David Novak 0:04 

Hey everybody, welcome to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen. And while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today, I'm talking with Tyler Tony and Coby cotton, two of the five dudes who created dude, perfect. They have racked up over 15 billion views on YouTube. Yes, that's billions with a B, and they have built an incredible business with live shows, merchandise and so much more. But behind all the trick shots and stereotype videos, believe me, dude, perfect as a brand is for real and a fast growing company. These five friends have been partners for 13 years and in a space where attention tends to be pretty fleeting. That's some serious longevity. What I love is how they prioritize quality above quantity. They're really selective whenever they vet content ideas, and sponsorship opportunities. And that's helped them build a brand that people truly trust and keep coming back to. If you want to build something that lasts, then keep listening, because boy, you're going to learn a ton. So here's my conversation with my good friends. And soon to be yours, Ty and Kobe from Dude Perfect.

One thing we have in common and you might be surprised to learn this is that we all had the opportunity to throw out the first pitch at Wrigley Field. Okay, wow, that was so much fun for me. But you didn't just get to throw out the first pitch, you took batting practice, you put your your heads inside the scoreboard. And then you challenge the all star Chris Brian to go get on the go kart on the warning track. And, and you do this kind of fun stuff at other big time events like the Super Bowl. And I want to get into how you guys lead. But I got to ask you, Ty, what's it like to have an experience like that?

Tyler Toney 2:10 

Well, it's something that we certainly don't take for granted. And we've been doing for the last 13 years now what started out is just five very competitive guys making videos and having fun in our own backyard at Texas a&m, quickly turned into a lot more than that. And for us, we saw what started as just a fun idea that we enjoyed, turned into somewhat of a small brand turned into a kind of a viral sensation. And then basically the change of that brand over the last, you know, 10 years or so has led to some really cool opportunities that we've gotten to do over the years. And one of those being like you mentioned, the ability for athletes and brands to link themselves to us and provide really cool opportunities for us to showcase their not only their abilities, but also them as people. And so you mentioned Kris Bryant is a guy that we've gotten to work with a few times in the past, but obviously a phenomenal baseball player, but a really just quality person as well. And we have had a ton of fun hanging out with him. And our wives are so tired of hearing the phrase once in a lifetime, because we tend to have a lot of those over the amount of time that we've been doing this. And so it's something that is always really, really fun for us, obviously to have these athletes and heroes that we've looked up to, to be able to spend time with them and you know, see firsthand the type of people they are and what they're like, you know, as leaders as well.

David Novak 3:32 

You know, Kobe, my wife and I, we have watched so many of your videos getting ready for this. And really, honestly, we have really not laughed so hard in a long time. I mean, you guys are funny, and it's just really, really amazing. But we're 70 years old, who's your core target audience

Coby Cotton 3:49 

70 could have fooled me. Thank you very much. Sounds like a bit of an exaggeration, I think it might be 60 core audience for us. We have at this point dialed in specifically on family, we have spent like Ty said, 13 years doing this business. And we feel that we've been building trust with families and brands over these last 13 years from a business side, that's making sure that the brands can trust the content that we've created. And then from a family side, which really runs the whole deal that those families can trust. Each time they click on one of our videos or watch it on TV or any of our entertainment that they know it's something that their whole family can enjoy. So I think we picture a family at home on the couch watching each video that we create. You know, I've interviewed

David Novak 4:33 

a lot of leaders on this show, but I'll tell you something you two have created along with your team, you created one of the most outrageous fun, creative, successful startup businesses that I've ever seen. And I don't know if you really think of yourself as a startup business, but you definitely are. You know, and you've talked a little bit about it Tyler earlier. Tell us how dude, perfect got started.

Tyler Toney 4:54 

Yeah, so you know, I kind of mentioned that we were five college roommates at Texas a&m. Very cool. repetitive guys, we all played sports growing up, we were always, you know, coming up with different games and making up different challenges and sports and stuff like that and playing them in the house. And so Garrett and I were in the backyard, we were, you know, challenging each other to make these shots. And that was where it originated, was in that backyard with a little cheap basketball goal. And pretty soon, you know, everybody wanted to come out there and try and one up the other guy or try their shot that they came up with. And we put them all on film. And Good Morning America called a couple days after we posted it wanted to put that first video on television. And then it was kind of a slow growth for the first two years, I guess of hey, you know, that was fun. Like, wait, now we could do another one. What if we don't, instead of a backyard, we go out to my family's ranch and do a video out there and it kind of a different feel to it. And then Cody and I were counselors at Sky Ranch summer camps were like, Man, what a perfect opportunity to do a trick shot video there. And it was kind of a slow growth from that aspect from the beginning of those videos. And then once our very first brand ever came to us. We had people who kind of came alongside and were like, hey, you know, I think this is a real opportunity that you guys have here.

David Novak 6:05 

That's great. You know, Where did the name Dude Perfect come from?

Tyler Toney 6:09 

So the name came from? We were in the backyard. We had two chairs set up obviously no cameraman or anything, anybody to film. And so one of the guys set the camera up on the railing that was already there. And everything was perfectly centered up in frame and he said, Oh dude, perfect. And then we sat down. And we watched the clip back like looking for you know where we're going to start the video. And we're like, oh, that's kind of cleverest. Let's call it dude. Perfect. And so we always say it could have been worse. Could have been better. But that's where we landed came

Coby Cotton 6:38 

down to dude. Perfect. And backyard stuntman. Yeah, the two leading candidate. Well, let me tell you,

David Novak 6:43 

I think you made the right call, you know, you know, before you launch, dude, perfect. I know you had real jobs. You guys were really going after it. So at what moment? Did you realize that this was more or could be more than just a series of videos, that it was a big time opportunity and, and that you really realized that? Hey, you know, we got to focus in on this and really tried to build the brand, dude, perfect.

Coby Cotton 7:08 

I'll give credit to the other three guys, myself, I have a twin brother, right? When we graduated from Texas a&m, ty was actually one year behind us. But when we all finished up, everybody jumped into other jobs, right? Like this was very much a part time thing for us. We were just making videos for fun at that point, YouTube in 2009. When we started, nobody was doing YouTube full time. That's something that people think of now is not normal, but something that people do. That was not the case then. And so these guys were doing other jobs. My brother and I were kind of holding down the fort from the Dude Perfect perspective, just taking emails and phone calls and trying to keep things going working from our kitchen. But these other guys were cranking out other jobs. And they were working nine to five, Cory and I were living in Austin at the time. And then on the weekends, we would drive to Dallas where the other guys all lived. They had been working all week, we would meet them we'd film a Dude Perfect video on the weekend. If there was a brand we were doing it for. When they asked us if we were available to film something on a Tuesday, I regretfully tell you that. We told them every time oh man, we are so booked with speaking engagements during the week, we are only going to be available on Saturday or Sunday, we would film on a weekend. And then everybody went back to their other full time jobs or whatever was going on before that. So when it came time for everybody to decide if we were gonna do this full time, it was a big decision for these other guys who had spent some time building up a job and already had a family.

David Novak 8:29 

How did you guys as a team muster up the courage to do it together? I mean, getting five guys to agree to go out and quit your job and pull this off. It's kind of hard to fathom how that really happened.

Tyler Toney 8:40 

Unfortunately, it wasn't something that we knew until after the fact we kind of had to take that leap of faith. And it was definitely a kind of risk versus reward decision where we weighed out all of our options. And we made the decision in April to go full time as five guys and we said, hey, we're gonna give it till the end of the year. And we felt like hey, you know what, if it doesn't work out, we're not going to have to wonder like, what if, but we all felt, you know, confident we were young enough that we could, you know, jump back into something else and find another opportunity if it didn't work. But I think the cool thing for us was that first month that we did go full time, it was very evident that this was kind of our calling, and this is what we were meant to be doing. And the five of us all come from a similar faith background. And we feel very strongly that God has blessed us with this opportunity of Dude Perfect. It's not something that we've kind of garnered up ourselves or it's not out of the work that we've done. But we've we've been given an opportunity to use this platform. And so we still feel very strongly about that today. But it was neat to see that kind of justified for us like hey, this is the path that you should be going on. This is what I've called you guys to do. And that was a really cool opportunity for us to see the rest of that year.

Coby Cotton 9:51 

Yeah, I think it was that first month that Ty mentioned that nerf reached out and that was when we signed a nerf deal for the first time and I mean that was early Dude Perfect days and I think gave us just a little sense of okay, you know, we should at least be able to feed ourselves throughout the rest of the year.

David Novak 10:05 

Thank goodness for that I'm sure your was all like that gets. So you know, you you get this, you know, vote of confidence. But those early days, it's always tough when you start up a business, was there ever some thought that maybe we should throw in the towel? Or did you just know that this was it from then on?

Tyler Toney 10:22 

Once we made the decision to go full time, I don't know that we've ever like really reconsidered, like, Hey, did we make the right decision or along those lines, not to say that we haven't had difficult times or anything like that. But I think once we made the decision that, hey, this was going to be the route that we took all five guys were on board. And then from then on, it was okay, now that this decision was made, what can we do to fix or, you know, realign anywhere that we need to to where we can make this work. And I think that's something that's also been pretty important to our business at its core is once a decision is made, even if somebody didn't disagree with it at the time or two guys, were not on board. Once we make the decision as a group, even if you were out voted, well, now, everybody is going to be on board with that decision moving forward and trying to make that, you know, be the best version it can.

David Novak 11:11 

So nerve sponsors, you and then early on, you were approached by GMC to do a truck commercial. And this had to be a huge opportunity for this major company coming in and asking you to do a commercial form. What did you do to maximize that opportunity? And then break through the clutter? Because, you know, let's face it, there are 1000s of commercials hitting everybody every day.

Coby Cotton 11:33 

Well, credit where it's due. GMC was the very first company to ever reach out to us. That was still we were still in college. And that was our first lightbulb moment of okay, I guess there is some business opportunity here. The question they put in front of us was, if you guys could do any stunt trickshot, whatever, what would it be? And we talked about it and came back to him and among other ideas throughout while we'd love to try a shot from an airplane. And we were thinking of course they're gonna be like, Well, hey, thanks, guys. That's not really kind of what we had in mind. And they said, okay, yeah, we can do that. What else do you have in mind? And so they just move straight on past that. And before we knew it, we were out in the field outside Austin, and there were no joke. There were 6070 people there giant cameras, a huge film tent. When we first pulled up we thought there was some music festival outside of Austin and took us a while to realize that all those people were there to film these weird college kids that think they can make a shot from an airplane. So Tyler goes up in the plane. It's like crop duster, probably 150 feet in the air. I mean, it's still flying by drops. The first shot almost hits a cow a football field away from the goal. And we're instantly thinking, oh, gosh, what have we signed ourselves up for? These guys are all gonna pack up and go home. Ty's walkie talking down to us, like, I don't know, guys, what do I do differently, really, I guess drop it earlier circles around the second time, five minutes later, by the time the plane gets back around, drops it and nails it second, try snow mash out of an airplane. camera guys almost missed the moment. We're losing our minds as you can imagine, just truly from in this case, zero to hero moment. And that shot they used in the TV commercial for the NBA Finals in the World Cup that year. So pretty cool shot heard around the world. Pretty cool.

David Novak 13:15 

The Revolutionary War, you guys are creating history here. That's an AI shoots

Coby Cotton 13:19 

50% from the sky, he does not want to mess that average up. So no reason to try again. Yeah, I'm

Tyler Toney 13:24 

never gonna throw another ball out of an airplane. That's great. And

David Novak 13:27 

just recently, you did a deep sea fishing video that was sponsored by Bass Pro Shops. And I loved your boat. Name's Nacho boat in rod father, unbelievable, you know, how do you view sponsorships now and your overall strategy of the business, we've come

Tyler Toney 13:45 

a long way we're at the beginning, not really knowing how long this was going to last, how long we'd be able to keep this up, it was very much like, Hey, we're gonna do as many of these things is we can and try and capitalize on all these opportunities as quickly as possible. I would say we were always a little bit more selective than most groups. But I think now especially as long as we've been doing it, our goal is to have fewer partners, but kind of those more meaningful long term partners. And we've been blessed kind of to be in an opportunity now where we don't have to take every opportunity that comes our way. And we get to be a little bit more selective. And we have turned down numerous opportunities that we felt just didn't align with either our brand or the creative for a video, or it just felt like it was too much. And so I think that's one thing that has kind of helped establish the longevity of Dude Perfect is the fact that we were never the ones putting out the most content. We made a decision early on that we were going to put out content basically every other week. And so that was a little bit different from the norm that other people were doing on YouTube, but we felt like people were having a hard time kind of keeping up the quality that they first became known for. And that every other week thing allowed us to still have free time, still do the things that we want to do, but put a lot of emphasis on the products that we come out with. And that's one thing that's carried over into other avenues of our business as well, whether that's merchandise, whether that's our tour, we're not going to be out on the road doing 100 stops a year like an artist does, we'll do a lot fewer numbers of shows. But when you go to that show, our biggest goal is that every person walks out of that thing. And man, that was so worth it, my family had an awesome time, that was a blast, I would 100% go to another one. And so I think the quality over quantity has been another common theme throughout Dude Perfect in the last 13 years that we've tried to keep up.

David Novak 15:44 

Well, I can't believe it, it's the first week of the new year, and a lot of you're probably thinking about what you can do this year to make your life better. And one thing I'm always thinking about is this life is just too important to delegate to someone else. That's why I'm so passionate about building self awareness. So you can take control of your life and build the life you really love living. Learning to be a self coach is a great way to build self awareness. And if you're new to the concept of self coaching, I've put together a free self coaching guide that will walk you through the key principles of how to become a great self coach to really find fulfillment in your life and career. You can get it and take charge of u.com/guide.

You said something interesting there, which I thought you know, is pretty astute. And since that you turned down things that didn't align with your brand. Have you guys codified what your brand is? Or is this just something intuitively you know, what is how would you describe the Dude Perfect brand? Yeah, we

Tyler Toney 16:49 

actually just had this conversation about a year ago. But our goal is to be the most trusted world class entertainment brand. And that is pretty vague for a reason. Because we don't want to be just known as the YouTube guys. I mean, that's where we started, we have a great relationship with YouTube, we will continue to put out content on YouTube. But we've most recently started dipping our toes into broadcasting alternate broadcasters I might add, doing Thursday night football for Amazon Prime, which has been a ton of fun, kind of an extension of our videos and our live show. And we've done the books we've done, the apps, we've done games, all sorts of different things now. And in any of those spaces, we want to prove that Dude Perfect can be not only relevant, but also entertaining and appeal to a certain audience. And so that was kind of the messaging that we landed on. But we feel pretty strongly that we've got a really big opportunity still even ahead after doing it this long to continue to do so.

David Novak 17:46 

You know, when I look at your content business, you've got a series of what in the packaged goods business, you might call line extension, you know, you go from trick shots, to battles to stereotypes to overtime. And you've really stretched the brand. Tell us how you think about new content and the segments that you do go into.

Coby Cotton 18:04 

We found that people love what they love, but they also don't know what they're missing. And we try to mix it up for each year. So just like you mentioned, you you categorize that great, we've tried to come out with either every year every two years a brand new series, so people still get what they love in the trick shots. The stereotypes quickly became a staple for us the battles are all of our competitions. Then we came out with overtime, which was a brainchild of Tyler's of all these many segments that got put together, think about a variety show like on Jimmy Fallon and package that all together into one kind of leanback experience. And so that's what overtime has been a recent one has been bucket list for us, which is our adventure series. That may just be an excuse for us to travel the world and do cool things. We've gone to South Africa, we've got Australia on the docket, but that's been those are like many movies, you know, there's a 30 to 45 minute episodes, just crazy cool stuff that we've gotten a chance to do there. So to your point, you know, we're always trying to push the envelope on ideas still give people the reason that they came and keep it you know, familiar enough to where someone doesn't feel like we've gone totally off in a different direction, but hopefully help them feel like we're still changing and morphine each year. I want

David Novak 19:13 

to dig a little bit more into your innovation process because for example, I have to ask you how in the world did you guys come up with rage monsters, which I understand is one of your most popular skits. But tell us how that idea came about? Yeah,

Tyler Toney 19:26 

so the rage monster was first born in our very first stereotype video ever pick up basketball stereotypes and it was just kind of always the guy at the gym who would you know, grab the basketball and leave after he loses a game and then now nobody else can play and then I think we took it one step further. And I was like all punt the ball and then I'll go drop kick a trash can like just for making a little bit extra. And so did that. And very soon after we did pick up basketball stereotypes. We're like okay, well, we've got the golf stereotypes next. And we're like, man, that rage monster actually kind of works in golf stereotypes too, because Yeah, the guy that hits the bad shot and he's like, he's quit and he's never playing golf again. He wants nothing to do with it throws a club snaps it whatever. We're like this fits, we got to do the rage monster in this one too. And those first two videos that was like all anybody talked about was the rage monster. We're like, man, we got to keep this up, like no matter what we do. And so we've, we've kind of gotten ourselves into this corner where no matter what the stereotype video is, people expect a rage monster and they want it to be over the top. And even if it makes absolutely no sense at all, you know, we're over here trying to figure out how to plug in this rage monster. And so now one of Cody's buddies from a&m has like this demolition company. And so we'll send a text to these guys and be like, hey, what do you got, you got a Chucky Cheese, it's getting blown up anytime soon, we need some fresh ideas for rage monster. And that was where the water tower came from in airplane stereotype. So we had to work that one in but it has certainly become a staple and a lot of people's favorite in the video tie. I've

David Novak 20:56 

heard you say you don't keep people's attention and keep them coming back by giving the same thing over and over again. So walk me through how you keep one upping yourself, you guys must put a lot of pressure on yourself in terms of what the content or the new content is going to be.

Tyler Toney 21:12 

We do. And that's I mean, I would say the biggest struggle of our business. Now we're doing it this long, we find that 80% of our time spent is now meeting and planning and brainstorming where previously it didn't have to be so focused, because there was still so many options, and so many different things that we hadn't yet done. And once you've been doing it this long, it's tough to come up with a trick shot now that people haven't seen with the amount of trick shot video. I mean, I don't even know how many trick shot videos are out there if you search them. But that is definitely a pinch point, I would say in our business right now is coming up with those new pieces of content and making sure that they are to the level and to the quality that people have grown to expect in the Dude Perfect past history. And so we work very, very hard at that it is a team effort, I keep a list on my phone a notes page, when ever I have an idea whether it's a segment for overtime, whether it's just one trick shot, whether it's an idea for a bucket list or something and I'll jot it down and then the other guys pitch in and we shut down each other's ideas. You gotta have thick skin around here, because you'll get told that idea is terrible. And then the next thing comes out of your mouth is brilliant. And it's like, oh, wow, that was actually a really good, we should do that one.

David Novak 22:25 

You guys, I imagine in your creative process you have to suspend judgment early on? Or do you guys need to say, Oh, that stinks.

Coby Cotton 22:33 

I think it may be the exact opposite the judgment comes quick and hard. But like Ty said, as long as you're willing to keep throwing out ideas, or a lot of times a terrible idea, somebody has a spark from it. And it gets morphed, and you look back and you're like, well, Kobe, your idea was terrible. But fortunately, we pulled one piece of gold out of it. And then you tell everybody later that it was your idea.

David Novak 22:53 

Now curiously, when you go through this whole process of you know, trying to find the the new ideas now you've you've been five great friends doing this? Have you gotten to the size of business now where you actually try to seek ideas outside of your, your tight nucleus?

Tyler Toney 23:09 

Yeah, we've tried it, we've kind of found that. And I think a lot of people would agree, but nobody knows your business or nobody knows how to efficiently run certain projects like you do. And we've done a good job of hiring internally and offloading a lot of things like the editing, I know, for a long time, we felt like Well, nobody's going to be able to edit a video like Cory like it just can't be done. And we brought Tim and Chad were two of our earliest hires that are still with us today, integral part of the business and now they have a team under them. And that was one of the best decisions we ever made. And so we've found different areas in the business that we can do that. And unfortunately, creative is not one of those, we've been successful at offloading or having additional input. But we're still you know, open to and looking for other ways to do that and keep it fresh. And we're certainly not opposed to that.

David Novak 23:59 

You know, when when I look at your actual business, you've got a YouTube channel, a live arena, tour, apparel, sporting goods and other products, a documentary. And now you're about to host the first ever dude, perfect cruise. Tell us how you came up with that idea and why you thought it was the right next business segment for you to go into the crews,

Coby Cotton 24:19 

specifically something that has actually been pitched to us a number of times over the years. And I think we just laughed and ignored it the first few times. I also think having done the tour for what, three years now. It's given us a better sense of what it looks like to do something live. And we've been able to wrap our minds and our brains around that a little bit more. So when we were most recently approached about doing a cruise, we asked a lot of questions. Turns out it's a pretty common thing for people to do some version of what they call Celebrity Cruises where you go see a band and you get this kind of up close experience on something that you might already be doing for family vacation. So we felt like in concept it would really work. We spent a lot of time coming up with what Those ideas would be I think one piece that makes this especially fun for us versus our Live Tour, which is primarily just dude, perfect. This one, we're bringing along a lot of X people that have been featured and do perfect videos over the years. So there'll be musicians there, there'll be people who've done, you know, card throwing, and magic and X, Pogo jumping tricks and all kinds of stuff that people have seen on our channel for all this time. And so I think it really will feel kind of like this all encompassing. Dude, perfect trip.

David Novak 25:29 

Now, who's vetting all these new business opportunities you have? Because they got to become you got a lot of people, I'm sure just knocking down your door now. And when it's decision time, do you all have equal say, What's that process? Like?

Tyler Toney 25:43 

I would say that is kind of been another aspect of the business that we haven't exactly thrived at or figured out perfectly, because like you mentioned, we do have numerous opportunities every day, they get sent to us. And there's benefits. And there's also, you know, negatives to having five guys, five equal partners in a company. And part of that is it's just tough to make decisions, especially big decisions on a new business venture or something like that by yourself, and you kind of have to have buy in well, it's tough when those five guys are also the ones that are responsible for being on camera and coming up with creative and overseeing the financials and overseeing all the editing and all that stuff. And so that's been something that we haven't totally figured out that we've got to I think in the future, that would be something similar to our editing decision of offloading some of that, once we find the right person or the right team to help vet through some of those new opportunities. That is an area for significant growth for dude, perfect. And I think one that's kind of outside of our expertise right now, because we know what we do well right now. But outside of that is kind of where we struggle to make quick decisions, I guess. And that is certainly an area where we could be a lot better in

David Novak 26:57 

well, it's always great to have upside. And that sounds like one area where you could really find it. And Kobe, I've heard you say you're grateful for the fans who stick with you, when you try new things, you know, how do you get customer feedback?

Coby Cotton 27:10 

We see it in a lot of different ways. YouTube comments come immediately, the moment you release that fishing video, people are telling you what they think about it, the truth for us is people have been overwhelmingly positive in regards to do perfect forever. If you're kind of inside the Dude Perfect sphere, people have really enjoyed what we've created. And again, we hold ourselves to a high bar on that. So we try not to put out anything that we think would be, you know, looked at poorly. But those comments come fast. I think we've loved doing the live tour, because we get real human interaction and feedback from these families. Whereas you're separated on a screen and don't see people's faces for 99% of what we do. It's been really fun to be in person and get that feedback. So I also think the truth is, we're all our own kind of small family. individually. Everybody in our group has kids, we've got 13 kids under seven, we have become the families that we're creating all of this entertainment for and so if our kids and our families enjoy it, that says a lot. And there have been videos, I think that our kids don't watch more than once. So there's a lot to learn from that.

David Novak 28:14 

I used to be in marketing myself. And there's nothing like the honesty of your family members. Like it. And I've heard you describe yourself as five brothers, people tell you, Oh, never get business with your wife, you know, your family. And here you are your five great friends that see each other as brothers. Can you share a story, when that's been the toughest to navigate? Because it can always be like a honeymoon in these kinds of situations?

Tyler Toney 28:41 

Yeah, for us, we at the very beginning, when the twins were doing dude, perfect, full time. Me, Garrett and Cody were all had moved back to Dallas, we had other jobs. It was kind of the first time when like real revenue started coming into the business. And we had to have that conversation of like, Okay, how are we going to split up this money that's coming in? Is it going to the guys that are spending the most time on the business? Is it the guys that are on camera the most? Is it going to, you know, the people whoever. And so that was a really real, really hard conversation that all five of us had, and I don't think anybody would want to ever go back to. And I think, at the end of the day, we all had to lean on the fact that, hey, if we really believe that, you know, we've been given this platform as an opportunity, then, you know, it's not really up to us to decide, okay, well, we're gonna let this thing just dissolve if we can't come to a conclusion on percentages, or who's going to make what and so we ultimately landed on that we needed to be five equal partners going forward, and we were going to do whatever it took to make that work. And I think that was an example of a time when like, probably for a lot of companies is is a major pivot where it does work or it doesn't work. And I think we were all able to put our pride aside and said, Hey, this is how it's going to be going forward. Now let's figure out how to make that work.

David Novak 30:00 

That's definitely was a big challenge, I'm sure. And it's great that you could land in that spot. And I hope that keeps working for you. I think that's awesome. All five of you bring something unique to the table, obviously, or you wouldn't have come to that deal. What does valuing every person's contribution look like? On the larger dude, perfect team, in the sense of you kind of each have areas that you're more in charge of than the other guy.

Coby Cotton 30:24 

We have. Yeah. And honestly, I think that's something that we're fortunate that each guy has really brought something unique to the table. I think that's probably just another confirmation from our end that God had a plan on this, because each of the five guys is very different. And the roles that we started in are very similar to where they are now. I used to handle a lot of the business stuff. Tyler has always been in charge of the creative side, Garrett's always run a lot of the finances and merchandise Cody, The tall guy has always been heavily involved on our social media. And Corey used to do all the editing, like time mentioned, and now is overseeing that team. Among, you know, all the different personalities we have, there was some interest in each of those lanes. And we've continued to stick with that for all these years. And so will everybody's work always be exactly equal? No, it won't. And to Ty's point, you know, when people make decisions about how they're going to split something up, of course, that's the first thing that comes to mind. But we have found and have told people across the years that have asked us about that, I think that was one of the wisest decisions that we ever made. And it's just allowed us to link arms and everybody find ways to contribute and back each other throughout the whole process.

David Novak 31:30 

Well, the fact that you have five distinct lanes made that a lot easier, you know, you're not on top of each other, which is terrific. And I have to tell you, you only have to watch about four seconds of any of your videos to see that you guys are wildly competitive. Why? How in the world? Do you keep it in check?

Tyler Toney 31:49 

Yeah, I was gonna say, we don't actually, the good news for us is everything that we do is edited and trimmed and made to look like we kind of keep it all in check. When we have half the battles and competitions that we do probably get a little bit too out of hand because of the competitiveness. And luckily, that stuff just gets edited out on the cutting room floor. And then you know, you guys are presented with a nice, clean, wholesome version of Dude Perfect. And you don't get to see a little bit of the competitiveness that happens where somebody gets in a bad mood because somebody broke a rule of a game that we just made up five seconds ago.

Coby Cotton 32:25 

We are all very prideful individuals. And that along with the competitiveness doesn't always add up for a recipe of success. We've joked we do a series called all sports golf where we go out on a golf course and we use everything but golf to work your way down the fairway. And we've done that with a couple of celebrities at this point. And you would think that the celebrity being there is enough to keep us in check and to actually handle ourselves well, but when you get in the heat of that competition, all of a sudden, you're making a fool of yourself in front of somebody that you know you've always respected sorry, Zac Efron, we need you to sit right there. While we hash this out, we tried to figure out whether hitting that badminton twice was worth one or two strokes.

David Novak 33:08 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with the Dude Perfect guys that just above it. But hearing Ty and Kobe talk about prioritizing quality reminds me a lot of the conversation I had with Scott Mahoney, the Chairman and CEO, Peter Miller, you know, a lot of brands reduced their product quality in order to boost their profits. But Scott thinks about it differently. He's willing to invest in the right resources to make their products the absolute best they can be. It's not about margin, it's doing it right. It's controlling distribution, it's doing the right things, it's treating your customers, right, make your products great. And having integrity in your company and in your products. Great things happen when we go the distance for quality. If you want to see how he does it, check out my entire conversation with Scott Mahoney episode 60 here on how leaders lead.

You know, all of this doesn't happen without massive amounts of preparation. For example, you'd never been on a tour and let alone an arena tour before and, you know, how did you learn about the tour business and how to make it really work for you guys?

Tyler Toney 34:25 

The tour was something that we had kind of tossed around for a couple years and we always wondered like, how would we even pull that off? What would it look like nobody's gonna want to sit in an arena and watch us miss trick shots over and over and over and then hopefully finally make one after an hour. And so once we kind of came out with the overtime series, that became a little bit more clear to us as to what a live show might look like. And honestly going into that first tour we did 21 shows I believe, we had no idea what to expect. We didn't know how many people would show up. We didn't know if they would enjoy it. We didn't know if that was something that was going to be a one and done deal, or if we would even finish the first tour, and to go out there and really for us, for the first time see all of our fans in person and see their reactions like Kobe alluded to earlier. Before that it was literally almost entirely digital reaction. So comments or likes or hearts or whatever social platform was doing it at that time. And it really reassured us like Man, this is a nother massive opportunity and just an avenue that we can kind of take this business and now we've done probably close to 100 live shows, I would guess and probably had over a million people at those shows, which is kind of a crazy in today's digital world. It doesn't sound that nuts, but to have a million people in person at something is still

David Novak 35:47 

no, it sounds pretty nuts to me, you know, it gets unbelievable. And you guys built this business in large part by just following your gut. And you've been very, very right. But tell me a story about when you had an incredible conviction that something was going to be a big idea. And you were dead wrong. And what you learned from it, or has that happened? Well, we've

Coby Cotton 36:07 

never had any ideas as big as Stuffed Crust Pizza. Among some of the you have been heavily involved in. But I remember in college, we were young, fresh green, naive, we were ready to launch a merch business, I think it was myself and Cody. And we get some T shirts printed with Dude Perfect on them. They look sharp, we got nice hangers, we've walked them around to the college bookstores, we put on our smiling faces. And we said guys, this is the shirt of the year, these are gonna move you're gonna want to stock up. And maybe our salesmanship was at an all time high that day. But those bookstores, they bought those shirts, and we came back over the course of the year. And I don't think they sold a t shirt. I mean, by the end of the year, they had clearance all over on they were as marked down as they could physically be. It was a little early on the merchandise front. What did you learn from that? That it wasn't the right timing, right? It's not that a do perfect t shirt would never sell. But the specific place and timing that we were trying to do that just wasn't a fit. And we've had that happen on a number of occasions, you know, we've come out with video ideas or series as before, that just didn't click the way that we had envisioned. And I think we know it, you know, I think we know as soon as we launch it, and that's okay. You know, that's one of the beauties of being in a business like ours, where you can react quickly. And it's not typically something that we've been working on for two years. And then you launched this, you know, brand new pilot, and you've invested as much into it, as you know, some of the other industries do.

David Novak 37:33 

You know, I've read where you're building a brand new 100 million dollar headquarters and entertainment destination. Tell me about how you guys have thought through the design to reinforce the kind of culture you want to create for this team that you've now have. I mean, how many people do you guys have working with you right now?

Tyler Toney 37:49 

Yes, we've got about 25 Guys in house now. So still a relatively small team for us four years ago, it was a fourth of that size. And so we have significantly added to that team from our standards. But I think overall, it's still a would be considered a relatively small team. But yeah, the factory is another idea that we have, have had for a while didn't really know how we were going to pull off maybe the residual from the merchandise failure was still kind of with us. And we're like, hey, we don't want to pull the trigger too early here. But after going out on tour, we felt like, hey, creating a destination that brings families together is something that we've always wanted to do. And we really felt like we found the right partners to help us pull that off, in like what you were talking about in the design of it. And we've had ideas for this thing for I mean, legitimately for years now that we've just kind of kept a notes page on and tried to incorporate a lot of the very unique things that you've only seen in Dude Perfect videos, we've tried to incorporate as many of those into this factory into this destination, whatever we ended up calling it as we possibly could. And so one of the aspects of the factory is this huge 350 foot tower. Now people will be able to actually go up to the top, throw a basketball off the tower and actually try and make their own shot and win whatever the prize is that month, whether it's a you know, cash prize, or a new truck, or whatever it may be. We're doing one of the famous baseball shots we did in the video was throwing a baseball through the moving car. And so we want to get a car on a track, have the windows down and let people actually pick, you know, the miles per hour that the car comes by at try their hand at throwing the baseball through the moving car shot.

David Novak 39:29 

Awesome. I can't wait to show up for that with you. So you've got these 25 people and you're going to your growth business you're going to I'm sure you're going to be adding people. How do you guys think about your culture in the work environment that you really want to drive home?

Coby Cotton 39:43 

We've always had a real balance between fun and kind of project based work around here. It's very much there's consistency in terms of like Ty said how often we're creating content but it is wildly different from episode to episode or type of content like you Amazon Thursday night football thing you know, versus what we would be doing in a phishing video in Panama. So regardless of the type of content if the team working on that can get that project done, we've extended a lot of trust on when they work on that. We're pretty nine to five around here. And especially in terms of when we film, as we've all had families ourselves, that's been something that has been important to us. It doesn't mean that every editor is only working between nine to five, but we have tried our best to make that the case. So people have really enjoyed working here. It's a ton of fun. We have a pickleball court in the office, you're not unlike to see somebody playing pickleball or Mario Kart in the middle of the workday, but the team works hard around here. And that hasn't been something that we've had to deal with just yet.

David Novak 40:45 

That's great. You know, guys, this has been so much fun, and I'd like to have a little bit more fun with what my call my lightning round of questions. Are you guys ready for this? All right, Ty. Three words that best describe you

Tyler Toney 40:57 

competitive, outdoorsman, and hairy

David Novak 41:02 

goby. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

Coby Cotton 41:06 

Kevin Hart?

David Novak 41:08 

Because I don't know. I

Coby Cotton 41:09 

just like to see what his world is like. You want to be funny? Yeah, I want to be funny like that. Just one day.

David Novak 41:14 

Ty What's your biggest pet peeve?

Tyler Toney 41:17 

Soggy beef jerky?

David Novak 41:19 

Goby, you've taken a rocket ship into space? What's one word or phrase you would use to describe the experience?

Coby Cotton 41:27 

On inspiring?

David Novak 41:28 

You guys have done a skit on Best Movie candies. Ty what's your favorite

Tyler Toney 41:33 

milk? duds?

David Novak 41:35 

Kobe? What's yours?

Coby Cotton 41:36 

Um, Sour Patch Kids.

David Novak 41:37 

Thai? You are so right. You are so thank you. Appreciate ya Thai. What's the most amount of time it's taken to successfully capture a single trick shot video.

Tyler Toney 41:47 

Two days, the world's largest sling shot that we probably filmed 12 years ago, we made our own sling shot out of a giant tree. And we made it too good because it launched the ball way too far. And it took absolutely forever to make it.

David Novak 42:02 

Kobe described the last I can't believe this is happening to me moment.

Coby Cotton 42:06 

While space was certainly the most recent, but the one before that, I would say we met Tiger Woods recently. And I was telling somebody else he is just a different presence. You're standing there staring next to Tiger and you're like Callie, that's Tiger Woods. I felt it in that moment.

David Novak 42:21 

Till I watch something about you that few people would know.

Tyler Toney 42:25 

I'm really really bad at Rock, paper, scissors.

David Novak 42:29 

Kobe. If you turn on the radio in your car, what would we hear?

Coby Cotton 42:33 

It's on sports on Dallas Sports Radio right now.

David Novak 42:36 

There you go. You know,

Tyler Toney 42:37 

I gotta I gotta ask you a question. Now true or false? Did you invent Cool Ranch Doritos? True. True. Oh, my God, what a legend. Incredible. Okay, my source was correct. And I needed to verify that. And that is one of the most incredible.

David Novak 42:56 

I also invented. I also made a Crystal Pepsi do.

Tyler Toney 43:00 

I heard that as well.

Coby Cotton 43:02 

But the Cool Ranch Doritos overpower Crystal Pepsi in a big way? Yeah.

David Novak 43:08 

All right. We're out of the lightning round. Just a few questions, we'll wrap this up. You know, I love the fact that you guys, so openly talk about your faith. And it's very, very important to you. How does it affect how you show up as a leader?

Coby Cotton 43:21 

I think like Tom mentioned, the five of us are all Christians. And it's very important to own your own mistakes. And I think that has given us an opportunity even as five very competitive prideful guys to have moments of humility throughout and admit when we've screwed something up, whether that's we call an owner's box meeting between just the five of us, and you know, we're reconciling something going on there. And we say, you know, I'll fall on my sword if that was my mistake. And we need to own that. We tried to do that in front of the whole team as well. And I do think that's an important part of leadership. Because if people are not willing to own their mistakes in something, then they're just going to hide them. And it's going to take a long time for you to figure out when something went wrong. You know, I've

David Novak 44:03 

heard you guys say that there's so much more to life than just filling up a stadium. And I love what you guys do with Make a wish. Can you tell us one of your favorite maker wish stories?

Tyler Toney 44:16 

For us? It's just always a great reminder of why we do this. And I think it's very easy for us to get caught up when we're out on the road or when we're making a video. And okay, hey, this is you know, where the next check is coming from. This is the next piece of content that we're doing hope it performs well. But when you go out on tour and meet a family that is like really going through a tough time. And a lot of times unfortunately, it involves their kids and young people and it is a incredible reminder of the opportunity that we have even to just make somebody laugh or take their mind off of the situation that they're going through where Getting with these organizations like Make A Wish is an incredible constant reminder of the why we do a lot of this, you

David Novak 45:08 

You granted 24 maker wishes, I think in 2019. And you just you took all these kids that were just suffering and families that are suffering along with them and you, you brightened up their life. And I was really pleased to see that you were named the 2019. Celebrity of the year for Make a wish. So congratulations on that. That's fantastic. And you guys have wives, and some of you have young kids, and you know, your growth is just amazing, you know, how do you stay grounded now with all the success and prioritize things that are most important to you in your life? It's gotta be a challenge.

Tyler Toney 45:42 

Yeah, it is, I think, you know, we talked about the benefits and the negatives of having five guys. And that is by far one of the benefits is having five guys and then especially that share our Christian faith is, to me the only reason why we're still doing this 13 years later. And there's not a lot of examples of people with kind of five equal partners out there that have been doing something so long, especially in a public facing business. And we truly believe that, that is the reason why we're still doing it. And we have each other to keep each other accountable and grounded. And you know, the Bible talks about iron sharpens iron. And that is very much a realistic thing here at Dude Perfect and something that we don't always do well, but try to keep it the front of our minds every single day here.

David Novak 46:30 

You know, since you've started your YouTube channel in 2009, you've racked up the 15 billion views we talked about if you could go back to the very beginning and give yourself a pep talk. What advice would you give yourself, knowing what you know today?

Coby Cotton 46:43 

I mean, I think I would tell myself that there's gonna be natural highs and lows just like anybody building a business. And like you mentioned earlier, there's going to be good and bad parts about doing it with friends, but that it would all be worth it. And like Ty said, reminding myself of how much it was going to mean to millions. And I guess billions of families at this point over the course of that time would really help all of that hard work be worth it. Because there's times when you don't think about the result in a project that you're working really hard on. And we have now have the benefit of looking back and seeing how impactful it's been. But like you said, That's not always the case at the beginning.

David Novak 47:23 

Great advice, you know, and we're gonna wrap this up with one last question. I'd like each of you to answer first Kobe, what's one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders?

Coby Cotton 47:32 

I think the humility piece is the biggest one I can point to is being willing to admit, when you've made a mistake, and owning that, and not feeling like you have to stand on every one of your ideas is your own idea, give credit to the people around you and help people understand that they're as big of a part of the success as you are, regardless of their level on the team. And I think a lot of that comes down to humility and leading, leading in that way.

David Novak 47:57 

Ty, what about you,

Tyler Toney 47:59 

I would say probably two things. One is something that one of my old coaches used to say he was actually our superintendent, but we'd always play pickup basketball. And something he would always say is hustle wins games. And that hustle can overcome a lot of flaws and lack of talent. And for somebody that never had a lot of talent, and a lot of the different areas that were involved in now, hard work can tend to be a replacement for that. And so that may sound like a silly one or something that is I don't know, a little bit more cliche, but I think the other one would be everybody has something that they can bring to the table, everybody's got some something that they excel at something that they're good at. And it's finding those different things and recognizing those and then encouraging those aspects. And understanding that different people that you hire, and different people that you work with are not necessarily always going to be good at the same things that you are. And that's actually a good thing. You don't don't want that to be the case where you have all that overlap and, and the things that you excel in and encouraging those qualities that you recognize in people and helping them realize the qualities that they have can sometimes be big in the fact that they might not even recognize them themselves.

David Novak 49:14 

You know, guys, I was so looking forward to this podcast, because I knew you were great, guys. I mean, you are absolutely awesome individuals. And I know your whole team is that and I want to thank you for taking the time to be with me. But more importantly, I want to thank you for the difference I think you're making in so many people's lives. You know, we need a little laughter these days, you definitely provide that. You also take the time to help people that are less fortunate than you and you know that what you do can really make a difference and you're making a difference. And I really appreciate you taking the time. It's been a lot of fun for me so I there's only one way guys that I know how to really wrap this podcast up it, pound it not so Hiya.

Coby Cotton 50:01 

Let's go. Thank you, David, we appreciate it a ton fantastic questions good being with you today.

David Novak 50:14 

Man, I never get tired of hearing our smart people work together to create amazing things. And dude, perfect is no exception. You know, the videos may be fun. But the strategy, the partnership, the commitment to excellence that goes into them are serious business for the Dude Perfect guys, it's all about delivering first class entertainment. And that means they may need to actually do a little less in order to keep the quality level high. They're taking fewer sponsorships, but they're making sure the ones that they do partner with are the right fit. They're publishing videos less frequently, because they want to make sure each one is unique. And each one is entertaining. You know what, sometimes less really is more, by being more selective Dude Perfect is creating more trust and more engagement with their audience. And they're standing the test of time. So let's pause here and ask, is there an area of your business where you need to put quality over quantity? Where do you need more time and money to make something better? And how can you free up those resources by doing less? Maybe it's your product offering, or your social media strategy? Hey, it could even be your weekly meeting schedule. I want to challenge you to find one area this week to be more selective, where less can be more and just watch how it impacts your overall business. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is the great leaders put quality over quantity. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Chris Kim Chesky, President and CEO of McDonald's

Chris Kempczinski 51:52 

anytime that I can show up at a restaurant, I want it to be a celebration, I want it to be something that's positive. When I'm going in. I think a lot of times there's this perception of I'm going in to inspect I'm going in to find problems or see if you know this, what's not working. And it's actually the opposite. I'm going in to find examples of things that are going great. So that I can put a spotlight on where people are really doing great work and have that be something that inspires and goes through the rest of the system because those I find are much more motivational to focus on the good stuff, as opposed to kind of just nitpicking and saying, Well, this could be better, this could be better.

David Novak 52:29 

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. You won't want to miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be