David Novak 0:04 

Hey everybody, welcome to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, my guest today is Lindsey champ coma. And she is the CEO and co founder of a company called casted their whole mission is to help businesses understand the return they're getting from podcasts, and other amplified marketing channels. Now, clearly, you and I both love podcast, it's so does Lindsey. For her, they forge a connection like nothing else can. And let me tell you, every marketer needs to find ways to connect with customers on that kind of human level. And so does every leader. When you focus on connection, both in your marketing and in your leadership, you're going to unlock a whole new level of trust and growth in your business. So without further ado, here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Lindsey, chaff kkOma.

You know, Lindsey, you are the podcast guru, one of the biggest podcast viewers in the world. Can you give us any interesting factoids on podcasts these days?

Lindsay Tjepkema 1:26 

Oh, my goodness, there's a reason that the people that are listening here today are listening. It's because as humans, we are hardwired for connection, right? It's a basic human need. And for businesses that makes it a basic business need, if we can connect on a human level, the brands that do so and do so successfully are more likely to thrive. And that's why podcasts are so strong as an entertainment format. And also as a content marketing channel.

David Novak 1:50 

You know, companies who create and publish content are up against a lot of competition these days to get people's attention. Tell me about the work you do and cast it and how you come alongside businesses to solve this problem, creating that ability to get people's attention.

Lindsay Tjepkema 2:06 

Right that that is always the goal isn't it is to get that attention and to maintain that attention and to keep that attention focused on the brand and then coming back. And for us, my background is in marketing. So I spent 15 years in b2b marketing before starting casted. And the whole purpose is to empower b2b marketers to to maximize and measure the impact of their content and to really be able to focus on creativity and connection. And as casted be that bridge between that creativity and that connective tissue, to the results that achieves and the attention of that audience. Because as marketers, you really want to go be creative, and you want to do things that matter and that are rich and relevant. And that people are going to say, Wow, that really meant something to me, that was relevant to me, that was entertaining to me that was engaging to me, and to be able to focus on that and then say, Okay, here's the ROI that it drove. Here's the results that drove here are the accounts and the people and the brains and the eyeballs that paid attention to what I made. That's really what we're doing is saying, hey, marketer, you go focus on being that that connective tissue between your brand and your audience, and we're going to help you prove its ROI.

David Novak 3:10 

Now you have this thing called the amplified marketing platform. What is that?

Lindsay Tjepkema 3:14 

Yeah, that is very near and dear to my heart. Because spending a lifetime in b2b marketing. I've seen b2b marketing and content marketing in particular come on to the stage and be introduced as this new thing that said, Hey, go blog, right it was it was all very written very textual, go write things that you're it's going to be relevant to your audience, go write things that are going to matter. Make sure that they rank on SEO, make sure that they rank on Google so that they can be found. Go do that. And that's been the playbook for the last 20 years. Right. And that playbook was written before. Things like what we're doing right now, podcasts before video streaming before smartphones before iPads, but the playbook has remained the same. And it's still goal blog, blog, blog, blog blog, with the goal to rank Oh, in in your abundant spare time, do cool things like this that are really rich and engaging audio and video content. So amplified marketing says, let's turn that upside down. Let's start here. Let's start with the conversation like you and I are having right now that's rich and engaging and really draws people in because they want to listen in on these conversations that we're having. Start there, and then wring it out, amplify it across other channels beyond just the podcast. So how can we use clips from this show on social media? How can we use the transcript from the show to drive blog posts? How can we empower our salespeople with with little key takeaways from this conversation, to amplify its impact on the brand and then measure it in ways that really matter to the business? You know,

David Novak 4:46 

why podcast you know, what is it about this particular industry that you feel you can latch on to and what makes it such a big opportunity that you'd actually go out on your own and start a company on it?

Lindsay Tjepkema 4:58 

Wild right, I know well, Well, because I mentioned it's there's connection here, people who are listening to our conversation, they are going to feel more connected on a human level to you. And to me than they would have if they read a blog post that either one of us wrote or read some ad copy for either one of our businesses, as effective as those things might be. I'm a huge proponent of blogs, I'm a huge proponent of really great website content and, and written content I love to write, but nothing replaces, hearing someone's inflection in their voice and hearing someone's excitement or disappointment, just the emotion that's there, in being able to listen in on a conversation that's being held. Nothing really replaces that you just on a human level, feel more connected. And as as you know better than than anyone, that connection to a brand is so important, when somebody feels connected on a human level to a brand, they're going to be more likely to trust that brand. And when you trust a brand you buy from the brand. And that's what ultimately what we're all trying to do as marketers is build that trust, build that credibility, build that loyalty. And podcasting is such a great way to do that, because it's so authentic. And it's so human.

David Novak 6:15 

You know, everyone understands this idea of ROI, return on investment. But you talk about ROI. And I'm not talking about return on equity, you talk about return on effort. Why should we be focusing on return on effort as business leaders?

Lindsay Tjepkema 6:32 

It's important to measure what you're putting in, right, which is your investment. But also when we're talking about effort? What is the work that's been put into it? What are the different endeavors? What are the different pieces and components are being put into it, and actually, something that I've been talking about really recently, is the idea of return on creativity. So if I'm going to go and I'm going to focus on being really creative, putting the effort into being creative, putting creative energy into saying, who is my audience? What can I do to be really creative, to do something that they're going to find interesting, engaging, entertaining, educational? How can I create that thing? That's great. But what we've all been told as business people, as marketing people, is you can't really measure creativity, creativity, you go, you do it to be creative, not to generate some kind of return. And I say, not so fast. What if we could generate some kind of return on that creativity and say, If I invest this much in being creative, and I invest in this creative endeavor, and I make this art, I make this thing, I have this conversation, I capture it, I do this thing that is really rich and engaging, I'm going to focus on that, how can I say as a marketer, that that was worth it, and that that built brand, and that that generated revenue. And so that's what we're working on casted is to say, how can we support our customers and our clients and, and those who do amplified marketing and adopt this approach, if you go focus on being creative, and you go focus on making real human connections, we are going to be the platform and the methodology that supports you in generating a return and measuring a return on that creative effort.

David Novak 8:14 

So you know, creating these human connections that builds that bond with your customers, and then that creativity obviously, helps you stand out with your customers. You know, when you think of those two things, and you know, those are obviously important, are there two or three other things that you advise people on how to use marketing in terms of how to rise above the noise?

Lindsay Tjepkema 8:36 

I always say, and this is so foundational, and so just marketing 101, but I think because of that it's often overlooked. And that is always ask yourself, Who is it for? Why am I doing it. And that for sure applies to podcasting. Because people want to jump in, they get really excited, either they have a boss that say, Hey, we need to podcast we need to do this thing, or it's from themselves. And they're like, I finally got the budget, or I finally got the green light to do a podcast and they want to jump right in and just start having conversations and recording. And those are when you get the podcasts where they're talking to business leaders and interns and product managers and industry leaders, and it's all over the place. And when you try to be something for everyone, you're not really anything for anyone. So the better you can know your audience. Who is this for? Who is this truly for? And why am I doing am I doing to generate leads by doing it to generate brand affinity? Am I doing it to educate? Am I doing it to serve like, why am I doing it? That's when you get really great art is when you can be really focused, and what you're making this for and what goal you're trying to achieve. Because then you can also measure it right? If you don't know why you're doing something, it's really hard to measure whether or not it's successful. So I think that's really important and really often overlooked. And then give yourself the freedom to break it up. I think that there's this common misconception that you need to go all in all in and all the things forever and ever are. And when you're talking about a podcast or a video series or any type of content, a blog series, any marketing, it helps to, once you determine who it's for and what you're doing it to give yourself permission to kind of break it up into chunks and say we're gonna do a series, we're going to do one thing, we're gonna do a package of content, we're gonna do one series, and then we're gonna pause, and we're gonna reflect, we're gonna measure, and we're gonna give ourselves the opportunity to, to understand what worked, what didn't, and try something a little bit different. As long as you're staying focused on who it's for and why you're doing it. You can get take some creative freedom in there about how you're going to do it, and what you might optimize to be that much stronger.

David Novak 10:38 

I want to dive into more into how you lead Lindsey, because you're an excellent leader, and a great, great communicator, obviously. But first, I want to take us back a little bit. Tell us a story from your childhood that impacted the kind of leader that you are today.

Lindsay Tjepkema 10:53 

My mom being a teacher, obviously, she's my mom. So she impacted me in a lot of ways. But I think in particular, being a teacher meant a lot of things. One, she worked, but she was around a lot, right. And that's that's kind of beautiful balance. She was the breadwinner in our family as a teacher, and she was there she was there for all the concerts and all the you know, recitals and all the things in summer, summer breaks, she was round because she was a teacher. But she also I saw how much her work meant to her and how much her students meant to her and how much education meant to her and how much how important in today's terms, delivering content that matters and that lands and that resonates is important, and there is no one size fits all. And I think also, you know, modest upbringing and Midwestern you know, Lansing, Michigan, there's a lot to be said for that Midwestern work ethic. And my husband was also born and raised in Lansing, Michigan. And so I think we share that.

David Novak 11:42 

And you've been in marketing and content positions, basically your entire career, what drives that obvious passion you have for the work that you do,

Lindsay Tjepkema 11:51 

all the way through school, I love school, I love learning. And I love creativity. I thought for a minute, I wanted to be a music major, and I want to be a theater major. And I wanted to be an English major. And then I want to be a graphic design major. And all those things kind of come together as marketing, right? You gotta love language and words and storytelling, you've got to love communicating, you've got to love creativity. And the theater part of me, I do a lot of speaking now. And so that's it's really helpful to be comfortable on a stage too. So from there, once I found marketing and starting heading internships in college, it was just so obvious to me that this is where I belonged. It's, there's enough art. But there's also as you know, quite a lot of science in the data that drives it all. And so I fell in love, I became a big, big marketing nerd. And I put all of my nerd rocks that I had into the marketing basket. And I have just loved watching the industry evolve so quickly around different technologies and kind of lead the way in a lot of sense. And then as soon as I got into tech and marketing and marketing technology, marketing marketing to marketers is basically the holy grail of marketing. And so it's Yeah, I can't imagine doing anything else.

David Novak 13:11 

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Looking back on your career, Lindsey tell me about an experience that taught you the most that you're still benefiting from today.

Lindsay Tjepkema 14:07 

I had a boss that actually inherited me. I was an intern, starting my junior year in college at an Economic Development Corporation. I just kind of fell into the internship. I worked there for a year and a half. They promised me a full time job once I graduated, the CEO left and then I got married right after I graduated from college. And right in that time between me graduating and getting married, we got this new CEO and he came in and he didn't really know what to think about this brand new college graduate running marketing was this very small team of like eight people. And I was doing all of marketing, PR communications events, website, all of the art press conferences, everything was all me and he didn't really love that idea. So he tested me a lot and I kept on rising to the occasion and just kept working Think harder and pushing harder. And at some point, he decided I was okay. And, and what came from that is he gave me all kinds of experiences that, that he just can't open the floodgates and was like, Okay, you pass. And I ended up leading a press tour for him, where I went into the Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg and all kinds of really cool places as this, you know, 22 year old, and I learned a lot quickly, and he gave me a lot quickly, and I got to meet some really cool people. And I grew up really fast and kind of had a confidence in myself and what I was capable of, really early on, because he once he finally believed in me, he believed in me all in. And that kind of changed everything for me and taught me some things that I also don't want to do for anybody that I inherit either.

David Novak 15:44 

Well, there's good and bad that comes with the story. But it's really is a big thing. When you have a naysayer that you can win over. You know, it gives you the confidence that you can take off and you obviously did and and before you started casted you were the Global Head of Content. And then the VP of branding content for Emirates. Tell us about Emirates. And what was the greatest insight that you had that pulled from your time leading a global brand? What did you get out of that experience?

Lindsay Tjepkema 16:17 

Oh, man, so many things I had worked at global companies before, I think that was my third. But leading a truly global team, being able to focus on branded content exclusively was really exciting for me, I got to start my first podcast, which I mean, you can see where that went. But I think, gosh, so many things from from cultural nuances, seeing those live and in person and up close, and really being able to embrace them and, and highlight them and know that we are better for our diversity and in so many different ways. Like really, really, truly seeing that on such a global scale. And being able to point out our differences and work together to say, Okay, how are we literally going to represent our differences from language to cultures to timezones in a way that makes sense for the brand and for the business. That was pretty cool, and pretty big learning. And then also, I think, especially when we talk about brand and content, and global, you bring your own experiences, you bring your own culture, you bring your own understanding about what's going to resonate and what's not. And when that's amplified on a global scale, it lands differently, right. And you have things that don't work so well in other cultures and don't work so well in other situations, or even for certain selling processes, right? Something that is super helpful in the UK that I could create, or that my team could create wouldn't be helpful at all, and some other market. And so that was really interesting. And so I think, boiling it down. The importance of listening, the importance of observing the importance of asking a lot of questions, really, really stuck with me, and then kind of bringing it all back to podcast, podcast resonated with everyone, because everybody loves a good conversation, truly. And so when we could bring our customers on, when we could bring our products people on when we could bring in people that mattered to our audience, again, who it's for, and why are we doing it? It resonated with everyone because everyone loves to listen in on a good conversation.

David Novak 18:12 

Marketers have to really define what business you're in. What business was Emerson, how would you define that?

Lindsay Tjepkema 18:19 

This was just a couple of years ago, but it's eons ago, and you know, marketing technology land, we were in the space of personalization, and AI driven personalization, personalization at scale. And so we were a b2b company serving b2c companies. And so we were trying to help companies around the world deliver more personalized experiences in their e commerce businesses and their e commerce brands. And so to the extent that we could help them, personalize it, scale and use technology to deliver more human centric, human optimized interactions, that was what success was for us, and what success was for our customers.

David Novak 19:00 

What was the moment Lindsey, when you knew you had to take this leap and launch a startup?

Lindsay Tjepkema 19:05 

Well, I experienced the problem firsthand, I was really frustrated by it. And then I saw the opportunity to go be the change I wanted to see and unpacking that a little bit. So I had a show, much like we're on right now hit podcast, on behalf of the brand was called marketer and machine. And it was doing really well our CEO was a big fan. He told me all the time, like I had that thumbs up, like I had that leg up, I had that advantage that our CEO and my CMO, everybody was like all in thought it was great. So much so that my CEO one day was like, I love the show. It's so great. You guys are doing so great. I can't wait to see what it's doing for the brand. Like how much business is it generating how many customers have we've gotten as a result? And I was like, I don't know. Like, that's not a thing. We can't measure that or that data and telling the CEO of a marketing technology company that your marketing campaign cannot be tied to business results. Doesn't land well. What do you mean you can't prove revenue? That doesn't make any sense? So we duct taped together what we could I'd improved, you know, whatever, ROI we could. But that was a real frustration to me that no amount of money, no technology existed to do what I needed it to do, nothing existed to work in the way our team needed to work and to use the content across other platforms and around the world to measure its impact. And so that frustrated me and actually, you know, before he started recording, we were talking about Scott Dorsey, who we both know very well, he and I were talking about the opportunity in b2b podcasting. And you know, what we thought was going to be there in the future and how it was going to be a part of b2b marketing. And I said, look, it's it's not going to be a thing, it's going to be the thing. And I think it needs to be the center of all content marketing, as we know it. I think conversations need to be at the center. I think it's time that b2b Content Marketing got up ended. I think the playbook needs to be rewritten. And he said, Oh, really? Well, that's interesting. And then, once we had that conversation, I couldn't unsee it. And it became so obvious to me that if anybody was going to do it, it had to be me. And I didn't want to see anybody else do it. I wanted to go do it myself. So I teamed up with him and his venture studio high alpha and did the dang thing. Here I am three years later.

David Novak 21:07 

That's great. But how are you getting at this quantifying the impact of podcasting and the content that you do? Because that frustrated you? So you wanted to solve that problem? How do you do it?

Lindsay Tjepkema 21:18 

Yeah, little pieces at a time over the last three years, you know, we never stopped pursuing that, you know, our why is the whole reason we exist is to empower b2b marketers to maximize and measure the value of their creativity and have their connection, right, like so a lot of what we've been talking about today, that started from day one, saying we serve b2b marketers, there are lots of podcast tools. There are lots of content marketing philosophies, there's lots of these things, but nothing brings it all together, for b2b marketers, in a way that helps them put audio and video content at the center of their strategy. And we're going to go do that. So everything that we create helps marketers to be more effective in their marketing in their in their b2b content, and then also to measure it in ways that really matter to b2b marketers. So a lot of podcast tools, for example, will help you understand number of downloads, that might be helpful if you're trying to monetize your podcast and sell ads, but it's not so helpful if you're a brand trying to understand engagement. So what do we focus on? Engagement? So we understand and provide information about where are people coming from? Where are people going to? What topics are they engaging in? What are they most excited about? And in a product that we released a couple months ago, we even connected the dots to who so not just how many people are engaging, but actually who down to the account level is engaging in your content? And what does that do that makes it actionable by a sales team that makes it actionable by a marketing team that can provide more account driven content to the accounts that really matter to most of their brand. And we're really trying hard to continue to innovate in that way, to really serve b2b marketers and getting as much value as possible out of the content and actually proving its worth to the business.

David Novak 23:00 

And what's the greatest challenge Lindsey, for you in starting up your business? Once you've been at it? I think for about three years, right? What's been the biggest challenge?

Lindsay Tjepkema 23:09 

You know, I think it's for me as as the CEO, first time CEO, for some founder, the most exciting part is also really hard part, which is constantly being outside of your comfort zone and constantly living in a new space and navigating new waters and navigating uncharted territory. And that is across the board that is with this, you know, category, that we're creating this product that we're building, this brand that we're building, it's you know, for me as a leader, as our company grows, the market is crazy right now, what does that mean for us as we grow? And for other companies like us? What's new? What's next? How do we continue to serve our people and our customers? Well, how do we continue to ask new questions that are going to make us better? That's both exciting and challenging, and constantly focusing on keeping people as the focus both our customers and our people, and we keep them at the center when we want and need to grow so fast.

David Novak 24:04 

I have always felt that one of my secret weapons was my marketing background, and how I brought that way of thinking into all my leadership that I did. How does being a marketer impact the way how you show up as a CEO of casting?

Lindsay Tjepkema 24:19 

I could not agree more. David, I think that marketers make really good business leaders and CEOs because one we do this a lot. We present and we talk and we represent the brand and we represent the business and I think as a marketer that serves you well, I mean, your job as a marketer is tying pieces together, storytelling, communicating, communicating purpose, communicating vision, that's really important for a CEO and I think it's it comes naturally for a marketer. I think having a balance of of art and science being data driven and understanding that everything you do needs to drive results but also, it needs to resonate and it needs to hit people in the heart and mean something I think that's where marketers really shine too. And I think that businesses that prioritize brand, and marketing from day one, are a lot stronger. When you wait to do that later, it's really hard to make up for lost time. Like you could have a really strong product and all these things really strong, and then you wait to build marketing later, you're already in the hole. And the marketers see that too. I don't know, like, from day one, your brand exists, whether you're intentional about it or not. So you've got to be intentional about it from day one. So I couldn't agree more. I think marketers make really strong CEOs.

David Novak 25:34 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Lindsay and just a moment. But you know, this idea of connection isn't just important in our marketing, it's also important in how we communicate. Lauren Hobart is the CEO of Dick's Sporting Goods, and she has some incredible insights into how you can communicate better with your team. By making a connection. The weekly

Lindsay Tjepkema 25:55 

touch bases that I schedule with each individual direct report of mine are the one thing on my calendar that I will protect no matter what. So you know, if I can't do anything in a week, other than have one touch base meeting with everybody, because I'm traveling, or I'm unavailable, or meetings, that is what I protect, because that's where I really connect with people and also hear what's going on and get the real deal.

David Novak 26:16 

Check out my full conversation with Lauren, Episode 27, here on how leaders lead.

You have a very clear mission for your company, how do you go about motivating the people that you lead around this noble cause that you have to help your customers,

Lindsay Tjepkema 26:40 

you know, we all our heads down, we're all building and running fast and trying to serve our customers well. And I think it's important to remind the team and each other that we're doing something that's never been done before proving the value of your content on your business and providing clarity on not just how many people are engaging, but who down to the account level who was engaging, like that's, there's so much of what we're doing, that's never been done before. And that's exciting. I mean, that's really, really cool. And we really have the opportunity to change the world of b2b marketing as we know it, and I believe it, I can see it, I can feel it. And I think that when you can help people to see that they're part of something bigger. And that it's not just me up here saying this was my experience as a b2b marketer. But when we get that validation from our customers that say, oh, my gosh, this is how we've been doing things forever, and you changed it, or I've never been able to see this amount of clarity, I've never been able to do this thing before. We get that kind of a lot from our customers. And that's, that's really exciting, we can see that you're part of something bigger, that's exhilarating. You know,

David Novak 27:52 

I agree. You know, there's so much competition out there, not only from a business standpoint, but just for top talent. In what ways are you creating your culture to attract the kinds of team members that you believe will help your company thrive?

Lindsay Tjepkema 28:06 

Well, there's a lot to be said for just being human, and listening and caring. And I've gone off on tangents recently about flexibility and the four day workweek, and it seems to be the perk does your have a lot of companies and like we're just going to do, you know, Friday's off and, and to me, that that bothers me. Because again, on the human level, what really matters. And I know, it's not for everyone, but our team wants flexibility. And they say that again, and again. And for some people, that means showing up late and some people that means leaving early or, you know, cutting out early on Wednesdays, for whatever personal reason, and a lot of people that does mean having a light day or a Friday's off, right, but it's not one size fits all. And so it's just one example, you know, can we do straight up flexibility, and you do you and here's how we support the team, so that you can do you and how we communicate so that everybody understands how different people work in different situations. And here's what hybrid life looks like for us. And here's what goals look like for us. So we all know whether we're on track and we try really hard to listen and to respond with. This isn't just what for example, flexibility looks like. For me, this is what flexibility looks like for each of you on the team.

David Novak 29:20 

So you individualize the flexibility and you let people figure out how they can deliver as long as they deliver.

Lindsay Tjepkema 29:28 

Yeah, exactly. Yep. And we tried to build relationships to and just that makes it a whole lot easier to listen and to be in on things and to be able to provide psychological safety when you have those relationships and you have the ability to respond to people well on that human level.

David Novak 29:44 

I've heard you talk about the importance of asking for help as a leader. Explain.

Lindsay Tjepkema 29:51 

That does not come naturally to me. I have long been the type of person that's like man, you want it done. You got to put it on your back and go get it done and put you head down and go do it yourself. But, you know, over the last couple of years before starting cast, and then especially in the founder seat, it's become really clear to me like, you can't do it yourself, you shouldn't do it yourself. And truly do people want to help. And so the more you are open to asking for help, the better you get at asking for help and being clear on the help that you need. And better about understanding who to ask for for help and where to go. Sometimes help is in the form of Google. And sometimes help is in the form of a relationship or a mentor. But yeah, I think the wisest people, and the most successful people are not ashamed to ask for help. And I actually have a very strong network of people and resources around them that they can go to, I think that's really a sign of a strong leader, is knowing that you don't have all the answers.

David Novak 30:51 

Couldn't agree more. And also, some of our best learnings come from failure. Tell me about a time when you've been challenged. Let's just say with balance, for example, and what you learn from it.

Lindsay Tjepkema 31:03 

I do tend to overdo it. And one example that really comes through to me is raising our Series A was the height of the pandemic. And kids were doing elearning I have three boys and they were all doing eLearning at home, my husband had just had knee surgery, so he couldn't walk. We're all home. You know, it was really easy to just overdo it. But it didn't feel like overdoing it because we were all home, right? You're not out traveling. I wasn't on a plane, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't exhausted. I was just doing a lot. And so I think it was really important to me again, I had people in my life, thank goodness who saw it and recognized it and reached out and said, Okay, I'm gonna help this is how I'm gonna help other people. This is how I'm gonna help in a professional way. This is how like, founder to founder, this is something that you need to do. These are things that you need to recognize and, you know, got through it and learn from it to do better next time.

David Novak 31:54 

Yeah, we all have to do that. It's so true.

Lindsay Tjepkema 31:57 

Yeah, I think success is a horrible teacher, I think is a quote that I've tried to live by failure is a tuition that we pay to be better.

David Novak 32:05 

That's a good one, too. Now, I've heard that you happen to be a very competitive person. What's your view on competition? And who do you see as your competitors

Lindsay Tjepkema 32:14 

it's really funny because I'm not athletic. I'm exercise a lot in separate athletic and like doing the sports ball is not something that's ever really been in my life. And so I never thought I was competitive until my husband pointed out to me that I'm probably the most competitive person he knew. And then I realized, like, my eyes were open. And yes, I'm very, very, very competitive. I think it's very important. I think that being competitive is healthy, especially if it's recognized and properly channeled, especially as a founder for us channeled in being competitive forecasted. And on behalf of casted I mean, we right now we have first mover advantage, we're building a category where at the very least, you know, starting a conversation, and my goal is really to lead a movement. And we're starting to see some of that activity happen. And some other voices show up in that movement, which is awesome. And so my competition, they're super important, super healthy. Now, when it gets to be against yourself and against unrealistic expectations, impossible expectations for yourself or for others, that's when you gotta check it. And you have to have self awareness to to know when it's getting out of control.

David Novak 33:19 

Do you have it in control now?

Lindsay Tjepkema 33:21 

Yeah, my husband, my co workers, they would all tell you that it is properly checked.

David Novak 33:27 

Good. You know, now your business is a few years old, as we talked about, and you're still in the startup phase. What keeps you up at night? I always hated when I got that question. But you know, I'll ask it.

Lindsay Tjepkema 33:38 

Probably two things that are sisters, right. One is growth. I mean, that that will always be there, you know, the name of the game is growth. We've got to keep growing and customers and revenue and, and raving fans and happiness and enjoy and using the product. Like we've got to keep that going. And then you know, on the more human more important level, is our teams happy? Are they feeling fulfilled? Is there healthy competition and check our customers happy is already seeing that feeling seen and heard? Is this where people want to be? Is this the platform that people want to be using? Are we doing what we say? Is the platform heading down the path to lead the movement that we needed to? Do we stand for what we say we do? Are we empowering b2b marketers to be that change that I know we can see? That's the more existential thing in my head.

David Novak 34:23 

You know, this has been a lot of fun. Lindsey talking to you. And now I want to have a little more with some rapid fire question is my lightning round. Are you ready for this?

Lindsay Tjepkema 34:33 

I'm so ready.

David Novak 34:34 

All right, the three words that people would use to describe you

Lindsay Tjepkema 34:37 

intense, chatty, and now you got me thinking competitive.

David Novak 34:44 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be and why?

Lindsay Tjepkema 34:49 

Oh, Brene Brown, because if I can't like hang out with her, but I could be her for a day then I guess that kind of counts as being with her. So Brene Brown,

David Novak 34:57 

I love her. Why?

Lindsay Tjepkema 34:59 

Oh gosh. I've read all of her books at least twice. She has inspired me so much as a human and as a leader, just the work that she's done in the research that she's done matters on such a human level about how we deal with ourselves, how we deal with our emotions, how we treat each other, how we approach this life, how we approach leadership, it has impacted me foundationally What's your biggest pet peeve? When people don't do what they say they're gonna do? I was going back and forth between personal and professional and you know what, whether it's my kids, or in a business setting, when somebody says they're gonna do something, and they don't that really bothers me.

David Novak 35:35 

What's your go to podcast when you need inspiration?

Lindsay Tjepkema 35:40 

Oh, I was gonna say Bearnaise. But I like startup. It's probably for obvious reasons. The first season of startup was when Alex Bloomberg was starting what is now gimlet. So it was a podcast about starting a podcast startup when I was starting a podcast startup,

David Novak 35:58 

who is your favorite guests that you've interviewed on your podcast?

Lindsay Tjepkema 36:01 

Stephen shed Lecky, he works alongside Simon Sinek. And a lot of the work that he's doing, and he's actually writing his own book, and he is just so great to talk to. And we had such a great conversation about culture and leadership. He's wonderful.

David Novak 36:14 

If I were to get in your car right now, what would be coming out of the speakers?

Lindsay Tjepkema 36:20 

That's easy, Dave Matthews Band?

David Novak 36:23 

And what's something about you that few people would know?

Lindsay Tjepkema 36:26 

I don't know. I feel like I'm such an open book. Because all I do is talk to everybody. My favorite thing to do is to snuggle up on the couch with my boys and watch Marvel movies and eat chicken nuggets.

David Novak 36:40 

Go expected. All right, a few more questions for you, Lindsey. And we're gonna wrap this up, when you look three to five years ahead. What's something that's really got you excited?

Lindsay Tjepkema 36:49 

I believe that amplified marketing and this conversation we started, when we were talking three to five years from now will have gained traction, and that we're going to start to see a shift in the way that b2b marketers approach content marketing, and I am so here for it.

David Novak 37:05 

What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to improve as a leader?

Lindsay Tjepkema 37:10 

Listen, and that's to people around you, too, for sure to your team and your co workers, and your mentors and your investors and your board, but also listen to that to be facetious, but things like podcasts and books, never ever, ever stop learning. That's when you start backsliding.

David Novak 37:28 

If you could go back 10 years, Lindsey, and give yourself a nugget of wisdom. What would you say?

Lindsay Tjepkema 37:33 

Get out of your own way. Just stop thinking so much. And just go do the things.

David Novak 37:39 

Well, I'm very happy that I got your way today. And we're able to have this conversation. And I want to thank you, Lindsay and, and wish you all the best as you build this category, and you build your company casted. So thank you very much for being on the show.

Lindsay Tjepkema 37:54 

Thank you so much, David, this was really fun. I appreciate it.

David Novak 38:07 

Well, I gotta tell you, Lindsey is no doubt a whip smart executive and a tremendous marketer. And I love how she's leading the charge to show how podcasts boost the bottom line. For her. It's all about connecting on a human level. That's what makes podcasting so special. And it's also what makes her such a special leader. We're wired for connection. And when you bring it into your leadership style and your business, you're gonna see more trust and engagement everywhere you look. So let me pause here and ask you, what's an area in your business where you need to focus on connection, come up with a few ideas this week. Maybe there's an opportunity in your marketing strategy, like Lindsey talked about, or maybe it's in your approach to customer service or product development. Or hey, maybe it's how you lead your team. You know, leaders have got to take the time to connect with the people they lead. You got to get beneath the surface and learn about their strengths and weaknesses, their wants and needs. Focus on that connection, and you'll be amazed at how your team grows. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders focus on connection. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Eric wood, former captain and all pro NFL center for the Buffalo Bills and the author of a great new book called tackle what's next? When I

Eric Wood 39:32 

was playing in the NFL, I tried to always create habits that would set me up for success. Just little things and being intentional with your actions create winning habits.

David Novak 39:42 

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode. that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be