Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Annie Young Scribner, CEO of Wella, which is one of the world 's top beauty companies. I got to tell you. I love it when I'm talking to someone and we get into a certain topic and their whole face just lights up. You know what I mean? That's Annie when she talks about growth and boy, she has just a phenomenal track record of growth in her prior roles at Gadaiva, Starbucks and PepsiCo. Now look, you don't get that kind of consistency without being a strong leader. And one thing that makes Annie a strong leader is that she intentionally surrounds herself with diverse perspectives. And not just that, she really listens and learns from them. That is a must have skill for a leader. And you've got to seek out people who see things differently than you if you want to make better decisions, build stronger teams and really push yourself and your organization to grow. So let's dive in and see how it's done. Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Annie Young Scribner. Annie, it's great to have you on the show. Are you kidding? It's a pleasure. David to spend time with the one and only David Novak. I'm so excited. Well, you're the one and only Annie, so I'm excited as well. I understand when you were 13, you would cut and perm people's hair. Not only this, you had repeat customers. What do you think that teenage version of Annie would say if I told her that one day she'd be the CEO of one of the world's largest beauty companies? I think she would be super happy at that time because I wasn't making any money , even though I had repeat customers. You know, when I was a kid, even at 10, I knew I wanted to run a business and I loved cutting hair. It was in the 70s. I owned my own perm rods. I also did perms. It was just incredibly fun. To be in the beauty industry today, it's a dream come true. So it was basically in your DNA and here you are the CEO. I want to talk to you about how you're leading it well, but before I do that, I want to take you back. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today ? I was born in Taiwan and moved to the States when I was seven and I always knew I was different. I looked at my shoes, my clothes. It didn't look like everybody else, but I think that it almost gave me a little bit of freedom to allow me to be different. And growing up, my parents both worked outside. They also had businesses, different businesses, not really successful businesses, but they had different businesses that they tried. So I've been surrounded by entrepreneurs. And I think that kind of shaped me. But I would also tell you, this goes way back, in junior high, in ninth grade, I went to one of my teachers and I said, I have a big idea. I want to raise money for the school and I want to do a fashion show. And instead of saying, no, she said, well, how would you get the clothes? How would you do this? And she allowed me to go to the mall, ask different people to donate clothes because I pitched to them. If all these teens were watching their clothes go down the runway, they could elevate their sales. We raised actually a good amount of money for a junior high benefit event. That is great. So you're a business person from day one. I understand when you move from Taiwan to the United States as a seven year old , you didn't know any English. What kind of impact did that have on you, Annie? I was learning my ABCs. And I think when you can't speak the language, you use other skills. So observation, watching people's behavior and their moods, their gesture became something that was very natural for me because I couldn't speak the language. And I think that has actually been very helpful for me as I've gone through my career. You know, I was so looking forward to this conversation, Annie, because we both worked in PepsiCo and we have a lot of friends in common. And tell me about the first leadership role you had at Pepsi and what that experience taught you. So you'll have to know that I started in the leadership training program. And the first tranche of the program is I had my own truck, 18 foot truck. I loaded the product. I went to the store, stock the shelves, sold the display. That was incredibly tough. If I did not do that role, though, my next role, which is my first leadership role, I became a district sales leader, very, very proud. I was 22 at the time. Everybody on my team was 45 years old or older in a Teamster Union environment. And the first thing they said is, you're younger than my daughter. What are you going to teach me? So I think my first lesson was to really appreciate people's work and to understand that I wasn't going to be the smartest person in the room. But what I could do is to learn best practices from each of them. So find out what was important for them. And then galvanize learning so that together the team could achieve because they were each acting as individual versus his team. We had a ton of fun. We won every single district contest. Those early lessons have imprinted me forever. You know, that's interesting because, you know, I work in the modeling business myself and you're dealing with these route salesmen and they've got all this great experience. And here you are, 22. And, you know, when I was coming up in business, you know, I had to work with people who had a lot more experience than me and sometimes they reported to me. And I found that to be very challenging. How did you win these people over so that you could ultimately get all the great results that you achieved? I think it was appreciating them and really understanding them as individual and understanding what was important to them. Secondly, it was working hard side by side along them. I came in earlier. I left way later and I think I just ended up growing on them. And they also felt that there was initially a divide between management and the sales representatives. And nobody wanted to be a district sales leader. And I think my proudest moments were two of the people actually said, "I want to become a district sales leader." So that was a huge win. That's fantastic. We also share in common a great deal of respect for Andrew Newey, the former chairman and CEO of PepsiCo. And I understand that she was a mentor of yours. What did Indra teach you about leadership? Indra is one of the most amazing people in the world. She has been able to be a mentor on the personal side, also on the professional side. When I was running the China business for the PepsiCo food and snack division, she would often come to China because it was such a big piece of the business. And I had the opportunity to be in very senior meetings with her, to watch her navigate the room, to spend time with her in New York. She always had time, but not only just for the business aspect, but also on the personal side as well. Now, you spent 20 years at PepsiCo before making this move to Starbucks. That's a long time to stay in one place. What drove that change? What happened that made you say, "Hey, I'm going to try something new?" I still bleed blue. I still never drink any Coca-Cola products. I'm very loyal to the PepsiCo brand. And really, I could have been there forever. The Starbucks opportunity was unique. It allowed me to have a global remit. It'll also allow me to get back home to Seattle. And the two combined was a rarity. And this is a time when Howard had come back to run the business and he was rec reating his leadership team. And I became the first global chief marketing officer. And that role, it's not just the branding, but it's also the products that you experience when you're in a Starbucks store. And I had the opportunity to build consumer insights, data analytics, and also build out research and development, which really helped the organization focus on customer needs, states, and day part. Because the goal was, how can we ensure that we double the AUV and still ensure that we have this amazing experience for customers? We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Annie Young Scribner in just a moment. As you've heard us talk, Annie and I both work with the legendary Indra Nui at PepsiCo. Annie talks about why Indra is a phenomenal leader. But guess what? You've got this opportunity to hear it for yourself. Indra was a fascinating guest on my podcast. And I absolutely loved our conversation. It's all about the importance of elevating others. And boy, is there some powerful stuff in there. My grandfather, my paternal grandfather was a very strong figure in our family. Always believed that it didn't matter if you were a girl or a boy. Just study hard, work hard, and always deliver on what you committed to deliver upon. And if you did that, your life is going to be set forever. And don't be too ambitious, don't be too political, don't always be thinking about the next thing you want to do. Just do what you're given. Do it well. And do it better than anybody else can do it. And if you did that, the whole world will sit up and take notice. If you need a big dose of inspiration this week, then you've got to check out my conversation with Indra. Episode 9 here on How Leaders Lead. Well you're an incredible brand leader and you've got a great reputation for taking brands and taking them to the next level. You move from the job you just described, which is very focused on the Starbucks brand. When you took over as president of the Starbucks Canada, what was the biggest shift you had to make in your transition from being a brand or a product leader to being a general manager? I'm going to give you another name that you know, and that's Craig Weatherup. Craig Weatherup was the head of the board and he was also my mentor. And one of the things that he said to me is, Annie, you think you know Canada, you don't know Canada. So when you get to Canada, really relearn Canada through the lens of the people that are there versus being the CMO. So one of the things that he taught me is to do an extensive listening tour. And I asked simple questions, tell me three things that you're really proud of that you would keep doing, three things that you would stop. And if you had a Harry Potter magic wand, what's the two things that you would do to change the trajectory of the business? Then I synthesized that and then we put a plan in play. And the Canada business was not performing well at the time. By the time I left, it was accelerating. And the next person that came in continued to accelerate the business. I worked on the Canada business when I was at Pepsi and Canadians are very proud. They're not just the northern addition of the United States. And they take great pride in their culture and rightly so. Craig, I worked for Craig Weatherup and he taught me a lot. Was there anything that he taught you that really helped you develop as a leader? Absolutely. You know, one of the things he told me is, Annie, your derailleur will be your strive to be a perfect. He said, "Don't be like that." And he gave me an example. He said, "When you come to the board room, you have all the answers, all the answers." And I said, "Craig, I stay up all night just to make sure I know the answers because I feel like it's very disrespectful not to know." He said, "No, the board just wants to have a conversation with you." I said, "What if I don't know the answer?" He said, "Just say, I'm going to get back to you." I know that sounds silly, but I asked him, I go, "That's going to be okay." No, he's crazy. That's funny. I got to tell you a funny story about Craig. You know, when I was at Pepsi, there was this incident with syringes. Some people put some syringes in, some Pepsi cans. And it was a big crisis. You know, it was a major issue that we had to handle well with the press. And I remember going and talking to Craig into his office when he was going to be interviewing with Larry King. And I said, "What do you do when you're going on live with Larry King?" He said, "I'm reading my mail." But you know, he knew his business so well. He was so confident that he could answer any questions that Larry had. And I think that's what he's saying to you. You knew your business, just trust in that, and things will go just fine. Now, your last role at Starbucks was you, I believe you were the global leader of digital development and loyalty. What are some practical things every brand can do to create a bond and loyalty with their customers? I think a couple of things. I think you have to be true to your brand. Don't see what the competitor is doing and say, "Let's go do that." Be true to your brand. And I think if you look at the Starbucks rewards program, it has been so successful for many reasons, the authenticity. And also making sure that when you're leveraging the data to connect with your customers, make it relevant. It has to be that one to one. And I think those are the key things to ensure that you could leverage that to make it work. You were so successful at Starbucks and Pepsi, you were asked to take over as a CEO of Gadaiva, which from what I understand, that was your first CEO job. What's something about being the CEO that caught you by surprise? Loneliness. So having a great board is so important because then you could leverage the board to have various conversation with. Because when things are going tough or when things are going really great, you have to stay very balanced for your team. And I think also ensuring that you have a great network externally as well to help shape your thinking. And there's always things that are around the corner that you're considering to have that network to bounce idea along with your board was really important. How did you go about creating that network? That's interesting. I love people. I like learning from people. I was also very privileged to sit on the board of Macy, Inc. and then also Tiffany and Co. And so leveraging those board of directors that were there as well has been helpful. And I'm also very involved at the Foster School of Business, University of Washington Business School. And I'm on the Dean's Council. And there are fabulous leaders that also contribute and networking with them also has been helpful. And you've had some incredible leadership opportunities. You don't get those opportunities unless you really grow the businesses that you've been a part of. If you had to boil it down, what would you say are the real keys to growing a business? Creating value for the companies is critical. So a couple of things. One, do the listening tour and you'll find that there are golden nuggets, ideas that's really consumer relevant that you can probably double or triple. So look at total addressable market opportunities, but also figure out within your industry, what are the problems that hasn't been solved? And are there innovation ideas to solve that? I've always doubled down on a couple of things and ensure the entire organization is aligned. And value creation is both getting growth, but also ensuring that your growth becomes more profitable. So what are the things that's not driving profit and how do you remove that as well so that you could reinvest? Makes a lot of sense. And one of the things you kind of touched on a little bit earlier when you were talking about some of the feedback you got from Craig was that I've heard you say that you could be very critical of yourself, put a lot of pressure on yourself to have all the answers, for example. How does this impact how you lead with your team when things don't go as planned? Gosh, that's a good question. They would probably tell you, I ask probably more questions than usual and then have ideas because I want to be helpful in helping them solve the problem. And then sometimes it's also just sitting back and almost allowing them to fail and then allowing them to fail quickly. I'll give you an example. I have a rule with just my direct reports. I'll do the final interview. The slate has to be diverse. And then I'll do the final interview of the candidate. And I have not said no to anybody because there wasn't anybody that I said there's no way this person would add value to our company. But I would say, hey, here's a couple of watchouts and you should go back and deep dive into this area because I see this could be a concern. And usually I'm right. But if I just say, hey, you can't hire this person, people won't learn. Yeah, so you put it back at them and they go through that learning process. When it comes to business, we're not 100% right all the time. We have failures. Are you ever risk averse after a recent failure? If so or if not, how do you work through it? And if you could share a story, it'd be great. I think that you always question yourself, but you have to lean in because making mistakes is part of life. It's just that you don't want to make the same exact mistake again. And I could give you an example. We launched a product called True Gray. It's for people that are graying, but they want to go natural gray, but really they don't because gray, not all gray hairs look beautiful. So we launched a product that's called True Gray. It didn't necessarily work out well in every single market, but we didn't say, wow, the next innovation we launched, we're not going to go do. But instead, what we did is we took the lessons learned to apply to our new innovation launch, which is called Ultimate Repair, Miracle Hair Rescue, in which we could repair damaged hair in 90 seconds. And you could say, wow, how did you take from that learning into this? I think it's making sure that we really understand the consumer needs. And we focus on the data and the analytics. And that, I believe, is going to be a big, big change for us. That's great. And I know you're a big believer in surrounding yourself with people who think and act differently than you. Do you have a story where someone really pushed you beyond where you were comfortable and it ended up being a good thing? You know, I've always known that I have opportunities in certain areas and strengthen others. And that's like everybody. And I think that when you create a team, you can actually create that perfect person. And it has to be a team that's diverse. Otherwise, you'll have the same opportunity areas. And so people that challenge me in an uncomfortable way are typically people that are introverts. And I actually think they do the best on helping me grow the business and rethink what we're going to go do. And oftentimes, especially in this world where it's more digital, you're doing your business half the time on Teams or Zoom, I always make sure that I'm actually breathing the deck on an iPad and I'm watching faces on the screen. And to be really observant of their cues, particularly the people that are more introverted and call them out on their ideas, that has been a real helpful trick. So here you are now. You're the CEO of Wella. If you would, give us a snapshot of the Wella business. The Wella business is 140 years old, it was started by entrepreneurs in Germany . It was sold to Procter & Gamble. And when Procter & Gamble purchased it, they said, you know, this is not what we do. So we had Wella was end to end for the professional. If Dave, you wanted to be a hairdresser, you just come to Wella, we would help you design your salon, help you sell you furniture, because we had a furniture department, sell you all the different equipment. And so when Procter came in, they said, this is not us, we're going to sell this part. Later on, they sold the business to Cody and then KKR, private equity firm, purchased two different divisions of Cody and put it into one. And so today we play in the 100 billion beauty category and we're one of the fastest growing business in hair, nail and also beauty tech. You love growth, you light up when you start talking about growth. You're described as someone who accelerated growth through innovation while honoring the brand's heritage. Now, you're CEO of Gadaiva. What did you learn from Gadaiva that you're now bringing over to Wella, a company who also has a rich brand history? Gadaiva has such a rich history as well. You know, it was founded in 1926. And so it was an opportunity to elevate and enrich the brand and also expand the brand's accessibility. And I think that's the big thing that we're bringing to Wella. So Wella is comprised of many brands, OPI, Nell Polish was founded by a woman founder, Susie, Eva Graham founded Niaoxen, which is a hair care brand. And she created that business with $500 in her pocket. And it was incredibly successful. We have Sebastian professional. All of these incredible founder stories. We've been able to uplift, keeping the essence, but also modernizing for the future. And we recently purchased Briaggio, which is founded by Nancy Twine, one of the largest African American female owned beauty businesses that is focused on etho ethical clean. So I think for us, what's really exciting is the brand building. The second piece from the Popsico days is you learn to love small businesses. And Wella supports over 500,000 small businesses across 100 countries around the world. So and we love small businesses because every healthy economy is comprised of healthy small business. Well, that's a tremendous scope of your company. And you know, one of the things that's very interesting is I had the opportunity to take over pizza, Taco Bell and KFC when Popsico spun off the three restaurants. You moved in as the inaugural CEO of a company that kind of merged together. Talk about that and what the big challenge was for you because you had to bring companies together. Companies together. And then also the biggest challenge was to create the culture because you had well a old walla culture, old proctor and gamble culture, and then the old Cody culture. And then as we were developing the new well a company, what's the culture that we want to create? And so we aligned our values. And then we also leverage all the listening tours that myself and the leadership team were doing to say, here is the fabric of what we want to do. We want to be able to create a performance driven company where people could bring their best self to work. And we want to ensure that we could allow people to be their true selves leveraging our products. It's obvious after hearing some of this episode that Annie knows the power of listening, both to the customer, but especially with her employees. You know, I believe that listening is a key skill that every great leader should have. If you aren't listening to what your employees are actually thinking, feeling and saying, you miss out on key insights that could positively impact this trajectory of your business. This idea of listening to your employees and really getting inside their minds is a critical part of the leadership philosophy I teach in my course called taking people with you. If you want to get big things done as a leader, it's crucial that you take the time to understand the perceptions, habits and beliefs of your employees and listen to what they 're truly struggling with and what they truly want. Gathering those insights is something a lot of leaders just don't do. And I believe that holds a leader and a business back. So if you want to learn how to listen to your employees and gather insights that will really take your business to the next level, get access to taking people with you today. It's completely free and you can get access for you and your entire team at how leaderslead.com. Again, that's at howleaderslead.com. I've heard you say that you want to make sure that you're growing the right way . What does the right way mean to you? And what ways are you trying to influence that kind of growth? I think growing the right way is not only is your company growing, but you're also helping the industry. And I think the acts that you perform could also elicit better economic health for the entire industry. So a great example is the beauty business on the professional side comprises of small businesses. And so we're very focused on their economics. How do we help them drive trips into their salons? And when they're in there, how do we ensure that we could teach them the best way to service their customers? So we have the Wella Power 4, which is about power booking. How do you book your clients? How do you ensure that you do cross-sell, upsell, and add-ons? And that's been very helpful. The second piece is when you look at the earth and the planet, we have such a responsibility. So we're really thinking through how do we ensure that we take care of water? And this is how we're doing it. Because when you think about when I went in, I said, "How do we ensure that we have shampoos, that have no water?" And what my research and development team said is it's not just that. It's reducing water for that, but it's also the rinse-off process. And you're in the shower, and when you're at the basin. So we're very careful on how do we use clean formulation and how much water are we using? We're also very focused on plastic and carbon. We're a very young company, but we actually signed on to the United Nations Global Compact as a company that was less than two years old. So we have our Scope 1, 2, and 3 lined out, and we're very, very bullish on diversity within our organization as well. I found it interesting when I was doing my research that in the beauty industry , it's comprised of 89% women. And yet, you're only one of seven female CEOs in your industry. What's the opportunity you see in developing female leaders, and what are you personally doing about it? Yeah, I think that you would want the organization to mirror your consumer group. So I think for us, what we're trying to do is to ensure that we always hire the best candidate, but the slate has to be very diverse. At my leadership team level, we're 40% female diverse, and I'm really proud to share that my board of directors is 50/50. And I have incredible board of directors, and we have the gender ratio as well. You're very focused on developing others, and I know a couple of years ago, you put together a digital training program and made it available free to people. Tell us about it and how you got so many people involved. This is a time when the entire world was locked down. You couldn't go outside or you had to be really masked up. And for the beauty industry, we support artists in so many ways, and everybody was locked in in their little apartment or home. And so we did an event called We Create in which we usually charge $200 for a session. We gave it all the way for free, in which people can learn best practices from global artists around the globe. What it did is it re-inspired people, gave people new skill sets so that when COVID was over and things were back to normal, they had new skill sets. Those are the things that we continue to do for the industry, and it's been incredibly rewarding. Well, it has multiple brands in different parts of the beauty industry. And as the CEO, what rhythms and routines do you follow to ensure that you stay on top of all that's going on in such a diverse business? We definitely have a lot of people that's always sharing ideas for us, and we 're always looking at products. Just like when you're at Yum Branch, you're tasting a lot of different food. We're trying a lot. Trying a lot of shampoo, conditioner, different formulation, understanding what the needs of the consumer are. It is such a fun industry. I think it's making sure that when we're looking at trends, it's not just from one part of the world, but it's from all different parts of the world. And then there are certain pockets that set the trend. So we're hyper-focus on that, and we have a very good team that's also doing social listening as TikTok is creating new trends every single day. And then to be really true to our brands, we can't do everything. So you have to be true to your brand and then how do you elevate? And bringing innovation that's truly differentiated is very helpful. We have a brand that's called GHD Good Hair Day. It was founded in the UK. It's a London brand. And when you go to the UK, you don't curl your hair or style your hair. You GHD your hair. And we just launched an innovation that has been in the works for nine years. It basically dries your hair and style your hair with one tool with no damage. It's incredible. And it's just blowing up across the globe. And we figured this out because women want something that's easy, beautiful, and unique. And this does it all with no damage. And you share this learning and these insights across your brands. And that really helps you innovate everywhere. You've said something interesting about your listening tour, which I really loved. It was that you asked this question that you said that's a Harry Potter question. If you could wave your magic wand, what are the three things you do to improve your company? What are some of the most memorable ideas that people have given you when you 've asked that question? You know, when I started, we were still connected to Cody. And so a lot of the answer was about technology, separation, new technology, new technology. That was definitely a consistent theme. But there was also things on investing in our brands. There's such incredible passion for the brand and the business had been under invested. And so to percolate some of the ideas has just mobilized the entire organization. And back in the PepsiCo days, we had the share power, which was incredible because everybody had the owner's mindset. And I'm really proud that we just launched an employee based equity plan as well two weeks ago, in fact. And it's called wow. And it's called we own our way. But when people hear about it, they go, wow, wow, because you don't have to do anything. You're a part of it. And you know, because we're owned by KKR and this is something that KKR has done for their other companies when they exit, everybody will monetize. That's great. And I remember the PepsiCo share power and basically you got 10% of your salary went into options. They were given to you at every ploy. And I remember Wayne Callaway, the chairman of PepsiCo always talked about that . And say, do it for the company and do it for yourself, which I think is really key. It really captures that ownership mindset. You touched on this a little bit earlier. You're all over the consumer and where the consumer's heading. How do you tap into the needs of your customers so that you know what products to give them next? What's happening with hair happened to skin about 20 years ago? If you go into a bathroom counter 20 years ago, you might have one cream for women. Now you have something for the eye, something for your jaw, something for your neck, something for your face. And depending on the season, you change. That's happening to hair now because there's much more sophistication. What should you use on your scalp? How do you get more volume on your hair? I don't think people know that you should be using a different shampoo for your scalp than the rest of your hair. And depending on your hair type, you should be using a mask. You should be using a serum to protect your hair at night. And so the only difference between skin and hair is skin regenerates itself. So hair actually needs a little bit more help. So that is called the skinification of hair. And we are teaching consumers on how to better take care of their hair for their future. The skinification of hair and the GHD, the good hair day, I'm going to ask my wife if I'm having a good hair day. I love the way you put these phrases together. It's great. It makes it simple. Annie, this has been so much fun. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? Sure. Let's go. Okay. What's one word others would use to best describe you? Wow. Let me think. They would say, "I'm fun and I think big." That's two. Two things. But I'll let you get away with it. What would you say is the one word that best describes you? I'm caring. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why? I would be my great grandfather because I was always curious what that was like . He was in China. He ran the Yunnan province. I would always wonder what was it like during that time? What's your biggest pet peeve? Being on time. I can't help it. It just drives me nuts when I'm late or when someone else is late. When was the last time you gave someone a perm? Oh, I could tell you about two months ago. I gave my son a perm. It's coming back. All the boys want perms. And I actually had to repurchase perm rods. Do you want one Dave? I think I need a perm. I need a little bit of more body in my hair for sure. What's something that you'd only know about China if you were born there or your family was from there? Yes, doesn't always mean yes. But what they will do is they will say, "Kui, kui," which means, "Yes, I can. Yes, I can." But it doesn't mean, "Yes, they're going to do it." What's a book on leadership that you bought and given away the most copies of? It would be and for a new lease book, I bought so many for so many people. I think she has just some great lessons in there. I'm reading Henry Kissinger's new leadership book right now. What's your go-to order at Starbucks? Oh, I could tell you. It is double-shore latte with just a little milk, whole milk foam. Part chocolate or white chocolate? Milk chocolate. There you go. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You would hear my dad. My dad was a professional singer in Taiwan and he used to make his own CD for his customers. He recently passed, so I listened to him all the time when I'm in the car. What's something about you that few people would know? I was a ballerina. Wow, great. Now I know we're out of the lighting round. A great job, by the way. I know you're on the board of young brands, my former company. When you go in there and sit in those board meetings, what are the kind of things you're listening for? Where do you find that you offer the most unique insight? I listen for the business and digital. I think there's huge transformation on digital and I think the young team has done a great job adding digital assets. Talent. You have done a great job. Your other CEOs have followed you. David's in the role now creating the next generation of talent. I think where I could be most helpful is looking at the business, looking at M& A opportunities. What could accelerate growth for the future? It's such an amazing board and I'm so pleased to be on it with Brian with all these fabulous board of directors. It's a fun board. Brian, who Annie's referring to, is Brian Cornell. Love Brian Cornell. He's a great, great person. How do you any navigate and balance career with family? I'm sure your attention is constantly pulled in several directions and Enda writes about that in her book. It's not easy and I don't think the same playbook works for everybody. For myself and my husband, we decided that one of us should stay home and he became the stay at home parent. I've always traveled so much with my job but there's real, I call it mom guilt. There's real guilt on how many times I've moved my family and I think you could just do the best. During COVID, my son said to me, "Wow, this is the most time that I've spent with you. We've had dinner every single night. It's been amazing." I think that you can't feel guilty because at the end of the day, they're actually here with me in New York. They're on their spring break and they chose my sons in college not to go to Florida but to hang out with mom in New York. So did something right. Yeah, you must be doing something right. As you can say. Now, if you could go back and give a pep talk to the 13-year-old Annie that was giving cuts and perms to her friends, what would you tell her? I would tell her to be more patient, be more patient, enjoy life. I'm always thinking, "Okay, what should I go do next? What should I go do next?" I remember being at PepsiCo in my early career where six months seemed like forever, one year in a role, a long time. And I would just be more patient. And I think as I age, as I age like a fine bottle of wine, I'm learning that. What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader? I would say listen, listen and be thoughtful and go back and teach. I think that's probably the most important thing. And I think each individual will have their strength. So that could be someone's superpower already. But for me, what's been really helpful is really listening and then acting and act with speed. And I just had a couple closing thoughts. I think what's helped me is to be able to dream big, define your own destiny. Because as a little Chinese girl, not knowing a stitch of English, I think if I didn't have a dream of becoming a CEO, I would never be here today and take calculated risk . I took a whole bunch of jobs that others would say, "Why are you taking that?" But for me, it's to be able to see around the corner and really learn from great leaders. And don't be afraid of failure. If you fail, just feel fast, don't make the same mistakes and make sure that you're giving back. Give back to those that are around you and support others, uplift others. Well, thanks for those thoughts because I think they're absolutely right on for every leader. I want to thank you, Annie, for taking the time to be on this show. Your reputation precedes you. You have such a fantastic track record of impacting growth and people wherever you've been. And I've really enjoyed catching up with you on this podcast and thank you for all you're doing to make the world a better place. It is amazing. Thank you so much for selecting me for this episode. I've enjoyed every single minute. I've got to tell you, it's so powerful to hear Annie's story. How she moved here from Taiwan, still learning her ABCs as a kid, to today, literally living her dream of leading companies and building strong teams. And really, at every point along the way, she has never stopped listening. She intentionally seeks out other people's perspectives, especially when they 're different from hers. And when you embrace those outside perspectives, it's a game changer. Like Annie mentioned, you find big opportunities to create value. You build stronger teams and you make better decisions because you've got people pushing you to think differently. That's the power of surrounding yourself with different perspectives. And to help you tap into that this week, I want you to think about someone in your work world who thinks differently than you. You may not want to hear it, and it may be the person you probably butt heads with the most, but schedules some time to grab coffee or lunch with that person. Get their take on the big questions you're currently working through. I bet you will learn a ton from their perspective and leave with some big insights. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders surround themselves with different perspectives. Coming up next on How leaders lead is Michael Walrus, chairman and CEO of Yext. Founders, they live in the future and they build what's missing. And I think the only way you do that is by analyzing all the time what's missing, what's not right here, what could be better, what can work better. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]