Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well as my fellow golf fans know, the PGA Championship tees off today at Oak Hills East in Rochester. Now I absolutely love this tournament, and if you were watching it last year, then you got to see my guest today, Justin Thomas, make an absolute epic comeback. He came from seven strokes back to win in a playoff and notches second win in a major. He's an extraordinary player who is so much fun to watch, and you know, he also knows a thing or two about leadership. When you listen to Justin, it's clear. He knows how to manage his own mindset. That's true for great golfers, and it's just as true for great leaders. You've got to understand how much your mentality affects your performance and your team. If you're not intentional about what's going on inside your own head, it can really cost you. So listen up, whether you're a golf fan or not, Justin has so many great insights that will help you manage your own mindset better. Plus, I got to tell you, he's got some great stories you're going to want to hear about Tiger Woods and Tom Brady too. So this is going to be a lot of fun. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Justin Thomas. Now look, JT, we're going to talk about your incredible career that you've had so far. Your 15 victories, your two majors, getting to number one in the world. But first, I got to ask you this one. Take us back to the 18th tee at St. Andrews during the first round of the Open Championship. What the heck happened? Wow, I'm not going to lie. I didn't think I was going to be an Open. Yeah, it was right after I made my first bogey the day. I think it was at 17. I made double. I mean, 18 being downwind is about as I don't want to say easy of a birdie as you can get out there, but it's about as easy of a birdie as you can get out there. I mean, it was to the point where I felt like I could hit five foot on the green. I just tried to burn a five wood and I burned it all right. I skipped it over the burn. That's right in front of the tee. I kind of feel topped it. And yeah, I was trying to maybe hit it up the left side to have an angle to chip up the green, but I wasn't planning on hitting it the left side and having 120 yards in. So I'm very lucky. It didn't go in the burn. I'm lucky. It didn't go out of bounds and I'm lucky that that video hasn't gone viral. Well, I got to tell you the reason why I ask you this is that great leaders, you have to bounce back. Walk me through your thought process hitting that next shot. You got to hit the next shot. You got that 125 wedge and also what was in your head standing on the 18th tee box the very next day? Well, the next day was a driver and I felt a little bit better about it being on a tee and a little bit bigger face. And I mean, I knew I was playing with Shane, Flowery and Victor and I know Shane a little bit better than Victor. And as soon as I hit it, I mean, instantly when it was going straight and got in the air, Shane just gives me an immediate, most improved award and I knew it was coming. I had deserved every bit of that. And yeah, I mean, on the second shot, you really just have to somehow try to get over that. I mean, I've never taken a walk of Shane in a Thursday round before, but I felt like that walk to my ball was definitely the walk of Shane. I'd love to see a dispersion of everybody's tee shots that day and it'd be like everybody's would be here. Mine would be the outlier somewhere back in there. But it just was like anything. You know, I couldn't let it get to me and I still had a chance. It wasn't a very good chance, but I started a chance to make a three and you know, I couldn't compound the mistake and ended up making five. The shot was bad enough. I didn't need to make it worse. How have you found the balance between learning from your failures and trying to stay focused on the positive? How do you do that? It's tough. I mean, it's something I think, at least me personally, I just go on waves. You know, there's times where it seems easy to when you get done maybe from a bad week, it's okay. Well, you know, this week I do a lot of good things, but I maybe just got a little bit ahead of myself there in the end of that Friday round and I was too aggressive and started a back nine on Saturday and you know, I took a couple chances that I shouldn't have taken. And if I don't do any of those things, I have a chance to win versus there's some weeks, you might do the exact same thing and you get done and all you can think about is how dumb those mistakes you made were and why did you do them? And always just looking at the negative side of it. But the sooner that I realized that I have those opportunities to learn from the mistakes that I made, definitely the sooner off I started playing better golf and having a lot better things happen for me. So it's really just trying to, I mean, it's the same as everything, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're David Novak, Justin Thomas or Tiger Woods, Rory Mac or whatever it is. It's like if you just wake up some days and you're just not in it, you know, you're just whether you don't get, you know, good sleep or swing doesn't feel good or you maybe don't like the golf course as much as just you're irritable or whatever it is. But those are the days I think that separates the good and the great players is managing those days and weeks the best you can. Was it harder for you to win your first major championship or your first PGA or your second? My second. It was definitely harder to win my second than my first. I think I don't know why it was. I think I put a lot of pressure on myself to win the first one. You know, Jordan had already won three at a younger age and you know, I had some of my other peers, you know, Brooks was starting to fire some majors off and it just was like, you know, I didn't want to get left behind and I felt like I was as good as those guys. But then it's like you win the first one and then you expect, okay, now the floodgates are open and then, you know, I'm going to start winning. But at the end of the day, you only have four chances every year. And I think that's the hardest part about it is that it's taken me a little bit honestly to kind of figure out what works for me to be as prepared and ready as possible for the majors. You know, I played before a couple of them last year, taking the weeks off and sometimes in past taking weeks off, I haven't necessarily spent that week properly. I've almost over practiced and burnt myself out before going into it and I've taken vacations before it. There's a lot of different ways to do it at the end of the day. It's just what works best for you. And for me being in a good mindset and feeling fresh mentally, physically, you know, going there feeling like I'm not necessarily trying to maintain a really good game. But the longer and more years that went by, the more I kind of started thinking , a lot of people have won one major and anybody can win one major. But you need to win multiple to kind of be in my opinion known as a multiple major winner and a great player. Not that great players don't win one major, but you know what I mean. You got anybody can win one. Well, not anybody, but you certainly did one and you did two and there'll be many more in your future, I'm sure. Now whether in golf or in business, leaders need to learn how to play when they 're behind. And at Southern Hills last year, you were seven shots back going into the final round. Comparing contrast your I'm behind mindset versus your I'm in the lead mindset. I think they're both very situational only in the sense of how many are maybe how many behind are you, but how many people are ahead of you. I think there's a huge difference of, you know, going into a Sunday of a major, I'd probably rather be four back, but only have three or four people in front of me versus two back and have eight people in front of me. You know, that's a big, big difference. And that's what I felt like gave me a chance in the PGA on Sunday at Southern Hills. It was like usually when you're seven back, you know, you're in 15th place, maybe 20th, 25th and I was in seven. I mean, I had six people ahead of me. None of them had won on tour. None of them had won a major, I don't think. So it was like, I know that they're going to be nervous. I'm going to be nervous, but they're really going to be nervous too. So I just need to go out and I'm going to have to beat them at the end of the day, but I'm going to have to rely on a little bit of help as well. And you know, that's what I tried to do. I just try to put my head down, not get wrapped up in leaderboards, not worried about how far back I was, but just make as many birdies as I could when I had opportunities and see where it put me at the end. Unfortunately, it was enough. How about when you're ahead? I mean, is that harder for you? I like it. I think it's situational in the golf course. You know, I've played with leads at places like I call it a Malaysia, you know, where 25 high 20 under wins and it's not like I played with the lead at Akron before. And you know, I just fairway green two pot fairway green two pot fairway green two pot and it's just, it's kind of the tiger method of just don't make a bogey and you know, three pots, no, no dumb bogeys and they're really going to have to catch you because I'm going to be good enough to make a couple birdies. But when you're playing those easier courses, it's really for me of some lead by two. I need to try to lead by three. I'm leading my three needs before and it just, I don't want to necessarily look backward of, you know, okay, how close are they getting to me? But it's a just try to improve and get a little, you know, get one shot more, get one shot more and really just honestly try to step on their throat kind of thing because they're all gunning for you and you need to have the same mentality. You mentioned nerves a little earlier and I've heard you say if you're not nervous, it doesn't mean anything to you. How have you learned to manage your emotions in those moments that other leaders can apply in their pressure packed situations and we all have them? For sure. I think the first thing that helped me was just embracing it. I think there's a, there's a huge difference of kinds of nerves. You know, there's a nervous like, I'm really uncomfortable and I don't want to be here nervous. And then there's like a nervous like, wow, this is fun. This is exciting. This is new nervous. And then there's a nervous of like, this is a big moment, but I'm ready to face this head on kind of nervous. And I think that's where I've gotten myself to, but that's just really been through experience and trial and error. You know, that's the best. Obviously it's a lot easier sending down, especially in golf is like, oh, you just see to get yourself in contention to win tournaments to learn, but you do, you know, there's going to be plenty of times. I mean, I've had plenty of tournaments and plenty of circumstances where I didn 't handle the moment well or I tried to try too much or I tried too hard and it ended up costing me. But because I was in that moment, I failed. I was able to go back and learn from it to where it helped me down the road. You know, you talked about your preparation for the majors earlier. You've gone on vacation, you've worked your butt off all week. You've done a lot of different things. Now, as you go into this major, do you have a process now that you really want to use for majors? I've a pretty good idea. I think it's very dependent on if I play the golf course or not. You know, it's a place like Augusta. I feel very comfortable around. I feel like I know it very well. And you know, that's a pretty good about tweaking one or two things every year, which to me is a great excuse to try to go back at some point before the turn. But then you get a place like Tulsa at Southern Hills last year that I never played. And I use the Monday of the Byron Nelson week to go play Southern Hills, check it out and then go back in town and then that helped me with my preparation next week. And the same thing with Brookline. I use the Monday of the Canadian Open last year to go to Boston, go play Brook line and then make my way to Canada. So the hard part about Oak Hill is being in Rochester. I can't quite predict the weather in advance like I could Tulsa in May. So the plan as a vow isn't to make any trips up there just because geographically there isn't a whole lot going on there golf tournament wise. But it's really just getting rested and getting in a good headspace that week off that I'm home. You know, having some really hard good practice days kind of middle of the week and then kind of tapered off with some rounds with some guys here in Jupiter. And then, you know, then from there, just go execute and go out and hit shots and play golf and not golf swing. You had your breakthrough season in 2017 and shortly after you became the number one golfer in the world in 2018. Describe what that's like. Does anything change for you when you're walking around with that number one title? I mean, that's got a that's heady stuff. Yeah. It was really cool. I'll never forget when I officially saw it. I mean, I knew when I finished my final round at the players championship 2018, I was number I was going to be number one in the world. But the rankings don't usually change until, you know, late Sunday night, maybe midnight, something like that. And I was flying home and I just I mean, I literally had the World Golf ranking app or on Safari and I just refresh, refresh, refresh and I saw it and it was just I'm like, there's nobody on planet earth that is ahead of me right now in the World Golf ranking. And it's one of the coolest things ever. I mean, it's cool just to talk about because that's although we all work to win golf tournaments, to win majors, to make team events, to have all these great accolades in golf, but you have to do so many things well to be the number one player in the world. And it is a huge, huge honor for anybody that gets it. And I know something that a lot of guys are very hungry for. So when I did get there, it was a it was a really cool experience. You know, I know being number one in the world was something that you always wanted to accomplish or at least I think it had to be. And now as you think about your personal goals, you know, all of us as leaders, we've got to set our annual goals. What's your goal setting process? Let's say for for 2023, how did you how did you go through that? I changed it up a little bit this year, just in the sense of, I mean, I still keep keep my goals to myself and between my team, just for the sake of I just don't think it's it would take a rocket scientist to figure out, you know, the majority of my goals , but it's just I don't necessarily like to feel like I'm being reminded of them all year. I did that kind of early in my career of being very specific with the media of like, you know, I want to I want to win a tournament. I want to play in the final, whatever groups of a major. I want to get to this and all of a sudden it comes July and you haven't won one yet and you're getting asked every, you know, interview you have like your goal of yours was to win a tournament. You're starting to feel pressure and it's like, well, I am and I don't need any more of you kind of thing. So that's something that that we've done. But this year, what I've done is more so tried to make them a lot more almost result oriented as opposed to in past. It's been very, you know, I want my greens and regulation to be this. I want my putting my strokes game putting to be this. My stroke scan approach to be this, whatever it is. And to me, those are all the things that I'm working on at home. Those are the things that are kind of like falling under the umbrella of what I 'm working on to be the end goal. So to me, I goes for the year should be these, whether they're things that are very achievable. You know, I try to have a couple that I feel like I can do. I don't want to say easily, but should. And then I kind of have some there at the middle and then I have some that are very difficult and very high ceiling. But I want to have something to go for. You know, you've got a team around you for sure. There's no question about it. Who are the key players on your team, Justin? And how do you define expectations for them and motivate them? Because you know, golf pros, you really, you have a big team. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how long you have to go over the team. But yeah, obviously bones is out there with me and my caddy and then have my dad, my swing coach, John Graham, my putting coach, have Colby, my trainer here at home , have Troy, my physio who I work with on the road. You know, it's you can go as in depth as you want. I mean, it's like I have my wife who's obviously my biggest teammate that's with me everywhere, but doesn't necessarily do anything on the golf course or anything like that. So I mean, you can go as deep as you is you want in that regard. But I also have bones, my dad, John, you know, physical side. I have them make goals too because I want them to feel like they're working for something. I don't want to just go through the motions. I always, you know, want to just get 1% better, want to take an opportunity, get a little bit better each and everywhere I can. But also we can all hold each other accountable. You know, if my, if, if John feels like my dad's not doing something that he should be or maybe that instead he was going to do, then it's on all of us to tell him because we all want the same thing in this team. And that's for me and us to succeed as much as possible because if everybody's doing what they should and I'm more most importantly doing what I feel like I should and can, then it's going to be a very successful, you know, teamwork and partnership amongst all of us. Do you bring them all together or do you do more one on ones? Uh, both. I mean, my dad bones and John and I spend a lot of time together in tournaments . I mean, Colby and Troy are working together quite a bit just because, you know, Troy's seeing my body every week in terms of how things are moving one way or the other and that he's able to relate that to Colby in terms of doing workouts and then maybe if I'm home with Colby working out, if he sees something one way or the other, he can tell Troy when I get on the road. So it's really just, it's just about getting the understanding amongst everybody that look, we're all in the same team here. We all think, you know, it's very clear that I think that all of them are the best at what they do. Otherwise, I would choose elsewhere or something else. And so I, you know, I take a lot of, a lot of pride in that and I also really appreciate all the help that they do. Tell me about the hiring process that you went through to bring bones on. I pretty much, I had called Stiny my, you know, the head of Excel and Lance going to my agent and just said, what did that, you know, Jimmy had decided to go a different way and I'm trying to figure out what to do. And I was like, well, you know, I want to call bones, but I know he's doing TV and Stiny has a good relationship with bones. And he's just like, let me kind of plant to see it a little bit. So he, he called and he pretty much said bones expecting your call. So I called bones and kind of told him what was going on and bones like, well, I just, just renegotiated my deal with NBC. So I need to make a phone call real quick, but let me get back to you. And I'm very, very fortunate that he made the decision he did. He worked so hard and takes what he does so seriously. You know, he would drop anything at any time to do anything for myself or anybody in my family or team, which is really cool. And I'm very, very lucky to have him on my back. You know, your dad has been your coach since childhood at Harmony Landing Country Club and the, you know, which I played a few rounds there. And tell me about a time when having your dad as your coach has been the best thing ever. And then when is there has ever been a time when it's been extremely challenging? For sure. It took us a couple of years, I think, to get used to the, we're not, we're not father or son out here on the range of a tour event, you know, we're, we're coach and student. And it definitely, at least in my opinion, I think you'd say the same. It took us a couple of years to get used to that. But I mean, he obviously, he knows me better than any coach would in terms of a personal level. And he just, he's really good. Although I'm stubborn and don't like to admit it sometimes. It's just, is kind of dumbing down this, the situation or making it smaller than it is. And it's like, Justin, you're not playing that bad, you're not playing as bad as you think you are. Like it's just, like, let's not forget your number, whatever in the world here. Like it's not, it's a fine line. So just keeping me sane, if you will, and obviously being able to share the, share the memories and moments I've had with them, whether it be, you know, the PJ championships or tour wins, I've been fortunate to have whatever it is. But I've gotten in his face a couple of times. I think that same, the same way it can be hard for, I mean, he's very old school coach, which is what I like in the sense of, he's not just going to say something to say it. He's not going to, you know, give me all of these technical kind of thoughts. But he knows that I work like that. So there's been times when I'm not hitting it good and he doesn't necessarily, he's kind of trying to figure out what to say. And I'm like, are you going to tell me anything? Or are you just going to let me keep hitting it this bad? Like clearly I'm hitting it God awful. I need something from you and I need something from you quickly. And I mean, I've done it. Yeah. I had a, probably my first like legitimate blow up at the Atlanta, the tour championship to handful of years ago. I got pretty pissed off and made sure that he knew that. But you know, that's, that's what comes with it. That's why we're not father, son out there. We're, we're student and coach. I guess you'd have to say you are the boss. There's no question about that. You know, that is true. That is true. That's one of the few times I can actually tell him what to do. You know, like a lot of business leaders, you, you do best practice visits. You know, I know you've reached out to people like Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky and Jack Nicholas to learn from them. Tell me about one of your more memorable conversations you've had with one of these leaders and what it taught you. I mean, they're all very, very similar in the sense of obviously they're the greatest at the sport that they played, but they have a hard time sometimes explaining what they did or what they're thinking. It's, it's just as simple as like, look, like this, the shots, the most important shot you're ever going to hit. You're not thinking about anything else. And as soon as it leaves your club face and, and comes arrest for going to the next one. It's kind of the same, the MJ is very processed and, and present oriented and I would say Tom, Tom Brady has been great to me and I've been very, very thankful for his relationship and friendship. Just, you know, I've reached out to him and times when I've, you know, been doing well and times when I feel like I'm really in a funk and he's always willing to talk and, you know, he kind of helped me break down that when things aren't going well, he's kind of waned it down to three things as a physical, mental or emotional. And if it's a physical, you don't have the confidence. And if you don't have the confidence, then probably some kind of mental. So it's like one thing can take care of the other, which can take care of the other. And something as little as that is something I fall back on sometimes and helps me. Have you really gone to these guys more for how they approach their games mentally or is that, that's really what you're trying to dig into? I am, yeah. And that's the hardest thing that they have. They have a hard time explaining that, you know, it's they when they're in there in the arena and they're in the moment, especially in football or basketball. It's very, you know, you're reacting to the situation versus golf. You had a long time between shots. You're sleeping on a lead. You're, you know, you're over the ball a long time. So it's, I would say that's a little bit different as opposed to just kind of reacting to whatever the play or the defense or whatever it is giving you. But it's just anything I can possibly get, you know, if I talk to him for 30 minutes, but I can get one or two things out of the conversation that can help me going forward and that's a success. What's the biggest mental challenge you have to deal with on a most regular basis? For me, it's staying present. I would say I think I almost have like a little bit of an ADD mind and I just kind of going all over the place. And when I'm playing my best, I only am thinking about what I'm doing at that time. And in that shot, I'm trying to hit and I accept things very well. I'm not hard on myself. I don't get down on myself versus when I'm what I'm kind of, I use to call it kind of like Candyland where I'm just all over the place. It's, you know, make a couple birdies and then start thinking about maybe some holes down the road or start looking at the guys on the leaderboard thinking about what they're doing or like, okay, well, tomorrow's it's, and then as soon as you start thinking about anything, that's not what's going on at that time. It never goes well. So you would think I'd stop doing it, but it's obviously easier said than done, but like anything, it's a work in progress. It's true that we all know what to do. It's just doing it. This is a hard thing. I know. I can, I can tell anybody with the best of them what to do, but I, there's plenty of times when I don't, when I don't practice what I preach. But because you're listening to this, I can tell you're the kind of person who wants to learn how to lead well. But there's a lot of companies out there who want to take that desire and charge you $500 or $1,000 or heck, even $20,000 to try and show you how to lead. That's just not right. If you want to be a better leader, I believe you deserve to have access to something that will truly help you and it shouldn't cost a fortune. So I want you to go to howleaderslead.com and start my leadership class. It's really and truly free. And after you take this class, you're going to feel more confident in your role and you'll be on your way to getting big things done with your team. Go check it out at howleaderslead.com. You've also spent a lot of time with Tiger, which is amazing. And when you think about Tiger Woods and what he's taught you, what part of the game has he helped you the most in? I would say imagination, shot making and just bringing out the inner artists. I think I'm a very creative and hands-y field player. And I think that's why I play well in some of those rounds. I get very windy and very difficult because you can't be over the ball thinking about it. I can't have this thing laid off at the top and I can't have it shut coming down. It's like, look, I have 140 yards and I somehow have to get the seven iron to hit the screen. And it's got to be hooking against this left-right wind. Otherwise, it's not going to hold the green. So it's almost like that artistic side of my brain switches on. And I'm just so engulfed in what's going on specifically. And I think that's something he's really helped a lot with. You know, I've talked to a few pros and they know you're obviously tight with Tiger and they think your short game is incredible. They think you've got these secrets that you picked up from Tiger. Have you got some secrets? And if you have secrets, would you share it with any of your buddies? Would you share it with Jordan Spieth? Ah, definitely not Jordan. I've seen him chip in enough. I would happily share them with you, David, as long as you've sworn the secrecy . But it's more not necessarily like, okay, do this. It's really just going out. It's the same thing as when I was a kid. You know, I just would go down to the Chipping Green at Harmony and I'd go down and chip for two or three hours. And eventually you're just going to learn some shots just from screwing around. And I think that's really what he's done more than anything is you just, this feel resonates to me. And when I feel this, it makes the ball do that. And it might not work for you or I, but it works for him. And that's, I've learned a thing or two from him, but I also know that he has held many, many things back for me. I am much more of that. I'd have to imagine building trust and becoming a part of that inner circle with Tiger has been extremely difficult. What was it that you did as a leader to build trust so that he does take you underneath his wing? I mean, I think first and foremost, I was just myself. I wasn't going to be anybody else. I mean, I'm pretty sarcastic. I like to joke around and I sure wasn't going to act any different around him. There's definitely times where I almost have to kind of pinch myself when I'm in the moments, if that makes sense. Because of what's going on or having conversations with him or whatever it may be. But it's really, I think he understands and sees how much it means to me. And I think he sees some similarities in how we go about some things between him and I when he was my age, obviously, in terms of accomplishments and golf. He has me and everybody else beat by a mile, but a couple of miles of that. But he just can see that I think want it and I'm willing to do as much as I possibly can to get it. And I think he respects that anybody who's willing to work hard and is kind of just hungry and has a little bit of fire in them. But more anything, I just want to be a friend. When you're in your position as a leader in your field and you're a celebrity, obviously, how do you make sure you get the truth from everybody? I mean, you know, when you're a leader, people will blow a lot of smoke. How do you make sure you have truth tellers around you? You have to make some tough decisions and I'm sure you've been in the same scenarios and situations. But it's honestly another great piece of advice I got from Tom Brady. It's just like, man, it's tough because the more success you have, the more people are going to want to be a part of you and your life and people are going to come out of the woodworks from high school, middle school, whatever it is. And it's one of those things to where it's like if a certain situation or a certain person doesn't bring out a better side of you or something positive out of you, then there's really life is too short to even associate yourself with that situation or person. And some will say it's harsh. Some will say that that's not necessarily the right thing to do, but it's true. I'm so limited on my time and there's no need for me to waste any opportunities I have to potentially get better or bring out a better side of myself. So it's really just about associating yourself with the appropriate people and appropriate situations. I mean, we're all going to make mistakes in that regard of maybe trusting someone that you shouldn't ever telling someone something you shouldn't have. But especially in today's day and age of social media and everything going on. It's not nothing's off the record, that's for sure. And you really just have to get a very close knit inner circle like I feel like I have and it kind of stick with it. You seem to thrive in team environments. I know golf is pretty much an individual game, but you took the University of Alabama to his first national championship. And then I don't know if there's anybody that goes more crazy in the Ryder Cup than you. How do you view yourself in your role on the Ryder Cup team? I view it the same as I hope to always view it and it's just I'm there for whatever I'm needed for. I don't want to be going into it telling everybody I'm the team captain. I'm the team leader. I don't care what I am. I just want us to succeed and have our team do as well as possible. And if that week the captain comes to me and says, Hey Justin, we need you to play two matches, but we really need you to put your arm around this rookie and play with him in these two matches. And it's like, okay, that's great. If it's, Hey, we need you to go out all five matches and we're going to put you out with Jordan first out. I'd say, okay, sounds great. And it's just whatever I need to do because that week's a lot bigger than me. It's not about me. It's about playing for your country. It's about playing for your 11 other teammates. It's about playing for your three, four captains. It's about playing for your country. So I think that's kind of the group and vibe that we have going right now is we have a lot of guys that are willing to do whatever they need to do. That's best for the team. And I don't care about those winning points and winning the team of that. So it's a pretty cool group to be a part of. What's your favorite story from one of the big moments you've had at the Ryder Cup? I would say the Ryder Cup beating Poulter twice in one day is pretty great. I mean, Poulter has been an American killer, a US killer for a long time. It was in the Ryder Cup in France, which we got absolutely shellacked. But Jordan and I, we beat Poulter and Ramen in the morning and then Poulter and Rory in the afternoon. And it was actually my old cat named Jimmy Johnson used to always say, "What's better than beating Poulter in the Ryder Cup? Beat him twice in one day." So that was, you know, I know he takes the Ryder Cup very seriously. And that was, I mean, Jordan and I talk about that a lot. That was a huge accomplishment for us. But the, the President's Cup, I, when I played with Tiger in Australia, we were going to number 16. I just made about an eight, 10 footer for Birdie and we were, I think, all square at that time. And 16's a brutal, the routing they have are 16 holes, a brutal driving hole. It's dog leg like it's a narrow dog leg left and there's a tree right off the left side of the tee. The wind's in off the left. I'm a fader of the ball off the tee. And I mean, I hate the tee shot. I just, visually it's just not a good looking tee shot to me. And I'm kind of walking up there, I'm trying to figure out, you know, what am I going to hit off this tee? Like it's a long hole to where I can't necessarily hit three wood or two iron. I mean, Tiger's going to have 220 yards in. But it was the only, I mean, we, we played our own game, but I, I just, he was on the tee box and I was like, "Hey, what do you, what do you like off this tee?" And he just looked at me. He goes, "I don't care. Just put it in the fairway." That was the only thing you said to me. I was like, "Okay, thanks partner. Sounds good." And I did. I hit the fairway. We won the match on 18, so it was all good. You know, the closest thing that could come to the Ryder Cup, at least energy wise during the regular season is the 16th hole at the Phoenix Open. Do you like that scene and do you wish there was more of that on tour? Yeah, it's good once a year, in my opinion. I think some tournaments are trying to emulate it, but I don't think they understand the amount of people that are on that hole. It's just wild. So there's enough to where the noise coming from people just kind of, I mean, just like a football or basketball game or baseball game, it just, it all kind of goes together. But you know, when you have a thousand people on a whole and, and 50 people yell, it's, it's pretty apparent and can be distracting. But when there's 20,000 people on a whole and a thousand of them are saying something, it's just kind of all noise. So it's a wild atmosphere. It's a lot of fun. It's the hardest part about it is just trying to hit some little soft finesse shot. All you want to do is just hit a driver's heart as you can because the amount of adrenaline you have. But it's a, it's a very cool experience. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Justin Thomas in a moment. Justin does a fantastic job of seeking out other great athletes to learn from. And one of the very greatest is the legendary Jack Nicholas. You know, I got the honor of sitting down with Jack here on this podcast and I love what he had to say about the importance of learning both from your successes and your failures. I think you have to learn why you lose. You have to learn why you win. You have to learn how to do both. And I think business is exactly the same thing. You know, everybody makes mistakes as they're growing up trying to learn to grow a business. And you should learn from those mistakes. But you also, when you do something well, you learn from that too. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with the great Jack Nicholas, episode 21 here on How Leaders Lead. You know, I know success for you, Justin isn't just on the golf course. And a few years back, you launched the Justin Thomas Foundation. Tell us about it. I'm very, very fortunate to be in the position I am and have the opportunity to give back. And yeah, we launched the Justin Thomas Foundation five, six years ago to benefit junior golf for children in need and military families. And, you know, we've done a lot of work with the Boys and Girls Club with the First Sea Alul goin. It's just having the opportunity to give back to kids, whether it be, you know, something like an AJGA grant that I'm, you know, that I'm doing or grant that I would, that I received through the Kentucky Junior Golf Association or whatever it might be. And seeing these, you know, the kids and, you know, some bad towns in Louisville that, you know, they don't have the opportunity to get gifts for Christmas or Thanksgiving or things like that. And being able to first hand go in and see them and see the smiles on their faces and see the amount of lives and that you can impact. And, you know, we're very fortunate to sort of so much to support the truth. So being able to see category here or having seems like every week in a program , you know, we have a veteran that will come caddy force in a hole and just developing those kind of relationships. And, you know, when you hear that they served, you know, an Iraq for 10 or 12 years, it makes, you know, that bogey that you make in the middle of your second round really not seem that big of a deal. So we had a great event planned during the COVID year. So unfortunately had to put that on hold, but we're hoping to have another event here in the next, you know, year or so to where we can raise some more money and help really a lot of people. I look forward to being a part of it. And thank you for everything you do for our troops and for everything you do for Louisville. You know, you, you are seeing as a fine upstanding citizen and everybody really appreciates what you do. I understand you had a scare with melanoma a few years back. I mean, how has that, how has that impacted you, Justin? Yeah, it's, it's a pretty opening experience. It was, it was the fall of 2019. So what I was 26 years old, went in for dermatologist checkup and I had a couple of moles taken off in high school. One that was cancerous, but it was early enough to where it was okay. And it's never a good, good sign when you get a text from your doctor at, you know, 939 saying, call me and gave him a call and told me he's like, you have some melanoma. You know, you're going to have to go back in. They're going to have to, you know, do surgery. It's not a very intense surgery at all. I mean, you're awake for it, but you have to take surgery to take it out of your leg. It's in my, my left cab and they're going to have to, you know, send it in to get looked at to make sure it's nothing more severe and hasn't spread being very ignorant to that didn't really understand the severity of it. And I was very, very fortunate that I hadn't spread, but he told me I was probably three or four months away from being a patient in the hospital. And that 26 years old, that's a pretty, pretty eye opening and bizarre experience. And I'm very, very fortunate. Everything's been good since, you know, I had to do four checkups the following year, three of the next, two of the next. And, you know, it's, it's, I tried to tell all my friends whether it be on tour or just at home to, you know, go get checked, go to your dermatologist. And, you know, it's not like it's a, it's a very intense or hard thing to do, but it may have been such a difference. And that's why we were able to launch the sunscreen Wear SPF, you know, in the last last year, so to hopefully spread the awareness and bring a little bit of attention to that because it is a very, very important thing that I think is very overlooked by many. Yeah. Well, thanks for building awareness of that because it's something that affects all of us and especially if we are blessed enough to be out there in the sun, you know , you know, Justin, it's been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more of my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? Let's do it. That's one word others would use to describe you. Sarcastic. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Hungry. What's your biggest pet peeve? Oh, my biggest pet peeve. Oh, man, I can't stand when people chew loud. Like that's a, I can't, I can't stand that. That's a Kentucky stereotype. Yeah. Imagine it's the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole, a par four and you need a birdie to win, but someone has to hit your shots for you. Who's hitting the drive? Roy McRoy. Who's hitting the approach shot? Tiger. Who's making the putt? Jordan. What's been the most nerve-wracking shot of your career? Probably the most nervous I've ever been was my first tee shot at the Ryder Cup in 2018 in France. I still to this day say I hit five-wood off the tee, but when I hit a five-wood off the tee, I don't use an actual tee. I just kind of, you know, hit my club in the ground and put it on the top of the grass. But I think if I had to try to put it on the tee, I don't think I would have been able to. My hands are shaking so bad. Now I know you carded the 59 during a tournament. What's your lowest score in a non-tournament round? 60 or 61, I think. I know I've shot 61 a couple times, but I'll go 61. What's your favorite city to travel to on the PGA Tour? I love San Diego. I think San Diego is beautiful. Last time you were at a top golf, and did you bring your own clubs? Last time I was at a top golf, it was probably for Jordan's, Jordan's beef, him and his wife's foundation event a couple years ago, and I definitely did not bring my own clubs. Just a few more questions. We're out of the lightning round now. You've mentioned Jordan's beef quite a few times, and you guys have a lot of fun with each other. What's the best prank you ever pulled on him? I haven't done it. The hard part about Jordan is you can't do anything too extreme because he'll go way over the top coming back to you. So I've had to be very cautious. He had my card toad one year at Phoenix. That was impressive. Leaders, we're in the moment all the time. When you're in the moment, you've got national television on you. You've got the sounds being picked up. You're an emotional guy. How do you control your emotions and stay on top of that so that people don't hear what you might be thinking? Or is that something that you're more aware of now? A little bit, but I think most importantly is I can't change who I am. I can definitely try to change my vocabulary because of things that don't need to be on national television. I don't need to go out there and act like somebody else because it looks like they're playing better than me. But the reason why I am where I am is because of the characteristics and personality traits that I have. If that makes sense. You know, the demeanor that Patrick Cantley has in the golf course, a very even keel, very level, is something that would resonate for me. No, yeah, I don't want to be spiking up and down all the time. But if I can live in this area a little bit better as opposed to just flat lining, I'm going to play better golf. You use your emotion to fire you up and get done what needs to get done. What do you think golf has to do to improve its popularity? I think it's on a great trend. It's more accessible to kids. I think we have so much of the middle, older age generation. I truly think that more high schoolers, college kids, people in their 20s are getting in the golf. I think golf is at the best place it's ever been. I truly think if the product is just going to continue to get better on tour and I think it'll have more viewing opportunities for people to get involved in it. I think just keeping it fun and light and just an opportunity for people to be able to hang out with one another is going to continue to have it grow. You know, 2024, the PGA site is Valhalla, it'll be in your hometown. How do you feel about that? Do you already feel a little extra pressure there? Do you feel like, "Hey, I'm going in my own hometown and look out guys?" A little bit of both. I do think there's a pretty good possibility I changed my number about a week or two before the PGA just to go ahead and make that week a little easier. It's growing up in Louisville. You know, David, it's such an unbelievable sports town and it's so cool. Louisville means so much to me. It really does and the amount of support that I have gotten and continue to get from not only Louisville but just Kentucky in general. It just it does. It means a lot. I mean, I live in Florida but I'm always going to be from Louisville, Kentucky and I'm very, very, very proud of that. So having the opportunity to play a major championship in my hometown is one of the coolest things I could ever imagine. So I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited and anxious but yeah, I probably going to need to talk myself off the ledge a little bit that week because it'll be very high motion. Well, we can't wait to have you. It'll be awesome to have you there and I can't wait to see it tee it up. You know, before 30, you've already got the 15 victories, two major championships, FedEx Cup, the players, you know, what's your unfinished business? I mean, just one of more tournaments. I want to win more majors and one of win-win more tournaments. You know, you only have one opportunity in your career to make the absolute most out of it and that's what I want to do. And you know, I've had a couple of runs of getting on some good streaks of win- win tournaments and it's been in my eyes quite a while since I've done that. So I'm very, very eager and hungry to get back to that but also understand that I need to be patient and let it happen. You know, you're around all kinds of leaders. You've talked about some of the great legends that you've spent time with. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to become a better leader? And I promise I'm not saying this because I'm talking to you but a book that I really got a lot out of was your book, a great one and it just was, I think this world is so, so used to only saying something to somebody if it's negative or if it's like, hey, you need to do this better. Hey, you're not doing this well versus tell someone when they're doing something right. I just really try to tell bones like, hey, you did a really, really good job today of keeping me at the moment. I don't need to tell him if he gives me a bad yardage. If I'm cussing him out and fly the green when I want to hit another club, he's probably going to get the idea already. But I don't think there's enough positive reinforcement in our world and just in general and that's something I promise I'm not just blown smoke to you but I really, really learned a lot from that and I try to use that a lot with my team of just positive reinforcement and letting people know when they're doing well because if they look up to you, then they need to be respectful of them. Well thank you very much for that, Justin. I appreciate it and thank you for what you're doing on tour, what you're doing in the community, the leadership that you're projecting and your love for our country. I love how you make it happen at the Ryder Cup, President's Cup and just what you're doing with veterans, you know, you're a true American on that front and I appreciate you being on this show and I want you to know that this is probably the first big interview you've ever done where somebody didn't ask you about live. Yeah. It isn't about what I guess about a year. So I'll leave that to golf channel. All right. Thanks a lot buddy. I appreciate it. Thanks David. Yeah, man. Well, there's no doubt in my mind Justin Thomas is one of Louisville's finest, both on and off the golf course and as you can hear in this conversation, Justin is really intentional about the mentality he has on the course. Now he may not always get it right. I mean, nobody does, but he understands the power of managing his mindset. For him, that means staying present when he plays and not letting his mind go into what he calls Candyland mode where he gets way ahead of himself and his mind starts to wander. It's true in golf and is true in leadership. Your success starts with your mindset. How you mentally process and respond to what's going on around you matters so much if you want to get big things done. You've got to be ready to handle whatever responsibilities and challenges come your way and you can't do that well if you aren't in a good frame of mind. This week ask yourself, how can you manage your own mentality better? What thoughts come into your head that aren't actually serving you well? Just by being aware of those tendencies, it'll be easier for you to keep your mentality where it needs to be to lead your team well. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders manage their mindset. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Nat Turner, he's the CEO of collectors. If you're going to start a company, just get started. The idea you start with will very likely not be the idea you end with. So just getting started is 99% of it. The same goes with exercise and anything. Just make the initial effort, get out there and start. And then pivot, that's the thing, you have strong opinions loosely held. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]