Welcome to Alleters Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Dave Calhoun, the president and CEO of Boeing, the largest aerospace company and leading manufacturer of commercial jetliners, defense, space and security systems. Dave joined Boeing as CEO in January of 2020. And little did he know the challenges that he'd be up against only a couple months later when COVID hit. But what Dave has shown is that great leaders restore stability in the midst of a crisis. When we're thrown a right hook that we didn't expect, when things are a bit chaotic, we look to great leaders to show us how we should think and behave. Now what you're going to hear in this interview is how Dave helped Boeing navigate not only COVID and the massive impact that it had on the airline industry, but also how Boeing has handled the situation of their 737 MAX, which was banned from flying passengers due to two plane crashes in 2018 and 19. Now it takes a strong leader to navigate those situations. And I know there's a lot for us to learn in this episode. So fasten your seat belts and here we go. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Dave Calhoun, the president and CEO of Boeing. I understand this is your very first podcast. So I have to tell you, I'm really honored. Thanks for taking the time to be on the show. Well, Dave, needless to say, I haven't been raising my hand for lots of these things. On the other hand, it's you. And if I wanted to sit down and talk to somebody, I know it would be you. So I appreciate the opportunity. You worked in a very competitive company early on in your career at GE and you did that for 26 years. And how do you think that experience, Dave, prepared you for the job you have today as the CEO of Boeing? A year after I joined, so this is now 19 1981, Jack Welch got appointed the new CEO of GE. So my entire career was built under his tutelage mentorship leadership as a company. And I watched, just remember all the major transformations he took General Electric through during that time. We were all under siege from global competition in Japan. They were teaching us how to build things. It was sort of a magical moment. So I got to observe that from a distance in the beginning. But the other thing he was all about was the development of leaders and exercising the laboratory of businesses that he had access to and then moving people through businesses, always believing they would get better with every next step, but also believing that most the industries learn their most important things from adjacent industries or from completely different industries who had to perfect something for their own survival. So they did and then capturing that practice and implementing it inside the variety of industries represented in GE. So he moved me around geographies. He moved me around businesses. He moved me through functions. It was phenomenal. You know, Dave, I actually had the opportunity to meet with Jack Welch in 1997 when young brands were spun off from PepsiCo and the advice I asked him, what would you do if you were me as a new CEO? He said, listen, I started out. People saw me as neutron Jack. They didn't know who I was. But if I were you, I'd find some way to really focus in and let people know what you're trying to build, what kind of culture you're trying to create. Is that something that you took with you as well? Yeah, 100%. With every next job outside of GE, of course, the first goal I make is to Jack asking for exactly the same advice you did. Dave, you got to get the values thing. You know, that's the key to everything. And then you got to work on them for beginning to end. That will be the differentiator in every way. So in my very early innings, of course, this was with the Nielsen company who measured companies like yours and others in the consumer space, come up with your set of values and make sure everybody in the company knows it. And I did that. And in the early going, it's a little awkward. But by the time you get everybody bought in and everyone's gone through their own discovery around those values, it is the most powerful weapon. Any of, I think anybody in the leadership world has. You spent 26 years at GE. And when I first met you, we're actually CEO of Nielsen. You just mentioned that company. And it was a really struggling, private-held business. And you led an incredible transformation there and basically turned Nielsen into the leading global information and measurement firm in the world and took a public on the New York Stock Exchange. What did you learn working at Nielsen about turning a business around and going into a situation like that and making big things happen? Well, and at that time, there were other companies like Nielsen, but it was a collection of companies, a collection of brands. Ironically, we didn't even use the Nielsen brand as much as we used about 30 other brands, all attached to specific products that may have been acquired or developed over a course of 20, 30 years. So it was this collection of things. And there is a reason to believe that small integrated businesses can create value and grow in ways that a big one couldn't. But in our case, the complexity bred complexity, bred complexity. So you have layer on top of layer on top of layer. I'm not talking about people in cost. That comes too, but really just what do we do as a company? So for us, we decided we would exercise our scale and we would simplify our mission. So we went from 30 brands with 30 different ways of articulating their value to customers to one that simply said we measure what people watch and what people buy. And then all of a sudden it became understandable to a lot of folks. And then finally, there was another axis that of course I grew up under Welsh and GE, which is globalization. That I had many, many, many customers who now had big global footprints and wanted some level of consistency with which they measured their markets and their consumers around the world. And Nielsen did its very best to satisfy that objective. So it was those kinds of things, but it just reminds me, and in some ways I'm tackling the same issue today, Boeing, big institutions, they can get into a mode of adding complexity and never removing any of it, right? Never working as hard on simplifying as they do adding that next layer and next lens. You end up leaving GE after 26 years to go to Nielsen CEO. Tell us the process you went through to make that decision because that had to be a tough one for you. Oh, it was. And a little misunderstood at the time. And now the postscript tends to get a little marble. I was quite happy at GE. So let me just sort of say that I love the company. It developed me into what I was, but I added inclination, desire to want to try something on my own. And I felt like I could do that kind of thing. So I was looking at things. Now the more important and difficult question for pretty much everybody is timing. In this case, I was running from something. And for me, I was running from a phenomena that I had witnessed at GE and other companies for a long time that when leaders turn 50, or unless just use that as a proxy, but when they get a certain age, the pension becomes a major factor in their career decisions and maintaining and building that pension and realizing the fruits of those pensions was a big deal. And I view that as a handcuff. So my timing was that before I got to 50, I would do something because I knew I would probably fall for the same thing. So that's why I made the move when I made it. And fortunately, this wonderful opportunity at Nielsen came along. And you run to this Nielsen, which is a data driven company. Did you learn anything running that business that you can share with leaders on how to use data? Yeah, great question. And the answer is yes, I learned it a lot. And I can even maybe talk about some practices I brought from GE and data analytics. My life in data analytics really started as an observer and user in the GE aircraft engine business. As you know, we take data off an engine while it's flying. We take it off 24/7, and we use it to predict potential problems and/or schedule maintenance activities and do all those kinds of things. When we used it to great benefit with respect to both GE's performance relative to our competitors and more importantly, our customers' performance relative to their competitors. There was some very important about the use of data for a subject like maintenance and safety in aviation. And that is something I call gauge R&R. A lot of people know what that is in the manufacturing world. It means you can't use bad data. Your data has to be good. You have to know how to screen it, work it, only use good data when you make decisions. When I went to Nielsen, I was excited at the use of data. I was excited about how it could inform the supply chain and even more importantly, the demand chain associated with all kinds of consumer products. But I also saw an opportunity to improve what, again, I referred to before as gauge R&R. And that is the quality of the data, the consistency of the data that would be applied to that level of work. Because you're not dealing with safety and you're not dealing with critical maintenance practices, you can take a little more liberty in the data world in consumer marketing. And a lot of liberties were in fact taken. And I've always viewed one of our primary roles at Nielsen was to bring real measurement science in the industrial language, gauge R&R, to that and to make sure that we were the best in the world at it. So I've always had an interest and always believed in the power of data to this day. It drives me. And I learned a lot in using that and using it with respect to understanding consumers. You know, we were both in a CEO group that where we shared best practices. And my favorite presentation of all the CEOs every time we met was I loved yours because you always gave us such a real clear sense of what was going on in your business. And do you have your key measures that you want to make sure everybody knows it Boeing? And for us right now, building some predictability into what we deliver to our customers, et cetera, is really, really important. So we do have a short list of objectives that most of them revolve around this thing we call stability. And I'm not ashamed of that. We have a treasure trove of innovation and growth opportunities. We are funding them. We feel great about all of that. But the priority at the moment for all of us is to reinstil the disciplines around our production systems and our engineering designs and then just becoming a little bit of a dull company with respect to that and our relationship with the flying public. So it's ironic and it's different than anything I've ever done. But situations call for certain things. And I believe that this situation called for that. Speaking of your situation, I was thinking about this. I don't know any CEO in recent history that's had a bigger challenge than you. To take over a CEO of Boeing in January of 2020, you were mired in a crisis halfway through the 20 month grounding of the 737 MAX after two-planeched, crashed, killing 346 people. What was in you to want to even take on a challenge like this? I know it's not for the money. You've got to be a little crazy. Now, I've worked around Boeing and I've worked in the aerospace aviation industry for a fairly long time or been around it. Even when I was working at Nielsen, I was still attending some aviation conferences and seeing friends, et cetera. And then I got on the Boeing board and I was crazy about Boeing every day I was there. I loved everything about it. I still think it's the most important company in the world. They're working on things that some I can talk about, some I can't that will make a difference in the world for decades and maybe even centuries. And we're good at it. We're really good at it. And so for me, this was the right time, the right moment. I just believe so deeply in our people and our mission and the work that we do. I know when you looked at Boeing, a lot of critical information, this was public. And emails were floating around Boeing to throw up red flags on the 737 MAX, which led to the crisis. Like people saying, I wouldn't fly on it. When you look back on that, what do you think was the culprit on why this didn 't bubble up or did it bubble up and people just ignored it? And more importantly, what are you doing now to make sure that those things don 't happen again? Yeah. So I'm not going to go back if you're okay. I don't want to go back over all that happened. There's a lot that transpired. And so if there's a word I probably started with and it's a word I never, ever missed the opportunity of talking about its transparency. I just think it's the most powerful thing there is. I don't want to ever hide anything from anybody. I want to know everything and very confident we can work our way through anything we know about, anything. So we're doing everything in our power to make sure that that word is embraced at every level. You know, as you well know, we're a highly regulated business. And our best engineers would like to have all their ducks in a row before they approach a regulator in any way. And the regulator then will have to probe and do all their things. I would like us to open up a little more of our development process, you know, when we're wrestling with the trades that have to get made. And I will reemphasize. I never saw and I still have not seen anybody willingly trade safety against anything. And so I just want to make sure that's clear on all fronts. But beyond just that subject, transparency, you know, my gosh, we're having a hard time getting airplanes out of our 787 program and delivered to the marketplace. We have to be transparent about all the work we're doing with the FAA. And we've got to give them time to discover for themselves whether there are conclusions and answers in engineering of the right ones, et cetera. And that is how you slowly steadily regain the trust of everybody that was around you during that moment when we lost that trust. It was that was a devastating moment for our company and for me personally. And I'm determined to try to get ahead of that. I think our whole company is. You took over in January of 2020. Where is Boeing today versus then? You know, what progress do you think you've made? Oh my gosh, I think we've made a ton of progress. Remember when I started in January, COVID wasn't here yet. So we really had the max and that was big. And it was threatening the enterprise and we had a relationship with our regulator that had to get repaired. So we sat down immediately. We had a new leader at our commercial unit. We sat down. We put together a recertification program that disappointed a few people because it was going to take longer. But we were building in discovery time for the FAA so they could do their work and do it well. We got to the finish line in December of that year with the FAA administrator who happens to be a 3/7 pilot flying our airplane. And we got enormous support broadly in the world from our customers on just how good the max really is. So the flying public was more than willing to get on the airplane and it has performed incredibly well. And now we're burning down the inventory of airplanes that we got. We have to do that in a disciplined way. So what else do we have to do? Well, then we had to contend with COVID which took down traffic about 80%. So yes, we had footprint consolidations that we had to handle. We had an unfortunate reduction in workforce. We did everything in our power to do that through voluntary means. So our involuntary part of that was the smallest that we could possibly engineer our way to. But we've gotten through that restructuring and downsizing. In fact, now we're rebuilding that workforce and we've maintained more people than we ever frankly needed at the really low rates so that we could start up in a better way than we would otherwise have started up. So I'm feeling pretty good about that. So there's one other issue, Dave, that you know probably as well or better than anyone. And that is China is changing in a really big way. We've enjoyed and we continue to enjoy an incredible relationship with the Chinese airlines. We've supplied them their airplanes. It's met their air travel requirements and needs. It plays an enormous role in the e-commerce world for all of them. We had gotten to a place with the phase one negotiations under the last administration to where we would continue our great relationship with all of these airlines. Anyway, it has taken longer and there's more sort of a indecision around what happens at in China for the United States and then therefore for Boeing. I am still feel good and determined to work with our Chinese airlines and deliver them the airplanes that they have been flying for a very long time. I really believe the best leaders do a great job of self-coaching. So much so that I actually wrote this book I'll take charge of you how self-co aching can transform your life and career. Dave, how have you self-coached yourself up during such challenging times? You know, in one of my great experiences at GE, I worked for a great leader by the name of Larry Bossey and I worked right next to him on all the major things he was tackling at what was then a vice chair role and we all know he went on to bigger, better things. But Larry conducted a meeting. Every meeting ended with an end game and every meeting ended with a, how does GE win that end game? So all of the crunching and grinding that was going on in the marketplace at the moment, we're going to have a chance to step back and think about the end game we're all working for. And he was good at it. So everyone felt when they finished in a difficult meeting with Larry, they knew where, you know, the future was and they knew where forward was and they all kept moving. So nothing got stalled. I like to practice that as much as I possibly can. The beauty of what I think we have here at Boeing is we're going to take the time we need to rebuild our relationships with the customers and our regulators and most importantly, the flying public. We're going to take our time. We're going to be disciplined about it. It'll disappoint investors a little bit relative to where they used to be. But if we do it right, we're going to get right back on top of this world. We just are. Our products speak for themselves. We have an incredible technology reservoir to draw from. I'm excited about what the next year are playing is likely to be. I'm more excited about the capabilities that Boeing will demonstrate in bringing that next year playing to the marketplace. There's just so much good there. And we have a market that wants to grow every year. We'll get out. We'll recover to the 2019 levels and we'll get right back to growth because people want to travel. They want to see each other. If not for personal reasons, business travel in my view will come back in a big robust way. Why? Because it feeds on competition. You and I both know competition is fierce. So anyway, I see that end game every day, all day. I think about it. And my job is to make sure that we position ourselves as well and as disciplined as we can to realize that future and we will. I love how you say you love Boeing so much and you're so passionate about it. And you feel like you're changing the world. And earlier you said, you know, there's some things I can talk about, some things I can't. Tell us about the things you can talk about that you really believe you're changing the world. Well, you know, broadly speaking and across our defense portfolio, the subject of autonomy comes up all the time. And of course we all got enamored with it on cars, right? So so forth. But autonomy, you know, in aviation is here and now and it's getting quite capable to do a lot of things. We have an autonomous teaming airplane in Australia that we built alongside our Australian partners and their Air Force. This autonomous teamer will couple up with any one of the big tactical fighters that are out there. And what's that do? It just increases the capability of the fighter itself. Multiple targets all around it, protecting it, protecting its space, delivering on the initial capabilities and other things when that time is right. We have an autonomous vehicle that refills airplanes. That's remarkable. And it lands on a carrier. This is stuff that you and I dreamed about. This is real. It's here and it's now and the industry's moving forward on it. And I believe we're at the leading edge. You know, you and I have a really good chance of flying on an airplane that we are developing under a company called WISC. We are the majority show owner. This is a company that we teamed up with Larry Page. Of course, you know, the founder of Google. This airplane's amazing. It's all electric. It can displace all of that incredibly loud, inefficient, high emission helicopter traffic that supports urban markets and then many other discrete markets around this country and around the world. It'll take noise down, you know, eightfold so that it's no longer a nuisance, putting away on it about eight blades that create vertical lift. It's amazing. It's electric. It's also autonomous. Now do I think the regulators will let us deliver autonomy on day one? Probably not. It'll be capable. So we may have a concierge in the front seat. I don't know. We'll all work that out with our regulators. But that will all happen and it's not going to take a decade. And this airplane's already flown a couple thousand times and with zero flaws. So this stuff's all right here and now. Haven't even talked about space and connectivity in space. There's just a ton of opportunity. We continue to develop and deliver on that development. We're not afraid to take in big program risks. We never will be. We have to. The country relies on us to do that and we deliver and that's the key to it. And a commercial space can be just as exciting. And like I said, I think about the next airplane and the capabilities we'll bring to it. I think it'll be differentiated relative to everything we've brought previously . What's your take on what Bezos is doing and Virgin Airlines? What they're doing to take people into space? I love it. I mean, how do you not? We were losing track of space as a country and as a public. Other than just purely in defense terms. And I just think the attention that it has brought to space and now we get in a lot of engineers interested in space than they've ever been. So I couldn't be happier with it. We operate and compete in a slightly different space than they do. I welcome to compete in that space that we're in. It's a little further out there and it's meant to break some real barriers. We'd like to introduce the first rocket that will in fact take us to Mars. This is the kind of stuff we work on. And anyway, I couldn't be happier that everybody here is bringing attention to what is an undernourished resource quite frankly. I couldn't agree more. I saw Dave where your board recently moved the retirement age for CEO from 65 to 70. You're 64. So that's obviously a huge vote of confidence. You know, I love our board. They know I'm in it. I've always told them, you get to control what you want to say on the governance front about my age and all that kind of stuff. I'll let you know if I ever lose my enthusiasm. I doubt that will ever happen. And as you can probably tell, when I do something like this, I realize just how much fun I am having and how important our work is. So yeah, I love my relationship with a board. We have an incredible chair. Myri Kellner, he came from the industry. He's done a terrific job. People don't notice, but he's engineered on frankly a lot of changes on that board in a very big way. We've all been through a big learning curve. Some day we'll write a book on it, but not now. I'm excited and I'm excited to work with the board we got. If you were going to write a story, you mentioned a book, I'll just ask for a story. If you're going to write a story about Boeing five years from now, based on how you see it today, what would that story tell us? It's just resilience, determination, everything in that theme. And I wouldn't start it with what I've experienced. I would remind everybody what the company's been through through all the decades and decades and decades. I just think it has a lot to do with the mission that we have. We protect, connect and explore the world and beyond. Imagine that as a mission. We'd all kill for that one and we have it. And nobody likes to fail ever. Nobody. And so you put your head down, you'll work as hard as you can. You're a little defensive in the early going. Then you begin to embrace everything. Then you begin to discover new things. And it's just revitalization that comes with it. What I've always loved about aviation is and what I think is lost in the media and really lost is how much everybody learns from every miscue or accident in our case. This industry has always had the ability to rally around each other, learn from the mistake, put their very best tactical people on it, learn how to prevent it from ever happening again. It's part of the pedigree and we're part of that. So it would be just around why is it? Boeing didn't run and hide. Why is it they didn't run for cover? Why is it everybody didn't jump ship? Well because we're all about something bigger and it is not the first time the Boeing company will have demonstrated this kind of capability and resiliency. Dave, you are so accomplished. You've been so successful throughout your career. How do you go about personally raising your own game? Well, it's a, you know, what I love about your themes, you know, how to get teams excited out of all those things and now be an introspective about how does a leader do this kind of thing. You know, Dave, I witnessed Welsh for a long period of time. I was not only in the business life, but I was a good golf buddy of his. So we talked about this kind of stuff all the time and what always shocked me about Jack, most accomplished guy in the world, right? The CEO of the century. Every day he walked in the office, every single day, he read something, saw something, call a friend, did something to unhatch another idea, just to challenge everybody about what somebody's doing a little better than we are. Why can't we just figure out how to do it as well? So I think that's part of what I grew up under and probably what I practice, which is I can't go through a day where either through a friend, it might be talking to you or I don't see something somebody's doing that's probably really good for bowing better for us . I got to be smart that I don't bring in 365 new ideas a year, but, but as long as you're surrounding yourself with that kind of stuff and asking the question, can we do that? Should we do that? Let me insert that into our change agenda. This is sort of how you do it. And by the way, especially on the communications front, the I just see leaders who have ways about them that are much better than what I've been practicing. And so all of us are trying to figure out how to touch most of our people or all of our people as frequently as we can, but not the burden. I just think right now, for me, that's really fertile ground to look at the best of the best, ask them how they do it, why they do it, impact, observe that impact and then figure out how I can just keep up in my game on this front because communication in our world in light of the media attention to everything that goes around us. Communication is a really critical skill set right now. And I'd be the last to tell you I'm the best at it. That's for sure. I know your wife, Barbara and your four kids being the world to you. And I know you're a rock. There's no question about that. But tell us about their support and how you balance it all. Yeah, I'll put it in the context of what it is today. And that is their support. They're amazing. Like you know, they just, they keep you humbled no matter what at any time they can make light of the worst of difficulties and all those kinds of things, but also treat it with the seriousness it deserves. So there's, in some ways you see that in their eyes and the way they think about it and the questions they ask and all that kind of stuff. But we can let our air down. I mean, as well as any family can, we don't talk about my business life. They make a comment about, you know, how you doing? What can we do? And then we get right on to, you know, what are we going to do together? When can we all see each other next? Blah, blah, blah. So they're amazing. And they are the story of my life. There will be a day when I will retire from business. That'll be a great day. Because that just means I can wrap myself around them even more. I have four kids. My wife's amazing. And you know, I got a balance somewhere along the way. If you get that question more than I do, I'll bet how do you get balance? Well, you do. And I always just try to observe to people all the aspiring leaders in Boeing. It just had this conversation with a very select group of leaders when they asked the question about balance. I was going to say, can I just make one comment? If you're not balanced at home, if you are not on top of your game at home, you have no chance of succeeding at Boeing. Your body language, everything about what you do and how you behave, it will shred you. So just start where you should. Build that foundation. Make sure you've got that family thing figured out. And then be the best you can in business. I really do think it's that simple, this question and discussion on balance. I want people who love their lives and are comfortable and they come to work and kill themselves at work, but never compromise home. This has been so much fun and I want to have some more with a lightning round of Q&A. Are you ready for this? I'm ready, I guess. Okay. What three words would you say best describe you? I hope. It's always a difficult one. But I would say number one competitive. My mother brought me up that way, been that way since day one through team sports and other things and I love to compete in business. I think the ultimate test is how you do against the one who's faced up with you . And I think sometimes that's forgotten in the business world. So competitive one, you use the word in describing me as approachable. That's the word I hope in my business life. Everybody feels when they're around me or with me because that just means I'm going to hear more and I'm going to listen more. And then finally, I hope the word simple comes up because I like to keep things simple in my personal life and I like to keep things simple in my business life. And so maybe those are the words that come to mind. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why? Wow. So you'll get tired of sports figures. I'd like to be Jordan Spieth. Why? Number one is young, I'd love to do it all over again in whatever form. To me, he is competitive and he is also just an incredible role model in my view. For anybody at that age trying to tackle anything big, right? He always seems to say the right thing and he always seems to have the right reaction at the most competitive moments in his life. So there's just a lot I admire about him and of course, you know, I love the game of golf. So anyway, just for a day, I'd love it. I know you love the game of golf. And I know you're a scrambler too. And he is at the ultimate scrambler. No doubt about that. You know, tell us something about you that few people would know. Well, you know, I, for most of my life and even now I can still ride a unicycle and I like to do it. Because I guess it's something not everybody does. So I don't mind being a little different in that front. Anyway, it's enjoyable and always will be. So that's all I had. And I doubt anybody outside my family knows that. I would have never figured that one out. And that's a hidden talent. Do you have any other hidden talents? I try to lay it all out on the table wherever I am whenever I do. And so I don't think there's anything else I would point to. Where would be your favorite vacation spot and why? Wow. That is a tough one because as you know, my life is taking me pretty much everywhere in the world since a very young age, my life at GE. I enjoyed living in Southeast Asia. I enjoyed all of the resorts and the climate and the places I could visit. So that was probably a highlight in terms of my vacation life and things to see and enjoy and cultures to admire. That is a great place. I couldn't agree with you more. I love Asia. And you mentioned you're a golfer. I also know you're a skier and you get together with your buddies and do that. Which of the two would be your favorite sport and why? Because it's the most exhilarating thing in the world. It's that moment you don't think about one other thing. You get off the lift. You've had a nice conversation with friends that you've gone with and then you just launch. For me, if I'm following somebody really good, then I'm going to be a little better than I really am because I'm watching their rhythm and enjoying it. And I like to go down big verticals because it's just enjoyable. Nothing else enters my mind. Dave, one of the things I've always respected about you is that you just have a lot of friends and a lot of people who really believe in you. What trait do you look for most in the friends that you have? I want them to be real, humble. I don't want to sit around and yap about my business interests all day. I want to talk about our lives, why they're better, why we appreciate the people we're around. Just that kind of stuff. Anyway, and you know the difference. There are always a few folks in the room who are trying to convince you of something. And it usually relates to their prowess at something in it. That wears me out really, really, and a lot. And you know the difference. So I like those folks that really are humble, know how to live a normal life and identify with a big cross-section of the populations. Well, let me tell you this stuff, Dave. You are definitely doing the best you can possibly do, trying to be the best you can possibly be a world-class leader in every respect. And I know that Boeing couldn't be in better hands. And I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this podcast. David, I appreciate your reaching out. I appreciate what you do with these podcasts. It might be my first. You're obviously well-practiced. And then, you know, the reason we like to do this with guys like you is because the leadership you brought to all of your experiences, every single one of them. And the respect you had for your people, the rubber chickens and everything that went with it. So I learned a lot from that. I still do big compliment. And thanks for doing this. Wow. What a conversation. There is no question that Dave has managed through one of the biggest crises in business history. Now, look, not every leader is going to have to deal with an international crisis or a situation which has them land on the front page of the newspaper. Of course, how we define a crisis is relative to each of us, depending on the kind of company that we lead or a kind of company that we're in. But the process to navigate the crisis is something that we can all use to lead our teams well. Let me give you a process that has worked for me. Number one, define reality. People need to know that you don't have your head in the sand and you see the gravity of the situation. Number two, apologize. Take accountability for anything that happens on your watch. Number three, let people know that you're going to get the facts. You're going to understand why this happened and you're going to do everything you can to make sure that it never happens again to the best of your ability. Last but not least, a leader needs to give hope that you're going to come out of this stronger than ever before. One thing you can do is take a history lesson. Look back at the companies who handle a crisis. I guarantee you, when you do, you're going to find that they come out of this stronger than ever before. Johnson & Johnson had a huge title in all crisis, which is probably the most written about crisis in the history of business before the 737 MAX. Believe me, they came back stronger than ever before and I guarantee you, the Boeing company is going to do the same thing under day's leadership. You might be in the middle of a crisis right now or if not, my guess is one could be coming to you soon. I have to tell you, they always came to me when I least expected and when I thought everything was moving full force ahead, but stuff happens and it will happen to you. Follow those steps that I just shared with you and you're going to be a leader that people will see as stable, see as someone that can persevere. You're going to be a leader that others will want to follow. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know how to restore stability in the midst of a crisis. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every thirsty, you get to listen in while I interview some of the best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. I'll see you next week. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]