David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of this episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Scott Mahoney, the Chairman and CEO of Peter mylar. Now I happen to be wearing one of his shirts right now, one of his sweaters right now, one of his pair of slacks right now, I love this guy's line and clothing, believe me, it's unbelievable. You know, I once heard someone say, your core values are only your core values, if they cost you something. That's so true. When a leader says they're all about the customer, you'll know that they actually mean it. When the business is willing to put their money where their mouth is, the great leaders I know go the distance for quality, serving customers the best product they can create. And they're willing to invest in people resources, improve their processes, do whatever it takes to make their product and their services, the absolute best. Now, when Scott talks about putting the customer first to Peter Miller, believe me, he's not just talking the talk, he's walking the talk. In fact, he says it's never about trying to make more margin or trying to take something out of your product. It's always about adding something to your product, it's about the customer being first, not the bottom line being first. Now that's some real wisdom. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Scott Mahoney.

Gotta can't wait to dig into how you lead. But But first, a little background, you team up to by Peter malarkey in 2005, which at that time only had $4 million in revenues, and you had just five employees. Give us a snapshot of your company today.

Scott Mahoney 2:07 

David, we've been able to grow the company to 350 employees we sell around the world. We've grown it since that 2005 Number, probably about 100x. It's pretty amazing what the channel distribution is now with Neiman's stores from 18 retail stores, Big E commerce business. Very, very different company than than the for 4,000,005 employee days.

David Novak 2:37 

No question about that. And you build a power brand. And it is truly a great consumer success story. Scott, before you made the big move to buy Peter Malarkey, you had a tremendous success. Track Record climbing the ladder at Polo? Do you recall an experience there that really changed your career trajectory?

Scott Mahoney 2:58 

Yeah, Ralph Lauren is I would argue the finest apparel brand in the world, the things that they do, and the things they teach you in the, the taste level of Ralph Lauren, and the people that come through there, it's really a, it's the p&g of the apparel world really. And, you know, the things that I learned, I mean, I had a boss for years toy her full, who was the president of the wholesale business, and the things that she taught, which really have stayed with me are the being prepared for meetings being prepared for every occasion. And you never can go into any business meeting, any sales call anything with anyone and not have thought through all the outcomes. And I would say that's one of the great things that stuck with me. The other thing is just the disciplines that you learn it with, with a company that big, it's really kind of helped Peter Moore, kind of formulate who we've become,

David Novak 4:04 

did you have one moment at polo that really, you know, took your career even more forward than then you might have ever thought it would go? Not necessarily

Scott Mahoney 4:13 

one thing in particular, I took over the golf business, the I was running another business within polo, and I took over that and the tennis and that was the first pairing of my love for the game of golf and then with with apparel, and I would say that's probably the trigger that kind of opened my eyes to this world and really kind of gave me the view to what, what I could possibly do down the road. Though I didn't go into that with the intent of of buying Peter Milan or doing something like that, but I knew what it took to kind of build a business and so you pair the golf side with the brand and you're really able to to accelerate some growth. Scott, I'd

David Novak 4:59 

love to hear what Do you learn working with the iconic Ralph Lauren, not the brand, the person and what you what you personally learn from him. You know, David, I

Scott Mahoney 5:09 

think what you learn is when as big as that company is, he cared about every detail, and his passion for the small things and in his taste carried forward in every business. And I think you talked about someone able to keep a culture as you become much bigger. And I think Ralph was able to do that through his kind of demanding, demanding excellence, expecting it and then controlling so many pieces of the business and controlling the brand.

David Novak 5:45 

So you're doing great, Apolo, which you said, and I totally agree. It's one of the finest apparel companies in the world. And you get this idea to buy Peter Milan, or tell us the story about how this came about and how you mustered up the courage to make such a bold move.

Scott Mahoney 6:00 

I was driving back from a USGA meeting, I lived up in Connecticut at the time, and I was at a meeting out in far hills and was making the trek after dinner to Connecticut. And it was a meeting that was just another great meeting with them. We had done a lot of business with them, and just, you know, ideas when you're in a car alone, and you're just kind of driving along, and it hit me I said, I'd seen Peter Moore at various locations. It was really primarily a sweater company at the time a cashmere sweater company, I thought I loved what those guys were doing. And I, it kind of hit me. So I went home the next day, one of the partners I knew from he was in Tennessee, and I, I called him and kind of scheduled a meeting and I ended up flying down to North Carolina met with a three partners, we kind of formulated an idea and a price and actually flew from there to Sea Island met with Bill Jones. And kind of put the whole thing together really in a very, very short period of time, it was, you know, it was a small company. And I did think we could make it something we put the business plan together, I thought we could grow it to a $5 billion company pretty quick, just by doing some basic blocking and tackling added product lines. And the three original partners were wonderful guys, and smart. And we were able to kind of take what they had started and really grow it. And you know, we achieved every milestone along the way but clearly have blown past the 50. Mark, which I did think was was would probably never happen. But we've been very fortunate to that degree. So yeah, I

David Novak 7:45 

would say you blow past it big time, you know, now, Scott, I've learned that you took a half a pay cut. And at the time, you had four kids, did you have any people that you respected tell you that you were crazy when you did this? I mean, what was it that you have inside of you that made you want to go do your own thing?

Scott Mahoney 8:05 

You know, I've always kind of believed in myself and, and I, I would say this was really pretty clear. And it's a, it's strange to say because it was a big leap. You know, my wife, who is my wife, Molly, who you mentioned, it was incredibly supportive. She said, You could do this. But we're not moving to North Carolina, in case this doesn't turn out to be a real opportunity or real company. All the, you know, parallel jobs are in New York, essentially. And so I commuted for about four years. And you know, I just I thought we could do it, I thought there was a hole in the market. You know, the, the business at the time was really to two different businesses. There was a Ralph Lauren, but it was Polo. And then there was another company fairway and green. And they were both really fine companies. But that was it, you know, and so just this kind of clarity came to me and it sounds a little clairvoyant, but it just it made sense. And, and like I said, I thought that 50 million, we could make enough money for all of us to survive and have a pretty good living. And yeah, we just took the big leap

David Novak 9:22 

that has got your vision early on, was to make Peter Mala, a premium lifestyle brand. What exactly do you mean by that? And what was driving you're thinking?

Scott Mahoney 9:33 

Well, you know, again, you've learned from Ralph Lauren who built like, the ultimate lifestyle business. And so what, what that means and how you have to go about that is you have to have the products and to add on to the sweater company, you have to have the sports shirts, the shoes, the other categories that kind of start doing it and yet the thing that we never failed on was we He always delivered incredibly great products at great values. And our infrastructure was such that, you know, being in North Carolina having our distribution center there controlling it all, it allowed us to really give the value where we weren't paying for New York offices, big warehouses in New Jersey are, you know, we ran this thing like a mom and pop shop, and really did everything ourselves. You know, when we traveled, you know, we roomed together, we did little things that kind of you have to do as a small company to make it and I'm proud to say, like, every year we've been in business, we've made money. And a lot of people say, Oh, we're building this to, we're building this, you know, we'll make money soon, or will, you know, these, a lot of tech companies, it's all about revenue numbers. But we've built this where we, every year, we're trying to make money, we run it like it's always have, like, it's our own money. And I think it shows through with the product with the the way we treat the employees, the way we do everything, and it's led us to some great success,

David Novak 11:10 

you know, you've built huge shelf presence in the best golf clubs in the world. Tell us the story of how that happened.

Scott Mahoney 11:18 

One of the things being at Ralph Lauren, early on, I had great relationships in the business, some of my best friends are golf professionals. You know, we hired I would say, the key thing we did along the way was we hired some incredible salespeople. And they allowed us to, and gave us the credibility to go into the shops and get the shelf space and the relationships and anyone can get a few tables in, in a shop, you can always sell a few shirts. But the way that the business takes off is when people keep coming back and back and back, and they want your new products. And we kind of innovate ourselves every every six months. And I think that's allowed us to get the shelf space to become the desire brand. And we actually have a waiting list right now, because we can't sell everybody we want to kind of keep the brand special. And I don't think too many people and too many companies have the discipline to kind of have a control distribution. And, and try to do it the right way. And each of these shops treat each professional, the right way and deliver on time and deliver quality products. And, and that's how we've built this.

David Novak 12:34 

Well, I love your clothing. And I have to tell you, I go to a lot of golf shops. It's hard to find anything but Peter miroir. I also know your first big retail account was Nordstrom, that had to be a huge shot in the arm. Tell us how you went about landing such a prestigious retailer.

Scott Mahoney 12:55 

You know, again, go back to the salespeople, one of our sales folks out on the West Coast had a good relationship out there. And, you know, so that business started and we nurtured the relationship. And, you know, I think we're one of the top two or three men's brands at Nordstrom. And, you know, then I'll tell you, David, the next one that was really the I think, yeah, there's few strokes of luck along the way in any business, I think and a funny story about Neiman Marcus. Jim Gould, who was the president Neiman Marcus, who's a wonderful guy was up in Boston playing in a member guest at a club with just this gentleman and the guy had a shirt on. And Jim gold kept hearing the guy rave about this company, Peter Maher Peter Moyer and he didn't know who it was. And so when he went back to his office, he got on the phone and he called our general mailbox, you know, Peter bar one 800 Peter Milan or whatever the number was and left a message that this is Jim gold from I'm the president Neiman Marcus, I'd love for someone to have from So for somebody to call me Peter malarkey. And we'd love to put it in. And we we actually thought someone was punking us and so we call them and and he was serious. And he was very passionate about building a business. And so we grew with Neiman Marcus into probably for two or three years straight. We're the number one men's brand number one men's growth. And so with that, Neiman's endorsed him in the golf accounts and what's been able to happen is it's just given us kind of brand credibility from a men's lifestyle apparel business and we have our own stores now the E commerce business is quite good. We sell great specialty stores across this country. So kind of a multiple channels, which is a pretty good hedge as the economy kind of goes up and down.

David Novak 14:55 

You know, I understand that. You've talked about adding a little value at every shipment you ship To the customer has a signature meant inside the box. What's the thinking behind that,

Scott Mahoney 15:05 

you know, when that started, it was really clever, I'd say, you know, the early the early team, and then it's even taking different forms. But you know, the key to any business in ours, it's getting your product on the floor fast. And so the, the way that we would try to do it is we wanted when our box arrived, it had a mint in it. And so the person in the stock room or wherever was, was dying to open the box to get the mint out, then the next key was to make it easy for the people within the within the shop. So sometimes people just throw product in, they pick it, they pack it, and it's just there. And it's a jumbled mess, they don't have the proper paperwork. So we use colored paper, so that our paperwork was always orange, they knew when the Peter Mar product was in, it was orange, the next thing we did was, we stacked it in the order the product in the box in the order of on the packing slip. So the idea again went back to you sell at the fastest was on the floor, you don't sell it within about when it's in a box. And so we just really wanted to make it easy and something that people wanted to deal with and get the product out.

David Novak 16:20 

I love this story. You know, Scott always like to get inside of the head of a leader and how you make a big decision. Tell us why you decided to get into the brick and mortar side of the business, opening your first retail store in South Hampton, New York a little over 10 years ago.

Scott Mahoney 16:38 

You know, what's interesting about our company is it's so much more diverse than people realize. So like if you only shop at a golf shop, you'll see a lot of times just our performance shirts, and maybe some sweaters and outerwear. But we make beautiful suits. We make great sport coats, we make all kinds of different trousers, we make sports shirts, we we have underwear, we have socks, we have shoes, and the only way to show some of the diverse products was by doing your own brick and mortar and Southampton grant, that's a very small store, it was a good foray into our own store business. I mean, we we opened you're not long after that we opened Palm Beach, and we have 1718 stores now. You know, again, the idea was to display our lifestyle product and give someone the ability to go in and see it. And this was really even pre pre internet pre web econ business exploding. You know, this was one of the few ways you could really see people's product and, and that was the idea. And you know, and coupled with the store, we launched a catalog, which was the same principle was to do the exact same thing. It was to go to a broad audience and show them that we do more than just golf shirts or just more than shorts. Was that a physical catalog or webcam law? No, a physical catalog? And we still do it actually. Yeah, and then you know, people say, you know, brick and mortars is dead or Yeah, you gotta let you know we want to we're gonna probably open over the course of next 24 months and other 1520 stores strategically placed and you know, smaller markets. The catalog that we did was a was a mail order catalog, you know, with great imagery, we tried to show the lifestyle we've done know, along those same lines we just launched you know, again, trying to separate ourselves from others. We just launched the crown Journal, The idea there was to just take people we admired in the world you know, whether it's Thomas Keller will be featured in this next the famous chef we have Gil Hanson our next issue we have a great gin company chemists gin, which make the finest gin and maybe in the world but taking those kinds of things and associate them with our brand kind of diversifies us a little bit features different things and makes it interesting while all the while showing our great lifestyle apparel.

David Novak 19:14 

Did you develop the crown logo Scott?

Scott Mahoney 19:16 

No, that kind of morphed over time. When I left Ralph Lauren I didn't really appreciate how difficult it is to have a a logo and if you really think about there's not many iconic logos out there you know the polo player obviously is one but you know we tried to do we did a crown we did have one with a big shield for a while we did a multicolor we dropped the shield left the crown I would say it's still actually a work in progress. We quite haven't mastered it but we do want a build identify or close outwardly when people like your guys not a garish guy but he does like having some symbol, you know that he's got, you know our shorts on and that's why you'll see it on the pocket or on the back yoke of an outerwear piece. But we are still fiddling with it trying to figure out the perfect way to do it.

David Novak 20:18 

He will I'm sure you're gonna figure it out. In the same year you open up that store in Southampton, you get the honor of dressing the United States presidents cups golf team, the brand isn't that well known at the time? How do you break through the clutter and get such a prestigious opportunity.

Scott Mahoney 20:39 

As the brand grew, I met a really believe that people loved our quality. And they loved our style. We had very classic, but you know, updated styling. And you know, it just we became quickly I think kind of the premier brand and golf and and it was because of a controlled distribution is because of great products we delivered. People love cashmere people love at the time that was mercerized cotton shirts really kind of pre performance. Yeah, then, yes, several years after that Corey came to us and we did the the Ryder Cup team in Wales. And no, those were not our rain jackets. But that, you know, there was a little bit of trouble that they had with the rain jackets at the time. But it just was some great honors we had, we had a great relationship with Title List. David, I mean that you know that you talk about strokes of luck, you know, Wally Uline, came to us years ago, and he wanted to marry a apparel brand up a bit with Title List. And this was pre them launching FootJoy, which has done really well. But while he came to us, and you wanted his title his players to wear a brand. And he came and we forged a partnership. And we had 30 of the best players on the tour title is players out there wearing Peter Malala. And, again, just these are all little pieces, you know, the foundation of the brand we've been able to build over time. And I don't think there's one thing that attributes to the success, but there's just a lot of pieces that contributed to it.

David Novak 22:17 

Well, you can be lucky once but you're not lucky a lot. Lot, you know all the time. If so you guys have really put a string of good big wins together. And you were one of the first brands to launch e commerce when it wasn't really that vogue to do it. You know, it seems like a no brainer. Now to everybody else. When did you have the aha moment? When you knew it was a must for the company? You said I'm going to bite the bullet and we're gonna make this investment in technology.

Scott Mahoney 22:44 

Yeah, my my brother's been in that business for a while. And it just a whole different category. And we used to talk about it. And, you know, it was a real challenge at the time because of the channel conflicts. You know? Yeah, this was, like you said this was early on. And you know, we had great relationships with specialty stores and golf shops, and they didn't necessarily see it as additive. And what, what the tough thing was explaining that it's a big world out there, and not many people could see are going into the pro shop in Jackson, Mississippi, or wherever it may be. And so we started by my daughter was a this is this was kind of a funny story. She was actually the second employee, she processed manually processed orders while she was in high school, and she worked with another lady. And then several years ago, we hired a gentleman. And contrary to what you just said, about luck, David, we have had an incredible string of luck. But we hired a gentleman and he came to us and he was in the sneaker business and wanted to move this way. And we gave him a lot of autonomy to build a team and the disciplines that he's put in place. Yeah, we, we have just got off two meetings today and g4 and Peter Milan are about ecom and to see what these folks do and how they go about it, it's the success isn't surprising because of the effort they put in and the thoughtfulness but you know, we run it all ourselves. We use some partners that we have to but we we shoot everything ourselves, we have our own photo studios, we manage our own artistic direction we you know, we kind of control everything, the digital marketing the different teams are really quite good.

David Novak 24:40 

You know, there's been a digital explosion, across retail with with the pandemic, how has it affected your business and how are you taking digital now to the next level? You just said you had a couple meetings on it. What's what's coming?

Scott Mahoney 24:54 

Well, you know, it's, it's really expanding it and you know it It's probably the largest area in the company where we've added talent. And it's a different kind of talent. It's not talent that I would come close to ever having. It's, it's these, these young folks that come in, you know, we're lucky. We're in Raleigh, North Carolina, which is a very desirable place to live. But we're able to bring talent from New York and Boston. And so the first part of your question was about the pandemic was, I would say, during the pandemic, it really saved us. Because especially stores were closed demon's Barcus, Nordstrom were closed in, in this business, you have to plan six months ahead. It's not like you anyone really knew what, what was really coming. And so we had inventory here. And then we had inventory on the way for the fall season. And, you know, we were able to get through that time by by running the business, in a disciplined fashion through our E commerce channel. You know, it helps us acquire customers. But the nice thing now is we're starting to see the other businesses all come back. Neiman, Marcus, Nordstrom are coming back, specialty stores are coming back. And so I think, I think the main thing we need to do now is really triangulate all the components of the business. So you have the E commerce business, you have the specialty business, and then you have the marketing of products that you have to tie to it, along with the planning and the inventory. It's a bit of a circular reference. And, and that's, that's really the focus nowadays.

David Novak 26:37 

You know, while we're on the topic of COVID, how much do you think the way we have worked is changed forever? And what do you see happening in that at Peter Miller, once things get back to normal?

Scott Mahoney 26:48 

That's a great question. And I don't really have a great answer yet, other than to say that, you know, we empower our teams, and we don't, we're not monitoring their computers and the some of these things you hear out there, we believe in our people, and I don't think we missed a beat not being in the office. So the warehouse was obviously open, we have to ship product and, and the warehouse team took steps to, to make it a safe place where there were teams of three and not, you know, not the entire warehouse working conjunction like they normally do. But, and then the design team was in, and then the photo studios and because those areas have to continue and collaborate, I would say going forward, there's going to be a definite hybrid for us, you know, the finance team, the customer service team, they, they have their work to do, and whether they're at home and not having to drive 30 minutes or 20 minutes or 45 minutes. They get their work done. And I it's it's actually a great feeling to see what our company has been able to accomplish in this past year, by not missing a beat by trusting each other by learning how to communicate differently. And I think that going forward, I think there will be a hybrid for us. And just one one last note on that. You know, it's funny, we built a new facility. So we have two offices, we have a downtown office, which is an old mill building, and then we built a 120,000 square foot warehouse. And we're on pace to outgrow our warehouse again, and this is our third warehouse in 12 years. And you could say it's poor planning, I say it's being conservative, but this the office space we're about out of office space, and the structure that we're going to go, probably going forward, you know, starting in September is my guests will be a bit that hybrid will allow us to, to be to function in the space we have and I think you're gonna see a lot of that as opposed to us having to try and take different spaces, different warehouses, and so that is one one nice byproduct of what we've been able to learn. Now

David Novak 29:14 

scotchy by Peter Braemar, your private company, then reach my advise you and that's owned by the renowned Johann Rupert. He's one of the world's best businessmen. What have you learned working with him? What has he taught you about leadership? A lot.

Scott Mahoney 29:32 

He's an amazing man and his his breadth of knowledge and passion. You know, I see how he interacts with all the different businesses he has and the level of information that he knows is amazing, but I would say the thing that I most admire is his loyalty and how he treats people. We work well with the response team, but Johan has been very, very great to not take or entrepreneurial spirit away from us. You know, sometimes when you're acquired by a big company that can happen, and, you know, I would say, if anything, they've given us confidence to take some chances, they've, they've given us some disciplines that are needed in an entrepreneurial business. And the thing that I'm incredibly proud of is, since they bought us we've probably grown our business, you know, probably seven or eight acts. And, you know, since 2012. You know, I think, you know, we always feel like our entire team feels like, they've been great to us, we have an obligation to deliver. And, you know, and I will go back to that one thing about Johan, it's, it's not about margin, it's doing it right. It's controlling distribution, it's doing the right things, it's treating your customers, right, making your products great. And having integrity in your company and in your products. And I think if you look across their entire portfolio, that's what you'll see.

David Novak 31:05 

How are you approaching? Building a global business? Scott,

Scott Mahoney 31:10 

I will say that's an area where respond has been a tremendous help. You know, we're just launching GE for in Korea, Japan, China, right now. And, you know, some of the, they've got experience there. They've got offices there. We've we've done well, with the Peter mylar brand, and, you know, traditional places where Americans go, Ireland, UK, you know, but as we really want to grow the business and the brand globally, we need more expertise. And I think that's, I think one of the really key areas, that response helped us, the disciplines over there and understand the partnerships. And it's very, very different how you go about a market, you know, the fact that Korea is, is important it is and how that sets the tone for a lot of Asians is, is really critical.

David Novak 32:09 

In a Scott that so many brands, particularly in fashion, lose their way by trying to be something that they're not. Was there ever a time you got outside of your lane as a brand? And what did you learn from it?

Scott Mahoney 32:22 

We had a company come to us several years ago about doing a furniture line. And, you know, that seems like, Oh, what a great, easy thing to do. Yeah, it's a great brand extension furniture? Well, the reality is, we don't know anything about furniture. Yeah, we know a lot about clothes, we're really pretty good at this business. I think if we tried to stray out of our lanes, and we wisely passed on that, and that would have been guaranteed royalties and a nice bit of money. And, and I think, you know, avoiding chasing the dollar for products that you don't know or believe in, doesn't really work. And I think we've had the discipline to stay away from things. And I would say that's probably not being in the furniture business is probably the best thing we've done.

David Novak 33:15 

I would agree with what do you do to keep your team on top of the trends in the industry? And keep yourself on top of those trends? And what do you think your company does uniquely to drive innovation?

Scott Mahoney 33:32 

David, to be successful in this business, I think you have to have a passion for it. You have to, you know, this may sound a bit trite, but you've got to be you got to shop, you got to shot the market, you have to understand the competition, you have to understand who does what, well, in every category, you can't just say, oh, that's that I understand that company. Well, there, there may be a great pant company out there. You need to understand what they're doing and why. You know, our teams travel the world. We have a fabric development team that's constantly trying to innovate new fabrics. Like I said, we try to innovate ourselves, you know, every six months, you know, back two or three years ago, we launched a, an athleisure line of kind of a Lululemon line. And what happened was, we found out that, at that time, people didn't really want that from us. But it it kind of gave people an insight to a different part of our company. And we're actually coming back with it again now because, you know, is this casualization to taking effect, you know, people more casual working out walking more, go to the gym, hanging out on Zoom calls, and you know, so we're kind of relaunching that but we constantly look for niches, and then product categories and new fabrics, and then paying attention to the competition. Whether it's someone is, is you know, hi And as Laura peon or Cuccinelli, or, you know, even down to different, you know, Instagram brands that are out there, you kind of have to pay attention, everyone, and the minute you fall asleep, you're done. And I would say, that's kind of how we were able to get Peter Mullard going, I think we really snuck up on everybody. And, you know, and I don't, I don't want to say there was from other companies, laziness, but they just didn't pay attention. And, and we're not going to do that.

David Novak 35:32 

Well, now you're the big bear that could get poked, so I'm sure you're really pushing everybody to stay on top of that same mindset that you had when you grew the business. You know, you did make a You've mentioned a couple times, you made an incredible acquisition with the, with the g4 Golf shoe brand, what led you to this brand, and why is it been such a huge home run?

Scott Mahoney 35:55 

You know, I, we always admired what they did. And so is funny talk about innovation, Dave, and we were sitting around to a meeting, there, probably 10 of us in there. And we said, We'd like we want to, we need to kind of try to feel a little younger, and do something different. And g4 has this really creative edge to them. And so I do Massimo and I called him and his team and I said we'd love to do a collaboration with you. And so we did this collaboration, we launched these three different golf shoes with them and, and they were wildly successful. But what blew me away was the speed with which they were able to kind of come up with the concepts. And so we came up with these concepts quickly. And we did this and they were such a pleasure to work with. But we also learned along the way was they didn't really have the infrastructure. And we've built a pretty good machine that Peter Maher, you know in that machine includes the finance team, accounts receivable, accounts payable, production, planning, all these parts that oftentimes are behind the scenes that no one really appreciates on the on the consumer end. And so what we're able to do was we kind of went to them and, you know, again, there's just a bit of an idea to say, look, we want to buy you guys, and you know, what will it take. And we all got along really, really well, which I think was was critical. You know, we've given them creative freedom, but we've taken all their back office, and we've put a lot of our expertise that we have as a company, whether it's the E commerce side, whether it's a digital side, digital marketing, the production, the sourcing, the planning, all these things, and it's really allowed us to really grow that business so much faster than they could have. had they gotten involved with a P firm or anyone else. It was just, it was maximizing our expertises

David Novak 38:02 

you know, Scott, you give credit to all these different functions and you're renowned for being an outstanding people person. Describe the culture you're you're building, and, and how you plan to evolve. And as you think about the next five to 10 years.

Scott Mahoney 38:20 

Yeah, the biggest challenge I think we faced a little bit, then this zoom world we're living in now really makes it even more difficult. We've got a culture where we treat people great. I truly believe that Willie. And they love the company and they love the brand. And people are proud to work for this company, because they go home and their families, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their wives all all love our products. And so yeah, so we've got that going for us. But this customer service, this, this, this life of living for our customers, and loving what you do, and not settling for the status quo is a real challenge as you bring in all these different new people. And so we've really emphasize during this time to work with your teams, we had communications every week for the early part of this and it went to monthly, but you have to communicate, you have to tell people, you have to let them believe in what you're doing and the trust that you gained from them that you're giving them a safe work environment. You know, during this during the pandemic, we did not lay off one person. We you know, and that includes our store teams. So think about that, David, our New York store was closed and we didn't lay off the employees we continue to pay them. You know, you do things like that and you people see that and you know the loyalty and trust that comes that you're actually out there to provide a great life for people resonates, and then they understand it. I'll share one other story for you just a customer service story. And so one of our early employees is a guy named Alan row. And it was December 23. And a customer called him at five o'clock and said, Oh, I forgot I needed the sweater for my customer. In UPS and FedEx were all gone. And, and so what Allen road did was he went pick the sweater himself in the warehouse, drove it to the airport, and got it on a FedEx plane going out somehow, however, he figured this out. So the customer could have it on Christmas Eve day for one sweater. And, you know, that's that kind of goes along the stories of the Nordstrom people, you know, taking back a tire, you know, even though they don't sell tires, they, you know, they're their services, they'll take back anything. But that's what our service commitment is. And, and I think that's what we try to really instill in every employee we have is that care for one unit, and that carries forward and forward, so

David Novak 41:13 

So you just basically are trying to make sure you keep that core element of your culture going as you think to the future, because you're growing so fast, it's harder and harder to do. Exactly. You know, Scott leadership is about taking people from B to we, when you look back, what would be your biggest example of taking people with you?

Scott Mahoney 41:32 

Yeah, it was funny when we, when we first bought Peter malarkey. And I felt an obligation that if a big mistake was going to be made, it was going to be mine. So for the first five years of the company, every stitch that came into our building, I essentially bought, I did the planning, and I would sit with other folks, but I would say we're gonna buy 400 of that, or 800, that or 200. And it was my number that I would put down. Because that's, that's how businesses die is inventory, bad inventory management. And I would say, it got to a point where it just couldn't do it anymore, and turning that over to a team. So I for a couple of years, I still sat with them on every buy. And now we have an entire team that does that. But I would say David, like early in an entrepreneurial business, you've you've got to have your hands in everything. And they're just there gets to a point where you just have to truly trust everybody. And you know, what's wonderful is and it's been like this for a long time here is I think we all have a trust in each other and a respect for each other. It doesn't mean we don't challenge each other doesn't mean we don't push. But the respect and trust allows us to kind of step into our lane, focus on what we need to focus on. You know, a lot of what I need to focus on now is the the human part of it, the development part of it, the mentorship of our employees, you know, kind of identifying the holes where we need to grow the holes where we need to find talent. But I would go back to the old planning is the kind of the bit of the aha moment where you just can't do it all anymore.

David Novak 43:30 

Guys, you've had so much success. But every leader has a big fail somewhere along the line, what's yours? And what did you learn from it?

Scott Mahoney 43:38 

You know, we first got in the short business. And we met a guy and he said he can make great shorts, and we bought the shorts kind of sight unseen to do it and, and they were terrible. And certainly you do something, we sold a lot of them and you start losing your brand credibility. So it was an inferior product we made and there was another time just around the same time that we we have hazard li changed the fit of our sports shirts, which is a big category for us. And so we went through an entire year of trying to figure out bad shorts, shirts that were like the shoulders were in it was just it was terrible. And, you know, we stood by it, we didn't deliver some of it. Some of it worked, some sizes worked. But we had the relationships that allowed us to stay in business. But what it teaches you is not to take shortcuts, whether it's product development, whether it's specking out your products. It's it's literally taking the time to do things right and not rushing into decisions. Though we do need to be nimble. You've certainly

David Novak 44:55 

survived from those mistakes and building a tremendous brand, Scott. This has been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more. I want to wrap this up with a lightning round of q&a. Are you ready to go?

Scott Mahoney 45:07 

I'm ready for you.

David Novak 45:08 

Okay, what three words best describe you?

Scott Mahoney 45:13 

Maybe competitive. Passionate? Fair.

David Novak 45:19 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Scott Mahoney 45:20 

tardiness. I love meeting starting on time i i worked for years where you'd wait and you'd wait. And now if you don't show up the door gets locked on. Yeah.

David Novak 45:37 

What is something about you that few people would know?

Scott Mahoney 45:41 

My first job out of college was with Union Carbide. I sold industrial gas.

David Novak 45:50 

Do you have a hidden talents got?

Scott Mahoney 45:54 

No can't sing. Can't dance. I love to cook, go.

David Novak 46:00 

There you go. That's That's good. What leader do you admire most today and why?

Scott Mahoney 46:06 

This isn't brown nose. Mr. rooper. But I love the bandwidth that people have in the passion for his businesses. And I think he exudes that when you talk to him. And I think he's an incredible leader. I really do. And I, I think, I think just the knowledge that you that someone has about each business and how deep they go, and then the caring of the employees is is critical. Quality to me,

David Novak 46:38 

you know, speaking of leaders got what what would be three bits of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders.

Scott Mahoney 46:44 

I think you got to be willing to take a chance. You've got to be willing to make a mistake. And I think if you can find a passion. It's not easy. Because yeah, I was incredibly fortunate. I love the apparel business. And I love the game of golf. And so I was able to marry the two. But if you can find a passion, you know, if it's selling, and it's selling for selling anything. I think you gotta follow your heart. And it's not always following $1 If the money will come. And so I would say those are the three.

David Novak 47:23 

You know, Scott, you know, you mentioned passion, and you're a passionate family, man. What have you learned about leadership? And, and, and being a passionate family man?

Scott Mahoney 47:36 

I think there's a time and a place for everything I you know, I try not ever to bring any work stress home with me. I think you've got to spend time with your family, I think you have to, you know, we try to do little things in the company where we give extra days off we do summer, several summer Fridays. It's little things like that, that allow people to spend extra time with their families. I think. And I think also, you know, my uncle taught me something that was kind of interesting, I'll share this with you. David was, you know, he ran a bank up in Boston. And when his executives would go overseas or any of his team, he would send flowers to their wives, you and as a company, we we do the same thing here. And as a company, when you show that you care about someone's family, you if someone's gone for 10 days, to China, and you send flowers to their wife to bring a little happiness to their family while their significant others gone. It's things like that, that kind of marry the business part and the family part. And we try to live that.

David Novak 48:51 

Well, I think that's wonderful. And I think that's a great place to end this conversation. Scott, I want to thank you so much for sharing the Peter Malala story and being the kind of leader you are, you know, you're compassionate and you care and your people obviously know it, and you're getting fantastic results.

Scott Mahoney 49:11 

Well, thank you, David. I just, I love what you do, and I find it inspiring, so thank you

David Novak 49:27 

well, that was an insightful interview with Scott Mahoney, because what he talked about is essential to any business. If you don't have great quality, you're not going to have a great business for very long. It reminds me of when I first took over as president of Pizza Hut, I realized that the reason why the business was in the tank was that the Pizza Hut folks, for whatever reason, had taken the product quality down by trying to save money, reducing the number of toppings, reducing the quality of the toppings. So we went back and created the product. called lightning bolt. And guess what we did, we put more toppings on our pizza and higher quality ingredients on our pizza. And you know what happened, the business turned around and the sales went up because our customers were happy, we quickly reclaimed the number one spot and quality. This commitment to quality works for brands like Peter Milan bar and pizzas in any category that you can possibly imagine. Now, here's what I'd love for you to do. Think about one aspect of your business that's directly impacting your customers. It could be the product that you deliver a marketing email that you send. Heck, it can even be as something as simple as a process for generating invoices. Now, ask yourself this. How can you improve the quality of your customers experience at whatever touch point that you choose? Write down some ideas this week, and then block out a little time on your calendar to execute at least one of those ideas. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders go the distance for quality. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple in each episode that you can apply to your business so that you can become the best possible leader you can be. I'll see you next week.