Jimmy Kirchdorfer 0:00 

People want to work for a growing company, and if you're reinvesting in a growing industry, you're going to grow as a company. And growth creates opportunities for people. If a company is in an industry that's flat and it's not growing, you really got to wait for somebody to retire or for opportunities to come, but we've always been able to provide that. And our mission statement starts with to ISCO exists because to provide long term opportunities for members of the ISCO team, and the only way to do that is growth.

David Novak 0:39 

You know that old saying, a rising tide lifts all boats. Well, this week, we're talking about what it takes to raise that tide. Welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be. Today I'm sitting down with my good friend Jimmy kerstorfer, the chairman and CEO of ISCO industries, I got to tell you, I love the ISCO story. They started out as a small Gulf irrigation supplier, but they dreamed bigger, and they expanded into HDPE pipes for sewers and water lines and all kinds of infrastructure projects. And this turned out to be a huge global market. Today, they're approaching the billion dollar mark in revenue and even sponsoring a PGA Tour event, the ISCO Championship, which tees off next weekend right here in Louisville, Kentucky. But all this growth isn't just for its own sake. For Jimmy, growth is how you create opportunities for your people, opening up pathways for others to succeed is one of the most fulfilling parts of leadership, and it's absolutely essential if you want to build something that lasts. This episode shows you how to get it done. Plus, Jimmy was at the jail the morning Scottie Scheffler got arrested at the PGA championship last year. Now I didn't say he was in jail. I said he was at the jail, and you got to hear the story from his perspective. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Jimmy kirschdorfer,

you know Jimmy? I know you're a huge golfer, and you got the ISCO tournament coming up. Which, which you sponsor. You're also the co owner of Valhalla. But I have to tell you, one of the things I know that really distinguishes you is you're one of the, the only guys I know that's actually been the top play on SportsCenter. Can you tell us that story?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 2:38 

Actually? Yeah, that's my fun fact. I say a lot been been on SportsCenter. I was playing the American Express Pro Am out in Palm Springs, and hit the shot of my life. Made a hole in one and just so happened, I picked a good time to do it, because there were cameras filming so and I have that forever, actually watches sometimes David on on my phone, and the ball goes in every time I had this dream. One time it lift out. Yeah, that was a shot of my life, and it happened to be on video.

David Novak 3:11 

I'm gonna get more into you know what you're doing in the world of golf, which is considerable, but yeah, I want to hone in on on on how you get to do so much in the world of golf, because you've had so much success. You know, you you're the chairman, CEO of ISCO. Just give us a snapshot of of ISCO and the business that you're in. Yeah,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 3:33 

ISCO was started in 1962 actually, as irrigation supply company. My father started it as a golf irrigation company. We sold sprinklers. Actually sold sprinklers for lawns as well, and and it grew. My brother and I got involved and bought it in the 90s, and actually changed it to ISCO, because irrigation supply really didn't encompass everything that we did. We changed it to ISCO focused more on HDPE piping. My father thought I would love that the irrigation side of it, the golf side of it, but ended up focused more that we could scale on the HDPE piping. And today we have almost 900 people. And

David Novak 4:09 

ISCO has been an incredible success story that very few people know about. You're one of the most successful family businesses in our country. You know, you start this business, and it's the $12 million in revenue. And now you're, now, you're approaching a billion, you know, what was the, what was the key to really taking this business, which was so small, and turning it into this, you know,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 4:33 

category leader, you know, we started off as, you know, golf, irrigation. I think it was the moment that we were able to change. We saw something, a product that we could scale the golf irrigation was just in Kentucky, and I remember, it's kind of an interesting recognition story. I remember one year we had a phenomenal year. We probably sold 80 or 90% market share in Kentucky for irrigation, and we thought that was a big deal. I went to the. National Trade Show, thinking, hey, we're kind of hot stuff here. Look, look what we've done in irrigation. And I got there and we didn't get a sniff. No one even recognized us. This California, Texas, Florida, all these irrigation companies that were so much bigger. And then I realized, even though I love the golf side of the business, the sprinklers we needed to really kind of got out of the sprinkler side of the business and focused on this new technology, this kind of newer product in the market called high density polyethylene pipe. So that was allowed us to scale the business and really be something we found, something we can be good at. And that's something I tell a lot of young people that come and talk to me. You know, I have kids in their 20s, and sometimes their friends will ask me, is I'm not a big believer in the do what you love thing that a lot of people tells them, I'm a big believer in, do what you're good at. Find something you can be really great at, top 1% in the world, top 5% or whatever, and focus on that, because that's a good example. I loved golf, and we were in that business. And now we're, you know, we sell pipe for landfills, for water lines, sewer lines, power plants, industrial lines, gas distribution all around the world. Well, that's,

David Novak 6:12 

you know, that's incredible, but you're also in a very competitive category. You talked about going to that trade show, and you saw all these irrigation companies there that were much bigger. How have you become the market leader? What do you think was the the pivot point that really took you to the point where you can have the kind of business you have today? Well, it

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 6:30 

was, you know, we were very small at the time, and we were just kind of, we saw that we could, we could scale, that the business hadn't been consolidated, and there was no one really doing it all around the country. We were just one location, you know, some reason, somehow we were able to attract really good people and retain them. And it was my first job out of school, so I don't really know what we were doing magical, because I hadn't really worked somewhere else. But people believed in our cause. They believed in the growth story that we had. They believed in our mission statement about providing opportunities for people, and we got great people and gave them the opportunity, and we just ran with it. You

David Novak 7:07 

still have a real competitive issue out there. And you know, one of the things that you know, as I've done my research on your company, is that you branded your product. You know, you you created a brand around something that is typically generic.

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 7:24 

Yeah, back in the day we were we were just a distributor, which means, like, we would take the brand of the manufactured product and pretty much put our sticker on it. We take all their literature, this is before the website, so in all their brochures, and put our little sticker on it and hand it out and promote their product. Well, we realized that at ISCO, we can have a complete solution. Instead of just having a bunch of different product lines made by different manufacturers, we can really brand the ISCO solution, which is encompassing all different types of products. And we became a manufacturer as well on the fitting side. So we would distribute the pipe, manufacture a lot of the value added products and provide a complete solution, branded under ISCO.

David Novak 8:06 

And now you have this great, great success story. But we all know that, you know, there's bumpy roads along the way. I mean, did you have a point where you you you really wondered if you were ever going to be able to pull this off and build a business like you've done today? You

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 8:20 

know, at the time, we just kind of put our head down. In fact, we had kind of set a goal of, I remember back in the 90s, it got in front of everybody and said, Hey, we can be $100 million company, and we may have had 15 or 18 people, and the looks on their faces was so amazing. They're like, you know, there's, there's no way you could think that big. And I said, here's how I said, here's the vision, but also here's how we're going to have multiple locations around the US, which was something different. We were just in Louisville, Kentucky. We're going to be doing business around the world. We're going to have expertise, we're going to start manufacturing and going that way. And we really just had our head down and we're working and kind of when we hit that goal, I don't even think we really realized it till somebody kind of said, Hey, we're there, because we had just had our head down, just kind of doing, doing the work and enjoying the journey, rather than just trying to get to to the end there. But yeah, there's, there's tough times. I remember the the tech, you know, I guess crash kind of in at the end of, you know, 2001 two, in that time frame which a lot of pipe was being used for that that kind of changed the industry. They were kind of piping the internet at the time, and that changed. But really, 2009 2008 2009 financial crisis kind of had a price of pipe fell. We had a lot of inventory, and we had had so much success, that was our first real adversity that we had to that we had to go through. But at the end of the day, as we got through that, I'm like, that made us such a stronger company, because it's not all roses. At the time that we were just thinking we were invincible, than having to have some adversity actually made it

David Novak 9:54 

stronger. So, you know when, when things go south, you know. And it's not all roses, you know. What do you do as a leader to get through those periods?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 10:02 

You know, I think people are watching you very closely. They're watching the look on your face. Are you concerned? And the worst thing you can do is walk around and seem concerned I was, which was hard. I think, I think I had to keep that to myself, not in front of the other people, but remain positive and optimistic and remind them that we're in this for the long haul. You know, we might have a tough year. We we may have dinner and not dessert this year, but, you know, because we've been eating dessert every year, have a lot of success, but they're going to look at your face and really study to see how concerned you are, because that's, you know, this is their livelihood, and they want to know how secure their job is. So that's what I tried to maintain a positive outlook and, and we got through it. And then and started another big growth sport. You know,

David Novak 10:47 

you're a vision guy. You dream big, but earlier, you really attributed your people as the key to your success and and one of the things I know, you and I, ours were kindred spirits, on, on, on recognition. How do you use recognition in your company to drive results?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 11:03 

Yeah, I'm a huge believer in that. And I think, you know, I've gone in in times of my life where you have received recognition, and how great that feels. And I'll tell you one story that I love, that back when I was putting that vision together and explaining to people at one location that how we could have multiple locations throughout and we were pretty much a mom and pop. I mean, I would see everybody the job they did. You're able to go fist pump them, say thank you. And you know you knew, you knew everybody. But I'm like, there's going to be a time when we have people throughout that we're not going to see the great work that they're doing. And how can we recognize someone? It's easy to recognize them when you're right there with them face to face, but how are we going to recognize people at different locations? So we came up this with this award, David, that I'm really proud of. It's called the starfish flinger award, and we've been given this out since 1997 and it's that parable I'm sure you've heard where a young boy on the beach and sees all these starfish that have washed up onto the beach, picking them up, flinging them out into the ocean. And with that, a man comes up and sees the young boy and says, you know, son, what are you doing here? Why are you doing this? And the boy says, Well, you see, sir, these starfish have washed up and the sun's out, they're going to dry out. They're not going to make it. They're going to die. I need to die, I need to get them back out into the water. So the the man says, you know, son, look, look down this side of the beach, and look down this side of the beach, there are starfish, as far as you can possibly see. Now, how in the world do you think you can make a difference? So with that, the boy picked up the starfish, picked up another one, took a good look at it, flung it out into the water, and said, Well, sir, I guess it made a difference to that one. And I was so worried that we were going to grow and get big, and all sudden, you have 1000s of customers and all these people. And people were thinking, that's just one customer we messed up on. That's one load of pipe we didn't do correctly. It's no big deal. I can't make a difference. So we started giving that award, recognizing. It's a big award, and now we have a name. A name plate with going back since 1997 that we give out every year. We have multiple awards like that, that are that, that we do, and it's fun. The best recognition thing we do, that I love, and I started this maybe about 10 years ago, is we started the ISCO Hall of Fame. You know, we've been around a while, and once, I think your company's kind of been around 50 years or so, you can really do this is we bring back somebody that has retired from the company, they have to have left the company, and we honor them. We may do a black tie ceremony, or whatever. We bring them back and we have a Hall of Fame ceremony. We honor the work that they did, and we put them up. We actually have a Hall of Fame conference room with several pictures on the wall and kind of enshrined them, and those are the people that really dedicated their career and made us what we are. So that's a form of recognition that's a lot of fun, and to see the looks on their faces and the pride that they have that you know, they're part of something that's going to continue to go

David Novak 14:02 

on. So, you know, one of the things that I really admire about you is how you share success with others. And obviously, when you started this business as a family business, and it was you and your brother Mark and you teamed up, and you always give him so much credit for, for where, where the company is today. How did you guys delineate who was going to do what? You

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 14:28 

know, David, this is the if there is a perfect partnership, this is it. I mean, I mark is four years younger than me. We have a great relationship. And I think maybe that's important because we never really competed. Him being four years younger, he maybe was competing with me, but I never saw him as a threat. But we have a we have a great brother relationship, and we were, we were just wired differently. I mean, Mark is a he's a great operator. He has an engineering degree. And I think I would go out there to customers and make promises and. He would make it happen and make me look good. But the great thing is, is none of us can benefit without the other one benefiting. I mean, we are 5050, partners in really, everything we do. And I tell our staff, which is important, if you tell Mark something, I'm never going to come to you and say, Why didn't you tell me about that. It's my job with Mark, for us to communicate. And likewise, if you tell me something, it's my job to communicate with Mark. You don't have to worry about telling telling two people about something good or bad, because we talk every day and we share all that.

Koula Callahan 15:32 

Hey, everyone, it's Kula from how leaders lead. And if you've watched our podcast for any number of episodes, you probably know that a common theme from all of the great leaders we interview is that they are active learners. They have this commitment to continuing to learn and grow so that they don't stay stagnant, and so that they continue to see success in their leadership and in their life. This theme of active learning is so important, and it's what David's latest book, how leaders learn is all about. It's all about helping you develop that skill of active learning so that you too can continue to see success in your leadership and in your life. The book is really entertaining. It pulls stories from some of our greatest podcast guests and pairs those stories with insights that you can incorporate into your leadership and into your life right away. Grab how leaders learn on Amazon or wherever books are sold, and I think you're really gonna love it. You feel David's personality through the pages and through his storytelling, and it's a really powerful way to level up your leadership.

David Novak 16:31 

One thing that I know about you is, though you like to make money, you know, and you're big time in the margins, and you were big time in the margins, you know, when you were a kid, tell us that story about how you put mark to work and what, who made what?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 16:47 

Yeah, I was at a very entrepreneurial spirit as a kid, and I realized, Hey, I, you know, I had to, as a chore, I had to cut my lawn, right? My dad bought a lawnmower, and my job was to do that once I got old enough. But then mark would always kind of watch, and he's kind of intrigued with machinery and so forth. But I started to go and try to scale this little business. And I go around the neighborhood and for $5 or whatever, cut cut lawns. And then I realized, for Mark's just itching to get out there and help. And I think for $1 a day, I mean, he would work so hard. I'm glad there were no child labor laws I had to deal with, but he would just being part of it, and I scaled it. And then Mark would go cut the grass and and we became partners there. And then actually I went, when I got older, he took over the grass cutting business and did well on him for himself. But so what

David Novak 17:35 

you charge? What'd you charge for lawn? And how much did he make? And how much did you make? I

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 17:39 

well, he just got a flat fee for, I kind of owned the business kind of thing. And, of course, he was four years younger. You got to remember that. So you got to pick on your little brother, right? That's kind of the kind of the thing. But I would charge, like, three or $4 I remember trying to negotiate this. I was like, I hope I can get $4 from this lady and, and I actually said, she said, how much would it cost? And I said, three or $4 for some reason. Well, obviously she picked three and learned I wasn't a very good negotiator at that age.

David Novak 18:10 

You know, your dad started this business, you know, what do you what was the biggest leadership lesson you learned from your father?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 18:16 

Well, my dad was, he was a contractor by trade. So he, he said, You know, I like to take 10 or 12 people and do a project in a small group. And I saw how he valued the people he had. He was always talking about, hey, all we are is people. And you know, you think about in the contracting side, you know, it's a people side. And then we, as we got going in ISCO and started supplying some of the products for the golf. So I learned from him how important it was to take care of people and to find the right people. Yeah,

David Novak 18:48 

and, you know, speaking of people, another one in your family, you know, you know, I've been privileged to get to know your son, Jay, who played golf at the University in Kentucky and also at Rice and got his MBA there. And he just entered the family business, and he unquestionably is one of the most impressive young leaders I've met. I remember him just probing me about leadership and wanting to learn everything he could about culture and the importance of that. What kind of advice do you give Jay now as he enters the business, because he's a little bit older than what you were when you and Mark started the business, and but he's obviously going to play a huge role in the future. You know, how do you bring him into the business? And what do you tell him

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 19:32 

he's coming into an entirely different business than a brother and I have. And he even said we thought we talked about it. Hey, do you want to go work somewhere else first. And he said, No, I want to be around you and Mark and learn as much as I can while you guys are still active. I mean, Jay wants to do every part of the business. He started working in the plant. And we have some excellent, you know, it's a very important part of our business. It's the value added. So he started there. We have some excellent pipe welders. You want to learn from them, and you. To get around to different parts of the business because, and we've been transparent, you know, we are training Jay to someday own and run the business. So we tell everybody that it's not gonna and it's not gonna be a surprise. He, he's the first in a lot of times in the morning. He, he is a big golfer, and he's conscious about going out and playing golf. He gets asked in so many customer outings and vendor outings and vendor outings and other people want him to play. Said, Hey, I can't be the golf guy. You know, I gotta. I gotta come in here and work just as hard as everybody else. But it's great to see, and I appreciate you saying that David and how great is it for him to have a mentor like you in starting off at age 25 in business is fantastic. So I think he has, he's been humble, and golf teaches a lot of those things, right? You can think you're a hot shot, and you have it one day, and then also, and you have a lot of adversity. So I think that's positioned him well, yeah,

David Novak 20:51 

well, that's great. And so now you have this really big business approaching a billion dollars. You know, what's your vision for the future?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 21:00 

Well, I think we have the vision now is called the Billion Dollar Baby. And after we've kind of, we always kind of have visions, and we set them to numbers. But that doesn't really mean anything the numbers. And I said baby, because I said, when we get there, that's not a destination. I think we'll still be a baby. I think we'll still be in the early life cycle of our product in our businesses. So, you know, I think it's just continue growth is the is the important thing at ISCO, and I think people want to work for a growing company. And like I said, I tell a lot of young people that, you know, really the most simple as they're trying to start their career, get into an industry that is growing. Get with a business that is reinvesting, and get with a business that's thinking long term. If you do those three things, it's, it's, should be a great place to work, as long as they have a good culture. But a growing industry, a business is reinvesting. If you're reinvesting in a growing industry, you're going to grow as a company. And growth creates opportunities for people. If a company is in an industry that's flat and it's not growing, you really got to wait for somebody to retire or for opportunities to come, but we've always been able to provide that, and our mission statement starts with to ISCO exists because to provide long term opportunities for members of the ISCO team, and the only way to do that is growth. So growth is part of it. Mark and I reinvest back in the business. It's hard to ask somebody to grow when you're not reinvesting

David Novak 22:32 

in it. How do you reinvest in your people?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 22:35 

You have to provide people opportunity. And when they succeed, it's not on us, it's them, and if they fail, it's on them. So that we do a lot of training, we do a lot of recognition, different types of things, and a lot of mentorships, and sometimes people get thrown into jobs. We're growing fast, and maybe they don't have all the all the chops yet, but we really need people. We do a lot of promoting with from within. We haven't had as much success in bringing people from the outside into high levels in our company. It's been better as we bring them into our culture and grow with it, but I think they see other people grow. And we've been we've had a lot of success recruiting kind of the 20 somethings nowadays, because, you know, I'm 56 and you hire a lot of people your age, so I hire people my age as we've grown, and now we're looking around, saying, Hey, we might fall off a cliff here with a lot of people aging out. Let's go find the 20 somethings, and we've done a lot of great job recruiting them

David Novak 23:34 

900 people. Now you don't, you don't have a 1,000% batting average, you know, and you have to make tough calls every now on, on who's in and who's out. Share with us the story of the most difficult management challenge you ever had with the person and how you dealt with it.

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 23:52 

That's a great, great story. Yes, we believe in in failing fast. And I tell our people, the managers that are hiring people, you know, you're gonna, you're not gonna bet 1000 you're gonna have some people that don't work out or don't live up to how they you thought they would in the interview. So I'm never gonna get upset if you fail fast, if you keep that person for a long time they don't fit our culture, that's, that's the problem, and I've fallen into that, or had people, you know, we have a big thing called psychological safety, like in when, when you get into a room, and I have it with our executive team, you want to feel safe and not that someone's judging you, or not that somebody's trying to get your job. Or, you know, we don't want people competing with others to try and get get a job. But I've had people that I remember one person that when he would miss one of these meetings, the psychological safety went way up in the room. People were more open, more vulnerable. And then I realized when he's in the meetings, wow, everybody kind of shuts down. So those are always tough calls, especially when people have been with you for a while and. And but I think it's, it's the culture is the main thing. If they're, if they're if they work hard, and they meet your culture and they believe, in the long term, what we're trying to create, we normally can make

David Novak 25:11 

it work. And how do you communicate with your team on a regular basis?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 25:15 

You know, it's easier nowadays, I think with with video and in that things of you can do. I try and be extremely visible. We have our headquarters. We have everybody on one floor. So we found a building with 40,000 square feet where we can have everybody on one floor, and it's easy to walk. I do a lot of I call management by walking around, and hopefully see people face to face. I have a newsletter every month where we highlight a lot of the great things going. And I kind of write a synopsis letter about the business, and we have a big yearly meeting where we give the awards. We do a lot of skits. We make fun of ourselves. And you know, it is more difficult when you have so many facilities around the country. You know, you can't physically get to them all, so you got to find ways to to do that. And, you know, we have trained great people that have that have come up through our company, that understand our culture, that have really taken over that and within their plant or their organization, and we empower them to do that.

David Novak 26:15 

And you're a global business. You know, you're not just in the United States. Describe what you think your global opportunity is and how you're attacking that.

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 26:23 

One of my favorite things when I go to one of our plants and I see a complex pipe fabrication being made, and I ask them, you know, they say, well, that's going to, you know, the Pacific Rim, or that's going to Australia or whatever. And I'm like, we're making things here with our craftsmanship at ISCO in the US and exporting it. We have four facilities in Canada. We used to have some outside the US, but we realize, or outside North America, we realize that our business kind of moves around a lot, so it's easier to make everything here in the US and export it. Yeah, yeah. And

David Novak 26:56 

what's your vision internationally? What do you think you're capable of doing? Yeah,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 27:00 

that part of our business has grown every year, and it's easier to market internationally now. I mean, you used to have to have people boots on the ground everywhere and go calling engineers and, you know, with technology in the marketing side, it's easier to reach. So I see that continuing to grow as a percentage of our business every year, as people find out about ISCO. And one thing I learned. And I went to, I was in, I think it was in, yeah, it was in Abu Dhabi and on a project that we had. And I really wanted to know why what is is goes brand worldwide, because it's easy to find out what it is. Why, why are they buying these products from us? American made piping products is quality to them. And then I was I loved hearing that. They said, Well, we know for this gets made from ISCO, and this gets made in the USA versus other parts around the world, we know the quality is going to be great.

David Novak 27:51 

That's great, you know. And, and you've built a quality business with quality people and, and I know one of your personal passions is golf, and in the last few years, you know, you were the person who led the ownership group to buy Valhalla. Why was it important for you to buy Valhalla, which happens to be in Louisville, Kentucky, and does, has hosted now five, you know, major championships. Why was that so

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 28:19 

important? Well, I've had, I'm proud to be a Louisville Ian, and you know, Golf has done so much. Just like you, I probably wouldn't be sitting here today. You know, you and I played golf out there. That's how we met in the relationship, Junior Bridgeman, you Junior and I, and Jess, we played a lot of golf together. So it's an important part of Louisville. It's important part of Kentucky. It's the course that would bring major championships here, and when the PGA of America decided to sell it, I just couldn't stand the thought of somebody that is not a Louisville, you're not in this community, owning something that is so important to our community. I think people you know travel the brand of Valhalla, as you know, is fantastic, especially outside of Kentucky. People want to come and play it as a reason. People come to our state to play that in, you know, last and last year, people watching from all over the world, watching the PGA championship, but having it locally owned, and we can control it and know that it's going to reach its full potential, was, was very important to

David Novak 29:18 

me. And you put together the ownership group. And, you know, that bought the bought, bought Valhalla. You know, how do you think about that?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 29:27 

Well, I, you know, there were people that, and you being one of them. And actually Junior Bridgeman and and just Musselman that I knew shared that passion for golf, and have had a great experience of Valhalla, and would be doing it for the right reasons. You know, I'm fortunate ISCO has done well, so you can do these passionate projects that you get very excited about. And I put that group together. I know you remember me calling you, saying, David, please come in, and I need you. I need your vision. I need you to be a part of this. And it's been one of the joys of my life, really, of coming in and taking a great golf course. Dollars with a lot of history. I had a Ryder Cup there. We had senior PGAS. Like you mentioned PGA championships and putting our kind of Kentucky flair, you came up with the the tagline of a unique golf experience, the championship golf experience you could only find in Kentucky. So it's been fun to you know we have the horses, the thoroughbred horses out there when you drive in the white the white clubhouse, and really make that a place. So when you come visit there, you know where you are, yeah.

David Novak 30:27 

And you know, it's been fun for all of us, and it's been fun to watch you You lead the process and making Valhalla a better golf club and and now here we are. We're on the the eve of the ISCO tournament in Louisville, Kentucky, which is being hosted at hurstbourne Country Club. You know what? What made you decide to sponsor a PGA event?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 30:52 

It's the same kind of thought there. It's hard as we're not a Manu and we're not a consumer product, right? I mean, our product is actually buried underground. No one ever sees our product, and no one's going to call up during the show and during the broadcast and buy HDPE pipe. But it was important to me that we have it in this community. Golf in this community has meant a lot to me. I grew up at one of the public golf courses here that I could walk to from from home and help me grow as a person. So I'm like, we need to continue to have professional golf in Louisville, so by or in Kentucky. So by becoming the title sponsor, I could, I could control that. And I when I was a kid, I was just infatuated with golf, and I really wanted to go to a PGA Tour event. And my dad had to take me three and a half hours away to Columbus, Ohio, to the memorial, because that was the closest PGA Tour event, and now I'm excited that kids, or whoever around Louisville can come out and see golf at the PGA Tour level.

David Novak 31:49 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Jimmy kerstorfer In just a moment. You know, one of Jimmy's strengths as a leader is his ability to think long term. That's also true for David Solomon, the Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs, for him, it's vital to make long term investments in your business.

David Solomon 32:06 

I want our organization to take a long term approach to solving our clients needs. And I'm convinced that if you take a long term approach and you build trust, good things will happen and we'll do just fine. I'm trying to think about it. How can we make these strong businesses over the next decade or two? And look, there's invariably going to be some pressure from investors and the market in the short term, but as long as we're striking the balance right and can show paths to delivering higher returns for our shareholders, I think the market will be accepting of our investments and the overall strengthening of the organization.

David Novak 32:43 

Go back and listen to my entire conversation with David, which also includes the whole story behind his career as a DJ. It's episode 137 here on how leaders lead. I know you're also very passionate about, you know, learning from all people and diversity and just, you know, you know, believing in people. And one of the things I know you're really pumped up about is the Valhalla in 2028 we have the Solheim cup. You know, how'd that happen?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 33:13 

Well, that was, you know, it's a great event. I mean, they call it the biggest event in women's golf. And, you know, we had this town. You talk to a lot of people, they say the best sports moment they had was in 2008 the Ryder Cup. You know, we had JB homes and Kitty Perry Kentuckians there, and the pride that everyone had. So here's a chance that we wanted to have women's sports is just taking off. So let's have a women's event, and talked to the people there. They came and toured the people with the LPGA, and fell in love with Valhalla in the community. And you know, they said, like, almost 20% of their visitors are from outside the country for the Solheim cup. So they thought people would love coming to Kentucky and having the bourbon theme and the horse theme. So I know you're that feel the same way. I'm so excited to have that event, and it's going to be here before we know

David Novak 34:05 

it. Yeah, you know, it's great to, you know, promote women's sport, and, you know, the European team playing the United States team, just like the Ryder Cup, and that that event is just going crazy. So I think we might even have more success with that than we had with the PGA tournament. But you know what, the PGA tournament, we set revenue records from this little town here in Louisville, Kentucky.

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 34:30 

Yeah, I'm proud of how our community showed up for that. And I know you and in junior and chess and I, being in this community, were able to go call our friends and say, hey, please support this. And they did, and I saw a lot of smiles on faces that week, and how proud our community was to host that.

David Novak 34:49 

You know, you've mentioned the Valhalla ownership group a couple times. You mentioned Junior Bridgeman, the late Junior Bridgeman, who just recently passed away. And you know, he was Coca Cola bottler Wendy's franchisee. He just, you know, owned Ebony and Jet magazines, you know, a great entrepreneur. What did you learn from junior? You

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 35:08 

know, I think we, I know we both learned a lot, and you did a fantastic job at his eulogy, describing you. Junior was the true definition of a great man, well rounded. I saw Junior, what he did in his life, how successful he had become. This is post basketball. He didn't earn a lot in the NBA at that time. You know, back in the 80s, it's not like NBA money now, but what he did with his life then, and he chose Louisville to come here. He has a fantastic family, so a wonderful family man, a businessman, but he is the most humble guy, and I know you'll agree that I've ever met, and we miss him dearly, and I'm so glad, I mean, we were friends, but when you get to be a partner with somebody on a passion project like Valhalla, I am so glad I had that opportunity to do that with him and really get to know him even better, and actually have a picture of him In my office I look at every day and a very inspiring person on what he accomplished in his life, yeah, you

David Novak 36:05 

know, it was, you know, at his service, in his casket, he wore a Valhalla pin, you know, which I felt was very touching to all of us. Yeah,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 36:15 

David, I mean, that is I actually lost it. My wife was with me, and we had that tragic dude news. Junior passed away doing service. He was at a Boy Scout luncheon, which I know you spoke at before, at their fundraiser, never made it off the stage. It was so sad, but walked up to his casket, and on his lapel he had a Valhalla pin. And you know, it wasn't a Milwaukee Bucks pin, it wasn't a university Louisville pin, it was Valhalla. And I just lost it. And talking to his family, they said he loved that place. He was so proud of what you all have done that we chose that as fitting to put put on his lapel and his casket. And I, I really broke down that we were able to give him that joy in the last couple of years of his life, to see the transformation of Valhalla,

David Novak 37:05 

yeah, and he certainly was proud to be a part of what we've done. And we do miss him, for sure. And moving on to a more, you know, a happy note, you are this big time golfer. What's the best score you've had in the last year? And where'd you do it? Oh, gosh,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 37:24 

it hadn't been as good in the last year as it was back in the days. I remember, I had a 66 in the Club Championship at Big Spring once. The great thing about golf is there's always hope. My best golf days are ahead of me, David, and the minute you lose that hope, you know, you're always the game always gives you something during a round, you think, I think I'm close. I'm getting closer.

David Novak 37:47 

That's fantastic, you know? And this has been so much fun, and I want to have a little bit more Jimmy with my lightning round questions, are you ready for this? I am ready. Okay, the three words that best describe you transparent, passionate and collaborative. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 38:06 

be? I'd probably say maybe Scotty Scheffler or Rory McIlroy. I'd love. I'm such a golfer, to be able to hit a golf ball like they could for a day would be great.

David Novak 38:15 

What's your biggest pet

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 38:18 

peeve, procrastination

David Novak 38:21 

as a golf lover who's in your dream Foursome, and what course would you would you play?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 38:27 

I had probably one of my best golf moments was I played the old course, St Andrews for the first time with my dad and my brother. My dad's no longer with us, but walking down the first hole at St Andrews was spiritual to me. So I would probably say now my son, my brother and my dad, Oh,

David Novak 38:45 

fantastic. What's your your your favorite hole at Valhalla,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 38:51 

number 18 photo finish. We named it right you and I had a good time with that.

David Novak 38:56 

Right as a Louisville guy, what do you enjoy most about the Kentucky Derby?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 39:01 

Definitely to seeing the people and how excited they are to be there. You know, we only watch two minutes of actual sport really. There may be some other races, but you're there all day and and everybody so excited to be there, and everybody has hope that they're going to win the big race. You go around and people, they say, I feel really good about my bets and all that. So it's and really showcasing it to people from out of town, I guess is the best answer,

David Novak 39:24 

Jimmy, what's the one thing you do? Just for you, I love

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 39:27 

to I love it's kind of meditational for me. I love to practice golf. I would go out there and hit chip shots. And I'm kind of meditating. And I don't know if I ever remember even hitting shot, but I love

David Novak 39:37 

that, besides your family, what's your most prized possession,

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 39:41 

I have a picture of my dad and myself when I was two and a half years old. My dad teaching me how to play golf. And actually a reporter came up and took it, and it was in the newspaper. I don't know why, but at the time, I guess it was, they were a short news story, but hey, here's a guy teaching his son to play golf, and I still have that framed in my office if I turned on. The radio in your car. What would I hear? Oh, you know, this is, this is definitely country

David Novak 40:05 

music. What's something about you that people would not know?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 40:09 

Every morning, I'm really into puzzles. I do the Wordle, I do the mini crossword, I do the jumble, just to kind of get my day going.

David Novak 40:16 

That's I, you know, I've known you for a long time, and I didn't know that. So that's fantastic, you know? And so, so Jimmy, just a few more questions. And, you know, we'll, we'll wrap this up. You know, you have a tremendous wife and Dana, two incredible kids, and Jay and Emma. How do you, how do you bring your personal leadership home?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 40:42 

You know, I think I am Thank you for saying that, and that's the greatest compliment I could get. Is I blessed with a great family. It started with Dana. The biggest decision, I tell people, the biggest decision you make in your life is choosing your your mate and your lifelong partner. And I, I somehow lucked into something great there with Dana, but I remember, you know, it was Jay and Emma. I'm incredibly proud of them, but I remember when they were first, you know, we found out Jay was was coming in, you know, 25 years ago, and I was really nervous about I wanted to be a great parent, and Dana and I read books about it, but I realized that the best thing you can do for your kids is give them opportunity. That's the only thing you really you can do, is give them opportunity. And it's kind of like in business, the same kind of thing. When you bring people on, it's like, we can give you opportunity, but we can't make you successful. So, you know, with education and so forth, but it's been up to them. But the four of us have great times. We've had great adventures together, taking trips, and I'm incredibly proud of them.

David Novak 41:41 

Yeah. And, you know, we've mentioned Jay, what's Emma into these days?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 41:45 

Oh, Emma. And they say Emma's personality is a lot like mine, is what people say. But she's, she's working, she moved to, she's in Charleston, working for a company called mom water, doing a lot of marketing and promotion, social media. And Emma is always a gatherer of people. You know, she's always been a people person and been around them. And it's fun to watch her. He's fun to watch all your your kids, you know, kind of get into the real world and and find their way.

David Novak 42:13 

And Dana, you know, you've been married for a long time to Dana, how do you guys make the business partnership

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 42:20 

work. It's been great. She has let me, kind of, she knows that I come home and my brain is still spinning with business, and she's been incredibly enabling. I traveled a lot when our kids were very young. I mean, I was, you know, we were growing our business, and I was gone a lot. She was super with that, with taking care of our kids, kind of, when I was, kind of, I was kind of gone a lot, so it's just been, it's a partnership, you know, and she has things she's stronger at than I am, and it works great together.

David Novak 42:50 

And, you know, you are a big relationship guy, you know, what do you think makes a great relationship?

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 42:57 

I think the most important thing, and even when i is, is the horizon, the long term thinking. And I look for people, even when we were hiring people like, if the horizons are you're both thinking long term, you can get through any short term problems. If somebody's looking for a quick win and the other person's thinking long term, it doesn't a relationship won't last long. So I think it's being a good listener to people, asking a lot of questions, being inquisitive, learning about them. People are why they are because of a lot of times, their upbringing, their childhood, and ask a lot of questions about that.

David Novak 43:35 

And you know you're you, you have a lot of vision, but you're a sales guy. You know you love to sell. Okay, what do you think is key to selling? I

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 43:42 

think it's listening. And I struggle with that. Sometimes I like to talk, and I get in sales mode and I want to go, and end of the day, I'm like, did I really listen to what they're really wanting? And asking a lot of questions, letting them talk more, and then coming up with a solution and finding a win, win. You know, any relationship to last a long time, and we're in the relationship business, right? People put in pipe and they're gonna, they're contractors, so that's their job. So they're gonna go from one project to the next. But for anything to last long, you know, you got to have the horizons match up. Are they a long term thinker? And I'm, am I a long term thinker? And that way you can get through any any rough times.

David Novak 44:23 

I'd be crazy if I didn't ask you this question, but I gotta ask it. You know, it's like when we had the PGA Championship at Valhalla, Scottie Scheffler got arrested, and you're the guy that basically bailed him out of jail. I mean, give us the Cliff Notes of that story

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 44:40 

that was, you know, we you think you prepare for everything. David, we work two years to prepare, prepare for a PGA, and then, you know, we'd actually thought Scotty might not play before because they were expecting. He and Meredith were expecting their first kid, the first child, and he made it clear, hey, if she's in labor, I'm not coming. So we're thinking that would be the number one. All for not coming, would be tough, but and then he's coming, and then we I wake up Friday morning, as you did, and you hear Scottie Scheffler is being taken to jail. Which those two things don't really register. The word Scottie Scheffler, from what I knew about him, and jail, you know, going in the same sentence, but gotten that and just went into full crisis mode, like, what would this tournament be if we didn't have him, if he didn't make his tee time? So went down, made a lot of phone calls. Hope, you know, hopefully common sense would prevail and we're able to get him out. And I learned a lot of that day from the standpoint of him. He was amazing. He never when I first saw him after we got him out of jail, I didn't know if he was going to say, take me to the airport. I'm leaving or, you know, I don't want to. I need to get out of this town, which would have been devastating to our event. He was such an overwhelming fan favorite, but he never claimed victimhood. He actually apologized to me, saying, I'm sorry if I did anything wrong. I was just doing what I was told. And he told me how nice the people in the jail were to him. He's like these people, and I didn't know what to expect, because he had every right to kind of be angry. And then I said, Scotty, you know, hopefully you're going to play today. And he said, Well, what's my tea time? Told him? He says, Yeah, I think I'll give it a go. So his calmness, his graciousness in a time character really shows in a time of adversity like that. And I learned a lot from him, actually, yeah,

David Novak 46:27 

well, I'm glad you're an early riser, because you know what happened to me is that I stayed out a little late the night before, and I always get up at like six o'clock, but I slept in, and I go to my phone, as I always do, and there's a text from Randy Smith, his coach, saying, David, I need a lawyer for Scottie Scheffler. And I go, Oh my God, what has happened, you know? And thank God you were there, and Mayor Greenberg and you teamed up, and we got him out and in time for the first he had time, and he birdie the first hole. Had a very great round. But thank goodness for Louisville. Would have been a big blemish on on Louisville, if you wouldn't have been able to pull that off. And so. So hats off to you on that one last question here, Jimmy, what's the one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 47:10 

leaders? I get asked a lot by young people, you know, just starting their career, and I would say, I'm not a big believer in do what you love. People tell them that I'm gonna say, find what you're good at. Find something you can be the best 1% or 5% something you can be good at in life. And you know what? You're gonna end up loving it. If you show up every day and you're good at it, you're gonna end up

David Novak 47:34 

loving it. Jimmy, thanks so much for just being on this podcast and having this conversation. And I wish you all the success in the world with the ISCO tournament, more importantly, with your business and with your family. And I hope you get a lot more top top 10 Sports Center appearances.

Jimmy Kirchdorfer 47:57 

Yep, Well, David, thank you for having me. You've been a great mentor to me. I love what you're doing with this podcast and your noble mission of really trying to make the world a better place by helping educate people and making better leaders. And you know, leadership is probably definitely underrated in this world nowadays, and especially in times of great change, you need leaders. So thank you for what you're doing on helping educate leaders.

David Novak 48:20 

All right, great. See you on the golf course.

I love how Jimmy thinks about growth. It isn't just a goal, it's a responsibility. It's not just about making money, it's about making sure your people can grow, because when your business grows, it creates opportunities to serve more customers, of course, but also to open up pathways and possibilities for your team to help them improve their careers and their lives. That's a powerful thing, and without a doubt, it's one of the most fulfilling parts of leadership, plus who doesn't want to work for a company that's reinvesting in its growth and its people. It's a smart way to build a great culture with great talent, and clearly it's working at ISCO. So here's your challenge this week. Take a step back and ask yourself, is the growth you're creating also creating opportunity for others, if not, what might need to shift? Because at the end of the day, great leadership is about building something bigger than yourself and bringing people along with you. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders grow the business so their people can grow with it. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Sharon price, John CEO of Build A Bear. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business, so that you will become the best leader that you. It can be it.