David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, it's Thanksgiving time, it's time to eat a lot. And since we're gathering together this week for quality time, and quality food is the perfect chance for us to learn some leadership lessons from my favorite chef, Edward Lee. When people come to visit us here in Louisville, and they ask where they should go eat. I always recommend Edward Lee's restaurant, 610 Magnolia, his food is incredible. And I gotta say, his carrot cake is absolutely out of this world. On top of being a successful restaurant tour, he's also competed on Top Chef written to really fun and wonderful books, and has even been nominated for an Emmy, this guy has built a thriving career in an industry that can be pretty much cutthroat. And he's done it by showing people how much they matter. When he prepares the dish. When he's talking to his staff. He treats every single person as an individual people matter. And when you can show your people that they matter to you. Well, that's the hallmark of a great leader. Keep listening to see how it's done. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Edward Lee.

You know, Edward, I always like to go back to the beginning. You know, tell us about your upbringing.

Edward Lee 1:47 

So my parents came over to America in 1971, from South Korea, you know, they did something interesting at back then all the Koreans were moving to a neighborhood in Queens called flushing, it was sort of the Korean neighborhood. And they decided that they weren't going to do that. We were going to move to Canarsie, Brooklyn, which was back then the pits. But they really wanted me to be American like it was it was their dream, they really wanted me to sort of see the world and be with different cultural groups and sort of embrace being in America. So we moved to a really strange neighborhood. And it was all full of all kinds of immigrants, like Jewish people in Polish, and Italians, and Jamaicans and Indians. And it was a rough neighborhood. But it was also a really interesting upbringing. And, you know, looking back on it now, a lot of my sort of culinary roots came from this, this weird sort of immigrant enclave living in this working class immigrant neighborhood was exposed to so many different people at a young age.

David Novak 2:46 

When was your first restaurant job? And what did you learn from it?

Edward Lee 2:49 

So this is an interesting story. And I actually don't know if I've ever told this in public. My first restaurant job was at Trump Tower in New York City. I was 15. And I wanted nothing more than to work at a fancy restaurant. And back then in New York City. I mean, you know, there were restaurants and there, there was Trump Tower. And so I go to this place, there was a little restaurant called terrace five and was on the fifth floor. So I go to this place, and I apply for a job. And the manager loved me. But then he looked at my application and said, Oh, you're only 15 I can't hire you. And I said, Okay. So I go home. And that Friday, I get a call at like, 4pm. And it's the manager and you know, back then we'd have cell phones. So it was like in my house, or my apartment, and he said, listen, the busboy that we hired didn't show up, if you can be here in a half an hour, I will, you know, scratch out your age and you got the job. So I ran over there, literally, and I got the job. And it was my first job was being a busboy, at a little restaurant in Trump Tower, and I did it for about four months. Did you learn

David Novak 4:01 

then that you liked the restaurant business? You obviously weren't doing the food at that point

Edward Lee 4:06 

for a 15 year old kid to be working in a restaurant and it was a fancy restaurant, and there were high end clients and you know, the waiters were all buttoned up and I absolutely loved every minute of it. I was just surrounded by people much older than me, much cooler than me. And on the second day of my job, Michelle Pfeiffer came in for lunch. She ordered a cappuccino, and the manager ordered me to go make a cappuccino which I'd never done before. So I think I actually burned my thumb spilling the hot milk, I made a cappuccino. I delivered it to the table. And she looked up at me and smiled and said thank you. And I remember turning around and going. This is the coolest job in the world.

David Novak 4:54 

That's a good story. You have another story from your childhood that shaped you as a person and eventually as a chef,

Edward Lee 5:01 

so, um, you know, we were very humble, you know, I came from humble upbringings. And both my parents worked, they both worked full time jobs, mostly in the garment business. And so I didn't see my parents very much. I mean, they pretty much left before dawn, and they came home, you know, about 10pm every night. So I spent a lot of time with my grandmother, she was a widow. And she basically spent most of her days cooking. And, you know, it's just doing sort of domestic work. And I was always fascinated by the things she did in the kitchen, you know, I didn't know that she would make tea from scratch, she would make miso from scratch, she would make all these sauces, she would like ferment kimchi and marinate crabs, and do all these things with, you know, a very small budget, going to the local, like, you know, ethnic market and just make all these things. And I remember being fascinated, and I remember trying to spend time with her in the kitchen, you know, when you come from a traditional Korean household, you know, cooking is considered women's work. And I was the only son so I was supposed to do other things. And I remember her, she would always kick me out of the kitchen, and tell me to go outside and play sports or do whatever. But she was like you don't belong in the kitchen, I remember is the first time that I had to fight my way in the kitchen. And I told her, I don't remember how old I was. And I told my grandmother, I said, I live here too. And you can't, like kick me out of the kitchen. And so she finally relented. And she would let me just hang out with her and do things and give me little jobs to do. But she would never explain it to me, she just would silently like cook. And she would let me hang out and watch her. But she would never explain what she was doing. So I kind of had to figure out on my own what it was, and I wasn't cooking back then. But I truly, truly believe like that was the beginning of my fascination with the kitchen.

David Novak 7:01 

You obviously at that young age, you had a real strong courage of conviction and independence, how do you think that's really served you and your career,

Edward Lee 7:09 

a follow up story to that is when I finally turned 18. And I told my parents, most notably my dad that I was going to be a chef, let's see, they were not happy about it to the point where like, my father didn't talk to me for many years, because he was just so upset. In his words, you know, he didn't bring me to this country to be a servant. And so to me that conviction to be able to sort of fight my way in the kitchen to be able to sort of convince my parents against, you know, very, very daunting expectations, to say, you know, what, I truly, truly belong here. And I want to be here, and I'm going to make a success out of myself. It's always been in the bottom of my heart, the thing that drives me the most, because when hardships happen, when times get tough when it's very stressful. I always kind of think back on those early days, when I had to convince my own parents that I was going to do this, nothing is harder than that. Nothing is harder than looking into the eyes of your parents seeing disappointment. And saying, Don't worry, I'm going to prove you wrong. And so when I think when you have that in your gut, you can sort of accomplish anything. You know,

David Novak 8:20 

what advice do you give people on on how to how to really know what's in their heart, let alone follow it.

Edward Lee 8:26 

To me, it's about true passion. When I spend even today, if I spend 1214 hours in a kitchen, it doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like hardship. in my younger days. Anyway, when I was cooking all the time. You know, I miss lots of friends outings, I missed anniversaries, I miss birthday parties, I missed, you know, New Year's Eve celebrations. And I never felt like I was missing out on anything. And I think when you find something that truly moves you and truly makes the time pass without any kind of regrets.

David Novak 9:06 

That's it. You're loved. Like Warren Buffett dissented. He says he tapped dancers to work, tap dance

Edward Lee 9:11 

to work. But I still wake up every morning and I can't wait to get to work.

David Novak 9:16 

Now. Did you go on to college, or I did.

Edward Lee 9:18 

I knew very early on that I wanted to do this. But I went to college really to make my parents happy. Because that was the deal we made. You know, they said, you're a first generation immigrant. You're gonna graduate from an American college. So I went to NYU, which was interesting, because I said, Listen, I knew that I didn't need a college degree to do what I wanted to do because I wanted to cook so I decided that if I'm going to be here anyway, I'm just actually major in what I like to do, and I love to read. So I just became a lit major, which they weren't happy with again. But I said you know, I'm doing this for you guys. I'm going to be a lit major. I'm going to read some great books and soon I graduate college, I'm gonna get a job in a restaurant. But interestingly enough, I actually really appreciate I had a great education. I really enjoyed my college days. And I think being a lit major for four years has served me well in many other ways.

David Novak 10:15 

Now, you now own some very acclaimed restaurants. When did you first how old were you when you first found your first restaurant?

Edward Lee 10:22 

So I was in New York City. And I was not planning to open a restaurant. I you know, I graduated college, I was working at a few kitchens, some really nice kitchens in New York City. And I never went to culinary school. So I had this harebrained idea, which was completely the opposite of what normal people do. I said, What if I opened up a little joint, not a restaurant, but like a little, sort of barbecue joint, and I would make money. And then I would use that money to enroll in culinary school, which is not what you do. You go to culinary school first, and you open a restaurant. So I was walking through Chinatown in Manhattan. And I just came upon this sign and it said for rent call owner. And it wasn't it wasn't a real estate sign. It was just like a little handwritten sign that said for rent Colona. And I don't know why. But I just, you know, I call them and turned out the lease was great. It was an old Chinese restaurant that had gone out of business. And he The rent was so cheap. And I don't know why. But I said, sure I'll do. I had no money. And I took out credit card debt. And I got a little bit of a SBA loan, and I borrowed money from friends and neighbors. And anyone I could ask him, a good friend of mine was a carpenter. And he helped me build it on. I was 25, I opened my first restaurant for less than $180,000 in downtown New York City, which is unheard of people, I tell that story, and people don't believe me. And it became really, really successful. And we got a review on the front page of The New York Times within six months,

David Novak 12:02 

what was your concept, you said you wanted to have a joint but what kind it was, it was

Edward Lee 12:05 

kind of like a weird fusion Korean barbecue joint. But that served like good drinks, in a little bit of American food, a little bit of Korean food, all small bites. And I really did not know what I was doing at all. But I'm thankful I did that. I cut my teeth in the business doing that. And I realized that maybe I didn't know everything about food. But I sure well learned how to do plumbing. I learned how to, you know, lead a team of 30 people, I learned how to fix light bulbs and fix bathrooms and paint walls and anything that the I had no money, so anything that needed to be done. I just did it. And you learn the business from the ground, I learned everything from going to the flower market on Sundays at 4pm. Because that was when they were throwing away all their flowers, and you can get them for next to nothing to go into Chinatown and haggling on the fish, things that they don't teach in cooking school. And so you know, five years into that when I actually did make the money, I realized I didn't need to go to cooking school, because I had sort of put my own self through cooking school with this little restaurant. So I look back at those days pretty fondly.

David Novak 13:18 

So now you're in the restaurant business for real. And you know, what do you find is the most challenging aspect of leaving your restaurant business,

Edward Lee 13:25 

you're only as good as the people that you hire. And there's no way that I can excel. And there's no way that I can progress and expand without having all the people on my team believe in what we do. And it's hard. My head chefs, my managers, they all believe in it. You know, sometimes the young student that's a waitress just wants a job. You know, this is not her career. She just wants to come in and make some money, and fun, whatever else is doing in life. And that's fine, too. We rely on those people. They don't always believe in the dream the way I do. They don't always understand the struggles that I've gone through and the passion that I have. And to be able to convince every single person from the head chef down to the dishwasher, that we have a dream we have a purpose. We're here for a reason. And if we all work together, things go well, if we don't things fall apart. How do you cast that vision Edward? I try and lead by example. I go in there, I'm every single day I go to work. I try to show people that I'm never above doing their jobs. And I try to explain people like I've done every job in the restaurant business. I've washed dishes, I have done plumbing, I have painted walls and I go in there and if I see a problem, I go in there and I tackle it. I am not above washing dishes even today. If a customer and I was at my restaurant last night and a customer needed water, and the waitresses were busy I went and I grabbed a pitcher of water and I filled their water it. And I hope that when they see that they realize that this thing for me is not just a business, it's not just to make money. I truly believe in taking care of people taking care of my customers, I want every single person to feel like they're coming into my home. And they are. And I think when people see that about me when they truly believe that I care, I care about my restaurant, family is a true family. For me, I have my other family, but they are also true family. And it is gets more and more difficult as we expand. And as we would each restaurant we add on. And then we add another 780 people to staff,

David Novak 15:40 

what are the soft skills you have to develop to be a really good leader in your mind,

Edward Lee 15:45 

I think it's being able to, and as impossible as it is, is to look at every single person individually. You know, we have policies, we have lists of things that we have to do, but it's to look at every single person, as a human being and as an individual, and not just a worker. And I think once people feel like they're just a number, or just a worker, or just a product, they lose the passion. I try and get into people's lives, I try and sort of learn something about them. Personally, I try and ask them something about their kid about what they did on Sunday when on their day off. And I try and really help them you know, in a way, and I try and sort of understand that we spend a lot of time together in the restaurants. These people work six days a week, and they give a lot to my group. And so while we are here in the restaurant, I try and make life easy for them and fun.

David Novak 16:42 

You know, Edward, I've studied a lot of great companies, a lot of great leaders, but every successful business creates a culture or work environment where everybody on the team knows that they count. That sounds like what you really believe in. Yeah, you know, you're Korean you mentioned so I'm sure the stereotypical expectation is for you to specialize in Asian food. What direction Have you taken and why No, you started out with sort of a Korean fusing type business. What's your view on that now.

Edward Lee 17:08 

So I moved to Louisville, Kentucky, I came from New York City, it was kind of a sad story, the restaurant that I had in New York was doing well. And after 911, things went haywire. And I just needed to change I needed to get out a friend of mine recommended that I come to Kentucky for Derby, I came here. And I just fell in love with this place. And obviously the bourbon and the pretty ladies and hats didn't hurt. So I just felt like there was something here that I'd never seen before. I was 29 when I arrived here, for being a chef's for so long. I've never really spent time on farms. You know, I never really understood agriculture. You know, I was a chef and I pick up my phone and order my meats. And when I came down here, I was so sort of enthralled by the people the culture. And little by little I started getting into southern food, which is not something that I was born with, I didn't grow up with it. And everything from fried chicken to collard greens to chess pies and all this stuff. And I just couldn't stop eating this stuff. And I was like, This is amazing. Where where's this been all my life. I think as an inquisitive chef, little by little, if you start eating things that you love, it's natural to start to want to cook them. And so I would start going back into my kitchen and going well, I'm gonna make barbecue sauce, I'm gonna make biscuits and gravy. You know, obviously, I was never going to be a traditional Southern chef. But little by little I started saying, Well, this stuff is really good. And maybe I can mix a little like Korean spice with it. And maybe I can mix this. And you know, I'm a Korean born chef, but trained in a very sort of classical French way, because a lot of the restaurants I worked in as a kid, or French restaurants. And then I started taking these these southern traditions, and started kind of infusing them with it. And I feel like that was the final missing piece of the puzzle that completed me as a chef. And I've been doing it ever since

David Novak 19:08 

you know, ever now I have my autograph copy of buttermilk graffiti, which is very good. Thank you What made you write this book,

Edward Lee 19:16 

you know, as a creative person, as someone who looks at the world sort of with a creative lens. I'm always looking for different outlets to tell stories. And I truly believe that a good restaurant tells a really good story, you know, with food. And I truly believe like, that's what I try and do every day at my restaurants is not only serve delicious food, but also like, tell a story and make people see things in a new way. And so whether it's TV or restaurants or books, I try and do that. So we had great success with my first cookbook, smokin pickles. So when it came down to do another one, everyone thought that I was just going to do another cookbook. And I talked to my publisher and I said you don't have an idea to start have travelled across America, look at all these different cultures and write about them in a creative way. And, you know, hopefully is slightly interesting, maybe poetic, maybe, you know, sort of personal, where it really was a personal journey for me. And they were like, well, let's see a sample, and let's see, see what you can do. You know, again, I think if you if you truly have a passion for something, you're going to give it your all. And I really did. This was a two year process. And I went to places that I never thought I would go, and I met people that I never thought I would meet. And I just wrote about them in a way that was very honest, and hopefully, informative, but fun, you know? Well, the book

David Novak 20:39 

is certainly fun. And I learned a lot. And you did go to all kinds of different places, and you really believe in the power of storytelling. Why is that? What do you think is so powerful in a story?

Edward Lee 20:50 

I think that what makes humans different from animals, let's say is that we dream, you know, even I have a young daughter. And that's all we do is we tell stories, like we look at the moon, and we want to go there, you know, we see an ocean and we want to cross it. Like, we need stories, we need narratives, we need adventures. That's what makes us human. And, you know, I can get lost in a book. And you know, 10 hours goes by, and I've just traveled to exotic places, all because of a book and word that I'm reading. And I think that, that gets the juices flowing in our head. And that's what makes us feel alive.

David Novak 21:32 

What story do you love to tell the most? Or do you enjoy most in the book that you wrote?

Edward Lee 21:36 

You know, I really, it was actually the first chapter that I wrote. It's not the first chapter in the book. But it was the first chapter that I wrote. And it's about this little mill town called Lowell, Massachusetts. And there's a very vibrant Cambodian community that lives there. And I went to little thinking that I was going to write about the Cambodian chef's there. And I did, and it was spent a few days eating this great Cambodian food and going into markets and talking to people. And this was originally not supposed to be in the book. But I was driving around law, and I came upon this incredible ly old boxing gym, called Ramallah West End gym. And I'm a huge sports fan. So I go in there, and I go, Oh, this is where they filmed that movie was this old movie called The fighter. And it's a great movie. I think it won an Oscar. And I Oh, yeah, this is where they filmed the movie. And I was talking to the guys and just start chit chatting. And one of them said, Hey, man, if you really want a story, you gotta go see this guy, Irish check, Brady, he owns a bar down the road, an Irish bar. So I went there, ended up meeting him at night, and just thought I was gonna have a five minute conversation. I just wanted to ask him about low. We ended up staying up till two in the morning, he told me story after story after story about Irish history, and low about boxing about what it took to grow up here and fight your way through the rough times. And I realized that at that moment, at two in the morning, after drinking Irish whiskey with this gentleman, that that was going to be the book that was the story that I wanted to tell it wasn't just the Cambodian chef, but it was the Cambodian chef, next to this Irish boxer, and how those two lives are really linked together. And they may not even realize it. But that's their story. And it's kind of a story of America, where you go around, and there's sort of one group that's sort of fading away, or becoming more middle class or, you know, becoming more American or gentrifying. And there's another group coming in the next generation of immigrants fighting that same battle, clawing their way through life. And to me, that's America. And so I just wanted to go and tell that story.

David Novak 23:42 

So you're a real student of the intersection of food and culture.

Edward Lee 23:46 

You know, to me, food is not just what's on the plate, I look at food and I taste food, but then I really try and see the person behind it, the culture that made it you know, the reasons why certain spices go together, and certain sauces make it onto our plate.

David Novak 24:06 

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You know, you're writing your book, I thought this was great that if you really want to know someone, you have to eat what he or she is eating. Explain that.

Edward Lee 24:49 

So there's a lot of things that we culturally can change in ourselves, right, you know, like I can put on a suit and tie and you know, I can say I'm not Korean, I'm going to do this, or I'm going to ride horses or I'm going to play basketball. But there's something in our culinary DNA that always calls back to who we are. Because usually the foods that we love the most reveals something about our childhood, and how we grew up, because you start getting the static about the things that you ate when you were a kid. And so you crave those things, and you want to sort of eat them again and again. So when you really look at someone and see what they're, you know, it's a little experiment, I go and talk to people and say, you know, what's your favorite fruit? Mac and cheese? Why? You know, my grandma used to make that for me when I was a kid. Like, there you go. Right? There's an astrologer to food that is so strong in us. And it really reveals a lot about who we are, how we grew up, where we grew up. It's fascinating to me,

David Novak 25:50 

when I read that, I thought about that, and I thought of my dad's pancakes. And my dad's pancakes, you know, I mean, he makes the flattest tennis pancakes, and he gets them just really just tough almost, and they're just sensational. But it's really the love and the, you know, his love in our family love that. I think that that really brings out so I think that's very powerful. Edward, have you ever had an incident or an experience that made you appreciate what it might be like to be without food just to be hungry?

Edward Lee 26:16 

Yeah, my wife went through a bout of cancer. And, you know, we had a young child, and she was recovering from surgery. And you know, my wife has a great appetite like I do, and we love food. And we love Dining Out and we love just cooking together. And she you know, for about four weeks, she couldn't eat anything. You know, she literally couldn't hold out food. And so I was making these purees for her. And I was trying to do everything from like smelling like mints, like making fragrant sort of concoctions for to smell. And I truly looked at that. And I saw the experience that she was going through. And it was sort of an outer body experience. And I kind of put myself in her shoes. And that thing that she loves so much, and that I love so much like that she lost it, you know, and it was the medication and the recovery. And it was something that obviously she's great now and made a full recovery. But you know, beyond everything else, it was something when I was when I was just you know, I was there with her every day. And we sat there and nursed her and that not being able to eat was something that was really It hit me hard.

David Novak 27:30 

And well, Diane's an amazing person and a real fighter and competitor. And for sure. I know you competed quite successfully on Top Chef, did that really bring out your competitive instincts?

Edward Lee 27:41 

Yes, and no, I think as chefs, any great chef is going to be a great competitor. Because it's such a tough business that you're not going to succeed if you're not, you know cutthroat and competitive and you really have to want it. So in that case, I think every person on that program or every chef is competitive to the bone, you have to be having said that that show puts you in a situation that you're just not used to. It's very, very stressful. It's tense, it's awkward. And you know, it's created for a reason, right? I don't go into my kitchen and tell my staff Hey, guys, we have one hour to make a menu, let's go. So they create these artificial situations that sort of bring out the best and sometimes the worst in people. In that sense. Yeah, you're thrown into a situation that's completely unknown. And you have no idea what to expect. And then you just have to sort of survive on instincts. Mostly, it was an interesting experiment. It is not something that I do on a daily basis. So the competitive nature, I've had it before, and I continue to have it today mentioned

David Novak 28:50 

something that was interesting. You said that every chef you have to be cutthroat. Cutthroat is not something that I would link up the is that really the right word? Do you mean? Or is it if so why?

Edward Lee 29:00 

You know, I, most people who know me, like when they meet me the first time they always have the same reaction. They say, You're a nice guy, you really laid back and I'm like, Yeah, you know I am. And you know, they get a job. And the first night that they see me in the kitchen, they are taken aback, because there is a switch in me. The apron goes on, and the clock hits six o'clock and the doors are open. I'm a very different person. And it's something that not everyone gets to see. I am not afraid to say that. I want to be the best. I want my restaurant to be the best. And I want people to come to my restaurant over your restaurant, and I'll do just about anything to make that happen. And if that's cutthroat that's cutthroat but, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, it's friendly competition, but also it's like it's serious business. Like we want to be the best. There's nothing else and so, in that sense, yeah, it's very cutthroat and It's so competitive, there's so many restaurants that as a customer, you can go anywhere. And to sort of convince someone to come to your restaurant over that next one, you can't just sort of wait and hope that they come, you have to do things to make sure that they do.

David Novak 30:15 

Well, you are obviously very good at television, and you actually earned an Emmy nomination as the host chef of the third season of the mind of the chef. What's in the mind of the chef? A lot.

Edward Lee 30:29 

It's a lot. That was a really fun documentary to do. Because it really pushed me to tell stories. And I think it actually helped me to write this book, because I had to explain myself on camera. I think as chefs, that's just something that we're not asked to do all the time. And so they would film a dish, and they would say, Okay, now tell me why you did that. And then we'll give them a reason. They said, Well, no, that's not enough. Tell me more. Tell me about your parents. Tell me about your experiences. You know, what, what made you make this dish, what made you put the sauce on this dish, and it was really good exercise, in sort of understanding was almost like going to therapy, you know, it was like that I had to really dig deep, and figure out the reasons why I do what I do, to sort of explain it to an audience. And it was a truly amazing experience.

David Novak 31:19 

Edward, you've obviously built a name for yourself. I mean, you're a famous chef, there's no question about that. Have you consciously gone about marketing? Edward Lee? Or is that just come through time and grade?

Edward Lee 31:31 

I didn't at first, you know, obviously, when you're a chef, you're just sort of in the kitchen and kind of trying to survive every day, you know, the after we did some TV, and after the first book did well, you know, we started to look at what it means. And know, one of the first things that I saw was, you know, a friend of mine has a soy sauce company here in town. And now it's an amazing company. But in the early days, we were just starting out, and I was kind of, you know, I had Justin tv and done a book, and he was starting out. And I just remember, like, you know, putting it on Facebook or, you know, serving in my restaurants and talk to people and and I just he called me and say, Man, our sales just went up. And it was because I had put something on Facebook. And I think that was the first moment when I realized that the message had power and that I, that people were listening to me. And so we started to really consciously Look at that. And my wife, Diane, who's worked at IBM for many, many years, and really understood how branding works in marketing works and understood how messaging works. She was really integral in helping me and saying, you know, I mean, even little things like you can't go out looking like that, because you're a public figure now. Comb your hair, you know, to like, building my website and figuring out what that message is, and sort of making it digestible, if you will, to the public. And so that's been a huge thing that we're still working on. But she's really integral man.

David Novak 33:13 

Yeah. So you're very aware of, of your brand and building it now. And you know, you have a love for immigrants. And I know people come to the United States for opportunity, but what do you lose? When you become an American, you lose

Edward Lee 33:27 

something and you gain something, you know, we lose our anchor to, you know, whatever our homeland is, right? We lose traditions, we lose language, we know we lose rituals, sometimes we lose religion. But I think what we gain is this communal harmony, this amazing experience that we call being an American. I always say just from a food standpoint, my wife and I travel, we go to Italy, we go to Korea, you know, we go to Mexico, and everybody go I love it. It's fun. But by the third or fourth day in Italy, I go, man, can I get anything with pasta? Can I get some Chinese food or, you know, fried chicken? And I'm like, No, we don't have that we eat pasta every day. Or if you're in Korea, you eat noodles and rice every day. And one of the things that as Americans we don't appreciate enough is that I can have soul food in the morning, and Chinese food for lunch and give you know, Indian food for dinner. Like we have such diversity. And we have such choice here. And that's not so in most of the world. And that bleeds into all aspects of culture too. But just from a food standpoint, we are spoiled here, man, we can get the best of anything we want, anywhere. And that's something that's truly different and special in that and I love that.

David Novak 34:50 

You talk about diversity and talk a little bit about the program you've launched to train young women on culinary skills and all aspects of the restaurant industry.

Edward Lee 34:59 

I feel true really blessed and truly lucky to have my life and to have the successes that I have. And so there comes a time where you, you know, want to give back. And so we started a nonprofit, not knowing what we were going to do with it. But but our mission statement was that we were going to basically look at a combat inequality in the restaurant community. And wherever we could, we were trying to do something about it, but do small and impactful programs, right. So instead of just giving money to charity, we wanted to really change the lives of a small number of people, but change them significantly. So when the me to movement came about, my Director of the Foundation is a woman in her name's Lindsay, and she has been in the industry for a very long time. And she's brilliant, and she knows everything about it. And she said, We should do something about this. And I said, Sure, what do we do? And we sat there, and we tossed, you know, hundreds of ideas out. And what came to us finding, we interviewed tons of female chefs around the country, really successful ones. And we asked them, What does it take to be an incredible, successful female chef? And the answer that we came up with was that it requires mentorship, it requires confidence education, it requires, you know, just basically giving a young chef the confidence to tell her that she can do it. And so we look at this very, you know, for what it is, it's a male dominated world in the kitchens of most restaurants. And we said, why can we change that? Can we help a young female chef go from being just a line cook, or a salad prep person, to a head chef, how do we sort of nurture someone through that process, and so that we have more equality, and we have more women in this industry, I think every industry benefits from having diversity and, you know, men and women in positions of leadership. So it took us a long time. And we did countless hours of figuring out exactly what this program is going to be. And so we came upon, we're going to pick five young female chefs in the state of Kentucky through an application process. And then they get hooked up with five very successful female chefs around the country. And we send them off mentorship, training, and then at the end of it, we're all gonna go to New York to the beard house and do a dinner together.

David Novak 37:15 

That's fantastic. is great, you know, so every year an entrepreneur, a chef, writer, now teacher, I have to add that to your list television host, you know, how do you juggle so many balls and balance that what I also know is very important to you, is your family.

Edward Lee 37:30 

That's the hardest part in the way I juggle it all is a I don't sleep much. And I'm pretty much obsessed by everything that I do. I have great team players who sort of helped me to juggle everything, who keep every aspect of it, going every day. And the other part of that is my family, right? My family keeps me grounded. And they make sure that even little things like so my head doesn't get too big. And my ego doesn't get too big. But also, it's about the simple things, you know, why am I doing all this, it's not for fame and fortune. It's because I get to come home to my wife and my lovely daughter, and I get to spend time with them and not worry and not have to work countless hours like my parents did. So that I could spend time with my family and we go out and you know, do things, we go to the zoo and we go to the park and, you know, we go ride horses. Like to me, that's true happiness. And so all of this is really to make sure that the core of my life, which is my family, is taken care of. And so that balancing act, though it's challenging, from a time standpoint, from an emotional standpoint is very easy. I do all this so that my family's that we're happy. And they balance it all out. What three

David Novak 38:47 

bits of advice would you give aspiring leaders,

Edward Lee 38:50 

I would say every day, I want to learn something new. And every day I want to teach something to someone, and doesn't actually happen every single day. But I truly believe like, that's how you keep growing. And people also want to be around you, you know, if you're only holding information and not giving it out. And there's no incentive for people to sort of stick with you. And I'm very transparent and selfless when it comes to things that I learned. And I truly believe that sharing is what like if I go somewhere exotic. When I come back to Kentucky, I'm always like, trying to buy something a new sauce or some some candy bar and I come back and I try and like give it to my staff and so then I went to the workplace. And but I truly do like if I eat something amazing. I'm always like, how do I transport this dish back to my kitchen and have everyone taste it? It's impossible, but I truly believe and so what I do, whether it's taking pictures or writing notes and telling people about it, and I try and share as much as possible so that the people around me also feel it in they have success as well.

David Novak 40:00 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Chef Edward Lee. And just a moment, you know, Edwards right on the money when he says you're only as good as the people around you. And nobody knows that better than Steve Kerr, the coach of the Golden State Warriors. In our episode of how leaders lead, Steve shares exactly how we can unlock the power of teams.

Speaker 1 40:19 

You know, I inherited this warriors team that was already really good. They had Steph Curry Klay Thompson and two amazing vets, I could see we had the talent, but I wanted to connect with the bench because I had been there. And so my first year, I came up with this idea that our team mantra could be strength in numbers. And it was something that I talked about, from day one, we had so much talent, we had so much depth that we were going to overwhelm teams, and it really became part of our persona,

David Novak 40:48 

to go back and listen my entire conversation with Steve that I had just before he launched into that 2022 Championship Season, Episode 62 here on how leaders lead.

Ever the work you do requires so much creativity, how do you stay inspired and continue to innovate with your team?

Edward Lee 41:15 

Well, a lot of it is being inclusive of my team. And I think as I get older, it's important for me to surround myself with younger generation, people who have fresh ideas, and making sure that they know that all of their ideas come to the table, and we take the ball seriously. So a lot of my inspiration really comes from the people that I surround myself with, they come from all walks of life, backgrounds, both economic, social, ethnic, whatever, which you know, one of the reasons why I feel like diversity is so important because they just bring such different opinions and ideas to the table. And they bring me ideas that I necessarily wouldn't have thought about. So really, it's a lot of collaboration. For me.

David Novak 41:59 

I agree with all that one of the things that kind of bugs me is when you start saying as I get older, I mean, you want to talk about oh, you're looking a lot older than you. Let me ask you, what does winning look like for an elite chef like yourself, what's a metric of success that motivates you to keep pushing,

Edward Lee 42:17 

you know, the restaurant world, the chef world is so fickle, it's so transitory that you could be on top of the world one year, and the next year, you know, you can have an economic recession and your restaurants aren't doing well. And, you know, you're you're considered a has been, and lots can happen. And so for me, I'm very fortunate in the fact that I really do wake up every morning, and I love what I do. And I don't want to do anything else in this world. So I just want to stay relevant. I'm really fortunate to that I get to run restaurants. I'm in the middle of writing another cookbook, right now, I get to do TV, I'm launching a video podcast on YouTube. So I have all these different interests that keep me busy, and just keep the wheels running in my head. I never have a boring day. But I also never have a predictable day. Like every morning I wake up. And I have a certain set of things to do on my to do list. But I have so many different things going on hitting me from all different angles that might they can easily derail. And I'm ending up, you know, doing flower arrangements at my restaurant, which can annoy some people, I guess, because it's not what I was supposed to do today. But I love it because I kind of thrive off the unpredictability, that sort of running go nature of the restaurant business, it always brings me joy, it always brings me some sort of a new spin on something. And I'm always learning, I never know everything about the restaurant business. So to me to be in a position where I don't necessarily have to be at the same job every day, I can sort of pick and choose where my day goes. But at the same time, I'm always playing defense a little bit because I know something's going to come up. And I get to I use those opportunities to learn to learn about every aspect of this business.

David Novak 44:11 

You know, I know that for all of us, we have our ups and downs or wins and losses in both life and business. Would you share a story about a time when things didn't go as planned and what you learn from it?

Edward Lee 44:22 

That's pretty much every day of my life doesn't go. But you know, recently we lost a couple of restaurants during COVID. And you know, we had to shutter both businesses, and really wasn't because the businesses were doing bad. There were other outside forces and COVID and buildings shutting down. They're very sad moments sad for me sad for my staff, sad for all the work that we put into it. And we didn't really get to have a final goodbye or send off. And so those are things that I look at as challenges, but also to me, it allowed me to free up my time. have to pivot and do other things. And all of a sudden, I found myself instead of running six restaurants only running, you know, three restaurants. And I had extra time on my hands and sort of refocused it into my nonprofit, and really focused a lot of that energy. And I found this incredible new passion that I didn't have before that I maybe existed in me, but I didn't recognize it, or didn't know about it, which was helping people, you know, finding ways and solutions to help people that are hurting in the restaurant business. And I can honestly say, you know, the nonprofit work that I committed to doing during COVID is now something that that I will commit to for the rest of my career. But it took sort of losing three restaurants in order for me to have the time to commit myself to this other thing that now is something I wake up every day, and I think about and I tried to do better at it. So you know, it's a lot of times, it's just finding the opportunities that are all around you. And you know, when things don't go your way, just channel your energy into something else.

David Novak 46:10 

I love how you pivot, and you've done such a great job, you know, helping restaurants that are not as fortunate as you and also, you know, bringing women into the workforce, as chefs, and I really congratulate you on all those efforts. What's been one of your best days as a chef, tell us a story you'll never forget,

Edward Lee 46:27 

I had something recently that happened, we did a charity dinner at my restaurant. And we invited two groups of people that were having some friction with each other. We invited some members of the LMPD, Louisville Metro Police Department, and we invited some members of the black community. And we had this dinner. And the whole point of the dinner was to create unity. And for people to get along with each other and to end to see each other as people, not as combatants not as political motivations. But just as people, I cooked a barbecue dinner for them. And we didn't know what was going to come of it. And it was really important that I brought my daughter and my wife with me. And I wanted to show both the audience and my family that what I do for a living food oftentimes is fun, entertaining, It's luxurious. It's a really beautiful escape. But sometimes food and restaurants and chefs can have a bigger meaning and a bigger impact, and can affect society in ways that we don't often think of chefs doing. By the end of the dinner, everyone was hugging each other. Everyone was passing out business cards, we all took pictures. And we all vowed to continue this mission of unity, of getting together of communication, of trying to understand each other it despite our political beliefs. And to me, that was such an important thing. You know, my daughter was sitting right there and seeing and she's nine years old. And I know that we get so much of our information on social media these days, that it was so important to have her sitting in the room, and listening to these people say these really encouraging and wonderful things about each other, and promising to do better on both sides of the aisle. And so that, you know, that's one example of where I sort of get out of the chef mode. And even though I'm still cooking, it makes me feel really encouraged that the things that I could do, they're small, you know, they're small Dinah's, 20 people. But these things can have impacts and they can have ripples that go beyond just that room that we were in.

David Novak 48:36 

Well, you can bring a city together and get closer together. And I think that's great. I've always learned that you know, break there's nothing like breaking bread with people to get you on the same page. And it does bring you together and I I totally agree with that. And with this been so much fun, and I'd like to have a little bit more with you with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this?

Edward Lee 48:55 

I'll try my best.

David Novak 48:57 

All right, what are three words others would use to describe you?

Edward Lee 49:01 

motivated? grumpy, and precise.

David Novak 49:09 

If you could be someone besides yourself for a day, who would it be and why?

Edward Lee 49:13 

I would be an NBA point guard. Something like a James Harden. If I could be anyone for a day. I would love to just you know, bring a ball down a court and listen to 20,000 fans like cheering me on.

David Novak 49:29 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Edward Lee 49:31 

People cutting lines? You know, for some reason, you know, like at the airport when someone tries to cut a line like that just it just gets under my skin.

David Novak 49:41 

You only get to eat one genre of food for the rest of your life. What would it be?

Edward Lee 49:47 

That's easy noodles. Spicy noodles.

David Novak 49:49 

So this might be easy to what's your favorite meal at your favorite restaurant?

Edward Lee 49:54 

Oh boy. No, that's a difficult one. I don't really have a favorite meal because I really just Have everything but if I were pushed for an answer, there's a Peking duck, which is like one of my favorite things and this place in Chinatown called New York Peking duck house. It's fantastic.

David Novak 50:13 

What's the food you really enjoy that doesn't get the credit it deserves

Edward Lee 50:18 

German food. I love like my wife and I whenever we travel and we find like some old mom and pop, German restaurant we'd like to go and try and you know, there's there's nothing better than a fried schnitzel with some sauerkraut.

David Novak 50:33 

I can't stand sauerkraut. If you turned on the radio in your car, what would we hear?

Edward Lee 50:40 

Probably sports radio. That's kind of my setting on the car.

David Novak 50:44 

What was your most recent I can't believe this is happening to me moment.

Edward Lee 50:48 

Somewhat last year. Recently, I was given a Muhammad Ali award in Louisville. And I just found myself on stage with some incredible people around the country that were doing incredible things. And that was really humbling, because I didn't feel like I belonged in such a steamed company.

David Novak 51:06 

Well, you do. Last lightning round question. What's something about you few people would know,

Edward Lee 51:14 

I'm very passionate about singing karaoke. I used to recently broke, but I used to have a karaoke machine. In my own home favorite karaoke song got

David Novak 51:24 

to ask you,

Edward Lee 51:25 

I can do a mean Tom Petty, I do a little bit of YouTube. I can do some Elvis if the mood is right. But sometimes when my wife and daughter are out of the house, I'd like to turn the lights down low, and just, you know, rock out to some some good karaoke by myself.

David Novak 51:42 

You know, if you could go back 20 years and give yourself a motivational speech or some kind of encouragement? What would your message be?

Edward Lee 51:50 

I think that's an easy one, I would tell my younger self, and I tell this to all my young chefs that work under me, it's a marathon, not a race. And when you're young, you're so eager, and you're so impatient, and you're so just ready to explode. And you want it all right now. And you realize that this career, this life is so long, and you have so many paths that you can choose. And there's so many paths that open up to you, you know, as you go along. And you have to keep your mind open to it. You know, I mean, just as simple. I come from Brooklyn, New York and train most of my career in my early career in Manhattan. If someone told 22 year old Ed Lee, hey, you'll be running a restaurant in Louisville, Kentucky, and spending the better part of 20 years, being an ambassador for Kentucky, I would have said you're crazy. But lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. And I'm so fortunate that that opportunity came and I was open to the opportunity. And I took it. I think patience is something in this world that we live in is not the most rewarded, you know, attribute. But I really do think patience is something that we need to focus more on and understand, like, whatever career you have, it's going to be a long one. And if you want to be in it for a long time, patience is such a virtue.

David Novak 53:13 

You know, one of the things about the restaurant industry is that people like yourself can start from nothing and end up at the top. And you've certainly done that. And, Edward I want to thank you for sharing your dreams and your your American dream with us because you're a guy who has really made it happen, and I admire everything you've done. Oh, thank you.

Well, you can see for yourself, Edward is such a passionate and driven guy. He's also incredibly kind and attuned to people. It's a wonderful combination. And I know it's a huge reason why he's been so incredibly successful. He reminds us of just how important it is, no matter how driven we are to make sure we always honor the people around us as people as individuals. This week, think of someone on your team who doesn't always get the credit they deserve. Write them a note and tell them exactly why they matter to you, and what specific strengths they have that you admire. It's a simple gesture, but it's gonna mean the world for that person to know that you appreciate them, not just as a worker, but as an individual. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders show others that they matter? And you know what? Great leaders are thankful for the people they have the privilege of leading than I want you to have a happy Thanksgiving. Coming up next on how leaders lead is David Gibbs, CEO of yum brands,

David Gibbs 54:48 

anything that is presented to you as being bad. I immediately try to figure out okay, how can this actually be good? I just put my mindset in. Okay, what good can come out of this and how do we capitalize on it because it's the only thinking we could control.

David Novak 55:01 

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you've become the best leader you can be