David Novak 0:03 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Elaine stock, the CEO of ServiceMaster. There's an old adage, I'm sure you've heard, the only way to gain control is to give up control. And if you've ever run a business or lead a team, you know how true that statement is. And you also know how hard it can be to actually give up control. But if we want our companies to grow, we have to get comfortable trusting our partners and team members, and allowing them to do their part and building the business. What you're going to hear in this episode is how Elaine has learned to give up control while running a franchise system where her company owns the brands. And the franchisees run and own their independent businesses. But I guarantee you one thing, whether you're struggling to give up control running a large business with franchisees, or simply running a small team, I know there's a lot to learn from today's episode. Here's the thing, the great leaders I know are comfortable giving up control. It's the only way to get people inspired and grow a business. Let's get right to it. Here's my conversation with my friend, and soon to be yours, Elaine stock

you don't like I can't wait to get into how you go about leading. But first, tell us a little bit about ServiceMaster. What are you up to these days.

Elane Stock 1:43 

ServiceMaster is a great company. It's a 92 year old company. And it's I like to call it a new 92 year old company because about a year ago, we were carved out of a bigger public company and became a standalone business. And we're the leader in home services. We're also the leader in commercial services in terms of providing restoration services or cleaning services across a variety of different customers and consumers. So it's a great business with some great brands, including ServiceMaster, restore ServiceMaster, clean Two Men and a Truck and Merry Maids. So we're excited to be up and running on our own and being able to serve customers in their times of need.

David Novak 2:17 

Les when we first met, you were in the midst of a distinguished career at Kimberly Clark, and you'd risen to the Group President level, you're running their international business. And I've just written a new book called take charge of you, you know how self coaching can transform your life and career. And I like to get into how people think, tell us how you self coached to make your move from Kimberly Clark to become the CEO of ServiceMaster.

Elane Stock 2:42 

Well, actually, I took a different path. It wasn't a direct move. I went from Kimberly Clark had a terrific career there and a lot of fun and had joined the young brands board, as you know, as a part of that when I was still with Kimberly Clark leading their international business. And I actually decided it was time to take some Meeta. My kids were getting older and I and I wanted to make sure that I had some time with them before that after school. And I really enjoyed the board work. So I actually took a couple of years and served on public company boards. As a part of that I'd gotten to know some folks in the private equity world with work capital. And they approached me with the idea of joining ServiceMaster brands is the CEO. And at first I told him no. And they came back again. And the second time I told him no. And then the third time, it was as they described the opportunity to me even more, it seemed like something that was a too good to pass up. It's just such a hidden gem within the services world. And an opportunity to really start fresh in terms of leading a team and building a new culture and setting a vision and direction for growth that it was just too exciting to pass up.

David Novak 3:45 

That's always a blast when you can go into the situation and treat it like a startup, which seems to be your approach here. So this is really your first CEO job. How did you go about establishing yourself as the new leader and tell us how you spent your first 200 days,

Elane Stock 4:00 

I spent a lot of it talking to customers and franchisees, we are a franchise business. And it's important to make sure that those franchise owners are being heard and that I understand what what their needs are. They're critical partners in terms of our success in the marketplace. And I wanted to make sure that we had a a good understanding of what their needs were and what you know what had gone well in the past and I also got an earful in terms of what hadn't gotten well in the past. So that was a really important piece of it. And then I also spent time standing at my team, you know, we had it we were headed in a whole new direction in terms of being a growth company in terms of being really focused on franchisee success, and really wanted to up our game. So that took some changes in my team. It took some opportunities for growth for others on my team. So that was a big piece of it. And then the third thing was what you've already mentioned in terms of really building a culture, how do you take a 92 year old company and make it feel new and make that entrepreneurial culture be one that that's really going to drive the business for the future?

David Novak 4:59 

Well, how do you He's Adaline.

Elane Stock 5:00 

Well, I called my good friend David Novak, you helped us with that. David, you were so kind to work with us with our top 30 folks and talk about what it was like when you started the yum brands or when it was tricon when it spun out from PepsiCo, so, so that was a good lesson for us and a great example of how to make that work. But it was about instilling vision and dreams and having folks articulate what they wanted the company to be when it grew up as a way to help them to get excited about the role that they could play in it.

David Novak 5:28 

You mentioned that you worked through a nationwide group of franchisees and you went out, you listened to him? What was the state of the relationship the company had with the franchisees, when you when you first came on board? It was rough.

Elane Stock 5:41 

Like I say, it's a 92 year old company, it's been franchise for most of those years. But it had been owned by a publicly traded company that hadn't had a lot of experience in franchising, they'd spent more focus on their company owned operations. And so really hadn't had that franchise touch or that understanding of what the owner mentality would be for the franchisee. So it was rough. Like I say, I got an earful as I went around and talked to folks and took a lot of notes about what the things were that, that were broken in their minds where the investments hadn't happened, that they felt that they should. But even more so where the trust was broken, it's a company that's got a deep culture and a very high standard of integrity and values. And you've got to be able to look across the table and feel like the person's the person is working with you, not against you. And that was a feeling they hadn't had for a long time, our number one priority was reestablishing that trust,

David Novak 6:33 

what would be one or two things that you did to really show the franchisees that it was going to be a new day and that you truly trusted them and that they could be partners with you,

Elane Stock 6:42 

David, two things come to mind. One is the communication part of it is listening, and talking and being willing to say what we were going to do and what we weren't going to do, and having an open honest conversation to understand the concerns and the needs and, and being able to have that dialogue. The second was, it's not a secret here is do what you say you're gonna do. So I was very clear about here are the things that we're going to do in the first year and then gave them updates on a quarterly basis on our progress against those. So I think those two things in particular really helped to reestablish some of that trust and belief that, that we were going to be working together as opposed to against each other,

David Novak 7:18 

you know, learn from my experience, it takes a rare breed for someone to be able to work effectively with franchisees because you don't really own the physical assets themselves. You don't really own the customers, you have to work through the franchisee who has that direct contact with the customer. And, and you know, so many CEOs that I talked to, you know, they love having 100% control of everything, you know, was it hard for you to be able to accept that you didn't have that control and that you had to work through that intermediary?

Elane Stock 7:49 

No, it wasn't I actually loved it. That was one of the big appeals of the company. And the job was I love talking to owners. These are folks whose lives and their livelihoods are the work that they do every day and the way that they think about their businesses and how invested they are in it. The that passion is really hard to match with somebody that's, you know, working for the man and these folks that are paying their mortgages and sending their kids through school and creating opportunities for their community and people in their communities. That passion and desire and commitment. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. Yeah, I always

David Novak 8:23 

felt that way too. When I was working with the KFC, Taco Bell and pizza franchisees, they, they have an innate gut instinct about what's right. And they care about the business. And if you can tap into that, that gives you a lot more know how, how do you spread the know how that you pick up from franchisees from one part of the country to the other,

Elane Stock 8:41 

it's still a work in process. You know, we here at our in our franchise Support Center do have a set of folks who were tasked with that to try to understand what the best practices are and to develop the right training programs, the right capability programs, the right technology to support those pieces. It's still a work in process, though, right? Where we're a year along on the journey, and we're getting better every day. But we've still got a ways to go.

David Novak 9:03 

You know, I saw where you recently acquired Two Men and a Truck, which I love that brand name. I didn't see those drugs. I think it's great. You know, I always love to get in how a leader thinks about making a big decision like that. Tell us your thought process. And you know, why did you buy this company

Elane Stock 9:18 

and two men in a truck is a fantastic company. It was founded by a woman Mary Ellen sheets and there really were two men in a truck her two college age sons and come home for the summer. And she insisted that they needed to have a way of making their spending money. So they took their truck and started moving folks and And what she found was once they went back to college, the phone kept ringing. So she had it they had built up a customer base and set her up in a reputation that that she felt like she could make a business out and she's developed a terrific business and we had a wonderful opportunity to get to know some of the members of the family and at the time that was right for them to make sure that we could pass it off to hands that they could trust and you know making the decision about it. First of all, it has to be on strategy. It fits with our overall push to be Leaders in residential and commercial services in franchise fashion. They're a franchised business overall, they are the leader in the moving space. And that's what we look for. More importantly, though, is we look for do they have strong customer service and culture around customer service? Do they have a strong brand and brand name? And do they have a real care and value for their people, you know, my belief is you can fix the technology, you can fix the marketing, you can fix lots of other things. But if you've got a company that's broken, in terms of its core around the customer, the brand and the people, that's really hard to fix, so and they checked all of those boxes, with lots of great experiences and a great franchise network. So it became a pretty easy decision for us to bring them into the fold.

David Novak 10:46 

You know, I read a little bit about the deal you made. And I noticed that you actually made donations to two of their charities as part of the deal. Sometimes little things like that you do you throw into the pot, kind of make the deal happen. Tell us about that. Was that a big thing? Or a little thing? Or was it just something that said, you were simpatico or tell us about why you did that?

Elane Stock 11:09 

Well, we actually did that after the deal was finalized. So that wasn't part of the consideration for the deal set. But it was so aligned with the values that we have as ServiceMaster brands, one of our core values is caring about our people and caring about our communities, and also very aligned with two men in a truck, they've been very involved in their communities, and one of the charities in particular have been one that they'd been supporting across their franchise network for many years. So so it was a way for us to say thank you, to the owners for entrusting us with this great business, but also a way for us to indicate to the people to the team members that those were values that we had ServiceMaster held to and that we were going to continue that,

David Novak 11:48 

you know, I think I have this right, but you have, I think six brands in your portfolio, how do you go about allocating your time?

Elane Stock 11:55 

Well, you know, David, I wish there were a method to the madness. You know, obviously, I spend more time on the bigger brands, but it's really about flowing to where the need is, you know, I'm fortunate to have great brand leaders, and they're also very transparent in terms of when they need to help them when they don't need help. So part of what I try to do is to have a regular rhythm of processes that, you know, kind of keeps the pulse of the business, whether it's the monthly check ins on the financial results and the progress on key initiatives, but then also to have you know, some time set aside with each of the leaders on an ongoing basis where they can, you know, raise hot topics or issues or we can talk about some of the more strategic ones that may take, you know, a period of months for for the right course of action to evolve. So I try not to whipsaw between things. And I try to make sure that we've got a standard cadence for those touch points. But to use that as the way to engage on both the hot topics that are coming up, but also the proactive engagement on the more strategic ones,

David Novak 12:54 

when you have a portfolio with with that many brands, there's obviously going to be some that are really growing into some that are maybe struggling a little bit. And you're a really terrific strategic thinker. And you know, you act on that strategy. What do you think are the keys to really fueling a growth brand? What do you do when you have that growth brand? How do you put the accelerator down even more,

Elane Stock 13:16 

you know, that's one of the things that was attractive about ServiceMaster brands is that we have so many growth opportunities across to all of our brands, truthfully, you know, I worked in consulting for many years, and sometimes some of my clients would be, you know, scratching the bottom of the barrel to try to find out ways to grow or wouldn't have to, you know, make a new acquisition into a new segment or industry in order to find growth, we've actually got more opportunities than we can possibly digest in any particular time. So it's more about being selective about those growth opportunities. And what we're really looking for, what are the things that are going to build the business for the future, I don't want a particular growth opportunity that's only going to deliver me some EBITDA or for that matter, only deliver me some system wide sales without having a real benefit for the owners. It's got to be good for the owners as well as for us, and being able to sort those and prioritize those based on the value of steak. But even more importantly, the capabilities that we can bring to it. We don't

David Novak 14:13 

like it when it happens. But you know, every now and then we do have a brand that goes arrived struggling? What have you learned about what it takes to take a struggling brand and pull it out of the ditch and get it going? Again,

Elane Stock 14:26 

it's a lot about leadership. Right? As you know, you're gonna have to have folks that are excited about the future and can really set a dream and a path for what the vision of that business must be. And then it's about making hard choices, right? Sometimes the reason why brands struggle is because they haven't made the hard choices along the way. I learned pretty early in my career that hard choices are a little bit like soft cheese, they get stinkier the longer that you let him set so you're better off making those hard choices early so that you can focus on those things that are going to that are really going to feel the business and drive the growth.

David Novak 14:58 

You're looking back You know, could you tell us a story about a hard choice that you've had to make on a brand or or particular situation?

Elane Stock 15:07 

Yeah, I mean, there's a, some of them have been successful. And some of them haven't one of the ones that was not particularly successful, I'll tell you a story about that. It's when I was at Kimberly Clark, we actually had an opportunity to launch some innovation in one of our personal care products. And it was, you know, it, it tested really well. And it piloted really well, we were we were just over the moon in terms of what we thought that the opportunity would be, and really had pinned it in for a big part of our growth path for the next few years. And as a result, but in you know, a big chunk of capital investment in order to try and to help it to succeed in that way. The thing that that was interesting about it, though, is even though it's was a better product with a better customer experience, from all of the research that we did, and certainly in our own minds, it required changing consumer behavior. And what we found after we put a lot of money in the ground on this was it consumers weren't that anxious to change their behavior. So it actually ended up being a big bust. And, you know, it really taught me that, if you think you can influence consumers, you're probably fooling yourself, you kind of have to let the consumer lead you rather than trying to lead the consumer. So again, that was going to the consumer and understanding where they're headed, or the customer and where they're headed, and what their needs are, from their perspective is the place to start in terms of thinking about the growth opportunities.

David Novak 16:27 

Yeah, it's, it's really tough, because so many times we get excited about an idea, from our perspective, how do you go about making sure that you've flipped the switch, and you really get inside of the customers heads versus like, Hey, I'm Elaine stock, I have this great idea. I know, it's gonna be super

Elane Stock 16:45 

well, you know, when I was at Kimberly Clark, a consumer oriented businesses, I did lots of consumer home visits. And I always wanted to be careful not to take a particular anecdote and extrapolate it to a broader system. So you need to do it with some some more extensive quantitative research, but being able to see the consumers and how they use the products and how they think about it, and what they worry about, you know, if you're talking to a mom in Vietnam, who's got three kids running around, of which two are in diapers, and you're seeing how she's living with it, and how she's interacting with her kids, and what other challenges she's got in terms of dinner, or job, or, you know, other interactions, those are all pieces that really helps to frame what that consumer experience is and where they're coming from. Because any particular service or product we might offer a consumer is part of a, you know, a much bigger tapestry of what's going on in their lives in that particular moment in day. So that's a piece that I always tried to stay close to understanding what's going on with the consumers,

David Novak 17:42 

how have you brought that kind of consumer centric thinking into ServiceMaster,

Elane Stock 17:46 

again, still a work in process, we have done a lot of work in terms of understanding our customer journeys, and how they make the decisions and what's going on in their minds around around the piece of it. But again, this is where our owners have such a rich base of knowledge, because they're interacting with the customer every day, and being able to talk to the owners about what they're seeing from the customers is a really easy seven.

David Novak 18:08 

So you know, when you think about that customer journey, you know, really understanding how they make the decision. Is there been any thing that you've done in your career where it's helped you get to that point the most? You know, because all of us, we've got to we got to really understand why customers are acting the way they do and why they're picking certain brands? Or what's keeping them from coming to us? Or do you have any secret sauce in that area, besides, you know, going into the home,

Elane Stock 18:37 

if only I did now I you know, and this is also a place, David, where I do think there's a role for the, you know, try things and fail fast and see what works. I remember I was visiting with them. Bomb Kim, who was the CEO of cooping. And Kupang is the you know, the Amazon in Korea, and really took a strong position to own mobile online with their offering. And I remember talking with him and touring with him. And he said about, there are two types of doors, there are the doors that when you walk through them, you can if you like what you see, you can stay if you don't like what you see, you can turn around and go back through the door. And then there are other doors where you walk through them and they slam shut behind you and they're locked and you can't go back through the door. And most doors are two way doors, most of them don't slam shut and lock. And so his perspective was just try some stuff and see how it works and make the decision quickly about whether what you see on the other side of the door is working or not. And go back through it if you need to, you know, that's always really stuck with me in terms of how to think about what some of the opportunities might be and how to explore some of these pieces because you can't figure it out sitting in your office for sure.

David Novak 19:47 

That is absolutely right. You now are in charge of a company that's been around for 92 years. And so your brands have been established for a long time. How of us use technology due to impact the business?

Elane Stock 20:01 

Well, we're continuing to grow that our technology is particularly focused on how do we improve the customer experience? And how do we improve the franchisee experience. And as a new company with a carve out, we're setting up all brand new systems as a part of that. So, but it gives us a great opportunity to really use more of a white sheet of paper to try and understand what those opportunities can be. And it's different for our our b2c customers versus our b2b customers. So really getting underneath those customer journey aspects, and how can technology can enable them is going to be a critical piece of our path going

David Novak 20:34 

forward. Now I know you're really in the midst of establishing your leadership and getting this company moving the way you know, it can go. And I know you're a big believer in innovation, how have you instill that kind of thinking in your company? And and what are you most proud of that you've seen happen on that front? Since you came on board?

Elane Stock 20:56 

David, your expectations for my first year are quite high, I have to admit,

David Novak 21:01 

well, I know you're a mover and shaker. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna throw you a bunch of little softballs here.

Elane Stock 21:08 

That's I guess that's the truth. You know, on the innovation side, this is again, where I think there's a real benefit to having 2000 owners across the country, who are all all doing slightly different things in different places. I'm a big believer, I don't know who was that said, the quote that, you know, the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed. I really love the you know, adapt and adopt and find the opportunities within our franchisees that they're finding that are going to be fast forward and help us to innovate against some of those pieces. And that's a process that we're still in, as we think through them.

David Novak 21:41 

I'm gonna throw you a little softball here that okay, I've been asked you all these tough ones here. Yeah. What have you enjoyed most about being CEO,

Elane Stock 21:48 

and putting together the team and having a chance to see it come to life in a way that is what they're creating, we've set up largely a new whole new team here in the franchise Support Center, we with the combination of carving out from the publicly traded company moving the headquarters really reestablishing a pivot to being more franchise focused, we've, we've hired over 100 new people in the past six months, and it's been a really exciting time to see those folks with their bright eyed and bushy tails and their excitement, they're, they're buying into the dream of the what the business can be. And also having them helped to create what the culture is that we want to take going forward. So that's been really exciting for me,

David Novak 22:31 

you know, you think about hiring those 100 people, what would be the two traits that you would hope each one of them would have,

Elane Stock 22:39 

I would hope that they would have passion, we want our company to stand for more than just the work that we do. And I want everybody to feel like they're doing more than just the job they've been assigned. I want them to have real passion for our mission of making everyday heroes more heroic, and for, you know what we're doing it to support our franchisees. So that's a big piece of it. The second is I want them to be willing to adjust and change and grow in the role. You know, I'm a big believer that if you hire an eight sided peg for an eight sided hole, then when the needs of the business change, and you need a round peg, you're kind of stuck, right? So I need folks who are willing to shave off certain corners or to add on corners based on the opportunities that are available for the business and where it how they want to grow and develop as a person.

David Novak 23:24 

You know, you just mentioned your mission. Talk a little bit about that, and why you think it's powerful? Well,

Elane Stock 23:29 

I think, again, it's making everyday heroes more heroic is our mission. And the way we think about that is when I think about the services that each of our brands provide, whether it's in ServiceMaster, restore, if a family's had a fire and our need to get their home, mitigated and repaired. If it's someone who's in the process of moving through two men in a truck and is moving from an apartment to their first home as a new couple, for example. I mean, these are all such opportunities, or if it's someone that's returning back to the workplace, and wants to have a safe, clean workplace environment with our ServiceMaster Clean, our frontline employees are providing those experiences for the consumer and the customer. And that's really important. And those folks are so under appreciated so often. And I think for us to really focus in on those frontline heroes and those folks that are delivering that value in that experience for that customer really helps me to get excited about what we do. It also relates to our owners, as I said, our owners are creating terrific opportunities for growth and development among their people. And they're making their communities better. And they're heroes in our eyes as well. So that's a way for us who you know, maybe a couple of steps removed from that customer overall, to really think about what what we're doing is to support those everyday heroes to be more heroic.

David Novak 24:44 

How important do you think it is for a company to have a noble cause like that?

Elane Stock 24:49 

I wouldn't want to work for one that didn't I don't know about you, David. I mean, yeah, I think it's this is a this is a time and a place where we've gotten to hang on to something that's more than just the paycheck at the end of the day, right. It's got that'd be something that that we feel like we've got impact. And particularly in this kind of labor environment where folks have so many opportunities to work and across different companies, it's got to be a place where folks feel like they're valued, but also that the impact that they're having it goes beyond just, you know, the particular spreadsheet they may have done or the setup customer calls that they answered.

David Novak 25:25 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Elaine stock in just a moment. What we're talking about here is teamwork and how to unleash the potential in your business. Another leader who does this exceptionally well, is Steve Kerr, the head coach of the Golden State Warriors,

Speaker 1 25:40 

you just have to remind people of each other's good qualities and to be reminded of each player's value to the group.

David Novak 25:49 

So if you want to learn even more about how to unlock the power of your team, go back and listen to episode 62. Here on how leaders lead.

The other thing I wanted to ask you about being CEO is that, you know, when you move into that seat, it's a different experience. And what have you realized about being CEO that you can only realize once you have the job,

Elane Stock 26:17 

I've always had a view that the power of the team is more than the power of any individual. And so I've always tried to surround myself with folks who bring different experiences and perspectives. And as a CEO, I think it's even more important, right? If everybody in the room is agreeing with me, then then I don't need to be in the room for sure. And I think it says CEO, making sure you've got those folks who've got different experiences, but also that you're creating the conditions where they're willing to challenge and to speak up for when they think that you're wrong. I think that's a critical piece that as I've become CEO has become even more apparent to me.

David Novak 26:52 

Now I want to take you back a lane to your upbringing. Tell us about it. And I'd love to hear a story from your childhood days that you think really impacted the way how you go about leaving today.

Elane Stock 27:03 

David, I grew up in rural Illinois, as I tell people there was a cornfield on one side soybean field on the other, lots of folks would know what that looks like. And that was certainly my environment. And I was the youngest of five kids. And my family, you know, was a very blue collar family and one that I had strong family values and strong community values and but didn't put up with a lot of guff from the children, for sure. So that was a big part of my upbringing. And you know, those things, there were so many lessons along the way on that I can remember, for example, I brought home a pretty good report card one day and was sitting on my dad's lap to show it to him. And he, you know, kind of gave me a nice pat on the back. But then he said, You know what, this is great. But it really doesn't count for anything unless you use it for something good. And you know, that stuck with me that it's not about what you can demonstrate in terms of accomplishments, it's more about what you can do that's actually going to have an impact and do something good. The other thing I would say is, you know, I went to a really small, rural high school, right, as you might expect, so I get on the bus every morning for 30 minutes and get to my high school, my graduating class, I think had 87 People of which 82 I grew up with in kindergarten. So it's hard to hide in those kinds of environments. Those people know you better than you know yourself. When you have that kind of situation, you pretty quickly learn that you can't fake it, right? You've got to be who you are. And you got to be an authentic person, because they'll call you out if you're not. So that was a big piece of the upbringing, too.

David Novak 28:31 

It sounds like the Midwestern values were really front and center in your upbringing. I love that phrase. You know, you just couldn't give people a lot of guff, you know, growing up in Kansas City, Missouri, that was a phrase we would use to I know exactly what you mean by golf? You know, who believed in you, Elaine? More than you might have even believed in yourself?

Elane Stock 28:54 

That's a good question, David. I've been so fortunate to have so many people. I remember we did an exercise once at a at a leadership retreat where they had us write down on little post, it's who took a chance on you. So you'd write on a post it somebody that had taken a chance on you, I really felt such a high level of gratitude because I must have filled out 20 or 30 of those posted I just recently like I've been really fortunate in terms of people that were willing to take a chance on me that that were willing to put their own reputations on the line or business result on the line or you know, in giving me an opportunity to grow and it's something that I've tried to pay it forward with other folks as well. But there's so many folks it was I remember when I was in college, I went to the University of Illinois and my guidance counselor of all people said, hey, I want you to go interview for this job because, you know, I was trying to pay my way through school. She said, I know a job that you should go interview with. And I'm like, Okay, I had a pair of safety shoes from a previous summer job. I'm like, should I wear my safety shoes? I didn't have any idea what the what the job was. So I was trying to figure out what the right attire was for this job interview. And she'd actually recommended me to be an assistant to the president of the University of Illinois, which Jenna blew my mind when I got the address and saw where that was. And, you know, she put her own reputation on the line in order to make that that recommendation, and I was fortunate to get the position and had a terrific opportunity to work closely with the President, his family for the for a year and a half. And, you know, took me completely outside my comfort zone in terms of the types of things I was doing the types of people I was meeting, in really a delightful experience. And, you know, those kinds of opportunities, I've been fortunate to have him come my way and many points in my career.

David Novak 30:36 

I know you started your career at McKinsey, what's the biggest value you you got from starting out in that consulting role,

Elane Stock 30:45 

it's a great company in a great environment, I didn't really know what I wanted to be when I grew up, I still don't know what I want to be when I grew up. And consulting is a terrific place for that. Because you can see lots of different companies and work with lots of different people. And I particularly enjoyed having the opportunity to work with lots of different companies and seeing their leadership work and seeing some good things and some bad things along the way. You know, I can remember I was fortunate to have an opportunity to work early in my career with Home Depot here in Atlanta, back in the Arthur Blank, and Bernie Marcus days, and, you know, seeing them work together in their partnership, but also seeing how they empowered store managers, how they really valued the people, that was something that stuck with me, also, you know, I remember distinctly Arthur telling me that, you know, if the values don't match, nothing else matters. And that's always stuck with me, too, is how to think through that. But I also saw companies that I wouldn't have wanted to replicate, you know, I kind of have pretty quickly got a sense that if the presentation or the video looks really glitzy, you're probably got a problem underneath it somewhere that to me, that's the smoke for potential fire. So trying to make sure that you're focusing in on the substance and what's really working as a piece that, that I saw different levels and in different ways with different clients,

David Novak 32:00 

you know, when you think about your career and where you've been, and as you just mentioned, you know, you're the future is what you're really excited about, and you don't know where it's gonna take you. But was there a catalyst moment? That really accelerated your career?

Elane Stock 32:16 

Yeah, I would say and actually, it was when I was with McKinsey in Dublin, Ireland. So I was in the Dublin office for a while, and I had only been there, my family had moved over, We'd only been there, I don't know, three or four months. And the managing partner, the Dublin office, who had been a big part of my desire to move over there, it was a guy that I'd worked with before and really wanted to work with again, he got was fortunate to get an opportunity outside of McKinsey. So he went to go be CFO of a Dublin based company. And so we were looking around our Managing Partner of the firm at the time, he and Davis was kind of looking around to see, well, who's going to be the managing director for the Dublin office. And you know, he kind of looked to the left to me and kind of look to the right of me and look behind me and underneath me and and finally, I must offered it to 10 people I know I'm sure he didn't. But finally he kind of approached me and said, hey, you know, I know you haven't been here very long, but would you be interested in leading the office. And so then I looked kind of to the left to him and to the right of him and you know, above him and below him to see if I could find somebody else to do it instead of me because I really loved client service. I really love serving clients and felt like being the Managing Director for the Office would eat into that some, despite his misgivings and my misgivings. So we decided to go forward with it. And I became the Managing Director for the Office. And I have to say, it was like a light bulb went off, for me, the opportunity to really lead the team to you know, have a finger on the pulse of the business. Most importantly, to move from in consulting, I found I was starting all of my sentences saying you should go do this. And as leader of the office, I was starting my sentences saying, We will do this, we can do this, we are doing this. And that was really exciting to me and really put the bug in to me for for getting a real job, as I call it for, you know, leading PNLs as opposed to being a consultant.

David Novak 34:06 

So lay now that you're at the top, how to use self coaching, to drive higher personal performance.

Elane Stock 34:13 

It's one that I think a lot about every day. And I think about it in the context of having opportunities to have people around me that are smarter than I am. I really do believe that finding folks who bring different aspects and who can challenge me and challenge my thinking is a part of what what I want to do every day. So it's a lot about that. I particularly like to make sure that that's a broad base of folks, not just in the office, but also in the community. I'd love to do things with youth groups and with nonprofits and other areas so that I can have a chance to just have people who have different perspectives, continue to frame my mind on on different topics and helped me to think about things in different kinds of ways. So I'm a big absorber from other people and like to make sure that I'm around folks with different backgrounds and different Got that challenge me along the day?

David Novak 35:02 

So you took this time off? And you had what you called me time? How long did it take you? With this v time before you were bored? Or did you get bored? Or what was that like to go from, you know, traveling around the world go into all these different countries? And then all that I know you have two kids. And what was it like when you you had that me time?

Elane Stock 35:25 

Well, it was the second time I'd done that I'd actually when I was with McKinsey, I took three years off when my kids were small. And you know, this is one of the things that I tell folks is you've got to do what's what's right for you and your family at any particular time. And because if you're not, then it's not going to hold together. And given the situation, it was the right thing for me and my family, for me to take some time off early in my career. And then later in my career, and I tried not to make those decisions trying to with the context of what's that going to mean for the future you've got, it's a little bit of the career mindfulness, you got to do what's right for you at the time, it was a great experience both times for me. In both instances, they taught me that I'm, you know, a happier person and a better mother, when I do have some work, it was good to take that time. But I also need to have the opportunity to work and around other folks and have the daily sales or the accountability at the end of the month. Those are parts of what gets me excited to as well as the people that I'm working with. So that was a part of it. You know, and I don't know that I got bored either time, I think it was more about the opportunities that came my way that at that moment where the right opportunities for me to take just like the ServiceMaster, one that we talked about earlier,

David Novak 36:36 

he's seemed to have such a high sense of self awareness in what you need at a specific time. Is that something that you've always had? Or is that something that you've had to cultivate? And what advice could you give to people in terms of how to get the self awareness to figure out where they are at that point in time

Elane Stock 36:54 

in this is when I think, you know, I think my family and the upbringing really helped on on that piece of it that to be true to yourself, and be able to look yourself in the mirror, those were common phrases in my household for sure. I think probably this was also some of the advice that I got when I joined McKinsey. And McKinsey is one of those places, like many companies where you could work 24 hours a day, every day and still feel like there was more work to do for sure. Particularly in a client service business where the expectations are quite high. But you can't do that, right? That's not a sustainable program. I got coaching pretty early on from my partners at McKinsey about, you know, the importance of setting priorities to the importance of really thinking about what's going to make a difference and the importance of you know, treating your personal and family needs at the same level that you would grow their business needs. I when I at one point in McKinsey, I remember, I would schedule in, like a client meeting I had my assistant had special coding for my client meetings, and I talked with her about for my daughter's play at school is to schedule it in as a client meeting. And so I would, I would take those things that were important to me personally and say they're just as important as clients are. And we need to make sure that we've got that balance going forward.

David Novak 38:13 

This has been a lot of fun catching up with Elaine and I always have fun with a little quick lightning round of q&a. What would be three words that best describe you?

Elane Stock 38:22 

Hmm, I would say? Curious, impatient. You don't want to see me in a line at a grocery store? For sure. And probably real agenda, what you see is what you get with me.

David Novak 38:36 

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be and why?

Elane Stock 38:40 

You know, I would love to be a person that thinks about things completely differently. You know, you hear about those folks who can, who can hear colors or or see sounds that their brains just work differently. I'd love to do that for a day and just live in their brains for a day.

David Novak 38:56 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Elane Stock 38:58 

My biggest pet peeve is when when people treat frontline workers as if they're not there or they don't matter. That's my biggest pet peeve.

David Novak 39:05 

That's a good one to have. Tell us something about you that few people would know.

Elane Stock 39:10 

I'm obsessed or at least my kids would say I'm obsessed with Sacajawea the Lewis and Clark Shoshone guide I just think amazing that he or she was the 16 year old girl who was not there by choice by the way and who saved their butts literally their lives more than once during that trip across Louisiana purchase and did it she was pregnant. She went behind a bush and had her baby and then carried her baby for the rest of it. I mean, my daughter talks about the future is female. The past was a lot of female too. She's she's pretty awesome.

David Novak 39:43 

I would say so. Do you have any hidden talents? Elaine?

Elane Stock 39:48 

Not a one I do many things poorly David but I have no hidden challenge.

David Novak 39:53 

What's the favorite thing you do when you do have some downtime?

Elane Stock 39:56 

Oh, I love to go hiking. I particularly like to go hiking with them. My family. The other thing is I love to play Uno, my family will tell you that I'm drive them crazy. I've always got to pack Uno cards with me and willing to play with whoever,

David Novak 40:09 

you know, you mentioned, there's been a lot of females in the past. And it's your daughter says it's a female future. What specific advice would you give to female leaders?

Elane Stock 40:18 

I think female leaders actually, in many ways have advantages over male leaders, they got a lot of disadvantages, too. Don't get me wrong in that. But you know, one of the things I always like to tell female leaders is, I think one of the things that that come more naturally to us is our what I call being being bilingual. And the point is there is that you know, stereotypically, and there's some patterns to this, they're men and women have different ways of talking. Right? The story that I think Deborah Tannen tells in her book is, you know, a man and a woman are driving down the road and and the woman says, are you hungry? And the man checks his bodily systems and says, No, woman would say, Well, what she was really asking was, I'm hungry, would you like to stop and so that they just talked differently. And I think, in the business world today, the opportunity to, to talk female, if I can use that stereotype in terms of bringing a group together, soliciting opinions, coming to consensus, being able to help people to see a path forward that without telling them, or demanding that they go on that path forward, I think is a really important skill and communication behavior. But it's also important to be able to say, you know, here are the three things we need to do, and we're gonna be doing right now. And which tends to be more of a stereotypical male way of talking. And I think being able to speak in both of those ways and communicate in both of those ways, is really effective, because there there are times when you need both. And I think that that's a piece that I think that because women leaders so often have had to work. And in both environments, we tend to more naturally be able to pull different tools out of our toolkit to match those situations.

David Novak 41:55 

Yeah, everything I've seen, all the research that I've seen, says women have the two traits that you need to be successful going forward in the future, you know, they're more empathetic, more collaborative. And, you know, whereas men, it's four of my ways, the highway a lot of time, which is no longer the right way. And that's probably a gross exaggeration, in terms of, of polarizing the situation. But it's great to see so many female leaders like yourself, you know, rise to CEOs. And we got a lot a lot further to go. Yeah, but I think it's great, great to see that, what advice would you give to to all aspiring leaders.

Elane Stock 42:30 

One is, I think it is the Be true to yourself, I think having more of an think about what impact you want to have, and then sort your career to match up to that rather than defining a career or path that you want, I think everybody's going to be happier if they see the impact that they're going to have and start with what you want to accomplish in the world and then work back from that in terms of the pieces. The second, as I said, it is like Arthur Blank says it's all about the values. If you're in a situation where you don't feel comfortable with how folks are acting or behaving or thinking then it's not going to work. And you as a leader need to lead the values, and you need to be explicit about them and articulate about them and talk about them frequently and walk the talk on them. So I would say that would be my second one. The third one is, you know, have fun with the people around you. You know, nobody wants to come to work just for the work that they do. It's about being able to enjoy the experiences that you're having with your colleagues, with your customers. And being able to to find the joy in each of those pieces.

David Novak 43:36 

So it's interesting because recently, my daughter and I had an interview with Indra Nooyi, and she just wrote a book called My Life in full. And it talks about work family and the future. And when Ashley who did the interview asked Indra if balance was possible, she didn't seem to think so. How do you feel about work family balance, you know, is balance a the right word for people to think about?

Elane Stock 44:08 

It's a word that I struggle with to David and I don't know that I would call it balance. It's a little bit like the question you asked me, How do I spend time across my brand? Is how do I spend time across the priorities in my life is something that I put a lot of focus on. And those priorities in my life can be my family, they can be my work, they can be my friends, they can be myself. And how we find time or schedule our time to manage that is the balance and if somebody doesn't have a family, then they need to figure out what their priorities are and have a balanced across those pieces too. So I don't think about it as being how do I balance work and family? I think about what's important to me, and how do I commit the time to those things to do what I feel is necessary in those. And I also think it's it's a little bit of a false aspiration to try and believe you can always make those things He's work all the time. Right, there are going to be ebbs and flows. And what I try to ask myself is, are those ebbs and flows, ones that I feel comfortable with? And am I taking the opportunity if one particular part of my life has been shortchanged for the past month or so am I taking the opportunity to really invest in it in the next month, I think is a big piece of, of trying to make sure that those priorities continue to be important to me, you know it as well as I do. It's, it's hard to find time for all the things that we want to do. And that's why it's even more important to make sure that you know, which ones come to the top of the list, right? Well, you

David Novak 45:35 

know, and right now, you know, you're digging into this new role, and you're making things happen, you're changing a lot, a lot of things, you know, and I'll wrap us up with one last question. If you look out five years from now, you know, what do you hope to see at ServiceMaster? And what do you hope happens to you could write the story,

Elane Stock 45:55 

I could write the story, it would be that our owners are more successful than they've ever imagined, in terms of our franchise owners is that our company stands for more than just the work that we do. And that we've created tremendous opportunities for our people to grow and have an impact in the world.

David Novak 46:13 

I love it. And I really appreciate you taking the time, Elaine to have this conversation. It was a lot of fun. It is fun to see somebody digging into something new and having fun doing it. And I know you've got a great team, they're focused and ready to get behind you and your franchisees. So good luck to you.

Elane Stock 46:31 

Thanks. Thanks very much, David, this has been terrific.

David Novak 46:41 

What a great conversation with Elaine stock. And now it's time for my favorite part of our podcast episodes. That is where I give you coaching to help you develop as a leader this week as part of your weekly personal development plan. Here's what I want you to do. It's very likely that by the end of the day, there's going to be something that comes across your desk that you'll be tempted to do on your own, you're going to want to control the outcome. And the best way to get that result you want is to take it on yourself. That's what you think every single time, but not the day when that task or project comes through. Think about someone on your team that you can pass it off to give up some control and see what happens. Now, I'll tell you, this will be difficult for a while if you're used to controlling everything. But trust me on this, if you want your business to grow, you have to start leaning on your team. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that the great leaders have learned to give up control. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. See you next week.