David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well as my fellow golf fans know, the PGA Championship tees off today at Oak Hills east in Rochester. Now I absolutely love this tournament. And if you were watching it last year, then you got to see my guest today, Justin Thomas, make an absolute epic comeback. He came from seven strokes back to win and a playoff and notches, second win and a major. He's an extraordinary player who is so much fun to watch. And you know, he also knows a thing or two about leadership. When you listen to Justin, it's clear, he knows how to manage his own mindset. That's true for great golfers and is just as true for great leaders. You've got to understand how much your mentality affects your performance and your team. If you're not intentional about what's going on inside your own head, it can really cost you so listen up. Whether you're a golf fan or not. Justin has so many great insights that will help you manage your own mindset better. Plus, I gotta tell you, he's got some great stories you're gonna want to hear about Tiger Woods and Tom Brady too. So this is going to be a lot of fun. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Justin Thomas.

Nello, JT, we're going to talk about your incredible career that you've had so far. Your 15 victories, your two majors getting to number one in the world. But first, I got to ask you this one. Take us back to the 18 T at at St. Andrews during the first round of the Open Championship. What the heck happened?

Justin Thomas 2:00 

Wow, I'm not gonna lie. It was gonna be an opening. Yeah, it was right after I made my first bogey that day, I think it was at 17. I made double. I mean, 18. Being downwind is about as I don't want to say easy of a birdie as you can get out there. But it's about as easy of a burden as you can get out there. I mean, it was to the point where I felt like I could hit five on the green, I just tried to burn a five wood. And I burned it. All right, I skipped it over the burn. That's right in front of the tea, I kind of feel topped it. And yeah, I was trying to maybe hit it up the left side to have an angle to chip up the green. But I wasn't planning on hitting it the left side and having 120 yards. And so I'm very lucky, it didn't go in the burn. I'm lucky didn't go to bounce. And I'm lucky that that that video hasn't gone viral?

David Novak 2:55 

Well, I gotta tell you, the reason why I asked you this is that, you know, great leaders, you have to bounce back, you know, walk me through your thought process hitting that next shot, you know, you got to hit the next shot, you got that 125 wedge, and also what was in your head, standing on the 18th tee box the very next day.

Justin Thomas 3:15 

Or the next day was a driver. And I felt a little bit better about being on a tee and a little bit bigger face. And I mean, I knew I was playing with Shane Lowry and Victor and I know Shane a little better than Victor. And as soon as I hit it, I mean instantly when it was going straight and gotten the air of Shane just gives me an immediate, most improved award. Come and I deserve every bit of that. But yeah, I mean, the second shot, you really just have to somehow try to get over that. I mean, I've never taken a walk of shame and a Thursday round before but I felt like that walk to my ball was definitely the walk of shame. I'd love to see a dispersion of everybody's tee shots that day. And it'd be like everybody's would be here at mine would be the outlier somewhere back in there. So, but it just is like anything, you know, I couldn't let it get to me and I still had a chance. It wasn't a very good chance. But I still had a chance to make a three and you know, I couldn't compound the mistake in end up making five. The shot was bad enough. I don't need that make it worse.

David Novak 4:16 

How have you found the balance between learning from your failures and and trying to stay focused on the positive? How do you do that?

Justin Thomas 4:25 

It's tough. I mean, it's something I think, at least me personally, I just go in waves. You know, there's times where it seems easy to when you get done maybe from a bad week. It's It's okay. Well, you know, this week, I do a lot of good things, but maybe we just got a little bit ahead of myself there and the end of that Friday round and I I was too aggressive and started the back nine on Saturday. And you know, I took a couple of chances that I shouldn't have taken and if I don't do any of those things, I have a chance to win versus there's some weeks, you might do the exact same thing and you get done and all you can think about was how dumb those mistakes you made. They were and why did you do them and I was just looking at the negative side of it. But the sooner that I realized that I have those opportunities to learn from the mistakes that I made, definitely the sooner off I started playing better golf and, and having a lot better things happened for me. So it's really just trying to, I mean, it's the same as everything. You know, it doesn't matter whether you're David Novak, Justin Thomas, or Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy, whatever it is, it's like, if you, you just wake up some days and you're just not in it, you know, you're just whether you don't get, you know, good sleep, or swing doesn't feel good. Or you maybe don't like the golf course, as much as just you're irritable, whatever it is, but those are the days I think that separates the good and the great players is managing those days and weeks best again,

David Novak 5:48 

was it harder for you to win your first major championship, your first PGA or your second?

Justin Thomas 5:54 

My second, it was definitely harder to win my second my first I think, I don't know why it was, I think I put a lot of pressure on myself to win the first one, you know, Jordan had already won three at a younger age. And, you know, I had some, some of my other peers, you know, Brooks was starting to fire some majors off and it just was, like, you know, I didn't want to get left behind. And I felt like I was as good as those guys. But then it's like you in the first one, and then you expect, okay, now the floodgates are open and, and then you know, I'm gonna start winning. But at the end of the day, you only have four chances every year. And I think that's the hardest part about it is that it's, it's, it's taken me a little bit honestly, to kind of figure out what works for me to be as prepared and ready as possible for the majors. You know, I played before a couple of them last year, taking the weeks off. And sometimes in pass, taking weeks off, I haven't necessarily spent that week properly, I've almost over practice and burn myself up before going into it. And I've taken vacations before. So there's, there's a lot of different ways to do it. At the end of the day, it's just what works best for you. And for me being in a good mindset and being you know, feeling fresh mentally, physically, you know, going there feeling like I'm not necessarily trying to maintain a really good game. But the longer and more years that went by the more I kind of started thinking a lot of people have won one major and anybody can win one major but you got to you need to win multiple to kind of be in my opinion known as you know, a multiple major winner and a great player and not that great players don't want to one major but you know what I mean? You got to you got to anybody can win one.

David Novak 7:33 

Well, not anybody but you certainly did one and you did too and there'll be many more in your near future I'm sure. Now whether in golf we're in business leaders need to learn how to play when they're behind. And it southern Hills last year, you were seven shots back going into the final round. Compare and contrast your I'm behind mindset versus your I'm in the lead mindset.

Justin Thomas 7:57 

I think they're both very situational only in the sense of how many are not maybe how many behind Are you but how many people are ahead of you, I think there's a huge difference of you know, going into a Sunday of a major I'd probably rather be four back but only have three or four people in front of me versus two back and have eight people in front of me, you know that that's a big big difference. And that's what I felt like gave me a chance to the PGA on Sunday at Southern hills. It was like usually when you're seven back you know you're you're in 15th place maybe 20 of 25th and I was in seventh I mean I had six people had to meet none of them had one on tour none of them would want to major I don't think so it was like I know that they're going to be nervous I'm going to be nervous but they're really going to be nervous too. So I just need to go out and I'm gonna have to beat them at the end of the day but I'm gonna have to rely on a little bit of help as well. And you know that's what I've tried to do I try to put my head down not get wrapped up in leaderboards not worry about how far back I was but just make as many birdies as I could when I had opportunities and see where it put me at the end unfortunately it was enough.

David Novak 9:08 

How about when you're ahead? I mean, is that harder for you?

Justin Thomas 9:12 

I like it I think it's situational on the golf course you know I've played with leads at places like a call out in Malaysia you know where 25 High 20 under winds and it's not like I played with the lead at Akron before and you know, I just fairway green to putt fairway green to putt fairway green to pot and it's just it's kind of the Tiger method of just don't make a bogey and you know no three putts no no dumb bogeys and they're really gonna have to catch you because I'm gonna be good enough to make couple birdies but when you're playing those easier courses, it's really for me of some leaves my to I need to try to leave by three if I'm leaving my three needs before and it just I don't want to necessarily look backward of you know, okay, how close are they getting to me, but it's a bit Just try to improve and get a little, you know, get one shot more, get one shot more and really just honestly try to step on their throat kind of thing, because they're all gunning for you, and you need to have the same mentality.

David Novak 10:11 

You mentioned nerves a little earlier. And I've heard you say, if you're not nervous, it doesn't mean anything to you. How have you learned to manage your emotions in those moments that other leaders can apply in their pressure packed situations? And we all have them?

Justin Thomas 10:26 

For sure. I think the first thing that helped me was just embracing it. I think there's a there's a huge difference of kinds of nerves. You know, there's a nervous like, I'm really uncomfortable, and I don't want to be here nervous. And then there's like a nervous like, wow, this is fun. This is exciting. This is new, nervous. And then there's a nervous of like, this is a big moment. But I'm, I'm ready to face this head on kind of nervous. And I think that's where I've gotten myself to. But that's just really been through experience and trial and error. You know, that's the best. Obviously, it's a lot easier said than done, especially in golf is like, Oh, you just need to get yourself in contention to win tournaments to learn. But you do you know, there's gonna be plenty of times. I mean, I've had plenty of tournaments and plenty of circumstances where I didn't handle the moment well, or I tried to try too much, or I tried too hard and ended ended up costing me but because I was in that moment, I failed, I was able to go back and learn from it to where it helped me down the road. You know,

David Novak 11:24 

you talked about your preparation for the majors earlier, you've gone on vacation, you've worked your butt off all week, you've you've done a lot of different things. Now as you go into this Bajur, do you have a process now that you really want to use for majors,

Justin Thomas 11:39 

I have a pretty good idea. I think it's very dependent on if I play the golf course or not, you know, it's a place like Augusta I feel very comfortable around, I feel like I know it very well, then, you know, Dustin is pretty good about tweaking one or two things every year, which to me is a great excuse to to try to go back at some point before the tournament. But then you get a place like Tulsa at Southern Hills last year that I've never played. And I use the Monday of the Byron Nelson week to go play southern hills, check it out, and then go back in town. And then that helped me with my preparation next week. And same thing with Brookline. I used the Monday of the Canadian Open last year to go to Boston, go play Brookline and then make my way to Canada. So the hard part about Oak Hill as being in Rochester, I can't quite predict the weather in advance in advance like I could Tulsa in May. So the plan as of now is to make any trips up there just because geographically there isn't a whole lot going on there. Golf Tournament wise, but it's really just getting getting rested and getting in a good headspace that week off that I'm home, you know, having some really hard good practice days, kind of middle of the week, and then kind of tapered off with some rounds with some guys here in Jupiter. And then, you know, then from there, just go execute and go out and hit shots and play golf and golf swing.

David Novak 13:04 

You had your breakthrough season in 2017. And shortly after you became the number one golfer in the world in 2018. Describe what that's like, does anything change for you when you're walking around with that number one title? I mean, that's gotta that's heady stuff.

Justin Thomas 13:21 

Yeah, it was it was really cool. I'll never forget when I officially saw it. I mean, I knew when I finished my final round of the Players Championship 2018 I was number I was going to be number one in the world. But the rankings don't usually changed until you know, late Sunday night, maybe midnight, something like that. And I was fine home. And I just sent me an I literally had the World Golf ranking app or on safari and I just refresh, refresh, refresh. And I saw it and it was just, I'm like there's nobody on planet earth that is ahead of me right now in the World Golf ranking. And it's one of the coolest things ever. I mean, it's cool just to talk about because that's although we all work to win golf tournaments, to win majors to make team events to have all these great accolades in golf, but you have to do so many things well to be the number one player in the world and it is a huge, huge honor for anybody that gets it and I know something that a lot of guys are very hungry for so when I did get there it was it was a really cool experience.

David Novak 14:27 

You know, I know being number one in the world was something that you always wanted to accomplish or at least I think it had to be and now as you think about your your personal goals, you know, all of us as leaders, we've got to set our annual goals. What's your goal setting process? Let's say for for 2023 How did you how did you go through that?

Justin Thomas 14:45 

Um, I changed it up a little bit this year, just in the sense of I mean, I still keep keep my goals to myself in between my team just for the sake of I just don't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out you know, The majority of my goals but it's just, I don't necessarily like to feel like I'm being reminded of them all year I did that kind of early in my career of being very specific with the media of like, you know, I want to, I want to win the tournament, I want to play in the final whatever groups of a major, I want to get to this. And all of a sudden that comes July and you haven't won one yet, you're getting asked every you know, interview you have, like, your goal of yours was to win a tournament and you're starting to feel pressure. And it's like, well, I am and I don't need any more from you kind of things. That's something that that we've done, but this year, what I've done is more so tried to make them a lot more almost result oriented, as opposed to in past it's been very, you know, I want my greens and regulation to be this I want my putting my strokes gained putting to be this, my strokes gained approach to be this, whatever it is. And to me, those are all the things that I'm working on at home, those are the things that are kind of like falling under the umbrella of what I'm working on to be the end goal. So to me, I goals for the year should be these, whether they're things that are very achievable, you know, I try to have a couple that I feel like I can do. I don't want to say easily but should and then I kind of have some their middle and then I have some that are very difficult and very high ceiling. But I want to have something to go for. You know,

David Novak 16:23 

you've got a team around you for sure. There's no question about it. Who are the key players on your team? Justin? How do you define expectations for them and motivate them? Because you know, golf pros? You really you have a you have a big team? Yeah, yeah, I

Justin Thomas 16:38 

don't know how long you have to go over the team. But yeah, obviously bones out there with me on my caddy and then have my my dad my Swing Coach John Graham, I put in coach have called me my trainer here at home, have Troy my physio who I've worked with on the road, you know, it's, you can go as in depth as you want. I mean, it's like I have my wife who's obviously my, my biggest teammate that's with me everywhere, but doesn't necessarily do anything on the golf course or anything like that. So I mean, you can go as deep as deep as you want in that regard. But I also have bones, my dad, John, physique, you know, physical side, I have them make goals too, because I want them to feel like they're working for something, I don't want to just go through the motions I was, you know, one, just get 1% Better want to take an opportunity to get a little bit better each and every one I can. But also we can all hold each other accountable. You know, if my if, if John feels like my dad's not doing something that he should be, or maybe that said he was going to do then it's on all of us to tell them because we all want the same thing and this team and that's for me and us to succeed as much as possible. Because if everybody's doing what they should, and I'm more most importantly, doing what I feel like I should and can, then it's going to be very successful, you know, teamwork and partnership amongst all of us.

David Novak 18:00 

Do you bring them all together? Or do you do more one on ones

Justin Thomas 18:03 

of both. I mean, my dad bones and John and I spend a lot of time together in tournaments. I mean, Kobe and Troy are working together quite a bit just because, you know, tours, seeing my body every week in terms of how things are moving one way or the other. And then he's able to relate that to Kobe in terms of doing workouts and then maybe if I'm home with Kobe working out if he sees something one way or the other, he can tell tre when I get on the road. So it's really just, it's just about getting the understanding amongst everybody that look, we're all on the same team here. We all think, you know, it's very clear that I think that all of them are the best at what they do. Otherwise I would choose elsewhere or something else. And so I you know, I take a lot of a lot of pride in that and I also really appreciate all the help that they do.

David Novak 18:52 

Tell me about the hiring process that you went through to bring bones on.

Justin Thomas 18:56 

I pretty much I called signing my you know, the head of Excel and Lance young my agent and just said, What did you know Jimmy had started to go a different way and I'm trying to figure out what to do and I was like, Well, you know, I want to call bones but I know he's doing TV and and Stanley has a good relationship with bones and he's just like, let me kind of plant the seed a little bit so he he called and he pretty much said bones expecting your call. So I called bones and kind of told him what was going on. And I was like well, I just just read negotiated my deal with NBC so I need to make a phone call real quick but let me get back to you and I'm very very fortunate that he made the decision he did he he worked so hard and takes what he does so seriously, you know he would drop anything at any time to do anything for myself or or anybody in my family or team which is really cool and I'm very very lucky to have him on my back.

David Novak 19:54 

You know your dad has been your coach since childhood. At harmony landing Country Club and You know, which I played a few rounds there and tell me about a time when having your dad as your coach has been the best thing ever. And then when is there ever been a time when it's been extremely challenging? For sure it took

Justin Thomas 20:14 

us a couple of years, I think to get used to the we're not, we're not father son out here on the range of a tour event. You know, we're, we're coach and student. And it definitely, at least in my opinion, I think you'd say the same. It took us a couple of years to get used to that. But I mean, he obviously he knows me better than any coach would in terms of a personal level. And he just, he's really good. Although I'm stubborn and don't like to admit it, sometimes it's just is kind of dumbing down this the situation or making it smarter than it is. And it's like Justin, you're not playing that bad. You're not playing as bad as you think you are. Like, it's just like, let's not forget your number, whatever in the world here. Like it's not, it's a fine line. So just keeping me sane, if you will. And obviously, being able to share the share the memories and moments I've had with them, whether it be you know, the PGA championships or tour wins, I've been fortunate to have whatever it is, but I've gotten in his face a couple times, I think that same the same way. It can be hard for I mean, he's very old school coach, which is what I like in the sense of, He's not just going to say something to say he's not going to, you know, give me all these technical kind of thoughts. Anybody knows that? I work like that. So there's been times when I'm not hitting it good. And he doesn't necessarily he's kind of trying to figure out what to say. And I'm like, Are you going to tell me anything? Are you just gonna let me keep hitting it this bad? Like, clearly I'm hitting it God awful. I need something from you. And I need something from you quickly. And I mean, I've done it. Yeah, I've I had probably my first like legitimate blow up but the in Atlanta the Tour Championship a handful years ago, I I got pretty pissed off and, and made sure that he knew that but you know, that's that's what comes with it. That's why we're not father son out there. We're worse. Student and coach,

David Novak 22:12 

I guess you'd have to say you are the boss. There's no question about that, you know,

Justin Thomas 22:16 

that is true. That's one of the few times I can actually tell him what to do.

David Novak 22:21 

You know, like a lot of business leaders, you do best practice visits, you know, I know you've reached out to people like Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky and Jack Nicklaus to learn from them. Tell me about one of your more memorable conversations you've had with one of these leaders and what it taught you.

Justin Thomas 22:39 

I mean, they're all very, very similar in the sense of obviously the greatest the sport that they played, but they have a hard time sometimes explaining what they did, or what they're thinking. It's it's just as simple as like, look like this, the shots the most important shot you're ever gonna hit. You're not thinking about anything else. And as soon as it leaves your clubface and comes arrest her go on to the next one. And it's kind of the same thing. MJ is very process and, and present or oriented. And I would say, Tom, Tom Brady has been great to me. And I've been very, very thankful for his relationship and friendship, just, you know, I've reached out to him and times when I've, you know, been doing well. And times when I feel like I'm really in a funk. And he's always willing to talk. And, you know, he kind of helped me break down that when things aren't going well, he's kind of wind it down to three things Is it physical, mental, or emotional. And if it's a physical, you don't have the confidence and if you don't have the confidence, then probably some kind of mental so it's like one thing can take care of the other which can take care of the other and something as little as that is something I fall back on sometimes and helps me.

David Novak 23:52 

Have you really gotten to these guys more for how they approach their games mentally? Or is that that's really what you're trying to dig into.

Justin Thomas 24:00 

I am Yeah, and that's the hardest thing that they have. They have a hard time explaining that, you know, it's they, when they're in they're in the in the arena and they're in the moment, especially in football or basketball. It's very you know, you're reacting to the situation versus golf, you have a long time between shots, you're sleeping on a leave you're you know you're over the ball a long time. So it's, I would say that's a little bit different as opposed to just kind of reacting to whatever the play or the defense or whatever it is is giving you but it's just anything I can possibly get, you know if I've talked to him for 30 minutes, but I can get one or two things out of the conversation that can help me going forward and that's a that's a success.

David Novak 24:43 

What's the biggest mental challenge you have to deal with on the most regular basis?

Justin Thomas 24:48 

For me, it's staying present I would say I think I I almost have like a little bit of an add mind that I just kind of going all over the place and you When I'm playing my best, I only am thinking about what I'm doing at that time. And in that shot I'm trying to hit and I accept things very well. I'm not hard on myself, I don't get down on myself versus when I'm, when I'm kind of a, you could call it kind of like Candyland. Or I'm just all over the place. It's, you know, make a couple of birdies and then start thinking about maybe some holes down the road, or start looking at the guys and leaderboard and thinking about what they're doing or like, Okay, well, tomorrow is it. And then as soon as you start thinking about anything, that's not what's going on at that time. It never goes well. So you would think I'd stopped doing it. But it's obviously easier said than done. But like anything, it's a work in progress.

David Novak 25:39 

We all know what to do. It's just doing it. They're just so hard. For now

Justin Thomas 25:42 

I can, I can tell. I can tell anybody with the best of them what to do. But there's plenty of times when I don't what I don't practice what I preach.

David Novak 25:52 

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You've also spent a lot of time with Tiger, which is Basie. And when you think about Tiger Woods, and what he's taught you what part of the game has he helped you the most in?

Justin Thomas 26:57 

I would say imagination, you know, shotmaking and just, you know, bringing out the inner artist, I think I'm a very creative and hansy field player and I think the suit I think that's why I play well on some of those rounds, I get very windy and very difficult. Because it's you can't be you can't be over the ball thinking about is alright, I can't have this thing laid off at the top and I you know, I can't have a chuck come on down. It's like, look, I have 140 yards, and I somehow have to get the seven iron to hit the screen. And it's got to be hooking against this left, right when otherwise it's not going to hold the green and then. So it's almost like that artistic side of my brain switches on and I'm just so in just like in golf and what's going on specifically. And I think that's something he's really helped a lot with.

David Novak 27:49 

You know, I've talked to a few pros. They know you're obviously tight with Tiger, they think you've your short game is incredible. They think you've got these secrets that you picked up for Dyer. And you've got some secrets and if you have secrets, would you share it with any of your buddies? Would you share it with Jordan Spaeth?

Justin Thomas 28:07 

Ah, definitely not Jordan, I've seen him Chip, I see him chip in and off, I would happily share them with you, David, as long as you're sworn to secrecy. More not necessarily like okay, do this. It's, it's, it's really just going out. And it's the same thing as when I was a kid, you know, I just would go down to the chipping grain at Harmony. And I'd go down and chip for two or three hours, and eventually you're just gonna learn some shots just from screwing around. And I think that's really what he's done. More than anything, is you just have this feel resonates to me. And when I feel this, it makes the ball do that. And it might not work for you or I but it works for him. And that's, I've learned a thing or two from him. But I also know that he has held many, many things back for me, I am not sure of that.

David Novak 28:57 

I'd have to imagine building trust and becoming a part of that inner circle with Tiger has been extremely difficult, you know, what was it that you did as a leader to build trust so that he does take you underneath his wing?

Justin Thomas 29:10 

I mean, I think first and foremost, I was just myself, I wasn't going to be anybody else. I mean, I'm pretty sarcastic I like to joke around and I sure wasn't going to act any different around him. There's definitely times where I almost have to kind of like pinch myself when I'm in the moments, if that makes sense just because of what's going on are are having conversations with him or whatever it may be but it's really I think he he understands it sees how much it means to me and I think he'd see some similarities in how we go about some things between him and I when he you know, he was my age obviously, in terms of accomplishments and golf you know, he has me and everybody else beat by a mile but are a couple of miles with that but but he just concede that I think won it and willing I need to do as much as I possibly can to get it. And I think he respects that anybody is willing to work hard. And in this kind of, you know, just hungry and has a little bit of fire and, um, but more than anything, you know, I just want to be a friend,

David Novak 30:14 

when you're in your position as a leader in your field, and you're, you're a celebrity, obviously, how do you make sure you get the truth from everybody? I mean, you know, when you're a leader, people blow a lot of smoke, how do you make sure you you have truth tellers around you,

Justin Thomas 30:31 

you have to make some tough decisions. And I'm sure you've been in the same same scenarios and situations. But that's honestly another great piece of advice I got from from Tom Brady is just like, he's like, man, it's tough. Because the more success you have, the more people are going to want to be a part of you and your life, and people are going to come out of the woodworks from high school, middle school, whatever it is, and it just is, it's one of those things to where it's like, if a certain situation or a certain person doesn't bring out a better side of you, or something positive out of you, then there's really, life is too short to even like associate yourself with that situation or person. And it's it is, some will say it's harsh. Some will say that that's not necessarily the right thing to do. But it's true, you know, I'm, I'm so limited on my time, and there's no need for me to waste any opportunities, I have to potentially get better or bring out a better side of myself. So it's really just about associating yourself with the appropriate people and appropriate situations. I mean, we're all going to make mistakes in that regard of, of, you know, maybe trusting someone that you should never telling someone, something they shouldn't have. But especially in today's day and age, with social media and everything going on. And it's not nothing's off the record, that's for sure. And you really just have to, you know, get a very close knit inner circle, like I feel like I have and kind of stick with it.

David Novak 31:56 

You know, you seem to thrive in team environments. I know golf is pretty much an individual game. But you know, you took the University of Alabama, there's first national championship, and then you know, I don't know if there's anybody that goes more crazy in the Ryder Cup than you I bet, you know, how do you view yourself in your role on the Ryder Cup team,

Justin Thomas 32:16 

I view it the same as I hope to always view it. And it's just I'm there for whatever I'm needed for I don't want to be going into it telling everybody I'm the team captain, I'm the team leader. I don't care what I am, I just want I just want us to succeed and, and have our team do as well as possible. And if that week, the captain comes to me and says, Hey, Justin, we need you to play two matches, but we really need you to put your arm around this rookie and play with him and these two matches. And it's like, Okay, that's great. If it's, Hey, we need you to go out all five matches, and we're going to put you out with Jordan. First out, I'd say, Okay, sounds great. And it just whatever I need to do, because that week's a lot bigger than me. It's not about me, it's about playing for your country. It's about playing for your 11 other teammates. It's about playing for your three, four captains. It's about playing for your country. So I think that's, that's kind of the group and vibe that we have going right now is we have a lot of guys that are willing to do whatever they need to do. That's best for the team. And and all we care about is winning points and winning the team of that. So it's it's a pretty cool group to be a part of,

David Novak 33:27 

what's your favorite story from one of the big moments you've had at the Ryder Cup.

Justin Thomas 33:31 

I would say the Ryder Cup, beating pulse or twice in one day is is pretty great. I mean Pulitzer has been an American killer, a US killer for a long time. It was it was in the writing clip in France, which we got absolutely shellacked. But Jordan and I, we beat Poulter and ROM in the morning and then Poulter and roar in the afternoon and it was actually my old caddy Jimmie Johnson used to always say what's better than beating Poulter in the Ryder Cup, beat them twice in one day. So that was, you know, I know he takes the Ryder Cup very seriously. And that was, I mean, Jordan and I talked about that a lot. That was a huge accomplishment for us, but the Presidents Cup I when I played with Tiger in Australia, we're going to number 16 I just made a bet an 810 footer for birdie and we were I think all square at that time. And 16 is a brutal the routing they have our 16 calls a brutal driving holds and dogleg. Like it's a Darrow dogleg left and there's a tree right off the left side of the tee the winds and off the left and I'm a failure of the ball off the tee and I mean, I hate the tee shot I just it visually it's just not a good look a tee shot to me. And I'm kind of walking up there I'm trying to figure out you know, what am I going to hit off this tee like it's a long hole to where I can't necessarily hit three wood or two iron I mean Tigers gonna have to enter 20 yards and but it was the only I mean we played our own game but I just he was on the tee box, and I was like, hey, what do you what do you like off this tee or? And he just looked at me, he goes, I don't care, just put it in the fairway. The only thing he said to me was like, Okay, thanks, partner. Sounds good. And I did I hit the fairway. We won the match on 18. So it was all good. You know,

David Novak 35:21 

the closest thing that could come to the Ryder Cup, at least energy wise during the regular season is the 16 pole at the Phoenix Open. Do you like that scene? And do you wish there was more of that on tour?

Justin Thomas 35:33 

It's yeah, it's good. Once a year, in my opinion, I think some tournaments are trying to emulate it. But I don't think they understand the amount of people that are on that hole. It's, it's just wild. So there's enough to where the noise coming from people just kind of I mean, just like a football or basketball game or baseball game, it's just that it all kind of goes together. But you know, when you have 1000 people on a hole and, and 50 people yell, it's, it's pretty apparent and can be distracting. But when there's 20,000 people in a hole, and 1000 of them are saying something, it's just kind of on noise. So it's a wild atmosphere. It's a lot of fun. It's the hardest part about it is just trying to hit some little soft finesse shot, all you want to do is just hit a driver as hard as you can, because the amount of adrenaline you have, but it's a it's a very cool experience.

David Novak 36:27 

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Justin Thomas in a moment, Justin does a fantastic job of seeking out other great athletes to learn from. And one of the very greatest is the legendary Jack Nicklaus. You know, I got the honor of sitting down with Jack here on this podcast. And I love what he had to say about the importance of learning both from your successes and your failures.

Speaker 1 36:50 

I think you have to learn why you lose. If learn why you win, you have to learn how to do both. And I think businesses exactly the same way. You know, everybody makes mistakes as they're growing up trying to learn to grow a business, and you should learn from those mistakes,

David Novak 37:03 

but you also want to do something well, you learn from that to go back and listen to my entire conversation with the great Jack Nicklaus episode 21 here on how leaders lead

you know, I know success for you just isn't just on the golf course. And a few years back, you launched the Justin Thomas Foundation, tell us about it.

Justin Thomas 37:31 

I'm very very fortunate to be in the position I haven't had the opportunity to give back and yeah, we launched the Justin Thomas Foundation, five, six years ago to benefit junior golfers children in need and military families. And, you know, we've done a lot of work with the Boys and Girls Club with the First Tee a little boy and it's just having the opportunity to, to give back to kids, whether it be you know, something like an ajga grant that, you know, that I'm doing or grant that I would that I received through the Kentucky Junior Golf Association or whatever it might be and, and seeing these you know, the kids and, and, you know, some bad towns in Louisville that you know, they don't have the opportunity to get gifts for Christmas or Thanksgiving or things like that and being able to firsthand go in and see them and and see the smiles on their faces and see the amount of lives and that you can impact and in you know, we're very fortunate that taught us so much to support the troops and being able to see cat if you're having seems like every week in a program, you know, we have a veteran that'll come caddy for us. And we'll and just developing those kinds of relationships. And, you know, when you hear that they've served, you know, in Iraq for 10 or 12 years, it makes you know, that bogey that you make in the middle of your second round really not seeing that big of a deal. So we had a great event planned during the COVID year so unfortunately had to put that on hold but we're hoping to have another event here in the next year or so to where we can raise some more money and, and help really a lot of people.

David Novak 39:09 

I look forward to being a part of it. And thank you for everything you do for our troops and for everything you you do for Louisville. You know you you are seen as a fine upstanding citizen and everybody really appreciates what you do. You know, I understand you had a scare with melanoma a few years back. I mean, how is that how is that impacted you Justin?

Justin Thomas 39:30 

Yeah, it's a pretty eye opening experience. It was it was the fall of 2019. So what I was 26 years old. went in for dermatologist checkup and I had a couple of moles taken off in high school. One that was cancerous but it was early enough to where it was okay, and it's never a good good sign when you get a text from your doctor at 930 at night saying call me and gave him a call and told me he's like you have to melanoma, you know, you're gonna have to go back in, they're gonna have to, you know, do surgery, it's not a very intense surgery at all, I mean, you're awake for it, but you have to take surgery to take it out of your leg, it's on my, my left calf, and they're gonna have to, you know, send it in to get looked at to make sure it's nothing more severe and hasn't spread, being very ignorant to that didn't really understand the severity of it. And I was very, very fortunate that I hadn't spread. But he told me, I was probably three or four months away from being a patient in the hospital. And at 26 years old. That's a pretty, pretty eye opening and bizarre experience. And I'm very, very fortunate, everything's been good, since you know how to do four checkups the following year, three, the next to the next. And, um, you know, it's, I tried to tell all my friends, whether it be on tour or just at home to you know, go get checks, go go to your dermatologist, and you know, it's not like it's, it's a very intense or hard thing to do. But it man, it can have such a difference. And that's why we're able to launch the sunscreen wear SPF, you know, in the last last year, so to help, hopefully spread the awareness and bring a little bit of attention to that, because it is a very, very important thing that I think is very overlooked

David Novak 41:19 

by many. Yeah, well, thanks for building awareness of that, because it's something that affects all of us, and especially if we are blessed enough to be out there in the sun, you know, you know, Justin, it's been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more of my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this?

Justin Thomas 41:35 

Let's do it.

David Novak 41:37 

What's one word others would use to describe you?

Justin Thomas 41:40 

sarcastic?

David Novak 41:41 

What would you say is the one word that best describes you? Hungry? What's your biggest pet peeve?

Justin Thomas 41:49 

My biggest pet peeve. Oh man, I can't stand when people too loud. Like that's a I can't I can't stand that.

David Novak 41:57 

That's a Kentucky stereotype. Yeah. Imagine it's the final round of a big tournament. You're on the 18th hole, a par four and you need a birdie to win. But someone has to hit your shots for you. Who's hitting the drive.

Justin Thomas 42:14 

roaring back right,

David Novak 42:15 

who's hitting the approach shot? Tiger who's making the putt. Jordan, what's been the most nerve wracking shot of your career?

Justin Thomas 42:28 

Probably the most nervous I've ever been was my first tee shot at the Ryder Cup and 2018 in France. I still to this day say I hit five wood off the tee but when I hit a five wood off the tee I don't use an actual tee and just kind of you know I hit my club on the ground and put it on on the top of the grass. But I think if I had to try to put it on a tee I don't think I would have been able to my hands are shaking so that

David Novak 42:51 

now I know you carded the 59 during the tournament. What's your lowest score the non tournament round?

Justin Thomas 42:57 

60 or 61? I think I know shot and I know it sounds 61 A couple of times, but I'll go 61

David Novak 43:04 

What's your favorite city to travel to on the PGA Tour?

Justin Thomas 43:08 

I love San Diego. I think San Diego is beautiful.

David Novak 43:11 

Last time you were at a top golf and did you bring your own clubs.

Justin Thomas 43:18 

Last time I was at a Top Golf was probably for Jordans Jordans feed him in his wives foundation event a couple years ago and I definitely did not bring my own golf clubs.

David Novak 43:30 

Just a few more questions rather lightning round. Now you've mentioned Jordan Spieth quite a few times. And you guys have a lot of fun with each other. What's the best prank you ever pulled on him?

Justin Thomas 43:39 

I haven't done it. But the hard part about Jordan is you can't do anything too extreme because he he'll go way over the top coming back to you. So I've had to be very cautious. He he told me he had my car towed one year at Phoenix. That was that was oppressive.

David Novak 43:58 

You know, leaders, you know, we're in the moment all the time. When you're in the moment, you've got national television on you. You've got you know, the sounds being picked up, you know? And you're an emotional guy, how do you control your emotions? And stay on top of that so that you don't people don't hear what you might be thinking? Or is that something that you're more aware of now?

Justin Thomas 44:23 

A little bit, but I think most importantly is I can't change who I am. I mean, I can definitely try to change my vocabulary because of things that you know, don't need to be on national television. But, you know, I don't need to go out there and act like somebody else because it looks like they're playing better than me. But the reason why I am where I am is because of the characteristics and personality traits that I have, if that makes sense. So it's, you know what, the demeanor that you know, Patrick Cantlay has on the golf course a very even keel very level is something that would resonate For me that now Yeah, I don't want to be spiking up and down all the time. But if I can live in this area a little bit better, as opposed to just flatlining, I'm going to play better golf,

David Novak 45:10 

you use your emotion to fire you up and get done, what needs to get done, you know, what do you think Golf has to do to improve its popularity?

Justin Thomas 45:18 

I think it's on a great trend that's more accessible to, you know, to kids to I think, you know, we have so much of the middle older age generation, I truly think that more high schoolers, college kids, you know, people in their 20s are getting into golf. And it's, I think golf isn't the best place it's ever been. And I truly think if the product is just going to continue to get better on tour, and I think it'll have more viewing opportunities for people to get involved in it. So I think just keeping it fun and light and just an opportunity for, you know, people to be able to hang out with one another as is going to continue to have it grow.

David Novak 45:59 

You know, 2024, the PGA site is Valhalla, it'll be in your hometown. How do you feel about that? And do you already feel a little extra pressure there? Or do you feel like hey, I'm going in my own hometown and look out guys,

Justin Thomas 46:15 

a little bit of both, I do think there's a pretty good possibility I changed my number about a week or two before the PGA just to go ahead and make that week a little easier. But it's gonna I mean, growing up in Louisville, and you know, David is such an unbelievable sports town. And it's so cool. The I mean, Louisville means so much to me, it really does and the amount of support that I have gotten and continue to get from not only Louisville, but just Kentucky in general. It just It does. It means a lot. I mean, the I live in Florida, but I'm always going to be from Louisville, Kentucky, and I'm very, very, very proud of that. So having the opportunity to play a major championship in my hometown is one of the coolest things I could ever imagine. So I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited and anxious. But yeah, I needed I knew probably going to need to talk myself off the ledge a little bit that week, because it'll be very high, high emotion.

David Novak 47:11 

Well, we can't wait to have you that'll be awesome to have you there. And I can't wait to see a tee it up. You know, the 430 You've already you got the 15 victories, two major championships, FedEx Cup, the players, you know, what's your unfinished business?

Justin Thomas 47:26 

I mean, just one or more tournaments, I It's I want to win more majors, I want to win win more tournaments. You know, you only have one opportunity in your career to make the absolute most out of it. And, and that's what I want to do. And, you know, I've I've had a couple rungs of getting on some, some good streaks of winning some tournaments. And it's been in my, in my eyes quite a while since I've done that. So I'm very, very eager and hungry to get back to that. But also understand that I need to be patient and let it happen.

David Novak 47:57 

You know, you you're around all kinds of leaders, you're a leader, you talked about some of the great legends that you've you've spent time with. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to become a better leader?

Justin Thomas 48:13 

And I promise I'm not saying this, because I'm talking to you. But it's a book that I really got a lot out of was your book a great one. And it just was, I think this world is so so used to only saying something to somebody if it's negative, or if it's like, hey, you need to do this better, hey, you're not doing this well versus tell someone when they're doing something, right, I'd really try to tell bones like, Hey, you did it, you did a really, really good job today of keeping me at the moment, I don't need to tell him, if it gives me a bad yardage. If if I'm cussing them out and fly the green when I wanted to hit another club, he's probably going to get the idea already. But I don't think there's enough positive reinforcement in our world and, and just in general, and that's something I promise I'm not just blowing smoke to you. But I really, really learned a lot from that. And I've tried to use that a lot with my team of just positive reinforcement and letting people know when they're doing well, because if they look up to you, then then they need to you need to be respectful of him.

David Novak 49:15 

Well, thank you very much for that. Justin. I appreciate it. And thank you for what you're doing on tour. What you're doing in the community, the leadership that you're you're projecting and your love for our country. I love how you you make it happen at the Ryder Cup Presidents Cup and just what you're doing with veterans. You know, you're you're a true American on that front. And I appreciate you being at being on this show. And I want you to know that this is probably the first big interview you've ever done where somebody didn't ask you about live.

Justin Thomas 49:45 

Yeah. It isn't about well, I guess about a year.

David Novak 49:51 

So I'll leave that the Golf Channel. Thanks a lot, buddy. I appreciate it.

Justin Thomas 49:56 

Thanks, David. Yeah, man.

David Novak 50:05 

Well, there's no doubt in my mind, Justin Thomas is one of Louisville's finest both on and off the golf course. And as you can hear in this conversation, Justin is really intentional about the mentality he has on the course. Now, he may not always get it, right. I mean, nobody does. But he understands the power of managing his mindset. For him. That means staying present when he plays and not letting his mind go into what he calls Candyland mode, where it gets way ahead of himself. And his mind starts to wonder. It's true in golf and is true and leadership. Your success starts with your mindset, how you mentally process and respond to what's going on around you matters so much. If you want to get big things done. You've got to be ready to handle whatever responsibilities and challenges come your way. And you can't do that. Well. If you aren't in a good frame of mind. This week, ask yourself, How can you manage your own mentality better? What thoughts come into your head that aren't actually serving you? Well, just by being aware of those tendencies, it'll be easier for you to keep your mentality where it needs to be to lead your team well. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders manage their mindset. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Nat Turner, he's the CEO of collectors.

Nat Turner 51:29 

If you're going to start a company just get started. The idea you start with will very likely not be the idea you end with so just getting started is 99% of it. You know you same goes with exercise and anything just make the initial effort, you know, get out there and start and then pivot that's the thing you have strong opinions loosely held.

David Novak 51:45 

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be