David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, everybody, buckle up, because the day I'm talking with the country's top Mentalist, owes Perlman, he entertains NFL teams and big corporations with astounding tricks that makes it seem like he's actually read the minds. And believe me, he is. And you know what, he even does one of his tricks with me during this episode, and it's honestly going to blow your mind, it certainly blew mine. Most of all, though, in what he does on stage, he makes sure that every performance is about his audience, not about him. He wants to give every person in his audience a memorable moment. And that's why he's one of the most in demand performers around OHS is going to inspire you to create more memorable moments for your customers. Plus, he's going to make you think about who you are, what your brand is, and how you can be an even better communicator and leader. So without further ado, here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours owes Perlman.

Can I ask you before I do this, how many people who call you AWS versus those

Oz Pearlman 1:36 

destroy my life? It couldn't have picked a worse career tied into a worse you know, the Wizard of Oz. It's just It writes itself. I told my parents we need to change my name when I was a teenager, and just go, you know, lean into it just go with us. And they were very adamant. No, because in Hebrew, my name is Oh, it's not a stage name. Like I didn't make up this funny pronunciation. It's because in Hebrew, you say it differently. It's kind of like Dr. Oz style. He changed his name, his name would have been Mehmet O's. But he went with us because he's smarter than me. I talked to him about it, actually.

David Novak 2:10 

Well, I know you do a lot of running and we're going to be talking about this. But you know, we met at a dinner party that was hosted by our mutual friends, Doug and Holly Hirsch. And, and Doug told me something about you. He said that you can actually recite the alphabet. As fast as people do forward, you can do it backwards. Is that true? Absolutely. Let's hear it.

Oz Pearlman 2:32 

ZYXWVTSRQPO and MLK. GHG, FET, CVA?

David Novak 2:37 

We have never had anybody like you on this show. I can tell you that right now. And then night we met two days earlier. You'd run I believe, for 21 straight hours for Montauk Long Island very corner of Long Island all the way into Manhattan. How many miles? Was it? 21 straight hours,

Oz Pearlman 2:57 

just under 130 miles, you got to check the data, but 129 ish,

David Novak 3:01 

129 ish. Now, how in the world? I know it's two days later. But how in the world? Are you even standing at that point?

Oz Pearlman 3:09 

Um, I'm not case, David, that doesn't even like the fact that I was at a dinner party two days later is almost a joke, because I've done some crazier things, and the same day flown and done gigs. So that's just kind of par for the course of me, I would say I don't dip my toes in, I jumped right in the deep end.

David Novak 3:25 

You know, I don't think you're crazy. I was I think you're a whack job. There's no question about that, you know, and, but it was when you're running that long. And for that far, it was there a point where you think you couldn't get it done? Did that ever even enter into your mind.

Oz Pearlman 3:38 

So honestly, you know, it's the kind of that old adage, if you fail to plan plan to fail. So we went in with a plan. And when I say we have a team, they're not running with me, but they're given me water. And if you want to make the store even better, it was the hottest day of the summer. And I say that not figuratively. I mean, literally, Bloomberg put out a thing that goes, don't do anything on Thursday is gonna be the hottest day of the summer. It was brutal. It was in the 90s with the heat index. And long story short, I started running way too fast. In the second half the plan was when you get to my aid station with my buddies, get some water, do a bit of walk in for a minute or two, get your heart rate down. And I didn't do that for about 50 miles. I just kept running. I go boys, we're gonna crush this record, because we were trying to break the record for the fastest crossing of Long Island on foot ever. And so I didn't listen to my own advice. You know, I got ahead of myself. And I paid the price. My friend when I was 10 miles to go, I was a train wreck. You know, I had my arms over to guys walk in. And to answer your question. I thought, yes, in the depths of my soul, I'm going to get this done. I'm going to crawl if I need to David, I'm going to finish. But the suffering was huge. And it was self inflicted, because I should have stuck to the plan that I made at the start, you know, look long term. You know, when you say it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Well, this is five marathons. So but then I saw the New York City Lights and a some deep part of me one My good buddies, David Goggins has this 40% rule, which is when you're all out, you're only 40% deep into what you got in your reserves. So I dug deep, my fastest two miles of those 129. David were the last two. How fast was that? I think my last one was just under six minutes. Because I was on adrenaline, my friend I saw, you know, I mean, I'm in New York City, and I crossed the Queensboro Bridge, and I could see Times Square in the periphery, and I'm getting it done.

David Novak 5:26 

You did get it done. And when you're training for a big run like that, you know, here's as much a challenge to really train your mind as it is to train your body. I think so how does being a professional mentalist help you tactically when you run marathons and ultra marathons like that?

Oz Pearlman 5:43 

Well, there's kind of two different facets. One is when I'm running a marathon, or a race, kind of this was a solo challenge. It was me against the clock. But when I line up at the start line of marathons, I like to get there and look at everybody and think in my head, I'm going to win this thing. And so now I have many times, which is very, very fun and very rewarding. But when it's my own solo adventure, it's kind of like one of those things where you have to decide before you start, I'm going to finish this no matter what. And you decide in your mind, there is no speech you're gonna give later, where you sit, oh, I gave it my best, there is no my best, you get it done. And you have to decide that before because I've had one or two races where I was at the start line. And I wasn't sure I was questioning my sanity and myself. And when you do that, think about it. As you're putting a crack in the door, just a little crack in when push comes to shove, and you're suffering and you're sleep deprived, and you know, everything's falling apart, that door opens to quitting. And you've got to keep that door slammed, shut, firm and shut. And you need to tell yourself before you even start, that I will not give up. And I think that's kind of an entrepreneurial spirit. A lot of the people you've spoken to here, I've seen it, which is their relentless. They have a relentless drive. And it's something that you get experience with and you build over time. I didn't have this overnight, it took a lot of failures to get to the point where now I believe in myself, I have confidence. I've done things, and I know what I can and can't do. And I try to keep going to the edge of what I can't do. That's the fun of these things. Can I pull it off?

David Novak 7:11 

Did you set that record?

Oz Pearlman 7:13 

Yeah, I've got the record.

David Novak 7:15 

You're amazing. That is amazing. Now, now, for those who've never seen you in action. You know what is a professional mentalist?

Oz Pearlman 7:24 

So it's a very weird job. This is not something I envisioned or dreamt of as a kid. Honestly, it's It's surreal to this day. A mentalist is kind of like a magician, but not a magician in the normal way that you think about it. When you think of David Copperfield, he's making a car disappear. He's doing a card trick. You're deceiving somebody's eyes. And you're doing that with either fast hands, slight illusions. My job is no fast hands that can tie my hands behind my back. I've learned how people behave. I've learned how people think. And I've learned how to influence their thoughts and know where they will go and hopefully do in an entertaining fashion. So it's magic of the mind. I can show up and do a show for 10,000 people with no props. I'm the show. Think of a card trick. Every card trick you've seen usually is the classic. I spread the cards out. It's a David pick one. And you take it out and somehow I'm going to find it right. But you know, there's a trick, David, you know that somehow I did something with my hands. You didn't see it. It was amazing. But I did a trick. Now this isn't supernatural, I want to make sure you understand that. But here the trick happens inside of your brain. Because I don't even need you to take a card out. I can look at you and know what cards you're going to pick before you even do it. So that's kind of wet involves magic of the mind.

David Novak 8:38 

I've heard you say that. You don't necessarily read minds, but you read people, right? You don't every leader has to do that. I mean, how do you learn how to read people?

Oz Pearlman 8:48 

I think you iterate. I think you learn from experience. It's kind of like comedians, most comedians will self admit that they were terrible for 10 years before they became funny. So think about this. If you're telling jokes, or if you're leading, you know, you can kind of get lucky you can build up there, there's a lot of success you're gonna have early on with mentalism, you need very thick skin, because most of the tricks, they don't work when you do them the first time. There's some that don't work the first 10 or 20 times. So imagine doing something, and God helped me my wife, who's seen it on you met her. She's not impressed by anything. So if I can do something, and my wife goes, Wow, oh my God, that's Mount Everest for me. If you can fool a mentalist wife, you are on a different level. So I had years where I would tell you I wasn't that good. And so what happened during those years is I fell back on doing magic tricks, which is a crutch. If it didn't work, I'd go back to doing my sleight of hand stuff, which trust me is still amazing. I'm not saying anything bad about magic. But to get to the point where I just didn't mentalism and I could rely on that for my act in my living. It was many years in the making, and you had to build up the confidence to get there. So to answer your question, you learn based on books, videos, and you just going out there and doing it, you have to perform, you have to put in those reps and those 10,000 hours

David Novak 10:06 

owes for our listeners at the end of the show, I'm going to see if you can read my mind, there may not be anything in it. But as far as I'm sure you may be able to find out what it is. So everybody stay tuned for this, you know. Now, as I got to tell you, my friends who were at the Hearst dinner party, you know, we're still talking about what we saw with you, and how in the world you quickly learned all about us and what we were thinking, which begs the question, how do you learn to be a mentalist, and you talked about takes iterations and whatever. But I would imagine other Mentalist, they don't really want to share their secrets, do they?

Oz Pearlman 10:40 

So it's funny, within our community, we are a very small subset. So if you're even think of like a magician's, as a, you know, the size of a basketball, if I had to sense it, I bet, you know, it would be a penny or a dime. And that basketball is how many are mentalists in the world, because it's just something that draws in a certain mindset. And most of us are quite good friends. And it's one of those things where I feel like it's the same way with CEOs, a lot of strong leaders that I've met, they have something in common, which is a natural curiosity, like possess, like they're able to kind of glean and really listen to others. And with mentalists, we're experts at listening. So we share a lot of things with each other because our ideas build the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And most of us are not as secretive, I would say, because the market is so large. And there's such a small supply of people that do what I do, that we're rarely competing with one another.

David Novak 11:35 

Oh, that makes sense. You don't and I saw you well, the judges on America's Got Talent. I mean, week after week, six episodes, they got better and better. And you don't miss a trick. But I'd have to imagine is that things sometimes they don't go as you'd plan it in a performance. And, you know, will you tell me about one of your big fails, you know, and how you adjust it in real time I

Oz Pearlman 11:57 

got, if I don't have any failure stories, that means that I haven't tried hard enough, because I like to keep pushing the boundaries. So the best failure stories generally are not on live TV, because I plan to the nth degree on live TV, you literally have plan a plan B, plan C all the way to plan Double Z, because you try to think in advance of everything that could go wrong. My background from schooling I went to University of Michigan was an engineering. So my whole job is reverse engineering, the human mind, think about it that way. Think about reverse engineering something. So one of my biggest fails, I can tell you this is I did a big show. It was one of the first times I didn't show for several 1000 people, I did it in Charlotte, I'll never forget this. And I'm on stage. And the things that usually create issues are things that are outside of your own control that you acquiesce to. So in this case, I was on stage and they had a genies lamp, the CEO and somebody with them was dressed as Aladdin, and a life sized Genie, and the lamp started spewing out smoke. And I'm doing a mind reading show where I have to look at people's faces. Because I'm a human lie detector, I literally, and literally, I'm telling you in front of 3000 people, I can't see my own hand in front of my face, much less the faces of the people I'm working with. And I'm trying to tell them cut the smoke cut the smoke. Oh, man. And so I'm still trying to perform, you gotta roll with the punches. It's showbiz. But I with it so hard. Everything goes wrong. I full circle, I think I managed to somehow escape but I'm flop sweating, you know where you're pouring sweat. Like I left that place. It was like I took a shower. The client was happy. I don't know how I thought they wouldn't even speak to me again. But you learn your lessons, which is try to create a situation that works for you. So you got to kind of set yourself up for success. So each one of these things is a great lesson when I kill it and have a great show standing ovation. That's fun and good for the ego. But the big failures are the ones that you learned the most from.

David Novak 13:50 

I love your comment that you're a human lie detector. That's a hell of a skill to have do you? Do you end up coaching CEOs and other people on how to read body language and how to detect people who might not be that forthcoming or, or sniff out conflict and in a meeting.

Oz Pearlman 14:08 

So honestly, I think that's going to be my next iteration. Because right now the facet of my life, which is entertaining, which is both TV and live events is just keeps me so busy and on the road. I haven't branched out into that sector yet as to honestly things like that, like how do you read people effectively? How can you use this for sales? Think about that. What is the number one rule in sales is reading what a person is actually thinking inside? Are they going to do business with me? What are they giving me resistance with right now? And how do you defuse that resistance? That's the most important thing in sales is learning how to build rapport and break down those barriers. And that's when the cash register starts opening up. So I think down the line, I might do that. But I'd want to do it very effectively, and in a genuine manner, because some of the things I do are built on entertainment. I can't just get into a room. If you know lawyers are interviewing jurors and tell you hey, that one's going to do this and that one's going to do this and To be very effective for civil trials, work within the confines of my performance. Some of the skills transferred are what I call everyday life, but not all of them.

David Novak 15:09 

And, you know, you've said you failed many times. And you know, that's really how you grew and became the best at what you do in the world. When you fail like that. You gotta recover. What are some of the things you've learned about recovering from failure? That could be helpful to any leader? Well, I

Oz Pearlman 15:26 

think one of the big ones is there's a huge fear of failure. And it's something that I think, especially with kids nowadays, especially given I don't know, I have three young children is that I want them to learn that failure is okay. And like we said, learning from failure, and that in a lot of my shows, if I mess up something, I think it humanizes me, I actually think that my show, if you were to do an objective survey, at the end of the show, that was Everything went perfect. And I'm sure one or two things went minorly. Wrong, you know, not cataclysmic failures, but a few things where they just didn't go, right. People actually prefer the second show. Because in their mind, it makes the rest of it more impressive, because in your mind, and this could be within any industry. They go, Hey, this guy's not just faking it, he didn't get it wrong on purpose, which makes everything else seem more impressive. And I've learned that over time, and that's why there's certain things I do in my show where I don't honestly know if they're gonna go right. And I'm telling you, David 100%, I like to kind of give myself challenges. And I have a joke in my shows I'm not very good at I just impressed myself. And people always laugh, and they don't realize I'm telling the truth, because I'm trying things that don't always work. And the only way to get better. It's kind of the way I always talk about stand up comedians, because that's my passion. I wish I was a stand up comic. I'm a mentalist, who wishes you a stand up comic is that they tell jokes and build new material, and you just don't know how to jokes gonna do until you get in front of an audience. The same applies to mentalism. And you got to take risks you really do in life. And I think you call it like, I don't really lead a team. I leave the audience on a unique experience, but you can't be afraid to lead. And if you always keep doing the same thing and stay in your comfort zone, you're you're just kind of stagnating, you need to push the boundaries a bit.

David Novak 17:08 

I've always found that when you make a mistake it as a leader, it humanizes yourself, if you acknowledge it and have a little self deprecating humor,

Oz Pearlman 17:14 

totally call it out. You can't do this thing of sweeping it under the rug, everyone, there is a person, they know you're a person, and it bonds them to you more if you play this character on stage, that seems very aloof. When I do my profession, it can go down this path of I would call it a little bit creepy, because think about if somebody really believes How does he know what I'm thinking, and every little thing I do with my body's telling him something that can make you feel very, you know, ill at ease, if you will. So I kind of take the sting out of it by making fun. And throughout my show, I kind of drunk breadcrumbs, I explain how I'm doing some of the things and people go, Oh, my God, I kind of get it. And then I take it to the next level. And then you go, I don't know how he just did that. But I capture your attention and bring you with me on kind of a unique ride, where you learn a little bit about the human psyche, and your own behaviors that you don't notice, but that once you notice them, it's hard to not see it that way. It's like at that dinner party, I showed you how to do the alphabet backwards and you go, Oh my god, I get it. It's not that hard.

David Novak 18:15 

Now I'm sure you'd agree you can't get better as a leader without a plan to help you develop. It's why send out a weekly leadership plan. This weekly plan gives you practical steps you can take to develop leadership skills that will help you grow. Each week focuses on a different leadership topic. Topics like culture control, innovation, and handling conflict. Now you might know a lot about these things. But how often are you taking time to actually get better at them? This free weekly leadership plan will help you do just that. It will improve your leadership skills and give you simple ways to navigate any leadership challenge you'll face. Sign up for the plan today at how leaders lead.com/plan. Now I'm sure you have some fun stories of where people don't appreciate you being able to read their minds. Do you have one of those stories for us?

Oz Pearlman 19:12 

I have a great story. I mean, like a little bit of a name drop and I did an event on Necker Island for Richard Branson. And this was just one of those incredible events where we're out on the beach. This is his island. There's about 40 guests there. And if you don't want to circle forms, when you see kind of something going on, you're at a cocktail hour and you hear some sort of noisy but what is that it's human nature to gravitate over. So it started with me with three people became 10 People became 20. And then at a certain moment, it became everybody attending this dinner. And then you know, Sir Richard kind of walks on over barefoot and like a white linen shirt like classic what you would expect of Richard Branson, and everyone parts like the Red Sea parts and Richard comes over. And I have just done a trick and it's something I do. It's something we might do here today where I like to and people think of open ended questions and I said to Richard, imagine that. I don't know, tomorrow you're having dinner with somebody famous, you know anybody, anybody in the world think of anybody in the world that you would like. And I kind of made out somebody dead or alive wherever you'd like Richard. And Richard goes, okay, okay. And then I have this thing I did on America's Got Talent. It's one of my signatures. I take out one of my business cards, and I start cutting, like cutting out a silhouette. And I cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And I finally say to him, Sir Richard, who were you thinking of? And he says, Barack, and it's funny, because he's so close with Barack Obama. He didn't say his last name. Barack Obama, he goes, Yeah, and I open up the silhouette. And it's a perfectly cut picture of Barack Obama and everyone goes ballistic. And then he leans in close. And he says to me, he goes, don't tell anyone, but he's coming over for dinner tomorrow. And I said, Give him this cut out for me, Richard. And it was just one of our great moments where it couldn't have been any more perfect. You know, it's like, it's just a great story and a great moment. And I'll never forget it. And I like also when when there's a challenge, or somebody hears the story, he walked over and just done something similar to somebody goes, You can't do that for me, I bet. And I go, Yes, I can. Let's do it. And that's the most satisfying when somebody else kind of calls you out, and you're able to deliver.

David Novak 21:11 

Do people ever think you're invading their privacy?

Oz Pearlman 21:13 

So no, I mean, some do. But it's one of those things where you can't do this against someone's will. It's a little similar to hypnosis, I have a show that's very wholesome. And it's very fun, and very quickly. And in short order. I give you a sense of my personality, what I'm doing, and the fact that this is not nefarious, you're not going to be clucking, like a chicken or anything of that sort, you're not going to reveal anything you don't want to reveal if that makes sense. Because I'm not a psychic, I don't know the future. I don't talk to dead people. It's like you said, I read people, and what they want to give you they don't realize, but I can lead you kind of down a path where I can figure certain things out. And generally speaking, they're not going to be you know, deep, dark secrets. They're much more things on the surface that you'll enjoy and have fun with. But some people in a show up, you're like, Why didn't you pick me and I go, I didn't pick you because I didn't think I could read you and they go, oh, you can't do with everybody a golf course not. It just doesn't work with everybody I like to pick the people that it works best with. That's my whole skill is knowing who will deliver the best reaction with the best, you know, routine or trick.

David Novak 22:18 

You listen to the show. And I usually interview CEOs or sports stars who lead incredible teams are 1000s of people and you're a different kind of leader is I've really done my homework on you. I mean, you've basically started your own business, you created your own product, you had to promote your own product, you had to go out and get your customers. I mean, you really have kind of you're a self made leader. And you know, I really want to get into how you've done that. But first, tell me a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you are today.

Oz Pearlman 22:50 

childhood, I was always very savvy at math, I had a perfect math score on the SATs, when I was 12. I was always very mathematical. I went to school for engineering and then worked on Wall Street. So the numbers thing has remained strong. At the forefront. I've just always been very good at math. And it's not like I'm not showing off. It just came easy to me. At a very young age, I was doing calculus or algebra, and it just, I wish I had as good of skills with it. Now, I don't use it as much and as effectively because my career doesn't involve math quite as much. But I think that I was always very analytical. And I would always challenge myself when we would go for example to a store, before they'd even bring it up, I would know the tax the amount and the change before the cash register would do it. And I think that learning how to think very quickly and testing myself on it. It's light OCD, when I would climb stairs, I would always take the stairs everywhere. I would always count the stairs, I would know how many stairs were everywhere I went. And I think that knowing how to count things and think about things very quickly, has been very instrumental in what I do for a living because when I'm reading people, it's happening at a split second rate for those who play ping pong. Ping Pong is a game of instinct where you don't think you just do. And I act the same way. Now when I'm doing my show, if you were to say to me, what did you just do? It could be the simplest trick where I just guessed a number. The trick took 10 seconds. I could write for you. I'm not even joking. A five page thesis about everything that went into you. How could it be that much stuff like because every little thing you did, when you open your mouth when you turn to the side, like every little thing you did is part of a formula for me to assess where you're going to go. And it's kind of like somebody playing jazz. I just have seen it so many 1000s of times that I've learned what it means. I don't know how to explain it. It's kind of like Google Translate. But my Google Translate is your thoughts.

David Novak 24:37 

How old were you when you got into magic? 13 years old.

Oz Pearlman 24:40 

When I got into this my parents had gotten divorced. And it was something for me to lose myself into kind of like a bit of a trauma in my life. And it was something that I took on that trauma and instead of me kind of doing things that are destructive or acting out it was I just got so into magic. I went to the library I checked out every book I read it cover to cover twice. I went to borders which is a Bit of a throwback because it doesn't exist anymore. But I bought all the books every single book. And my mom was supportive up until I started spending all my I didn't even have an allowance like all when she goes, You need to start working. So at 14, talking about entrepreneurial, I went out and got a job at a restaurant half a mile from my home, I walked in there, and nobody told me you can't do this. And I walked in and started doing tricks and talked myself into a restaurant gig. And I started working at that restaurant every week. And that's how I learned because there's nothing like restaurants, in terms of getting a thick skin. And you said it, I have a business where I am the product. And it's very important no matter what industry you're in to realize and separate between yourself and your product. And I learned that at a young age because there's a lot of rejection you deal with you walk up to a table, your son, shrimpy, 14 year old kid, they don't know who you are, they're having dinner, Why are you disturbing my peace? You know, I'm out for a fun night, I got a babysitter with the kids. So you need to quickly get through an answer a lot of questions fast. Am I any good? Am I crazy? Am I trying to get money out of you? Does the restaurant even know you're doing this? Is he going to leave soon, I know all these questions that are in your head, and I need to defuse that tension in a matter of seconds for you to start enjoying my show. And in the power dynamics in a group setting in a social setting, I want you to want me more than I want you very quickly. Because that's the best way in sales, no matter what product you're selling. If it becomes where your customer wants you, then you have the upper hand. And I don't say this in a bad way. But I like to approach a table where I'm not asking them, please watch me. I'm almost leaving and they say please don't leave. That's the dynamic you want.

David Novak 26:37 

Here you are, you're doing this magic. You're young kid, you're working in restaurants doing this and Okay. It's nice little hobby, you know, but hey, go get a real job. So then you go to the University of Michigan, you get this engineering degree, and you end up at Merrill Lynch on Wall Street. How do you go from Wall Street to the world of mentalism.

Oz Pearlman 26:59 

So I think you've got to find a silver lining and everything in life. And so mine was when my parents broke up, it was a pretty nasty split. And I was self sufficient. So I finished high school at 16. When I went off to college, I needed to find a way to pay for college, there was nobody paying my tuition, my rent, my food, all of those bills were coming from my own pocket and from whatever financial aid I could get. So I think that was both good and bad, because it made me very resourceful. I started two businesses in college, both which were very profitable. And I did magic on the side. So I did it more as a way of survival than when you call it a hobby. It was a hobby, but I actually lost some of my interest in magic, because I had to do it. It's very different when you do something for fun. And when you do something because you have to. And so I was doing because I had to pay for college. So I had this default setting where David I was always networking. I was always in situations where I was assessing where can I meet people that will either I don't want to say further my career, but that I can give them some sort of value. And this would be if I'm at a restaurant, I met somebody and they mentioned Oh, wow, man, this guy's great. I wonder if we could have my you know, company, as soon as they say that I don't wait for that lead. To come back to me. I proactively say, Oh, my goodness, I do corporate events all the time, even if I've never done one in my whole life. And I say, let me get your info. And I'm gonna follow up with you. And I'd love to get back to you soon on this. And you listen, you always keep your ears open because opportunities present themselves. And I learned more often than not where my target market was, I started realizing, oh, you know what, a lot of people that come to my restaurant, they play golf, well, why don't I go to that country club, meet the manager. And don't wait for things to happen, make things happen. If you don't try, you know, you miss every shot, you don't take I'm giving you a lot of cliches, but they're so true. And I think that when I went to Merrill Lynch, I did that, because I did not know you could be a professional magician. I thought that's only David Copperfield or people on TV. I didn't have a mentor, or somebody that was doing that already. So I didn't have somebody that I could mirror. And then once I started working my day job, I couldn't stop doing my night job because David I still networked if I went to a restaurant out just with friends, I'm going to start doing magic. And next thing you know, I'm gonna meet the manager. Next thing you know, I'm gonna have a show there on Wednesday. And so I would go to parties that I meet the event planner, and I was always, always always performing. I was always getting my name and card out there. And what pretty soon happened is within a few years of working on Wall Street, I was working every single night of the week doing shows. So at some point, you got to take a leap of faith and go after your dream. And you can't do it while you're tethered to a day job. So I needed that kick in the butt. I needed to wake up one morning, sit on my couch, twiddling my thumbs and go oh my god, I don't have a paycheck coming in anymore. And that's what you need to do. You got to get out of your comfort zone.

David Novak 29:50 

What advice can you give people on how to muster up the courage? I mean, how did you muster up the courage? What process did you go through to make that big leap because you did have the courage have heard of a, let's call it a real job at Merrill Lynch, you've working on the side, you have side hustles, as people say, these days, you know, what was it?

Oz Pearlman 30:07 

I think that I think that there's a few things when I look back at it, and you really try to stack your advantages. One is I had been smart from years before I'd been saving money. So what that did was gave me flexibility to say if I quit this job, and I don't get any gigs, and I screw this up, I had a runway, kind of like, if you're a VC, give me a year, let me see how I do with this. And I had a bit of runway, also timing is so big in life, I left my job in oh five had this happened in oh eight or oh nine during the Great Recession, I might not have done it, I might have been too scared and said, you know, what, what's the worst case scenario, I'll go get another job on Wall Street. But if the world is ending, and I've either got a family or big bills to pay, I kept my overhead really low. And I was younger and didn't have any kids yet, or any real dependents. So a lot of those things is you got to create your own luck. I mean, you got to be lucky. But you got to plan ahead. So if you have that dream, start to get your chips in place, think about it. And next up, find people that have done what you want to do find who you want to be five years from now, a mentor. And I found magicians who I looked up to and I admired. And it's amazing what two things will do persistence. And honestly listening, I would go to them instead of with a give and take or give, give give, I would say let me take you to lunch. And just, you know, kind of give them the accolades and tell them how incredible they are. And everything about them pay some compliments, look into their work, don't just do the surface dig a little deeper. And I found that people were willing to give when they saw that I was honestly very genuine, and that I had a true interest that I wasn't trying to steal from them. All I wanted was to glean any insights so that I don't have to learn the mistakes that they made. I want to learn from their mistakes ahead of time.

David Novak 31:50 

You start this business, basically, as a side hustle, do you know a second job or a third job, maybe even a fourth job the way it sounds you had a lot of things happen. A lot of balls in the air. Describe your business today. You know, obviously you started out small, but tell us about what your businesses today.

Oz Pearlman 32:07 

They always say it's 10 years to become an overnight success. And that literally is the case for me because 10 years after I quit my job is when I was on America's Got Talent. And that show just was kind of like jet fuel for my career. Because it exposed me to a wide audience on a national international scale. And it also gave me a level of confidence in my own abilities. You know, when you go to Radio City Music Hall, and you're doing a show live on stage for 6000 people and 15 million people are watching live, you get this sense of even if you kind of thought you were pretty good, you get a lot of honest, positive reinforcement from people at the top of the food chain and entertainment, you say, oh my god, I can do this. So what happened for me during that shows, I made a committed effort on how I wanted to be branded. And some people I think go on some of these shows are getting big opportunities and don't realize you're creating your narrative, your story. And with businesses so important. And my idea was I'm going to be corporate nature, versus like, I could have been a rock star or a Criss Angel or be edgy. I wanted to be squeaky clean. And I wanted to appeal to a corporate audience. And there was a real reason for that, because that's my backbone. I know how corporations work. I know the lingo. I know the terminology, I have a lot of industries that I feel very comfortable in. Even if I were to leave my current profession and go into those industries working within them, I think I would have a lot of value to offer. And so I went in there with that vision of you watch me. And if you're a corporate buyer, or somebody in the corporate sector, you go, this guy would be perfect at our blank event XYZ sales kickoff holiday party product launch. And I kind of hit the ground running as soon as I was on there, of becoming bigger and bigger in the corporate sector and doing these big conferences, these big events, and also finding places to become relevant on TV, and different channels and always delivering value. Based on my target audience. This is a huge thing. When most people go on TV, they always try to devalue what's special about them. Let me show you this trick, or what's great about me, especially people in my industry, when I go there, I go in knowing exactly who's watching this TV show, and telling the producer what I can add to their viewer. If I'm on ESPN. I'm gonna know the ins and outs of who's watching it. Are they in NFL baseball, we're going to do something all about baseball or football. If I go on Rachael Ray, it's going to be all about housewives, from this age to this age. They're raising their kids. They're thinking about whatever appeals to them, is what I'm going to take and create a routine around and people like that because you take the guesswork out of it for them.

David Novak 34:38 

You know, it's interesting to see you go on America's Got Talent. It's six episodes, you go all the way to the finals. You know, I was just curious like that first episode. Were you planning to go to the sixth year you said Man, I gotta knock it out of the park this first time you know, because you know when you're as a leader and you got that one shot, you got to kind of go all in. Did you go all in with your best off the first time, or how'd you look at that.

Oz Pearlman 35:02 

So I had tried out for that show once before. And the nitty gritty is, that's one of those shows where they have this thing called a cattle call, where you go with four or 5000 people almost like in an arena. This happened in a pier in New York, and you just wait all day that you walk in, you have 30 seconds, do your thing and see if it's any good. I had tried out once before that, and got nowhere. So the timing wasn't right, you name it. So I went in there and did not care. I was so loosey goosey, and had such an attitude that was so relaxed, because I honestly got didn't think I was gonna get on and didn't care one way or the other. And when you're nervous about something, actors always talk about this during an audition, you never put your best foot forward, when you walk in there and don't care. There's this aura of relaxation, and you just go in there, and your body's not tense. And you just do a great job. And that's what happened to me during that audition. And so every single round, I was hyperfocus. The same way when I'm running a race, I don't think about 100 miles from now that'll kill you. If you think I have another 100 miles to run, you're gonna fall apart. I stay in this moment. And every single round all I thought about was do the best I can possibly do right now. worry about the rest later. People that I know that plan four rounds later, they don't even make it through the first round. So every single round was elation. I was on the top of the world. I'm like, oh my god, I can't believe I made it followed by absolute panic, because I had to plan the next round because I never plan the next rounds. And it's

David Novak 36:28 

it's great. It's amazing. You parlayed that exposure into you know, a business that is now booming. And you know, you're actually hard to get a an event with you, because you're so busy. You know, and you also had a show on NBC called owes nose and you want an Emmy for it. Tell us about that show and how it came about.

Oz Pearlman 36:44 

It's one of those funny things where I can go back in time to me sitting at a barbecue a fourth of July party with somebody that my wife got her business degree, a Master's at Columbia, and somebody that she had studied with her brother in law was a TV producer. And we're sitting there having a beer at a barbecue watching our kids not thinking anything of it. And somehow he says, Oh yeah, I saw you on America's Got Talent I don't even know as a TV producer. And long story short, a year later, just by this chance encounter, I had been invited to go to NBC and do something for them and pitch an idea. And it was kind of a seed that had been planted a year earlier. The show didn't go anywhere. We didn't even do the show. And then suddenly they had a slot because the crew was ready. But somebody on the show I can't remember got sick or something happened. And so they had a couple of weeks where they had an empty schedule. And they said to me, Hey, that show that you pitched us a year ago? Can you make it happen in five days? It was less than a week? And I go Yes, always say yes. And then figure it out later. And so I said yes. And I didn't believe it was going to happen. But somehow, three days later, when they send me a call sheet and they say we're going to hear here and here I go, Oh my god, I told my wife ago, we're really shooting a TV show for NBC. So always be prepared. And I love a deadline. If you tell me, Hey, you're gonna be on TV tomorrow, make up something new. I will do better with that. And having 24 hours of procrastination and insanity that if you say, Hey, we're gonna shoot something in six months, I do better under pressure. I love pressure. And it forces me to elevate my game. You gotta force creativity with kind of a deadline.

David Novak 38:18 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with those Perlman in just a moment. I love how hose isn't afraid to push the boundaries and get outside of his comfort zone. It reminds me of the excellent conversation I got to have with Ginni Rometty, the former CEO of IBM, as she rose through the ranks of IBM, from systems engineer to CEO, she had to get really comfortable doing things that were outside her comfort zone. But let me tell you, that is where you can grow and learn the most,

Ginni Rometty 38:47 

you will only grow when you're uncomfortable. And I actually got to the point where I love to feel uncomfortable, because then I'm like, Yes, I'm learning, I'm learning. And so I would even look to put myself as a CEO, particularly in those positions, right? You know, I'd be seeing a client that ran a railroad, I got to learn railroad business before I get there, you know, and it was like, if you start feeling like you're not I would say to people, if you're feeling so comfortable in a roll, you do need to change it because you are not learning. So, growth and comfort, never coexist.

David Novak 39:18 

Catch my whole conversation with Ginni Rometty, Episode 66 here on how leaders lead

you know, you talk quick, you move quick, you run quick, you do all this stuff quick, you know, when do you slow down so that you can actually reflect and think about where you want to take your business or do you?

Oz Pearlman 39:39 

I need to more I need to I've worked on being present and mindful. And I think in the last few years, especially having young kids, I've really taken a step back and realize you don't get this time back. That clock just keeps ticking for everybody. And you don't get it back especially like I watched my kids be one two, my oldest is six now and just those yours are so amazing. And you need to sit there, turn the phone off and really revel in the moment and know that business will be there if you've built a good base. And I've learned that from some people that I know that are far more successful than I am in all different industries, and just seeing how they multitask, and how you take your life and make compartments. And when it's family time, focus fully on family time. And certain things like racing, I've really taken some time because in the past, I was so competitive, that my fastest marathon I've ever run was a 223. And when I finished that marathon, David, I was miserable. I was mad at myself, I felt I should have gone faster, I was disappointed. And it kills me because most likely in my life, I will never run that fast again. I mean, I might, but it's unlikely. So the fact that I didn't enjoy that day, I realized it a year or two later and said, every time you run, realize that tomorrow, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow, I don't know what could happen. So enjoy this because it's a blessing. And I've kind of taken that mindset, and I apply it to the shows. People always tell me you get done with the show where you haven't fun, I go, I'm living my dream. I get to have fun on stage, entertain people give them memorable experiences. I won the lottery of life like I never ever for a moment, forget that.

David Novak 41:14 

You do have a great product. And that's why you've been successful. And you customize that product you get in your customers minds. It seems like before you ever go on stage, walk me through the process that you use to create that customization for your act, and use what you're doing recently with the NFL as an example, which by the way, I saw what you did with the Baltimore Ravens. I mean, I'm still laughing I'm an IT was so good. You blew those guys away. They're they're just hooting and hollering they can't believe you did what you did. But how do you get ready for that? How do you customize your show?

Oz Pearlman 41:48 

So I go in there, and I want to appeal to the people in that room. And I want to know the ins and outs of what makes them tick. Right? If you're an NFL player, you've been competitive since you were a kid, you've been studying game footage, you know the ins and outs of your sport. And I want to go to that person with that mindset. And so the things we did, for example was I could do a prediction and I can do a prediction about you know, here's a car get picked, here's a color, that stuff doesn't matter to them. Right? What matters to them is what they eat live in sleep, which is football. And so I said, See yourself at the end of the season playing against any team. And I always like to have people change their mind. Because when you're watching on TV, I'm the biggest skeptic in the world, David that's how I became a mentalist. So I go, what have you set this up for Tony? So change your mind? Change your mind 10 times and then stumble on a team that you absolutely you didn't even think about What team are you gonna play with? And I'm making a prediction in that team. And then I say, What's the score going to be in that hypothetical game? And I want them to live that moment. Because once your emotions are tied in, and they're saying themselves, we busted our butt all season, we made it to the Super Bowl, who are we playing? What are we going to achieve? So now you've got something that they're kind of attached to. And so I always do things like that, like I have, I have them think of something that will appeal to their day to day life. If I'm working for a pharmaceutical company, they just did a product launch, we're going to take their brand, which took years to develop, like what do we want people to think of when we hear the name of this product, and take that and tie that brand into a mind reading routine, where we're going to do this big reveal, and at the end, you're not even gonna see it come in and bam, that brand appears either in a number in an envelope or somewhere there. And people love that because it's shown that you've gone the extra mile. It's not about me, it's about them. And so I try to structure my act in a way where you leave with a few tidbits because I know you're not going to leave no one my show from beginning to end you're gonna leave with at most three takeaways. That's how much the human brain can fit in a busy day. And I want to make sure that I weave those in organically, so that your audience member whether that's a client, whether that's someone in house leaves with the information you want, and it's sticky, it doesn't disappear, because it's tied to something emotional, or something memorable. And that's kind of an advertisers and marketers dream is how do you retain information?

David Novak 44:00 

You know, you have to be good on stage. And you've learned how to present in every leaders got to have that big presentation at some point in their life. What advice can you give people on, on how to get ready to present?

Oz Pearlman 44:14 

I think one of the big ones is you need to figure out who your characteristics. And there's something to be said for some people have a great sense of humor. And if you can take a little bit of if it's very serious content, let's say you're doing a speech and you're a leader, and they're not always good talks, you can be going through rough times. It can be great times, but there's always problems when you're leading and if you're especially if you're senior leadership at a company, if you can kind of parlay some jokes and learn how to make people laugh, always break the tension. And the best way I find to do that is a little bit of self deprecation is what you just said, making fun of yourself. Everyone likes to see. You kind of take a little bit out of somebody at the top. If they can humanize themselves and bring yourself to a level the more you can appeal to somebody directly, the better. I don't like going directly off a script I Ever have, I like to know what I'm going to say. But I structure it in a way where I can be a little more loosey goosey. I enjoy that. Personally, some people need to stick to a script. But the more you can deviate a little bit, and allow yourself to be comfortable and allow your true self to come out the better. I think that's a big one. And then also connect with people in the audience. So many people when they speak, I watch them just speak to the crowd. Know, look some people in the eye and see that connection, see their face. And I think that brings you back down that really does a great job for me when I'm performing. And this could be for hundreds of people or 1000s of people I walk out in the audience. And I have a show that's interactive. I don't just talk. I always gauge the audience. Throw in some questions, see where people stand, see their facial expressions, kind of the give and take with the audience with my whole show is everything. If you're simply speaking, it's not a q&a session, see the audience's reactions, learn a little bit more from them. And let that energy feed you.

David Novak 45:59 

You really are I don't know if you know this, but you're the consummate salesman. I mean, you are a salesman for the word go. I mean, there's no question about. And by the way, everybody's got to sell something. I mean, Bob Dylan said that everybody sells something, and you have to be good. As a leader. There's nobody I know that that doesn't sell. I'd like to hear about your toughest sale and how you persevered and owes fashion to get it done.

Oz Pearlman 46:22 

Well, for years before I was on America's Got Talent, I was a one stop shop, meaning I was the guy picking up the phone, if you want to call and book me, I was the booking manager, I was the guy doing the show, I was the travel agent, I was everything. It was one person. Thankfully, the one thing that Americans got talent allowed me to do was get some representation, which in entertainment is great, because you don't want to be the guy at the front of the store. Because then everybody can negotiate with you. They know you're in the store. Nobody goes to Walmart and says, I'll give you five bucks for this thing. It's not my store, it's Walmart. So if you have somebody doing the negotiating for you, it's better. It's just always a better thing. It's kind of like why sports stores have agents. So when I was doing the bookings, the sales were always very difficult because I was the product. But I also loved what I did for a job. The fact that people were paying me to do this almost felt deceptive. Do you know that feeling when you're your own worst enemy, because I could be doing this for free, I don't have to go to a job and punch in in the morning or take the train at 7am. I'm living my dream by performing and getting paid. So I found that I didn't know my fair market value. And that I was willing to take a haircut and negotiate down all the time when I didn't need to until you're willing to hear the word no, you are not priced appropriately. And that's in any profession. Unless you're selling a widget that you're you need to find that supply and demand curve econ 101 to maximize your profits, depending on what you want to do. But I was doing this thing where I never want to hear the word. No, I just want to hear yes. Okay. Oh, then we'll go lower. Okay, yes, great. And I was doing hundreds of events a year, way too many, when I should have been doing more quality events. And that's something that I learned over time. So honestly, I think my worst sales tactic. It sounds like I'm a good salesman now. But in the past, I would undersell myself. And in so many industries, I think you don't realize your own value. So a great thing in a negotiation. As soon as you're done speaking, and you've quoted a price or you've laid out your value, done, no more words, let that person speak. Because if you speak, you almost always reduce your power in that situation. So I learned over time that the best sales tactic is you say it, and then you let it sit.

David Novak 48:32 

You're also like an incredible body language reader. I mean, what are two or three tips, maybe you could give us real quick on on how to read body language.

Oz Pearlman 48:40 

I think a lot of them people know inherently but they don't trust, everyone's a little bit different. But you've got to learn a person and what they do. You can tell very clearly, when somebody is leaning in and interested if you speak a little more quietly, and you take your time, which I finally did hear you notice people leaning in, and you notice when their interest is there reverses there's so much to be said for the fact when people start zoning out, I can see when the eyes glaze. We're seeing each other on video now. But you can tell the tone of their voice. You can see when somebody is on the edge of their seat and when they aren't. And you can also tell by their eyes when they're thinking of what they're going to say. And this is very important in my profession. Because when people start thinking about what they're going to say they're no longer listening to you. And so much of what happens in an argument I can tell you this with my spouse, I can tell you this in a non confrontational way when I'm performing, and I want to make sure instructions come across effectively is I pause and I watch them because your eyes are the windows into your brain. Your eyes are almost like on a floppy drive on a hard disk. When it goes to certain sectors to read the memory. Your eyes are looking into your brain. It's like Neuro Linguistic Programming. To think of what's happening in your brain. Your eyes are actually connected in certain ways to where you're going in the different lobes of your brain. So watch some But when they're really listening to you, they're staring you in the eyes. And it's very clear their eyes don't flicker. But when they're about to say something, a lot of the time in their mouth or tongue is moving, their eyes are starting to move around. And they're trying to define their argument or what they're going to say next. And they are not hearing a word, you're saying at that point, it's going into like a different sector of their memory. So it's very helpful when you're having a conversation to know when to pause. And when to give them time to reply.

David Novak 50:27 

Good advice. And, you know, oh, this has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with our lightning round of questions here. Are you ready for this?

Oz Pearlman 50:34 

Lightning baby? Let's do it. David. It's so much fun.

David Novak 50:36 

Okay, what are three words others would use to describe you? Passionate,

Oz Pearlman 50:41 

ambitious. And I hope funny, fingers crossed. Funny.

David Novak 50:46 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be and why?

Oz Pearlman 50:50 

I thought I'd love to sit down have a conversation with Obama, because he's one person I've never met. But to be him for a day. I think it'd be very exciting. I would I would enjoy that. Your biggest pet peeve? Loud gum chewing is a big one.

David Novak 51:02 

What's something about Israel, you'd only know if you were born there.

Oz Pearlman 51:06 

I'll tell you something I knew when I was growing up is that there were a lot of jellyfish. And one summer. I as a kid was given a spear and I was out there like skewering jellyfish, there were hundreds of them. And I love that that they gave me responsibility. It's like an eight year old kid and handed me a sharp spear. And I always just admired the fact this random lifeguard found me I'm like, how do you trust me with this? I liked the fact that kids in Israel are very independent from a young age that might have been the Times versus now I find especially living in New York. Parents are very helicopter I had so much autonomy as a kid when I was in Israel that I loved it. If I got in

David Novak 51:41 

your car and turn on the radio, what would I hear?

Oz Pearlman 51:45 

You would hear Sirius Satellite comedy or you in here kids stuff? A lot of kids French podcasts because my kids speak French. And I don't get to listen what I want in the car. Usually the kids get what they want.

David Novak 51:56 

What's a book that you've read? That's made a big impact on your career,

Oz Pearlman 52:00 

Dale Carnegie How to Win Friends and Influence People a book that holds to this day, 100 years later,

David Novak 52:05 

what's something about you that few people would know? I love science

Oz Pearlman 52:08 

fiction, my favorite thing to read, I absolutely love to lose myself in a science fiction book. I think it's almost my favorite escape.

David Novak 52:15 

Favorite stage you've ever been on? Radio City Music Hall. That's the end of the lightning round. Just a couple more questions. And then I want you to test me

Oz Pearlman 52:24 

do something fun, I got some fun stuff in line for you. I love it.

David Novak 52:27 

I know you've performed in pediatric cancer wings. And I just can't thank you enough for doing that kids and parents, they have so much fun with you. It takes their minds off from what they're suffering from. Can you tell us a story about one of those experiences,

Oz Pearlman 52:41 

I was in that pediatric cancer, it's for the sewn conference Foundation. And some of the kids were too sick to come in the room or their immune compromised. So you know, the show is partially for people in the room. But also they have a TV that they air it almost like this would be a video in their TVs you understand in their rooms, almost like a TV channel, just for the hospitals. And the kids call in. And I had this one kid call in. And he just loved the show. And he called in four times in a row. I don't even know how they allowed it. Like the phone he'd call in. And he'd be like, Guess my card. And they'd be like, Okay, get another card in this kid just called in. And it was so funny because it kept getting it right. And I could tell that he kept getting more and more mad. And I just love the fact that these kids, you know, you want to feel I don't want to say you feel bad, but you have this sympathy. But meanwhile, this is their life, this is what they know. And I love that positive energy that I got, I walked out of there on cloud nine, you don't have it. It's one thing to do a corporate show or do some on TV. But that kid gave me more than I gave them that day. Like it felt just so amazing to know that you could be going through all this. You're away from your friends, your family, you're in chemo, God knows how sick you feel every day. And that positive, uplifting energy that they had in the fact that this kid kept busting my balls was just so funny, you know, the fourth time you call him like he's on the following guess.

David Novak 53:57 

It was great. That's great. And I'm glad you do that. And I know you do a lot of it. So thank you. And, you know, I was? What's a vision for your career that you have now that you're really excited about and chasing after? More of the same? Or do you have something out there that you go? Well, this is where I'm really hit.

Oz Pearlman 54:15 

There's definitely things that are on my bucket list that I haven't done. One of them is a big residency in New York, which I think will eventually build to a Broadway show. At some point. I think that's something that was just kind of like defines your legacy is to be on the biggest stage, the biggest lights and kind of deliver a show. on that level. I want to be fully prepared. It's kind of like when I did America's Got Talent, the first audition, I didn't make it. And that was the best thing that ever could have happened to me. Because those next few years I got all those reps. I did hundreds of shows I got better and the timing was right. The timing was right. And the same thing I think when I'm at the pinnacle of my career and I'm really firing on all cylinders is when I'm going to go for that type of goal. The TV show owes knows unfortunately we got canceled and I love doing it. I loved everything about it. We won that me and so I would love to have it done their TV show whether that's on regular TV, which every year keeps being less and less, or one of the streaming channels, or even one of the big online networks, something that I can really sink my teeth into, and do some fun, unique stuff that no one's ever done in mind reading and mentalism. That's what I want to do next,

David Novak 55:17 

in what's one bit of advice you would give to aspiring leaders,

Oz Pearlman 55:21 

I think the biggest one is to always kind of look to see the value you deliver to others, I have a profession, where it's very focused on me. And it's like, look at the cool things I can do and look at how I can fool you and look how people will think, Oh, I'm smarter than you because I can do a trick. And I always take that out of the equation. And I want to walk into a room. And I want to make it all about my customer or all my audience and know what appeals to them. And my job is not for you to walk out of that room thinking how great I was, it's to create a memorable moment for you to take with you for your life that I hope you will continue to talk about and tell others about. And that's what I focus on is creating very memorable moments for other people. I'm just a piece of that memory. But that's what it's all about. And I want to do something right now let's make a memorable moment for you. I told you that I'm a numbers guy I'm sending you before we do this. I don't want you to read it. You can but I don't want people to say I influenced you. I'm going to send you right now I'm texting you. I just wrote you the word. Hi, did you get that? Yes. Okay. Don't look at the next one. I'm sending you something, it's actually a number. And I don't know if it has a meaning. But we're going to see in a moment. And it's going to be a four digit number. But I want you to craft something for me now. Because I said, I talked all about memorable, I want you to think because your life is made up of memorable moments from the month, day and year that you were born. Those moments create your life, I want you to think about somebody in your family you care about deeply, or a very good friend. And I want you to change your mind a few times. David, I want our listeners to know how spontaneous and impulsive this is in the moment. Can you think of somebody right now? That means something to you in your life? Yes, I do. What year was that person born? Please tell us what year? Or do you know the month and day of their birthday?

David Novak 57:06 

Yes. May 25.

Oz Pearlman 57:09 

Okay, 525. That's fine. 525. I want you to remember that number. If you'd like to, you're welcome to write it down. But 525 Okay, and you just came up with that on the fly. Is that right? This is not set up? This is not staged in any way. I want to make sure our viewer knows that.

David Novak 57:25 

Absolutely. No, David, by the way, I'm anxious right now. You know, I'm like everybody else. I don't want to make a fool of myself.

Oz Pearlman 57:31 

No, there's no fool. There's no fool. You can't make a fool. No. Think of somebody else. Or you know what, think of a year in your life that had a real impact. Now, I don't want to tell you what this year is. But for some people, it's the year that they married their spouse. For other people. It's the year I found it a business for other people. It's the year that my first child was born anything you want, I don't want you to feel like I am pushing you in a direction. So again, change your mind several times. But tell me a year that for whatever reason was pivotal in your life. Can you tell me what that year is? Please? 1997 1997. Now I want to ask you a question. What was the meaning of 1997 to you?

David Novak 58:12 

That's when yum brands was spun off from PepsiCo.

Oz Pearlman 58:16 

So it's a business where it's something as we've been talking about business, and that was something in your life. So I want to make sure I got it. 1997 was the year that was pivotal in your life, somebody that you care about deeply, was born on 525. Is that right? Right. And I go full circle at the start of this podcast, I told you that the sum of the parts when you run an organization properly is greater than the whole. That's what our leaders want to do. Before we even mention any of these things. I sent you a number can you grab your phone, please and check your texts I wrote Hi. And then my next text message was a number and I told you it was four digits. I did it before you did a thing. Can you tell us what that number was? Please?

David Novak 58:52 

8742.

Oz Pearlman 58:54 

What I'd like you to do is I'd like you to add up my number and your numbers. So if you could get your calculator, and I want you to add up those numbers 8742 plus 525 plus 1997. And can you tell me what that added up to please?

David Novak 59:14 

I got 11,264 112641 1264.

Oz Pearlman 59:18 

Now I want to ask you a question. Because I told you I want to bring it all back around. I told Richard Branson you asked me about a good story. I told him to close his eyes and think of somebody who would sit down and have dinner with and I said it could be dead or alive male or female. I want you to close your eyes, David. And that same question that I asked him, I've asked you, I want you to see you sitting down to an interview. Okay, you're on how leaders lead and somebody that you either find fascinating, interesting, and like I said, dead or alive, male or female. you're picturing the person you would love to sit down and have a great scintillating podcast interview with is that right? Yes. As If you can see this person's face, open your eyes, I think that your instinct would have been to go with somebody alive. Am I correct? Is your person alive? And well? Yes. And the next thing is you got to be honest, you could have thought of anybody, there is no way I could know who you would have picked. Are we in agreement?

David Novak 1:00:18 

There's no way you know, who I picked. But I think you're fascinated

Oz Pearlman 1:00:21 

by large organizations, even though you brought me in, and I'm leading a team of one. You'd like to see how people grow their business how people pivot in hard times. And I think your mind would have gone to all different brands. And you went to a leader of our time, and you said yourself who is really shifted year after year and gone through. And I'm seeing one person front and center. And it's Amazon. Jeff Bezos is who you thought of, isn't it?

David Novak 1:00:45 

Yes, it is.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:47 

Be honest, I need you to be honest. We're not making

David Novak 1:00:49 

no absolutely it is Jeff Bezos. And by the way, I've tried to get him on this podcast and have not been able to do it yet.

Oz Pearlman 1:00:55 

Is there any way that I could have known that there was no way you would known them? And David, here's the thing. All of the little pieces come together. You could have thought of anybody you could have thought of any year in your life. I could have sent you any number before you started. But I know what you're going to do if you get Jeff Bezos on here, which I know you will one day is you're going to first thing you're gonna do is go to his Wikipedia. And can you do me a favor right now? And I want you to search Jeff Bezos go to his Wikipedia if you don't mind, because you're going to do a deep dive you're going to do what you did for me. You're going to look up all the info about that, man. Okay, I got it. I told you. My job is to create memorable moments from the month day and year that you were born. And all of that added up to the number 112 64. Can you tell me what is Jeff Bezos his birth date?

David Novak 1:01:38 

January 12 1964 112 64.

That's a memorable moment, my friend. I don't know how the hell you did it. You did it.

Oz Pearlman 1:01:51 

And Jeff Bezos, when you hear this, you're coming on the podcast. They're paying it forward for you, David. He's gonna be on here. I'm making my prediction right here. Now.

David Novak 1:01:58 

You got it right there. Great job. Great job. You know, thank you so much for being on I appreciate it was really, really fun. Thank you

Oz Pearlman 1:02:08 

haven't got one, buddy. Thanks so much.

David Novak 1:02:18 

Well, I still can't get over that incredible reveal of 112 64. I mean, how on the earth it owes pull that off. We didn't plan a thing. I swear, he's just that good. But you know, even in that trick, was wasn't putting the focus on his ability, he was creating a memorable moment. For me, it was all about me, my podcast and my dream guests. And that's the big takeaway for us all as leaders. If we want to create memorable moments for our customers, we need to start by understanding their interest in what matters to them. Our sales pitch can't be just why our business is impressive. It has to show customers what's in it for them. So this week, I want you to ask your team, what you could do to create a memorable moment for your customers. Just asking that question is going to help you get inside of your customers heads and figure out what they really want. show customers that it's all about them, not about your company, not about you, and you'll win so much more business. So do you want to know how leaders lead? Well, we learned today is the great leaders create memorable moments and lead themselves. Coming up next week on how leaders lead is Dan Rooney founder and CEO of Folds of Honor,

Dan Rooney 1:03:32 

the greatest challenge was learning to go from a single seat fighter pilot, a doer to a leader. It's ironic, right? Because the military spent millions of dollars teaching how to lead flights of men into combat, but leading in the military is a lot different than leading in the civilian world because it was do it because I say I do it as opposed to being influential in getting people to do it because of the why we all hear about.

David Novak 1:04:03 

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be