David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. As the leader, you face Long Day's tough decisions and constant pressure. And you want to navigate it all with courage and creativity and all the other great qualities we talked about here on this podcast. But to do all of that, day in and day out, you need one thing, energy and lots of it. Without it, you just won't have the strength and stamina it takes to inspire others. If you want to become a great leader, you have to know how to manage your mental and physical energy. Fortunately, today's guest is the perfect person to help you learn how I'm talking with Brian Cornell, who has served as the CEO of target for the last eight years. I gotta tell you, he is so upbeat and positive, he is always dialed in. And it's his unrelenting energy that has helped him lead target as they've navigated massive retail challenges and come out even stronger. He's going to inspire you with his energy. And he's also going to tell you exactly what changed 15 years ago when he started to manage it differently. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Brian Cornell.

David Novak 1:35 

I got to tell all my listeners out there that I'm looking at a guy who is dressed in 1,000%, red, and he's got his annual target meeting. And he's taken a break from that meeting to do this podcast. And Brian, thanks so much for doing it. I appreciate it.

Brian Cornell 1:53 

David, it's great to be with you. This is my favorite week of the year, because we bring all our teams together the chance to reconnect and re energize, celebrate everything we've done and get ready for the holiday season. So in between, I get to spend time with David Novak.

David Novak 2:08 

Thanks for doing that. You know, you just recently received the 2022 visionary award from the National Retail foundation. Congratulations.

Brian Cornell 2:18 

Well, David, thank you. But I gotta tell you, I view this as a big target team award. And when I accepted it on stage in New York, I just talked about it. This is all about the team, who put together a great strategy and has developed an amazing culture, and has gotten out there and taking care of our guests and each other. Since the start of the pandemic, David, we've added over $30 billion to our top line revenue number 30 billion. And that was all about a team coming together and doing the right things for the guests. We serve and taking care of each other, but pretty amazing results. And I share that that is a big team honor for Team target.

David Novak 2:59 

Well, that's great, you know, and I have to ask you, what's your vision for target? And tell us the story of how you developed? Do you have a phrase that you have? Or Emma, how do you describe the vision that you have for target,

Brian Cornell 3:12 

I'm here, this is the ninth time I've been part of the team when we have this phone national meeting in September. So nine years have gone by really quickly for me. And, you know, when I first joined those first couple of years, we did a lot of testing. And we did a lot of learning. But probably most importantly, David, we spent a lot of time talking to consumers and listening to the guests that shops or stores. And back then most people thought physical retail was going to go away. And it was all about kind of this digital experience. And as we talked to people we kept hearing, it wasn't an either or it was an and people wanted an opportunity to shop in a great store with really good customer service, with inspiring merchandise with great value and the ease and convenience of shopping online. So our vision was how do we make sure we bring both of those together. And we really anchored on our stores being kind of the hub of everything we do. So today if you want something from Target, you can shop at your local store, you can place an order on your iPhone and combine a couple of hours and pick it up. Or for some even better. You just pull on my parking lot. And within three minutes, I'll put that order in your trunk and you drive home. If you want it delivered to your home. We've got hundreds of 1000s of personal shoppers now through a company we bought code shipped that will bring it right to your home. And during the pandemic. They will just ring the doorbell, put it on your doorstep and back away. So it was all contact free. So we wanted to bring the best of both physical and digital together and it's really connected with the US consumer we serve.

David Novak 4:48 

It absolutely has and Brian you love to get out and your stores and talk to customers and in fact shop with customers and you know a while back you actually did that with my daughter Ashley and Wilbur Well, you knew she was a big target fan and you took her shopping with you and she walked around the store with you. Do you still do that Brian with other customers? Is that something that's part of your process?

Brian Cornell 5:10 

David, I try to get out all the time. And I learned from my own team, I can spend time walking stores with them walking in our distribution centers. And I always ask them, Hey, tell me what's working? And what can we do better? And what are you hearing from the guests you serve? I will tell you, I spent actually, a lot of time traveling throughout the pandemic, I was one of those people that still traveled every other week, we had had our own protocols around testing, and you'd go out for a couple of days. And then you'd come back and you'd waited another week, and hopefully test negative and go out again. And I learned a lot just listening to Americans were shopping our stores during the pandemic. And I heard him talk about how important safety was, and ease and convenience, and the fact that we had really high store standards, and it built trust. And I kept hearing this word, you know, I trust target, that they're doing the right things. They're making the right investments, they're investing in their team. So I feel safe shopping there. And I hear him talk about target being their happy place where there's these little moments of joy. And you get that when you're out there listening to shoppers and our team. And to me, it's so important to be out in different parts of the country and just listen and learn and understand what's working well, and what we can do better.

David Novak 6:26 

What was the most recent market? You visited Brian? And what did you learn? Can you tell us a story,

Brian Cornell 6:31 

I was in the New York market in New Jersey. Last week, I was actually in a store that we remodeled pre pandemic in Jersey City. And I watched it just come to life, we've added 10s of millions of dollars of growth. And we didn't recognize when we started the remodel, just how that city was starting to change. And people who had left New York, and are now on the other side of the Hudson, but lots of new housing new families. And we're kind of a social gathering spot where people come to shop, but they enjoy being out. They enjoy that social experience. David, you know this all too well. But we look at you know, different cohorts of consumers, you know, this Gen Z consumer, they like shopping physical stores, it's kind of a social component for them. They certainly know how to use all a digital technology. But I keep hearing, it's this Gen Z consumer that's come out of the pandemic, and they can't wait to get out physically out in stores, they like to walk up and down the island, see what's new. So I just kept hearing that this last week that way is this younger cohort of shoppers, it's these younger consumers that are in our stores on a regular basis, and walking the aisles and looking for what's new and exciting.

David Novak 7:47 

You know, Brian, you and I have been friends for a long time. And I remember talking to you when you took over target as CEO in 2014. And I remember you were in an incredibly tough turnaround situation, the business was in the tank, and you had to bring it back in. And you certainly have take us back and just kind of define the reality you faced in 2014.

Brian Cornell 8:11 

So David, I joined just following the major data breach that took place at Target. So I realized that we had some challenges to restore trust, we had also launched the business in Canada back then, and open up 133 stores and built distribution centers and hired lots of team members. But when we enter the Canadian market, we just probably didn't understand how competitive it was, we didn't really understand the consumer and how different they were across all of Canada. And, you know, had a challenge with rebuilding trust in the US, and then a bit of a failing business in Canada. I remember you and I talking about this, when we were just starting to kind of look at Target and where we would go from here, I was trying to convince you to come to one of our meetings. And I recognized that the best thing we could do was exit the Canadian market and put all of our efforts on the US. When I joined back in the summer of 2014. I had no idea that within six months, I'd be recommending to the board that we exit Canada and double down on the US. But sitting here today. I know that was the best decision we ever made. Because we put all of our efforts, all of our capital, all of our resources and all of our focus on restoring vitality to the US business. We wouldn't be $106 billion growing retailer, had we still been struggling in Canada. Sometimes as you and I both know, you've got to make the tough decision. But long term, it's going to be the right thing for your brand, your team, your shareholders, and that's what happened at Target.

David Novak 9:48 

Focus is such an important thing for all leaders. What advice can you give on how to really decide what you need to focus on? You know, you obviously had a problem there in Canada, but you've You've had a number of different big time jobs, you know, and bringing focus to a business is something that you're known for. What's your trick of the trade? If you have one?

Brian Cornell 10:09 

It's a great question, because we're going through that process right now, as we plan for 2023. I've learned less is always more that when you're really focused on three or four big initiatives that you've validated with consumers, you've tested in the market or right for your brand, you know, are going to connect and provide pathways for growth, you got to be really focused, I always try to make sure when we talk about strategy, it looks great on a page, and it looks great in a boardroom. But are you investing in capabilities? Are you investing in the resource and the talent you need? David, I would tell you coming out of the last few years, the pandemic, the one thing that I've learned that just stands out, when I think about priorities, is I put a big focus on the importance of culture, and making sure that the things we're doing are consistent with the culture of the company. And then I can get the team to rally around it. So this morning, we talked a lot about strategy and priorities. I talked a lot about investment in our team. But every day this week, we'll talk about the importance of culture. When I look at those priorities, I want to make sure they're consistent with a company purpose, or culture. And I've got four or five big things that everybody says, All right, we're going to line up around it, we're going to make sure we resource it, and we're going to go on execute.

David Novak 11:29 

You know, I want to take you back to 2017. Because this is another time I remember talking to you. And you made a huge announcement at your annual investor conference. And I'm sure you still remember this because I was very impactful to you hit that time. Talk about what you announced your investors in 2017. And the impact it had on you personally.

Brian Cornell 11:50 

So David, I can take you back to that very moment in February of 2017. And I was in New York, we're getting ready for our annual investor conference. And we sent out a press release in advance of the conference. And it said, target is going to invest over a billion dollars in the next couple of years to remodel stores. To build new stores. We said we're going to invest a billion dollars of operating income in wages and training and development. And I'll always remember watching CNBC that morning. And Becky quick, who I think you and I both know pretty well is reading the press release. And she pauses and says there must be a typo. In today's environment, no one is going to invest billions of dollars in physical stores. People were closing stores back there. I'm talking about opening up new stores, and remodeling my existing stores and investing in my team's wages and benefits. So I'm seeing the market reaction, David, I'm getting ready to walk across the street and present to investors. And I know what the reaction is, our stocks in decline. People are shaking their heads and wondering if we're making the right decision. But it was one of those moments where you had to turn the volume down. And I knew we had been testing things we had been validating things. We've been talking to consumers, I knew it was the right thing long term for the brand. But those are moments in our careers that we'll never forget. I finished up by conference, I did an interview with the end of it, David. And the last question was, Brian, how long do you think you'll last in your job? So those are tough days, you and I have both been there when people are shaking their heads and saying, Boy, they are not doing the right thing.

David Novak 13:39 

I always love those guys that asked me that question. You know, it's interesting, you know, it was an $8 billion investment that you made in the business. But you had already made a number of tests that showed you that spending that $8 billion dollars in the way you were going to spend it was going to pay off, you know, so you you kind of started small so that you could go big, is this something typical that you do as you lead your business, back to

Brian Cornell 14:05 

what we learned from Canada, and exiting that business. Sometimes he's got to slow down before he can go fast testing and learning in David, we started by remodeling 25 stores was our pilot lab, we opened up a couple of new small format stores just to understand how people were going to respond. You know, we looked at some new digital capabilities, and tested them out really carefully first with our own team before we let consumers tested. So we were testing these things kind of behind the wall for a while and knew boy, the reaction was really positive. But now it's time to go live and go big. I knew there are going to be some question marks. I didn't expect a round of applause but we knew that the consumer enjoyed it our guests was a doozy and stick about it I knew was the right thing for our team and our brand. And we just had the confidence the management team to say we're gonna go in a different direction. Others were closing stores back then and trying to say there were had a success. And we said, the only way for us to grow and modernize the business is to invest in the future, which we did.

David Novak 15:07 

Brian, if you could go back knowing what you know today, what advice would you give to yourself on how to handle that decision? And the way how you communicate it? Or are you totally happy with the way how you communicate it?

Brian Cornell 15:19 

Well, I think there's always Lessons Learned David. And I think, you know, for us, and for me, personally, making sure you're spending enough time building alignment across the entire team. I will tell you, when I came back from New York, we gathered, you know, 1000s of people here in Minneapolis, and I had some people on the bus, I had others that were, they were probably just scared. They're reading a headline saying targets placed in this big bet that was the headline, the $8 billion bet. And we were going in a different direction. So I could have probably spent more time making sure I socialize this internally, if people understand the whys and the conviction we had behind it. But I had to come back and make sure I brought everybody together and said, Let's hold hands and explain why we did it. What we had heard why we were so confident. So I could have done a better job before a big bold announcement, making sure I didn't just enlist a couple of 100 people, but in our case, get 1000s of them on the bus, feeling confident about the future?

David Novak 16:20 

Well, it's obviously worked, your stock is compounded again, and again. It's just done fantastically well, you doubled your stock in 2019. And But speaking of stock price, she talked about that investor conference, the market didn't react positively. How do you look at the stock price as a CEO? And how do you look at it versus competition? And how does it figure into your personal scorecard?

Brian Cornell 16:45 

It's hard to ignore, because it's out there every day people are looking at it. When you're having a board meeting, they're looking at total shareholder return. It is part of your scorecard. But I think at times, you've got to step back and say, All right, I can't react to any single day. There's so much volatility in the market. We both know that sometimes the restaurant sector is in favor, sometimes the retail sector is in favor. Sometimes people say it's all about technology, I think you've got to balance short term with long term. And you've got to have a conviction that the things you're doing your investments, your strategy, it's going to benefit shareholders over the long term. And you can't overreact to anyone day, anyone weak changes in the environment. But it's hard some days when somebody is you know, sending you the note saying, geez, what happened to the stock price this week? And why did you lose two or three points. But you've got to have that focus on the longer term, to make sure over time you're making the right investments, and right decisions for your brand and your business.

David Novak 17:50 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Brian Cornell in just a moment. If you want to learn from another CEO, who was always at the top of his game, listen to my conversation with Larry mirlo, the former CEO of CVS Health, just like Brian, Larry understands the power of getting his team on the same page. And it all starts with a simple, compelling vision. So

Larry Merlo 18:14 

we took a very small group of our colleagues, and they came back and said, Larry, we need a purpose. And that purpose is one sense, our purpose as a company is helping people on their path to better health. It's simple. You know, it's understood by everyone and David, I knew that we hit the mark. And people have internalized that in very meaningful ways.

David Novak 18:37 

If you want to align your team, then you need to listen to my conversation with Larry episode 12 here on how leaders lead.

Tell us a little bit about your journey. How'd you grow up? Tell me about you know what it was like when you were a kid.

Brian Cornell 18:55 

If I go back in time, it's pretty amazing to me to think that I somehow ended up in this amazing role. Now running 100 year old iconic American brand like Target. I grew up in a really humble environment. I lost my dad when I was young, my mom had a series of illnesses. And I had to grow up the hard way. And I've worked for as many years as I can imagine, from being just a little kid mowing lawns and shoveling snow and washing trucks at Tropicana DC. So if you look back in time, when I was a kid, you would have said, No, there's no chance this person ends up doing what I'm doing. But in a country like ours, where you have opportunities, I was able to take advantage of it. And I learned really early in life that for me, David, there were only three ways when I was a kid that I could put my economic circumstances aside and just move forward. And I found that it was in school, because when the test is handed out, nobody cared who my dad was or how much money I had in sports on the plot. Playing Field where the playing field was level. And at work, where once you showed up, it was all about performance and execution and doing the things that were put in front of you. So I learned pretty early, that for me was the level playing field, in school in sports. When I worked, and I embraced that early, I didn't feel sorry for myself, I said, I'm gonna perform Excel, take advantage of opportunities. And somehow, you know, it all worked out. But it wasn't some magical path. I didn't grow up in a CEOs household, I had worked for literally everything I had five part time job, so I had money for cleats, and baseball, and but it all worked out. Because, you know, I found what worked for me. And I was really fortunate to have great mentors, and leaders and people that just cared. You

David Novak 20:51 

mentioned, school was really important to you when you're growing up. And I know you went to UCLA, I also noticed that after graduating 10 years later, you went back to the executive School of Management at Andersen, what made you go back to school after you were already on your way in your career,

Brian Cornell 21:07 

even I realized I wanted to get better. I wanted a chance to continue to learn, interact with others who were in an executive program that usually conducted Anderson. And I learned as much in the classroom as I did from the people that were in the class with me. And I leverage their critical experiences, I was able to learn through some of the things that they had done at CVS or IBM are other great companies. And it allowed me to continue to make sure that I was developing and growing and learning. How do you keep that

David Novak 21:37 

going today? I mean, you know, what do you do to stay on top of your game,

Brian Cornell 21:41 

I've really focused on being a lifelong learner. And I think it's so important to make sure in a job like ours, when you were leading Yum, so successfully for so many years, or a company like target that has such an important relationship with American consumers. You got to wake up every day understanding consumer trends, what are consumers interested in? How are they living their lives where they spend their money, I spent a lot of time and I always have whether it was here at PepsiCo, understanding the customer and working with the case of target. It's, you know, the target guests, I need to really make sure I understand as much about them as possible. I spent a lot of time and I always have trying to understand my competition, I think to be successful in jobs like ours, you didn't know as much about your competition, as you do your own business. And I've learned that you've got to be able to manage cost effectively. And you've got to build great teams. And while the consumer parts important, and the customer parts important, and competition is important. And certainly, you've got to manage costs effectively. I've always found out it always comes down to people.

David Novak 22:46 

What's your process that you use for going into a store? What's your goal when you go into the store? And how do you want to leave the people that you meet?

Brian Cornell 22:54 

One, I almost always try to arrive unannounced. I want to go in I want to see things the way our shopper does the way the basic consumer does. I don't want people to know I'm coming in advance. And one of the great parts of that is there's nothing better than catching people doing all the right things when you walk in, and they're not spending days and weeks preparing for it. But they're just doing their job. They're providing great leadership. They're setting up great standards, and walk in and understand what they're doing. Where I can help. Where are their pain points? What are elements that are working for them? Where do they have challenges, but I always try to make sure I start by how can I help? You know, because I'm there to make sure I support them. I've found once you establish that dialogue, people relax, they realize that you're there sincerely on behalf of the company to help them. That opens up great dialogue. They're more comfortable telling me you know, Brian, this item over here, it's doing great. No packaging presentation, the pricing guests, shopper, they love it over here, can we have a problem? size isn't right, the price isn't right, somebody's not satisfied with the presentation, I need some help. So once I can open up the dialog and make them realize I'm there to serve them, they open up, they're more comfortable. And people can really be themselves.

David Novak 24:19 

Well, that's kind of like that old saying nobody will care about you unless you show that you care about them. And by doing that they trust you enough to really give you the straight skinny versus giving you the company line.

Brian Cornell 24:30 

Well, and I try to make sure they trust me enough that they know they can deliver good news and bad news. And they're comfortable either way.

David Novak 24:39 

How do you view yourself as a leader and what do you what do you think is your approach to leadership?

Brian Cornell 24:44 

Now when I was in school at UCLA, I kind of went back and forth about what did I want to do? For a long time I thought I wanted to be a teacher and a coach. When I stopped playing football in college. I coached high school football and I coached baseball and I love Working with kids, I love being out on the field. And in some ways, I feel like I'm still a coach. And I get to develop talent and design the plays and work with the team and get somebody ready to come off the bench and jump in when we need them. And I want to be a lifelong coach. And I've always recognized, you can have a great game plan, a beautiful strategy, it always looks good in a boardroom or on the sideline. But it's always the people that have to go out there and embrace it. I've always believed that, for me, the best things have happened in businesses that I've been involved in, when the pronouns change. Let me explain what that means. When I hear somebody say, David said, or Brian said, we need to do this, I usually just shake my head and say, you know, this is not going to work out well, because they don't own it. They don't believe it, they're doing it because they think it's important to you or to me, but when I hear that pronoun flip, and it's, here's what we're gonna do. And here's what we believe in. And here's our strategy. And here's our plan. magical things happen. Because people become accountable, they feel bested, they feel like they're owners, and they're empowered. So I always look for that pronoun to flip.

David Novak 26:13 

I love that that is such a great phrase, the pronoun flip going from me to we, that's fantastic. In businesses

Brian Cornell 26:19 

like ours, it makes a huge difference. And when people feel like a first their voice has been heard, you want to hear their point of view. And it's our plan. It's not my plan. All of a sudden, great results start to materialize.

David Novak 26:34 

I was looking at your career. And you've you've been at some amazing jobs. EVP of Safeway, CEO of Michaels, CEO Sam's Club, CEO of Pepsi America's, you know, what made you shift gears? What was it that made you say, hey, I want to do something different.

Brian Cornell 26:51 

It actually goes back David to kind of the early 2000 period. And I had just come back from Europe with PepsiCo, I was in a great role in the US. And my phone kept ringing from one of the search companies saying it, Brian, there's this unique opportunity. It's in retail, it's a company that actually is pretty troubled, might be down on their luck a little bit. But they're looking for somebody to come in, re energize the strategy, rethink the business plan, build brands, and the first three times they called, my answer was always the same, hey, I love what I'm doing. I'm not interested, and then hang up the phone. And after the third call my wife looked at me is that, you know, you keep telling them that but every time you say no, I see kind of this look in your eyes that you're missing a big opportunity. And the reason I was so attracted and ultimately moved from consumer packaged goods to retail, is I wanted to see if I could apply everything I had learned from a marketing standpoint, from a leadership standpoint, from a team building standpoint, in a new environment, and challenge myself. And it was uncomfortable. And one of the first things I learned is I had to get really comfortable saying, I don't know, because I hadn't done it before. I was so comfortable. I knew the consumer packaged goods world I knew PepsiCo, I knew beverages and snacks. It was in my blood. All of a sudden, I had to sit there and say, You know what? Here's some things I understand. But every once in a while, I get to be comfortable telling the team that's reporting to me. No, I need some help here. Haven't done this before. Can you help me? And one, it humbled me. But I think it also made me more authentic. And people rallied around the fact that I didn't have all the answers, and I wanted them the part of the solution.

David Novak 28:41 

That takes a lot of security, Brian, you know, I remember coming up my career, I was trying to demonstrate to people that I knew what was going on. And, you know, I didn't really wasn't that open about talking what I didn't know. And you know, I got more and more comfortable with that. And I agree with the power of that. But was there a point in your career where you hit that pivot point where all of a sudden you could be vulnerable like that?

Brian Cornell 29:03 

I think it hit me, David, actually back in 1999. And PepsiCo sent me to run a business unit in Europe. I packed my family up, but we moved to Brussels, Belgium, and I'm running all these different countries and markets, different languages, different cultures, different competitors. And I realized pretty quickly, I didn't have all the answers. Some things look the same. But when people sounded different, there were competitors I'd never heard of. There were different cultural issues that I didn't quite understand. So I had to ask a lot of questions. And I think at that point in my career, I learned the importance of making fewer statements and asking more questions. And I realized that one, it may be a better leader, first show that I did care. And I asked lots of questions and I listened intently, and then I learned but I really tried to make Sure, I asked three times as many questions as I made statements. And I had to adjust to an environment where the languages were different. The cultures were different, the teams were different. And the business model, while it looked the same on paper, it was different country by country. So I started to really put a premium on asking questions, being a great listener, and making sure my statements, yeah, they make it from time to time. But I wanted to measure the number of things that I said,

David Novak 30:29 

Do you have any daily rituals or habits that you use to get yourself fired up? You're a very positive energetic person, you can't be this way all the time. What do you do? How do you get yourself pumped up to go to work?

Brian Cornell 30:40 

I got involved with a program called the corporate athlete, it's a program out of Orlando, they call it the Human Performance Institute. And they started out training and working with professional athletes, people who were competing at the highest level. And they transition this program over for executives like you and I, to say, Alright, how do you manage your energy? How do you train like you're an athlete, and transfer some of that learning from tennis and golf and football and baseball into the corporate environment? And it taught me a lot about First Energy Management. How do you make sure that you're at your best when you have to be at your best, and what's the role of nutrition and rest and exercise in making yourself a better executive? So I kind of rewired myself, I started recognize, wave, I'm speaking in front of a big crowd, if I've got a really big board meeting, if I've got an important decision to make, I better get some sleep the night before, just like you would if you're playing in the US Open, or you're playing in the Super Bowl, Saturday night before the game, I'm going to get a good meal, I'm going to rest I'm going to show up at my very best. And for me, I also recognize the importance of exercise. And whether it's 20 minutes in between meetings, or the end of the day before I gotta go off to a dinner function, getting on the treadmill, doing something to manage my stress, Bill back my energy. But I've tried to think about those principles every day. And I no longer challenge my teams to kind of show that false bravado. When you and I are growing up, go back, you know, back in the day, somebody would say, oh, you know, I was working at two o'clock in the morning. And here I am at seven o'clock and I'm ready to go and do you need something eat? No, coffee will be fine. You know, I'm gonna go to work. And you realize you're asking somebody six hours later, a really important question, get an opinion, well, they're fatigued, they're exhausted, they haven't eaten, and you can't expect them to deliver their best. So I really tried to balance the importance of my energy, and trying to make sure I never have a bad day. But to do that, I've got to get the right amount of sleep, eat well exercise and try to bring my best to work every day.

David Novak 32:57 

Well, that's an absolutely great advice. And you know, the other thing I know about you, Brian, is you're a very devoted family, man, you got a great family, great partner, and you're a CEO, and you have all these time demands, and people like me want to interview you. How do you manage that all and put your family in the right priority?

Brian Cornell 33:15 

Well, David, it's actually it's taken some time, I think there's some tough lessons learned for all of us along the way. And I recognize just how important that balance is that you have to be able to do both. And you can't have one without the other. And I think for most of us, the importance of our family, and I know your daughter and the relationship you have with her, the relationship you have with your wife, that's part of who you are. And you got to be able to find a way to balance your passion for work with the commitment you have your family. And when they both come together. Again, I think that's where, you know, people like you and I find a way to excel. What's your

David Novak 33:55 

view, Brian of recognition? You know, a lot of people think recognition is something you should do, obviously, but they don't think she'd do it very often. You got to be careful with it. Because people might take their foot off the accelerator, what's your view on recognition? And how often you should give it as a leader?

Brian Cornell 34:12 

David, I don't think you can give it enough. I think it's so important. I think people want to hear that first. You care, that you recognize their contribution, that you're giving them feedback back to bring energy to the organization and commitment and getting people to feel ownership when you recognize their performance and their contribution and what they bring. And you just pause to say thank you. It makes such a big difference. Now I talked about working in living in the US and Asia and Europe. Its worldwide. People want to be recognized. And it doesn't always have to be the big giant trophy. No little notes, little thank yous. It goes a long way thanking somebody for their country. Have you shown to a program or their contribution to a meeting, or the fact that they picked up one of their teammates, when somebody had an issue, somebody had a run off, take care of one of their kids, they stepped up, say, hey, I'll do it. And you recognize that it makes a world of difference?

David Novak 35:16 

Absolutely. And you know, when you think about your company's future, obviously, you're gonna need more and more leaders like yourself, how do you focus on leadership development is what do you personally do to make sure that you're developing the next generation of leaders in your company,

Brian Cornell 35:32 

I would say at least a third of my time, is on the people. Now working with my teams, working on leaders thinking about that next generation, we've been spending a lot of time saying, Alright, how do we identify the future executive leaders of target, that five years from now 10 years from now are going to be sitting around that table, and I see them every day, I know who those candidates are? How do we over commit to them, give them the time, share critical experiences, make sure we're elevating their full potential, but you've got to commit the time, you got to be a great coach and teacher, you got to listen, you got to be able to share what you've learned. You've got to also be willing to say, here's all the mistakes I've made. And I want you to learn from what's worked for me. But also, I want to make sure I share with you, here's all the things I've done wrong. And I got a long list of all the mistakes I've made,

David Novak 36:26 

what would it be at the top of that list? Would you look back at your career,

Brian Cornell 36:29 

probably, in some ways, they've been moving too fast on certain issues, not asking enough questions, not getting full buy in, running ahead of the team. And watching people say, that's a great app, Brian loves this, let them go, he'll figure it out. You've got to bring people with you. When I was a little younger, and I was just focused on performance and execution and making sure you know, I got the eighth grade, I might have run ahead of the team. And I left them behind. I now recognize you got to bring people with you, you got to set a great agenda. But if you're not bringing the team with you, flipping that pronoun, you can only do so much on your own.

David Novak 37:08 

Brian, I saw a Gallup survey, were on average 70% of workers in our country today are not engaged. Why do you think that is,

Brian Cornell 37:18 

they probably don't feel ownership, they don't feel a connection with the company, there may not feel a connection to the purpose of the organization, they don't feel appreciated. If you're not feeling appreciated, and you don't feel an attachment to the organization's purpose, and you don't buy into the direction. It just becomes a routine for you. And your energy dissipates. You're not fully engaged, and ultimately, you walk out. But I think leadership plays such an important part in filling that engagement void. Great leaders build engagement. They provide a platform for people ask questions, to fill in the blanks, so that you can build that bond with the team, where you obviously

David Novak 38:03 

project a lot of confidence and your people in the future. How important is that for a leader to project confidence?

Brian Cornell 38:10 

I think when you're in roles like ours, you don't get a chance to have a bad day. No people watch us so carefully, to see our energy level, our confidence, our commitment, our engagement. I think it's critically important, because as tough as it is, and I'm still learning to get used to it after all these years, we don't get days off. Can't say you don't X Wednesday, I'm gonna have a bad day on Wednesday. Don't ignore it. People depend on us, you know, and we have to project confidence. Because if we're not confident, they're not going to be confidence.

David Novak 38:49 

I believe that to be a great leader, you got to have a plan to help you develop. In fact, I think this is so important that I've developed a free weekly development plan that you can get delivered to your inbox each week. Every weekly plan focuses on a different leadership topic and gives you actionable steps to develop that skill on a practical level. Topics like team building, communication, and navigating conflict. Think about this plan as your leadership development program. Only. It's no fluff, practical skills that will help you unite your team around achieving your goals. You can get free access at how leaders lead.com/plan That's how leaders lead.com/plan Sign up today.

You know, with all the success you've had Brian, CNN named you the CEO of the Year, and 2019 and you're clearly one of the most admired leaders in the world. And I know you're gonna say it's the team, you always say it's the team. But if I take that factor away, what would you say it's been the key to your success

Brian Cornell 40:01 

there. As I sit here today, I am going to come back to please, for my target success, this focus on building a great culture. And when we talk about culture at Target, we talk about a culture that starts with care. It starts with growth. And it starts with winning together. And I think this focus on a caring culture, caring for the guests we serve for each other for our communities and the role we play in society. It's made a huge difference in how we operate the business each and every day. This focus on growth and not just top line growth, but investing in the growth of our team and talent development and creating rewarding careers. And the magical unlock is this winning together, and a recognition that we're successful when every part of the organization comes together as one. And we've got common goals and common priorities, and we align around it. But David, I've learned coming out of the last few years, that again, strategy is important, and you've got to have great capabilities. But culture makes such a difference. And you figure that out long before I did, but will culture of care and winning together. That's what ties our company together. And I think our success and the recognition that I've received personally, it's all grounded in this culture, we've created a target that allows us to weather the storm during tough days and celebrate together when we're winning. But we never lose focus on the importance of care and growth and winning together.

David Novak 41:38 

What's the one characteristic if you were going to pick one that you're looking for when you hire a leader? What do you think is the absolute essential to make a leader successful?

Brian Cornell 41:49 

There's probably a couple things David, I look for. I do look for humility. I think for great leaders and today's environment, never forgetting where you came from. remaining humble and approachable is so important. And I combine humility with the importance of resilience. I think we all know how challenging the environment is that we're working in today. And it's this combination of leaders that have great humility and approachability. They're resilient, they can handle the good times and the challenging times. They wake up every day, energized and passionate about what they do. When you combine passion and humility and resilience. I think you'll see some fabulous leaders.

David Novak 42:33 

You know, Brian, you talked about how this company did so well, during COVID? How do you think COVID has changed business in the way how you do business forever?

Brian Cornell 42:45 

If you would have asked me in 2017 or 2018, you know, could we have connected as an organization could we have led a big company, when you're not physically together every day, I would have said no chance. But I think we've recognized how flexible we can be and how important agility is and adaptability. And I think we've learned to embrace technology, but recognize that human interaction, it's the great multiplier, and I love having my teams together. But I also recognize now, people are looking for more flexibility. And this hybrid working and leadership environment is probably here to stay. I had to learn over the last couple years how to lead in a hybrid environment, when I couldn't just walk down the hall and see all of my key leaders, I had to learn how to connect virtually and use Zoom differently. So I think it's going to change the way we lead the way we interact. And I think it's going to be this great balance. And it's going to be not an either or it'll be an end. It'll be physically being together. And using hybrid to provide more flexibility for our teams and leaders across the world.

David Novak 43:56 

You know, all leaders, we go through our ups and downs. And you know, earlier this year, target stock took a major hit because of the inventory management of the company. And this really resulted in the company after taking a lot of markdowns, which obviously, you know, cost you a lot of money and how did that affect you personally and you know, how did you muster up that gumption to keep getting after it, you know, after taking such a body blow? Well,

Brian Cornell 44:23 

David, we saw a pretty significant change in consumer buying habits. You know, after a couple of years of chasing inventory during the pandemic supply chains were running late. We had inventory that unfortunately arrived after the Christmas holiday. We had moved certain things forward and then all of a sudden, we just had too much inventory in areas that were red hot during the pandemic. Too many bicycles when we couldn't build them fast enough a year ago, too many TVs when people were putting TVs everywhere in their homes. And things just started to change and we said alright, we know we're not alone. There's a glut of inventory and retail up, we can deal with this over 3456 quarters, or we can face it head on, do the right thing for our brand. For the guests we serve and for our team, and put it behind us and get back to playing offense. And when we first made the announcement, we certainly surprise some people with the magnitude of it. But then week after week after week, our competitors started to make the same announcements. And all of a sudden, people were rewarding us for saying we saw it first, we dealt with it upfront, we're not going to let it linger and impact our store experience, impact the productivity our teams, so we took it head on. And there are no regrets. But those are tough moments when you make big bold decisions. But you know, it's the right thing for your brand. It was the right thing for the guests we serve. Absolutely for our team. And as I've traveled the country, David, since we made that announcement, I hear two words. Thank you. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for identifying we had a problem getting out in front of it, versus just kicking the can and let it linger on for 612 or 18 months. But we both know, those are not easy decisions. But when you know it's the right thing for the business both short and long term. You got to step up and face the music.

David Novak 46:17 

You know, Brian, this has been so much fun catching up with you. Now I want to have a little bit more with a lightning round of questions here. Are you ready for this?

Brian Cornell 46:24 

Absolutely.

David Novak 46:25 

Okay. What are three words others would use to describe you?

Brian Cornell 46:30 

I hoped David, they would say I'm incredibly grounded, approachable. And I hope they would say I'm just a good human being.

David Novak 46:40 

If you could be someone besides yourself for a day, who would it be? And why?

Brian Cornell 46:44 

Well, David, that's an easy one, I would go back and I'd be John wooden's assistant coach and get a chance to watch him up front and learn from him every day.

David Novak 46:54 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Brian Cornell 46:57 

I hate being late. I'm somebody who really believes being on time shows respect for the people that you're with. And the people you care about.

David Novak 47:06 

What's the last thing you bought from the Target dollar spot?

Brian Cornell 47:09 

Oh, gosh, you know, I've got four grandchildren. Now, David, so I can be in there all the time buying things. And the last thing was some supplies for back to school.

David Novak 47:21 

If you turned on the radio in your car, what would we hear? You'd probably

Brian Cornell 47:25 

hear CNBC playing right now. I'd be probably catching up on the business news. If not, then I'm on ESPN or the PGA Tour network.

David Novak 47:34 

What's something about you that few people would know? Well, it's something

Brian Cornell 47:38 

you know, but many others don't. is much as I love the game. I am just a horrible golfer.

David Novak 47:45 

That's not true. You're getting better every day. You know, Brian, the lightning round is over. I just have a few more questions here. You know, I used to run yum brands. And now David Gibbs, the CEO of yum brands doing a fantastic job for sure. And you're the non executive chairman for yum brands. So what have you learned? And in that role? It's kind of interesting. I don't think there are too many CEOs that are also non executive chairman. So, you know, what have you learned that's helped you in your business?

Brian Cornell 48:16 

You know, I think when you're interacting with a young team, that culture of appreciation is still something that is just so critically important to their success. Now, I've had the pleasure of getting to know you and working with you. You know, I was on the board with Greg creed, stepping into the CEO role. And I helped bring David Gibbs into that new role. And, you know, the common thread is this commitment to that cultural appreciation. And I think it's just what makes yum such unique company. So it's helped me appreciate how important culture is and how fundamental that is to the success of a company like Target. And certainly the amazing results. You and Greg and David achieved and have been achieving it yum.

David Novak 49:01 

You know, you and your wife, Martha, are very generous and you made a $10 million donation to invest in a facility that's focused on helping people with mental health challenges. That's just remarkable. I mean, tell us a story how you got involved in that.

Brian Cornell 49:19 

David, I'll start with Martha. We're gonna celebrate our 40th wedding anniversary. In a matter of days. Congratulations. She's been such an important part of my success, my career, my life. We've got two wonderful children, four grandkids. But I think we've recognized that so many of our friends family, so many of my team members at Target. They struggle with depression and anxiety. The number of stories I hear about young children who are 12 years old, 15 years old, 17 years old, struggling with eating disorders, the challenges that college Students are facing across the country today. And so many of them battling anxiety and depression challenges, the impact on older adults. And we said, No, this is an area that everyone knows someone who's facing some sort of mental health challenge. But unlike other illnesses, people don't like talking about it. And we said, Alright, if we step forward and develop this new facility, which we hope is going to be state of the art, how do we remove the stigma, and make sure people recognize this is something that we have to address as a country, we've got to make sure we're more public and open about it. So we're looking to create a senator that's going to have state of the art facilities to help adolescents, adults, older adults, people with acute care, and great outpatient therapy, to really make sure we spotlight the importance of investing in a space that I think has been overlooked far too often.

David Novak 50:56 

Oh, that's fantastic. And really appreciate you stepping up and doing that. And I want to wrap this up with one final question here. What's one piece of advice you would give to aspiring leaders?

Brian Cornell 51:09 

I think we've all got to be lifelong learners. And I always talk about the importance of understanding what's happening with consumers, the customers you serve, what's happening with your competition, and importantly, what's happening with the culture of your teams. So I think focusing on those sees consumers and customers competition, and your own company culture, it's so important, and it sounds fundamental. But I think at times, you know, we stop looking out the window, and watching the changes around us. And then we take our customers for granted, we lose track of some of the things our competitors are doing. And we underestimate the importance of culture. And I think for future leaders, those elements are going to continue to be critically important as we build companies and drive successful businesses going forward.

David Novak 51:58 

Brian, I have to congratulate you on the fact that the board just extended your contract beyond 65. And so you'll be the first target CEO to move beyond that age limit, which is a great testimony to your leadership and the fact that you're getting the results the right way. And I want to also thank you for being on the show and for being such a good friend,

Brian Cornell 52:24 

David, thank you. It's great to see you. I hope to see you in person soon. Take care now.

David Novak 52:37 

Don't you just love how upbeat and energetic Brian is he's an absolute battery pack of energy. And I know his team at Target draws on that energy every day. But that kind of energy doesn't just happen. Brian intentionally manages it, just like a pro athlete would, because he knows he needs to take care of himself if he's going to perform at the highest level at work. So often, leaders think I'm so busy, I don't have time to go out and exercise. I don't have time to prepare something healthy to eat. I've got work to do. But those simple acts of self care, don't take away from our work, they fuel it, we can't neglect our bodies and then expect to be at our best. This week, I want to challenge you to manage your energy. Think about one aspect of taking care of yourself that you tend to put off. Now schedule it into your calendar three times this week, treat it the same way you treat an important meeting. Remind yourself that the time you spend doing it isn't taking away from your work. It's optimizing your performance. It's going to give you energy and your team will feel it too. Positive Energy lifts you up. Negative energy brings you down. It's amazing what can happen when you manage your energy and start treating yourself like the high performing corporate athlete. You are like the entrepreneur, you are like the business leader you are. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders manage their energy for peak performance. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Jeff Yang, founding partner and Managing Director of Redpoint Ventures and one of the best entrepreneurs you can ever listen to.

Geoff Yang 54:20 

Nobody needs to start a company. A lot of people right now feel like oh, I've got to start my company or they think it's really cool to start a company. The best entrepreneurs have an idea and they're compelled to start it because they're like, if I don't do it, nobody else will.

David Novak 54:34 

So be sure to come back next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be