David Novak 0:04 

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, my guest today is one of the best brand builders I've ever met Ben Weprin, the CEO of AJ capital, which includes the iconic line of graduate hotels. He's also developed hospitality partnerships with Field and Stream Chip and Joanna Gaines and get this. He's even got a hotel right now on the 18th. Green at St. Andrews. I gotta tell you, when I heard that, I nearly dropped everything and went straight to the airport. But no matter what he's working on, then always taps into the power of storytelling, to connect with people. Stories are at the heart of every hotel and any space his company creates. And it's a big factor in how he's building and inspiring his team to win you listen to Ben, it's clear. If you want to connect with people, you need to understand how to use storytelling, you're gonna find so many great insights here on how you can leverage the power of story to make stronger connections with your customers and team. So let's get to it. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Ben Weprin.

One of the most amazing things that's happened to me in the last five months is that I am playing golf with you. And you say, you may not remember me, but I was at your son in law's wedding or your daughter's wedding and actually was at your house. Now, this was 17 years ago. And my son in law, Jonathan Butler was your very first employee, I mean, talk about a small world.

Ben Weprin 1:56 

It really is, what a small world. And I remember, you know, John was a great guy. And super vividly. I mean, I got to give him a lot of a lot of credit, and we had no clue what we were doing. He must have answered an ad in the paper. And, you know, like, there was zero leadership going on, but him having the confidence in the trust to work with us. I mean, we were at a, you know, a bad office in the middle of downtown Nashville, two guys trying to figure it out. I'm surprised we had enough furniture for John. He came and worked hard every single day. And I remember going to his wedding. And I remember meeting you. And you know, I've been exposed and surrounded myself by, you know, people that you know, just seeing it right, you're a product of what you're exposed to. I remember listening to you talk, it was so inspiring. And then, you know, learning about you and who you are, and what you're doing the brands is a really great experience for me. And I remember going like, Man, I gotta get my shit together. You know, it's time. So John's a great guy. And you know, please tell him I said, hello and say my best. Well,

David Novak 2:54 

you've gotten your way and he's gone his he's now a family counselor. And you're one of the biggest brand builders in the hotel and resort business out there. And, and you obviously have a knack for finding talent, John being one of those guys, but what do you look for? When you're hiring talent? And how has it evolved over the years?

Ben Weprin 3:16 

Yeah, we've done a lot of, you know, people finding us more than us finding them. And I think it takes time to really figure out who you're, you know, who's gonna jive? Well, just terms of the cultural fit, and the impact. I mean, we really look for people that are passionate about what they do, you know, people that are into problem solving, that are entrepreneurial, that want to take on a lot of responsibility. I mean, you want people that are mission driven, or that are inspired by what you're doing. You know, it's not like, you know, you think about us going into opening in a hotel in a university anchored market, it's a small town, a small community, it's not that we're necessarily going to pay more than the Holiday Inn or Hampton Inn or Hilton Garden Inn or whatever our competitive set is. But we have a real mission, right? We want to humanize hospitality through space. And people are inspired by that. It's the same idea that, you know, you're not going to make more working at the Apple Store as opposed to T Mobile. But I'm guaranteeing the customer service, the experience, nobody has a T Mobile tattoo on their arm. But people join Apple because they want to be part of something bigger than them. And we really look out for those people.

David Novak 4:19 

Yeah, I always say nobody ever goes to work every day wanted to be a part of something mediocre and you built a great company. Give us a snapshot of AJ capital in the in the work you and your team do,

Ben Weprin 4:30 

you know, are ideas to build the most meaningful places and the most meaningful spaces, and really create the backdrop for memorable experiences. We look at a lot of overlooked markets that we think are consistent with, you know, our passions and our pursuits. And then we tried to, you know, really humanize hospitality and manifest, really design driven specific faces that reflect their community every product should solve a problem. Every product should tell a story and every product should reflect the culture and the community where it resides. And so, you know, we're well known for the brand graduate hotels, which is in 37 markets around the US in the UK. We started a brand about four years ago or three years ago called marine and lawn, which is around building hotels that reflect as spectacular as the, you know, courses and communities where they reside hotels that mirror that St. Andrews North Barra Dornach Portrush, Royal county downs, you know, markets like that we're going to be coming into the US but that shortly, we just launched another brand 1871 iconic heritage brand filled in stream, we're taking that idea of, you know, that lifestyle type product and applying it to limited select Service hotels, in you know, outdoor recreational driven markets, we're partners with Barry Stern, like and Starwood capital on that. And then we started building, you know, communities that have mixed use, whether it's residential office retail, really building a collaboration effect of like minded companies that mirror each other and come together to create a really inspiring backdrop in spaces that people can connect to. And so, you know, we're always looking for new ways to grow and evolve and recreate ourselves and disrupt ourselves and think that, you know, better design is a better business and the physical world, you know, has limitations, but your imagination doesn't. And so we continue to try to push those boundaries and not settle.

David Novak 6:21 

You're best known for graduate hotels, which you'd launched in 2014, how'd you put together your initial strategy to try and fill the gap in the market that you saw,

Ben Weprin 6:33 

we had done for sort of design driven boutique hotels in Chicago, hotel, Lincoln was the first one, it was a Days Inn that had been closed down and shuttered for five years in the neighborhood where I lived in Lincoln Park. We then did Thompson, Chicago, Soho House, Chicago, and Chicago Athletic Association, kind of look back. And hotel, Lincoln was, you know, just in terms of, you know, pure ROI was the highest and tried to understand what were the characteristics that really made that such a success. And, you know, we found out it was, you know, incredibly high barrier to entry, you know, market, there was no competitive set in the competitive set was, you know, obsolete or tired or just not much of anything. So, that created a lack of, you know, sort of competition, which is, you know, really important attribute in business is Can you can you make your own game, that's a good way to win. And then we really connected the people on a visceral human level by telling the story through the physical space, people taking ownership of it. And so we started looking at ways we could replicate that and other major markets and went to, you know, Westwood and LA or, you know, outside of New York and NYU L. And I should have mentioned DePaul was pretty close to the university was close to hotel Lincoln, we had a lot of business from that school. And as I mentioned, we really told the sort of what Bill Bradley says, you know, you can you can fool the fans, you can't fool the players, we really connected the players because we told those very specific stories that you would get those inside jokes of the neighborhood. Frank Baum, who wrote Wizard of Oz live the neighborhood, John Parker was the name of Abraham Lincoln's bodyguard, who was drinking when he was shot. And so we named the rooftop bar Jay Parker, David Mamet, the playwright lived in the hotel for a while and wrote this article about a lane who would call them in the mornings, or a coffee shop was a lanes coffee call. So taking all that and applying that neighborhood in the know, into these markets outside of major metropolitan areas, and one of the guys in my office was like, you should check out an arbor. And I should have mentioned, I'm from Ohio, I do not like Michigan. And I was like, I don't want to go there. He's like, You should check it out. It's a really spectacular town. And it's got a lot of similar characteristics. There's just one hotel. And so I go to Ann Arbor, and I'm like, damn, this place is awesome. And it's really just spectacular, just in terms of the Collegian atmosphere, the experience, the academia, the nostalgia, and there's one hotel downtown that absolutely dominates, but, you know, it was it didn't, you know, have the infrastructure or distribution or, you know, sort of modern amenities of a sort of current boutique hotel, the guy said, he's not, he says, like, I would never sell his name, his name is on the door of the hotel. He says, I'm not selling this. Well. I'm trying to curious why he wouldn't sell it. And then he mentioned that he has a hotel in Madison that has a similar, you know, he likes his university markets, because they're counter cyclical. There is not, you know, a lot of volatility. And so we started looking at Madison, we were looking at a hotel and in Oxford, Mississippi, where, you know, Ole Miss is at the same time, just, you know, good characteristics, lots of leisure demand, and also the university as an anchor. And literally, I wrote an email, you know, which we still I still have today says, We should do an arbor, and we should do Oxford, and we should create a brand around, you know, college towns. Let's roll. That was it. So we put together a business plan and went after it relentlessly and found out pretty quick that we were definitely filling a void in that whitespace and we could have first mover and so we blitz scaled it and then we build a moat around it. You know that that's what we continue. to do is to keep dredging and growing it and you know, we've really struck a chord and it's become, you know, a verb, if you will, you know, I'm gonna graduate going to graduate. And it's easy, it's simple, but really the focus on you know, going to a space that you're familiar with that, you know, old, but a new experience there, we call it nostalgia, so creating new memories in those spaces, and we're really passionate about it.

David Novak 10:23 

Now, I understand that you create a fictitional character for each of your properties that guides the creative process. For instance, tell me about the main character for graduate national,

Ben Weprin 10:34 

the journey, the sort of customer journey, or the design creative process all starts with a story in the sort of fictional characters you mentioned, and it changes in each property in Nashville. That's a great one because it's very personal to the entire team. And you know, the idea there was a small town, aspirational, you know, country music singer moves to Nashville from a small town in East Tennessee. It comes to the big city, lives on a couch. And so I'll give you the application of each part of the journey in the story. So there's a couch so you go into the lobby of graduate Nashville, there's stadium seats of chairs of couches. So she's sleeping on the couch. She's working at a karaoke bar, we have a karaoke bar called cross-eyed critters, which is an animatronic karaoke bar where you go and sing. And I grew up going to Chucky Cheese. So the same idea. You don't need a birthday party and you go to showbiz, or whatever they call it. And you, you know that big giant animal, we created a band, David, Eric is actually the lead singer, he's a pig. It's pretty funny. Church, yeah, you would love it. And so she's working at that karaoke bar. And it's divey smoky. It's got hardwood floors, and there's velvet paintings of all these country music icons on the wall. And she's there waiting tables. And one night, the lead Karaoke Host calls in sick, and so she has to go up there perform, and she hits it. And she absolutely crushes you super nervous. But she gets discovered, and she signs a record deal. And she then you know, sort of moves to LA. And there's this Dolly Parton song. And I think it was 1984 called, you know, white limousine, the idea that she goes to LA and she sees a white limousine, and she's made it. And so it's called White limousine, but the entire bar is pink. And we have a giant chicken wire sculpture of Dolly Parton, which is, you know, very Instagrammable and fun and interesting. And it's floral and pattern. And it's right kind of on this thin line of you know, tacky and gaudy and elegant, which is kind of like her and our muse. And then she sort of travels, the world becomes the queen of country music, we have a lot of Queens, a country music inspiration, we have Loretta Lynn Dolly, obviously, Dolly Parton, Dottie West, you know, people that were inspired by portraits in the room. And that room then is reflection of all of her travels around the world. He's got a four post bed, it's floral, it has a bunch of Vanderbilt references, like the Honor Code, the squirrels, you know, all the anchor down. But then it's like, she's refined and smart and beautiful and sophisticated. But she's still got that, you know, real country in her. And so you'll see that in the room. And that's the sort of, you know, circular journey. And we have that, you know, in really every single not really, in every single property we just opened in Palo Alto, it was a really spectacular asset we're about to open in Princeton, and these towns are so rich with stories. And we do that even when we're applying it to other brands or other product, you know, we try to, you know, live in the future and create what's missing, and try to tell that narrative and each one,

David Novak 13:36 

you know, you're the CEO, obviously, but it sounds to be that you're almost Well, you're not almost you are you're the chief storyteller, you know, how does storytelling play into other aspects of your leadership?

Ben Weprin 13:51 

It's instrumental in every part of it, when you think about I mean, when you're trying to manifest something, and particularly thinking about when you're starting, you have to be able to tell that story, you have to be able to articulate it, you know, your unbridled passion and interest very clearly, very passionately. And people have to believe that you're going to do it, you know, because I'm investing as you as in you, and your idea. And the, you know, every anybody can sit here and talk about this. But the real hard part is doing it. As you know, that's a long journey from talk to execution. And being able to say, you know, I don't have anything in common with lazy people. I'm going to get this done. I care so much. This is, this is my life's mission in my work, we're going to, you know, we're mission driven, we're going to execute this business plan that doesn't have any cops, right? We're building something that's in the future, you have to be able to believe my story, or you're not going to invest in that being part of that journey. And so the story is, is everything and you think about a songwriter, I mean, the writing of the song, is that comes into life, they manifest that through the chords and the lyrics and the person singing. We do the same thing but in physical space. So we're telling that stuff Auri and you know, hopefully people connect and some people won't, you know, a lot of people think I'm out of my mind, or they think that, you know, this product in this looks like a living room. And I'm like, well, that's great. Because what we're doing is not for everybody, all of those obstacles or opportunities and workflows, that's okay. We want to build something that's differentiated and to be differentiated is actually very difficult. When it's hard to bring it to life and then to, it's not for everyone, that's okay. Because the people that like it will really resonate with us. And those people, the lifetime value of that customer, the brand ambassadorship them taking ownership and sharing it with people. That's the most valuable salespeople, there are for us in the world. That's exactly what we're looking for. We're not for everybody, but for our people, they're gonna say these people get me they understand me, I'm gonna take that journey with them, because I believe in the story.

David Novak 15:50 

Because you're listening to this, I can tell you're the kind of person who wants to learn how to lead well. But there's a lot of companies out there who want to take that desire and charge you $500 or $1,000, or heck, even $20,000, to try and show you how to lead. That's just not right. If you want to be a better leader, I believe you deserve to have access to something that will truly help you. And it shouldn't cost a fortune. So I want you to go to how leaders lead.com and start my leadership class. It's really and truly free. And after you take this class, you're gonna feel more confident in your role. And you'll be on your way to get the big things done with your team. Go check it out at how leaders lead.com.

You know, when I interviewed Jim Nance, who I believe is a mutual friend, you know, for this podcast, he mentioned that no one does his research for him. As he prepares for a broadcast, he views it his responsibility to dig for those nuggets and insights, do you have a similar approach as you're working on a new project? Or what's it look like?

Ben Weprin 17:03 

I do think that the conviction, the confidence is what gives you that ability to execute and getting people to buy in, you don't want a leader that scared going up, you know, into battle, you want someone that is going to take you in there, roll up their sleeves, you know, be on the front line, and grind with you every single step of the way. And I mean, that's what happens to us, right? We've been in the foxhole, we faced, I mean incredible adversity. And so you could choose your heart, you might as well choose something that you really love. And when you love it, you're gonna go every single day and give it everything you got, you know, from from start to finish. And Jim is an incredible example that Jim was born to do what he's done. I mean, his voice, his passion is conviction. You can't make that up. And you can't make this up. either. You either love hospitality and you're an agent for change, or you're just not because it's too hard. It's too hard to do it. And to just to pretend, you know, you pride

David Novak 17:59 

yourself on the ability to rejuvenate places that others pass by? Is this a gut feeling? Or how would you describe your decision making process for what you take on,

Ben Weprin 18:09 

we want to be part of the backdrop of really memorable spaces. And so when you think about where our hotels reside, and what's around them, the hotel has to mirror that and we're not selling rooms, we're selling a fantasy, and we're incorporating the guest into the story. So you know, we're selling a lifestyle and fulfilling a fantasy. And people are part of that we're not the heroes in the journey, we're the support system, we're creating that backdrop where the directors, you can tell when you go to a place, whether it's a hotel or location, they just hit you in the gut. And you may not know why. But there's something so special and so unique. And so you're so emotionally connected to it, you just want to be part of it. And it makes you feel that emotional, visceral, sort of Limbrick wow, you know, I'm just lucky to be here. And we have so much gratitude for those moments and those experiences, and we just want to celebrate them through the space. And we just know, you know, obviously, we've done to your point, the research, the underwriting all of the, you know, evaluation to know that this is a market, and then we know what we can build it to, you know, in terms of what the market supports, and then we just, you know, pour our heart and soul and our passion into what we're doing. You have

David Novak 19:17 

this motto for your team, which is we are all students, which seems fitting for a brand like graduate hotels and what you're doing across the board. Tell me a story of how this shows up in the day to day of your business.

Ben Weprin 19:29 

Well, we are all students is born out of the idea. It was it sort of came to life. We were doing a hotel in Charlottesville, and they have the idea that you're continuing to evolve. It doesn't stop when you leave colleges that you're always a student and we're students of, you know, we're curious because when you stop learning, you die. Right. When you stop evolving, you die. And I think that we are all students is very indicative of that, that you know, the world is malleable if you want to pursue it and grow and evolve and you can didn't change with that. And you never stop learning. And, you know, you take that idea to so many adjacent things in your life, whether it's personal professional, any business, you can't just sit there and be okay with what you're doing. You got to disrupt yourself or somebody else is going to, you know,

David Novak 20:17 

here you are now you're overseas and you're doing destination golf hotels. Tell me about your hotel on the 18th green at St. Andrews, which is so cool. I mean, you just, I saw a video of it. It just fit looks fantastic. How'd it come to be?

Ben Weprin 20:32 

It is so special. You know, it's the birthplace of golf, right? I mean, this is the home of golf. It's 600 years old, old Tom Morris, the old course the sea, you know, the beach where they film chariots of fire. It is like out of a movie, the history, the memories that people have made their, you know, our job was to help, you know, celebrate that and just tell the story. I mean, it was to not mess it up, right because the backdrop is so outrageous. We were buying a hotel in Oxford, UK, where we want to graduate to be, we wanted to be in Oxford, and we wanted to be in Cambridge, the two oldest, most iconic University anchored communities there. And the gentleman Donald MacDonald can't make up his name. And he's an incredible Irishman owned, you know, a portfolio of hotels and he asked us, you know, I didn't want to sell Oxford, but I'd sell the whole thing. And I went to after somebody my office had gone and said it was magnificent went to St. Andrews, and I just lost my mind. I mean, you know, obviously an emotional you can see I just I'm like this is, this is the holy grail of golf, hospitality of golf as a whole. And so we had this incredible hotel that's, you know, 150 years old, and a parking lot next door, literally on I mean, it's on the eighth team. David, it's like, you fall out onto the 18th green, you watch the first tee shot, you see silicon bridge, you see the road hole, I mean, it is it's literally feels made up like it's like a screensaver. And so I go there and I and he takes me to the roof or the the top floor of the existing hotel. And I'm like, it's like when the world goes Wizard of Oz when it goes from black and white to color. I'm just like, oh my gosh, like this can't be And so long story short, we ended up buying Oxford, and St. Andrews and then when we bought St. Andrews, and I've never I've never been or play golf over there anything, David, we understood it had those very same characteristics of graduate where people would come over, they go to different markets, the hotels were lackluster, very, you know, mom and pop and, you know, non, you know, you in the US hotels are like at 515 in terms of branded, non branded, when they're branded, they have great infrastructure, they have, you know, brand qualities and standards over there is the inverse. And so a lot of mom and pop very fragmented. So incredible destinations, hotels need a lot of work, but incredible architecture and good bones. And so then we started to grow the portfolio with people that were are passionate about golf and hospitality. And it's been an incredible brand. And, you know, just the idea of you know, your personal passions and professional pursuits, combining those makes a great product. And so this was a perfect application. And so we've tried to create the most inspiring product and the most inspiring places in the world. Well,

David Novak 23:25 

I tell you, you have definitely done it there, you know, your other properties are sensational over there. So hats off to you. And I've heard you say that we don't look at ourselves as owners, but as stewards. What's an example of the difference between the two?

Ben Weprin 23:40 

I think a steward looks at it as not just an opportunity, but a responsibility. And when you're a steward, it's a long term investment in the community, not just a specific property. And, you know, an owner, you know, just kind of owns, right is there you can do as little as possible. A steward is always polishing their assets, always taking care of the people. When you're looking and building something with real you're very passionate about the product. And you're thinking about in terms of 100 or 200 years, is much different than just being an owner. And we also were on both sides. So we're owner operator of our assets, there's a lot of times there's a disalignment of interest and owner and operator, we're a fully vertically integrated, interdisciplinary firm. Everybody cares. And that's when you're a steward is that you're fully committed to it. It's like your house, a steward owns our home and an owner is more of a renter, they're just they're passing through trying to make a buck. We obviously want to be profitable. That's a big part of it. But I think being passionate about investing in it does lead to that profitability.

David Novak 24:42 

What do you do and how should leaders keep their eye on the on the long long game? Yeah, I think

Ben Weprin 24:48 

you know, great ideas have the power to shift perception and create value where it didn't exist. And when you're doing that, it's not a it's not a daily you know, hotel their daily, right. They're different than a lot of other businesses, right, where we have a daily lease, you got to really be crazy to get into hotels to go hard. That is, when you have an operating business and a daily lease. Now, it's a great inflationary hedge and hotels have all the sudden become in vogue in terms of investing when the markets right now are very unpredictable. Hospitality is still is active, and people are investing in leisure and travel. So those markets continue to grow. But it's very difficult and challenging and ambitious. But if you're committed to it, and like I said before, in COVID, I mean, aren't we went to zero, and we had 2500 employees, we had to stop, we had no choice, right, in order to save them. For the long term, we had to make really short term sacrifices for long term gains. And people were We were scared. I was scared. I don't know how you couldn't be. I mean, this was something unprecedented the world had never experienced before. But they knew that we were committed, right? It wasn't some this wasn't some hobby, right? This is our lives work and our mission. And we're completely committed to changing, you know, hospitality and building this brand. It's part of that's why you know, founder led businesses, a lot of people will only invest in because they know they care. This isn't just, you know, some job or some you know, where you're just leaving, like, this is my life. And these people are the most important part of the business and letting them go. And then the markets just going to zero operating businesses are not scheduled to go to zero. I mean, right? Can you imagine if Taco Bell just stopped? First of all, you have a lot of hungry people out there, but it just stopped. And so we always knew, though, that this wasn't going to be permanent, you know, we knew that it would come back at some point. So we just had to survive in advance, you know, every single day and do what we had to do, and use the opportunity as a, you know, as a pause to sort of look around and say, who do we want to be? And how do we get there. And so we were obviously committed. And then we started growing and building these other platforms during COVID Use it as a time to reset the organization and, you know, build that platform. So then we could take the skyscraper up, as we grew coming out of it.

David Novak 27:04 

You've teamed up with Eric Church to open a bar restaurant and music venue in downtown Nashville. What's the unique story you hope to tell with this project?

Ben Weprin 27:12 

Really, Eric story, you know, Eric's story is a way to inspire other people how Eric has done it, you know, his way and his way only never compromising for integrity, always being about the music and the songs. And then, you know, there was a lot of bars on Broadway. There's a lot of, you know, country music artists who have spaces. But it was Eric's idea. You know, as you know, that tech, you know, you and I connected. You know, Mr. Eric, who's, you know, my best friend came in said, so another group approached him to do a bar, he said, you know, what, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it, you know, with you. I was like, Oh, shit, you know, that's a huge responsibility. And just, you know, the idea of doing it with your friend and telling his story is a huge honor. And so I just want to make sure that we did it right. But the idea that, you know, it's another hockey talk downtown, you know, Eric would never do anything. That is like everybody else, right. I mean, Eric came down there was, you know, playing for tips on a stool and printers alley, at you know, fiddle and steel, writing songs, working at QVC selling knives. I mean, Eric is a grinder, and Eric is, you know, so committed and so passionate about what he's doing. And Eric came down there. And you know, people told him he was out of his mind, but he stayed at it. And he and he was inspired by people like Kris Kristofferson and Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cass and all these other great musicians and songwriters. And he did it the right way. And so our space there is a journey through Eric's career and what we're doing completely different than anybody else. There is a a ticketed seated music venue. That's two stories that the church within the five storey building, and Eric's gonna play there. Other artists are going to play there. And it's really about the songs about the songwriters. Right, which is a fabric and backbone bone of Nashville and Music City as a songwriters. And so having that venue, and then we weren't, we were collaborating with Rodney Scott, who does, you know, whole hog barbecue James Beard award winning chef out of Charleston. He's a magnificent guy. We're doing a rooftop hell of a queue, you know, play on hell of it. And we weren't going to do anything halfway. Right. Eric's never compromised. He's never done anything halfway. And we're all in in this space. There's a dueling Piano Bar. It is magnificent. It's going to open at the end of this year.

David Novak 29:36 

I cannot wait for this and we're gonna be we're gonna get you on there. Hey, dude. Oh, yeah, I can't wait. I will definitely be the first one at that venue. Believe me that is an air tastic and

Ben Weprin 29:49 

he's so committed to it. David, as you know, I mean, you know, he pours his heart and soul every single day. There's so many stories are so many songs. They're so inspiring. Every detail in this space, Eric's resolve, you know, has been instrumental and there's nothing that he doesn't approve or work on. That's the thing, you know, anybody like, Eric, and you know, we've done bars or hotels with other people that are, you know, we're honoring, they're all committed, right? None of them do anything halfway. That's why they're so successful. And he's so emotionally invested in this and it's gonna be really special. There's also a podcast, you know, studio on the quarter of second Broadway location is magnificent. And we're super inspired to get it open.

David Novak 30:32 

Fantastic. And speaking of projects, you know, the Field and Stream brand that you've acquired, and you're gonna have the Field and Stream Lodge, which is 20 hotels in close proximity to national parks, beaches, mountains, ski slopes, you know, tell me about just, you know, real cliff notes, or what you see the opportunity here with that brand.

Ben Weprin 30:52 

Yeah, and that's a, you know, again, that's being a steward in an iconic brand, you know, Field and Stream means so much to so many people. It's been around since 1871. Barry had owned it, back in the day, sold it, and, you know, always kept the rights for the lodging. And Barry was in my office one day, and he saw I have a bunch of bass on my wall. And he was the connection. I said, you know, I love to fish and so forth. So he said, You know, I own Field and Stream, the lodging rights. I go, I mean, we and we had been talking about, you know, partnering on a brand or doing something creative in that space, as well. That's, you know, everything is either an absolute yes or complete absolute no, that was an absolute Yes, tell me where to go and to sign up. Because the idea of taking a lifestyle brand, which is Field and Stream and applying it to limited lifestyle brands and limited select Service hotels don't really mix. But field stream actually connects to that the marketplace is massive. You know, these aren't COVID trends in terms of outdoor recreational travel. I do think as people are so connected to the metaverse, they want to get more connected to the universe. And building a place that is rooted in trust and nostalgia and purpose driven, which is what we do, as we've talked about, in that world, great combination of personal passions and pursuits, and then applying it and we're in, you know, state parks and resort destination travel type places, and our competitive set is, you know, a Hampton Inn, or a red roof fan or a Comfort Inn or, you know, whatever, when you go see, you know, on the side of a highway and you're, you're traveling in Montana, are you gonna stay there, you're gonna stay at Field and Stream and get here, get outside. And the properties are beautiful. They're elegant, they're simple, you know, but they're there. They're speaking to outdoor recreational travel and really inspired by and berries, you know, a world class entrepreneur and Brand Builder. You know, I'm not sure there's anybody better. And partnering with him has been a spectacular experience and great learning, you know, for our entire team.

David Novak 32:54 

And it's no surprise been that Chip and Joanna Gaines announced when they they're renovating a hotel in Waco, they chose you as the as their partner. What are the fixer upper stars been like as business partners for hotel 1928 That's gotta be you gotta pray, you got a pretty exciting fun life.

Ben Weprin 33:16 

There's I didn't know there was another way to do it, David, that was that. That's it. And I didn't even know who you know, Chip. And Joanna, I wasn't familiar with them and went down to Waco was blown away with what they've created their entrepreneurial and creative spirit. And his great building that was built, as you said, in the 1920s, and just had tons of character, tons of charm. And it's really hard. I mean, renovating a historic building, which we've done as much as probably anybody in the country is really challenging really hard. So you want somebody that's done it before. You know, we've made a lot of mistakes, and you know, at doing it, and you know, there's still a lot of variables you can't control, but there's certain things you can based on prior history. And so they wanted a partner, we spoke the same language chip is hilarious. You know, we started talking about impostor syndrome, and all the things we deal with, and then wanting to build something meaningful that reflected the culture of their community. And so the building, it was a Shriners temple, awesome architecture. And I said, Yeah, why not? And they're wonderful ambassadors and partners and sponsors. And I'm very involved Joanna on the design chip on the conceptual both, you know, Chip does a lot of the demo with his hammer. I'm just kidding. I'm not sure. But he's a great you know, sports men and wonderful person, both of them. Magnificent team. There had Doug Mac me at the time, who had stayed in one of our hotels, called and say, Hey, this would be a great fit. And he was right. And so, you know, that's part of the adventurous journey is you just never know what's next. You know, what are you guys gonna do the next five years? I have no idea, David. I have no clue. I know. We're going to try to get better and work hard every single day. And, you know, continue to manifest these ideas. But I would have never guessed we're doing that I would have never guessed I'm on the phone talking to you. You know. And so it's been a great experience with Chip and Joe, that hotel is going to open soon. And it's it's super cool. They're they did a whole show around that process, which I think will be really informative and interesting to people how a hotel sort of comes to life, that hotel special and can't wait to get it open. And

David Novak 35:25 

we'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Ben Weprin in just a moment. As you heard, Ben and I are both big admirers and sportscaster Jim Nance. Now we all know and love Jim's iconic voice, but you may not realize just how much work he puts into every broadcast. In our episode of how leaders lead, Jim talks about the importance of showing up prepared

Jim Nantz 35:49 

is the process that makes you really able to do a game of that stature with that had 50 something million people watching buffalo in Kansas City, the game has been again, regarded by many as arguably the best football game of all time, your week really is nothing but research and reading and talking on the phone to as many people as you can. Behind the scenes, I build these finding boards, and I'm taking notes on a legal pad. And at the end of the week, I transfer from that legal pad over to my spotting board. The really, really sweet stuff, the the things that I want to try to get on the air if we can if the game takes us there, but that is the most direct thing that you can see physically, as far as your research, the rest is up here in the head. You compartmentalize all of these things in your head, and you're ready. Depending on where the game takes you with some unknown guy makes a play a pivotal play in the game, I'm ready to tell his story.

David Novak 36:47 

When you combine talent with hard work, you've got an unbeatable combination. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Jim, Episode 76 here on how leaders lead.

You talk about we're getting better every day. And you never know what's really next. And, you know, you have an internal document with 23 core values that guide you and your team. What was your process for putting that list together? And, and why did you do that for your team?

Ben Weprin 37:22 

So I do that every year 23 was his magic. Today's the 23rd by the way. Because Because of Michael Jordan, and you know, his influence and inspiration on on, you know, so many, you know, Zil millions of people. And so that was the 23 for 23. But we'll call it something do a lot of, you know, reading and podcasting and, you know, ideas that inspire me and, you know, want to help, you know, inspire the rest of the team. So 23 for 23 had a great ring to it. And I guess I'll have 20 for next year. But we've done it every year except the last couple, I think during COVID It was more of a you know, we were talking every single day, and we had everybody on the phone. But the idea that you know, you have fundamental principles that you can always look back to, and everybody, you know, when you're making a decision, or people have a lot of autonomy in our organization, I'll pull it up and look at it now. I mean, every single one of these holds true every single day, small towns, big stories, you know, and we were took, you know, some Michael Jordan, you know, quotes in here limits like fears are often just an illusion. We had a Phil Knight one, let everyone else call your idea crazy. Keep going. Don't stop don't even think about stopping until you get there. And don't give much thought to where there is whatever comes just don't stop. I mean, come on. Right? I mean, it's like what wouldn't fire you up about that more difficult, less competition. And he wants to fall down a flight of stairs, but few can can actually sprint up them.

David Novak 38:52 

You know, when did you have that I was interested in was don't over celebrate achievement. Every accomplishment is just a stepping stone to new challenges. How do you balance recognizing what you've done? And at the same time, putting that relentless dissatisfaction with the status quo?

Ben Weprin 39:12 

Mellody Hobson says, you know, she's pleased but not satisfied. And that's exactly how I feel. I love that mindset is I'm certainly pleased and incredibly grateful. But I also feel like I have a lot to prove a lot of people to be you know, thankful for and a lot to show them we all long way to go. Right? We're still just getting started. Definitely have the second any mindset. And we're, you know, taking those principles, the lessons learned applying them to the next thing and isn't doing to get better and be a student of, you know, my passions is what makes me tick. And I think that's what makes everybody else tick. And that's what gets people on board of this mission driven organization and the culture that we've created. So you can't just sit during rest on your laurels, I mean, that's not how you get to. I mean, how many Taco Bells Are there a lot, a lot, a lot more than there would be. And our idea was never to be the biggest, we just want to be the best at what we do. And that is the idea is, you know, dominate the small niches and to scale to, you know, adjacent markets or create real value. And so you have to be fiercely committed to it. And we are, and the purpose behind everything that we do is to grow and get better and to drive value in each one of our spaces.

David Novak 40:32 

Yeah, but can you wear people out with that relentless push? Yeah. How do you? How do you, how do you how do you motivation with day to day, right?

Ben Weprin 40:40 

Oh, 100%, you know, where people out. And that sort of like self selecting process of getting people that want to be worn out that want to be pushed hard. There's a lot of, you know, recognition at the corporate level, there's a lot of recognition to the property revolution. These are all independent businesses, when you think about it, they're part of something bigger, David, but each hotel, each office building multifamily, everything has a general manager, and it starts at the top. And that person running their organization, given the ability to be creative, recognizing employees, recognizing the technical people that are there for a long period of time, all their rewards. We have a lot of different metrics, obviously, we can measure very easily and giving people a pat on the back. But that's part of the people that join up for this journey. They want to be pushed, they want to grow, they want to evolve where they wouldn't do it. It's too hard.

David Novak 41:29 

I love it. You know, you want people that want to be worn out. I love them. I think that's great. You know, been this has been so much fun. And now I'd like to have a little bit more fun with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this?

Ben Weprin 41:40 

I'm ready for you.

David Novak 41:41 

What's one word others would use to describe you, relentless? The one word that you think best describes you

Ben Weprin 41:48 

passionate?

David Novak 41:50 

If you could be someone besides yourself for a day, who would it be?

Ben Weprin 41:55 

I mean, it's hard not to say I mean, I don't know Michel Jarre. I'm not sure if he can still dunk. I love to be a musician for a day. I mean, to play a concert, get on stage and see what that would be like in front of all I can't sing. I can't do any of that action. So it'd be fun to be Eric. Eric for one day.

David Novak 42:15 

Being such a big time basketball fan. What will you always remember about the first time you met Michael Jordan?

Ben Weprin 42:23 

Oh my god. I mean, the first time I met him, I was at his camp. I was 13 years old. I took the money for my my Bar Mitzvah and went to Michael Jordan flight camp in Elmhurst. I'm from Dayton, Ohio, and took a picture with him, which I still have. And it's incredible, which I'll I'll send it to you after this camp. But no, actually, this last summer when he was here, Eric and I, you know, got to spend a bunch of time with him. And whoever said, you know, don't meet your heroes never met him. He is just such an incredible person and curious, and I mean, we got right into it right away. 80s NBA college basketball, I mean, he's such a encyclopedia. He's like, Nance, he knows everything. And ask him questions about you know, who was the hardest guard? I mean, he gave answers to things I just never would. He was telling me like, you know, the most underrated player is Kevin McHale hardest guy to guard. I'm like, wow, you know, just like stuff like that. And he's just such an inspirational fan to think about how great he is not just basketball, brand, business culture. I mean, he's such an icon and so inspirational for so many people. It's, there's nobody better.

David Novak 43:28 

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Ben Weprin 43:31 

Traffic. I hate to say it is literally debilitating. I was in Chicago on Sunday. And I had to sit in traffic for an hour and 20 minutes, and I was literally hitting my head against the wall you can imagine right? I feel like I'm in a straitjacket. Traffic is the worst.

David Novak 43:45 

What's the first word or phrase that comes to your mind when you hear the song? Rocky Top? Nostalgia. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would we hear

Ben Weprin 43:56 

the same thing over and over? And my kids are like, do you know there's other artists besides Eric Church and Morgan Wallen and they won't listen to podcasts and I love podcast founders is my favorite I listened to all of them yours how? But like Eric and Morgan and then they have a song together man made a bar and they literally I mean it's like you know it's a manifestation of everybody making a bar together or just the idea but I think those are the two most talented artists in the world and are obviously you know, friends and so very inspired by them and their their careers.

David Novak 44:31 

Alright, last question in the lightning round finish this sentence for me hospitality is

Ben Weprin 44:37 

hospitality is smiling. Hospitality is welcoming people into your home hospitality is taking care of people as you would like to be taken care of and hospitality and anticipating guests needs and hospitality is

David Novak 44:49 

humanity. That's the last question in the lightning round. But just going back to what you just said, How does your view of hospitality impact how you lead?

Ben Weprin 44:59 

I think you know, you Want to be human? I think you want to be empathetic. I think you want to, you know, anticipate the other side of the table in the equation and try to put yourself in their seat, you know, what are they thinking? How would they like to be treated? You know, how can you anticipate where you're going? How can you look around corners? You know, hospitality is not just hotels, hospitality is applied to every single asset class, every single business in the entire world, whether you're in restaurants, retail, in if you work at, you know, h&r Block hospitality is integral to the success of your business. And there's some great books on that, that you can read, and just reinforcing that shared beliefs and really engaging with people and bringing people together for you know, shared experiences in a shared mindset. That's, that's hospitality to me.

David Novak 45:41 

Last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders, if you had to just pick one,

Ben Weprin 45:48 

I think there's no shortcuts, you have to do the work. No matter what it is, you have to do the work people respect that you have to build a really solid foundation before you can go up, you have to commit yourself. And it culture drives commerce, every single day. And that culture is the most important thing of your business. And that will help you build the base and to take vertical and to do it passionately to always invest in it ever invest in yourself personally. And that'll then you know, your results professionally. And, you know, just underdogs are always hungry, they always want to eat, so stay hungry.

David Novak 46:26 

You know, Ben, it's always fun for me to really interview and learn from from great leaders, and there's no doubt in my mind, you have that it factor, okay, that was going to carry you forever. You're a superstar in your industry and your desire to get better and better and win more championships is going to keep you moving to higher and higher heights. So I just want to thank you so much for having the passion you have, and having the insights you have and sharing with our with our listeners.

Ben Weprin 46:55 

Thanks for having me, I really appreciate all your support and leadership and friendship, it means a lot.

David Novak 47:09 

The first time I ever had a chance to get to know Ben, and we sat down and chatted, it was so easy to hear why he's been so successful. He's a really thoughtful guy with a tremendous amount of drive and passion and commitment to what he's doing. But it never gets in the way of what really matters. And for Ben, it's all about those human moments of hospitality and connection. And you know, as well as I do, leadership is all about connection. If you want to connect better with your team, or build a brand that people feel connected to, you've got to embrace the power of storytelling, just like Ben has, is such an effective way to draw people into a big idea. So this week, I want you to ask yourself two questions. Where do you want to strengthen a connection with your team or your customers? And then how could you tap into the power of storytelling to do it? When you strengthen your skills as a storyteller, you strengthen your leadership skills, and it can impact your entire business. And I hope today's conversation inspires you to do just that. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders use storytelling to create connection. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Kevin Warsh, the former member of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and one of our country's leading financial experts.

Speaker 1 48:31 

The key to being a better leader is to go find better leaders and learn from them. We only come to know who we are, we only come to reveal ourselves by interacting with other people. I guess there are people that are probably born great leaders. But for most of us, we end up being around really good leaders and really bad leaders. And it's incumbent upon us to try to pick up those good skills and to avoid the bad skills. So be sure to come back next week to hear our entire conversation.

David Novak 49:02 

Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be