David Novak 0:03 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Scott Hamilton, and Olympic gold medalist and founder of Scott Hamilton cares Foundation, an organization that is working to eliminate cancer. Now, Scott obviously doesn't need much of an introduction, you already know about his gold medal and figure skating, you probably have seen his incredible backflips on the ice. And you have likely watched him as a commentator on the Olympics over the years. And while you may know him for successes, you may not know about the challenges that he's had to overcome to win his childhood illness, cancer, multiple brain tumors, the times he's fallen on the ice in critical situations. Scott says any goal will always have obstacles, difficulties and setbacks. You will be defined not by those setbacks, but by how you respond to them. There's so much that we can learn from Scott about how to get up after we all fall. And let me tell you something we all do. I'm so excited to have you listen in. Here's my conversation with my new friend, and soon to be yours, Scott Hamilton.

Scott is great to have you on the show.

Scott Hamilton 1:40 

Well, thank you. This is fun. I'm really excited to meet a fellow cancer survivor and someone who's really stepping into this space because I think leadership right now is needed more than it's ever been needed in our culture.

David Novak 1:54 

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. You know, we're going to talk about that. But you know, right now it's time for the Olympics. And here we are glued to the tube in Beijing, you know, and for the last 40 years, the Olympic has have been a big part of your life as a competitor and a commentator. From your perspective, what makes the Olympics so special?

Scott Hamilton 2:12 

Yeah. So many things. It's the world coming together in peace. That's, I think the main thing, it's there's no other movement, there's no other organization, there's no other time, or place in our world where someone can just say, lay down your arms for the next 16 days, while we celebrate youth excellence sport, and what we have in common set up what drives us apart. I think that's the first thing about the Olympics. I think that's so compelling. The second thing is, you know, I think we all love our communities, we all love our homes, we all love the idea that, you know, we're rooting for our own, and, you know, let's go out and get them and, and to hear these stories of dedication and hard work and sacrifice and overcoming, because everybody overcome something to be at the Olympic Games. And I think all of those stories are inspiring as well. And, you know, just again, the excitement of the competition. We all love that, you know, adrenaline rush we get by watching someone do something that we can't even imagine doing ourselves. So there's so much about the Olympics that is attractive. By the time an Olympics comes around. I can't tell you how many times I hear people say, oh, man, we desperately need an Olympics right now.

David Novak 3:27 

Yeah, I love all the backdrop stories, you got one of the best I've ever heard of. And you know, it brings out so much emotion. And speaking of emotion, in the 1980 Olympics at Lake Placid, you had the honor of carrying the American flag into the opening ceremony. I mean, how'd you get that honor Scott? And what was that? Like? I mean, you know, you got all these athletes and it's you,

Scott Hamilton 3:50 

right? Yeah, I was a tourist. You know, I was their third guy to three man team, I had no chance of meddling. I thought if I came in eighth, I won the lottery. Basically, when they brought up the idea, you know, at the first team meeting for figure skating, it's like, Hey, guys, here's how it's going to lay out we're going to like two captains, you know, a male and a female from figure skating, and they're gonna go and represent us with all the other sports and one of the duties is they're going to choose somebody to carry the flag in the opening ceremonies and, and it was really funny. I remember just stepping back and thinking, what would that be like to carry the flag into the opening ceremonies at an Olympic Games? And then I thought, okay, wake up. You're just, you know, like Walter Mitty stuff this, this doesn't belong to you just dismiss it and go back to doing your job. And so I went about my Olympics and and I was in a movie, I think we're watching Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the village. They had a little theater, the village for the athletes. And that was the night of the meeting. And the captains for figure skating were Michael Botticelli, and Stacy Smith, and they pulled me out of the meeting, and they just said, Oh, man, you've really done it this time. And it's like I was I was, I was starting to, like, get flush and I could feel that my temples throbbing and I was starting to sweat. I didn't do anything wrong. I promised I didn't do a thing. I've been perfectly so what? What is going on what is happening? I've been accused of something what's happening? And then I looked over and Sidney Reid was saying that I go, What Why is she here and she was just looking at me with this kind of like, look on her eye, like she was so excited. And I was like, what's happening here and they go, I'll tell you what you've done. You've been elected to carry the flag in the opening ceremonies. And it was just, it was like, why? And Michael, who was a pair skater and he was one of my dearest friends, he said, you know, sitting in that meeting, everybody's talking about excellence and winning, and everybody promoted somebody that was expected to have a high profile at the games. And it just struck him that maybe this Olympics shouldn't be about the destination, but about the journey. And my journey had been so unique with childhood illness, and I was a dedicated underachiever for many, many years during my initial years of being on the national scene. And then I lost my mother to cancer. And then I had a coach and that didn't work out and went to another coach and faith who'd never really had a champion at that level. And, you know, he promoted me as this is about the journey, not about the destination, and they voted for me. And so it's one of the proudest moments of my life. There's so many you know, backstory, comedic moments about that thing, you know, all ending with my parade uniform fitting. They've never had an Olympian my size before, I guess, because

David Novak 6:42 

nothing fit now. Are you 5453? Because I've heard both.

Scott Hamilton 6:46 

Well, I think it vacillates, I think, you know, I was five, three and a half. And then I went through chemo and I went to five, four. And I think now, you know, I'm in my 64th year, I just had my 63rd birthday last summer. And so I think I'm kind of one of those guys. It's slowly succumbing to gravity.

David Novak 7:06 

Now, that Olympics, as part of your journey, you finished fifth in that alliance, what did that experience teaches Scott,

Scott Hamilton 7:13 

you know, I did the math. And I looked around and I looked at the other skaters and the previous world championship, I competed, it was 1978, same pool of athletes. I was 11th. So I'm looking around and thinking if I could come in eight, that would be it'd be a win. And then I was 18 figures. And I just lit up the free skating. And I was fourth and a short fourth, and along and I pulled up to fifth overall. It was astounding. Because you know, soon after that, you know, and I always tried to be really well liked by my competitors. And Robin cousins and I trained together for a year and a half. And we're good friends and he won the gold medal. The silver medal was Yan Hoffman and I remember Yan I just adored amuse from East Germany. And very German. He was very, very focused very German, very Teutonic in his skating, he had not an artistic bone in his body, but I really respected him. And I remember the first practice we had on the Olympic Fieldhouse ice, the Americans practice with these Germans. And I did a waksal. All right, which is an axle that's wacky Axle waksal. And I went straight off my heel, and I went fly it up in the air, and they had just made the ice and so it was still a little bit wet. And I was going full tilt Boogie, right. So I missed this job. And I was going straight for the boards, and I was about to get hurt. And from behind me, this hand grabbed the back of my shirt, and he was very tall, very strong, and he picked me straight up on my feet and saved my life. And it was, yawn I go, I go, I owe you big I gone there. You're my hero for life. And, and we just always had a really sweet relationship, you know. And then he was silver that year at the Olympics. And then the third place gentleman was Charlie Ticknor, from the USA, and we were great friends still to this day, great friends and, and it was after that Olympics in the ensuing World Championships where I came in fifth again, that I woke up one morning, and I realized that Robins turning pro, Yan is going to medical school, and Charlie Ticknor is turning pro. So all I had to do is wake up and I'm ranked second in the world. It's like I am so close to the top. And what do I need to do to get there and it was I needed to really take a heaping helping of humble pie. And it was there that I kind of understood that what was holding me back wasn't anyone else it was me and I needed to get in touch with my weaknesses. And you know, the things that I pushed away the parts of the job I didn't like, which are the compulsory figures, and I needed to figure out a way to repair my relationship with figures and move forward in my scanning because I was that close to becoming a champion.

David Novak 10:06 

So you come in fifth Scott, when most people say fifth, you know, I was, you know, but yeah, you're thrilled about it you writing your book finish first that not only should we expect lots and lots of failure, but we should also be grateful when it shows up because it means we're on the right track, you know, why do you believe that the failure really should be looked at as your greatest asset?

Scott Hamilton 10:27 

Well as there's so many things about it. I mean, you know, I go back to a story of my son when he started playing hockey, you know, he got killed in a house league game. And he came off the ice and he was really upset and he just like, he was so angry, and I go, Okay, let's break it down. What what happened today? And he goes, Well, they skate faster than me. And I go, and that means you got to what work harder my skating? Oh, good. What else? They took the puck away from me every time I had it. Like it was kind of the nature of the game. But what did you learn from that? And he goes, I got to work on my stick handling, I go great. What else and he goes, I just don't like losing. And I go, Okay, well, let's just say today you won, what would you have learned? And he looked at me and he just says, nothing. I go precisely. So we learn from failure and failure isn't scarring or disfiguring or anything else. I think we put such a an identity on failure that we avoid it, we think it's going to be something that we have to carry with us for the rest of our life. And I try to encourage people that failure is 100% information, only information if we can break it down to information. Instead of this horrible toxic scarring disfiguring entity that we have to carry around with us for the rest of our life, I think we can move forward towards excellence or towards the best version of ourselves that we can be in. And so I'm a big fan of failure. I've fallen on the ice minimum 41,600 times. But it's it's getting up 41,600 times that allows you to understand the process of learning the process of growing, and the process of getting to where you want to be.

David Novak 12:04 

Now I'm going to make one of the big understatements of all time, after the 1980 Olympics, you went on a pretty impressive stretch. That's That's my understatement. Because yeah, tell me about those years that led up to the 1984 Olympics. And how did that affect your mindset going into those games?

Scott Hamilton 12:25 

Well, I mean, it's like I turned to the Miami Dolphins like the 72 Dolphins, right, because I keep waiting for somebody to go four years undefeated. And it hasn't happened since 1984. In that stretch, you know, it's part gauntlet part roller coaster, right? So, you know, I went into that first year, and I didn't do well, my first competition. I came in second in international competition in England. And then I came back and I just decided that was unnecessary. That I didn't that didn't need to happen that was self inflicted. And so I put my head down, I just said never again. And so the first competition was October of the streak was October of 1980. And that was in Calgary, and it was the skate Canada competition. I won that competition. And then I never lost again, as an amateur Olympic competitor, I never lost into the competition after that. And there are some highs and lows. Like after I won my first World Championship, I'm looking around thinking, either, I've got to get better. I'm on the podium with a gold medal. I've got to get better. Or maybe this is the lowest place in our sports history if I'm its champion, you know. So it was a psychologically disruptive experience me winning the World Championships. But the next year, I kind of survived the year, because again, I was almost afraid to take the ice for practice, because how could I ever repeat that right? And then I won again, at the nationals. And I want again at the World Championships. And I'm looking around, and I'm not thinking the same thing. I thought the first time I'm thinking, these are just guys like me, they're just guys. They're just guys that are showing up everyday trying to do well trying to win trying to put themselves in a good position. They're just like, they're not I'm not competing against every sentient being on the planet Earth. And I'm not competing against the history of the sport. I'm competing against guys that put their pants and their skates on one leg at a time, one foot at a time. And it's like, no, I just guys, so let's just step into that for the next two years, and figure out a way to stay ahead of these guys. And hopefully I can, you know, survive the gauntlet and the emotional roller coaster and all the injuries and all the slumps and everything that comes with that to show up at an Olympics and try to bring home a gold medal.

David Novak 14:47 

Well, you certainly did that. And I have to ask you, you know, just the thought of this almost brings chills to me to think about standing on the podium, hearing the national anthem, you know, getting that gold medal around Your neck. I mean, what was going on in your brain? That's

Scott Hamilton 15:03 

a collision of every single emotion you can probably imagine. So, you know, I step up on the podium, want to top podium and I, Mike, I made it through the gauntlet, right? There was relief, right. And then the reality of it came down where, you know, it's almost like you put yourself through so much in that four year period that there's this overwhelming sense of, it's just like, now I can finally relax and just let go, you know, because you're just so wound up so tight over those four years. And that was another part of it. And then I started thinking about the sacrifices that my parents made, and the people around me made and how they made it possible. And there was this overwhelming sense of responsibility and almost a guilt ridden gratitude. Okay, put that together. And then I thought, well, I've this is what I've been doing since I was nine years old. Who, who am I now? I mean, what, who? What am I do? And so I, you look over the edge of the podium, and you're like, looking over the edge of a cliff, because it's like, now, your your life is different. And it's like, what am I what am I striving for now I've just, I've done everything I can possibly do in the sport, and then comes the anthem and the metal presentation, and just the pride in country when that anthems playing that flag goes up, this is a shared moment with your country, this isn't a personal achievement, this is an achievement for the United States of America and, and all of that just swells in, and then I can't wait to hug my dad. And, and this is, you know, my coach believed in me and all that, again, gratitude, and then the sadness that it's over. And then what am I you know, all those things, and, and then you step into the next and it's just, how are you going to step into the next, which is an unbelievably important mentality. Because I've seen, you know, a lot of people come out of the Olympics with hardware, and it's toxic to the rest of their lives. And I did not want that to be me. That was one of those guys that as much as I put my hand on the stove, I avoided a lot of stoves by watching others, and I saw what this type of achievement can do to people, they get stuck, and I didn't want to get stuck.

David Novak 17:19 

I want to get into how you move forward. But I first of all have to say I've never heard the phrase step into the next. That's a really cool way to think about what we're constantly doing in life, you know, constantly but but before we step into the next I want to stay right where we're at for a second, you said she represented the United States of American and as I understand it, your metal really broke a 24 year drought for the United States and figure skating. Did that mean anything to you? Did you know that? Or is that something that you learned later? Or did you really even care about that? No, I

Scott Hamilton 17:51 

knew about it, because again, the power of leadership, right? So the guy that won the Olympics in 1960, was a guy named David Jenkins. He was a doctor, he lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And he was the last guy to win Olympic gold and win three World Championships and didn't go to that worlds after the Olympics. He just decided he was done. So going through the gauntlet, I got to year, three of the four years and that was the 1983 World Championships in Helsinki, Finland. And our team doctor was David Jenkins. And he'd never volunteered for that role before. He just wanted to make sure that he did everything he possibly could to get me through that World Championship, so I'd be heavily favored the

David Novak 18:39 

Olympics. Wow, that is incredible story there is beyond

Scott Hamilton 18:43 

sacrifice. I mean, it was so generous that this man was so humble, because not a lot of people don't remember this. But the year after he won his gold medal. The 1961 United States figure skating team was headed to the World Championships and crashed their plane crashed and entered Belgium. And it took our entire team, all of our coaches, everything this entire sport was decimated. And I was the next guy to win. I mean, they had Dorothy Hamill and Peggy Fleming had one on the women's side before me, but I was the next male because when you look back, you know, Dick button was 48 tick button was 52. Hayes Jenkins was 56. David Jenkins was 60. And it looked like that was going to continue on, you know, after them. And it was badly disrupted and we had a lot of guys win World Championships, but no one had broken through to win an Olympic gold medal. So David Jenkins was a huge part of my story. And I'll always be grateful for that. You know,

David Novak 19:44 

I saw Chris Paul, the great basketball guard, you know, when he came back from the Summer Olympics in Beijing and I was at a golf event and he had the the metal around his neck and everybody was taking pictures and I think I even actually got the hold it you know, which is kind of special for me, you know? What do you do with your metal Scott?

Scott Hamilton 20:05 

Okay, again, it's complicated. So when I got back from the Olympics, the city of Denver held a big parade, like 5000 people in Larimer square. The mayor was there, the governor's wife was there. It was a big celebration. It was just big fuss. So that week, I got invited to two things. One was one was the Governor's Office of Colorado. And he sat me down just him and I, and he talked to me about hometown hero syndrome, which is, you know, the quarterback throws the bomb at the end of the High School Championship season wins the state championships gets carried off the field, and feels like the rest of his life is going to be that way. And it's just not. So he really wanted to prepare my heart for just the fact that and he said, I don't want you, I want you to enjoy the fruits of your labor. I want you enjoy this time. But I just want you to know that it's going to end. And I want you to be prepared for that end. And I walked out of that office thinking wow, that was really generous. That was That was amazing. I was wisdom. And I held on to that. And so right after that the Paralympic athletes came back from Sarajevo. And I was asked to speak at the banquet, which was in Denver. And so I walked in, you know, kind of with my metal and kind of like, and I'm looking at all these athletes, some were blind, some were multiple amplitude, amputations. And they all had the same metal as I. But they were who they did things I couldn't imagine doing rise up above their circumstances to be able to compete on a global level. I was able bodied. They weren't. And it was like, who am I. And so from that day forward, that metal lived in a brown paper bag in my underwear drawer. I couldn't wait to get rid of it. Because I just I didn't understand why at the time, but it offended me to have that metal, it offended me. And it just felt like if I keep this thing around, I'm going to get stuck. And I'm never going to find my way out. And so I finally was inducted into the World Figure Skating Hall of Fame and US figure skating said, would you like for us to have some of your memorabilia here at the museum? And I just said, Can you please take all of it. And they said all of it, and I got all of it. Everything, I don't want it. I don't want to have anything, I don't want it around me. I don't want it to because I didn't I it's almost like it's a weight, right. And I wanted to be able to launch into a professional career into the next with, you know, ambition and an open mind and an open heart. And I wanted to go into it with a lot of intensity and the same kind of work ethic that I went into my competitive career. And they took everything. And it was like I realized now that I've really come to faith and that I've really dedicated my life to the Lord that those things can become idols, and they can prevent you from, you know, being the whole person. And rising above, you know, not only your failures, but your successes because successes can be more debilitating than failures. You know, I was really happy to get rid of all of it. It's all there. They look after it. Who cares. It's done. It's over. It's done.

David Novak 23:32 

Get it out of that brown paper bag and put it in the Hall of Fame. Something like that, you know, put a bracelet where it really really belongs. You know,

Scott Hamilton 23:38 

they said Now where's your medal, and I brought out the brown paper bag and they're like that it's in there. Really? Yeah, it's been in there for eight years. Take it.

David Novak 23:47 

You did win that Olympic medal though. And everything changes when you win. Yeah. How has it impacted your life just winning

Scott Hamilton 23:56 

the Olympics. It gave me a level of credibility in the marketplace where I was able to leverage that into my first job was the Ice Capades. I told the president of Ice Capades. And I have a picture of him right here in my office because I really admired him. He was kind of grumpy, you know, like, he led with that kind of like, you know, focus and seriousness. And I said, I'm going to be the best employee you ever had. And he goes, No, you're not. And I go, Yeah, I I'm telling you right now, I'm gonna be the best employee you've ever had. I'll never miss a show. And I'll never miss a press opportunity to promote the show. And he said, Yeah, you know, what are you Olympic guys say that, but by the time you get to us, you feel like the work is done. And you end up partying and then missing shows, and we have to give tickets back to unhappy customers because you're not there. And, and it's like, we've done this so many times. It's like, you know, you're, you're, I know you're saying this for my benefit, but you're not going to be the best employee we've ever had. And I go mark my words and he goes, Okay, so I had a two year contract with a third year option. And in the last show of my second year, I'm just chomping at the bit because I did it. I made it through that gauntlet of not only doing what I was expected to do, but I was I was contracted for 20 weeks a year. And I did 23 average. I never missed a show I took over for other athletes that were injured or ill. And I never missed a press opportunity. Even if a car didn't show up to pick me up. Right. I ran to television studios sometimes just to make sure that I didn't miss that press opportunity. The president vice capades came to my last night and I was waiting for my third year option. And he goes, he did it. Congratulations. And I go, Well, you know, I'm waiting for my third year option because you know, we just recently went through a sale and I go, I go, I'm really looking. I'm excited to meet the new owners. And he goes, Well, he doesn't want to meet you. And it's like, why? And he said, Well, he only wants women. He doesn't want male stars. He only wants women stars. So we're letting you go. And so I met with my manager Bob Kane. And he said, I you know, I we've done everything we can Ice Capades will not take you back. They only want women. And I was like, okay, okay, well, he goes, Do you want to help us start a tour, and I looked at him and I laughed, I said, let me check my calendar. It was like leg. And so they gave me this five city opportunity to prove that a tour of elite skaters would be viable. And then we did five cities in the northeast, our first city was in Bangor, Maine, the next four cities, we got stronger and better. And they said, let's try this five more cities, and December. And we did that. And it was really popular. And then we started adding three city runs in the spring, those little experiments became stars on ice, which is a show that still exists to this day.

David Novak 26:49 

And you found that and you built that. And you know, that's a heck of a leadership challenge. How did you go about just recruiting the talent that you needed to have to make the show go?

Scott Hamilton 27:00 

Well, I just, you know, I kind of said, Do you want to be the tail or the dog? You know, and they all said dog and I go, let's go let's take control of our own lives and careers. And let's build a company that can really allow us to skate at the highest level possible. In a rock and roll setting where we were in or out we do. We don't instead of doing 12 shows in one city where we get like totally burnt out. Let's go into one show in one city and move on to the next and the next and the next and keep our skating up at its highest level. And and the skaters are Yeah, yeah, like, you know, Rosalyn summers who is silver in Sarajevo in the ladies competition. She was just floundering and Disney on Ice. So I go come to us and she said gladly Let's go. And you know I Brian Pokhara and taller Cranston and all these other really great skaters decided to come with us as well. And you know, Sandy lands was on the ADEA Olympic team with me they were friends, we're all dear friends, and we just linked arms and we worked really hard to present our first show is something that should be taken seriously and we we had theatrical lighting and we had great choreographer and, and it just was one of those things where, by the time you know, we came to being a tour, Dorothy Hamill said, you know, outcome I'll join. Wow. And then Dorothy was with us and then Kristi Yamaguchi wins the gold medal. First time we had a women's gold medalist since Dorothy Hamill. And she said I want to join stars on ice. I don't want to go any other route but stars on ice. So she joined us and then Paul Wiley joined us and then Katarina vet joined us and then Kurt Browning joined us then Torvill and Dean and Guardium GrainCorp. And all these people joined us.

David Novak 28:37 

How much do you think that vision you had for greatness? got people to join, you said, you know, let's really do this, right. Let's make this great. I mean, you know, leaders of God inspire people with the vision that they have for their company.

Scott Hamilton 28:48 

Well, I think they trusted me to, you know, fight for them. When you're touring entertainer. There's this really interesting line or balance between, like talent and management. And it's got its and then you got the crew, right? So there's, there's a lot of different entities that go into a touring show, like stars and ice that really needs someone to step into the area between all those entities and quietly, you know, plead our case, right. And so with Bob Kane, and with Gary Swain, who are the producers from IMG, on that side, great, the crew side, they were my focus on so many levels, because they work harder than everybody else that I really wanted to make sure that they felt loved appreciated, and that we make sure that we recognize, you know, all of their efforts to make sure that we look our best when we step on the ice. And then for the skaters it was just like this is an opportunity. This is an unbelievable opportunity for us to chart our own course, really just invest in that and do everything you can and so the skaters would come together and we'd have production meetings together where we produce the show together, and then it got to a point where Once Christie joined the tour, and we were 60 cities, instead of 30. And then 12, in Canada, it became important that we had, you know, more of a prominent producer or choreographer, director of the show, to kind of allow us to do our jobs while looking after a lot of those duties that the skaters and I were doing ourselves. So it really drew organically and it was really done in a way of, I'll fight for you. Give me the best you've got so that I can represent you as well as that you need to be represented in order to step into this opportunity that we can build something specific and something spectacular.

David Novak 30:39 

So people knew that you you really had their back and you wanted their best interest, which is a fundamental for any any great leader, and I had

Scott Hamilton 30:47 

to be the hardest working guy there. Otherwise, how am I going to ask anyone else to rise up to this challenge and this opportunity, if I don't show them that I'm willing to work harder than they do? So I was skating at the top of my game, I was doing programs that were more difficult than anything I'd ever done before. Is that where you first did the backflip? First, backflip second year and Ice Capades.

David Novak 31:09 

How do you get the courage to even try that the first time? You gotta be halfway lunatic? You don't? I mean, you gotta dream it up. And then isn't there any kind of fear that you have when you do that the first time?

Scott Hamilton 31:20 

Yeah, it takes Well, I'll tell you the first guy that did it was a lunatic. His name was Skippy Baxter. And he did in the 40s. He just said, you know, if I skate backwards really fast and stick my toe in the ice. I bet I can get over and a backflip. And he did it right. So he was the pioneer. And I took my first backflip lesson from Skippy Baxter. And I was like, okay, you know, skating backwards really fast. And sticking your toe in the ice isn't a really a strategy. It's a recipe for disaster. So I went to a friend of mine who's a gymnastics coach. And I spent a year working with him on and off to build those kinds of muscles in that technique in order to be able to prepare my body and my mind to be able to go over straight over. Because anytime you watch skating, you'll see that the second you leave the ice, you start rotating, right? So when you go to do backflip, you're breaking all of those habits that you've learned from day one. And it took me about a year of really just teaching my body how to square itself off and it goes straight up in the air, and then tuck my pelvis and then everything flips over. And it's sort of like, you know, I always said it was tuck and pray. But it's more like it's up and over. Right. And so I learned it right over time. And I took it, it was one of those things where I, I knew that this was something I needed to respect because my head was going to be closer to the ice and the rest of my body made sense to me. So yeah, by the time I learned it, I had the movement down so well that putting it in the show. I've put it at the beginning of my performances and when I first learned it, so I did it on fresh legs, and then slowly over time, I'd put it at the end where it would have the greatest impact. Wow, that's great,

David Novak 32:56 

you know, and you win the gold. You're filling arenas with stars on eyes, you're doing backflips, you know, and you're you're unbelievably popular. I mean, I saw a survey, where you were ranked ahead in popularity of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. Now look, Magic Johnson six, nine biggest file in the history of the world and one of the greatest people you'll ever meet. Yeah. What do you have that he didn't? I mean, what what really drove your popularity? What puts you ahead of him?

Scott Hamilton 33:25 

Women? No, I mean, it's like when you look at figure skating, and it was sort of like my secret strategy here. I would look at in the audience and figure skating is loved by women, right. And I was, you know, I was never going to be that guy that was going to be a controversial in any way, I was never going to be that guy that you know, was inaccessible. Or I was ever going to present myself as royalty that, you know, kind of put me up, you know, never, you know, I peeked out of the curtain, you know, before the show, and I'd see all these women. But I also saw something else. And it struck me it hit me like a ton of bricks, I'd see a guy sitting next to his wife, arms crossed, slumped in his chair, checking his watch, looking around to see if anybody else his friends were there because he's taking one for the team. And he's like, going on a date night with his wife, and this is what she wanted to do. And he'd rather be anywhere else. Why not see as a strategy, if I can get that guy on his feet. If I can win that guy over, if I can get a standing ovation from that guy. I'm onto something really unique and really powerful. So if I'm one of those guys that's not only liked by the people that are expected to be you know, appreciated by and that's the women fans of the sport. And if I can break through to the men and it's like to this day, it's hilarious. I'll be at the airport and a guy walk up to me and I'll say, Hey, are you that skater guy? I go. Yes, sir. And he goes, I you I don't watch that stuff. I'm like football and I really like baseball, but I don't watch figure skating. But my wife loves you. Can I introduce you, please? Oh, absolutely. So this guy, I'm gonna get his wife and I'll come back and I'll say, Honey, look who I found. And she'll look at me like, I have absolutely night, no idea who that is. I just go, when it's in that way. I saw this with a lot of skaters as well, if you don't choose your audience, but you create an atmosphere where your audience can choose you. Now you're onto something. Because you have a broader appeal. You have, there's no limitations. There's no barriers to your ability to create a platform and grow your sport. Mike, my heroes weren't skaters weren't athletes. My heroes were rock stars. You know, there were three in particular, Bruce Springsteen, love them blue collar gap, they're so good for our shows, over delivered. Never over promised, you know, is that guy that you just knew that when you went to one of his shows, he was going to work hard. I wanted to be that guy, Neil Diamond. Every time he's on stage, you just see his love of his craft and his love of his music. And it's just infectious. And that's why he was able to tour for 50 years, I want to be that guy, I want to show the love of my craft and everything else. And there's another guy that was kind of like the ace up the sleeve. And that was Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin. When Zeppelin broke up, and he always loved them, because they were so adventurous, their music and they were so you know, each album was so distinct to the last when he went solo. And he started experimenting with different rhythms and everything else I go, I want to be like him where it's not predictable, where it's, it's really every time it's fresh. And every time it's new, and, and where it's not just, you know, kind of making sausages, where, you know, I could step on the ice and I could do something that people would like wonder what it's going to be this year, and it was going to deliver because it was done with integrity and with authenticity. I want to be like those guys. And that combination really worked. It allowed me to build a unique career that wasn't based in well, he's just that, like, you know, I look back on a lot of skaters before me, well, he's just a classical artist, or he's just avant garde, or he's all meat, potatoes and no parsley, you know, those types of things. I wanted to step into something where I could create all these really fun numbers that I love doing every single night. With the challenge that next year, I've got to surpass it, joyfully surpass it without a lot of pressure. And I was able to in all those years I was with stars and ice. I was able to close the show every year no matter who the Olympic champion was coming in, because I'd earn their trust in order to be able to do that.

David Novak 37:46 

I love how you best practice superstars and other vocations which is being an action learner, which is great. How'd you get into skating in the first place?

Scott Hamilton 37:55 

I was very sick as a child. I was in and out of hospitals for four years. I wasn't growing up. I wasn't developing I was I was adopted six weeks of age. So my parents didn't know what to expect. But it became obvious after a while that something was wrong. And so we started going to the doctor and the doctor knew that something was wrong and couldn't figure it out. And I got misdiagnosed several times. I went from Bowling Green Wood County Hospital to Toledo Children's Hospital to Ann Arbor Children's Hospital, University of Michigan. And then the fourth year, we ended up at Boston Children's and, and it was there that I had every symptom of shacman Diamond syndrome with celiac disease. I wasn't growing, I was just suspended stomach. I was very weak. And Dr. Schwartzman himself, put me through every test he could imagine. And he just said to my parents, he goes, he doesn't have Trotman diamond syndrome. He has every symptom, but he didn't have it. I don't know what's wrong with them. Here's my advice, go home, live a normal life, take him off all the restrictive diets and just see what happens because medically there's not a thing we can do for him. This is a four year adventure you've been on, we don't have any answers. Go home, see what happens. And so to get my parents one morning off each week to kind of bond with my little brother, who you know, is now in the house and adopted and to give them an opportunity to kind of recharge their batteries after this four year. really horrific, very stressful. Four years of their sick son. Our doctor said, here's how you take your morning off. There's a brand new facility at Bowling Green State University. It's the Ice Arena every Saturday morning from eight until noon. They teach children how to skate there's over 100 kids in the program. Let him go. And so I walk into the rink and there's 120 Well, kids and I was really more way more comfortable with sick kids because I'd spent more time with them than while kids but I'm looking at 120 Well kids and it's like wow. And so you know first couple of weeks I was hanging on to the wall and letting go and then you know after several weeks I realized that I could, I could skate as well as well, kids. And then after several more weeks, I realized that I could skate as well as the best athletes in my grade. And it was my first real honest taste of self esteem. Well, I can do something. And so I lived at the rink, I wanted to be on the ice all the time, my parents had to threaten me to get me off the ice and, and I couldn't be on the ice and off ice skate every freestyle Republic session, I was starting to take private lessons I was I was testing, I was starting to compete that very first summer, it was just a beautiful discovery that, you know, with my size, with my health, and with everything else, I could actually participate in a sport that I could do on my own without the threat of getting killed by some other bigger person. And, and it was there that my health turned to a huge corner and I started to grow again and get healthy again. So it was miraculous.

David Novak 40:55 

Wow, that is, that's that's a great story. And, you know, your mom, she passes away from cancer, you had been diagnosed with testicular cancer, you had a brain tumor three, and yet, you know, three, you know, I saw I saw, I saw a talk and I'm glad you brought that up, because it just makes us question even more profound in my opinion is that, you know, you talk about cancer being a blessing. Okay. You know, how did you arrive in in that kind of headspace? You know, how could you reframe something like cancer into a blessing?

Scott Hamilton 41:29 

Well, when I lost my mom to cancer, I didn't think it was a blessing at all. I I was devastated the morning I lost her. She was the center of my universe, you know, she was the more person on the planet I loved the most. So when I respected the most so what I had the best relationship with, she spent the night in the hospital with me, she was always the one that got the joke. She was the one that would take me to the ice. She was the one that you know, became the test chairman in the skating club. She was she was it. She was beloved in our community in the marine I lost her. I realized my mate teen I'm underachieving. She sacrificed every single thing in her life to make sure that I had an opportunity to live mine, the least I can do is try to become the skater that she sacrificed for me to be. And so I stepped into this thing where I would just try to honor her every session, I've tried to honor her. Every moment I was on the ice and went from being ninth in the country. The last time she saw me skate to being third in the United States, the very next year, just one decision to honor my mom and, and that became an Olympic berth in 1980. And then everything happened after that. But when I had cancer, you know, I was on top of the world, I was, you know, year 13 of what I thought would be a two to four year professional career. We're selling out Madison Square Garden for like, third year in a row, we you know, it was just this big success story stars and ice and it was just I was really working way too hard. So I thought I had an ulcer and I went in and to, you know, just to can you give me something that might have my abdominal pain is just too much. And the doctor put me through some scans, and he sat me down. This was in an emergency room in Peoria, Illinois, and just said, we found a mass. And I just kind of chuckled a little bit. He goes, What's so funny, I go, Well, I mean, you know, look at me, nobody's ever used the word mass and description of me before. And he goes, No, this is either benign, malignant, or something else. And I realized in that moment, I was like, 20, to two months shy of 20 years of losing my mom. And I was just overwhelmed with fear. And that fear. I mean, it was amazing that, you know, with, I don't know, if it's five minutes, five seconds or nanosecond, that fear was instantly replaced with a sense of power and mission and authority that I was going to fight this thing with everything I had, and I was going to be back on tour next year. And that was kind of my My thing is back on tour next year, and so months of chemotherapy at a big 38 staple surgery, so somebody my size, you know, it's kind of like fillet of Scott, it was huge. And, and then I had to come back from all of that to be on tour the very next year, and I made it, but it was one of those things where it was a fork in the road, and I needed to take it right and I knew that now the tour was the tail that wag the dog, you know, I didn't feel like the dog anymore. And, and I needed to just sort of sort it out. So I got my car and I just drove and I ended up I lived in Denver and I ended up you know kind of going you know through New Mexico I stopped in Tucson for a while to visit friends and then I ended up in LA and and it was there that I met my wife in Memphis she moved to she find out a few months later that she's moving to LA we start dating and she's my wife is center my life and Mother My children and and she led me to my faith and you know, cancer allowed that to happen. So I don't look at cancer necessarily. It's it's it's a tough battle. It's you know, it hits you in Every level, and it was in my third brain tumor diagnosis that I kind of figured it out, they would give me treatment options, you know, I already treated the first with radiation, the second one with a surgery that didn't go well. And then the third year, they go here, your options this time. And all I hear is like, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, I couldn't hear because everything in the back of my mind said get strong. Just get strong, get strong. And I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know if it meant I needed to get strong physically. Like, I need to work out more if I needed to get strong emotionally, like, get in touch with my you know, whatever. If I needed to get strong intellectually, just be more interested in everything going on around me. Try to grow, you know, my understanding of things or if it was, spiritually, I need to get stronger. And so I just chose e like I did in high school, if I didn't know the answer, I just chose e all the above, right. And I was able to just get stronger physically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, and I've now it was diagnosed six years ago. And I've never had to have it treated yet. So I thank the Lord for that. He gets all the glory in that. But it's just that idea that we can step into getting strong, like we can, we can, that's one thing we can all take ownership of, is being stronger, better, deeper than we've ever been. And more in touch, you know, and just take responsibility for our physical lives, our emotional lives, our intellectual lives, and mostly our spiritual lives. Because, you know, I firmly believe that this life is a blip compared to what's to come. And, you know, we can spend this life and quality and integrity to really shore ourselves up for the opportunity of eternity.

David Novak 46:45 

What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to improve as a leader?

Scott Hamilton 46:49 

Oh, just lead by example. And be humble and hungry, humble, and hungry is a really good combination. I if you can live in the balance of humble and hungry, you're probably going to be okay.

David Novak 47:02 

And I've heard you say that it's what we do with the second chances in life that really matters. You know, what do you see as your unfinished business?

Scott Hamilton 47:10 

My unfinished business is, you know, to see it through, you know, each opportunity, each thing that comes is an extension of the last and to do it the best I possibly can and not feel like I'm entitled to anything, right? This whole entitlement thing. It's like, well, don't you know who I am? I've heard so many Olympians say that. Like, there was this funny story of BART Connery married naughty Coleman each, arguably the greatest gymnasts of all time. Yep. Simone Biles, of course, is in the conversation, but not a common each was the first major superstar global superstar in gymnastics, and they were on a gymnastics tour. And one of the guys who just won a gold medal in the Olympics insisted to be in first class on their gymnastics tour. And so Barton ADIA are backing coach. They're back mix it up with everybody and they're like, Okay. Okay, that that humble pie is gonna come hard and quick, you know. So, you know, it's, there's so much that we can learn from just taking a step back and just enjoying each opportunity as as just that an opportunity and not feel like we're entitled to something because of what we've done. But what we are about to do, which will open the next door, and that will open the next door. And that will open the next door if if I lived on this idea that I was owed anything, because I won the Olympics 38 years ago that you owe me or that this this, then I missing the point.

David Novak 48:41 

Yeah, well, I want to thank you very much Scott for this time, because and also, with what you're doing for the Scott Hamilton's cares Foundation, where you're trying to improve the lives of others and people who are struggling with cancer and sky cares.org. Please join us, God cares.org You are giving back to others and making a big difference in this world. And thank you for the example you said as a leader and a person and thank you for taking the time to be on this show. I appreciate it.

Scott Hamilton 49:09 

Thank you, Dan, I appreciate your time. And good luck with everything you're doing. I pray that you bless a lot of people with this podcast.

David Novak 49:16 

Thank you. Thank you

let me tell you something, I was absolutely moved by Scott's personal story, how he's had so much adversity on the health front, and how he looks at all the challenges that he's had as a blessing. And I couldn't help but think about my wife Wendy when I was listening to Scott, when he's a type one diabetic. She's had it since she's seven she's 69 years old today. She risked her life to have Ashley our daughter who's now 38 years old. She went blind after the pregnancy fought back from After going through all the operations it takes with diabetic retinopathy. She has broken almost every limb in her body at one time or another. When she went to the Alps to ski on the last run, she had seven cracked ribs. You know, she is fractured her a one vertebrae. Most people get paralyzed when that happens or they die. You know, she has had severe diabetic seizures many, many times in her life. And recently, she's just had a stroke and then fell and broke her arm. But let me tell you something, she is fighting like a warrior to get back to where she was. You know, it takes so much courage, so much inspiration to get up once you fall. But Wendy is doing it, Scott obviously did it. And we all need to do it. There's no amount of winning, that makes any of us immune to failure. We all face challenges in our life. But as getting up when we fall that matters most. Here's what I want you to do this week, think about three friends that are up against some major challenges. It could be at work at home in their health. And I want you to send them a link of this episode to encourage them. You know, Wendy, listen to this episode. And I have to tell you, it really lifted her spirits up and it gave her a can do attitude. Scott stories is so inspiring. And I know that if someone has been knocked down, this may be just what they need to hear to get back up. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that the great leaders know how to get up after they fall. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be. See you next week.