization can perform at the highest level. He believes people do their best work when they're given real ownership over their decisions and opportunities. So many leaders think that they've got to keep their people on a short lease and retain control. But when you listen to Greg, you realize, if you want to build empowered teams and keep your best people, you gotta let go and let them take ownership. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, 

Greg Johnson,you've got the quite the stadium in San Francisco. I got to ask you, if you ever kayaked out into McCovey Cove and tried to catch a home run ball yourself? 

Greg Johnson 1:49 

Well, I can honestly say I have not done that, but maybe that's on the to do list of things I need to do. Be kind of fun out there. It looks like you get some nice days hanging out. 

David Novak 1:58 

Yeah, it looks like it's a blast. They're having fun going after it. And I know for you, it's always better when that home runs a San Francisco

Greg Johnson 2:07 

certainly helps.

David Novak 2:09 

Tell me a story, Greg about the best part of being a baseball owner. 

Greg Johnson 2:14 

Well, you know, I think for me, it's just having been a giant sports fan my whole life and followed all sports. And then, you know, as our family got more involved with the Giants, just day to day, following them a bit more. It's, it's, it's different, because it's such an emotional, you know, game that you you every win and loss becomes so large. I think somebody said it best when they said that you kind of almost expect to win every game, but if you lose the game, you're kind of suffering despair until the next one. And I think that drives my wife crazy and says you can't follow everyone, but it is just emotional to do it. You get so attached to it, but so much fun. You know, for me right now, at this stage of my life, how many games would you go to a year? Well, I go to every game when I'm home, and that's probably around 30, you know, almost, you know, close to half the games I'll go to them. I travel a lot, but when I'm when I'm there, but I think I with MLB TV and the streaming now, I watch every game live, no matter where I am and what I'm doing. And that's not made my wife very happy.

David Novak 3:23 

What's your process to set new goals heading into each season with your leadership team? Yeah,

Greg Johnson 3:29 

I think it's hard. I mean, I think I try to apply the same approach I had in, you know, all my years at Franklin, but I think baseball is a little bit different where, you know, when you're Chairman, I mean, I have baseball operations, the president reporting to me, and then I have the business side reporting to me. And they're two really very different things, you know, to come in and say, I have to win X number of games and define that as success, I think is not very fair to me. It's really about, like everything in business. I worry more about just making sure we got the right people in the right jobs and with the right amount of resources. And baseball is very different, because there's so many things that are so hard to measure. Where you know, you come from, the business side, you know, I can have specific business goals for the business, business operations, like you would at Franklin, Templeton. You know, where you say, here, the x budget, we want attendance here, you know, you have a lot of metrics. You can measure them day by day. On the baseball side, it's, it's a little bit harder, and then you couple that with injuries and things. It's, it's a bit tricky. You have to set goals on the business side, we do that just like I would, but on the base. On the pure baseball side, it's a little bit more more difficult to measure.

David Novak 4:42 

How do you go through just the process of assessing people? I'm sure you have to do that every year. Look at your team strengths, weaknesses. How do you how do you look at that and just the team that you have to to lead them? I

Greg Johnson 4:53 

say again, the difference between Franklin Templeton is you have massive feedback on everyone on a daily basis. Social media. So you have, yeah, and you have very smart people that follow the team, you know, really great writers for the athletic and I just spend my mornings reading through every one of them. I try not to do too much of the social media Twitter, but, but there are a lot of very smart people that follow the Giants and have great insights and opinions. And, you know, like I did at Franklin, I try to network with those and build relationships with those, and build trust with those where you can use them. It's almost like having your McKinsey group for free to talk to about the team, the you know, the mix and and really the coaching staff too. And I think a big part of what I think about is like you would again at any organization, is is the tension of analytics versus intuition, and trying to balance those two. And that's really very important. From my perspective, you have kind of an arms race with analytics. It seems like we approach everything with well, six to eight teams have this, so we better get it. And then if you say, Well, how do I know if this is going to work? I don't really get any kind of answer to that, and we continue to spend a lot on that, and that's one area that I try to balance. And then just the analytics side, which I'm sure you've heard about, that just gone so far, it almost takes the manager out of the role of managing games day to day. So that's something we try to look at and try to balance, and just how the human element sometimes gets lost with analytics that you bounce players around up and down too much. You know, at the end of the day, there are people out there and they're battling and they're doing the hardest thing in the world, and that's hitting the baseball. So to me, it's really getting that right mix and balance between your old school and your new school analytics. And I feel pretty good about, you know, where we are this year, and doing that, how

David Novak 6:40 

do you bring the intuition into play? Because you're right. I mean, I've read a lot about it. People have told me about it. The analytics are so clear you don't even think you necessarily need a manager just do X. But the intuition part has a lot to do with the success of any team. No,

Greg Johnson 6:56 

you think about it. I mean, a manager is there day to day with the players. He knows what's going on in their heads. He knows where they are. Are, you know, are they in a little bit of slump where the analytics person may be just looking at it strictly from statistics? And if you look at even our team over the last few years, we really relied heavily on analytics, and things like the bunt were completely taken out. They weren't, you know, they weren't even working on bunting in the minor leagues, because the analytics said you don't give up and out with a bunt, but, but when you watch a lot of games, and you have a manager that sees games, and you're in a tight pitching battle where you're not going to probably beat this pitcher, and you get a runner on one way or another, that may be a good time to consider a bunt, but if you haven't worked on Bunce all year, you may be frustrated that person can't get the bunt down. So that's just one example of, to me, where the game went a little bit too far one way, and saying, you know, I just think there's certain situations, and that's something we talk a lot about, is situational baseball being ready to adapt to whatever's happening out on the field. And I don't think we were as good at good at doing that in the past few years as we will be this year. You know, one of

David Novak 8:00 

the things I've always admired about you, Greg, is that you're very straightforward. You take feedback well, you're looking to get better all the time. You mentioned just the social media and all the experts out there. Have you found that you've had to develop a thicker skin through this whole process? And how do you handle the criticism? Well,

Greg Johnson 8:21 

I think you just one. You have to accept that that comes with the with the job. You know, that's just part of sports. And I always look at it a different way, and say, if they weren't as passionate and critical, boy, we'd be losing a very engaged fan. So let them be very critical. Somebody said, What's the difference between, you know, being a CEO at Franklin Templeton and this? I said, Well, I didn't get death threats as death threats as a CEO at Franklin. So it can get a little crazy at times. And

David Novak 8:49 

you know, as the owner, you've mentioned, you have great people around you, and just, you know, making sure you do is a key thing, you know, but as an owner, how, what's your involvement in how the club makes decisions. Will you give me one of those stories where you get involved?

Greg Johnson 9:04 

Well, I think where I get involved, I mean, obviously, is just the senior management side. I mean, I look at this role as something in between what I was as a CEO and a chairman, where a typical chairman is not gonna be involved in the day to day, but at the end of the day, I don't look at myself 100% as a CEO, either, even though I do have the two groups reporting to me, because they are so different, and they're 100% accountable. And you know, our person leading the business side has been doing it a long time, and we have a lot of confidence in that person, so I so I don't find that the day to day, I could be as involved as I want. I get very involved in certain parts free agents. That would be an area where I'm going to meet with the free agent, especially the higher profile ones. Sell them on our story. Be a part, be helpful in any way I can. But at the end of the day to me. So accountability is the key to any successful organization. And if I'm in there leaning in on decisions that are going to be should we sign this person or that person? You know, it's going to be hard for me to hold that person accountable. So I look at it more, almost leaning more towards a Chairman's role than I would. You know, a typical CEO, as far as the day to day decision making goes, you know,

David Novak 10:23 

Larry bossity, the great chief executive, one of the best of all time at the same where he says, you take the joy of the job away, when you take the joy of the decision away, you know, how do you, how do you drive that, that sense of, you know, making the decision and your accountability. How do you drive that in the organization?

Greg Johnson 10:45 

Well, I think it's how you react, because you because, let's, I think the natural thing is for first, for a business head to kind of cover their decision in a way, right by bringing you in and saying, Well, you know, I think maybe we should do this, but here's the downside and here's the problem, and they're kind of throwing it on your lap, and I would throw it back. I'd ask the questions I want to ask, and then I'm going to say, Well, what's your decision? Now, if it was something that I felt was completely off base, you know, I'd probably, you know, push back a little bit, but at the end of the day, I think I want them to make a more informed, better decision. I'm going to ask questions, you know, that I think are relevant to that process, but I'm not going to be the one ultimately, that overrides somebody who is got a much better level of experience than I do. And again, I'm not a sports expert. I'm somebody who came up on the business side, who's who's now been involved, and I tried to apply the things I learned at Franklin Templeton, you know, in 35 years, to baseball. And to me, it's really about measuring and getting feedback on decisions, because I think that gets lost in sports a little bit. It's just, well, they're doing it, so we're doing it, and we got to continue to spend, spend, spend in this way, without saying, Okay, if we, if we buy that new technology, tell me what it's going to do, and how are we going to measure it? I think that's where I kind of probably get more involved and change how we have done things in the past.

David Novak 12:14 

You know, I remember talking to Commissioner Rob Manfred on on this podcast about the Major League Baseball owners meeting. It's really tough. You got 30 powerful people in the room there. You know, what's one of your more memorable stories from a discussion in those rooms? In that room, if you don't mind sharing it, if

Greg Johnson 12:35 

I don't mind sharing, you're going to get me in trouble here, Dave, you know, I It's also been very interesting. I think, you know, the owners meeting, you really have, you know, as far as backgrounds, and you've got people that are hedge fund operators, private equity families that have generational families that have owned teams for a long time. And so you get a very different viewpoints. But I'd say overall, you know, fairly, fairly collegial. I mean, there isn't too many battles that, you know, I can recall. I think, you know, I always say Rob's got one of the toughest jobs in the world because, you know, the disparity of revenues between the teams and and the and his mandate of, you know, and baseball's mandate of having a competitive balance creates a natural friction between the smaller market teams and the bigger market teams. And when you you know, the way we've dealt with that in the past is, is transferring monies between the large markets to the smaller market teams. So at any one given point, the commissioner has about, you know, a third to half the teams upset with them, one, that they're not getting enough and and two, that they're paying too much. So I think that's probably, the most contentious is debating those kind of topics, but overall, I'd say very collegial group that at the end of the day, just wants to have a better product out on the field and engage more fans. Hey, everyone, it's Kula from how leaders lead. And if you've watched our podcast for any number of episodes, you probably know that a common theme from all of the great leaders we interview is that they are active learners. They have this commitment to continuing to learn and grow so that they don't stay stagnant and so that they continue to see success in their leadership and in their life. This theme of active learning is so important, and it's what David's latest book, how leaders learn is all about. It's all about helping you develop that skill of active learning so that you too can continue to see success in your leadership and in your life. The book is really entertaining. It pulls stories from some of our greatest podcast guests and pairs those stories with insights that you can incorporate into your leadership and into your life right away. Grab how leaders learn on Amazon or wherever books are sold. And I think you're really going to love it. You feel David's personality through the pages and through his storytelling. And it's a really powerful way to level up your leadership

David Novak 14:50 

the Giants. I mean, my goodness. I mean, what a storied franchise you have. I mean, it's just an incredible operation. It you know how. Would you describe your culture that you have, and what are you trying to bring the culture? Maybe that wasn't there before.

Greg Johnson 15:07 

Yeah, I think the culture historically has been so strong, and the business side, especially where, where we have, most of our leaders have been there 2530, years. They've grown up with the organization. This goes back to what I was saying about earlier with analytics and people that that maybe, you know, some would say, well, we don't want to live in the past. We want to live in the future. So let's not talk about the legacy of the giants. And I think that that is something that we've changed in the last year, where we not only want to celebrate what it what we've done in the past, but we want that to be something that to hold the current players to a higher standard that you are, you know, you're putting on a logo. That means a lot to this city. It means a lot to the history of baseball, and you have to carry yourself to that standard. And I think that's something that our, you know, our new lead, Buster Posey, who's in there running baseball, believes very strongly in that, you know, we do have a unique history, and it's something we should celebrate and also hold ourselves to that higher standard.

David Novak 16:08 

You know, I can't wait to talk to you more about how you lead, Greg, but first, I want to take you back a little bit. What's a story from your childhood that really shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Greg Johnson 16:19 

I've been so fortunate to have parents that that, I would say, have always set the example every day and how they live their lives and but, but not tell me how to live mine, you know. And that that goes back to the earliest days. I was never really pushed into Franklin Templeton. It was something that was a choice, you know, that I made when I was young. But I think some of the you know, and I think back to the early days, and you know, like most adolescents, very competitive, very sports oriented, playing all sports. And I remember I was in a tennis tournament with my father, and I was probably getting a little bit too vociferous on getting upset or getting a little emotional in a match we were playing. And he very calmly pulled me aside and said, If I see anything like this again, we're walking off the court. And it just sounds like a little thing, but if you knew my father, he doesn't have to raise his voice, he didn't have to, you know he when he told you something, it meant something. And to me, that's something I've always thought about in how I lead an organization and interact with people that at the end of the day, you better keep your emotions in check, and you've got to be the cool headed presence out there. And I think when I think about, you know, there's anything I could say about myself as I don't get too wound up and in stressful such situations, I try to, I try to be that, that cool presence. And I think I owe a lot of that to just watching how my father has interacted, how he built the business with, you know, also balancing seven kids in a family, and how my mother, who married my dad before college or before finishing college, had seven kids. I said, seven siblings and then went back finished college, went to medical school and was a doctor, while balancing seven kids at home. So I said, if you can do that, you know, if those are your two examples, you're off to a pretty good start in life. Yeah,

David Novak 18:06 

I'm blessed to know both of your parents, and both of them are iconic. They definitely are. And you had to follow your, your your your father's footsteps, which is tough to do. How did you how did you do that? And was it challenging for you or, I mean, it's challenging just because of who he is, but, I mean, you know, how did you develop your own identity and get that comfort?

Greg Johnson 18:31 

You know? I think again, it goes back to, it's not always an easy thing to do, and it depends on the type of personality of that you know, person, a leader, founder that you know, can you let go of the reins and and he did that with us at a very young age where, you know, and I think the other point is that we had a business that was growing very rapidly when I jumped in in the early 80s, you know, the business was kind of taking off so that that gave a lot of opportunity to do new things. You know, have a lot of challenges, experience and opportunities, and he was always very good about not micromanaging. I'm sure he disagreed with many things that that I did, or my brother did or my sister did back then. But, you know, he had a way of just kind of rolling along and not not inter, you know, not jumping in when appropriate, being there, being always the person. You could go in his office and ask the question, but, but always had the right kind of temperament and approach in dealing with family issues? Yeah,

David Novak 19:27 

that makes a lot of sense, you know. And you know, when you when you think about the journey that that you've had and the growth that you had as a company during your tenure as CEO, what would have been the top two or three strategic decisions you made to take the company to another level.

Greg Johnson 19:44 

You know, when I when I think back of where Franklin was, and, you know, we like to refer to it as well as a 30 year overnight success. You know, 30 years of, you know, trying to meet your payroll, basically, and struggling as a small Asset Management. Firm before the mutual fund industry really took off. When it took off, you know, with money funds, 70s and then fixed income funds, we were in a really a fortunate position to, one, introduce a, one of the first money funds, and then really have the first double state tax free funds. And that's really where the business took off. I think for me, the earliest areas of impact that I had were around, you know, our 92 acquisition with Templeton, which today doesn't sound like a big deal, but back then, it was one of the largest acquisition acquisitions ever done. It wasn't something that was really done in the mutual fund industry, but because of our success in fixed income, we were about 80% fixed income, we had the opportunity to buy a global firm that was focused on international equities with a very rich history, and where I think I had the biggest impact was, was really the being ahead of marketing at that time, combining them with our sales force, repricing them, and seeing all the momentum that we got going forward from that. And then I give credit, you know, to my brother on the global side. He was very early in the 80s in building out our global franchise and and when I talked back then to our troops about, you know, being a, what we were, was still a very much a US focused retail, 40 act mutual fund company, but I didn't talk that way. We talked about the vision is to be the premier global asset management company. And I think that's so important to kind of talk about what you can be versus what you are today. And I look at today and look at how diversified Franklin Templeton is in so many different categories around the world, where we're sold in 150 countries. And big part of my life was like my brother and sister, as well as traveling to all those countries and building the relationships we had to build in places like India, Korea, Taiwan, China, just just to name a few. And you know, today, we are in a position because we did that at a time when the mutual fund industry was still doing very well in the US, and a lot of companies didn't want to make that investment of time and money and uncertainty and risk into other other areas, but we felt like for long term, that was the right move, and I think that's where I can look back on my career and feel feel the most pride.

David Novak 22:19 

Well, you certainly have made a lot of great long term moves. I mean, you got over one and a half trillion in assets today, which is just absolutely staggering when you think about, you know, going into these countries. Tell us a story about one of the countries that you entered that, you know, you're really proud of, that that wasn't necessarily an easy thing to do. The

Greg Johnson 22:42 

appreciation I always had of all that travel is, you know, we as, I think sometimes as Americans, you tend to look at Regions and say, like, oh, Asia is Asia, right? But once you're in Asia and spend a lot of time in Asia, you realize Korea, Japan, China, they're very different places with very different histories. And you know, just one of the lessons I had back then was, I think we had a Korean head at that time of that region, and then once our long term Japanese CEO got news that he was going to report to a Korean which, you know, in the US we don't really think twice about, but at that time, it was very sensitive. And it just speaks to how you have to spend time in those countries, understanding their culture, to to make sure you you put the right people in the right place and and just the, I think, the regulatory side for us. You know, one of the things that I spent a lot of time on on my trips around the world was the tone at the top, you know, that we we almost assume that people's behavior will be the same kind of behavior that that we've enjoyed at Franklin and doing the right thing for clients and not risking your reputation. But when you start companies hire new people in new regions, you have to make sure you're spending the time reinforcing those values out there, and that, that, to me, was a big part of what I did. And even even things like having sales targets, I always felt like having a sales target kind of is it almost contradicts the right behavior and the right values to making sure you're you're placing the clients first and doing the right things, as far as you know, placing funds with them. How do

David Novak 24:23 

you balance that? I mean, having sales targets versus just the whole values that you want to have in your your company?

Greg Johnson 24:30 

Well, I think they, they still have them. I just don't weigh them like as much as you know, I would, because you have to have, you've got to have those reach targets out there. But it was something I could speak to, you know, about, you know, when I was in those offices, about, you know, how that potentially can conflict and never do anything, because at the end of the day, you know, we've learned lessons too, where, if you have the wrong kind of behavior in one of your places, it could be Japan, it could be India, could be anywhere that affects the global brand of. And, you know, word travels quickly, so we just have to make sure. To me, it's the biggest risk an asset management firm has. You're built on trust, and if you make one mistake in one of your offices with somebody who may not have been there more than a year or two, that's going to affect your entire business. You're obviously

David Novak 25:16 

a great communicator. So let's put you in a situation where you're going into one of your offices and you're going to talk about the company and the challenges, you know, what's your typical approach to a communications meeting like that? And what are do you have a few points you always want to make? Well,

Greg Johnson 25:37 

I think the point I'm always going to close with is that tone of the top point and just the culture and who are we? And, you know, it's not something you put up on the wall, right? Davis, you know, you don't, that doesn't work. You got to walk the walk and talk the talk. I go into those meetings, and I try to give them some insights and what, you know, what are we thinking about back in the home office? And, you know, what are some everybody knows if there's issues over here, there challenges. But I try to go at go in with a positive message about, you know, the opportunity that we have in the unique firm that we have, and you're part of something that's different than everybody else. You know, I would start with that and make it as relevant as I can to what's happening in today's market environment, and then kind of close with the tone at the top. But you know, a positive, you know, a positive message and just a positive culture, I think is so important. You know, one of my old sayings I always use is, whether you think you can or can't, you're probably right. So why not think we can? And

David Novak 26:34 

isn't that why vision is so important? Right? Absolutely. You know, no leader bats, 1000 and I know I certainly learned the most from my failures. Do you have a story about when you maybe you made the wrong call, and how you pivoted?

Greg Johnson 26:50 

I'm sure I've made plenty of wrong calls, and I think sometimes it's around people more than anything, where you put the wrong person in a job, or, you know, I think if you left somebody too long in a position. You know that that to me is I look back on if there's any message I would have to new leaders. If you're pretty uncertain about somebody, or you just feel like you know what, they're not getting the job done, don't wait and try to fix it over a longer period. Fix it now. Fix it before. You know that would that's that's a lesson that I probably learned in some places, was just having the wrong person in there for too long and then thinking, Oh, I can coach this person out of this and generally, doesn't work. How

David Novak 27:29 

do you go about squeezing out the learnings that you get from every situation for both yourself and the team? How do you push learning? I

Greg Johnson 27:38 

mean, that's a great question, and pushing learning is probably the most important, or one of the most important parts of building a winning organization. And you know, it starts to me with the type of people that you're going to attract and hire, curious people, people that ask questions, people with energy. And I always encourage everyone you know, don't get caught up in your silo. Reach out, go, go invite somebody to lunch from from accounting, and you're in sales, or just wherever that. That's just one one example, but I think it makes a stronger organization. And in the other you know, is just about how senior management looks at talent and evaluates talent. And you have to spend time sitting in a room with your leaders and looking at your next level and thinking about how I'm going to develop that next level. And I when I talk to employees, I used to say career paths are not obvious, and they shouldn't be obvious, and if we're doing a good job as an organization, we're going to find you so do the best. Never feel like I'm I'm at a ceiling, so I can't move out of that. It's our job to find that person do the best where you are, and you will continue to grow with the company. And I think that's important for any management team to make sure you put that time aside to evaluate your talent and then come up with action plans for them. You're known

David Novak 28:54 

for being a really outstanding strategic thinker, but we all know that you have great strategy and you don't have execution. It's useless. You know, how do you drive execution, you know, in your company and with your team?

Greg Johnson 29:07 

Well, I think it comes to just down to your planning process and how, you know, you go about the you start, obviously, we do, you know, the annual plan, and then you, you meet regularly with them and see how we're doing against that. You know, we have kind of a system of green and red flags and percentages, and that's reviewed just on kind of an ongoing basis. But you're right, the old saying that no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. So I think the other, you know, the other side is adapt and pivot and move, and sometimes people get a little bit stubborn with strategy, and you're in a dynamic business where, especially for us, where the markets, you can't control the market. So it goes back to when you I set a goal of being x large or this amount of sales, but you have, you know, a sudden downturn in this segment of the market that's not realistic to that person. I think it's just a matter of adapting and adjusting the plan. But making sure you're measuring that plan on a quarterly or monthly basis, we'll be back

David Novak 30:05 

with the rest of my conversation with Greg Johnson in just a moment. You know Greg knows how to ask great questions to help his team members make smart decisions. And if you want to master the art of incisive questions, you got to listen to my episode with Ram Charan, who is widely regarded as the most influential business consultant in the world,

Ram Charan 30:26 

there's one thing, data questions in my work with the boards, almost 100 boards now across the globe. This is one of the most critical qualities that directors have. They have this incisive questions. I actually measure them. They have less than 15 words in their question. You say, I'm a researcher, so I say, I want to see what are these incisive questions? How long are they? Less than 15 words. I said, that's a real great director who either opens your eyes or be able to create convergence of ideas? Are we able to bring some insight that nobody has it?

David Novak 31:08 

Go back and catch my entire conversation with Ram episode 200 here on how leaders lead. How do you think about the keys to retaining great people? Because your company as a retention rate, I think that's twice the twice the average of the industry. How have you made that happen?

Greg Johnson 31:26 

Well, it goes back to hiring and hiring the right kind of people with empathy, respect, and you're never going to build a team if you don't think about, how does this person interact with others. And I think if you have an environment where you build trust in an organization, you're going to keep people over time. And trust, to me, is something that is so important for any organization success where people are really going to work for the company and not just for their individual goals, it's that trust and the relationships and empathy for others that makes such a huge difference. So to me, it starts in the hiring process, but after that, at the end of the day, you've got to make sure you're continuing to give people opportunities, new responsibilities, give them the accountability and give them ownership. Ownership is so important to everything that any employee does, and you're not going to keep people if one, they don't feel like they can control their destiny, and two, if they don't feel like they're going don't feel like they're going to have opportunities to grow. So that's that's really something management always has to keep on top, top of mind. You know,

David Novak 32:29 

you somehow juggle two amazingly large jobs. How do you go about structuring your time to make sure that everything that needs to get the attention that should be getting, gets it well,

Greg Johnson 32:41 

in fairness, I think on the Franklin side, I've got a very capable younger sister who's a CEO now, and that makes it a lot easier as executive chair. And I still chair all of our fund boards and obviously the holding company, and that takes up a lot of meeting time. But at the end of the day. It's not day to day time that I have to focus on, on Franklin as much. And the baseball side, you know, I could be in there every day if I wanted to be, but I just don't think that's going to be adding a whole lot of value to the team. So I'm there as much as I need to be, and I can follow it from wherever I am. So it does give me much more flexibility. Time wise, I don't feel nearly constrained. Time wise today, as I did when I was CEO of Franklin Templeton, when I had a million things a day on the plate. And also said, Boy, I haven't visited that office in two years. I better get out there soon. And if I did that alone, and I think we're in 40 something countries now with, I don't know how many offices, that was always the challenge and and I think the lesson for again, for any leader is spend as much time think about your schedule, and scheduling and time management as something you better dedicate time to, because if you don't dedicate time to you're not going to be nearly as efficient. And I'm a big believer in lists. I think lists are so important to do every day. Just put jot those things down. What am I going to do today and do it? And that's just a great habit to get into.

David Novak 34:07 

What was the top thing on your list today? Doing this podcast?

Greg Johnson 34:11 

Yeah, getting ready for Dave's questions that he did not submit to me in advance. Where is he going with this?

David Novak 34:20 

So you know, you move from the financial industry into into baseball, what was the biggest thing? Biggest thing you had to to learn. What you know, how'd you how'd you accelerate your learning curve as a leader, making that shift,

Greg Johnson 34:33 

yeah, just like you would do in any job. I mean, the mentoring is so important, and having relationships with other owners that you have, like a terry McGurk who we know, and somebody who's been around for so long, and ask questions to those people. And the beauty of baseball, again, it's so collegial. If I call up any different owner, they're going to share their thoughts with me. And you know, it's not that same kind of competitive fire that if you called your you know, if I called a. Competitor on the financial services side that that you would get. So it's really building that broad network of people. MLB has incredible people back in New York that'll answer any question and help you at any given time, so that the network's there. It's just going out and being curious, asking the questions. And I said baseball is amazing because the amount of books that are written on statistics and everything about this game, it's probably followed more closely, because you can measure everything by people that love. Those love talking about stats. The learning curve is pretty quick, and I think I read about 15 books. There's every metric known to mankind now measuring baseball activity.

David Novak 35:38 

What are you doing now? To really sharpen your acts. How are you going about being a better leader today? Well,

Greg Johnson 35:43 

I still think, you know, reading books, and there's so much written about leadership, and I would say that again, the lesson that I've learned is you can't try to be somebody else. It's you to be authentic, to build trust. You are who you are, but you can learn things to kind of tweak who you are. I'm sure, Dave, that you probably didn't want to be known as a Steve Jobs when you retired, but Steve Jobs was a very successful leader, but that didn't that's not going to fit my style or your style in how you want to run a company. So it's just that continuous learning, reading, there's so much out there, and just mentoring and talking to others is just the best way, and also feedback from your own, your own people ask the question, How am I doing?

David Novak 36:27 

You know, whether you you were at Franklin or now or working with the Giants, how do you stay tuned to the voice of the customer, the fan and the Giants case?

Greg Johnson 36:39 

Well, I think it goes back to, it's very easy with social media to be in touch with the customer. Now, you may be getting, you know, a like social media can do amplifying a small percentage of that base, but it's, it's really just look at half, probably more than that. My good friends are all Giants fans as well. So you get pretty direct feedback on things, and people will kind of tease you on one thing or another, but it's easy to know how the fans are feeling. I think it's sometimes a little bit harder to know how the team's feeling. And that's where I kind of try to build some relationships with some of the longer term giants players, where they you know, once I have that trust, I get a pretty candid view of how things are working with the manager, with the clubhouse, with the analyst side, and when something's out of balance, that's when I'll kind of jump in. And there have been plenty of times where that's been the case.

David Novak 37:34 

We talked earlier about just the storied franchise you have. You really have a tremendous brand today when you think about the top three things you're really thinking about in terms of growing your brand, you know, what would they be at the

Greg Johnson 37:47 

end of the day, the brand you're in a competitive sports world. So the brand, we view ourselves as we should be competitive for a World Series every year, and if we're not, then maybe we're not doing everything we should be doing, and we view ourselves as stewards of that franchise, not not business owners. We're not maximizing the valuation. I tell people, I don't really care about the valuation. What we care about is, you know, winning championships for this city, because it's such a positive, you know, I think back on the three World Championships the Giants had, it was just amazing time to be in San Francisco, to be in the Bay Area. That's what we're striving to be. And I think, you know, I feel confident that we're on the right path to get there again. It'll be so great for the city of San Francisco to have the Giants, you know, back in the playoffs and competitive.

David Novak 38:37 

You know, Buster Posey, he played his entire career with the giants, and he helped you win those three World Series rings. But he's moved into the front office now, and he's in his first season as the head of baseball operations. How do you think about promoting from the inside instead of looking outside? Well,

Greg Johnson 38:58 

I always think it's the first place you should look I mean, it's so important to again, back to what we talked about earlier on, retention and opportunity for people. Buster was just a he's a person that I got to know, you know, as when he was a ball player through COVID and dealing with some of the strike issues that were, you know, happening back then, somebody that I could have a dialog with and get kind of the player's view of things. So I thought that was very important to kind of reach out to a player and build that where we could have a discussion. It wasn't us battling in the press all the time. You know, that tends to be the case with these kind of negotiations. And the more I got to know Buster, and the more I was around him, I just felt like, boy, this person has every quality you look for in a leader. He's all about the players. He's not about himself. He's extremely intelligent. He has an amazing EQ, and probably moved into that role a couple of years ahead of what we would have anticipated or planned or thought or even would have offered. But. It was just the opportunity was there last year, and having him as part of the ownership group and part of the board, where all of us felt extremely comfortable with him, and the first thing he did was hire from within his two key hires, where he felt like, I'm out here interviewing these people. We've got the best two people right here in the organization, and I fully supported that, and it's been very positive overall, for the for the baseball operations people. You

David Novak 40:27 

know, it's so easy, you know, for young leaders to buy into this lie that they have to know everything. And you're, you're obviously a seasoned leader. I mean, you've been in business for a long time, and you've you've done so much, but how have you kept yourself from falling into that trap of thinking that you you know everything?

Greg Johnson 40:50 

Yeah, that's never been a problem for me. There's plenty I don't know, and then I'll try to fake what I don't know. And I think that that's the same quality that Buster has, what you don't know, go get go find the people that know. And it's the same thing with being true to yourself and knowing your blind spots. You got to know your blind spots too, and you've got to work on those and get help on that. So I I've never I've been humbled many times in business, and I will continue to be humbled in sports. And I'm just thankful that, you know, I've been in had these opportunities to do both. You

David Novak 41:23 

know, in almost every one of my conversations with business leaders like yourself, the topic of AI seems to come up. It's, you know, it's on everybody's mind. How's AI having its impact in baseball?

Greg Johnson 41:35 

Again, how we define it? It's probably all part of analytics and what we do anyway. I think AI, you know, I'll give you one example. Now, we watch pitchers. We study pitchers, we study tape. We try to look for tells, you know, are they going to show us when they're throwing their fastball? I'm talking what's legal here, you know, to see is there any tendency? Now think about AI. You could just film that pitcher, and immediately AI could tell you, Well, he's, you know, got his right thumb over here, you know, something maybe the human eye wouldn't detect, and he wouldn't that pitcher may not detect it, but that's something that you can do. But it does get to the point where I think we over promise a little bit on some of the things AI can do. Person, well, I'll tell you what the next pitch is by all these factors. And I think it can get a little little bit excessive, like, like analytics sometimes can too, and how you manage the day to day game, but AI and analytics, it just, it's a way of analytics getting better and better and more predictive. But I can give you one example, you know, of AI this year, they picked one team, you know, these, these are completely statistical analysis that's done on how many wins a team is going to have. And one of three different groups do it every year, where they predict how many wins you're going to have. And one of the top teams had a prediction of 73 wins. And then another exact, you know, not exactly, they're using different inputs and things, I guess, but had 87 wins. And I said, if those are two AI predictions, that's telling me they've got a long way to go to get to get perfect.

David Novak 43:08 

No kidding, you know, Greg, it's been so much fun. I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? I hope so. What three words best describe? You? Fair,

Greg Johnson 43:18 

persistent, and listener.

David Novak 43:23 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? My father, you're a skier. Where's your favorite place to ski? Snowbird? What's a country that more people should try to visit? Vietnam? The pitch clock. Good for baseball. Great for baseball. What's the one thing you do just for you? Fly fish. What's your most prized possession, family, if I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear,

Greg Johnson 43:45 

either sports talk radio or some classic rewind. What's something about you? A few people would know that I still play ice hockey on Sunday nights. Wow, that's

David Novak 43:56 

a good one. What's one of your daily rituals, something that you never miss, working out. All right, we're out of that lightning round. Good job. Now, I got a few more questions. We'll wrap this thing up. Tell us a little bit about your family, and you know how you how you balance everything you you have going on and and and deal with it on a personal level?

Greg Johnson 44:16 

Yeah, I'm not sure I do, but I have a very tolerant wife that does, has done a wonderful job in being there and raising our kids when they needed somebody there. And I think that's always the hard part of what we built while I was young in my career, and having the having to be away so much from the home, you have to have the right kind of person that can handle the family. And she did a great job at that, and I tried to be there whenever I could be there, but just the demands of a global company put a lot of strain, you know, on that kind of balance. I'm never sure what balance means. It just means, I guess the family's happy, because there's no right number to measure that on. And I'm very thankful that I had a wife who was very happy. Very tolerant of some of that travel and maybe a little golf too there. Yeah, you

David Novak 45:04 

know, one of the, you know, one of the things that we talked about a little bit earlier, you were never pushed to be in the family business, was something you did. How are you approaching that with your own kids? I think

Greg Johnson 45:16 

the same way. I think, you know, one of our daughter is a lawyer and human rights lawyer in living in Europe, and our our son is now working for the family business, but it was never a push for me. It's something that he wanted to do. He did other things before that, and I just, I'm hopeful he stays in it, but I would never push him towards anything that, you know, would I want to have happy children and happy family? And if it's doing something else, I'm fully supportive

David Novak 45:45 

of that. What do you see as your unfinished business? A

Greg Johnson 45:49 

World Series win for the Giants, is my unfinished business. And

David Novak 45:53 

what's gonna happen this year for for that to happen? In your mind, what's, what's, what has to happen on the team for it to gel? I

Greg Johnson 46:01 

think first thing is stay healthy. I mean, you've seen it. It just this baseball. There's way too many injuries, especially for pitching. And have some of our we have some amazing young pitchers, and have them have their breakout years, for a couple of them, would be the key ingredients for us. Last

David Novak 46:18 

question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader, persistence,

Greg Johnson 46:23 

persistence, persistence. You know, at the end of the day, that's going to matter more than anything, so just keep at it. I think that's that's an obvious but very powerful message for anyone.

David Novak 46:37 

Well, Greg, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on this podcast and have this conversation with me. You know, I've always admired what you've been able to do, and just as importantly, how you get it done. You know, you do walk the walk, and, and, and I think the example you set is something that every every leader could learn from. So thank you very much. Well,

Greg Johnson 47:00 

Dave, thank you and a pleasure always being with you. And we all know you are one of the great leaders out there, so it's great to share any time with my good friend Dave.

David Novak 47:15 

You know you can learn a lot about leaders by how tightly they hold the reins. And what's so clear about Greg is this. He knows that power and leadership isn't about control, it's about trust. He sets high expectations and he asks good questions, and then he steps back and lets people lead. He gives them space to grow, to make decisions and to own the outcome of it. All that kind of smart trust is how you build more motivated, loyal and capable teams, and it's how to create a culture that people love to be a part of. So here's something to try this week. Look at one decision you're holding onto. Is there someone on your team who's ready to take ownership of it? Give them the reins, back them up and see what happens. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders let people take ownership. Coming up next on how leaders lead is guy lure Euro, Chairman of Walmart Mexico, also known as walmex and Walmart's regional CEO for Canada, Chile, Central America and Mexico. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you go to get your podcast so that you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday, you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the very best leader that you can be.