David Novak 0:03 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Don Sweeney, the former president and CEO of the National Restaurant Association. Now, Steve Jobs, the late CEO of Apple, used to say excellence is the price of admission. What he meant by that was that excellence was standard operating procedure at Apple. It's what he expected. It's what was expected by everybody in the company. In an environment like this colleagues push each other to make things better, they push the boundaries of what's possible. And if someone feels like a project or an idea can be better. They speak up. Don Sweeney, and the great leaders I know, do this very same thing. They speak up when something can be better, they don't accept the status quo, but instead have the courage to push to make everything the best it can be. This, my friends, is what it looks like to strive for excellence. And doing things with excellence is the mark of a great leader. And it's the mark of a great company. So let's not wait any longer. Here's my conversation with my good friend Han soon to be yours, Don Sweeney.

Dan, I always like to start out at the beginning. Can you tell us about your upbringing.

Dawn Sweeney 1:40 

So I started my career in food service working on a roadside stand that my grandfather had a we had a family farm and grew vegetables on 40 acres that I picked those vegetables, and I sold them at this roadside stand literally for the age of 456 Onward, and learned a whole lot very early on about customer service, dealing with wonderful people dealing with challenging people at a very young age, and frankly, working really hard both in the fields. And at the roadside stand. I really developed a strong work ethic. I wasn't compensated for my efforts financially at that stage. But I was compensated with a sense of accomplishment, working alongside my grandfather and my father, my mother, my brother, but I really took it very seriously and kind of challenged myself in that same way that all of us tried to do to be better the next day than I was the prior day pick more strawberries, pick more beans do more selling of the corn on the cob. I just I really got excited about being my own personal best. And that really laid I think a foundation, I would didn't feel competitive with anyone else. But I was very competitive with myself,

David Novak 2:47 

did you have a mentor, besides your parents that really helped shape some of your early thoughts on leadership

Dawn Sweeney 2:53 

at that young age, I really was my family that I that I really looked up to and still do actually, in so many ways. But as I moved from kind of the family farm into my first paid job, I worked at a grocery store where I bagged groceries and then got promoted to cashier long before the scan. And it was back when you cashiered when you actually put the price in and hit the you know, enter the enter key. And then worked my way up to being an office manager for the night shift while I was still in high school. And in that environment, I really learned a lot just by watching people around me who were successful. And everybody at most of the stages of my high school career, you know, had a more important job than I did at any point along the way. So I really looked up to the people who were, you know, the nightshift manager or the office manager of the day shift or the head cashier or the, you know, customer service manager and I just watched them and that's how so much of I think how I have grown as a leader is just watching people around me emulating the characteristics that I would like to have more of. And then also, frankly, watching leadership behaviors that I didn't appreciate, as a person who was reporting in at that point in my career to various different levels. And knowing that if I ever did have the chance to lead in a really significant way, these are qualities that I didn't want to emulate. So I probably have learned as much from making sure I didn't gather certain kinds of behaviors as I have from watching folks like you and others who emulate the qualities that I admire so much.

David Novak 4:27 

Don, you know, what was your first job out of college and how did you determine what direction to take?

Dawn Sweeney 4:32 

My first job out of college was here in Washington DC where I still am almost 40 years later, I came out of college on a Saturday I went to a small liberal arts school in Maine Colby College. I graduated on a Saturday I started my job on the Monday with $300 in my pocket and four outfits, which got me through Thursday but Friday was a Friday was a push I didn't know quite what to do. I had to recycle something from the Monday collection. But I had the opportunity I had two different job offers when I came right out of college I got my job offers during the spring break of my senior year when I came to DC and just kind of pounded the pavement looking for a job, didn't really have many connections or frankly, any connections. But at that time, you could just really walk around town and hand your resume out. I had a job offer on Capitol Hill to be what was called the legislative correspondent at the time, which was really doing constituent mail. It was before email, so just regular old male that was working for a member of Congress and that I had an opportunity to work for a trade association called the International dairy foods association that represents the processing part of the dairy industry. So Kraft Foods, Sargento, Haagen DAAS, companies like that, and at the end of the day, I chose the trade association job rather than working on Capitol Hill, which even surprised me, because my whole college work had been on Political Science and Government Affairs that I really thought I wanted to work in the midst of Congress in that environment. But I saw the trade association opportunity as maybe even a broader chance to make an impact on a whole industry. And I had no particular knowledge of the dairy industry necessarily, but I found that I learned quickly that I really could have a role even at that early stage of my career, and making a difference on how an entire industry is perceived and how it's able to be successful and advanced. And so I started very early as a lobbyist for the dairy industry. And I was saving up money to go to law school, which is what I thought I wanted to do at the time. And my then supervisor who is one of my great mentors in life, Linwood Tipton, who became the CEO of the organization during the tenure that I was there. He said to me, I really think you'd do much better in business school than law school. And if you will stay, he said, eight years, after you graduate from business school, we'll pay your way to business school. So that's even longer than military service, you know, we do have to give back and I said, that's great, because I didn't have wasn't making much money, and it was gonna take me a long time to save up the money to go to graduate school. So they actually underwrote my MBA, I went to school at night, while working full time, it took me about four, almost five years to get my MBA doing it that way that I stayed the eight years that he asked me to after that. And in that time, I had the opportunity, which was amazing at this young point in my career, with a brand new MBA to get involved in a campaign that ultimately turned into the milk mustache campaign that got milk. Yeah, tell me about

David Novak 7:24 

that. Because I that's one of my favorite campaigns of all time, tell me how the milk mustache campaign actually happened.

Dawn Sweeney 7:31 

It's a fascinating story. And it's one of those things that when I look back on it now, I can't believe I had the you could call it courage or maybe even audacity to take the position that I took on this because I didn't have, you know, particular deep experience or background in marketing or advertising or anything else. But we had a chance through a checkoff program that my then boss Linwood Tipton had gotten approved by USDA to have a massive amount of many millions of dollars to be able to launch a campaign to help the sales and consumption of milk among young women and the target audience at the time were women 16 to 24, because their consumption of milk at that time was dropping precipitously. And if that became a trend, you know, that played out through their lifetime, milk consumption overall, was going to drop precipitously, so we were trying to really arrest that decline and try to make drinking milk more cool, fashionable, fun, accepted among these young women 16 to 24, we hired at ad agency, bozell Jacobs in New York City. And they developed several different concepts that we had to bring back to a board of Milk Processors. And in this particular case, the board happened to be comprised of all men over the age of 50. And they were the ones that were going to make the decision about what the campaign was, it was going to speak to women 16 to 24. And they naturally chose a campaign that was different than the milk mustache, they just didn't think that was going to do it. They liked this other one. And I somehow found the, I'll say courage or Audacity or whatever you want to call it, to say, I have to say, I think I'm the only person in the room that's in this demographic or close to it, I might have been 25 at the time, not only the only person in that age group, but I was literally the only woman in the room. And I said, I honestly think you're wrong. I think this is the campaign that will speak to these young women more than this one that you're headed toward. And over time and a few hours of conversation. They eventually came around and said yes, we're going to do that what of that was obviously a very successful campaign to completely reverse the decline of consumption among young women and then had a lot of legs on it. We extended it to different audiences. It was a 25 year plus successful campaign that did a lot to advance the industry. But that was one of those moments where you're at the table or I may not even bet at the table. I may have been in the back row or the room for way I could remember but I remember thinking I'm in this room, really have something significant, I think to offer. I'm worried about the direction they're going. I think they're wrong. And I'm going to speak up and I'm really glad that I did

David Novak 10:00 

for you, that is clearly one of the greatest advertising campaigns in the history of marketing. So congratulations for having that courage of conviction. You know, Don, you've worked for three different associations since then I believe, and what made you change jobs? And what advice could you give to others on this front? You know, why should you change a job,

Dawn Sweeney 10:19 

I think today's generation is much more facile with that and willing and able to take those risks than let's just say my generation, I have had four different organizations, I've worked for over 40 years. But that's an average of, you know, changing jobs every 10 years, that's not the same kind of pace that I think change generation is changing jobs, sometimes every 10 months. For me, each time, I felt like the place that I was going to, had a bigger opportunity for impact or said a different way, the industry that I was moving into had a problem that I thought I could help solve, or in some cases, you know, multiple challenges. I'm very much motivated by making an impact and an impact not just on a community or an industry, but actually on society and an even bigger way. And so, in each case, when I went from the dairy foods industry to the electric utility industry, during the time of utility deregulation, I saw a huge opportunity to make a difference that I moved to AARP, which was an organization that was really trying to grow its membership and diversify its impact among lots of different people over the age of 50. And I really thought I could make a difference there. And then, most importantly, for me, once I found my real home here in the restaurant industry, this has been the culmination of a path that I've been on for a long time. But this is the industry, I absolutely adore the people in it, the work that we do, the difference we make in people's lives. And I think, for me, each time, it's been a question of how can I have more impact? And how can I help solve some of the really vexing issues that an industry or a society is facing?

David Novak 11:55 

I want to get onto some of the things that happened since you left the Dairy Association. But I do want to ask you about your mentor, your mentor basically convinced you to do the MBA, then you did the famous milk campaign? How did you muster up the courage to go to this guy and say you were going to actually leave the company?

Dawn Sweeney 12:13 

That's a great question that that if I look back on my own career, and say, you know, what were the hardest days I've ever had, it wasn't, you know, the day when everything went sideways, and some kind of thing blew up. In every case, it was when I had to go to my in that those cases, every case that my mentor and say I'm moving on, and even after, in the case of the dairy foods Association, I was there for 12 years. And it was the only job I had ever had, it was a hugely difficult thing to do, because you feel like you're leaving your family, you know, the people who have raised you and helped you and supported you. And in the case of that first time that I did it, and the two subsequent times I've done it since then, I've always been amazed at how supportive and I've tried to do this myself, when people come to me and say they're leaving as devastated and disappointed as I might be for myself and for the organization, I have to believe that it's the right thing for the person. And in this case, it was the right thing for me each time and my mentors in every case, have as much as I've worried about telling them when I finally get around to say at it, and they always to a person say we're sorry to see you go, but we're very happy to support your next success. And so I think that is the another mark of a great leader is someone who can look past what's in the benefit of their own personal interest in the interest of their own organization, and help someone succeed and ascend and rise when it's time for them to do that. And we all kind of feel in our gut when it's time, you know, when you feel like I really have maximize my impact here. And it's time for me to try a new challenge. And so I've been I've been very blessed and I've tried to do the same thing as a leader myself, I

David Novak 13:52 

will be back with the rest of my conversation with Don Sweeney in just a moment. Scott Mahoney is the Chairman and CEO of Peter Mylar, a premier clothing brand. In our conversation, we talked about what it looks like to go the distance for quality. It's not about margin, it's doing it right. Treating your customers, right, make your products great. And having integrity in your company and in your products. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Scott Mahoney episode 59 here on how leaders lead.

You mentioned before coming to the National Restaurant Association, you were the Group Director for membership for AARP. And I have to tell you, Don, I hated getting my AAR. So tell us how you went about making that brand more relevant.

Dawn Sweeney 14:47 

So this was in the early 2000s that I was there. And we were really struggling at the time with both the brand relevance of AARP which still had a real tenor of retired nature to it and we were trying to Make the organization much more relevant not just to the 65 plus population, but to the 50 to 65 year old who are eligible to join, but like you and I, and many others are reluctant to join, because we don't see ourselves as part of that demographic. And so we really had to remake the brand to make it relevant to people who are still working. And people who and frankly, way over 65 oftentimes are still working, but take there are as it relates to retired, kind of out of the nomenclature and really move to an organization that is devoted to supporting people as they enter that next stage in their life's journey. So whether it's reinventing yourself for a new kind of an occupation, or changing your kind of relentless lifestyle, to want to have more flexibility, there's just a lot of different things to do that don't really fit into the genre of retired. So we rebuilt the brand around that really built an enormous impact and quick resonance, actually, among the 50 to 64 year olds. And we spent a lot of effort looking at the diversity of our membership, because at the time, the organization was not representative of the population, it was much more white and much less diverse from a demographic, social, economic as well as racial perspective. And so we wanted to make sure that 2030 years later, the organization would continue to be relevant as the population continues to change in terms of its demographic makeup. So we made we made a lot of changes to the products and services that we offered, launched a product for health insurance, for example, for people 50 to 64, which is a huge issue for people who may want to step out of their normal day job but don't have health insurance. So it was really kind of a remake. And then I moved over and ran the for profit subsidiary of AARP, the business part of it for about seven years. And that's where we really kind of picked up on steroids and got a lot of strong member value products developed for the younger population, and that has sustained to this day,

David Novak 16:53 

you're known as a very innovative leader, and you had a lot of success with product innovation, ARP, you know, innovation today is almost like a buzzword, you know, why do you think it's so important for leaders to be innovative and forward thinking?

Dawn Sweeney 17:07 

So I think you're so right. And I think innovation, the definition of innovation has changed dramatically, just in the last five or six years in terms of the pace and the speed. And the, you know, to be innovative in the past was to come up with kind of a new bell or whistle on an already existing idea. And now you've got to completely remake a marketplace to be innovative, or to be able to qualify for that nomenclature, I guess. In every case, what I've tried to do is to look at the industry I'm serving, whether it's the 50 plus population in ARP, or whether it's the million restaurants in in the restaurant association, and say, How can we add value to their ability to be successful, fulfilled human beings, individuals, companies, etc. In the case of AARP, I would say the thing I'm the most proud of is what we did in the health insurance realm for people 50 to 64, because that was a product that just didn't exist, you couldn't get it. It wasn't affordable, it wasn't accessible. And it definitely was not crafted for that population.

David Novak 18:07 

The National Restaurant Association is the largest trade group in the US restaurant industry. And they recruited you to become the CEO. How has the job evolved over time?

Dawn Sweeney 18:18 

That's a great question, it has evolved dramatically, in part just because the industry has evolved so dramatically in that time. But in part, because, as you well know, when you have great success, the bar for success just keeps getting raised. And so as you deliver results, you have more resources to deliver more results. And the aperture gets bigger and bigger and wider in terms of the impact you can make. And so we have gone from an organization that represented about 40% of the industry to one that represents about 65% of the industry today, we represent all top 200 brands in the industry, which I'm really excited about, as well as many, many, many small restaurants that otherwise would not have kind of an advocate to advance their interests. We build partnerships with all 52 state and regional restaurant associations so we can deliver greater value to the large and small members. And I think those innovative moves allow us to have more resources to be more impactful. And then again, I think the bar for success just keeps getting raised, which I love. Tomorrow has to be better than yesterday. I love waking up every day and just saying, you know, how can I be better? How can we do more? How can we be more successful and just raising the bar kind of on ourselves is impactful.

David Novak 19:34 

You know, your jobs evolved over time, but how have you as a leader evolved over time? How are you today Don different than you were 10 years ago and and have you had some major shifts in what you've learned in leadership?

Dawn Sweeney 19:46 

Absolutely. As recently as yesterday, and as likely as tomorrow? I think almost every day I feel literally every day like I learned something that I want to incorporate in my new being that I'm going to try to beat him borrow. And sometimes those things are learned through difficulty and tragedy and loss and mistakes. And oftentimes, frankly, I think they are, you grab those things and you internalize them and you try to move forward. Oftentimes, they're learned through success and elation, and moments of joy and things where you see unexpected success that you didn't necessarily even anticipate. It's interesting.

David Novak 20:22 

I think you're all your frontline jobs you had as a kid, I'm sure it just has made you really have a great appreciation for the restaurant business.

Dawn Sweeney 20:29 

And when I came into this job, I had never worked in a restaurant. And I spent the first 18 months working in restaurants doing shifts all the time, every position in a restaurant, drive thru, fry, cook, prep, cook, expediter, you know, hostess, bartender, I did every position I could find in the restaurant over 18 months. And boy, I'd never worked so hard in my life, as I did at that boy talk about appreciation that changed everything in terms of my ability to feel like I could speak for people who are in this industry when you work those jobs. Boy, do you have a lot of respect for those folks,

David Novak 21:00 

you're known Don is a fierce, tireless advocate for the restaurant industry. Tell us about the biggest fight you've had to take on.

Dawn Sweeney 21:08 

I would say the most difficult fight is with the work that we did on menu labeling. In this started with a patchwork of regulations, and you'll recall this well, I know around the country, different cities and states that were putting into effect various menu labeling rules, saying that menus menu boards had to be labeled with in some cases, calorie, sodium, fat, cholesterol, all kinds of different things. And they were different regulations in each city and state so that a company such as your former company, or any very large company, that operates in multiple states would have to have different menu boards and menus. And you know, from literally, sometimes one city to the next, let alone one state to the next day, we had this kind of arising of these local and state level initiatives. And we felt as an industry, we had to respond. And we responded with a proposal that said, we will have this kind of menu labeling in all 50 states, it'll be a federal mandate. But we were asking as an industry for regulation, which was not our normal stance, we're normally we're opposed to, you know, regulatory action against our industry. And in this case, we were requesting it, we were saying this patchwork of state local is too difficult for our industry, we'd like to have a national standard. But at the same time, we were trying to exempt the smallest restaurant companies who had 20 or fewer locations under the same brand. And it was a really tense negotiation both within our own industry, which was actually harder in some ways than the work that we did on Capitol Hill to get the industry aligned around a singular model that everybody could live with. And then then to take that to Capitol Hill and get that passed into legislation, which we ultimately did. But that was incredibly difficult, both within the industry and on the hill to get the support, not just to get the support, but maybe even more difficult to keep it together. During the times when we were getting attacked from all kinds of different angles,

David Novak 23:03 

what would be the single biggest thing you think you did to keep it together to get it done

Dawn Sweeney 23:07 

communication, just really staying connected to our constituency, really being transparent and open about what our challenges were taking the intellectual leadership of the industry and bring it all to bear so that we weren't at the National Restaurant Association needed to figure everything out by ourselves, but really facilitating a process where the intellectual capital of the industry could be leveraged, and having them help convince each other as well as us helping to convince everybody was a big part of it.

David Novak 23:36 

You know, you were the first female CEO for the National Restaurant Association. And you're a tremendous role model for not only women, but men. But what advice would you give aspiring females who want to take on bigger and bigger leadership roles,

Dawn Sweeney 23:51 

I take that role and responsibility extremely seriously, because I have been inspired by so many men and women over the course of my career. And organizations like the women's food service forum that are devoted to advancing women leaders in our industry are really vital for developing the skills and competencies and the role models. Frankly, I think for women, to be successful in our industry, we still are not at parity in terms of the number of women that are able to ascend to those C suite levels in our industry have many of us are devoted to changing that there's a lot of work going on with the leadership of the women's food service forum to address that. But I would say broadly speaking, the advice that I would give and that I followed, frankly, my whole career is just as good for women, man or any of us, which is to show up, speak up and deliver your results. Deliver them if you deliver results, a lot of the other noise gets removed from the equation. I do think kind of my mantra has been for many years, work hard and be kind and I think those two things together really are impactful for both women and men. I think the work hard part, there's no substitute for that. Even today, I think there's an awful lot to be said for just getting in there and just working hard. I think the be kind part, the further up you ascend in an organization, you see more and more opportunity to utilize the footprint and the platform that you have to help other people. I try to do that in every way I can. And I think that in kind of a karmic way, comes back ultimately, to help each of us when we help others.

David Novak 25:27 

Men sometimes can be uncomfortable when they're giving women feedback. What advice can you give men that will help them be more effective in that area?

Dawn Sweeney 25:37 

That's a great question. Because women cannot be successful without the help and support and mentorship of men in our country, in our economy, and our business, men still have so many of those leadership roles. And it's just vital. I think that that feedback, be thoughtful and honest and complete and transparent, and delivered in a way that it can be heard. And I think sometimes men and women in leadership roles don't always take, I think we have to take a risk on each other, we have to say, you know, certain individual may have 80% of the competencies that we think we need for our role, maybe they don't have 100%. But in the case of women, they may have checked eight of 10 of the boxes, or six of 10 of the boxes, how do we identify those skill gaps, give the feedback that's needed. Oftentimes, it's financial acumen or things like that, that they just haven't been afforded an opportunity to have a role that would allow them to build those skills, how do we make an intense effort to put women in roles that give them that experience that fill those blanks and fill those voids so that they can be considered and the pipeline is stronger for women, I think building that pipeline is vital. And in terms of feedback, I think it's just honestly being honest and sincere and direct is really important.

David Novak 26:59 

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You had a distinguished career, and you recently retired from the National Restaurant Association, as their CEO at the end of 2019. How are you spending your time these days?

Dawn Sweeney 27:40 

Well, I use you as my inspiration. I continue to I probably did that for several decades, actually. But I'm doing the things I love, just like you are serving on several for profit and nonprofit boards, helping large associations in the Food and Ag and just broader Association space to be successful in growing their revenues. I'm doing some consulting work for a very large, publicly traded real estate firm, and just having a really, really good time helping also the National Restaurant Association, whatever they call,

David Novak 28:11 

that's great to hear. And I knew you would keep after which is terrific. Being a board member these days is really challenging. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're up to on that front? And what's really changed when it comes to board work?

Dawn Sweeney 28:24 

You know, I would say honestly, having reported to a board for much of my career. And now having served on boards for the last decade or so I would say absolutely. You are right, things are definitely changing. I think it's much more complex. The work is more challenging, in a good way. It requires a level of discipline and a cultural understanding of the brand. And you were always have been so good at articulating that I think that has become mainstream now. Whereas when you first started talking about it, it was really a brand new thing that I think based in part on your work has made the culture of the brand and the leadership essentials really vital right now. And I love being in that mix being part of the conversations with the CEOs of these various organizations to help them be their very best. I think it's hard to be CEO, it's always hard to be a CEO. It's really hard to be CEO these days.

David Novak 29:19 

Can you tell us a story about one of the companies that you're working with and one of the big challenges there have to overcome right now.

Dawn Sweeney 29:25 

One of the most interesting boards that I'm serving on is a real estate investment trust that owns shopping centers, open air shopping centers in high demographic areas, mostly suburban markets across the United States. And it's been fascinating. While we were doing well before COVID, the COVID timeframe really had a major impact on our success, obviously because everybody was migrated back to the suburbs, or many people were in these higher demographic areas in particular, not going to the office not going to the city not going to work in that way. The Open Air shopping centers that would be really busy on Saturdays and Sundays and maybe Friday. I got really busy on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday also. And so we had a real influx of traffic at the restaurants, they're at the grocery stores, they're at the retail shops and the nail salons and the pet grooming places, etc, etc. And it's been really interesting to see what a difference this has made in our ability, hopefully to sustain much of the growth that we've had, even in the midst of the Amazon nature of our world now. And retail business changing so much, there's still a huge place, I believe, in our society for coming together. Restaurants obviously being a huge part of that retail, there's just a lot of opportunity in that space, particularly in the suburban markets. That's been something I've been enjoying that part of the work as well.

David Novak 30:44 

Do you think this desire for people coming together is actually going to bring people back into the office? I mean, everybody thinks it's virtual from here on out? What's your view on that?

Dawn Sweeney 30:53 

It's interesting, because another area that I'm engaged in as a strategic adviser is with a very large real estate firm. And they have incredible research and incredible insight that would lead me to believe that it's different, obviously, it's going to be different forever. But I do believe people's desire to work together to solve complex problems are going to allow and require more in person, it'll be different different in person meeting, then we've had, you know, pre COVID, but I think the in person nature cannot be I wouldn't count it out at all, I think it's it's going to be even more important going forward. And again, the companies that are going to be doing the best, I think are going to be recognizing that and creating opportunities for people to come together in new and different ways to solve these really complex problems that we have in business today.

David Novak 31:42 

What's on the horizon that you're really excited about on a personal basis, a project or something that you're part of that really brings you a lot of joy?

Dawn Sweeney 31:50 

Honestly, everything I do right now brings me a lot of joy, which was very true in my career as well. But when you're working full time, there's always things you have to do that are not your most joyful moments. I only do things that I enjoy now. And so that's really super fun. For me, I would say the thing I'm working on right now that I'm probably the most excited about is some work with Georgetown University. I'm an executive in residence there at the business school. And we're working on lots of issues at the intersection of government, society, social impact and business. And so we're working on things like rural health development, we're working on things like portion balance for helping to advance nutrition and health. So those kinds of issues where you have people from the public and the private sector, the business community, working with government, because a lot of the intersection where I spent my career, I really can see progress. And it's fun and exciting and impactfully motivating for me to do that.

David Novak 32:51 

That's some pretty meaty stuff there. Ben, what do you think about, you know, the whole area of nutrition? What's changing in that area?

Dawn Sweeney 32:58 

I do think people are more aware of the importance of nutrition, and health. Because we've all lived through so many challenges in the last several years. We're not necessarily seeing it in the consumption patterns in a big way, I would say. But I would say just more broadly speaking, there's more awareness, and some perhaps more opportunity to impact that now people are aware and realizing so much of their own health is within their own domain of control. And so I'm optimistic about the opportunity to use the silver lining part of COVID to help advance some of those items.

David Novak 33:37 

It's been so much fun doing this conversation with you. And one of the things that I'd like to do is have a little bit more fun with you, Don, and have a lightning round. Are you ready for this?

Dawn Sweeney 33:46 

I'm ready, I think. All right.

David Novak 33:49 

What are three words that other people would use to describe you?

Dawn Sweeney 33:53 

Optimistic, hard working, and whatever the noun version of perseverance is.

David Novak 34:02 

If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why? I would

Dawn Sweeney 34:07 

really want to be someone who makes a difference in someone else's life. So I would like literally this is I would be holding a baby in the NICU that is coming off methamphetamines, that kind of thing. That's what I want. I don't know who does that. But that's who I want to be.

David Novak 34:24 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Dawn Sweeney 34:25 

People who are late

David Novak 34:27 

Do you have a favorite quote?

Dawn Sweeney 34:30 

Yes. Make no small plans.

David Novak 34:33 

If I were to get in your car right now, what would be coming out of the speakers?

Dawn Sweeney 34:38 

I drew a day I think is the artist I listened to song called Rise up. First thing I play every time I get my car every day.

David Novak 34:47 

What is the book that you've bought and given away the most copies of

Dawn Sweeney 34:51 

there's a book called The Speed of Trust written by Stephen Covey Jr. and I if it's on the bestsellers list, and they've sold 10 out send copies. I bought 2000

David Novak 35:03 

I actually interviewed Stephen Covey. Did you realize terrific Yeah, we talked about the Speed of Trust. Yeah, he's an impressive person. What's something about you that few people

Dawn Sweeney 35:11 

would know? That I'm an introvert.

David Novak 35:15 

It's so funny how all these extroverts try to convince themselves that they're an introvert.

Dawn Sweeney 35:19 

I promise you, I'm an introvert. I've worked real hard to be out there all these years to be where I need to be doing what I do, but I am at my core, I'm an introvert. How did

David Novak 35:29 

you overcome that or not not overcome. It's nothing wrong with being an introvert. But how did you become an extrovert, or at least work through the introvert to become semi extrovert,

Dawn Sweeney 35:38 

it took a lot of energy, honestly. And I think for those of us that are more introverted in our nature, but have jobs that require that we be extroverts, there's like an extra level of effort that's required. Because you have to really show up every day in a way that's not necessarily your preferred natural state. So I would get off out of my car after listening to my music, the song I told you more recently, but other songs over the course of my multi decade career, I would listen to something like that to get me go, and I would walk out of my car. And I would say to myself, Showtime. And then I would go for 40 plus years, and I probably still do it to be honest with you.

David Novak 36:15 

You know, you talked a little bit earlier about from an early age, you've always chased your personal best. How have you stayed focused on that? And it's so easy for us to measure ourselves against other people's scoreboards? How have you done it,

Dawn Sweeney 36:30 

I have been a reader all my life. And now when a reader allows you also to be an audible book listener and a podcast engager and Ted Talk subscriber and YouTube listener and all those other things that have been created over the last many years. I love to listen to other people's growth stories. And I use those as inspiration for myself. And as you say, hopefully for most of us were able to not use it in a comparative way, but in an inspirational way. And that's what I've done my whole life.

David Novak 36:58 

You know, it's so clear from this conversation, how you've continually motivated yourself and you're always learning and you're always improving. What is your personal process around continuous improvement? And how are you sharpening your AX today,

Dawn Sweeney 37:13 

for me, it's kind of a two path process. One is every single day, I try to be just a little bit better than I was the day before, that's been my mantra for many years and just a little bit better, doesn't have to be a big step forward just a little bit better at something that I did the day before that I want to do better the next day. At the same time, I'm also looking for opportunities to take the quantum leap, you know, when I have a chance to move in a big way, in an improvement, I try to take advantage of that too. So not doing either to the exclusion of the other. But trying to do both at the same time. When was the last big Quantum Leap you had probably when I retired and didn't say yes to 15 things that I didn't want to do.

David Novak 37:54 

That's a good way. You know, it takes courage to have your convictions and to stand up what you believe in. And you've done this throughout your career, how was the leader of you fostered that same kind of behavior and others,

Dawn Sweeney 38:07 

it is always about surrounding yourself with people from whom you can learn people who are better than you in multiple dimensions in their abilities to do various things that are important to the advancement of the business, or the organization, and really being motivated by the people around you. I have always wanted to be a better leader, not so much because I want to be better, but because I want to be better for my people, for my team for the people that are counting on me, that's always been a big motivator. And when you're surrounded by incredibly talented people, you have to be because they are demanded, you know, and I appreciate that. And I admire it.

David Novak 38:43 

You know, as we closed on, I'd love for you to leave us with three bits of advice for aspiring leaders, what would they be,

Dawn Sweeney 38:50 

I would say to me, the very most important thing is to be self aware. And that's a lifelong process. But to be very devoted to your own understanding of yourself and who you are, and what's important to you and where your areas of improvement are, so to speak. So definitely self awareness. The next is probably overstated, but I think it's vitally important is humility, to really honestly genuinely be able to understand who's making what contributions, the fact that none of us individually can do much of anything, that it takes a whole team to execute something magnificent. And then the third would be work really hard. I think working hard is a hugely undervalued strategy. And I don't view myself as the smartest person around by any means. But I cannot work most anybody. And that's been I think, a big part of my success, to be honest with you.

David Novak 39:42 

Well, Don, you certainly exhibit those three behaviors and it certainly served you well. And I want to thank you, once again for taking the time to be on the show and congratulations on how you're attacking life. I read a book once it said that you shouldn't retire you should retire and it sounds like that's exactly what But you've done exactly my

Dawn Sweeney 40:01 

goal. And it's a lot of fun. I will say, and I appreciate the chance to be with you again. And I love this podcast. I just love the work you do you have such inspiring guests, and I'm learning a lot continuingly to learn a lot from you. So thank you so much, David.

David Novak 40:23 

You know, I love this idea of speaking up. And I have to tell you, one of the things I enjoyed most about being the CEO of yum brands, is I love to eat our food, I love to go into the kitchens and try all the new products that we were making. And you know what, I don't know if it's true or not, but I kind of felt like I had the golden palette. I mean, I really think I have a great sense for what tastes good and what doesn't. So I always would taste the products. And then I would say, You know what, this is good. But it's not distinctive enough. How can we give it more flavor. And then it was so gratifying to come back and find that we had a better potpie to find that we had a better Doritos Locos Tacos, to find that we had better crispy strips, it was so exciting to make things better and raise the bar for people and then better yet, see them jump over it. One thing's for sure. You got to have the courage of your conviction to speak up and be heard. And if you're credible, people will listen to you. So this week, here's something simple you can do to apply what you've learned in this episode. I would imagine that it won't be long before you're sitting in a meeting and something will be said that you don't agree with and you're going to have a decision to make. Are you going to speak up? Or are you going to stay silent? Well, I hope this conversation you've heard today will give you the courage to speak up and make everything you do at your company the best it can possibly be. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders speak up when something can be better. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Bill Harrison, the former chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase.

Bill Harrison 42:15 

Feedback is long as you do it in a way that you can manage it and control it is something you ought to do. And just deal with it. Get people together, get them to talk, get them to be open and you can resolve a lot of problems and build a team that starts working.

David Novak 42:28 

So be sure to come back next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be