Welcome to Howlators Lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. And today's guest is Larry Bossidy, the former chairman and CEO of Honeywell and author of the best selling book Execution, the discipline of getting things done. Now if you ever had to pull together a business strategy that didn't work, or perhaps the plans to execute that strategy weren't effective and ultimately you failed, building the strategy is one thing and executing it successfully is another. But Larry knows what it takes to get things done. And in this conversation, you're going to hear how he leverages three things, just three things to make big things happen, people, strategy and operations. It was the process and discipline he put around those parts of the business that made his team successful and it's what you can focus on as a leader if you want to be successful too. So let's get right to it. Here's my conversation with my friend and soon to be yours, Larry Bossidy. I have to tell you, this is a great pleasure for me because I get to talk to Larry Bossidy this morning who is really one of my heroes in business and the way how you conduct your life. So Larry, thank you very much for being on this show. David, it's a pleasure to be here and particularly to be with you. Well let me tell you, it's always fun to start out and learn by learning about somebody's upbringing. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood? I was born in Pitsville, Massachusetts. I was one of three children. I had a twin brother and an older sister and my mother and father ran a small shoe store. So I worked in that shoe store as you do in family businesses when I was about 13 years old and thereafter. What did you learn in that, Larry? What did you learn by working in the shoe store? I learned how to deal with customers. I was a young boy at the time but my father made sure that I was out there trying to sell shoes and that it was a great learning experience for me. I didn't always love it but I look back upon it as one of the great experiences of my life. Do you have a hard lesson from that that you might remember? I do have one lesson that's comical but I do remember that we had an ethnic city. Everybody got along well but there was a Polish section, an Irish section, an Italian section. We had a welfare department at the time and we had some farmers and one Saturday morning a farmer came in a big fellow and my mom and I were in there. My mother worked in the store as well. He wanted some boots and I was sitting next to my mother waiting on another customer and my mother got the boots on the wrong feet. And when this fellow stood up I couldn't stop laughing. And the lesson I learned is my father threw me out of the store that day for laughing at this incident and didn't pay me. So it was something I remember. Well speaking of getting paid, I understand you were one heck of a baseball pitcher with a wicked left hander. You had a 95 mile an hour plus, you know it's folklore. It probably gets faster and faster every year. It does. But you actually got a signing bonus opportunity from a major league team of $ 40,000. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, there wasn't any draft in those days. In other words everybody was a free agent and I had a pretty good high school career. My mother and father had not gone to college. And so one Sunday morning a scout came from a certain team and that was at the door and said that he wanted to provide a bonus for me to sign with this team. And that it was a significant amount of money, $40,000. And my mother answered the door and she said, "You are not welcome here. This boy is going to college." And I was at the top of the stairs listening to this and you know people say, " Well this must have been a big heartbreak." I don't remember that it was. Instead of going to professional baseball and with the college and the rest is history. Well that's so interesting Larry because I did a little homework last night and I got out the calculator and did the inflation and that $40,000 sign is bonus today. It's worth $361,000. And you're saying in a modest upbringing you've got almost $400,000 and the money didn't even matter to you. How much do you think just being obedient and trusting in your parents and trusting in those that maybe lead you is important? The reason that I didn't complain about this is my mother and father were so supportive of everything that I did. I played a lot of sports as I just mentioned and I was doing other things in my life and I had terrific faith and confidence in them. And they thought that the thing for me to do was to go to college. I got in a good college. I got a scholarship and so when I look back in my life, if I could have been a good apparent as my parents were to me, I will have been declared successful. Well obviously they believed in education and put that above your athletic career which was quite substantial opportunity. Where'd you go to school and why? I went to school at Colgate University up in Hamilton, New York. I went there because I got a nice scholarship and I remember thinking back today what happens. I asked my father if I could go up and see it. He said, "Why? You got a scholarship there, didn't you?" So why do we have to go sit in? Anyway, I went to college, graduated in '57, was a wonderful experience while I was there and so I think my mother's decision was well born out in terms of the rest of my life. Well you got that scholarship playing baseball and I understand you went to the College World Series and you're in the Hall of Fame at Colgate and as an athlete. You know it's interesting to me Larry, I've known you for 15 years. We played golf together, you've been my partner and I've never heard you mention that to me. That tells me that one of your great strengths is humility. You don't talk about yourself that much. You know how important you think humility is to you and to leaders. There's two things that I think come to mind in that question. If you don't have humility you don't grow. I'm convinced that if you look every day to get better and you take the successes in the right way, in other words not believing that you're supernatural. I think you can continue to grow. And so one of the things I think about leadership, when I look at a person and evaluate them for leadership, one of the characteristics I look for is humility. Can they handle it? I always say that as you progress through a management system David, you either grow or you swell and the people who grow continue on to do great things and those who swelch well, they stop growing and they fall off the ladder. So to me humility is a significant characteristic which I look for in everyone that I evaluate. Larry, what was your first job out of college after you graduated from Colgate? I went to work for GE and that's connected in New York and I went to a research lab even though I was an economics major. I processed expense accounts and it wasn't one of the things of high intellectual need but I did it and I joined the financial management program and then I moved on to other assignments in GE and I went to the corporate audit staff where I stayed for five years and on and on. Well you were with GE for 34 years and you obviously liked it. What advice could you give to people who want to build a career within the same company? Well you know I think you'll look for a number of things in terms of the people you work with and it comes down to that in my mind. You know I always think that there's a lot of strategies and maybe we'll talk about that as we progress here but there's some emotional strategies. I want to be in a company that's authentic. They're not cheating and they're not spinning. They're telling it the way it is. I want to be around people who are self-aware. In other words they know who they are, they know what they're good at and they know where they need help. I also want to be around people who have self-mastery who are willing to change because the world is always in need of us making changes as we progress and finally as I said a minute ago as an emotional strategy I'm looking for humility. I found that in GE that the time it was progressive and growing quickly and had lots of job opportunity was fun and so to stay there for 34 years was easy. I loved it. So you never really had, did you ever have a pivot point early on in your career where you thought maybe I needed to shift jobs or shift companies? Yes I did. I mean I think we all do. I work for one boss who I didn't have great chemistry with and I didn't think I handled it in retrospect as well as I might have but you know in terms of the big general electric somebody noticed it and pulled me out of that role and I got into another one which I found much more satisfying. That's great. People leave generally because they don't get along with their boss and they don't feel appreciated. Have you found that true as you've looked at your career and people you've hired? I have. I think you know as one of the things as a leader you have to provide people with self-confidence and their growth potential so they can prosper. It isn't about you then. It's about how well you do developing them. If you can create an environment where they can grow and they can learn, they can have some fun and they get paid commensurately with their contribution then I think you fulfilled your objective. Larry I read something about millennials where 70 percent, a Gallup survey, 70 percent of millennials today are in jobs are actually looking for another job outside their company. Are you surprised by that? I am surprised but I also think that the employers haven't been as loyal to people as they were in my day and as a consequence employees are not as loyal to their employer as they once were. I think if they're dissatisfied it's a healthy thing to look for other places to go. But if you're satisfied and you're making progress some of them are looking for jobs as well and I don't get that. What advice do you give to somebody when really evaluating whether it is time to go? I ask him do you have some destiny in mind? You have some idea where you want to go. Do you think you have a chance to accomplish that here when you company you're at? Are you satisfied with the people you work with in terms of giving you that opportunity? If the answer to those questions is yes I don't think you should be looking around. If on the other hand you can't see yourself getting to where you want to go and you're unhappy then fine you can obviously take the opportunity to look elsewhere but be careful because the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. You stayed and enjoyed GE for 34 years. When you look back at that was the single biggest accomplishment that you felt greatest about. The last 15 years at GE I was associated with GE Capital and GE Capital was at the time was just growing and it had a consumer business. It started by financing light bulbs and refrigerators and then it went into the commercial and industrial area. The place was growing fast. We were all thrilled with what was happening. It's great to be in a growth environment where your company is succeeding and people have a smile on their face every day. Certainly my role in GE Capital is one of the highlights of my GE career. You work with a Titan in the industry and business, Jack Welch and you're a Titan. I'm seriously both CEOs of the year and all the accolades that you could ever get. How can two Titans stand to be with each other in the same room? It was kind of easy because we are both very competitive people. We wanted the best for GE at the time. Jack is known as a tough boss. I never thought he was. I thought he was reasonable. He had high standards but we both wanted to get to the top of the ladder and he came from modest means as I did too, as you know. The fact that we could find a way to bring GE to new heights was a great thrill . It's interesting. I hear you say the phrase, "I enjoyed working with him." You didn't say for him. Is that how you felt when you were? I did. I always felt the same way people who were so-called working for me. I thought they would say, "We work together. I happen to have the biggest hat in the room in some cases but nonetheless we work together." I like working with people, not in any way to suggest that they're subordinate to me. When you work with Jack Welch, were there a few things that you really learned from him that you've tried to keep in your repertoire? No question to me. He had a great concentration on quality people as the ingredient for success. He spent a lot of time and taught me to spend a lot of time on obtaining the right people and evaluating them and educating them and promoting them on the premise that if we don't get the great people in our company, we can't succeed. That was something I took with me for the rest of my career. Larry, you're known for being someone who challenges people. Tell me how you would conduct a staff meeting, for example. First of all, I'd send out an agenda. I don't like long meetings and I'd ask people to be prepared. Then when we would go through the agenda, I'd ask everyone to speak. I don't want the only the people who like to talk in staff meetings to speak. I want everybody to talk. I got as many opinions as I could. We would reach conclusion on most of the items. Some of them we might need more data and we would have to come back. I wanted something productive to happen with the staff meeting. I just didn't want to gather and disperse and talk. To that extent, I probably was demanding, but we got a lot done. I know along those lines, you're a big champion of productive conflict and sniffing out the conflict and getting it out in the table. How'd you do that? Because I was provocative and I made some comments that people had to push back on because they're off the wall. The more I got people engaged, the better thinking I got. There were arguments and some of them were high decibel arguments, but we got to the right answer, I thought, and that was the purpose of doing it. I've talked to people who've worked with you and enjoyed it. They said, "You know, Larry Bossy, he challenged the heck out of me, but he also challenged himself." How do you personally challenge yourself and continue to grow as a leader? I think that you keep in mind, first of all, where you've been, where you want to go and where you are in terms of this journey. I kept thinking that I had to get better. In other words, I'd sit down at the end of the year and I'd get some accolades, but I also knew myself some things I could do better. I made it a point in the next year to work on those things and I kept asking others, "Do you look at yourself in the same way? Do you understand what you did well and what you could do better? Are we getting better as a team? What are the indications? What are the proof that we're getting better as a team?" If I kept talking about that a lot, I think I convinced some people it was a reasonable way to go and we did make progress. Absolutely. You told me once, Larry, and this stuck with me from the day you told it to me, you said, "You know, David, you take the joy of the decision way, you take the joy of the job away." Talk about that. In order to be a leader, you got to like making decisions. I don't mean unilateral decisions, but the joy is to make a decision on something important, see it, implement it, and the company get better as a consequence. I love the idea that we could gather, we could discuss, and we could resolve. Everything good was going to happen. I like to think at the end of a staffing, we had smiles on our face because we made some progress. We decided some things. We found a way to move our company forward. You also, these great people you had, you knew that if you didn't give them the decision-making capability in their functional area, they weren't going to be happy too long. I thought it was important to define micromanagement. What is it meant? Here are the things that I want to be involved in. Here are the things that are yours. Let's make sure that we stand. If I call you for information, that's one thing. If I called down the organization beyond a couple of people and make a decision , that's the wrong thing. Being inquisitive and getting data is one thing, but making sure that decisions were in the right organizational level is also important. I tried to abide by that. Now, after 34 years of GE, you finally made that tough decision that you were going to go into another pond and play for a while. What really drove that decision to leave? I know you went on to be CEO of Allied Signals. What made you go to Allied Signals? I've been a vice chairman and a GE for seven years. I'm in the same age as Jack Welch. Everybody knows he was doing a terrific job. I decided I wanted to be a CEO. As a consequence, the Allied Signal opportunity came up. I liked what I saw there because it was broken. I thought, "Here's an opportunity to go in and see if I can repair something." What was the basis of my leaving? Now, you entered that job. What did you learn and what did you do maybe that somebody could learn from in terms of how you went from GE, go into a new job, new situation? What was your process and what did you learn? First thing I decided, never used the word GE. This is not how we did things at GE. Nobody likes to hear that. Secondly, I had my staff on the first day and I said, "You're all batting a thousand. I don't know what your reputation was with the last boss and I don't care. You're all batting a thousand. Let's define where we are. This company is not doing what it needs to be done. There's going to have to be some tough action taken. If this isn't for you, it's okay. Then I suggest that you go somewhere else. We are going to be ambitious and competitive in this business." That's the way I started. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Larry Bossy in just a moment. One of the keys to execution, one of the keys that's really important if you want to improve as a leader is you have to learn how to engage in constructive confrontation. A leader who does this exceptionally well and has done a great job on execution throughout his career is Ken Chenault, the former chairman and CEO of American Express. Fundamental in a crisis is people have to trust you because you're going to make decisions and you're going to take actions. Part of what you have to do in a crisis is you have to be decisive, very decisive, and you have to be compassionate. If you want to learn how to leverage constructive confrontation to get superior execution and the very best out of your team, go back and listen to Episode 68 with Ken Chen ault here on How Leaders Lead. You had great success. I know you had years of double digit EPS growth. The stock took off. It was amazing. Consistency is a hallmark of any great company and any great leader. What do you think really drives the consistency in performance? Keeping your eye on the basics. I think a lot of these organizations over-complicate the business situation. I believe that if you have the right strategy, you have the right people and you pay attention to operations, that's the basis for continuity. If you can do those three things in-depth correctly and have it cascade down through the organization and then have the stock price begin to rise with people who you deal with owning the stock or the stock options, then everybody gets momentum and there's a positive nature of things. One thing leads to another and you're on your way. There's nothing like being on a winning team. Success begets success. There's no question about that. Then you made this big decision to merge with Honeywell and you became a chairman and CEO of Honeywell. Talk a little bit about that decision. What would end your decision to merge with Honeywell and talk about the two businesses and how they work together? I thought we had at the time a good but narrow chemical business. We had a great, I thought, aerospace business, but we didn't have a lot in industrial. Industrial business and the history of Allied Signal was automotive. I never liked the automotive business. It was too volatile. You never got paid for what you delivered. I thought, so I needed an industrial linchpin in order to round out what I thought could be a great company. Honeywell was one of the ones we looked at. We talked together and Mike Bonsenori and I, we decided it was a good fit. He kept telling me Honeywell had the better brand name and I thought it did. We changed the brand name, but I moved the business to Morriston, New Jersey because I thought Minneapolis was somewhat sleepy between you and me. I know you've got some listeners out there in Minneapolis and so I say, I'm sorry. But anyway, New Jersey was competitive and feisty and I wanted to have that as one of the characters. So it's almost the personality of the company you want to have that competitiveness. I did. How do you drive a competitive fire within your organization? I think you make sure people know how much you care about things. I gave a lot of plot as you did for success and I was very candid about some things we didn't do well. But everybody knew I cared and I was involved every day in the important things of the business. If you can get that attitude around the company, then everybody becomes competitive. I see that you clearly showed people your heart, your commitment to them and then they followed you. Did you have any tricks up your sleeve in terms of selecting the right people? You selected a lot of people so did I and I made some mistakes. But after time, you begin to narrow the definition of what might be a good person to come to your company. So I wondered and look where they worked. Was that a competitive environment from whence they came? How important was the job that they had? And I would call their boss myself on key jobs to get a background check on who they are. So the harder I worked in qualifying the person, the better I did. And so I made some mistakes but we did get a cadre of people who were competitive and ambitious and fun and things began to perk. That's interesting. You would call the person's boss yourself and ask him about that instead of delegating it to HR or talk about that. I think that's a very key point. An HR person and their very valuable might take a liking to a person and might soft pedal some of the stuff that they heard that wasn't in the top of the line. So if I could find out myself directly, I didn't have anybody sifting through and I felt better at the end of the day. After you told me that, I've always listened to you and you've given me a lot of wisdom over the time, I made sure that I called every key hires boss because I found literally that nobody, they're not going to be as shit because they know you and their reputation inside. So you really got the skinny on the people. I did. And the more I got, the better I did in terms of quality. Now, Larry, you're a person who gives back and you've given back by really articulating your business beliefs and putting it down on paper and with books. And one of the best business books I ever read, in fact, I had my entire organization read, was execution. Talk about why you wrote the book, execution. You know, at the time I wrote it back in early 2000s and I thought that there was too much business discussion about strategy and a lot of things that I didn't think were central to making a good business. And I thought at the end of the day, the great companies had wonderful, repetitive execution. So I had known Ram Shuran for a long time who was co-author of the book and I knew a lot about two companies. He knew a little about a hundred companies or 200 maybe. So together, you know, we compared notes that we had and we tried to write a definitive book on what it took to continually be on the top of your game and get things done. Nice execution so hard for companies. Because it involves some hard decisions. As you certainly proved in the time of your at Yum, it involves doing some things that, for example, you might have to reduce the size of a workforce, which is very hard to do, particularly when the people did nothing wrong. It might mean cutting out a product line, which isn't working. It might mean changing a price on a customer who finds it difficult to accept a price increase. So it takes some courage and belief in conviction in order that underlines execution, I think. Then you have to have accountability. You've got to measure people on what they do. And the more accountability that you can promote in an organization combined with the other things I mentioned, the better chance you have to be a good executive. You also talk in that book about the importance of having process and discipline around what really matters. How do you go about that as a leader? I think you set up. In other words, we had a definitive strategic planning process. And I tried to reduce strategy to something that we could be sure to do. Every time I went to a business and a strategy session, I had a people session the same day. Do we have the people to execute the strategy without that, the debt and arrival? And secondly, as I said, we had an invasive people process where we evaluated the top two or 100 people in the company. And then we spent a lot of time in operations. Not only in the budget preparation, but on the execution of the budget. And the more time I spent on those three things, on the people, the strategy, and the operations, the better we got. It's one thing to have a strategy. If you don't put the structure around it so that you can execute it, you don't have a chance. You don't. So lots of people get proud of the big books that they produce on strategy. And they're basically debt and arrival because they have no concept of how they 're going to execute it. Now, you also wrote another book called confronting reality. Yeah. What was the basic premise in that book, Larry? I thought that we were coming upon a time where business world was changing quickly. And there are a lot of people that weren't facing up to what they might. For example, and I don't mean to be critical, but just as an example, I thought IBM got way behind the times. You know Xerox got way behind the time. You know Kodak got way behind the time. And I think the causes they weren't facing the reality is the marketplaces they were in. So the idea of the book was to just make people aware that you got to concentrate on where you are in this market segment. And are you thinking further enough ahead in order to continue to stay profitable? Now, like let's say take Honeywell. You know, how did you build awareness of the reality at a company like Honey well? I always tried to have meetings. They were real. In other words, I didn't want somebody coming in and give me a presentation. Didn't have the financial consequences of it. Didn't have the risk factors as well as the reward factors. Every conversation I wanted to be real. And if I can impress that upon people and they impressed it on their own people , then we got to where we wanted to go. Now, Larry, you've been chairman of the board. You've worked on boards. What really makes a director? I mean, is that just a superfluous role or is that a role that really should make a difference in a company? You know, I don't think it's just a superfluous role, but I do think it's a role that's misunderstood in a lot of companies. In other words, I think there's a need to define the difference between running the company and acting as an advisor to the company. There's some boards who get too deep involved in operations, I think, and there 's some boards that don't get involved at all in operations. So I always thought the board deserves to see the result of the people process. They deserve to see the strategic plan. They deserve to see the budgets. They deserve to see the progress against those budgets. The good ones encourage the CEO to bring issues of significance to the board for discussion. I think the boards have got better in the last 10 years. I don't think there's as good as they need to be. But there again, you're talking about the importance of bringing the reality forward and having those tough discussions. You know, a lot of our listeners want to be entrepreneurs, and you've seen a lot of entrepreneurs. And even though you're a big company, I know you take a lot of pride in really running it like an entrepreneur. What advice would you give somebody who wants to be an entrepreneur? I'm in private equity, so I see some entrepreneurial people. And, you know, the first thing is to do, they have an idea. Let's make sure you test the idea. If you look at new ventures projects brought before you, the revenues are always way too high. I always like to say, keep your revenue forecast down and then build around that. And if you happen to hit strike, that's right, you can add people, you can do whatever you want to do, but be realistic about your plan. And if you're doing it for two years and you're not going anyplace, face into it. Either change it or drop it or do something with it, but don't keep going down the same road that leads to nowhere. So if entrepreneurial people, I love their ideas, I love their enthusiasm, but they've got to be realistic in order for them to be successful. Now you mentioned you're in private equity. How are you spending your time these days in business? Well, I like private equity. We have eight or nine companies and I like to work with those companies and I work basically operationally with them in terms of what they're doing. I enjoy that. There's a company called World 50 where we bring in junior executives for seminars and I work with them. And then I do some non-profit stuff. So I'm not busy every day, but I'm busy enough. Yeah, that's great. Well, you're one of my favorites on SquawkBox. Why do you go on SquawkBox and what do you hope to accomplish? I like to go on SquawkBox because number one, I like the people that I associate with them there. And also, I'd like to be as direct as I can be in some subjects that I don't always hear on CNBC. So if I can add a little clarity or a little truthfulness or a little realism to some of the topics discussed, I've accomplished my mission. Can you remember what you think is one of the more provocative things you've ever set on the SquawkBox and how to go over? No, I can't remember one thing. I had the day can get into your ear, you know. And once in a while, one time at least the guy said, "Okay, that's enough." Do you remember the toughest question you ever got asked on television? No, I don't. We like to forget those, right? You like to ask the questions. Well, I'm going to throw you a softball. When you look at leaders today, who are a few leaders that are making it happen today that you might recommend people study or learn from? I don't know a lot of the leaders today. I do admire what's happening at Google in the sense that they continue to reinvent themselves. I love that. Amazon, I think, you know, you can like them or hate them, but they've done some miraculous things and they're going to be around for a while. So I like what they've done. But the characteristics are not different than when you and I were there in the sense that they're positive people, they're optimistic people, they're realistic people, they have passion, they have energy, they're competitive, and those kinds of things I think are the ingredients of what will not only was successful in our day, but will be successful tomorrow as well. Now, Larry, in the personal side, I know you've been married to Nancy, I think, for 61 years. You know, you have nine kids, you have 31 grandkids. I know Nancy and she's such an impressive person in her own right. How has she really been such a great life partner as it relates to getting through all the things that you had to do in business? You know, first of all, I knew her all my life. And she comes from Pittsfield as I did. I didn't date her all my life, but I knew her all my life. And so she knew who I was too. We didn't expect to have the family the size of what we did, but we, and she handled that with grace and she loves the kids still does and her grandkids. And she took my achievements, accomplishments with a grain of salt. In other words, she was proud, but she never boasted. She never thought, you know, that separated me from the rest of the people, if you will. So she had a great headset on that. She kept me thinking straight on things that I needed to think straight about. So it was a gift. I mean, I have a lifelong partner that I've been so fortunate to have. And she's been a big part of my success. And Larry, I know you're a man of great faith. You know, how is that your faith? How's that guided your life? You know, it's always been a linchpin for me. In other words, in difficult times, I could always lean on my faith for some support and some help. And I'm not a proselytizer. I don't go around talking to people about it, but privately, it's been an important asset to me. The fact that I could go back and rely on some things and ask for some guidance on some things has been an enormous help to me. So I would encourage young people in business to embrace some faith. It doesn't matter which one, but embrace some faith because it can be a wonderful ally to you as you progress. You are a great man. I mean, you know, you meet people and you know greatness when you see it. You're a great man. I want to thank you for the impact you've had in my life and the impact on so many other people. And I want to thank you for sharing the wisdom that you 've shared in this brief time that we've had together. Well, thank you. You've been very kind and I always love talking with you. I wish you'd put a little bit better, bud. We're going to win it next year. Thank you, David. Okay, buddy. Thanks. Well, there's so many great lessons to pull from that conversation with Larry. But there was a particular distinction he talked about that I want to highlight . Larry always feels people work with him, not for him. And if we want to get big things done as a leader, that's a mental shift we need to make as well. I'd like to give you a little coaching to help you develop as a leader. This week, as a part of your weekly personal development plan, here's what I want you to do. Be mindful of the language you use when you're talking to your team. Are you using I and me language or are you using us and we language? I want you to pay special attention to the words you're using this week, because if you want to get things done, your team needs to feel like they work with you, not for you. This simple shift will make all the difference and will have your team leaning in, wanting to tackle problems together. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know how to leverage people, strategy, and operations to get things done. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple in each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. I'll see you next week. [silence] [silence]