Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is really special. It's a person I love with all my heart, Ken Langone, who's been a mentor of mine for several years. He's the co-founder of the Home Depot and chairman of NYU Langone Health. Now here's a guy who's had more success than you could ever imagine in almost every way you could think about it. He's the most popular guest host of Squawkbox. He's sought out on every major issue by the media. He's even been featured on 60 Minutes for his breakthrough thinking at NYU Lang one Health. He's an incredible business leader and a renowned philanthropist. And one thing will be absolutely clear when you listen to this conversation. The reason why he's had so much success is his deep down belief in the power of people. There's no doubt, Ken believes that you have to recognize people, recognize talent, believe in him, and show up for the people you have the privilege to lead. And now it's time to listen in. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Ken Langone. Ken I want to get into how you leave. But first it'd be great to just start out and tell us how you look at the world and what's going on today. The country's going through a difficult period for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is COVID, the pandemic we've suffered with. On the other hand, I'm very excited to realize that two short years ago, we were all on pins and needles not knowing what was going to happen to us. And lo and behold, within six months, we had a vaccine. And here we are back at it again. Those two years took a lot out of this country. And I think the challenges as I see it in America are for our leaders, all of our leaders. You, David, myself, Biden, you name it. All you want who was biased to lead, to put a positive point of view in people 's minds, to motivate them to reach for those goals and to do everything we can to make them know that we're with them every step of the way. We've got a lot of mending to do in America today. We've been here before, before World War II, the Depression, a great analyst of all the time we've gone through bad times. We always come out stronger and wiser. This will not be an exception. And that positive attitude is something that you bring to everything you touch. At the same time, when you look at what the challenge is today, you've got incredible inflation. You have such a divisive country in terms of the politics that are out there. You got the war going on in the Ukraine, the China relations. How long do you think it's going to take us to get out of the ditch where people will feel more optimistic and get that kind of optimism that you just conveyed? Well, the actual length of time is variable. It'll depend more on the leadership, David. The need for leadership in America, positive, affirmative leadership, has never been more necessary than now. I'm right now reading a book called "Traded to His Class." It's a story about Franklin Roosevelt as he was becoming president of the United States. And you go back and think about the late '20s when we had the Depression, when the start of the Depression, then we had, on top of that, we had Hitler's ascendancy. We had Europe in turmoil. We were on our backs financially and economically as a nation. The world couldn't have looked much worse than it did in the '30s until we got to the '40s, and boy, it really looked bad. But lo and behold, leadership, Harry Truman, Eisenhower, got right down the list of all the people that showed us or led us to the promised land. And here we were. We went on to have the greatest prosperity we've ever known as society. Look at the progress we've made in quality of care, health care, longevity of life. Think about this. 60, 70 years ago, if you lived to be 50, you were an old man. I'm 86 and I'm counting on my 172nd birthday, David, okay? And I'm counting on that too. But the point is you've got to look hard. And when the going gets tough, the old saying is right, the tough get going. But you've got to look hard at what's out there and ask yourself the question, "Okay, I can sit here and ring my hands and say, 'Whoa, it's me, how bad it is,' or I can take a step back and say, 'Okay, what's my share in making this thing work better than it is right now? What's my responsibility? And what can I do to help it?' So I am an enormous faith in humanity, not just in the United States, in humanity, that we all strive for a better life. And I think this is no exception. I do believe that we've got bigger challenges now than we've ever had before, but challenges always have to be kind to this favorite expression, problems or opportunities and workloads. And I think that's the case. Yeah. And Ken, you've mentioned a couple of books already and you wrote an incredible book called 'I Love Capitalism.' In fact, you called it your love song to capitalism, which I think is just an absolutely beautiful phrase. Explain what you mean by love song. America works. Capitalism works. My grandparents came from Italy about 140 years ago and they had nothing, absolutely nothing. My grandfather died illiterate. He left school when he was six years old in Italy. He got married. He had two children. He left his wife and two children in Italy. He came to America. He shared a room with 11 other men on Morebury Street in Manhattan. Saved enough money to send for his wife and his two children and brought him over here. My mother was their first born here. At first, Charlie had together an America's mom. My mom ended up working in a school cafeteria. She married my dear God bless them, they were the most loving, giving people I 've ever done in my life. So here I am, David. Today, with somebody I admire and respect so much such as yourself and here I am being asked to give my thoughts on capitalism and leadership, that can only happen in America, David. So I thank the good Lord every day that my grandparents came to America. I say it all the time, I have a lapel pin in America flag. When I put it on every morning, I say, "Grandma and grandpa, thanks for coming to America," because it wouldn't have happened. That's great. Tell us a story, Ken, about your upbringing that when you look back had the greatest impact on the leader that you've become today. My parents were very interesting people. They had went to the eighth grade, a mom went to the seventh grade. My father's favorite expression was, "You never can get enough education." No matter how much you study, work. And I think part of that was a reflection of the fact that he only went to the eighth grade and he was capable of so much more. He was brilliant. Mathematically, he was incredible. The thing I remember about my upbringing, David, was his upbeat, optimistic, can-do belief that tomorrow would always be better than today. And the thing I feel strongest about, I have an obligation with my parents to carry this optimism on because they were eternal optimists no matter how bad it was when Dan was out of work, how tough it was. And mom, of course, had to go to work to help make ends meet, so she worked in the school cafeteria. But all those episodes, David, instilled in me, "Hey, wait a minute. Take a step back and realize how blessed and how lucky you are and how fortunate you are." And you know, David, another part of my existence, a very important part of my existence, is my spiritual beliefs. I don't think life is rampant. I think that so much of what happens to us in our lives is preordained. And the good Lord that I pray to every day that I love, that I hope I live up to His teachings, we have to be realistic and recognize we don't do all these things by ourselves. We have help. Yeah. And how does God reaches us through each other? So when you reach out to help somebody, you are doing God's work. He's telling you to do it, but you are the instrument by which you get these things done. Absolutely. And you know, you talked about your dad really saying you couldn't get enough education. You know, I know you went to Bucknell and you got your MBA at night school. Tell us about your first job in business and what you learned about leadership from the people that you worked for. I had a job working for a company called Retail Credit Company who did background checks on people applying for insurance, mostly car insurance. It ended up becoming Equifax. It changed his name. I run up with David. The retail credit, the part of that company that I worked for 35 years later, I ended up buying. It became database technologies. But anyway, that job was interesting. I came in, I was going to go in the Navy, but that was in 1957. And I was supposed to go to OCS in Newport, Rhode Island. And the Navy had a change in policy. I had got married and they only wanted line offices, not supply offices. So they didn't want married guys on these ships. So I take this job and I go in for an interview and I go in for training and that is what they're doing. They're teaching you how to find dirt on people. So in other words, you're applying for car insurance and I get the bug slip that you're applying for car insurance. If I go to your next door neighbor and I said, "You know the Novax next door? Yeah, you ever hear them screaming at each other? Have you ever seen him coming home tipsy or have you seen him straight to the side of the car on the garage door?" I mean, it was all negative. After about a week of this, I got a little angry. I said, "Wait a minute. Maybe these people are good. Why don't we try and find the good in them as well as the bad?" So I ended up deciding that I was only going to write good stories about these people. Whether they were true or not, it didn't matter. That was an incidental. So I started writing these glowing reports about these people I'd never met. And I was so successful in writing these reports that they promoted me to do personnel work. So if somebody's going to hire somebody, they put a bug slip in to get out. So in this case, it was a guy that was going to go to work for Brumman. So I'd go do my house calls and I'd go back and I'd write this report and I'd say what a wonderful neighbor he is and he does a great job. He loves being around kids and he coaches a little league baseball and he cleans out his neighbor's gutters. He's really a first-class American citizen. And about two weeks later, I get called in by the boss and he says to me, "Yeah , you know this case you did here, which one is that?" Well this guy that coaches a little league baseball and he cleans out his neighbor's gutters blah, blah, blah. But yeah, what about him? He says, "How does he do it from a wheelchair?" I said, "What?" He said, "Go clean your desk up and get out of here." I got fired. You know what? I felt good because I gave the guy a break. All right? So I got my real first job was an equitable life and the man that hired me, assigned me to work for somebody who didn't like me because he didn't have any say in hiring and he was determined he was going to break my spirit and I just, this ain't going to happen. He gave me a medial job that was boring as all hell and I made my mind up. You can find me but I'm not quitting. And I hung in there and worked out. I ended up going to the Army. I got called into the Army because it was an obligation then. I went back to the equitable for a short while and then I said, "I'm ready to go to Wall Street and of course the rest is history." But the thing that I take from that episode if the equitable was hang in there. Life isn't always good. Life isn't always exciting but hang in there. What are all you got? Don't stop. You're going to go on that trip. Make sure you go the whole route. That's great. You've had a lot of excitement in your life and one of the things that you did is you became the co-founder of the Home Depot. What was your role in getting that company started? Well, it was simple. I owned minority interest or I controlled minority interest in a company that Bernie and Arthur worked for called Handy Dan. Bernie persuaded me to sell my minority interest. I told him if I sold it to this guy he wanted me to sell it to the guy who was going to fire. I sold it to the guy. He fired him four months later. Bernie's in New York. Help me find a job and I said, "That was a fine good job. We're going to start a company." We got no money. Don't worry about that. I'll raise the money. So Bernie's a great merchant, a great retailer. Bernie has this great idea. I went out and raised the money. I put together the board of directors. These were all friends of mine. Bernie and Arthur studied in America. They decided we wanted to go to Atlanta. They put together the retail side of the business. I raised the money. Bernie and Arthur and I were the executive committee of the board of directors until Bernie retired in 2003. But it was a dream come true. So what was my role? My role was cheerleader, raised the money, put together the board of directors. To get a name. In fact, a mutual friend of ours, Marjorie Buckley, she and her husband were original investors and we were having dinner with them one night in the spring of 1978. And I was telling them we were having a terrible time coming up with a name. She and Walter lived in Bethlehem. So we have to dinner. They drove back to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And the next morning, Buck called me up and said, "Hey, Marjorie was sick of why I'm just calling home depot." And I said, "That's it. Go for that, man." You knew it when you heard that. That was great. I want a name. It's a fantastic name. It says it all. And everyone needs partners in life. What made the combination work between a Bernie Marcus, who's the merchandiser and Arthur Blank, the finance guy and yourself? I mean, how did you guys make it all work together? We all respected each other's skills that we didn't have. Bernie was a great spiritual leader as well. Arthur, new numbers back when Arthur had was a CPA, he knew retail because his family owned a health supply company that was bought by the same. The same company that bought Handy Day and it was a conglomerate. They worked well together. The three of us really were the founding fathers. It was Bernie's idea about the big box and all that stuff. And that's how it happened. When I think of my life, the greatest, the wisest decision I ever made was marrying my wife because through all the folly of my life and all the insanity of my life and all the crazy ideas, she never won second-guess me. She never once pushed back. All I knew was she'd be standing right next to me. And here we are. We're going to be married 66 years in September. You know, we're wanting to get as well. It's the biggest decision you'll ever make. And if it's the right one, God bless you. Yeah. Elaine is exactly what you say. She is so special. You know, Ken, you're a huge believer in spending time with the front line. Why do you think it's so important for a leader to get out there and press the flesh and be with the people who are really making it happen? For one reason, David, they're more important than a success of the company that I am. It works in a KFC or a Taco Bell. That's not the counter that gives the customer a good experience. That customer is going to come back. Good product, great service, great attitude. I don't want to sound like you do it for selfish reasons, but each person needs to know they matter. Home Depot today is 550,000 associates. Each person needs to know that they can make a difference. And more importantly, most of the time, they are the difference. And when you can tap into a person's sense of self-worth, a person's desire to accomplish something, and you can say to them, "I'm going to do it with you. You don't need to be any more than that. You turn them loose and they're a force to be rectable." You know, I remember, Ken, when I took my chief operating officers and we went with you to Home Depot and you got out of the car and we had about six to seven people with us. And you picked up the trash when you saw it in the parking lot. You pushed the shopping cart back in the store. You dropped everything. And this is what impressed me the most when a special needs person came up to you and said, "I just, Mr. Langone, I got to show you this display." You dropped us like we didn't even exist, but that guy was everything to you. How does that play into your leadership philosophy? David, we're all going to sing together. I may have a little bit more financial success than the next guy. I may have had a little bit more luck than the next guy. I may have been endowed with more energy than the next guy, but at the end of the day, we're all the same. We need to let everybody know they matter, David. We need to let David, you call me your mentor. There's an old expression who Deas Teach must never cease to learn. I've learned as much from you, David, as I might have taught you. I want you to know that. You're a natural leader. But seriously, we need to step out of our own bodies for a moment and say, " Okay, I'm going into the body of that kid that's over there in the God department or that kid that's over there in the paid department. I'm going to try as much as I can, visualize what he's going through right this minute." When you use empathy, when you use a sense of compassion and you let that person know that they really matter, they're precious to you, and more importantly, they're precious to what you're trying to accomplish. You share that success with them. You let them go home feeling they've accomplished something that day too. You turn that person on that way, David. It's a force that can't be stopped. I couldn't agree with you more. Another thing that impressed me when I was just watching you in action is that you met with the Home Depot Associates there. You were talking to them, asking what was working, what wasn't working. Then you put your phone number up on this whiteboard and you said, "Call me if you ever need anything or you want to know something that you don't know or something that is not working. You just call me. Here's my number. Why'd you do that? Did anybody ever take you up on that?" "Oh, hell yeah. I think it goes like crazy." What was the best idea you got from a call like that? "Well, the best idea I got was not so much a good idea as it was to instill in the kid the sense that he could make a difference. It was displaying plungers. These things which you don't have at three o'clock in the morning when the toilet stops up. You run out the next morning and buy one. You don't wake up in the morning and say, "Hey, let's go to Home Depot and buy a plunger." It's an emergency item. This kid said he had an idea of displaying them and I said, "Why don't you do it?" People, "Can I?" I said, "Why can't you?" That was on a Tuesday on the following Saturday the store had sold out of plung ers. It wasn't a big item. It was about a five dollar item. The point David is you want to have an environment where you encourage people to take chances. If it's an honest, legitimate mistake, their careers aren't at risk. You want people to stick their neck out. Who knows where the next greatest idea is going to come from? Think David of the number of exciting products that we sold at Taco Bell or KFC or at Pizza Hut that came out of some kid's mind in some test kitchen in San Diego or Dallas or wherever. But the kid had a sense of feeling like, "If it doesn't work, not the end of my life." Now, on the other hand, there were sins that are unforgivable and are punishable by death, such as stealing or cheating or lying or doing all the bad things you do in life. Being disrespectful of a customer, no matter how unreasonable that customer it might be. But the big thing, David, is to me, what came out of those calls that I hope I encourage these kids to stick their neck out and take chances. Speaking of taking chances, you were instrumental in making Frank Blake the CEO of Home Depot. He was far from a conventional choice. He's a lawyer. He didn't have any merchandising experience, retail experience to speak of. Set the stage for us on that decision. What did you see in Frank that told you that he was the right person for the job? Frank was brought in by Bob Nodell. Bob and Frank worked together with GE. Frank is two things. He's brilliant and he's the most humble man I've ever met in my life. Absolutely the most humble man I've ever met in my life. Frank was one of nine Supreme Court clerks in the year he graduated from law school. He was perked to a black man. I forgot who he was. John Paul Stevens. Frank was brought into Home Depot. He didn't know what happened from a store. He didn't know retail for wholesale. Frank was a brainiac. Every time Frank made a presentation to the board about an opportunity or a deal, whether it was a credit card or whether it was an acquisition, I was always impressed with Frank's willingness to let somebody ask a very difficult and sometimes irritating question and not lose his cool and be as matter of fact and as helpful as he could be. When it became time that Home Depot and Bob should go separate ways, Frank had been made vice chairman at that point. But his work was largely staff type stuff. It was acquisitions and it was studying for a new credit card whether we want the city corporate or whatever it could express. All that cerebral kind of stuff. But the thing I always remember about Frank and all these opportunities I had to be with him was his humility and his absolute total fourth right ability to say, "I don 't know, but I'll get to the answer." And so when it came time, the Friday before the first of the year, this was the last Friday of 2006. Gerald Floyd died, so we were given an extra day off. The first of January was a holiday and the second of January was a day of mourning for Ford. I took advantage of that second day. So I had John Clementine and John Clementine was the former head of Bell South. John was in Atlanta. I was in Florida. I called John and John was on the executive committee of the board. I said, "John, go see Frank Blake and see if he's offered the job, will he take it? I don't want to do it by phone." So John went to see him and Frank said he wanted to think about it. So John Colavac said, "John, he said he wants to think about it." Well, Tom has got three hours. That's a lifetime of my life, David. Three hours. That's the most generous thing I've ever done for anybody, okay? Why do you want to think about it? I mean, most people just jump at that job. The biggest reason I thought, because Frank is kind of a guy, "Can I do the job ?" I think that's what he wanted to think about. He took it. And I want to tell you, it's the most profound business decision I have ever made in my life. At the board meeting on the 2nd of January, there was a groundswell of belief, "Well, let's make him acting. He doesn't know retail. I said, "The hell with that? You're going to make him act in CEO. Let's cut his legs off and say, "Go run the company. He'll have a better chance that way." I said, "Look, we just proved we can get rid of a guy. If this guy doesn't work out, we'll say goodbye to him too." And that's how Frank got the job. And Frank did a hell of a job too. Back to basics, really went back and worked with the front line and built the whole spirit bad. It all due respect, belongs in the pantheon of great CEOs along with you too, David, my friend. I watched you, and I saw what you did with that company, and boy, you did a hell of a job. Well, Frank is something else. There's no question about that. And Ken, you're also the largest shareholder of Eli Lilly. What kind of story? I don't ever confirm that. That's a big guess with Lilly and me. They always wonder, "What do I own?" I said, "I own enough to have my heartbeat when things are going good." Okay, so you pay attention to Eli Lilly. And as you pay attention to Eli Lilly, what kind of special leadership skills does it really take to run a pharma company today? The one characteristic that prevails in all businesses is quality of leadership . Values. Do you live your values? Do you exemplify your values? Are you a hypocrite? The worst form of a leader of all is the one who says, "Do as I say, not as I do." So in the case of Lilly, all the way through, the values are always intact. You understand the research in healthcare, in many respects, is serendipitous. And interestingly enough, these drug companies go through dry spells. Lilly went through 20 years in the wilderness, like Moses wandering in the desert. Lilly is right now got the hottest hand in the pharmaceutical industry. But you wouldn't catch that if you weren't there. I give you a, for instance, David. I saw my company, Lilly, in November 30, '77. And from November of '77 until January of 2002, the stock went from '37 to '09. From 2002 to 2018, it did absolutely nothing. Now, I'm a patient investor, David. In all O'Jith where it was foul money, taking those all into account, my Lilly stock has compounded counting dividends at 14% a year. It doesn't get any better than that. So the thing you want to always ask yourself, are there values solid? Are there values that will bring the best out in the people that work with them ? Is there a mindset people work for them or people work with them? When you got a mindset of we instead of I or me, things work better, David. So I look for things like this. And right now, the fellow that's front of the company, David Ricks, he's spectacular. He's got a great humility attached himself. He's brilliant. He has a way and us can mentality. He's got a young team there that thinks just like him. And the root results are proving out the merits of that. You know, looking back, you also in your earlier days, you did the financing for Ross Perot and EDS. You know, in Ross Perot's legendary guy, ran for president, the United States. What did you learn about leadership just watching him in action? First of all, Ross hired kids mostly out of state universities, not the Ivy League, not the elite schools in America. Kentucky State, East Kentucky inspired them to think they were capable of so much more than they thought they could do. He motivated them by solid values. He was military right to the blood inside his veins. He insisted that they dress a certain way, ties, white shirts, low tassel loaf ers. Matter of fact, one year I set him for Christmas to pair of tassel loafers. He cut the tassels off and had them framed and sent me the tassels. That's a great story. But Ross had this great capacity to elevate the expectations of people in themselves, what they could do. And you know, David, if we do nothing more than bring people to the realization that they're capable of so much more, being a better person, having solid values. These are all attributes that if we can inspire them in people, when you unleash that force, there's no end to where it'll end up. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Ken Langone in just a minute. The Home Depot has been successful over the years because they had great founders who built a phenomenal business. And they followed it up with an incredible CEO, Frank Blake, who was the chairman and CEO of the Home Depot from 2007 to 2014. Now I had the opportunity to sit down with Frank and talk about why we should aim for excellence, not just growth. So this is an odd thing to say, I think that people sometimes they reach too high for growth, they get too complicated in how they're going to grow. If you define your goal as not growth, exactly, but you define your goal around excellence, and we are going to be brilliant at what we do, that is a compelling, fascinating, never-ending journey. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Frank Blake, episode 19, here on How Leaders Lead. You know, Ken, you've also seen some bad characters and actions over the years, and you have a great story about when you turned down a so-called opportunity to invest with Bernie Madoff, and we all know his sad story. Tell us about that occasion, and what was it that made you say, "Hey, I'm not going to team up with you." It was 2008, and I mentioned earlier that I had merged my company into Choice Point, and we sold it to Reed Elsevier, and early he was our lawyer in this case. He wrote a contract with Reed Elsevier where you couldn't get a drop of water through. It was that tight. The Lehman won bankrupt on Monday on the Wednesday after that, Reed Elsevier tested the waters to see a force majeure prevail that wouldn't have to go through with the deal, and Ed made it clear to them there was no force majeure at all. They were closing. So Friday night of that week, the same week, we sold our company to Reed Else vier for $4.3 billion in cash, that's before the government got their cut, of course. Bernie Madoff got worried to a friend of mine that he'd like to meet me, and I wonder what that would Bernie Madoff wanted to meet me for. So anyway, as a courtesy to my friend, I said, "Okay, I'll go meet him." So I took my plot in the Steve Halsford, and we wanted to see him. First of all, he showed us his art collection. He was trying to give a hoot less about it. I'm not an art affectionate artist. I probably showed him a lacquer class. Or they call it breeding or upbringing. I think you have plenty of class. Anyway, Anthony shows us the art collection. I said, "But I gotta go to a dinner." It was about a quarter to six. He said, "Well, I've found a situation that needs 500 million." I said, "Why wouldn't you give it to your existing clients?" Well, it's not big enough for them, and all I'll do is make a lot of people unhappy. So I thought to myself, "Wait a minute. He's gonna give me this phenomenal deal. He's never met me before tonight. And he's got all these people that have been his partners for years. And he's not gonna give them any of them? How would I feel if I were them? David, the golden rule. Do one to others as you and others do one to you. And by the way, David, I don't want to be on my soapbox. But if a kid ever asked me if he could only read one book in terms of becoming a better businessman, what would it be? I said, "The Bible." There's a lot of lessons in the Bible that if you listen to them, I hear the golden rule. So anyway, I thought about it, and I thought, "Wait a minute. Something's wrong here." And so we graciously declined. And of course, within a month, he was out the window. That's how it happened, David. So when you do invest in a company, Ken, what are the must-haves you have to have before you invest? The people. One of my tricks, David, if I'm hiring somebody for something, I love to have a meal with them, and I love to see how they treat the waiter, how they talk to me. You know why? Because that poor guy is working for tips that he can't fight back. I like to see the guy that I'm exploring possibilities with, how he treats that person who's totally dependent on him at that moment. Because I've been a waiter, David. I cut lawns. Christ, I did everything you couldn't like to make a buck, except criminal stuff. I'm probably going to give it a chance. I'm going to give him not a shot to let him. Only kid. Only kid. It's always the people, David. When I met you for the first time in 1997, I'll never forget Jamie and I, Jamie , Diamond and I, both went out and we bought $5 million worth of stock in what was then called, "Oh, what an ugly name, triclank global." You're right about that. Oh, go, is that horrible, man. When I met all the guys you had there and I saw the passion and enthusiasm and the collegiality you guys all shared together, it's always the people, David. What made Walmart the phenomenal successor? Bear in mind, Walmart had four little five-in-dimes in Bentonville, Arkansas. Camarot was King of the Mountain in Plymouth, Michigan. Camarot is no longer in existence and Walmart today is the largest retailer in the world. People, the little monopoly there. There was an intellectual property there. There was intellectual property in Sam Walton and his brother and all the people they had around him, but it was the ability to inspire people to do so much more than they thought they could do. I have a simple equation that's purely and simply the people. Can you're very humble about this and you never really talk about it, but you happen to be one of the world's great philanthropists. You give away not only your money, your time. What was the story of how you got involved and what is now NYU Langone Health? Ed Hurley, he's senior partner. Marty Lipton. Marty and I had this great relationship going back many years and called me one day and said he wanted to come see me and he came in with the president of NYU jail lever and they told me they were having a problem and it really was a serious issue and they needed help. I thought they were talking about the business school, which is where I went and I said business school is doing great. I said, "Oh no, no, we're not talking about business school. We're talking about the medical school." I said, "Do we have a medical? I didn't even know why you had a medical school. How are you talking about?" "Oh yeah, we have a hospital and a medical school over here on First Avenue." I said, "Marty, I don't know anything about it." He said, "Please, Jenny," he said, "We really need help." I took three months and I studied and it was essentially driven initially out of my enormous respect and admiration for Marty Lipton and all he had done for me over the years, far more than a lawyer. He was confidant, coach, counselor, anything you can imagine Marty was, I was. The more I got into it and then a man that my wife used to work for as a medical secretary, John Mountain, he was a surgeon and he was like a second father to me. I went to see John Mountain and he said, "You know what?" He said, "There's a great surgeon at NYU by the name of Frank Spencer. He's a good buddy of mine. Go in and see him." This is probably near the end of the three-month period I was studying. I went to see Frank Spencer and I said, "Dr. Spencer," I said, "They've asked me to take this job. He said, "Well, this place desperately needs leadership." I said, "Well, I don't know if I can turn it around." He said, "I don't know if you do it or not." He said, "I can tell you one thing. In spite of these horrible facilities we have here and in spite of the fact that we've got our back to the wall, the finest medicine in the world has practiced in these walls." I said, "You kidding me?" He said, "No sir." He said, "We've got the finest doctors. We have the finest staff. We have the finest." It's amazing we hold, hold together. I'll tell you a little story about Frank Spencer. Frank Spencer was really the father of open heart surgery, not the baking and not barnyard and thing. Frank Spencer. Frank Spencer was in the Navy in 1950 during the Korean War and he was in one of those mass hospitals. The surgeon generally in the United States addicted that if kids have brought in with badly wounded legs or arms amputate the arm of the leg, don't try and save it because of the casualty. They will to kid him one day to Frank's tent and he looked at his kids legs. He said, "I'm not going to take that kid's leg so if I can save those legs." He did. Word got back that Frank had violated the direct order and then we're going to court martial Frank. In the process of getting ready for the court martial, Frank said, "Yes, I did defy the order but I want you to know something. Every day I spend on the stockade will be a very cheap price for me to pay to know there's a young man walking around on his own legs in his hometown. They dropped the charges and they gave Frank a medal." Frank Spencer was probably one of the finest men I ever knew. I'm crying, David, because of the story. I got to tell you about the medical center. Elaine and I both say it's one of the great joys in all life to see what's happened. Do you know that I'm bragging now because I'm a good brag. So that's why I shouldn't say that. Well, the number two medical school in America today. I know. You believe that? Yeah. Part of your key to success is again, you pick talent, you understand leadership and you fought an amazing relationship with the CEO of NYU Langone Health, Bob Grossman , who I think is one of the best CEOs in the world. How have you made that partnership with someone as talented and as independent as Bob is work? Because he told me for a fact, he said, "You call him every day." We've had four calls today so far. I'm not exaggerating. We started at 6.30 this morning. Thank God he doesn't sleep well and I don't sleep well. So we have a couple hours jump on the rest of the world. By the way, it's 10 till 12, everybody. David, let me say this to you. This man is possessed of one of the most brilliant minds I've ever known in my life. Attached to humility that's scary. He's a remarkable human being who doesn't realize his genius and he's a leader. He leads by example and he holds people accountable. Here's this guy who's very independent, smart as hell, yet he still looks forward to those phone calls and talks about it that way. How did you build that relationship? I mean, it's one thing to have those calls now, but how did you build the trust that could get that kind of partnership? We brought him in to be the head of radiology. Our radiology program was a mess. He turned it around and that was enough for me to see how he brought people in and leadership and how he brought talent in. But I wanted him to be the dean and I went down to John Saxon, the president and I said, screw this search business. We got the guy right here. Let's make him dean. Oh, no, no, no. We have to go to the Chronicle of Higher Education and all this other highfalut in stuff and run ads and so forth. We went through a classic search and far and away, Grossman was the guy. He almost blew it when he told the search committee that if he couldn't land a deal with Siemens on technology, they shouldn't give him the job. I don't think exactly what I told him. After that interview, I was on the search committee, of course, got him outside . I said, Bob, I'm absolutely convinced that you're a Christian that was adopted by a Jewish family because you can't be as stupid as you are and be Jewish still. So he said, what do you mean? What do you mean? I said, if you're turning over your career and your future to a bunch of guys in Germany that don't even know you because you might not make a deal with it. So I went down to John Saxon. I said, John, I need a mulligan. He won't even need a mulligan. I said, I need Bob to be brought back to the committee for a second look. We brought him back. We got the second look. We picked him and the rest is history, David. You know, the other thing that is amazing is you had the vision to pay the tuition for all of your med students at NYU Langone. When did that idea hit you? And tell us a story about what happened when you made that announcement. When Bob got elected dean in 2007, I went to him that same day and I said, all right, Bob, what's on your list? He's what do you mean? That's what you must have the things you want to do. He said, yes, he said, he was in a very poor family. He said, I'd love for one day for kids to come here tuition free. I said, we're going to do it. Now it took us 13 years to raise the money. But finally we did it. And now we have the great day when we're announcing it's a big surprise. Nobody knows who doing this. Some people do, but it was quiet. The kids that showed up for their freshman class were sitting in their little white coats. It's called a white coat ceremony. And I got up and the lane got up and we were at the podium and we said, as of this minute, every student at NYU Medical School comes free tuition. And it was scary. There was a complete silence in this big auditorium where the kids' parents were. It's a big day for those kids. They go into medical school. All the faculty, it was complete silence. It's like they got an electrical shock. And then all of a sudden this eruption of noise and cheering and screaming and crying. And as I looked out at the crowd, I said, the first time in my life, I felt rich. That's the first time David, my financial success hit me. Wow, that is something. By the way, you got all kinds of personal notoriety. You and Elaine, you were on 60 minutes and I was so proud of you. I was proud to know you as a leader and Elaine and what you were doing. David, I want to say this to you. You have no idea how much I had by a Wendy and you for the way you conduct your lives and how you carry yourselves and the courage and conviction you have for doing the right thing no matter how adverse the times are for the both of you. You're an inspiration, David, and who dares lead must also be willing to follow . I remember you coming to speak to our young leaders when we had our big global meeting at Hawaii and you told them that the most important thing in life and I wrote this down because I thought it was so simple but very profound was a kind word, a thoughtful gesture and enthusiasm for what you do. How do great phrases like that come to your mind? More importantly, just the concept behind his brilliant, but just how did that come to you? Because I thought back in my life, David, all the people, the guy that brought me into the securities industry, Jack Cullen, I struggled the first six months because it was Bad Times in 1962, but he just made sure that he put his arm around me every once in a while. He just made sure, "Can you? You're going to really be great in this business. I'm telling you you're going to be a huge home run. I wish I could be a lie. He was about 75 and I wish I'd be alive to see it. He's going to be a winner in a stall like you can't believe." And my father, same thing. Mom, God bless, Mom. She used to wait for the guys to work in the boax and Friday nights, not a clock for stores open. And she'd wait for me Friday night at 10 o'clock to give me supper. And she'd sit with me at the kitchen table and she'd sit and she'd be grabbing my hand or pinching my cheek. And we needed a motor a little bit more in this country. We needed to let each other know how much we respect each other and admire each other and need each other. We're going exactly in the opposite direction, we're tearing each other apart. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. We're going to be doing a lot more in this country. When my wife, Wendy, had her stroke and then she fell and broke her arm and she was in and out of the hospitals, it was really rough. You knew I was down. We're neighbors down in Florida. You called me up and you said, "Hey, David, I'd like to take you for a ride." I'll pick you up. You pick me up around three o'clock. I get in the car. You take me to Dairy Queen to get an ice cream cone. It really made me feel a lot better. More importantly, the friendship that you exuded and the kind gesture that you made meant the world to me. Where'd you get the idea for an ice cream? Here I am with the great Ken Langone and the drive-through of Dairy Queen getting an ice cream. What kid doesn't feel good about getting an ice cream cone? I can remember my dad, a big treat for us. He'd buy a pint of briars, chocolate vanilla, and strawberry ice cream and a quart of hot chocolate. He'd make ice cream sundies for my brother and me. That was the biggest bite of the year for us. Little, you know, David, simple things sometimes are more impactful than complicated things. A fine, pot-take-fully watch at that moment wouldn't matter very much to you. But an ice cream cone that you're tasting and it's pretty good and I'm sitting here with a friend and we're looking at the brightest side of life just for that moment, but we get it. It's a lifelong memory. It's a memory that I will always have and it was a gesture I will always remember. And you know, Ken, when just listening to you, it seems like when you've done everything that you've done, it's easy for us mere mortals to think that you've always had it all. Tell us what areas or your skill said that you've had to develop along the way. David, you've got to be introspective. I was a wise-ass kid that you can't believe. I had a mouth on me that wouldn't quit. I was sarcastic. I was, you know it all. I was a lot of things as a kid growing up. I wasn't sure. That's for sure. I never was. I made my mind up. I must have been about 10 or 11 or 12 years old that I wanted people to like me . And I watched my mother and father, two very humble people, lack of education. And I watched how people gravitated towards them. Mom could take a bowl of spaghetti and some meatballs and turn it into a feast for people of enormous wealth. And she did it more than not so much by the spaghetti and the source of the meatball, but how she did it and the attitude which she did. You know, humility is probably the most wonderful human characteristic of all. If I could only be one thing, I'd say, God, I'm not humble, David. I want you. I know I'm good. Okay. So that means I can't be humble. So what I'm saying, David, is when we all recognize we need each other and we can do more for each other by needing each other and doing things for each other, when we recognize all of that, David, that's what it's all about. Unless we're so arrogant that we don't believe we can learn from anybody else, if you leave your eyes and your mind open to watching other people, you'd be amazed at how much better a person you'll be by emulating that maybe everything, but some of the things they do. And that's something that you've developed and grown over the years as you've matured. Yeah, I'm still childish. Yeah, you're right. You know, the other thing you are, Ken, as you mentioned this, you're a very spiritual man. And you know, I know you go to mass every day. You know, you like candles for people that, you know, need God's help and that 's all of us. And I know you're in a Bible study. You're in a Bible study together in Florida. And it's one of the great privileges I have in my life is to be in that Bible study and be able to share it with you and others. But what do you get out of going to a Bible study with a group of men? The one thing I pray for that I get is humility. There's a higher power that makes me minuscule relative to that force. And that force is for good. I believe that force is for good. I believe David that in that group we have, which I cherish, I think it's a wonderful group, the sharing we do and the insights we draw from each other about readings in the Bible makes me better understand the whole purpose of religion and the whole purpose of life itself. And David, when you sit in a room with men like yourself and you share with each other, you say, Hey, you know what? Gee, I just got something. You know, we live great lives. Look at your home. Look at my home, David. Look at the lives we live. Look at the clubs we belong. Look at all the things that have happened to us. Not everybody has that good fortune. There's a lot of people right now that you and I know that are worrying about being able to pay the light bill next week. Some of the caddies, maybe the guy that works in the supermarket, the guy that works at Home Depot, or the guy that works at Young Brands, wherever they are, the gal. And I think our obligation, where we can is to seek out those people, well, we can bring just a little sunshine in their lives that wouldn't be there without us. That's all right. You know, Ken, it's been so much fun talking about leadership and getting your thoughts. But I also have a lot of fun doing a lightning round, you know, where I ask you some quick questions and you give me a quick response back. So are you ready for this? Yeah. Okay. The three words that best describe you. Rache, loud, and touch. If you could be one person beside yourself for a day, who would it be and why? Ooh. A collab? Well, I wouldn't say one prayer. All those people's traits who have humility. I wish I had it, David. What's your biggest pet peeve? People who don't realize they do anything by themselves. David, we all need each other. What was the last home improvement project you took on? Cleaning my closet. Your favorite vacation spot. Sandy Lane. Sandy Lane's three hours away. You can go there for four or five days. What's something about you that few people would know? I don't think a lot of people know how spiritual I am. The best day you've ever had. Damn, at a late. That is a good answer. I'm going to tell you something that very few people would know about you. Is it your phenomenal cook? You got your mom's meatball recipe, I think, okay, which is unbelievable. You've had us over, Wendy and I over for Thanksgiving, and you made the turkey. I made everything. What do you think? You made everything. You stick any of them. That's easy. It was a very good dinner. Rival's my mother's. Not quite as good, but pretty good. Nothing like moms. Nothing like moms. You seem to know everybody. Everybody in the world knows you for sure. There are two people that you talk about a lot. One is the great astronaut Frank Borman. What has he taught you? I know that you basically think of him every day. Frank's wife suffered Alzheimer's for more than 12 years. Frank went to feed her three times a day for 12 years. One in every afternoon, in the mid-afternoon, they played games. These old children's games for the people with Alzheimer's. He never missed one of those sessions. Frank surrendered his whole life to Susan, these last 12 years. She just died last year. Frank is the most selfless human being I've ever met in my life. The other one I wanted to ask you about is the most renowned investor in the world today. Stanley Druckenmiller. He's one of my kids. He's one of the most humble guys I've ever known in my life. Every day I talk to him, he wants to cut his throat because he's not doing better today than he did yesterday. His capacity for philanthropy is staggering, David. The amount of money that he and his wife give away to charity, you can't believe. Single handedly, he has backed Harlem Children's Own, which is today the premier program for minorities in America, in education and F School programs and everything. It's going nationwide now. Let me tell you what, I am with Stanley. When I'm pissed off at him, he's my oldest son. When I'm in love with him, he's my youngest brother. Ken, it's obvious. You attack life like no other. You attack at 24/7. What are you most excited about going forward? The promise of America. I think America's best days are ahead of me. Big time. I'd like to be alive in another 186 years because what's going to happen in America is going to blow the world away. With the greatest nation on Earth, David, there'll never be another America. We go through these periods of self-deprecation and screaming and complaining. We managed to get through them and we raise the elevation. We elevate ourselves to levels far beyond where we were before. We are the greatest experiment on Earth ever. Don't sell America, sure. What am I most excited about living in America and being in America? That's what I'm excited about. Ken, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me. More importantly, I want to thank you for just the impact that you've had not only in my life, but my wife's life. You have been an amazing, amazing support and you're somebody that I admire so much. Years ago, Andy Pearson, our mutual friend, he passed measurements. He was 80. I miss him too. I didn't know what I was going to do without Andy Pearson. One of the things that I've been able to do is I've been able to have Ken Lang one. You have been just a tremendous resource to me and I appreciate you very much, my friend. The same with you, David. David, remember what I said? Who dares to teach must never cease to learn. I learned as much from you, David, as you learned from me. I think in the process, we mostly become better people. Thank you very much, Ken. God bless you, David. Well, let me tell you something. Ken is an absolute original. There's nobody like him on the planet. And didn't you just love that phony joke? I've always felt that leadership is a privilege and it's important to get behind the people you lead and love. And Ken showed us the power of doing just that. So this week, here's something you can do to apply what you've learned in this episode. I bet there's someone on your team who's going through a hard time, maybe at work or maybe even at home. And what I want you to do is simple. Just show up for them. Be there. It could be writing an encouraging note to leave on their desk. Or like Ken did, taking somebody out and getting them an ice cream cone at Dairy Queen. When you show up for your team, when you show up for people you love, it shows them how much you appreciate and value them. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders show up for the people they lead and love. All right. Coming up next week on how leaders lead is Jason Kelly, the CEO of Ginkgo Biow orks. I think you have to be exposed to a lot of people that aren't just from your little level to be good at storytelling. There is a certain story I can tell to my PhD friends from MIT that has every little bit and bop exactly right. If I only hang out with those people, I don't actually know how to tell a story that a wider set of people can understand. So be sure to come back next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I may get a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. I'll see you next week. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]