Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, this Saturday, we all get to experience the most exciting two minutes in sports. This right is time for the Kentucky Derby right here in my hometown of Louisville. And that gives me the perfect opportunity to sit down with my good friend Bill Ferris. Bill is a giant in the world of horse racing. He's the founder of Woodford Racing and the general manager of Lane Zen Farm, which I got to tell you is one of the world's premier thoroughbred breeding farms and an absolutely magnificent place to see. Now this conversation is going to give you a rare close up look into the world of horse racing, but it's also going to give you a close up look at a really special leader. See for all his success in world class reputation, Bill is an incredibly humble guy with the quiet spirit of a leader who just knows how to treat people and knows his business. He loves his work. He loves his horses. He calls them his athletes. He loves to see the people he hires succeed and he's trying to leave his industry better than he found it. It's the kind of quiet, outstanding leadership that we don't always see elevated or showcased, but that could teach us so much about what it really looks like to lead well. Plus, he gives us his pick for the horse he's backing this weekend and you do not want to miss that. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Bill Ferris . Just a couple of days, we're going to have the 2023 Kentucky Derby. What's a Kentucky Derby story you just love to tell? Well, probably my favorite all time Derby story was when Orb went on it, which was owned by the Fipps family. They're kind of friends of both of ours and the Derby is one of those events that is bigger than you can possibly explain to somebody that's not in the industry. Everybody knows the Derby like they know the Indy 500 or any other big event like that, but to actually be part of it and have a horse win is just overwhelming. And I think that probably is my favorite Derby moment, but there've been quite a few over the years. Give me back to 1999 and describe what it was like seeing your horse charismatic pull ahead in the final stretch and win. Yeah, that was a special year for sure. Turns out the farm bred the winners of the first two Triple Crown races in charismatic and the third Triple Crown race in Lemon Drop Kids. So I think we're the first to ever have different horses comprise the entire Triple Crown, but the Derby, again, the first leg of it was an incredible feeling and we had some great friends and partners, a guy named Ben Roach who co-bred charismatic and it was just a great thrill to share that with him. People make their bets in kind of strange ways. I've been to over 20 Derby's myself living in Louisville and young brand sponsored the Kentucky Derby for a long time. I remember early in the morning telling everybody I was going to bet on charismatic. I was going to bet on that horse because I always loved that name. I always wanted our brands to be charismatic. You know, a Rouse popular loyalty and enthusiasm. That's the definition. You know, so I'm definitely going to the Derby. I'm going to bet on charismatic, but by the time you have a few drinks and listen to everybody else's, I forgot to bet on charismatic and damn did that horse didn't win. Yeah, that's usually the way it happens to me too. I get caught up in whatever's going on the day and forget to bet, but I did bet on Orb. That was one of the biggest tickets I ever cashed. But by the time the race came around, it's lucky I bet early in the day because I would have missed the opportunity later. I told you how much I love charismatic as a name. What goes into a horse getting its name? It's quite a process actually. The Jockey Club has a database of names and previously used names and you're not allowed to reuse a name until the horse has passed away for over 10 years. So there's quite a huge number of names taken and it's hard to come up with a new one for every horse that you have to name. But it's up to the individual owner to name the horse, but they have to clear it through the Jockey Club. And there's certainly some names like Secretariat that can never be used again, even though the name hasn't been used recently. That doesn't mean you could still get it. You're the founder of Woodford Racing, which you started in 2005. Tell us about it. Well we started Woodford Racing really to give people that aren't in the industry a chance to experience horse ownership on a smaller basis, a smaller entry point where they could see the costs of participation but not bear the full brunt of it. And I had no idea when I started it that it would go this long and we'd have this much fun, but we've got a great group of people and quite a few of which come back every year. Really been gratifying. A mutual friend of ours has teamed up with you, Ken Langone. And he said, he had a blast talking to you and learning about the business. And he said, after he learned about it and just your knowledge of the business, he said, I had to go in. I had to get after this. So your depth of knowledge has definitely paid off in that case. And I'm sure it's fun doing business with Ken. Well, if you can impress Ken Langone with knowledge, you've really done something. But we had a great conversation. I had no idea that he was going to respond that way. But it just so happens that over the weekend, a horse that we own together won the prep for the preakness called the Fraterico Tessio steaks at Laurel and now might be headed to the preakness. I just knew with Ken, he has the mightest touch. And if he were involved in one, it would probably end up being a good one. So we're very excited about this horse. His name is Perform. That's perfect for Ken Langone. That's what he demands from all of his businesses. Exactly. I know this is complicated, but walk me through the economics of owning a horse . You know, there's obviously the purchase price and that's the biggest cost you have generally and at least in the horses that we look at. You've got the purchase price and then you've of course got the training fees and veterinary fees and all of that. So the trainers we use and the horses we have, it's generally about 40 to 50, 000 a year per horse to keep them in training. So it's not insignificant. That's where I think the partnership model has a lot of merit. If someone wanted a horse that had a shot at winning the Derby, how would you recommend them going about doing it? Well, there's lots of ways. It all depends on the individual and their appetite for risk, but you can certainly do it on your own, which a lot of people do. Hopefully find a good advisor to help you pick out the horse and the odds are long, but it's so exciting if it works out and you could go the individual route or you can go a partnership route. What qualities do you look for in a horse? Well, we look at pedigree. Oftentimes, you can tell by just looking at a horse at pedigree and who the s ire is, who the mare is, what sort of potential they would have to go a distance like the Derby. If you're specifically looking for a Derby horse, you can tell if they're bred to be sprinters or routers, we call them, two turn horses. And so that's the first thing then actually looking at the individual and checking out this confirmation and all of that is really the biggest part. Then of course, they have to get past the vet and that's another thing altogether, whether the horse has good wind and all his X-rays and everything are clean. I've been told that if you want to get in the horse business, you need to show up with the money that you're prepared to lose. Is there any merit to that? No, there's definitely merit to that. I think it's overstated because there's like anything, there's intelligent ways to go about it and there's, if you buy a four or five Colts on your own and take it on that way. Yeah, there's nothing but downside if you don't get a really good horse because a Colt that can't run really doesn't have much value, but a Philly that can't run if she's well bred certainly has value as a broodmare. You bring multiple owners together and buy a horse and how do you get everyone aligned around the decisions that make for smart business, if you will? We think we know those answers ourselves, but we try to involve that anybody who wants to be involved in those decisions. One of the things I really set out to do in the beginning to communicate better than other partnerships, I really felt like if you're putting up your money, you need to get as much information as we can possibly provide and really feel like you're the owner of the horse, not just a owner of the horse. My partner Ben Haggon and I got together and he's really in charge of keeping everybody well informed. I think that makes a huge difference in their overall experience and the likelihood that they'll come back. Flightline is a huge winner for you. Tell us about him and where he's at in the lifecycle and how you think about what's next. It's hard to put in a words what Flightline, his talent is, he was being compared constantly to Secretariat. He really was just an incredible, incredible athlete. Unfortunately, most of the casual fans of racing really didn't know much about him because he didn't go through the Triple Crown Trail. He had a few injuries in his earlier days that kept him from the races. He didn't hit the radar screen for a lot of people, but he retired, undefeated, six wins out of six races and no one ever got within six lengths of him. It's just an amazing horse. When he got to the Breeders Cup Classic and won that by eight lengths, it really cemented his place in history. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Bill Ferris in just a moment. As you heard us talk about, one of Bill's horse ownership partners is Ken Lang one, the co-founder of Home Depot and one of my closest friends. Now, of course, you couldn't imagine a better name than this. The horse that Ken gets involved in is named Perform because boy, that's just what Ken's businesses have always done. And hey, if you want to go deeper into what makes Ken tick, you'll love his episode on How Leaders Lead. He talks about the importance of always being there for people. When we all recognize we need each other and we can do more for each other by needing each other and doing things for each other. When we recognize all of that, David, that's what it's all about. Unless we're so arrogant that we don't believe we can learn from anybody else, if you leave your eyes and your mind open to watching other people, you'd be amazed at how much better a person you'll be by emulating that maybe everything but some of the things they do. Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Ken, episode 91 here on How Leaders Lead. Give us a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you are today. I think watching my father for many years, obviously growing up and seeing how he ran his business and his life was really the thing that created my style, I guess, as much as anything. He was a kind of guy who hired good people and let them do their job and certainly stayed on top of things and I think that's really what I do as well. I think having a good team and letting them succeed and letting them feel the success of what they're doing really fuels how they perform. Your father founded Lane's End, which is the business that you run now. Was it always the plan for you to go into the family business? Are you always going to get into the horse business? No, I can't say that my father really even encouraged me that much. I got out of college and went down to Texas and worked for a few years and then went to Washington DC for a year or two actually and then I knew that I wanted to be in the horse business and I kind of had to force my way back in. What was it that made you know this is what you wanted to do? From an early age, I fell in love with that. My dad had race horses when we were growing up in Texas but it wasn't until I visited Kentucky that I really fell in love with the breeding side of it and I mean racing as well. They're both so much fun, very different but so much fun and we visited a farm in Louisville, actually Warner Jones's farm and that was it. I don't know if you've ever been there but Hermitage is a beautiful place and the barns are all lined up and really it's set up in a very unique way and growing up in Houston. I thought Louisville was the center of the horse industry. Not Lexington and when mom and dad came up here and we're looking at farms in the late 70s, they were looking around Lexington and I was like, "Why do you want to be in Lexington?" That's not where the horse industry is. Sure enough it is centered more here. What makes Kentucky such a great place to breed and raise throwbruds? It obviously centered early on because of the limestone and the soil, the water we have here which also seems to work well with bourbon. The major centers around the world have limestone and the soil in excess of amount of limestone and whether it's here or in California or in France or in England and New Market, there are areas that have that element to the soil. I think that's how it started but then once you get the key stallions, the mayors go to where the stallions are and Kentucky certainly has critical mass when it comes to the top stallions in the world. Absolutely. Give us a snapshot of lanes in and the business model that you have. You basically provide services end to end, isn't that right? We do. We're full service farm. We have 21 stallions that stand here. We have over 300 brood mares on the farm. The mayors obviously go to the stallions, not just our stallions. They go to stallions all over Central Kentucky. Then we raise the foals. Generally, most of our clients are commercial breeders so they take their year lings to the sales. As do we take most of our horses to the sales which happen in September of their yearling year. We raise but we also prepare horses for the sales and obviously the stallion side is a big part of it. Those are the key areas, the stallion side, the brood mare breeding side and of course the sales. Is the tour business very big for you or is that just something you have around the Derby time? No, it's year round. My oldest daughter Andy does all our tours and it's growing. It's very similar to the bourbon tour. It's really taken off. I think every year it gets bigger and bigger. It wasn't that long ago that none of us even opened our doors to outside tourists but it's really been a great thing. Our guests that we had for the Kentucky Derby. You guys always did a great job at Lane Sands. We'd see the whole stud process. It was just a phenomenal event and it's something that people still talk about every time I get together with them. They just love the whole experience. Everybody's so stunned at how the accommodations for your horses, they're nicer than a five star four seasons hotel. Well, they are pretty nice but it's funny how often I run into people that came to Lane Sands because of you. It happens in the most random places. They say, "Yeah, I was in town with young brands with David Novak and we came to Lane Sands and I'm always surprised." Well, it was a place to go. Let me tell you. Tell us about your key staff and the roles that they play. How are you structured in your business? We have obviously a farm manager that I'm in daily contact with is a crucial part of the whole thing but then we also have a yearly manager, a broodmare manager, and a stallion manager. We really have some very, very key people there and then under them, assistant managers that all of which are vital to the success of our business. We're in the middle of folding season now and it's around the clock. We had three foals last night and three foals the night before, born throughout the night and it's a very tough time on the staff because they're putting in around the clock time. That's so important because it's not always an open and shed case when America goes to folding. You don't just say, "Hey, it's going to happen between eight and nine." That's right. You've got to be on call there. You mentioned your leadership style a little bit earlier. In some organization, the leader has an ore in the water and in others, their war hands off. Describe your leadership style, Bill. I think it really is, as I said before, I try to hire great people and our industry is pretty small. We try to encourage young people to move on from us to other farms where they can move up the ladder in terms of their role. Because we have a relatively small number of managerial type positions, it's important that they do move on. I think we've had a lot of success over the years training people to move up in the business. That success encourages young people to come to us, I think. That's a very enlightened you because a lot of times people want to protect everybody and not get them to leave and focus on the continuity. That's a real selling point for you to get top talent. It really is, but I'm not telling you, it's always easy to let somebody go. We've had some great people, but they're now running other operations, which is fun to see. It keeps its connections and the other operations that help us do things collaboratively. You're one of the best in the world at maximizing the horses after racing career. Every year you release the advertised stud fees for your stallion roster. How can you through the process for how that list comes about and how the rates get established? It's like anything else. It's supply and demand. A lot of times it's based on how well they were received the year before, but not only that, it's how well their offspring have done in the previous year. If the first year horse-like flight line, it's all based on the hype and how successful a horse like him was as a race horse. He's starting at a higher stud fee than any horse we've ever stood, 200,000, which for an unproven stallion is a very high number. We've got a full book to him, and we don't feel like we overshot with that stud fee. Other horses, we have them all the way down to 10,000. It just depends on what the demand is out there for the horse and how their offspring are doing. The flight line is fully booked. What does that mean? In a lot of cases, it's a farm policy what a full book is, because when Secretary retired, 50 Mayors was a large book for a stallion. Now it's 250 Mayors. It's really changed a lot. To a fault, I think some farms breed too many Mayors, but we try to keep them at around 150 Mayors. We go a little more than that sometimes, a little less than that, a lot of times when the demand's not there. We look at 150 to 160 as being a very full book. How long does a horse like that stand for stud? They can stand sometimes till they're 25 or even beyond. It just depends on the horse and how long their libido stays up and how long their fertility stays intact. What's the revenue you would anticipate for a flight line? How does that compare in relationship to what the initial investment would be? The initial investment in his case would be back when we bought into him as a yearling. He was a million dollar yearling, which is a pretty high price for a yearling cult. His revenue, if you were to extrapolate out from 200,000, he'll go to 150 May ors. About 120 of those will actually have live foals. Those are the only ones that actually pay this stud fee. It's 120 times 200,000. He's going to have a pretty good year. That's good. That's a good year. I would say so. When you look at competition, Bill, how do you look at it? Broadly speaking, how do you look at your competitors? Our competitors run the gamut, really. We're really competitive mainly in the stallion market. The yearling sales, the mayor sales, and the racing are all separate. I look at our stallion businesses being the most competitive. There are some big competitors out there. We're all going after the elite cults that are racing in a given year. It's quite competitive. There are those that go out and buy an entire horse themselves. Then there are farms like ours where we syndicate the stallions when we buy them. We bring in other investors to take on the risk with us and also share the breeding success with us. It's very competitive. It's a fun business. It's very exciting when you get a horse like Flightline will be in three years when his first babies are starting to run. That's where you really find out if he's going to be a great stallion or not. One thing Bill talks about in this episode is how important is to develop the people you lead and that it's a leader's job to prepare people to move up even if that means they leave the organization to take on a new role. Developing your people is absolutely critical to your successes and organization and it's something I'm passionate about at how leaders lead. It's why I release my most recent leadership development course called Taking People With You. It's a step-by-step process for how to align a team around a goal and get big things done together. It's completely free and I know once you implement what you learn, you'll develop a healthier work culture and your team will see the growth and success you're capable of. Not only that, your people will feel valued because you've shown them that you truly care about seeing them grow. You can get access to this course for free at howleaderslead.com. I know you're extremely close with your father and he was the ambassador I believe for the United States and the UK and went off to do that and I'm sure you were running the show when he was gone. What was that like and how did you navigate it when he came back? He's got a full-time as ambassador. You've been running the old show as a leader. How did you navigate that time? It was a little tricky to be honest. It was kind of good in a way that he stepped away for a little while and that job was so all encompassing that he really didn't have the ability to be his normal controlling self. It was good for us to have that time apart so to speak. When he came back, they shifted into being Floridians a little more of the time than they were before. The transition was pretty smooth. It gave you the space that you needed basically. Yes, exactly. You've been in this business as a family and as a person, you know, for decades now, how do you stay relevant for the years to come and how do you motivate yourself as a leader to take the business to the next level? Well, the exciting thing for me now, dude, is my kids are starting to get involved and that really gives it a whole different perspective. Our oldest daughter is back doing tours and hospitality for us and my oldest son, Will, is getting into the business and is actually down in Florida right now, scouting two-year-old market. It makes it so much more fun. Timing's pretty good actually because you get to a certain age and you want to play a little more golf and maybe, you know, concentrate on the areas that are more enjoyable personally. So they give you the opportunity to do that. And, you know, a farm like this, it's a family farm. If they don't come along, you know, it no longer is a family farm. And if they go off and do other things, you know, we certainly don't pressure them to come back, but we secretly hope they will. You know, we talked about flight line and secretariat, these great successes you had, but I know no one bats a thousand. I mean, you know, what would you consider to be one of your biggest flops or failures? I hate the word failure. And what did you learn from it? Well, I think in this business, you have them every day because if you win at 20%, you're going into the Hall of Fame. So it's a game that you lose way more than you win. Not only does it keep you humble, but it definitely, I know you don't like the word failure, but there's too many failures to mention. I mean, there really are. And I think when you look at it on a horse-by-horse basis, it can be pretty discouraging because, you know, that's where the, again, the partnership model comes into play for people because if it doesn't work out, you've quantified your downside. You're willing to put up X amount and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But if it does, you get to see how, you know, what the odds really are, they're formidable, even when you have all the advantages of, you know, people that are trying to help out. The late Queen Elizabeth had this passion for horse racing and traveled to Kentucky on multiple occasions. And I understand that every time she came, she stayed at your farm. What's one of your favorite memories with the Queen? I think one of the, one of my favorite memories was Prince Philip was here also . This was one of their later visits. So we certainly were, we're very familiar with them, but we were having a barbecue out in back Obama dad's house and I came inside to get something and Prince Philip was sitting on the floor with our youngest child at the time, literally just playing with the child and I can't remember what one it was. I'm embarrassed to say, but, but I thought it was just so real and so natural that, you know, he was, he was having fun doing something as simple as that. Well, the Queen was very knowledgeable about your business as I understand it. You know, what was she like as a business woman and did you have any business interactions with her? What was she like when she was really in the work mode? Yeah, she was very, very serious about the horse business and really it was almost a little bit intimidating because when you sat down with her, she was going to grill you for, for a lot of information and you better have answers for it. So, so it was, it was fascinating. I mean, she really, really was serious about it. I think she read the racing post every day over there over in England and she recognized many years ago that at that time, the better stallions were over here and she sent mayors over here to breed to those stallions and, you know, subsequently they're now the sort of balance of power, at least for turf racing, has shifted back to Europe. She recognized back then that it was in her best interest to breed some mayors over here. Bill, this has been so much fun and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you up for this? I'll give you my best shot. Okay. What's one word you'd use to describe a thoroughbred? Beautiful. What's the thing you love most about horse racing? Just being with the horses. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why? Well, the President of the United States would be a fun thing to be for a day. It doesn't really have much comparison in our business, but I did get to work in Washington for a few years and see the person sitting in that chair and it was pretty phenomenal and looks like a lot of fun. I'm going to come back to that before we close. What's your biggest pet beef? Mean people. What's the number of Kentucky Derby's you've been to? Unknown, but I would say about 35. Your 2023 Derby pick. And listen to this one. Your 10. Okay. What's one of your daily rituals? Something you never miss. Daily drive around the farm. That's one thing. Right now I daily drive to school in the morning with our youngest child, but that's not every day. If I were to turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Country music. You know, that's the end of the lightning round, but curiously early in your career, you just mentioned it. I understand you served as the personal aide to President George H.W. Bush. What'd you learn about leadership from 41? So many things. He was one of those guys that never raised his voice. You know, just the quiet confidence of somebody that had, you know, been in so many tough situations and handled them with grace and with humility. Just an amazing person. What's the biggest challenge facing the industry today and how are you trying to address it? Well, I think one of the biggest challenges we face is a lot of the animal rights organizations that don't see the day-to-day care and attention that our horses get. They only see animals being handled and, you know, they're against any kind of manipulation of animals. So I think that's one of the biggest things we face is trying to convince them and others that we take care of our athletes after they're retired, which is a huge thing, and also that we're constantly trying to improve the safety of the sport and the safety for the horses. You know, that's obvious to anybody who's really around the industry. And the industry has had a little bit of, you know, it's been tarnished a little bit with the whole drug enhancement issues, performance enhancements. You know, where do you think you stand with that today? Well, it's a very timely question because we've achieved something that I never thought we'd be able to achieve, which was past national legislation to regulate the horse industry on a national basis instead of a state-by-state basis. And that's been the problem in the past that we've done things differently in every state. Now we have a national standard that's much higher and really has already shown tremendous success in raising the safety level for the athletes. And so all the testing will now be done nationally with national standards and with testing and really investigative approach to regulation. So that, you know, it's very hard to catch cheaters that are using drugs because the drugs are constantly changing and they're staying ahead of the regulation. But if you do it on an investigative basis and you follow the trail, that's really where we've had the most success in catching people. As a leader in the industry, which I know you definitely are, what did you do to get this national regulation? I mean, versus the local. That had to take a lot of hard work. Well, we had a tremendous effort that went into it. And when it came down to it, as you know, sometimes it takes a little luck in having the right person in the right place. And Senator McConnell, being a Kentucky and an understanding, our issues really played a vital role in getting it over the line. When you look forward, what do you see as your unfinished business? I think it's a constantly evolving thing and you just want to leave the industry in a better place than you found it in. And that's really the driving force for me. I think the Breeders' Cup just continues to get better and better. The Derby keeps getting bigger and bigger. Unlike a lot of sports, our big days are very, very popular. We're not having trouble putting fans in the stand, so to speak. The Breeders' Cup is sold out every year. The Derby is sold out every year. Royal Ascot is sold out every year. So we're doing some things right, but we can't stop. We've got a lot of things to work against and to try to make the sport better. How much change is there in the sport? I mean, if you're going to just say, how much change have you had in the last five years, for example? We've almost cut the breakdown rate in half, which is something I never thought we'd see. I really thought that it's a small percentage of horses that get hurt, but it's a percentage. And I never thought we'd really make meaningful inroads in that area. And we really have. We've cut it in half with safer racing surfaces and really better policing of the athletes. We have video monitoring it at some tracks at almost every moment of horses out of the stall. So it's really made a big difference and will continue to get better. I love how you call them athletes because I don't think there's a more majestic athlete than a thoroughbred. I mean, that's truly what they are, right? Oh, it is. To watch them train in the morning and they are highly skilled athletes for sure. And it's one of the fun things, you know, in any sport to be able to watch athletes perform and we're awfully lucky to be able to do it on a daily basis. Well, I'm going to get to do it at the dawn and the downs. I always go there and down there at the family at Churchill Downs and I want to thank you so much, Bill, for taking the time for this podcast. Can I have one last question I want to ask you. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader ? You know, getting the right people in the right positions is so important and giving them the ability to grow in that position. And you know, when necessary, move on to another organization that where they can move up. It was very tough for you to get that national standard for Thorbratz. And let me tell you something. It was very tough to get Bill to do this podcast. I make it because Bill, and I say this with the highest amount of respect for you, you know, you're extremely accomplished and very humble. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on this podcast. And, you know, I think it's very interesting and it's very timely and you were terrific. So I appreciate it. Well, thanks so much, David. Thanks for making me do it. You know, sometimes stereotypical great leadership looks like taking the spotlight and commanding a room. But I got to tell you, just as often, great leadership looks like driving around your horse farm as the sun comes up. There's a quiet strength and humility in the way Bill leads. And I just love that about him. I also love how Bill talks about trying to improve his industry so it's better than he found it because that's exactly what he's doing. Bill has poured himself into the world of horse racing, making it safer and better and ultimately more successful and popular. Now that's a big takeaway for every leader, regardless of what industry you're in. It's so important to make strong relationships in your field, to develop and pour into the talent around you, and to find ways to solve issues that could tarnish your industry as a whole and make your industry better in everything that it does. So this week, I want you to think about someone you've seen impact your industry for the better. Consider what they've done specifically. See what lessons you might be able to apply. And hey, while you're at it, why not shoot them a quick email just to make sure they know how much you appreciate what they've done. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders grow, love and invest in their industry. Coming up next on How Leaders Lead is Bonnie Hill, the co-founder of a brand marketing company called Icon Blue who has three decades of experience serving on Fortune 500 boards including my company, Young Brands. I have a term, David, that I share with all of those I coach and it is always leave people whole. So it means that you can disagree with people. You can have differences of opinion, but you want to make certain that when you leave the conversation, the person doesn't feel diminished in any way, that they feel that they've been treated with respect and that you have respectfully disagreed with them. And then you work on trying to come together in some way where you can work together. So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO]