David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, I don't know about you. But today is one of my favorite days of the year round one of the masters golf tournament at beautiful Augusta National Golf Club. And to mark the occasion, I've got a very special guest today, professional golfer and defending masters champion, John ROM, I spent a lot of time with John, and I gotta tell you, this is one great guy. And I admire him very much for the type of professionally he is and the family that he is raising and his devotion to his wife, Kelly, he is the real deal. He's honest, he's direct. And as you'll hear today, he understands the power of making clear decisions, and then being accountable for them. He doesn't play the blame game with anybody. He takes accountability. Decision making is a big part of any leaders job. And if you want to get better at it, keep listening, because there's a lot to learn from John today. Once you know we've got some great golf stories, including a little sneak peek into how he's been preparing for this year's masters. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, genre.

John, it's great to have you back on the show.

Jon Rahm 1:35 

It's great to be back. First time we did this, it was a little bit of already a long time coming.

David Novak 1:41 

It was just before the US Open. And now you're kind enough to do this just before you defend the masters. And you're the only European by the way, as you well know, to win both the masters and the US Open. I mean, how does that make you feel?

Jon Rahm 1:56 

I think it's the one thing that caught me most of guard out of anything that I've ever been told about my career that maybe the and no, because I found out on that press room after that master's and I tried to go back because I kept thinking this has to be a mistake.

David Novak 2:13 

Yeah, and you're a real history buffing. Yeah. You know the history of the game you also like World History. How does just being a, someone who really appreciates history? How does that impact the way how you lead in the world of golf. The

Jon Rahm 2:27 

main reason why I love it is because my dad was a history major. So when I was young, I watched countless documentaries with him and I started liking it. I think it's really important to know what happened in the past, and where we come from, whether you want to talk about it philosophically, economically, or whatever it may be. And to get a good understanding of maybe where we're going or where we want to be. Right.

David Novak 2:50 

I just wrote this new book called How leaders learn. And one of the chapters is you learn from your upbringing. So I'd like to go really deep in the your upbringing and pick up the learnings that you gained from that experience. First of all, you grew up in northern Spain, which isn't necessarily the golf mecca of the world again, what was that? Like?

Jon Rahm 3:10 

You know, it's funny you say that, but three of the four Spanish players to ever win a major, we're all born and very, very close to each other. So if I go by names, savy born and raised in Pennsylvania, closest city, the big name is named Santander. All it was two hours east driving maybe 120 miles in the city concert of afternoon. That's the closest city and I was pretty much in the middle closest cities called Bilbao. That town is actually Baraka B A R ri. K, for whoever wants to look it up. Not a big town. So yeah, all three of us are from there. Whether it's northern Spain is not usually the best. So I think that has something to do with it. Right? Maybe growing up in in a town or area that'll be closer to what Portland, Oregon is weather wise. I don't know, toughens you up a little bit. Right? Like if it was ever a day where it wasn't raining, we're happy. Right? That was a good day.

David Novak 4:04 

Well, I got to, you know, get into my history and know a little bit more about your Spanish champions, because I didn't know they were all from northern Spain. Yeah,

Jon Rahm 4:12 

Sergio is from Costa Yan, which is the state as you would say, is Valencia, which itself is Mediterranean southeast where the weather you would say is really good, which it is compared to where we come from. Yeah. Now

David Novak 4:24 

you think about your upbringing. I know you've mentioned to me before you. You went to boarding school what you learned from that experience? Yeah, I

Jon Rahm 4:31 

guess boarding school sounds a little bit more intense. But what it really was I did go away. I love my parents, but I went to what's basically the Spanish Olympic Village for all Olympians. It's it's basically like a hotel. And we were there with all all great athletes from Spain that were getting ready for the Olympics and all the future prospects for Olympics right and they had this deal with this one high school where we were part of a high school but separate to where it was literally on the door. Notorious you will literally go what had to go through a hallway that was about 20 yards long and you were in class. So from bedroom to class was at most 10 seconds, which is crazy thing to say to think about. But yeah, that was her life. I think the biggest step for me was when I was back in Spain, the access to a golf course was kind of hard. The only golf course my family could afford to join was an hour away. So I was going to a 30 minute golf lesson and Tuesdays and maybe playing on the weekends, too. When I was there touching the golf club every single day, that was the biggest difference. And then a little bit of independence, even though the room was clean, like in a hotel every single day, and they took care of us, you had to start to maintain, have a little bit of accountability on when to wake up when you go to bed when to study, even though we had a crazy schedule for a 16 year old. I mean, we had classes from 8am to 1045 and 11 to two was practice. Two to three was lunch, welcome to Spain. Three to six was classes again, and then a 630 till about eight was workout. So then we had a walk back shower and all that have dinner by the time you're done within his 9pm. And then you tell a 1516 year old how you have to go to homework and study. I think that was the absolute hardest hurdle to get through right trying to be proficient at your sport and get through that schedule as well. That was very difficult.

David Novak 6:23 

You mentioned earlier your dad was a history buff. What did you learn from your dad that you've taken into your your life?

Jon Rahm 6:30 

Discipline, I wouldn't call my dad the most vocal person in the world when it comes to, to his parenting style. But he always showed what you should do to accomplish whatever you want to accomplish, right. And that's what he tried to make me understand there was a couple of main teachings, two sentences, he told me over and over and over. And before I was a pro athlete or anything like that, when I was a kid, he would say, and I've only heard somebody say something similar. It was Arnold Schwarzenegger, he has that the famous or the 24 hours in a day speech, my dad said, John is 24 hours, eight hours, you sleep eight hours, you go to school, that's a non negotiable, that 16 hours, you have eight more hours throughout the day, to do your homework, do some things at home, help your mom and dad and then go play and have fun. Right and I basically that that really started resonating me the more I grew up and the the older I got right and it's almost to at this point is the same thing as leave eight hours, practice golf close to eight hours. And then the rest of the time is between workouts, family time, you know, how you want to divide it, how you want to schedule it, but you have plenty of time to do everything you want to do in a day. And the second teaching was basically John, it doesn't matter what you want to do in life, I don't care. But if you want to be the best at anything you do, you're gonna have to have incredible work ethic and discipline, it doesn't matter. He always used to say if you want to be the best garbage man in the world, you're gonna have to put more hours than everybody else. Simple as that. Anything you want to do if you want to be the best you're gonna have to put in the effort.

David Novak 8:03 

Now, I'm sure you had a golf instructor when you were young, who was in what do you learn from him?

Jon Rahm 8:09 

So I had a few. The very first one I ever had his name and chlorophyll masala after that. The first individual one I would say that I had his brother actually Luis also ended up teaching me a little bit down the road. The very first one that was not in like collective kids lessons. His name was is Eduardo say yes. Last name spelled C E LL. E. S if anybody wants to go check. He's got a school of golf in the Basque Country close to where I grew up. And that's the range I was referring to earlier. On Tuesdays, I will go for a 30 minute lesson like a PM. And that was it. That's all we had time for. And when I say school, I'm playing fast and loose with school the amenities you would think, or the facilities or not, what do you think it was the driving range alone, you couldn't hit off of grass you hit off of Matt, I think right now with my forearm and I could probably go over the fence. And there was a putting green and chipping green. It was the same thing. It was synthetic. It was fake grass, and then one bunker with a couple of targets that the grass I mean, the grass was non, it was more for technique than anything. And that was it. And to be honest, some of the best times I've ever had in my life where they're incredibly fun and every time I can I go back to almost feel that essence of where I came from. Right. And what at that point I thought was the greatest practice facility in the planet. And after everything I've seen going back and and get in the field again, right. It's fantastic. I think the greatest thing Eduardo ever did was helped me understand my swing. He was the one that had the idea of of shortening my swing, because believe it or not, I came to him with a strong grip and an over swing trying to smack it like everybody else. And he said, You know, John, you hit it pretty far already while you're trying to find the fairway. And that's the very first thing we worked on. He told me how to think about my golf game. I know backwards in the sense of okay, if I To hit a shot that's missing. Right, right. Obviously, clubface was open the double start right or did it start left this time on line to check the path and then kind of work backwards that way to figure out what's going wrong. And really made me help me understand how to apply that on a golf course as well. Right. So that's one of the reasons as well, I think I've been consistent in my career. Because anytime I'm not comfortable, I feel like I can get a pretty good understanding of what's going on on my swing and apply it to at least be able to put in a score, not the lowest of the day, but at least put in a score and I'd be fighting myself. Yeah, that is telling me to never change my backswing. Katie, I know exactly why my backswing was the way it was. But he knew it worked better than anything else I could try. And he was the one to tell me never change that boat wrist or the short swing,

David Novak 10:45 

and how many people have tried to to get to change it. I mean, in

Jon Rahm 10:50 

the Spanish Federation tried a little bit, but only because we're young enough, right. And I think when I was a junior, which is now Jesus 1214 years ago, got it. I hadn't thought about that in a while. The very first thing when you got to the Golf Academy was they'll take a swim with a six hand and your driver down the line and face on and draw us like all those lines and tell you where you needed to have a perfect swing, because in their mind would be the swing that works best in their pressure, which in theory, that makes sense. What they don't know, at that time, is how everybody, every player's physical capabilities can affect that, right? Obviously, the best thing for myself is where my body's capable of more consistently. And they tried to get me to strengthen my grip and have a straight wrist and a parallel swing. And, and I tried a couple of times, and yeah, I mean, once every 100 hour hated miles and maybe straight. But you know, it was not a way that could play golf. And there was definitely I remember, I had a vivid, screaming match with the national coach on the range at 16 years old, because I just didn't want to change my swing, I was like this is I can't play golf this way. And I'm not going to change. So we're gonna have to figure out a way for you guys to make me better. But help me get better with what I've got.

David Novak 12:09 

You're a very convicted person, where does that come from? There's

Jon Rahm 12:13 

things you can do, I believe to improve and get better within those parameters of what you're capable of right without having to make a drastic change. You can commit to a drastic change, but it's going to take quite a bit of time. That's where I think if you see jack swing throughout the years, it doesn't look like that swing ever changed. He I'm sure he was working on things. But that doesn't seem like that ever changed. Right? Ben Hogan didn't seem to ever want to change his technique. I'm sure he worked on things to get better. But the essence of the swing is there. So that's kind of the same thing. I could have worked on changing my wrist angles. But I feel like, am I going to get a lot better? Probably not. And I'm going to lose a couple years and during the process of changing, right. So I think basically saying that I'm pretty sure almost anyone given to certain level is capable of hitting every single shot. And this a way to do it with the technique that you have.

David Novak 13:06 

Here you are now you've used that technique. You are the masters champion, you've had that green jacket, you know, what was the most fun thing that you did in this past year with the jacket? Oh, first

Jon Rahm 13:19 

pitch of the World Series has to be has to be I mean, that could be a highlight for anybody without having the master jacket on. But having it on was was definitely incredibly fun to to walk out into the stadium right and into the Diamondback stadium and get the the tear I got from the crowd, even though I'm not a full native, Arizona and I have been there for 12 years now. So it is home for me. I've been there longer than any other place in the planet, basically, to get the Embrace was really, really cool. And then you know, to get the chance to throw the first pitch. It was very special. I'm

David Novak 13:54 

sure every time you put that jacket on, you had to feel great. When you look back at it, John, was there anything about the jacket or wearing the jacket or having the jacket or being the Masters champion this past year? That's been challenging for you.

Jon Rahm 14:08 

I think it took a while to sit in then you are a master champion. Like I walked through it every day in the closet. I saw that jacket sometimes I touched it sometimes I put it on and it took quite a bit to set in that man. You know, you're actually a massive champion like almost at first I was a bit like you know, it's there and I know it but I didn't fully accepted. I know it's a weird way of thinking I've seen it. But it seems like such a big accomplishment in my mind that it was hard to internalize it and process it given how well my my year started last year. But challenges I wouldn't say there's really any challenges when you accomplish something that big right? I think maybe managing expectations if there's anything to do with that, that comes with any bit of success.

David Novak 14:51 

You know, they say in business a lot of times the best way to have a bad year is they have a good year you know because people just relax a little bit lose maybe their hunger. How was it impacted your psychology as a leader in the game.

Jon Rahm 15:02 

I think that in my mind, at least for me, this is where goal setting comes in. I reset my goals every year to keep them fresh. Sometimes you could be the same thing, but it'd be a new page on my, on my notebook and a new goals, some little things change. But at the end of every year, it's almost like with my coach, my mental coach, I work on making closure of 2023. And beginning of 2020, for that day, which can be a long conversation is it's very needed for me. So I can basically, you know, given into that year and start fresh on the next one, and I think that's what, what's helped me right, what do you want to accomplish this year? Because if I set myself to Okay, as many majors as I can, when in the next 1020 years, you can't lose sight of what's going on, because you got well, I got 18 more years to do whatever, right? So I'm not good at looking far ahead. I'm very bad.

David Novak 15:53 

You know, I saw the other day that you pulled out what looked to me like a journal, do you journal every day or how to use that journal,

Jon Rahm 16:00 

I have one of three, a golf journal, in the journal with my mental coach for notes with him and things that I write down that you would see my goals in, and then a Live Journal, right, where I like to separate those because golf is such a big part of my life, that if I get going in between, you know, things that might be happening in my personal life and golf, I feel like they can get blended in that sense. And I want to keep them separate, right? A priority for me is still going to be being a good husband and a good father that for sure. So I never want it to creep in. Because I've made that mistake before when I was in the past when I was younger. And the best way to understand what I'm saying is this. Ask yourself this question. Are you happy? Because you playing good golf or performing well? Or are you performing? Well, because you're happy? Right? That's a way I like to see it. Another thing that nobody knows is I took a happiness course in school,

David Novak 16:55 

what do you learn,

Jon Rahm 16:58 

happiness is not given, that was the biggest thing I took from from that class. If you're gonna sit down, waiting for some divine intervention to make you happy, you're gonna wait till you die, because this is not going to happen. You need to work on your own happiness, you need to work to make things happen to basically to a point where you feel satisfied with your life to where you can be happy. Building Blocks,

David Novak 17:16 

is you well know and I know you're excited about it, one of the great masters traditions is the champions dinner, what are you looking forward to the most, you know, gathering with past champions? What do you expect to get out of that or pick up just from that experience?

Jon Rahm 17:31 

It's crazy. This is the one perk from being a Masters champion that I feel like I put the least amount of thought into meaning, you know, when you're practicing, if I made this by you win the Masters, so you know what it entails, right? The jacket, the ceremony, you get to come back every year, all those great things. And you think about the dinner, but you don't actually think about being present and that dinner with who's going to be there. And I think that might have been the most daunting thing out of all to recently think about not the menu, but be like, okay, at some point, I'm going to have to speak, I'm going to stand up. And I'm going to see every single living legend that this game has ever had pretty much or currently has. And I'm going to have to speak and I think that might be the hardest thing I've never had problems with speaking but I know Mr. Crenshaw is gonna be next to me Mr. Ray Lee's gonna be next to me. And then you start with, you know, with Jack Tiger, Phil, and all the great players that come up to that Gary Player, right? In wisdom. Jose and Sergio is even thinking about it the same the second I may I say Jose, I'm sorry, just start getting emotional because of how much meaning this has, right? So no idea what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna basically speak from the heart. It might not sound the best, but you're gonna feel what I'm saying. I've never been good at preparing speeches either. I have a hard time writing down and making sound genuine. If I go to foreign events, and

David Novak 19:00 

everybody will be eating what you've selected for the dinner itself. What are you most looking forward to having at that dinner?

Jon Rahm 19:08 

I think the one that a lot of people see and they're asking me about as he says mama RAM special. Which the funny thing about that is she is now my mom, she's my grandma. But it's her lentil stew, right? It's the very first thing I want to eat when I get back home. I go into her her house still and being able to enjoy that meal is gonna be part of the appetizers with a tapas and then during the cocktail hour should be a smaller version but you know to know that her dish is gonna be served that I guess the national is quite special. How should you feel about it? I don't even know if she knows. But she she's definitely heard about it because Jose Andres who who helped me with the menu, he called her to get the recipe to be able to make it as authentic as possible.

Koula Callahan 19:54 

Hey, everyone, it's cooler here from three more questions. If you're leading a team I know it's really hard to Find time to consume leadership development content and continue investing in yourself. That's the whole reason we launched the new how leaders lead app. If you just take two minutes a day each morning to watch the daily leadership insight and the how leaders lead app, you'll stay inspired with practical Leadership Lessons from the world's greatest leaders. I've started using the app and I love how the daily leadership inside gets my mind right before the busyness of my day starts. Download the how leaders lead app today in the App Store and stay inspired with amazing leadership wisdom and just two minutes a day.

David Novak 20:43 

As you move through your early years, you make this big decision to come to the United States to play at Arizona State. How do you think through that decision? John?

Jon Rahm 20:54 

Is not the process people think so. being brutally honest, if a lot of those NCAA rules are hard to understand to Americans, imagine what they sound like to a European who has no idea how this works, right? So I did really well on my junior years. So plenty of coaches on those not international events, and never had a single offer. And here I was at home thinking that am I not good enough? Am I not this? Am I not that like I'm finishing top 10 I'm top 10 In the European rankings, nobody wants me and kind of questioning what my future was in a band is as funny as we were thinking about entering university in Spain. Around that time, in summer, I played an event in representing Spain as the under 18 European Championships. 16 countries, best six players from each country go and on the second round of Strokeplay does two rounds of free play and then you go back out country versus country right? On the eighth do not forget this. I saw somebody were in San Francisco. It was University of San Francisco head coach was there my grandma she's been a pivotal part of my my life that I think about it. indirectly. She she had just been in San Francisco in summer. So the summer before so I went up to him and said I told him exactly that is I've heard great things about it. Tell me how it is. I guess that wasn't in breach of any NCAA rules because I went up to him as I understand it, and we strike a bit of a conversation with my limited English at the time and he decided to follow me. So I par eight and nine and then I bet birdie 1011 1213 ego 14 finished second on the Strokeplay portion of the tournament and then went undefeated and matchplay, Spain won the tournament. Needless to say, shortly after that I had a full ride for four years University to San Francisco. The only thing is because I'm from November, they thought I was a year behind what I really was. So they wanted me to sit out a year in Spain. I was going to do that and try to get some credit to transfer right. During that process, a friend of mine who was also on the national team, he wasn't in a tournament, but he was already in college. He was at Iowa State, and he was supposed to transfer to Arizona State. And for whatever reason he ended up not doing it seems like a no brainer to anybody. Right. But he didn't. So Tim Mickelson, who was the head coach at that time, had a vacant scholarship and a man who was helping the Spanish Federation to get players to better schools. His name is Ricardo Linka. He told him, Hey, you should hear about this kid. He's really wanting to go to the US. He's got an offer already. But she has to wait a year in Spain for that, you know, tell him all my rankings. And Tim had never spoken to me and never met me never seen me hit a shot before based on my accomplishment alone, basically. And what some people told them offer me a scholarship. They offer me a one year scholarship. And then after that it'd be based on performance and academics I guess. And I told me that well, I don't want to wait a year and the weather's better in Arizona. So here we come. We did a little check in right there was a Spanish golfer at the time, a woman Spanish golfer on the team, who had been on the national team for me with me forever. So I know she was on the same academy with me. So we've been close for a long time. I knew Alejandra Canada is another great collegiate player in Spain had been there and made a pro and had a great career got a lot I think on the north out and when you have both played for Arizona State I kind of thought you know, maybe there's something you have your Spanish and you go there you're gonna do good. And I guess the rest is history. Absolutely.

David Novak 24:26 

And you know, you stayed for years you were the college player of the year your junior and your senior year I believe. And you know, I'm sure people wanted you to go pro after your junior year and you're doing well you finished fifth and as an amateur and the Phoenix opened you know, what made you stay Why do you stay and get your degree?

Jon Rahm 24:47 

I promised my parents I was going to graduate. That simple, which I guess thinking back on it I guess it could have still graduated but turned pro. It was two main things it really when it happened I had proven myself that I had the talent to win on the PGA Tour. So that almost took pressure off. And then I thought to myself, Am I ready to live this life? I just didn't feel like I was ready. It was very simple. I would have had to turn pro at that moment and had no starts. Nothing, no, no way to go. Right. And that was a big leap, without having the proper people around you to sustain what a professional life could be. So I made my whole senior year a matter of getting me ready for that moment, right. So when I knew who was going to be my manager, who I talked to Tim, who was going to come with me once I turned pro where he was gonna leave the school. He helped me throughout that process, you know, we had a lot of things set up. And by the time it turned pro, I had seven starts on the PGA Tour. Right? So at least I had a path, I had the seven start. And I knew what I had to do. I had seven events to earn my PGA Tour card. And luckily, I did you

David Novak 26:04 

know, you weren't born with a silver spoon by any means. And, and the thing that is interesting to me, you know, we've become really good friends and you've stayed in my house and the other night you came in, said, Where's the detergent? Okay. And then we talked a little bit, you're gonna wash the clothes. You know, I said, we have somebody maybe could help you out with that. And you know, I know what I'm doing here. It kind of surprised me that you did. Yeah. Why is that surprising? Well, I don't know. I don't know how to turn on a washing machine. Well, you're pretty pretty, you know, it's like, you know, you don't think of this guy who's this mega superstar doing the laundry, but you do it. And as I understand it, one of the reasons why I love you so much. You really lived off of Taco Bell food, right? I did see that big value actually money through the funny

Jon Rahm 26:45 

thing is so known or Well, that was college times. Yeah, taco came in clutch. The funny thing is, I think I had anything but tacos at Taco Bell, which I know makes no sense. There was I had a class I forgot the name of the class. But it was two hours, a break and then another two hours. And I remember on that break, I would always go to Taco Bell. And that time, they had this big old tray of nachos. And I was like, Man, that sounds amazing. So that's where we're going. And yeah, that freshman year, I basically a weekly trip to Taco Bell every single week.

David Novak 27:14 

There we go. It's a key to your success. No question, you know, and then you decided to become a communications major, you know, why did you take that path?

Jon Rahm 27:22 

I started business communication. Okay. And all these classes that I explained earlier, biggest classroom I had been in was 40 people. I go to my first business class, he was macroeconomic principles. It was basically a movie theater with 350 people and the teacher had a mic. With my English, I could not understand a single word she was saying, also, I didn't have a laptop, I had a notebook and pen. And I look at the screen and I see all this, all those PowerPoints with like, blanks in the sentences where you're supposed to fill in the blank, actually speaking to the and study for quizzes, and I'm like, Man, I am way out of my league here. And a couple of those economic classes I didn't love but some of the business of the communications ones I took, I thought were extremely fun. So I decided, You know what I'm gonna go just this route, make it a little bit easier for myself. And I ended up loving it. And all that reading and writing and speaking helped my English tremendously early on. So I know it's a little bit odd to think of a person as I speak a lot of English to end up with a communications major, but it really did help and I enjoyed it.

David Novak 28:30 

You're actually very, very good at communication. It's no question about it. One of the things I really enjoyed watching a couple of years ago was the RBC heritage at Hilton Head and you were in the booth as an announcer and, and you really told it like it is on every shot. I mean, you know, do you think there's any area of improvement for golf announcing these days? Well,

Jon Rahm 28:51 

yes, but I think there is, I think in a lot of sports is ways to improve it pretty much anytime I talk to an athlete display the sport, everybody thinks so. Granted, we say it with zero experience of what is behind me on the booth behind the mic. We don't know what you can and cannot say, right? But almost feel like all those things that you're not supposed to say is boom, make the broadcast and a lot more fun. So I don't know how long I would last behind the booth right now. But I think this way of doing it. I also think when you have somebody you know when I did RBC I mean, I just won the masters. I played the tournament, I think I think it's 15. So there is a factor of credibility when not only have we been performing well, I just played that golf course. Right. I mean, I sat down sign the scorecard. 10 minutes later, I'm in the booth. So no better experience than that to be able to tell you what's going on. And if there's a way where you know they can make that happen, well, maybe more players can get themselves to do it. And maybe it's not just me and a man though rowing them and then you can get me and Rory or two or three other guys that have played the golf course to have a little bit of a discussion. I think that could be something that'd be really, really fun, kind of like the Manning cast. Right, you have the Varian brothers who know about football more than anybody else out there. And I think the only one that might know more might be Tom Brady and a couple coaches. I mean, they're in the elite as elitist league comes in, they can understand the situations and explain them in a way that maybe not everybody in the booth could write at least being a little bit more fresh, especially governor, if they had just played the golf course. I would I think that's the key party, we can do it on the weekend, somebody that's played earlier, and you can get him to talk about it, I think is where, you know, you get the actual idea of how it's played. Great

David Novak 30:35 

suggestions, no doubt about that. Now, I know how much winning the Masters really meant to you. Is there any story you haven't told yet about winning that masters that's behind the scenes, that would give us a sense of just what you were feeling as you were going through that challenge? I

Jon Rahm 30:54 

think the funniest one was some seven on the third round on seventh when I hit it on the green and we get there and I mean, it's pouring down rain. And I don't care how good your drainage system is on a golf course, there was no way of playing with that rain, and we marked our balls and the thing it was Brooks's turn to put in these poor guy has come out with the squeegees. And they they're doing this work, I mean, they're killing it and they're killing themselves doing it. And they secondly clear out the last six feet of the party move towards the ball, clear out the other six feet are full of water again, I mean, we're there I don't know if there's image of this, we're talking to the to the official me and brochure saying I mean, we would play with this, we can't, we're gonna be here all day, like unless he hits it while they're squeegee and we can't put and this poor guys must have squeegeed The green for about 30 minutes. Before they finally called him. We told them like I don't know, we'll get what we can do. Because that seemed like the hardest thing I've seen on a golf course or somebody to do it besides what everybody I mean, we also the trees on 17 and all that. But that was I mean, we're Sam Bennett was with us. And we're all like man, I feel bad for those guys. Like they've been there for a while. And they just had to keep going until they stopped or we put it

David Novak 32:03 

you know, and I know one of the pivotal holes on Sunday was 14, walk us through just how you processed what you had to do at that point in time, what was the mental process you use to hit this shot to basically three or four feet.

Jon Rahm 32:19 

So it's funny. This year, this past year, this started reducing the amount of rough but I guess the national on a couple of the holes and 14 is one of them, that rough line was easily five years up. So two years ago would have had a straight shot goes who would have hit the rough and stayed. That year, there was more fro in that book kept on going into the rough and within the misfortune of and then up there, which wasn't I mean, it's just the show was going there, I had a perfect swing and a good lie. So I didn't have any really impediments besides the ball flight. And well, I had a couple tree branches to avoid. But I could start at the left edge or the green. And then he was left to right wing. Now at that point, I have a three shot lead on Brooks and Phil. And I'm aware that maybe I'm not going to make birdie but you know, apart on the whole going to 50 and he was downwind is a good chance of a birdie. You know, I could set me up pretty well for as the back for the back nine. And I think it was around 100, High 20s meters, I knew all I had to do with that wind is get it to fade a foot. If we faded a foot the wind was going to take over and that ball was going to be on the grain whether it took this loop or not. It's irrelevant. I knew it'd be on the ground. I could too. But and that's exactly what I did. I actually, I got a little bit more spin than I thought it was going to get out of that life started left of my life but fade in plenty. And once the ball was going, I think I mean, me and Adam, were both thinking the same thing. It's like, Please land exactly. Not exactly, but just don't let along. That's where I was thinking as long as it's not long, we were good. And we saw land on the slope. And after that, not that I knew it was gonna go to three feet, but I knew it was gonna feed into it. And that's gonna be a birdie chance. And

David Novak 33:59 

that was basically the tournament and at that point in time you I mean, you didn't feel that on TV.

Jon Rahm 34:03 

Yeah, but you still have to get through 16 and 17 t and 17 seconds. 17 in general is a much tougher hole that most people think,

David Novak 34:12 

you know, you play on these huge stages and you know, as leaders, we get into these situations where we got to up our game and perform at the highest level when it really matters most what coaching can you give us on what you do to get yourself prepared to play at a US Open or to play at the Masters or? Or to come down this stretch in those last three holes where you got to pour in or make a birdie? What's your mental process for that?

Jon Rahm 34:42 

Two things having a routine a proper routine that you can, you know, keep you in that flow state of competition, right? I try to have the routine as repetitive as possible. I just think to an extent you have to be decisive, very decisive. Right when Pulling a club trying to hit a shot, whatever it may be. I rather in my case, I rather have the let's say the wrong strategy or the wrong club and hit a shot 100 person committed. Because if you make the right swing or the right shot, more often than not given a certain level, especially if you're competing to win, you're gonna end up okay. Right? No matter how small the margins are, you end up okay. If you had, let's say, the REI club, uncommitted. A lot of times, you're gonna end up in a terrible spot. So I think commitment and whatever, in that decisiveness, choose one and commit to it. 100%. And then you have that routine to help you be on that flow state. Right, whatever, whatever that may be. So

David Novak 35:42 

you when the Masters you're at, you've just come off this incredible year, the years about the end, and you know, 2023, and you get back into headlines, big time with the announcement that you're joining live golf. I know you've talked about this a million times again, and I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. But you know, as a leader, how do you think through that big career decision?

Jon Rahm 36:05 

I think is the biggest decision I've had to make golf wise, because with college it was made for me. Can I just explain it? So besides switching to Callaway, after being tailor made me and my career this was it in with all the variables? I think it was it was the harder? Well, I think it was a long a shorter bit longer process in a weird way. I think me and Kelly Kelly, my wife put what could have been a six month process of thought we had to put it in to three weeks. So it was two three very tense weeks of of thinking about all this, obviously, no way around it. The money I got over was so astronomically big. We had a considerate that'd be a number one, right and ultimately being a large percentage of the reason why we made the decision and then at the end of the day just outweigh in what, where I saw my career. And when I think it could be right I think something that hasn't been a possibility in the past, which is the availability of consistent team golf is something that I think has a lot of potential. I've been part of Team my entire life. In fact, when I turned professional, it was the only time I wasn't part of a team because I was either part of my state team, national team or Arizona State, sometimes all three at the same time. Up until I turned pro being part of a Ryder Cup is some of the best memories I have. And I thought this had a lot of potential. So, you know, we decided it was it was really good timing for me to go in and give it a chance. I know it sounds a little bit out of thought. But that's a very dumbed down version of what we did.

David Novak 37:45 

So you're definitely gonna make a lot of money in a hurry. Okay, no question

Jon Rahm 37:49 

about I mean, it's funny, because we all think, Okay, how many people in this world if I could say, raise your hand to the planet who wants to work less and make more money? I think more people, everybody's going to say that, right? Isn't I'm not really doing less, because I'm gonna pretty much play the same amount of tournaments. But the idea is there, right? That's, that's kind of the thought, right? I've never been a money driven person. But you have to think about it right? A generational wealth, not that my family was going to struggle, but I have the capability of setting up a serious amount of generations of my family, basically for life. And

David Novak 38:24 

the team golf concept really intrigued you and as the leader of this team now, then, what are you trying to work through to really lead that team in the best possible way?

Jon Rahm 38:34 

Well, that's why I'm here talking to you. I think that's the next hurdle for me, right? I'm not I'm playing Captain leader, slash owner, however you want to call it. And, you know, I gotta, I have to get to know these guys and learn how to communicate with each other and trying to get the best out of them. I don't want to fall victim over I've done in the past and think that everybody thinks the same way. And everybody gets motivated the same way as I do, which I know is not true. We all have different upbringings. And we all think that different so I think luckily, Terrell and I have spent quite a bit of time together so I have a decent idea of how to push his buttons and the railway. But Kieran and Caleb, I need to get to know but luckily, you know, they're very, they're two very standard guys with a lot of talent. So while I'm working on myself, and how to make it the best experience for them, I know they're obviously they're gonna be they're gonna be just fine.

David Novak 39:34 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with John ROM in just a moment. You know, if you love golf as much as I do, I invite you to go back and listen to one of my favorite episodes with Jack Nicklaus. He's arguably the greatest golfer of all time. And I asked him what made him so consistent in his career, and this is what he had to say. Well,

Jack Nicklaus 39:54 

first of all, I think being prepared is probably the most important thing In any walk of life, you can't walk into a business meeting, you can't walk into anything as a salesman or anything, if you're not prepared. And I prided myself on being prepared to play when I was ready to play wanted to play. And so as I went in each of those majors, I really geared myself early in the year for the Masters, I practice on courses that I thought were courses, it would help me for Augustine. And so when I got to guess I was ready to play a guest. And so being prepared, being ready, and being focused on on those events, were something that that I really prided myself on. And if you're not prepared, you're not gonna you're not going to perform. And so I think my consistency came because of my desire to focus where I wanted to focus of where I thought was important. Don't miss

David Novak 40:49 

your chance to learn from Jack, who happens to be a living legend. Check out the full conversation with Jack, Episode 21 here on how leaders lead.

The one thing that you did that got a lot of criticism, and I would say unfairly is that you changed your mind. Okay? You changed your mind after being very public saying you didn't need the money you wanted to be in the PGA Tour. Live was not for you. This brought out a lot of haters. I mean, there's no question. It was like, oh, you know, how could you possibly change your mind after going so public? You're you've already made your money. Come on. Well, what are we talking about here? I mean, that was a perception in some corners. How did you deal with that? Because, you know, a lot of times leaders have to change their mind. And

Jon Rahm 41:43 

I would tell them, I agree. I mean, I said what I said, and I understand. What I would tell people is, I think the set of circumstances had changed, right? The let's say the damage sphere on golf that changed. The second condition I hate to play is not the blame game. But the second the PGA Tour agreed to do that agreement. Everything changed. Right? They agreed to maybe possibly partner with him in the future and get to an agreement as a player in my mind as well, if it's okay for them. Why wouldn't it be okay for me, and that was the first time I thought about opening the possibility of, of maybe doing it, I think that single decision or that single act, small or big, however you want to think about it is what changed? And what changed my perception yet. I agree. I said what I said, and it was the US Open, and even throughout the decision making some of those concerns was still there. But hopefully, we can change some things to make it a better product as well. But yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest things was was facing that negative backlash of contradicting what I had said, but I tried to be as honest as I can. And I think I accepted the fact that that was going to happen, and I feel like there's gonna be some people that are gonna decide to hate me no matter what I do. So I decided to do what I thought it was best for me and made the best decision. I could and I can live with it. Is that simple.

David Novak 43:11 

You've got this unique vantage point. Now, John, you're, you know, you've been on the PGA Tour, and now you're at live. So if you could bring the two together, what do you think would create the best world for golf? That would truly grow the game?

Jon Rahm 43:26 

There's room for both, right? There really is room for both we can, at the end of this, we can end up with such a good product for the average golfer. And that's the exciting part. That's why get excited. We have something that's never been there before. major championships are not going anywhere. And regular golf regular tour events are not going anywhere. There's always going to be placed for that. But we have the opportunity to diversify is that would that be the word and a little bit and, and that's something fresher to what a lot of golf fans are doing now, which is a little bit different golf to what we've had in the past. Right? We have team golf. I think that is it's an untapped potential. I think being the team Golf has a massive a massive potential of rate when it comes to the game. I don't know what how it looks like. Like if we get to a merger union however you want to call it and what's going to happen but what am people want to see maybe two or three more teams with some of the bigger names or a tiger whoever wants to have a team have a chance to play and then some of the bigger players in lives still go into your favorite tournaments on the PGA tour because I've said and I'll say it every time as long as there's not conflicting with the schedule this many PGA tour events I don't like to play right. Torrey Pines, shocker. I want to go back to Torrey Pines, Phoenix la players. There's many of them that I would like to go back and play and I think it would be better for everybody. I don't know. That's just my

David Novak 44:53 

Yeah. So here you are now, John. I mean, you are you became the face of the lib tour. Okay, you That gives you a huge platform. You know, how do you think about that in terms of what your role is? Now, as the face of the tour? Man,

Jon Rahm 45:07 

you're always asking me questions I don't think about it's funny you thinking about this, I'm trying to win tournaments, right? So I don't I think my job is to still try to perform a demo. Well, I haven't been performing and then slowly, try to do the best they can and give advice. Or my opinion, when they asked me what I think we should go, right, I'm not wanting to impose myself, I would only do that if I see things going very wrong. But at the end of the day, I still need to play and keep winning tournaments to I guess, in a word stay relevant. And that's it right? Is where I haven't really given that much thought, I don't see myself as the face of anything like I'm just going out there to perform. But if that's the case, thank you, and maybe you can tell me what I should do?

David Novak 45:54 

Well, one thing I can tell you is everywhere you go, everybody knows John ROM, you are a brand in and of itself. How do you think about the John rom brand and what you want to be connected with and associated with?

Jon Rahm 46:09 

See, here we go again. Think we're still early on my career to, to where so far as the accolades that count towards your brand. However, anybody thinks I act on the golf course, I think what I want people to realize and see is I'm very different off, right, I tried to be as honest and honorable as I can throw my life. It's like I said earlier, if all else goes to hell went to Italy, for no work harder not to let that happen. If my brain can be known as somebody who has John, think of the name of somebody who's a good dad, a good friend, a good husband, there'll be enough for me. But there's so much more in the future, right? I think many times I've said, especially when the name live comes up. I've spoken to how savvy change golf in Spain drastically, right. So if I can do my part to improve the game in Spain and accessibility to the game in Spain, and in more places, I think that's also important. I think Arnold Palmer and Jack did a fantastic job of being able to do that transcending from their playing time to adding their name to golf courses and bringing more to it. And if I can do that, which I envision that being a little bit later in my career, even though we're working on some things now, that is definitely the next step, try to give back to the game that's given me so much.

David Novak 47:36 

When you think about your your business, the John rom business and what you currently have, you know, with all your sponsorships, just the revenue that you bring in, what's your approach to leading your business team?

Jon Rahm 47:49 

To be honest, I tell them all, I hope, when you get involved with me, you're ready for about a straight shooter as it ever comes. That's honestly being the best policy, I think, like I said earlier, for the most part like to refresh my goals, and staying in about as honest and constant communication as I can. Within my time, right, obviously, maybe this week, this next week and the week of the Masters, I'm going to be an absolute ghost for a lot of those things, because for obvious reasons, but but there's times where I'm usually available, and I can work on those things to to get going. The one thing I need to work on. And I said earlier that I'm not good at it, I need to become a little bit better I have in a future plan. I'm absolutely terrible. And looking down the road. Like when I say years down the road, I'm horrible. I'm like really good at looking at tomorrow. And that's about it. So now that I'm talking about it, that's something I need to get better on to maybe help my team get a better idea of what to do if they can't get a hold on me.

David Novak 48:49 

So you refresh your short term goals a lot. And so what would be an example of a great short term goal besides winning the Masters, I'm sure which is coming up right now. No,

Jon Rahm 49:01 

no, no problem, my notebook. It can be as simple as you know, being live Team Champions, it can be as simple as improving certain parts of my game, it could be as simple as that I want to go down this, I don't only do professional goals, I do personal goals as well. So what it will be being a better listener with Kelly or doing something better with the kids or my parents or whatever it may be, things like that. So whatever I think that I need to do to improve as a person more, that is bad, but like to get a little bit better at that would be an every

David Novak 49:39 

leader that that I know that has had a great amount of success over a long period of time, puts process and discipline around what really matters and whatever their vocation may be. So when you think about that, and in the world of golf, what's your process and discipline for getting prepared for the tournaments that you plan?

Jon Rahm 49:58 

Well For a little bit start with stat, right? What does a golf course require? I guess that would be the easiest because we played every year and you know what you need? Right. So

David Novak 50:10 

we'll take us through your thinking on Augusta since it's coming up. Yeah,

Jon Rahm 50:13 

cuz I don't want to give too much. Obviously, I guess to national, this a couple things. But if there's one thing that my game I always get mentioned in the media, which drives me nuts, I can't hit a draw, which Ha, massive champion can hit a draw. Look at that. It's about a skeptic as I'm gonna get right now. But that's one of the things maybe we'll work on getting some shots to be right to left, right. Surprisingly, for people that don't know, besides maybe three T shirts at Augusta National. The sharp tip that you need the most is a fade, especially into the greens. There's no surprise Jack one six times is no surprise Tigers one five times, I mean, tell you can move in both ways, but predominantly a fader of the golf ball, right? Follow, right. So I would work on those few shots that I know I'm going to need a drawn and then a lot of it is almost touch around the greens for me. And when you go to Augusta, you're going to miss greens, you're going to miss fairways, this is kind of how it is. So I think the one thing in common from every single champion is their short game stats are really high up. At that point. It's you're working on everything, right? But it all depends on how you feel at the time, it is really hard to put it on in a simple way. And it's so personal to me, right? Like if you're a drawer of the golf balls, you're not thinking about him to draw because you know how to do it, right. So it's hard to put it in, in a way where and I also don't want to give out too much of

David Novak 51:42 

what I do. Yeah, you don't want to give away any trade secrets. So exactly. That's

Jon Rahm 51:46 

just kind of tough. Like that's why I say stats, maybe I'm working on something that my stats say were a weakness, right. Things like that.

David Novak 51:53 

You know, there's been a lot of fun, John, and I want to have a little bit more with the lightning round of questions with you. So are you ready to go here? I'm ready. What three words best describe you. Discipline.

Jon Rahm 52:02 

I want to say sensitive and loyal, sensitive in a way of a loving person. So I don't know how. Okay, down deep. I'm a teddy bear. I'm complete Teddy right. So an angry on the golf course. But I'm the biggest softie you'll ever meet.

David Novak 52:16 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be and why?

Jon Rahm 52:19 

So well, 10,000 names that come to mind. Right now currently, yeah. Honestly, just because of the success that she's had. And I would like to tap into that. See what that is? Like? It was a Taylor Swift. Being an entertainer, I mean, this seems like it'll be a heck of an experience. Yeah.

David Novak 52:42 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Jon Rahm 52:43 

And the one that comes to mind if somebody chews with a mouth open, like chewing gum or whatever, maybe?

David Novak 52:49 

Who would play you in a movie?

Jon Rahm 52:53 

I always say Antonio on that because he's Spanish but at this point, you know, we he would happily play a little bit older version of me right now.

David Novak 53:00 

I thought you might say Russell Crowe and the Gladiator. I'll

Jon Rahm 53:03 

say Mansur young Russell Crowe maybe Tony they'll be in the Spanish the Spanish version. Although my accent is not there anymore. Like it was used to pants

David Novak 53:13 

or shorts on the golf course.

Jon Rahm 53:17 

Regular events shorts majors pants.

David Novak 53:21 

Music or no music

Jon Rahm 53:24 

Come on. I'm starting to hate this.

David Novak 53:25 

Come on.

Jon Rahm 53:26 

I can do with either or. Okay, how about that I'm neutral on that I can do with

David Novak 53:30 

that sort of really mousy and no, because I've always played

Jon Rahm 53:33 

with music when I'm home. But I honestly like when I'm watching live I don't notice it. So Okay.

David Novak 53:39 

Three tournament rounds are for. For what do you spend the most time doing when you're not on the golf course?

Jon Rahm 53:51 

Not right now. Being with the kids, whatever it may be. What city

David Novak 53:55 

in the US Do you look forward to visiting because of a restaurant that you know you get to eat at San

Jon Rahm 54:00 

Diego? Which restaurant can sushi works out? If you haven't been you have to go?

David Novak 54:05 

What's the country everyone should visit in their lifetime? Spain. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear

Jon Rahm 54:15 

anything? Honestly, anything? It could be anything. The funny thing is up until recently country wasn't an option but now it's

David Novak 54:23 

now it is an option. What's something about you few people would know nothing.

Jon Rahm 54:27 

This is a question for you. i Okay, that one I mentioned this to you a long time ago and maybe you're baiting me to say it i i am a professional hoarder of things I like anything that's given to me or that is bought I will form an emotional attachment to it and I'll I can't get rid of it. I have such a hard time like if you go through all the golf bags I've had and you go into the top pocket where I usually put my phone and my watch and things like that. In a lot of them you will find things that fans gave me. I just can't get rid of it. The Turning off back. So I know it's not thrown away, but like, it's there. And then same thing, like, even with getting rid of anything old shoes that I've used for so long, I never gonna use I can't T shirts, I just have such a hard time getting rid of what I've used and what has been mine. The

David Novak 55:16 

most rewarding thing about returning to Augusta as the reigning champion,

Jon Rahm 55:22 

I think the treatment you get from the staff, as a champion. It does make you feel different, like you, you've always wanted to come back as a champion, and you know, and be known as a champion, but the way the staff makes you feel when you're there. And as a champion, especially a recent champion is quite incredible.

David Novak 55:42 

You've had so much success already at such a young age 29 years old on, you know, how do you think about giving back to others? What's that part of your life look like?

Jon Rahm 55:50 

I'm one of those that I will do my charitable contributions, I just don't advertise it for the most part. And it can be anything from what we feel passionate about to natural disasters, right. It could be anything where we think you can help people. With that said, I do want to at some point, have my own foundation and focus on on something in particular. But as in right now, we haven't really meaningfully haven't really thought exactly what we want to be doing. Right. We still like in being able to help whoever whoever's in need at the time.

David Novak 56:23 

You know, you have an amazing wife, Kelly, and you have two little boys kappa. And Nico, was just announced now that you're about ready to have your third child, which is fantastic. Congratulations. Thank you. How do you lead at home? John?

Jon Rahm 56:37 

Kelly leads I don't lead. I follow? Yeah, I'm

David Novak 56:41 

sure that's true. But as a father, so

Jon Rahm 56:42 

yeah, I think I do exactly what my my dad did, maybe I'm not the most vocal, even though I tried to tell them when I can be by example. Even now, like a lot of times when the physio comes home, it's gotten to the point where we're like, kepada, Nico, we want to come down and be there. So they, they see part of the process of what it takes for me to do what I do. Sometimes it'll be on the range with me, because they're allowed in there and severely right, and they'll see me practicing, so they can be a part of it. But I'll say the same thing. Same thing I said earlier, just honesty, communication. And then with the kids, the biggest word, I will use his presence. I'm already let's say, like many fathers in this planet that are not home, because they're working. And a lot of them need to be like working way more than that I do. But financially speaking, but if I'm gonna be doing all those things from being away, as often as I am, especially being live now. I think it'd be doing my kids a disservice if when I'm with them, I'm not present. Right. So being there with them being present and having fun and, and being their father is the best thing. That's why when we're home, we do have this schedule. Like when I wake I wake up early, I'll have the first hours of the day. So when they wake up, I'll get him out out of the cribs getting ready getting ready for school, get them food, or the waters breakfast, and then Kelly will come in, and maybe we dropped them off together or not. And then at night, I want to make sure I'm home for dinner time, bath time, and a little bit of playtime and then bedtime, right? So it's hard to say exactly how I lead. But if anything, by example, and honestly, honestly, I don't do what you need to do. Just like I found, that's kind of the best way I can put it.

David Novak 58:21 

You came from such humble beginnings. And now you are superstar you have well beyond what you ever imagined. And you're going to be raising kids in that kind of environment. What do you do to keep yourself grounded? And how do you see? What do you think you will be doing to keep your kids grounded?

Jon Rahm 58:42 

I don't know what I will be doing. But I think that we'll have to find a way to see the privilege that we'll have. Or I want to be able to create an environment where they understand that certain things shouldn't be taken for granted. And how lucky they truly are to be in the position they're in. Right. So whether that's getting to work early, understanding priorities, understanding that you need to work for certain things to happen in your life, to maybe volunteering where you know, people need the help, any kind of volunteering work, I think would do would do a great job in that sense. So I think perspective in what's going on and how this world is I think is going to be the most important thing. So I hope I can I can do that. And the best way I can show it is it's very easy for me to say and do it. So I know me and Kelly were making trips to, to those in volunteer work. So they see and understand because they're not going to have the upbringing, not that I had a bad childhood. I mean, I had a fantastic childhood. But they're not going to see those things that I knew as they're going to understand because I'm not going to experience it right. They won't have the same experience.

Speaker 1 59:48 

It's not their fault. No, no, exactly. Exactly. It's fine can help put you to work your

Jon Rahm 59:54 

work to be able to give them that and then you want to make sure they understand why this is so important. Right? It's It's so young right now that it's in right. All they need right now is all the love and support in the world. And I'm sure there'll be fine in that sense.

David Novak 1:00:06 

Last question here, what's one piece of advice you give to someone who really wants to be a better leader?

Jon Rahm 1:00:12 

It depends on your discipline, right? In my case, from what I've experienced, it's accountability. I understand that I deflect a lot on the golf course. And they say a lot of stupid things. And I try to put it outward. But trust me when I say that, internally, I'm fully aware of what I'm doing. And that is my fault. Right? So I think as a leader, and I'm taking this a little stream from the Navy Seal, Jocko willing, I feel like once you're the leader of your CEO, if you're the person in charge, and the decision maker, and something goes wrong, whether directly or indirectly, there's something that you could have done better. So accountability to own that. Not that he's never perfect, but that you could have done something better and try to learn from it. I think it's a very important virtue to have.

David Novak 1:00:59 

Fantastic. And, John, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to do this podcast, especially with the Masters week coming up. And you're a great person that I admire very, very much for all the traits and characteristics that you want to exude. You are honest, you are direct, you are the real deal. And I thank you for being my friend.

Jon Rahm 1:01:21 

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm honored to be part of this, this list of great leaders. I feel like I felt like it come up a little short compared to a lot of people but it's an honor to be here and, and to call you my friend as well, because you're the one doing the podcast, but I feel like you should be the one answering a lot of those questions.

David Novak 1:01:41 

Well, thank you very much, John.

Well, I can't wait to spend my weekend watching the masters and seeing if John rom can earn another green jacket. If you play golf, you know, your success depends on how you make decisions. That's true for leaders too. But it's not just about making decisions. As John reminds us, you got to own your decisions. Sometimes the level of commitment you bring to a decision matters just as much, if not more than the decision you make itself. John says he'd rather hit a shot 100% committed, even if it's not quite the right club, then get the club selection right but not be fully committed to the shot. When you own your decisions, you back them with resources and believe and accountability for whatever the outcomes are. That's a powerful lesson every great leader should know. And you want to incorporate it into your life this week. So here's an idea. Keep a decision log, document your decisions and make notes along the way. At the end of the week. Reflect on your list. Consider what you can do to own those decisions with even more support and belief and accountability. So do you want to know how leaders lead? Well, we learned today is the great leaders own their decisions. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Kevin Hockman, the CEO of Brinker International. That's the restaurant group that owns Chili's, and maj pianos.

The same lesson every time I've been on one of these turnarounds is make big changes to big things. And you'll get big results out of that.

And be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be